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Rules-wise, neither of these blow me away. Maybe Neurogants will have some sort of application but the Barbgant doesn't seem like it will have any good targets. Mobs of Boyz, if they're good? Just feels pretty niche.
Also, "bio-cannon" is a terrible name, given that it's been used as a catch all for heavy tyranid munitions forever. That's not confusing in the least...
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Gene St. Ealer wrote: Rules-wise, neither of these blow me away. Maybe Neurogants will have some sort of application but the Barbgant doesn't seem like it will have any good targets. Mobs of Boyz, if they're good? Just feels pretty niche.
Also, "bio-cannon" is a terrible name, given that it's been used as a catch all for heavy tyranid munitions forever. That's not confusing in the least...
Wider picture. A squad if just 5 Barbgaunts can kick out a lot of shots. The S5 is enough to reliably worry lighter infantry, and potentially spam enough wounds to tempt the Dice Gods against better armoured infantry.
But as said, just having to hit an enemy unit to slow it down has utility unto itself. Especially (and I think this is yet to be confirmed) if you can still split fire, as they can bog down a number of units each turn.
Given what we’ve seen so far strongly suggests Objectives are key to 10th (not just VPs, but objective related unit boosts), being able to slow the enemy for such little effort is pretty sweet.
The way I see it both these units are moves to not so much change what the whole army can do, but rather change what a gaunt swarm army can do.
With synapse boosting and a more powerful ranged weapon this means you could go with a very strong gaunt swarm army and be effective on the table. At least without splicing in enough big bugs that it stops feeling like a swarm and feels more like just a regular army.
This might also be in response to if GW is cutting down unit sizes a bit so you're no longer going to end up with 200+gaunts on the table plus dozens of other big things in a gaunt force.
I think they are neat addition; new options for mixed armies and an increased ability to create a very swarmy gaunt army
In other news, i finally remembered what the Barbgaunt's silhouette reminded me of, at least subconsciously: one of the medium-stage infected from the Sedition Wars boardgame.
Those are some poor's man Heavy Bolters on the Barbgaunts (as other have said, the decision to use "Bio-cannon" as a gun name is quite lame), but the utility they bring is kinda huge!
Targeting multiple units will be fun, and melee unit will hate them for sure, Death Guards will be slow to cross the board for sure.
I like them so far!
The Neurogaunts wi-fi extender ability is also pretty useful. Synapse range itself isn't that great so they'll still be pretty clustered, but we'll see if they are cheap enough to have those over a cheap unit of Warriors.
Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)
Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts
Skywave wrote: ... the decision to use "Bio-cannon" as a gun name is quite lame...
"Simple, not interesting."
Skywave wrote: The Neurogaunts wi-fi extender ability is also pretty useful. Synapse range itself isn't that great so they'll still be pretty clustered, but we'll see if they are cheap enough to have those over a cheap unit of Warriors.
After that article I've kind of fallen in love with the dopey little things.
I was going to forget about them, paint their weird "armour" bits up silver and stick various random leftover bits from AdMech kits to make 'em some Dark Mechanicus bio-experiment gone wrong, but given their role in a 'Nid army, I think I'll keep 'em.
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
I don't think so, as the ability is explicitly worded 'In your shooting phase...' and technically is an unit ability, not a weapon ability, and thus would not trigger on firing out of turn. Practically, firing the weapon has in itself nothing to do with the ability, the ability triggers in your shooting phase and checks if you have shot. Makes no sense, but that's how it is written.
This leads to the delightfully absurd situation that your 'Disrupting' weapon only disrupts when you fire it nicely in turn, and not when you are actually trying to disrupt an advancing/attacking enemy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/13 08:29:37
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together. On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
I don't think so, as the ability is explicitly worded 'In your shooting phase...' and technically is an unit ability, not a weapon ability, and thus would not trigger on firing out of turn. Practically, firing the weapon has in itself nothing to do with the ability, the ability triggers in your shooting phase and checks if you have shot. Makes no sense, but that's how it is written.
This leads to the delightfully absurd situation that your 'Disrupting' weapon only disrupts when you fire it nicely in turn, and not when you are actually trying to disrupt an advancing/attacking enemy.
