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Could I get a mathhammer bod to math out 10 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt Vs 5 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt and Badrukk please?

Might save me buying another box of Gitz as I can definitely just build Badrukk from my box of abandoned projects.

Edited because I apparently can't spell two letter words.

Forceride wrote:

Eh mate, I think you have your datasheet's mixed up, 20 boyz with warboss and weirdboy don't have -1W unless you spend a strat on them,..

...of course i meant with the strat
and as i am just wanna use em as cheap and durable OC... i dont see the point of upgrading them to snaggaz. when enemy is done shooting thm... the only ones left ware chars and at max a couple of boyz.

Has for warboss in mega armor I already mentioned that through playing him, the best combo so far is to give him 3 MANZ and put them inside the truck and use them as a single use missile, the boss is there for the +1Hit to make them hit on 3, the things you want him to engage will most likely kill his bodyguards, you can also give him the 4fnp to make him a mini beastboss on squig making his waghh kind of redundant yes, but an extra durable character.

at that point i'd rather use warboss and 5 nobz... both clock in at 170 and WB+nobz will do much more dmg than the manly WB +3 Manz, especially in a turn you'll whaagh.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Could I get a mathhammer bod to math out 10 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt Vs 5 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt and Badrukk please?

Might save me buying another box of Gitz as I can definitely just build Badrukk from my box of abandoned projects.

Edited because I apparently can't spell two letter words.

simplified math, moving, no dmg calc:

5 FG
15 shots + 2 sustained + 1 extra hit from rerolls = 8 hits
badrukk
3 shots = 1 hit (better str and ap + can supercharge)
-> 9 hits for 175

10FG
30 shots + 5 sustained = 15 hits for 190

basically its 30% more dmg for 10% more points, if you go full FG but you'll loose on some adaptibility regarding more str, ap and dmg from badrukks gun.

RedNoak wrote:

Forceride wrote:

Eh mate, I think you have your datasheet's mixed up, 20 boyz with warboss and weirdboy don't have -1W unless you spend a strat on them,..

...of course i meant with the strat
and as i am just wanna use em as cheap and durable OC... i dont see the point of upgrading them to snaggaz. when enemy is done shooting thm... the only ones left ware chars and at max a couple of boyz.

Has for warboss in mega armor I already mentioned that through playing him, the best combo so far is to give him 3 MANZ and put them inside the truck and use them as a single use missile, the boss is there for the +1Hit to make them hit on 3, the things you want him to engage will most likely kill his bodyguards, you can also give him the 4fnp to make him a mini beastboss on squig making his waghh kind of redundant yes, but an extra durable character.

at that point i'd rather use warboss and 5 nobz... both clock in at 170 and WB+nobz will do much more dmg than the manly WB +3 Manz, especially in a turn you'll whaagh.

Yeah, I just cut boyz and MANZ from my list's and added trucks. Also I use nobz for backbone of my armies. The shock factor is scary, last game deleted 5 termies + abbadon during waghhh, and that's 5xNobz + Warboss.

Thanks for doing that for me RedNoak

RedNoak wrote:

Forceride wrote:

Eh mate, I think you have your datasheet's mixed up, 20 boyz with warboss and weirdboy don't have -1W unless you spend a strat on them,..

...of course i meant with the strat
and as i am just wanna use em as cheap and durable OC... i dont see the point of upgrading them to snaggaz. when enemy is done shooting thm... the only ones left ware chars and at max a couple of boyz.

Has for warboss in mega armor I already mentioned that through playing him, the best combo so far is to give him 3 MANZ and put them inside the truck and use them as a single use missile, the boss is there for the +1Hit to make them hit on 3, the things you want him to engage will most likely kill his bodyguards, you can also give him the 4fnp to make him a mini beastboss on squig making his waghh kind of redundant yes, but an extra durable character.

at that point i'd rather use warboss and 5 nobz... both clock in at 170 and WB+nobz will do much more dmg than the manly WB +3 Manz, especially in a turn you'll whaagh.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Could I get a mathhammer bod to math out 10 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt Vs 5 Flash Gitz with Ammo Runt and Badrukk please?

