Our Codex is da biggest an da best! - Orks 10th Edition Tactics

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**DakkaHammer**

Hey there fellows under Gork and Mork.

I'm coming back to the game after... long enough to have missed a few things. I read through most of the thread but I have a couple questions.

Are people finding beast snaggas to be a "must use" kinda unit, or is it reasonable to get by with a few power klaws and rokkits sprinkled through a list? Same question with the squighog boyz. I like playing Kult of Speed if that matters.

What are people doing with looted wagons and other conversions? I know games with friends are whatever, but is there a community/tournament sentiment around things like taking a looted demolisher and calling it a boomdakka snazzwagon?
I have one of those, a rhino with a stompa cannon, and some boyz riding landspeeders and necron destroyers that used to be skorcha buggies.

Also RIP Warboss on a boarding plank, long live wrecking ball tank shocks.

**Gulgog TufToof**

Dumb question if I may: I just printed out a Battlescribe list for my first game of 10th, and my koptas don't have any kind of rokkits listed. Is this a Battlescribe omission, or did they get FAQ'd/Errata'd/Whatever'd?

**Jidmah**

Gulgog TufToof wrote:
Dumb question if I may: I just printed out a Battlescribe list for my first game of 10th, and my koptas don't have any kind of rokkits listed. Is this a Battlescribe omission, or did they get FAQ'd/Errata'd/Whatever'd?

Ork battlescribe has always have been riddled with errors for units which aren't used as often.
Short answer: Koptas still have twin-linked rokkits.

Long answer:
You can find official free index rules here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/kx5nnQtms6sxZu6j.pdf
Wahapedia is back in business providing bootlegged rules for 10th: https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/orks/

I also like this page for quickly scrolling for datasheets, you can integrate both the index cards and wahapedia as data sources: https://game-datacards.eu

**Afrodactyl**

Just seen that we've hit a 56% win rate. Possibilities for (minor) nerfs on the horizon?

If they nerf anything, I'd imagine it would be some of the Snagga range (Squigosaur/Mozrog, Hogs, Snagga Boys) Flash Gitz or Nobz. Possibly stormboys and warbikes if they wanted to hit our point scoring units instead of the stuff that hits hard.

**PaddyMick**

DakkaHammer wrote:
What are people doing with looted wagons and other conversions? I know games with friends are whatever, but is there a community/tournament sentiment around things like taking a looted demolisher and calling it a boomdakka snazzwagon?
I have one of those, a rhino with a stompa cannon, and some boyz riding landspeeders and necron destroyers that used to be skorcha buggies.

I can't advise you on tactics much; but I do have an opinion (and it's just an opinion) on counts-as.
We in a wild west for wysiwyg right now; there's that many datacards, and everyone gets all the free wargear, that it's kind of inevitable that you can't field the exact models that match your list you want. A good example is guard, who get a HK on every vehicle. I've seen players just use a token that they remove once it's shot. I think as long as you make it clear to your opponent, and it's a reasonable size, and kinda looks like what it's meant to do, it's gonna be fine 90% of the time (until you come up against that gu - but then you're gonna have a bad game anyway). For tournaments, the advice is always check with the TO. Now I don't entirely agree with this, as TO's have to err on the side of caution and many would rather have zero chances of an incident than let someone play a counts-as model, so sometimes I won't ask, and just bring what I need to bring, and it's always been fine so far (but I play on the lower tables usually!). Your mileage may vary. Nice looting!

**Jidmah**

DakkaHammer wrote:
What are people doing with looted wagons and other conversions? I know games with friends are whatever, but is there a community/tournament sentiment around things like taking a looted demolisher and calling it a boomdakka snazzwagon?
I have one of those, a rhino with a stompa cannon, and some boyz riding landspeeders and necron destroyers that used to be skorcha buggies.

I would try to do a best effort match the looted wagons with the profiles of the buggies' main guns.

For a demolisher, a Boomdakka Snazzwagon feels wrong, because it's a high value dakka kind of buggy, for a demolisher I would just go with the scrapjet as it's the "big explosions at short range" buggy.

The rhino could either be a scrapjet as well, or a squigbuggy if you feel like it should be able to fire indirectly.

The landspeeders and necron destroyers could either be koptas or squighounds.

**ccs**

PaddyMick wrote:
DakkaHammer wrote:
What are people doing with looted wagons and other conversions? I know games with friends are whatever, but is there a community/tournament sentiment around things like taking a looted demolisher and calling it a boomdakka snazzwagon?
I have one of those, a rhino with a stompa cannon, and some boyz riding landspeeders and necron destroyers that used to be skorcha buggies.

I can't advise you on tactics much; but I do have an opinion (and it's just an opinion) on counts-as.
We in a wild west for wysiwyg right now; there's that many datacards, and everyone gets all the free wargear, that it's kind of inevitable that you can't field the exact models that match your list you want. A good example is guard, who get a HK on every vehicle.

Oh you can definitely field exact WYSIWYG options. You just have to invest the time/effort.

**Grimskul**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Just seen that we've hit a 56% win rate. Possibilities for (minor) nerfs on the horizon?

If they nerf anything, I'd imagine it would be some of the Snagga range (Squigosaur/Mozrog, Hogs, Snagga Boys) Flash Gitz or Nobz. Possibly stormboys and warbikes if they wanted to hit our point scoring units instead of the stuff that hits hard.

I feel like they'll reverse some of the weirder points drop we received last time around (grots going back to their original points, same with badrukk), while smacking down on the ones you mentioned. Knowing GW though, they'll jack up things that didn't really have an impact like Mek Gunz again. Just hoping they don't hit trukks with another price increase. That or at least address some of the overpriced stuff we have at the moment if they're going to jack up the cost for our harder hitting units.

**Afrodactyl**

Grimskul wrote:
Afrodactyl wrote:
Just seen that we've hit a 56% win rate. Possibilities for (minor) nerfs on the horizon?

