Am still processing what I have read, dunno if anyone had mentioned that Skyfire would be available to regular Crisis teams as well as Riptides and Broadsides but the Velocity Tracker is open to all three slots.

You could turn a Crisis team into a dedicated anti air unit by giving them both a Velocity Tracker and an Early Warning Override which gives them interceptor as well as skyfire. Only problem is that they don't have a weapon that can compare to the Rail gun the broadsides get or to the 12 shots at Str7 a Missileside squad can put out. Broadsides can't get interceptor though, it kind of sucks they got the short end of the stick when it comes to support systems.

I don't really expect there is much strategy to it:

Step 1:
Add Skyfire
Step 2:
Shoot Fliers
Step 3:
Profit.

Pretty simple really.

Keep in mind though that piling on the skyfire and interceptor mods isn't the cheapest thing in the world, and in many cases will prevent you from choosing more universally effective wargear to compliment your suits. Depending on your local metagame, you'll probably find that adding a broadside with missiles and skyfire and maybe parking it behind an ADL with a quadgun is more than enough AA.

When you have two heldrakes coming in to cook your firewarriors or crisis suits you will want more than just a few Str 7 interceptor shots.

The missiles on the Broadsides are still only Str7.

perhaps. And when you don't play against heldrakes, do you really want your entire force loaded up on skyfire that now snapfires against most of the opposing force? At best that is essentially 10 points more than they should be for no real force multiplying benefit (presuming interceptor 'and' skyfire) unless your opponent is taking a lot of fliers and at worst your broadsides will sit there twiddling their thumbs and taking ineffectual potshots while your opponents mostly land-based units rofl-stomp their way through your lines.

it definately pays to be prepared which is why i said you probably want one or two AA options, but going full-'skyfire' is probably going to bad for your overall win percentage.

Interceptor is something that no other army has really gotten a chance to get and we can take it on a lot of deadly units. I expect that it will be limited to a few long range hard hitting builds to make bubbles to warn off deep striking, drop podding, and flying units. This alone is a huge boon and something that other armies only get 1 of.

Some more interesting units I think will be a cheap HQ build with drone controller, teamed up with a drone squad filled with shield and marker drones. These will all be shooting markers at BS5, be much more manueverable, and defended than pathfinders. Since tetras and pathfinders are weaker now, and the reliance on markers will be heavier thanks to army wide BS3 and new access to low AP weapons. I'm thinking this will be the support unit of choice. I'm actually considering running two of them for all marker needs.

I know a lot of people are excited about the missileside, but not me. I'll probably run it with S8 railguns and leave the S7 AP4 for my other suits. With drones now able to carry missiles, I don't see this being too amazing. I know drones will only be BS2, but they are cheap enough to take plenty of for extra support.

Step 1: Spam markerlights. This is not Codex:Tau, it's Codex:Markerlights. With markerlights your units are awesome. Without them you're a shooting-only army that is limited to BS 2-3. You're probably going to need to spend 25-50% or more of your points on markerlights.

Step 2: Spam missile drones. Since you have tons of markerlights they're cheap BS 5 "autocannons". Every unit in your army should have at least a pair, and if you can possibly take more than two drones per unit you should do so without question.

Enjoy your new codex.

My initial reactions:

Fully loaded Fish+Ethereal extra shot+coming off a board edge with the recon drone=36 S5 shots from the dudes+ another 8 from the Fish with an effective 27" threat range. That's pretty a pretty nasty combo of mobile scoring and death for 200 points.



I think the 6+ FNP is being under sold a bit. I mean, DEldar and BA pay 50+ to give 5+ FNP to one or two units, you're getting half the FNP but to every unit in the board. From a pure resiliency per point of model increase it kicks the crap out of Priests or Haemies (or Res Orbs for that matter) all of which are considered very good for their respective armies. And it can turn it into something that is better for the moment. Pretty awesome.



Vespids really aren't bad at all for their price. A full squad shooting+assaulting with Hammer of Wrath kills ~6.77 MEq on the charge, making them a very effective counterattack unit to hang around your squishy gun lines. I think many people will often pass them over for more pewpew (and pewpew augmentation) out of the FA slot, but I think that will be to their detriment. Tau's Achilles will still be CC and just one of these units could keep some scary MEq CC unit from completely running through your entire gun line. And yes, they are a CC unit, just one that's designed to basically wipe the unit out on the assault, or leave it so crippled that the T4 and 4+ are enough to keep you relatively unscathed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

You're probably going to need to spend 25-50% or more of your points on markerlights.

That seems just slightly over zealous. Markelights will be good, no doubt, but if you spend anywhere close to 50% of your points on them you will lose a lot of games.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I mean, DEldar and BA pay 50+ to give 5+ FNP to one or two units, you're getting half the FNP but to every unit in the board.

The downside is that, unlike marines, you don't get FNP against STR 6-7 weapons (crisis suits would, but they tend to attract STR 8+ shots anyway).

That seems just slightly over zealous. Markelights will be good, no doubt, but if you spend anywhere close to 50% of your points on them you will lose a lot of games.

Yes, that was exaggerated a bit, but the fundamental point is still true: Tau units suck without markerlights, and are awesome with markerlights. Therefore you will have to pay the markerlight tax.

I would not bother with skyfire on most suits, broadsides get the most firepower (while also being immune to the heldrake) so for an upgrade that is fixed cost you want to spend it on the units with the most shots.

Some clerifications here:

The Velocity Tracker allows the unit to choose to use skyfire or not. It doesnt lock them into only skyfire, so you don't need to have both skyfire and intercepter. It is 20pts though, so broadsides will probably make the most use of it.

All of the ethereal elemental powers are in a 12" bubble, not table wide.

Hrm.. Fire Warrior Shas'ui can't take Blacksun filters.

Darkstrider, Cadre Fireblade or Fire warrior Shas'ui can't take a multitracker so they can't fire their gun and the markerlight. Shas'ui and Cadre Fireblade's can take up to two drones each, but no Drone Controller.

Wish the Ethereal let units use his leadership for Split Fire on "Failure is Not An Option" and "Supreme Loyalty" rolls.

Aun'Shi.. are we supposed to attach him to and slow down a unit of Vespids or something? His focus seems very out of place for the Tau Code of Fire.

Take Etheral HQs, a Cadre Fireblade attached to a full unit of Pathfinders with a Pulse Accel Drone. Tuck them behind a ADL and get 40 Carbine shots (Assault 2 + Volley Fire+ Storm of Fire) out to 12 inches and 30 (Assault 2 + Volley Fire) shots at 12.1 to 24inches. All for the low price of 235 points. Who needs markerlights when you have that much lead in the air?

A Fire Warrior version will put out 48 shots (Rapid Fire + Volley Fire + Storm of Fire) out to 15 inches and 24 shots at 15.1 to 30 inches. That will cost you 218 points

Codex says that a Drone Squad is non-scoring non-denial unit, which would override the base rule book mission rule of The Scouring?

For a regular Crisis Suit Commander, take an Advanced Targeting System and try to get a 1 on your Warlord trait roll.. Add Missile Pods and Burst Cannons/Plasma Rifle for Precision shot madness.

Sniper Drone squads lost Shrouded on top of Stealth and his markerlight lost the Networked ability (guess the thought of two marksmen shooting two networked markerlights at BS5, stripping cover saves then having the drones shoot them at BS5 with SxAP5 guns was too scary.)

For now, most of the Skyfire capable weapons on the field are on fortifications?, which are also interceptor weapons. Cheap Decoy Launchers on our flyers and anything you move in from reserves will give you a nice invuln save. The write up for Interceptor does not appear to be a toggle, could argue that anytime a weapon with interceptor fires on a vehicle with Decoy Launchers you would get the invuln save.

A Riptide with the Heavy Burst Cannon and a Velocity Tracker going Nova Charge mode seems the best way to get shots on a flyer to glance it down.

The loss of tank Multi Trackers allowing the Hammerhead to fire as a Fast vehicle hurts, would it have been too much to let Longstrike fire as a Fast Vehicle especially given his fluff write up?

Gundrone squads got a point increase, but considering the buff to their toughness and their gun I can deal. Take a Crisis Commander, add a Drone Controller and two Gun Drones of his own, a MultiSpec Sensor Suit, a Flamer and Twin Link Burst Cannon (If they are getting a cover save, don't shoot the commander to take advantage of the Sensors) and attach him to a full 8 man squad of Gun Drones. 20 Twin Linked Carbine shots at BS5 that ignores cover.

Pathfinder Squad with a Recon Drone, pay the Devil Fish Tax.. Start in your Devilfish and as far from your opponent as possible. Scout move your Fish 12 inches to the opposite board edge, Cruise then Flat out to get the remaining inches you need to get to the opposite board edge. Turn 2 use your comm relay to reroll your Reserve rolls and Outflank your Shadowsun + Bodyguards/Stealthsuits, Firewarriors + Darkstrider, Stealth Suit Team, or Kroot Blob on their table side without having to roll for a table edge.

Rule 1: If it can take missile drones it should take missile drones. The only exception is riptides who has to pay 25 points for the drone. Paying 34 point for your firewarrior team to get a leader and 2 missile drones is a good thing. Are army has just become a s7 spam.

Okay real tactics:
Cadre Fireblade + aegis defense line and quad gun - fireblade is an extremely cheap HQ, HS bs5 so can man the quad gun very well and because you are behind the defense line your firewarriros are not going to be moving, meaning an extra shot. Very nice cheap camp and great anti-air.

Crisis sash'vre with command and control node, multi-spectrum sensor suit and flamer. 72 points that allows your unit to re-roll missed hits and ignore cover. This is very important if you remember rule 1 always take missile drones, because suddenly your bs2 missile drones are TL'd. with 2 suits and 6 missile drones you are pumping out 16 tl s7 shots. You should be able to shoot down any night scythe that comes your way, with a few marker light hits this unit should also take down any av13 or less, destroy 4+ armor and force a lot of saves from MEQs to monstrous creatures.

Miri wrote:
Who needs markerlights when you have that much lead in the air?

Everyone. That's a lot of points for a mere 20 hits (average) when instead you could be using their markerlights to make your riptide blast shots ignore cover, crisis suits shoot at BS 5, etc.

Sniper Drone squads lost Shrouded on top of Stealth and his markerlight lost the Networked ability (guess the thought of two marksmen shooting two networked markerlights at BS5, stripping cover saves then having the drones shoot them at BS5 with SxAP5 guns was too scary.)

You have drone controllers on BS 5 models. Your sniper drones are BS 5 already, the markerlights are just a bonus for someone else to benefit from (in fact they're really the whole point of the unit, 3x drones + 3x spotters is probably ideal).

Another tactic I was thinking about was crisis commander with iridium armor and stimulant injectors. Plop this in front of your unit to soak up all the fire. If you are being hit by AP1/2 weapons you can look out sir to another unit (crisis suits have 2 wounds so you can distribute wounds before anything dies) You only risk a 1/6 chance that the AP1/2 shot will wound your commander but he has 4 wounds so its not a huge deal and he is t5 so only s10 hit instant kill him. If you are being hit by AP3+ weapons your commander should take it. Between sv2 and feel no pain it will take 27 shots to do 3 wounds. It is risky but allows your team to take a TON of damage before anything dies. If your commander gets to 1 wound you can hide him in the middle of the unit.

 Peregrine wrote:
Step 1: Spam markerlights. This is not Codex:Tau, it's Codex:Markerlights. With markerlights your units are awesome. Without them you're a shooting-only army that is limited to BS 2-3. You're probably going to need to spend 25-50% or more of your points on markerlights.

Still get Markerlights from Tetras or are pathfinders the way to go now that they are tax free?

Also what is your thought on taking Farsight + Generic HQ to get crisis suits and then dropping Riptides into the elite slots to get both?

(crisis suits have 2 wounds so you can distribute wounds before anything dies)

No, you can't. Re-read the LOS rules and related FAQs.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

(crisis suits have 2 wounds so you can distribute wounds before anything dies)

No, you can't. Re-read the LOS rules and related FAQs.

Okay re-read the faq's. You can't distribute the wounds in a single shooting phase but you can over time and still protect your commander.

My two big questions will be.

Should everything be in a devilfish? And should I bring a flier.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

I think the 6+ FNP is being under sold a bit. I mean, DEldar and BA pay 50+ to give 5+ FNP to one or two units, you're getting half the FNP but to every unit in the board.

Not every unit. Every unit within 12" of the Ethereal.

 Nafarious wrote:
My two big questions will be.

Should everything be in a devilfish? And should I bring a flier.

No and maybe no.

Devilfish are still pretty expensive. They got a little bit of a boost with SMS but between D-pod nerf and gun drones not counting as scoring units, I personally would not take them. My favorite thing to do in the old codex was to flat out my devil fish to the the side of the table getting a nice jink bonus and then dropping off my gun drones in a secluded corner for line breaker.

The fliers are paper thin and doesn't really pack as much of a punch as you would hope for its point cost. If the army you are facing has any kind of anti-air kiss your flier goodbye.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Step 1: Spam markerlights. This is not Codex:Tau, it's Codex:Markerlights. With markerlights your units are awesome. Without them you're a shooting-only army that is limited to BS 2-3. You're probably going to need to spend 25-50% or more of your points on markerlights.

Still get Markerlights from Tetras or are pathfinders the way to go now that they are tax free?

Also what is your thought on taking Farsight + Generic HQ to get crisis suits and then dropping Riptides into the elite slots to get both?

Tetras lost their Targetting arrays, so now they are BS3,they lost their shrouded from D-pods so much easier to kill, they also lost their Target Lock, so a unit of 3 have to shoot at the same target. 55pts for 4 BS3 marker lights, where pathfinders get 5 shots for 55. They're also a denial unit. Seems like pathfiners are better.

Coyote81 wrote:
Tetras lost their Targetting arrays, so now they are BS3,they lost their shrouded from D-pods so much easier to kill, they also lost their Target Lock, so a unit of 3 have to shoot at the same target. 55pts for 4 BS3 marker lights, where pathfinders get 5 shots for 55. They're also a denial unit. Seems like pathfiners are better.

Technically they haven't lost the TA since the FW unit entry specifically gives permission to take one, not just a generic "may take vehicle upgrades" note. And when FW does update them who knows, they might see the stupidity of BS 3 vehicles and give them BS 4 by default like the Hammerhead/Sky Ray.

Anyway, if you're going to spend a fast attack slot why not take a marker drone commander? 4-12 BS 5 marker drones + two more on the commander.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 Nafarious wrote:
My two big questions will be.

And should I bring a flier.

No and maybe no.

The fliers are paper thin and doesn't really pack as much of a punch as you would hope for its point cost. If the army you are facing has any kind of anti-air kiss your flier goodbye.

It gets a bit 'meta-gamey', but the real value of Tau flyers will be if the Tau anti-air is so potent that other players stop using flyers. Aside from Tau, most other armies' best defense against air is other air.

 DexKivuli wrote:
It gets a bit 'meta-gamey', but the real value of Tau flyers will be if the Tau anti-air is so potent that other players stop using flyers. Aside from Tau, most other armies' best defense against air is other air.

IMO, not really. Even without any AA at all the Tau flyers are pretty disappointing, and I doubt Tau AA is going to be so overwhelming that flyers and AA will go away entirely. For example, with such weak armor even a token quad gun is a real threat to a Tau flyer, and quad guns are way too useful to go away just because there aren't many flyers to shoot at.

 DexKivuli wrote:

It gets a bit 'meta-gamey', but the real value of Tau flyers will be if the Tau anti-air is so potent that other players stop using flyers. Aside from Tau, most other armies' best defense against air is other air.

But who's air will win in a fight? One thing I do not like about fliers is if your flier comes on first your enemies flying is probably going to kill it. So unless your flier is something incredible like a hell drake for example then it is not really worth it to have just 1 flier. You either want to black their anti-air or over load it.

Anyone else notice that Kroot have sniper rifles?

 chrisrawr wrote:
Anyone else notice that Kroot have sniper rifles?

Only those who followed the month long 145+ page codex rumour thread
i.e. EVERYONE

 Krellnus wrote:

 chrisrawr wrote:
Anyone else notice that Kroot have sniper rifles?

Only those who followed the month long 145+ page codex rumour thread
i.e. EVERYONE

:c I hadn't been. Still, wat?

Well there had to be a reason to make people buy Kroot, right?

 n0t_u wrote:
Well there had to be a reason to make people buy Kroot, right?

Or not. TBH the sniper Kroot are pretty useless, you're already probably taking sniper drones (for the BS 5 markerlights) and Kroot are just too fragile to be proper scoring units.

I still think the jury is way out on the Flyers. People dog the DA flyers as well but I've seen a Dark Talon far exceed a Hell Drakes damage output over the course of a game. I think with the right synergistic combinations the new Tau fliers could shine as well.

 Peregrine wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
Well there had to be a reason to make people buy Kroot, right?

