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Welcome to part 36 of the Blood Conquers All series. To view other reports in this series, click here.

This game started with an invite from Dakkaite ArtfcllyFlvrd. The store at which he plays is up in Bloomington, which is a roughly 45 minute drive from where I live. With nothing better to do on a Friday night, I took a drive up through pouring rain to get a game in somewhere new.

The place was Gryfalia's:



Which had a nice little back room for 40k:



The game I played was against ArtfcllyFlvrd himself with his beautifully painted mech traitor guard army.

THE CHALLENGER: AV12 for the AV12 god!
1500 pts.

CCS, 4x plasma, plasma pistol
- chimera

Vets, 3xmelta
- chimera

PCS, 4x flamers (erroneously marked as VETS below)
- chimera
PIS, autocannon, flamer
- chimera
PIS, autocannon, flamer
- chimera
SWS, flamer, 2x melta
(riding in vendetta)
SWS, flamer, 2x melta
(riding in vendetta)

Vendetta
Vendetta

Medusa
Manticore
2x Hydras

THE DEFENDER: Boots for the Boot throne?
1500 pts.

CCS, MoO, lascannon

PIS, lascannon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun, commissar w/power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun
PIS, power weapon, meltagun, commissar w/power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun

PIS, lascannon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun, commissar w/power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun
PIS, power weapon, meltagun, commissar w/power weapon
PIS, power weapon, meltagun

LR Vanquisher, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters
LR Exterminator, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters
LR Exterminator, hull lascannon, sponson heavy bolters

For missions, we played one of the upcoming Adepticon sets. Deployment was pitched with three objectives. Whoever had the most of them won. The three objectives were "seize ground" with five objectives, kill points, and "whoever could have more units within 12" of the center".

I won the roll to go first and took it.

At deployment, the field looked like this:



Looking at the missions, I've got a pretty solid hold on KP, given that my opponent is offering like twice as many. This means I've got to win on either "more units in the center" or "more objectives held". Given that this board has less like 1/4 terrain and more like 1/8 terrain and that the middle is in the center of a big open space, I don't know how doable that one's going to be. As such, I'm instead going to focus on capturing objectives as my other main thrust.

The strategy for this one would be pretty straightforward. My opponent only brought three units that can seriously challenge my Leman Russes, and all of them are on AV12. With all the twin-linked autocannons and lascannons, I should be able to put a very serious dent in my opponent's anti-AV14, if not wipe it out entirely. Once that happens, my russes will be able to crack open his flimsy vehicles and the power blobs will horribly mob over anything that survives.

My opponent castles up and does his scout moves (already pictured), and attempts to seize the initiative, but fails.


TURN 1

Report concerning the action on: 15 Hydros
Daxos Line

My assault on Mt. Cos, and the recapture of the shrine of St. Eusebius had transpired most excellently, with the enemy's salient utterly removed. Flush with success, the chain of command saw it fit to rush my line into a hellish battle that had been taking place since long before I arrived planetside at a place called "The Aerie". Attack and counterattack over this broad valley had claimed millions of souls on both sides, with little territorial or strategic gain to be had.

Now it was my turn to set loose my crack troops against the grinding gears of the perpetual battle. Certainly, men of such altogether soldierly quality as my own would no doubt be the determining factor in this otherwise intractable situation. I gathered together the survivors of the battle for Mt. Cos, and saw them air-lifted to the battle. It was not long before my line was to be put into a massed charge of the enemy.

The morning of the 15th drew very hot and very dry, as is customary for this climate during this part of the year. Being a man of sufficient rank, I was able to acquire a sufficient quantity of bubbling mineral water to keep myself adequately refreshed before the battle. Shortly before noon, the general order was given to advance.



It was not long before we made contact with the enemy.

I begin the game with a general advance with the left acting as a hinge. There is more cover on the right, so it all feels somewhat less suicidal.

It's then pretty quickly off to shooting. Needless to say, I'm looking for a strong alpha strike so that I can get turn after turn of pounding on his chimeras later. Everything starts by opening up on his vendettas. I shoot a vanquisher cannon, a master of ordnance, the equivalent of 6 autocannon shots, and 5 lascannons (one of which was BS 4). The end result? I don't even scratch the paint...

The last remaining exterminator throws down on the manticore for 4 glances, 3 of which are stopped by cover. The result of the glance? An immobilized result... on a vehicle that was NEVER going to move.

The turn ends with my infantry running.

After this point, the field looked like this:



As far as I'm concerned, a 700 point Imperial Guard alpha strike just did literally nothing. I can only hope my opponent's 700 point alpha strike will do just as little.

