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I’m still awaiting a conclusion to this pointless “news”.

So far, all we have for certain is “person leaves job”.

In the words of a punk band I’ve met? So what?

Whether they’ve been hoofed oot or left whilst the going’s good or left for a better offer? So what?

Has Marvel’s VFX dipped in quality? Has it? Has it really? Like…..really really demonstrably really? Having seen everything from the MCU, I genuinely cannot say I’ve noticed.

And even if the VFX have faltered? So what? The MCU isn’t the DCEU where apparently big flashy SFX are meant to be a substitute for decent stories portrayed well.

Why is this newsworthy?

This thread is going to end up on one of those listicles of people confidently being wrong about things. It's the very essence of the Dunning Kruger effect.

First, to ascend Mount Stupid, I’d need to be making claims as an expert.

But I’m not. And haven’t.

Person exits role. That’s out baseline.

I’m awaiting those claiming expertise to tell me why us mere plebs should care.\

In your own time. It’s ok. I’ll wait. Most of my customers have a six month wait for me to even consider their argument. So fair is fair in the patience derby.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Person leaves their job. The internet cares because……

Because people want to believe <reasons> and because the issue is closely related they believe the meaning behind the event (whatever it may be) proves they're right and life is at least partially a constant and unending search for affirmation.

Reasons include;

1) Marvel sucks and has always sucked
2) Marvel is sucking and losing its magic
3) Marvel is fine, nothing is wrong
4) Marvel is still great
5) write in

It’s alright, I’ll wait.

Thank you for your patience!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
First, to ascend Mount Stupid, I’d need to be making claims as an expert.

But I’m not. And haven’t.

No, you're exhibiting confidence in your level of knowledge because your level of knowledge isn't sufficient to understand how little you know.

Person exits role. That’s out baseline.

I’m awaiting those claiming expertise to tell me why us mere plebs should care.\

The obvious line of reasoning has been stated by me and others multiple times, if you're still not getting it, the fault isn't with us.

In your own time. It’s ok. I’ll wait. Most of my customers have a six month wait for me to even consider their argument. So fair is fair in the patience derby.

6 months to end up with you? Poor fethers.

What phase was Black Panther? Because up until that point even the bad CGI was passable. Then I saw ridiculous looking rhinos on the screen and asked WTF! Granted I've not seen a lot of the recent stuff, but what little I have seen (Spiderman3, Shang Chi) was perfectly fine. Certainly better than BP, and that phase didn't exactly suffer for it.

Were the other recent movies that bad that CGI is what is being blamed for loss of audience interest? Because this one person leaving their job is irrelevant in persuading me to give watching Marvel stuff another chance.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m still awaiting a conclusion to this pointless “news”.

So far, all we have for certain is “person leaves job”.

In the words of a punk band I’ve met? So what?

Whether they’ve been hoofed oot or left whilst the going’s good or left for a better offer? So what?

Has Marvel’s VFX dipped in quality? Has it? Has it really? Like…..really really demonstrably really? Having seen everything from the MCU, I genuinely cannot say I’ve noticed.

And even if the VFX have faltered? So what? The MCU isn’t the DCEU where apparently big flashy SFX are meant to be a substitute for decent stories portrayed well.

Why is this newsworthy?

If you don't find it newsworthy you could just... not participate. That seems better than whatever this is.

 Henry wrote:
What phase was Black Panther? Because up until that point even the bad CGI was passable. Then I saw ridiculous looking rhinos on the screen and asked WTF! Granted I've not seen a lot of the recent stuff, but what little I have seen (Spiderman3, Shang Chi) was perfectly fine. Certainly better than BP, and that phase didn't exactly suffer for it.

Were the other recent movies that bad that CGI is what is being blamed for loss of audience interest? Because this one person leaving their job is irrelevant in persuading me to give watching Marvel stuff another chance.

BP2 was the last Phase 4 movie, Phase 5 starts with Quantumania. You've also got to include the D+ shows as well, with She Hulk being the show that attracted most VFX criticism.

I've not seen Quantumania yet, but I've heard that some people found the VFX (and this is a heavy VFX movie even for MCU films) bad enough to be distracting, which in part has at least stopped me bothering with going to the theatre and wait for streaming.

I don't think this solves any problems by itself (or if at all) but it may be an element of the new broom that we're being told is being applied to Marvel Studios, and it would certainly be a tangible change towards the promised return towards the quality of quantity that Feige has talked about.