Might save me buying another box of Gitz as I can definitely just build Badrukk from my box of abandoned projects.

Edited because I apparently can't spell two letter words.

simplified math, moving, no dmg calc:

5 FG
15 shots + 2 sustained + 1 extra hit from rerolls = 8 hits
badrukk
3 shots = 1 hit (better str and ap + can supercharge)
-> 9 hits for 175

10FG
30 shots + 5 sustained = 15 hits for 190

basically its 30% more dmg for 10% more points, if you go full FG but you'll loose on some adaptibility regarding more str, ap and dmg from badrukks gun.

Badrukk gives full reroll to hit, so your math seems off.

5 Gits, 15 shots, 5 hits + 2,5 sustained hit. 10 Rerolls, another 3,33 hits +1,66 sustained. Together 12,5 hits. Badrukk 1 hit + 0,5 sustained, 2 rerolls, so another 0,66 hits + 0,33 sustained. so 2,5 from Badrukk. So 15 hits in total, which is the same as 10 Gitz without Badrukk. So basically, for 15 points more you get slightly less output (because Badrukks weapon is better) but more wounds, objective control and better CC.

Thanks for rerunning the numbers Bossdoc.

I'll probably just end up buying and making both

I'm so happy I bought a metal Badrukk during 9th for 12.50€, the current prices for him are completely insane

I tell you, the best way to collect orks is by buying stuff with bad rules from people selling their pile of shame.

That said, I finally got my first two mek gunz (for 30€ each), so I don't need to borrow them anymore. How did you guys magnetize the tractor gunz? The other options seem pretty straight forward, but I can't find a good place to put a magnet on those tiny wings.

 Scactha wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
For those interested in squighog riders alternative, Boyz and Nobz added to previously mentioned Bosses.

Machines are STL available MyMiniFactory https://bit.ly/45LH4uD 3DEMON https://bit.ly/3LkR7OV and the riders are GW Boyz/Nobz/Bosses

More pictures on https://www.instagram.com/mektomsug/

Those are amazing. Bought them at once!

If you make a rig let us know

Great! I will do!

Bossdoc wrote:


Badrukk gives full reroll to hit, so your math seems off.

5 Gits, 15 shots, 5 hits + 2,5 sustained hit. 10 Rerolls, another 3,33 hits +1,66 sustained. Together 12,5 hits. Badrukk 1 hit + 0,5 sustained, 2 rerolls, so another 0,66 hits + 0,33 sustained. so 2,5 from Badrukk. So 15 hits in total, which is the same as 10 Gitz without Badrukk. So basically, for 15 points more you get slightly less output (because Badrukks weapon is better) but more wounds, objective control and better CC.

damn you're right! calculated with reroll 1's, really don't know why, Sorry mates
keep in mind thought, that you dont benefit from Badrukks rerolls when they're still in the Trukk... So 10 man unit not utterly unusable.

Im a little curious about the math behind this:

What does the most damage:
6 Squighog boys with a Smasha squig leading them
Or
10 Nobz with 1 warboss leading them

Points wise its pretty close to one another, but i would assume its the Nobz. Although the Nobz would also need at least a trukk to accompany them.

I think you should look at the target's instead of comparing them. The hogs are more generalist's, start throwing them against stuff that has high saves or can decrease their AP and their value plummet's.

You still get, on have average, 6 attacks from each and, 1+ on waaagh.

This is excluding the soft factor's of added mobility and assault on ranged weapons + some decent keywords on the weapons(lance + anti).

On the other hand nobz need babysitting, they get that extra AP, meaning they bounce a lot less, but since your hitting on 3+, anything that hit's their hit will cut their performance heavily. SO they need more support, a truck or something to hide them, because their such a punchy unit they have a target on their back's. If their foot slogging, 10 are harder to hide then 5, but anything they touch, with equal to less T then the claw will likely evaporate, the extra S during waaagh is important for them, giving them more target's to engage, and brutal to target's at T5

On the other hand, their plagued with many problems, their a 2W model with bad saves and no FNP, compared between the 2, the hog has higher chance of reaching their target. It really needs a lot of babysitting and being 10models makes it expensive to even show them, since your opponent will focus fire them to boot and their not the most survivable unit. Their actually really bad if you bring 10 since most of the time you do not need that raw power in the field to deal with a unit. Unless you want to punch something like Lychguard you rarely need 10, and having 2 units of 5 with a boss each does a lot more work then a block of 10.

