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Newsbeat is BBCs child oriented news brand, so it’s the fluffiest of fluff, but there might be an interesting snippet in there for you. Read time of a minute or so.
I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that deep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/19 12:18:43
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that dep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
Which is a problem, because 40k isn't supposed to be a MCU clone. GW really messed up there.
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/19 12:14:42
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that dep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
Which is a problem, because 40k isn't supposed to be a MCU clone. GW really messed up there.
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
Doesn't feel like that so much anymore when 40k is becoming "My superhero Primarch is better than your superhero Primarch!" as a core focus of the setting with one of the most common things I've seen asked (especially by new fans) is "Who's gonna be the next Loyalist primarch to return???? We need MORE PRIMARCHS!" and Primarchs being the most common topic it seems, while AOS is a setting revolving demigods and monsters and superheroes and "epic" stuff all over the place.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/19 12:34:08
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that dep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
Which is a problem, because 40k isn't supposed to be a MCU clone. GW really messed up there.
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
Doesn't feel like that so much anymore when 40k is becoming "My superhero Primarch is better than your superhero Primarch!" as a core focus of the setting with one of the most common things I've seen asked (especially by now fans) is "Who's gonna be the next Loyalist primarch to return???? We need MORE PRIMARCHS!" and Primarchs being the most common topic it seems, while AOS is a setting revolving demigods and monsters and superheroes and "epic" stuff all over the place.
Yeah, that's I mean. Its not a good development.
This is what people mean when they say 40k isn't grimdark. You can't be grimdark when the setting revolves primarily around literal superheroes who have 50 layers of plot armour and can benchpress armies, thereby making most of the setting's threats to humanity irrelevant unless they have their own super heroes.
But then it stops being about factions and armies and more about a bunch of mary sues having a pissing contest, and that's just lame.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/19 12:31:34
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I for one can't wait for 40K to become mass market slop which loses money routinely at the box office and has helped cripple an entire section of the publishing industry.
Lord Damocles wrote: I for one can't wait for 40K to become mass market slop which loses money routinely at the box office and has helped cripple an entire section of the publishing industry.
At least it will appeal to the wider audience.
Warhammer+ and merch exists. I think that might have already happened.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
Probably, but I'd argue the ship has sailed the moment GW decided to bring back Primarchs. While detractors of such opinion are correct that the Primarchs do not contribute to the majority of written/adapted on screen material for the universe, they are undeniably the center of attention in the fanbase. Every single time I overhear a 40K discussion at my main wargaming club there is a 50% chance it will be about Primarch power levels.
That was happening before Primarchs got rules/models though.
Unless you were to go back almost 20 years and stop the named characters from ever being added, those kinds of discussions have always been there.
It's 90% of what my group argued about. Who's the best Chapter Master, who's the best Psyker, which faction is going to win?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/01/19 13:27:40
Gert wrote: Unless you were to go back almost 20 years and stop the named characters from ever being added, those kinds of discussions have always been there.
Let's agree to disagree. I'd say it has basically drowned out everything else in terms of named characters.
Lord Damocles wrote: and has helped cripple an entire section of the publishing industry.
Give Marvel some credit, they did that once already way before their movies got popular.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/19 16:32:49
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Lord Damocles wrote: I for one can't wait for 40K to become mass market slop which loses money routinely at the box office and has helped cripple an entire section of the publishing industry.
At least it will appeal to the wider audience.
Do you remember when Black Library spun off Black Industries and Solaris Publishing, scooping up a bunch of Britain’s fresh young artists and pushing g out smaller independent publishers and then shafting the bed?
It has all happened before, and it will happen again.
The paper-thin overly heroic plot of Space Marine 2 is the harbinger of what's to come as Warhammer becomes more mainstream; big armoured superheroes punching monsters in space. It stopped being punk or really satirical a long, long time ago.
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that dep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
Which is a problem, because 40k isn't supposed to be a MCU clone. GW really messed up there.
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
Doesn't feel like that so much anymore when 40k is becoming "My superhero Primarch is better than your superhero Primarch!" as a core focus of the setting with one of the most common things I've seen asked (especially by new fans) is "Who's gonna be the next Loyalist primarch to return???? We need MORE PRIMARCHS!" and Primarchs being the most common topic it seems, while AOS is a setting revolving demigods and monsters and superheroes and "epic" stuff all over the place.
I love the HH series, bought Horus Rising in 2006 and I've been along for the whole ride but it really had a detrimental impact on 40k lore. All these primarchs returning and the 8th edition lore decision around how Primaris marines were invented and what they are (rather than just ignoring them lorewise), has just fundamentally altered the setting. It was meant to be a decaying crippled bureaucratic nightmare just hanging on by it's fingernails, longing for the past and figures that had become mythical they were so long ago. Science was a much a mystery as anything else and no one knew how space marines worked other than following the recipe by rote, with the recipe being more and more decayed as the centuries passed and space marines become more and more decayed, more likely to fall to the various geneseed flaws.
Now despite the Cicatrix Maledictum, we have Primarchs and 'all new space marines with no faults tm' running around and giving hope and showing progress to the Imperium. Bleugh. Still a cool setting that I love beyond belief but it's core vibe has definitely shifted and I'm not moaning about the Imperium being portrayed as 'good' as many pearl clutching left wing elements of the community have taken to in the last few years, I've got no problem with accepting the Imperium is better than the realistic various alternatives in the 40k universe to humanity, even if the Imperium is a horrible hellhole. I just prefer my Imperium being even more decayed and hopeless without any positive elements.
On the other side the Primarch models rock, so hey ho.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/01/20 20:37:22
That whole "all new space marines with no faults" has been shown to not be accurate as the fluff develops.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
The problem with Warhammer as Marvel is that its even dumber. Superheroes have different powers that synergize or cancel each other in interesting ways. There are only four powers in 40K - shootn', smashin', psykerin' and not dyn'. It would basically be a comic about Hulk vs Juggernaut, over and over again.
I think you can reduce most superhero powers to "strong", "durable", "magic" etc. Apart from the stupid outliers like Ant-man with objectively crap powers. If you're gonna be reductive it should be applied equally.
Focusing on the super-beings is the wrong thing to do with Warhammer media, anyway. Having them there for scale and terror is fine but make the protagonists "ordinary" people, not demigods
tauist wrote: I think its eventually going to be like Marvel. Warhammer started in the late 80s, Marvel comics started going after 1961. So give it about 20 more years and I think its going to get there, if not sooner.
For what it's worth, my personal experience with newcomer Warhammer fans ("newcomer" means starting around 2020 onwards) indicates that both them and that part of the public that is at least vaguely aware of what Warhammer is already treat it as Marvel substitute. Everyone is either a giant or some kind of a demigod, wears multi-colored armour and punches things with superpowers. My impression after reading tons of speculation and dicussion on Amazon's TV series from people who are not that dep into Warhammer points to them expecting it to basically be grimdark MCU.
Which is a problem, because 40k isn't supposed to be a MCU clone. GW really messed up there.
40k has more to do with 2000AD, not Marvel. Completely different tone and concepts.
Alas, the 2000AD et al origins are slowly but surely being squashed out, and will soon only live on in Necromunda. 40K has become a satire of itself, and the more things revolve around these obnoxious super characters (and the fact they never seem to die, just like in morning cartoons), the less satirical things will get
IMHO
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
~4100
~1660
... 
