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I'm not really into vehicles but I'm thinking about maybe adding a tank to my 1500 point CSM army. Right now, I only have a Rhino and a Dreadnought. So, which tank do you like at 1500 points if you were only going to get one, and what loadout do you prefer on it (and why)?

I would suggest getting a predator, then magnetizing it so you can use it with all options available. Defiler would be a close second.

The Defiler's good as long as you:
A) Field them in pairs
B) Keep it in cover
It's best if you do both, but really as long as you keep it hidden in cover while you advance it up the flank or take potshots at clusters of infantry with the Battle Cannon then you can make do with only one.

Never EVER put it out in the open. In my last game there was no cover whatsoever, I was using two Defilers. One was immobilised in the first round of shooting, it was able to cause a fair bit of damage before it was ultimately destroyed. The other was thankfully ignored for the rest of the game, but couldnt do a lot as the only mob of infantry on the board was caught up in melee with my Berzerkers for the rest of the game.
The armour on the Defiler is too weak to let out in the open and expect it to survive. The Predator is more heavily armoured, and I can see it's uses, but I have a bad history with Predators and cool as they are I don't field them.

Seeing as you only want one, the Predator is probably your best bet, as it can operate nicely on it's own. It may be worth magnetising it as has been mentioned, as this gives you the ability to quickly alter it based on who you're going to be fighting, but in a take all comers list I'd suggest the standard Autocannon + Heavy Bolter version. It's simply more killy. The lascannons aren't reliable enough as anti-tank for my taste.

Another rhino sounds like what you need

I was kind-of considering another rhino. I run the one, but I have only played one game (my most recent) where I actually put guys in it. Otherwise it runs around with extra armor and a havoc launcher while empty. This most recent game I put a unit of Berserkers in it, but my Tau opponent seized the initiative and immobilized it on turn 1.

Tangent wrote:I was kind-of considering another rhino. I run the one, but I have only played one game (my most recent) where I actually put guys in it. Otherwise it runs around with extra armor and a havoc launcher while empty. This most recent game I put a unit of Berserkers in it, but my Tau opponent seized the initiative and immobilized it on turn 1.

if your running it around empty then you really aren't using it effectively. However once you unload your units to their destination, then they can cause a lot of havoc. ( no pun intended) I would suggest dropping the EA in place of Daemonic possession, it makes a big difference especially with havoc spamming.

Brosky, I don't mean to sound mean, but you're doing it all wrong. Extra Armor is virtually always a bad investment, and it is worthless on a gunboat. A single Rhino at 1500 points is just not enough for an army that wants to get into CC. Post your whole list and we'll have a better idea of what you need.

DarkHound wrote:Brosky, I don't mean to sound mean, but you're doing it all wrong. Extra Armor is virtually always a bad investment, and it is worthless on a gunboat. A single Rhino at 1500 points is just not enough for an army that wants to get into CC. Post your whole list and we'll have a better idea of what you need.

Ha! No problem. I'm running:

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings and Bolt of Change
Sorcerer in Terminator Armor with Bolt of Change

10 Regular Marines with Icon of Nurgle, Combi-meltagun, and 2 flamers, and Meltabombs
8 Thousand Suns with 1 Aspiring Sorcerer with Doombolt and Meltabombs
8 Khorne Berserkers (with one as the champion) with Meltabombs

1 Dreadnought with DCCW/TL-bolter plus another TL-Heavy Bolter

5 Havocs with Missile Launchers and Icon of Nurgle

2 Chaos Spawn because they're awesome

1 Rhino with TL-Bolter and Pintle-mounted Havoc Launcher and Extra Armor

I usually deepstrike the DP and Sorc, the rhino is empty and shoots the havoc launcher every turn, while the other guys footslog. I normally destroy my buddy's IG (as he doesn't have enough stuff that can penetrate my armor) but have recently started having trouble with my new friend's Tau. He has crysis suits and BOATLOADS of dice in the shooting phase... in addition, he has a lot more experience than me and I think his army list is designed with being more competitive in mind than mine is.

Tangent wrote:I think his army list is designed with being more competitive in mind than mine is.

Ehhh, frankly that's not hard. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I'm going to steal something from Dash of Pepper: I'm going to assume playing Warhammer 40k is fun for you. I'm going to assume winning is more fun, and losing is less fun. Therefore it is in your interest to get better, and part of getting better is learning to build a better list. A list is best when there is nothing more you could take away from it.

