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Could the Ork be Orkimedes?

 Jadenim wrote:
Probability on the “Redacted” slot being a Kroot codex?

The Kroot stuff is almost certainly coming with the Tau codex, seeing as that’s where Kroot are now and they’re also soon on the roadmap.

Tygre wrote:
Could the Ork be Orkimedes?

Nobody else can stay dead, so why not!

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Could the Ork be Orkimedes?

Nobody else can stay dead, so why not!

Father McGrath!?! I thought you were dead!

I was!

 Grimtuff wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Gonna go out on a limb here and say every single model shown there is a named character. Apart from Leviathan, they only showed named characters as part of GW's "watershed year".

I agree Nazdreg seems like a good bet for the Ork, that gun looks very Kustom Blasta X in appearance. That Kroot is a brand new character if this is the case.

Whoever that Ork is, it seems like a very scrawny body in some sort of exoskeleton or frame that's distinct from a Mega Armour. You can see support pistons under the arms, and the feet have some sort of bracing behind them, while the actual "pilot's" feet are somewhere on the shin of the exo-skeleton.On the right side of the picture, you can sort-of imagine an ork arm holding some sort of control device, while the larger gun-arm is just part of the suit. I.e. it's another "baby carrier".

I thought that too. The only reason I can see them modding Nazdreg to either be out of Mega Armour, is Ghazza is *the* character in Mega Armour (something I disagree with the notion of, but I'm trying to rationalise a speculated thought process here), and Nazza is now no longer in MA, or his entire body is bionic. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of scale on the model, as there doesn't appear to be any obvious skulls and the like to easily gauge how big it is, but the base is lacking the typical scenic base treatment that GW gives big characters, so that's another point against it being Nazdreg.

Edit-
Light enhanced version of it I found. Can see a few details a tad better.
https://i.imgur.com/3fwWyZb.mp4

And the Kroot and Custard Cream for completeness.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/18rcq9c/other_angles_on_the_kroot_rider/
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fe843ytmd5n8c1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D481%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D6d1ebefbb130995626bb39fd0ed1267f5aa014c9

I dont think we are getting Nazdreg back at all, like for a long time or ever if im honest, the way they wrote him off in Arks of Omen to me feel like an offscreen death, "go over there and never come back, remain a mystery" kind of deal. Then the model just doesnt give off Nazdreg vibes, we can make out that he has some sort of maks on, we can see his ears and then what look to be goggles and a box around his mouth with screws in, which is probably some sort of vox-grill / talkin' speaker. No Badmoon Warlord worth his teef is gonna hide his gob! Naz is also fat as hell, this Ork looks pretty normal to me and again we cant see a single clan glyph.

Its most definetly a Mekboss (which Nazdreg aint) in a fancy meka-suit that has a traktor kannon and some kind of personal tellyporting device. Whether or not he is named or not is the real question, and im leaning towards him not being unique.

I just read the 'background' on the new Green Marine Not-Bladeguard.

So a bunch of unknown dudes in black armour appeared from who-knows-where, and the famously suspicious and untrusting Chapter just said 'yup. Inner Circle for you'.

Riiight.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I just read the 'background' on the new Green Marine Not-Bladeguard.

So a bunch of unknown dudes in black armour appeared from who-knows-where, and the famously suspicious and untrusting Chapter just said 'yup. Inner Circle for you'.

Riiight.

Well when your Primarch returns and says jump...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I just read the 'background' on the new Green Marine Not-Bladeguard.

So a bunch of unknown dudes in black armour appeared from who-knows-where, and the famously suspicious and untrusting Chapter just said 'yup. Inner Circle for you'.

Riiight.

Because Lion literally rounded up the Fallen and made them the new Inner Inner Circle rather than trust the Dark Angels.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I just read the 'background' on the new Green Marine Not-Bladeguard.

So a bunch of unknown dudes in black armour appeared from who-knows-where, and the famously suspicious and untrusting Chapter just said 'yup. Inner Circle for you'.

Riiight.

Because Lion literally rounded up the Fallen and made them the new Inner Inner Circle rather than trust the Dark Angels.

That was my guess as to what happened. The Fallen are now The Forgiven?

It doesn't entirely make sense though, does it. You have the modern Dark Angels who are supposedly loyalists and were led by the supposedly loyal Lion'El Johnson, who destroyed the supposedly traitor-held Caliban led by Luther, and then spent 10,000 years hunting down The Fallen who were Luthers followers. Now Lion is back and he takes the supposed traitors who were Luthers followers and thus theoretically his enemy way back when in under his wing as his bodyguard?

Speaking of which, has Cypher featured in any of the recent lore now that the Lion has returned?

Nope. None of the above. At all.

The Lion’s return lead him to meet up with a bunch of “Fallen”. In conversation with one who’d tried to kill him, it becomes apparent not all the Dark Angels present on Caliban knew the truth of Luther’s betrayal.