Again.

Person leaves job. For whatever reason.]

Your conclusion is……………………….

I am perfectly happy in my ignorance here. Indeed I’m perfectly happy do myself an education. If someone would just tell me why the blinking bloody flip this impacts me. And after that? Why I should care.

I’m not entirely sure which foothill of Mount Stupid as defined by the Dunning Kruger graph, I’m on. But once more for the hard of understanding, given I’ve at no point claimed expertise, and have only asked “so what?” You’d have a super hard job trying to position my lardy, ignorant arse atop Mount Stupid.

So.


What. Is. Your. Point?

 Henry wrote:
What phase was Black Panther?

Black Panther was Phase Three. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever was the final film of Phase Four.

I again voice my lament that we lost Chadwick Boseman. Part of me really thinks he had the sort on screen presence to carry others and his presentation of T'Challa could have become a new center point for the future of the franchise.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I am perfectly happy in my ignorance here.

No kidding?

Indeed I’m perfectly happy do myself an education. If someone would just tell me why the blinking bloody flip this impacts me. And after that? Why I should care

Ok, in the simplest terms.

Pretty pictures might look prettier now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
First, to ascend Mount Stupid, I’d need to be making claims as an expert.

But I’m not. And haven’t.

Person exits role. That’s out baseline.

I’m awaiting those claiming expertise to tell me why us mere plebs should care.\

In your own time. It’s ok. I’ll wait. Most of my customers have a six month wait for me to even consider their argument. So fair is fair in the patience derby.

Well hold up. Don't lump all of us "plebs" with you. I'm relatively interested in this news and I'm not a huge movie buff. Isn't it weird for you to demand people to explain why "you" specifically should care when you clearly have a bias when it comes to Disney/Marvel content? Because Azrael and LordofHats have already done a pretty good job why others would care. And contrary to your statements, it's clear you actually DO care, otherwise you wouldn't continue posting in this thread about it and I think it's mainly because it implies there's something off going on behind the scenes at Marvel, which you've firmly set yourself on as a clear defender of based on previous threads.

You saying it reeks of 4chan certainly doesn't help your case either given that there's nothing far fetched or conspiratorial when it comes to this piece of news. Does that mean that all the rumour mongering from 10th ed leaks were 4chan as well according to you? Cause it's basically on the same level of normal rumours.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again.

Person leaves job. For whatever reason.]

Your conclusion is……………………….

I am perfectly happy in my ignorance here. Indeed I’m perfectly happy do myself an education. If someone would just tell me why the blinking bloody flip this impacts me. And after that? Why I should care.

I’m not entirely sure which foothill of Mount Stupid as defined by the Dunning Kruger graph, I’m on. But once more for the hard of understanding, given I’ve at no point claimed expertise, and have only asked “so what?” You’d have a super hard job trying to position my lardy, ignorant arse atop Mount Stupid.

So.


What. Is. Your. Point?

Why?

 Grimskul wrote:
Well hold up. Don't lump all of us "plebs" with you. I'm relatively interested in this news and I'm not a huge movie buff. Isn't it weird for you to demand people to explain why "you" specifically should care when you clearly have a bias when it comes to Disney/Marvel content? Because Azrael and LordofHats have already done a pretty good job why others would care. And contrary to your statements, it's clear you actually DO care, otherwise you wouldn't continue posting in this thread about it and I think it's mainly because it implies there's something off going on behind the scenes at Marvel, which you've firmly set yourself on as a clear defender of based on previous threads.

To be clear, I don't disagree with Doc either.

This is the definition of a non-event. Maybe she was fired. Maybe she was bored. Maybe she was exhausted from overwork. Maybe marvel sucks maybe it doesn't.

No one actually cares about why she doesn't have her job anymore. They only care about how her not having it can bolster a preexisting opinion.

More to the point, is there any point to arguing about it further? This back-and-forth is already a page long and mostly consists of 'no you!' at this point. It would be more accurate to say the only reason we're talking about this at all is because it feeds into some other argument common to people across the internet. I don't know that I'd use 4chan as a baseline for that, but I see what Doc is getting at in saying it.

Don't put words in people's mouths.

I don't care about Alonso or her future career prospects at all, I certainly wasn't secretly campaigning for her dismissal. Prior to this thread I didn't know she existed.

