Lets you add in your options and figure out what your pledge amount needs to be in order to cover them. Also provides a running total of all the miniatures which are in the various sets.
May I ask, How do options work? Lets say I want blightfang. Do I take the 1$ option, then ad the option money for it?
Or the 50$ option, do I recieve all of those?
This is going to be a fun one- almost at 1 million on opening day.
Also, here's a scale shot of Narthrax:
Spoiler:
hotsauceman1 wrote: May I ask, How do options work? Lets say I want blightfang. Do I take the 1$ option, then ad the option money for it?
Or the 50$ option, do I recieve all of those?
You choose a pledge level(say $1 or $100), then you just add the cost of your options to that. Say Narthrax added to the $1 pledge. You pledge $13. When the pledge manager comes in after the kickstarter comes in, you select your $12 Narthrax. Easy as that. You can subtract or add to your pledge at any time.
hotsauceman1 wrote: May I ask, How do options work? Lets say I want blightfang. Do I take the 1$ option, then ad the option money for it?
Or the 50$ option, do I recieve all of those?
They actually have color coded it.
The base package ($100) is in purple. Anything on the purple background is free with that pledge level.
The Orange are options. You can add them into a $1 pledge or on top of the $100 package.
The Expansion is a bit like the base package in that it will have stretch goals that get added into it increasing the value over time. It is not included in the base package though and has to be taken like an option. It can be taken on it's own though - you do not need the $100 package to get it.
Using that information, Blight Fang is a $10 option. $1 backing level and $10 pledged with get you Blightfang. The hatchlings from the $1 million dollar level are added into the base package.
Reaper Bryan had stated earlier today that they may introduce the option to include extras of the various Freebies later on during the campaign - though it wasn't clear whether they were going to be doing that as something which could be done for everyone or just those who are backing at the $100 level.
Curious as to these expansion boxes. We get it for 50, and then stretch goals get tossed in that expansion? Kind of a neat idea. We'll see what ends up in that.
I'm hoping some of those big things end up with some kind of a base attached to them (or to plug in to)- I really don't want to fiddle with that Balor's legs or that Dragon Turtle's little pods on his feet.
They usually end up having a standard Reaper-style integrated base, at least for the wobbly bipedal models. The dragons and other quadrupeds tend to come baseless.
I was, I believe, backer #73 on this. Definitely some cool stuff so far! I've got to say I'm not too excited about the expansion though, aside from the dragon turtle. The addons are a bit hit or miss for me too....I like the demons, dragons, the transparent stuff, and the kraken, but I'll likely pass on the rest. There's certainly plenty of time for more cool stuff.
The heroes and villains set just strikes me as a very odd batch of minis, and I don't think I'd actually seen them before on Reaper's site. The castle-armored dude is especially weird, but he could end up being a really weird paladin of Abadar sometime maybe.
The sculpts for many of these are downright pitiful IMHO, especially the skeletons... like GW stuff from the 80s... but there are gems here and there. More than I saw in the 1st campaign, so I'll stick around until the end to see what pops up.
If nothing else, might be good stuff for my kids to paint.
I am very worried though about shipping and customs. I would be more than willing to pay shipping but customs, no. I doubt it would be much of a hassle to use the same Canadian distributor as they used for the 1st campaign, eh?
The Balor and the Hill Giants are the ones I'm most worried about being baseless. That stone giant too in the Expansion set.
I've tried to steer clear of baseless dragons after having an uncooperative hydra to deal with- he's been boiled alive practically and he still doesn't want to straighten his legs so that at least three are touching the ground at once. Once I get him to a close approximation of standing on the ground he's getting glued to a base of some sort.
Considering the sheer amount of stuff they've already thrown at us, there's no telling what's in store over the next few weeks.
I still hope for some giant reptiles that aren't dragons. Unless we end up getting a massive Tiamat style dragon, which would get a free pass.
The Stone Giant from the expansion and the "balor" will most likely have a base - either integral or as a separate part. The one Hill Giant Chieftain will have one as well, but the other will probably not.
I have that odd one out for the hill giant and his 3-point stance is pretty stable as is, so I don't think you should have too many issues with him.
I have taken to pinning through the base into the legs and then gluing them. While a lot of Reaper's customers like the integral bases or no base at all - I tend to use them most for things like war gaming as opposed to RPGs so, bases are part of what you need...plus that gives you something to throw the dead bodies on. They have enough flex in order to allow you to bend them down - and the pins of choice for me on some of the bigger stuff (like the Hydra) have actually been wood screws with a dab of epoxy on them while I screw them in. Solid enough that I have bounced him off the floor and they haven't popped loose. And by bounce - I do mean bounce - intentionally spiked him like a football just to test the methods durability.
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I doubt it would be much of a hassle to use the same Canadian distributor as they used for the 1st campaign, eh?
RAFM handled a small portion of the first campaign, the bulk was handled by Reaper. Even with items which were shipped through RAFM - Reaper still had to pay the GST on those items. I believe that RAFM has determined that they will be too busy with trying to expand and refresh their miniature lines in order to act as a clearing house for Reaper - and if Reaper were to act as their own import agent, they would need to pay the GST for all the orders. Depending on how well the campaign goes, their profit margin in general will get pretty tight and trimming another 8% or so (I think that is around what your GST is) can turn an amazingly successful KS campaign into an amazingly expensive give away.
Postage has also increased a lot to ship to Canada, so I can't really fault them on opting out on the free shipping to Canada. I would be more inclined to push to have the exemption limit raised to something more reasonable. Right now I think it is only like $20 for you guys - which to be perfectly honest might as well be nothing at all. I can't recall the last time that I have bought anything online where my total was less than $20.
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Phobos wrote: Anyone know anything about that figure tray that is a $30 option?
The case is the same as the first campaign (which was well received). They have adjusted the foam used, the size of the compartments and are using a different manufacturer. They have taken feedback and complaints about the first round cases and used that to adjust them. Apparently they have been well received by the people who have seen the prototypes over at Reaper HQ.
I haven't seen detailed break down of what everything is, but they look to be roughly 2x2.5 or 2x3 and about 2 inch thick foam. Each case has 4 trays with 16 slots per tray for a total of 64 slots per case.
2 Curious as to these expansion boxes. We get it for 50, and then stretch goals get tossed in that expansion? Kind of a neat idea. We'll see what ends up in that.
1) Bottom Left of the page.
2) That is the plan. Depending on how high it goes, they have at least 2 other "Expansions". Not sure what are in those or where the switch will be. It will be interesting in a week or two when we have three or four different stretch goals, one for each of the Expansions and the base package going at a time. It should be useful to go ahead and prevent the lag that can occur when you get up to the higher funding levels where you need to space out the stretch goals far enough to pay for them (and the rewards to 10,000 some odd backers).
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Trasvi wrote: Woo! 3 more dragons!
Pledged for $200, which hopefully will get me through all the dragon addons.
Always hard to tell if it is sarcasm or not (really - some people seem to think there have been too many dragons).
Right now there are two large dragons on the radar, Narthrax which has been funded and Blightfang which is the $1 million option. You also have 2 medium dragons in the Expansion (well, one dragon and one dragon turtle). We also have 4 small dragons as the $1 million freebie. Also a chimera - which some people seem to have issue with as being too close to being a dragon. You can get all those for $172 - plus you get a bunch of other stuff which isn't too bad either.
Sean_OBrien wrote: The Stone Giant from the expansion and the "balor" will most likely have a base - either integral or as a separate part. The one Hill Giant Chieftain will have one as well, but the other will probably not.
I have that odd one out for the hill giant and his 3-point stance is pretty stable as is, so I don't think you should have too many issues with him.
I have taken to pinning through the base into the legs and then gluing them. While a lot of Reaper's customers like the integral bases or no base at all - I tend to use them most for things like war gaming as opposed to RPGs so, bases are part of what you need...plus that gives you something to throw the dead bodies on. They have enough flex in order to allow you to bend them down - and the pins of choice for me on some of the bigger stuff (like the Hydra) have actually been wood screws with a dab of epoxy on them while I screw them in. Solid enough that I have bounced him off the floor and they haven't popped loose. And by bounce - I do mean bounce - intentionally spiked him like a football just to test the methods durability.
Do you have any WIP pics of what you're describing? It sounds interesting.
I'll have to see about snapping some photos. Right now it isn't anything special - just the base and figure, I am still ho-humming on the color I want to paint it and whether or not I plan on integrating the hydra into an army or just go ahead and do it as a stand alone and use it as needed.
For now though, I am a pumpkin and have to get some sleep so that I can wake up and update this again.
Only $13K to go till $1 million and almost 9 hours left in the first day of the campaign.
That Balrog and Orcus (the Demon Lord add on) are new sculpts right?
Really wondering how big they'll be. My kids'll be happy having a bunch of demons to play with, and some big ones to boss the rest of the lot around. I caught my daughter playing school in a ruined tower today with Cinderella, Ultraman Taro, Ariel, some random squinkies, and a Pit Fiend. From what I gathered the Pit Fiend didn't want to play with Ariel at recess. Maybe Orcus will play with her instead?
That Balrog (Balor) looks a lot nicer than the pre-painted D&D ones I've got, or the old metal ones I had when I was a kid. I had been checking out the Pathfinder one that's coming in the next set, but why settle for a crappy paint job done in some workshop in China when I can do the same thing at home, and just as sloppy?
Trasvi wrote: Woo! 3 more dragons!
Pledged for $200, which hopefully will get me through all the dragon addons.
Always hard to tell if it is sarcasm or not (really - some people seem to think there have been too many dragons).
Right now there are two large dragons on the radar, Narthrax which has been funded and Blightfang which is the $1 million option. You also have 2 medium dragons in the Expansion (well, one dragon and one dragon turtle). We also have 4 small dragons as the $1 million freebie. Also a chimera - which some people seem to have issue with as being too close to being a dragon. You can get all those for $172 - plus you get a bunch of other stuff which isn't too bad either.
Haha. No, I'm serious, I love dragon minis and made sure to pledge for one of each of them in the last Bones kickstarter.
At the moment I'm counting the two 'large' dragons (Narthrax and Blightfang) plus the dragon in the core set addon - its hard to tell how the scales relate to each other. Not counting the turtle.
I'm looking through the rest of the Reaper catalog at other dragons, and I hope that a few more of them will be made available as addons later on. But as I think you may have said in the other thread - I'm putting my best pledge forward to being unlocking of more stuff early. In the worst case scenario, at least I can get some mouselings
On that note, it's time to start lobbying Reaper for a live version of Kaladrax....
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nice stuff. I considered pledging, but waiting at least 14 months for the stuff? way too gruelling for me.
Not to mention the shipping costs, which we have no clue what they will be, since everywhere except America pays "actual shipping costs", which to the UK or Europe could be extortionate even at the current rates and those could easily go even higher by the time they actually start sending stuff out. And of course if they mark the package as a commercial product which I would suppose they have to, the customs duty will be madness.
If they can sort out worldwide free shipping, or at the least fixed-price shipping costs, I might go in, otherwise I'll have to pass on this one, which is a shame as there's some interesting stuff in there.
Someone in wave 1 must have gotten cold feet so I have now managed to promote myself from wave 3
There are a couple of extras i am thinking of going for but i want a better indication of postage before i go in for any more. I dont want to excitedly go in for extras tp then find out it is too expensive and have to use my extras cash just to pay the shipping...
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nice stuff. I considered pledging, but waiting at least 14 months for the stuff? way too gruelling for me.
Not to mention the shipping costs, which we have no clue what they will be, since everywhere except America pays "actual shipping costs", which to the UK or Europe could be extortionate even at the current rates and those could easily go even higher by the time they actually start sending stuff out. And of course if they mark the package as a commercial product which I would suppose they have to, the customs duty will be madness.
If they can sort out worldwide free shipping, or at the least fixed-price shipping costs, I might go in, otherwise I'll have to pass on this one, which is a shame as there's some interesting stuff in there.
I don't think they want non-American pledgers this time. International shipping was a bear for them last time, and they've come up with a way to minimize the chances of Europeans getting in on the action with less fan backlash than a more honest policy of US ADDRESSES ONLY.
Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?
I'm in at $200 now, but if I don't have an idea on the shipping before the end, I am going to have to drop that down to the core set just to make sure that I keep inside the budget I have put aside for this
BrookM wrote: Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?
They're not going to charge what they want,
they clearly say they're going to charge the actual cost (ie the sticker price of the postage)
(not to say that this won't be high, and it is a scary prospect, but that's the reality of international shipping nowadays)
BrookM wrote: Have to agree that a lack of concrete shipping fees is worrying, not to mention dodgy, as it feels like they can just charge what they want when the campaign is well over and done with. I'd love to pledge, but how much is it going to set us unfortunates back in shipping?
They're not going to charge what they want,
they clearly say they're going to charge the actual cost (ie the sticker price of the postage)
(not to say that this won't be high, and it is a scary prospect, but that's the reality of international shipping nowadays)
That does suck.. I feel for you ROW guys and gals.. Shipping outside our borders is beyond stupid for the price they charge..
Hmm.
The reality of shipping costs is starting to make me think.
The actual shipping cost for the Vampire package + addons I got would have been in the vicinity of $80 - depending on weight, which is only going to go up as the kickstarter goes along
(Assuming a 45x30x20 cm box weighing 5kg, which I think is roughly what my Vampire bundle came in, but will weigh when I get home)
I missed the first bones KS due to personal finance issues and been kicking myself ever since. Absolutely not missing it this time around, I got in for wave 1 a half hour after it opened.
Many of the complaints I've seen about shipping are silly to me. Just Looney-Toons preposterous. I can understand hesitation because of not knowing the cost, and I can understand how knowing that shipping and customs fees might possibly nearly double the amount you pay would turn it from an amazing deal to a not-good-enough-for-me deal, I get that, I really do and I sympathize. But more than that I've seen a lot of outright hate on various forums about having to pay the ACTUAL shipping cost, as though it's somehow totally unfair and how DARE Reaper even THINK of charging the ACTUAL, EXACT amount that it ACTUALLY costs to ship the EXACT package to your EXACT address! Now it's "extortionate", it's gone from unfair to illegal! Silly, hyperbolic nonsense.
It sucks, I'm personally in the free shipping for this one, but I've certainly been on the receiving end enough times ordering items from UK, EU and Oz Kickstarters and online shops. It ain't fun, but there's this thing called the ocean in the way that is kinda costly to move stuff across, especially when it's not in bulk. I doubt I'd blindly pledge without having a better understanding of what I'd have to pay in shipping and fees either, but it's not like they're overcharging you. They aren't quoting a ridiculously high price just to be safe. Certainly isn't "extorionate." it's literally the exact opposite, you're going to pay the exact, real amount it's going to cost. Based on some of the PMs people have posted in various forums it sounds like Reaper is working to figure the best way to ship to different countries.
It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.
Kalamadea wrote: It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.
You're shooting flies with a bazooka, friend. Nowhere on this thread do I see the kind of vehement hate you're raving at.
Kalamadea wrote: It sucks and it sucks a lot, but thems 'da breaks, kid. Disapointment in not getting nearly so great a deal just because of geography? Yup, totally justified. Hate-spewing at Reaper just because they learned from their last kickstarter that international shipping will be incredibly costly and problematic? Disgusting.
You're shooting flies with a bazooka, friend. Nowhere on this thread do I see the kind of vehement hate you're raving at.
Indeed.
Though i dont see him complaining about row backers subsidising the free us shipping and then having to pay the full row shipping as well
How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.
It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.
greywulf wrote: How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.
It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.
Kickstarter doesn't allow US campaigns to charge US shipping though. So presumably the shipping estimate is factored/absorbed into the package value.
I also think that they get internal shipping pretty cheap in bulk, but no such luck with international.
I've got a feeling they're making a killing either way and they could still easily cover shipping state-side.
I think it also has to do with them having gotten it hard from behind when the US postal services upped their non-US shipping costs in between the end of the campaign and the actual shipping phase.