Your HQs are inefficient even before you said you were Deepstriking them. You want to use everything you pay for. Deepstriking the Prince basically wastes the 12" movement of his Wings, since 2 to 3 turns are spent not using it. Mark of Tzeentch costs a lot because it lets you take and cast two spells, but you're only using one. Terminator Armor gives you a Power Weapon, Relentless, and a TL-Bolter, but you aren't using those. Bolt of Change also doesn't do enough damage to overcome its own price, let alone all the baggage of 2 more wounds and close combat stats.

A lone Terminator HQ can't quite be salvaged, so you'll have to drop him from the list. I know that's hard, my first HQ was a Terminator Sorcerer. A Tzeentchian Daemon Prince isn't the best option, but he can be made useful: Warptime and Doombolt or Breath of Chaos can be cast together, or Gift of Chaos because you can cast it twice.

Icon of Nurgle is awful. For 3 more points per model, you could have Fearless, Blight Grenades, and Feel no Pain. Call them Plague Marines. A single Combi-Melta does nothing but waste the rest of the squad's shooting; drop the Champion all-together. Frankly, the squad doesn't need to be very big, merely 7 or 8 members and keep the icon in the squad for cosmetic reasons. Read my advice on Thousand Sons then take Gift of Chaos and put them in a Rhino. Your Berserkers also need a Rhino, and consider seriously consider taking a Champion with a Powerfist. In fact, just do it. And don't take Extra Armor on either Rhino, and if you have to keep the Havoc Launcher, put it on the Thousand Sons' Rhino.

The TL-Heavy Bolter is the worst option for a Dreadnought. Take a gun that hurts vehicles (MM, ML, AC, LC, PC) and use your CC to hurt infantry. And vehicles. Just hurt everything with your Dreadnought's CC.

As mentioned before, Icon of Nurgle is bad, and it is vastly, frighteningly worse on smaller squads. Those 3 guys you shaved off the CSM? Add them to the Havocs so you can kill them instead of Missile Launchers when the squad comes under fire. Then use the icon as an Icon of Chaos Glory.

GET RID OF THE SPAWN. Use them for Gift of Chaos if you have to.

Prince, Wings, MoT, Warptime, Winds, 205
Dreadnought, PC, 105
7 Plague Marines, 2 Flamers, 171
9 Thousand Sons, Gift, Rhino w/ Havoc, 324
8 Khorne Berserkers, Champion w/ PF, Rhino, 243
8 Havocs, 4 MLs, IoCG, 210
1258 or drop a Havoc for a 1250 list.

For now get another Rhino. Then get more stuff that slags tanks.

Man, your posts are great and hilarious. So, some questions:

Or, first, I'd like to list some changes that I've had in mind for my list for awhile, and see what you think of them.

1) Swap out the Terminator Sorcerer for Fabius Bile. Run Fabius Bile in the unit of 10 normal space marines, and use his special ability on them to make them fearless every game.

2) Swap out the 5 Havocs for a 3-man squad of Obliterators.

3) Use the 5 models that were previously being used as Havocs as Chosen instead. Give them cool guns and get another Rhino for them to infiltrate in.

4) Add a Greater Daemon (somehow). Maybe have him take over the body of the champion with the Chosen when he comes into play.

5) Drop the Berserkers entirely to help pay the point cost of all this other stuff. I never wanted to use them but my only other option currently is to run a unit of Possessed, and that sucks.

Now, I suppose for my questions...

I always deep strike my DP so he can't get shot to death so early. Not likely?

I always thought Bolt of Change was too pricey, but Doombolt can't hurt vehicles and otherwise I only have CC for that (with meltabombs or whatever).

Why no extra armor? And to Sunnocard, I always thought the BS drop was too high a price for Daemonic Possession.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question: I can't find anything in either the BRB or CSM codex that says that Thousand Suns always strike at Initiative 1 because of S&P. Direct me!

Tangent wrote:1) Swap out the Terminator Sorcerer for Fabius Bile. Run Fabius Bile in the unit of 10 normal space marines, and use his special ability on them to make them fearless every game.

