And now - to start your final week off in the right spirit - a Trick Card! That's right, another surprise Stretch Goal!
If we can reach $2 Million raised - we'll add Another Bag O' Bases! These 2-inch bases are suitable for Large miniatures, and will be made from a sturdier plastic than our normal Bones material. They feature a flat surface on one side and a raised lip on the other - perfect for gaming or creating elaborate scenes! (Additional sets can be selected via the Pledge Calculator)
And what's on tap next? Expansion Two - Part Two!
And of course, after this - we're revealing Expansion 3, Part Two!
The second part of this Expansion features a brood of Tentacled aliens! Three fierce Bathalians - the Exarch, Primarch, and Centurion, and three ray-gun wielding Kulathi!
But there's More to come!
We've still got more coming for the Core Set!
More Options!
More things to fill out the Expansions!
But we need your help to achieve these new goals! Be sure to follow us on Twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, talk about us on every forum you can, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation! The more backers we get, the more sweet rewards we unlock for you!
To make it easier for you to track, Dark Purple images will be added to your Core Set, Light Purple are Extra copies of those rewards, Ochre ones are Expansion 1, Orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background, and Expansion Set #3 is Red!
If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you were pledging for, but it's flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time! For help with the Pledge Calculator - please see our FAQ on the Home Tab.
THANK YOU!
~Reaper
Well, I guess it won't be a full terrain expansion after all...
The Kulathi are almost not-Genestealer Hybrids too (yeah, I know they look very different to the original hybrids, but I could still see them working, especially if kitbashed with Guard and Genestealers).
And now - to start your final week off in the right spirit - a Trick Card! That's right, another surprise Stretch Goal!
If we can reach $2 Million raised - we'll add Another Bag O' Bases! These 2-inch bases are suitable for Large miniatures, and will be made from a sturdier plastic than our normal Bones material. They feature a flat surface on one side and a raised lip on the other - perfect for gaming or creating elaborate scenes! (Additional sets can be selected via the Pledge Calculator)
And what's on tap next? Expansion Two - Part Two!
And of course, after this - we're revealing Expansion 3, Part Two!
The second part of this Expansion features a brood of Tentacled aliens! Three fierce Bathalians - the Exarch, Primarch, and Centurion, and three ray-gun wielding Kulathi!
But there's More to come!
We've still got more coming for the Core Set!
More Options!
More things to fill out the Expansions!
But we need your help to achieve these new goals! Be sure to follow us on Twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, talk about us on every forum you can, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation! The more backers we get, the more sweet rewards we unlock for you!
To make it easier for you to track, Dark Purple images will be added to your Core Set, Light Purple are Extra copies of those rewards, Ochre ones are Expansion 1, Orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background, and Expansion Set #3 is Red!
If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you were pledging for, but it's flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time! For help with the Pledge Calculator - please see our FAQ on the Home Tab.
THANK YOU!
~Reaper
Well, I guess it won't be a full terrain expansion after all...
They had stated that #3 would be Chronoscope modern and sci-fi earlier.
Along with the Numenera beasties, there is starting to be a pretty good alien menagerie assortment.
Yep, although I have heard there is more coming - nothing specific on what or when.
Today was a pretty good day overall, should hit the Angels around this time tomorrow and the next goal revealed should be a freebie add-on to the core and possibly an option (thinking possibly some of the werewolves or maybe that big gorilla from the hints I have been getting).
It is starting to get a bit more difficult to track all 4 forks on the goals though. Expansions #2 and #3, Core and Options. They will be trying to space out the goals for all three to keep them close to one reveal a day going into the last week.
For those who are tracking that sort of thing, right now if all the revealed goals are met - there will be 267 miniatures, 70 bases, 24 paints and a figure case if you got one of everything. The figures end up being at $1.66 each for a total cost of $444 (not including pledges for paints the case or shipping, customs, taxes...).
Many of those figures are really rather large (dragons, giants, demons, various squid things...) so while not quite at the same level as the first campaign yet - it will probably be a better value compared to final retail price or when comparing retail metal to retail Bones.
I'm rather disappointed that there weren't any new reveals in this latest update. Hopefully within this coming week we'll be able to surpass the previous KS.
Oct 19, 2013
$2,000,000! LAST WEEK BEGINS!
13 comments
15 likes
Thank you so much everybody! We've just completed raising $2,000,000 (and 50 Updates!) and we still have a week to go! This means that we're going to include 20 2" bases in every core set!
And now, we're $40,000 from Unlocking the Angels in Expansion Set 2!
After that, we'll start on The second part of Expansion Set 3!
But there's More to come!
We've still got more coming for the Core Set!
More Options!
More things to fill out the Expansions!
But we need your help to achieve these new goals!
Be sure to follow us on Twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, talk about us on every forum you can, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation! The more backers we get, the more sweet rewards we unlock for you!
To make it easier for you to track, Dark Purple images will be added to your Core Set, Light Purple are Extra copies of those rewards, Ochre ones are Expansion 1, Orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background, and Expansion Set #3 is Red!
If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you were pledging for, but it's flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time! For help with the Pledge Calculator - please see our FAQ on the Home Tab.
The bases were not a regular stretch, they were one of the "trick cards"...with likely 2 more of those coming in the next week or so. We were shown the squids this morning and will get the next reveal in $33K.
Sean_OBrien wrote: The bases were not a regular stretch, they were one of the "trick cards"...with likely 2 more of those coming in the next week or so. We were shown the squids this morning and will get the next reveal in $33K.
I know. It's still an update though. I'm quite satisfied with the introduction of all these bases. It saves me a little extra cash to get them something to stand upright on- it cuts down on balance issues(when they exist).
I'd need to see them in person. There's also Wargames fFactory, but those are true 28mm scale, like Foundry scale.
Sway wrote: As much as I don't understand people waiting to pledge until late in the game, I really REALLY don't understand people dropping out this early.
Whether or not you think the deal is worth it right now, the deal is only going to get better.
Yeah, but without seeing what you're getting, why buy sight sunseen? What I'm seeing now is very underwhelming? WTF am I going to do with a big kraken figure or a big turtle-man?
In fairness, I'm sure fantasy players hated the IMEF marines and Chronoscope figures, but the first kickstarter gave you a little taste of everything.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm really looking forward to more troops and cavalry. But, as Azazel pointed out, this round of Reaper KS Magic feels like a lot less of a great deal.
It's still a great deal in the strictest sense - and in raw numbers/size, but the "grab-bag" element that worked so well in Bones 1 works a lot less well when the price is more than doubled. With the first campaign, there were a lot of figures that I'm not especially interested in, but at the price? Sure, whatever, I'll take them, no problem. This time around, the figures I don't want are almost as relevant as the ones I do want - like Expansion 1 - only interested in about half of them. So while on paper, it's still a deal - is it worthwhile for me to buy them all, pay for them all to ship, and a year in advance? I'm just not sure yet. Especially when there's a lot of other things I could do with that money right now...
KS2 is like, what, a million dollars and 50 models ahead of where KS1 was at the same point?
But that's why KS1 made 75% of it's money in the last few days... a lot of complaining that 90 cents is just too much to pay for a miniature! But when it's 75 cents, i'm all in!
Yeah, but when the figures are stuff like dwarf riders, riding a bear while holding a toilet plunger, turtlemen, and were-sharks and stuff, it's just a bizarre deal. Why not include the werewolf and ghost that are already available in Bones? Maybe some skeletyon or orcs?
Okay, what the hell is this? I'm anerd, through and through, but I have no idea what Numenera is. Apparently it involves gribbly figures no-one running a standard D&D game has heard of. If they tossed in some Darsun psionic guys or Ravenloft gothic figures, I'd groan ad get over it. But this? This, I have no idea of.
The bases are good in that almost everyone will need them anyway, and also it allows Reaper to get their feet wet with plastic production in house and start to do costing calculations for production in Texas versus China.
Plus, once things get rolling, those can end up evening out sales as the molds will cost significantly less so they will start to see real profits sooner.
While I would be very happy to see a Bones KS3, I think this will be the last general purpose KS fro them. They have been talking about a CAV KS campaign though to expand the options there and the possibility of doing those in HIPS as kits with all the options. Not sure if that has gone much further though as it isnt in my scales, so I never bother to press for details on them.
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Okay, what the hell is this? I'm anerd, through and through, but I have no idea what Numenera is. Apparently it involves gribbly figures no-one running a standard D&D game has heard of. If they tossed in some Darsun psionic guys or Ravenloft gothic figures, I'd groan ad get over it. But this? This, I have no idea of.
Sway wrote: As much as I don't understand people waiting to pledge until late in the game, I really REALLY don't understand people dropping out this early.
Whether or not you think the deal is worth it right now, the deal is only going to get better.
Yeah, but without seeing what you're getting, why buy sight sunseen? What I'm seeing now is very underwhelming? WTF am I going to do with a big kraken figure or a big turtle-man?
In fairness, I'm sure fantasy players hated the IMEF marines and Chronoscope figures, but the first kickstarter gave you a little taste of everything.
I don't think you understand what I'm getting at here. You're not buying sight unseen. You're promising to give them your money once you have seen the product (stretch goals). And that promise is entirely non-binding. You don't lose any money for another 7 days and when that last day hits you can decide to drop out with zero penalty. So why drop out now? You gain nothing.
KS2 is like, what, a million dollars and 50 models ahead of where KS1 was at the same point?
But that's why KS1 made 75% of it's money in the last few days... a lot of complaining that 90 cents is just too much to pay for a miniature! But when it's 75 cents, i'm all in!
Yeah, but when the figures are stuff like dwarf riders, riding a bear while holding a toilet plunger, turtlemen, and were-sharks and stuff, it's just a bizarre deal. Why not include the werewolf and ghost that are already available in Bones? Maybe some skeletyon or orcs?
You've mentioned that you're mostly interested in the sci-fi models. For all you know, every stretch goal announced from here on out will be sci-fi the whole way. I'm not saying you're stupid for not backing the kickstarter. What I don't understand is why you would pledge early and secure the early shipping date and then drop out before you know the extent of what you're choosing not to buy. The money doesn't go away until the end. Dropping out last week is the same as dropping out on the last day. So why not wait and see what happens?
The risk vs reward here just doesn't make sense. Your risk for dropping out now vs dropping out on the last day is that you might decide on the last day that actually those stretch goals are looking pretty great and you want to stay in. You'll still be able to buy the product, but you'll get it much later. The reward for dropping out now vs dropping out on the last day is literally nothing.
I'd love an entire expansion being sci-fi and filling out. My only other wish is that expansion backs end up having their individual groups of miniatures available as options like the core options.
frozenwastes wrote: I'd love an entire expansion being sci-fi and filling out. My only other wish is that expansion backs end up having their individual groups of miniatures available as options like the core options.
