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This sounds like a ridiculous question to ask but in 20 years or so of playing 40k I don't think I've ever really fielded a devastator squad.

So for fun... and because I finally managed to collect 4 of the original plastic beakie ML guys, I put together a little dev squad for my Badab era army. My question is... what do I do with it?

Do I run a skeleton crew of 4 devs and the srg?
Do I max & split the squad and put half in a rhino or razorback while the heavies blast away separately? (not in the vehicle obviously)
Do I max & split the squad and split the MLs so I can fire at two different targets? (I'm thinking they might last longer this way as they'd be as 2 MLs would be a lower priority target than 4)

What are good value targets for massed missile fire?


I can come up with ideas for all of these of course and I know a lot depends on the rest of my army, my opponent's army, the mission, etc. I was hoping however, for some insight from someone who regularly runs devs and has had success with them. Just a bit of friendly advice on how they seem to work well for you & why.

Thanks for your consideration and thoughtful responses,
Gits

I asked a similar question not that long ago Gits, and I gleaned that people recommended to me that I either make it a ten man squad and hunker down and let the marines take the hits so the ml's can keep firing, or make a ten man squad and split it like you thought so i've got two small dev squads to run around and blow things up!

hope that helps! :-)

I can do both of those. I like the idea of splitting the launchers... more targets are reduced target priority for your opponent are both good things.

Do you think giving the squad sergeant some kind of increased capacity (combi-weapon or power sword) serves any purpose... or do they usually get shot to pieces long before such things would come into play?

Thanks nerdfest!

I would say giveing the sarg any special cc weapons would be a waste, I normally keep my devs in the back so they can fire the whole game so if your devs are getting assaulted you've proably already lost them since the rest of them won't hold up very long against many outflanking units or any dedicated cc units.

I normally take my sarge out as the first shooting casultiy because he has no heavy weapons so the combi weapon probaly wouldn't get to much use.

I have ran the min squad and the full squad. I love running a full man squad. It gives you the option of doing both. Combat squading two heavy weapons in a squad to give a chance at multiple targets or leaving them all together to give you some wound soaks. One of my favorite "tactics" is to put the sarge and the four heavies up on a hill and hide the rest so you can get a cover save.

You could use a full 10 man squad. Then combat squad them into 4 missiles and a random guy and 4 guys + sarge-w- combi flamer and pfist in a razorback. This would let the other half of the squad act like "normal" tac marines and help take objectives and otherwise cause havoc around the battlefield while you rain missile death on your enemy.

Devestators are best in 10 man squads because that way you have meat shields for the heavy weapons and you can split to gain better fire concentration.


the only problem with this is that Devestators pay an insane amount of points for their heavy weapons.

if you are running a 10 man squad with 4 missile launchers, you are better getting the same points value of Land Speeder Typhoons. you also gain more firepower(a free heavy bolter) on a faster platform.

Warboss Niblet wrote:You could use a full 10 man squad. Then combat squad them into 4 missiles and a random guy and 4 guys + sarge-w- combi flamer and pfist in a razorback. This would let the other half of the squad act like "normal" tac marines and help take objectives and otherwise cause havoc around the battlefield while you rain missile death on your enemy.

Do not do this. Space Wolves can get away with it because they get their weapons at a discount. You want a meat-shield per gun. You should also take advantage of the Signum by taking a Lascannon or Plasmacannon.

10 man 3 rockit 1 las combat squad them keep sgt with las so it hits on 2s

One thing you can always do is take the 10 man unit, then split the unit into combat squads - 1 squad with the Sarge and heavy weapons, and another with the 5 bolters.

The 5 bolters deploy in front of the Heavy weapons and act as a screening unit.

infinite_array wrote:One thing you can always do is take the 10 man unit, then split the unit into combat squads - 1 squad with the Sarge and heavy weapons, and another with the 5 bolters.

The 5 bolters deploy in front of the Heavy weapons and act as a screening unit.

Why wouldn't you be deploying them in cover in the first place? I guess you could use that against outflankers but that sounds more like a free killpoint or just a situational kind of a thing.

I've found that splitting the squads into two 2ML squads is always the best, although I personally like to avoid the overpriced unit altogether.

I normally take my sarge out as the first shooting casultiy because he has no heavy weapons so the combi weapon probaly wouldn't get to much use.