People are estimating $65 to ship to the UK based on the bones 1 size/dimensions at current USPS rates.. customs should be around $35 so I think I'm looking at around $200 total for the $100 pledge level.
Will hang on to the early bird I have until the end of the campaign and then make a more informed decision about whether to drop it or not... think I'd need a core set with about 300 minis in it to make it worthwhile.
I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.
They will be posting a calculator in the next week or so in order to help lock down the shipping costs. One of the issues that you need to remember when considering shipping is that they greatly expanded access to options in the campaign.
If someone backed for just a few dragons, they might only pledge $30 or so, but shipping to Europe or Australia will probably exceed that. I dont think it will end up being much more than $50 or so per backer though, as I have shipped a lot of things to far flung corners and it only gets much above that when things get really bulky.
Shipping fees are a worry, the import taxes I've paid on stuff like zombicide and the first bones were bad enough. If shipping ends up being $60 then suddenly the cost of the core set is doubled by the time it's delivered and the whole thing isn't such a great deal.
That being said I'm still in. I just wish reaper had a UK distributor for this stuff so that you could buy it in the shops over here. Is there even an online vendor that sells Bones in the UK?
I really don't get why every kickstarter has the same "worries" about international shipping. It sucks that it's so expensive, but it's expensive on everything due to price increase and there is absolutely no way around it.. it should be no surprise imo.
In either case, this kickstarter looks awesome so far.
I do also have to remember that while shipping + VAT will almost certainly double anything I pledge, as long as the majority of the models interest me this will still be far, FAR cheaper than picking these up in UK shops.
The Orc's Nest in London is charging a straight 1:1 for $:£ on model prices for Bones - that $3.00 for a vampire becomes £3. And honestly, that's not that much cheaper than ordering something in metal from local indies - most Heresy human-sized models are £3.20 right now, for example.
I'm just perplexed as to why CoolMiniOrNot was able to sort out a local distributor for Europe with minimal hassle, and Reaper isn't. CoolMini's thing is roughly $25 extra in shipping per $100 pledge, no VAT or extra surprise fees from the postman!
I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.
That's actually what Ive done, dropped down and gave up my eb wave 1, I weighed up the number of models i liked vs the number that I'd never use and decided id just get the add on's which interest me.
So far its the Vampires, Dragon and Hill Giants all of which i have a use for. Plus there's Mars attacks coming up and I was thinking about spending more on the Darkland's stuff.
I think i mentioned in the other thread the international shipping was a concern having never ordered over seas before in this way. Each other ks ive backed has used a European distributor to sort this stuff out.
greywulf wrote: How much is it to send a mid-size box in the mail in the US? Unless it's free Reaper is obviously absorbing huge costs that the rest of the world has to subsidize. Reaper could easily tell US backers they have to pay shipping too and, really, with the deals and the insanity, I doubt it would affect their campaign much. 1st time as an experiment, yeah, ok. 2nd campaign though, they already know it's gonna hit a high amount.
It's just so annoying when people tell us not to complain about shipping.
Not very much at all due to volume and economy of scale. My workplace sends a few hundred packages per day via UPS and we have negotiated rates, which can be up to 90% off (they are negotiated per service level based on our volume of packages) and include other incentives (for example, our 3-Day Guaranteed Air rates are the same as Ground rates due to our company's requirement to be able to ship anywhere in the USA in 3 days). UPS, Fedex, and USPS are all brutally competitive right now for business contracts. I could easily see Reaper having at least a 50% off UPS negotiated rate, which would make a box about that size cost less than 5 dollars to ship via 1-5 day Ground.
Kirasu wrote: I really don't get why every kickstarter has the same "worries" about international shipping. It sucks that it's so expensive, but it's expensive on everything due to price increase and there is absolutely no way around it.. it should be no surprise imo.
There are ways around some of the cost and a lot of the hassle if only companies want to make the effort. See all CMON Kickstarters. And Secret Weapon, too. For others, international orders seem to be an afterthought and I think it's not completely outrageous to feel miffed when you're treated as a second-class customer. In this particular case, it seems that international backers even subsidize US backers, which is outrageous to say the least. Maybe that's not what's going on, but Reaper really could be more clear on it.
International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.
They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.
I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.
Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)
Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.
Breotan wrote: Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't have to ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.
The Bones stuff I have is VERY soft as in you can bend it. It is more like a what I consider a toy plastic instead of a miniature plastic BUT the detail isn't that bad. I would consider it worse than Sedition Wars but it depends on what you like I suppose.
I might bail and go for a $1 pledge with add-ons totalling less than $60.. no customs fees, only get stuff I want and shipping should be vastly less.
I went form $1 to $100 to get 1st wave shipping but the add ons are starting to look more attractive to me than the core..I dunno. Going to wait on my current level for a few more days to see what pops up.
I would think that shipping would still make Bones an excellent deal.
CptJake wrote: International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.
They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.
How much clearer does this need to be?
I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.
So over a million dollars in the first 24 hours and they'll go over 10,000 backers probably before lunch today. I'm sure it will feel like a slump compared to yesterday, but the rest of the campain will probably feel much slower.
I think it's interesting that right now the average backer is in at $113. There are only 750 backers at the $1 level, so I think most backers haven't started adding things on to their pledges yet. Once that starts to happen we could get some big jumps. The last campain averaged around $200 per backer, so even right now there could be another million dollars coming just from the current backers.
CptJake wrote: International backers are not subsidizing US shipment.
They have stated international shipping is AT COST. If that is true, and you have no legitimate evidence to support it is not true, then there are NO extra funds from that shipping to subsidize US shipping costs.
How much clearer does this need to be?
I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.
I know how insane it is, that's the reason I stopped shopping USA, because when you are forced to pay more in shipping than the product actually costs, time to shop closer to home, higher local prices or not.
I just think that people don't want to believe how insane international shipping is nowadays.
Agree. Pretty much this is my buying/selling relaity:
*I won't ship overseas
*I won't back international KSs due to the shipping
*Dealing with the UK is hard due to VAT
*I selectively buy from overseas DEPENDING on the shipping.
*If there is something I want from overseas, I find an importer.
I am genuinely confused how people expect hard shipping numbers for a product of variable size and could be 4 times the size and wight by the end of the KS. And I am also confused why they feel they shouldn't have to pay for shipping simply because amazon does it. I think we have all become addicted to amazon prime which makes 'shipping' sound like a dirty word.
US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.
ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).
In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.
Kirasu wrote: I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.
Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)
Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.
I wonder how Mantic manages to keep their shipping costs so low - they have free international shipping to both the UK and the US, and RoW shipping was only ever a maximum of $15 (and normally $5-10) - this was for DeadZone. The stuff at their $150 was not light either - rule book, cards, gaming mat, thick card box for the game etc.
US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.
ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).
In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.
I used to allow international bidders on my ebay auctions and a lot of times when I did I would offer free shipping to the US and international bidders would have to pay exact shipping. The reason is that it would take more effort for me to ship internationally. To ship locally I could just weigh it, print a label and leave it for the lettercarrier to pick up. With international I'd have to drive to the post office and fill out forms making it more of a hassle for me. I had no problem not discounting shipping for the international bidders due to that hassle.
Ebay now will actually handle the international shipping. That said it's insanely expensive for the purchaser. A small Sediiton War figure I sold for $15 cost over an additional $20 for international shipping. That said shipping a sprue to Russia myself using the ebay print out only cost about $12.
But yeah, internationally got expensive. I didn't know it had nearly tripled at first and it cost me quite a bit on the first few things I sold that I had set fixed shipping at.
Kirasu wrote: I agree it's frustrating and possibly outrageous but I've not backed international kickstarters because of the same thing happening.
Seems to be the common place thing to do, ship domestically for free and then make international people pay crazy fees. In my own auctions I won't even ship to places like australia due to international shipping costs (unless you really want to pay 50$ for something small..)
Not saying it's right, but it's almost expected nowadays to pay out the nose for international shipping.
I wonder how Mantic manages to keep their shipping costs so low - they have free international shipping to both the UK and the US, and RoW shipping was only ever a maximum of $15 (and normally $5-10) - this was for DeadZone. The stuff at their $150 was not light either - rule book, cards, gaming mat, thick card box for the game etc.
Drifting a bit OT here, but I think it likely has something to do with Mr. Ronnie Renton's previous experience as GW's Global Marketing Director. He probably knows all the ins and outs of moving product between nations and has contacts to make that work that other companies, especially the smaller ones likely to use KS, don't have.
Back on topic, this should be interesting. I like the tactic Reaper is using to manage backer expectations and try to minimize the middle slump by doing the wave shipping pledge levels. Most KS campaigns have that curve in the middle because once the early birds are gone, there's no real incentive to pledge until the end. Now with it meaning your stuff will be here sooner, there's more push to at least get your place in line reserved, meaning that maybe they'll see a more even number of backers coming in throughout the campaign, even if there's still the huge surge of adjustments at the end still. It'd be very interesting to see that combined with backer-based stretch goals like Robotech and DeadZone had as well.
I'll be interested to see if more companies adopt this approach as it's very compelling on a variety of levels.
US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.
ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).
In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.
You are forgetting a few things. According to your theory, Reaper would be counting on a certain number of international backers to cover their costs. That is really a silly premise. The fact is international shipping is expensive and requires more labor/time per package to prepare customs forms and other paperwork. Add in additional costs to process claims for the increased rate of lost packages which occurs when shipping internationally (to include product replacement, packaging and additional shipping) and you can see there is additional risk shipping internationally, and risk is also cost. If amortizing those labor costs and risk is what you are talking about you may have a point, since they are not charging international backers for those costs, and instead only charging them actual shipping.
So not counting add ons, It seems like $150 is going to be the sweet spot for this KS? Core set plus expansion. Though I wonder if they will have more expansions since the current one is listed as expansion 1
If it gets high enough I've seen it somewhere there should be 3 total expansions. Honestly the sweet spot will probably still be $100 (due to sheer number of figures for cost) since the $50 expansions aren't going to get near the base value of half the normal pledge. That said picking one if it's got a good lump of large creatures could still be worthwhile.
I'm in for $100 right now. I'll probably add all dragons that aren't in an expansion and will definitely add the hill giants. The other add-ons have a model or two I like but since it's just 1-2 I can get it cheaper once it's produced.
I backed at $100 (Wave 3) and I plan to expand to maybe $200.
I like the material. The bendy nature sucks for a couple pieces, but it's nothing too bad. I'm using these mainly for D&D and for expanding my painting ability. It's fun to pickup something I have never painted (like an ogre or a bard) and go to town.
The detail isn't as crisp as a gw or resin model, but these are about $2 a piece. You will pay more for a gw bit.
Kirasu wrote: I thought Mantic has US distributors? in which the shipping costs is spread out amount the various parties involved.
They have a small number of US staff as well as distribution (e-figures handles all their US distro), and US dollar bank accounts.
They also handled EU distro for the secret weapon KS, so they've acted as local distributors themselves before as well. It's something they have a good handle on (CMoN has a good setup too, it seems).
Reaper doesn't seem too interested in the international market, and I don't think there's really much need for them to seek it out when they have more than enough domestic demand.
Doesn't stop me from wanting their product, though. :p
How did we spend your money in our last Kickstarter?
Update #30 · Oct 2, 2013 · 34 comments
We thought we would share this with you and who knows, it might even help someone with their own Kickstarter.
Please note there was money left over and that money was used for items not directly related to the KS like the new plastic injection machine, income taxes and infrastructure (shelves to store the remaining inventory and such).
US backers pay $100 for Core Set with free shipping. Of this amount, X is the actual value of the Core Set and Y is the cost of shipping. X+Y = $100.
ROW backers pay $100 plus actual shipping costs. So we pay X (the value of the Core Set), Y (the cost of US shipping) and then Z (international shipping).
In the latter case, actual costs to Reaper are X+Z but they charge X+Y+Z, pocketing the Y, which can then be used to amortize their other expenses.
You are forgetting a few things. According to your theory, Reaper would be counting on a certain number of international backers to cover their costs. That is really a silly premise. The fact is international shipping is expensive and requires more labor/time per package to prepare customs forms and other paperwork. Add in additional costs to process claims for the increased rate of lost packages which occurs when shipping internationally (to include product replacement, packaging and additional shipping) and you can see there is additional risk shipping internationally, and risk is also cost. If amortizing those labor costs and risk is what you are talking about you may have a point, since they are not charging international backers for those costs, and instead only charging them actual shipping.
Y = amortize the expenses on paying labor to fill out customs forms and insurance due to the abnormally high loss rate of international shipping.
So the profit margin on the kickstarter to put it in perspective was 1.5%. And the average shipping cost per backer was $24.44. Based on what it likely cost in bulk that means huge shipping costs incurred for shipping out of the US..
bbb wrote: That's a shocking level of transparency.
Reaper has always been good that way.
ironicsilence wrote: so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?
About that. I believe that they gave a small "Christmas Bonus" to the regular staffers following the calculations of cost. IIRC it was only a few thousand dollars each, which while nice - when you think about the amount of effort that various people had to put into it (missing vacations, long hours away from family during the campaign and again during several months worth of fulfillment) it wasn't much at all.
the point I was making on the profit amount was more around how small it was. I expected there to be more money floating around. Kind of under pins just how great a deal it was
Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.
Hulksmash wrote: Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.
im guessing that likely also including charges to move materials around the world, maybe even the cost to get new machines delivered? Reaper makes all there stuff outside of the country right? So they would have had to pay to get the stuff sent to the warehouse?
Tamereth wrote: Shipping fees are a worry, the import taxes I've paid on stuff like zombicide and the first bones were bad enough. If shipping ends up being $60 then suddenly the cost of the core set is doubled by the time it's delivered and the whole thing isn't such a great deal.
That being said I'm still in. I just wish reaper had a UK distributor for this stuff so that you could buy it in the shops over here. Is there even an online vendor that sells Bones in the UK?
SNM Stuff has just started to stock Reaper in the UK. No idea if you know them or not. I've gotten a pile of MIG washes and weathering powders and the like from them in the last year or two, and the guy is a nice bloke. He says he's also stocking Bones.
I knew the took a hit on shipping, but it looks like they calculated it pretty well, because even if they only made a 1.5% profit, they did get a lot of tooling done.
ironicsilence wrote: so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?
Which included $2.1m worth of new figure tooling paid for. Kickstarter's not "supposed" to be about raw profit. It's about things like that crowdfunded investment into new tooling.
Hulksmash wrote: Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.
im guessing that likely also including charges to move materials around the world, maybe even the cost to get new machines delivered? Reaper makes all there stuff outside of the country right? So they would have had to pay to get the stuff sent to the warehouse?
Yeah, "freight" would also include moving all the product from China to Texas.
Spirit Games http://www.spiritgames.co.uk/ -more of a B+M shop than an internet operation and the website looks like it, having said that, this is where I bought my one and only bones model from last week to see what its actually like (Frost Giant , £6 and a bit) , my brother went into the shop to buy it for me, they are still waiting on stocks for some of it but it does end up on the website and they are great people.
ironicsilence wrote: so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?
Which included $2.1m worth of new figure tooling paid for. Kickstarter's not "supposed" to be about raw profit. It's about things like that crowdfunded investment into new tooling.
Yeah, this is the big deal. They got 2.1m in investment capital for $0 financing costs. That's huge in business. Without kickstarter, that would all have been a loan which would have had financing, etc.
So, as backers, we basically helped them increase the size of their business dramatically in exchange for a bunch of cheap minis. That is win-win for everyone. It also pushes against the claim that people like Reaper shouldn't kickstart. No, they are a small business that is growing because they use this medium. I imagine that creating this kind of increase of capacity would not be possible through traditional means.
I'm shocked by how drastic the rate of new backers dropped off. I expected them to be at 10k by now. It's still a success and I'm sure there'll be another 10k joining by the time this is over, but it'll be a MUCH slower climb.
ironicsilence wrote: so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?
Which included $2.1m worth of new figure tooling paid for. Kickstarter's not "supposed" to be about raw profit. It's about things like that crowdfunded investment into new tooling.