Or not. TBH the sniper Kroot are pretty useless, you're already probably taking sniper drones (for the BS 5 markerlights) and Kroot are just too fragile to be proper scoring units.

You're assuming everyone has infallible tactics and won't be drawn to it by the "oh cool" or new and shiny factor. They suck, but will get a bunch to buy some Kroot anyway.

Sniper Kroot don't compete for Heavy Support slots, but you're right that Sniper Drone Teams make better sniper squads overall. BS5 Rapid Fire snipers, with twice the range, are always going to be much better than BS3 Heavy snipers. Point for point, the SDT will put out more wounds per turn at all ranges than an equivalent amount of Kroot, unless you're not taking the max number of spotters.

I'd rather use my HS slots for 60" AP3 pieplates though.

I think Kroot snipers have potential as anti-monstrous creature suicide squads. Infiltrate them up close to some big Tyranids and just strip the wounds off. They probably won't last long afterwards, but it should be a fair points exchange. That and I hate my mates tervigons...

I think using Sdt is going to depend on how much fusion you have in your elite/fa slots.

As for the fireblade ethereal stacking it seems a bit pointless, you could just buy a second firewarrior squad instead to get the same amount of firepower with a lot more wounds and mobility.

The ethereal boosts are nice but our ability to take objectives is still questionable, for an army which relies so heavily on secondary objectives putting another vp on the table is extremely risky.

The more I look at this, the more I think the new codex has got the same critical weakness as the previous one; our troops are OK. But nothing more. As a consequence we are always going to by trying to cram as much as possible into other slots and take fairly minimal troop slots. This can lead to fairly crippling compromises because of slot saturation.

Other armies get round this by either having good troops that you don't mind using as the core of your army, or by having a mechanism to selectively move units into the troop slots and free up space elsewhere.

 Jadenim wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I think the new codex has got the same critical weakness as the previous one; our troops are OK. But nothing more. As a consequence we are always going to by trying to cram as much as possible into other slots and take fairly minimal troop slots. This can lead to fairly crippling compromises because of slot saturation.

Other armies get round this by either having good troops that you don't mind using as the core of your army, or by having a mechanism to selectively move units into the troop slots and free up space elsewhere.

Fire Warriors are slightly better now, but you're right, overall it didn't change much. Devilfish is worse than before, and I see almost no point including them.

Photon Grenades are somewhat questionable "upgrade". Most Tau veterans didn't take them, because they wanted Fire Warriors to break in combat immediately, so they could wipe out assaulting unit in the next turn with concentrated firepower. As I see it, Photon grenades are good only if there is a counter-assault unit which can come in next turn and save Fire Warriors useless asses, but since Kroot were nerfed, Tau no longer have such unit!

It's stuff like this which makes you want to question whether Vetock has ever even played Tau.

valace2 wrote:
Am still processing what I have read, dunno if anyone had mentioned that Skyfire would be available to regular Crisis teams as well as Riptides and Broadsides but the Velocity Tracker is open to all three slots.

You could turn a Crisis team into a dedicated anti air unit by giving them both a Velocity Tracker and an Early Warning Override which gives them interceptor as well as skyfire. Only problem is that they don't have a weapon that can compare to the Rail gun the broadsides get or to the 12 shots at Str7 a Missileside squad can put out. Broadsides can't get interceptor though, it kind of sucks they got the short end of the stick when it comes to support systems.

If you go full missles it is 6 or 8 twinlink per broadside. Don't recall off hand if both sets are heavy missiles. so a sqaud will put out 18-24 shots. Not surprised they got the shaft on interceptor.


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 Jadenim wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I think the new codex has got the same critical weakness as the previous one; our troops are OK. But nothing more. As a consequence we are always going to by trying to cram as much as possible into other slots and take fairly minimal troop slots. This can lead to fairly crippling compromises because of slot saturation.

Other armies get round this by either having good troops that you don't mind using as the core of your army, or by having a mechanism to selectively move units into the troop slots and free up space elsewhere.

I think the idea was to wither push Tau to 2000pt games or make them the "super" ally choice. Just look at what you can stack in the ally slots

hq: Fire blade
Elite: Riptide
Troop: 12 fire warrior + pulse drone
Fast: Razorshark
Hvy: 3 broadside of choice

That makes a nasty gunline anchor especially for eldar that is between 6 and 700 points. Drop the flyer, which is going to be a very good dog fighter thanks to the tail turret, and you are down to just over 500 points.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Neorealist wrote:
perhaps. And when you don't play against heldrakes, do you really want your entire force loaded up on skyfire that now snapfires against most of the opposing force? At best that is essentially 10 points more than they should be for no real force multiplying benefit (presuming interceptor 'and' skyfire) unless your opponent is taking a lot of fliers and at worst your broadsides will sit there twiddling their thumbs and taking ineffectual potshots while your opponents mostly land-based units rofl-stomp their way through your lines.

it definately pays to be prepared which is why i said you probably want one or two AA options, but going full-'skyfire' is probably going to bad for your overall win percentage.

You miss read the vetro tracking rule, it is optional at the start of the turn. So unless you are facing flyers you can go full BS on ground targets.

[qoute]

Technically they haven't lost the TA since the FW unit entry specifically gives permission to take one, not just a generic "may take vehicle upgrades" note.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3130063a_Tau_Empire_v1.0_APRIL13.pdf

Only Broadsides may take Missile Drones. Good job Games Workshop.

Actually a good thing. Now tau won't be blamed for missile spam cheese.

In regards to anti air, I know I am going to be running 2 missile pod teams with skyfire and interceptor, its pricey but I would much rather pay that than have a heldrake fly on board and cook an entire unit of suits/fire warriors. I have constantly considered the two and while broadsides are more powerful that one turn of shooting from a flyer could cripple your army and I do not want to take that chance. I feel that tau are going to be a tad bit better at standard tank popping than before, we just have so many freaking str 7 shots that we can glance everything to death. And for land raiders we can just pull out longstrike or meltas.

OH that FAQ sucks all ready. There goes the hordes of str 7 shots

Darkstrider+pathfinders with special drones is almost unassaultable, and makes the railrifles instakill marines.

Glad they pointed it out before everyone went all missile drone happy for their crisis suits.

Good on them, definately makes it easier to slot them in somewhere.

Havok couldn't the marines just shoot the finders and kill them as they get no armor save against ap 5?
Also I got a tournament in a week and am hoping to face off against some flyer heavy armies, its gonna be fun blowing them up left and right

khuffy wrote:
Havok couldn't the marines just shoot the finders and kill them as they get no armor save against ap 5?

Place in cover. Problem solved.

Can't argue with that, And Jadenim has it spot on for our codex, We really still have sucky troop choices (those kroot snipers are nice, but still just not good enough), I for one am going to just take two troops and camp them on my side while the elites and heavy support go out to do the mans work.

What do you guys think about the emp grenades? they seem like they could be useful if in a tight spot with fire warriors.

This is the unit I want to run...

Commander w/ Command and Control Node, Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite, and Drone Controller 128pts

3x Broadsides w/ SMS and High Yield Missile Pods, Early Warning Override, and 2x Missile Drones each 282 points

This squad can pump out 36 missiles all of which ignore cover and are twin linked, 12 are at BS5 and the rest are at BS3. An oh yea 12 of the Str7 and the 12 Str5 shots have interceptor so most flyers are going to be SOL because thanks to the commander no jink save.

Who needs markerlights for this squad? Add in a 12 man firewarrior squad and it is one amazing allied detachment.

You could even jazz it up a bit, the commander could take the Iridium armour and even a weapon just for fun. Then turn around and stick the whole mess up on a Skyshield Landing Pad for a better view and a nice 4+ invuln across the board.

 Peregrine wrote:
Step 1: Spam markerlights. This is not Codex:Tau, it's Codex:Markerlights. With markerlights your units are awesome. Without them you're a shooting-only army that is limited to BS 2-3. You're probably going to need to spend 25-50% or more of your points on markerlights.

Step 2: Spam missile drones. Since you have tons of markerlights they're cheap BS 5 "autocannons". Every unit in your army should have at least a pair, and if you can possibly take more than two drones per unit you should do so without question.

Enjoy your new codex.

When I read some reviews on how the markerlight system works I was really impressed. Synergistic rules like this are what defines a faction in game terms and I am really happy they did something like this. The fact that other rules then lend themselves to the buffs from markerlights (like supporting fire) actually make Tau a really unique army imo.

TBH I've thought the Tau were the most boring and pointless faction since their initial release, now I think they're one of the most interesting Xeno factions, on par with Orks for actual fun and playability.

Another thing I really like is heavy access to skyfire. This will probably change the meta across the board as players can't rely on entirely flyer based armies to win by dint of their resilience alone.

I really don't think the markerlights are so much synergy as they are a crutch. You absolutely need to take markerlights or be stuck with BS3. That's why I'm planning on bringing a cheap HQ with probably a few missile suits teaming up with marker drone squads, and probably throw on the iridium armor and target locks. I get a unit of tough missile suits to pelt targets while lighting up another unit with markers. This will give my plasma/fusion suits buffs to ignore armor/cover and shoot at BS5.

Hammerhead- I'm thinking Longstrike in a hammerhead using submunitions will be funny against Guard, but I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of the tank right now.

SDT- I don't think I'm a big fan of the sniper drone teams. Maybe in a Double FOC, but not below 2k.

Missile Drones- I'm honestly bothered that we can't take BS2 missile drones now. They could have made them BS2, unaffected by markers and drone controllers and I would still be fine. It would atleast give FW some extra firepower.

Ethereal- the only reason I would bring these would be for the ability to run and snap fire. Used right, these could jump from cover to cover and get to do some damage as well.

So, is Mech Tau now dead?

On the face of things it kinda looks that way... our transports didn't get any cheaper, the DPod is more expensive and less effective. And, of course, without the ability to fire as a fast vehicle, you don't have the ability to zoom around the board with impunity anymore throwing scads of dice around with wild abandon. Not to mention no Target Locks or Targeting Arrays.

On the other hand... 10pts gets you twin-linked SMS, and our BC get an extra shot. Even a stock Fish is throwing 3 more shots per turn around. Point Defense Systems seem an interesting option, as it would allow you to support your dismounted FWs... or allow you to Overwatch those crunchy melee types who like to wreck your ride with grenades or scads of melee attacks.

And of course, there's the new and improved FISH OF FURY. Put a stock Ethereal in a Fish along with 11 FWs (or 9 + 2 Gun Drones, your choice). Choose Storm of Fire. Unleash 33 pulse shots to the face, plus another 8 from the Fish, for a total of 41. That's 12 more shots than the old 4th/5th edition version. Since the Ethereal only needs to be within 12" (or more accurately, the 'Fish he's in...), you can easily dump multiple squads out to jackhammer the snot out of your units of choice. Markerlight support to taste, of course.

I also think that EMP grenades are going to be one of those subtle changes that really change things for folks who choose to use them. It neatly solves the AV13/14 problem, giving us the ability to strip hullpoints as needed. Use the 'Fish to block those nasty nasty Hurricane Bolters, and go to town. They're even worth throwing at DakkaDreads in a lot of cases, assuming you've got a large enough squad.

I also feel that a mech heavy list with plenty of SMS is currently underrated, given the current prevalence of cover save mechanics as a way to preserve cheap objective holders. 30" range plus 6" move, TL, no need for LOS, ignores cover, and is S5... easy way to remove Scout Teams, IG command teams, etc etc etc. If it's a small squad in an important location that depends on cover to live, it's gonna die in short order.

Hammerheads... I think that Ion Cannons, SMS, and a Darksun Filter are pretty much the default configuration these days. Which is nice, because that's how all of mine are modeled. That 60" AP3 pieplate is going to cause some serious difficulty for a lot of armies out there, especially with the ability to ML a target and ignore cover saves. Easily the end of Aegishammer as we know it, IMO.

Oh, lastly... the Skyray. I know a lot of folks hate it, and it's not my favorite, but I think there's some value here that a lot of folks may be missing. First, it's got Skyfire Markerlights... which means you can use it to mark a flyer, then launch seekers from another vehicle at the back end of said flyer. Oh, and if it doesn't move, it can toss 6 seekers (plus 2 more if it buys them), plus SMS shots, at a flyer of choice... likely at BS5, due to it's networked markerlights. Probably not the ultimate counter to Helldrakes, sure, but would put the hurt on a whole lot of other things. Like FMCs, for example.

I'm a bit glad broadsides can only take missile drones, it just makes more sense and the spam from it would have heavily changed the meta game. Secondly is it still an option to give the xv8 suits an upgrade to battlesuits like it was in the last codex. If so you could still get around this.

valace2 wrote:
Am still processing what I have read, dunno if anyone had mentioned that Skyfire would be available to regular Crisis teams as well as Riptides and Broadsides but the Velocity Tracker is open to all three slots.

You could turn a Crisis team into a dedicated anti air unit by giving them both a Velocity Tracker and an Early Warning Override which gives them interceptor as well as skyfire. Only problem is that they don't have a weapon that can compare to the Rail gun the broadsides get or to the 12 shots at Str7 a Missileside squad can put out. Broadsides can't get interceptor though, it kind of sucks they got the short end of the stick when it comes to support systems.

Except....broadsides can totally take Interceptor, which is on the Early Warning Override. They just can't take both skyfire AND interceptor. But then again you don't really need to. Broadside units are putting out 12 TL Str 7 shots around, If you take missile drones then that number gets upped to 24 shots. I mean on average you're going to get at least a couple glances on a flyer as soon as it enters the board with that. And you can still use that to pop regular vehicles. And if you take the missile drones then the unit doesn't become completely useless once an intercept happens.

 Nafarious wrote:
I'm a bit glad broadsides can only take missile drones, it just makes more sense and the spam from it would have heavily changed the meta game. Secondly is it still an option to give the xv8 suits an upgrade to battlesuits like it was in the last codex. If so you could still get around this.

I think it also makes all the Ion weapons a little more effective as you can't outclass them with missile drones. Too bad you can't take Ion Rifles outside of pathfinder squads.

hq: Fire blade
Elite: Riptide
Troop: 12 fire warrior + pulse drone
Fast: Razorshark
Hvy: 3 broadside of choice

This looks like a nice ally force.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I really don't think the markerlights are so much synergy as they are a crutch. You absolutely need to take markerlights or be stuck with BS3. That's why I'm planning on bringing a cheap HQ with probably a few missile suits teaming up with marker drone squads, and probably throw on the iridium armor and target locks. I get a unit of tough missile suits to pelt targets while lighting up another unit with markers. This will give my plasma/fusion suits buffs to ignore armor/cover and shoot at BS5.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't markerlights come stock with most of the crisis suits and other popular units? I will admit I don't know a lot about Tau, or about the new dex, but seems you get them no matter what, so may as well use them. They seem to work similarly to IG orders in that sense.

 More Dakka wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I really don't think the markerlights are so much synergy as they are a crutch. You absolutely need to take markerlights or be stuck with BS3. That's why I'm planning on bringing a cheap HQ with probably a few missile suits teaming up with marker drone squads, and probably throw on the iridium armor and target locks. I get a unit of tough missile suits to pelt targets while lighting up another unit with markers. This will give my plasma/fusion suits buffs to ignore armor/cover and shoot at BS5.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't markerlights come stock with most of the crisis suits and other popular units? I will admit I don't know a lot about Tau, or about the new dex, but seems you get them no matter what, so may as well use them. They seem to work similarly to IG orders in that sense.

Not at all, and don't worry because it's a silly system that only Tau players are familiar with. Markerlights are a Heavy 1 weapon. So Drones are the only unit that can move and fire them. Other units that can get them are Stealth teams, with only 1 markerlight, fireblades, and pathfinders. I don't have the new dex yet, so I may have missed a few. Basically getting drones with an HQ gives you multiple mobile BS5 markerlights. The best option in my book.

Oh ok, so it's still kinda like the old dex where you play either a markerlight army or a mobile army, except now the mobile option isn't there anymore?

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I really don't think the markerlights are so much synergy as they are a crutch. You absolutely need to take markerlights or be stuck with BS3. That's why I'm planning on bringing a cheap HQ with probably a few missile suits teaming up with marker drone squads, and probably throw on the iridium armor and target locks. I get a unit of tough missile suits to pelt targets while lighting up another unit with markers. This will give my plasma/fusion suits buffs to ignore armor/cover and shoot at BS5.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't markerlights come stock with most of the crisis suits and other popular units? I will admit I don't know a lot about Tau, or about the new dex, but seems you get them no matter what, so may as well use them. They seem to work similarly to IG orders in that sense.

Not at all, and don't worry because it's a silly system that only Tau players are familiar with. Markerlights are a Heavy 1 weapon. So Drones are the only unit that can move and fire them. Other units that can get them are Stealth teams, with only 1 markerlight, fireblades, and pathfinders. I don't have the new dex yet, so I may have missed a few. Basically getting drones with an HQ gives you multiple mobile BS5 markerlights. The best option in my book.

