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Made in se
Ground Crew





Jonkoping

I just bought two boxes with guardsmen/veterans and one Imperial Guard Leman Russ Demolisher pack , and a command squad .

Now i don't now what to give to them and what items to choose .

The main army that im up against are , 2 csm vindicators , 1 warpsmith , typhus , 28 plague marines , 10 havoc squad soldiers.

Now how should i gear my soldiers to take down the warp smith ad the csm vindicators??
   
Made in au
Imperial Agent Provocateur




Mystical Warp Storm

Not a bad choice for building a base IG army, you need infantry, CSS and a tank, however
for the list I'm thinking more you would need to have some decent amount of cash on hand

Not sure point range so......

HQ

Lord Commissar
-70 points

Troops

Platoon Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-50 points

Veteran Squad
-3x MG's
-155 points

Platoon Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-50 points

Veteran Squad
-3x PG's
-Chimera
-170 points

Fast Attack

Vendetta
-130 points

Vendetta
-130 points

A grand total of 755 points. You can also incorporate your Lemun Rush Demolisher
which would add to 920 points. I think this is too much points though -.-

If your feeling tight on your budget scrap a vendetta and veterans squad and fill the
rest of your points with infantry armed with autocannons.


"We need a new driver, this one is dead"



 
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





 Traffic Conez wrote:
Not a bad choice for building a base IG army, you need infantry, CSS and a tank, however
for the list I'm thinking more you would need to have some decent amount of cash on hand

Not sure point range so......

HQ

Lord Commissar
-70 points

Troops

Platoon Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-50 points

Veteran Squad
-3x MG's
-155 points

Platoon Command Squad
-4x Flamers
-50 points

Veteran Squad
-3x PG's
-Chimera
-170 points

Fast Attack

Vendetta
-130 points

Vendetta
-130 points

A grand total of 755 points. You can also incorporate your Lemun Rush Demolisher
which would add to 920 points. I think this is too much points though -.-

If your feeling tight on your budget scrap a vendetta and veterans squad and fill the
rest of your points with infantry armed with autocannons.



Well this list is illigal, you did not complete your platoon. Vet's are seperate units and do not count as platoon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Nordicwargaming wrote:
I just bought two boxes with guardsmen/veterans and one Imperial Guard Leman Russ Demolisher pack , and a command squad .

Now i don't now what to give to them and what items to choose .

The main army that im up against are , 2 csm vindicators , 1 warpsmith , typhus , 28 plague marines , 10 havoc squad soldiers.

Now how should i gear my soldiers to take down the warp smith ad the csm vindicators??


How many points is this game?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/19 09:47:21


Imperial Guard 4000 points
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Made in se
Ground Crew





Jonkoping

around 1000 to 1500
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

If you only have 2 boxes of grunts you need to run them as Vets. Best way to use them is with either 3x Plasma guns or Meltas Guns in either a Chimera or Vendetta. With your russ don't glue on the turret gun or sponsons. Magnatise them so you can change them around at later times. Demolishers are pretty good once your in range but don't give them any upgrades they run best when left bare bones.
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





What kind of gameplay would you like? Just sit back, ride around or what do you want?

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Imperial Agent Provocateur




Mystical Warp Storm

What veterans are troops....fine then scrub the vendetta's and get some infantry -.-

But that means every IG army must have 2x PCM and 4x IS to fulfill the minium of 2
troops, I hardly see anyone with that....all these lists are illegal, one way or another

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528017.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527548.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526929.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527180.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527039.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page

I think its just accepted that veterans can be part of the troop orginisation even though
the codex says otherwise....I may be wrong though most of the theoried list I have
presented to my LFGS passed it as legit..oh well

"We need a new driver, this one is dead"



 
   
Made in nl
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






North of your position

You need to buy PCS as a platoon unit.

Two veteran squads is two troop units, since they are not part of a platoon.