Yeah, this is the big deal. They got 2.1m in investment capital for $0 financing costs. That's huge in business. Without kickstarter, that would all have been a loan which would have had financing, etc.
So, as backers, we basically helped them increase the size of their business dramatically in exchange for a bunch of cheap minis. That is win-win for everyone. It also pushes against the claim that people like Reaper shouldn't kickstart. No, they are a small business that is growing because they use this medium. I imagine that creating this kind of increase of capacity would not be possible through traditional means.
Its a shame more companies dont release similar KS data, its neat to see a company use the money for what it should be used and not run the kickstarter as a vehicle for preorders
bbb wrote: I'm shocked by how drastic the rate of new backers dropped off. I expected them to be at 10k by now. It's still a success and I'm sure there'll be another 10k joining by the time this is over, but it'll be a MUCH slower climb.
The population of people crazy enough to do this is only so big. We get a huge spike when it launches, then a slow climb to the end and then a frenzy of backers in the last 24-48.
Hulksmash wrote: Oh I agree. The profit margin was ridiculously tiny on this. The gains are all long term, not something they could show as revenue last year. I'm shocked by the nearly half a million they spent to ship to less than 20k people.
im guessing that likely also including charges to move materials around the world, maybe even the cost to get new machines delivered? Reaper makes all there stuff outside of the country right? So they would have had to pay to get the stuff sent to the warehouse?
All metal is done in house. They have a single machine in house, which as far as I know has not been put to use for production yet as they are still in the learning process of figuring out the ins and outs of operating plastic manufacturing. Long term goals are to move production (most, all...) to Texas - but as they mentioned in their notes on the bottom, that one machine would need to run 24/7 for almost 2 years in order to complete the production on KS1.
The Egyptian stuff is starting to draw me- also the lion and lioness. More zombies are also useful, but I'll have to think about whether or not to up my pledge. The dragon turtle still turns me off from that whole level- I don't think I'd even want to open it in a box.
Glenmorray wrote: I dont think the miniatures look very nice at all. That obviously must just be me then as they're doing so well.
It depends - do you mean in terms of sculpt quality or material quality? The material's crispness is comparable to metal, it just photographs terribly. Also far too flexible and subject to a lot of bending in transit (that has to be fixed by boiling). A good comparison: http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/47477-bathalian-bones-vs-metal-challenge/
The sculpts really are just a mixed bag - a huge number of sculptors across several genres over a great many years! I do quite like the variety, but even I'd say there were a few duds in wave 1. They are also mostly single-piece (apart from some of the larger ones, which still have a relatively small number of pieces), which limits the sculpting possibilities somewhat. As someone who hates messing around with superglue, pins, puttying cracks etc. I rather welcome it!
Part of the S&H issue for international backers is just the difference between "actual shipping" (as in a personally addressed box, weighed and sized individually) or "however much a flat rate box of that size costs".
I've had a package half the size of a shoebox sent to me from the US for $6, which contained a couple dozen figures.
A flat rate *medium* box from the US to Canada is $40.
Add in the possibility of getting further dinged at the boarder, and I don't think it's unreasonable for S&H to be a consideration.
I'm glad to hear a calculator is coming, that should alleviate at least some of the concerns.
ironicsilence wrote: so basically KS 1 returned a 54k profit that they used to reinvest in the business?
Which included $2.1m worth of new figure tooling paid for. Kickstarter's not "supposed" to be about raw profit. It's about things like that crowdfunded investment into new tooling.
Yeah, this is the big deal. They got 2.1m in investment capital for $0 financing costs. That's huge in business. Without kickstarter, that would all have been a loan which would have had financing, etc.
So, as backers, we basically helped them increase the size of their business dramatically in exchange for a bunch of cheap minis. That is win-win for everyone. It also pushes against the claim that people like Reaper shouldn't kickstart. No, they are a small business that is growing because they use this medium. I imagine that creating this kind of increase of capacity would not be possible through traditional means.
I agree fully. Bones was/is exactly the kind of thing KS should be used for (in contrast to the glorified preorder system that KS has largely become). We didn't just buy a discounted product that was going to be released in any case, we funded a major expansion of manufacturing capacity.
Glenmorray wrote: I dont think the miniatures look very nice at all. That obviously must just be me then as they're doing so well.
Yeah, they really suck.
That's a bit melodramatic, Azazel . People are allowed to not like the figures! I looked at the Bugbear from KS1 in Bones material in a blister in the store... then went and ordered 2 metal ones online. It's not for everybody, but I agree that the purple wurm in particular that you posted a pic of is a good fit for it, as well as some other large / organic figures.
Another one of their big metal dragons making the switch to Bones. It looks like they are definitely looking to swap all of those over by the time this is done with.
See, I want that Dragon Turtle, but I don't want most of the other stuff in that random assortment. Especially that stone giant or whatever that skinny dude is.
The Nefsokar avatar or whatever is cool. Wanted to get one of those for a while.
Stretch goals seem like they are going to SLLLLOOOOOWWWW down at this point.
Not too worried yet. Most the pledges are still at only $115 - base line package and one option. The last campaign the average pledge was $194 - so even with just that figure and no additional backers it would add in another $752,317 - enough to cover two more freebie stretch goals and probably 3 or 4 more option stretch goals.
I mean, it is already crazy town numbers and we are just barely over 24 hours into the campaign.
Also, it still hasn't been picked up by the regular geek news sites other than Bleeding Cool. Their are 3 significant news stories which are on the way, and those should help to elevate the profile of the campaign significantly as well.
There should be more stuff for core.
I'll be keeping my 100 tier, but if the quantities don't improve, I'll probably drop & get some of them from shops next year.
---
On Bones 1 and Europe: Does anyone know a good online store that carries all / most of the Reapers bones line?
I'm interested in Giants and other big guys, but can't find an Euro-shop that carries them. :(
I'm pledging because it's a good deal, sure. But I'm also pledging because I'd like Reaper to continue to expand their infrastructure in the USA and purchase more machines and hire more US workers. Especially after that Thank You video from the first Kickstarter.
There should be more stuff for core.
I'll be keeping my 100 tier, but if the quantities don't improve, I'll probably drop & get some of them from shops next year.
---
On Bones 1 and Europe: Does anyone know a good online store that carries all / most of the Reapers bones line?
I'm interested in Giants and other big guys, but can't find an Euro-shop that carries them. :(
It's actually Free/Paid, Paid, Half-free, Paid...
The Option Expansion is just as important for some people as the regular base package. I know a few people who are skipping the regular $100 package and picking up the $50 instead and adding options on that. Those people would feel left out if the $50 option isn't fleshed out a bit more.
The other option of stuffing the Expansion option into the regular base line would mean more stuff in that package of course, but it would also mean that we would probably be looking at straight $250K stretch goals right now. Instead, they broke things up a bit in order to make each step a little smaller and shift funds around a bit in terms of the overall backing and pledges.
I'm not really worried, its only day 2. I'd assume that the core set will in the end shake out to be similar to the vampire in total models. I'm fine with more paid options. I think Reaper set the bar high with the first KS and have no doubt they will try to match or exceed it in total awesomeness
Also on shipping for ROW, not sure if this was posted anywhere but from reaper:
"Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another interesting note from reaper on ROW shipping in regards to KS1 totals
"For a little more clarification, CA/ROW -- about 25% of the backers -- cost about 70% of the shipping number."
Since things have slowed down, in the next day or two I would imagine that the dollar amount will grow faster than the new backer numbers due to people deciding what options to add on.
Even at 100K stretch goals, assuming this at least equals the previous one, there will still be 20+ to be unlocked at least.
It will still have the mad spike at the end and the more media that picks up on it the more the number will rise too.
Sinful Hero wrote: 70% of the shipping from a quarter of the backers?! That's insane! No wonder they're putting the cost of shipping on the international backers.
I certainly hope that they investigate non-USPS shipping options. Particularly with discounts for shipping huge amounts, it should be possible to ship for much less than the general shipping cost calculator on the USPS website.
ironicsilence wrote: "For a little more clarification, CA/ROW -- about 25% of the backers -- cost about 70% of the shipping number."
I feel this is little misleading. US shipping was free last time too, while ROW backers paid $25. So we contributed a lot more into the shipping pot, too.
I'm also wondering how much they ended up spending to try to generate a solution for the Canadian shipping. Seems like they were misled, and had to put a lot more into getting everything sorted, which will have cost money. They also have that all sorted out already this time.
I think the most interesting thing is that 25% of the backers were ROW.
And calling an additional 150k today slowing down is a bit nuts. We're only noticing because of the distance between goals. At this point every goal currently posted will be finished off by sometime friday (accounting for more drop off tomorrow). I'm honestly trying to only look at the actual kickstarter page once a day. Since until the last two days I don't see it moving to crazy. granted, they did manage to do a little under a third of what they did last time, and in under 48 hours.
On Bones 1 and Europe: Does anyone know a good online store that carries all / most of the Reapers bones line?
I'm interested in Giants and other big guys, but can't find an Euro-shop that carries them. :(
It's actually Free/Paid, Paid, Half-free, Paid...
The Option Expansion is just as important for some people as the regular base package. I know a few people who are skipping the regular $100 package and picking up the $50 instead and adding options on that. Those people would feel left out if the $50 option isn't fleshed out a bit more.
The other option of stuffing the Expansion option into the regular base line would mean more stuff in that package of course, but it would also mean that we would probably be looking at straight $250K stretch goals right now. Instead, they broke things up a bit in order to make each step a little smaller and shift funds around a bit in terms of the overall backing and pledges.
I feel this is little misleading. US shipping was free last time too, while ROW backers paid $25. So we contributed a lot more into the shipping pot, too.
Pointing out that ROW paid $111,000 in shipping and cost Reaper $303,000 in shipping does not help the ROW cause.
Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.
Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others
Its sad, i would love to join, but beetween the high shipping costs and my damaged wallet after deadzone, i will have to pass this up. Maybe i get a minimal pledge at the end, and add some dragons (small boxes, small shipping?).
But well, i have enough miniatures to paint and play for the next 10 years after Reaper and Deadzone KSs (and Warpath is coming soon ).
ironicsilence wrote: Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.
Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others
That's not the issue at all, jeez. Of course we'd pay what it costs. But as it stands we pay more, because we pay US shipping (built into the base pledge) and full international shipping on top of that. If Reaper just confirmed that they'd drop our shipping cost by the $10 or so difference (guesstimated from Bones 1 data), I'd consider it perfectly fair.
so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
I guess that also assumes that when Reaper comes out with ROW shipping pricing that it doesnt take into account whatever the amount in the base pledge is for US shipping.
I would be a little bothered if Reaper did include the cost of shipping in the price of the pledge because at the point US shipping is no longer free. Not to mention from a ROW stand point, not sure how taxes and custom fees really work, but you guys get taxed based on the value of the package? So if Reaper lists it at say 100USD, if that includes say 10USD to cover US shipping, then you could would also have to pay taxes on the money included for shipping. Which doesnt seem cool
Again seems like something for Reaper to add some clarity too
ironicsilence wrote: Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.
Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others
That's not the issue at all, jeez. Of course we'd pay what it costs. But as it stands we pay more, because we pay US shipping (built into the base pledge) and full international shipping on top of that. If Reaper just confirmed that they'd drop our shipping cost by the $10 or so difference (guesstimated from Bones 1 data), I'd consider it perfectly fair.
That was the point I was originally making, which seems to have been missed by most people commenting about how RoW backers are being little whiners
I have no issue paying for shipping - I was pretty sure even before it shipped it would have cost Reaper way more to send out my Bones I than I paid as a RoW backer, however, It is a little bit galling to have US backers point and laugh and tell me I deserve to pay loads for shipping when my base pledge is paying for their free US shipping (and/or going towards Reaper's general KS profits), while I then foot the entire RoW shipping cost.
And let's face it, printing off a computer generated overseas customs form and sticking it on the side of the box isn't exactly a huge cost sink...
ironicsilence wrote: so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
I guess that also assumes that when Reaper comes out with ROW shipping pricing that it doesnt take into account whatever the amount in the base pledge is for US shipping.
That's about it. They should just clarify and I'll either drop out (if ROW is actually subsidizing US shipping) or stay in (if not). Either way, I'll stop complaining.
So, having finally combined the two sets of numbers at our disposal, it looks to me that Reaper "earned" $35 less per pledge on average from ROW backers compared to US backers. This assumes all ROW backers paid the $25 shipping surcharge, it doesn't take into account "free" Canadian shipping that fell through.
We cannot know whether this was actually a loss or just less gain but it is a huge hit and I applaud Reaper for eating it. I think it would have been reasonable to ask ROW backers for extra money or offer a refund.
ironicsilence wrote: so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".
highlord tamburlaine wrote: See, I want that Dragon Turtle, but I don't want most of the other stuff in that random assortment. Especially that stone giant or whatever that skinny dude is.
The Nefsokar avatar or whatever is cool. Wanted to get one of those for a while.
Stretch goals seem like they are going to SLLLLOOOOOWWWW down at this point.
The dragon turtle is one of the only ones I really don't want from that expansion
Still holding out hope for a Sophie to be included in the KS at some point, the 2007 reapercon one is still doing rounds as one of my slaanesh princes.
ironicsilence wrote: so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".
I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping
It is a little bit galling to have US backers point and laugh and tell me I deserve to pay loads for shipping when my base pledge is paying for their free US shipping (and/or going towards Reaper's general KS profits), while I then foot the entire RoW shipping cost.
Show me, exactly, where this happened. Otherwise, drop the hyperbole.
And let's face it, printing off a computer generated overseas customs form and sticking it on the side of the box isn't exactly a huge cost sink...
Because that is all that is involved in shipping a few thousand packages overseas, right?
ROW backers don't have any facts yet about shipping at all really. So, this is all, in fact, whinging. If Reaper comes out and says that your shipping is subsidizing mine, I'll be behind you 100% Until then this is all noise. Unfounded, unnecessary, noise.
~Eric
Edit: And just so we're clear, I think Reaper should absolutely be looking into a partner (several?) to help with the shipping mess. We just have no idea what is happening yet.
ironicsilence wrote: so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".
I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping
In general, the cost to mail your backers their rewards (postage, envelopes, etc.) should be taken into account when you set your goal and price your rewards.
Keep in mind that unless you specify otherwise, backers can pledge to your project from anywhere in the world. It’s always fun to have a backer from across the globe, but it can also mean paying for international postage to send rewards overseas.
If that’s something you’ve worked into your project’s budget, great. As you build your rewards, though, you’ll see that you have the option to charge an additional shipping fee to international backers. To do that, simply select “Shipping anywhere in the world,” when you add a reward, then, “Add fee.” The additional price will be included in the reward description, and international backers will be prompted to enter the additional amount to their pledge.
ironicsilence wrote: so the issue you have is that you believe that reaper has the US cost built into the pledge amount, thus making ROW pay for it right? Has that been confirmed as true? Or has anyone asked Reaper about it?
Erm... KS's rules say US projects must have free US shipping. Even if it didn't, any company offering free shipping has to get that money from somewhere. Reaper aren't going to take out a loan, or dip into their bank accounts to pay for it - they factor in that cost to the base price of their KS products... Just like any other company offering "free shipping".
I didnt know KS says you have to have free US shipping
I have just double checked that, and it looks like I may be misinformed on that point.
ironicsilence wrote: Didn't know anyone is trying to "smear" ROW backers, I would have thought that some of the data provided by reaper might help ROW folks understand why they are paying actual shipping charges. Its a lot easier for reaper to eat (or build in) the US cost since shipping within the US is relatively cheap. Not sure how they would be able eat the cost for the ROW.
Is the issue at hand for the ROW folks that your paying the actual shipping vs a flat rate? Seems like actual shipping would be best as if it was flat rate then you would likely be paying more then your shipping could cost to cover off others
The costs keep adding up. For basic 100$ tier, I would add 80$ postage (reapers-estimation, not mine) + my local VAT of 24% (for both) = 220 dollars. Bit over Twice the amount US-customer will pay.
