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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Rokkits.
Its not that easy to spam rokkits in one unit since tankbustas suck balls right now but its fairly easy to just have rokkits sprinkled everywhere.

It's incredibly easy to spam rokkits in one place.

You just need to use Grot Tanks. Each one can be armed with rokkits & the leader can have a 2nd rokkit.
They come in units of 4/8. So that's 5-9 rokkits, all hitting on 4+ (because grot) from one squad.
You can have 3 squads.

What's that? Your going to complain that grot tanks are FW & are sold out atm?
Good news! Grot Tanks are easy & fun to scratch build for relatively cheap!

i mean personally i have a 3D printer so i dont care about things being sold out.
But, generally right now if you dont already have the FW model you really should not get any. They keep getting sent to legends on a whim, and while i dont care about legends (since nobody that cares i have printed models would care about legends) majority of people do care.
I actually have a squad of grot tanks with KMBs. Unfortunately, KMBs suck right now....they need their extra AP back to justify the hazardous.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean personally i have a 3D printer so i dont care about things being sold out.
But, generally right now if you dont already have the FW model you really should not get any. They keep getting sent to legends on a whim, and while i dont care about legends (since nobody that cares i have printed models would care about legends) majority of people do care.
I actually have a squad of grot tanks with KMBs. Unfortunately, KMBs suck right now....they need their extra AP back to justify the hazardous.

Especially as the Megablasta on Grot tanks for some reason only got 2 shots and not 3 like the one spannas are wielding... Grot tanks also give up "bring it down" fairly easy - 8 VP for a 155 points unit that is rather squishy doesn't seem to be a good deal, especially since most ork lists are rather character-heavy; so if you include some trukks and the squigboss, your enemy has decent chance of maxing assassinate and BiD as fixed secondaries...

Bossdoc wrote:
I had severe problems dealing with 2x10 DW Knights in a recent RTT. 4 W, 4++, -1 D is really nasty, especially paired with armour of contempt. I threw Mozrog, 10 Nobs w/ Warboss and 10 Beastsnaggas w. beastboss at them, which helped to get rid of one block over 2 fight phases, but after that, the second Blob was there and destroyed the nobs and Mozrog... Flash Gitz are inefficient because of damage reduction, everything with AP 2 or less is bad because with cover and AoC, they are still saving at 2+... Don't see anything except swamping them in 1000 points of melee heavy hitters, if you build your army like that...

I don't recall any weapon profile that can handle that profile efficiently, unless you bring mass choppas. Do remember that those bricks are usually slow and expensive, and require tons of support. So the other option is, you can provide roadblocks but avoid giving him charges to decrease movement, you can also handle his support and ignore the bricks, he can't be everywhere. You can also delay one and deal with the other, while you delay pelt it with everything you got causing attrition, really depends what is your approach and the rest of the list. Or if our like me, everything crumbles under mass attacks, but this is better with ranged weapons.

Bossdoc wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean personally i have a 3D printer so i dont care about things being sold out.
But, generally right now if you dont already have the FW model you really should not get any. They keep getting sent to legends on a whim, and while i dont care about legends (since nobody that cares i have printed models would care about legends) majority of people do care.
I actually have a squad of grot tanks with KMBs. Unfortunately, KMBs suck right now....they need their extra AP back to justify the hazardous.

Especially as the Megablasta on Grot tanks for some reason only got 2 shots and not 3 like the one spannas are wielding... Grot tanks also give up "bring it down" fairly easy - 8 VP for a 155 points unit that is rather squishy doesn't seem to be a good deal, especially since most ork lists are rather character-heavy; so if you include some trukks and the squigboss, your enemy has decent chance of maxing assassinate and BiD as fixed secondaries...

forget the blastas on grot tanks, just use rockits. i dont think they are squishy at all. T6 W5 and a 3+ save... they also have a reactive 6" move to get away from charges or to reposition behind cover. on the plus side... if something is shooting at your gretchin, they arent shooting at your trukks, squigs or manz. its a win/win

as far as FW stuff goes... as long as its available go for it. i have a custom build chinork i use as a trukk now. if it happens it happens nothing you can do about. but grot tanks are rather cheap to scratch build, there are tons of youtube vids and i've posted a amazon link somewhere, where you can buy 4 comic WWII tanks with lots of details for 10 bucks. took myself a weekend to build and paint em

Bossdoc wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean personally i have a 3D printer so i dont care about things being sold out.
But, generally right now if you dont already have the FW model you really should not get any. They keep getting sent to legends on a whim, and while i dont care about legends (since nobody that cares i have printed models would care about legends) majority of people do care.
I actually have a squad of grot tanks with KMBs. Unfortunately, KMBs suck right now....they need their extra AP back to justify the hazardous.