You're throwing more points at it when the problem is that it's already too expensive. Fabius Bile is cool, and indeed he can build some nasty lists, but only at very high points levels and only with exclusively CSM armies. Bile improved CSM are slightly cheaper than Cult Marines, but that only matters at 2000+ levels when the points you save affords entire new squads. Your CSM aren't bad, and I can see you're trying to have an anti-horde unit. Plague Marines are better for it, but if you want to keep them as CSM, just bump to IoN to an IoCG without even changing the model. The Combi-Melta is still questionable, but it isn't a sin.

2) Swap out the 5 Havocs for a 3-man squad of Obliterators.

I'm not so keen on this because you actually lose firepower. Obliterators bring the least guns of any choice for their points, and really only shine when you need to cover two opposite gaps (ie TL-Flamers for anti-horde and Meltaguns for anti-AV14). You need good, reliable AV10-12 busting, and Havocs give you the most bang for your buck there.

3) Use the 5 models that were previously being used as Havocs as Chosen instead. Give them cool guns and get another Rhino for them to infiltrate in.
4) Add a Greater Daemon (somehow). Maybe have him take over the body of the champion with the Chosen when he comes into play.
5) Drop the Berserkers entirely to help pay the point cost of all this other stuff. I never wanted to use them but my only other option currently is to run a unit of Possessed, and that sucks.

Let's take these three together. First, if you Infiltrate them, they can't bring a transport. Getting close to the enemy is just liable to get them killed, and so you'll find they are less reliable anti-tank units than Havocs. Now, my army revolves around Possessed and Daemons, and that's not just fluff. Possessed, like nearly all units deemed too expensive, merely need to be used so that all their facets come into play. I can and have written exhaustive playbooks and strategies for Possessed, so I won't get into it here. You need a hard assault unit, and Berserkers fit the bill.

No, what you need is direction. Trying to fit in the Greater/Chosen combo is an obvious sign of that. Figure out what aspect of your army you like, and work to enhance that. For instance, when I started out with the Battleforce I liked when my 15 IoN CSM and Nurgle Terminator Sorcerer would grind through enemy units. Using the Berserkers, I picked up Hammer and Anvil tactics, with my CSM holding a unit down for my Berserkers to finish off. But wasn't the hammer I liked, it was the anvil. So my army became as much anvil as I could muster with as little hammer as I could get away with, and that's worked well for me. Do you like shooting? Do you like speed? What part of your army do you like most?

Now, I suppose for my questions...

Deepstriking him is like voluntarily killing him. He's not on the board, so he can't cause damage or even distract. There are ways to keep him out of sight, especially when wings don't count for LoS. CSM need move in force, as one big ball of death and carnage. We aren't fast enough or shooty enough to do otherwise.

Your Prince and Dreadnought are fantastic in close combat against vehicles. You do need to kill armor at range, yes, so look to your Heavy Support. Havocs, Predators, and Obliterators are perfectly capable transport killers.

To the question of Extra Armor: you are paying half the price of the vehicle to mitigate a 16% chance. Now, when a vehicle's objective is moving (such as a Rhino full of Berserkers or a Dreadnought wanting to Assault) sometimes, though infrequently, this cost can be justified. When your Rhino is not bringing troops to the front, it has no need to move. Indeed, if it's job is to shoot then the Extra Armor doesn't help it at all.

Slow and Purposeful makes the unit always count as moving through difficult terrain. Models moving through difficult terrain are reduced to I1. GW saw fit to remove all grenades from them, so they have no way to bypass this.

Well, once again, you make a lot of good points.

In response to your "what do I like" question, I like melee. I like getting into melee as fast as possible, especially since my two most common enemy armies are super, extremely defensive (to the point of boredom). However, I don't really like speed for speed's sake - I only like that it would get me into range where I can actually roll dice sooner.

In your example of the hammer and anvil, I would probably prefer the hammer over the anvil.

On to other things...

I didn't know that Chosen couldn't infiltrate if they had a transport.

I suppose my inclusion of Chosen/Greater Daemon, Obliterators, and always wanting to deep strike my stuff, comes from getting shot really early every game. It feels, to me, like those choices will allow me to kinda sneak closer without getting shot and then surprise!

As an example, the last game I played: my 5 Havocs were in ruins standing at windows. It took them a turn to move up there, and couldn't shoot that turn. The enemy turn consisted of 2 units of Tau Crysis suits with something like 20 dice per unit emptying their bladders through those windows from half the board away. 3 of the Havocs died, and with only 2 missile launcher shots for the rest of the game, they only managed to glance the front armor of a transport once.

