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Sgt. Cortez wrote:
His teef are too small, but that's the case for all post-8th edition orks.
Like the squig, but probably not enough to get him just for that, especially when I have Grukk on the painting table with a proper head, a proper squig, the same gun and a proper Klaw instead of just a choppa .

No, the teeth are still too big. They're looney toons too big. They're too large for his mouth and there are too few of them. Brian Nelson's cartoon ape orks teeth have always looked ridiculous due to being too large for them to close their mouths properly.

 Overread wrote:
I really hope next edition brings back points, but I have a grim feeling that "powerlevels" are here to stay. Someone at GW has been pushing for it for ages and seems to have won the battle.

On the one front yes it makes army building easier; but on the other it saps a huge chunk of flavour. Plus yeah some weapons are just outright better on paper so why not take them if they " cost" the same.

They wanted to make the game easier to pick up for beginners and/or casual gamers. Okay, that's fine with me. Just do the points/power level split like they used to so we "serious" gamers can still toys with list streamlining.

Because the truth is, list streamlining was never the bottleneck. Anyone who remembers what 9e was actually like also remembers that everyone rejected PL outright, even casuals, because it just didn't achieve anything meaningful.

40k's complexity is and will most likely always be in moment to moment gameplay and interactions. Here is where even 10th edition is a mess because of the game's fundamental nature. An ultimately forgivable mess, on some level (though the writing often leaves a lot to be desired - even 10th edition has an absolute ton of FAQ and errata...), but still a mess. Imagine going into the wonderfully streamlined and new player friendly 10th edition and watching your melee unit face a no-sell situation because your enemy stands 1" away from a magic wall, making it impossible to get to them because you're not allowed to stand -in- the wall and you cannot reach engagement range through it. This is the kind of stuff that is seen as perfectly normal in tournaments, and it's unbelievably janky.

Building a list was never hard. It's not difficult to go "Allarus cost X points per model". It's not way more new player friendly to go "Allarus are X points for 2 models, Y points for 3 models, Z points for 5 models and G points for 6 models, also you can't take 4 models because only one Allarus Shield-Captain conversion is sanctioned".

It's trimming the bread at this point, not the butter.

Frankly, it feels like it's GW making it easier on -themselves- (reducing the number of moving parts) rather than for us.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
His teef are too small

Metal, scrap, fuel, innovative know-what and dakka aren't cheap, especially in this galactical situation. You'll have to invest sum teef to keep up - spend them now before your jaw is raided by kompetitors.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I really hope next edition brings back points, but I have a grim feeling that "powerlevels" are here to stay. Someone at GW has been pushing for it for ages and seems to have won the battle.

On the one front yes it makes army building easier; but on the other it saps a huge chunk of flavour. Plus yeah some weapons are just outright better on paper so why not take them if they " cost" the same.

They wanted to make the game easier to pick up for beginners and/or casual gamers. Okay, that's fine with me. Just do the points/power level split like they used to so we "serious" gamers can still toys with list streamlining.

Yeah but honestly its not THAT hard to add up - plus GW has the app now that they push hard which does all the adding up for you. Streamline the app a bit more to work better and there'd be no barrier

 Hellebore wrote:
No, the teeth are still too big. They're looney toons too big. They're too large for his mouth and there are too few of them. Brian Nelson's cartoon ape orks teeth have always looked ridiculous due to being too large for them to close their mouths properly.

And your point is?

I think the only thing that’s off about the new model is the chainsword-like weapon. I think the other Boyz would point at it and laugh.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Because the truth is, list streamlining was never the bottleneck. Anyone who remembers what 9e was actually like also remembers that everyone rejected PL outright, even casuals, because it just didn't achieve anything meaningful.

40k's complexity is and will most likely always be in moment to moment gameplay and interactions. Here is where even 10th edition is a mess because of the game's fundamental nature. An ultimately forgivable mess, on some level (though the writing often leaves a lot to be desired - even 10th edition has an absolute ton of FAQ and errata...), but still a mess. Imagine going into the wonderfully streamlined and new player friendly 10th edition and watching your melee unit face a no-sell situation because your enemy stands 1" away from a magic wall, making it impossible to get to them because you're not allowed to stand -in- the wall and you cannot reach engagement range through it. This is the kind of stuff that is seen as perfectly normal in tournaments, and it's unbelievably janky.

Building a list was never hard. It's not difficult to go "Allarus cost X points per model". It's not way more new player friendly to go "Allarus are X points for 2 models, Y points for 3 models, Z points for 5 models and G points for 6 models, also you can't take 4 models because only one Allarus Shield-Captain conversion is sanctioned".

It's trimming the bread at this point, not the butter.

Frankly, it feels like it's GW making it easier on -themselves- (reducing the number of moving parts) rather than for us.