   
Made in nz
Camouflaged Zero





Auckland, New Zealand

uhh conez, those lists are legal. A veteran squad takes up one troops slot and a platoon takes up one troops FOC slot. But a platoon has 1 PCS, 2-5 IS, 0-3 Specials, 0-5 HWS. Veterans are separate to the platoon infantry squads. The vets are like penal legion in the regard that they are independent of infantry platoons.
Back to the OP though with what to get next, you'd need more basic guardsmen as a start. Pretty much if you run them as veterans you generally want some sort of transports, so there's an extra cost on the chimeras or fliers or whatever. In running as platoons you would need more guys, but are less likely to have them in transports (the PCS is a common exception however). So often when starting up you'll be looking at either getting more guys, or fewer guys but transports included. So I think that cost wise it roughly balances out. From what you have, you could easily go any way.

If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush

The easy way is always mined

 
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





I love to do this vs marines without flyers:
HQ:
CCS/las cannon/2 plas 100 points
Troop:
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Fast attack:
Vendetta 130 points
Heavy support:
Demolisher 165 points
Fortification:
ADL 50 points

This is 850 points for a basic veteran gunline. Where you only have to buy the ADL, one set of HWT (and find a 60 mm base put a nice basing, a lascannon and 2 man on it tada, another HWT) a vendetta and convert the plasma guns. And one other set. From this on you can just expand. Sit back and shoot everything. If you play against flyers, stick in the Quad gun and a Lord commissar with camo for a Sv 3+ Bs 5 quad gun with interceptor.

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Imperial Agent Provocateur




Mystical Warp Storm

Oh right....I feel so dum need to read more FAQ's on guard codex instead on relying on
public opinions...

"We need a new driver, this one is dead"



 
   
Made in se
Ground Crew





Jonkoping

I where thinking about having one grenade launcher and one sniper rifle in each veteran squad just to get the heavy weapon strength and range that ig needs against plague marines
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

I wouldn't bother with GL or Snipers. GL are just under shadowed by plasma and if you want snipers take ratlings.
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





 commisar_simon wrote:
I love to do this vs marines without flyers:
HQ:
CCS/las cannon/2 plas 100 points
Troop:
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Vet's/las cannon/ 3 plas 135 points
Fast attack:
Vendetta 130 points
Heavy support:
Demolisher 165 points
Fortification:
ADL 50 points

This is 850 points for a basic veteran gunline. Where you only have to buy the ADL, one set of HWT (and find a 60 mm base put a nice basing, a lascannon and 2 man on it tada, another HWT) a vendetta and convert the plasma guns. And one other set. From this on you can just expand. Sit back and shoot everything. If you play against flyers, stick in the Quad gun and a Lord commissar with camo for a Sv 3+ Bs 5 quad gun with interceptor.


Beleive me try this

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Made in se
Ground Crew





Jonkoping

i will
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





Btw another tank would do this list great

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Jonkoping

should i have a large area blast tank or a direct hit tank?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ok, so in general would you guys recommend building an IG army with definite units or would you recommend having extras for adding different options for different opponents?

For example why go with 3 vet squads with 3 identical layouts? Seems like that would be good for some opponents, and not so much for others.

OR is it just a bad idea to give yourself too many options with guard? Do we need to say "this is how my IG force fights" and go with it?

The reason I ask is because for the most part you can interchange models for vets or infantry or command squad. All you need is a few extra special or heavy weapons models and there ya go.


 
   
Made in se
Ground Crew





Jonkoping

true , the main thing is to be able to do you're best .Of course winning is the best thing but a fun game can also make you're day
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





VanHallan wrote:
Ok, so in general would you guys recommend building an IG army with definite units or would you recommend having extras for adding different options for different opponents?

For example why go with 3 vet squads with 3 identical layouts? Seems like that would be good for some opponents, and not so much for others.

OR is it just a bad idea to give yourself too many options with guard? Do we need to say "this is how my IG force fights" and go with it?

The reason I ask is because for the most part you can interchange models for vets or infantry or command squad. All you need is a few extra special or heavy weapons models and there ya go.


