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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder what expenses they expect their customers to cut from their lives in order to continue feeding the habit.

I choose paint.
My Grey plastic/base coated stuff seems to play just as well as painted stuff....

After that comes stuff like White Dwarf on a regular basis, & filler material like AoO.

Don't forget rules and vanity projects.

Am I correct to assume that vanguard boxes are starter sets so they will not be affected?

 straken619 wrote:
Am I correct to assume that vanguard boxes are starter sets so they will not be affected?

I would imagine they are not considered starter sets, they likely meant the build & paint boxes and the core rules related boxes

 straken619 wrote:
Am I correct to assume that vanguard boxes are starter sets so they will not be affected?

On the US price list that’s doing the rounds Vanguards go from $130 to $160 those at $140 (S2D, GSG, BoC) stay $140

Tsagualsa wrote:
... Miniature wargaming is still a tiny market, even as far as hobby markets go, ....

For the record:

The worldwide tabletop games sector that Warhammer is part of will be worth $12bn (£8.6bn) by 2023, up from $7.2bn in 2017, according to the consumer data firm Statista,

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/31/how-games-workshop-grew-to-become-more-profitable-than-google

Revenue in the Toys & Hobby market amounts to US$502.10bn in 2023. The market is expected to grow annually by 6.56% (CAGR 2023-2027).
The market's largest segment is the segment Toys & Games with a market volume of US$297.70bn in 2023.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/toys-hobby/worldwide

So, [tabletop games] is around 4% of the total 'Toys & Games' market, which itself nearly 2x the size of 'Sports Equipment'.
'Toys & Games' grew by 6% in the past year. It is not the same thing as a price rise, (even though the number is the same), but it looks to be fairly in line with the industry.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
... Miniature wargaming is still a tiny market, even as far as hobby markets go, ....

For the record:

The worldwide tabletop games sector that Warhammer is part of will be worth $12bn (£8.6bn) by 2023, up from $7.2bn in 2017, according to the consumer data firm Statista,

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/31/how-games-workshop-grew-to-become-more-profitable-than-google

Revenue in the Toys & Hobby market amounts to US$502.10bn in 2023. The market is expected to grow annually by 6.56% (CAGR 2023-2027).
The market's largest segment is the segment Toys & Games with a market volume of US$297.70bn in 2023.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/toys-hobby/worldwide

So, Miniature wargaming is around 4% of the total 'Toys & Games' market, which itself nearly 2x the size of 'Sports Equipment'.
'Toys & Games' grew by 6% in the past year. It is not the same thing as a price rise, (even though the number is the same), but it looks to be fairly in line with the industry.

On that evidence, tabletop gaming is 4% of Toys and Games. Miniature wargaming will be only a portion of that, with board games, RPGs and CCGs making up the rest. Board games and CCGs will, at a guess, be considerably larger chunks than miniature wargaming.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
... Miniature wargaming is still a tiny market, even as far as hobby markets go, ....

For the record:

The worldwide tabletop games sector that Warhammer is part of will be worth $12bn (£8.6bn) by 2023, up from $7.2bn in 2017, according to the consumer data firm Statista,

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jul/31/how-games-workshop-grew-to-become-more-profitable-than-google

Revenue in the Toys & Hobby market amounts to US$502.10bn in 2023. The market is expected to grow annually by 6.56% (CAGR 2023-2027).
The market's largest segment is the segment Toys & Games with a market volume of US$297.70bn in 2023.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/toys-hobby/worldwide

So, Miniature wargaming is around 4% of the total 'Toys & Games' market, which itself nearly 2x the size of 'Sports Equipment'.
'Toys & Games' grew by 6% in the past year. It is not the same thing as a price rise, (even though the number is the same), but it looks to be fairly in line with the industry.

The 'tabletop games sector' does not mean 'tabletop wargames' alone, but includes classic boardgames, pen&paper games, dice games, card games and puzzles. 'Sports Equipment' is also a misleading category, because it excludes the most popular pieces of actual sports equipment, i.e. shoes and clothing.

Tl;dr: marketing statistics are a confusing mess

I'm not saying GW is not insanely profitable, but it still happens over a relatively small market base.

To put things on perspective: Hasbro's classical gaming division, which includes stuff like Magic: the Gathering and the Monopoly boardgame, earned revenues of ~ 1.75 billion USD in 2020, which is about 5 times the revenue that GW generated in that year. And i'd wager a guess that printing glorified cardboard chits and cards is a lot more profitable than distributing plastic and resin figures.

 DaveC wrote:

 straken619 wrote:
Am I correct to assume that vanguard boxes are starter sets so they will not be affected?

On the US price list that’s doing the rounds Vanguards go from $130 to $160 those at $140 (S2D, GSG, BoC) stay $140

How about you post that list?

I'm wondering if what Mikhaila is seeing was a double-whammy, as we know the change to trade accounts was in the works too right?