Fire Warrior teams can get them too.

Well in the old codex most armies ran mobile suits with twin-linked weapons to avoid the drawbacks on markerlights (Mostly being on expensive and fragile units with BS3 and couldn't move and shoot).

Forgeworld made the Tetra which was mobile, tough, cheap, and accurate. This made armies a bit more diverse, but still I think most armies stuck to mobile missile and broadside heavy lists. Vehicles were not often used, just because Broadsides are better.

This time around markerdrones are available on cheap drone squads. Suits are just as mobile and have better weapon options now thanks to fusion blasters with 18" range.

Vehicles aren't any better. Burst cannons are twin-linked 4 shots on vehicles you're probably going to use markerlights to boost....so the old 6 shot burst cannons were probably better. Now they aren't able to move as fast and too large to enjoy the terrain ignoring effect of being a skimmer. Add in that they are too large to easily hide and you're looking at a unit that needs to keep shuffing side to side, limiting it's own shooting just to survive.

Not really, Tau "unchatchable armored cadre" might have gone down, and boradside spam is less efficient, but both markerlight stationary spam and no-light crisis army still works.

But with new drone rules (and cost!) spreading marker drones around now also works, marker drone teams is a new (and interesting) option, warrior hoard can function with new EMP nades, "no marker precision" with twin-linked guns all around still works perfectly well, and some new combos on how to either get better accuracy or get insane number of shots can be done now.

New codex is very, very generous when it comes to playstyle options, there are more viable options then one can take.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the absolute awesomeness of all battle-suits having built in multitrakers. this opens up a support slot, and lets every battlesuit have the option of having a twin linked weapon and an additional weapon. fire-knives and helios just became cheaper and all get a twin linked weapons now. One thing the new codex has opened up is having widely distributed marker drones. Even though drones have gakky bs now, they're way cheaper. You can put a few in each battle suit squad and a few will get through. Also, since drone controller effects all drones in the squad, giving one suit a drone controller (which he has room for now, thanks to free multi tracker) will up all marker drones to bs 3.

Im thinking about using a suit commander as more of a buffing unit than a combat unit, using lots of upgrades like command and control node, puretide, neuroweb jammer and minimal weapons systems and turn some regular suits into some really powerful.

can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

plus its insulting for most armies to have your big bad CC unit punched to death by a crisis suit. My HQ did that to Astorath in 5th edition and my friend now has a vendetta against all tau

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

Onager only works against tanks, iirc.

And on another note: does anyone know how tetras function at this stage? The targeting array and marker beacon specifically.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

plus its insulting for most armies to have your big bad CC unit punched to death by a crisis suit. My HQ did that to Astorath in 5th edition and my friend now has a vendetta against all tau

Don't you love it when that happens?

I'd like to buy you a beer...

Lumipon wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

Onager only works against tanks, iirc.

While the fluff states that it was designed with heavy armour in mind there is nothing in the actual rule that says it only works on vehicles. Kind of silly to think they would only swing this jackhammer at a tank and not at a marines head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

I don't see why not, it says that they make take items from the signature systems, which would imply more than one. Still can take only one of each from the list. Shame for that really can you imagine onager gauntlets for everybody . At only 5 points I will be taking one on my commander for sure.

as far as tactics go, assuming you are going to take a flyer out to play...

Bomber or fighter? I am having a heck of a time deciding, I have had to postpone the assembly of my flyer and move on to the riptide.

I love the quad turret, then again I also love the drones with skyfire and intercept, with the option to make my missile pod TL....though the bomb, while being useful i cant see myself doing a lot on a S5 hit...to anything thats a vehicle or a meq and up...

what would you guys go for...and if you dont go for it, treat this as a hypothetical question.

Hans_Einberg wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
can one commander take more than one of the special 1/army items? I'm thinking the onager gauntlet with the iridium armor would be great on a commander. If you manage to get caught in combat, you can challenge and have one chance to instant kill an opponent. The majority of weapons that will be hitting the commander will go last, meaning the commander can hit firt.

plus its insulting for most armies to have your big bad CC unit punched to death by a crisis suit. My HQ did that to Astorath in 5th edition and my friend now has a vendetta against all tau

Don't you love it when that happens?

I'd like to buy you a beer...

What makes the story worse was that he was tied up in CC for 3 turns and it was a combination of bad hits for him and good shield generator saves from me, also that Astorath had taken no wounds previously....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hans_Einberg wrote:
as far as tactics go, assuming you are going to take a flyer out to play...

Bomber or fighter? I am having a heck of a time deciding, I have had to postpone the assembly of my flyer and move on to the riptide.

I love the quad turret, then again I also love the drones with skyfire and intercept, with the option to make my missile pod TL....though the bomb, while being useful i cant see myself doing a lot on a S5 hit...to anything thats a vehicle or a meq and up...

what would you guys go for...and if you dont go for it, treat this as a hypothetical question.

Both are insanely useful. The fighter has that turret with a 360 degree turn so you dont need to worry about directions at all. The bomber, on the other hand has those amazing drones, with ultra powerful weapons and interceptor. And depending on how they fit into their housing you could even argue how much they can shoot, since the rules simply state that it is a "passenger" and the firing point from where it is mounted, which would technically give you an almost 360 degree view excepting where actual parts of the aircraft block it (which wont be that much)

Hans_Einberg wrote:
as far as tactics go, assuming you are going to take a flyer out to play...

Bomber or fighter? I am having a heck of a time deciding, I have had to postpone the assembly of my flyer and move on to the riptide.

I love the quad turret, then again I also love the drones with skyfire and intercept, with the option to make my missile pod TL....though the bomb, while being useful i cant see myself doing a lot on a S5 hit...to anything thats a vehicle or a meq and up...

what would you guys go for...and if you dont go for it, treat this as a hypothetical question.

The bomber is currently useless. It does not have a bomb to start with, and to make one, it must go on a bombing run, something it can't do because it does not start with one. So when you make your descision factor in the bomber's lack of bombs.

Just wondering, what are you guys going to do for your troops? I am heavily leaning towards the kroots with snipers over the fire warriors.

cryhavok wrote:

Hans_Einberg wrote:
as far as tactics go, assuming you are going to take a flyer out to play...

Bomber or fighter? I am having a heck of a time deciding, I have had to postpone the assembly of my flyer and move on to the riptide.

I love the quad turret, then again I also love the drones with skyfire and intercept, with the option to make my missile pod TL....though the bomb, while being useful i cant see myself doing a lot on a S5 hit...to anything thats a vehicle or a meq and up...

what would you guys go for...and if you dont go for it, treat this as a hypothetical question.

The bomber is currently useless. It does not have a bomb to start with, and to make one, it must go on a bombing run, something it can't do because it does not start with one. So when you make your descision factor in the bomber's lack of bombs.

Thats obviously an oversight, i couldnt see anyone arguing it otherwise that they wouldnt start with a bomb given the way it is worded.

khuffy wrote:
Just wondering, what are you guys going to do for your troops? I am heavily leaning towards the kroots with snipers over the fire warriors.

Either Grey Knight terminators or Deathwing LMAO. Tau are going to make outstanding allies

I am very happy they limited missile drones to just broadsides. That was the single biggest "holy gak" factor when I saw them and found out any suit can take 2 without needing a drone controller, and it only got worse when I saw what a drone controller does. Its just too good. Theyre still pretty nuts, but wont be as prevalent due to that limitation.

Overall Im very happy. I miss the advanced stabilzation systems, but all suits having BSF and Multi trackers more than make up for it. 12 point markerlight drones means you can still go crazy with volume of fire and still have some markerlights.

Im definitely going to have fun with things, and I fully intend on not using skyfire but rather weight of shots to bring down flyers.

I just saw in YMDC that EMP grenades aren't listed in the codex. Is that true?

As for Troops, I'm feeling two larger squads of pulse rifles, a small unit with pulse carbines to advance forward (maybe with a devilfish), and Kroot outflanking with snipers to fill the rest, and maybe 1 Kroot hound a piece just for the Acute senses.

Commander with a Command and Control Node and the Multispectrum Sensor Suite, throw in two marker light drones. Plop him in the unit of your choice and you have a unit that rerolls to hit and ignores cover. Could be devastating with a unit of Broadsides that have the High Yield Missile Pod or whatever it's called. Could be devastating with pretty much any unit you put this guy in.

I like the ability for commanders to be pure force multipliers rather than just another gun platform with slightly better shooting.

I'm thinking the Early Warning Override will be the new BSF. It's something cheap to throw on just to fill space and take up points. It offers a nice benefit, but doesn't hurt or take away if your opponent has no reserves. But like the BSF, when you get night fighting turn 1 (or get a flyer or reserve heavy army) then you can have a field day.

People are getting really excited about taking interceptor, but I honestly think that twin-linking and interceptors will be a nice addition. I will probably bring Skyfire Broadsides, since they can endure some punishment to reliably take down a flyer. Either that or I'll take the missile side with it's twin-linked weapons and interceptor, hoping I get some 6's out of all the shots.

At the very least, it will make an opponent be conservative about how he brings in reserves.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just saw in YMDC that EMP grenades aren't listed in the codex. Is that true?

I don't even HAVE the codex yet and I saw them, both EMP grenades and photon grenades are in a small siebar, with photon saying "see defensive grenades in BRB" and EMP say "see haywire grenades in BRB"

Yea, 2 point haywire grenade upgrade.
F*** broadside nerf, our troops can now drop a landraider if he wanders too close.


On another note, EWO wont be the new BSF for 2 reasons:

1-the ATS is cheaper and also quite nice.
2-suits no longer HAVE to take 3 choices, they can take UP TO 3.

Skyfire too expensive there (20 points each suit), just trust the twin-linked and the fact random markers can improve snapshots. anti-air is where the EWO do shine, just due to possible hail of fire once coming from reserves.

Hehehe here is my first ghetto missileside lol.

honestly it looks better than the official missile side. I can't stand the pose where he is holding out the arm, like he actually needs to aim the missiles.

 BoomWolf wrote:

I don't even HAVE the codex yet and I saw them, both EMP grenades and photon grenades are in a small siebar, with photon saying "see defensive grenades in BRB" and EMP say "see haywire grenades in BRB"

Yea, 2 point haywire grenade upgrade.
F*** broadside nerf, our troops can now drop a landraider if he wanders too close.

I too have been looking at EMP grenades with interest. With this edition's vehicle assault and damage rules being able to slap a tank to death seems possible, even for Fire Warriors - as long as you can get there.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
honestly it looks better than the official missile side. I can't stand the pose where he is holding out the arm, like he actually needs to aim the missiles.

Well the way I look at it, this one squad is equal to several psyfleman dread's. They will make an excellent ally for my knights or my dark angels. Seriously a missileside squad with an attached commander is amazing, it reminds me of Lootaz in a way, only they don't have random shot amounts, are not twin linked, and don't ignore cover.

On 2nd thought they are not much like lootaz except for the fact that when you roll a 3 on that D3 for the lootaz shots. I can't wait to start dropping buckets of missile dice and shredding units.

From what Ive gleamed:

- HYM broadsides are better in every way possible then HRR broadsides

- Missile drones are worth every penny, they are like ork lootas, but cheaper and better armour and guaranteed 2 shots and we all KNOW for a fact how good lootas are.

- Velocity tracker is autotake on broadsides

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

 Ravenous D wrote:
Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

Except they are still just T3 with a single wound...I don't care how good their cover saves are, they are a far cry from "godly".

 Ravenous D wrote:
From what Ive gleamed:

- HYM broadsides are better in every way possible then HRR broadsides

- Missile drones are worth every penny, they are like ork lootas, but cheaper and better armour and guaranteed 2 shots and we all KNOW for a fact how good lootas are.

- Velocity tracker is autotake on broadsides

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

I dunno I like Early Warning Override. You won't be facing flyers every game but there is a good chance you will see Drop Pods or deepstriking Deathwing. So having interceptor IMO is a better way to go.

Kill it before it gets to kill you.

Anyone got any good ideas for Pathfinder squad loadouts? I'm just looking at the book myself but they have a lot of options...I'm particularly wondering which drones would be best for them and whether you think the Shas'ui is worth it. I sort of like the Recon Drone but I can't help thinking I would have liked it more if they'd been Infiltrators. Similarly, I'm thinking of giving them a couple of rail rilfes, but then is it worth replacing the lost Markerlights with Marker Drones (considering they're only BS2 and you can't get a Controller)?

The kind of squad I was considering was:

10 x models
2 x rail rifles


That's pretty much it...you get 8 markerlights and at least 2 rail shots per turn. Maybe add in an ion rifle for trying to wound tougher enemies?

 More Dakka wrote:
Oh ok, so it's still kinda like the old dex where you play either a markerlight army or a mobile army, except now the mobile option isn't there anymore?

Yes.

If you played Mech Tau, and waited for the new book to make it viable again - well, better luck in 7th Edition! See you in 2021! \o_

However, for new Tau players who don't know what they have missed, I expect them to like new book.

Did anyone else notice that the markerlight BS buff isn't restricted to 5 now?

Anyway, i think it's odd how many auto-take upgrades there are. Railgun fist? very cheap so why not. The neuroweb jammer? 2 points... there's no reason not to take. Longstrike? He already replaces almost 20 points of wargear, and is cheap for the rest of the buffs he gives. Then the fact that it is even an option to take burst cannons on hammerheads... when it's a free upgrade to smart missiles.

But I can't help but feel a little betrayed by the new ion weapon rules. I mean, Tau's thing was limiting firepower to keep their troops safe. Now they gave buffs for overcharging that make it a very rare situation indeed that you won't want to risk the "gets hot"

valace2 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
From what Ive gleamed:

- HYM broadsides are better in every way possible then HRR broadsides

- Missile drones are worth every penny, they are like ork lootas, but cheaper and better armour and guaranteed 2 shots and we all KNOW for a fact how good lootas are.

- Velocity tracker is autotake on broadsides

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

I dunno I like Early Warning Override. You won't be facing flyers every game but there is a good chance you will see Drop Pods or deepstriking Deathwing. So having interceptor IMO is a better way to go.

Kill it before it gets to kill you.

Yeah but you only hit on BS1, and cannot fire at anything in your following turn, and you cannot take both systems. I ran the math and odds are you do bugger all against a heldrake, and 4 hits with 4 broadsides firing vs 4 broadsides firing it and killing it on average. Against 1 night sycthe you would only knock off 2 hull points firing with 4 broadsides, where as velocity tracker the odds are 1 dead per 2 broadsides. I'd rather have high odds of guaranteed dead then kinda maybe hurt something and be ineffective the following turn.

Also, the only real problem I have with the codex is how now our vehicles have to stand still.

The skyray can't move and fire both its markerlights at full BS (which i think is silly). And the hammerhead is now on a shorter leash.

 Ravenous D wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
From what Ive gleamed:

- HYM broadsides are better in every way possible then HRR broadsides

- Missile drones are worth every penny, they are like ork lootas, but cheaper and better armour and guaranteed 2 shots and we all KNOW for a fact how good lootas are.

- Velocity tracker is autotake on broadsides

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

I dunno I like Early Warning Override. You won't be facing flyers every game but there is a good chance you will see Drop Pods or deepstriking Deathwing. So having interceptor IMO is a better way to go.

Kill it before it gets to kill you.

Yeah but you only hit on BS1, and cannot fire at anything in your following turn, and you cannot take both systems. I ran the math and odds are you do bugger all against a heldrake, and 4 hits with 4 broadsides firing vs 4 broadsides firing it and killing it on average. Against 1 night sycthe you would only knock off 2 hull points firing with 4 broadsides, where as velocity tracker the odds are 1 dead per 2 broadsides. I'd rather have high odds of guaranteed dead then kinda maybe hurt something and be ineffective the following turn.

And because you waited that heldrake or night scythe has killed off either an entire crisis suit team or fire warrior squad. The night scythe could even cripple the broadsides themselves. With interceptor yes you are at bs 1 but you have 12 TL str 7 and 12 str 5 shots to put into that flyer. The drones are there so you can fire in the next turn. If its coming from reserve normally you will hit with normal bs.

Although I am basing my opinion off of a squad that has an attached commander that can deny jink saves and twin link everything. A vanilla missileside squad with drones might be better off with the tracker.

 Ravenous D wrote:

- Stealth suits are godly, they have infiltrate, stealth, shrouding. Thats 4+ cover in the open and 2+ every where else. Add in the fact that burstcannons are assault 4 and they can ride in transports and you have yourself a party.

- Shadowsun is a great character, nice and cheap and gives serious boosts to stealth suits

Stealth Suits are Jet Pack Infantry which according to page 47 of the BRB makes them Bulky. So no packing them into a Fish.