If they nerf anything, I'd imagine it would be some of the Snagga range (Squigosaur/Mozrog, Hogs, Snagga Boys) Flash Gitz or Nobz. Possibly stormboys and warbikes if they wanted to hit our point scoring units instead of the stuff that hits hard.

I feel like they'll reverse some of the weirder points drop we received last time around (grots going back to their original points, same with badrukk), while smacking down on the ones you mentioned. Knowing GW though, they'll jack up things that didn't really have an impact like Mek Gunz again. Just hoping they don't hit trukks with another price increase. That or at least address some of the overpriced stuff we have at the moment if they're going to jack up the cost for our harder hitting units.

This is where Nobz get a points drop and Mek guns go to 65 points

**Grimskul**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Afrodactyl wrote:
Just seen that we've hit a 56% win rate. Possibilities for (minor) nerfs on the horizon?

If they nerf anything, I'd imagine it would be some of the Snagga range (Squigosaur/Mozrog, Hogs, Snagga Boys) Flash Gitz or Nobz. Possibly stormboys and warbikes if they wanted to hit our point scoring units instead of the stuff that hits hard.

I feel like they'll reverse some of the weirder points drop we received last time around (grots going back to their original points, same with badrukk), while smacking down on the ones you mentioned. Knowing GW though, they'll jack up things that didn't really have an impact like Mek Gunz again. Just hoping they don't hit trukks with another price increase. That or at least address some of the overpriced stuff we have at the moment if they're going to jack up the cost for our harder hitting units.

This is where Nobz get a points drop and Mek guns go to 65 points

We can only hope lol. GW can be really out of touch sometimes.

**SemperMortis**

Well boyz, sorry i've been off for so long, I know several of you will be sad to hear I am back

However I have been very active gaming as opposed to posting, at least 1 game a week, sometimes 2-4.

I have tried literally every unit in my army except for my Flashgitz because I only have 5 and for some reason everyone is sold out :(

So quick breakdown of my findings so far, and keep in mind this is my own personal opinion based exclusively on my own personal games so please take it with a HUGE grain of salt.

HQs:
Snikrot: too expensive for what little he does. You pay 20pts more for a crappier warboss who doesn't even buff the unit except with cover and a once a game teleport.

Zagstruk: Same as Snikrot except he does give +1 to hit but no teleport, re-roll charge is nice but its only on 1 turn and its only for when hes 9" away from the opponent.

Ghaz: too expensive, too limited and too weak. He is too squishy to go by himself and too slow not to ride in a transport, add in the stupid size limitation you are left with no alternative except to run him alone or have him footslog up the board where he won't get into combat until turn 2-3 at best and when he does his bodyguard will be dead.

Badrukk/Mad Dok/Mozrog/Zogrod: No opinion, haven't played with them this edition.

Beastboss: I still don't understand him. He got nerfed, he is 33% more expensive than a regular warboss and his only benefit is that he gets devastating wounds if he charges. In my opinion he isn't worth it.

Beastboss on Squig: !!!!! does work. I always give him the killa Klaw for that "Btw, everything he has is devastating and against vehicles monsters I devastate on 4s

Favorite part about him though is the sheer durability of the beast. T10, 3+ save with a 5+ and a 4+ FNP

Big Mek Mega armor: Love him, possibly a bit too expensive but his buffs are his real power. healing a model and resurrecting a dead meganob is just insanely powerful.

Big Mek/ KFF: Haven't run one.

Big Mek w/ SAG: Love it for its hilarity but in terms of actual dmg output....mediocre at best. His buff doesn't work on lootas and boyz don't need it and Mek Gunz don't need it 1/2 the time. Average of 4 shots a turn isn't enough to justify 75pts especially at BS5 (Heavy) and only S9 in an edition where his prime targets are all S10+

Wartrike: Don't own one, won't own one, i think its ugly.

Mek: Fun little guys to buff a shooting unit. I routinely plop them in a unit of Mek gunz to make one of them better and to heal the occasional dmg. bit to pricey for the little that he does. It is fun to have a hidden killsaw in a mek gun unit though.

Nob on smasha squig: Never leave home without one....or 3. That +1 to hit is wicked important for squighog boyz and his own dmg isn't too shabby.

Nob W/Banner: honestly, its crap. You are paying 70pts for giving 1 unit an extra nob model and to give it 1 extra turn of WAAAGH. Drop it 20pts or more and it might be a viable strat except that the 2 units it can attach to are currently terrible (in my opinion).

Painboss: Not worth it but its fun. 60pts to increase a snagga boyz FNP from a 6+ to a 5+, he is a decent CC model but if I had to pick I'd rather not take snagga boyz.

painboy: ironically somehow more expensive than the boss, Drop him 20pts or more and maybe, but again the problem is the units he can lead are all bad in my opinion.

warboss: Lovem, anytime I do bring boyz I always bring a warboss for them. +1 to hit and getting that many attacks with a PK on the waaagh turn is just funny. If boyz were better he would be a staple in my lists.

Warboss in Mega Armor: Sadly I don't like him. I'd rather bring a Big mek than him to lead Meganobz He is way better in CC and his buff does help the meganobz get more dmg in but i use meganobz as hard to shift bricks rather than melee beat sticks so he doesn't mesh with that plan as well.

Warboss on Bike: He is great for what he does, and that is getting a unit of warbikes across the table FAST. But that is about it. In my opinion bikes are only good as objective grabbers and action monkeys right now so buffing them doesn't make sense.

Weirdboy: Maybe if boys were better they would be better? Da Jump hasn't been a big thing for me this edition since its so easy to get across the table right now and objectives are easy to get as well. So showing up 9" away from a unit and no re-roll charge...no thanks.

