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While I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to happen. There are too many other releases for other games taking developer and production time.
And while GW may have been willing to re-brand a few AI and Titanicus boxes for Legions, I can't imagine them doing it for all of the Legions stuff for a new '40k Epic' or even 'Great Crusade' epic game.

Realistically 30k/Heresy Epic was all that we were ever going to get, as it's very limited SKUs, a core set and a few campaign books. So if you want to play Orks you need to take your water wings off and either go for the fan-made Legions adaptations that Apologist and others are working on, or go NetEpic/Net Armageddon or similar. You will be sat with your *something* in your hand and a long wait otherwise.

What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though? Eventually they will run out of stuff they can release. Then they need to decide do they leave money on table or take it.

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though?

The support boxes most likely!

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though? Eventually they will run out of stuff they can release. Then they need to decide do they leave money on table or take it.

I'm gonna guess there's a higher chance the game is axed or stagnant in 10 years rather than them releasing xenos. Prove me wrong, GW, prove me wrong.

My FLGS finally got word from GW that the ruined civitas set is going to go mailorder only from now on. GW lost the shipment of LI stuff when the release came so I guess I can say goodbye to my discount :(. Hopefully at some point they'll at least start shipping the starter set and civitas sector again.

MoD_Legion wrote:
My FLGS finally got word from GW that the ruined civitas set is going to go mailorder only from now on. GW lost the shipment of LI stuff when the release came so I guess I can say goodbye to my discount :(. Hopefully at some point they'll at least start shipping the starter set and civitas sector again.

Ah crap. So that's what is happening with the ruins. Thanks for the heads up!

 Pacific wrote:
While I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to happen. There are too many other releases for other games taking developer and production time.
And while GW may have been willing to re-brand a few AI and Titanicus boxes for Legions, I can't imagine them doing it for all of the Legions stuff for a new '40k Epic' or even 'Great Crusade' epic game.

Realistically 30k/Heresy Epic was all that we were ever going to get, as it's very limited SKUs, a core set and a few campaign books. So if you want to play Orks you need to take your water wings off and either go for the fan-made Legions adaptations that Apologist and others are working on, or go NetEpic/Net Armageddon or similar. You will be sat with your *something* in your hand and a long wait otherwise.

Careful now, if it does happen 10 years from now tneva will bring receipts and call you out about denying the truth.

I do broadly agree with you, for the time being I don't see it happening. GWs production and logistics capabilities seem to be struggling to keep up with the games they currently support (and it seems like LI and TOW may very well have pushed it past the breaking point, even with the recent expansions that GW has done), the specialist team is now supporting how many games? Like 8? But the team isn't 8x larger than it was when it was just doing Horus Heresy for Forgeworld and Blood Bowl in plastic. Where would they even find the time to sculpt minis and write rules and lore and produce art for *another* set of games?

CorwinB wrote:

MoD_Legion wrote:
My FLGS finally got word from GW that the ruined civitas set is going to go mailorder only from now on. GW lost the shipment of LI stuff when the release came so I guess I can say goodbye to my discount :(. Hopefully at some point they'll at least start shipping the starter set and civitas sector again.

Ah crap. So that's what is happening with the ruins. Thanks for the heads up!

At least they aren't going OOP.

Thery need to stretch AoS & 40k Editions back to 4 Year circles...

 Pacific wrote:
While I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to happen. There are too many other releases for other games taking developer and production time.
And while GW may have been willing to re-brand a few AI and Titanicus boxes for Legions, I can't imagine them doing it for all of the Legions stuff for a new '40k Epic' or even 'Great Crusade' epic game.

Realistically 30k/Heresy Epic was all that we were ever going to get, as it's very limited SKUs, a core set and a few campaign books. So if you want to play Orks you need to take your water wings off and either go for the fan-made Legions adaptations that Apologist and others are working on, or go NetEpic/Net Armageddon or similar. You will be sat with your *something* in your hand and a long wait otherwise.

I've been giving it a lot of thought this week, and I'm in agreement that Epic'40K is no longer on the cards.

Just curious, but whats the fan-supported scene like for Warmaster in comparison to NetEpic?


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RazorEdge wrote:
Thery need to stretch AoS & 40k Editions back to 4 Year circles...

This would be sensible as both are joined by their own skirmish and dungeon crawler games. Its no longer a case of trying to sell an army box to a customer but which game is the right fit for them.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
While I would love to see it, I don't think it's going to happen. There are too many other releases for other games taking developer and production time.
And while GW may have been willing to re-brand a few AI and Titanicus boxes for Legions, I can't imagine them doing it for all of the Legions stuff for a new '40k Epic' or even 'Great Crusade' epic game.

Realistically 30k/Heresy Epic was all that we were ever going to get, as it's very limited SKUs, a core set and a few campaign books. So if you want to play Orks you need to take your water wings off and either go for the fan-made Legions adaptations that Apologist and others are working on, or go NetEpic/Net Armageddon or similar. You will be sat with your *something* in your hand and a long wait otherwise.

