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We all have games that are our "Safe Space" for wargaming. The game that we default too and prefer for a variety of reasons. You might like the minis, you might like the community in your area, you might like the mechanics. This is a game you have been playing for a bit and are comfortable with. You know what it is, what you like about it, what you do not like about it, but more importantly when you play it you know you will get a certain experience that you enjoy from it.

So, what would it take for you to move out of that safe space and try something else? What do you need to see, touch, smell, or experience in order for you to go outside of your normal safe space game?





For me, I have a natural desire to move from game-to-game. I do not feel a need to master a game before I move onto the next. Typically, I am interested in other games anyway, because I am always trying to expand my experience and knowledge of wargaming. I know what I think is fun, so I will go back after a game and try to map that experience to what I enjoy. No surprise, there are a lot of ways for a game to hit those criteria and I am interested in learning how a variety of games do it. Therefore, I do not have much of a safe space other than I like to play games I wrote, because I wrote them for me to play anyway.

My safe space is big enough and wide enough that I feel neither need nor desire to leave it, thanks.

I’ll try pretty much any game.

But to get into a game? Invest my time and money into it? That’s a harder question.

I’m crazy frugal with my money. GW, is my “safe space” as you point out. While the rules may change, new editions drop, I know that for the most part, I can head down to the FLGS and use most of my collection to get a game in.

To invest in something else I’d need to know that I’d have people to play with. Not just today, but months/years from now. My gaming friends are primarily role players. My one close wargaming friend passed away. It was different when I still had a regular opponent. We could both go “we like this game” and invest in it. But pick up groups are not dependable. And I’m an introvert. I’m not building a community for something.

For RPGs, I’m a player, not a GM. If one of the guys wants to run something, more then just a one-shot, I might invest in the rulebooks. Just backed the new edition of Cypher yesterday for that reason. One of our regular GMs likes the system, we’ve played it a number of times, so I know it has legs, so I’m willing to invest in some books.

stroller wrote:
My safe space is big enough and wide enough that I feel neither need nor desire to leave it, thanks.

Which is totally fine!

I’m pretty happy with just GW stuff and Hero Quest.

I’m a right odd fish when it comes to models. Infinity doesn’t appeal, as whilst they are really nice sculpts? The aesthetic isn’t my bag. WarMaHordes I had a miserable experience with, and the models? Those I can’t stand.

It often feels like non-GW games are just too anime and/or steampunk for my peculiar tastes.

I feel like every time I have broken away from GW products, one of the following things occurs:

1. The game dies a quick death after I invest in it (Starship Troopers).

2. The game designers pull a quick one and change the game mechanics into something unrelated to what I was originally sold (Warmachine)

3. The game isn't popular where I live and it's impossible to find players (Star Trek)


I'm sure there are other issues (I know I've complained about my negative experiences with BattleTech on these forums before).

It's just easier for me to play WarCry, Kill Team, and some small 40k games. I can easily find players wherever I go.

I actively play between half and a dozen systems so I wouldn't really say I have a safe space, but once upon a time I played Warmachine exclusively. I had other games I was curious about but Warmachine was safe as you say and convincing others to try other games felt like it threatened that safety.

Eventually as the online Warmachine community turned on itself and the game became increasingly inaccessible, the sense that people were playing out of obligation pushed me to do something about it.

I more or less decided that I was going to be the safe space for... anything. I wanted to collect and paint some different things, so I got a couple Malifaux crews, some Guild Ball teams, X-Wing, an Infinity Icestorm set and even finally picked up a 40k army. You want to try something? Lets play.

For the most part, its worked, though to a degree a little too well. There's a nice crowd playing a variety of stuff and while no one plays everything, enough people play 2-3 different games to keep more games in rotation than I have time to keep up with. It's my new safe space, but definitely not one I'm likely to get bored with anytime soon.

stroller wrote:
My safe space is big enough and wide enough that I feel neither need nor desire to leave it, thanks.

Mine is so large I don't think I can leave it...

I mean, I'll try just about any RPG, boardgame, or minis game.
And I'm not at all adverse to buying minis for games I'll only occasionally play.
Boardgames? I try not to duplicate stuff others in the group already have (Unless i REALLY like the game).