That's my experience so far.

Last competitive innovations are out and there is quite a lot of warbosses and some of them are pretty interesting

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-meta-morphosis-pt-1/

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-10th-meta-morphosis-pt-2/?fbclid=IwAR0YuirlF2vZCY3KKzJbYnHyEr540bX9HTEHd27I14sd0Ot8Uz_jtdwaRB4_aem_Abhtfc0DR8fdovEPxM_Ed5i-hBS56hvbLaUlh_-Z2rSefBvnGK7Ssbe0rV0o8rlmnpg

Flying Monkey Con 2023 - Bill Stineman brings Ghazzy, Gorkanout and 3 Trukks for a walk and get 11th place


Battle In The Bush 2023 - Kyle Pearson - 5 Beast/Warbosse, 6 Trukks, Wagona and A LOT of Boyz of both kinds go for ride. What can go wrong? 4th place!



Invasion 40k 2023 - Bjørn Olsen - Ghazzy and his buddies go for a walk. Who said greentide is dead? THIS IS GREENTIDE! 4th place

/ what the hell? Mekboy workshop in the list with absolutely no Vehicles??”




On the same tournament, Jonatha Arkin scored too - 6th with a lot of trukks, bosses and all usual stuff




Armed Forces Day 6 - Michael Schietinger mounted everything, that can be mounted and with the most speedfreaks list we can actually can get the 10th place

Interesting to see the Gorkanaut in there, i'll be fielding one myself at GT in a couple of months I hope. I've found them to be good value. In that list it looks like a distraction, maybe... unless he's rapid ingressing it in, which is more likely to work with the changes to towering (since it can be obscured).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
re: bjorn's list - Mekboy workshop to screen out the backfield and stop deepstrikers behind him? takes up a lot of space if you string it out....

I tried out some Lootas and I'm not vibing with them. Maybe I've tweaked my list again slightly to incorporate the loss of the Lootas and an additional Distraction Deff Dread™.

Also testing some tweaks like Squigboss with Killchoppa Vs Mozrog Skragbad and 10 Gitz Vs 5 Gitz with Badrukk.

Still using all the Squigs for all the memes though

That looks hard as nails mate! Re: lootas; I've found them to be situational. The long range is nice.

I'm painting a stompa right now, so it's going in the list for a bit, and I'm giving serious thought to leaning in hard and running Stompa + 3 Gorkanauts.
Rest of the list could be something like 3x10 grots, a mek, 10 boyz and 2 weirdboys to ping around doing stuff.

Afrodactyl, may i suggest stormboyz or more defkoptas? considering the transit you already have in the table might provide you mission options? The snazwagon has been a solid choice for the -1 aura and the shooting is decent, at least for me.I haven't tried dreads since the 10th droped.

Forceride wrote:
Afrodactyl, may i suggest stormboyz or more defkoptas? considering the transit you already have in the table might provide you mission options? The snazwagon has been a solid choice for the -1 aura and the shooting is decent, at least for me.I haven't tried dreads since the 10th droped.

As far as units go I'm somewhat bound to what I can make Squiggy. Stormboys are doable, but they'd be expensive for me to put together as I'd need to buy stormboys, Squig herd and gargoyles to get boys carried by flying Squigs. Even buying the bits separately would be expensive.

Deffkoptas are very doable, but I've already got 12 models that are essentially the same 3 models repeated (hogs, and Deffkoptas made from hogs with Vargheist wings) and I want to mix things up more.