Wurrboy: worse than the weirdboy. tell me a Marine player designed him without telling me a marine player designed him. "he gets more attacks with his ranged weapon for every 5 models in the unit!" cool...he hits on 5s and it becomes hazardous. At MAX buff its D6+8 shots, averages 11.5 shots for 4ish hits. realistically its D6+2 99% of the time and that works out to less than 2 hits a turn. And again, has to lead snagga boyz which aren't that good right now.

Troops:

Snagga boyz: 105pts for a unit that is basically Boyz +1. There unit ability literally defeats the purpose of attaching a beastboss to them. Easiest fix would be to give them monster/vehicle hunter 5+ and to drop them 15pts

Boyz: too expensive and too hard to use. 1 ability is you get to kill yourself to re-roll a battleshock test and the other is bring a giant target for the enemy and your reward is you get to make it an even juicier target for blast weapons by adding in 120+pts of characters. The days of blobs of boyz is over, so make them dirt cheap for what little they can do and make their ability matter. drop them 15pts as well and give them an ability like +1 attack while on an objective.

Infantry:

Burnaboyz: honestly they aren't terrible, but they just don't do much for their price of 12ppm. If they were closer to 8-9pts they might do better.

Flashgitz: as mentioned, haven't brought them out.

Grotz: cheap action monkeys and easy way to make back some CP. I'd recommend bringing 1-3 units

Kommandos: I love my kommandos so much, I want them to be good so badly...but they aren't :( 135pts for basically boyz that get to scout and get stealth isn't worth it. The extra weapons you can hide in there is nice but realistically they die as soon as they get targeted. Their big thing in 9th was being able to rip apart units that were in cover, now they aren't any better in CC then regular boyz except for the one extra CC weapon they get.

Lootas: they are what they are, small unit of auto-cannon equivalents. They don't do enough dmg, they don't get enough shots and they aren't durable. Make them BS5 Heavy and they might be worth 50pts or bump them up to 3+ shots and we will see.

Meganobz: I bring a brick or two of them fairly often to stick a megamek in there just to make them ridiculously durable. 5+ invuln all game AND resurrecting a big mek each turn is just nutz.

Stormboyz: Way too expensive...like WAY Too expensive. Boyz are too expensive at 8.5ppm, these muppets are 13ppm. DSing action monkeys and not much else, but again, too expensive for what they do in my opinion.

Tankbustas: Hey did I say Stormboyz were too expensive? What I meant to say was WTF are these guys doing to be priced at 22ppm. They got nerfed by being forced to take only 5 models, they got nerfed by being forced to take what was in the stupid kit and then they got nerfed by being 22ppm. I've taken them twice and neither time did they do anything. Realistically you can cut that price by 40pts and it might still be too much. For comparison, a unit of 3 eradicators is 15pts cheaper. Those eradicators have more wounds, more toughness, better saves and full re-roll hit/wound/dmg on their weapons when targeting vehicles/monsters.

Mounted:

Nobz on Warbike: warbikes but more expensive and a much better target to hit. The only thing they are better at than regular warbikers is CC and you don't want either one in CC so...take warbikes.

Squighogboyz: Lovem. I take 3 maxed squads as often as possible. Slap a nob in their and watch them eat wounds like they are tanks and then get stuck in and do some SERIOUS dmg. Lance on the charge is nice, especially against pesky infantry that they struggle a bit against.

Warbikes: Action monkeys, relatively cheap (too expensive) they suck at shooting and they suck in CC. run them around the board and score objectives and secondaries, never expect them to earn their points back in CC unless your opponent throws a glass unit at them.

Monsters:

Sorry I don't own either :(

Vehicles:

Battlewagon: Crap tier. 185pts for a transport with lots of useless guns and an ok(ish) CC statline. Give it BS4 base and we can talk, slash 50pts off it and it would be acceptable.

Big Trakk: Don't own one :(

Blitzbommer: Not worth it honestly. Its just a dakkajet with less shooting and a bombing ability which realistically will be used once maybe twice if you are lucky which means you have a 50% chance to get D6 mortals on a single unit.

Snazzwagon: Don't own one

Burnabommer: same as blitza, slightly better and i emphasize SLIGHTLY.

Dakkajet: Best of the planes but its just not that killy and its price is too high.

Deffdread: Not terrible, not great, needs to drop about 20pts.

Deffkoptas: love them but they are too expensive, losing HALF their shots was a huge deal. A bit of love dmg wise and I think they would be worth it. Give them back 2D3 rokkitz and even give them a 10-20pt price bump and they might be competitive.

Gorkanaut: don't own one :(

Grot tanks/mega: Dont own them besides 1 and its for show

Hunta Rig: Don't own one

Kill Rig: too expensive, too weak with its dmg output. All its guns are basically useless except the wurrtower. And in CC it bounces off everything because AP-1 isn't good enough.

Killtank: Don't own one.

Killakanz: I ran a kanwall a few weeks back. It did surprisingly well...with that said, all of its ranged weapons are useless except the rokkit launcher and arguably the skorcha. They do draw a lot of fire but 5 wounds helps. If they went down 20-30pts they would be competitive.

KBB: Don't own one.

Mega dread: Don't own one.

Scrapjets: :( I have 3 but they are terrible right now. I'd rather take deffkoptas over this thing right now.

Mek Gunz: Bread and butter baby. Ive been bringing bubblechukkas every week for a month, they are hilarious and they actually can do some dmg. I went one week where they overwatched and killed 2 enemy characters and an enemy unit, in the regular shooting phase they downed a monster and were the stars of the game for me. I had another week where they literally bounced off everything and were wiped out. Swingy as hell but I love them!

Meka-dread: don't own one.

Morkanaut: Not worth the price. hes heavily over priced. He requires a mek nearby to have a chance of hitting anything so realistically hes closer to 400pts than 300pts. Just not worth the investment.

Squigbuggy: Don't like the model don't own any.

Dragsta: Don't own one.

Stompa: Don't own one.

Wazbom: Don't own one.