Well I would recommend (as playing tournaments) a list that can compete with any list. I would go 3 veteran squads with 3 identical layouts becouse this covers any kind of AV or unit. S9 Ap2 for the lascannon. S7 Ap2 rapidfire for the plasma. Also if you have multiple of the same unit, it can give you backup. It doesn't matter if you lose one. Becouse you have one that can do the same for you. It is not bad to give your guard to many options. But I would say don't overdo it. Don't give every one or two veteran squads another option. Becouse I need unit marking for my models I have an sergeant and 6 lasgun models marked with a one becouse thats the max of lasguns I would play. I always have or Vets with 3 spec weps or normal with 1 spec 1 heavy. I have all the seperate special and heavy weapons marked one and up with each model. That way I can have variations in my army without wasting models.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

The most important thing you should be noting from this is that people are recommending that you pack your lists with good special and/or heavy weapons. That's probably the first step you should take, regardless of if you want to run those infantry as vets or as platoons.



Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

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Jonkoping

Is it worth to give my soldiers camocloak ?
   
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Vallejo, CA

Generally not, though a single squad with them to hold backfield objectives isn't the worst thing. Give them Harker and they get a 2+ cover save without even needing to go to ground, which isn't too shabby.

The moment you break cover, though, they're back down to a measly 5+ save. Not that difficult to kill guardsmen with a 5+ save, therefore, it's not the best upgrade for a unit that you want to move anywhere.

Unless you're looking for a very fluffy sniper-style list... but, well... good luck winning games with that.



Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in au
Sneaky Sniper Drone




Dakka already has a comprehensive guard guide here

It is for 5th, but it can spill over to 6th.

Nearly everything about how to equip or use your PCS, CCS and vets is in there.
   
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WI

 Traffic Conez wrote:
What veterans are troops....fine then scrub the vendetta's and get some infantry -.-

But that means every IG army must have 2x PCM and 4x IS to fulfill the minium of 2
troops, I hardly see anyone with that....all these lists are illegal, one way or another

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528017.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527548.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526929.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527180.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527039.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page

I think its just accepted that veterans can be part of the troop orginisation even though
the codex says otherwise....I may be wrong though most of the theoried list I have
presented to my LFGS passed it as legit..oh well


List 4, 5, and 6 are all legal lists, the rest are illegal. I will also point out the post count of those people with illegal lists are really low, some are single digit. This means you should take it on yourself to double check their facts. What a lot of people mess up is platoons, not vets. At the top of the page above the Platoon Command Squad they mist the minimum and maximum units that can be part of a single platoon. Each platoon counts as a single troop choice, as do a single squad of vets.

Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
Made in au
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Mystical Warp Storm

I understand my mistake now, its to do with not completing the platoon lists

"We need a new driver, this one is dead"



 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

Robinson92 wrote:
Dakka already has a comprehensive guard guide here

It is for 5th, but it can spill over to 6th.

Nearly everything about how to equip or use your PCS, CCS and vets is in there.


This guide has a message saying it has been removed.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

And a lot changed for guard from 5th to 6th. Best let that article lie.



Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Read "The Geomides Affair", now on sale! No bolter porn. Not another inquisitor story. A book written by a dakkanought for dakkanoughts!
 
   
Made in nl
Fighter Pilot





 BlkTom wrote:
 Traffic Conez wrote:
What veterans are troops....fine then scrub the vendetta's and get some infantry -.-

But that means every IG army must have 2x PCM and 4x IS to fulfill the minium of 2
troops, I hardly see anyone with that....all these lists are illegal, one way or another

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528017.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527548.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/526929.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527180.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527039.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/527052.page

I think its just accepted that veterans can be part of the troop orginisation even though
the codex says otherwise....I may be wrong though most of the theoried list I have
presented to my LFGS passed it as legit..oh well


List 4, 5, and 6 are all legal lists, the rest are illegal. I will also point out the post count of those people with illegal lists are really low, some are single digit. This means you should take it on yourself to double check their facts. What a lot of people mess up is platoons, not vets. At the top of the page above the Platoon Command Squad they mist the minimum and maximum units that can be part of a single platoon. Each platoon counts as a single troop choice, as do a single squad of vets.