Tsagualsa wrote:

The 'tabletop games sector' does not mean 'tabletop wargames' alone, but includes classic boardgames, pen&paper games, dice games, card games and puzzles. 'Sports Equipment' is also a misleading category, because it excludes the most popular pieces of actual sports equipment, i.e. shoes and clothing.

Tl;dr: marketing statistics are a confusing mess

I'm not saying GW is not insanely profitable, but it still happens over a relatively small market base.

Yeah, I misread that bit.

Something I should have added, is this:

As of February 2023 Games Workshop Group has a market cap of $3.77 Billion.

Whatever that compares to. Around 30% of the worldwide tabletop games sector, if that is a value of worth?

https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2023/02/Feb%2023%20US%20Price%20File.xlsx

"6%" lmao

Pre covid GW was making roughly 30% profit after everything, according the market reports.

On the US price change doc doing the rounds i looked at the average of all the listed items

Ave was $29 trade for an $53.5 rrp

Thats gone up to $33 trade and $61 rrp

~$4 trade increase for ~$7.5 rrp

If we presume the previous trade gave them 30% profit they got ~$9-10 profit for $50 item. They have added $4 to the average trade price.

This could be looked as the extra business costs per item to retain current profit levels.

They could have absorbed it and seemingly halfed profits, but I think the downturn and reduced sales that would have occurred even without price rises mean this is an attempt to minimise what they expect will be a significant profit drop.

Businesses like this rely on the fact customers are locked in and will typically still spend their $xx per month hobby budget on GW, regardless of how much paper or plasitic it will get them.


[edit; I do feel sorry for US and other international GW buyers, youve got a rough change here. But this is part of the challenge when buying stuff where the primary market and company base is in another country. In the UK we get royally kicked trying to buy US based stuff so know it sucks]

Some of the original single-frame plastic characters are going up 33%.

33% is kinda like 6%.

The lowest increase on the list is 9%, and the average is 20%.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

The 'tabletop games sector' does not mean 'tabletop wargames' alone, but includes classic boardgames, pen&paper games, dice games, card games and puzzles. 'Sports Equipment' is also a misleading category, because it excludes the most popular pieces of actual sports equipment, i.e. shoes and clothing.

Tl;dr: marketing statistics are a confusing mess

I'm not saying GW is not insanely profitable, but it still happens over a relatively small market base.

Yeah, I misread that bit.

Something I should have added, is this:

As of February 2023 Games Workshop Group has a market cap of $3.77 Billion.

Whatever that compares to. Around 30% of the worldwide tabletop games sector, if that is a value of worth?

You are comparing Market Capitalization, i.e. 'How much are all their shares worth at current exchange prices' to some measure of 'What the market is worth' according to Statista, which i guess is not a reasonable comparison to make without knowing how Statista measured that, because again, HASBRO alone is also part of that market and has about 8 billion dollars in market capitalization, so clearly there's some sort of model behind that... I'd need to look that up to comment further. I guess that what they're saying is that global yearly earnings in that market amount to ~7 billion, which may be so, but then it makes no sense to compare that to market capitalization because they have no other relation other than sounding same-ish.

ccs wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder what expenses they expect their customers to cut from their lives in order to continue feeding the habit.

I choose paint.
My Grey plastic/base coated stuff seems to play just as well as painted stuff....

After that comes stuff like White Dwarf on a regular basis, & filler material like AoO.

Funnily enough, just a base with a cardboard cutout does also play just as well

Tsagualsa wrote:
You are comparing Market Capitalization, i.e. 'How much are all their shares worth at current exchange prices' to some measure of 'What the market is worth' according to Statista, which i guess is not a reasonable comparison to make without knowing how Statista measured that, because again, HASBRO alone is also part of that market and has about 8 billion dollars in market capitalization, so clearly there's some sort of model behind that... I'd need to look that up to comment further. I guess that what they're saying is that global yearly earnings in that market amount to ~7 billion, which may be so, but then it makes no sense to compare that to market capitalization because they have no other relation other than sounding same-ish.

Got it (sort of). Thanks.

 Skinnereal wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
You are comparing Market Capitalization, i.e. 'How much are all their shares worth at current exchange prices' to some measure of 'What the market is worth' according to Statista, which i guess is not a reasonable comparison to make without knowing how Statista measured that, because again, HASBRO alone is also part of that market and has about 8 billion dollars in market capitalization, so clearly there's some sort of model behind that... I'd need to look that up to comment further. I guess that what they're saying is that global yearly earnings in that market amount to ~7 billion, which may be so, but then it makes no sense to compare that to market capitalization because they have no other relation other than sounding same-ish.

Got it (sort of). Thanks.

No problemo It's something that often confuses journalists as well, so you usually need to be super-careful when reading stuff like that, it's easy to miss a qualifier somewhere or fall for a misunderstood summary of a correct source.

Wow I'm in the us and thought the 6% bump after just raising the prices recently was rediculas. This is frankly embarrassing. I'll check in on lore from time to time but GW is dead to me.