Dedicated Transports:

Trukkz: Worth it every time. You can literally take 3 for less than the cost of a battlewagon and oh no you don't get as much pathetic shooting that never does anything.

Biggest note: I'm loving my squig heavy lists. I was able to kill Lion El'Johnson with bomb squigs one week

and rammed a Boss on Squig as well as a squig riders unit straight into a Knight titan in another game where they one shot the knight. They are honestly carrying my lists at the moment.

**DakkaHammer**

PaddyMick wrote:I can't advise you on tactics much; but I do have an opinion (and it's just an opinion) on counts-as.
We in a wild west for wysiwyg right now; there's that many datacards, and everyone gets all the free wargear, that it's kind of inevitable that you can't field the exact models that match your list you want. A good example is guard, who get a HK on every vehicle. I've seen players just use a token that they remove once it's shot. I think as long as you make it clear to your opponent, and it's a reasonable size, and kinda looks like what it's meant to do, it's gonna be fine 90% of the time (until you come up against that gu - but then you're gonna have a bad game anyway). For tournaments, the advice is always check with the TO. Now I don't entirely agree with this, as TO's have to err on the side of caution and many would rather have zero chances of an incident than let someone play a counts-as model, so sometimes I won't ask, and just bring what I need to bring, and it's always been fine so far (but I play on the lower tables usually!). Your mileage may vary. Nice looting!

Fair enough! I've been scratching my head a bit about how to fit all the wargear onto my open-topped battlewagon since the turret it came with has been looted by someone else

Good to hear that "do your best and communicate" is a common approach.

Jidmah wrote:I would try to do a best effort match the looted wagons with the profiles of the buggies' main guns.

For a demolisher, a Boomdakka Snazzwagon feels wrong, because it's a high value dakka kind of buggy, for a demolisher I would just go with the scrapjet as it's the "big explosions at short range" buggy.

The rhino could either be a scrapjet as well, or a squigbuggy if you feel like it should be able to fire indirectly.

The landspeeders and necron destroyers could either be koptas or squighounds.

Hmm, I hadn't paid too much attention to the scrapjet sheet but that would make sense. I'll admit I read "boom" and stopped thinking, but I like the idea of extra damage on charges.
Sounds like a similar sentiment so definitely comforting, and thanks for the ideas!

**hollow one**

I've just had a coffee and I still lurk here every now and then, this will be fun to reply to, I'm just going to place my replies in bold inside the quote.

SemperMortis wrote:
Well boyz, sorry i've been off for so long, I know several of you will be sad to hear I am back

However I have been very active gaming as opposed to posting, at least 1 game a week, sometimes 2-4.

I have tried literally every unit in my army except for my Flashgitz because I only have 5 and for some reason everyone is sold out :(

So quick breakdown of my findings so far, and keep in mind this is my own personal opinion based exclusively on my own personal games so please take it with a HUGE grain of salt.

HQs:
Snikrot: too expensive for what little he does. You pay 20pts more for a crappier warboss who doesn't even buff the unit except with cover and a once a game teleport.
I think Snikrot has room as an secondary backup, he is a bit expensive for this, but a once per game solo teleport is cute. Not excited about him either.

Zagstruk: Same as Snikrot except he does give +1 to hit but no teleport, re-roll charge is nice but its only on 1 turn and its only for when hes 9" away from the opponent.
You can get this to a 7" charge with our stratagem of +2adv and charge, you can target units in reserves. Max stormboy + zagstruk is expensive, but 7" rerollable is good.

Ghaz: too expensive, too limited and too weak. He is too squishy to go by himself and too slow not to ride in a transport, add in the stupid size limitation you are left with no alternative except to run him alone or have him footslog up the board where he won't get into combat until turn 2-3 at best and when he does his bodyguard will be dead.
Ghaz answers questions that this army has no answers for. You can not handle 2+ AoC without ghaz, and I think he has room as a counter charge piece with 2 MANz with killsaws. -3ap is hard to find and I would pay the price for this guy if my list needed it (which I think can be often).

Badrukk/Mad Dok/Mozrog/Zogrod: No opinion, haven't played with them this edition.
Badrukk and Mozrog are obviously insane, Zogrod I think has a lot of play with scout move and super speed grots for objective play.

Beastboss: I still don't understand him. He got nerfed, he is 33% more expensive than a regular warboss and his only benefit is that he gets devastating wounds if he charges. In my opinion he isn't worth it.
With snaggas reroll hits on mon/veh, and 5+ exploding strat, you have a boss that is going to reroll all hits to fish for explodes. You're looking at sometimes up to 10 hits! then dev wounds that on your waagh turn, and this little idiot just did 10 dev wounds to knight. We're excited about that, and we need that in our lists, we suffer against high T, and 2+ sv

Beastboss on Squig: !!!!! does work. I always give him the killa Klaw for that "Btw, everything he has is devastating and against vehicles monsters I devastate on 4s Favorite part about him though is the sheer durability of the beast. T10, 3+ save with a 5+ and a 4+ FNP

Big Mek Mega armor: Love him, possibly a bit too expensive but his buffs are his real power. healing a model and resurrecting a dead meganob is just insanely powerful.

Big Mek/ KFF: Haven't run one.

Big Mek w/ SAG: Love it for its hilarity but in terms of actual dmg output....mediocre at best. His buff doesn't work on lootas and boyz don't need it and Mek Gunz don't need it 1/2 the time. Average of 4 shots a turn isn't enough to justify 75pts especially at BS5 (Heavy) and only S9 in an edition where his prime targets are all S10+
I low-key love these guys, and think 3 KMK and a SAG was money for a little while, but they would have to go in strat reserve.

Wartrike: Don't own one, won't own one, i think its ugly.
Very cheap for what he does, I think he's a good candidate for super-cybork body and dominate an objective since his base size is so big.