I guess that leaves CCGs & PC games?
CCGs
I'll play the occasional game of MTG or Vampire.
I'm not particularly into Gundams, but
I might be tempted to invest some $ in their new card/mini game if others want to try it. Otherwise, depending on the models made, I might get one or two just because. Or at least the rules to see if even bigger models could be used.

PC games.
Eh. Sometimes they'll make a digital version of some boardgame i like. I suppose if they ever do Finspan?
Otherwise i really have no interest in PC games. Haven't for a long time. I don't have the patience to master the modern stuff & I'd rather invest that time into playing stuff - minis/board/RPG - in person.

My gaming "safe space" is enormous.

from very esoteric games like the large scale WWII "battle tactics", and babylon 5 wars in all of its variations.

To the still known games like battle tech.

As well as old versions (read-i like them better than the current iteration) of games i really enjoy

going even as far as dead games that have great rules and models but are no longer officially supported.

I play over a dozen different games(see my sig), when i say play i mean i have at least 2 armies for each along with rule books and gaming related items like dice.


However some games are just a straight turn off usually because of mechanics-malifaux, X-wing, and star wars legion fall into that category (even if i love some of the minis).

At the end of the day with my safe space of games being both supported and liked in my local active community i have no space for much else. i already have an entire room of my house dedicated to war gaming storage, chock full or minis and terrain and books galore.

I think for me it's a "sunk cost" investment.

Warhammer is my safe space because I have so many painted models I can nip in and out of skirmish games, wargames, RPGs etc knowing I will have painted minis to play with.

Minis take me ages to paint and are a luxury item that, although I don't think are expensive compared to other hobbies, I can't just buy on a whim.

However, that has led me into boardgames, where they tend to be a "one and done" and don't have huge amounts of minis and if they do, they don't necessarily have to be painted.

The only game that has almost tempted me has been Trench Crusade, just because the lore and minis are familiar enough to the Grimdark I have grown up on.

But, tbh, with my fingers and toes currently in 30K, Necromunda, Kill Team and Legions Imperialis and my backlog is still insane, I don't think I will ever be in a position to leave my safe space until I retire and can catch up....

I wouldn't have any problem in trying and investing in new games. The issue is that some criteria must be met:
- Scale of the minis must meet scale of the game (a few big miniatures for skirmish games, a lot of small minis for big battles games).
- Played locally.
- I like the setting, or the theme is appealing to me.

And those at the same time for a game are basically impossible locally.

Bold of you to assume I have a safe space game when I'm somebody who browses Wargame Vault by new.

GW's current range of games is enough to cover nearly any gaming 'want' I have.
The lore and background is what keeps me playing games between editions, as does the limited trickle of players I get to play against who also play those games.
At the club I go to, lots of indie games get played, but usualy by the very cliquey group who don't announce their game of the week. This makes it very hard to get involved.
But, I don't really care, and have anough GW games with occasional players to keep going with them.

X-Wing came and went, and I was all-in with that. I bought SW:Legion, but got left as the only one with any models, having never played it.
I try branching out, but the branch usually snaps.

As a chronic rules systems buyer (really, it's research for writing my own stuff, honest), I have very little problem in buying standalone rulebooks, as I have a library of models that I can use with almost any setting (whether that's a feature of the rules being agnostic models, or just straight up proxy). Getting whole hog into another system is a bit more challenging, and comes down to:

1. I have to really, really like the models.
2. I have to like the rules (though if the models are really awesome and conceivably usable in other things, might get a pass).

I don't play at LGSes, and have a small group of friends who I will foist new things on. A couple of them are more open to it than others, lol. Often, though, it'll either be systems they can use some of their existing models with, or that I have enough for all sides to use.

So I guess my "safe space" is generally non-historical minis gaming. (I just can't get into historicals, even though I know there are some good rule systems out there, the subject matter just doesn't jazz me.)

I guess I'd play any game someone invited me to. But I will choose the faction I play.

I play a huge range of games - wargames, rpgs, card games, board games of both euro and ameri vatiety. I am pretty picky but with all the immensity of the market there's always something for me in each category.

