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2023/06/17 11:03:38
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
The Inquisitorial henchmen points cost has different values for different models being added to it. Why could this not have been done across the board, and why did GW allow this one oddity to escape scrutiny?
2023/06/17 11:19:00
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Hoffa76 wrote: So, anyone else thinking about canceling their Leviathan pre order?
Nah.
While edition isn't perfect by any means no edition ever is and as l don't pretend it's some competitive game not much changes anyway.
As is my armies changes very little. When focus is cool models and not spamming army is pretty stable over editions.
Yeah the only effect of cancelling my order would be that the 3rd-party store then sells that stock to someone else at a lower discount, probably within minutes. There's no world in which mountains of Leviathan boxes get returned to GW or affect the rules decisions in any way.
2023/06/17 11:23:19
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Hoffa76 wrote: So, anyone else thinking about canceling their Leviathan pre order?
Nope.
10th has some big changes. Some I’m happy with. Others less so. Just like every edition change in the history of 40k. Will everything get shaken up? New meta, new normal? Yes. Am I grumbling about parts of my collection being irrelevant? More so then with prior editions. Will I keep playing? Absolutely.
Post hoc reasoning and sunk cost fallacy, same as it ever was indeed.
There is some sunk cost. I have an extensive collection of 40k on the shelf, acquired over the years. It also lets me weather these changes. I’ve also been magnetizing major stuff for about a decade now, which helps.
I played 9th exclusively with crusade games, using PL. Didn’t bother me. My first game I fielded my classic ML/F, basic boltgun sarge 1st squad of RTB01 marines that have been serving the Emperor for a long time now. After that game I spent the RP to rearm and reequip them to full melta, c-melta sarge with a powerfist. Do I feel bad that their role of minimal squad to hold objectives while more expensive units did the killing was made obsolete? Yes. But the game has moved on. I still play with the old guys from time to time, but newer units get more of the spotlight. Which is nothing new.
I still like the core way 40k plays. I still like the lore, universe, models, and even the rules. Not every aspect of all of them, but enough to keep me around.
The intrusion and escalation of NMNR bothers me. It’s taking real world issues and reflecting them into the universe where they don’t belong. The fact that it’s spread from wargear to unit size is one of my biggest gripes with 10th so far. For example, IMHO marines should be in squads of 5 or 10. That’s how The Codex organizes marines. I had picked up a box of BGVs to convert one into a captain and add the other 2 to the 3 from the indominus box to bring them up to the “correct” size. Going to have to re-jigger things now.
I’m not going to White Knight everything GW does. They screw up. Often. I’m also not going to drink the hateorade and rage quit. Things change with editions, as they do. I’ll shift how I build and play to match. Parts of it I’ll grumble about, and parts I’ll enjoy. But I’ll try not to let the bad parts overshadow the fun I’m having. Nothing is perfect, certainly not 40k. But for me, the silver linings outshine the clouds. So I keep playing.
Hoffa76 wrote: So, anyone else thinking about canceling their Leviathan pre order?
did not pre-order in the first place as I don't blindly buy into anything GW releases
if this means that I don't get it because it sold out, well in most cases it turns out to be not worth it in the first place
even with cursed city it was that way and I can still get it from a store, just not worth if for the mediocre game it is
same now here, Leviathan is still available in some places, yet no reason for me to buy it or anything for 40k until I see the review of the first Codex books and than I am gonna wait for the factions I play and consider buying again (but chances are low)
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/06/17 11:34:24
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Hoffa76 wrote: So, anyone else thinking about canceling their Leviathan pre order?
Nope.
10th has some big changes. Some I’m happy with. Others less so. Just like every edition change in the history of 40k. Will everything get shaken up? New meta, new normal? Yes. Am I grumbling about parts of my collection being irrelevant? More so then with prior editions. Will I keep playing? Absolutely.
Post hoc reasoning and sunk cost fallacy, same as it ever was indeed.
Huh?
How is that post hoc faulty reasoning (or any reasoning at all, for that matter)?
Nevelon is just describing the situation they’re in, and they’re not wrong. They are not giving their reasons why they keep playing. (Maybe they still enjoy the game). There are no sunk costs if you still like your miniatures, and enjoy using them.
And why shouldn’t they keep playing if they want to? Most people here will.
2023/06/17 11:51:34
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Souleater wrote: What is NMNR, please? I tried Google and came up with something to do with magnetic resonance imaging.
No Model, No Rules.
GW’s recent trend of clipping the options off of unit entries until the only thing you can legally put on the table in a list is the what comes in the box.
kodos wrote: yet we have Dastacards for models that don't exist, can be easily spotted as they show no model on the card
It’s not a consistent policy, just a worrying trend.
Some of those placeholder pictures are just because GW doesn’t have a unit painted up for the studio army with that option. Like vanguard vets on foot.
His Master's Voice wrote: If I ignore the cynic in me, I can see some merit in what GW is trying to do. A lot of the issues with 40k stem from its Rogue Trader era roots, that no longer connect well to the trunk of a game played on a very different scale. Tightening unit size and wargear options can, in theory, deal with or eliminate a number of old issues, like 1% options, MSU spam, entry bloat or time wasted on resolving 4 different weapon profiles per unit. There should be a sweet spot for 40k somewhere between skirmish and Epic in terms of granularity of rules and list building. Granted, the execution of this transition seems a touch haphazard and it will likely result in a game that some players might not be interested in any more, but it can result in one more in sync with its scale and therefore one that plays better.