Mek: Fun little guys to buff a shooting unit. I routinely plop them in a unit of Mek gunz to make one of them better and to heal the occasional dmg. bit to pricey for the little that he does. It is fun to have a hidden killsaw in a mek gun unit though.
I think this lone operative dude does something our army can not do otherwise. Rukkatrukk behind the wall, this guy in front standing on an objective. That's pretty sexy and I would pay 40ish points for that.

Nob on smasha squig: Never leave home without one....or 3. That +1 to hit is wicked important for squighog boyz and his own dmg isn't too shabby.

Nob W/Banner: honestly, its crap. You are paying 70pts for giving 1 unit an extra nob model and to give it 1 extra turn of WAAAGH. Drop it 20pts or more and it might be a viable strat except that the 2 units it can attach to are currently terrible (in my opinion).
Don't dismiss this too fast, I think 5++ and adv+charge out of waagh is really good, but I can't find a home for that.

Painboss: Not worth it but its fun. 60pts to increase a snagga boyz FNP from a 6+ to a 5+, he is a decent CC model but if I had to pick I'd rather not take snagga boyz.

painboy: ironically somehow more expensive than the boss, Drop him 20pts or more and maybe, but again the problem is the units he can lead are all bad in my opinion.

warboss: Lovem, anytime I do bring boyz I always bring a warboss for them. +1 to hit and getting that many attacks with a PK on the waaagh turn is just funny. If boyz were better he would be a staple in my lists.

Warboss in Mega Armor: Sadly I don't like him. I'd rather bring a Big mek than him to lead Meganobz He is way better in CC and his buff does help the meganobz get more dmg in but i use meganobz as hard to shift bricks rather than melee beat sticks so he doesn't mesh with that plan as well.

Warboss on Bike: He is great for what he does, and that is getting a unit of warbikes across the table FAST. But that is about it. In my opinion bikes are only good as objective grabbers and action monkeys right now so buffing them doesn't make sense.

Weirdboy: Maybe if boys were better they would be better? Da Jump hasn't been a big thing for me this edition since its so easy to get across the table right now and objectives are easy to get as well. So showing up 9" away from a unit and no re-roll charge...no thanks.
You bring these guys solo, 50ish points for a dude that teleports every turn and gets you scoring.

Wurrboy: worse than the weirdboy. tell me a Marine player designed him without telling me a marine player designed him. "he gets more attacks with his ranged weapon for every 5 models in the unit!" cool...he hits on 5s and it becomes hazardous. At MAX buff its D6+8 shots, averages 11.5 shots for 4ish hits. realistically its D6+2 99% of the time and that works out to less than 2 hits a turn. And again, has to lead snagga boyz which aren't that good right now.

Troops:

Snagga boyz: 105pts for a unit that is basically Boyz +1. There unit ability literally defeats the purpose of attaching a beastboss to them. Easiest fix would be to give them monster/vehicle hunter 5+ and to drop them 15pts
dont' forget the rerolls man, and the +1 str is really good in the meta atm, lots of T5 running around

Boyz: too expensive and too hard to use. 1 ability is you get to kill yourself to re-roll a battleshock test and the other is bring a giant target for the enemy and your reward is you get to make it an even juicier target for blast weapons by adding in 120+pts of characters. The days of blobs of boyz is over, so make them dirt cheap for what little they can do and make their ability matter. drop them 15pts as well and give them an ability like +1 attack while on an objective.
Boys are probably one of the best units in the codex. 8ppm for 2OC is what you're paying for. That's a great price, and in MSU form it's very playable, but yeah it's not damage.

Infantry:

Burnaboyz: honestly they aren't terrible, but they just don't do much for their price of 12ppm. If they were closer to 8-9pts they might do better.
I agree, these guys have room to be experimented with at this price still. I think these guys are sleepers

Flashgitz: as mentioned, haven't brought them out.
Once you start playing with them you won't stop, they solve so many problems and they are so versatile. Highly recommend

Grotz: cheap action monkeys and easy way to make back some CP. I'd recommend bringing 1-3 units
100%

Kommandos: I love my kommandos so much, I want them to be good so badly...but they aren't :( 135pts for basically boyz that get to scout and get stealth isn't worth it. The extra weapons you can hide in there is nice but realistically they die as soon as they get targeted. Their big thing in 9th was being able to rip apart units that were in cover, now they aren't any better in CC then regular boyz except for the one extra CC weapon they get.
Agreed again. I think the no overwatch rule is REALLY unique but I wouldnt pay this price either.

Lootas: they are what they are, small unit of auto-cannon equivalents. They don't do enough dmg, they don't get enough shots and they aren't durable. Make them BS5 Heavy and they might be worth 50pts or bump them up to 3+ shots and we will see.
These guys are also sleepers imo, this price is just too cheap to not consider, they're basically a boy with almost a free gun?

Meganobz: I bring a brick or two of them fairly often to stick a megamek in there just to make them ridiculously durable. 5+ invuln all game AND resurrecting a big mek each turn is just nutz.
I'm very surprised you're bringing these guys and not considering Ghaz, but perhaps you have enough -3ap with these guys alone. The big Mek is lovely, I just find that once you start to try to deliver these guys (BW's or Trukks) they start to add up in price too much.

Stormboyz: Way too expensive...like WAY Too expensive. Boyz are too expensive at 8.5ppm, these muppets are 13ppm. DSing action monkeys and not much else, but again, too expensive for what they do in my opinion.
65 point secondary scorers, I don't start playing the game with less than 2 of these units in my lists.

