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So, a friend is trying his hardest to get me into warhammer, and he recommended I post my first army list here for review.
The White Spine Clan
HQ
Warboss with Big Choppa, Slugga, Attack Squig, Cybork Body
80 Points

Stompy-Bug (Trukk; Dedicated Transport) with big shoota, red paint job and reinforced ram
45
12 Ork Boyz
With sluggas and choppas
1 is a Nob with ‘eavy Armor and a Power Klaw
112

Stompy-Bug (Trukk; Dedicated Transport) with big shoota, red paint job and reinforced ram
45
12 Ork Boyz
With sluggas and choppas
1 is a Nob with ‘eavy Armor and a Power Klaw
112

10 Ork Stormboyz
1 is a Nob with Power Klaw
145

Looted Wagon
With two Big Shootas, red paint job, wreckin’ ball, and grabbin klaw
65
Carrying
A Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field, Grot Oiler, and Cybork Body
95
5 Ork Nobz
One is a Painboy with a Grot Orderly
One with a Big-Choppa, a Waaaagh! Banner and a Cybork Body
One with a Big-Choppa, a Twin-Linked Shoota, a Cybork Body
One with a Big-Choppa, a Shoota/Skorcha and a Cybork Body
One iwith a Big-Choppa, a Shoota/Rokkit and a Cybork Body
200

Deffkopta with a kustom mega-blasta
40
Deffkopta with a twin-linked rokkit launcha
45

Edit: Fixed Invalid things and tried to incorporate comments.
Edit: Rebuilt as kult of speed

Since I'm new and have more or less limited resources, I can only change some of the army, I think more of my hope is to hear advice on how best to make use of the list as I have it.

Thanks

First things first, lets get the invalid list things out of the way:

Only 1 boyz mob in the army is allowed to be upgraded to 'ard boyz, and you have to upgrade the WHOLE unit, not 1 or 2 model. The maximum size of a stormboyz squad is 15 models (inc nob), oh and tankbusta nobz can't have a tankhammer.

At 1000pts ditch the stikkbombs on the mobs, aint worth it for the points (i know it negates the always strike last when assaulting in cover, but lets face it you will be striking last most of the time anyway).

Very good on the diversified deffkoptas, keep them safer for longer if run as a single unit, good tactic.

Ditch the 'eavy armor on the warboss, instead take cybork body which gives a 5+ invulnerable save, it's better to have a 5+ all the time that 4+ some of the time.

Are your units of boyz armed with a slugga+choppa or shootas? if they have shootas, keep the heavy weapons, if they are armed with sluggas + choppas, ditch the heavy weapons as you don't want to be shooting, you want to be running!



Now then, take all these freed points and use them to put power klaws on your boyz mob nobz and warboss, then invest the rest of the points in increasing the size of your boyz mobs.

What kind of a list do you want?

This list is a little scattered, i would suggest asking for help with a theme of orks, then we can give much better insight.

My two copper:

on the warboss, I'd lose the shoota, just a waste of points. also a power fist would be handy, not just for the str 10 PF, but because it ignores armor!

stikkbombs are a large points sink, kinda worthless as your hitting after/simo with everything in the game. also bosspoles havent proved themselves worth it to me, by the time a squad needs the reroll there usually dead allready. and power fists! right now someone can charge a dread into your unit and tarpit them to death!

i like the stormboyz, the nob doesn't need the armor, so you can free up some more points there.

i field deffkoptas occasionally, 3 units of 1 deffkopta with twin rokkits are an excellent distraction for an opponent, and they might shake/stun something if your lucky!

tankbustas are a silly unit, so many points for so few BS 2 str 8 shots.
I would swap the tankbustas with a unit of burna boyz, spring for a looted wagon with extra armor and red paint if you can find the points.

So, first, thanks everyone for the help and comments.
@Leigen: Tried to fix the invalid things, and I incorporated your advice on the heavy weapons and the stikkbombs. I didn't incorporate the Cybork because my model is for a non-cybork...maybe I'll work on that at some point.

@Stubby: Well, I don't really know is the thing. I'm new to the game and all I really know is the general idea that orks are shooty and stabby and I chose the ones that I liked out of the codex...what are the major themes to work with.