It can be hard to see...but look closely at the logo of Expansion #3
Spoiler:
4 more goals to fill it out should make it pretty tasty with modern and sci fi stuff. They have pulp and Weird West covered already. Perhaps some reinforcements for the existing sci fi figures?
Also, going a bit over $2k per hour, so the next reveal should be in 5-6 hours.
We've hit the next goal and revealed a new stretch goal:
We have now Unlocked the Angels in Expansion Set 2!
Next up - The Tentacular Aliens in Expansion Set 3!
And following this - We Bring to you Mashaaf - Great Old One!
She's a great enormous worm-like creature, suitable as a Lovecraftian horror, the Demon Lord of Charnel Grubs, or the Mother of all Devouring Worms! Once we reach $2,275,000, she can be yours by simply increasing you pledge by $12!!
But there's More to come!
We've still got more coming for the Core Set!
More Options!
More things to fill out the Expansions!
But we need your help to achieve these new goals!
Be sure to follow us on Twitter @Reapermini, talk about the Kickstarter using #ReaperBones, Like us on FaceBook, talk about us on every forum you can, and join our forums at reapermini.com/forum to join in the conversation! The more backers we get, the more sweet rewards we unlock for you!
To make it easier for you to track, Dark Purple images will be added to your Core Set, Light Purple are Extra copies of those rewards, Ochre ones are Expansion 1, Orange ones will be available as additional rewards simply by increasing your pledge, Expansion Set #2 is on a Blue background, and Expansion Set #3 is Red!
If it gets overwhelming the Pledge Claculator can help you keep track of it all at https://ks.reapermini.com/ It saves your pledge, so you don't have to remember what you were pledging for, but it's flexible enough that you can make changes to your pledge at any time! For help with the Pledge Calculator - please see our FAQ on the Home Tab.
If it stalled here I probably would to be honest. We're still below the value of miniatures I like vs. the cost. Right now I'd be paying over retail for the figures I like from the main set. But I'm willing to stick it out till the last day
Hulksmash wrote: If it stalled here I probably would to be honest. We're still below the value of miniatures I like vs. the cost. Right now I'd be paying over retail for the figures I like from the main set. But I'm willing to stick it out till the last day
I'm in the same boat. There's plenty here that I want, but if the kickstarter ended today I would decrease down to a 1 dollar pledge with addons. But I'm expecting more to be added before all is said and done.
Won't there be be any more "1$" level pledges avalaible? I really wanted to take part in this at the 100* level for all the goodies but life decided it was about time to be broke as heck .
I hoped I could at least get that sexy kraken to lessen my sadness but it seems I don't deserve it!
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Won't there be be any more "1$" level pledges avalaible? I really wanted to take part in this at the 100* level for all the goodies but life decided it was about time to be broke as heck .
I hoped I could at least get that sexy kraken to lessen my sadness but it seems I don't deserve it!
If there aren't any open right now, you might send a message to Reaper. They usually open them in batches of 2000.
Edit- my bad, it's the core pledges they open in batches of 2000. Not sure what they're doing with the $1 add on level.
I'm a bit surprised the massive end of campaign spike doesn't seem to have kicked in yet. I'm starting to question whether we'll get quite the spike as Bones 1. I guess it makes sense for the sequel to get more backers early and less late.
Comparing the Kicktraq data for Zombicide 1 and 2, Zombicide 1 saw most of its money in the last week while Zombicide 2 had a much more shallow spike that really only started in the last 3 days.
I just want to note that you don't HAVE to wait until the pledge manager to add money beyond the first dollar. It will help the kickstarter if you add the money now and when the Pledge Manager is released you will have the chance to tell Reaper how to allocate that money. For example, pledge $28 and the Pledge Manager will let you tell Reaper that the money is $1 pledge, $15 for the Kraken, and $12 for Narthrax.
Of course, if money is tight right now, you will be able to add money later. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But again, if you have the means, more money now means more stretch goals.
Of course, if money is tight right now, you will be able to add money later. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But again, if you have the means, more money now means more stretch goals.
That's the one I was after!
I am, sadly, a veteran of far too many Kickstarters - but not any from Reaper.
I'm only in for some add ons, as the core set is an amazing deal but I don't have any current or looming uses for 150+ mostly fantasy figures. That said, I'm keeping an eye on this one, and it's still going at a decent clip for now.
Sure, Bones 1 was doing 100k+ per day for the last 9 days, but there's nothing wrong with 2 million already pledged.
Also keep in mind that backers aren't required to include their S&H fees, so that could be another 100k+, and unlike last time, KS won't necessarily be taking a cut of that as well. It's a pretty smooth choice, wouldn't surprise me if we saw more of that kind of system in the future from other KS's.
Yes, Bones 1 also did 3.4m... but around 2/3 of that was in the last week. Hell, over 1/3 of it was in the last 48 hours.
And honestly, there's the possibility that they felt Bones 1 got a bit out of control and are totally cool with a solid performance. I know everyone loves 'THE BIG WIN, BETTER THAN EVER OMG', but is it not enough to put forth a goal, be successful and deliver on those products in a timely fashion? The staggered release dates on the tiers indicate to me that they do want to establish realistic goals and meet them, rather than simply aiming for the stars and getting the apologies and excuse updates ready ahead of time.
They're not just running the campaign, they're managing expectations for the year to come, which seems pretty savvy to me, especially having watched another (1.5m) campaign flounder for months post KS.
Guess I'm coming to appreciate not just an amazing deal from a KS campaign, but also creators who seem to be making sincere efforts to keep things realistic. The transparency they started this campaign with regarding how things went last time (including a breakdown of how the finances obtained were used) was praise worthy in and of itself.
Sway wrote: I'm a bit surprised the massive end of campaign spike doesn't seem to have kicked in yet. I'm starting to question whether we'll get quite the spike as Bones 1. I guess it makes sense for the sequel to get more backers early and less late.
Comparing the Kicktraq data for Zombicide 1 and 2, Zombicide 1 saw most of its money in the last week while Zombicide 2 had a much more shallow spike that really only started in the last 3 days.
In most second (or more) campaigns, you don't see the Hockey stick, instead it is "U" shaped. You have a bunch who get in on the front side and then leave it alone for a month or so while it builds up. They come back in and adjust their pledges in the last few days when Kickstarter sends out the reminder email. You also have more people who are confident and don't need to wait and see as opposed to a KS campaign ran for the first time by a company or ran by an entirely new company.
If you go back and look at campaigns by CMoN, Mantic and others who have run more than one - they all tend to share that same pattern of progression. Big front loading, slow in the middle and the last 3 days it kicks back up again as the early birds adjust their pledges for the options and the fence sitters decide to finally pledge.
Right now Reaper is fully intending to do (almost no matter what) all the stretch goals for the two expansions that are there as well as 2 more additions to the core and 2 more Orange options and the finale piece (not sure if that will be Orange or Core). While it sounds like a lot - they will be squishing and moving around the goals and the values between goals in order to make it happen. Should the money raised not quite cover the actual costs it will end up being something that Reaper eats...so, for those who are concerned that we won't fill out the Chronoscope or the fantasy Expansions or that this is all that is going into the core...there is little concern for that.
I say little - because it would be a big pill to swallow if the numbers just entirely stopped going up now. However, they have a plan of what they want to get into production, and even if things fall short a little...they still intend on putting those into production. If they get more, well, they have things they would like to do - but aren't really planning on it quite yet and those will get tossed in as well.
Above someone mentioned that the current pledge level is too close to retail price for them to pledge. Even with $50+ shipping to the UK, it's still 100 miniatures for $150. The cheapest bones sku is 1.99, with most being 2.49 and 2.99. So the current $100 pledge level is still around what most stores would pay on a wholesale account. And if you're in the US, it's even better as you don't have the big shipping charges.
EDIT: After I saw my friend's Cthulhu last KS, I really regretted not going in on a second one with his pledge. So I think I will get this new great old one if it becomes available (and I fully expect it to).
I mentioned that the models "I currently liked" were still above what I could get retail. It's a small distinction but important. I realize the retail value vs. the kickstarter price is a steal but I'm only interested for items I might use or paint and there aren't quite enough in the base set yet to make the $100 up front worth it in comparison to retail price.
My assumption is Ebay will be a glut with models once these come in. And the discount cost of the models isn't high enough to offset the shipping costs the buyers would incur. And I don't like to back something based on possible resale value
It's possible they'll hold a significant resale value, but I imagine selling them as a partial lot (as opposed to the full Core set) might not be as easily done, or might involve selling piecemeal, which would be significantly more work, in terms of both listing dozens and dozens of figures, and potentially shipping out to dozens of people who might only buy a few apiece.
It's also a bit of a gamble. Bones 1 was massively successful and obviously some people made some money back (if not an outright profit) selling models on the secondary market, but that also means there's the potential that more people try to do the same, which means there may indeed be more of a glut, but at the same time the demand for cost effective minis seems to be pretty bloody high too.
So yeah, Kickstarter speculation is something I'm interested in, have given a lot of thought to, but haven't done much. The only place I have so far has been on the Robotech miniatures Kickstarter from earlier this year, since rounding up from 7 'boxes' to 8 effectively cost $90 and I've estimated the MSRP value of said box to be around $550 (probably 450-500'ish in a shop, with recognition that a bunch of the figures aren't due out until 3-6+ months after the first wave goes to retail, and some of the KS/Convention exclusive figures won't be easily available at all post KS). Looking forward to how that turns out.
Y'know, if the boxes ever arrive in December... January... err, whenever the hell they actually get made.
CptJake wrote: Any of you fantasy types willing to sell off your 'Pulp Action' and 'Savage Worlds' portions of the core set?
You're not going to buy the individual core add-ons? One buck shipping US for something *still* below retail doesn't sound bad, even if you drop to a Wave 8 $1 pledge from a Wave 1 $100 one.
Reselling on eBay is a PITA. Prices for Vampires have been holding around $200, and some sellers are selling the add-ons as well, reducing the overall price of the mini's.
The KS is great if you want a "bulk purchase" of mini's, or live in the US. Internationals who want specific miniatures may be better off waiting for the figures to hit the stores. Remember the "12 Days of Reaper"!
I'm currently sitting on a wave 1 core pledge, but does anyone know if I'm obligated to actually get the core set or can I just spend that on upgrades instead? Or do I have to drop to a $1 pledge that will ship much later?
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm currently sitting on a wave 1 core pledge, but does anyone know if I'm obligated to actually get the core set or can I just spend that on upgrades instead? Or do I have to drop to a $1 pledge that will ship much later?
No.. You can use that 100 to subtract the core and then pick your addons..
frozenwastes wrote: Above someone mentioned that the current pledge level is too close to retail price for them to pledge. Even with $50+ shipping to the UK, it's still 100 miniatures for $150. The cheapest bones sku is 1.99, with most being 2.49 and 2.99. So the current $100 pledge level is still around what most stores would pay on a wholesale account. And if you're in the US, it's even better as you don't have the big shipping charges.