Theoretically speaking.
I don't think anyone is going to believe these decisions were made out of anything other than cynicism and laziness. Worse still, it feels like creating the problem to sell the solution again. I just think there can't possibly be good faith in a system that tries to reconcile knights as their own faction in 500pt games. Post 7th all they've tried to do is make the game so stone stupid that anyone can sell it because there aren't any real restrictions at the end of the day. It's a card game with models now and we're all worse off for it. Posting pictures of actual boards with actual terrain is all I have left now, the game really has become battling over giant branded discs in the same terrible looking city until you just quit playing. That's the state of 40k. At least aos boards tend to look good. Sigh.
I always felt 7th and 8th was good editions apart from formations. 9th was so bloated I could barely play it.
Beer and Pretzel games that can be done in 2 hours is why I go back to 3rd edition and play 1500 points. Bigger table, less terrain, smaller unit footprints and bases. No rerolls, stratagems, WLT or secondaries also helps in just playing for the heck of it.
Let the galaxy burn.
2023/06/17 12:12:44
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
kodos wrote: yet we have Dastacards for models that don't exist, can be easily spotted as they show no model on the card
It’s not a consistent policy, just a worrying trend.
Some of those placeholder pictures are just because GW doesn’t have a unit painted up for the studio army with that option. Like vanguard vets on foot.
it is a trend since 5th Edition and GW not having a model ready for the pic is the same argument as they could not test the rules because they had no printed rulebook available
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2023/06/17 12:35:47
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
I’m not going to White Knight everything GW does. They screw up. Often. I’m also not going to drink the hateorade and rage quit. Things change with editions, as they do. I’ll shift how I build and play to match. Parts of it I’ll grumble about, and parts I’ll enjoy. But I’ll try not to let the bad parts overshadow the fun I’m having. Nothing is perfect, certainly not 40k. But for me, the silver linings outshine the clouds. So I keep playing.
I love this sentiment. So nicely worded.
2023/06/17 12:39:47
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
I always felt 7th and 8th was good editions apart from formations. 9th was so bloated I could barely play it.
Beer and Pretzel games that can be done in 2 hours is why I go back to 3rd edition and play 1500 points. Bigger table, less terrain, smaller unit footprints and bases. No rerolls, stratagems, WLT or secondaries also helps in just playing for the heck of it.
I think 7th could have easily been refined into a much better edition. Yes, there was a lot of broken stuff, but most of it could be traced back to a handful of factors:
- The ally rules allowing a lot of broken combinations.
- The psychic phase. Oh dear God, the psychic phase. Especially when combined with the stupidly unbalanced power tables.
- Random! Random! Random! Random! Random! Random! Random!
- Super-Heavies and Fliers being shoehorned in and not at all balanced, so that many factions were left with no real way to deal with them.
Not by any means an exhaustive list, but fixing those would have immediately stripped away the most egregious offenders that made 7th nigh unplayable without house rules.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2023/06/17 12:49:12
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
kodos wrote: yet we have Dastacards for models that don't exist, can be easily spotted as they show no model on the card
It’s not a consistent policy, just a worrying trend.
Some of those placeholder pictures are just because GW doesn’t have a unit painted up for the studio army with that option. Like vanguard vets on foot.
it is a trend since 5th Edition and GW not having a model ready for the pic is the same argument as they could not test the rules because they had no printed rulebook available
I think there are a few issues at work here, none of which are being handled consistently .
One is legacy support. How long do you include rules for minis out of print? Las/plas razorbacks were still the go-to choice while they had rules, which was quite a few editions after they went OOP. You don’t want to invalidate people’s collections, but it can be rough on new players who want to field options that went OOP before they were born. GW doesn’t want to open the door for 3rd party options, and kitbashing is not something everyone is capable or desires to do.
With how wonderfully cross compatible some ranges are (marines being a big one) NMNR is particularly galling. Why does a primaris captain need to pair a powerfist with a plasma pistol? Why not a fist and a rifle? Sargents can. It’s because that’s what the kit comes with. Captains should have almost full access to the armory, to take what they want. There is no in-universe reason for it. Sales/marketing intruding into the universe and breaking immersion. And as a modeler, I like kitbashing. NMNR puts the breaks on what I can do, if I still want to use my mini in the game.
Cutting options and restricting things has always been part of the game, but not at the silly level we are at now.
And to do so, you have to actively choose NOT to Deep Strike your units.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2023/06/17 13:15:26
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
Yeah, it's less "Army that kills itself" and more "player actively chooses not to play game".
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2023/06/17 13:23:27
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - a schedule of free datasheet downloads is in the 1st post!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again until the heat death of the universe: Stop giving GW money for this total hogwash masquerading as a ruleset. Stop accepting mediocrity from a company so profitable they have no excuse for this level of laziness and contempt for the players. Stop assuming that because you already have the GW models you have to play the GW game, when there are a significant number of similar games that are manufacturer agnostic. Things will never improve if you let GW get away with treating you like an idiot.
Come and play OPR, we have actual points *and* options...
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
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