If this was mantic-kickstarter, Id pay 100$+15 dollar postage & that's it.
So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping
If this was mantic-kickstarter, Id pay 100$+15 dollar postage & that's it.
Mantic is UK-based.
They had also US presence.
Their US customer payed same amount for postage as UK-natives. AND their RoTW customers (outside US) payed Flat 15$ postage. And that 15$ postage included 3 shipments. Winter, spring and now fall.
To be fair, Mantic isn't really a good comparison. But CMON is. They have an EU shipping hub and take care of all the customs/import hassles for you. and their KS can be fairly involved with many options (Relic Knights!) It can be done.
Taarnak wrote: Show me, exactly, where this happened. Otherwise, drop the hyperbole.
I don't particularly feel like going through and "naming and shaming" to be entirely honest with you. Though you could always have a look at your own reply to see how RoW backers are facing vitriol for daring to suggest that they would like more information on shipping costs and pointing out that they are, as far as we have the information, also paying in the built in "free US shipping fee" on top of any RoW shipping.
SilverMK2 wrote: Because that is all that is involved in shipping a few thousand packages overseas, right?
Well, last time they also had to wait for a series of magic trucks to collect them too. But as far as I am aware that was the only "extra" work they had to do above and beyond posting within the US...
ROW backers don't have any facts yet about shipping at all really.
I don't think that is being debated, but thanks for stating it.
So, this is all, in fact, whinging.
Ah, I see, pointing out potential sources of injustice in how postage may be paid for is whinging...
If Reaper comes out and says that your shipping is subsidizing mine, I'll be behind you 100%
They more than likely won't be saying that. They more than likely will go down one of two route: RoW backers will pay full shipping costs (as seems to be their current design), or RoW backers will pay full shipping costs, minus some to be determined amount (ie the cost of postage to the US, minus any internal processing fee that everyone has built into the cost of their base pledge).
Until then this is all noise. Unfounded, unnecessary, noise.
So... stop mashing your keyboard and go read a book or something?
Edit: And just so we're clear, I think Reaper should absolutely be looking into a partner (several?) to help with the shipping mess. We just have no idea what is happening yet.
It would be nice if they got an EU distributor at least, but that is added cost and effort which, depending on the number of backers in some regions, may cost them (and thus us) as much as just sending things out and charging the appropriate postage.
thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
I'm just going to post this here to add my views. I'm not moaning as I know what's in store when I pledge on a US project (which is why I don't really back them anymore, I really wanted cthulhu wars but whoaa not with that postage lol!)
Just to repeat I'm not moaning I was actually very pleased with my shipping and then customs from Bones1. Also I think we should wait untill they actually post ROW shipping costes (unless they have already? ).
overtyrant wrote: This is the thing I don't get (not trying to moan just curious). So I'm a U.S backer and I pledge for the game if you live in the U.S you don't pay shipping because its included the pledge. I then pledge for the same thing as an international backer I pay the same amount plus shipping. This feels like non U.S backers are paying for there shipping as well as there own. Wouldn't it make more sense to lower the international shipping by $X and charge $X for U.S backers for shipping or lower the pledge by $X and charge U.S backers $X for shipping.
The thing is though, a parcel can cost $5 to ship from Florida to California, but the same thing costs $60 to ship to the UK.
Then lower the pledge by $5.00 and charge $5.00 shipping for U.S backers. Or lower international shipping by $5.00 and charge $5.00 for U.S backers (though it would still be to expensive). It's more of a visual thing for me (I know im nitpicking now lol) I don't like to pay for other peoples shipping. I hope you can resolve this by being able to ship from within the E.U as the cost would come down for shipping then and we would not worry about customs (out of you control of course).
(This is my main reason why I don't back K.S projects from the U.S anymore that can't ship from the E.U)
Something worth noting is that by not including S&H up front, there are a couple of effects;
1) Shipping isn't 'artificially inflating' the current amount backed. A lot of KS's with hundreds or thousands of international backers might see a 6 figure bump in their 'funding' total, whereas this one is (at least currently) pure items, aside from possibly a few people who decided to hedge a bit of cash towards S&H or other costs ahead of time.
2) If it's not incorporated until the campaign ends (as in, people don't have to pay (or even know for sure what they're paying until it ends) until the Pledge Manager goes up, they don't get dinged by KS/Amazon taking about 10% as their cut. Those savings alone could be *massive*.
Note that I'm not trying to vilify anyone. I'm merely pointing something out. The latter of which could be a clever way to avoid getting dinged by the system.
adhuin wrote: The costs keep adding up. For basic 100$ tier, I would add 80$ postage (reapers-estimation, not mine) + my local VAT of 24% (for both) = 220 dollars. Bit over Twice the amount US-customer will pay.
Yeah, it isn't fun when you add in shipping
I was thinking originally I might put down $200 in items, but I don't really want to have to pay $40 in VAT, plus $16 customs charge, plus whatever postage ends up being
For Bones I, the value of the shipment was just set at $100, regardless of how many extras you put down, which meant a maximum VAT charge of only $20, plus $16 customs charge, plus $25 shipping charge, which was much nicer, especially if shipping really is going to be about $80 on top...
ironicsilence wrote: So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping
That sounds like a really good idea.
Maybe some non-USA based user could do that, so we don't have to run in too many circles in here?
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
This is very true. Most of the work is getting it to leave the current country. Once it is in the destination country, it is just a domestic delivery. It seems much easier (and cheaper) to get stuff from the UK to the US than vice versa. (at least that has been my experience on eBay)
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
This is very true. Most of the work is getting it to leave the current country. Once it is in the destination country, it is just a domestic delivery. It seems much easier (and cheaper) to get stuff from the UK to the US than vice versa. (at least that has been my experience on eBay)
Do you not have to pay customs at all on these as I've had my eyes on a few things on eBay over time that is from the US but had not bidded because of this.
Forar wrote: Something worth noting is that by not including S&H up front, there are a couple of effects;
1) Shipping isn't 'artificially inflating' the current amount backed. A lot of KS's with hundreds or thousands of international backers might see a 6 figure bump in their 'funding' total, whereas this one is (at least currently) pure items, aside from possibly a few people who decided to hedge a bit of cash towards S&H or other costs ahead of time.
2) If it's not incorporated until the campaign ends (as in, people don't have to pay (or even know for sure what they're paying until it ends) until the Pledge Manager goes up, they don't get dinged by KS/Amazon taking about 10% as their cut. Those savings alone could be *massive*.
Note that I'm not trying to vilify anyone. I'm merely pointing something out. The latter of which could be a clever way to avoid getting dinged by the system.
It would save 5% on the shipping, since presumably there would be a 5% charge for paypal or whatever is used to add on shipping.
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
This is very true. Most of the work is getting it to leave the current country. Once it is in the destination country, it is just a domestic delivery. It seems much easier (and cheaper) to get stuff from the UK to the US than vice versa. (at least that has been my experience on eBay)
Do you not have to pay customs at all on these as I've had my eyes on a few things on eBay over time that is from the US but had not bidded because of this.
I have never once paid customs, but also I haven't had massive purchases either. So I can't imagine I have ever had a single purchase over 50$, so that may be part of it.
The buyer is responsible for paying customs duties, if any.
In general, packages with a value of less than US$200 will not require any duty charges.
If multiple packages from the same location are received in the same day, the value will be summed and duties are owed if the value is over US$200.
Imported package under US$2000 entering the country through International Mail enter as Informal Entry and all paperwork and the USPS and Customs Service can handle processing.
Packages whose declared value is under US$200 (US$100 if being sent as a gift to someone other than the purchaser) will generally be cleared without any additional paperwork prepared by Customs. However, Customs always reserves the right to require a formal entry for any importation and generally exercises this option if there is something unusual about the importation, or if important documents such as an invoice or bill of sale do not accompany the item.
So if there is no paperwork, there is no 5$ fee or costs period.
I think that is why small stuff slips through and large stuff gets the customs-hammer in and out of countries.
It's a shame that in a KS of such awesome models the overriding discussion is that of ROW postage. Its also a shame Reaper haven't allayed any fears although i suspect they are somewhat engaged.
For my part i am holding onto my Earlybird $100 pledge till i find out
A: my customs charges from Bones I (Borderforce didnt believe Reapers valuation of the consignment)
B: Reaper come out and advise how much shipping will actually be.
Nice as the models are there will be a point at which although it will be financially viable backing the kickstarter will not be financially desirable.
Still, till then ill keep adding to my 'in my head' pledge, though i must say Cinders isn't really grabbing me atm.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's also a shame that they cannot arrange a ROW/EU distributor. Knock CMON for many things regarding their Kickstarters but that was one thing they got spot on.
ironicsilence wrote: So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping
That sounds like a really good idea.
Maybe some non-USA based user could do that, so we don't have to run in too many circles in here?
Thanks!
So...
Please refrain from having ROW shipping questions dominate this thread until such time as someone asks Reaper and/or they provide some clarity on the issue.
I was just thinking the same thing on the distributor front, not sure how the logistics of it would work or what the cost would be the find a ROW partner
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
I can't remember what size the Bones I box was, but I just put some approximate dimensions (50x30x15 cm) and a weight of 5kg into this site, and it seems that the cheapest option it comes up with is £26.35 to ship from the UK to the US with free collection from the place of shipment
I can't believe that an industrial shipment of several hundred items couldn't be done cheaper with some kind of business postal rate.
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
I can't remember what size the Bones I box was, but I just put some approximate dimensions (50x30x15 cm) and a weight of 5kg into this site, and it seems that the cheapest option it comes up with is £26.35 to ship from the UK to the US with free collection from the place of shipment
I can't believe that an industrial shipment of several hundred items couldn't be done cheaper with some kind of business postal rate.
at the risk of getting BANED by alph...I put that same box into USPS.com and got $75 USD for shipping or roughly twice what you would pay to ship it to me.
Back on topic, are there any models that jump out that people most want to see included in this KS?
Breotan wrote: Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't havto ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.
The Bones stuff I have is VERY soft as in you can bend it. It is more like a what I consider a toy plastic instead of a miniature plastic BUT the detail isn't that bad. I would consider it worse than Sedition Wars but it depends on what you like I suppose.
That bad? I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
Breotan wrote: Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't havto ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.
The Bones stuff I have is VERY soft as in you can bend it. It is more like a what I consider a toy plastic instead of a miniature plastic BUT the detail isn't that bad. I would consider it worse than Sedition Wars but it depends on what you like I suppose.
That bad? I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
As someone who has sedition wars and got in on Bones 1, I MUCH prefer Bones. Bones are just fantastic for painting IMO, plus have easier to fix mould lines. I'm not exactly a mould line removal specialist or anything, but I couldn't get most of the mould lines off of the sedition wars models without messing up the model itself...
The details on Bones are quite good as well (I'd have to do some side-by-side comparison with SW to give you a perspective on that comparison), especially for the insanely low price you're paying in this KS. Bones in their pure whitey form don't look so good, but once you get some paint on them then the details start to pop.
Breotan wrote: Could someone please define "high-quality plastic"? I shouldn't havto ask but after Mantic and McVey, I really do.
The Bones stuff I have is VERY soft as in you can bend it. It is more like a what I consider a toy plastic instead of a miniature plastic BUT the detail isn't that bad. I would consider it worse than Sedition Wars but it depends on what you like I suppose.
That bad? I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
Value mainly.. I will agree some of the sculpts are a little rough, but others are pretty awesome in their own right..
I found in the first batch that there was a handful of "bad" models. Either didn't look very good or was too bendy but overall there was way more awesome stuff then sub par and for the price that's all I ask for. When your paying 50 cents a model I can deal with some not being great
No. I've seen my fair share of Heroclix models, and Bones' quality is much higher than 'clix. Kind of like comparing 'clix to green army men. In terms of bend... meh. It's not much of an issue in any of the models I got from Bones I, other than a couple of the very large models which I plan on pinning, and would have had to do even if they were metal.
I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
The sculpts are reasonable for the most part. Plus there is the promise of more to come. Hell, if all you want is a couple of the larger models and a handful of the regular sculpts, you are still getting them pretty cheap even if you throw all the other stuff in the bin.
Taarnak wrote: Show me, exactly, where this happened. Otherwise, drop the hyperbole.
I don't particularly feel like going through and "naming and shaming" to be entirely honest with you. Though you could always have a look at your own reply to see how RoW backers are facing vitriol for daring to suggest that they would like more information on shipping costs and pointing out that they are, as far as we have the information, also paying in the built in "free US shipping fee" on top of any RoW shipping.
If you don't have the desire/ability to point out that exact thing, don't bring it up. It never happened.
My vitriol stems not from your wanting fair shipping rates without subsidizing my shipping (which I agree with), but from the incessant insisting that it will/has happen(ed) with exactly zero proof. We can do all kinds of fun numbers games to make either position look correct. All this is doing is clogging this thread and will never get any of us anywhere. Someone needs to ask on the KS page, and we all need to let it go here.
Because that is all that is involved in shipping a few thousand packages overseas, right?
Well, last time they also had to wait for a series of magic trucks to collect them too. But as far as I am aware that was the only "extra" work they had to do above and beyond posting within the US...
Customs forms alone would likely take hundreds of man hours. Then they were trying to set up as exporters through UPS, which undoubtedly took a goodly amount of time. Especially when you factor in the delays from UPS with that process.
Ah, I see, pointing out potential sources of injustice in how postage may be paid for is whinging...
Nope, pointing it out over and over to the people who have nothing to do with it, all without a shred of proof, is whinging. Or crying wolf, perhaps. Either way, it's not helpful.
If Reaper comes out and says that your shipping is subsidizing mine, I'll be behind you 100%
They more than likely won't be saying that. They more than likely will go down one of two route: RoW backers will pay full shipping costs (as seems to be their current design), or RoW backers will pay full shipping costs, minus some to be determined amount (ie the cost of postage to the US, minus any internal processing fee that everyone has built into the cost of their base pledge).
Yep. But they haven't made an habit of ripping people off, so I would not assume the worst. Just asking will get some sort of response, and if enough bring it up, they will have to give some sort of hard facts.
Edit: And just so we're clear, I think Reaper should absolutely be looking into a partner (several?) to help with the shipping mess. We just have no idea what is happening yet.
It would be nice if they got an EU distributor at least, but that is added cost and effort which, depending on the number of backers in some regions, may cost them (and thus us) as much as just sending things out and charging the appropriate postage.
Yeah, I don't know, but I bet they'll look into it if it gets asked about enough on the KS page.
I'm done with this issue on the thread. Please feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss further.
~Eric
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: Apparently this came across as a polite suggestion that I hope everyone followed?
ironicsilence wrote: So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping
That sounds like a really good idea.
Maybe some non-USA based user could do that, so we don't have to run in too many circles in here?
Thanks!
So...
Please refrain from having ROW shipping questions dominate this thread until such time as someone asks Reaper and/or they provide some clarity on the issue.
Thanks!
Sorry Alph, I replied before reading the entire thread. Won't happen again.
I think bones is my second favorite material of all time for anything larger than infantry.
Number one is resin, for the absolute level of detail that just can't be captured by any other process. Metal sucks compared to resin. I can't really stand metal anymore.
Polystyrene plastic is great, but is obviously very limited due to the undercuts. Even on complex multipart kits, the end result is kinda bleah on the detail (GW Chimera, for example).
Bones is cheaper, lighter, easier to assemble/paint, and looks better than any large plastic kit, often with the same level of detail.
When it comes to infantry, I'd go polystyrene hands down but I've been spoiled recently by the insane quality of Mierce's resin infantry...
I own dozens and dozens of large resin beasties from Mierce to Maxmini to Micro Art to Scibor to Ultraforge to etc etc, and a giant pile of big monsters from Bones I, and I love them both in different ways.
Taarnak wrote: Customs forms alone would likely take hundreds of man hours.
Just to reply to this specific point; you mail merge customs forms the same way you to print out shipping labels. It takes about 3 extra seconds to put the customs sticker on the box
Taarnak wrote: Customs forms alone would likely take hundreds of man hours.