I prefer mastering games over many plays. Hopping between titles makes my feel like a constant noob only playing a tutorial before switching to another game again. What I enjoy most is when all players know the game very well amd know how to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of the system and the game is like a duel of kung fu masters with perfect timing and execution of each move. A sight to behold!

For these reason I rarely buy new games now, as I have firm faves for every type that I'd rather play than learn and be a noob in something newer but hardly better.

PS: my list here is a bit outdated, but absolutely holds up today when it comes to what I'd always happily play https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/807987.page

Cyel wrote:
I prefer mastering games over many plays. Hopping between titles makes my feel like a constant noob only playing a tutorial before switching to another game again. What I enjoy most is when all players know the game very well amd know how to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of the system and the game is like a duel of kung fu masters with perfect timing and execution of each move. A sight to behold!

That reminds me.

My friend Alex has a problem with boardgames. He buys them faster then he can get them to the table. And not random impulse purchases, but researched top rated games. So a few times a year I’ll get invited over to his place for an afternoon, we’ll take the shrink wrap off and punch out a new game, learn it, and play it. Depending on the complexity, we can get 1d3+1 to the table.

Shorter games we might get 2 runs of a game in. On rare occasions we’ll play a game again on another day.

The first time you play a game you are still focused on the mechanics. What the moves are, how the rules work, what the victory conditions are
The second time you can focus more on how the game plays. How the rules interact. The different paths to victory.
Subsequent games you can start refining your strategies.

It’s fun to learn new games. You can marvel at the cool ways the mechanics work, how they’ve crafted it. From a very high level meta-view appreciating the design choices that went into it. But the wargamer in me wants to get down in the trenches. Crunch the numbers, leverage the synergies. Work the system to get a win. Which needs a few games under your belt to get things hammered out nice.

I’ve gotten pretty good at winning out of the box. Take a look at the rules, figure out the general shape of the game, and figure out more or less what I should be doing. Adapt on the fly as we figure more things out. Works better in some games then others. i.e. games with decks of cards you might know generally what to expect, but there is a lot of uncertainty.

 Nevelon wrote:


That reminds me.

My friend Alex has a problem with boardgames. He buys them faster then he can get them to the table. And not random impulse purchases, but researched top rated games. So a few times a year I’ll get invited over to his place for an afternoon, we’ll take the shrink wrap off and punch out a new game, learn it, and play it. Depending on the complexity, we can get 1d3+1 to the table.

Shorter games we might get 2 runs of a game in. On rare occasions we’ll play a game again on another day.

We also had a player like this in our boardgaming group, buying a lot of games and trying to get everybody to learn and play yet another new game every time. It required an Intervention at one point, when we just told him that no, we are not interested in so much hopping between titles and we'd rather dig deeper into games we already know.

I believe it may be a syndrome for many players whose free time becomes shorter while bank accounts get fatter. Due to the lack of time for playing, the hobby of gaming has all the engagement transferred to the hobby of buying, especially as marketing teams know very well how to target such people.

In fact I was playing with an idea to start a topic about the ultraconsummerist nature of modern tabletop gaming (fast gaming, like fast fashion etc, usually when posts like this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/817565.page#11781004 provoke my pretty negative thoughts on that matter), but I was afraid that it may be perceived as provocative or inflammatory by some of our fellow users. The churn of "buy-play once-forget-buy another" is very real in my observations, though and I don't think it does the hobby any favours.

Cyel wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


That reminds me.

My friend Alex has a problem with boardgames. He buys them faster then he can get them to the table. And not random impulse purchases, but researched top rated games. So a few times a year I’ll get invited over to his place for an afternoon, we’ll take the shrink wrap off and punch out a new game, learn it, and play it. Depending on the complexity, we can get 1d3+1 to the table.

Shorter games we might get 2 runs of a game in. On rare occasions we’ll play a game again on another day.

We also had a player like this in our boardgaming group, buying a lot of games and trying to get everybody to learn and play yet another new game every time. It required an Intervention at one point, when we just told him that no, we are not interested in so much hopping between titles and we'd rather dig deeper into games we already know.