All legal list, I don't see why they wouln't be.

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WI

As to the OP and for VanHallan's question, in 6th ed, Terminator armor is king. Anything you can pack that can effectively kill terminators can also kill everything else in the game. When you go up from that point, to say Heavy Bolters, which has a lot of shots, but is Str 5 and AP 5, you are then hoping to force your opponent to fail on armor saves. While this can be a legit tactic, armor saves are normally the unit's best save (Power armor is a 3+ armor save, for example). You are, in fact, adding a extra step that might save their guys that plasma, melta, and Lascannons otherwise ignore. When you remove armor, they then have to find other ways of making saves, such as with cover saves. Lucky for us, a Order from your Company Command Squad is 'Fire on my target!' which means if your CCS can see the target, and the order gets through, the target has to re-roll any successful cover saves.

Now, as neat as this is, you as an Imperial Guard player have to realize that your most common weapon is the lowly lasgaun. It is only Str 3 and allows any armor save. The only good thing about it is that you have a 24" range and the weapon is Rapid Fire (at 12" or less). This weapon uses the tactic of the heavy bolter. You throw out as many shots as possible, and hope enough hit, wound, and failed armor saves gives you a kill or two. There is also an Order called 'First rank Fire! Second rank Fire!' that gives your lasguns (and only lasguns) and extra shot. So 2 shots out to 24" and 3 shots within 12". Let me give you an example... I shot 52 lasgun shots at a Blood Angle Assault Squad with a Sang Priest (gives the unit Feel No Pain). After missing with nearly half the shots due to BS 3, not getting a lot of wounds with a Str 3 weapon vs T 4 marines, their 3+ armor save, and then Feel no Pain rolls for the few that did fail their armor save, I killed 1 guy... with 52 shots. And to a lot of experienced gamers, they might say that I was lucky to get that. You can't depend on just lasguns, but in a pinch shoot /a lot/ of them at your opponent when you have nothing else to do with them might kill a guy or two. Your real workhorses in killing things are your special and heavy weapons.

Now lets talk about special weapons and heavy weapons. If your attacking or if you want to charge for some odd reason (hey, sometimes it is better to charge them then let them charge you) you should look at melta guns. They only have a 12" range, but if a vehicle is within 6", you roll 2d6 armor penetration and it is Str 8, AP 1. There is also no 'Get's Hot!' roll for it so you don't accidently kill yourself. It is also cheaper (Dakka Dakka rules do not allow me to point points for equipment) than the Plasma gun and has the Assault rule, so you can fire them and then charge... which you can't with Plasma guns and even Lasguns. On a side note, Str 8 does have a habbit of inflicting Instant Death against multi-wound T4 units... like on a marine Captain that doesn't have Eternal Warrior.

Plasma guns are /huge/ in 6th because they are Str 7, AP 2, 24" range Rapid Fire weapon. This means if they are within 12", you get 2 shots! They are not as effective against vehicles as Meltas are, but a light armor transport (AV 12 or less) can easily be destroyed by Plasma. The range means you start hurting the enemy at range, they have the same range and Rapid Fire rule as the Lasguns so have excellent synergy there as well. If someone charges you, they will not like eating two plasma shots per plasma, plus all the lasgun shots (plasma units really should never charge an enemy...make them charge you). The big problem with Plasma is the cost (most expensive special weapon IG have) and the 'Gets Hot!' rule, which means every time you roll a one on a 'To Hit' roll the shooter automaticly suffers a wound. You get to roll your 5+ armor save, but if you fail you lose the Plasma gun. And the more shots you take, the better chance you get to roll a one.