Just to reply to this specific point; you mail merge customs forms the same way you to print out shipping labels. It takes about 3 extra seconds to put the customs sticker on the box
What makes it more complicated than that is each region has their own way of doing their customs paperwork.. So it changes from region to region.. When I worked for fedex I had to carry a bible of regulations with me just to make sure each package is done correctly..
decker_cky wrote: It would save 5% on the shipping, since presumably there would be a 5% charge for paypal or whatever is used to add on shipping.
Paypal's fees are a hell of a lot less than 5%. A cursory Googling indicates it's more like 1.9 to 2.9% with an essentially negligable fee (30 cents). Less than 3% seems pretty awesome compared to ~10%.
Like, that could be tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a campaign of this size. That's not chump change when the 'profit' (above and beyond the vast expansion of their business) was only 50k or so with the first round.
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
I keep seeing people say this, but if you mail things first-class it's actually still reasonable to ship to the UK.
If you ship Priority Mail, it's expensive.
If you ship Priority Mail Flat Rate Box, it's insanely expensive!!
But those are not the only options... first class has worked great for me several times since the price increase when I switched to it.
Breotan wrote: That bad? I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
The quality of detail on Bones is very good. Some of the sculpts aren't great but when they are the material holds the details very well. They are very soft and bendy but for many people that's a selling point. Sure, there are people who love Bones for painting. But me, I love that I can throw them in my bag and not worry about them breaking apart. The worst they'll do is bend out of shape. I don't even consider Bones to be models, I consider them toys. Sure, I often use them to replace my models, but they don't demand the respect and care that I have to take with the rest of my figures.
I've sacrificed models before to my D&D group. People have squeezed and broken plastic figures, lots of greasy fingers have gone all over the models, and things get dropped all the time. But when I bring my box of Bones I don't have to worry about any of that.
When I have children (and they're old enough not to choke on the things) they're going to get to play with my Bones collection. I won't have to worry about the things breaking because they're so durable and bendy. They're like training wheels and later I can give them access to the real models
ruff wrote: I agree lets talk about all the minis we are going to buy and not paint anytime soon.. Blightfang looks awesome..
Personally I really like the look of the "lords of darkness" (not so much the vampire though ). There are a couple of the "heros and villains" that look cool, but I am not sure if there are enough that I like to put in for them. The Kraken looks cool, but not sure I would use it for anything other than decoration . Have to say I genuinely don't like anything in the expansion set, other than the larger Egyptian model.
ruff wrote: I agree lets talk about all the minis we are going to buy and not paint anytime soon.. Blightfang looks awesome..
Personally I really like the look of the "lords of darkness" (not so much the vampire though ). There are a couple of the "heros and villains" that look cool, but I am not sure if there are enough that I like to put in for them. The Kraken looks cool, but not sure I would use it for anything other than decoration . Have to say I genuinely don't like anything in the expansion set, other than the larger Egyptian model.
I am definitely getting a kraken.. I have always wanted one of them and never had the chance.. Now is the time.. It will go good with my 20,000 leagues under the sea model by Pegasus Hobbies..
Talking about the minis? Why not! Going down the purple list (and beyond!):
Spoilered cause why waste space with my lame opinions
Spoiler:
I like the thing with the scythe in the top row the skeleton on the throne, sort of like half-ish of the humanoid characters (the one on the bottom right *almost* looks like a Drizz't).
24 bonus figures? I may use them to test paint schemes out for models I like more. They'll also be great for D&D if I ever get a group going again.
Heroes 1 : i like the rogue looking dude, the sword chick, and the wizard.
I'm not even sure what pathfinder is, but the minis look pretty well proportioned and sharp. The ankheg, grell, (is that other thing a devourer/brain thing whatever you call them), and the roper thing (looks like a stalagmite).
Gnolls & bugbears, shambling dead... I could take or leave both, but extra minis for D&D can't hurt. I like the statures and crates.
Beast mode looks ok-ish, the Chimera and what is that a goron or something... those look nice. Not fussed over pathfinders 2.
Lesser demons might be useful, although none of them are impressing me aesthetically, but its a small picture. I like the centaurs, the fairy, and the dryad/nymph especialy. The savage worlds stuff I could take or leave (but seeing it closer may sway me).
Pulp action isn't tugging at my heartstrings very much, the swamp things kind of do but its mostly that big guy.
The dragon hatchlings, however, are pretty awesome.
The dragons are all cool, I may have to pick a favorite and get one before its over (or possibly the one in the expansion 1).
As for the expansion 1... I like that it has a lot of big stuff... I'm just not sure I want enough of the specific large models to want the whole set.
Stretch goals seem like they are going to SLLLLOOOOOWWWW down at this point.
It was bound to 'slow' a bit, but the last 2 days on this one are going to be ridiculous!
Just do the calculus with all the rest which will be in there eventually versus regular retail estimates. The dragon turtle will likely be a $20 or 25. The small figures $2 or 3 each. Some, like the derro are something that I have been wanting to get 20 or 30 of. I have a bunch of metal, but havent bothered to convert them due to the difficulty in carving the weapons off. Bones makes them more feasible in that regard.
Also, there is a good chance that they will be going ahead and opening up the singles option for large items and bundles for small items nearer the end of the campaign.
Also, slow is a matter of perspective. Considering where they are now, it would be hard to say today has been slow. Over $186k on the Kicktraq day with 6 hours left to go. Most campaigns dont make that in 30 days. It can be a bit misleading because of yesterday where they were meteoric.
As an example of hidden pledges, I am in this for $100 pledge at the minute. However, already my final total will be $167 and may increase if other decent models are added.
Personal, not liking the the last pay treats as the models contain examples of Reaper misses. The expansion gets a big "meh" at the minute - even at subsisidized prices the quality doesn't appear to be worth it.
Glenmorray wrote: I dont think the miniatures look very nice at all. That obviously must just be me then as they're doing so well.
Yeah, they really suck.
That's a bit melodramatic, Azazel . People are allowed to not like the figures! I looked at the Bugbear from KS1 in Bones material in a blister in the store... then went and ordered 2 metal ones online. It's not for everybody, but I agree that the purple wurm in particular that you posted a pic of is a good fit for it, as well as some other large / organic figures.
Not really. It's a melodramatic blanket statement that I don't think holds a lot of water regardless of whether you're talking about the sculpts - which are from a variety of sculptors over many years - or the material - which again comes up pretty close, or just as well, or in some cases - not very well at all.
I just showed a couple of examples that I think do look nice. I can show some more if you like? BTW, I'd be happy to defend almost any range of figures in the same manner.
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Sinful Hero wrote: 70% of the shipping from a quarter of the backers?! That's insane! No wonder they're putting the cost of shipping on the international backers.
The huge USPS price hike of '13 unfortunately would have blown out their projected costs there significantly.
ironicsilence wrote: So it seems like someone really needs to post a comment to Reaper asking if the price of US shipping is built into the pledge or if they are eating the shipping. Till then its really all just talking in circles around ROW shipping
That sounds like a really good idea.
Maybe some non-USA based user could do that, so we don't have to run in too many circles in here?
Thanks!
I'm trying not to be drawn into the shipping argument at this point. But of course US shipping is built into the base pledge. It's got to come from somewhere, after all.
The interesting part of this for me is wondering when they'll be making their estimates of what actual shipping costs, and asking for the cash. Shortly before it's about to ship seems the only fully-viable option, since they won't actually have the items in hand until then (to weigh and package them).
The Vampire sets don't weigh that much. As pointed out above, the heavy stuff was in the huge dragon add-ons. It'll effectively be a Kraken surcharge, this time around.
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Breotan wrote: That bad? I'm stunned that mediocre sculptors and substandard plastics can hit the one mil mark. What are people seeing that I'm not?
Are you trolling? Reaper's sculptors include people like Tre' Manor, Werner Klocke, Julie Guthrie, Pat Keith, Jason Weibe...
decker_cky wrote: It would save 5% on the shipping, since presumably there would be a 5% charge for paypal or whatever is used to add on shipping.
Paypal's fees are a hell of a lot less than 5%. A cursory Googling indicates it's more like 1.9 to 2.9% with an essentially negligable fee (30 cents). Less than 3% seems pretty awesome compared to ~10%.
Like, that could be tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a campaign of this size. That's not chump change when the 'profit' (above and beyond the vast expansion of their business) was only 50k or so with the first round.
A kickstarter is not a store. It is not intended to make money, it is intended to achieve a goal. The goal for reaper was the creation of new molds for their plastic bones line and the purchase/installation of the machines that make plastic minis.
Hello. Long time lurker here. Felt compelled to post about Bones 2 though.
I was late on the kickstarter bandwagon so I missed Bones 1 to my chagrin. In hindsight, it was crazy good value and amongst the piles of 'ok' sculpts (let's be fair, if GW had put out some of those sculpts, dakka would be crying bloody murder), there were some amazing sculpts like Nethyrmaul and Kaladrax. I feel that it was this mix of crazy value and one or two superb centrepieces that made Bones 1 so legendary.
Now with Bones 2, I jumped on right away. But I am getting more and more wary.
Firstly, there arent, in my eyes anyway, any amazing sculpts. The dragons are ok... But nothing to write home about. In short, there's no Nethyrmaul in there that makes me go 'wow'.
Secondly the value equation is less appealing, particularly as an Aussie. The shipping will probably add 60% to the cost and they definitely seem less generous than last time. Granted, the core pack is still pretty good value, but the number of great sculpts Ill actually paint up amounts to a dozen or so.
Not sure if anyone else feels like I do. I am sure they will beat Bones 1 in funding, and they will not give a damn about a single backer like me, but I am a tad disappointed after missing Bones 1, that Bones 2 seems less spectacular...
It is early though, so please prove me wrong Reaper!
ironicsilence wrote: thats a result of the US postal service being in HUGE amounts of debt. USPS shipping to just about anywhere outside the US went up A LOT last year. I have zero doubt that its prolly 2 to 3 times cheaper to ship something from the UK to the US then it is to go US to UK
I keep seeing people say this, but if you mail things first-class it's actually still reasonable to ship to the UK.
But there are problems with international first class:
No insurance available
No tracking available
Small maximum package size
These problems make first class useless for Reaper's Kickstarter needs.
coolmandool wrote: Hello. Long time lurker here. Felt compelled to post about Bones 2 though.
I was late on the kickstarter bandwagon so I missed Bones 1 to my chagrin. In hindsight, it was crazy good value and amongst the piles of 'ok' sculpts (let's be fair, if GW had put out some of those sculpts, dakka would be crying bloody murder), there were some amazing sculpts like Nethyrmaul and Kaladrax. I feel that it was this mix of crazy value and one or two superb centrepieces that made Bones 1 so legendary.
Now with Bones 2, I jumped on right away. But I am getting more and more wary.
Firstly, there arent, in my eyes anyway, any amazing sculpts. The dragons are ok... But nothing to write home about. In short, there's no Nethyrmaul in there that makes me go 'wow'.
Secondly the value equation is less appealing, particularly as an Aussie. The shipping will probably add 60% to the cost and they definitely seem less generous than last time. Granted, the core pack is still pretty good value, but the number of great sculpts Ill actually paint up amounts to a dozen or so.
Not sure if anyone else feels like I do. I am sure they will beat Bones 1 in funding, and they will not give a damn about a single backer like me, but I am a tad disappointed after missing Bones 1, that Bones 2 seems less spectacular...
It is early though, so please prove me wrong Reaper!
It's the second day. I doubt Bones1 had that much value on Day2
I guess I am comparing this kickstarter to the previous one. At a similar $1m funding level, bones 1 core had more minis, Nethyrmaul and negligible shipping.
Wait and see is the best approach, but I am hoping for an amazing sculpt to land soon.
coolmandool wrote: I guess I am comparing this kickstarter to the previous one. At a similar $1m funding level, bones 1 core had more minis, Nethyrmaul and negligible shipping.
Wait and see is the best approach, but I am hoping for an amazing sculpt to land soon.
Looks can be decieving.
The final count on the $100 level was 241 miniatures with a big hunk being tiny (familiars, rats, kobolds, vermin) making up nearly 40 figures. Right now (day 2) we have 142 minis in the base package with almost all of them being man sized (or at least dwarf sized) and larger.
At roughly the same time in the campaign, funding wise, ($1.2 million) KS1 had 179 miniatures in the Vampire package. More, yes, but to my eye, the more was less significant in many ways. Granted, because of the way Reaper has been choosing figures, the ones in the first KS would largely be more attractive. They used their best selling figures in metal as a guage of what to convert to Bones.
_________
In other news, we are less than $8K away from the next goal. If every backer increased their pledge by $1 we could see the next goal and ReaperBryan could go to bed.
coolmandool wrote: Hello. Long time lurker here. Felt compelled to post about Bones 2 though.
Firstly, there arent, in my eyes anyway, any amazing sculpts. The dragons are ok... But nothing to write home about. In short, there's no Nethyrmaul in there that makes me go 'wow'.
Secondly the value equation is less appealing, particularly as an Aussie. The shipping will probably add 60% to the cost and they definitely seem less generous than last time. Granted, the core pack is still pretty good value, but the number of great sculpts Ill actually paint up amounts to a dozen or so.
Not sure if anyone else feels like I do. I am sure they will beat Bones 1 in funding, and they will not give a damn about a single backer like me, but I am a tad disappointed after missing Bones 1, that Bones 2 seems less spectacular...
It is early though, so please prove me wrong Reaper!
Bear in mind that the big guns like Nethyrmaul and Kalidrax weren't on show during Day 2 of the Bones 1 campaign, which is where we are right now. Same deal with the "value" in Vampire vs "Core" in terms of generosity. I don't expect the $100 level to necessarily be as good a deal in the end as Vampire, but then again it's still a definite possibility, simply with the stretches farther apart. Shipping is going to be a bear, but again, for the core level it won't be horrific. It'll start doing that when you add on a bunch of the large extras, like the Kraken. Then again, Kalidrax in Bones at RRP is now US$83, and so if you're hoping to get stuff like that, it'll still be worth picking them up here. On the other hand, it won't be worth getting 4 Krakens "just because", as was the case with Kali last time.
But there are problems with international first class:
No insurance available
No tracking available
Small maximum package size
These problems make first class useless for Reaper's Kickstarter needs.
T
It might be worthwhile looking into UPS/FedEx type solutions, as well as the kinds of discounts Reaper can look at for getting 2k or so packages shipped internationally.
coolmandool wrote: Hello. Long time lurker here. Felt compelled to post about Bones 2 though.
I was late on the kickstarter bandwagon so I missed Bones 1 to my chagrin. In hindsight, it was crazy good value and amongst the piles of 'ok' sculpts (let's be fair, if GW had put out some of those sculpts, dakka would be crying bloody murder), there were some amazing sculpts like Nethyrmaul and Kaladrax. I feel that it was this mix of crazy value and one or two superb centrepieces that made Bones 1 so legendary.
Now with Bones 2, I jumped on right away. But I am getting more and more wary.
Firstly, there arent, in my eyes anyway, any amazing sculpts. The dragons are ok... But nothing to write home about. In short, there's no Nethyrmaul in there that makes me go 'wow'.
Secondly the value equation is less appealing, particularly as an Aussie. The shipping will probably add 60% to the cost and they definitely seem less generous than last time. Granted, the core pack is still pretty good value, but the number of great sculpts Ill actually paint up amounts to a dozen or so.
Not sure if anyone else feels like I do. I am sure they will beat Bones 1 in funding, and they will not give a damn about a single backer like me, but I am a tad disappointed after missing Bones 1, that Bones 2 seems less spectacular...
It is early though, so please prove me wrong Reaper!
Keep in mind that there are 24 more days for the deal to get better. Bones 1 didn't look so hot on its first day, either.
I would also love to see more Egyptian stuff, especially some Anubis warriors and some living, human Nefsokar soldiers. Some Sci Fi stuff couldn't hurt, either.