I believe it may be a syndrome for many players whose free time becomes shorter while bank accounts get fatter. Due to the lack of time for playing, the hobby of gaming has all the engagement transferred to the hobby of buying, especially as marketing teams know very well how to target such people.

In fact I was playing with an idea to start a topic about the ultraconsummerist nature of modern tabletop gaming (fast gaming, like fast fashion etc), but I was afraid that it may be perceived as provocative or inflammatory by some of our fellow users. The churn of "buy-play once-forget-buy another" is very real in my observations, though and I don't think it does the hobby any favours.

Honestly I'm not even sure how that works with our hobby when I'm like, wait GW, don’t change editions yet again, I'm just halfway through painting my army! In my view it has always been a strength of Lotr/middle earth that I could come back to the game 3, 5 or 7 years later and it still was basically the same and my experiences from 2005 were still helpful when playing the game and even enough to participate in a tournament and make it to the middle field.
OPR even made it a bit unnecessary to me to start new games - buy more models, yes, but I can use anything in that system and don't have to relearn every time.

Our group always tried everything GW had to offer back when we were rambunctious youths.
As we got older, the group shrank, and we moved away from games at the GW store (this was around the time a new manager started and decreed no more game days unless you were new). We moved into trying Bolt Action, which picked up pretty quickly, and when one of the group got a 3-D printer, things took off again.
We tried Battlefleet Heresy, which stuck for a while, Mordheim a couple of times with mostly kitbashed warbands, Epic 40k before Legions Imperialis came out, and I think a couple tried Trench Crusade.
Basically, the "no-regulars" policy moved us into more options, which later the manager claimed was the point, so he wasn't taking money away from other stores that had rentable tables.

 Gert wrote:

Basically, the "no-regulars" policy moved us into more options, which later the manager claimed was the point, so he wasn't taking money away from other stores that had rentable tables.

I'm not familiar with the "no-regulars" policy...

The GW I used to go to as a young un and slightly older young un moved to what was an unwritten "no-regulars" policy shortly after a new manager took over just pre-Covid times.

What used to be "Saturday Warlords" got turned into "Whatever system needs selling Day". Our group was pretty heavily doing HH and MESBG at this point after Calth/Prospero and the MESBG revival, so we largely stopped going. The one time I did go it was a "Movie Marine" thing for the entire day which wasn't advertised the manager just wanted to do it to try and sell Kill Team

All props to them they actually run the store like a business rather than a clubhouse and made record profits at the location every year after that. The staff were also running ragged before the new manager took over with special club nights running Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and alternating Thursdays. They basically worked 12 hours days with one 20 min break that paid them for 9 hours.

Business side they did what was asked. Community side our group fractured because we didn't have a place that was easy for everyone to get to anymore.

The store I go to doesn't have a clubs or game nights... they recommend going to another store a couple of towns over... which is a little too far for me to travel to.

GW stores have indeed changed. Whether for the better is of course a matter of perspective and personal opinion.

During my time as a till monkey, you of course ran games, booked tables for people and often acted as a rules lawyer, or at least a tie breaking opinion. That could be fun. Helping other people to enjoy their hobby is after all, fun.

What wasn’t fun was having to deal with the Spoiled Brat and/or Big I Am kids (quite often, but not always, one and the same). That could mean knocking low level bullying on the head, telling said kid(s) “no” for what sometimes felt like the first time in their lives. And in one extreme case, children wetting and pooping themselves.

Throughout the various eras I did that job, it did get easier. Stores no longer accepted being a crèche whilst the parents effed off to go shopping (and in more than one rather depressing example, get drunk). Sure, you could drop your kid off for their game and didn’t have to hang around. But you were expected to collect them at the end of their time slot. If your kid had special needs (for instance autism) we would ask you to hang around or at the very least tell us (ref kid that pooped himself. A grim day all round).

Well run? A store that acted as an active hub for the hobby was a Good Thing. Nothing can help convince a parent to part with Cold Hard Cash quite like seeing a new hobby for their kid, which comes with a pre-made, centralised community for them to hopefully be welcome into.