My Deff Dreads are Dreadified Mangler Squigs I'm having a lot of fun with them at the moment, they tend to make a mess of whatever they manage to charge, but you pretty much have to bring them in from reserves. If you try to walk them up the board they tend to die quick as they're not as tough as they look on paper.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

As far as units go I'm somewhat bound to what I can make Squiggy. Stormboys are doable, but they'd be expensive for me to put together as I'd need to buy stormboys, Squig herd and gargoyles to get boys carried by flying Squigs. Even buying the bits separately would be expensive.

i'm guessing you would go with boyz riding (or beeing carried) by flying squigs?
i would suggest to go to the nearest toy store and just look for winged stuff... size of a squigwing is damn variable to say at least
also just use normal boyz to do the conversion, ork players always have strayed boyz lying somewhere... 5 would also be enough to make a great addition to your list.

as far as your list goes... i would try 5 nobz + warboss instead of snaggaz... i like snaggaz in trukks too (brings back memories or 3rd edition lists) but nobz are more effective and cheaper.
same with squiggoth... have a great converted model just sitting on the shelf... its just not worth 150 points
deffdreads... if you want flamers (always good to have an assault weapon for doing objectives) just use 1? this thing needs to get into CC. its where it shines (and as a distraction).

BTW
if anyone is looking for a cheapo conversion project of grot tanks... found these little suckers..
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BW55QTTN?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
they are from china and basically avaiable worldwide, under 100 different brands and names... perfect size and cost like 10bucks

I'm trying to get the hang of Green Tide orks, but have consistently run into issues of simply being blown to bits before I can bring my army to bear.

There's so many bodies that it's hard to deploy everything forward, particularly if the deployment type is "Anything other than Dawn of War," and my army ends up getting obliterated pretty hard before it has a chance to get into melee. If I call a WAAAGH turn one, I have more durability to weather the storm, but then I don't have DPS when I finally close to melee.

I want to get this working rather than simply resort to vehicle spam, but so far I've just found myself too vulnerable to long range fire.

RedNoak wrote:

if anyone is looking for a cheapo conversion project of grot tanks... found these little suckers..
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BW55QTTN?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
they are from china and basically avaiable worldwide, under 100 different brands and names... perfect size and cost like 10bucks

I have 8 at home already! I don' t care how long FW grot tanks will have rules or not. This conversion is absolute must!

Dumb meme list of the day:

I was reading the old Waaagh Ghazgkhull and Sanctus Reach books and thought a Big Mob - trying to do an Orky version of a Knight Banner.


There's not a heck of a lot of options but it might be fun. The Meks can lurk around the walkers with whichever type of firepower I need (but mostly the Morkanauts due to the amount of damage I'll be taking from all that [Hazardous] weaponry)

Anyone tried anything similar? How did it go? Any advice?


Big Mob (1980 points)
Orks
Strike Force (2000 points)
Waaagh! Tribe


CHARACTERS

Mek (60 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench
• Enhancement: Supa-Cybork Body

Mek (45 points)
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench

Mek (45 points)
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench


OTHER DATASHEETS

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm trying to get the hang of Green Tide orks, but have consistently run into issues of simply being blown to bits before I can bring my army to bear.

There's so many bodies that it's hard to deploy everything forward, particularly if the deployment type is "Anything other than Dawn of War," and my army ends up getting obliterated pretty hard before it has a chance to get into melee. If I call a WAAAGH turn one, I have more durability to weather the storm, but then I don't have DPS when I finally close to melee.

I want to get this working rather than simply resort to vehicle spam, but so far I've just found myself too vulnerable to long range fire.

Are you sure your playing with enough terrain on the table, sounds more like your playing in a shooting gallery.

Yeah meta favours shooting, but it isn't that bad unless your playing on table with nothing to hide.

That's my kind of list! It probably actually does ok into certain opponents (like grey knights and sister maybe?), but the problem is scoring obviously. I'd love to try Stompa+3 Gorkas (and only one mek), reckon that's got some play, and some points for grots etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@waaaghpower have you tried big mek with kff or painboy for extra durability, or weirdboys to get there faster and avoid the problems with deployment?

 PaddyMick wrote:
That's my kind of list! It probably actually does ok into certain opponents (like grey knights and sister maybe?), but the problem is scoring obviously. I'd love to try Stompa+3 Gorkas (and only one mek), reckon that's got some play, and some points for grots etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@waaaghpower have you tried big mek with kff or painboy for extra durability, or weirdboys to get there faster and avoid the problems with deployment?

