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I have noticed with the new style of codexi. As each codex gets released, the game designers have made the HQ section bigger and bigger and where it dwarfs the rest of the selections combined. I saw this with Demons, Eldar, and now Space Marines. Is GW trying to encourage herohammer? Its funny for a game that is supposed to emphasize troops that you have most of the codexi with 1-3 troop choices but almost double or more in HQs.

I guess they skipped Orks and Dark Angels then.

i play nids mainly, not much HQ choice in there
allthough 2 flyrants seem the best.

thehod wrote: I have noticed with the new style of codexi. As each codex gets released, the game designers have made the HQ section bigger and bigger and where it dwarfs the rest of the selections combined. I saw this with Demons, Eldar, and now Space Marines. Is GW trying to encourage herohammer? Its funny for a game that is supposed to emphasize troops that you have most of the codexi with 1-3 troop choices but almost double or more in HQs.

There is some of that, a while back Jervis had an editorial where his son got into Blood Angels because he like Mephistion. Which led to the revalation that cool, interesting heroes can sell armies.

Although there are some overpowered heroes out there the other factor is using heroes to change the army composition. The old herohammer had indestructable guys wading through whole armies. The new style actually has them acting as leaders, affecting the whole force not just being one-man armies.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The old herohammer had indestructable guys wading through whole armies.

It sure did, didn't it?

Ah, my old Terminator Librarian, with Iron Arm and the Quickening...

But yes, using your HQ selection to modify your overall army theme is now the thing at GW.

I always preferred the teleporting Inquisitor with Vortex powers.

I never played 2nd edition, but the Exarch powers portion of the Eldar seemed really nice.

Codex Creep used to be an unfortuante side effect of Codex design. Now it's their goal.

BYE

I don't know, I would put up either a Tyrant or a Flyrant against just about any other HQ (other than a Ctan) and expect a good fight and that was one of the first codices for 4th. Broodlord was a big disappointment though, mostly because he nerfs the genestealers fof that he is forced to take .

I still hope Abbadon will remain a singularly awesome choice even while I decide upon an Grey Knight or a Black Templar amry as my future army

H.B.M.C. wrote:Codex Creep used to be an unfortuante side effect of Codex design. Now it's their goal.

BYE

Making me complain used to be an unfortunate side effect of doing anything. Now it's their goal!

Codex creep doesn't exist. Yeah you can get a 250 point marneus calgar, or rig a chapter master to be some sort of bronzed god and oddly enough it will still get the crap kicked out of it by a hive tyrant/dreadnaut/big demon at 50 or more points less. It's even more amusing now that your rough man with a jetpack now just sits in place after breaking a squad of fire warriors only to get shot to death on the return. Forced consolodation destroyed herohammer.

It is interesting that they now have a dozen headquarters choices though. The codex was pretty clearly designed to allow for most of the other sub armies to be useable as "counts as" lists. Thats probably why they aren't bothering to FAQ the older books (though they really should just come out and say it).

I sort of like having multiple HQ choices if it changes the feel of your army. Then again I come from a Warmachine background where I like how you can build armies around a single leader to have a different play style.

ShumaGorath wrote:Codex creep doesn't exist.

I like to think the same about you Shummy, but sadly that's not true either.

BYE

ShumaGorath wrote:

Codex creep doesn't exist.

Not anymore it doenst....

After seeing the new space marine 'dex, it needs to be re-dubbed "Codex Leap" for the gargantuan leaps in power level.

I belive the "HQ creep" you are seeing in recent releases in both 40K and Fantasy (going as far back as the Orks and vampire books) is in direct response to Warmachine/Hordes. Inthose games every army is lead by a unique named character. While there is a wide variaty of supporting tropps to choose from, even if you chose the same troops and simply changed leaders the army would play differently. Nobody in those games questioned why a named charactwer was in every battle, everyone just accepted it. I believe GW is coping this with their new selection of named characters that no longer require opponent's permission. I expect every codex and army book that comes out from now on to include named characters that change the way each army is played to a match a secondary playstyle of that army. But that there will also be the generic build your own heros in every list.

I think Zac is on the right track. It is an observation from Warmachine/Hordes that the single character can affect how your army plays and is a significant part to one's army.

Requiring opponent's permission and banning them in tourneys made no sense as they are factors that would deter a person from buying the expensive special character for their army. Why GW did this for so long, thus impacting their own sales is something I never understood.

Because of this, I've actually seen several different characters used in Eldar, Orks, Demons and Dark Angels. Kind of cool, IMO.

I personally dont mind having a really custom HQ, i usually theme my 40k army aroung him/her(eldar), tho i would like more choice (although eldar has heaps, just not in the troops but still a few), i would like to see every race leaving marines to dead last, get more options and model releases

Has anyone complaining about Herohammer now actually run into a Glaive or Siren prince?

yeah,
I don't think it matters, they are just offering choice for themes.
even if you had 25 HQ choices you only have 2 HQ slots. not exactly herohammer is it?

Done.
Panic...

i still like the ghazghkull canon, throw 5-10 megnobz with him, get em into combat and watch them crush anything in thier way.
if they walk or thier wagon gets blown up make sure they are armed with kombi rokkits and let armour av it!

does a HQ's guard count? if so then i use characters alot :(

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

The old herohammer had indestructable guys wading through whole armies.

Yeah can anyone remember the 2nd ed codex imperialis rules for a bloodthirster, it was approximately
Wings, causes terror,
WS8 BS5 S10 T10 W8 I10 A7 LD10 4+sv plus all the goodies granted by being khornate, it was nigh on unstoppable!

Deadshane1 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Codex creep doesn't exist.

Not anymore it doenst....

After seeing the new space marine 'dex, it needs to be re-dubbed "Codex Leap" for the gargantuan leaps in power level.

Yeah because getting rid of las/plas, making the basic anti infantry predator cost what it always should have and making venerable dreads cost ~200 points kitted out is such a leap in power. Oh noes, things have higher stat lines, they are also across the board more expensive (except the predator) and much more difficult to minmax. Cry more, oh wait this is Dakka. You will anyway. I can' think of a codex that has ever been released that didn't have the people on this board crying about creep.

Tau Empire.

Witch Hunters.

Dark Angels, surely?

Kilkrazy wrote:Tau Empire.

I've heard some codex creep complaints on that one in reference to fifth edition and marker lights and vehicle upgrades.

Dark Angels, surely?

I'm not counting white dwarf chapter approved lists that somehow got their own book.

Witch Hunters.

Sadly, like the Tau I've heard plenty of complaints about sisters in fifth (FLAMERHEAVYBOLTERWALL).

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Tau Empire.

I've heard some codex creep complaints on that one in reference to fifth edition and marker lights and vehicle upgrades.

That's not codex creep, it's edition creep. Tau Empire codex came out 30 months ago. Codex creep means advancement in power of newly written codexes.

New Chaos.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Dark Angels, surely?

I'm not counting white dwarf chapter approved lists that somehow got their own book.

I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.

To be fair, I agree that new chaos was a step down in terms of power, but I think there was still complaining about Lash etc.
(I hate Lash. I hate that that one upgrade is the supposed answer to every problem with the book. I've no interest in playing a Slaaneshi force)