Movement is decidedly limited.

He then starts shooting by opening up with his vendettas and manticore against my russes. The first vendetta throws down 3 hits for an astonishing 2 pens and a glance for a wrecked russ. The manticore shoots 2 shots, one of which hits the vanquisher for a pen for a second vehicle down. The third vendetta throws down 3 hits for a pair of glances thankfully just shaking the vehicle.

Then the rest of his army opens up. 18 multilaser shots put down approximately 16 hits for several dead guardsmen, including a PCS, and almost wiping out my CCS, which was forced to go to ground. Even his hydras did well, and the medusa hit dead on.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 2

Well, it looks like astonishingly bad luck on my first turn and astonishingly good luck on my opponent's first turn has seen my alpha strike do nearly as little as it is possible to do, and my opponent doing nearly as much as it is possible to do.

I'm still cool, though, because my army does not need to have a strong alpha strike to be able to win. After all, I've got melta power blobs with the 50% of my forces that WASN'T neutralized in a single round of shooting. The game may be 800 points vs 1500, but I've still got a backup plan.

After all, my troops have meltaguns, which means they have plenty of chimera-cracking power of their own, and my opponent still has worthless troops choices that I can easily wipe out with power weapons.

Turn 2 starts with my moving my forces up. All I've got to do is to get my men across the field in a timely fashion, and I'm still in this fight. I roll difficult terrain for all my infantry (except for the rightmost, which didn't have to). No squad manages to move forward more than 3"... Meanwhile, the surviving russ pops smoke.

So, things could have gone better, but I still get to run. I roll for running, and with the three difficult terrain squads don't manage higher than a 3 AGAIN. The blob one in from the right rolled snakeyes for his difficult terrain roll, and then rolled a 1 for a run giving him a whopping 2" movement this phase.

The only shooting is from my PCS on the right, which failed to hit.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Okay, so really bad luck killed my plan. MORE really bad luck killed my backup plan. Luckily, I have a BACKUP backup plan.

My troops don't need to get there fast, necessarily, because they're so durable. I've just got so many guys, that even if I show up more like eventually and less like on time, I'll STILL have meltaguns and power weapons in my opponent's face. All I need to do is have only reasonable casualties, which is practically ensured, given that everything was able to find cover.

My opponent starts his turn 2 with little movement.

Then my opponent starts his shooting. Average rolling on his part and cover should keep me relatively safe.

Shooting starts with his 2 hydras which hit with EVERY SHOT, and only failed to wound with one of them. The manticore throws down 2 shots and hits with the leading shot. The multilasers once again almost fail to roll a miss. Against this kind of rolling, cover can only do so much, and my forces are horribly racked over.

The battle had gotten quite hot almost as soon as it had begun. Machine guns, auto-lasers, and heavy weapons of all kind were fired with sniper-like proficiency. No more quickly had I taken to my command post than it had been caught in a great torrent of fire. I ducked down momentarily to let the horrendous malice pass. Seeing my troops confused and not moving forward to their utmost, I stood up to shout orders at them.

Just then, a round caught my refractor field causing it to short and explode, sending me to the ground most unconscious.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 3

So, I just had two turns of nearly the worst rolling possible, while my opponent just had two turns of nearly the best rolling possible. Luck has killed my plan of winning the alpha strike and collapsing his forces. Luck has killed my backup plan of getting in swiftly with my power blobs before they take too many casualties. Luck has killed my backup backup plan of outlasting my opponent.

But all is still not necessarily lost! I still have a backup backup backup plan. Even if my forces arrive late, against an uninjured opponent after taking undue casualties, I can still rely on the fact that my most precious weapons are hidden, and so long as those hidden weapons survive, my troops choices will still outclass my opponent's stuff.

Turn three begins with my troops advancing. Three turns of movement, no matter how poor, finally see my troops getting into 12" with their meltaguns.

Shooting starts with my now un-shaken exterminator shooting at the manticore. It's already too late to stop the end of the russes, while the manticore is still the greatest threat within LOS for the tank. The lascannon misses, and, even after rerolls, I only get 2 hits on the autocannon, neither of which even glance.

Meanwhile, my left-side blob shoots at the nearby chimera hitting with both meltaguns and surprisingly penning it twice. Of course, the damage rolls throw down a pair of 2's. On the right, my power blob gets 1 meltagun hit on the vendetta, which also pens, this time destroying the vehicle. The left-center blob also shot, but wasn't able to do anything while the right-center blob ran.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In response, my opponent holds fast in the face of my charging human wave:



The only movement is a couple chimeras wiggling to get some heavy flamer/12" lasgun fire off, and a slight correction by the vendetta.

