Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Btw anyone else noted that rokkits went 1S up?

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Current version of the article doesn't have support on the datasheet. Probably because they said support units must be attached, and they've explicitly said that this can also be taken solo.

I imagine it's going to be like the Invader ATV and you can take it either solo or as part of a Warbikes unit datasheet.

Either way the outcome is the same, but semantics.

Changed from this morning. Thought I was losing my mind.

I thought support units were only characters though.

I just wanted to express happiness that the Wartrakk has a Nob on the back.

Not a boy. A Nob.

Ork datasheets are out for the new Warboss and other leaders/support units:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/uwdimgen/new40k-rules-da-biggest-and-best-orks-in-da-box/

Things to note:

-Warboss Big Choppa (Now Kustom Choppa) got buffed significantly. It's now AP-2 versus AP-1. It gained Cleave AND an extra attack for a total of 6.

- Bigboss is pretty underwhelming, the main selling point is the Sustained Hits 1, which seems to imply War Horde will be changed significantly as a detachment, if not outright removed, which kind of sucks. Not great as a non-support character

- Banner Nob is basically our new KFF, giving a 5+ invuln to their whole unit. Notable that he can join ranged units and not just the typical Nob, Boy, and Breaka Boy units. Might be okay in a Flash Git unit if you want protection? Hard to say if it'll be worth it though, depends on their price point.

- Weirdboy and Painboy looks pretty similar to what they are now at first glance. Overall, seems like the Warboss is the one who got the largest notable glow up.

BigBoss getting a charge bonus is the most interesting thing there.

Big Boss looks fine. It's pretty much what I expect from a Nob+ type unit, especially when it's pretty much just armed with a Big Choppa with a few extra attacks. +1 to charge and sustained hits is nice, assuming that War Horde is going away/getting changed.

Banner Nob looks good. +1 T, a 5++ and +6 OC looks like it will be really nice on Nobz or Breaka Boys. They both already clean house in the damage department, durability and OC is where they fall a bit flat.

Weirdboy and Painboy are the same from what I can see.

Warboss is tasty. Absolute blender against basically all forms of infantry. Also gives hope that PKs are going up to AP-3 or D3.

War Horde may be changed - but not entirely following the argument that just because its a detachment option, no Ork character should ever give sustained hits. There are after all plenty of other detachments you could take.

My thoughts on the Big Boss have gone "that kind of sucks"->"maybe"->"I think you might be trying too hard".

+1 to charge has to do a lot of carrying given you could just take a Warboss whose had a bit of a glow up. Okay if the Warboss has gone up a bunch of points there's more space but if the warboss is still 75-80 points its a tough one. I'm sure people will try Big Boss+Weirdboy+Boyz blob to da Jump around but it could be nearly 300 points and hard to see it having enough impact.

Of the datasheets, only the banner and the doc have the support type.

IIRC you can have one leader, and one support attached to a squad.

As both the big boss and weirdboy are full leader, you can’t have both in the same squad.

To be fair, I had the same thought at first glance, as it sounded like fun!

 Nevelon wrote:
As both the big boss and weirdboy are full leader, you can’t have both in the same squad.

Yeah you are right. I misread the weirdboy as support like the previous two. Since its leader that's out.
(Or they've changed it a few minutes after it dropped - but probably me misreading.)

I think we'll have to see how the Nob dataslate and points cost shakes out. In particular, we need to see what they end up with in terms of base profile and base points cost, and how much it's going to cost to outfit them with Power Klaws. I don't think 21 points is going to be a great starting point for them if they are stripped of the Power Klaws and end up having to spend points on them. If their baseline cost includes a Big Choppa, people might just end up taking those. If the Power Klaw upgrade is poorly costed, it could make the unit have a lot less output as a scalpel, especially if the PK retains the same profile as it does now.

The Banner Nob ironically seems like a bad companion for Nobz, having a S4 weapon profile for some reason and the +1 T seems to be of dubious value with Da Boss's Lads post-nerf. It's only -1 to wound if the strength exceeds the unit's toughness value, meaning it would now only trigger above S7 during the Waaagh. The toughness buff scales negatively with Da Boss's Lads. It also inherently scales badly with a Warboss as it gets less value out of +1 to hit than a Painboy would. I don't know how appealing overall this unit is compared to just taking a painboy.