 DO IT TO IT wrote:
https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2023/02/Feb%2023%20US%20Price%20File.xlsx

"6%" lmao

Yeah there's definitely a fluff-up been made here. That's totally at odds with yesterday's article and includes increases on starter sets etc.

Either the WarCom article is wrong or someone badly miscalculated US pricing and uploaded the file without checking.

 xttz wrote:

 DO IT TO IT wrote:
https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2023/02/Feb%2023%20US%20Price%20File.xlsx

"6%" lmao

Yeah there's definitely a fluff-up been made here. That's totally at odds with yesterday's article and includes increases on starter sets etc.

Either the WarCom article is wrong or someone badly miscalculated US pricing and uploaded the file without checking.

I'm not sure on the dates, is it possible that this chart combines the 'usual' price increase and the change in trade discounts?

 xttz wrote:

 DO IT TO IT wrote:
https://trade.games-workshop.com/assets/2023/02/Feb%2023%20US%20Price%20File.xlsx

"6%" lmao

Yeah there's definitely a fluff-up been made here. That's totally at odds with yesterday's article and includes increases on starter sets etc.

Either the WarCom article is wrong or someone badly miscalculated US pricing and uploaded the file without checking.

"Who uploaded the 'maximum we think we could possibly get away with for the new yacht' spreadsheet by mistake?"

In all seriousness it's very odd that the US one is up but none of the others.

So it looks like Mikhaila's price list for the USA was correct. Wow.

Why would they say that the price rise was on average 6%? Was it just incompetence? An outright lie? it's bizarre.

This seems like a PR disaster, a spectacular own goal, but as I've been saying, GW will just keep on GWing until they are hit in the pocket.

I've said that I had long ago accepted what GW are, but this does seem like they may have gone too far.

Time will tell.

edit-wrong thread quote.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Complaining and complaining about complaining, round 1461647.

Bob has the right idea.

What, come and ineffectually complain about something they don't partake in and have no interest in?

Exalted.

I'm disappointed with the price rise, but not surprised. It won't stop me buying, even though times are tight. It's my hobby, after all.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

GrosseSax wrote:
It feels like the US market is unfairly shouldering the burden of these price hikes.

Why do you think that?

I think that list speaks for itself.

GrosseSax wrote:


I think that list speaks for itself.

Sure, that's understandable.

Lol that spreadsheet is a riot. They increased the zone mortalis sets last year by quite a bump. Now they're increasing their prices by 16-22%?

Yeah, no thanks. So much for making a table. Maybe I'll 3D print one instead.

 Overread wrote:
Isn't metals basically a handful of skaven models and that's about it? Chances are production of metals for GW right now is so insanely low compared to everything else that either

1) They don't need to raise prices on them

2) They don't need to single it out in marketing info even if the prices are going to rise. Or more likely in this course, they just forgot that there's 5 or 6 metal models left in the range.

Guard still have a few, the Regimental Advisors, two out of the three Catachan Characters, both sets of Snipers, Pask, and the Preachers (which are shared with sisters).

I don't get how they get 6 % average price rise in that list, unless they treat every book as 1 point and knowing those didn't go up, yeah.

But still sheesh, 70 $ for a contemptor if i read that right...

ccs wrote:
I choose paint.
My Grey plastic/base coated stuff seems to play just as well as painted stuff....

But looks awful and encourages compulsive buying habits that waste far more money than the cost of paint. If you want to make 40k an affordable hobby the best thing you can do is buy a single kit, paint it to the highest standard you are capable of doing, and never buy anything else as long as you have unpainted models. The thing that wrecks the budget the most is when you keep impulse buying stuff and end up with a massive (and expensive) pile of shame. That's 100% wasted money and it adds up fast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:
Just to be sure what GW is:

a greedy company that rather raise prices to keep the profit margin >40% rather than care fore "the hobby" or "the community" and let the margin decrease below 40%

You just described every single business. If GW's competition could sell at double GW's prices and profits without losing so much sales volume they'd take a net loss overall every single one of them would do it without a moment of hesitation. None of them would give a single about "the hobby" or "the community" if it means more money for the shareholders and more bonus payments to management. You'll be much happier if you accept that this is how capitalism works, GW is nothing special, and you are engaged in a business transaction. I don't give a about GW as more than a source of a product I want to own, GW doesn't give a about me other than as a source of money. No illusions, no disappointment when GW acts in their own best interest instead of as a charity for my benefit.

Sooner or later, each of us faces the day when “Screw you. I got mine.” becomes “I don’t got mine. Please stop screwing me.”

Yeah, I saw 6% average and didn't flinch. I now see 20% average and I am baffled.

Paging @Polonius, paging @Polonius... tell us again about this market research GW did. You really think somebody told them they could charge 20% more and do better than breaking even? I just don't believe that. I really don't. Maybe GW can raise prices 6% in the UK and break even/do better, fine, I can stomach that. But no way this actually helps them in international markets. The US prices are now Australia-tier stupid. I simply don't believe that this is a good business move.