I've tried both - The Weirdboy I was put off from after I got hilariously bad luck, and even the good luck wasn't particularly effective.

I had two units with Weirdboys. On one, I dropped Ere We Go to make the deep strike charge more likely...then rolled a 1. And then took 6 mortal wounds. The other squad made it in, but because my opponent had screens, I couldn't drop near the most valuable targets and I failed my charge. That left me exposed, and a unit of four obliterators just demolished that squad on my opponent's next turn.

Admittedly, I was screwed over by bad luck. (And, hilariously, on the next turn, the first Weirdboy rolled *another* 1 and then got 5 more mortal wounds - making him personally responsible for more ork deaths than any single mini in my opponent's army.) I also could still have won that game if I'd played more tactically, I made a few mistakes. Still, I'm not a fan of relying too heavily on luck.

For the painboy - That went a little better, but didn't turn things around enough. The painboy squad still took a lot of damage, and my opponent ended up charging me with a unit that had D2 weapons in melee, which pretty much completely invalidated the Feel No Pain.

Has anyone used Kommandoes? I'm looking at them as a more reliable way to get close, fast - It's 50 points over a Boyz squad, but they seem to get a lot of good tools in their arsenal to justify the points bump.

Yes Kommandos are great. Can't be overwatched is priceless. Snikrot teleports without rolling as well if you want that. Obviously depending on terrain, my experience is that more than one squad can't be deployed in a good spot, and it's a nice option.
Stormboyz as well, people take them in 5's to do actions but 10 mans are a good way to get a lot of lads in combat fast.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
That's my kind of list! It probably actually does ok into certain opponents (like grey knights and sister maybe?), but the problem is scoring obviously. I'd love to try Stompa+3 Gorkas (and only one mek), reckon that's got some play, and some points for grots etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@waaaghpower have you tried big mek with kff or painboy for extra durability, or weirdboys to get there faster and avoid the problems with deployment?

I've tried both - The Weirdboy I was put off from after I got hilariously bad luck, and even the good luck wasn't particularly effective.

I had two units with Weirdboys. On one, I dropped Ere We Go to make the deep strike charge more likely...then rolled a 1. And then took 6 mortal wounds. The other squad made it in, but because my opponent had screens, I couldn't drop near the most valuable targets and I failed my charge. That left me exposed, and a unit of four obliterators just demolished that squad on my opponent's next turn.

Admittedly, I was screwed over by bad luck. (And, hilariously, on the next turn, the first Weirdboy rolled *another* 1 and then got 5 more mortal wounds - making him personally responsible for more ork deaths than any single mini in my opponent's army.) I also could still have won that game if I'd played more tactically, I made a few mistakes. Still, I'm not a fan of relying too heavily on luck.

For the painboy - That went a little better, but didn't turn things around enough. The painboy squad still took a lot of damage, and my opponent ended up charging me with a unit that had D2 weapons in melee, which pretty much completely invalidated the Feel No Pain.

Has anyone used Kommandoes? I'm looking at them as a more reliable way to get close, fast - It's 50 points over a Boyz squad, but they seem to get a lot of good tools in their arsenal to justify the points bump.

Yeah.. well you just explained why green tide does not work for me, you invest a lot of points for marginal gains, while if you had invested in transports, you would have spent less and achieved more. But yeah orks on foot just don't work since we lack the tool to either survive or recover bodies. Looking backing back i would probably go for a slab of 20 with KKF but even that is expensive.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm trying to get the hang of Green Tide orks, but have consistently run into issues of simply being blown to bits before I can bring my army to bear.

There's so many bodies that it's hard to deploy everything forward, particularly if the deployment type is "Anything other than Dawn of War," and my army ends up getting obliterated pretty hard before it has a chance to get into melee. If I call a WAAAGH turn one, I have more durability to weather the storm, but then I don't have DPS when I finally close to melee.

I want to get this working rather than simply resort to vehicle spam, but so far I've just found myself too vulnerable to long range fire.