But…even the most well run store would still end up with Awful Customers. Kids that would act out, swear and just generally be obnoxious little turds. Which naturally had quite the opposite effect.

And so it takes up staff time, time generally better spent doing intro activities and, Y’know, selling stuff.

Hobby nights weren’t always good for sales either. And those were my nights. Full Time IT Technician, Part Time Staffer. In the heady days of yoof, when I could indeed do a long work day, then do more work, and be absolutely fine on five hours sleep. So, I’d just let the game nights run on. Didn’t care about being paid, I was mostly in it for the discount after all, and it wasn’t my sole or even main source of income. I just….didn’t sell very much (always cashed up 8pm like a good boy). Which meant from a purely company POV? They were paying me for….not very much return.

There does exist a happy medium of course. There usually is.

But when as, presumably those paid to know about such things knew, the in-store gaming side wasn’t driving the success of the Shop side? I can see why it gave.

It not only meant reduced staff numbers and hours, but also smaller stores. If you just need your shelving and not shelving and space for a bunch of 6x4 tables? You just don’t need the same amount of space, especially if as stores seems to favour these days, you’re going for a clean, uncluttered look.

Will I always miss those often quite anarchic, heady halcyon days? Yes. No doubt about that. And it’s not just nostalgia. But I don’t think moving on from them was a foolish move.

For sure its MUCH harder for a single staffer on their own in a small store that might only have a couple of boards to play on to run hobby club level nights and such.

Honestly I don't blame GW for this - this is a fact of modern highstreet operational prices being insanely high compared to what they were in the 90s or so. Back then you could run a GW store with 3 or 4 staffers; larger tables and command a good spot on the highstreet for attention (and lets face it also parents feeling safe having their kids go too).

You had space to do lots of stuff and multiple staff to cover it.

Today the operational costs are just nuts on the highstreet and that filters into what GW can justify and afford to spend on renting space and hiring staff.



Honestly a good staffer would network with local schools/uni/clubs so that anyone keen can be directed toward where they can play and local clubs would support their local store(s) (own brand and 3rd party) since stores do help recruit new blood into the hobby.

There is also a balance - game nights mean long hours for one staffer and sure its not a night earning; at the same time if you don't have some game facility then what are all those "regular hours" purchases going toward. You've got to support the game being played and engaged with to support the game growing in sales.

Cyel wrote:

I believe it may be a syndrome for many players whose free time becomes shorter while bank accounts get fatter. Due to the lack of time for playing, the hobby of gaming has all the engagement transferred to the hobby of buying, especially as marketing teams know very well how to target such people.

In fact I was playing with an idea to start a topic about the ultraconsummerist nature of modern tabletop gaming (fast gaming, like fast fashion etc), but I was afraid that it may be perceived as provocative or inflammatory by some of our fellow users. The churn of "buy-play once-forget-buy another" is very real in my observations, though and I don't think it does the hobby any favours.

There's a few things at play here. For one, the internet naturally creates a fomo culture and not always intentionally or maliciously (though malicious forces will definitely steer people that way). You get to see a million monkeys all sharing the things they've discovered and want and its just not possible to see every show, visit every destination or play every game and its really hard not to feel like you're missing out. There are infinite viable option that makes it really hard to pick a lane. There's also just different motivations that drive people. I know I'm primarily driven by novelty and exploration and really take interest in see how the mechanics function. I like experimentation and don't get as much from replicating prior successes.

That said, the trap of buying things without the time to enjoy them is very real and something to be mindful of. I've been caught in it myself plenty of times, for many of the reasons you mention and taking the time to step back and decide how to refocus on what I have time to really play. Getting through my painting backlog largely involved figuring out how quickly I paint and limiting my purchases around that. Similarly I need to focus my collection down to how much I actually get games to the table. I've definitely made improvements in this area, but its not something I feel like I have mastered quite like I do managing my pile of shame.

I’ve never felt the gaming itself was essential to my hobby. If someone wants to play, I’ll leave my safe space to play them so long as:

-They know and explain the rules

-They either provide all the minis or they are willing to play against my unpainted minis.

-They provide the terrain or play on my half-finished, often unpainted terrain.