On the other hand, 3 Obliterators consist of more total wounds than 5 Havocs, they have a 2+ save, a 5++, are Fearless, standing in ruins doesn't slow them down at all (from their normal S&P speed), they could have fired on the same turn that they moved up to the windows, and they have better guns for killing transports. I understand your point about adding more Havocs to the unit, but you really don't think this is better/more survivable than the Havocs? 3 Obliterators cost 225 points, and right now the 5-man Havoc unit with 4 missile launchers and the IoN is 220.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a quick question, are you sure that a model can use the same psychic power twice in the same turn? At the end of the BRB section on "Psychic Shooting Attacks," it says, in parentheses, "(but still cannot use the same power twice in a turn)." I can't find anywhere in that same section that says that.

Deepstriking is not a horrible thing, its just with CSM you might want to use it a little differently. The two most common things are DS Obliterators to strategic points you would otherwise have to footslog to, and termicide units. Termicides are typically 3 Terminators with combimeltas DSed to enemy tanks/armour, and destroy them. I definitely wouldnt ditch your berserkers. As with the general consensus you NEED Rhinos to get your foot troops into combat, its the only way CSM works.

I would recommend learning your Demon Prince a little better, and to concentrate on learning your troop choices and how to use them effectively. Everything else is icing on the cake.

Some excellent posts in this thread. Has definitely helped me think about how to refine my army and it's playstyle.

Tangent, tell us how the any changes you make affect how fun and effective your army is. I will be very interested to find out.

Chosen can't bring the transport with if they Infiltrate, but they can still take one. They can use it when Outflanking or deploying normally. If you're going to try Chosen as a Deepstrike anchor, you have to commit to it. Nothing dies faster than 5 Marines 18" away from the enemy.

Tangent wrote:I understand your point about adding more Havocs to the unit, but you really don't think this is better/more survivable than the Havocs? 3 Obliterators cost 225 points, and right now the 5-man Havoc unit with 4 missile launchers and the IoN is 220.

And there's your problem. Now, pay for 3 Havocs and a IoCG instead of that god damned IoN and look how much better the unit is. The problem with Obliterators is that they can be Instant Deathed, and at 36+" the vast majority of weapons aimed at them will do so. Havocs have no such vulnerabilities, and will always survive 4 wounds before losing guns. Oblits only survive 1 in any case.

Your problem with mobility is relative to your skill with deployment. A trick you might consider (once you have more Rhinos) is having a Rhino cover the 4 bolters, granting cover to the 4 MLs without obstructing LoS.

As a quick question, are you sure that a model can use the same psychic power twice in the same turn? At the end of the BRB section on "Psychic Shooting Attacks," it says, in parentheses, "(but still cannot use the same power twice in a turn)." I can't find anywhere in that same section that says that.

FAQ_ChaosSpaceMarines_2009 wrote:Q. Can Ahriman use the same power two or even three
times during the same turn?
A. Powers that are psychic shooting attacks can only be
used once per turn. Gift of Chaos can be used multiple
times, as it is not a psychic shooting attack. The same is
true for Warptime, but of course there is no point in
using this power more than once per turn!

Twisted, I've been thinking about using a Termicide unit! Thanks for the advice.

Artanis, I will definitely let you know. I'll likely be making these changes soon for my next game.

@Darkhound...

What do you mean by "commit to it" regarding the Chosen? You mean, spend points on making them unkillable? Spend points on more models in the unit?

So, what would you say Obliterators are good for? Or, rather, when would you say are Obliterators a better choice than Havocs?

I agree about skill with deployment :/

Regarding the multiple psychic powers in a turn thing, I read in the BRB FAQ, version 1.4:

"Q: Can a pysker attempt to cast the same psychic
power more than once in a turn? (p50)
A: No, unless the psychic power itself specifically allows
it."

Is the ruling that you quoted from the CSM FAQ another remnant of 4th edition, like the Dreadnought facing rules? I'm just curious which one takes precedence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple of random rules questions:

1) Can a Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos use this power from inside a transport without taking up a fire point slot? In essence, does this power require LoS?

2) Is a Powerfist really worth 25 points when meltabombs are only 5?