Especially as the Megablasta on Grot tanks for some reason only got 2 shots and not 3 like the one spannas are wielding... Grot tanks also give up "bring it down" fairly easy - 8 VP for a 155 points unit that is rather squishy doesn't seem to be a good deal, especially since most ork lists are rather character-heavy; so if you include some trukks and the squigboss, your enemy has decent chance of maxing assassinate and BiD as fixed secondaries...

T6 W5 sv3+ x4 models(at minimum) at mv10 + a reaction move -- you've an odd idea of the definition of squishy.
Oh, and they're vehicles. So if you're inclined you can heal them with a Mek.

On giving up Bring It Down:
Well, personally, I play a Grot army. Other than the Red Gobbo & 3 squads of foot Grethin, guess what every other Grot unit has in common? The vehicle KY.
I play? My deployment zone is stuffed with vehicles. I assume I'm giving up BID. I compensate for this by making the opposing force dead. Starting on turn 1 with whatever's most suited to harm my Grot Tanks.

On any weapon, in any force, being Hazardous in this edition:
Pfft.
It's a 1/6 chance. Wich means I'll be fine 5 times out of 6. I like those odds.

ccs wrote:

On any weapon, in any force, being Hazardous in this edition:
Pfft.
It's a 1/6 chance. Wich means I'll be fine 5 times out of 6. I like those odds.

i dont get the appeal of megablastas on grottanks.
the only difference between rockits and blastas are d3 vs 2 shots and flat 3dmg vs D6. I personally prefer the Flat 3dmg. plus rockits get blast, so vastly better vs heavy infantry, GEQ and MEQ's

for 4 tanks you roll FIVE hazardous tests... so you basically loose 2 wounds per turn

IF it were d3 vs flat 3 shots... there would be some competition. but as it stands, blastas are VIABLE but rockits are vastly superior

Hazardous kills the KMB imo.

3 shots vs D3+Blast
Both S9, AP2
D6 vs flat3 damage
Hazardous

Since it doesnt have better AP, the Hazardous combined with potential bad damage rolls makes it iffy as it is...add on 1/6 chance to nuke myself? pass....hard pass....
(This is ignoring that for some reason Grot Tanks have 2 shot Kmbs but still D3 rokkits)

Even if youre gonna do something cheeky like give a dread 4x guns and have a mek follow him, i'd take the 4x rokkits WAY before the 4x kmbs.

RedNoak wrote:

ccs wrote:

On any weapon, in any force, being Hazardous in this edition:
Pfft.
It's a 1/6 chance. Wich means I'll be fine 5 times out of 6. I like those odds.

i dont get the appeal of megablastas on grottanks.
the only difference between rockits and blastas are d3 vs 2 shots and flat 3dmg vs D6. I personally prefer the Flat 3dmg. plus rockits get blast, so vastly better vs heavy infantry, GEQ and MEQ's

Suit yourself.
I rather like the potential to completely saw heavy vehicles, monsters, & Knights in half with a single volley of KMB shots. That's why I've chosen the KMBs. Sure, it's d6 damage. And some of those rolls will be a 1 or 2. But odds are I'm doing 3+ damage. I'm perfectly happy to gamble on rolling a 1 or 2 for the potential to roll a 5 or 6.
I've yet to have any real problem deleting heavy infantry.

I also built my Grot tanks last edition where the rules for KMB were different and I'm not going to tear models I like apart to chase the current meta.

RedNoak wrote:
for 4 tanks you roll FIVE hazardous tests... so you basically loose 2 wounds per turn

Well, no. First of all? Any rolls of 1 = 3mw. 2nd? I have a 5/6 chance per dice roll of being perfectly fine. Most times I've taken no damage this edition. Like I said, I like those odds.

You want to play it safe? Take rokkits. You want to gamble for a better result? Then use the KMB.