(I also read your later posts, I just won't quote everything)

In feel like green tide has been broke by design. GW does not want boyz without support to be a viable army, and I personally think that is a good thing. It requires some work for those who are used to playing that type of list and as it forces you to rethink how your army plays.
That said, I don't think all infantry lists are dead.

If you actually want an all infantry list focusing on melee, you need to pressure your opponent from the very first turn and force him to play your game.
- The weird boyz are not meant to actually threaten valuable target. If your opponent is screening, take down as much of the screen as you can mange. You will lose that mob, it's just a matter of how much damage you deal and how much damage they distract from the enemy army. Throwing dead 'ard on them is a difficult decision, as it's only worth it if the opponent has to dedicate another unit to killing your boyz. If you jump them next to a unit of, say, agressors, they will be dead even if they get -1 to wound. Personally I've found a single weirdboy to be sufficient, but YMMV
- Kommadoz are mandatory for such a list IMO, minimum two units. Threaten objectives from the first turn, move into combat range of valuable units, and most importantly, make sure that weird boy mob has some back-up. Stealth makes them harder to shoot off the board for your opponent, so they waste even more of their killing power. Snikrot is decent, but runs against the idea of what you are trying to do.
- A unit of nobz with warboss and the follow me enhancement are surprisingly fast. If you are going second, there is a big chance of them being able to charge something first turn.
- Flash gits are pretty much mandatory for any walking list. Multiple units of 5, a unit of 10 with or without Badrukk are all valid options. Experiment a bit to find what fits your playstyle best.
- Outside of the jumping mob, boyz really aren't a unit that I would consider to be worth playing (and thus protecting with a character). Instead play nobz(always with warboss attached), beastsnaggas with beastboss or lootas. You might be paying more points per body, but you are getting much more.
- Stormboyz are utility only, not a killing unit. Minimum units for scoring VP are great, max units for killing stuff fast are not. If you don't have stormboyz, warbikers can take that role.
- You will need some shooting to support your boyz. Flip a few pages back for a discussion on that. The short summary is that mek gunz, grot tanks, koptas and killa kanz are all decent options.
- You should consider running squighogs as flanking/hammer unit. They synergize incredibly well with foot lists.

In general, your goal is not to table your opponent. Your goal is to push them out of midfield and prevent them from scoring as many secondaries as possible. You will end up killed or mostly killed in the majority of your games, but you will still win by a landslide of VP. Be aware that banking on a single defensive profile can backfire in 10th, as you might run into an army that is hyper effective at killing boyz. In that case you just lose.

Forceride wrote:

Yeah.. well you just explained why green tide does not work for me, you invest a lot of points for marginal gains, while if you had invested in transports, you would have spent less and achieved more. But yeah orks on foot just don't work since we lack the tool to either survive or recover bodies. Looking backing back i would probably go for a slab of 20 with KKF but even that is expensive.

I've been curious about Kustom Force Field but haven't taken it because it seems a bit redundant - I'm always WAAAGH-ing as soon as possible, meaning I'm often getting a 5+ invuln for the first turn anyways. Overcharging to a 4++ is okay, but is that worth 55 points to get a +1 to that save?
Another option I've looked at is the WAAAGH! banner, since that also provides a 5+ invuln - I can get a nice beefy mob with a 5++ for the first two turns, after which I kind of don't care as much.

 Jidmah wrote:

(I also read your later posts, I just won't quote everything)

In feel like green tide has been broke by design. GW does not want boyz without support to be a viable army, and I personally think that is a good thing. It requires some work for those who are used to playing that type of list and as it forces you to rethink how your army plays.
That said, I don't think all infantry lists are dead.

Yeah...in fairness, I'm deliberately playing at a disadvantage here to try and get it working. I like a challenge, I like playing Orks, and after several fun games in a row where I won with transport pressure I wanted to switch to something with a different playstyle and something that I'd have to work harder at.