EDIT: After I saw my friend's Cthulhu last KS, I really regretted not going in on a second one with his pledge. So I think I will get this new great old one if it becomes available (and I fully expect it to).
Sure, but the kind of economy of scale that this one gives right now requires you to actually want most of the models and the mindset of "probably going to buy most of those anyway" - from the cowboys to the bugbears to the dungeon furniture - and be happy to pay for them (plus shipping, plus VAT for Europeans) and pay upfront a year in advance. So it's not the no-brainer deal that KS1 was which allowed backers to pretty much ignore figures they're not interested in...
Add to that, this was an introduction to Reaper for a lot of people who might have bought what they wanted from the miniature line whilst waiting for KS1 to arrive.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm currently sitting on a wave 1 core pledge, but does anyone know if I'm obligated to actually get the core set or can I just spend that on upgrades instead? Or do I have to drop to a $1 pledge that will ship much later?
No.. You can use that 100 to subtract the core and then pick your addons..
Has this been discussed before? I thought the $1 add on level was for that- add ons. At the core level, you get Core+Add ons. You don't just drop the core to make it an add on level.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm currently sitting on a wave 1 core pledge, but does anyone know if I'm obligated to actually get the core set or can I just spend that on upgrades instead? Or do I have to drop to a $1 pledge that will ship much later?
No.. You can use that 100 to subtract the core and then pick your addons..
Has this been discussed before? I thought the $1 add on level was for that- add ons. At the core level, you get Core+Add ons. You don't just drop the core to make it an add on level.
Although not the intent, Reaper said it was allowed.
If you have a $100 slot, and decide you dont want core but $100 ormore dollars worth of options you dont need to switch to the $1 slot and loose your place in line.
Sweet deal. Now hopefully Expansion 3 gets filled with modern/sci-fi stuff and I can just take two of those and combine them with Deadzone and Mars Attacks for a spiffy XCOM game.
Which will most likely be January 2015, or thereabouts. The shipping times this time arong are among the longest I've ever seen.
Reaper has stated that the spread out delivery goals are intended to give people a realistic idea of how long it will take to ship out (currently) 13k+ backers, but that hopefully they won't need the full time.
Managing people's expectations like that seems to be a good thing, in my opinion. Much better than having 10 or 20 thousand backers clamoring for info because there's been a two week delay or something.
Honestly, I think it's a rather elegant way of managing a simply massive campaign, and wouldn't be surprised to see more campaigns use such a technique in the future.
Hulksmash wrote: So when was the last thing added to the Core that wasn't bases? Seriously it's going to be $550k between free upgrades to the core at this point...
Seriously. Someone said earlier that Reaper had stretched out the expansions to help make it seem like we were unlocking stretchgoals more quickly. I think it's had the opposite effect. Psychologically, it feels like everything is going into these expansions and they're moving far too slowly to be very exciting. Until it's fully unlocked, the entire thing just feels like one big tease. I don't think it would be quite such a problem if only they hadn't tried to unlock two expansion at the same time.
Right now I'm only interested in the chronoscope expansion, and only if they actually add some figures to it. I have a bunch of terrain already, the aliens are okay, but not enough to make it worth $50. If they don't fully unlock it (with good stuff) it just isn't worth getting in my opinion.
Hulksmash wrote: So when was the last thing added to the Core that wasn't bases? Seriously it's going to be $550k between free upgrades to the core at this point...
Around this dollar amount in Bones 1, I think it was about $200,000 between goals, and it went to $400,000 per right after that.
The options in between those free addons helps to pad the production costs and avoid those huge goals. Even so, 150 or so figures for $100 isnt too bad already.
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czakk wrote: Haven't had the chance to do this myself yet, but apparently the translucents (fire from the last set) really pop with just a dry brush.
Transparent PVC inks work wonders. They adhere chemically, and tint it just enough. Highly flammable though while wet...and I hear they cause cancer in California. I used them on the ghosts from Bones one and liked it enough to order a full set of colors for doing the fire elementals as well.
The updates have really started bugging me. They keep saying that they have more core upgrades to add, but when was the last time they revealed a new one? I'm not counting those base upgrades, either. I wish they'd start revealing some new core items.
Barzam wrote: The updates have really started bugging me. They keep saying that they have more core upgrades to add, but when was the last time they revealed a new one? I'm not counting those base upgrades, either. I wish they'd start revealing some new core items.
I get that we all want more stuff for our pledge, but I really don't get this constant refrain.
It is obvious from this campaign that they learned from Bones I and know how much they need for each new set of minis. They broke things down into the Core set and the expansions to prevent them from 'taking a loss' (whether they do or not) on crazy amounts of minis in the core set. Sure, I would love more minis on my pledge, but I get what they are doing. They learned their lesson and are insulating themselves against wild success.
Keep in mind that those base stretches were "trick" cards that popped up in between long stretches.
It looks like we've got nothing but long stretches coming.
Barzam's right though- we haven't seen an actual core stretch since the Under the Sea stretch.
I'm sure Reaper is trying to pace things out and keep things under control. I know things will probably pick back up in the last couple of days, which we're almost at anyways. I hope we see the massive upswing that most campaigns have at the end. It will be interesting to see just how high it goes, because it certainly doesn't feel like much higher at the moment.
Both expansions still have 4 slots left to unlock too. I'm hoping they end up with some more interesting pieces, because neither one is jumping at me as much as the first (then again I've been wanting a dragon turtle and those nefsokar avatars anyways).
My problem is more the fact that they've been teasing that there's more to come, but they haven't shown anything. They've been saying this for a good while now. Pretty much since the undersea stuff was added they've been saying that they have more, but every update since then has shown only paid add-ons. I'd just like them to reveal what the next core upgrade is. I don't care that it's several hundred thousand dollars off.
So what you're saying Sean is that they have increased the amount between goals for free stuff from the first kickstarter by 50%-75%. (i.e. close to 670k between freebies).
I understand they are applying what they learned from the first kickstarter but that doesn't make the wait to see if it's worthwhile to stay any better
Hulksmash wrote: I understand they are applying what they learned from the first kickstarter but that doesn't make the wait to see if it's worthwhile to stay any better
Oh, I agree. I'm still waffling on whether I'm staying in. I have so many minis and our D&D group has really died for a while, so I don't know if I need more. I have a wave 2 that I'm still in, but trying to decide to dump it or not. I'll probably wait until the last day to decide.
Even with the increase in cost to ship to international backers in the Bones I KS, Reaper didn't actually lose money. With international backers paying the US postal subsidy and full international shipping on top, combined with the titanic gaps between stretch goals, I can see Reaper looking at a tidy profit when this KS ends...
It would also be nice to see more stretch goals at once, so there is more chance people will see something they actually want.
CptJake wrote: Right now I'm only interested in the chronoscope expansion, and only if they actually add some figures to it. I have a bunch of terrain already, the aliens are okay, but not enough to make it worth $50. If they don't fully unlock it (with good stuff) it just isn't worth getting in my opinion.
I agree. I was hoping the expansions would be more themed. I was excited when I saw the City Guard. I thought we were going to get a whole expansion of cavalry/army types. Then they added angels, and then tentacles...
The same thing with the Chronoscope expansion. I was hoping for more terrain and pulp/scifi humans. I'm not huge on the Xerg/Nid aliens.
Hopefully further unlocks will be closer to what I had originally hoped.
Joyboozer wrote: So it would seem KS1 had the intention of earning funds to make a product possible, KS2 is a pre order to make a profit possible?
Somewhere in all this someone mentioned they were trying to get more/bigger plastic injection machines in addition to many many more molds tooled for bones.
Joyboozer wrote: So it would seem KS1 had the intention of earning funds to make a product possible, KS2 is a pre order to make a profit possible?
(Not my math, from another very reputable website)
Okay, let's break this down.
1. Pledge at least $1. You can order anything you like that's available. Just want a particular dragon? Pledge $15, chose the $1 option, and when pledge manage comes around say "I want this $15 dragon" and reaper will be all like "Cool, we'll take your pledge and give you the $15 dragon as a reward after we make it."
2. Pledge $100, Get the Core: Curretly sitting at 153 minis and 70-odd bases. Roughly 0.44 per piece, (or 0.65 per mini and the bases are all free, whatever)
3. Pick and chose your Additions: On the orange backgrounds you've got a buffet of choices ranging from $10 to $30. Pick which ones you like, increase your basic pledge by that amount (or TO that amount)
4. The Expansion Sets: Each one is $50.
>Currently, Set 1 is the only complete one (39 figures for $50, or $1.28 apiece for multiple large figures).
>Expansion set 2. is only up to 12 figures for $50 ($4.16 per figure, Fairly close to Bones retail on large figures)
>set 3 which is 10 figures for $50 ($5 per. Again, close to bones retail, and a damn good deal on that terrain.)
------------------------------------------
Even if Reaper has decided to make a better profit this time, this is still quite the deal even in the expansions IMHO.
Joyboozer wrote: So it would seem KS1 had the intention of earning funds to make a product possible, KS2 is a pre order to make a profit possible?
They have the same intention. Earn funds to make a product possible. The difference is that for KS1, they wholly underestimated the response and took a hit on it, there's all sorts of figures on ROW shipping, blah de blah, look it up. This time they are taking a more measured approach so that they can spend more of the money doing what they want to do which is making a product (and future products through new injection molding, etc) possible.
That's not quite accurate Pretre. Without the after survey/pledge manager they still profitted on the first KS. Was it a high profit? Nope. But it was a profit on top of tons of new machines and production.
Hulksmash wrote: That's not quite accurate Pretre. Without the after survey/pledge manager they still profitted on the first KS. Was it a high profit? Nope. But it was a profit on top of tons of new machines and production.
If a company can find a way to give me 250+ minis for $100 and still make a profit. I think they deserve too.
Whatever happened to the sculptor- themed expansions?
I swear they had bandied the idea about of having add ons that were focused on sculpts from one specific sculptor, and that the sculptors would be getting a cut of the sales or something.
Or, maybe I'm just misreading things from way back when and getting myself totally confused in the process.
I've revised my opinion of the Kraken having seen the video, and the dragon looks very nice as well. The ruins look great.
I'll probably wait to get the Bathalians in Bones plastic, regardless of cost. I have concerns about the shipping containers being messed up, I have no use for a not-Tardis, and $50 for some Bathalians is pretty steep.
Also, still no IMEF marines...
Mashaaf looks great, a great addition to fantasy, sci-fi, or maybe a nurgle army.
I wasn't impressed with the translucent stuff from the last KS, and I have no use for clear purple demon dogs, although the big demon sketch looks nice.
