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The SW codex has been made available to GW staff for perusal/ feedback.

One of the store managers in Brisbane was going to download it today (so he didn't know what was in it when I was there).

Therefore it must be getting quite far into the development phase/final fixes.

That's new - when I worked for GW the staff were usually the last ones to know anything.

We certainly weren't given pre-release stuff and asked for input on it.


Does this herald a new dawn of playtesting? Will GW staff be able to spot the broken/nerfed stuff as easily as the rest of us?
And more importantly, will the dev team pay a blind bit of notice to any feedback they get?

It was unclear if it was the finished codex (ala the leaked PDFs we've been seeing for WHFB) or a beta for the codex (i.e. rules only).

Back in 1999/2000 when I was in the UK I had guys giving me every codex months in advance. I mailed the Tyranid codex 6 months in advance of release to Russ when dakka had a bricks and mortar store nd the only change was the pricing of the wings for the hive tyrant.

Its probably another BA style WD codex. Thus the design studio probably doesn't get to spend as much time on it as they otherwise would. This might just be preliminary to a full codex further up the road.

aka_mythos wrote:Its probably another BA style WD codex. Thus the design studio probably doesn't get to spend as much time on it as they otherwise would. This might just be preliminary to a full codex further up the road.

No it's a full up codex.

IIRC it's the rules/army list and not the final version which is a little way off yet.

Thank God it's not a WD Codex. I'd hate to see the Space Wolves pass us by without a Black Templar/Dark Angel style plastic conversion kit.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thank God it's not a WD Codex. I'd hate to see the Space Wolves pass us by without a Black Templar/Dark Angel style plastic conversion kit.

BYE

Oh come on, SWs got the first conversion kit ever.

I'd rather GW do a traitor IG conversion kit or something new.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thank God it's not a WD Codex. I'd hate to see the Space Wolves pass us by without a Black Templar/Dark Angel style plastic conversion kit.

BYE

I'd rather GW do a traitor IG conversion kit or something new.

if only ....

I wonder how GW will decide how much (if any) of the new kit from the SM Codex to give to Space Wolves.

Probably most of it will be in there (got to sell models!), thereby hacking off legions (!) of DA, and to a lesser extent, BA players.

And I'd have to imagine that the existing SW upgrade sprue will be re-cut, so possibly not even a fully new thing there either.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thank God it's not a WD Codex. I'd hate to see the Space Wolves pass us by without a Black Templar/Dark Angel style plastic conversion kit.

BYE

Oh come on, SWs got the first conversion kit ever.

I'd rather GW do a traitor IG conversion kit or something new.

Traitor guard? What's that? Everybody knows guard never ever go traitor (except in Apocalypse).

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Oh come on, SWs got the first conversion kit ever.

I'd rather GW do a traitor IG conversion kit or something new.

Yeah, 4 heads/1 helmet, 5 chest plates, one backpack, and some weapons any Marine could use. SWEET!

I want something a bit more "2008" in terms of content, not "2000".

dienekes96 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Oh come on, SWs got the first conversion kit ever.

I'd rather GW do a traitor IG conversion kit or something new.

Yeah, 4 heads/1 helmet, 5 chest plates, one backpack, and some weapons any Marine could use. SWEET!

I want something a bit more "2008" in terms of content, not "2000".

d00d if you're talking Space Woofs you're looking for circa 1994 content.

Now if GW does a Celestial Lions or Relicators sprue I'd be on that like @#$% on @#$%.

Boo hoo, I want a BA sprue!

So someone beat up a store manager and get this stuff on here! Does this mean a SW codex is closer to done than we suspected?

God I hope so! I just painted up a whole army of SWs!

I guess GW just can't resist releasing a new marine codex every year. If its this next year I imagine its in the last half of the year.

It will be interesting to see what Space Wolves end up with. I just hope they make them more unique and not just a list of USRs. They will probably get something that will allow them to play 13th company, even if only in spirit and not in name. I don't imagine it will be the same sort of special character centric codex as the Marine Codex; how many ways can a single chapter vary itself. Special Character will probably do less of the granting army wide rules and go more for modifying individual squads (like granting infiltrate).

From the model side of it, I imagine they will redo the SW accessories sprue and probably do or include a vehicle accesories on a sprue. I would love to see them get a unique vehicle, now that everyone has venerable dreadnoughts, idk like a LandRaider with no sponsons but can hold 20 marines or just something. Some of the special characters will most likely get redone.

Without GW pulling a real rabbit out of the hat, I don't see there being too much to do, modelwise, for the SW. I doubt they have enough to get a second wave of releases.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The SW codex has been made available to GW staff for perusal/ feedback.

Therefore it must be getting quite far into the development phase/final fixes.

Wot? MOAR Spaz Marinz? Nuu....

Time-line, that puts SW as early 2009, which makes perfect sense. SW are the last Codex that requires the SM Codex, but having bitz sprue makes them an easy "new" Codex to release and break the last SM Codex dependency. A quick recut to match the BT sprue and repack takes care of the models (e.g. Blood Claws = 2 sets 5 Assault Marine bodies with SW accessories instead of JP accessories).

Plus, it explains why BA got their WD Codex update (not having a bitz sprue, BA need a quick rules fix, so prepping a full Codex with models doesn't make sense).

It also explains why GW doesn't care about current SW Codex changes tied to the new SM Codex.