If you actually want an all infantry list focusing on melee, you need to pressure your opponent from the very first turn and force him to play your game.
- The weird boyz are not meant to actually threaten valuable target. If your opponent is screening, take down as much of the screen as you can mange. You will lose that mob, it's just a matter of how much damage you deal and how much damage they distract from the enemy army. Throwing dead 'ard on them is a difficult decision, as it's only worth it if the opponent has to dedicate another unit to killing your boyz. If you jump them next to a unit of, say, agressors, they will be dead even if they get -1 to wound. Personally I've found a single weirdboy to be sufficient, but YMMV

The 'Not threatening a valuable target' is fair, my issue has more been the randomness - I am really not a fan of units where something as important as a 200+ point squad can be completely neutralized by a single bad roll. Yes, the game is ultimately dictated by luck, but there's no strategy in 'Will I get screwed over by rolling a 1 with zero opportunity to reroll or mitigate it?' (And then, of course, I still need to actually make charge rolls or weather shooting once I arrive, but that's more standard.)

- Kommadoz are mandatory for such a list IMO, minimum two units. Threaten objectives from the first turn, move into combat range of valuable units, and most importantly, make sure that weird boy mob has some back-up. Stealth makes them harder to shoot off the board for your opponent, so they waste even more of their killing power. Snikrot is decent, but runs against the idea of what you are trying to do.

Despite playing since like 2008, I never actually picked up any Kommandoes - I think it's time to change that!

- A unit of nobz with warboss and the follow me enhancement are surprisingly fast. If you are going second, there is a big chance of them being able to charge something first turn.

I know they get the -1 to Wound, but I'm worried about that being a point sink that will attract too much focus fire - That's, what, almost 300 points in a single unit?

- Flash gits are pretty much mandatory for any walking list. Multiple units of 5, a unit of 10 with or without Badrukk are all valid options. Experiment a bit to find what fits your playstyle best.

And, ironically, these are the only other model that were around in 5th edition that I haven't picked up yet I've got everything else in spades!

- Outside of the jumping mob, boyz really aren't a unit that I would consider to be worth playing (and thus protecting with a character). Instead play nobz(always with warboss attached), beastsnaggas with beastboss or lootas. You might be paying more points per body, but you are getting much more.

I've been running minimum-squad Lootas to pretty good effect. For 50 points, they seem like a pretty fantastic deal, even if their shooting is little more than harassment fodder. Beastsnaggas are something I'm building up to, (I've got 20 of them at the moment,) I'm once again worried that attaching the beastbosses makes them too much of a point sink/cannon fodder, since you're doubling the unit's price and getting a considerably smaller durability improvement.

- Stormboyz are utility only, not a killing unit. Minimum units for scoring VP are great, max units for killing stuff fast are not. If you don't have stormboyz, warbikers can take that role.

Good to know - I've been playing them wrong
I have been running Warbikers in that role, too, but I've been attaching a Wartrike to them - I think I'd be better off running several MSU squads and quietly ignoring their DPS, rather than trying to make them into an assault unit.

- You will need some shooting to support your boyz. Flip a few pages back for a discussion on that. The short summary is that mek gunz, grot tanks, koptas and killa kanz are all decent options.

I've got Koptas I can throw in!

- You should consider running squighogs as flanking/hammer unit. They synergize incredibly well with foot lists.

This is something I've been doing - I've got two squads, and they've typically done very well with Nobz attached, especially throwing Eadwompa's Killchoppa on one of them. (The Nobz are so cheap that it doesn't seem like an issue to attach one to every squad.)

In general, your goal is not to table your opponent. Your goal is to push them out of midfield and prevent them from scoring as many secondaries as possible. You will end up killed or mostly killed in the majority of your games, but you will still win by a landslide of VP. Be aware that banking on a single defensive profile can backfire in 10th, as you might run into an army that is hyper effective at killing boyz. In that case you just lose.

Thank you for the very thorough rundown. This gives me a lot of ideas and I'm excited to try this out on the table.

 PaddyMick wrote:
That's my kind of list! It probably actually does ok into certain opponents (like grey knights and sister maybe?), but the problem is scoring obviously. I'd love to try Stompa+3 Gorkas (and only one mek), reckon that's got some play, and some points for grots etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@waaaghpower have you tried big mek with kff or painboy for extra durability, or weirdboys to get there faster and avoid the problems with deployment?

