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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
I give leeway to proper visual attempts. Because deep down? We’re kind of like Orks. Whether it’s lore accurate or not? We do expect a big honking gun to act like a big honking gun in the movies.
Within reason of course. I think we’d all get justifiably grumpy if a squad of Marine rapid fired a Landraider to Deth. But exaggerated recoil and very loud Dakka? If it’s not there, it can be jarring.
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I would then present Astartes on the other end of the scale. With power armour and superhuman musculature, recoil should be virtually non existent. By its nature recoil messes with accuracy, so minimising it is important. I personally prefer the hyper competent image set out in Astartes, where all the movements are minimal and efficient, and each bolt hits a target.
Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
That I agree with. Because they pulled it off in such a stylish but still brutal manner.
I mean, the baddies are getting utterly spifflicated, but the Marines are doling that out with precise control. Not hitting any harder than is absolutely necessary, and visible calculation of who’s going to get it next.
I would like to see a Space Wolf equivalent where perhaps it’s Blood Claws being more rowdy, just for contrast.
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The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Well, it is the Imperium. Who needs tanks with ground clearance? Just rule of cool your way through the battlefield even though your tank design should get immediately stuck in the smallest ditch imaginable.
A Leman Russ has something comical like a 1 metre wide barrel bore and stores its ammunition in a pocket dimension, I can only assume.
So if heavy kickback looks cool, they'll have it, but it won't actually impair their aim of course.
There's also the fact that Space Marines are propaganda machines, there's always the possibility that Astartes Bolters have artificial kick built into them to convey the sense that they're much more powerful than they actually are
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
I don’t want to rule that out. But?
How would you achieve that?
I mean, to be struck by a Bolt shell is a quick if ingloriously messy way to go. And that’s the shock and awe intent of Astartes.
Sudden, explicit and irresistible ultra violence, with the ability and aptitude to do it more or less exactly where your armed forces least want it.
When any video/pict capture/whatever is showing your Noble Leader and His Noble Sidekicks just turning into a fine whatever your blood colour happens to be mist, whilst their assailants wade through a great deal of what you’ve got to throw at them? Is anyone really going to analyse the recoil of that gun that’s misting your alleged brightest and best?
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Ashiraya wrote: Well, it is the Imperium. Who needs tanks with ground clearance? Just rule of cool your way through the battlefield even though your tank design should get immediately stuck in the smallest ditch imaginable.
A Leman Russ has something comical like a 1 metre wide barrel bore and stores its ammunition in a pocket dimension, I can only assume.
So if heavy kickback looks cool, they'll have it, but it won't actually impair their aim of course.
Yeah, I kinda wish the video games properly scaled the vehicles since GW did always admit that their vehicle models are a little chibi-fied by the Heroic 28mm scale they use. A bit like how the more modern 40k models have toned down the Heroic scale on their miniatures and have some slightly more realistic proportions.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
For video games the models probably keep their proportions in order to match the kits they sell, just in case you want to buy them. Plus it keeps things looking consistent, cross franchise.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Video games are totally cool with rescaling things. Space Marines in Dawn of War II are essentially "true scale" (in terms of proportions), even though the game was released in 2009, long before Primaris were even a rumour. The Leman Russ on the other hand still had its ridiculous industrial chimney of a gun.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Oh that's just extremely common. Space Marines in artwork, just like in DoW2, tend to make the legs bigger and the heads smaller.
Sometimes, uh, excessively so.
Spoiler:
But worth mentioning that the miniatures have gone in this direction too. If I compare my 2022 MKVI Marines to MKVI models from the 2003 Tactical Squad, the main thing that stands out is the longer legs and smaller helmet. The latter is less obvious but you really notice it when swapping between them for conversions.
I was actually thinking of digging up some of those works the other day, because 10 Marines proportioned like that would definitely fit in a Rhino. I think there was a whole series of books with that style on the cover, yeah? Was it the Chapter specific 8.5 releases? Maybe the "collectors edition" versions.
I think it goes to show that the overall shape of a Space Marine has a fairly broad range of acceptable interpretation. This might be in contrast to other things, like vehicles. Like you mentioned, the Leman Russ in DOWII looks more or less like a 1-1 copy of the model.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
I think in the case of Space Marines they get so damn much artwork done for them, and because it's initially established that the miniature is deliberately out of proportion for the sake of readability and paintability (the way most infantry are, whereas for example on a Predator all components are probably correctly scaled to each other), you get a huge amount of variation just from that.