However, if anyone who enjoys or has enjoyed MCU films cannot understand the possible implications of senior executives moving on, and, as I've already said, new people taking on those roles, on the movies going forward then they simply don't understand how big an impact these people can have on the product.

Whether an individual finds this interesting or not is utterly irrelevant, in the context of the MCU this is noteworthy, and possibly highly significant.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hands up if anyone here even heard her name before this thread?

She is (or, was) one of the three bigwigs at Marvel Studios alongside Kevin Feige and Louis D'Esposito.

She was fired. End of story.

No, no, you have to explain why he has to care...

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I am perfectly happy in my ignorance here.

No kidding?

Indeed not. Please direct me to where I said or presented otherwise, because you simply pretending I did is really dull.

Indeed I’m perfectly happy do myself an education. If someone would just tell me why the blinking bloody flip this impacts me. And after that? Why I should care

Ok, in the simplest terms.

Pretty pictures might look prettier now.

And if you can't see the problems with Marvels FX of late, then... I dunno man. Get glasses?

 Azreal13 wrote:
No, no, you have to explain why he has to care...

If he doesn't understand why the firing of one of the major executives at the most successful production house of the past 15 years is a big deal, then we can't help him...

You could help me by having a point rather than an observation?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
[

Because the MCU is noted for *checks notes* dodgy SFX?

Oh wait, it’s not. At all.

I really feel like you’re trying to grind an axe here, but won’t admit it.

If she was sacked. She was sacked. So what.

If she left for pastures new of her own volition for whatever reason. So what.

I'm not even making an argument, let alone grinding an axe. I'm just trying to explain what the implications of a major executive leaving a major studio and why that's news worthy on a website where the overlap between users and people who consume that studio's output must be approaching 1:1. The difference in implications between her resigning and being sacked must be self evident?

Of all the criticisms of post End Game MCU, the only time I’ve see the SFX criticised…..has been in this very thread. Hence I feel there are bad faith discussion points folks just won’t admit to.

Happy to be wrong.

Oh, well, if you haven't seen any criticism, it must be a figment of my imagination then. Sorry everyone, carry on. I don't even necessarily agree that the VFX have been all that bad, every show or movie has a ropey moment, but the criticism absolutely exists, whether you are aware of it or I agree with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You could help me by having a point rather than an observation?

Why don't you give us an example of what you want to hear?

Right. One last time.

Observation. Person has vacated their role.

Your point therefore is………………………..

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't care about Alonso

*sees page-long argument*

Well, I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Henry wrote:
What phase was Black Panther?

Black Panther was Phase Three. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever was the final film of Phase Four.

BPWF had decent special effects, though. BP had the worst effects in a Marvel film that I can remember. That was 2 phases ago now.

I would think the power struggles above Feige are more consequential for the MCU than the power struggles beneath him. And she seems to be attracting a bigger portion of blame that should spread further, which is not terribly surprising.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I don't care about Alonso

*sees page-long argument*

Well, I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

Don't conflate my attempts to explain a (what I thought was, and what to most people apparently is) simple sequence of events and their possible implications with investment in the broader topic. This could just as easily be about someone being fired from the citrus fruit marketing board and what their departure may mean for the price of OJ as far as my investment goes.

 LordofHats wrote:
This is the definition of a non-event.

To most of us, sure. I personally know two people to whom this might be the best news they've heard this decade, and neither of them is involved in working with Marvel any more.

Talk about leaving a strong impression.

Yeah there are people in the FX industry who - to quote the Hulk - see this as an absolute win.

Because the MCU is noted for *checks notes* dodgy SFX?

If you've missed the last year+ of warfare between VFX studios and Disney, I don't know what to tell you. Its well documented in the mainstream entertainment press.
How you missed out on the complaints about She-Hulk and Ant-man specifically while being omnipresent in those threads here is... dubious.

Talks about fair work hours and (re)-negotiations were a major part of the delays on most of phase 4, movies and series alike.

MDG's 'participation' in this thread is especially baffling considering how often he likes to tell people to stay out of certain threads when they don't have anything nice to say. We get that you don't care man, so let those of us that do discuss the news.

Also for what it's worth, I DID know Victoria Alonso's name - she isn't some obscure nobody in the MCU brass.

To the topic at hand, between the executive shuffling and endless delays, I really do hope Kevin manages to turn the ship around. I love the MCU with all my heart, and I very much want it to be good again. I sincerely hope these aren't the death throes of that enterprise, but it may very well be.