As for Shadowsun, I would rather take 2 Crisis Suit Body Guards with her or attach her to a unit of 3 Crisis Suits. She would confer upon them her Infiltrate rule as well as her Warlord trait of Ghost Walking to the rest of her unit and Stealth+Shrouded. You would be giving up her auto Look Out Ma'am! save but oh well, the unit has 5 Fusion Blasters and 3 Plasma Rifles and a 2+ Cover save while in anything that grants a save, I can deal with it.

How about attaching a Commander to a unit of Broadsides?

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite

Let me explain, the Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite grants Ignores Cover to the Commander's unit if he did not shoot in the Shooting phase. So, you're free to use Interceptor and shoot with his weapons in the opponent's turn, since he won't be able to fire next turn anyway the Broadside team can benefit from the Sensor Suite. A full unit of Broadsides with Ignores Cover could be very sweet indeed.

Puretide Engram Neurochip gives Tank Hunter to the Commander and "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls failed armour penetration rolls against vehicles". That's right, the entire unit gets Tank Hunters. 3 Broadsides with re-rolls to pen? Yes please! Heavy Railguns are a lot more viable with this set-up.

Add shield drones for improved survivability, or even the Iridium Battlesuit. It's quite a lot of points so it may cost more than it's worth but hey, just an idea.

What Crisis suit loadouts are people looking at these days?

I know that personally, I plan to use mine as gap fillers, taking care of any holes in my army's needs. Yanno, kinda like we've always been doing.

But with built-in multitrackers, I plan to do a lot more trigunning than before.

My new standard loadout looks to be Fusion, Plasma, Flamer. Pick the best two for the job, always has something to contribute. Not too concerned about the 24" max range, since with JSJ and Deep Strike, getting to a target isn't usually an issue. Besides, most things still want to close the gap, more often than not.

Others are of course the ECM / Support 'Vre - Puretide Chip, C2 Node, Drone Controller, Neuroweb Disruptor to taste. Take 2 more Crisis loaded for bear, with drones to taste. Being able to confer twin linked is huge, of course, and the Neuroweb really screws over shooty blobs something fierce.

To me though, the biggest overall factor in Suit loadouts is that there's so little that's unfilled in the rest of the FOC; AP1/2 and Melta is really all that's left or needed in many cases from our Elite and FA slots. And with EMP grenades on our FW, we might not even have to rely on Crisis for the heavy anti-armor role - though I'm seriously considering adding in a Onager Gauntlet in any future army I run.

Just started my tau army today by buying a squad of fw I haven't read the codex fully only a few pages and dakkadakka so I have a very basic understanding of tau I'm thinking so far

Suit commander with drone controller marker drones missile pods

Cadre fire blade

Missile side squad with missile drones

Fw squad with emp grenades in a fish to go tank hunting

Fw squad in fish with cadre

Big squad of stealth suits

 Fezman wrote:
Anyone got any good ideas for Pathfinder squad loadouts? I'm just looking at the book myself but they have a lot of options...I'm particularly wondering which drones would be best for them and whether you think the Shas'ui is worth it. I sort of like the Recon Drone but I can't help thinking I would have liked it more if they'd been Infiltrators. Similarly, I'm thinking of giving them a couple of rail rilfes, but then is it worth replacing the lost Markerlights with Marker Drones (considering they're only BS2 and you can't get a Controller)?

The kind of squad I was considering was:

10 x models
2 x rail rifles


That's pretty much it...you get 8 markerlights and at least 2 rail shots per turn. Maybe add in an ion rifle for trying to wound tougher enemies?

I'm wondering about them as a counterattack unit, with a mix of rail rifles vs ion rifles. A full unit puts out a lot of pain at 15/18". The emps make them dangerous to any armor like dreads. Use their markerlights until something nasty drops in, or use them offensively to blow a unit off an objective with a dfish plus recon drone.

I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

Sorry wrong thread.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
A big thing I'm disappointed with is that their is no rule for them in regards to the fluff of their low/non-existent warp presence. At the very least, all Tau should have Adamantium Will or something...

Heck that would have made sense as a buff from the ethereal if not a army wide usr.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

whats your opinion of Ion rifles for Pathfinders? I might just build some because they look cool, also since i have some old skool Rail rifles

Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 lordofthegophers wrote:
I think a unit of 10 with three rail rifles and nothing else is best. They are far too squishy to spend lots of points on.

T3 and just a 5+ makes me sad, they really should have stealth, it makes sense fluff-wise and everything...

whats your opinion of Ion rifles for Pathfinders? I might just build some because they look cool, also since i have some old skool Rail rifles

I just don't think they have good synergy with the rest of the unit. S7 AP4 is readily available elsewhere in the army, and the overcharge effect is crap, S8 AP4 blast? It's just not useful in very many circumstances. Rail rifles give us some nice options for dealing with MEQ/TEQ from range.

I would rather take all 10 with markerlights than Ion Rifles


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

I'll be running them with Aun'va, 27 shots up to 24"

With the command and control node plus multispectrum, wouldn't it make more sense to use those on a regular shas'vre than on the commander? Why waste that tasty bs5 on support systems that require you to not shoot? Instead, commander with dc, cib /fusion blaster, advanced targeting system, 2 shas'ui with fb/pr (either tl one or take a support system) plus a vre with c&c /msss and another item (hell take a flamer or counterfire) . Marker drones to taste.

Obviously you could go for a longer range version with mps etc., but that's a lot of anti elite firepower right there.

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

Does the spotter need LOS?

My book is in the mail.

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

You have this backwards. The sniper drones themselves are mediocre at best, but the BS 5 markerlights they can take are awesome. You always want max spotters, the drones are just meatshields that happen to contribute a bit of shooting.

bthom37 wrote:
With the command and control node plus multispectrum, wouldn't it make more sense to use those on a regular shas'vre than on the commander? Why waste that tasty bs5 on support systems that require you to not shoot?

You take it on the commander because the commander is an IC. Broadsides and riptides are better than crisis suits, so that's where you want to put your best shooting boost.

Day 1 nerf
Although for 399 points you can get a decent ally list:

12 TL S7 Missiles, 12 TL S5 missiles and 12 S7 missiles.

i keep hearing everyone talk about how crisis suits get multitrackers for free now but I've looked everywhere in the book and I can't find that rule anywhere. can someone point me in the right direction?

dj.kickz wrote:
i keep hearing everyone talk about how crisis suits get multitrackers for free now but I've looked everywhere in the book and I can't find that rule anywhere. can someone point me in the right direction?

It's frustrating where they put it, it's on page 70 in the armour section, they also come standard with blacksun filters

Spotter for the sniper drones has a drone controller, so the drones fire at bs5.

 Peregrine wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

You have this backwards. The sniper drones themselves are mediocre at best, but the BS 5 markerlights they can take are awesome. You always want max spotters, the drones are just meatshields that happen to contribute a bit of shooting.

The Drone Controller transfers the BS5 to the Drones. So you have both a BS5 ML and BS5 drones. Personally I like the BS5 snipers over the markerlight in this case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MechaBeast wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Just re-reading the sniper drone Teams. They got nasty. One marksman in hiding with 9 jsj BS5 sniper shots ad 24" to 48" and 18 at 1"-24" at only 148 points? I am thinking you are going to see more of them on the table in the future.

Does the spotter need LOS?

My book is in the mail.

Nope. The boost is conferred by the drone controller wargear.

Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

Give him 2 ML drones and that's 2 more bs 5 MLs

Wolfnid420 wrote:
Put your fire blade in with a fully kitted out sniper squad to give it split fire with those bs5 ML and sniper rifles. could be useful at times

Splitfire on the FireBlade does not quite work like longfangs. On the model with split fire can select a secondary target and only on leadership check. See BRB pg42.

barnowl wrote:
The Drone Controller transfers the BS5 to the Drones. So you have both a BS5 ML and BS5 drones. Personally I like the BS5 snipers over the markerlight in this case.

The point is that, like all snipers, they're mediocre at best. Wounding on a 4+ is usually worse than a basic pulse rifle, while the lack of AP means that most of the hits that do wound are just going to bounce off armor/cover. Meanwhile those BS 5 markerlights are indirectly causing much more damage by giving you BS 5 crisis suit plasma/melta, cover-ignoring pie plates of death from your riptides, etc. You're always going to want the maximum number of spotters in each unit, but upgrade drones are only worth it if you want more meatshields for the markerlights.

So any reason to even take burst cannons on Fish anymore? Now that SMS and burst cannons are both S5,ap5,TL, 4shot weapons, the SMS has better range and ignores cover. getting 6 shots a round used to make a nice close support option.

 lambsandlions wrote:
Another tactic I was thinking about was crisis commander with iridium armor and stimulant injectors. Plop this in front of your unit to soak up all the fire. If you are being hit by AP1/2 weapons you can look out sir to another unit (crisis suits have 2 wounds so you can distribute wounds before anything dies) You only risk a 1/6 chance that the AP1/2 shot will wound your commander but he has 4 wounds so its not a huge deal and he is t5 so only s10 hit instant kill him. If you are being hit by AP3+ weapons your commander should take it. Between sv2 and feel no pain it will take 27 shots to do 3 wounds. It is risky but allows your team to take a TON of damage before anything dies. If your commander gets to 1 wound you can hide him in the middle of the unit.

Majority toughness rules, in this case, the commander counts as t4 for shooting



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Veskrashen wrote:
So, is Mech Tau now dead?

On the face of things it kinda looks that way... our transports didn't get any cheaper, the DPod is more expensive and less effective. And, of course, without the ability to fire as a fast vehicle, you don't have the ability to zoom around the board with impunity anymore throwing scads of dice around with wild abandon. Not to mention no Target Locks or Targeting Arrays.

On the other hand... 10pts gets you twin-linked SMS, and our BC get an extra shot. Even a stock Fish is throwing 3 more shots per turn around. Point Defense Systems seem an interesting option, as it would allow you to support your dismounted FWs... or allow you to Overwatch those crunchy melee types who like to wreck your ride with grenades or scads of melee attacks.

And of course, there's the new and improved FISH OF FURY. Put a stock Ethereal in a Fish along with 11 FWs (or 9 + 2 Gun Drones, your choice). Choose Storm of Fire. Unleash 33 pulse shots to the face, plus another 8 from the Fish, for a total of 41. That's 12 more shots than the old 4th/5th edition version. Since the Ethereal only needs to be within 12" (or more accurately, the 'Fish he's in...), you can easily dump multiple squads out to jackhammer the snot out of your units of choice. Markerlight support to taste, of course.

I also think that EMP grenades are going to be one of those subtle changes that really change things for folks who choose to use them. It neatly solves the AV13/14 problem, giving us the ability to strip hullpoints as needed. Use the 'Fish to block those nasty nasty Hurricane Bolters, and go to town. They're even worth throwing at DakkaDreads in a lot of cases, assuming you've got a large enough squad.

I also feel that a mech heavy list with plenty of SMS is currently underrated, given the current prevalence of cover save mechanics as a way to preserve cheap objective holders. 30" range plus 6" move, TL, no need for LOS, ignores cover, and is S5... easy way to remove Scout Teams, IG command teams, etc etc etc. If it's a small squad in an important location that depends on cover to live, it's gonna die in short order.

Hammerheads... I think that Ion Cannons, SMS, and a Darksun Filter are pretty much the default configuration these days. Which is nice, because that's how all of mine are modeled. That 60" AP3 pieplate is going to cause some serious difficulty for a lot of armies out there, especially with the ability to ML a target and ignore cover saves. Easily the end of Aegishammer as we know it, IMO.

Oh, lastly... the Skyray. I know a lot of folks hate it, and it's not my favorite, but I think there's some value here that a lot of folks may be missing. First, it's got Skyfire Markerlights... which means you can use it to mark a flyer, then launch seekers from another vehicle at the back end of said flyer. Oh, and if it doesn't move, it can toss 6 seekers (plus 2 more if it buys them), plus SMS shots, at a flyer of choice... likely at BS5, due to it's networked markerlights. Probably not the ultimate counter to Helldrakes, sure, but would put the hurt on a whole lot of other things. Like FMCs, for example.

You're forgetting that fire-warriors dont come with an assault vehicle, and need to hoof it to where they wanna be. The only thing that can't be shot down at least kinda easilly are land-raiders and their ilk.... If something that like gets close enough for you to use EMP grenades, then you've already gotten into a mess of trouble that popping a single heavy support choice wont fix. Hell, you can't even dfish them over there and hope to assault after the fish dies, cause you're losing over half the FW's when it explodes, are potentially pinned, and STILL count as having come out of a non assault vehicle.

It's one point wasted for every fire-warrior.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lordofthegophers wrote:
How about attaching a Commander to a unit of Broadsides?

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite

.

Too many choices on a single suit mate.

Do not ask for pirated materials on Dakka. --Janthkin

My tau are for allied detachments for my orks. I dont have my codex yet but from i can read i think theyre going to stay as an allied detachment.

How well you guy think a Riptide would be allied in, or should i stick to broadside groups?

Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite


why would this be illegal davou? commander can take four weapons/support AND take gear from the special item list. Unless it says somewhere you can't pick two weapons of the same type? I know it said specifically you can't pick the same gear twice in the old codex but i can not see it anywhere in the new one.

I'm not sure if the dual missile pods would be TL or 4 shots. Either or it looks nasty, stick that in a missile broadside squad and rain down tankhunter S7.

Nevermind.

Ion Cannon vs Rail cannon? that overcharge template is pretty tempting, but gets hot on vehicles makes it pretty risky.

No one has noticed how good Shadowsun is yet?

Gives entire unit Stealth and Shrouded, hello Kroot Snipers, Hound pack behind an aegis.

And you can take her 3++ drone, when she dies the drone attaches to the kroot.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Gives entire unit Stealth and Shrouded, hello Kroot Snipers, Hound pack behind an aegis.

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

 Peregrine wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Gives entire unit Stealth and Shrouded, hello Kroot Snipers, Hound pack behind an aegis.

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

I don't think he wants allies...

 Peregrine wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Gives entire unit Stealth and Shrouded, hello Kroot Snipers, Hound pack behind an aegis.

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

Shadowsun and Farsight both have incredible rules. I suspect these are the HQs you'll see most at tournaments with the second HQ slot going to a support focused Crisis Commander if they're the primary detachment.

I read a lot of complaints about the devilfish. I'm a bit confused. I feel like it's pretty damn good if a bit expensive. It's a skimmer and a tank, comes with a free burst cannon. Always getting a cover save, can tank shock to force morale, offer a bit of supporting fire and gives you mobility if you don't roll well for objectives and you absolutely have to get to a forward point. Pretty damn good all things considered. I'd happily run two of them for my basic firewarriors. Spam is obviously out of the question, but it really isn't that bad.

Then again, having started with orks, most every other transport looks good compared to a Trukk.

 Peregrine wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Gives entire unit Stealth and Shrouded, hello Kroot Snipers, Hound pack behind an aegis.

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

A 2++ what now?

 L0rdF1end wrote:
A 2++ what now?

Remember that fluff abomination where Tau and C:SM are battle brothers? Attach Shadowsun to an allied terminator death star and it gains the outflank rule and a 2++ as long as you're smart enough to give them some cover. Suddenly Tau are delivering the assault unit from hell directly to those nice vulnerable scoring units on your opponent's "home" objectives. And of course if you take the appropriate Badab War character as your HQ those terminators are now scoring so once you've wiped out your opponent's scoring units they're stuck with scoring 2++ terminators on their objectives in the exact opposite direction from the rest of your army.

Note that this also works for bikes (bike captain to make them scoring, and a permanent T5/2++ even out in the open) and Wraithguard (T6/2++ sitting on an objective with a divination HQ) if you prefer those options.

Luford wrote:


Commander
- Missile Pod
- Missile Pod
- Skyfire
- Interceptor
- Puretide Engram Neurochip
- Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite


why would this be illegal davou? commander can take four weapons/support AND take gear from the special item list. Unless it says somewhere you can't pick two weapons of the same type? I know it said specifically you can't pick the same gear twice in the old codex but i can not see it anywhere in the new one.

"Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single version and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A twin-linked weapon counts as two choices from this list." (Pg. 141, Codex: Tau Empire [Digital])

So by default, when you select two options it becomes the twin-linked version of that system. I suspect it could be rules-lawyered to say that you can take one TL and then one single (for a total of three) since the rule doesn't explicitly forbid you from taking a third of the same weapon, though I don't believe that's the intention. Probably needs to be FAQed, as much as I hate to say so. Still, the intention of the rule is there - just like the previous codex, you take one and its a single; two, and its a TL version.

Signature Systems do not count towards your hard-point limit, and in the unit entries are explicitly listed outside of the entry that limits how many systems you can take.

E.g.:
"Options:
- May take up to four items from the Ranged Weapons and/or Support Systems lists.
- May take items from the Signature Systems list.
- May take up to two drones from the Drones list." (Pg. 148, Codex: Tau Empire [Digital])

Note that the Signature Items listing is separate from any entry that delineates a hard limit (other than the already set, unique 'one per detachment' limit allotted to Signature Systems).