Also this has to be one of the craziest ideas I've ever heard. Don't forget the Sergeant has both a Signum and Leadership 9! My day has been ruined more than once because of wound allocation killing the Sarge and then them running.

Keep in mind please that the purpose of the OP was to get hints on how to use this particular squad (4 MLs) as it is fluffy for my army... not to replace the MLs with other weapons or take another unit all-together.

That being said I am enjoying and appreciate the discussion. There's a lot to think about here.

Gitsplitta wrote:Keep in mind please that the purpose of the OP was to get hints on how to use this particular squad (4 MLs) as it is fluffy for my army... not to replace the MLs with other weapons or take another unit all-together.

That being said I am enjoying and appreciate the discussion. There's a lot to think about here.

I know, I was just saying that's really the only way I've found to effectively use them.

Anything more than missile launchers afterall and you're just about paying for a Death Star unit

I'll say it again though, always split the squads into 2ML's a piece. Lets you spread them out giving more fire lanes and less template trouble and lets you target more units.

If you've got the points for a Devastator squad it can be assumed that you have points to spare considering how the majority of Vanilla SM players view them. In that case always, always, always max them out. You're paying 15 points for every ML. That is a single point less than the marine himself! So max out the squad for as many wound soak-ups as you can before you have to bench a heavy-weapon-toting marine.

As for the Sargent, just leave him kitted with a bolter, and remove him as the last meatshield (this should take a while, because your dev's should be parked in good cover and you have 5 bolter-boys to bench before him. If you lose 6 marines in a single turn in a devastator squad chances are you did something wrong).

Concerning splitting them though, I find it to be a game-by-game choice. If I know my opponent is going to be hitting them hard quickly, or if I think the game is going to be decided by a kill point or two, I'll go ahead and leave them as a single unit. Yes, I am then only able to shoot at one target, but at least I am almost assured that it will have an effect. However, if I think I can get away with splitting them then I do it by splitting them into two units with 2 MLs apiece. I then generally put one on each flank in the back that way I've got at least two MLs covering each bit of the board.

(As a side-note: In a perfect world I would have enough points, and the 'get away with it' feeling to split them and put them in rhinos. Park a rhino covering a choke-point and use the 2 fire-points to shoot the MLs. I would imagine that it could be pretty devastating., but I've never tried it or seen it. Ahhh pipe-dreams...)

Agree... whatever you do don't combat squad them with 4 missile launchers together. You want to last as long as possible before you start losing missiles and by combat squading in this way you just risk missiles earlier. And... the other half isn't going to do much anyway.

I was going to echo the two squads in rhino option...You can take a small squad of 3 guys with 2 missiles... it's only 120 points (155 points with a rhino) has 3 ablative wounds, and can unlock a rhino or razorback. If you do take rhinos, this squad could sit in the rhino bunker and fire both missiles...if you have the force org slots open. The rhino really helps with dawn of war deployment, and if you went with razorbacks this option unlucks another one.

I've also seen the 135 point version do ok, with 5 guys and 3 missiles. It is a little more aggressive, but still has a couple meat shields and can put out good firepower for the price.

If you are taking the full 10-man squad with 4 missiles, the best you are going to do is split them with 2 missiles each. Rhino or Razorback optional... both are good (one for a bunker, one for providing cover and some extra shooty).

-Myst

O.K., so given all of this discussion... I sat down last night and made a completely crazy list. I KNOW it has horrible flaws... but it would also be kinda glorious.

Here we go:

HQ: Libby - jump pack, force dome, null zone
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback

with 30 points to spare to hand out a couple of power swords or something (for 1850)

For those of you keeping score, that would be:
15 ML shots and 9 LC shots per turn at 15 different targets... with 8 sniper shots thrown in for good measure.

Immobile... no assault... but my God the fire power! I figure the LCs work on the hard targets first, followed by the MLs on softer targets until there's none left, the rest of the MLs and the snipers clean up any exposed infantry. Other advantage is that you have no super-priority units... all you fire power is scattered evenly across 9 different units. I'd probably deploy the scouts near the razorbacks so that later in the game they could crawl in and make a run at objectives or something.

Keep in mind this is presented with humor... but I think it would be fun to build and play. I'm sure people's first reaction would be "Aack!"... which could be fun.

Gitsplitta wrote:O.K., so given all of this discussion... I sat down last night and made a completely crazy list. I KNOW it has horrible flaws... but it would also be kinda glorious.