There is actually a fair amount of variation in, say, Tyranid proportions in artwork too. But because they're not human, we don't pay that much attention to it.
Ashiraya wrote: I think in the case of Space Marines they get so damn much artwork done for them, and because it's initially established that the miniature is deliberately out of proportion for the sake of readability and paintability (the way most infantry are, whereas for example on a Predator all components are probably correctly scaled to each other), you get a huge amount of variation just from that.
There is actually a fair amount of variation in, say, Tyranid proportions in artwork too. But because they're not human, we don't pay that much attention to it.
Agree about the Marines and the Nids, but disagree about models like the Predator. I say that because 40K tank models look positively wacky if you put them next to an actual scale model kit of a real tank. Probably even moreso if they're next to a model that's in the equivalent scale.
It would probably be a really fun exercise to 3d print some scale models of a M113, an Abrams, a BMP or similar things in the scale that the 40k scale tanks are in, and just see what they look like.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/05/27 21:25:45
I know this was mentioned long ago, but is 'Depleted deuterium' not just plain hydrogen?
More to the topic, one of the advantages of gyrojet ammo is low recoil, so it would not make sense for it to obliterate someone's arm.
That being said, there is also the possibility of low-recoil ammo for normal humans; and higher-powered ammo for Astartes. A bit more recoil, but also a bit more power. That would give you extra punch with the same caliber (Good for logistics!)
Ashiraya wrote: I think in the case of Space Marines they get so damn much artwork done for them, and because it's initially established that the miniature is deliberately out of proportion for the sake of readability and paintability (the way most infantry are, whereas for example on a Predator all components are probably correctly scaled to each other), you get a huge amount of variation just from that.
There is actually a fair amount of variation in, say, Tyranid proportions in artwork too. But because they're not human, we don't pay that much attention to it.
Agree about the Marines and the Nids, but disagree about models like the Predator. I say that because 40K tank models look positively wacky if you put them next to an actual scale model kit of a real tank. Probably even moreso if they're next to a model that's in the equivalent scale.
It would probably be a really fun exercise to 3d print some scale models of a M113, an Abrams, a BMP or similar things in the scale that the 40k scale tanks are in, and just see what they look like.
Well, by "correct" I mean "correct to intent". It doesn't mean they don't look silly, but it means GW has not purposely adjusted the size of any parts from how they envision them for the sake of painting, readability and so on.
Predators in artwork look much more consistent with the miniatures than Space Marines do.
Ashiraya wrote: I think in the case of Space Marines they get so damn much artwork done for them, and because it's initially established that the miniature is deliberately out of proportion for the sake of readability and paintability (the way most infantry are, whereas for example on a Predator all components are probably correctly scaled to each other), you get a huge amount of variation just from that.
There is actually a fair amount of variation in, say, Tyranid proportions in artwork too. But because they're not human, we don't pay that much attention to it.
Agree about the Marines and the Nids, but disagree about models like the Predator. I say that because 40K tank models look positively wacky if you put them next to an actual scale model kit of a real tank. Probably even moreso if they're next to a model that's in the equivalent scale.
It would probably be a really fun exercise to 3d print some scale models of a M113, an Abrams, a BMP or similar things in the scale that the 40k scale tanks are in, and just see what they look like.
Well, by "correct" I mean "correct to intent". It doesn't mean they don't look silly, but it means GW has not purposely adjusted the size of any parts from how they envision them for the sake of painting, readability and so on.
Predators in artwork look much more consistent with the miniatures than Space Marines do.
Riiiight, . . but I think this goes to show that they're aiming purely for aesthetics and not any realism. This is why, in the other thread, I say the Rhino is big enough, because the volume it actually occupies is positively gigantic. You could absolutely use that volume to fit 10 "realistically proportioned" Space Marines. The rub is that not only are the Space Marine models not realistically proportioned, but the Rhino is also designed for aesthetics and paintablity as a "heroically scaled" model, rather than engineered to use its volume to actually do it's job.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/05/27 22:10:36
Ashiraya wrote: I think in the case of Space Marines they get so damn much artwork done for them, and because it's initially established that the miniature is deliberately out of proportion for the sake of readability and paintability (the way most infantry are, whereas for example on a Predator all components are probably correctly scaled to each other), you get a huge amount of variation just from that.