They fought because they were told The Lion had turned on them. Not because they were anything like True Believers.

It’s then established The Lion can apparently see the truth of them, and tell a dupe from an actual traitor. The actual traitors, y’know, get all killed to death.

Those who were mislead by Luther, but remain truly loyal? Those The Lion christened as “The Risen”

The Inner Circle Companions are very likely members of The Risen. But we need to await the new Codex before we can know for sure.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. None of the above. At all.

The Lion’s return lead him to meet up with a bunch of “Fallen”. In conversation with one who’d tried to kill him, it becomes apparent not all the Dark Angels present on Caliban knew the truth of Luther’s betrayal.

They fought because they were told The Lion had turned on them. Not because they were anything like True Believers.

It’s then established The Lion can apparently see the truth of them, and tell a dupe from an actual traitor. The actual traitors, y’know, get all killed to death.

Those who were mislead by Luther, but remain truly loyal? Those The Lion christened as “The Risen”

The Inner Circle Companions are very likely members of The Risen. But we need to await the new Codex before we can know for sure.

I don't care what anybody else says. adding yet another circle within a circle for no good reason - again casting doubt on their loyality - is peak Dark Angels, you have to give that to the GW writers.

Hm.

I know it was mostly a gakky meme that wasn't much supported by actual fluff, but I kinda liked the idea that there was more complexity to the Luther vs Lion thing and that Luther was actually a loyalist and Lion was maybe not a traitor but not quite loyal either. It gave the chapter a bit more intrigue and depth. The "revelation" that Lion was loyal the whole time and some of the chapter went traitor and had to be dealt with is pretty lame.

Also makes no sense as a secret shame - the Horus Heresy fluff has made it pretty clear that there were elements of basically all the loyal legions that turned traitor, some in quite significant numbers (a significant portion of the White Scars, supposedly an entire great company of Space Wolves, the majority of the Raven Guards terminators come to mind) and that it wasn't a particularly big secret nor much of a surprise to anyone when it happened (beyond, yknow, the initial shock of the Heresy happening at all). Yet its only the Dark Angels who feel the need to go to borderline-treasonous lengths to try to conceal it because reasons.

Right. Regardless of what happened on Caliban, the chief issue is that the DA spent 10.000 years putting their own drama ahead of the interests of humanity and the Imperium and Lion will not have any of that stupid gak.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The actual traitors, y’know, get all killed to death.

You are a poet.

chaos0xomega wrote:


Also makes no sense as a secret shame - the Horus Heresy fluff has made it pretty clear that there were elements of basically all the loyal legions that turned traitor, some in quite significant numbers (a significant portion of the White Scars, supposedly an entire great company of Space Wolves, the majority of the Raven Guards terminators come to mind) and that it wasn't a particularly big secret nor much of a surprise to anyone when it happened (beyond, yknow, the initial shock of the Heresy happening at all). Yet its only the Dark Angels who feel the need to go to borderline-treasonous lengths to try to conceal it because reasons.

Made more sense before the mess that is the Heresy Series. Even if every legion having their mix of traitors and loyalists makes more sense ultimately.

Well, its not just black library that has established that, its also the Horus Heresy game series which over the course of the however many black books discussed that the lines were not as clear cut as the legacy fluff of "9 legions turned against the emperor, 9 stayed loyal" made it out to be.

There were a number of marines from traitor chapters that stayed loyal. Heck, half the OG founding crew of the Grey Knights were Loyalist marines from traitor chapters. The Blood Angels are almost definitely 1000 Sons successes.

...You mean the Blood Ravens.

People always bring up the WS traitors but it's really nothing like the DA. 1. Jaghatai and his legion weren't particularly loyal whilst the Lion and his were. 2. Self image. The WS are the 5th and alwasy feel like/are seen as outsiders whereas the DA are the 1st and paragons of the Legionoes Astartes. 3. The WS traitors wanted to get Jaghatai alone and convince him they should side with Horus. He said no and the traitors basically submitted to his judgement. Luther wanted to sucede from the Imperium and dueled the Lion using chaos sorcery. 4. More DA went "traitor" and they controlled the homeworld. 5. Luthers treachery happened after the Heresy and no one wants to get scoured.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Also makes no sense as a secret shame - the Horus Heresy fluff has made it pretty clear that there were elements of basically all the loyal legions that turned traitor, some in quite significant numbers (a significant portion of the White Scars, supposedly an entire great company of Space Wolves, the majority of the Raven Guards terminators come to mind) and that it wasn't a particularly big secret nor much of a surprise to anyone when it happened (beyond, yknow, the initial shock of the Heresy happening at all). Yet its only the Dark Angels who feel the need to go to borderline-treasonous lengths to try to conceal it because reasons.

Made more sense before the mess that is the Heresy Series. Even if every legion having their mix of traitors and loyalists makes more sense ultimately.