I expect the next expansion to be for Sci Fi wargamers...or maybe I just hope it will be.
Just got this from Reaper, so we should see soon enough:
Reaper Miniatures says:
Soon we will be posting an on-line tool to manage add-ons, supply your contact information [mailing address] and calculate shipping charges that you can use to know how much your total pledge should be. It's coming very soon.
For now just add up everything you want and pledge that amount.
decker_cky wrote: It would save 5% on the shipping, since presumably there would be a 5% charge for paypal or whatever is used to add on shipping.
Paypal's fees are a hell of a lot less than 5%. A cursory Googling indicates it's more like 1.9 to 2.9% with an essentially negligable fee (30 cents). Less than 3% seems pretty awesome compared to ~10%.
Like, that could be tens of thousands of dollars over the course of a campaign of this size. That's not chump change when the 'profit' (above and beyond the vast expansion of their business) was only 50k or so with the first round.
A kickstarter is not a store. It is not intended to make money, it is intended to achieve a goal. The goal for reaper was the creation of new molds for their plastic bones line and the purchase/installation of the machines that make plastic minis.
I fail to see how any of this relates to what I have said. I said nothing about it being treated as a store or what the money was used for.
I merely mused aloud about the apparent change to their manner of handling S&H fees. Which IS different, and working under the assumption that these are intelligent professionals at the helm, it's surely for a reason.
I doubt potentially saving ~7% was something they missed, considering the raw costs involved. If it works out well, it wouldn't surprise me for "S&H to be determined more specifically at a later date" to become more common for super massive (read: multi million dollar) projects, the same way pledge managers have.
The final count on the $100 level was 241 miniatures with a big hunk being tiny (familiars, rats, kobolds, vermin) making up nearly 40 figures. Right now (day 2) we have 142 minis in the base package with almost all of them being man sized (or at least dwarf sized) and larger.
At roughly the same time in the campaign, funding wise, ($1.2 million) KS1 had 179 miniatures in the Vampire package. More, yes, but to my eye, the more was less significant in many ways. Granted, because of the way Reaper has been choosing figures, the ones in the first KS would largely be more attractive. They used their best selling figures in metal as a guage of what to convert to Bones.
There was a whole bunch of already created Bones filling out the previous kickstarter too. I know that at least the skeletons, one of the zombies and the kobolds were ready before the kickstarter.
Huntsman and lich look neat. Will not complain about more free figures.
Maybe we'll see the big evil hooded dude from the Pathfinder line end up in Bones? I don't feel like paying so much for him, and he looks like he'd make a great generic bad guy.
Any word on whether they're still going to be rolling out the sculptor- centric options?
They better get Weibe and Elliot back on sculpting up some new Reptus stuff- I've just about cleared Reaper out of every reptile they've made. I think I'm missing the Brood Dragon and a couple Nagendra units.
Maybe more Nefoskar stuff will end up in option two for the expansion. They forgot all about the Ammat!
As somebody that missed the first one, I'd love to see some of the last KS bones make a reappearance as paid addons for old-KS prices.
Also, the figure choice for this one is far weaker than the original. It's not just about the most-popular already becoming bones last time, these all seam a lot more specialised. Feels like it's less of a "here's the next most popular kits" and more of a "here's the niche stuff we probably wouldn't have ever done as bones if not for a KS", like Reaper went from the absolute best and 2nd-best seling figs the first time around and then skipped over 3rd and 4th stringers. Still a fantastic deal, and totally worth what I'm getting, but there's way less that wow me this time around and way more that make me go "huh? Erm, well, huh. Ok I guess. The price is right at least".
i rather hope this one goes just as large as the first, but, while i initially pledged, i dropped it a wee bit ago
i may check it again in a few weeks and see what the individual add-ons are, but i had to admit to myself that i have no use for a lot of the stuff in the $100 pledge
Kalamadea wrote: As somebody that missed the first one, I'd love to see some of the last KS bones make a reappearance as paid addons for old-KS prices.
Won't happen as they're currently selling those minis on their online store to customers AND to retailers, who would be pissed off to see them being sold more cheaply direct. Plus I'm pretty sure it's against the KS rules anyway.
Sean_OBrien wrote: I have heard that Expansion 2 will be more wargamer centric, with a possible focus on mounted stuff.
Al I want is my 24 very nicely sculpted reaper trolls. Every time I see a reaper troll I think "amazing! I want 3 different poses in the same style and 24 of them!".
That cave troll in the expansion is awesome, want it. Same goes for the swamp troll. I'm hoping that eventually enough of these will be released in a similar style for me to cobble them together into proper units.
Mounted stuff could be interesting, it'll have to work pretty hard to beat mantic's price point on that though.
I'll probably end up buying at retail and converting, I've just done the maths and have worked out that while, yes, $10 for a dragon in this KS is a good deal, that will likely be $20 once ship/handling/taxes is factored in and I can just buy it in the UK for a similar (25% higher) price from one of the places that gets bulk retail shipping from Reaper (largely eliminating the insanely high USPS fees) and from there it's a matter of affordable domestic shipping to get it to my door. Deathsleet was $10, very nice mini, an £16.80 to buy in the UK.. kickstarter still offered a better deal even with shipping and duty.. but not massively less, either. And that's a relatively expensive one, a lot of the $10 bones i minis ended up retailing for £10-£12 over here. The kickstarter economics don't quite work out on this one for me personally, I've looked at what £100-£120 (the eventual cost of $100 spent on this KS) will get me buying stuff from the bones I range at retail pricing, choosing only the minis I want, and it's much more appealing.
About 60% of the current package I would throw in a cupboard or not use which is also a bit of a problem since I'm very waste-averse, both in environmental terms and in "I don't want stuff junking up the joint" terms.. I dunno, it feels like this could have used some more structure. Undead/ evil things booster, heroes booster, Nature things/ elements booster, Trolls and other beasties booster, large dragons booster, sci-fi booster etc.
I've seen some relatively massive KS's from CMoN that have offered really good cherry-pick choices, seems a bit odd that there isn't more thought put into this other than the expansions (which again, seem to be a completely random selection of entirely unrelated miniatures).
I'm starting to feel unsure about the sculpt quality, too.. for example:
The lich and the guy with the antlers look amazing, guy in the top right is ok, the other two look like crap, though, as if they were mid-90's sculpts that would be better off with a resculpt.
The quantity of good stuff might swing it for me in the end so there's no harm in clutching an early bird for now.
It's looking likely that I'll need around 300 minis in the core set just to get 100 minis that I actually want, though... and then hope to sell off the rest of the stuff to try and break even on the shipping and taxes.
Reaper could learn a lot from CMoN.. they've very carefully refined their KS processes and structures over the years and while I often don't like their products, their range of choice and organization is generally very good.
Kalamadea wrote: As somebody that missed the first one, I'd love to see some of the last KS bones make a reappearance as paid addons for old-KS prices.
Also, the figure choice for this one is far weaker than the original. It's not just about the most-popular already becoming bones last time, these all seam a lot more specialised. Feels like it's less of a "here's the next most popular kits" and more of a "here's the niche stuff we probably wouldn't have ever done as bones if not for a KS", like Reaper went from the absolute best and 2nd-best seling figs the first time around and then skipped over 3rd and 4th stringers. Still a fantastic deal, and totally worth what I'm getting, but there's way less that wow me this time around and way more that make me go "huh? Erm, well, huh. Ok I guess. The price is right at least".
Really? I felt there were quite a lot of left-field figures in the first lot that weren't "most popular". IMEF Marines? Townsfolk?
Reaper could learn a lot from CMoN.. they've very carefully refined their KS processes and structures over the years and while I often don't like their products, their range of choice and organization is generally very good.
It is helpful to remember though, that while CMoN appears to have there stuff together, Reapers 1 and 1/12th campaigns have been more successful in total backers, total dollars and by a huge margin...total line items.
There isnt too much which can be learned when comparing smaller to larger or single retail package (with 20 or so one time stretch goals) with 200 or so production items which you intend to continue selling for the next 10 years or more.
On the sculpts themselves, Reaper has always had a broad range of sculptors with some better than others. The Pathfinder specific figures tend to be done by more skilled sculptors, so while they might not be your cup of tea...I think the appearance is more to do with the artwork from the Pathfinder book that they are using to sculpt from and less about any actual short comings on the sculpting. I am an old school US fantasy guy, so most those dont appeal to me in the same way that the UKs take on fantasy doesnt appeal to me (with all your pointed hats). That said, they are faithful representations of the art they are supposed to be.
Kalamadea wrote: As somebody that missed the first one, I'd love to see some of the last KS bones make a reappearance as paid addons for old-KS prices.
Also, the figure choice for this one is far weaker than the original. It's not just about the most-popular already becoming bones last time, these all seam a lot more specialised. Feels like it's less of a "here's the next most popular kits" and more of a "here's the niche stuff we probably wouldn't have ever done as bones if not for a KS", like Reaper went from the absolute best and 2nd-best seling figs the first time around and then skipped over 3rd and 4th stringers. Still a fantastic deal, and totally worth what I'm getting, but there's way less that wow me this time around and way more that make me go "huh? Erm, well, huh. Ok I guess. The price is right at least".
Really? I felt there were quite a lot of left-field figures in the first lot that weren't "most popular". IMEF Marines? Townsfolk?
On the first he is largely right. If you look at the Top 50 and Top 100 lists from Reaper, those have almost all been turned into Bones.
I wouldnt say they skipped over the next best sellers though. The solo miniature market has always been rather scattered, so it can often seem like left field items (or skipping 3rd and 4th most popular levels). They have adjusted to include more big stuff, things which due to cost in metal wont show up on the above lists...but they would not be well served to ignore their sales data entirely.
I think the value or quality of a lot of the choices are going to boil down to individual tastes. I'm quite happy with some of the choices, as I was planning on getting them in the near future! The big troll, the turtle men, the lizard guy in the core 30, the dragon turtle, the horned huntsman looking guy, the pathfinder cavalier and samurai- all things on my radar to get (and had been in various shopping carts on previous shopping binges).
Purchasing them all individually would probably end up close to the price of a core pledge anyways. Might as well get them in Bones and let the whole family mess with them rather than have all the metals coveted by myself, and myself alone.
I am having difficult with seeing what all the issues are. Day 2 or 3 and 150+ minis for approx $160 with more to come. Are we just searching for issues here?
As for the comparison with CMON - one, Reaper did extremely well with their first Bones offerring. The communication was excellent and considering how big the damn thing exploded to I thought the delays were acceptable. I bet Reaper were more surprised than anyone that they suddenly had 17k backers expecting minis!
I can seem me being in this for approx $200 ish and being quite happy with the results. Sure there will be total dogs in this - Reaper is infamous for some awesome sculpts and then at the same time famous for so so so many WTF is that hideousness!!
But I do think we need to dial down the anxiousness just a little in this thread.
A interesting response to why is this KS being run differently than the first on goal levels.. I believe they are going to run a better KS this time opposed to the last..
Creator Reaper Miniatures less than a minute ago
We learned from mistakes and miscalculations last time. Comparing the two is not as simple as all that. For one, we did a LOT more double levels last time, too, and we aren't doing that again.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but to expect this to be an exact repeat will set you up for disappointment. We are not doing things the same, from levels, to goals, to reward tiers, and a billion other small changes. The question at the end of the day is "is this a good deal, and do I want these items at this price?" if yes, here you are. If not, there are other very worthy projects out there that may have what you seek.
Well said, Reaper. I think people are expecting free puppies and BJs. I'm just expecting a lot of good minis at a good price. Also, it has been said previously but bears emphasis, DAY 2!
pretre wrote: Well said, Reaper. I think people are expecting free puppies and BJs. I'm just expecting a lot of good minis at a good price. Also, it has been said previously but bears emphasis, DAY 2!
pretre wrote: Well said, Reaper. I think people are expecting free puppies and BJs. I'm just expecting a lot of good minis at a good price. Also, it has been said previously but bears emphasis, DAY 2!
I totally agree.. I am totally stoked about this one.. If they use the same time frame to send out the pledge manager as last time.. I should be able to add onto my order quite nicely.. I just wish I could up the pledge I have now.. But gf sad no.. :( The things we do for love and bills.. lol..
Well that bonus when we get there will add 2 figures to my like pile. We're getting close to that 50 model mark that will make this worth it. I'm currently in for just the basic pledge to get my stuff a year from now. I'm trying really hard not to look at the actual KS more than once a day since it's only day 3 and it's moving more like a normal KS now (i.e. one goal broken a day).
Multiple KSs which are in their 'round 2' seem to scale back the 'raging party' which was the first KS to a more tasteful party.
Last time they were having KSs which were for 20 people and 5000 people showed up and they had to begin promising stretchgoals out the wazoo. Those companies had massive hangovers and many lost money.
This time they are planning accordingly which means you may not get the same drastic discounts. If that 'angers' you because your expectation bar has been set too high, then don't pledge.
This seems to be a trend across multiple companies, Fall/winder 2012 was a kickstarter bender which left a lot of companies limping to the fulfillment line. I don't begrudge them being more conservative, but we will also see how fickle the KS audience is in general and if people take the "I deserve more free stuff" or "We totally got away with crazy stuff last time which was probably not feasible"
Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
DooM wrote: Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
Note that those prices are for a 5kg package with a $300 dollar value. The vampire pledge was 1.8kg. It really depend on how much to add to your base pledge.
DooM wrote: Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
Note that those prices are for a 5kg package with a $300 dollar value. The vampire pledge was 1.8kg. It really depend on how much to add to your base pledge.
Lowering the values for 100 dollar value and 2kg package, rate to Finland Dropped from 80$ to 60$. So It really doesn't go much lower.
DooM wrote: Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
Note that those prices are for a 5kg package with a $300 dollar value. The vampire pledge was 1.8kg. It really depend on how much to add to your base pledge.
Lowering the values for 100 dollar value and 2kg package, rate to Finland Dropped from 80$ to 60$. So It really doesn't go much lower.
What shipping did reaper use last time? Express or Priority? And what will they use this time?
DooM wrote: Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
Likewise. There's no harm in me holding on to the early bird pledge until the final day to assess things properly before dropping, but it really does look like I'll be able to get the minis I want from the core Bones pledge for less than $200 ($100 pledge + $100 probable extra fees) at retail by the time this is over.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do decide to sort out EU distro and/or a courier/slow boat service to use in place of USPS. These things are possible to sort out, other companies do sort them out.
And there's always the chance that the deal might become good enough to warrant paying $200 for.
^ GW selling more in the UK is largely a GW-specific oddity due to them having a *ton* of stores here.
For other wargames companies the US market is far bigger and more important.. which is why companies like Mantic make sure UK-to-US shipping is free on all of their Kickstarters... they have to take a bit of a hit to do that, but the market is worth so much to them.
They've even mentioned that one of the reasons they continue to price their Kickstarters in USD rather than GBP is because the bulk of their backers are American and they don't want to confuse them with weird foreign currency.
Kickstarter is also primarily an American-based thing with more American users and projects, they didn't even allow foreign projects until very recently, which further multiplies the importance of American backers within the Kickstarter environment itself.
So, taking that into account, you can understand why domestic demand is so strong for Reaper that they don't necessarily *need* to sort out a solution... as Sean's earlier post pointed out, Reaper is successful enough already. When you know you're pulling in $5-10 million with ease regardless there isn't really much incentive to boost that further and risk things getting out of control and one of the most logical places to put the brakes on is the with foreign backers who are costly and complicated to sort out compared to domestic backers.
They did try to sort something out just with Canada and it was a nightmare, so the stance this time is "feth it". They've already made a comment to the effect of "don't like it, go back something else", so I don't think it's likely that the situation will change, you just have to take a look and decide if it's worth it compared to other options for getting hold of it on release.
It's not just Reaper either, if you look at all kickstarters for pretty much anything, it is much more common to see free or cheap shipping to the US than it is to see free/cheap shipping out of the US.