Here we go:

HQ: Libby - jump pack, force dome, null zone
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Elite: 5x Sternguard - 2 LC
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Troop: 5x scouts - ML, sniper rifles
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback
Hvy: 10x devs, combat squaded, MLs 2x2, TL las or las/plas on razorback

with 30 points to spare to hand out a couple of power swords or something (for 1850)

For those of you keeping score, that would be:
15 ML shots and 9 LC shots per turn at 15 different targets... with 8 sniper shots thrown in for good measure.

Immobile... no assault... but my God the fire power! I figure the LCs work on the hard targets first, followed by the MLs on softer targets until there's none left, the rest of the MLs and the snipers clean up any exposed infantry. Other advantage is that you have no super-priority units... all you fire power is scattered evenly across 9 different units. I'd probably deploy the scouts near the razorbacks so that later in the game they could crawl in and make a run at objectives or something.

Keep in mind this is presented with humor... but I think it would be fun to build and play. I'm sure people's first reaction would be "Aack!"... which could be fun.

That seems like a tremedous amount of fire power, just be careful in cc, but It could be hoped that you would kill most things before they get to you.

The only issue I see is that there might be a cover shortage since you're going to have a lot of units sitting in the back you could use come cover.

Other wise this list seems pretty fun, I might try it out myself, without the libby jetpack.

whats with the libbies Jpack?

I added the libby with the jump pack in order to give a tiny bit of assaulty mobility... figured he might be able to stall a unit that was closing for a turn if necessary. (depending on the unit of course) Force dome for cover of course & null zone for demons and termies... also to try and prevent casual psychic games from my opponent.

What HQ would you suggest instead of the Librarian? For the points they're kind of hard to beat.


Interesting sig GT... why so small?

I must be in the minority. I use my devs as 150 pt cheap firepower units. They support the rest of the list, so I don't really care that they don't have useless wound soaks. I have more units elsewhere, which also follow this idea, to maximize firepower while reducing the number of useless bolter guys. 135 pts sternguard ML squads (or 160 pt lascannon squads), 150 pt ML dev squads, they all add up to be a huge amount of fire power, certainly better use than 90 pts of wound markers per unit.

Careful using the Libbie to chump block. If they wipe him out, the unit will get additional movement to get into better position. I like having a bolter marine for every heavy weapon. In 5th ed, I think 6 devestators with 2 ml's and a lc, or 3 ml's riding in a razor or lazorback. This way, in missions where they start off table, when they come in, they are at least moving to a good position and/or shooting one heavy weapon from their ride. The unit also maintains 4 HW's this way and the ability to Target 2 different units.

I've been running a 5 man dev squad... I'm not sure how much value for money it is to be honest. 150 points for 4 missile dudes and a sgt... that said It might be an idea to pop in one lascannon to hit on a 2+ from the sgt..

However when I look at BA devs.. I can't help but feel vinilla marines got the shaft

I don't understand putting heavy weapons in razorback though. A razorback has zero fire-points. It would be useful once the razorback took the Devastators to their cover, but during the ride you can't use the MLs.

Am I missing something?

you don't ride in it, you hide behind it for cover.

Using a transport as mobile cover as opposed to actually transporting models? BRILLIANT!

-Cypher- wrote:I don't understand putting heavy weapons in razorback though. A razorback has zero fire-points. It would be useful once the razorback took the Devastators to their cover, but during the ride you can't use the MLs.

Am I missing something?

In addition to the cover idea I also use it to give an extra heavy weapon shot each turn, plus it acts as a magnet for a lot of long range heavy firepower for a little while.

I don't understand the lure of missile launchers, perhaps someone could explain. Doesn't each of them have a 2/3 chance of scattering? Or is it assumed they are always using krak? Now krak I can see the benefit of, no To-Wound roll for T4 and no armour save for PA....but frag?

if you use Frag blast,

you have a 1/3 chance of a direct hit,

then 2/3 chance of scatter.


but the average scatter is only 3" with a good possability of less.

50% of that 2/3rds of the time will still result in a direct hit or not enough scatter to matter.

I personally really never had MLs work out too well for me, just not ending up doing that much, though that may just be me. May involve me forgetting about subtracting BS occasionally, but still not very good odds for me. How this means taking plasma instead to be a good idea I would not know, but that's my thing

Well, the choice of these specific MLs has to do with my personal history in 40k... not really related to their value in combat. I'm just hoping to get some ideas (which I have), on how best to use them.