I don't think you understand what I'm getting at here. You're not buying sight unseen. You're promising to give them your money once you have seen the product (stretch goals). And that promise is entirely non-binding. You don't lose any money for another 7 days and when that last day hits you can decide to drop out with zero penalty. So why drop out now? You gain nothing.
The question here isn't, "Why drop out?" it's why pledge at all? None of this stuff looks especially good. The $50 add-ons are hit-and miss at best.
Sway wrote: For all you know, every stretch goal announced from here on out will be sci-fi the whole way.
Seriously? This is rank speculation and you know it. 90% of everything Reaper makes is fantasy. I understand there's not a lot of d20 Modern/Future, Infinity, or AT-43 players out there, but the IMEF can be sculpted from blanks very easily - they all have the same legs torso and head.
They could make a modern/future/chronoscope add-on that's a little more useful than what you get now, or make figures avalable from the last kickstarter, or current Bones figures available again. Maybe give you a gift card for store credit that can only be used on Bones figures.
Hulksmash wrote: That's not quite accurate Pretre. Without the after survey/pledge manager they still profitted on the first KS. Was it a high profit? Nope. But it was a profit on top of tons of new machines and production.
*machine
They managed to get one machine after the first kickstarter.
Hulksmash wrote: That's not quite accurate Pretre. Without the after survey/pledge manager they still profitted on the first KS. Was it a high profit? Nope. But it was a profit on top of tons of new machines and production.
*machine
They managed to get one machine after the first kickstarter.
Yeah, I think the hope was to get more manufacturing here which seems to be the focus here.
I don't think you understand what I'm getting at here. You're not buying sight unseen. You're promising to give them your money once you have seen the product (stretch goals). And that promise is entirely non-binding. You don't lose any money for another 7 days and when that last day hits you can decide to drop out with zero penalty. So why drop out now? You gain nothing.
The question here isn't, "Why drop out?" it's why pledge at all? None of this stuff looks especially good. The $50 add-ons are hit-and miss at best.
That... is certainly a question. It is quite specifically not the question I was addressing however. If you're not looking to get in on this, I totally understand that mentality. If you're patiently waiting on the sidelines thinking that it doesn't look good now, I understand not pledging. I was quite specifically addressing my post at people who are on the fence or who have already pledged. If you're on the fence, pledge now and decide later whether or not to keep your pledge. If you've already pledged, keep the pledge until the last day and then decide.
Sway wrote: For all you know, every stretch goal announced from here on out will be sci-fi the whole way.
Seriously? This is rank speculation and you know it. 90% of everything Reaper makes is fantasy. I understand there's not a lot of d20 Modern/Future, Infinity, or AT-43 players out there, but the IMEF can be sculpted from blanks very easily - they all have the same legs torso and head.
They could make a modern/future/chronoscope add-on that's a little more useful than what you get now, or make figures avalable from the last kickstarter, or current Bones figures available again. Maybe give you a gift card for store credit that can only be used on Bones figures.
Again you seem to be deliberately misinterpreting me. That was rampant speculation. But that's the point. We can only speculate about what is to come. Again, I was specifically addressing a few posters who had already pledged and were pulling out because they didn't like what they had seen so far. They were speculating that the project would not get any better. I was offering a counter speculation. Neither is based on any truth because we can't know the actual truth until Reaper shows us all the stretch goals and the backers show us the final dollar count.
Hulksmash wrote: That's not quite accurate Pretre. Without the after survey/pledge manager they still profitted on the first KS. Was it a high profit? Nope. But it was a profit on top of tons of new machines and production.
*machine
They managed to get one machine after the first kickstarter.
It's worth noting that I don't blame them for trying to turn a profit, or buy new equipment, I just don't think the offerrings are as good here.
I also notice that there's just four days left. At this time during the last KS, people were going bananas, spamming message boards, trying to get people on board.
I think splitting the KS into add-ons hurt the kickstarter.
If you don't like the odd figrues you got, you simply flipped them on ebay. Kaladrax sells for $40 on ebay, he's $75 at retail.
Here not wanting the figures just leads to people not pledging.
I swear they had bandied the idea about of having add ons that were focused on sculpts from one specific sculptor, and that the sculptors would be getting a cut of the sales or something.
Or, maybe I'm just misreading things from way back when and getting myself totally confused in the process.
Wasn't it mentioned in the video(after he went over each expansion) that each add-on like the rats and nemerians are all from the same sculptor? So although they don't mention the sculptor by name, each add-on is actually themed?
I was rather hoping for some more of their Warlords stuff getting put into Bones. And more Chronoscope. But, I guess the people who wanted more generic monsters won out. I suppose I'll never get some college student figures in plastic.
I swear they had bandied the idea about of having add ons that were focused on sculpts from one specific sculptor, and that the sculptors would be getting a cut of the sales or something.
Or, maybe I'm just misreading things from way back when and getting myself totally confused in the process.
I had heard that...I just didnt hear that from Reaper. Not sure if the person who said that first heard it from Reaper or was wishfully thinking for Klockenbooty.
There is still 4 full days left on this though, so it is still possible that they might put something out like that I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: Is that ruined tower thing that was linked earlier part of this somehow?
Yes. Pretty well confirmed more than once by Reaper now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Barzam wrote: I was rather hoping for some more of their Warlords stuff getting put into Bones. And more Chronoscope. But, I guess the people who wanted more generic monsters won out. I suppose I'll never get some college student figures in plastic.
Expansion #3 is all Chronoscope. Still has 4 more goals in it.
Joyboozer wrote: So it would seem KS1 had the intention of earning funds to make a product possible, KS2 is a pre order to make a profit possible?
That's basically what I said a page or two earlier.
It would be silly to think a business would try to do things to not make profit possible...
However, I would also be very surprised if Ed and company were just trying to make a fat pile of cash to stuff their mattresses with. They would like to be able to expand operations even more than they have. Add additional US based manufacturing capabilities. Possibly even have a little left over to finish retooling CAV. When all is said and done, each employee will likely get a Christmas bonus, but I doubt it will be more than 4 figures.
The Mashaaf figure looks good, now that I see the sculpted version.
Sean_OBrian has another good point about CAV. I'm sure if they tossed in a Cav figure to the basic pledge, they'd piss off all their fantasy players, but giving a few away to build interst in the game might not be a bad idea. I bought a handful of figures when it came out, but later sold them when it became obvious no-one played the game. Everyone seems to love the Dictator, even fantasy players might not mind getting one. Same with including modern and futuristic figures. It might be worth it to include a few fantasy player characters, moderns/futuristic and CAV figures instead of just monsters.
I'd rather they go back to making a "sampler platter" than catering to the whims of some grognardy fantasy die-hards
Another trick card - A sophie added to the core set - 28mm, made of bones, $2 dollars per if you want extras:
We're coming down to the last few days, and it's time to get serious! Spread the word on every forum, Tweet it from the heavens, Facebook about it, Upvote us on Reddit, and put us in your Dash on Tumblr!
I'd rather they go back to making a "sampler platter" than catering to the whims of some grognardy fantasy die-hards
Not sure how much more of a sample platter it can get. Sure, the majority of the figures are fantasy - but so is the majority of Reaper's catalog. Out of 4,000 or so SKUs, less than 300 of them are Chronoscope.
So far we have 16 miniatures that are definitely not fantasy, 4 non-fantasy terrain items, a couple of dozen things which would work well for any number of sci-fi, horror or other non-fantasy games. There are still another 4 goals left in the Chronoscope expansion too (which will mean another 16-20 non-fantasy figures). Bones 1 added 25 Chronoscope figures to the catalog - so, unless I am missing something, that seems to be a better deal for the non-fantasy gamer.
That isn't to say I wouldn't like to see more sci-fi stuff in this KS campaign, or even see more wargaming specific stuff. However, I do think that it is important to look at the whole. If you don't want fantasy, you can pick up Expansion #3 and the couple of non-fantasy options from the Core. Depending on how you work it, it would likely still be a smaller hit to the wallet than last year and you wouldn't have all those extra fantasy figures. For overseas backers, it would also mean a smaller shipping cost too.
czakk wrote: Another trick card - A sophie added to the core set - 28mm, made of bones, $2 dollars per if you want extras:
We're coming down to the last few days, and it's time to get serious! Spread the word on every forum, Tweet it from the heavens, Facebook about it, Upvote us on Reddit, and put us in your Dash on Tumblr!
Oh wow, one whole figure...
I know they're trying to make more money of this one, but the next reward had better be killer.
That great old one looks nice, though I am not sure I need another with Cthulhu Wars coming...
I am going to have to decide on what I am getting from this soon. I am still unsure if I want the core set, but I want the ruins when they are revealed (if they aren't too expensive) and a few parts of the core set and extras, including the 3rd expansion, if the other parts are good. I was interested in the 2nd expansion when it looked to be cavalry and troops, but have lost interest with the reveals.
Same with including modern and futuristic figures. It might be worth it to include a few fantasy player characters, moderns/futuristic and CAV figures instead of just monsters.
I'd rather they go back to making a "sampler platter" than catering to the whims of some grognardy fantasy die-hards
I think they have the category of fantasy PCs well covered; there are around 10 PC figures in the core, and they currently have had 3 expansions for the core set for fantasy PCs with 18 more figures, so they have near 30 PCs by now.
I agree that they should include at least some futuristic figures in the current base offering, as the only non-fantasy figures currently included are Chronoscope pulp and Western.
TzeentchNet wrote:Pretty disappointing stretch goals this time. The first one blew the doors off, this one is a huge "meh."
chris_valera wrote:
TzeentchNet wrote: Pretty disappointing stretch goals this time. The first one blew the doors off, this one is a huge "meh."
Yeah this. It's telling when I'm more excited about getting a deal on paint than the actual figures, which are supposed to be the main draw.
There's no pleasing anyone, but they really should have just given fans a taste of everything, instead of catering to the hoary old fantasy grognards.
--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com
We're also three to four days away from the final rush. They'll want to save the real goodies until then. This is a "between zone" that is just used to get the wait out. First day/last day are for the big rushes and goals.
Transparent PVC inks work wonders. They adhere chemically, and tint it just enough. Highly flammable though while wet...and I hear they cause cancer in California. I used them on the ghosts from Bones one and liked it enough to order a full set of colors for doing the fire elementals as well.
They may still impress. I like the Bones material (it's really good for what it is) but I already have MASSES of semi-detailed figures from Reaper and various board games like Descent. I was hoping for ... well not sure what I was hoping for, honestly. It's not like it isn't a successful Kickstarter, I just wish they had something that would give me a reason to buy-in since I like the company and what they do.
TzeentchNet wrote:Pretty disappointing stretch goals this time. The first one blew the doors off, this one is a huge "meh."
chris_valera wrote:
TzeentchNet wrote: Pretty disappointing stretch goals this time. The first one blew the doors off, this one is a huge "meh."