Still, your commander is legally outfitted, he would just have a TL-Missile Pod plus the Early warning override and Velocity tracker.

As for the original topic, I had written some notes but would rather not get caught up in the rolling debates that continue as the dust still settles from the Codex landing. I am still mulling and theorycrafting at the moment, though I will say already that I'm not buying the doom-and-gloom portents from some. I think the Tau have a good Codex, and I'm very happy with how things turned out. STR 10 Broadside Railguns will be missed, but simply put they would have been far too overpowered with the Support System additions. They were already auto-include as it was - STR 10 AP 1 72 inch Sky-fire or Interceptor fire would have been over the top. I might wish that they had given it Lance, but it still remains a viable unit - just not a solid AV14 counter. Still, we'll see how the power-curve ends up as GW continues to release new Codices.

Some other interesting thoughts - Broadsides can't take Vectored Retro-Thrusters. But a Commander can. Add Drones, attach the Shas'o to the unit; now you have Broadsides with Hit and Run. In fact, with all the benefits a Commander can give a wider variety of units, between Signature Systems and potential equipment options, the "Shield'O" concept has become very powerful and offers quite a bit of synergy and opportunity to any Tau army.

Has anyone done any math-hammer yet on the points efficiency of various avenues to markerlights? Pathfinders seem to be the cheapest, but BS5 has a strong draw too. By comparison, you can get a barebones Commander with Drone Controller and six Marker drones for 165 pts. For the same points cost you can get 15 Pathfinders. ~5 (4.98) markerlight hits (Commander Marker Drone Team) to ~7-8 (7.5) markerlight hits (Pathfinders)- plus, if you don't intend on taking any other Fast Attack slots (Heavy and Elite tend to eat up the points I have in the lists I've worked on so far, and I end up filling the FOC for those choices quickly) you can field the Pathfinders in units of 5, and potentially target three separate units. Which is better? Still considering.

GhostRecon wrote:
So by default, when you select two options it becomes the twin-linked version of that system.

No, the rule is perfectly clear. You have two options:

Take a single weapon counting as one choice for X points.

Take a twin-linked weapon counting as two choices for Y points.

There is nothing preventing you from taking the first option two times if you're willing to spend the extra points (a single twin-linked weapon is MUCH cheaper* than taking two independent weapons).



*Consider the "good" weapons: 20 points for one twin-linked (equivalent of 1.5 guns), 30 points for two separate guns. You pay 50% more points for 33% more firepower unless you're using markerlights to get above BS 3, so there's a strong argument for just taking the cheaper TL gun.

For the same points cost you can get 15 Pathfinders.

Note that this means spending two fast attack slots on markerlights instead of melta Piranhas, Barracudas or XV9s. Can you do it? Yes. Do you want to do it? I'm not convinced.

Also, for markerlights you should consider sniper drones. Sure, the drones themselves are little more than meatshields for the spotters, but for 84 points you get three BS 5 markerlights while only spending a single FOC slot. And IMO heavy support is our least-valuable FOC slot since all we really get is broadsides and you probably don't want three units of them.

 Peregrine wrote:

GhostRecon wrote:
So by default, when you select two options it becomes the twin-linked version of that system.

No, the rule is perfectly clear. You have two options:

Take a single weapon counting as one choice for X points.

Take a twin-linked weapon counting as two choices for Y points.

There is nothing preventing you from taking the first option two times if you're willing to spend the extra points (a single twin-linked weapon is MUCH cheaper* than taking two independent weapons).



*Consider the "good" weapons: 20 points for one twin-linked (equivalent of 1.5 guns), 30 points for two separate guns. You pay 50% more points for 33% more firepower unless you're using markerlights to get above BS 3, so there's a strong argument for just taking the cheaper TL gun.

For the same points cost you can get 15 Pathfinders.

Note that this means spending two fast attack slots on markerlights instead of melta Piranhas, Barracudas or XV9s. Can you do it? Yes. Do you want to do it? I'm not convinced.

Also, for markerlights you should consider sniper drones. Sure, the drones themselves are little more than meatshields for the spotters, but for 84 points you get three BS 5 markerlights while only spending a single FOC slot. And IMO heavy support is our least-valuable FOC slot since all we really get is broadsides and you probably don't want three units of them.

Ah, re-reading the entry for the Ranged Weapons I'd have to say that seems more right. So you can take multiples of the single-weapon version - nice!

Also, I find myself leaning more towards Hammerheads at the moment than Broadsides, though admittedly I'm still working on list-theory. Right now looking at one with Longstrike and one backing him up. BS4 out of the box is nice, and the railgun is a good, versatile weapon. Pair that with a DP and Sensor Spines and you can park it in the middle of a ruin if you wanted, and anytime it moves and any cover it enters (without worrying about dangerous terrain) only increases its survivability. AV 13 helps. High Yield Missile Pods are interesting, but I'm looking at keeping the "Fireknife" configuration on my suits, so I should have plenty of STR 7 saturation as it is. The core of my army at the moment is looking like it'll be a Riptide (EWO and VT), 2 three-suit Crisis Teams (Fireknife Configuration), and two Hammerheads (one with Longstrike).

I'm considering Sniper Drone Teams, though my problem with them is that you can only get three markerlights at maximum (though BS5 and having stealth are strong pluses. If only they had given Pathfinders stealth...). Will probably have to play-test.

Who else thinks that using Shadowsun to infiltrate in pathfinders and then jumping onto a deepstriking squad of fusion suits sounds like a pretty awesome idea?

Shadowsun in general seems to have a ton of trick possibilities. With a main of Eldar, I'm considering using her as an ally to infiltrate either Wraithguard or D-cannons.

Infiltrate, T6 (wraithguard) or T7 (artillery), Stealth, Shrouded, 0-2 20pt 3++ drones, and some nasty short range guns.

Take a squad of Pathfinders with Fireblade Cadre and a Pulse Accel Drone and put the unit in a Bastion with the windows pointed at the enemy. 12 shots plus the Heavy Bolter at BS5 tucked away in the "safety" of the AV14 building.

 Peregrine wrote:

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

Because then you have Space Marines allying with filthy xenos, you heretic!

 Crimson wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Isn't that thinking a bit small? Why waste a bonus on Kroot (which can go to ground behind the aegis and lose nothing, or just buy more bodies with Shadowsun's points) when you can give that 2++ to an outflanking terminator death star?

Because then you have Space Marines allying with filthy xenos, you heretic!

Im afraid whatever logic went into that decision is lost on me, im just assuming they wanted to make it so space marines could take some shooty, because if the logical conclusion of IG had been chosen it would precision strikes and artillery barrages all day

Wow the Shadowsun abuse is fully underway.....Its going to make DE/Eldar Beast packs look fluffy.

Shadowsun cannot infiltrate with a non infiltrate unit -- they are deployed at different times and thus the non infiltrate unit must deploy with the rest of the army, or hang out in reserves.

She can, however, outflank along with any unit she drags along with her.

I am so buying Shadowsun.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Shadowsun cannot infiltrate with a non infiltrate unit -- they are deployed at different times and thus the non infiltrate unit must deploy with the rest of the army, or hang out in reserves.

It's written the opposite way.

An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Quark wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Shadowsun cannot infiltrate with a non infiltrate unit -- they are deployed at different times and thus the non infiltrate unit must deploy with the rest of the army, or hang out in reserves.

It's written the opposite way.

An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

Right, because it's not possible to attach her to none infiltrators unless she forfeits her infiltration because that squad has to deploy before her.

Unless you reserve it. Join shadowsun to unit X in reserve, X gets outflank.

 Blaggard wrote:
Unless you reserve it. Join shadowsun to unit X in reserve, X gets outflank.

Right, my point was in regards to infiltration though.

Right, yeah. The unit gets the infiltrate rule only when she's a part of it and it deploys first. As you stated.

Does shadowsun sound like a good combination with marker drones?

Also, can you use markerlights to make snap shots increase in BS? In that case, the hammerhead isn't dead!!!! Woot! Woot!

So, unless both the character and the unit have infiltrate, they can't deploy together (unless the one with infiltrate is infiltrating inside your deployment zone) right?

Also, FoW, you are right, but with only 4 shots on the secondary weapon, there isn't much point on wasting all your markerlight hits


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, you mean being able to move a hammerhead 12" and use 4-5 markerlights to bring up its BS every once in a while. It's possible, but really relies on you not needing your markerlights for other things like improving other squads BS... or ignoring cover.

Or seeker missiles

Shadowsun does not have a drone controller in her wargear list - she can join some marker drones to give them stealth/shrouded, but they'll shoot at bs2 only.

Regarding Shadowsun w/Termies why outflank.

Shrike + Shadowsun + 10 TH/SS Termies = Infiltrating, fleet termies with a 2++ cover save. Detach Shadowsun once the Termies are preparing to charge to take advantage of fleet

 Hulksmash wrote:
Regarding Shadowsun w/Termies why outflank.

Shrike + Shadowsun + 10 TH/SS Termies = Infiltrating, fleet termies with a 2++ cover save. Detach Shadowsun once the Termies are preparing to charge to take advantage of fleet

Or, add a Ninja'O - now those Terminators have Hit and Run too. Pull back in the enemy's assault phase. Charge again - more attacks! Or use the Hit and Run move to boost to something you actually wanted to hurt, and bash its face in. Tarpit? What tarpit?

Ninja'O can't infiltrate with the unit since it doesn't have infiltrate as a special rule. That's the reason for Shrike, so you can deploy the terminators 18" from your opponent.

That's right, derp. Still, TH/SS Terminators with Hit and Run would be a powerful combo in their own right. Add the Puretide Engram Neurochip for extra fun.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Regarding Shadowsun w/Termies why outflank.

1) So I can take the Badab War character that makes terminators scoring.

2) So I can arrive behind my opponent. Suddenly moving everything forward to engage the Tau is a lot less appealing and my opponent has to throw a lot more resources into holding their "home" objectives.

1) Forgeworld isn't commonly used and so this shouldn't be something regularly considered by the masses.

2) To dice dependent. Your missing 1 turn at best, have a 1/3 chance of arriving on the wrong side of the table, and are slow.

Or, infiltrate after your opponent deploys (netting you excellent field advantage), be fleet on turn one to get into position. And then use them as a screen to put immediate pressure on your opponent, keeping your firing line 100% active and mostly safe.

Can I just ask, why don't people like the Sky Ray?

It's cheap, has Skyfire, and two Markerlights hitting on 3+

Even when the missiles are gone, two markerlights with good BS is pretty handy.

Having Skyfire markerlights means it can improve the BS of something else shooting at the flyer.

Here's an example, Sky Ray shoots its markerlights at a flyer, both hit. Riptide with Skyfire and Heavy Burst Cannon expends those markerlights, making it BS5.

Nova charge the Burst Cannon and you have 12 S6 shots, hitting on 2+ and rending on 6s. That's a lot of dakka.

Just trying to find a use for it since I like the model, and it's a cheap heavy support.

A lot of people are knocking the Sky Ray. I'm not a fan, but mathematically, it's still an OK choice.

48 points worth of seeker missiles on it, so do the 2 markerlights justify the cost? 77 points for the secondary weapon and skyfire markerlights. Discounting the secondary weapons:

2 markerlight drones: 24pts

2 velocity trackers: 40pts

You're paying 13 points for a skyfire secondary weapon, and moving the platform limits your shooting. It's fairly cost efficient, but being immobile to fire at full effect is brutal.

I think the value of the Skyray is that it can launch all it's missiles in one go. You can self-launch seekers now, so it can hit something with it's networked markerlights to up it's BS, then drop the whole rack on something. This would pretty reliably destroy a similarly costed vehicle as the Skyray while also netting you First Blood. Then there's still a pair of markerlights and a decent support system on a pretty tough chassis that scores during some missions.

yeah i bought a skyray box before the price went up, before i got my dex, havent done anything with it and im not sure if im going to.....may sell it....probably will make a skyray with if not though. is it possible to magnetize the top part to make it interchangeable? has anyone done that?

Skyray has an entirely different turret, so you can swap it out for regular Hammerhead turrets with no need to magnetize. Magnetizing the two HH turret options is simple enough.

Hmm 6 pages and no mention of outflanking krootoxs with a mob of krook
It appears now they are able to infiltrate outflank and take advantage of marker lights so may be worth it as some cheep back field scoring units / rear armor anti tank.

I'll do you one better - outflanking Kroot/krootox with a positional relay 6" from the enemy board edge. 6 s7 rear armor shots woo!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'll do you one better - outflanking Kroot/krootox with a positional relay 6" from the enemy board edge. 6 s7 rear armor shots woo!

Think it is viable? i mean it something like 140 for bare minimum squad with max krootox, should be relatively strong.

also thinking about using stealth teams for homing bacons and pos relay, should be relevantly flexible if infiltrating.

Kroot are really good, man those infiltrating krootox hurt!

Here's my latest battle report against Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

I'm looking to take some Tau allies in my Grey Knights army, strange team up I know but they'd be a great help with heavy armour and flyers which are really a problem for GK. I've invested in a pair of missile broadsides with drones for anti-air but I'd like to discuss the Crisis suit team loadouts. I'm currently thinking of taking a unit of 3 Crisis Battlesuits with Twin Linked Fusion Blaster and Missile Pod to deal with vehicles and maybe 2+ units, it will also have 3 or 4 Drones attached thou I'm unsure whether to go with shield or gun drones?

So what loadouts are thinking of taking on your crisis suit teams and what type of drones would you field with them?

 Mushkilla wrote:
Kroot are really good, man those infiltrating krootox hurt!

Here's my latest battle report against Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

 Mushkilla wrote:
Kroot are really good, man those infiltrating krootox hurt!

Here's my latest battle report against Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

As a tau player this report gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. While I don't think that battle was typical (4 ML hits from 6 bs 2 shots?), it does show the potential we have. Rough luck for you and it makes me want to consider Kroot again...

 Proiteus wrote:
I'm looking to take some Tau allies in my Grey Knights army, strange team up I know but they'd be a great help with heavy armour and flyers which are really a problem for GK. I've invested in a pair of missile broadsides with drones for anti-air but I'd like to discuss the Crisis suit team loadouts. I'm currently thinking of taking a unit of 3 Crisis Battlesuits with Twin Linked Fusion Blaster and Missile Pod to deal with vehicles and maybe 2+ units, it will also have 3 or 4 Drones attached thou I'm unsure whether to go with shield or gun drones?

So what loadouts are thinking of taking on your crisis suit teams and what type of drones would you field with them?

Think good option is to make them super specialized, 3man crisis suit team, 2 of which will have 2 FB TL, and a vre with a PNC and 2 FB for tank hunter, will definitely be needing marker support.
twin linked flamer + flamer on 3 toaster suits for hoards sound like fun too.

 BlueRift wrote:
As a tau player this report gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. While I don't think that battle was typical (4 ML hits from 6 bs 2 shots?), it does show the potential we have. Rough luck for you and it makes me want to consider Kroot again...

Agreed that was some good luck. But the Kroot, that's where the real potential is. They let Tau control the midfield like never before, especially with some stealth team/crisis support, and now that they can infiltrate with three krootox and benefit from markerlights. They really outclass fire warriors in my opinion.

Cheap infiltrating troops that can put pressure on your opponents objective, get a 4+ cover save in forests (2+ when they go to ground), have three move shoot auto cannons, the choice between regular and sniper ammo depending on the situation (making them rend and wound on 4+ when they need too), and best of all they benefit from marker lights. They can put a tone of early pressure on and those six S7 shots will always be hitting what they want to hit thanks to infiltrate and being able to move and shoot. With the 2+ cover save when going to ground it will be hard to shift them off objectives.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Can I just ask, why don't people like the Sky Ray?

Mostly because it takes up a heavy support slot. Broadsides are your best AA unit, Hammerheads are your only source of railguns, and "sniper" drone squads are your best source of BS 5 markerlights.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Kroot are really good, man those infiltrating krootox hurt!

Here's my latest battle report against Tau if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR21: The Black Buzzards VS New Tau - 1500pts

 Proiteus wrote:
I'm looking to take some Tau allies in my Grey Knights army, strange team up I know but they'd be a great help with heavy armour and flyers which are really a problem for GK. I've invested in a pair of missile broadsides with drones for anti-air but I'd like to discuss the Crisis suit team loadouts. I'm currently thinking of taking a unit of 3 Crisis Battlesuits with Twin Linked Fusion Blaster and Missile Pod to deal with vehicles and maybe 2+ units, it will also have 3 or 4 Drones attached thou I'm unsure whether to go with shield or gun drones?

So what loadouts are thinking of taking on your crisis suit teams and what type of drones would you field with them?

I would go with the shield drones, because of their invuln. Imagine a Doom Scythe bearing down on your suits a few 4+ invulns would help a lot.