I'll be curious to see the rules changes come out. I suspect that:
- no more 1 HQ per 500 pts
- Venerable Dread brought into line
- Grey Hunters gain Combat Squads
- Scouts get simplified, cannot be joined by ICs
- Wulfen appear ~BA DC
- 13th Company appear ~LotD
- NO Exterminator, but a new LR / Pred variant...
and of course, no Armoury / Wargear...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Now if GW does a Relicators sprue I'd be on that like @#$% on @#$%.

Hell, yeah!

If GW actually did a Relictors army, I'd start one.

The idea of the return of a Bajorn The Fell Hand Model just fill me with glee.
After reading through the Space Marine Codex I now have a good feeling about how they will do Space Wolves. Now to wait. Some more. At least SW will get a Codex this edition.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The SW codex has been made available to GW staff for perusal/ feedback.

One of the store managers in Brisbane was going to download it today (so he didn't know what was in it when I was there).

Therefore it must be getting quite far into the development phase/final fixes.

Waaagh, you are a light in the darkness

I seriously doubt that SW will get Combat Squads. That was incorporated into the DA, BA and SM codices for fluff reasons. The SW don't follow the Codex Astartes.

Technically neither do the other Chapters you listed. At least, not strictly. I hope they don't though. It's a bit silly for a space wolves army (though they had it in 2nd edition).

Edit: Don't drink and type.

I think the biggest pit fall this codex has to avoid is the syndrom of "the main codex has it, so should the SW... but better." I think the Wulfen are a good alternative to SW having Stern- and Van-gard, adds some more uniqueness.

Who are all the current special characters for SW?

I doubt they'll get "combat squads" cause don't the SW have larger squad sizes for some units than the standard 10? it would make it a little pointless.

Good points!

SW's will probably not get Sternguard and/or Vanguard, but Grey Hunters and Blood Claws will get buffed somehow.

I can see them NOT getting the MotF and other tech marine toys too...

But something else in return?

I am looking forward to having a truly NON-CODEX chapter to build from...

aka_mythos wrote:I think the biggest pit fall this codex has to avoid is the syndrom of "the main codex has it, so should the SW... but better."

That is what is called "the codex creep", the existence of which GW denies emphatically. But we all know it happens. Every new codex is usually a little bit more powerful than the last one.

Archonate wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I think the biggest pit fall this codex has to avoid is the syndrom of "the main codex has it, so should the SW... but better."

That is what is called "the codex creep", the existence of which GW denies emphatically. But we all know it happens. Every new codex is usually a little bit more powerful than the last one.

Not to derail this thread, but while codex creep happened in early 3rd edition it's been far less prevelent. Even in it's peak, it was mostly the "supplements" that caused the creep. Things like Blood angels being better than regular marines with no draw back, the craftworld eldar codex, etc.

Don't confuse "we haven't figured out how to beat them yet" with codex creep. additionally, dont' confuse being actually written for the environment with codex creep. Necrons aren't weaker because every other codex since them was stronger, they're weaker because glancing hits don't mean what they used to. IG still pay prices for their Chimeras as if they were scoring units.

I'm imagining Wolves will be pretty standalone, with few of the rules from the basic SM book. I can see them keeping ATSKNF, but everything else will be homegrown. Theses guys are more unorthodox than even the Templars. Of course, the existence of Templars is the real wrench in the works. Was there are a more unnecessary new codex than templars? How many mechanized, good in combat, large squad loving, codex astartes ignoring chapters do we really need?

From a rules perspective, I agree with a few of the above posters. No Sternguard or Rearguard, just flavors of Wolf Guard. No Combat Squads...that is a Codex thing.

Wolf Scouts will be special, and hopefully Wulfen will make a limited appearance (made less limited by a 13th Character build).

Special Characters currently:
Bjorn the Fell-Handed
Logan Grimnar
Ragnar Blackmane
Ulrik the Slayer

2nd edition had a few more, including Ranulf, Njal, and some ex-Wolf Kings.

BT is an odd one. The army is more about their visual appeal than a major rules difference. Their big thing is mixed squads (Scouts and Troops). I don't begrudge them their book, but do wish BA had gotten love first.

Time will tell, but I do look forward to a new SW model range and art.

I think any army done as standalone should really recieve as many characters as any other codex; I mean I hate to see them short change SW just because they're another marine army and the design staff can't be bothered to come up with unique rules for yet another character. If they're worth doing at all, they're worth giving them everything that they deserve.

If Wulfen or some unit like them isn't in the main body of the list, I could easily see them get a treatment similar to the Legion of the Damned, a special unit.

It'll be curious to see what GW does about the inclusion of Leman Russ tanks; I think the Exterminator is gone, but I could see them getting some other variant. I've always thought it would be appropriate to do away with SW's vindicator and predator options in lieu of Leman Russ Battle tanks and variants.

I bet that Wolfen will be elites with a chance to make them troops with a Special Character from the 13th Co.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

aka_mythos wrote:It'll be curious to see what GW does about the inclusion of Leman Russ tanks; I think the Exterminator is gone, but I could see them getting some other variant. I've always thought it would be appropriate to do away with SW's vindicator and predator options in lieu of Leman Russ Battle tanks and variants.

I think it'll depend largely upon whatever options are included in the rumored new Leman Russ kit put out for IG.

Polonius wrote:Was there are a more unnecessary new codex than templars? How many mechanized, good in combat, large squad loving, codex astartes ignoring chapters do we really need?

BT's were popular because of their Armageddon list. It was a powerful list that a lot of people liked. Problem is when they made the actual BT Codex, they toned them down quite a bit, making them not as powerful, and therefore not as popular, therefore Graham McNeil stopped writing Codices.

BYE