I've been giving it a lot of thought this week, and I'm in agreement that Epic'40K is no longer on the cards.

I agree...or at least I don't think it's anywhere in the business plan. They're keeping the concepts for these games limited.

It's a shame, because as a fan of AT I think xenos would give the game a real shot in the arm. And although I'm not interested in LI (I have the rulebook though), there are obviously fans of the game that would undoubtedly love to see xenos expansions, etc as part of a proper Epic 40K game. But them's the breaks when you get attached to a GW game that isn't one of their core products. *shrug*

Lets not forget when AT launched GW were very clear that Epic wasn't being made.

The biggest barrier to LI evolving into Epic is the simple fact that they'd have to remake a lot of the core models for the Marine faction - then again that might even be a selling point as far as GW is concerned

 Overread wrote:
Lets not forget when AT launched GW were very clear that Epic wasn't being made.

The biggest barrier to LI evolving into Epic is the simple fact that they'd have to remake a lot of the core models for the Marine faction - then again that might even be a selling point as far as GW is concerned

Would they though? Newer marks aren't even requirement. Rhino's etc work just fine.

GW is already retconning and changing 40k fluff so keeping legions stuff around wouldn't be stretch.

Plus you can introduce eldar, orks and chaos marines just fine without jumping to 40k. There is after all 31k, 32k, 33k etc left...It's not like imperium just threw everything away right away.

That's small issue and frankly 1 sprue for marine infantry would do the trick anyway.

We appear to have wandered off track here again, hopefully we get some news of the expansion soon...

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though?

Nothing.
They'll have dropped it well before the 10y mark.
I predict a 5 yr life span.

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though?

Nothing.
They'll have dropped it well before the 10y mark.
I predict a 5 yr life span.

Hey, don't be so negative!

...it might be earlier /s

 Albertorius wrote:

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though?

Nothing.
They'll have dropped it well before the 10y mark.
I predict a 5 yr life span.

Hey, don't be so negative!

...it might be earlier /s

Yeah... the 10 year mark will be the re-release of a new version to get the nostalgia crowd from this time around.

ccs wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
What you think gw will be releasing for legions in 10 years though?

Nothing.
They'll have dropped it well before the 10y mark.
I predict a 5 yr life span.

Which comes down to GW leaving cash on the table they could.

However you can't be sure GW hasn't learned from it's past mistakes.

It would also mean you assume legions does worse than necromunda...

You seriously think necromunda is automatically going to be bigger cash cow to GW than legions?

When legions has added draw of the GW's biggest cashcow(space marines) which necromunda has.

Bold prediction.

People "know" that GW is the only company were you can be sure that the games will last forever and will always be played

at the same time GW knows that they make the most money on release and not with ongoing support

and Necromunda has seen its own re-release of the new now complete rulenbook and faction books after each bigger expansion

we will see of LI follows Necromunda and we get the "full" rulebook in a year that contains all the expansion rules with the factions rules being their own book or if it will be left aside like AI and re-launched with a 2nd Edi to be left alone again

Think Kodos has it spot on here.

 Formosa wrote:
Think Kodos has it spot on here.

Yeah. The sad thing is, it will go through a Bookrumunda phase. That killed Necromunda in my area. Dozens of contradicting books with piecemeal bits of the game in. Now it's a little more stable, no-one will go for it, because they all expect it to cycle round in a year or two like 40k/AoS.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Think Kodos has it spot on here.

Yeah. The sad thing is, it will go through a Bookrumunda phase. That killed Necromunda in my area. Dozens of contradicting books with piecemeal bits of the game in. Now it's a little more stable, no-one will go for it, because they all expect it to cycle round in a year or two like 40k/AoS.

I am our groups librarian basically, I buy all the books, scan them and distribute them to our group to save money and interest, if I did not do this then the Bookromunda phase as you call it would have killed us off too due to lack of ability to even get the hard copies or cost, love me munda though so I do not mind much.

 Formosa wrote:

I am our groups librarian basically, I buy all the books, scan them and distribute them to our group to save money and interest, if I did not do this then the Bookromunda phase as you call it would have killed us off too due to lack of ability to even get the hard copies or cost, love me munda though so I do not mind much.

I admire your team spirit.

I don't think its much as an issue with Legions Imperialis as the core book contains enough options for a solid army in a single book, and more so than Adeptus Titanicus which only offers two Legios to pick from and no Houses at all. LI's core book feels very generous in comparison, and probably the only book a player will need. Most other GW games require at least two expensive books just to get started...

My only gripe with this is not being able to take both Marine and Solar formations for the primary part of an army; it has to be one or the other. The "Legion Astranii Class Augmented Spearhead" formation feels like what a real Epic army should be; a gathering of forces into a single grand army. The contents of the box set looks like a complete force, whereas the box set for AT can be played as a single force. An army in Horus Heresy should be whether it's Loyalist or Traitor, not bluntly Marines vs Solar. A 28mm battle is different as a single formation would be the entire army for Horus Heresy.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

I am our groups librarian basically, I buy all the books, scan them and distribute them to our group to save money and interest, if I did not do this then the Bookromunda phase as you call it would have killed us off too due to lack of ability to even get the hard copies or cost, love me munda though so I do not mind much.