Tankbustas: Hey did I say Stormboyz were too expensive? What I meant to say was WTF are these guys doing to be priced at 22ppm. They got nerfed by being forced to take only 5 models, they got nerfed by being forced to take what was in the stupid kit and then they got nerfed by being 22ppm. I've taken them twice and neither time did they do anything. Realistically you can cut that price by 40pts and it might still be too much. For comparison, a unit of 3 eradicators is 15pts cheaper. Those eradicators have more wounds, more toughness, better saves and full re-roll hit/wound/dmg on their weapons when targeting vehicles/monsters.
Everyone agrees with this I think, I'm not even sure I would take them at half price haha)

Mounted:

Nobz on Warbike: warbikes but more expensive and a much better target to hit. The only thing they are better at than regular warbikers is CC and you don't want either one in CC so...take warbikes.
I've taken these guys before, their rule is really sneaky. You can hurt things with multi-charges here. Two things charge 1 screen, you kill the screen with your other unit, then these guys touch something that is within 10". That's kinda cool!

Squighogboyz: Lovem. I take 3 maxed squads as often as possible. Slap a nob in their and watch them eat wounds like they are tanks and then get stuck in and do some SERIOUS dmg. Lance on the charge is nice, especially against pesky infantry that they struggle a bit against.
These guys are the low-hanging fruit of the army. Quite possibly the best thing in the codex, any amount of these guys is correct. You could play 18 and I wouldnt be mad

Warbikes: Action monkeys, relatively cheap (too expensive) they suck at shooting and they suck in CC. run them around the board and score objectives and secondaries, never expect them to earn their points back in CC unless your opponent throws a glass unit at them.
Agreed

Monsters:

Sorry I don't own either :(

Vehicles:

Battlewagon: Crap tier. 185pts for a transport with lots of useless guns and an ok(ish) CC statline. Give it BS4 base and we can talk, slash 50pts off it and it would be acceptable.
Hard disagree. Battlewagon has AoC. In cover you have a unit that shrugs AP2, and AP4 is still a 5+ sv on this model with cover. Like you basically have an invuln. And the firing deck is great, flash gits dont mind this. But really the durability is amazing. And it has a deff roller, so you're happy to deliver something with this and then run around charging things.

Big Trakk: Don't own one :(
They are secondary trukks, but now too expensive

Blitzbommer: Not worth it honestly. Its just a dakkajet with less shooting and a bombing ability which realistically will be used once maybe twice if you are lucky which means you have a 50% chance to get D6 mortals on a single unit.

Snazzwagon: Don't own one

Burnabommer: same as blitza, slightly better and i emphasize SLIGHTLY.

Dakkajet: Best of the planes but its just not that killy and its price is too high.

Deffdread: Not terrible, not great, needs to drop about 20pts.

Deffkoptas: love them but they are too expensive, losing HALF their shots was a huge deal. A bit of love dmg wise and I think they would be worth it. Give them back 2D3 rokkitz and even give them a 10-20pt price bump and they might be competitive.

Gorkanaut: don't own one :(
kinda may sorta actually not bad? I think he could rapid ingress and cause a bad time in some games.

Grot tanks/mega: Dont own them besides 1 and its for show

Hunta Rig: Don't own one
This thing is cheap enough to seriously consider, it will die to most armies, so you'd want to bring a few of them, but you can afford it.

Kill Rig: too expensive, too weak with its dmg output. All its guns are basically useless except the wurrtower. And in CC it bounces off everything because AP-1 isn't good enough.

Killtank: Don't own one.
Take a good look at it, it's kind of fire

Killakanz: I ran a kanwall a few weeks back. It did surprisingly well...with that said, all of its ranged weapons are useless except the rokkit launcher and arguably the skorcha. They do draw a lot of fire but 5 wounds helps. If they went down 20-30pts they would be competitive.

KBB: Don't own one.

Mega dread: Don't own one.

Scrapjets: :( I have 3 but they are terrible right now. I'd rather take deffkoptas over this thing right now.
I agree, I've tried to force these guys and just often felt underwhelmed. I do like Rukka Trukks in certain matchups though.

Mek Gunz: Bread and butter baby. Ive been bringing bubblechukkas every week for a month, they are hilarious and they actually can do some dmg. I went one week where they overwatched and killed 2 enemy characters and an enemy unit, in the regular shooting phase they downed a monster and were the stars of the game for me. I had another week where they literally bounced off everything and were wiped out. Swingy as hell but I love them!

Meka-dread: don't own one.

Morkanaut: Not worth the price. hes heavily over priced. He requires a mek nearby to have a chance of hitting anything so realistically hes closer to 400pts than 300pts. Just not worth the investment.

Squigbuggy: Don't like the model don't own any.
Bringing 2 will change matchups. This is something that you cant do with any other unit. We don't really need the help vs eldar, but it is something that fundamentally changes deployment for your opponent when you bring these idiots. However, they will often do nothing in shooting. You're actually aiming to hurt things with their squig mines more than anything, so you have to use them midboard during turn 3-4-5. I think these guys are quite excellent if your list is built around needing their pressure (e.g. you want them to come to you, instead of running across the board)

Dragsta: Don't own one.
teleports every turn! SECONDARIES yay! Except the weirdboy does this job better for cheaper (this guy is more reliable though)

Stompa: Don't own one.

Wazbom: Don't own one.

Dedicated Transports:

Trukkz: Worth it every time. You can literally take 3 for less than the cost of a battlewagon and oh no you don't get as much pathetic shooting that never does anything.
i'm shocked you love trukks and not boyz, that's all I'm saying

Biggest note: I'm loving my squig heavy lists. I was able to kill Lion El'Johnson with bomb squigs one week and rammed a Boss on Squig as well as a squig riders unit straight into a Knight titan in another game where they one shot the knight. They are honestly carrying my lists at the moment.

**Vineheart01**

Not sure why people praise trukks THAT much. Their melee is hot garbage unless that wrecking ball gets uber lucky and they are vulnerable to medium weapons so they die pretty easy.
Their only strength is they allow boyz/nobz a cheap wheel to the midfield and Tankshock. That makes them good, but not spam them good since you cant use the strat on multiples.