Shooting starts with the right hydras and armored fist on the right. The equivalent of 12 autocannon and 12 heavy bolter shots slam into my guardsmen, who go to ground. 24 shots kill TWELVE guardsmen. I'll let you work out how many of those shots need to roll a hit in order for that to be possible.

Elsewhere, the shooting is no less ludicrous, seeing such atrocities as 9 plasma shots throwing down 8 hits (the other one wasn't a burn), and the manticore shooting 3 shots. Even the vendetta, managed to immobilize and stun the russ.

Just to frost the cake, a commissar had to shoot a sergeant to keep morale.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 4

Despite being on the receiving end of three as-if-weighted-dice rounds of shooting, I have no choice but to press on. The only damage I can do now is in close, which is where my troops move up to be.

Shooting on the left sees two meltaguns in melta range wreck a chimera, while the center-left blob achieves the same. The center-right blob wasn't quite in melta range, but still immobilized a third chimera.

After this point, the field looked like this:



Now that my forces have arrived late and seriously under-manned, my opponent makes a cautious advance against them.

Shooting FINALLY sees my opponent's dice cool from "disco inferno!" down to merely "good". While his CCS put down another 7 hits out of 9 shots with no overheats or 1's to wound, the rest of his shooting is actually merely average.

By now, he had some heavy flamers into my troops, which, as per my placement, only hit like 2 or 3 guys per blast, but because of his shooting the previous turns, those casualties became starkly unsustainable.

In the end, my left-center blob was down to just the commissar and a sergeant, while the right commissar was down to just Raust:



Who had managed to survive with a successful armor save.

After this point, the field looked like this:




TURN 5

It may have taken all the way until turn 5, but I've now finally got my opponent in my grasp.

I throw in the rest of what I have.

On the left, my blob moves in to charge his CCS, while the center-left blob charges in against the PIS that was dismounted. The center-right blob moves up and takes aim at the nearby chimera while Raust leads a 1-man charge into the SWS on the right.

In shooting, my center-right blob easily breaks open its chimera, while, miracle of miracles, my Lascannon PCS scores a hit that manages to penetrate AV12. The damage result is a shaken result...

Close combat sees me charging in with my left side blob and doing very lackluster damage. Very little damage is done in return, but my opponent passes morale. In the center left, despite hitting on 3's, my commissar only manages to put down 1 hit, which fails to wound. It's up to my sergeant, who also rolled poorly, to down a single guardsmen. In return, my opponent's PIS puts down a pair of wounds, seeing the commissar pass an armor save. On the far right, Raust charges the 4 survivors of the SWS and dispatches 2, who manage to put a wound down on Raust, who miraculously makes his second armor save in a row. The SWS, though, rolls very well for morale and sticks around.

After this point, the field looked like this:



In return, my opponent plays his late-game hand. The left side vendetta moves up to score with its SWS while the left-side chimeras roll towards the center of the board.

In shooting, most of the stuff he wants to target is in close combat with the rest in cover. With an average bout of rolling, I finally get the casualty levels I'd been expecting this whole time. Of course, by now they're utterly unsustainable, seeing the center right side blob brought down to just a guardsman, a sergeant, and the commissar

In close combat, the power blob on the left manages ONE kill with a power weapon for a drawn combat, while the commissar in the center left utterly fails, seeing him get drug down after having to make a surprising three armor saves. Meanwhile, the three SWSers fail to wound Raust, who gets three hits for zero wounds...

Unfortunately, I don't have a picture for after this phase.

We roll to continue, and we do.


TURN 6

And that's it, I'm utterly spent. While my meltaguns did some reasonable damage, my power weapons utterly failed me. Luck has seen my backup backup backup plan shot through. With fewer than a dozen infantry models on the field and a single partially disabled vehicle, my tattered army is very nearly wiped. There is no backup backup backup backup plan.

Shooting sees a rare ability for the exterminator to shoot, unloading autocannons on the center chimera. This time he only has to mess up AV10. 4 TLAC shots later, and the vehicle is still on the table... On the other hand, the PCSs lascannon finally did its job with a lascannon hit acing a chimera.

Close combat sees Raust unable to make 3 armor saves in a row, and unable to finish off the last of the SWS, leaving a lone survivor to consolidate back towards the objectives. On the left, once again a half dozen power weapons go down, once again for no damage. It's up to the bayonetts to do anything. In the center, my troops actually figure out what the "power" in power weapon is supposed to mean, with 6 attacks putting down 3 dead guardsmen for only two casualties in return. Finally, my opponent fails a leadership test, and my one, furious commissar angrily sweeps them down in a fit of rage.