That said, Nobz can now take painboy and a warboss which could make them more interesting depending on points value.

Maybe it will be more interesting to see what characters end up having the leader and support keyword. For example, Big Meks, or Ghazghkull Thraka. Could we potentially see a Support joining Ghazghkull? Or will named characters be blocked? Could you potentially combine a Meganobz unit with a MA Big Mek and a MA Warboss? Will Big Meks have Leader, so they can't be combined with Bosses? These are the questions that are still open and yet could be meta defining based on keywords.

Haven't gone through the whole test games yet, but they more or less said all the generalist detachments will be 3DP, and dreadmob was 2DP.

There might be good reasons to not run war horde in the future.

I bet it has something to do with avoiding unexpectedly broken combos, but it feels very strange to have the Weirdboy as a full-blown leader.

Adamantium Dodecahedron wrote:
I bet it has something to do with avoiding unexpectedly broken combos, but it feels very strange to have the Weirdboy as a full-blown leader.

With his current datasheet, for sure. Rumours are that what they've shown is to align with what the current codex has in terms of their profiles (which is why the Painboy and Weirdboy are basically the exact same in terms of rules barring a few naming/wording changes) and they might revise it to be a bit different in the new 11th ed codex. Hopefully the Weirdboy will be support by then or at the very least beefier in terms of ability/profile to warrant being a standalone leader.

Auspex did a summary on the demo games:



For orks, there are quite some important changes, especially coherency, emergency disembarking and how hiding works. Units of 20 are going to be very undesirable.

The one that stood out to me most, was the change on how you get cover - every single model has to be in cover, otherwise the unit does not get the benefit of cover.
For one, this means that you can expect to actually shoot infantry units out of cover, which makes the dakkarig look a lot more interesting.
It also means that you need to take care to not leave a single boy behind. If you can't quite fit all those bases behind a ruin, they aren't just not obscured, they also don't get cover.
6 Warbikers joined by wartrike and halftrakk might as well not bother cover at all.

Having your units in the right place will be quite the learning curve.

Had some fun games last weekend, one of which was MSU Orks vs necrons. Managed a close victory (the best kind!), and it got me wondering if anyone has a "base mix" of units they throw into every list before adding more?

I had several instances in other games with less units where the secondary missions needed actions, so I'm thinking what I can put in the army as a foundation for mission-getting, and then worry about krumping with the rest of it. Considering 3 units of grots and a trukk; 1 unit sits the home objective, one footslogs to the closest, and the third is in the trukk going for a further objective. The CP are useful, and the trukk grots can go pick up other objectives or missions fairly easily. If the enemy shoots them, that's shots not directed at the main army.

I know we're not far off a new edition, but what do people do for this?

 some bloke wrote:
Had some fun games last weekend, one of which was MSU Orks vs necrons. Managed a close victory (the best kind!), and it got me wondering if anyone has a "base mix" of units they throw into every list before adding more?

I sure do.
My list always starts with:
●Whatever the current Red Gobbo model is,
●3 4x units of Grot Tanks
●3 10x grot units
●3 Trucks - for the Grots

●The Red Gobbo leads the army**.
●The Grot Tanks do the bulk of the fighting.
●The Grot trucks take objectives, do actions, provide harassing fire & tank shocks as needed.
1 truck is always put into reserve.
I dont need alot of CP in this force so typically only 1 Grot squad dismounts onto an objective- unless there's actions that need doing.

After this I fill in the rest of the points with other Grot KW stuff, 1 Wazbomb, & 2x Grot bomb launchers.
The Waz & Launchers arent Grot keyworded. The launcher is there because even without the KW its dead on theme. The Waz is a holdover from 9e Crusade - to make use of most of my Crusade content I needed something with the Mek KW.
It no longer gas even that keyword, but its proven effective & I like aircraft....

*vehicles - trucks, Wazbombs, etc that are technically crewed by orks? The crew has been replaced by grot models.
There is only 1 actual ork model occasionally used in this force. See below.