@Smarteye: Thanks for the advice on tankbustas and shooters, I also tried to incorporate a wagon.

Well i think the most fun to play themes for orks are

Battlewagon - Several Battlewagons covered by a KFF as they bring the hurt to the enemy in the form of Diversified Nob Squads, Burna Boys, and Normal boys all mounted in battlewagons. Most likely Supported by suicide Koptas and lootas. Look up Dashofpepper on here for a general look into this.

Nob Bikers: diversified nobs on bikes are nothing to shake a stick at. you're basically running 2 warbosses and 2 mobs of nobs on bikes at 1500 points, At higher points values i would add a Burna boy wagon and some loota support.

This can also be done pretty cheaply, get a box of nobs, and two of the new fantasy Boar boy boxes, and some biker bases, use the nobs equipment on the boar boys and you have some snakebite nob bikers <3. Below is an example of what you want to do.

Nob 1: Painboy
Nob 2: Bosspole
Nob 3: Waaaugh! Banner + Ammo Runt
Nob 4: Powerklaw
Nob 5: Powerklaw + Kombi-Rokkit
Nob 6: Powerklaw + Kombi-Rokkit + Ammo Runt
Nob 7: Big Choppa
Nob 8: Big Choppa + Kombi-Rokkit
Nob 9: Big Choppa + Kombi-Rokkit + Ammo Runt

Step 1: Tailor it to your liking.
Step 2: Put them all on bikes.
Step 3: Give them Cybork Bodies.
Step 4: Multiply it by two.
Step 5: Add two warbosses on bikes.

Kan wall - This is what i currently run, and i love every second of it, I pull off strong alpha strikes, good shooting, and can pull of some relatively good assault, all in one list.

The main part of the kan wall revolves around 9 Killakans, Equiped with either Rokkits or grotzookas (I run 6 with rokkits and 3 with grotzookas) And then 2 KFF bigmeks that give this wall of armor a 4+ save, then you hide 2-3 hoards of shoota boys behind them, they also get a 4+ save. Back them up with lootas, possibly snikrot (I do) and some suicide Koptas - My personal favorite - and voila! Sit back and kick ass.

Burgwatzk wrote:So, first, thanks everyone for the help and comments.
@Leigen: Tried to fix the invalid things, and I incorporated your advice on the heavy weapons and the stikkbombs. I didn't incorporate the Cybork because my model is for a non-cybork...maybe I'll work on that at some point.

So is mine, as long as the opponent is made clearly aware of this fact before the game begins then it should be fine! In fact, of all the ork players in my areas, I think only one actually had any sort of obvious bionic parts!

Alright, that would be good...I'm going to have to be asking people for proxy leniency anyway. As for Cyborks though, I have to wonder, it seems like eavy armor is better, it's 5 points less and gives a save of 4+ instead of 5+, it's not an invlunerable save, but how often is that important?

Burgwatzk wrote:Alright, that would be good...I'm going to have to be asking people for proxy leniency anyway. As for Cyborks though, I have to wonder, it seems like eavy armor is better, it's 5 points less and gives a save of 4+ instead of 5+, it's not an invlunerable save, but how often is that important?

There is a whole tons of Ap4 weapons.

Cybork is nice.

You may find the link in my sig helpful. Many people getting into Orks have found it to be so.

*deep breath*

OP: Welcome to the Waaaugh!

You said that you didn't know what kind of theme you wanted in your Ork army. Put on your reading glasses for the lecture.
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First of all, orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian.

Here's a quick take on those various lists I mentioned. Please remember something important: Every list needs to be tailored for point allocations. What I'm putting down here is an "optimized" list where you get the maximum ability from it, so if you're playing a 1,000 point gunline, three full squads of Lootas + supporting units and troop choices isn't really what you're going to play. You'll have to tweak to match your needs.

Green Tide:
Green tide is actually an apocalypse battle formation, but is a common name for a foot-slogging ork army list. It consists of mobs of 30 shoota boys, a nob with a powerklaw, and either a unit of gretchin or a unit of boyz or 'Ard Boyz (maybe even with Mad Dok) screened across the front to give the rest of the army a 4+ cover save as they advance up the board.