All he has to do is to be able to consolidate out of flamer range, and he has a chance at surviving. I pick up the die and roll a 1.

After this point, the field looked like this:



The bottom of 6 sees my opponent consolidating on the objectives.

Shooting sees my last commissar from the center wiped out by a flamer and the PCS nearly cleared off.

Close combat sees me win again against his CCS, and after 4 rounds of losing combat without stubborn, the CCS finally breaks. The blob fails to catch, but the senior officer is finished off by a difficult terrain test.

After this point, the field looked like this:



I roll the die to continue, and we do not.


FINAL RESULTS

My opponent had more objectives than I had, and also more units in the center than I had, and beat me on kill points by 1, for a victory for my opponent.

- In case you missed it, luck was SERIOUSLY against me this game. Possibly more than in any other I've played. Due to little more than dice, all four of my plans were nearly fruitless. In the case of such wanton rolling, strategy is worthless.

- That said, despite the fact that I lost, and was nearly wiped, I'm really proud of how things went, especially with how well my list held up. They only had one turn of doing much of anything, but they did quite a bit with what little they were given.

In the end, the game boiled down to the effect of my opponent bringing twice as many points of guardsmen who were BS5 against my troops slowly trudging out in the open with malfunctioning weapons. Given that all of this was true, and I was still only two good vehicle damage results away from a draw, I take away great deal of pride and strong sense of competitiveness with regards to my list. I have high hopes for how this will behave over the next league. If only I could get a game in with my opponent's dice

- Maybe it was the particulars of this game, but it really felt like this time I wasn't playing against my opponent, I was playing against the dice. Perhaps it's simply a truism of 40k that with two good players with strong lists, 40k really isn't a strategy game, but really a complicated game of Yahtzee with pretty models. Assuming a basic level of competence with your particular list, I'm starting to feel more and more that there really isn't a strong tactical component to this game, as once I thought.

After a few moments, I found myself being taken away by a guardsmen back into the rear. Once he had brought me to a medicae staff, he turned and boldly returned to the line.

At the medicae, I was cleaned up, and found to be in more or less top shape. Unfortunately, the same could not be said for my refractor field, which must now be replaced at great personal cost. It shall be missed.

By evening, I was made aware of the fate of the rest of my line. The bloody charge had cost me nearly 95% casualties, of which most were soldiers killed, as medical attention was unable to be rushed forward until after the enemy had been beaten back, at which point it was too late for most of my men. The only soldiers who had fared reasonably well were those who were brought out of the combat earlier than later, and several of the more enterprising members of my commissariat.

Through sheer force of presence, I was able to have my doctor prescribe caviar and yeti pate for dinner. The meal went well with my complimentary cherry-flavored gelatin cup. The next day I was informed that my line was to be removed from the front, and that new soldiers from new regiments had already taken our place. Before we were moved back to a medicae far behind the lies, I heard news that our replacements had suffered similar casualties.

Certainly, such a noble cause is worth such noble sacrifice.

In grateful service,

Sir Daxos P. Clinton III - KAP, EKS, ICM - Foleran Armies in his Majesty's Royal Dictate.
Blood Conquers All

I always look forward to seeing your battle reports to see how you do since our list are generally alot alike.(Plus the reports are just well written)

After reading his list I thought..Prolly be a tough fight but hes got this...Then seeing that first turn of wiffs.. I knew it was down hill from there.

But even with all that you were a great sport about it and had the right attitude as well which is not seen nearly as much as it should when things like that happen.


Was a good fight to the last man.

It was a good game against a great opponent! When the dice fall so solidly in one guys favor there just isn't a lot to be done. But unfortunately for me it probably won't happen like that twice .

A friendly invite, if you are free on Saturday there is a fairly low key/friendly tournament going on at a store in Springfield. The terrain is all top notch (and there's plenty of it). We could always use more talent!

Maybe it was the particulars of this game, but it really felt like this time I wasn't playing against my opponent, I was playing against the dice. Perhaps it's simply a truism of 40k that with two good players with strong lists, 40k really isn't a strategy game, but really a complicated game of Yahtzee with pretty models. Assuming a basic level of competence with your particular list, I'm starting to feel more and more that there really isn't a strong tactical component to this game, as once I thought.


I left the game for a few years because of this very notion. I came back thinking that after a new set of rules that this game could possibly become strategic in nature as it would seem to be, given the sheer number of different profiles/weopons/vehicles etc that the game possess'...