**the only reason Red doesn't lead the army is if Crusade rules get in the way & i cant lead the force with an epic hero. In that case 1 Mega Armored Warboss (the one with the grot gunner) is added.

*** The runt herds, not being grot models, are not used. I threw them away back in 9e! As I'm not in tourneys no one cares that I'm technically 1 model short here in 10th.
Hey, its a Rebel Grot army - the Runt Herds didn't survive the uprising.

 some bloke wrote:
Had some fun games last weekend, one of which was MSU Orks vs necrons. Managed a close victory (the best kind!), and it got me wondering if anyone has a "base mix" of units they throw into every list before adding more?

Trukk+Tankbustas+5Flash Gitz
Beastboss+10 Beastsnaggas

Everything else varies depending on the detachment I play, which I change often.

Votann Faction Focus shared that the Mobile Keyword is a thing, particularly for our Squighog Boyz so they can move through Dense Terrain, so it looks like there will be specific units outside of Infantry, Beast, and Swarms that can Kool Aid Man through the sides of buildings now.

Some one generously provided a document listing most of all changes

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vlRuvuiy6YOOPLmYyLEUfcGVpGL56aWWMA4iWh18Yuw

Transports definitely feel like one of the biggest changes, which impacts us pretty strongly since we rely on Trukks a fair bit. I don't think it was super common to begin with, but 20 man Ork boy blobs in Battlewagons or Beast Snagga Boyz in Kill Rigs are going to be tough to consider taking vs just multi-wound models like Breaka Boyz or Nobz now that we take mortal wounds more often AND we take damage from transports exploding.

Core rules out.

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_01-06_warhammer40k_new40k_core_rules-was6fbu1ix-hfewhmxyiy.pdf?fbclid=IwdGRleASKm4pleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA8xNzM4NDc2NDI2NzAzNzAAAR6od_ijwcmtdn43iTHSluIghWIsqysDtaY2xSkejkbnzDpESxVIhcu6Jv3NWA_aem_g1fz8SqtmgCxazmNWd2NQQ

And nice Boyz datasheet there like an example. Do you see? Now the Nobz have just the Big Choppas =

1. Jidmah was agian right. Keep all the big choppa spruce left from Nobz, they come handy.
2. You definitely need new Nobz to have a working Boyz squads

That might just be from the starter set.
We won’t know for sure until the Codex drops.

Yeah, that's just the starter specific datasheet, I wouldn't use that as the baseline for the actual codex. We saw already that the box's datasheet for the Warboss that it doesn't include the Power Klaw which they've already showed in their alternate generic Warboss teaser and leaks still exists on the model. So Power Klaw Boyz Boss Nobz are definitely very likely to be an option given how iconic they are.

I for one will not be removing my powerklaws because GW decides that the iconic weapon should not exist anymore (if that turns out to be the case). That is a massive work.

I will simply use my Nobz with powerklaws but using the Big Choppa profile.

But should there be problems i do have as many big choppa kit bashed nobz and normal double choppa Nobz left overs from previous edition i guess.

If PKs aren't an option, no one will bat an eye when you use them as big choppas.

Just FYI: I will launch the new thread as soon as we have the full package: points, detachments and errata.

If there are no leaks, this should be the 20th.

 Jidmah wrote:
Just FYI: I will launch the new thread as soon as we have the full package: points, detachments and errata.

If there are no leaks, this should be the 20th.

Thanks for the heads up and appreciate you taking the initiative in setting up a new 11th ed thread! Truly the bosses of bosses.

Something fun I just realized while watching a summary video: Since leaders no longer leave their unit when it gets killed, a sole MA big mek can keep reviving his unit MANz (and maybe flash gits) even if they have been wiped out. Nice buff.

 Jidmah wrote:
Something fun I just realized while watching a summary video: Since leaders no longer leave their unit when it gets killed, a sole MA big mek can keep reviving his unit MANz (and maybe flash gits) even if they have been wiped out. Nice buff.

Would that also mean that a SAG mek in a unit of 0 lootas (all dead) still gets their rerolls against units on objectives?