The Screamer-Killer's Death Scream ability has similar wording, "In your shooting phase, after this model has shot..." for forcing battle shock tests. I wonder how many other cases there will be and if this is something addressed in overwatch/out-of-phase actions rules?
This got me thinking about the Screamer-Killer forcing a battleshock test, can a unit take a battleshock test when it's already battleshocked? What happens if it fails? Is it doubley battleshocked? And what happens if it passes - does it immediately rally?!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/05/13 08:42:52
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
I don't think so, as the ability is explicitly worded 'In your shooting phase...' and technically is an unit ability, not a weapon ability, and thus would not trigger on firing out of turn. Practically, firing the weapon has in itself nothing to do with the ability, the ability triggers in your shooting phase and checks if you have shot. Makes no sense, but that's how it is written.
This leads to the delightfully absurd situation that your 'Disrupting' weapon only disrupts when you fire it nicely in turn, and not when you are actually trying to disrupt an advancing/attacking enemy.
The Screamer-Killer's Death Scream ability has similar wording, "In your shooting phase, after this model has shot..." for forcing battle shock tests. I wonder how many other cases there will be and if this is something addressed in overwatch/out-of-phase actions rules?
This got me thinking about the Screamer-Killer forcing a battleshock test, can a unit take a battleshock test when it's already battleshocked? What happens if it fails? Is it doubley battleshocked? And what happens if it passes - does it immediately rally?!
These are actually good questions - my gut feeling is that 'rally' checks are something different from Battleshock test, i.e. passing a second Battleshock test during the turn does not rally your unit. As to what failing additional checks does: no idea, we haven't been told yet. Could be that you lose models if you fail test after test, as your soldiers break down into incoherence or run away, but again, we have not been told yet.
As you say, we just don't know, but I suspect that you can't take a battleshock test when already battleshocked, and I doubt there is a rally test.
We know that if you become battleshocked it lasts until "the start of your next Command Phase", so units are neatly no longer battle shocked by the time they have to test in the Command Phase itself when you test for each unit below half-strength.
But it would be nice to know for certain how it works.
It might be that they've thought ahead for once on some of these interactions and we're not supposed to be able to force charge failures using overwatch etc like that, but it's another "need more info" situation all round.
I must say I expected the neurogaunts to have some kind of bodyguard type rule for the big synapse creatures based on things previously said in other articles. Slightly disappointed if what's been revealed is all they have/do.
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together.
On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely
B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
I don't think so, as the ability is explicitly worded 'In your shooting phase...' and technically is an unit ability, not a weapon ability, and thus would not trigger on firing out of turn. Practically, firing the weapon has in itself nothing to do with the ability, the ability triggers in your shooting phase and checks if you have shot. Makes no sense, but that's how it is written.
This leads to the delightfully absurd situation that your 'Disrupting' weapon only disrupts when you fire it nicely in turn, and not when you are actually trying to disrupt an advancing/attacking enemy.
The Screamer-Killer's Death Scream ability has similar wording, "In your shooting phase, after this model has shot..." for forcing battle shock tests. I wonder how many other cases there will be and if this is something addressed in overwatch/out-of-phase actions rules?
This got me thinking about the Screamer-Killer forcing a battleshock test, can a unit take a battleshock test when it's already battleshocked? What happens if it fails? Is it doubley battleshocked? And what happens if it passes - does it immediately rally?!
These are actually good questions - my gut feeling is that 'rally' checks are something different from Battleshock test, i.e. passing a second Battleshock test during the turn does not rally your unit. As to what failing additional checks does: no idea, we haven't been told yet. Could be that you lose models if you fail test after test, as your soldiers break down into incoherence or run away, but again, we have not been told yet.
rally checks don't exist. Battleshock, from its wording, is a status that simply goes away at the start of your command phase. If the unit is below half strength, they then need to check for battleshock again. For getting it again from other sources, it does nothing. There's nothing for 'multiple battleshocks' to do.
Tyran wrote: Most melee units are going to feel having -2 to movement, -2 to advance rolls and -2 to charge.
I mean those WE units that can advance and charge? they basically get a -6"
On the one hand, they can't charge T1 regardless. Unless Deployment Zones are closer than 24" together. On the other hand, 4+(1d6-2, min 0?) is only 7 inches on average. If you can hit 'em two turns in a row, they'd be looking at a charge range of...
