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The Imperial Fists are my favorite founding chapters so it's awesome to have an actaul IF character.
But my main problem with him is his Bolter Drill ability.
Why in the freaking world would you give a SC who has no ranged weapon and is a close combat monster an ability like that?
I could see Pedro or Sicarius or even Telion with this ability but i don't see its uses for Lysander.

Drop in with sternguard, primarily. I honestly have forgone this tactic, prefering to run Lysander with Assault Terminators.

He's versitile in that respect as a result of having abilities, granted either through special rules OR through stats. Use him as you see fit.

run him with tac termies 4xstormbolters and 1xcyclone

Or as thunder stated, run him with assault termies

bolter drill is no big deal but lysander is still good because he's so strong in close combat.

Im beginning to wonder if anything related to Imperial fist is a troll. I mean... pedro kantor with +1A bubble, then Lysander having bolter drill..... I can imagine the guy who wrote this doing a troll face.

I don't think it is a troll, just shoring up what is vulnerable. Lysander has no shooting abilities? Take him with Tactical Terminators, who will demolish enemies with TL-Bolters prior to an assault. Pedro and Sternguard aren't quite awesome at close combat, but having 3 attacks a model goes a long way towards fixing that.

yeah. twin linked bolters pwn noobs. really you dont need any other gun....

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah. twin linked bolters pwn noobs. really you dont need any other gun....

I'd take twin linked bolters over sternguards with 3 base attacks anyday lol.

Bolter Drill is crap, especially since it doesn't work on the special part of Combiweapons. Lysander is decent enough in melée though not so much more than his points worth of Assault Terminators, to make up for loss of Combat Tactics (or one of the better Chapter Tactics...).

Lysander with 20 Sisters of Battle.

I haz done it. It iz lulz.

^ though that means you don't get to use Faith Points on that unit...
Lulz and sadness if you ask me.

I enjoy making the same joke over and over again, when it's no longer funny.

Like any other situational special rule, you have to build your army so that you maximize the force multiplier...

Lysander is good in a tactical terminator or sternguard squad. He is probably not a bad investment even if you don't use the rule, so really getting to use it is just gravy anyways.

I'm not really sure how you could say that twinlinking your weapons is "crap".

How does that kind of sarcasm help a discussion? Are you just trolling?

^Why is that even a question?


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AF hates bolters.
Lets just move on and enjoy their helpfulness when applied appropriately and with realistic expectations.

Dracos wrote:How does that kind of sarcasm help a discussion? Are you just trolling?

Best part is the moderators inabilty or unwanting to fix this issue from many users (including some moderators) which is the main reason people post on other, smaller forums.
It's pretty difficult to get a discussion going about anything with these jackasses.

Dracos wrote:How does that kind of sarcasm help a discussion? Are you just trolling?

dont be so serious.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:its not crap. its the complete and utter awesome sauce. how could anyone think that twin linking flamers and meltaguns and mastercrafting thunder hammers for a whole army is better than twin linking bolters for a single squad? It's just obviously not so. I dont even care about lysander's close combat ability, honestly. Just gimme that fethin bolter drill.

Comments like this really aren't of any use when people are trying to discuss something. If you don't have anything useful to add -- what a shcok that would be ! -- then please don't post.

If you really wanna use his bolter drill, then stick him with 10 Sternguard, or 10 Tactical Termies with 2x cyclones. 20 rerollable storm bolter shots + 4 cyclone missiles can take out a lot, but regular termies still tend to be underwhelming.

The best I could see would be with 10 Sternguard. 20 rerollable AP 3 shots (helps nullify gets hot too with rerolls), or 20 rerollable shots wounding on 2s is probably the best way to use this special ability.

He can be used in a pure assault unit (TH/SS terms in a land raider) and just ignore the bolter drill. His combat prowess alone is worth the points imo ( Terminator captain with TH/SS, and eternal warrior, 1+ wound, mastercrafted str 10 ap 1). 1 extra wound and Eternal warrior is huge!

The bolter drill is just an additive to Lysander, the best thing is his 2+/3++ and having Eternal Warrior.

He is an absolute house in close combat and deserves alot of respect there!!!

I would like to see him with tactical terminator squad and attach a libby with gate and get busy!

He has bolter drill because that's what he had when he was just a measely Tactical Sergeant upgrade character, and besides, extra rule is extra fun. Be happy that your tactinators might actually hit something with their storm bolters.

I was looking long and hard at why you'd take Lysander, and despite really wanting to do a fluffy IF army I couldn't see how he'd ever be worth the points. Given Vulkan is streets better and cheaper who wouldn't want to use him instead (or Kantor)?