The wagon's melee is nothing to scoff at. The guns may suck but the rolla still hurts like crazy. The main reason i used wagons in the past is still a thing today: once they dump off their load, theyre still a threat.

**Tomsug**

Semper, your ranking is great. You lack 1/3 of the units, but the rest is great. Thanks!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vineheart01 wrote:
Not sure why people praise trukks THAT much. Their melee is hot garbage unless that wrecking ball gets uber lucky and they are vulnerable to medium weapons so they die pretty easy.
Their only strength is they allow boyz/nobz a cheap wheel to the midfield and Tankshock. That makes them good, but not spam them good since you cant use the strat on multiples.

The wagon's melee is nothing to scoff at. The guns may suck but the rolla still hurts like crazy. The main reason i used wagons in the past is still a thing today: once they dump off their load, theyre still a threat.

Cheap first laysr of defence. Cheap transport and cheap roadblock. That is “all”

**Jidmah**

Yeah, a layer of defense that then goes on holding objectives and perform actions. You make your army extremely hard to kill and you get an extremely cheap and durable unit on top of it. If you ever need them to do damage, their tank shock is pretty good.

If ork win rates stay as they are, I'm fairly sure trukks will be the targeted of a slight nerf.

By the way, battlewagons work very similar in my experience. They might not be as efficient as trukks, but most armies struggle to even take down one without overextending into an army that will call the Waaagh! next turn. Even if the wagon dies, there usually is not enough firepower left to clear out the passengers.

In my case, it also helps that everyone and their dog tries to down the flash gitz wagon first, so I can absolutely bait my opponents into terrible decisions. Take with grain of salt though as my usual opponents are not anywhere near competitive levels (even if some think so

), and I tend to play narrative games against the actual great players.

**RedNoak**

I am trying a fun list next week. Lots of lootaz in battlewagons and meks to support them.

It's just a meme to my past lists in third edition, but I am really curious how much damage a fully shooting wagon with killkoannon etc loaded with lootaz and SAGs can do. I am not expecting much though

The list above seems about right. I would only add, that grot tanks are absolutely awesome. 150points for 5 rockits on a durable platform with a useful 'i am outta here' ability is nothing to scoff at

What's the current verdict on mozdrag Vs boss with hwkc?
Mozdrag is more durable due to the 4++ but what about hitting power? The additional dmg Vs vehicles got me often the kill. Especially
now since Dev wounds got somewhat nerfed Vs meq and geq

EDIT:
@trukks... The thing is no-one wants to dedicate precious firepower into empty trukks with a couple of wounds left. Once U got stuck in, the truck' s can roam free to do objectives and harass enemy troops. And like others said... It's tankshock hits reaaaally hard due to S10 of the wrecking ball

**Forceride**

moz is mostly a bullet sponge with some bite. the other is the true power house damage wise.

Take your pick, but i enjoy the damage one.

Also not sure their increasing trucks pts, it begs the question if they did why we have a worst profile yet costing as much as a rhino.

Also we are one the armies that received the least amount of changes. Chances are that when they start peddling back some of the nerfs our win rate will decrease again.
It's a case of, we are better because everyone got worst.

**Beardedragon**

Had a 5 game GT, though only with 20 people attending. I ended up with a 6th place out of the 20, losing 2 matches. 1 match i could have won, but it snowballed out of control due to incidents, and the other was simply a close game. There was also another Ork player who was.. last. His list werent even that bad so im not sure what he was doing. Ouch.

List below:

Spoiler:

Over all, im pleased with the list. I do sense the lack of fast units that can grab an objective early, in case i need to deploy a teleport homer, or take a tempted target. Something like that. But i build the entire list around the idea, of smashing up my enemy. And it did that really really well. Absolute Krumping time.

While ghaz is slow, Ere we go! really helped him out a lot, and he krumped a good deal of enemies. The Mega Nobz (twin killsaws) with Warboss in mega armor, also surprisingly did a lot, however, the Hunta rig kinda suffered. I only picked it because i wanted another big piece of threat, that could be a transport. I wanted to see if Hunta rigs were really that bad, and it kinda.. is. The things I wanted to attack and killed, barely just died, if it even did. I wanted to see what it did and test it out, and it just werent really that great.

Although it helps a lot that i got turn 1 in 4 games out of 5. But i think even with turn 2, most of the games would be winnable as well, as we had pretty dense terrain.

Anyway, hot takes on games:

game 1 vs necrons = win
Bunch of necron dudes and C'tan and some lych guards etc. The Lych guards were krumped by a mixture of Ghaz and his mega nobz + Squighog boys. Hunta rig was killed by C'tan when i charged him. Sigh.

Won with 100 points.

Game 2 vs Chaos = lost
Faced off against one of the danish national team players, who is a good sport. even though i lost, i could have won the game. It really came down to one small issue that really snowballed my game out of propotions, to my opponents favor. Ghaz was meant to do a 4 inch charge in to obliterators, which he failed. Losing me the 1 CP (had to reroll my charge) i needed to give my Nobz with powerklaws +5 critical hits for their sustained hits +5 and +5 lethal hits. This meant i now didnt have enough damage output to chew through the massive accursed cultist mob, which in turn got my Nobz killed. Now his accursed cultists were alive and kept regenerating, and my Nobz were dead. After the accursed cultists were dead, i should have consolidated on to my enemys Rhino that had 10 legionnaires, to surround it with Nobz and Ghaz, but that now didnt happen. Which would have resulted in him taking emergency disembark.

So all in all, ghaz losing that charge, really snowballed the game, the wrong way. It was easy to see where the game was lost. But if he had done it, i would definitely have won the game.

Oh and the hunta rig was killed by the obliterators turn 1 that shot without line of sight. Yay for the lack of invulnerable saves on Hunta rigs.