All that being said, I too had a horrible game of "yatzee" this past weekend. Although your's was much worse in nature than my luck, I lost a 4-3 KP game for reasons that Mathhammer cannot explain. At one point near the end of the game, one guy pulled out a calculator and said, "omg, there was like...1/10,000+ chance in that happening." I'm still going to say that having a plan as well as a backup backup plan is essential to winning in 40k, there are endless ways to lose a game of 40k that are out of your control.

Love your reports btw. I like the feel of your army. It has a unique personality to it. I think people who appreciate warfare can relate to the build of your army as opposed to the fantasy'ish war gaming you normally get from 40k. Major props for the list and making it work out well for you.

Cool report man. Do you stand on a chair to get the full table shot? =P Just wondering the format is great and the armies look good!

I thought you just got new dice? Your luck is normally pretty subpar with trying to hit vehicles, but that made me cry a little. Nonetheless, you put up a good fight, and it made for another interesting read.

Thanks!

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:A friendly invite, if you are free on Saturday there is a fairly low key/friendly tournament going on at a store in Springfield. The terrain is all top notch (and there's plenty of it). We could always use more talent!

Well thanks!

I don't know if I can make it this Saturday, mostly because it would cost $20 in gas that I don't have at the moment. I drew much praise from all my scratchbuilding at gryfalia's, but a minority of the reason why I have all the scratch-built stuff I have is because I like the hobby. It's mostly because greenstuff and plasticard is WAY cheaper than buying more models.

Perhaps at some point in the future, though.

Painnen wrote:I'm still going to say that having a plan as well as a backup backup plan is essential to winning in 40k, there are endless ways to lose a game of 40k that are out of your control.

So, one of the determining factors I've found so far is a player's list. I mean in the last game I played, with average rolling, I nearly tabled my opponent. Yes, my opponent could have run more, but I scarcely think that he could have pulled a win out without some SERIOUS luck, mostly because he just didn't have the tools at his disposal for victory.

In this case, both of us had good lists, which, once you take that out, seems to make a majority of the determining result based off of luck. I mean, perhaps it has something to do with my opponent bringing an immobile list, but perhaps it is just a core thing to 40k. I've yet to really decide.

Painnen wrote:Love your reports btw. I like the feel of your army. It has a unique personality to it. I think people who appreciate warfare can relate to the build of your army as opposed to the fantasy'ish war gaming you normally get from 40k. Major props for the list and making it work out well for you.

Well, thanks, but the reason I run foot guard the way I do is because I'm currently under the impression that it's highly competitive, not just because it's thematic. That one can be fluffy and competitive is I think one of the real strengths of the current guard codex.

Drkmorals wrote:Do you stand on a chair to get the full table shot? =P Just wondering the format is great and the armies look good!

That's exactly how I get the shots. Usually I'm taking pictures in cramped spaces, so the shots come across as somewhat skewed, but some careful photo editing makes up for most of the shortfalls.

Of course, there is that "soft focus" picture up there, caused by something to do with the wetness and the rain. Needless to say, I can't correct EVERYTHING in The GIMP.

Blacksails wrote:I thought you just got new dice? Your luck is normally pretty subpar with trying to hit vehicles, but that made me cry a little.

Yeah, I did just get new dice. New PRECISION dice. I'm starting to get the impression that maybe I'm like Dash - I just have bad luck, regardless of the dice.

despite the luck, id have to say that this was one of my favorite games that you have reported. mainly because both armies look to be very well painted. it is also worth noting that the board which you played on looks great as well (especially for your army) although there is very little terrain on the board.

i also have to say that its great to see that you didnt just 'call it' and stop playing. i think more people should play like this and stop being 'fair weather' gamers.

good work dude.

i like how you've actually played on a table with terrain to match your models bases

This is actually slightly nudging me towards wanting to replace the black rings on my bases with bleached bone color (like I did with my ogryn and stormies). The only problem is that that would take SO long, and possibly wind up chipping over time...

TheMicah25 wrote:i also have to say that its great to see that you didnt just 'call it' and stop playing. i think more people should play like this and stop being 'fair weather' gamers.

NEVER! So long as I have models on the board, there are still things I can do. Blood conquers all!

Or, well, in this game, at least I can put a notch in my "my army wasn't wiped" belt.

Seriously - Ive never seen such horrible luck shooting by the same guy over and over again. Its to the point where I just expect terrible things to happen in your shooting phase. Hats off to keeping your cool and having back-up plans to your back-up plans.

Have you considered dropping all the armor for something like 4 to 6 HW teams and 2 Command squads? This would allow for re-rolls using BiD on 4 of them (preferrably the ones armed with lascannons).