DooM wrote: Until we get our actual calculator online, here's a little chart we generated from the USPS rate calculator (http://ircalc.usps.com). 5 kg, $300 value:
Poland $80
Australia $80
UK $72
Germany $60
Canada $50
Finally, as a frame of reference the vampire box last year came in at 1.8kg and a single Kaladrax was 1.2kg.
I'm probably out. Not paying 70$ shipping + 22% VAT + handling charges for a shipment to italy, especially as i'm not interested in all minis in the core. I'm better ff buying the selected ones i want from UK sites.
Note that those prices are for a 5kg package with a $300 dollar value. The vampire pledge was 1.8kg. It really depend on how much to add to your base pledge.
Lowering the values for 100 dollar value and 2kg package, rate to Finland Dropped from 80$ to 60$. So It really doesn't go much lower.
What shipping did reaper use last time? Express or Priority? And what will they use this time?
They were assuming it would cost about $25 to ship overseas for about 4 lbs; which was entirely true until the USPS doubled/tripled (rate of increase dependent on locale and service) their rates in January. Guess what, guys, UPS, Fedex, and DHL are all _more expensive_. Even UPS to Canada costs almost double what the USPS charges. This is because the USPS counts as an "international governmental postal carrier" whereas UPS/Fedex/etc are couriers that pay extra import duties/fees/tariffs/taxes that a "governmental postal carrier" ignores, and they UPS charges an extra bit on top of that for the hassle of having to deal with all that.
You really cannot blame a company for not eating the shipping costs.
I was more speaking about general miniature sales, rather than kickstarting.
The reasons you said about kickstarters are valid, but the difference between US/euro sales is also enlarged by the lack of Reaper-Presence in EU-zone.
Why would Euros go gaga over Reaper Miniatures, when they're bunch of neverheards?
(I do like them & and my friends liked them enough to buy some bones-extras from me. Getting more of them or new ones seems to become insurmountable challenge.)
Yeah, be very interested in the shipping calculator. I am only really interested in the Kraken, so if it weighs in more than 1 pound, it's about $24 to send it. That $15 miniature which is a bargain is less so with that kind of postage cost.
I hope they work out something good for the RoW backers, otherwise I don't know whether it's something I will be looking at taking on.
adhuin wrote: Pathfinder line has lot of good figures. Too bad the official "Dwarf Ranger" figure doesn look anything like the original portrait.
Getting these hillbilly Ogres would also be awesome:
I think there's a very good chance those get made. It looks like Reaper is focusing on the Pathfinder range, and those are some of the only expensive pathfinder models left to convert.
I had to take a long hard think, and I ended up cancelling my pledge - My box of Bones 1 is still essentially unused, and the prospect of large shipping charges and a ludicrously long wait (even with my Early Bird) just wasn't worth it for me.
I know they're overdone, but I really hope we get a staight zombie expansion in there somewhere. I don't care if it's add-on or a freebie, I just need more shambling corpses. The five in the expansion look good, but I really dont' care about any of the other stuff in there except the Egyptian pieces. It'd be nice to see the Chronoscope urban zombies show up. Or the high school students. Those would be pretty damn awesome to have.
fullheadofhair wrote: Did I miss something - what was Expansion 2? We passed it but I dont see any details?
Havent passed expansion two yet...it hasnt been revealed. Expansion #1 has had one stretchgoal added to it though. That was the Egyptians, lions and zombies at $1.183M.
I have heard that Expansion #2 might be cavalry related with a side of Warlord and then Expansion #3 Being larger terrain type things...though Reaper has a history of changing those things up on the fly, so it might get reversed...or I guess they might put in more Mouslings.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure if everyone has seen it, but they have gotten the gelatenous cube sculpt done.
Two piece figure with the outside being clear jelly and the inside being whatever it has eaten recently.
While not super 'cubey' I do like the aspect of the model where we can put it over other stuff and be clear. I think it is a fun gimmick worth 10$ for dungeon fun.
I would be open to other 'spell effects' that can be put over or around a model like this.
Sinful Hero wrote: The Egyptian stuff is starting to draw me- also the lion and lioness. More zombies are also useful, but I'll have to think about whether or not to up my pledge. The dragon turtle still turns me off from that whole level- I don't think I'd even want to open it in a box.
Heh, my first thought when I saw that turtle was how it could be used as a certain giant Japanese turtle monster in a six or ten mm game.
The last Kickstarter didn't get me, but this one might. Once that shipping calculator comes out, I'll be able to make a final assessment. So far I like the miniatures chosen for this one a lot more. Other than Cthulhu. That thing is awesome.
Barzam wrote: I know they're overdone, but I really hope we get a staight zombie expansion in there somewhere.
The last kickstarter had an option at the end where you could purchase extras of a particular group of models in the base set - they will likely do something similar (if you go in the comments I think they confirm that).
ruff wrote: A interesting response to why is this KS being run differently than the first on goal levels.. I believe they are going to run a better KS this time opposed to the last..
Creator Reaper Miniatures less than a minute ago
We learned from mistakes and miscalculations last time. Comparing the two is not as simple as all that. For one, we did a LOT more double levels last time, too, and we aren't doing that again.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but to expect this to be an exact repeat will set you up for disappointment. We are not doing things the same, from levels, to goals, to reward tiers, and a billion other small changes. The question at the end of the day is "is this a good deal, and do I want these items at this price?" if yes, here you are. If not, there are other very worthy projects out there that may have what you seek.
What are "double levels"? Double Vampire? Surely people can just bump their pledges here to 2x core and it's effectively the same (excepting the postage).
I think it might refer to double reward levels...where you got a freebie and an option...
The actual pledges are pretty much whatever you want, so in theory, you could get in on a dollar backer slot and than select the whole thing in the pledge manager.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And in actual KS news...
On Day one, during the flurry of activity, we accidentally uploaded the incorrect Graphic for the "Oh, Rats!" Option.Below is the correct graphic, with the correct 7 models, including Gopher Centaur, Dwarf, Rat-giant, rat sorcerer, and two rat assassins.
Not sure which is more disturbing, the dwarven clansman in the diaper or the gophertaur. Granted the sorcerous who looks to be maximizing the exposed nipple rule is right up there as well.
It doesn't even look like a rat though... the sorceress... And it looks more like a flasher than a sorceress at that! I'm confused by the cultist dwarf... The gophertaur is wierding me out. The only thing there I like is the rat-giant, and maybe the rat-sassins.
It *is* nice for people who do like that stuff, to be getting more models. Good of them to point it out and all
They may have got me on that transparent gelatinous cube too... crafty bastards!
GrimDork wrote: It doesn't even look like a rat though... the sorceress... And it looks more like a flasher than a sorceress at that! I'm confused by the cultist dwarf... The gophertaur is wierding me out. The only thing there I like is the rat-giant, and maybe the rat-sassins.
It *is* nice for people who do like that stuff, to be getting more models. Good of them to point it out and all
They may have got me on that transparent gelatinous cube too... crafty bastards!
Honestly, I am going to call the rat sorcerous a weasel of sorts...but either way it is disturbing and should be fun to paint.
Unlike a lot of people, I am more interested in getting a huge assortment, so this is a good thing. After I have them in hand and painted up, Ill determine if I want to buy a dozen more for converting to make a unit out of. Last campaign, there were a couple that I knew I wanted more of right off the bat (clockwork dragon, fire and frost giants...) but mostly I like the idea of getting nearly free samples of the entire Bones catalog. Sometime next winter, I might decide that I want to make a unit of gophertaur sappers or whatever and as opposed to scouring online to see how big they are or how hard it might be to do weapn swaps...I can go to my shelf and take a close look in person.
Oh surely I don't mind the variety, I'm just not digging on their particular line of rat-fiends. Having random stuff to paint is the only reason I'm in for this. That they will serve well as D&D miniatures if I ever get the chance to play again... is but a bonus
I was going to use the first rendition of 'Oh rats!" to toss into skaven slaves regiments and use the bigs as rat ogres... but that change hoses that plan :( oh wells. I guess I'll just have to add more dragons lol.
Will anyone please recommend me some "flavor" reading for Bones? I want to read some nice, pulpy fantasy stories about the kinds of characters and monsters Reaper has immortalized in white plastic. Presumably, I should read some of the DnD tie-in fiction, but where do I start? Are any Pathfinder novels good? How about The Mallorean or _______ of Shannara or something like that? What books motivate you to paint up some models and throw them into role play?
Sort of depends. The old Dragonlance novels, many of the Forgotten Realms books, especially those by Salvatore (Dritz et al) and Greenwood. The realms are sort of the iconic D&D world created by Greenwood, and he grew it over nearly 30 years creating most the history and background. TSR was very prolific in producing D&D fiction, and many of them were extremely well written.
Pathfinder hasnt seemed to have the same level of success, though the game has taken off a lot and their are short stories scattered throughout the various rule books.
Everyone will probably have their own take on their favorite setting for fantasy fiction, but when it comes to gaming worlds, for me, it will be Forgotten Realms. Lots of characters which are well developed through decades of writing and a single guiding force, so things tend to avoid repeated redactions (at least during the TSR period).
Outside of game worlds, you have the Wheel of Time series. You also have older books by Lieber and Howard. The D&D flavor of fantasy tends to be more fantastical then something like Tolkein, so while those books are excellent they dont really introduce a lot of the mythology you find in your average D&D style setting (or Pathfinder, Savage Worlds or other US based fantasy world).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is that the same series collected in "The Annotated Dragonlance Chronicles" omnibus?
If so, I think I've got that in a box, and I'll go dig it out right now. (Well, after the baby goes to sleep.)
It is. After you read those books, you will be asking for more Dragons and trying to figure out how you can field an army of dragon riders in a game.
The Dragonlance Chronicles and the Salvatore dark elf stuff was pretty good growing up. Especially starting with the dragons books and going through the twins saga.
In terms of myth and lore, there's always the grandaddy of them all, Elric. I love the early pulpy Elric stuff and how much GW cribbed off of it.
My dad read us the Shannara books when we were kids. I remember enjoying the first few.
You could always go the mousling route and get the Redwall books by Brian Jacques.
Oh, and if you have an eReader, many of them have been rereleased in various eBook formats. I havent looked through them all, but I know WotC was doing free first volumes of a lot of the trilogies and series for awhile on Amazon. Good for getting your feet wet while not paying too much.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is that the same series collected in "The Annotated Dragonlance Chronicles" omnibus?
If so, I think I've got that in a box, and I'll go dig it out right now. (Well, after the baby goes to sleep.)
Almost definitely, books 2 and 3 are Dragons Of Winter Night and Spring Dawning respectively, that trilogy then runs on into a further trilogy (the Twins books) and a "final" volume (Dragons Of Summer Flame) as well as numerous spin off books and short story anthologies.
I was also delighted to recently discover that the original authors had subsequently written two more trilogies, one that interleaves with the books of the original and another set after Summer Flame, which brings things to a nice conclusion, but doesn't preclude further books in the future.
I'll echo Sean's sentiments as well, a lot of the TSR stuff from the late 80s and through the 90s was my bread and butter through my teens, and while no one could accuse it of being "literature" I regard much of it with great affection and it is almost exactly the sort of thing you're asking for.
I liked the dragonlance books, but I couldn't game in that world... The magic was very limited/rare, which I'm sure appeals to some people. I read a ton of them so I'll back the recommendation . Salvatore and Greenwood too, Drizz't and Elminster ftw.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The Dragonlance Chronicles and the Salvatore dark elf stuff was pretty good growing up. Especially starting with the dragons books and going through the twins saga.
In terms of myth and lore, there's always the grandaddy of them all, Elric. I love the early pulpy Elric stuff and how much GW cribbed off of it.
My dad read us the Shannara books when we were kids. I remember enjoying the first few.
You could always go the mousling route and get the Redwall books by Brian Jacques.
Keep in mind though, Elric ended up influencing GW more and TSR less. It is one of the splits between North American fantasy and European fantasy. Howard had the bigger impact here with Conan, Kull, Solomon Kane and various short stories. You can see the differences between the two schools of thought in the game systems as well as how the writers influenced the art. I really feel that this social consciousnous is one of the reasons GW has had so much trouble with getting traction with their version of fantasy in the US.
Sean_OBrien wrote: Sort of depends. The old Dragonlance novels, many of the Forgotten Realms books, especially those by Salvatore (Dritz et al) and Greenwood. The realms are sort of the iconic D&D world created by Greenwood, and he grew it over nearly 30 years creating most the history and background. TSR was very prolific in producing D&D fiction, and many of them were extremely well written.
Pathfinder hasnt seemed to have the same level of success, though the game has taken off a lot and their are short stories scattered throughout the various rule books.
Everyone will probably have their own take on their favorite setting for fantasy fiction, but when it comes to gaming worlds, for me, it will be Forgotten Realms. Lots of characters which are well developed through decades of writing and a single guiding force, so things tend to avoid repeated redactions (at least during the TSR period).
Outside of game worlds, you have the Wheel of Time series. You also have older books by Lieber and Howard. The D&D flavor of fantasy tends to be more fantastical then something like Tolkein, so while those books are excellent they dont really introduce a lot of the mythology you find in your average D&D style setting (or Pathfinder, Savage Worlds or other US based fantasy world).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Is that the same series collected in "The Annotated Dragonlance Chronicles" omnibus?
If so, I think I've got that in a box, and I'll go dig it out right now. (Well, after the baby goes to sleep.)
It is. After you read those books, you will be asking for more Dragons and trying to figure out how you can field an army of dragon riders in a game.
Too late.
Thanks for the explanation and summary. I have hoarded away the first two Drizzt omnibuses and some Greenwood stuff, too. How about the Raistlin omnibus? I can actually see that one without digging...so, should i start with that or dig out the Dragonlance Chronicles first? Also, I've been reading Howard, Liever, Vance, et. al. I've got some Moorcock, but not yet dug in. But you're definitely helping me rearrange my to-read list. Thanks.
Redwall certainly fits with mousling miniatures, and I liked the book quite a bit (big fan of Watership Down as well).
I'd also suggest the Lost Chronicles books, they fit in-between the original Dragonlance Chronicle books and fill in some of the missing stories/modules from that series. The reading order (I believe) is:
Dragons of Autumn Twilight
Dragons of the Dwarven Depths*
Dragons of Winter Night
Dragons of The Highlord Skies*
Dragons of Spring Dawning
Dragons of the Hourglass Mage*
* These books were written years later, are far thicker, but at the same time have a richer sense to them.
Thanks for the continuing recommendations! I haven't yet found the Dragonlance Chronicles, but I did find the Icewind Dale Trilogy (Drizzt's first books, right?). Would it spoil anything to start with that, or is Dragonlance Chronicles just the best place to start? I ask because I have many, many boxes full of books...
Also, I might, might get into Redwall when Brushfire starts releasing their plastics. My wife liked the first few books of that series (and Mistmantle Chronicles..?) but said they became repetitive very quickly. Besides, I'm just not 'feeling' the mouslings.
I enjoyed the Icewind Dale trilogy. Read the omnibus one summer in Japan while my kids were in school.
Oooh- I know a fun one. The Guin Saga. Japanese grimdark fantasy. Kentaro Miura's inspiration for the manga Berserk. I'm pretty sure there's a couple of books in English.
I know I read a few in English, and tried bumbling my way through some of the Japanese ones.
Took a closer look at the Bones I models and wish I had a third foot to kick myself in the ass twice at once for not getting in on it. I'm not sure if I heard right, but did Reaper add some of the options to the vampire level for free after a certain funding level was reached? Or am I just crazy (I'm sure I'm crazy either way)?
tyrant of loserville wrote: Took a closer look at the Bones I models and wish I had a third foot to kick myself in the ass twice at once for not getting in on it. I'm not sure if I heard right, but did Reaper add some of the options to the vampire level for free after a certain funding level was reached? Or am I just crazy (I'm sure I'm crazy either way)?
Actually a thread on a certain imageboard last night mentioned an addon I'd love as someone who missed out on bones 1, a vampire box, I mean they've got the molds cut already so cost would be minimal to produce and it would certainly increase funding on this one for those of us who wussed out of the first one.