Tangent wrote:
What do you mean by "commit to it" regarding the Chosen? You mean, spend points on making them unkillable? Spend points on more models in the unit?

As in, make a commitment. Like, writing your WHOLE list around it.

Tangent wrote:
So, what would you say Obliterators are good for? Or, rather, when would you say are Obliterators a better choice than Havocs?

Obliterators are like a swiss army knife. Havocs with ML's, can be considered a pair of scissors. Sure, my swiss army knife has a pair of scissors in it, but they aren't the same quality. A vindicator is a pair of pliers- sure my swiss army knife has a pair of pliers, a tiny little pair with no real power behind them. Or a predator is a kitchen knife, I mean sure you can use your swiss army knife to cut the veggies, but is your nice kitchen knife going to do it better?
Orks/guardsmen/T3 models with bad armor saves don't like flamers.
Marines and terminators etc don't like plasma guns, or plasma cannons
Vehicles and dreadnoughts don't like meltas or multimeltas, or the occasional long range lascannon.
Monsterous creatures don't like plasma or melta weaponry.

Oblits have a weapon to take down ANYTHING. They cost 75 points per model though. For example, I can get an AC/Las pred for 120 (although with CSM preds are a wee bit more expensive... 130? I can't remember, although it IS less than 150, two oblits). Now lets say I get two oblits to get the points closer- 150 vs 120.

My oblits can shoot two lascannons per turn
My pred can shoot two lascannons and an auto cannon per turn.
My pred can get a maximum of 4 penetrating hits on a vehicle per turn.
My oblits can get two maximum.

My pred can kill a max of 4 gaunts per turn.
My oblits have flamers, and can kill a bucketload of gaunts with their two twinlinked flamers.

My pred can kill 4 terminators a turn, max. A good chance to kill two of them, with AP2 lascannons. They still get a 2+ save vs autocannons though.
My oblits can kill 4 terminators per turn easily with their twinlinked rapidfiring plasmaguns. Or if the terminators are clumped up, they can easily kill 8 with their plasmacannons.

My pred can only hurt a landraider with its lascannons, it needs a 3+ to hit, then a 5 to glance, and a 6 to penetrate.
My oblits can fire a twinlinked meltagun each (if in range), which needs a 3+ to hit with rerolls, then 6 to glance on two dice. The average roll of two dice is 7. OR, they can use their multimeltas and hit on a 3+ with no rerolls, and a 6 to glance on two dice. The average roll is still 7, and you get to do it this way 6" further away from the meltagun range.

Oblits are a swiss army knife. They can do anything, BUT they are expensive and low in numbers. They can cover a gap, but not all your gaps all at once.

Tangent wrote:
1) Can a Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos use this power from inside a transport without taking up a fire point slot? In essence, does this power require LoS?

2) Is a Powerfist really worth 25 points when meltabombs are only 5?

Makes sense. So, I guess the Obliterators are better than Havocs when you don't know what kind of army you'll be specifically facing?

Ok, so last night I put together a list. Here it is:

Daemon Prince - Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime, Doombolt - 185

8 Thousand Suns with 1 Sorcerer - Personal Icon, Gift of Chaos - 279
8 Berserkers incl. 1 Champion - Personal Icon, Powerfist - 213
7 CSM - IoCG, Meltagun - 125

8 Havocs - IoCG, 4 Missile Launchers - 210
2 Chaos Spawn - 80

Rhino - 35
Dreadnought - Multi-melta - 100

Total - 1227

I usually play at 1500 points, so I have 273 points to spend on whatever. The only models I currently own that I am not using in this list are a single Sorcerer HQ and a unit of 5 Possessed. I went pretty light on equipment to get a sense of what else I might want to take. I could take extra armor on the rhino or dread, meltabombs on the units with champions, different chaos icons... I can assign the rhino to whatever, and I can't decide if I want that to go to the Thousand Suns (being S&P) or the Berserkers (being my main CC unit) I suppose I could put the Thousand Suns in it and use it to give cover to my Berserkers. Or vice versa. I could also put different weapons on the Havocs or Dread, and put a weapon on the rhino. I could probably do ALL of these things that I just mentioned with the points remaining, or I could take another unit from the ones I have available. One other thing I want to mention that I realize is that, right now, I have nothing deep striking and so the personal icons are a waste of points.