Sniper Rifles, Grenade launchers, and Flamers all have a place. First off, they are cheap, and a IG player should never waste a special weapon slot. Flamers don't roll to hit, so a BS 3 Guardsman will always hit his target and Flamers do multiple hits on Overwatch (d3) and the enemy can not take cover saves against it. This is probably the 3rd best special weapon, IMO. But it has a short range and may only fire a few times in the game. Sniper rifles are a close tie, because they have good range and have the 'Rend' special ability. Every Wound roll of a 6 makes the Wound AP 2 (thus ignoring armor) and against a vehicle it allows a extra d3 or armor Pen (to a max of 12). IMO, if you do sniper Rifles, you want a lot of them for better chances of getting Rending attacks. Also, this is a great weapon to take down High Toughness Monsterous Creatures because you always wound on a 4+, regardless of toughness. An Eldar Wraithlord has a Toughness 8 for example and is a MC (unless it changes with the new Codex). Grenade Launchers though...they are Assault and have good range, but a Str 3, AP 6 blast (frag shot) blows and a Str 6 Krak shot is decent, but it is AP 4 and that is not. The standard for 40k is a Space marine, and if you have a single shot weapon that allows Power Armor saves, your really wasting your points and your time.

Heavy weapons... real easy breakdown here. Lascannons are king. Str 9, AP 2 at 48" has a chance to penetrate AV 14, Instant kill T4 multi wound figs, and pretty much kills infantry 1 fig at a time... any infantry that doesn't have a reliable Invuln save or cover save. Drawback is that it is also the most expensive Heavy Weapon you have and most heavy weapon squads and platoons are BS 3, so your only hitting 50% of the time. Missile Launchers are the next most expensive heavy weapon, but they are not the second best. Their Frag missle (Str 4, AP6) and their Krak missile (Str 8, AP 3) are decent. But Str 8 can only glance AV 14 and the Frag doesn't kill enough Hoard that other weapons can do cheaper. It just doesn't do either job better than other weapons... if you shoot at a Transport, a AC does it better for less points. If you had spent 5pts more, you /could/ have effected that AV 14. This leads me to the AC, the second best heavy weapon. Str 7, SP 4, TWO SHOTS. The Str means you can fire on transports, the AP+Str means you can hurt hoards better than Frag, and against good armored infantry, you have a extra shot to force them to make two saves. That extra shot also means, on BS 3, that you have a 75% chance of hitting with at least 1 shot, which is /really/ good for Guard. This is really the most versital weapon Guard have, but it can not touch the targets LCs can. This is why they compliment each other and are the best two weapons, specially when mixed in your list (these units have LCs, these have ACs... never mix weapons, you always want make sure all of your weapons effect the target the same).

As for Heavy Bolters and Mortars, they are really only useful against Hoards... but they are cheap. At the end of the day, you can ask yourself if you would have spent 5pts more for a AC would have been better and done more for your list. HB shots vs 6 AC shots, even against hoards such as Orks and Nids, the AC is killing more.

The problem most IG players face is this... the IG special weapon pack is a single melta gun and Plasma gun for $15 bucks. Your spending $45 bucks for potentially 1 squad. Or you can spend $40 bucks and get 20 plasma guns or melta guns by doing alittle work and using the GL arms to use these. I even leave on the glove, as I say it is a padded glove to protect the user and paint it brown. Heavy weapon squads can also be multi-purpose with using magnets, using the kneeling legs from the CCS and getting extra bases to make multiple units out of one box. You have to learn to streach your money... if anything, hit up stores like this ASAP as GW is trying to shut down bit sellers. It will be harder to get them shortly.

Hope this helps... Good luck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 commisar_simon wrote:


All legal list, I don't see why they wouln't be.


Your right... the posting of the lists was poorly done and where at a quick glance with all of the units looking to be listed under the PCS and not having PIS.

I hate it when people do not understand they can list a total for the unit, just can't list the equipment costs. I look for those point breaks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/21 09:47:41


Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG.  
   
 
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