You get an average of .5 more damage per failed save with KMB over Rokkits. And that only against targets with enough wounds to matter.

Against MEQ? They're offensively worse shot per shot than Rokkits.
Gravis? Same thing.
Hordes? Not even close thanks to Blast, though at least equal on a shot-to-shot basis.

Put another way, to average 7 damage to a Rokkit Tank's 6 against a Knight, you'd need just under a max Grot Tank squad, with the two bonus weapons.

Whereas I’m delighted to have spurred such a lengthy and lively debate over grot tanks of all things, I’m sorry to see ccs taking such flak over your choice of load out as either way you’ve inspired me to get out the plasticard and get down to some serious scratchbuilding.

ccs wrote:

Well, no. First of all? Any rolls of 1 = 3mw. 2nd? I have a 5/6 chance per dice roll of being perfectly fine. Most times I've taken no damage this edition. Like I said, I like those odds.

Min squad of 4 will overheat 60% times. Squad of 8 80% times. Plus chances of multiples.

So 60% times you will take at least 3 MW with minimum squad.

So I would say either you take damage most of the time...or you are using faulty dice that roll less 1's than average. For sake of fairness in that case buy new ones.

It's not probably going to decide game either way which you take but if GW was aiming for actual balance there should be something to balance things out. Even without hazardous blast is bigger buff than 0.5 damage buff.

 Gulgog TufToof wrote:
Whereas I’m delighted to have spurred such a lengthy and lively debate over grot tanks of all things, I’m sorry to see ccs taking such flak over your choice of load out as either way you’ve inspired me to get out the plasticard and get down to some serious scratchbuilding.

Naahhh it's not Flak. It's a discussion.
Mathematically rockits are superior, but I get the appeal of wasting a tank with some lucky rolls (or stomp my own with unlucky rolls )

Shame thought that they don't get 3 shots like any other kmb. Well, at least rockits are not heavy so there's that

Doubt d6 weapons from orks will ever be competitive option unless they increase shots or give it +1 to d

More than anything else, given how most FW kits are going the way of the dodo over time, I'm hoping something as flavourful as Grot Tanks get ported over to the mainstream codex (probably as some overly wordy trademarked name replacement) now that they've beast snaggas have had their wave. Given their focus on the Red Gobbo on the past few years, it wouldn't be surprising for me if they did a bit of a mini Grot Revolushun wave of new grot units given we haven't had a new kit dedicated to them since Mek Gunz.

Honestly.... I don't think so.
Red gobbo is a funny running Gag. He gets a new model every Christmas.

We got buggy and beastsnaggaz, doubtful that any meaningful release will come. Still fingers crossed for nazdreg though. He could any deepstrike any unit in third edition, had a 3+ BS and a powerful megablasta.

Of course I would be glad to get new rules for minisquigoth, grottanks or looted wagons... But yeah... I doubt it.


@topic... Ran double squigboss today. Mozdrag and regular one with hwkc... Not really competitive, but fun as heck. Each of em ate like 6 Lances and withstood heavy wraithguard fire. Regular one was dropped by a desperately charging ravager

Also tried snaggaz in trukks again... Very useful. But personally I still like warboss+nobz more. Better Vs vehicle heavy lists and 35points cheaper

Just had the second encounter with DG, a draw at 63-63, Weirdboyz's at clutch play prevented defeat. Squigbuggy and scrapjet were a disappointment. I am considering shock dragsta and deffkoptas. At least the dragsta makes it dangerous for character + the teleport allows for scoring points. Not so sure for defkoptas but at least they can get some nice guns on the field + more wounds and OC.

Flashgitz were amazing , 8 wounds to a warhound while inside a truck, 10 to a plague crawler even when 4 of them down and not receiving the extra hits bonus. Incridible unit. Tempted to bring a second squad on a truck.

I had a meme list game with a Dred Mob since I was kind of getting bored playing with the current Ork meta list, it was against Eldar as well and although I did end up losing by T4, I was able to keep up surprisingly well in points (if not in models, Killa Kanz die like flies) up until that time, so I'm wondering what you guys think would be needed in a Dred Mob detachment that we (hopefully) will be receiving in our codex at some point. I know strats are a big part, since vehicle heavy lists are DOA because we basically get to use little to none of our current WAAAGH! Tribe strats on them. Would having the detachment give units with the WALKERZ keyword something like additional movement on advancing/charging make the difference, I think mobility and lack of meaningful ranged damage is a key weakness in Dred Mob lists at the moment, so I feel having a Tellyporta strat or relic that let's you either deep strike pre-game or teleport a walker during a match would help a lot in terms of making them viable. I think they'd have to reconsider Big Meks as support units as well at some level, because as it is, none of them barring the regular Mek actually synergizes with them since they can't join their units and their weapons/auras don't do anything for them.