Ailaros wrote:This is actually slightly nudging me towards wanting to replace the black rings on my bases with bleached bone color (like I did with my ogryn and stormies). The only problem is that that would take SO long, and possibly wind up chipping over time...

TheMicah25 wrote:i also have to say that its great to see that you didnt just 'call it' and stop playing. i think more people should play like this and stop being 'fair weather' gamers.

NEVER! So long as I have models on the board, there are still things I can do. Blood conquers all!

Or, well, in this game, at least I can put a notch in my "my army wasn't wiped" belt.

Heh. Had a game like that recently. Played an arm consisting of two Land Raiders, a Rhino, and a Vindicator at 1500. I had 2 Drop MM/HF Dreads, a Drop melta Sternguard squad, 2 Missile Speeders, and 2 Dakka Preds worth of shooting.

End of turn 3? 1 Glancing hit TOTAL inflicted upon the opponent. :/

But! Playing it out revealed some fun to be had even though I had no chance of winning. Sternguard popped open a Land Raider when they finally came down on Turn 3 with a Librarian in tow. They promptly all died (after killing the Land Raider) which was followed by the Librarian going on a murderous rampage with Avenger and his Force weapon and killing two FULL tactical squads and a rhino by himself by the time the game ended.

Yessir. Never surrender while you still have models on the table.

Ouch... dice fail on that one ailaros :(

Another very pretty report. Awesome to see two such well-painted forced clash.

The terrain was very pretty, but maybe a bit too sparce?

Perhaps it's simply a truism of 40k that with two good players with strong lists, 40k really isn't a strategy game, but really a complicated game of Yahtzee with pretty models. Assuming a basic level of competence with your particular list, I'm starting to feel more and more that there really isn't a strong tactical component to this game, as once I thought

Yeah, it is all about the luck, those regular "top-players" are all just very lucky.

Extreme luck can of course make or break any battleplan, but tactics+list building is much more important

Finally you got to play an army that looks as cool as yours and on an awesome board to suit, nice report. Really really bad luck with pretty much everything on your part though :(

kaiservonhugal wrote:Have you considered dropping all the armor for something like 4 to 6 HW teams and 2 Command squads? This would allow for re-rolls using BiD on 4 of them (preferrably the ones armed with lascannons).

*groan*

I just got off a 10-game streak of trying to use HWSs. A cursory reading of how they did will well justify my answer of "no".

Illumini wrote:Yeah, it is all about the luck, those regular "top-players" are all just very lucky.

Extreme luck can of course make or break any battleplan, but tactics+list building is much more important

Well, seriously, though. Obviously list building is important here, but where were the tactics?

In movement, my tactics were little more than "Charge! Get in melta range!", and my opponent's tactics were "don't move ever unless you absolutely have to". In target priority, I shot at the things that could threaten my chimera bashers, and my opponent shot my chimera bashers. All of this was no-brainer.

Once you have strong lists that more or less play themselves (or your command of the basics is strong enough that play is automatic), where actually are the tactics in 40k?

Ailaros wrote:

kaiservonhugal wrote:Have you considered dropping all the armor for something like 4 to 6 HW teams and 2 Command squads? This would allow for re-rolls using BiD on 4 of them (preferrably the ones armed with lascannons).

*groan*

I just got off a 10-game streak of trying to use HWSs. A cursory reading of how they did will well justify my answer of "no".

Hey Ailaros, have you tried out Hydras? Or HWS? Or Ogryns?
Heh, that's one of the great things about your BRs, there is a whole history of your experimental process to be seen.

Great report, as always. I thought you had this one, but those first few turns were just brutal.

I got a game in finally with the MoO and Lasc combo against Necrons. I loved it, but I was so paranoid about scatter that I kept dropping it on the Monolith (and of course, doing little). The funny part was that my max scatter was 4 inches (after BS) the whole six turn game.

Thanks for another great report. After your last one, I was considering buying some precision dice since I suffer from bad dice ("Chessex nonsense" I believe you called it) also. But after this bat rep I may save my money. I could definitely see me spending $100 on precision dice then having a battle exactly like this happen!

Ailaros the dice gods Hate you, i'm sorry. There is a positive however, at least you didn't decide on gambling for your hobby !

Wow, those rolls look like something I would do. The first few turns were just way too one sided due to horrible rolling on your part and awesome rolling on your opponent. Unfortunately even the best player can be laid low by horrible rolling.

Another Great batrep. A pleasant change of scenery as well. Shame about your luck though.

Ailaros wrote:Well, seriously, though. Obviously list building is important here, but where were the tactics?