Yea it dawned on my brother and I the other day at how great the krootox is now with the new rapid fire rules that squad basically is getting 3 infiltrating moving auto canons at 24". I think outflanking these guys is much more viable now to get side armor shots.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea it dawned on my brother and I the other day at how great the krootox is now with the new rapid fire rules that squad basically is getting 3 infiltrating moving auto canons at 24". I think outflanking these guys is much more viable now to get side armor shots.

Except you still have the same problem as in the old codex (where krootox were the same): if you shoot at things that ACs are good against you waste the rest of the squad, if you shoot at things the rest of the squad is good against you waste the ACs. No matter what you do with the unit you're wasting points.

 Peregrine wrote:
Except you still have the same problem as in the old codex (where krootox were the same): if you shoot at things that ACs are good against you waste the rest of the squad, if you shoot at things the rest of the squad is good against you waste the ACs. No matter what you do with the unit you're wasting points.

Seriously? I thought 60pts for 10 ablative wounds for your infiltrating move shoot stealth( in forest) autocannons was a bargain! And shooting S7 guns at infantry is not a waste as far as I'm concerned.

I guess running plasma guns, or melta guns in squads of marines is a waste of points!

140 points for 3 mobile, markerlightable, scoring, infiltrating (or outflanking) autocannons is not a waste, even if I don't fire the associated S4 shots. Those extra bodies are just insurance. I've never played with Krootoxen, as I always liked to infiltrate. I'll have to figure out some models. The Oxen make them a bit stouter in close combat also with the high strength hits. Useful if vehicles get close.

that battlereport looks like the rock to scissors bad luck that sometimes happens in this game. I hate it when i get a game like that where the army i face countered what i brought so perfectly i literally couldnt do anything. Being outplayed is one thing, being countered by default because of a little rock-paper-scissors sucks balls.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea it dawned on my brother and I the other day at how great the krootox is now with the new rapid fire rules that squad basically is getting 3 infiltrating moving auto canons at 24". I think outflanking these guys is much more viable now to get side armor shots.

Except you still have the same problem as in the old codex (where krootox were the same): if you shoot at things that ACs are good against you waste the rest of the squad, if you shoot at things the rest of the squad is good against you waste the ACs. No matter what you do with the unit you're wasting points.

I get where your coming from except those kroot are dirt cheap and are adding 3 AC equivalent shots from an infiltrating or outflanking scoring unit. Its the same reason why auto canon havocs are so great, they add flexible fire support where needed for cheap, are either the best option, not in a vacuum but they will compliment a list very well IMO.

Not to mention they (kroot) are scoring.

Good to see a xenos codex get some love, tau look like they could be a potent army this edition, and that's always good for variety.

 Mushkilla wrote:
I guess running plasma guns, or melta guns in squads of marines is a waste of points!

The difference is that marines (and other imperial armies) have a severe lack of heavy/special weapons, so they depend on upgrade weapons to bring enough. Tau, on the other hand, have various battlesuits to bring much better heavy/special weapons so there's no need to cram in every possible upgrade weapon no matter how inefficient it is.

 Peregrine wrote:

The difference is that marines (and other imperial armies) have a severe lack of heavy/special weapons, so they depend on upgrade weapons to bring enough. Tau, on the other hand, have various battlesuits to bring much better heavy/special weapons so there's no need to cram in every possible upgrade weapon no matter how inefficient it is.

And 125pts for 10 kroot and 3 krootox is inefficient how? Far more flexible than fire warriors. Infiltrate, move through cover and stealth makes them far more versatile and survivable. They will get 4+ cover in ruins, and 4+ cover in forests, can go to ground for 2+ covers saves, you can set them up after your opponent has deployed even when you are going first (so you can always make sure their guns are in range), they put out 10 S4 shots and 6 S7 shots a turn and have a total of 16 wounds! They have to lose a total of 13 wounds before you start losing those S7 shots.You can set them up on a midfield objective and fire away, going to ground when needed. Not to mention they are scoring.

As far as I'm concerned they are far more flexible and useful than fire warriors.

As for fire power, 12 fire warriors on average inflict 4 wounds against T4, 10 kroot and three krootox on average inflict 5 wounds against T4? So please explain to me why are kroot bad again?

 Mushkilla wrote:
And 125pts for 10 kroot and 3 krootox is inefficient how?

Because for the same 125 points you can get better shooting with basic kroot and dual missile pod crisis suits.

It's also important to remember that this book has I believe the most Ignores Cover weapons of any Codex to date. For this reason it is more important than ever to think about your basic armor save as well as the cover save that you can potentially get. Even a 2+ cover does not mean very much when it can be taken away by two 12 point drones. Kroot, with a 6+ base save, are much more vulnerable to this (as well as to the lethal Smart Missiles) than Fire Warriors are with a 4+ base save.

Indeed, in the Tau/Tau mirror match, Kroot are not very useful at all except when equipped with sniper rounds, and when they are equipped with sniper rounds they still don't do very much, since they can quite easily be engaged from outside their 24" range.

New tau vs New tau...lol that would be about as bad as 5th ed Ork vs Ork imo. Complete and utter chaos, basically whoever got to the good spot first wins for the most part.

The note about having the most anti-cover codex is a big feature. A lot of players forget that your own models provide intervening model 5+ cover, so its often hard (especially if you have some numbers on your side) to get clear shots with weapons that pen the armor of your target. So annoying when that random 5+ for intervening models saves an insta-pasting wound

Not to mention....i believe Tau are going to be the race that us Orks dont take bikernobz against. They have PLENTY of AP4 attacks and a couple marker light zaps will take away our cover, leaving us with a 5++ and FNP. Thats nearly the whole flippin army that can do that...that hurts lol. Im the only player at my group that has tau at all so i'll never have that issue though

 Vineheart01 wrote:
New tau vs New tau...lol that would be about as bad as 5th ed Ork vs Ork imo. Complete and utter chaos, basically whoever got to the good spot first wins for the most part.

The note about having the most anti-cover codex is a big feature. A lot of players forget that your own models provide intervening model 5+ cover, so its often hard (especially if you have some numbers on your side) to get clear shots with weapons that pen the armor of your target. So annoying when that random 5+ for intervening models saves an insta-pasting wound

Not to mention....i believe Tau are going to be the race that us Orks dont take bikernobz against. They have PLENTY of AP4 attacks and a couple marker light zaps will take away our cover, leaving us with a 5++ and FNP. Thats nearly the whole flippin army that can do that...that hurts lol.

Im the only player at my group that has tau at all so i'll never have that issue though

lol Right now, you're the only Tau player

I just thought of something, You can up the toughness of stealth teams by adding drones in! So with three stealth suits, shadowsun and 4 drones, you get a t4 stealth blob rather than the t3 one.

Likewise, you can up shadowsun to t4 by attaching her to drones.

I can't help but think a Farsight bomb could be lethal, if expensive.

Give a single bodyguard the CCN, MSSS, PEN, NSJ. Then give as many as you like fusion blasters and plasma rifles.

Give up your shooting with the supporting bodyguard, your 7 plasma rifles and 6 fusion blasters are all twinlinked, ignores cover, presumably BS5 from Markerlights, and able to deepstrike without scattering. Some quick mathammering give 16.2 dead MEQ, regardless of cover. Alternatively, 10 dead TEQ, or 5 Dead TH/SS. This is quite possibly the first time I've seen a shooting unit that can feasibly be both anti-horde and anti-elite

Meanwhile, any shooty survivors nearby you can throw the NSJ on to to give Gets Hot to them. Mostly for fun.

Can't imagine you'll see this often, but in games of Apocalypse...

EDIT: When I say expensive, I'm talking 600pts+...

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
I can't help but think a Farsight bomb could be lethal, if expensive.

Give a single bodyguard the CCN, MSSS, PEN, NSJ. Then give as many as you like fusion blasters and plasma rifles.

Give up your shooting with the supporting bodyguard, your 7 plasma rifles and 6 fusion blasters are all twinlinked, ignores cover, presumably BS5 from Markerlights, and able to deepstrike without scattering. Some quick mathammering give 16.2 dead MEQ, regardless of cover. Alternatively, 10 dead TEQ, or 5 Dead TH/SS. This is quite possibly the first time I've seen a shooting unit that can feasibly be both anti-horde and anti-elite

Meanwhile, any shooty survivors nearby you can throw the NSJ on to to give Gets Hot to them. Mostly for fun.

Can't imagine you'll see this often, but in games of Apocalypse...

EDIT: When I say expensive, I'm talking 600pts+...

I remember that full squad is something like under 900 with double shield drones each. quick questions though. it appears there is no limit to how many special equipment a single body guard can take. would like it if some one could confirm this.

Ok, people say kroot are good troops, let me correct that:

Kroot are medicore troops, the are the infantry squad of the empire, their only boon is the fact they are so godamn cheap you can field absurd amounts and hardly feel it in your points.

Firewarriors are the veterans, cost significantly more, but hit harder, take hits better and generally better equipped. plus, haywire grenades! I DARE you to drive your tanks next to my space goats!


Infiltration tactics, while amusing and totally viable, can be countered by good positioning.
These guys are not a "go to", nor are they "one of the best nits in the codex", they are viable and have their expendable uses, no more, no less.
You still need warriors to have a shard of objective-holding power. kroots are not that hard to kill, or to brake.

@desubot

As far as the codex is concerned you are right

Bodyguard has unlimited access to the so-called signature systems. With regular crisis shas'vre, it's one of their three choices

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
Bodyguard has unlimited access to the so-called signature systems. With regular crisis shas'vre, it's one of their three choices

You can still only take 1 of each per army though :(. Can you imagine an entire crisis team outfitted with onager gauntlets, FNP,T5, 2 wounds, and a 2+ save

As I haven't had a chance to look at the new Tau codex I have a question about the assisted overwatch rules. Are units that assist in overwatch confined to the one overwatch per turn/phase or can they overwatch multiple times?

For example. You have a two units of Kroot infront of a unit of Fire Warriors. Your opponent assaults both units of Kroot each with a different unit. Can the Fire Warriors assist with with the overwatch for both units of Kroot or just one?

 BayneMor wrote:
As I haven't had a chance to look at the new Tau codex I have a question about the assisted overwatch rules. Are units that assist in overwatch confined to the one overwatch per turn/phase or can they overwatch multiple times?

For example. You have a two units of Kroot infront of a unit of Fire Warriors. Your opponent assaults both units of Kroot each with a different unit. Can the Fire Warriors assist with with the overwatch for both units of Kroot or just one?

Just one. The only exception is HH Ace who can overwatch multiple times.

As far as I can tell these are the uses for kroot:
-Infiltrate/outflank for objectives
-infiltate/outflank for side aremor (3 autocannons and 20 rending sniper shots can glance quite a bit down).
-meat shield: alway have been, always will be.
-maximise support fire

Let me explain that last one. Say you set up your army including a gigantic kroot squad that maximises kroot, krootox and hounds. Deploy it spread out as far as coherency allows (huge area). Then simply deploy the rest of your army with to rules: must be within six inches of the kroot squad. And kroot must be blocking any aproach. You end up with on squad that must be assaulted first and is covered by the overwatch of the entire rest of your force.

What about farsight plus bodyguards (each with fusion, splitfire and shield gen) combined with a space marine librarian who has gate?

You get a ton of fusion guns who can split fire, ability to deepstrike every turn and not scatter, and a JSJ to reposition after you've laid down your damage. You can forgo one of the suits to take the ignores cover/twinlink shenanigans and a drone controller too

How large a squad of sniper drones can we get now? Can I take 6 drones and two spotters for 116 points ... and place them behind an argis for another 100 points and have stealthed, shrouded, drones pew pewing all game with rending? Or am i reading this incorrectly?

I'm having a game right now over vassal with a tau player.

I have learned one thing so far; do not fly a doom scythe right in front of a quad autocannon and a riptide with velocity track and override.

And watching shadowsun completely failing to kill a monolith within melta range is bloody hilarious

 felixcat wrote:

How large a squad of sniper drones can we get now? Can I take 6 drones and two spotters for 116 points ... and place them behind an argis for another 100 points and have stealthed, shrouded, drones pew pewing all game with rending? Or am i reading this incorrectly?

You can max out your sniper squad with 9 drones and 3 spotters for 174 points.

I was wondering how people would recommend running a Farsight Deathstar: Farsight, and 7 bodyguards all kitted out. By my estimates it takes up at LEAST 700 points, but with Farsight's no scatter deepstrike it all but guarantees you kill whatever you want to.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I was wondering how people would recommend running a Farsight Deathstar: Farsight, and 7 bodyguards all kitted out. By my estimates it takes up at LEAST 700 points, but with Farsight's no scatter deepstrike it all but guarantees you kill whatever you want to.

Attach a space marine librarian, then you can re-deepstrike every turn with gate of infinity

Back on the topic of kroot, do the rules allow you to take both kinds of ammo and choose each time you fire? Or is it you buy the upgrade and are left with snipers for the rest of the game.
Because having the upgrade (same price as old kroot) in reserve would make a great trick to keep up your sleeve in case you really needed those precision shots.

cryhavok wrote:
As far as I can tell these are the uses for kroot:
-Infiltrate/outflank for objectives
-infiltate/outflank for side aremor (3 autocannons and 20 rending sniper shots can glance quite a bit down).
-meat shield: alway have been, always will be.
-maximise support fire

Let me explain that last one. Say you set up your army including a gigantic kroot squad that maximises kroot, krootox and hounds. Deploy it spread out as far as coherency allows (huge area). Then simply deploy the rest of your army with to rules: must be within six inches of the kroot squad. And kroot must be blocking any aproach. You end up with on squad that must be assaulted first and is covered by the overwatch of the entire rest of your force.

That is some AWESOME shennanigans lol

@ dakka. yes you can choose which you're firing each time as long as you buy the upgrade for the sniper ammo, says so in the star in the summary in the back of the book

According to the note at the bottom of the weapon profiles page at the back of the codex, once you purchase the sniper shots you can pick between them.

Thanks both of you

So I just got my actual book in, and my word, this is pretty much everything I was worried about. Complete destruction of what tiny little bit was good about the Hammerhead, removal of other availability of str10/ap1 weapons, so enjoy getting squashed by guys who bring out the heavy armor as soon as they see you're playing Tau.

Removal of any ballistic skill modifying items, ensuring that you're forced to pour points into markerlight systems just to get back what you had before the book dropped. That was the reason I took Crisis Bodyguard squads. So I had access to the Shas'vre item list as well as the 3 pieces... So much for that idea. Markerlights themselves saw a nice buff, 2 successful hits == removal of an ADL, which is great, but really now, what army other than Tau is going to rely on an ADL to out-shoot us? Especially now? They'll just change deployment so they can get us in close combat.

Overwatching at BS2 instead of BS1 is nice, but I mean, that's it? for a support slot? Eeehhh... Then you've got the fact that the broadsides lose all their support abilities which anyone ever fielded them would still probably use - TA or ASS. I guess now Drone Controller on one so everything's BS3.... and a couple of multi-trackers so you can fire your SMS too?

I mean really, this codex did add a LOT of options, but it's all top-heavy. Sniper Drones got a huge boost, and HQ choices became varied and important. That's pretty much it. So in their haste to ensure there's a variance in the Tau lists, they basically ensured that variance will be the exact same in every list. You'll see varied HQ selections, and Markerlights.

I don't mind changes to the system here, but the simplest part of this is that it just feels like they weakened all the "FOTM" units, and left everything else pretty much the same. All in all I'm rather disappointed. I guess someone's GK or Necron army got beaten that one time by an unexpected Tau list, and they ensured that we'd have extremely vulnerable weak points to take advantage of so that would never happen again.

What do people think about mixing Drones and Crisis Suits for different tasks, using Target Locks everywhere?

For example:
Crisis Commander with Drone Controller, Target Lock, Fusion Blaster, 2 Gun Drones
3 Crisis Suits with Fusion Blasters, Target Locks, 6 Gun Drones

Maybe not a great unit, but it's just an example. 4 Meltaguns at one target, 8 bs5 gun drones at another. Of course, everything there could be replaced...Marker Drones, different weapons for the suits, etc.

What do you think?

Well firstly use missile drones rather than gun drones, the only real advantage of a gun drone is the twin-linked which isn't that great when already BS5.

Other than that, it looks viable although you may end up wanting the suits in one place, the drones in another and also wanting the drones protecting the suits... which is a bit difficult. But it could work, I guess.

The drone controller does not work for missile drones and the FAQ removed the ability for Crisis suits to even take missile drones.

Only Broadsides can spam missiles on their missiles.

davou wrote:
What about farsight plus bodyguards (each with fusion, splitfire and shield gen) combined with a space marine librarian who has gate?

You get a ton of fusion guns who can split fire, ability to deepstrike every turn and not scatter, and a JSJ to reposition after you've laid down your damage. You can forgo one of the suits to take the ignores cover/twinlink shenanigans and a drone controller too

For what it's worth, that doesn't work. Gate uses the deep strike rules, but it's not actually a deep strike. For the same reason you can't use the Necron Deathmarks ability every time you jump with an attached Cryptek.