The 6 Nauts feel like they have a touch more flexibility. A pair of stompas is tempting too, I just don't think the stompa and naut models suit each other well. It's a nice simple list - the trick will (as with all things orky) be timing Waaaggh! because not knly does it give me advance and charge, extra hittyness and an invulnerable (and with a 3+ save one ill realistically use) but it also gives me a +1 to hit, in melee for the Gorkanauts and shooting for the morkanauts.

Waaaghpower wrote:
The 'Not threatening a valuable target' is fair, my issue has more been the randomness - I am really not a fan of units where something as important as a 200+ point squad can be completely neutralized by a single bad roll. Yes, the game is ultimately dictated by luck, but there's no strategy in 'Will I get screwed over by rolling a 1 with zero opportunity to reroll or mitigate it?' (And then, of course, I still need to actually make charge rolls or weather shooting once I arrive, but that's more standard.)

Sure, if your weirdboy explodes and kills half of your mob, that's bad luck. But you might as well have rolled terribly on your charges twice for the same result. Stuff like that just happens.
You can plan for not jumping though. Jumping in this edition is more reliable that it ever was, and people managed with the lower chances in previous editions just fine. Deploy and plan for rolling a '1' so your mob is in a good position even if it doesn't jump. Eventually da jump will get off, and worst case just sling your 'eadbanger at vehicles or monsters to draw your opponents to them.

Despite playing since like 2008, I never actually picked up any Kommandoes - I think it's time to change that!

If you have a stacked box of ork bitz like I do, make sure to kitbash yourself some slugga&choppa extras so you can switch out the special weapons you don't need.

I know they get the -1 to Wound, but I'm worried about that being a point sink that will attract too much focus fire - That's, what, almost 300 points in a single unit?

I've found units of 5 lead by a warboss to do their job just fine. I'm not a fan of units of 10 nobz unless they are riding a battlewagon.

I've been running minimum-squad Lootas to pretty good effect. For 50 points, they seem like a pretty fantastic deal, even if their shooting is little more than harassment fodder. Beastsnaggas are something I'm building up to, (I've got 20 of them at the moment,) I'm once again worried that attaching the beastbosses makes them too much of a point sink/cannon fodder, since you're doubling the unit's price and getting a considerably smaller durability improvement.

IMO focusing on points per wounds is old edition thinking. You need your mobs to actually kill gak if you want to win a game, and adding a beast boss to a mob of beastsnagga boyz significantly increases their ability to kill stuff. I'm sure I'd rather run two mobs of beastsnaggas with a beastboss attached than a three mobz without a character.
That said, I have no experience with either the wurrboy or the painboss, so I'm not sure whether they might actually be worth adding.

I have been running Warbikers in that role, too, but I've been attaching a Wartrike to them - I think I'd be better off running several MSU squads and quietly ignoring their DPS, rather than trying to make them into an assault unit.

A wartrike makes its unit super fast, it's an expensive but reliable way to take over any poorly guarded objective.


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locarno24 wrote:
Dumb meme list of the day:

I was reading the old Waaagh Ghazgkhull and Sanctus Reach books and thought a Big Mob - trying to do an Orky version of a Knight Banner.


There's not a heck of a lot of options but it might be fun. The Meks can lurk around the walkers with whichever type of firepower I need (but mostly the Morkanauts due to the amount of damage I'll be taking from all that [Hazardous] weaponry)

Anyone tried anything similar? How did it go? Any advice?

Spoiler:

Big Mob (1980 points)
Orks
Strike Force (2000 points)
Waaagh! Tribe


CHARACTERS

Mek (60 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench
• Enhancement: Supa-Cybork Body

Mek (45 points)
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench

Mek (45 points)
• 1x Kustom mega-slugga
1x Wrench


OTHER DATASHEETS

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Gorkanaut (280 points)
• 1x Deffstorm mega-shoota
1x Klaw of Gork
2x Rokkit launcha
1x Skorcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Morkanaut (330 points)
• 1x Klaw of Mork
1x Kustom mega-blasta
1x Kustom mega-zappa
2x Rokkit launcha
2x Twin big shoota

Playing that without a mek workshop feels like a sin.