@Grimskul
Yeah I'll be very interested in how they do a Dredd Waaargh detachment. You are right about the big meks and it would be ace if meks were actually able to join walkerz mobs. Also would be good to bring back the dredd mob so you can have 3 x deff dredds and a mek who buffs them all. Agree with the rest of your post as well. My biggest hope though, is for a rule, probably a strat, that lets them walk through walls, like chaos knights get. Except instead of turning spectral, we just imagine the wall getting smashed to bits. It's all ruins anyway!

 PaddyMick wrote:
@Grimskul
Yeah I'll be very interested in how they do a Dredd Waaargh detachment. You are right about the big meks and it would be ace if meks were actually able to join walkerz mobs. Also would be good to bring back the dredd mob so you can have 3 x deff dredds and a mek who buffs them all. Agree with the rest of your post as well. My biggest hope though, is for a rule, probably a strat, that lets them walk through walls, like chaos knights get. Except instead of turning spectral, we just imagine the wall getting smashed to bits. It's all ruins anyway!

Yeah, a kool aid man strat to deal with terrain would be sick. Parking lot syndrome is a real issue for a lot of our walker units trying to get stuck in with the enemy.

Haven't posted in a while but I have been playing quite a bit. There are some quirks about 10th but overall in our playgroup it's been pretty well received. I've been doing other armies competitively once to thrice a week but I have really been enjoying Orks in Crusade, and the green tide has been serving me well in small point games . Boyz and Lootas have been a staple with either a Painboy or Warboss to lead the pack in 500-750pt games. Lootas on OW against a unit on an objective has been fantastic in more games than I can count

For the crusade players out there, what are your thoughts on the Weapon Modification battle honor? I have a unit of 10 Lootas who are ready for an upgrade and I would love to improve one of my deffguns, but the wording about "Unit Champion" makes me worried I may have to throw the modification on the Spanner instead, although I really wouldn't consider them a champion the same way a SM Sergeant or Eldar Exarch is.

 Grimskul wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
@Grimskul
Yeah I'll be very interested in how they do a Dredd Waaargh detachment. You are right about the big meks and it would be ace if meks were actually able to join walkerz mobs. Also would be good to bring back the dredd mob so you can have 3 x deff dredds and a mek who buffs them all. Agree with the rest of your post as well. My biggest hope though, is for a rule, probably a strat, that lets them walk through walls, like chaos knights get. Except instead of turning spectral, we just imagine the wall getting smashed to bits. It's all ruins anyway!

Yeah, a kool aid man strat to deal with terrain would be sick. Parking lot syndrome is a real issue for a lot of our walker units trying to get stuck in with the enemy.

Having walkers burst through terrain would be a fun universal strat in my opinion.

ccs wrote:

What's that? Your going to complain that grot tanks are FW & are sold out atm?
Good news! Grot Tanks are easy & fun to scratch build for relatively cheap!

Anyone have any links to some nice conversions for Grot Tanks? I'd love to see what people have put together.

I'm pretty sure that weapon upgrades have to go on the spannas.

While they aren't exarchs (few unit leaders are), they are for sure the more experienced boyz leading a bunch of rank and file ladz to where the best loot is to be had.

And let's face it, if you are really honest with yourself, you don't want to update a deff gun for narrative reasons.

i think a proper dreadmob needs more than just a detachment rule.
Our dreads arent super tough, only medium killy, slow, and also we dont have many of them. Unless they start folding FW into normal codexes (doubtful) we have killakanz, deffdreads, and nauts.
Killakanz are actually shockingly good when you just have a squad of 3 of them sneaking up to a midfield objective. People have a weird habit of thinking their melee is bad....it aint lol....
I think for a proper dreadmob to work we both need a new, deffdread-level walker (oversized back-mounted cannon anyone?) and the detachment needs to give mobility and damage reduction.
like, how about a "Racin' on Foot" rule where if a walkerz model is within 6" of a wheeled vehicle it gets +4" movement because its trying to race the trukk/buggy lol...