8+(1d6-2, min 0)*2+(2d6-2) which is only 19" on average, and caps at 26" if you roll four sixes in a row.
I like them.
They'll probably be psychologically valuable once you managed to make an enemy charge fail by firing them on overwatch once Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
Two things.
A) 5d6 averages 18 shots. 1 hit very likely B) slowdown happens in YOUR shooting phase. See a problem with your idea?
Ah well, that's dumb wording then... makes no sense to restrict it to your own shooting phase, but what can you do.
Depends on overwatch, if its worded to be "as if it were the units shooting phase" then it would still work.
I don't think so, as the ability is explicitly worded 'In your shooting phase...' and technically is an unit ability, not a weapon ability, and thus would not trigger on firing out of turn. Practically, firing the weapon has in itself nothing to do with the ability, the ability triggers in your shooting phase and checks if you have shot. Makes no sense, but that's how it is written.
This leads to the delightfully absurd situation that your 'Disrupting' weapon only disrupts when you fire it nicely in turn, and not when you are actually trying to disrupt an advancing/attacking enemy.
The Screamer-Killer's Death Scream ability has similar wording, "In your shooting phase, after this model has shot..." for forcing battle shock tests. I wonder how many other cases there will be and if this is something addressed in overwatch/out-of-phase actions rules?
This got me thinking about the Screamer-Killer forcing a battleshock test, can a unit take a battleshock test when it's already battleshocked? What happens if it fails? Is it doubley battleshocked? And what happens if it passes - does it immediately rally?!
These are actually good questions - my gut feeling is that 'rally' checks are something different from Battleshock test, i.e. passing a second Battleshock test during the turn does not rally your unit. As to what failing additional checks does: no idea, we haven't been told yet. Could be that you lose models if you fail test after test, as your soldiers break down into incoherence or run away, but again, we have not been told yet.
rally checks don't exist. Battleshock, from its wording, is a status that simply goes away at the start of your command phase. If the unit is below half strength, they then need to check for battleshock again. For getting it again from other sources, it does nothing. There's nothing for 'multiple battleshocks' to do.
But the question remains, if there is nothing in the rules prohibiting a unit taking a battleshock test while it is already battleshocked, and it passes that test, does it rally or is it still battleshocked until its next Command Phase? Still, this is idle speculation and most likely will be a non-issue, but until we have the full rules I can't help but speculate.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On a related note, have we seen anything which might suggest “one battleshock test per unit per phase”?
Only with the Screamer Killer, we’re already seeing the potential for multiple tests.
And not to forget, the Space Marine flamer squad can also cause a battle-shock test in their shooting phase:
Skywave wrote: ... the decision to use "Bio-cannon" as a gun name is quite lame...
"Simple, not interesting."
Skywave wrote: The Neurogaunts wi-fi extender ability is also pretty useful. Synapse range itself isn't that great so they'll still be pretty clustered, but we'll see if they are cheap enough to have those over a cheap unit of Warriors.
After that article I've kind of fallen in love with the dopey little things.
I was going to forget about them, paint their weird "armour" bits up silver and stick various random leftover bits from AdMech kits to make 'em some Dark Mechanicus bio-experiment gone wrong, but given their role in a 'Nid army, I think I'll keep 'em.
I'm just here for the new nodels, and happy we got anything new at all! Rules might be meh, but that's a secondary concern. Now, adding Ad Mech bit and some silver paint on some parts might make some awesome models! Would fit right in with that fully mechanized Nids army I see on the web, the one that looks like Cults vehicles/contraptions!
Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)
Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts
Shadow Walker wrote: Was the release date of the new Combat Patrol ever mentioned?
No, because they haven't announced the Leviathan box that contains it.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I must say I expected the neurogaunts to have some kind of bodyguard type rule for the big synapse creatures based on things previously said in other articles. Slightly disappointed if what's been revealed is all they have/do.
We have yet to see their full datasheet. Maybe there is some bodyguard rule or some keyword that works like that combined with synapse creatures?
I wonder why they choose the contents for both Nids and SM Combat Patrols to be made of the minis included in the Leviathan box? Would the market not be flooded with the cheap halfs of both sides? Unless, there will never be enough Leviathan boxes to meet the demand, and they know people will want shiny new anyway?
Not gonna happen with any regularity, but that one time will probably stick in people's mind.