I imagine opinion would be divided on that to say the least though, just seems like a lot of the figs I actually liked from their range have already been given the bones treatment and won't be showing up again unless I shell out full price so it's just a mix of wishful thinking and regret
plastictrees wrote: Redwall is the anthropomorphic fantasy equivalent of David Eddings. You know exactly what you are getting every single time.
Hey, hey, hey! This isn't a slam on Eddings' writing style is it? I will make somebody bite the curb! Lol. I grew up with Eddings, and while there is a similarity between Belgariad/Elenium series (and sequels), Regina's Song, Losers, and High Hunt are all worlds different from the others. I didn't care about HH too much, but Losers and Regina's Song are both amazing reads. I never got into Redwall. Had Martin the Warrior and one other, didn't do anything for me.
On topic, Martin and his fellow mice are cute, but where's my bloody Bones Phoenix!!!
Ignatius-Grulgor wrote: Actually a thread on a certain imageboard last night mentioned an addon I'd love as someone who missed out on bones 1, a vampire box, I mean they've got the molds cut already so cost would be minimal to produce and it would certainly increase funding on this one for those of us who wussed out of the first one.
I imagine opinion would be divided on that to say the least though, just seems like a lot of the figs I actually liked from their range have already been given the bones treatment and won't be showing up again unless I shell out full price so it's just a mix of wishful thinking and regret
Reaper have said that they won't be offering KS1 stuff in this (or during the pledge manager) as it would have a negative impact on their retail stockists
all the stuff from the KS is available from stores (or their own website), and the Vampire box is still decent value ($325)
scarletsquig wrote: Kickstarters aren't allowed to offer old product, you get your project deleted if you do.
Can offer it in the post-KS survey, just not before.
Good thing nobody blew the whistle on Kings of War, most of my pledge was existing product... three armies worth!
I don't see why a Vampire pledge couldn't be an add-on... but Reaper sells them at retail now (for $324.99) so it would be like a $200 add on,a t least, and not a hundred bucks.
scarletsquig wrote: Kickstarters aren't allowed to offer old product, you get your project deleted if you do.
Can offer it in the post-KS survey, just not before.
Good thing nobody blew the whistle on Kings of War, most of my pledge was existing product... three armies worth!
I don't see why a Vampire pledge couldn't be an add-on... but Reaper sells them at retail now (for $324.99) so it would be like a $200 add on,a t least, and not a hundred bucks.
Other than the issues with KS rules, Reaper also likes their FLGS model. I dont think they would want to go ahead and upset those customers just to raise a little more on the KS campaign.
Sinful Hero wrote: Those spindly legs and the tall body(not to mention large head) worry me. I had enough trouble trying to get the Jabberwocky to stand upright.
Not sure if they had looked into it, but I had mentioned to a couple Reaper Peeps, the possiblity of do embedded wire on models like this and the Jabberwocky. It was quite common in toys from the 80s and 90s, you know the ones you could bend and they held the position? Anyway, that would largely deal with about half the concerns and issues people have with bones. They fellout of favor in kids toys because of safety concerns with the wires being able to be pulled out and then become dangerous for the kids.
Since they are going ahead with this one, they may have looked into it and found that it would work.
Not sure if they had looked into it, but I had mentioned to a couple Reaper Peeps, the possiblity of do embedded wire on models like this and the Jabberwocky. It was quite common in toys from the 80s and 90s, you know the ones you could bend and they held the position?
I remember my old D&D toys did that, like the Otyugh!
Sinful Hero wrote: Those spindly legs and the tall body(not to mention large head) worry me. I had enough trouble trying to get the Jabberwocky to stand upright.
Not sure if they had looked into it, but I had mentioned to a couple Reaper Peeps, the possiblity of do embedded wire on models like this and the Jabberwocky. It was quite common in toys from the 80s and 90s, you know the ones you could bend and they held the position? Anyway, that would largely deal with about half the concerns and issues people have with bones. They fellout of favor in kids toys because of safety concerns with the wires being able to be pulled out and then become dangerous for the kids.
Since they are going ahead with this one, they may have looked into it and found that it would work.
I hope not- I remember those old kind of toys. They were terrible. After playing with them enough, they'd be completely bent out of shape and all over the place. Not to mention I couldn't help but forever look at bones and remember that old bendy Santa Claus I had.
scarletsquig wrote: Kickstarters aren't allowed to offer old product, you get your project deleted if you do.
Can offer it in the post-KS survey, just not before.
Good thing nobody blew the whistle on Kings of War, most of my pledge was existing product... three armies worth!
I don't see why a Vampire pledge couldn't be an add-on... but Reaper sells them at retail now (for $324.99) so it would be like a $200 add on,a t least, and not a hundred bucks.
I don't think anyone blew the whistle because it isn't a thing. I would have to see such a rule as I have seen literally dozens of KSs have existing inventory as part of rewards as well as other KS which are funding something intangible give existing swag as rewards. I just don't see how KS is so unregulated that somehow it would be 'against the rules' to offer non-KS funded minis as a reward package at all.
Yeah, Kickstarters offer existing product as addons and even as base pledge leves ALL the time. If it's a rule, it's one that KS doesn't bother to enforce. Perhaps it's only applicable to a KS that is just trying to resell an existing product and not create anything new?
Alas, for the Bones II, it's already in the doldrums. The stretches are pretty spread out, and nothing is cathcing my fancy. It's gonna be ~$1.6 million before I see anything new that interests me, the next dragon is all right, be we already have much better in bones already. The 5 evil guys do very little for me (Reaper has a lot of FAR better villain characters still not in bones) and that spindly dragon is a complete miss. I think they were trying for the Warhammer aesthetic but couldn't quite catch it.
I do like the info on possible wires in the figs, that would add a LOT of much needed structural integrity. Hopefully it would be possible to go back and do it to older Bones as well, I'd pay an extra 50 cents a fig for the swords to be straight and remain that way.
I guess if things really do slow down too much they can always throw some extra goals somewhere in between.
Shame there isn't a whole lot to get excited about currently. It might be neat to have some silhouettes showing up as teases for stuff further down the line.
Ignatius-Grulgor wrote: Actually a thread on a certain imageboard last night mentioned an addon I'd love as someone who missed out on bones 1, a vampire box, I mean they've got the molds cut already so cost would be minimal to produce and it would certainly increase funding on this one for those of us who wussed out of the first one.
You can buy Vampire boxes on eBay for $200 or less. Prices have been dropping or sellers have tossed in additional add-ons!
I'm ninjaing Sean on this, I think it's really important for our international friends.
Project Update #36: Important Notice For International Backers Greetings!
Posted by Reaper Miniatures
Greetings!
First we’d like to thank you for your support. The speed at which this Bones 2 Kickstarter funded has both humbled us and set into motion a general panic to catch up.
Concerning International Shipping- VERY SOON™ we’ll have our Pledge Calculator online. It will allow you to choose your options and build your pledge. It will also include a shipping rate calculator.
This shipping calculator will use the rates posted on the US Postal Service website to determine the amount you’ll need to include in your pledge to cover your shipping.
Until our Pledge Calculator goes live we’ve included some information below that will help you get a rough estimate on what your shipping charges could be.
Estimated Weights:
Core Set – 4lbs (1.8kg)
Regular Figure .25oz (.01kg)
Small Dragon – 1.25oz (.04kg)
Large Figure - .35oz (.01kg)
Small Giant – 1oz (.03kg)
Very Large Dragon - 2lbs 8oz (1.2kg)
Medium Dragon - 3.5oz (.1kg)
Figure Case – 2lbs (.9kg)
Paint Set of 12 Bottles –12oz (.35kg)
Shipping Example 1: (4lbs)
Using the weights above, a Core Set alone, $100.00 declared value shipped First Class International to these countries would cost:
Poland $38.95
Australia $38.95
UK $38.95
Germany $38.95
Canada $27.35
Shipping Example 2: (6lbs 10oz)
Using the weights above, one each of everything above excluding a figure case or paints, $150.00 declared value shipped Priority International to these countries would cost:
Poland $66.90
Australia $65.25
UK $ 63.30
Germany $ 52.30
Canada $ 42.35
Shipping Example 3: (9lbs 2oz)
Using the weights above, one each of everything above, $198.00 declared value shipped Priority International to these countries would cost:
Poland $79.05
Australia $78.30
UK $72.15
Germany $60.55
Canada $49.40
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I suspect I'll either end up pledging for the basic set alone or cherry picking the best off the add-ons
looking at those postal costs
Edit: I wonder whether a US based mail forwarding company would be able to do it cheaper (and if they could whether Reaper would ship to one for free for non-US backers?
Not terribly excited about the latest reveal. He honestly doesn't look like a very good sculpt. Those limbs are way too spindly and I don't know what's up with those body proportions. It's just kind of ugly, especially compared to the previous dragons they've shown. I wouldn't be against them showing a few more stretch goals though to increase backer interest.
Sinful Hero wrote: Those spindly legs and the tall body(not to mention large head) worry me. I had enough trouble trying to get the Jabberwocky to stand upright.
Not sure if they had looked into it, but I had mentioned to a couple Reaper Peeps, the possiblity of do embedded wire on models like this and the Jabberwocky. It was quite common in toys from the 80s and 90s, you know the ones you could bend and they held the position? Anyway, that would largely deal with about half the concerns and issues people have with bones. They fellout of favor in kids toys because of safety concerns with the wires being able to be pulled out and then become dangerous for the kids.
Since they are going ahead with this one, they may have looked into it and found that it would work.
That is pure speculation! I'd be very hesitant to pledge for that model... from what I've seen of Bones, there's a very good chance it'll be wobbly with how tall and thin it is.
Just someone mentioning adding wires to them (and not the reverse) is not nearly enough to put my mind at ease about that... i.e. there is no indication from them at all that they are doing anything other than casting it like everything else, which means it'll be a risky proposition.
Image for reference... note the complete lack of their saying anything like "now supported by wires!"
They seem to be dropping in a lot of terrible, terrible sculpts in this KS. I know Reaper has a ton of better stuff to sell in Bones, but for some reason they are offering us the terrible silly-putty sculpts from the 80's. I blame the extremely insular and nostalgia-driven nature of their private message boards. Also, a lot of the hardcore RPGers have been requesting absolute garbage minis just because they happen to fill some obscure roleplaying niche that hasn't been catered to since 2nd edition DnD.
No sense if giving away good stuff they can sell at higher rates later, not with over a million already pledged. Reaper has its audience by the nadgers by now.
Sinful Hero wrote: Those spindly legs and the tall body(not to mention large head) worry me. I had enough trouble trying to get the Jabberwocky to stand upright.
Not sure if they had looked into it, but I had mentioned to a couple Reaper Peeps, the possiblity of do embedded wire on models like this and the Jabberwocky. It was quite common in toys from the 80s and 90s, you know the ones you could bend and they held the position? Anyway, that would largely deal with about half the concerns and issues people have with bones. They fellout of favor in kids toys because of safety concerns with the wires being able to be pulled out and then become dangerous for the kids.
Since they are going ahead with this one, they may have looked into it and found that it would work.
That is pure speculation! I'd be very hesitant to pledge for that model... from what I've seen of Bones, there's a very good chance it'll be wobbly with how tall and thin it is.
Just someone mentioning adding wires to them (and not the reverse) is not nearly enough to put my mind at ease about that... i.e. there is no indication from them at all that they are doing anything other than casting it like everything else, which means it'll be a risky proposition.
Image for reference... note the complete lack of their saying anything like "now supported by wires!"
Yes, it is speculation, which is why I said "may". They are aware of the issue with figures like the Jaberwocky (which is a very good analog to this dragon). They may have, they may not have. I know it was something which they were looking into in order to deal with a lot of the "spindly" figures which will not work as well with the softer plastic. A harder formulation is also an option, but that would require a different design to avoid undercuts and what not.
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: They seem to be dropping in a lot of terrible, terrible sculpts in this KS. I know Reaper has a ton of better stuff to sell in Bones, but for some reason they are offering us the terrible silly-putty sculpts from the 80's. I blame the extremely insular and nostalgia-driven nature of their private message boards. Also, a lot of the hardcore RPGers have been requesting absolute garbage minis just because they happen to fill some obscure roleplaying niche that hasn't been catered to since 2nd edition DnD.
Not sure I would call them terrible sculpts. Styles are definately varying greatly, from a hero in castle armor all the way to the various demons, mouslings to dragons. The only ones that really look dated to me are the skeletons, though I think the finer nature of some modern skeletons not translating well to Bones.
Velocithrax really has a strong mid 90s GW feel to it. The pose as well as the comedy oversize paws.
The nostalgia is nice, but he is very dated. I hope Reaper will have some new sculpts.
None of the dragons have been particularly interesting actually. Narthrax is ok , I guess, but again, there's something weird about his hands. Alas nothing is filling that Kaladrax sized hole in my heart. Boohoo.
Stylistically I would agree. That particular dragon is really more of a European fantasy dragon...not something you would find in the various D&D books from, well, ever.
Technically though, you dont see a lot of the same material and technique issues that you find on 1980s and early 1990s metal figures. The angle makes it look more comical than it is as well.
Not the silly putty dragons (and other sculpts of the 1980s. I think the closest in form to this one would have been the Wyvern from the Dragon of the Month club Grenadier did:
While it was top of the line at the time, those are not these, not by a long shot. And although I am pretty sure this will be the first goal I am not pleased with...it isnt because I think it looks like a throw back to then, rather to me, who grew up with Elmore and Caldwell dragons...it doesnt look like a dragon.
However, it is definately in the same vein as GWs dragons, and I am sure that you will see them used as Counts as for people who like GWs take on dragons.
As opposed to an "obscure roleplaying niche that hasnt been catered to since 2nd Edition D&D"...you know something like this:
Sometimes I do wax nostalgic for the artwork of that period...actually, I always do.
I wasn't talking about dragons when I used that phrase. I was talking about Reaper's "_________ Minis We Want to See" threads, which are full of things like "a half-gnome village idiot with a spatula riding a pignagel. (10 people like this post.)" Look at the posts that are just dozens of links to Reaper's most embarrassing mistakes.
And for the record, Verocirax is by far the worst dragon they've put up. Appealing to fans of GW's abandoned S-dragons is probably a lost cause, considering GW themselves have phased them out. The Big V looks like Pete's Dragon with osteoporosis and an eating disorder.
But what do I know? I only got into minis in 2003, so much that came before that period looks tacky and sad to my non-rose tinted glasses. Also, I find that dragons should either look like the works of Elmore, Parkinson, Todd Lockwood, Bob Eggleton or Michael Whelan, or they should look like someone who grants Goku's wishes. GW S-dragons just look like a horribly confused mish-mash of two different creatures.
That is pure speculation! I'd be very hesitant to pledge for that model... from what I've seen of Bones, there's a very good chance it'll be wobbly with how tall and thin it is.
Just someone mentioning adding wires to them (and not the reverse) is not nearly enough to put my mind at ease about that... i.e. there is no indication from them at all that they are doing anything other than casting it like everything else, which means it'll be a risky proposition.
Image for reference... note the complete lack of their saying anything like "now supported by wires!"
I agree. I don't see this particular figure holding it's shape or being able to support itself. Hot water doesn't always do the trick with Bones, as the Bugbear I have here who has a mace that absolutely refused to "reset" to straight despite repeated hot waterings will attest to.
In that update they talk about people cancelling their pledges due to the shipping. I find it interesting that it's already become enough of an issue that they're actually responding to it. I certainly won't be sending them a random guesstimate to cover my shipping, though. They can send me a shipping invoice for the exact amount when it's ready to ship if they want to go with actual shipping. Rereading that,it sounds more angry or whiny than it's intended to. I simply don't see a guesstimate via a weight calculator as something that's going to be accurate when the figures actually arrive in 2014, so it'll entail either sending them a "top-up" for X amount or asking for a refund for Y amount (good luck!) . Easier to just pay it once and properly (and not 12 months in advance). If they went with a flat amount of whatever, then I'd naturally pay it now.