Yeah this. It's telling when I'm more excited about getting a deal on paint than the actual figures, which are supposed to be the main draw.
There's no pleasing anyone, but they really should have just given fans a taste of everything, instead of catering to the hoary old fantasy grognards.
--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com
We're also three to four days away from the final rush. They'll want to save the real goodies until then. This is a "between zone" that is just used to get the wait out. First day/last day are for the big rushes and goals.
Meh, it would be nice of there was some consistency. Just add a few figs to the core set, it wouldn't kill them.
It would be nice if there was at least some consistency.
They went for mounted figures, then all of a sudden we got angels and tentacle-beasts. Uh... what?
We got modern terrain, then suddenly sci-fi aliens and stuff
An all-terrain option would also be good. They'd get less orders, but it would be honest in its sales numbers. I missed Itar's Workshop kickstarter, though I would have only pledged for the accessories, so getting some dungeon accessories is nice.
I really think they lost a lot of international backers because of shipping.
I like how they're all "There's still more to come for the Core Set!" then they add in exactly one figure, the Sophie. Then they add on more paid add-ons while talking about how much better the core set is going to get. I'm smh.
I do give them credit, Since they added Sophie, they went gone up two grand in about 10 minutes. Adding more to the core set really is the way to go.
Yeah, I'm getting impatient waiting for these nebulous core enhancements.
I swear they had talked about themed expansions/ add ons before this campaign started. What happened to that?
Also- the sculptor themed sets? Was that just my imagination?
I like a lot of what we're getting, but I would have expected a bit more out of Reaper. Maybe I'm just jumping the gun and they're really going to put on a show in the end.
Plus Shadows of Brimstone and Total Extinction just started and my attention will soon be getting drawn away from Reaper.
I do give them credit, Since they added Sophie, they went gone up two grand in about 10 minutes. Adding more to the core set really is the way to go.
Correlation does not equal causation.
The surge in pledges likely had little to do with Sophie and more to do with the end turn on this type of KS campaign starting up. Normally you see it start to turn up 3-4 days before the final day as people go back and up their pledges and other people finally decide that they want to pledge.
And, I doubt that Sophie is what they have been talking about when they say they will be adding more options to the core. There is a certain amount of patience that is needed when a company is trying to pace the campaign. If they would have done all their free options at the front and then all the paid options after that - we would not have any free items to look forward to at this point since it would just be too costly to add more into the package.
I swear they had talked about themed expansions/ add ons before this campaign started. What happened to that?
Also- the sculptor themed sets? Was that just my imagination?
I like a lot of what we're getting, but I would have expected a bit more out of Reaper. Maybe I'm just jumping the gun and they're really going to put on a show in the end.
Plus Shadows of Brimstone and Total Extinction just started and my attention will soon be getting drawn away from Reaper.
Regarding the sculptor themed sets- Rats, Lords of Darkness, Numeria, Mouslings, etc have all been sculptor themed(as mentioned in the second video). The sculptor is just not being mentioned in the pledge graphic.
71K made yesterday, so the KS is breaking out of its 45K-50K per day average over the last few days.
Reaper said 30% of backers who have used the pledge manager are international, which means a minimum of about 23% of total backers - pretty similar to last time.
TzeentchNet wrote: They may still impress. I like the Bones material (it's really good for what it is) but I already have MASSES of semi-detailed figures from Reaper and various board games like Descent. I was hoping for ... well not sure what I was hoping for, honestly. It's not like it isn't a successful Kickstarter, I just wish they had something that would give me a reason to buy-in since I like the company and what they do.
Yeah this. If i buy the core set and some of the add-ons, it comes to like $200 or $300. But then I take a second look, and none of the figs from the core set are really that appealing. So it's like, why pledge at all?
1) Is Troll Slayer Sophie a 28mm mini?
2) Is she available separately as an add-on?
3) If someone who is getting Expansion #1 doesn't want their Dragon Turtle, I'll buy it from you!
Alpharius wrote: 1) Is Troll Slayer Sophie a 28mm mini?
2) Is she available separately as an add-on?
3) If someone who is getting Expansion #1 doesn't want their Dragon Turtle, I'll buy it from you!
Alpharius wrote: 1) Is Troll Slayer Sophie a 28mm mini?
2) Is she available separately as an add-on?
3) If someone who is getting Expansion #1 doesn't want their Dragon Turtle, I'll buy it from you!
Thanks!
28mm 2$ a pop per extra.
Thanks!
I didn't see her listed on the otherwise excellent and comprehensive 'official' pledge manager, so I wasn't sure...
Alpharius wrote: 1) Is Troll Slayer Sophie a 28mm mini?
2) Is she available separately as an add-on?
3) If someone who is getting Expansion #1 doesn't want their Dragon Turtle, I'll buy it from you!
Thanks!
28mm 2$ a pop per extra.
Thanks!
I didn't see her listed on the otherwise excellent and comprehensive 'official' pledge manager, so I wasn't sure...
I believe Kit was waiting to update the official one until after they were officially unlocked. Keep an eye out on the Dragon Turtle - they have talked about opening up the expansions for duplicates like they did with the core...though I don't know if that is still in play.
Meh. Cinder just got dropped from my pledge. He doesn't look that great.
More Bathalians where I have to get three I'll never use. They should make that big alien/demonspawn model in Bones. Or some big alien beatie. or a Tyranid beastie like a hormagaunt, or the Hudson's Bugs from Defiance Games. People would buy a ton of those. Maybe a big beastie like a RT/40K2-era Carnifex? People would buy that, in plastic.
I salute them for making the big stuff in Bones plastic, but why three Bathalians? How many Bathalians do you need? Are they like a race from some Reaper sci-fi game I'm not aware of? Are they a proxy for anything? A big mutant mind flayer? Who's clamoring for all these Bathalians, so much so, that they had to make three of them. If each figure was available alacarte I could add one to my sci-fi collection just for fun, but three? What the am I going to do with three of them?
Chris, I'm going to be buying multiples of them. Well, of two of them, and a single of the third. They would also make for part of a great Lovecraftian "counts as" Tyranids army as the warriors and Lictors and such.
Plus they are cool as hell. Way cooler than yet another dragon standing there like a dog doing a trick.
chris_valera wrote: Meh. Cinder just got dropped from my pledge. He doesn't look that great.
More Bathalians where I have to get three I'll never use. They should make that big alien/demonspawn model in Bones. Or some big alien beatie. or a Tyranid beastie like a hormagaunt, or the Hudson's Bugs from Defiance Games. People would buy a ton of those. Maybe a big beastie like a RT/40K2-era Carnifex? People would buy that, in plastic.
I salute them for making the big stuff in Bones plastic, but why three Bathalians? How many Bathalians do you need? Are they like a race from some Reaper sci-fi game I'm not aware of? Are they a proxy for anything? A big mutant mind flayer? Who's clamoring for all these Bathalians, so much so, that they had to make three of them. If each figure was available alacarte I could add one to my sci-fi collection just for fun, but three? What the am I going to do with three of them?
Now's a good time to jump in folks. You still have people shuffling and combining pledges over in Europe, the occasional dropped pledge altogether, and Texans volunteering for the later waves since they will be picking up their stuff in person, so Early Waves are coming open fairly frequently, but it is slowing down how often.
Seems like at least wave 3-5 has an opening every couple minutes.
I wonder if the tiered pledges is also keeping people a bit more hesitant. Personally I like the idea of people being given a realistic delivery target, especially across potentially tens of thousands of packages.
But I can see how a later wave 1-2+ months after the first sets wouldn't sit well with some people.
However, on the other hand, it's not realistic to expect 10, 15, 20k+ packages to be sent out within a few weeks from even a dedicated team.
Earth Dragon wrote: Now's a good time to jump in folks. You still have people shuffling and combining pledges over in Europe, the occasional dropped pledge altogether, and Texans volunteering for the later waves since they will be picking up their stuff in person, so Early Waves are coming open fairly frequently, but it is slowing down how often.
Seems like at least wave 3-5 has an opening every couple minutes.
Has Reaper said anything on how they're doing the wave shipping? Just curious, I haven't heard anything on how the shipping waves are going to work. Would picking up a shipment locally defeat the purpose of, or slow down, the wave shipping? I'm assuming the wave shipping is being used to make it quicker for Reaper to process ~2000 orders each wave, then move on to the next wave when done.
I haven't found any details on how they're doing the wave shipping. I mean, what if they had the same problem with the on-time core set and late add-ons like they did with KS1? If you want to pick up stuff locally, pledge at wave 7.
More importantly, thanks for the Dwarven Forge tiles tutorial! (: How long did it take to basecoat your tiles?
And, yes, backers are jumping ship, so early waves are available.
Earth Dragon wrote: Now's a good time to jump in folks. You still have people shuffling and combining pledges over in Europe, the occasional dropped pledge altogether, and Texans volunteering for the later waves since they will be picking up their stuff in person, so Early Waves are coming open fairly frequently, but it is slowing down how often.
Seems like at least wave 3-5 has an opening every couple minutes.
Has Reaper said anything on how they're doing the wave shipping? Just curious, I haven't heard anything on how the shipping waves are going to work. Would picking up a shipment locally defeat the purpose of, or slow down, the wave shipping? I'm assuming the wave shipping is being used to make it quicker for Reaper to process ~2000 orders each wave, then move on to the next wave when done.
Anyone know?
~iPaint
I don't think they are really planning anything special on the shipping - the big issue is really to go through and answer the question of "When is my order going to ship?" ahead of time so that they don't get bogged down on dealing with those issues later on. The 2000 per period is a pretty low bar for them to meet with each wave being about a week and a half long. They have managed to work out a lot of kinks with large batch shipping and their warehouse will actually be complete and setup to store all the new product so they won't be having to pull things out of the shipping containers as they process orders.
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ced1106 wrote: And, yes, backers are jumping ship, so early waves are available.
While some early slots are opening up - I wouldn't quite use that phrase (sounds a bit like the campaign is back sliding). They are still increasing - and at a pretty good pace. Today is already the 4th highest day of the campaign and there are still 3 hours left of pledges for todays total.
Yeah, some early backers may be dropping, but that's not surprising. That happens with every campaign; just as some people wait until the last couple of days to get on board, others join early and wait until the last few days to drop.
The sad thing about this way of doing it is that any who do leave and regret doing so might 'lose their place in line' considerably.
It's just more noticeable here because instead of 5 people leaving from a tier while 12 join, 2 are leaving "wave 3" and 1 is leaving "wave 5" and 2 are leaving "wave 6", or whatever.
I'm sure there'll be a few people gloating about how they joined in the last few hours/minutes or changed their pledge in that time and got in at wave 2 or something.
At this point, you are really just coming across as whining for the sake of whining.