I actually think it makes more sense now. At least for my understanding of the heresy.

I'll preface by saying I haven't read any of it, but:

The Lion basically went around mercing traitor home worlds, making sure they were atomized / glassed and unable to supply further heretical recruits. Kind of a "Burn their homes down while they're at war" approach to ensure that, even if they won the victory, they'd have nothing back to go back to / no way to further reinforce.

This is critical becomes when he went home.. He found that his own home world had turned traitor.

This, to the DA's eyes, makes them on par with the traitors. How can they be sure they were loyal of their home world was another corrupted hell-pit of traitors? How could anyone trust them if they showed up AFTER the siege was won, said they'd been loyal the whole time, but then turned around and went back to a house full of traitors?

The concealment was, IMO, because they originally thought no one would believe they were loyal if they knew the truth. Sure all of the other loyalist legions had some marines go rogue, but no one else had their homeworld turn on them. Especially not when they actually didn't even participate in most of the actual war. So the hunt for the fallen is as much about hiding the secret as it is about cleansing the traitors who should've been the most loyal, their very hearth guard.

Meh, I remain unconvinced. "We paid the price to clean up our own mess" should've been enough to clear their own name. The imperium hadn't yet descended into the levels of absurd paranoia that is 40k, and the loyalists couldn't afford to purge another legion with the Scouring on going. Besides, as the Lipn was believed dead by the other loyslists after the destruction of Caliban, there was less concern of him leading the legion into Heresy as the others did. The DA would have been easily controlled.

The thing about paranoia is that it isn't rational. The thing about secrets is the longer you hold it, the higher the fear of the consequences of revelation. The Dark Angels probably thought they would quickly clean up the traitors and then reveal the problem as "all solved". 10K years later, they still haven't cleaned up the traitors and are more paranoid and secretive than ever.

And should I add that prior to the return of the Primarchs, the High Lords of Terra would definitely have sent the entire legion on an penitent's crusade into the Eye of Terra if they learned the truth about what the Dark Angels had been up to for the last several thousands of years?

It doesn't look at all ridiculous that they were considered traitors for 10,000 years and then lion el'plot Wang flops around and presto they weren't traitors all along.

No matter how you spin it, the retcon stink won't go away. It just screams contrivance.

considered traitors by the dark angels but hasn't there always been an element of you can't quit trust that the dark angels are telling/know the truth and fallen might be more then they seem? at least that's the sense that I got all the way back in 3rd edition.

the point is that no one outside the inner circle know that there are former DA hunted down

only the 2 companies and the command of the chapter knows that they are hunting down the fallen, and with not even the members of other companies from that chapter know about it, no one in the imperium should know

hence why the DA are considered not trustworthy by some as the Inquisition knows that they are hiding something and start acting wired (for outsiders) from time to time (like leaving a battle to chase a single marine) but don't know why or what exactly is driving them

so for the chapter itself, having a bodyguard of strangers is not more unusual than everything else the inner circle is doing
but the inner circle itself would go rouge if the Fallen are now considered loyal and having a higher rank than everyone else

 kodos wrote:

but the inner circle itself would go rouge if the Fallen are now considered loyal and having a higher rank than everyone else

Even if the Lion will tells them that? Would they rebel against him just like the very traitors they hunted for 10K years?

same as the Lion telling them prevented the uprising on Caliban in the first place?

Hunting down certain individuals for 10k years and now your Primarch is coming back telling you that you were wrong and those you hunted were actually the loyal ones?

Either GW is setting up a future conflict within the DA, or the Inner Circle are the true traitors, Cypher was actually the Loyalist knowing about them, and the DA are now hunting down the fromer Inner Circle as "true" Fallen

 kodos wrote:
same as the Lion telling them prevented the uprising on Caliban in the first place?

It was 30k era DA. 40k ones are basically worshipping Lion. Also, it would not be telling them that all Fallen are now good, only the misguided by Luther. There are still real traitors to hunt down among old Legion.

Dark Angels Chaplains get those black pearls for making Fallen "repent" so the Lion could just say that their service is a term of their repentance. And the fluff doesn't seem to have the chosen as a higher level of the inner circle, but a group of watchers and protectors.

 Hellebore wrote:
It doesn't look at all ridiculous that they were considered traitors for 10,000 years and then lion el'plot Wang flops around and presto they weren't traitors all along.

Some of the Fallen weren't active traitors, but misled by those in charge. Not every Fallen seems to be getting the opportunity to become Risen - and we don't have any idea what proportion are just getting dead'd, and who are getting Forgiven - and as far as I recall it was said as far back as the original Angels of Death codex that a good chunk in the Fallen were misled by Luther et al into believing that the Lion was the traitor, not Luther.

I wouldn't describe this as a retcon, but another progression of the storyline. Whether that's a good thing or not is, of course, going to be down to the individual.