My issue with the dread mob is all their models are overcosted point wise.. deffdread at 130? Kans 150? nah.

Btw anyone had any successes with lootas?

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm pretty sure that weapon upgrades have to go on the spannas.

While they aren't exarchs (few unit leaders are), they are for sure the more experienced boyz leading a bunch of rank and file ladz to where the best loot is to be had.

And let's face it, if you are really honest with yourself, you don't want to update a deff gun for narrative reasons.

I don't see anything wrong narratively with beating my opponent, taking their dakka and strapping it to mine for a bigger and better deffgun

But yeah Spanners are close enough to a champion so I'll have to decide if I want +1 BS and +1 AP on the KMB or +1 BS and +1 A

Forceride wrote:
My issue with the dread mob is all their models are overcosted point wise.. deffdread at 130? Kans 150? nah.

Btw anyone had any successes with lootas?

I ran 30x Lootas in a 2000pt game along with some Mek Guns before the price hike and they were very enjoyable to use. The full reroll vs targets on objectives with overwatch is fantastic IMO. It entirely depends on your battlefield though because if your LOS is poor and you need to move the Lootas become much worse very quickly.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i think a proper dreadmob needs more than just a detachment rule.
Our dreads arent super tough, only medium killy, slow, and also we dont have many of them. Unless they start folding FW into normal codexes (doubtful) we have killakanz, deffdreads, and nauts.
Killakanz are actually shockingly good when you just have a squad of 3 of them sneaking up to a midfield objective. People have a weird habit of thinking their melee is bad....it aint lol....
I think for a proper dreadmob to work we both need a new, deffdread-level walker (oversized back-mounted cannon anyone?) and the detachment needs to give mobility and damage reduction.
like, how about a "Racin' on Foot" rule where if a walkerz model is within 6" of a wheeled vehicle it gets +4" movement because its trying to race the trukk/buggy lol...

damage and/or speed and resistance. Exactly.

Our army generaly lacks the “hard nuts” units. Walkers could fill this position and I can imagine custodian like gameplans about it.
But the resistance needs to be combined with fine shooting (say hallo to rokkit kans) or melee+fast move.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

I ran 30x Lootas in a 2000pt game along with some Mek Guns before the price hike and they were very enjoyable to use. The full reroll vs targets on objectives with overwatch is fantastic IMO. It entirely depends on your battlefield though because if your LOS is poor and you need to move the Lootas become much worse very quickly.

Lootas only get rerolls to1 on points? Or did i miss something? Maybe your confusing flashgitz with barduk? 30units is a lot of commitment to be useful, that's 300pts. I am looking more on the 100pts ballpark, maybe 150. Maybe you can describe your experience? Flashgitz tend to make around like 10w~8w on a turn of shooting. i am looking for something efficient for points since i do not have the mek gunz

Forceride wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

I ran 30x Lootas in a 2000pt game along with some Mek Guns before the price hike and they were very enjoyable to use. The full reroll vs targets on objectives with overwatch is fantastic IMO. It entirely depends on your battlefield though because if your LOS is poor and you need to move the Lootas become much worse very quickly.

Lootas only get rerolls to1 on points? Or did i miss something? Maybe your confusing flashgitz with barduk? 30units is a lot of commitment to be useful, that's 300pts. I am looking more on the 100pts ballpark, maybe 150. Maybe you can describe your experience? Flashgitz tend to make around like 10w~8w on a turn of shooting. i am looking for something efficient for points since i do not have the mek gunz

Lootas reroll hit rolls of 1 natively.
But, if their target is on an objective, they reroll all hit rolls.

Damn.. maybe their better then I initially thought..

The only issue with lootas is the issue theyve had for a long time, theyre super squishy and putting them in a trukk usually confers some sort of penalty.
In a trukk, no rerolls to hit, which hurts badly.
Out of a trukk, theyre just boyz (presumably in terrain but still boyz).

The only reason the Spannas are annoying imo is their good gun is 24" in an immobile unit, so it rarely has a juicy target. But when it does, remember they ALSO get the reroll to hit since its not tied to the deffgun.

At least in this edition theyre not ridiculously expensive.