Not going to turn this into a rules discussion, just wanted to point it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anbutou wrote:
So I just got my actual book in, and my word, this is pretty much everything I was worried about. Complete destruction of what tiny little bit was good about the Hammerhead, removal of other availability of str10/ap1 weapons, so enjoy getting squashed by guys who bring out the heavy armor as soon as they see you're playing Tau.

Removal of any ballistic skill modifying items, ensuring that you're forced to pour points into markerlight systems just to get back what you had before the book dropped. That was the reason I took Crisis Bodyguard squads. So I had access to the Shas'vre item list as well as the 3 pieces... So much for that idea. Markerlights themselves saw a nice buff, 2 successful hits == removal of an ADL, which is great, but really now, what army other than Tau is going to rely on an ADL to out-shoot us? Especially now? They'll just change deployment so they can get us in close combat.

Overwatching at BS2 instead of BS1 is nice, but I mean, that's it? for a support slot? Eeehhh... Then you've got the fact that the broadsides lose all their support abilities which anyone ever fielded them would still probably use - TA or ASS. I guess now Drone Controller on one so everything's BS3.... and a couple of multi-trackers so you can fire your SMS too?

I mean really, this codex did add a LOT of options, but it's all top-heavy. Sniper Drones got a huge boost, and HQ choices became varied and important. That's pretty much it. So in their haste to ensure there's a variance in the Tau lists, they basically ensured that variance will be the exact same in every list. You'll see varied HQ selections, and Markerlights.

I don't mind changes to the system here, but the simplest part of this is that it just feels like they weakened all the "FOTM" units, and left everything else pretty much the same. All in all I'm rather disappointed. I guess someone's GK or Necron army got beaten that one time by an unexpected Tau list, and they ensured that we'd have extremely vulnerable weak points to take advantage of so that would never happen again.

I sincerely hope this opinion spreads. Is this what the general consensus on Tau is?

Lanlaorn wrote:
The drone controller does not work for missile drones and the FAQ removed the ability for Crisis suits to even take missile drones.

Only Broadsides can spam missiles on their missiles.

They've already got an FAQ out? Worse, they're already going against what's clearly written in the codex? Darn...

 p_gray99 wrote:

Lanlaorn wrote:
The drone controller does not work for missile drones and the FAQ removed the ability for Crisis suits to even take missile drones.

Only Broadsides can spam missiles on their missiles.

They've already got an FAQ out? Worse, they're already going against what's clearly written in the codex? Darn...

The FAQ corrects this one issue, which was a typo. The digital version of the codex always said they were Broadsides-only, all this does is correct the wording in the paper codex.

Fair enough. It's a shame, but I can see why they did it. Otherwise, I couldn't really see why anyone would take gun drones when they could take missile drones...

I will give credit where credit is due, with the points refund, you can make ONE of your hammerheads quite a powerful machine by including Longstrike, for about the same point level as you had originally. Which is handy, I won't lie. Your options with pathfinders and fire warriors go up quite a bit, with the addition of powerful weapon options and Darkstrider to basically be immune to getting charged. Aun'Shi's FNP == AP you're shot with rule is actually really interesting, and I see every tau player having one on hand just in case you run into a melta spam army or the like.

I'm still going to play Tau, I still enjoy Tau, but I think that tau competitiveness has really fallen off the table. No more unexpected deployments or difficult to counter with what you're already fielding lists, pretty much kill the markerlights == cripple the shooting. So if you've got the ability to deep strike or cross the field quickly, a 36" heavy range becomes our crutch. If you've got an advantage (powerful markerlight support) then all it takes is one quickly moving assault unit to tie them up and wipe them out. Even if you split them up into smaller groups, you'll find your rhythm interrupted easily. Here's to the future of our race, for the greater good.

Edit - That's pretty much the reason they limited the missile drones. Who in their right mind would choose a gun drone over a missile drone at the same point cost? I know for a fact I wouldn't. So basically it would remove gun drones entirely from the tau arsenal. They've already gone an awesome length by normalizing all drone support, allowing people to really field things that they'd never use normally.

What's the chance of seeker spam working?
With seekers dropping in price, can you get 20-30 of them on the table?

-Matt

It's just a str8/ap3 shot. Not even like you can carry very many. Unless you went full out skyray, in which case not only are you crippling your primary anti-av role, but you're also precluding yourself from being able to utilize broadsides or sniper drone teams.

I've got 6 on my broadsides, we'll see how it works later. All it costs me is a few bucks on ebay to pick up the missiles. Rigging up these missile systems is gonna be expensive. Missile pods aren't cheap.

Regarding Seeker Spam, I think it can be workable, but it's got limitations. Given that the HS slots no longer *have* to be dedicated to tank hunting (S8 Heavy Rail Rifles *are* less effective in the anti-armor role these days, and you get too few Railcannons in those slots), you do have more flexibility in what you choose to run in those slots. Triple Skyray isn't necessarily a crippling disadvantage assuming you compensate with Fusion / Missile Pods / EMP / large blasts elsewhere.

Seeker Spam only really works (IMO) when you've got plenty of Markerlights and can get Seekers on multiple platforms that can get side / rear armor shots as desired. That means in addition to your Skyrays in the HS slots, you'll need sufficient MLs in the FA slots, plus either several Devilfish or Piranhas as additional Seeker carriers. You can get a serious Turn 1 Alpha Strike in - but whether that's effective or not really depends on what you're facing. With sufficient ML support, you can quite easily take out Thunderfire Cannons and the like. Taking down Flyers should also be a lot easier with a 3x Skyray list, even after the Seekers are expended - using the Skyfiring MLs to boost the BS of ground-based Fusion that's firing Snap Shots really can ruin someone's day in a hurry.

As noted above, though, if you're wanting to run that kind of a list, ensure you get enough Fusion / EMP to take out the heavy armor, and enough large blasts via Riptides and the like to whittle down hordes.

Anbutou wrote:

I'm still going to play Tau, I still enjoy Tau, but I think that tau competitiveness has really fallen off the table. No more unexpected deployments or difficult to counter with what you're already fielding lists, pretty much kill the markerlights == cripple the shooting. So if you've got the ability to deep strike or cross the field quickly, a 36" heavy range becomes our crutch. If you've got an advantage (powerful markerlight support) then all it takes is one quickly moving assault unit to tie them up and wipe them out. Even if you split them up into smaller groups, you'll find your rhythm interrupted easily. Here's to the future of our race, for the greater good.

And then you run into a marker-free dakka-spam army where he values more guns over accurate guns, or a guy who spreads his markerlights among units with marker drones and the concept of killing marker units first gets thrown off the window.


Sure, drones are not as efficient in mark-per-point, but good luck distupting their rythem with the better armor, higher thoughness and JSJ movement on a platform that cares not about enemies having cover, and has great range.

So orks?

 BoomWolf wrote:

Anbutou wrote:

I'm still going to play Tau, I still enjoy Tau, but I think that tau competitiveness has really fallen off the table. No more unexpected deployments or difficult to counter with what you're already fielding lists, pretty much kill the markerlights == cripple the shooting. So if you've got the ability to deep strike or cross the field quickly, a 36" heavy range becomes our crutch. If you've got an advantage (powerful markerlight support) then all it takes is one quickly moving assault unit to tie them up and wipe them out. Even if you split them up into smaller groups, you'll find your rhythm interrupted easily. Here's to the future of our race, for the greater good.

And then you run into a marker-free dakka-spam army where he values more guns over accurate guns, or a guy who spreads his markerlights among units with marker drones and the concept of killing marker units first gets thrown off the window.


Sure, drones are not as efficient in mark-per-point, but good luck distupting their rythem with the better armor, higher thoughness and JSJ movement on a platform that cares not about enemies having cover, and has great range.

I kinda chuckled here. You're talking to the guy who RAN the marker-free tau army. I utilized crisis commander bodyguard squads as my crisis suits just so I could get the Shas'vre upgrade list on each one, and take the Targeting Arrays. I took Broadsides because without markerlights Hammerhead solid shots were worse than useless, they were a standing points deduction. I took Broadsides every time because I could utilize Slow and Purposeful or TA bonuses. I RARELY ever gave my fire warriors fish, because the meta didn't include much that could really make me worry too greatly (Plus, dem points man). Toss in a couple of XV-9's and a Piranha TX-42 and you've got a solid fast response setup as well.

Now I run 8 marker drones, and two 6 man squads of Pathfinders, and it's JUST enough to get me back to where I was in terms of shooting efficiency. That's the problem here. Also, you go ahead and tell me what you're bringing to the table with an additional 132 pts for the two 6 man teams, or 220 pts for two 10 man squads. How much "dakka" can you bring for 220 points that outweighs the ability to shoot at BS5 pretty much around your entire army? I'll let you tell me. My current list is R'alai who'll go first with his marker drones, followed up by my command squad, they'll use one to hit bs4, fire their marker drones, commander has drone controller, so bs5 there. That's pretty much 3 hits on average, but most likely 4. You then toss two to pathfinder squad one, two to pathfinder squad two, and that's pretty much a full list of hits. Now everything fires at bs5, basically. Three more drones on the XV8 squad in the elites section, just in case things go awry. It really doesn't matter what strategy you utilize, you're pretty much GOING to be bringing pathfinders, and that creates the weakness of the army. You've got a 36" immobile force that you rely on to ensure your victory. You really don't think that's a bit of a night and day difference from what Tau was capable of with their previous codex?

Going from the ability to constantly shift battle lines down to being every other shooting army, just with different effects comprising your shooting, it's pretty jarring. That JSJ wasn't just something that kept you out of LOS. You used that to add another 12-18 inches to your deployment. Starting on one corner and ending on the other was a powerful force with the Tau. Now we just have to hope we can end you before you reach our lines. Every single army has some method of deep strike available to them, if they can utilize it and get into close combat, or even send in their expensive high invuln save troops up to the front to buy their faster attacking troops a turn or two to get in, it's all the same result. You've got an immobile backbone of your force that you're required to have to be as effective as you were a week ago.

Edit - and this of course is just random BS. Obviously your turn won't go anything like what I just said. You'll initiate with BS5 markers on 2-3 different targets, utilize pathfinders against other priority targets and the overall effectiveness of your markerlights will be dropped 50% easily. Markerlights are powerful, but without them you're just another guardsman squad trying to get kills. This is the problem. We've been given no opportunity to succeed without them, and now we can't drop them if we want to.

Id have to agree the removal of Targeting Array is total bs and hurt tau a lot. I like the idea of marker lights but as the above posted said (in a nutshell) theyre a liability and a pointsink. Targeting array may have been a per model upgrade before, but it was always there with 0 chance to fail. Now it can fail or worse can be focused fired out and screw your army over hardcore.

Yes, there's no more way to to get BS4 on suits, but the whole list is riddled with ways to improve your shooting without markerlights. Command and control node, multispectral sensor, built in multitrackers, twin-linked weapons everywhere, drone controllers, high RoF weapons, Etherials, Fireblades, and Longstrike, are the ones that come to mind. Maybe it's because I'm also a Guard player, but I never look at BS when determining shooting quality, I look at expected wounds. I don't care if they're coming off of a BS2 model as long as wounds happen.

They "fixed" missile drones but didn't do anything about burst cannons on Hammerheads? Talk about useless options; why would you ever take a burst cannon when the SMS is the same price (free)?

 agnosto wrote:
They "fixed" missile drones but didn't do anything about burst cannons on Hammerheads? Talk about useless options; why would you ever take a burst cannon when the SMS is the same price (free)?

Again, they fixed missile drones because it was a TYPO. The digital version of the codex always had them as Broadsides-only, the FAQ was just rushed out to fix the typo in the paper version before people started building armies based on it.

Anbutou wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

Anbutou wrote:

I'm still going to play Tau, I still enjoy Tau, but I think that tau competitiveness has really fallen off the table. No more unexpected deployments or difficult to counter with what you're already fielding lists, pretty much kill the markerlights == cripple the shooting. So if you've got the ability to deep strike or cross the field quickly, a 36" heavy range becomes our crutch. If you've got an advantage (powerful markerlight support) then all it takes is one quickly moving assault unit to tie them up and wipe them out. Even if you split them up into smaller groups, you'll find your rhythm interrupted easily. Here's to the future of our race, for the greater good.

And then you run into a marker-free dakka-spam army where he values more guns over accurate guns, or a guy who spreads his markerlights among units with marker drones and the concept of killing marker units first gets thrown off the window.


Sure, drones are not as efficient in mark-per-point, but good luck distupting their rythem with the better armor, higher thoughness and JSJ movement on a platform that cares not about enemies having cover, and has great range.

I kinda chuckled here. You're talking to the guy who RAN the marker-free tau army. I utilized crisis commander bodyguard squads as my crisis suits just so I could get the Shas'vre upgrade list on each one, and take the Targeting Arrays. I took Broadsides because without markerlights Hammerhead solid shots were worse than useless, they were a standing points deduction. I took Broadsides every time because I could utilize Slow and Purposeful or TA bonuses. I RARELY ever gave my fire warriors fish, because the meta didn't include much that could really make me worry too greatly (Plus, dem points man). Toss in a couple of XV-9's and a Piranha TX-42 and you've got a solid fast response setup as well.

Now I run 8 marker drones, and two 6 man squads of Pathfinders, and it's JUST enough to get me back to where I was in terms of shooting efficiency. That's the problem here. Also, you go ahead and tell me what you're bringing to the table with an additional 132 pts for the two 6 man teams, or 220 pts for two 10 man squads. How much "dakka" can you bring for 220 points that outweighs the ability to shoot at BS5 pretty much around your entire army? I'll let you tell me. My current list is R'alai who'll go first with his marker drones, followed up by my command squad, they'll use one to hit bs4, fire their marker drones, commander has drone controller, so bs5 there. That's pretty much 3 hits on average, but most likely 4. You then toss two to pathfinder squad one, two to pathfinder squad two, and that's pretty much a full list of hits. Now everything fires at bs5, basically. Three more drones on the XV8 squad in the elites section, just in case things go awry. It really doesn't matter what strategy you utilize, you're pretty much GOING to be bringing pathfinders, and that creates the weakness of the army. You've got a 36" immobile force that you rely on to ensure your victory. You really don't think that's a bit of a night and day difference from what Tau was capable of with their previous codex?

Going from the ability to constantly shift battle lines down to being every other shooting army, just with different effects comprising your shooting, it's pretty jarring. That JSJ wasn't just something that kept you out of LOS. You used that to add another 12-18 inches to your deployment. Starting on one corner and ending on the other was a powerful force with the Tau. Now we just have to hope we can end you before you reach our lines. Every single army has some method of deep strike available to them, if they can utilize it and get into close combat, or even send in their expensive high invuln save troops up to the front to buy their faster attacking troops a turn or two to get in, it's all the same result. You've got an immobile backbone of your force that you're required to have to be as effective as you were a week ago.

Edit - and this of course is just random BS. Obviously your turn won't go anything like what I just said. You'll initiate with BS5 markers on 2-3 different targets, utilize pathfinders against other priority targets and the overall effectiveness of your markerlights will be dropped 50% easily. Markerlights are powerful, but without them you're just another guardsman squad trying to get kills. This is the problem. We've been given no opportunity to succeed without them, and now we can't drop them if we want to.

I totally agree with all of this. I ran the same list in 6th with the old codex, I didn't even use TA, just had a farseer with Divination making my 4 man suit squad TL with everything. who needed markerlights with the exception of my two tetras which only used them to remove coversaves from priority targets.

No my army has two 8 man pathfinders and 2 markers on the cmdr, just to get by. Lost another FA slot and roughly 80pts just to get back to where I was pre-codex. Sigh

What is dakka's opinion on taking two of the same weapon on a crisis suit rather than the TL version? For example: a Helios suit with two single plasma rifles and a single fusion blaster rather than a TL PR and single FC. Yes you can't fire them all, but is not the extra shot and option worth it?

XLIMil wrote:
What is dakka's opinion on taking two of the same weapon on a crisis suit rather than the TL version? For example: a Helios suit with two single plasma rifles and a single fusion blaster rather than a TL PR and single FC. Yes you can't fire them all, but is not the extra shot and option worth it?

Well i know opinion is divided between you can take 2 of the same weapons as a standard single version vs twinlinked, and till FAQ settles it probably best not to take em as singles and even then its a waste of points every turn that or just magnets and try it out.

Fair enough. I have tried two single missile pods and they certainly worked out better than one TL version.

I am not sure though where the ambiguity is in the RAW when it concerns taking two singles: "Where a weapon has two points costs, the first is for a standard, single version, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A twin-linked weapon counts as two choice from this list." Yes it says that the second point option is a choice for a TL version that counts as two hard points. No it does not say that two choices of the first points option equates to choosing the second points option (as that wouldn't make sense).