I know I need another Rhino and want to pick one up. I'm also interested in using the following units, mainly because I think they're cool and would be fun:

Termicide unit
Greater Daemon
Obliterators
Maybe a Special Character, like Fabius Bile

So, what do you guys think of the list? What should I do with the remaining 273 points? Of the units that I'm interested in, what would be good?

I just want to say thanks for all the help, guys, especially DarkHound and Jihallah. This started as a question about tanks and has blossomed into something that helps me a lot! I really appreciate it.

you could get a second deamon prince, then you will have 2 very deadly things flying everywhere, and if one dies its not that big of a deal.

or get Kharn and some Bezerkers in a Rhino, that is a deadly anti-infantry force that could help.

just my opinion i guess

A fun Daemon prince to try out is the Spartan prince, Wings and warptime (no mark of chaos- spartan prince because of the spartan choice of upgrades, no 300 reference ). It's simple and cheap, whooping asses and taking names. If you were to change your prince to that, and drop the...wait a second...

Drop the personal Icons from the beserkers and the thousand sons. You have nothing in the army that can actually use those icons (the DP is the only thing that can deepstrike, but the icons only guide if you are teleporting down or summoned ie oblits/terminators/lesser daemons). That and changing the DP to a spartan prince will net you enough points to get another rhino, because one rhino does die pretty quickly. Unless you are going to bring some termicide units or oblits, I'd just drop them. With your remaining points, you can fit 2 oblits and 3 terms with combimeltas and a chainfist, and have points left over.

Another thing to think about is the 7 CSM, and making them 10 CSM with 2 meltaguns. The reasoning is luck- if you fire one melta shot, and its that one shot you NEED to hit, that one crucial piece of enemy armor you NEED to destroy, and you roll a one. Its like a slap to the face . Taking two reduces that chance of rolling badly. The more effective firepower you can pour onto an enemy, the greater effect you will have. A 'nid friend was bitching the other day because I dropped his hive tyrant in one volley from a squad of CSM- 4 shots hit, 4 shots wound, no armor save, goodbye Mr Tyrant. BUT, if I had only one plasmagun, I would not have been able to drop him like that.

Also, a fun little unit is 10 CSM w/ 2x flamer or melta (because plasma is not an assault weapon), IoK and a champ with fist/p.weap, I prefer the melta/fist route. 10 CSM with an IoK get 1 attack base, 2 for two weapons, +1 from the icon, so 3 attacks- 4 if they charge. With meltaguns they threaten armor, and they threaten non-dedicated CC units in assault, and can guide a teleporting unit with the icon. That's the only CSM unit I'd give a Icon to outside of IocG, and even then it would be in a khorne themed army. Still a fun unit

Jihallah wrote:With your remaining points, you can fit 2 oblits and 3 terms with combimeltas and a chainfist, and have points left over.

Buy a single box of Terminators and convert the two Oblits from the left over weapons. I just saved you 50 bucks.

Jihallah gives good advice, but skipped over this: DROP THE SPAWN. You still get to use them with Gift of Chaos, but they are the second worst model in the game if you pay for them.

DarkHound wrote:you still get to use them with Gift of Chaos, but they are the second worst model in the game if you pay for them.

wait, whats worse than spawn? (I know this sounds like a joke set up, but I'm pretty damn serious what is worse than spawn?)

Space Pope.

Who is the Space Pope? But I love the Chaos Spawn :(

And Jihallah, I'm assuming you mention "will net you enough points to get another rhino" in reference to a list that is not as high as 1500 points?

Etherals I think.

Wha?

The Tau Etherals, or that one "special" one are very, very bad.

if it dies everyone rolls for a leadership test and it messes up EVERYTHING. and its useless in combat so its just wasted points

thats what i remember about the space pope

Aaahhhh Yes. The infamous space pope. Definitely takes the cake.

And I mean it will net you enough points to get a rhino without going over what your had already written up. Or I took enough crap off the top to afford another rhino

I still don't know what the Space Pope is. :(

Aun'Va, Master of the Undying Spirit: Space Pope. He is the greatest of Tau Ethereals and as such optimizes their rules. He costs 205 points, is accompanied by two T3(5) bodyguards which prevent him from joining other units, forces all units in LoS to be Stubborn (which you don't want as a Tau player), and when slain causes an army-wide morale check. Did I mention they are only Ld8?