It's not whining it's just that that's a lot of Bathalians they're making, for no ral reason. Three variants of a race? Making big figures and Tyranid stand-ins I understand, but three variants of the same figure?
It reminds me of the "crates" dialogue from Destroy all Humans 2
"Hey, Pox, do you ever notice? There seems to be a lot of crates lying around. Just random crates. I mean, what could they all be for? You can't tell me anybody needs this many crates, just lying around. I guess if they were being used for something, then... then I could understand. So many crates..."
Maybe this grub add-on will be unlocked by the time I get up tomorrow(2.261mil now). Hopefully the next reveal will be something really neat for the core. This scifi stuff is neat and all, but mostly useless for me. I imagine all these fantasy goals are uninteresting to the scifi fans as well.
It's also entirely possible that they're not looking to blow the roof off this thing. Draw people in who feel it's a good deal, set up reasonable expectations for delivery, aim to continue to expand their facilities, build the brand and keep it all doable.
Not every big KS has to be 'zomg the biggest ever!', but at 150 or whatever figures for $100 +S&H, that's pretty solid. I like what they've done in terms of timing on the tiers, and also think the expansions are an interesting idea; a larger scale 'build your own' without going into intricate detail on specific add ons, and even only partially funded, at $50 apiece I wish I could justify snagging some.
And I do think that some people are discounting the end of campaign bump when those "48 hours left" emails go out.
Forar wrote: It's also entirely possible that they're not looking to blow the roof off this thing. Draw people in who feel it's a good deal, set up reasonable expectations for delivery, aim to continue to expand their facilities, build the brand and keep it all doable.
Not every big KS has to be 'zomg the biggest ever!', but at 150 or whatever figures for $100 +S&H, that's pretty solid. I like what they've done in terms of timing on the tiers, and also think the expansions are an interesting idea; a larger scale 'build your own' without going into intricate detail on specific add ons, and even only partially funded, at $50 apiece I wish I could justify snagging some.
And I do think that some people are discounting the end of campaign bump when those "48 hours left" emails go out.
I guessed this was the plan pretty early when they quickly started spacing stretches. It still may get close to $3M, but the deal isn't as great, and many of the models aren't the best of Reaper's catalogue (as those were converted last time). And Reaper is probably happy even at the level they're currently at. There's nice models, but I'm likely to drop from a main pledge to just picking the models I want. Spend less, less clutter, and all models I really want.
So, the mods over there seem to be deleting every post I make now. They got at least three since the new Kickstarter. I'm not sure why. The last post I made was in the Bones You'd Like to See thread, and I posted that I would like to see more IMEF and Nova Corps figures and a giant-sized mech. The post was completely on topic. I guess I'm not part of the old boys' club.
It's not worth pulling my pledge or anything, but it is kind of shocking that their forum is at (sub?)Warseer levels of moderatorship. I wonder if the company is as intolerant and joyless on the inside as they appear to the outside?
chris_valera wrote: It's not whining it's just that that's a lot of Bathalians they're making, for no ral reason. Three variants of a race? Making big figures and Tyranid stand-ins I understand, but three variants of the same figure?
I fully agree, the amount of times I have seen multiple version of a human cleric and thought to myself "Why the hell did there need to be different versions of this? I mean they already have one, isn't that enough? And if someone did want multiples wouldnt they just be happy with having two that looked identical?"
...oh hang on, no I have never thought that. Just because it isn't something that I really need or want right now doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there that would like a par or trio of unique gribblies to throw into an adventure or have as a BBEG.
And you never know, this might be the start of a range of models for some race Reaper want to push, and it was most economically paced at three at a time or some feth I have no way of knowing?
The Bathalien Primarch is a model that I've carried up to the FLGS's cash register multiple times, each time making with the misty Old Yeller eyes, but just have not yet pulled the trigger on the purchase. Now I can afford to get more than one, and with almost no guilt!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, the mods over there seem to be deleting every post I make now. They got at least three since the new Kickstarter. I'm not sure why. The last post I made was in the Bones You'd Like to See thread, and I posted that I would like to see more IMEF and Nova Corps figures and a giant-sized mech. The post was completely on topic. I guess I'm not part of the old boys' club.
It's not worth pulling my pledge or anything, but it is kind of shocking that their forum is at (sub?)Warseer levels of moderatorship. I wonder if the company is as intolerant and joyless on the inside as they appear to the outside?
That is sort of surprising - though I would guess it would be Ladystorm, as she has a bit of a Cartman complex and you might have gotten on her bad side... She isn't a Reaper employee, but likes to think she is from time to time, and gets crazy with deleting posts which she feels are out of line. If you wanted, you could probably get it cleared up with a message to Kit or Bryan as they tend to hold her leash.
The people who actually work for Reaper are pretty good and get punchy from time to time (read some of Ed's posts on Frothers, or the various comments by Ron, Matt, Bryan or Talin in the KS comments).
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, the mods over there seem to be deleting every post I make now. They got at least three since the new Kickstarter. I'm not sure why. The last post I made was in the Bones You'd Like to See thread, and I posted that I would like to see more IMEF and Nova Corps figures and a giant-sized mech. The post was completely on topic. I guess I'm not part of the old boys' club.
It's not worth pulling my pledge or anything, but it is kind of shocking that their forum is at (sub?)Warseer levels of moderatorship. I wonder if the company is as intolerant and joyless on the inside as they appear to the outside?
That is sort of surprising - though I would guess it would be Ladystorm, as she has a bit of a Cartman complex and you might have gotten on her bad side... She isn't a Reaper employee, but likes to think she is from time to time, and gets crazy with deleting posts which she feels are out of line. If you wanted, you could probably get it cleared up with a message to Kit or Bryan as they tend to hold her leash.
The people who actually work for Reaper are pretty good and get punchy from time to time (read some of Ed's posts on Frothers, or the various comments by Ron, Matt, Bryan or Talin in the KS comments).
Yeah I have to agree with Sean on this.. The people at reaper are the best, the mods that run the forums all have complexes at times.. A quick email above their head clears things up most times.. lol..
At this point, you are really just coming across as whining for the sake of whining.
It's not whining it's just that that's a lot of Bathalians they're making, for no ral reason. Three variants of a race? Making big figures and Tyranid stand-ins I understand, but three variants of the same figure?
3 figures which are not the same. The Primarch, Centurion and Exarch are different. You have two which have hand type things and one which has mantis like arms. The Primarch is larger than the other two as well. They work as a good stand in for all sorts of things, and should be handy for doing a space oddity type army, where they make up the core and than something like the big worm and other Lovecraftian inspired critters flesh it out.
Personally I would have preferred 3 different mind flayers - but having fewer than 3 of anything which isn't huge limits there usefulness for wargamers. 3 or more and you can then start mixing things up to make units of them.
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Forar wrote: Not every big KS has to be 'zomg the biggest ever!', but at 150 or whatever figures for $100 +S&H, that's pretty solid. I like what they've done in terms of timing on the tiers, and also think the expansions are an interesting idea; a larger scale 'build your own' without going into intricate detail on specific add ons, and even only partially funded, at $50 apiece I wish I could justify snagging some.
And I do think that some people are discounting the end of campaign bump when those "48 hours left" emails go out.
Keep in mind, it is already the second biggest miniatures KS ever, with almost 65 hours to go. The 48 hour reminder emails always bring in a bunch of backers, and the rate of pledges has been going up quickly. If it doesn't become the biggest, it will definitely be a solid second place for the miniatures category.
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Sinful Hero wrote: Maybe this grub add-on will be unlocked by the time I get up tomorrow(2.261mil now). Hopefully the next reveal will be something really neat for the core. This scifi stuff is neat and all, but mostly useless for me. I imagine all these fantasy goals are uninteresting to the scifi fans as well.
As I had said earlier - Reaper is going to fill out the Expansions completely "No matter what"
Creator Reaper Miniatures 9 minutes ago
@Nrak - we are going to compact the reveals of Expansions 2 & 3, if that helps. Not all at once, more than the original plan. We just don; think of it as struggling... but we do think alike
When we get this last $6K or so to the next reveal, it should be one which inspires more confidence in Expansion #2 and #3 as being worth the $50.
Regards the shipping - just hope they ship international packages in their correct wave rather than "waiting for a magic truck" or "hey, you knoe what, we don't have enough stuff/time/whatever before our next trade show so we are going to ship to all the US backers and ignore international backers for a couple of months".
Was a reasonably early backer last time and am wave 1 this time (ok, originally i think wave 3 but only brcause it took my phone ages to put a pledge through ) and i will be deeply unimpressed if they pull the same crap this time, especially given how much more i have pledged this time and how much i am paying extra for shipping...
Also, did they just halve the number of stretch goal expansions for the sci-fi expansion? Are we seriously supposed to believe that the UFO and some castrated rhinectomized Snorks were expected to make up several hundred thousand dollars' worth of backer excitement?
It comes across like Reaper doesn't believe they can draw this out like they had planned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cyporiean, Asgard minis would have been awesome, but Reaper's trying to sell us this guy instead.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Also, did they just halve the number of stretch goal expansions for the sci-fi expansion? Are we seriously supposed to believe that the UFO and some castrated rhinectomized Snorks were expected to make up several hundred thousand dollars' worth of backer excitement?
It comes across like Reaper doesn't believe they can draw this out like they had planned.
I believe they have saif they would compress stretch goals if required to make sure all the expansions were filled. Hopefullly that will also include all the freebies for core as well
At this point, I assume the next core freebie will look like Trogdor without the consummate V's.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, the UFO will look pretty good after a pilot swap. Reminds me of Godzilla vs Monster Zero.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Aaaaaaand, Reaper Bryan confirms our suspicions.
Jeff Khoury 36 minutes ago
I am glad that they are cutting back the reveals on the expansions. The switch from 3 stretch goals for the complete first expansion to 6 each for two concurrently running expansions really soured folks, as well as doing serious and irreparable harm to the momentum of this project. While trying to get all of these unlocks for expansions, there has been exactly one full (non-trick) unlock for the core in the past millions dollars, without the next one even in sight. KS 1 was lousy with core unlocks during that same funding period.
The core is how you draw in backers. You make the deal just too darn good to ignore. Then, when you hook em, you get them with the add-ons. The problem is that while this core is great, the core for Bones 1 was PHENOMENAL. With all the add-on this, expansion that, and add-on to the expansion those going on, they just ignored the core. Remember, this KS started out gangbusters, and has just been flat ever since. With better core support, they could have ridden that momentum to ridiculous heights. I think Reaper just looked at the success at the tail end of KS1 and just assumed it would be the same, without really appreciating why there was a mad scramble to pledge.
It was because the core of KS 1 was just too good to pass up, and once people were in for the core, they were happy to add more. This KS needs more core support, and it needs it now if they want to build up crazy momentum again. Right now, the tail end of this project is trending way behind the tail end of KS 1 (despite everyone who says so being called a troll) and I'm pretty sure Reaper knows it.