Game 3: Imperial Knights = win
Not much to say. 2 big knights, and some smaller ones. turn 1, drive closer and behind ruins, getting ready to jump out. His turn 1, barely shoot anything. My battle round 2, waaagh called, ran out, killed off a few smaller knights, with Ghaz hiding near the middle objective, ready to krump. He came on to the middle with large knights round 3, Ghaz went out, destroyed it. Big win.

Game 4: Imperial Guard = Win
Cadia did, in fact, not stand that day. Lots of big guns, but also a well made WTC stage with dense terrain. I had turn 1, moved up getting ready to jump out. As we ork players do. Round 2, propell the entire army out of transports and kill as many things as possible. This is the game my hunta rig actually survived and killed something. It killed Basilisk in close combat, over 2 turns.

Yay..

Game 5: Iron Hands = Loss
Sadly i did not get turn 1 in this game, which meant he moved blocked my squighog boys and Ghaz, and a trukk, with some infiltrator dudes. My hunta rig also died turn 1. I also fethed it up by forgetting to charge my squighogs in to the move blockers, and only declaring some snagga boys which failed to kill the target. Even though it had a character, and i had assassinate, netting me 1 round where i did not score the assassinate point. I was tired, just a feth up really. But i got out, was still semi hidden. But my Nobz went in to the wrong target with too much toughness and didnt kill it, and Ghaz unit was down to only him, so no makari lethal hits buff. over all, a gak bucket of shots from my opponent, some borderlining OP'ness but sure. It ended with an 80-72 score so i was still happy. Nobz, Boys and Mega Nobz in my opponents home objective in his deployment zone always looks good.

Over all im happy with the result, but i think i need to change out the Hunta rig. I was hoping The Rig would perform as another yet tough and hard hitting brick but it doesnt really do that. And by having the Hunta rig i had to forgo +2 movement on my Warboss leading the Nobz. So hunta rig is definitely out.

But yea, great tournament.

**Afrodactyl**

Well done on your result BD, sounds like your only losses were down to RNG rather than anything else.

I'm still on the on the all-squig bandwagon, but is anyone trying anything new or interesting?

**Beardedragon**

Afrodactyl wrote:
Well done on your result BD, sounds like your only losses were down to RNG rather than anything else.

I'm still on the on the all-squig bandwagon, but is anyone trying anything new or interesting?

seems like a fella did really well with a 20 man blob in a battlewagon i believe, with a warboss and a Nob with Waaghbanner.

Seems like an interesting turn 1 thing, or turn 3 after the waaagh had dissipated.

A Nob with waaghbanner can use his power from a transport, yes?

**tneva82**

Unit inside transport can do nothing, can't be affected and isn't on board so measuring doesn't work.

Not sure on banner so maybe none of restrictions apply?

**Vineheart01**

i swear they said you could this go around, but even looking it up nope i see it in the Rules Commentary that explicitly units embarked cannot do anything unless stated otherwise
Realistically you're probably gonna call the BannerWAAGH the turn following normal Waaagh anyway.

**Afrodactyl**

So I mentioned my Squig list a few posts ago, and I feel like it's always good to share with the group for better or worse. I've actually kind of gone out of my way to nerf my previous list slightly, with my thought process being future proofing rather than being ultra competitive. My idea being that I have 50 points of wiggle room through some enhancements, so unless the bulk of my list gets a points increase, I should be fine come the next field manual.

It's kind of a fluffy list anyway with a lot of conversions to make things Squiggy that aren't normally, but winning about 40% of the time is still pretty nice. The list is still holding its own despite me taking a few suboptimal choices, and I've basically abandoned the idea of the shooting phase. Unfortunately some of the converted stuff (and the brick of resin that is the Squiggoth) have become kind of non-negotiable in my head because of all the money and effort put in; I haven't the heart to leave them on the shelf

List is in spoilers for anyone that cares to look, anything converted to fit my "squig-related" criteria is marked with a *. If you're curious about them let me know and I'll go into detail.

Spoiler:

**Jidmah**

How is that deff dread working out for you? Is it actually ever getting into combat?

I feel like mine always soaks a ton of shooting and dies turn 1, and I'm not sure if I'm ok with that.

**Afrodactyl**

Jidmah wrote:
How is that deff dread working out for you? Is it actually ever getting into combat?

I feel like mine always soaks a ton of shooting and dies turn 1, and I'm not sure if I'm ok with that.

It comes and goes. Generally speaking if I deploy it on the board it dies turn 1, unless my Trukks and Follow Me Hogs unit make some decent charges. Depending on the match up, it dying immediately can be a good thing, but sometimes it sponges a silly amount of firepower and means my hogs and Squigboss get across the board relatively unscathed.

I tend to put it in reserves alongside my Squiggoth full of Nobz and have it come in turn 2 or 3 to cause chaos, where they generally do well.

Wave 1 tends to be Trukks and Follow Me Hogs, wave 2 is the rest of the hogs, the Squigboss and the Deffkoptas. The Squiggoth, Nobz and Dread tend to be either wave 2 or wave 3 if I need something a bit beefy on turn 3.

**RedNoak**

Single weirdboy for teleporting and doing actions or provide additional OC is actually really good

Can hide better than stormboyz and can jump every turn wherever he wants. Really a underappreciated use case

**Beardedragon**

Hmm. I was hoping one could use the waagh banner from inside the transport, so you could mini waaagh, and then run out of the transport.

But i also havent looked in to it, as i didnt intend to play around with the idea just yet.

**Afrodactyl**

RedNoak wrote:
Single weirdboy for teleporting and doing actions or provide additional OC is actually really good

Can hide better than stormboyz and can jump every turn wherever he wants. Really a underappreciated use case

He's a godsend for the points game, honestly. 100% my preferred take over stormboys, bikers or moar Grots. I only put the Cybork body on it as I had spare points and it fits with my future proofing plan. I probably wouldn't say it's worth it otherwise.

**Forceride**

Great idea with weird boy! might try it out in a game. Was looking for a unit like that.