There is actually a fair amount of variation in, say, Tyranid proportions in artwork too. But because they're not human, we don't pay that much attention to it.
Agree about the Marines and the Nids, but disagree about models like the Predator. I say that because 40K tank models look positively wacky if you put them next to an actual scale model kit of a real tank. Probably even moreso if they're next to a model that's in the equivalent scale.
It would probably be a really fun exercise to 3d print some scale models of a M113, an Abrams, a BMP or similar things in the scale that the 40k scale tanks are in, and just see what they look like.
Well, by "correct" I mean "correct to intent". It doesn't mean they don't look silly, but it means GW has not purposely adjusted the size of any parts from how they envision them for the sake of painting, readability and so on.
Predators in artwork look much more consistent with the miniatures than Space Marines do.
I don't think that's true though. The heavy bolter is supposed to be 25mm isn't it? Those are *not* 25mm gun barrels in the sponsons.
I think vehicles remain more consistent in artistic depictions because squiffy vehicle proportions don't stick out to people in the same way that humanoid proportions do
And I don't think any model or artistic depiction is intended to represent some "real" state of the universe. GW is a model company and everything flows out of the models. GW designs their models the way they do for the aesthetics, mixed with production capabilities of the time. The lore is then written to give context to the models, or even where models are made to reflect prior lore they usually adjust the lore to fit their model after the fact.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2026/05/28 09:19:25
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
25mm isn't really a consistent number (and honestly I doubt any GW artist has bothered to look at any such numbers when drawing anything - and I am going all the way back to the 90s when I say this, even the early editions didn't exactly have "realistic" art).
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, IIRC regular Bolters were .75 cal and Heavy Bolters were 1.00/25mm caliber.
Really just all Vehicle mounted weapons are far too large relative to the hull in 40k miniatures. The hulls should be 25-30% stretched in every dimension to match. This would also solve the "how can you fit 10 marines in a Rhino" problem.
But then the justification is that vehicles would look boring or something... Or too much like real world vehicles....
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Hugely inflated weapons is a staple of 40k (and most fantasy media).
For all we can argue about the recoil of a bolter, it's a weapon as large as the Guardsman's chest. Is it built of styrofoam or something? And for only a 0.75cal weapon?
Star Wars at least started as a film franchise so had that emphasis on weapons looking good and realistic in the hands of real people. 40k starting as a tabletop miniatures game meant the weapons priority was looking good from 3ft away on a tabletop which is a *very* different design context.
Honestly 40k vehicle hulls aren't even that small. Part of the issue with the Rhino is half the interior is just wasted empty space with the track units and everything. That and Marines have about doubled in size since the Rhino was sculpted. Plus also infantry is based and vehicles aren't, which again makes the vehicles look smaller in comparison.
Good demonstration of how "40K vehicle models are too small" is seriously misguided. People really have no clue what size real military vehicles are.
To be fair, the M5 Stuart in that video is a very small and cramped light tank, a class of vehicle 40k doesn't really have but perhaps equivalent to like a landspeeder?
A tank like a Leman Russ would probably be a T-28 or Neubaufahrzeug or something and those things are big beasts
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2026/05/28 14:42:17
kirotheavenger wrote: Hugely inflated weapons is a staple of 40k (and most fantasy media).
For all we can argue about the recoil of a bolter, it's a weapon as large as the Guardsman's chest. Is it built of styrofoam or something? And for only a 0.75cal weapon?
Star Wars at least started as a film franchise so had that emphasis on weapons looking good and realistic in the hands of real people. 40k starting as a tabletop miniatures game meant the weapons priority was looking good from 3ft away on a tabletop which is a *very* different design context.
Yeah. If the live action Amazon series ever materialises, it will be very interesting to see how the weapon props are modelled in that.
To be fair, the M5 Stuart in that video is a very small and cramped light tank, a class of vehicle 40k doesn't really have but perhaps equivalent to like a landspeeder?
A tank like a Leman Russ would probably be a T-28 or Neubaufahrzeug or something and those things are big beasts
Sure, though Leman Russ is still quite significantly larger than those tanks. (It is about the same length, but a lot wider and higher.)
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