Bryan Stiltz 32 minutes ago
@Jeff Khoury - interesting analysis. We respectfully disagree.
This Core set represents the same monetary value - if you measure value only in terms of quantity, then we welcome you to fond another way to get 150+ models for $100. Otherwise, we are offering $500 MSRP of models for $100, JUST LIKE LAST TIME.
Thank you for telling me what we assumed and didn't, and please do not put words in my mouth.
Bryan Stiltz 31 minutes ago
I should also add that at 68 hours to go last time we still had not even raised @ million... so your math and premise are already flawed.
~~~~~~~~~~
Bryan Stiltz 24 minutes ago
Ok - If people re done telling us how we have failed at Kickstarter and that 150+ minis does not in fact represent a good value... \
Seriously - if all you want to do is tell us that this @2.25 Million dollar project is a miserable failure, please go tell Ed@reapermini (the CEO) that I was mean to you and you'll never back us again etc.
You guys wanted to see Bryanzilla... Here I am.
~~~~~~~
The bad suspicions, obviously.
I'm starting to get a Raging Heroes vibe from this campaign, which just breaks my heart.
I think Bryan makes some fair points, personally! I find his honesty quite refreshing.
Yes, yes, the customer is always right. But if the customer is constantly moaning, trying to haggle for an even better deal, etc., at some point it's pretty fair for the shopkeeper to say, "Look, do you want to buy it, or not? You know the price, and you know what you're getting, and I've answered all your questions. If you don't want it, maybe you should stop hanging around in the shop, annoying my paying customers?"
Well, those aliens have eliminated the 3rd expansion for me. If they looked more like Asgard, then I would be fine with them... but those cheek bones and bodies...
I was hoping for some kind of sci-fi troops as the next part of expansion 3, not deformed greys.
Wow, the company with the business model of 'Make cheap proxies for other people's games' just got undercut by bones by them making 'even cheaper proxy for other people's games'.
When your customer base doesn't seem to care about miniature quality in sculpting, design, scale or casting and is willing to pay you money for models they will 'throw away'... when someone undercuts you, it can't be good.
I just think it is an interesting move for Reaper to make as those had to have been fresh designs.
Hmmm.....I think I'm going to have to figure out if I like any of the specific models groups enough to single them out of the main group...At this point I'm not seeing the core adding enough stuff to grab. The third expansion did just go in the toilet for me as well.
I basically see $43 worth of cash to put down on this (the add-on dragons, sophie, bones, and the sylvan creatures). The rest of the sets or models I'd be interested in individually would just cost me more right now. No biggie. I'll probably be dropping back down to this. Though depending on how the second expansion pops I COULD pick it up. I really like the angels, shadow guys, and the riders and townguard don't stink.
When your customer base doesn't seem to care about miniature quality in sculpting, design, scale or casting and is willing to pay you money for models they will 'throw away'... when someone undercuts you, it can't be good.
I just think it is an interesting move for Reaper to make as those had to have been fresh designs.
Wait. Those martian sculpts are new?!? I thought they were ugly and barely detailed thanks to being old sculpts.
When your customer base doesn't seem to care about miniature quality in sculpting, design, scale or casting and is willing to pay you money for models they will 'throw away'... when someone undercuts you, it can't be good.
I just think it is an interesting move for Reaper to make as those had to have been fresh designs.
Wait. Those martian sculpts are new?!? I thought they were ugly and barely detailed thanks to being old sculpts.
Mind you, they're not exactly old either. They were released in 2011. They're sculpted by Bob Ridolfi, whose work seems to vary between stiff posing and gakky proportions with next to no detail and very high quality practical gaming minis that are some of my favourites in Reaper's catalogue.
Expansion 3 seems to have gotten significantly smaller. I'm not sure how I feel about the Greys. I was initially hoping their existing ones might find their way in. Seeing them now though, I'm not so interested. They do look kind of bad, but maybe it's just the photo? The metal ones don't look quite that bad. Regardless, I don't think I'll be adding any of the expansions after all.
The Mars Attack! Martians at least wear clothes and have a bit more personality. The Mantic game is also using the original cards as its source material, meaning the Martians are human sized instead of diminutive shrimps.
These guys though...
All I can say is I hope for something better around the corner!
Hell. I've only seen one proper lizardman in this whole campaign so far.
So much for a good sci-fi expansion. The IMEF guys are grittier not-gears-of-war miniatures and what do they make to go with them as enemies? Greys. And a 1950s sci-fi flying saucer. Ugh.
There are some great miniatures to choose from in this set, but lumping in the terrain with the bathalians and greys was just a bad move. Hopefully in the last day they make options to pick individual components of the expansions. So the many people who might want the terrain don't have to be saddled with greys that don't match the IMEF in tone.
I had just sold myself on bathalians and the k-whatevers and now they talked me out of it. Guess I'll see what the cargo container retails. Guess I'll leave the extra 50 in and pick up big stuff like mashaaf and hill giants or whatever crazy they tack on the end.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love the burrowing horror, but the charbroil marks on his arms and legs make him look like play-doh sculpted with the side of a credit card.
But, still, the fun kind of play-doh.
Yuah, its really at odds with how nice the rest of it looks.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love the burrowing horror, but the charbroil marks on his arms and legs make him look like play-doh sculpted with the side of a credit card.
Sculptor "Hmmm How can I sculpt scales.... I Know!!! I'll take this piece of netting from the bundle of oranges I bought and press it into the green stuff!!!"
That has to be one of the most poorly sculpted large monsters I've seen in years.
Jeff Khoury 36 minutes ago
I am glad that they are cutting back the reveals on the expansions. The switch from 3 stretch goals for the complete first expansion to 6 each for two concurrently running expansions really soured folks, as well as doing serious and irreparable harm to the momentum of this project. While trying to get all of these unlocks for expansions, there has been exactly one full (non-trick) unlock for the core in the past millions dollars, without the next one even in sight. KS 1 was lousy with core unlocks during that same funding period.
The core is how you draw in backers. You make the deal just too darn good to ignore. Then, when you hook em, you get them with the add-ons. The problem is that while this core is great, the core for Bones 1 was PHENOMENAL. With all the add-on this, expansion that, and add-on to the expansion those going on, they just ignored the core. Remember, this KS started out gangbusters, and has just been flat ever since. With better core support, they could have ridden that momentum to ridiculous heights. I think Reaper just looked at the success at the tail end of KS1 and just assumed it would be the same, without really appreciating why there was a mad scramble to pledge.
It was because the core of KS 1 was just too good to pass up, and once people were in for the core, they were happy to add more. This KS needs more core support, and it needs it now if they want to build up crazy momentum again. Right now, the tail end of this project is trending way behind the tail end of KS 1 (despite everyone who says so being called a troll) and I'm pretty sure Reaper knows it.
Bryan Stiltz 32 minutes ago
@Jeff Khoury - interesting analysis. We respectfully disagree.
This Core set represents the same monetary value - if you measure value only in terms of quantity, then we welcome you to fond another way to get 150+ models for $100. Otherwise, we are offering $500 MSRP of models for $100, JUST LIKE LAST TIME.
Thank you for telling me what we assumed and didn't, and please do not put words in my mouth.
Bryan Stiltz 31 minutes ago
I should also add that at 68 hours to go last time we still had not even raised @ million... so your math and premise are already flawed.
~~~~~~~~~~
Bryan Stiltz 24 minutes ago
Ok - If people re done telling us how we have failed at Kickstarter and that 150+ minis does not in fact represent a good value... \
Seriously - if all you want to do is tell us that this @2.25 Million dollar project is a miserable failure, please go tell Ed@reapermini (the CEO) that I was mean to you and you'll never back us again etc.
You guys wanted to see Bryanzilla... Here I am.
~~~~~~~
The bad suspicions, obviously.
I'm starting to get a Raging Heroes vibe from this campaign, which just breaks my heart.
Wow... the quote Bryan is responding to isn't even mean. He should've just sat on his typing hands... there is absolutely no benefit to responding like that, and of course a lot of drawbacks from a PR / momentum standpoint.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Darn it, now I can't unsee that pattern on his arms and legs guys . Otherwise, I really like that model.
I love how Bryan threw a fit over the very concept of adding more minis to the core pledge to drum up interest. Because the very idea is wrong, you see.
Then the Burrower appeared.
Apparently someone more important than him at Reaper agrees with the whiny, twitter-weaned armchair quarterbacks. Stupid customers, telling Bryan what they would want to buy and bullying Reaper into adding more value to the lackluster Core pledge that the miserable pissons don't even deserve. Where do they get off?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love how Bryan threw a fit over the very concept of adding more minis to the core pledge to drum up interest. Because the very idea is wrong, you see.
Then the Burrower appeared.
Apparently someone more important than him at Reaper agrees with the whiny, twitter-weaned armchair quarterbacks. Stupid customers, telling Bryan what they would want to buy and bullying Reaper into adding more value to the lackluster Core pledge that the miserable pissons don't even deserve. Where do they get off?
It seems most of the other 'cores' have been groups of 10$ worth of figs... That is maybe a 3$ retail fig by itself. I would have expected to see him with 4 or so man-sized figures or 1-2 other mid sized beasties.
I think Reaper has reached a point where I think they are 'good' with what they are releasing. Obviously if they could end it 'right now' I think they would and avoid risking slippage of people who pledged hard and drop because they expect KS1 levels. Lots of 'round 2' KS right now are having slippage issues as people throw down assuming it will be like last time and somehow it doesn't meet their expectations.
It is interesting. People are stingier this year with pledges and want more even though lots of KS lost money or barley broke even the first go around. So it will be interesting to see what happens.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love the burrowing horror, but the charbroil marks on his arms and legs make him look like play-doh sculpted with the side of a credit card.
But, still, the fun kind of play-doh.
Spoiler:
It's actually kind of a homage to the original.
I wish it looked MORE like the original Bulette!
Remember, you don't have to be faster than a Bulette, you just have to be faster than the Halflings in your party!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love how Bryan threw a fit over the very concept of adding more minis to the core pledge to drum up interest. Because the very idea is wrong, you see.
Then the Burrower appeared.
Apparently someone more important than him at Reaper agrees with the whiny, twitter-weaned armchair quarterbacks. Stupid customers, telling Bryan what they would want to buy and bullying Reaper into adding more value to the lackluster Core pledge that the miserable pissons don't even deserve. Where do they get off?
... I feel your sarcasm is misplaced here. I'm assuming these "trick cards" were already planned in advance. They still have not revealed any "normal" additions to the Core pledge, such as numerians, pathfinder iconics, or the rats. I doubt Reaper has bowed to the armchair quarterbacks at all.
If it was planned in advance, wouldn't Bryan have mentioned more surprises coming up?