Pretty much this really. There's no running units with unusual numbers to dodge breakpoints that weirdly makes the 20th member of a unit less valuable than the 19th arbitrarily for example. So GW can control a smaller number of variables.

The wargear element is likely they know people field the "best" unit largely, so a fixed price is realistically representing what 75% of that unit (in their data) fields anyway and anyone who was running suboptimally is still... running suboptimally.

That removes a lot of dials and moving parts from their perspective, so it's making their job easier. It just robs that small amount of wiggle and faff from those who want to push the system in ways GW don't really care for.

 Snord wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
No, the teeth are still too big. They're looney toons too big. They're too large for his mouth and there are too few of them. Brian Nelson's cartoon ape orks teeth have always looked ridiculous due to being too large for them to close their mouths properly.

And your point is?

I think the only thing that’s off about the new model is the chainsword-like weapon. I think the other Boyz would point at it and laugh.

I was responding to someone else saying the inverse, so my point was in my answer. Your comment about his chainsword is further down the same looney toons flanderisation - orks aren't just oversized mallets and stupid teeth.

 Hellebore wrote:
I was responding to someone else saying the inverse, so my point was in my answer. Your comment about his chainsword is further down the same looney toons flanderisation - orks aren't just oversized mallets and stupid teeth.

I was trying to be funny - the fact that the teeth are oversized is kind of the point. Orks have never been remotely realistic - the pre-Nelson versions were even more cartoon-like (see also Paul Bonner's brilliant artwork). The only exception was the GorkaMorka models, which were more sensible but rather boring. Giving the new Nob model a slightly Orky looking chainsaw just doesn't work, IMO.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Agreed, they just can’t seem to get the teeth right on the newer Orks.

Also, no power klaw or even a big choppa?

While they have never been meta gameplay wise, Nobz using regular choppas is perfectly common in the lore.

Remember Assault on Black Reach?

In 10th edition, there is no way to field a nob with a regular choppa.

 Snord wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
I was responding to someone else saying the inverse, so my point was in my answer. Your comment about his chainsword is further down the same looney toons flanderisation - orks aren't just oversized mallets and stupid teeth.

I was trying to be funny - the fact that the teeth are oversized is kind of the point. Orks have never been remotely realistic - the pre-Nelson versions were even more cartoon-like (see also Paul Bonner's brilliant artwork). The only exception was the GorkaMorka models, which were more sensible but rather boring. Giving the new Nob model a slightly Orky looking chainsaw just doesn't work, IMO.

There are some similar looking chainsword choppas already in the classic boyz kit, so it's okay to me.
Concerning orky proportions, I think it's okay for them to have these large heads, oversized teef and big hands- they're aliens after all in a universe that can't be taken seriously. Orks can't close their mouth? So what, then they don’t, they'll still have fun eating you.
I'm building beast snaggas currently, after painting the old metal nobz, and the difference is pretty stark, they can hardly be seen as the same species. I think I'll stay away from further modern orks (or need to buy more 3rd party heads), they're just not the style I'm looking for.

 Hellebore wrote:

No, the teeth are still too big. They're looney toons too big. They're too large for his mouth and there are too few of them. Brian Nelson's cartoon ape orks teeth have always looked ridiculous due to being too large for them to close their mouths properly.

I will counter with Space Marines can only move because parts of the armour clip through each other or have mysterious undercuts.

Also, the models feature somewhat distorted proportions. And always have done.

What matters is whether the look cool, not if they look completely realistic.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
There are some similar looking chainsword choppas already in the classic boyz kit, so it's okay to me.

You mean the cool motorised choppa with teef? That's much heftier looking than the new Nob's weapon, which is distinctly humie-styled .

Concerning orky proportions, I think it's okay for them to have these large heads, oversized teef and big hands- they're aliens after all in a universe that can't be taken seriously. Orks can't close their mouth? So what, then they don’t, they'll still have fun eating you.
I'm building beast snaggas currently, after painting the old metal nobz, and the difference is pretty stark, they can hardly be seen as the same species. I think I'll stay away from further modern orks (or need to buy more 3rd party heads), they're just not the style I'm looking for.

Yes, it's a bit strange to insist on realistic proportions for green alien humanoids.

The Beast Snaggas have a very distinct aesthetic - they do look like at least a different sub-species. I found that they don't look very good next to other Ork models, so I replaced the heads on all of the associated units (Stormboyz, vehicle krew etc) with Beast Snagga heads. Which, coincidentally, tended to improve their appearance.

 Snord wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
No, the teeth are still too big. They're looney toons too big. They're too large for his mouth and there are too few of them. Brian Nelson's cartoon ape orks teeth have always looked ridiculous due to being too large for them to close their mouths properly.

And your point is?