In so many of the codices the named characters are all over the place - some are no-brainers whilst others require you to be lobotomised before they look good.

Needless to say I've switched to a fluffy Salamanders list instead.

LavuranGuard wrote:I was looking long and hard at why you'd take Lysander, and despite really wanting to do a fluffy IF army I couldn't see how he'd ever be worth the points. Given Vulkan is streets better and cheaper who wouldn't want to use him instead (or Kantor)?

In so many of the codices the named characters are all over the place - some are no-brainers whilst others require you to be lobotomised before they look good.

Needless to say I've switched to a fluffy Salamanders list instead.

Lysander is a character to be taken for his combat prowess alone. There are few enemies that can withstand his str 10 ap1 onslaught, and he is hard as nails. Lysander would bend he'stan over a barrel and make him scream. He also has the underatted bolster defenses rule (give your objective holders a 2+ save when going to ground). Bolter drill is just a throwback to his old sergeant upgrade character and should be ignored for the most part.

He'stan is a character to be taken for his twin linking goodness. This also pigeon holes you into making most of your army woefully short range, basicly making it an auto-loss against DE with nightshields and a hard time with long range IG and eldar flying circus. Make sure to take some long range support if you use him!

Now I haven't tried this (yet) but I'm thinking Lysander with a 10 Termie Unit w Cyclone and Assault Cannon + Shrike with a 6 man assault termie squad. Infiltrate and fleet makes for a nasty Alpha Strike suprise. The total runs about 1100 pts but it should be fun to watch peoples faces.

I can't think of ever leaving home without Lysander. I Usually drop him in with 10 Sternguard with a drop pod with locator beacon. That squad can deal with anything in one turn, nine times out of ten, and when the squad faces the inevitable revenge onslaught, Eternal warrior, as well as his awsome saves ensure he survives long enough for the 5 TH/SS terminators to arrive by deepstrike, close enough to help Lysander if he needs it. Combine that in your list with a tactical squad on a home objective, with the free missle launcher or multi melta and theres a very strong core of a force. Lysander is the whole reason i play Imperial Fists!

As noted, bolter drill is basically superfluous, as he's a beast in assault.

That said, the last time I faced him my opponent had him leading a unit of GK terminators. The whole thing was sick in HTH and was able to spray out a lot of accurate SB fire once I blew up their LR and didn't immediately give them great targets for assault.

sourclams wrote:Lysander with 20 Sisters of Battle.

I haz done it. It iz lulz.

I lulzed...

then I realized you ment in game.

Bolter drill pretty much means that he amplifies sternguard. If Lysander had a bolter the 23 point sternguard in his unit would outperform him because Lysander would not have special issue ammunition. He doesn't need a bolter because he's a CC combat monster not a sternguard.

Bolter drill is a minor perk of a CC monster that works well if he goes into a unit of sternguard. Sternguard in a drop pod are very vulnerable to being charged after they land, so the idea of throwing a CC monster into the sternguard has merit.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:yeah. twin linked bolters pwn noobs. really you dont need any other gun....

20 bolter shots is enough to put a damper on anything's day, aside from T6 stuff. Do not underestimate the basic guns.

Anyway, As stated before, Lysander is best used for his ability to flatten almost anything in CC. Running him with assault terminators only amplifies this ability.

I really disagree with this disregard for Bolter drill...
I use Lysander and I never attach him to Assault termies... they're good on their own.
Put him in a sternguard instead and you will get:
-rerollable AP 3 weapons, poisoned 2+ or ignore cover for petty guardsmen in cover...
- Stubborn at Ld 10 for 'em
- Incredible cover saves for your devs or your objective holders
- resistance to sternguards!!!! You can let em live longer against plasmas and similar stuff assigning wounds to lysander!! he has four and decent chance of saving from everything so.... maybe at the end of each shooting phase you have one more sternguard...
- A close combat monster: who said the better way to defeat sternies is to assault them... fear my 3 S 10 ap1 attacks!!!

... and it's.... 200 points... you have to choose an hq anyway... in SM dex the other options are the majestic vulkan (melta LS spam urrah!!!), pedro, maybe cassius for his ludicrous T6 ...
anyway you can't spend less than 150 for a decent hq... why not spending 200 for a LOT of advantages???
I never play lysander with termies and I think He's worth his points anyway....


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p.s. ... if you look at my signature You won't see lysander armies... I use his rules of course, to represent DA masters
Zeruel: Vulkan
Khydor: Lysander
Terubel: Lias Issodon (IA 9)
Ghouron: Kantor