Mechanized Assault:
12 slugga boyz+Nob/PK stacked into trukks, perhaps some battlewagons in the mix, covered by a Big Mek with a KFF...an elite unit or two (kommandos, lootas, burnas) tacked into the mix depending on your personal playstyle - they get into close combat as fast as orkishly possible; with Ghazghkull leading the mix, that's usually turn2.

Mechanized Shooting:
Instead of slugga boys, you have shoota boys, preferably in battlewagons, with a KFF screening them, rolling around the battlefield pouring firepower into enemy units. Alternatively, (and one of my favorite setups) this is 3 Loota squads inside battlewagons sitting on the back table edge, Big mek with KFF in the middle one in a trident formation \|/ to present front armor across the battlefield, surrounded by a unit of gretchin to prevent assaults on rear armor.


Ork Gunline:
Three squads of Lootas form the backbone of this, either sitting in cover or with a screening unit to give them a 4+ cover save, heavy support of big guns or some dreads/kans to provide long range firepower, with the obligatory shoota boy squads.


Kan wall:
One of the current meta-game favorites: Three squads of three killa-kans, protected by a KFF mek (or two) marching up the field screening mobs of shoota boys behind them.


Dreadz of Fury:
Three DeffDreads for Heavy Support + 2 Deff Dreads for troop choices, with a KFF mek screening them for a 4+ cover save, set for either long ranged fire support or close ranged pwnage; I prefer the STR10 DCCWs.


Kult of Speed:
Straight out of your codex! Boyz in trukks, mechanized element + Stormboyz. Ponder this for a moment: 6 trukks full of boyz screened by a Mek with a KFF, in turn screening 3 units of Stormboyz who can move as fast as the trukks moving flat out...that's a lot of fast moving destruction.

Outflanking Goodness:
Kommandos as elites and Deffkoptas as fast attack, as many of each as you can fit in, often with Deffkoptas equipped differently for wound allocation spread outflanking (unless you get turn1 and put your deffkoptas out for a turn1 turbo-boost).


Rebel Grotz:
Instead of six units of boyz, you get.....gretchin! Bwah ha ha. Not particularly scary in themselves, but using covering units or terrain, able to go to ground for a 3+ cover save, making them incredibly difficult to remove from an objective, especially with other gretchin (inside killa-kans) are krumping around the battlefield.

Nob Bikers:
Two warbosses + 20 nobs = 2HQ + 2Troops. 22 models = 1750. Diversified wargear and weaponry let you spread wounds around instead of removing models, and the unit is incredibly tough, has the ability to get anywhere fast, and kill anything fast.

Super Units:
Similar to Nob bikers in having an army with a low model count: Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz; a couple units of Meganobs, or my personal preference, units of regular nobs with diversified wargear for wound allocation magic - in vehicles!


Orky Burnas:
Start with three units of burna boys. Put them in battlewagons if you like. Mek with a KFF to screen if you do, and you have an army of combination templates / power weapons. Alternatively, a warboss makes nobs a troops choice, and you can give them all kombi-skorchas for some real carnage.


Battlewagon Spam:
Did you know that you can field 8 Battlewagons in a single army list? That's right...eight battlewagons. Three Heavy Support, Three dedicated transports for elite unit nobs, and two warbosses making two units of nobs troop choices so that you can take two more battlewagons. I think any time you have vehicles, you should have a KFF floating around, so I wouldn't advocate going for 8....but you can do a lot of things with a list of Battlewagons.
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My favorite flavor of Orks are mechanized orks. Here's the 2k theme I've been running this whole year, and for the most part (see my signature) I've been incredibly successful with it.