I do see the point of the argument though if you say that nowhere does it explicitiely say you can choose the same list entry twice. I would counter with asking if you think a commander then cannot take, for example, two TL PR as his four options. If the answer to that is that it is fine for a commander to take a pair of the same TL weaponry then it would certainly be fine for a regular suit to take a pair of non TL weapons. That said, yeah a FAQ on this would be nice.

XLIMil wrote:
I am not sure though where the ambiguity is in the RAW when it concerns taking two singles:

There isn't any ambiguity RAW, the rules are perfectly clear that you can take two single weapons. The concern is that GW thinks it's not fluffy and will "FAQ" it back to how it worked in the old codex, so you should wait until the first real FAQ is published to commit to building dual single-weapon suits.

 Peregrine wrote:
There isn't any ambiguity RAW, the rules are perfectly clear that you can take two single weapons. The concern is that GW thinks it's not fluffy and will "FAQ" it back to how it worked in the old codex, so you should wait until the first real FAQ is published to commit to building dual single-weapon suits.

That makes sense thank you for clearing that up! On topic: anyone try the MSSS and C&CN commander loadout? If so then with what and was it useful?

 Peregrine wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
They "fixed" missile drones but didn't do anything about burst cannons on Hammerheads? Talk about useless options; why would you ever take a burst cannon when the SMS is the same price (free)?

Again, they fixed missile drones because it was a TYPO. The digital version of the codex always had them as Broadsides-only, the FAQ was just rushed out to fix the typo in the paper version before people started building armies based on it.

So the burst cannon sucking so much when compared the same cost SMS could be a typo too.

Relax, some people just want to have fun with...a game. I know a novel concept. Not everything typed needs to be met with an attitude of infinite sufferance.

 agnosto wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
They "fixed" missile drones but didn't do anything about burst cannons on Hammerheads? Talk about useless options; why would you ever take a burst cannon when the SMS is the same price (free)?

Again, they fixed missile drones because it was a TYPO. The digital version of the codex always had them as Broadsides-only, the FAQ was just rushed out to fix the typo in the paper version before people started building armies based on it.

So the burst cannon sucking so much when compared the same cost SMS could be a typo too.

Relax, some people just want to have fun with...a game. I know a novel concept. Not everything typed needs to be met with an attitude of infinite sufferance.

A typo on both the Digital and the hardcopy?

I suppose its possible. Lets just hope they realize their error.

XLIMil wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
There isn't any ambiguity RAW, the rules are perfectly clear that you can take two single weapons. The concern is that GW thinks it's not fluffy and will "FAQ" it back to how it worked in the old codex, so you should wait until the first real FAQ is published to commit to building dual single-weapon suits.

That makes sense thank you for clearing that up!

It is true that there is no ambiguity. Two weapons are twin-linked, and Peregrine is wrong.

Here is a thread where this matter if fruitlessly discussed ad nauseam. Please direct any further debate on this matter to that thread.

I really feel that tau is not strong enough to make a change to the meta directly, the way that necrons, IG and CSM can. But Tau has some very good tools to combat a meta. If flyer spam is big in your group then tau can counter it. If sv2's are common tau can counter it. We We do not have raw power but we have almost unmatched adaptability. So we are able to react and change which is good and bad. This means our fine tuned lists will have a clear advantage while our general lists will be a little underpowered. This also means that we can sweep the top decks but may not have the tools to deal with something different. For example we can destroy small elite units and deathstars but doing so leaves us with little volume of fire to take out horde armies. So depending on how similar strategies are we might be very competitive.

On a non-tournament scene level I think our book is fine, it was okay before the update (I know I won most games unless fighting necrons and IG) and our book only made us stronger. so I am pretty happy.

As for actual tactics, I think our HQ choices is really the thing that will open us up and depending on what HQ you pick will determine what tactics you are going to be deploying.

Quick question: with all drone types now costing the same will there ever be any reason to take Gun Drones over Shield or even Marker Drones?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Quick question: with all drone types now costing the same will there ever be any reason to take Gun Drones over Shield or even Marker Drones?

I think for me it will depend on the size battle I am fighting.

At low point values, I would probably attach a marker drone squad to my commander since I won't have as many options for marker lights in other units.

At a higher point value, I think I have a fair amount of marker lights elsewhere in squads that I think I would attach a gun drone squad with him and just spam pulse carbine shots all over the place.

Just have to play it and see which one serves me better.

hokieseas wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Quick question: with all drone types now costing the same will there ever be any reason to take Gun Drones over Shield or even Marker Drones?

I think for me it will depend on the size battle I am fighting.

At low point values, I would probably attach a marker drone squad to my commander since I won't have as many options for marker lights in other units.

At a higher point value, I think I have a fair amount of marker lights elsewhere in squads that I think I would attach a gun drone squad with him and just spam pulse carbine shots all over the place.

Just have to play it and see which one serves me better.

Would Shield Drones Serve you better in both cases, since it low points games you're commander is likely your only HQ so you want to keep him alive, and in high points games they will be plenty of things that could ID him?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:


Would Shield Drones Serve you better in both cases, since it low points games you're commander is likely your only HQ so you want to keep him alive, and in high points games they will be plenty of things that could ID him?

I would still take 2 shield drones as the two drones I can from his codex entry. The other drones I was talking about, marker or gun, would be a fast attack drone squad for my commander to join. Yes, I have been splattered too easily from the Dark Eldar and Chaos players I typically play that my Commander does not leave the house without some shield drones anymore.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Quick question: with all drone types now costing the same will there ever be any reason to take Gun Drones over Shield or even Marker Drones?

Depends on the load out of the suits. If you have missile pods and are planing on staying 36" away then shield and marker dones are the best you can get. If are up close then adding a few s5 shots won't be the worst thing and if you are lucky you might get a pin. You probably aren't going to see that many gun drones compared to marker drones but they do have a purpose.

 Crimson wrote:

XLIMil wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
There isn't any ambiguity RAW, the rules are perfectly clear that you can take two single weapons. The concern is that GW thinks it's not fluffy and will "FAQ" it back to how it worked in the old codex, so you should wait until the first real FAQ is published to commit to building dual single-weapon suits.

That makes sense thank you for clearing that up!

It is true that there is no ambiguity. Two weapons are twin-linked, and Peregrine is wrong.

Here is a thread where this matter if fruitlessly discussed ad nauseam. Please direct any further debate on this matter to that thread.

Nope.

The Crisis suit may take up to three items from the ranged weapons, signature systems, or support systems.

The top of page 95 reads "These lists detail the points values of various items..."

Each weapon is an item. I can have three. A twin-linked version is two.

Running two of the same weapon I'm pretty sure is still out, but there's NOTHING to say you can't twin link one system and run another of the same weapon. I'm planning on still running a lot of PR/MP suits, but I've got every weapons combination under the sun magnetized, so we'll see what becomes amazing. I'm still used to the playing style that says if I've closed into rapid fire range with my PR then I'm just mocking you - but who knows, 18 inch fusion blasters could be just what I need to ever bring Shadowsun - Also, really REALLY digging the new Cyclic Ion Blaster. I used to have that available for when nids or swarmy crap showed up, but man, now it's on a whole other level.

I've been testing this Farsight Bomb in a number of games to great effect. Not one single unit has stood up to one round of shooting from this squad:

HQ (850pts)

Commander Farsight.

XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team

Crisis Bodyguard x1.
Command and Control Node, Drone controller, 2x Gun drone, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Flamer Twin linked.
Crisis Bodyguard x6
Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, 2x Shield drone.

It's expensive, but it is that effective that you don't need another Crisis unit.

I used this unit to take out a number of units including an Ork Blob, my own Deathwing army in three turns and with Markerlight support a ten man Paladin squad just to name a few.

That's a pretty nasty unit. Is it completely crazy to add Shadowsun to the Farsight Bomb?

I tested it with other Commanders but OMG with Shadowsun it becomes pretty broken.

Only downside is that you can't shoot at a tank and split fire into the gooey contents of it.

I've been trying this uber unit with Railheads. Seems to be a great duo.

Also with some Riptides.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
That's a pretty nasty unit. Is it completely crazy to add Shadowsun to the Farsight Bomb?

Probably. 2+ cover save and more guns is nice, but probably overkill on a unit that is already too expensive. On the other hand it's already stupidly expensive so why not go all-or-nothing on it...

Btw, if you try that squad people will ask why are you taking that config on the suits.

Use Burst Cannon and Plasma on hordes and overwatch.
Use Fusion and Plasma on elite units.

Taking a second commander helps as he can have vectored thrusters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to try Shadowsun later. It just seems too good not to.

That looks awesome, but also kind of an all-your-eggs-in-one-basket unit. Watch out for Battlecannons or Vindicators, if those things hit you'll be picking up the whole squad and be out about half your army.

So Ionheads are fun now. Pop a Rhino with something else, then pie plate the cute lil marines that were hiding inside. Tag them with at least 2 marker lights to make the average scatter no big deal and laugh when they disappear into an ionic warp puff.

The XV104 is an absolute BEAST. Didn't even matter that melta was flying it's way with 5++ 5FNP. It's a big scary distraction that kept my other deadly dakka units from getting shot at and it didn't die in either game I player with it. Just for the love of the Greater Good, do NOT charge anything with a half-way decent close quarters attack or you will get wrecked. Otherwise well worth its point cost and is incredibly demoralizing when it keeps jumping around into inconvenient locations after blowing up their stuff.

the markerlight rule is gone. so now you can use markerlight hits to generate MOAR MARKERLIGHT HITS (pathfinders are a must for this) just thought I'd throw it out there
its a dirty trick but someone gets to do it

I feel the ideal setup for pathfinders are 3 units of 6 infiltrated into ruins all over the place. ~3 markerlight hits allows you to strip cover and hit on 3s reliably.

katfude wrote:
I feel the ideal setup for pathfinders are 3 units of 6 infiltrated into ruins all over the place. ~3 markerlight hits allows you to strip cover and hit on 3s reliably.

5 Markers with a Rail Rifle guy?

Speaking of the rail rifle...what do people think of the Ion/Rail rifle on the Pathfinders? I wish they came with a target lock like they did when you took a special weapon on Pathfinders in the previous codex.

As it stands they seem like good guns but it seems like you would be stuck with a unit that doesn't know what it's doing. It wants to markerlight things for other squads, but you need to use markerlights to give your 10-15pt special weapon a decent chance to hit. At the same time I can see merit in the argument that it gives the ability to do damage to a squad that is primarily support, though if the guns are too strong it makes them an even bigger target. For the points I think I would rather have other units, but maybe I am looking at them wrong. Any thoughts?

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
That looks awesome, but also kind of an all-your-eggs-in-one-basket unit. Watch out for Battlecannons or Vindicators, if those things hit you'll be picking up the whole squad and be out about half your army.

More importantly... don't Deep Strike with a Riptide with an ion accelerator on the board with the Interceptor upgrade... but then, the Riptide is the answer to most questions atm

Here is the markerlight tactic I recommend:
Commander:
Weapon1, Weapon2, Target Lock, Drone Controller
2x Markerlight Drones
Crisis Team 1:
3x Suit w/ Weapon, Weapon, Target Lock
6x Markerlight Drones
Crisis Team 2:
Suit w/ Weapon, Drone Controller, Target Lock
2x Suit w/ Weapon, Weapon, Target Lock
6x Markerlight Drones
Crisis Team 3:
Suit w/ Weapon, Drone Controller, Target Lock
2x Suit w/ Weapon, Weapon, Target Lock
6x Markerlight Drones

There are 3 enemy squads.
Commander joins Crisis Team 1.
Crisis Team 1 shoots at enemy squad 1. drones are BS5 thanks to the commander. All Suits can fire at whatever they want in reality thanks to target locks, but end result is Enemy team 1 is still alive with ~6-7 markerlight tokens on it.
Crisis Team 2 shoots at Enemy Squad 2. All Crisis Suits in Team 2 use the target lock to shoot at Enemy Squad 1, and expend tokens to boost their BS to 5. Markerlight drones inherit their BS from the Suit with the DC, which is now 5. All members of unit are BS5 now. Enemy team 1 suffers BS5 from crisis team, and enemy Team 2 gets ~5 markerlight tokens placed on it.
Repeat again with Crisis Team 3.
Use remaining markerlight tokens by the rest of your army. You now have army-wide BS5 ignores cover. All markerlight drones can also JSJ and can move and fire.

I honestly think this is the tactic that's going to break our Codex into a very competitive tournament list. Combine this with Broadside Teams of 3 full of 6x missile pod drones all shooting at BS5 thanks to the plethora of markerlights and you have absolutely ridiculous amounts of dakka.

 Lotus wrote:
Here is the markerlight tactic I recommend:

Stuff...

you have to be careful here though... you are spending 240+ on drones that will light up units like a Christmas tree... but are otherwise not doing damage... remember, sometimes quality just can't compete with quantity.

Speaking of BS 5 commanders i was thinking him with an advance targeting system on a Icarus las cannon for character sniping (and if you get lucky with that warlord trait)
otherwise sit him with a neuro chip and maybe a support body guard with msss, ccn and you have a decent vehicle killer for first blood most games.

Has anyone tried Darkstrider?

He seems to make a lot of armies better, but he is very fragile.

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried Darkstrider?

He seems to make a lot of armies better, but he is very fragile.

Oh I can see him being used to Great Effect... especially vs CSM and their DP, or Greater Daemons.

The tactic would be to have your line of Fire Warriors / whatever set up to take the charge... have Darkstrider behind them... fire your overwatch then use the D6 move to get In Front of the intended charge target, thereby blocking the charge and having it automatically fail... now shoot the SNOT outa whatever dared to charge you.

IMO a real hidden gem in the codex is mass sniper Kroot combined with an Ethereal and an ADL. Add on an allied Eldar Farseer w/ Doom, if you feel like it. Stick the ADL in midfield and infiltrate all your Kroot up behind it, and start sniping t1.

Bring your Farseer+Ethereal up ASAP to get Doom onto priority targets, and if your opponent tries to get close to you you can spring forward with your Kroot and put out 3 shots each thanks to the Ethereal's megadoubletap power.

I did the math for lols on 120 sniperkroot w/ Doom (and no markerlight help), you'll cause 30 saves and 15 rends, regardless of T. Ouch. Those kroot squads also cost only 840pts, and are still 120 scoring bodies w/ a 4+ from the ADL.

I wouldn't play 120 though, maybe 100 max, so you can still fit in Broadsides, some markerlights and a Riptide or 2 at 1850. Here's the list I was actually thinking of trying out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/520283.page

SaganGree wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried Darkstrider?

He seems to make a lot of armies better, but he is very fragile.

Oh I can see him being used to Great Effect... especially vs CSM and their DP, or Greater Daemons.

The tactic would be to have your line of Fire Warriors / whatever set up to take the charge... have Darkstrider behind them... fire your overwatch then use the D6 move to get In Front of the intended charge target, thereby blocking the charge and having it automatically fail... now shoot the SNOT outa whatever dared to charge you.

Mother of god that's actually brilliant. DPs are T5 right? (use Darkstrider to ID them on a Icarus lol. )

 Desubot wrote:

SaganGree wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried Darkstrider?

He seems to make a lot of armies better, but he is very fragile.

Oh I can see him being used to Great Effect... especially vs CSM and their DP, or Greater Daemons.

The tactic would be to have your line of Fire Warriors / whatever set up to take the charge... have Darkstrider behind them... fire your overwatch then use the D6 move to get In Front of the intended charge target, thereby blocking the charge and having it automatically fail... now shoot the SNOT outa whatever dared to charge you.

Mother of god that's actually brilliant. DPs are T5 right? (use Darkstrider to ID them on a Icarus lol. )

Icarus is S9.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Icarus is S9.

Darkstrider drops Toughness (and ID threshold)

 Desubot wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Icarus is S9.

Darkstrider drops Toughness (and ID threshold)

Oh he does?

Now that's handy.

 Lotus wrote:

There are 3 enemy squads.
Commander joins Crisis Team 1.
Crisis Team 1 shoots at enemy squad 1. drones are BS5 thanks to the commander. All Suits can fire at whatever they want in reality thanks to target locks, but end result is Enemy team 1 is still alive with ~6-7 markerlight tokens on it.
Crisis Team 2 shoots at Enemy Squad 2. All Crisis Suits in Team 2 use the target lock to shoot at Enemy Squad 1, and expend tokens to boost their BS to 5. Markerlight drones inherit their BS from the Suit with the DC, which is now 5. All members of unit are BS5 now. Enemy team 1 suffers BS5 from crisis team, and enemy Team 2 gets ~5 markerlight tokens placed on it.
Repeat again with Crisis Team 3.
Use remaining markerlight tokens by the rest of your army. You now have army-wide BS5 ignores cover. All markerlight drones can also JSJ and can move and fire.

Devious..

If you attach a ethereal w/ a 20 man sniper kroot team can he infiltrate with them? I'm thinking about infiltrating said unit w/ a homing beacon for close 6" deepstikes. Is this doable?