In movement, my tactics were little more than "Charge! Get in melta range!", and my opponent's tactics were "don't move ever unless you absolutely have to". In target priority, I shot at the things that could threaten my chimera bashers, and my opponent shot my chimera bashers. All of this was no-brainer.

Once you have strong lists that more or less play themselves (or your command of the basics is strong enough that play is automatic), where actually are the tactics in 40k?

The more I play the more I realize that the table itself is extremly important to having a good game. This includes tactics. There was very little to no los blocking terrain on your table. This meant that both you and your opponent could shoot whatever you want. Your dice suck, so it didn't really matter for your opponent but the fact that you/he weren't able to "hide" anything important is a big concern. Look at the average table's worth of terrain, and look how prevalant mech/shooty spam armies are. If there was more blocking terrain at tournaments you will start to see those lsits start to fail the parking lot of vehicles will immobilize themselves on terrain, and nasty cc units will be able to find some cover to get to grips with their opponents.

After the table you have to look at the armies being played. Neither one of you is playing an army that has multiple deployment options. So neither of you had to worry about out flankers, deep strikers, infiltrators, etc. Now look at the fact that you are playing two armies with opposite "philosophies" for lack of a better term. His army was built to sit in one spot and shoot you to death. Your army was built to send a wave of bodies crashing into your opponent. Since neither is a more "balanced" list in terms of tactical skill then it creates imbalances on the table top. Basically you are overloading the 12" range/movement phase and he is overloading the >12" range/shooting phase. If your opponent had included things like rough riders, ogryn, blobs, etc. And you had more long range shooting the game would have more tactical variability. I'm not saying that lists with the above would be considered "good" or "tournament" worthy. I'm talking about enjoying a tactical fun game (hrm am I allowed to put those two words together).

Do I think 40k is the most tactical game in the world no, but there is still a lot to look at in a game. Now this isn't to say you don't just have those games where the dice are absolute crap and your opponent rolls great, it happens, it's dice. And honestly without the random factor I think the games would be much less fun, even when you end up with the short end of the stick.

Yeah, if I stepped up to that table, I would probably ask either the other player (if friendly) or TO (if tourney) to adjust the terrain, as it was out of balance.

I think one or two more pieces like that hill his manticore was behind might bring it closer to 25% coverage.

pretre wrote:Yeah, if I stepped up to that table, I would probably ask either the other player (if friendly) or TO (if tourney) to adjust the terrain, as it was out of balance.

I think one or two more pieces like that hill his manticore was behind might bring it closer to 25% coverage.

I'll admit the terrain was light, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it was out of balance. All the foam hills were deamed area terrain, and they are thick enough to block LOS. The forests and building were area. The giant sphynx were impassible and they block LOS. Not to mention the three very large hills that are built into the game board which vary the elevation and block LOS from either side of them. All game I only shot twice where his units weren't in cover. It just happened that the armies we played and the way we played them didn't really take advantage of the terrain. The dice influenced the game FAR more than the terrain did, with the exception of some bad DT rolls, which I guess is a hybrid of the two.

Oh I agree that the dice were a biggest influence but, the game not withstanding, the terrain is still light on the table.

When a Realm of Battle is setup to make the valley in the middle, you need more terrain to compensate, since it provides no LOS blocks that way and actually makes LOS blocking harder. (Although in this battle, that was to A's advantage, since he was on the 'high' ground'.)

Looking at the first picture with army setup, there's a Sphinx, three medium hills, a ruin and two pieces of area terrain. I just don't think it covers 25% of the board. I don't think it would have mattered too much, but I was giving my terrain philosophy mainly.

Still at the start of the fourth turn I hoped that you'd win (and also feared that if you won, how the heck would you have pulled it off).

Bad luck is with us everyone to varying degrees, thankfully with me it is mostly limited to random game length and dangerous terrain tests on tanks. I am, however, happy that you got to play against a good player with an excellent army list that really tested your skills. Think about it, it still took like 5 turns to destroy a blob squad completely!

pretre wrote:I got a game in finally with the MoO and Lasc combo against Necrons. I loved it, but I was so paranoid about scatter that I kept dropping it on the Monolith (and of course, doing little). The funny part was that my max scatter was 4 inches (after BS) the whole six turn game.

Yeah, I'm still liking my MoO+lascannon CCS, although I've been having a hard time getting much use of him as of recently given how high of a priority my CCS has been (I still don't see why, though). My MoO is about due for another good game again... I hope.

NWansbutter wrote: After your last one, I was considering buying some precision dice since I suffer from bad dice ("Chessex nonsense" I believe you called it) also. But after this bat rep I may save my money. I could definitely see me spending $100 on precision dice then having a battle exactly like this happen!