I admire your team spirit.

I don't think its much as an issue with Legions Imperialis as the core book contains enough options for a solid army in a single book, and more so than Adeptus Titanicus which only offers two Legios to pick from and no Houses at all. LI's core book feels very generous in comparison, and probably the only book a player will need. Most other GW games require at least two expensive books just to get started...

My only gripe with this is not being able to take both Marine and Solar formations for the primary part of an army; it has to be one or the other. The "Legion Astranii Class Augmented Spearhead" formation feels like what a real Epic army should be; a gathering of forces into a single grand army. The contents of the box set looks like a complete force, whereas the box set for AT can be played as a single force. An army in Horus Heresy should be whether it's Loyalist or Traitor, not bluntly Marines vs Solar. A 28mm battle is different as a single formation would be the entire army for Horus Heresy.

But the core rulebook only contains, what, a third or so of what we already know is coming out?

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm going to guess that we're probably going to accumulate and additional 2 or 3 campaign books that you need to have to get rules to play one army.

SamusDrake wrote:
I don't think its much as an issue with Legions Imperialis as the core book contains enough options for a solid army in a single book, and more so than Adeptus Titanicus which only offers two Legios to pick from and no Houses at all. LI's core book feels very generous in comparison, and probably the only book a player will need. Most other GW games require at least two expensive books just to get started..

Dunno... Epic without even artillery doesn't feel like a "solid army" to me.

 Albertorius wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
I don't think its much as an issue with Legions Imperialis as the core book contains enough options for a solid army in a single book, and more so than Adeptus Titanicus which only offers two Legios to pick from and no Houses at all. LI's core book feels very generous in comparison, and probably the only book a player will need. Most other GW games require at least two expensive books just to get started..

Dunno... Epic without even artillery doesn't feel like a "solid army" to me.

Without denying anyone's personal feelings on the matter, I haven't kept too much up to date on this, but interested to understand if the air asset and titan support capabilities cover the niche of missing artillery?

Are there any other bits of what we would consider full combined arms missing?

In terms of what has rules but no models, both sides do have artillery in the form of rapiers but no plastics yet. So some there is some artillery but not much.

The titans are mostly long range fire support platforms, as knights sort of steal their thunder a bit in terms of closer fighting, but it's more an issue that there are slots for artillery in formations that neither side are able to fill. Questoris knights can take rocket pods as an upgrade which function ok as artillery, not quite the same as big big units of massed artillery however.

New book previewed basilisks and medusas as artillery for solar aux, 8 to a box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:


My only gripe with this is not being able to take both Marine and Solar formations for the primary part of an army; it has to be one or the other. The "Legion Astranii Class Augmented Spearhead" formation feels like what a real Epic army should be; a gathering of forces into a single grand army. The contents of the box set looks like a complete force, whereas the box set for AT can be played as a single force. An army in Horus Heresy should be whether it's Loyalist or Traitor, not bluntly Marines vs Solar. A 28mm battle is different as a single formation would be the entire army for Horus Heresy.

The game is a bit too permissive in army construction as it is IMO, especially with space marines and legal armies that resemble boxes of crayons. The 30% allies works well enough to mix solar aux and marines imo, it's the unlimited legion stuff for marines that I feel needs limitng and perhaps should b one primary legon and burning 30% allies to take a second legion.

A concern for the great slaughter is a similar merry-go-round to the current rulebook, we get units to finally complete formations in the current book, but the formations introduced by the new book may suffer similar problems of slots not having unit available yet/ waiting for next book yet again for key units.

SamusDrake wrote:


Just curious, but whats the fan-supported scene like for Warmaster in comparison to NetEpic?

Best described as 'complete'. They have a fancy book with lots of fan art, lists all tested and ready, so it is pretty much pick up and play now.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


But the core rulebook only contains, what, a third or so of what we already know is coming out?

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm going to guess that we're probably going to accumulate and additional 2 or 3 campaign books that you need to have to get rules to play one army.

Been through the book and it covers enough units - for both Marines and Solar - to build a solid army. Infantry, transports, tanks and aircraft. On top of that you get rules for Titan and Knight allies. £37.50 and you're done, unless you really want to take it further.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

Dunno... Epic without even artillery doesn't feel like a "solid army" to me.

An allied Acastus Knight gets the job done.

One side doesn't even have a single ground transport, one of the single most highly awaited models is the dracosan they previewed. It's also significant in that it can seemingly sacrifice half it transport capacity to take a demolisher cannon which certainly has my attention. I'd feel a lot more complete with the rules for it.

 Crablezworth wrote:
The game is a bit too permissive in army construction as it is IMO, especially with space marines and legal armies that resemble boxes of crayons.

I'm sorry... what?