I think the only thing that’s off about the new model is the chainsword-like weapon. I think the other Boyz would point at it and laugh.

It's just cold out.

Has anyone seen anything on Orkimedes? I've just been sent a fairly convincing image of him for the Armageddon release.

ccs wrote:


To be fair it was the GSC who stole our speeders.

And highly effective they were too in a squadron of 3 popping up from behind terrain!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I keep thinking of the Epic Armageddon stuff. But I think that was actually Krieg again?

The Epic A rulebook https://epic-uk.co.uk/rules/m1320001_EPIC_updated_rulebook-sections_5_Oct09.pdf had Steel legion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I was meaning Epic Armageddon the game. But now you mention it, it was indeed the Siegfried’s.

The first expansion had Baran PDF in it. A fan made supplement had krieg in it, largely done by evilandchaos. Or chaosandevil. Forget which ID he has on this site.

No no. These ones

Definitely Krieg. Released by the Fanatic! imprint.

Slightly related to 40K, but anyone got a feeling both the rest of 10E and the next season of Kill Team will solely focus on Armageddon, leading up to 11E?

I really like these new Orks. Unless the rest of the Greenskin side is a disappointing downgrade from these two, I'll be getting the launch box for the Orks.

I've found recent ork sculpts at bit hit and miss. I too find the mouths / teeth a big factor.

While I loved the old school Brian Nelson look, these are fine, too.

Some of the more recent sculpts have had both small and sparse teeth which the decades old 'bigger teef are worth more' fluff nut in me really didn't like.

For me, at least, these guys work. They look fun to paint. I'm keen to see how evil they have made the rumoured Grots.

 parakuribo wrote:
Slightly related to 40K, but anyone got a feeling both the rest of 10E and the next season of Kill Team will solely focus on Armageddon, leading up to 11E?

Considering 11th is literally an Armageddon box, past then, too.

So we finally find out about Yarrick and what happened:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/z9key2tp/lore-where-has-commissar-yarrick-been-lately/

Seriously I think Ghaz is just treating it like having a playdate now.

It would be funny if that is how he's treating it, unaware in the way Orks are of the frailty and aging of humans

Iracundus wrote:

Seriously I think Ghaz is just treating it like having a playdate now.

It would be funny if that is how he's treating it, unaware in the way Orks are of the frailty and aging of humans

It's always been a playdate for Ghaz and he knows exactly how far he can go without killing Yarrick.

I’m wondering if Xenology (the first one) was on the money, and Ghaz is indeed a Leader Caste Oddboy.

As well as appreciating the old man can put up a helluva fight? His grasp of tactics is good for sharpening up Ghaz’s underlings, ensuring it’s not just krumpin’ they’re getting really good at, but the kunnin’ side of things as well. A way to not just maximise the number of Really Good Fights even the lowliest Boy gets involved in, but maximising the number that survive, making the whole lot ‘Arder and ‘Arder and ‘Arder.

Not a new Orky Evolution by any means, just the first time a Waaagh! of sufficient size has been going in a long, long time.

Iracundus wrote:
So we finally find out about Yarrick and what happened:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/z9key2tp/lore-where-has-commissar-yarrick-been-lately/

Seriously I think Ghaz is just treating it like having a playdate now.

It would be funny if that is how he's treating it, unaware in the way Orks are of the frailty and aging of humans

I guess this time it's Deus Ex Wolf Machina for how Yarrick survived.

But yeah, there's precedence for Ghazzy not delivering the killing blow and wanting more of a challenge, so I think he's trying to milk Yarrick for what he's worth by not killing him.

 Grimskul wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
So we finally find out about Yarrick and what happened:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/z9key2tp/lore-where-has-commissar-yarrick-been-lately/

Seriously I think Ghaz is just treating it like having a playdate now.

It would be funny if that is how he's treating it, unaware in the way Orks are of the frailty and aging of humans

I guess this time it's Deus Ex Wolf Machina for how Yarrick survived.

But yeah, there's precedence for Ghazzy not delivering the killing blow and wanting more of a challenge, so I think he's trying to milk Yarrick for what he's worth by not killing him.

It could be the first Ork tragedy if Ghaz accidentally kills his frenemy

Honestly I think the Yarrick v Ghazgkull fightromance is one of the better parts of the lore. It retains the more amusing quirkier feel from the older editions.

I note the end paragraph saying the new minis and the book are available "soon". So mid to late April we're assuming?

He is coming:




https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/krrfctul/perturabos-grand-plan-revealed/

Goodness gracious - the chap is as tall as King Kong!

Yeah, an actual new art featuring 40k Perty does rather suggest he's the next Primarch to get released doesn't it.

I'm also glad to read that the Space Wolves just rescued Yarrick at the last second and let him recover on their ship, rather than anything silly like necromancy as previously rumoured.