To be fair, I only had three bad turns of rolling in this game, and it wasn't consistent across the board. Really, it was WHEN I had bad luck that was critical this game. Also, much more of this had to do with my opponent scarcely rolling lower than a 4 the entirety of this game, than my dice particularly failing.

Even precision dice can still have a game with bad luck. I think it's too soon for me to judge them a failure.

Warmaster wrote: Basically you are overloading the 12" range/movement phase and he is overloading the >12" range/shooting phase. If your opponent had included things like rough riders, ogryn, blobs, etc. And you had more long range shooting the game would have more tactical variability.

Also, to be fair, I spent 800 points on close combat, and 700 points on long range shooting. To say that my army only relies on close-in damage isn't, strictly speaking, accurate.

It just so happened that in this game, I lost 650 of my 700 points of long-range shooting turn 1, which is why it only looked like my army was purely about assault

Warmaster wrote:The more I play the more I realize that the table itself is extremly important to having a good game.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:All game I only shot twice where his units weren't in cover. It just happened that the armies we played and the way we played them didn't really take advantage of the terrain. The dice influenced the game FAR more than the terrain did, with the exception of some bad DT rolls, which I guess is a hybrid of the two.

So, about terrain.

Firstly, if you put the pieces of terrain all in a cluster, they wouldn't have even filled a single 1/6 board pannel. That there was hills in the corner that let you shoot over said terrain meant that there really was less than appeared. I was actually pretty shocked to see the OTHER game table (see the second picture in the report), that had ONE piece of LOS blocking terrain. I should also note that making the hills area terrain was my idea. Usually, the hills in this FLGS aren't played as such.

Secondly, Yeah, I was able to get a lot of cover, but it was no short of tricky. More importantly, once I started taking casualties at the end, I had to choose between leaving guys in cover to take cover saves, or leaving my guys with weapons at the front of the squad alive. With proper terrain, that usually shouldn't happen.

More importantly, it required me to ALWAYS keep units in backfield terrain in order to have any chance of cover saves which means I ALWAYS needed to take difficult terrain tests every turn. If there was more cover, I would have been able to just move up 6" and I'd still have it.

I'm under the impression that being seriously under-terrained is actually a common feature at most large tournaments, which makes sense to practice as such, but still, it's sort of difficult to make the case that a board with half the recommended amount of terrain with a big open space in the middle of the board isn't helpful for sit-and-shoot armies. Yes, terrain wasn't the deciding factor this game. Still...

Perhaps it was just the immobility of one of the players and the lack of terrain that made this game more Yahtzee, but I'm starting to get the suspicion that there's more to it than that.

I smile whenever I see a new Batrep of yours, I think yours are the best. The fluff is solid, the write-up at the end summarizing how things went, the pictures (very clear) and most importantly how you test out different units and give them enough games to really get a feel for their effectiveness.

All adds up to an enjoyable part of the hobby.

I mention the HW teams (I know your experience with them) because I think you need more of them (lascannons specifically). 3 HW teams is ok but try 4 to 6 of them. This would require 2 Command squads though as you'd want to use BiD on as many as you can, 6 would be the max if you added Creed.

Out of the three main variants (2 PLTs with 4 squads each, 4 Commissars minimum supported by Ogryns or HW teams or armored platforms) I think the HW teams show the most promise for a IG Blob.

Keep posting - l enjoy your work.

Looking at the other two tables, they each seem to be pretty sparse. In the second picture at the top, (left) you have 3 column ruin pieces which are almost LOS blocking and two hills. That's crazy. Right table looks about the same.

To defend tournaments, most tournaments have more terrain that that and most of the ones I've been to strive for at least 25%, or at least putting the RoB hill in the middle.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:I'll admit the terrain was light, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it was out of balance.

That said, you didn't appear to have to move to be able shoot at his army. I don't think that any sci-fi based game should have such open firing channels in the centre of the table.

You sat in place, shot the hell out of him, with admittedly good dice, and then charged from your positions once he was wiped out.

You opponent's comments re: tactics are pretty valid in this game. You didn't appear to need to do anything and he had littlemoptions available to him.

I think the terrain really had a negative impact on the game.


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Ailaros wrote:Perhaps it was just the immobility of one of the players and the lack of terrain that made this game more Yahtzee, but I'm starting to get the suspicion that there's more to it than that.

I'd try a game with more terrain and some reason for your opponent to move before you come to any conclusions.

I can't think of a single game with long weapon ranges that would not have had a similar result with such large open firelanes. AT-43, Infinity and almost every other modern game I have played would have been one-side like this.