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (In Battlewagon with Burnas)
HQ: Big Mek + KFF + Powerklaw + Grot Oiler (In Battlewagon with Nobs)

Troop1: 16 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw
Troop2: 12 Ork Boyz + Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole in Trukk with Boarding Plank / Reinforced Ram
Troop3: 10 Gretchin + Runtherder
Troop4: 7 Nobs with Cybork Bodies, equipped as below:
-Painboy/Ammo Runt
-Waaaugh! Banner/ Ammo Runt
-Bosspole / Kombi-Rokkit
-Powerklaw
-Powerklaw / Kombi-Rokkit
-Big Choppa
-Big Choppa / Kombi-Rokkit
-Dedicated Transport Battlewagon Identical to heavy supports

Elite 1: 15 Burnas
Elite 2: 5 Lootas
Elite 3: 5 Lootas

Fast 1: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 2: Deffkopta + Twin-linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast 3: 3 Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits

Heavy 1: Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota, Armor Plates
Heavy 2: Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, Boarding Planks, Grabbin' Klaw, Big Shoota, Armor Plates

If you like what you see and want to know how I use it, click my name, and go to "Threads started" and check out some of my battle reports.

Here's a few to get you started.

'Ard Boyz prelims: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295067.page
'Ard Boyz semi-finals: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/299935.page
Blood Bath: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/285191.page
Atlanta Circuit Opener: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284021.page
SVDM: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/281869.page
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For a change of pace, here's a 2,000 point Kan-wall that I just built for someone with some tactics appropriate for the situation they're in - although the army can do well enough in most situations.

HQ: Big Mek + KFF + 'Eavy Armor
HQ: Warboss + Powerklaw + 'Eavy Armor + Attack Squig

Troop1: 30 Shoota Boyz + Nob, Powerklaw, Bosspole
Troop2: 30 Shoota Boyz + Nob, Powerklaw, Bosspole
Troop3: 19 Gretchin + 1x Runtherder
Troop4: 19 Gretchin + 1x Runtherder

Elite1: 15 Lootas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 5x Kommandos, 2x Burnas + Snikrot

FA1: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
FA2: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
FA3: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw

Heavy1: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy2: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy3: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
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Deployment:

1. Both Lootas units deploy in cover in the center of the field if possible. Space them 2" apart if you can while maintaining cover and fields of fire. Buy a GF9 Tactical Template if you don't have one; its awesome for measurements, coherency, the works.

2. Both Gretchin squads deploy on your flanks: One left, one right. Spread them out with 2" coherency as well in a line going up the side of the table. As you move across the table, they're going to move up with you and keep the table edges blocked off.

3. Your nine Killa-kans go in the front; close enough that all benefit from the KFF's 4+ cover save.

4. Your 60 boyz go behind the Killa-kans.

5. Your Deffkoptas go left, right, and center on the edge of your deployment zone, unless you go second - then they're in reserve.

You should have a box on the table, comprised of a table edge back, gretchin sides, and kan-wall top. Everything in your army has a 4+ save at this point, with the possible exception of gretchin - you'll need to watch where they get placed.

Gametime!

-If you went first, your deffkoptas turbo across the table to do a turn1 assault; against vehicles if possible. If not, into something meatshielding a tank that you want Snikrot to assault.

-Your Lootas stay put, but everything else moves forward 6", and then probably runs D6. You're expanding your box. Chimeras can't outflank through your gretchin, protecting your boyz and Lootas (most importantly) meaning that they're going to have to come on right in front of your killa-kans with their STR10 DCCWs and their STR8 Rokkits. They can move 6" and fire, or move 12" and not fire - either you're going to hit on 4+ and do bad things, or he didn't shoot at you and...you're going to shoot at him with rokkits.

-Two units of Lootas with 15x Lootas apiece light up his basilisks and hellhounds, and chimeras when they come out.

-When Snikrot comes in, the Warboss breaks off and goes for the Leman Russ if possible, or another high profile target. If the lascannons are on foot in a heavy weapon squad, go tie them up. Snikrot and 5 Kommandos burn / assault; again - preferably into a vehicle, but into a unit if you have no choices - depends on what your deffkoptas are doing.

-All these are destructive forces, but are simply paving the way for the REAL threat - 60 boyz putting out 120 shots before assaults, the killa-kan assaults, and the whole thing being covered by a Loota firebase.

This same thing can work against most army lists out there.
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Alright, take your reading glasses back off.

If you made your way through all that, then you hopefully cued in on something that caught your fancy that you'd like to build towards. Let us know what, and we can help you start moving down the right path.

Wow, that's a lot of info. Well, thanks for the input, I looked into it and updated the list to be based around Kult of Speed.