Besides, whether or not the trick card was planned, you have to admit that Bryan reacted in a very negative manner to well meaning Kiclstarter backers.
I actually don't think the Burrower looks that bad. The body looks well sculpted. It's just those legs. Maybe a bit of GS to cover up the poor sculpting there will make them better?
I kind of think that maybe Reaper should have put the extensions earlier in the campaign. Early on it was like every other stretch was a core upgrade. Maybe showing these off earlier, especially when things were moving at a breakneck pace would've garnered a bit more interest in them and gotten them all unlocked faster.
It is interesting. People are stingier this year with pledges and want more even though lots of KS lost money or barley broke even the first go around. So it will be interesting to see what happens.
I think its just people have started receiving their stuff, and realized they wont be done painting it by the time the next glut arrives. I have a pile of Bones, Darklands, Impact Dungeon Chibis, Deepwars, Sedition Wars, Low Life, etc minis. I have basically the entire line of Relic Knights, Zombicide, Center Stage Tome of Horrors and Demons/Devils, Deadzone, Alien Host coming... at some point, even a good deal isnt enough if there's no chance its going to be painted.
And the packages in this one just werent appealing to me, outside of a few add ons. Anyone who did the first one got a zillion generic humanoid npc guys. I might need 8 lizardmen, or derro, or guards or whatever, but getting another pile of random pc/npc guys a year and change later just doesnt tempt me when I have a pile I'll never get to by then anyways. I'll just get my derro at retail in January 2015, assuming my wife hasnt killed me by then for all the crap I've ordered and not gotten around to.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If it was planned in advance, wouldn't Bryan have mentioned more surprises coming up?
Besides, whether or not the trick card was planned, you have to admit that Bryan reacted in a very negative manner to well meaning Kiclstarter backers.
Hasn't every e-mail and update mentioned more was being added to the core?(not to mention revealing the surprise beforehand defeats the purpose of the surprise).
I will admit that he reacted negatively, but I refuse to call them well-meaning IMHO. Most of what was said in that post was wrong, and Bryan set him straight. I doubt his comments will turn a large number of folks off from this kickstarter. It just doesn't seem to be that big of a deal(to me anyway).
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If it was planned in advance, wouldn't Bryan have mentioned more surprises coming up?
Besides, whether or not the trick card was planned, you have to admit that Bryan reacted in a very negative manner to well meaning Kiclstarter backers.
Link to negative reaction so I can read it please.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If it was planned in advance, wouldn't Bryan have mentioned more surprises coming up?
Besides, whether or not the trick card was planned, you have to admit that Bryan reacted in a very negative manner to well meaning Kiclstarter backers.
Link to negative reaction so I can read it please.
He had copied them above - though I wouldn't call it negative, nor well meaning kickstarter backers.
A lot of the Kickstarter Backers are a bit like those people who go to a restaurant and order a steak. After they eat it all but a bit of gristle they call the manager and complain that they didn't like the food in order to get a free meal out of it. There is a big difference between constructive suggestions and complaining that there isn't enough free stuff in the core package.
ReaperBryan on the other hand gave a very short answer. It wasn't so much rude as it was blunt, stating the position as they saw it...as opposed to the way a particular commenter was making it out to be. Normally he is more diplomatic than that, but it took place at 2 in the morning after he had been up at work all day the previous day and had driven into work in order to post the update
He definitely could have said - "nope, you are wrong" with a smile, but the blunt answer he gave wasn't really rude, so much as it was just blunt. There was no name calling, simply stated that while they appreciated the opinion...the opinion was wrong (both regarding the value of the core set as well as the various aspects relating to the running of a campaign). Amongst other things, it was revealed that the final retail value of the core in this campaign is actually higher than that of the first campaign was when it finished. No doubt that is largely due to the larger average size of figures in the core this time versus the first one.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If it was planned in advance, wouldn't Bryan have mentioned more surprises coming up?
Besides, whether or not the trick card was planned, you have to admit that Bryan reacted in a very negative manner to well meaning Kiclstarter backers.
Hasn't every e-mail and update mentioned more was being added to the core?
Yes. That is why it is really much ado about nothing. They were still planning to add to the core, they just didn't want to have nothing left for today, tomorrow and Saturday when the pledges pick up and more people are watching more closely. Last hour was $10K, and this hour is shaping up to be even higher already. If the rate keeps pace or speeds up even more, they will fill out the remaining "revealed" goals pretty fast (by revealed I mean the rest of the expansions).
They also don't want to have paid options at the very, very end again as if they have a repeat of last year in the final few hours a lot of people will feel like they missed out because the servers bog down or crash.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fenriswulf wrote: Not to mention his legs are shorter than where his head ends up, making burrowing really really difficult.
Not much they could do about that part. The books and art all show it with a "shark" like head that sticks out well past where its legs could reach. They could reengineer the beast, but then it would be lost on a lot of people who expect a land shark to look a specific way.
Granted, I am not a fan of the texture on the legs and think the texture on the belly would look better if it had been extended all the way down the legs. Should be a pretty easy fix though - and then of course a good chance that I will just cut the legs off entirely and have it bursting out of the ground instead.
When your customer base doesn't seem to care about miniature quality in sculpting, design, scale or casting and is willing to pay you money for models they will 'throw away'... when someone undercuts you, it can't be good.
I just think it is an interesting move for Reaper to make as those had to have been fresh designs.
I haven't gone over all of them - but some of them are newish designs looking at them. However, they will have been in the pipeline for quite awhile in order to be ready right now.
In terms of the specific sculpts, they are not that bad - considering the subject matter. Unfortunately, there are not many good descriptions that come from those on the receiving end of the probe. As a result, pop culture descriptions are not the greatest. Making them more delicate would be difficult in the scale - in metal, plastic or resin. These guys are a bit under 1" tall, so those legs and arms are very thin. Once painted up though - they work pretty good for playing games of "They came from beyond the still" or other Rednecks versus Alien games. Not as nice as the Griffin Aliens - but those are long OOP, and were not in large enough circulation in order to be readily available second hand. Other grey alien options are even more comical than these (and Reaper makes a set of those too).
For the Mars Attacks type aliens, Reaper has had those for a good while as well.
Looking at the "Core" pledge versus Vampire, I'm not seeing how this one is really lacking. There aren't as many "dogs and spiders" and seem to have more "Gnolls and Skeletons". People are surely looking at pure model count and going a little over board saying the value isn't fairly comparable as is.
Personally, the only thing I think is lacking is some sort of generic "fantasy human" type figures in the Core, similar to the Guards in Expansion 2. But that is more my preference. Those Expansion packs are also gold in my opinion. They are basically great value bundles. As suggested on KS, you might think about looking up the value of similar bones models to the ones you want in the Expansions, and if you find the two trolls you want are gonna be like $30 anyway, why not put down the other $20 and get a bunch of other models?
In general, I think the bulk of the whiners forget that these modeling companies are businesses and they don't put things into perspective when griping. If you don't like what you see, that's fine, you don't have to buy into it. But when folks start kicking and screaming and start acting like Reaper is just a bunch of capitalist swines because they have an over-inflated sense of how much they should get for $10, that's just ignorant and unneeded rantings.
Here is something else to note for those in for $1:
If you are going to get $100 in add-ons, you can get $100 in add-ons from the "Core pledge" when the manager comes out. This may speed up your delivery time if you are in at Wave 7, 8, 9 for the $1.
For example: If you are wanting to get Expansion 1 and 2, a $10 dragon and the $15 Kraken, that is $125. You can pick those as options with a $1 level or a $100. Since there are more $100 packages with earlier shipping available, it would be benificial to go with the $100 pledge level since you are breaching that limit anyway.
Not sure if it is in the FAQ yet, but it constantly comes up in the comments section and clarified as a possibility by Reaper and staff.
We're going to be adding these two Barbarians sculpted by Kev White of Hasslefree Miniatures to every Core Set at $2,425,000! We're very excited to be collaborating with Kev on this!
Digging the male barbarian. Never been into female models that look like they couldn't pick up the weapon on they're model by a long shot (the same could be said for heroic scale in general, but it always seems more extreme on the ladies).
I wish it was easier to see the individual models in the core. There is just that one picture that is pretty zoomed out and everything is scrunched together. I understand they can't masterclass everything with paint due to time constraints but I wish I could see the goods a little more clearly.
It would be interesting to see a smaller, but more focused starter next time. Like just a ton of monsters. But only monsters. Or all cavalry. Or whatever. Only like 30-40 models for a hundred but less of a scattershot. They probably considered that, I guess they have their reasons.
Silverthorne wrote: I wish it was easier to see the individual models in the core. There is just that one picture that is pretty zoomed out and everything is scrunched together. I understand they can't masterclass everything with paint due to time constraints but I wish I could see the goods a little more clearly.
It would be interesting to see a smaller, but more focused starter next time. Like just a ton of monsters. But only monsters. Or all cavalry. Or whatever. Only like 30-40 models for a hundred but less of a scattershot. They probably considered that, I guess they have their reasons.
Reaper might not even do a third KS for bones. They'd have less and less to gain. KSes damage revenue streams for a while to get that initial boost. If you already have the customer base, there becomes less and less to gain from a KS the larger the customer base grows.
It's the same reason Games workshop has no reason or desire to do a KS.
It's not whining it's just that that's a lot of Bathalians they're making, for no ral reason. Three variants of a race? Making big figures and Tyranid stand-ins I understand, but three variants of the same figure?
I'm not seeing the reason for grief on this point. It's like complaining that there are three different orcs, or trolls, or ogres.
Earth Dragon wrote: Reaper might not even do a third KS for bones. They'd have less and less to gain. KSes damage revenue streams for a while to get that initial boost. If you already have the customer base, there becomes less and less to gain from a KS the larger the customer base grows.
It's the same reason Games workshop has no reason or desire to do a KS.
That's interesting. I can see why that would be the case, too. I guess it is all about marketshare. As a guy that doesn't play DnD (I'm mostly intimidated to join a a group because the only character that speaks to me is a druid, which are apparently OP) it's kinda hard to justify dropping that much fliff on these huge bucket o models. I saw some at my FLGS from the first bones. They were really well done. Without any organic thing to push the sales of models like GW has though... I mean what is their plan long term? It seems like the next move would be going into premium board games like Talisman and just pumping those out. But idk.
Silverthorne wrote: They were really well done. Without any organic thing to push the sales of models like GW has though... I mean what is their plan long term? It seems like the next move would be going into premium board games like Talisman and just pumping those out. But idk.
Thanks for the link also
Reaper mostly sells to RPG players. Their bread and butter customer is someone looking for a specific individual mini to represent their PC, or a DM looking for a bad ass monster to put on the table.
They have a skirmish rules set as well, but it's not that well known afaik.
Yep, replied as I was catching up. Not sure what to do with this one. Expansion 2 could go either way for me. Expansion 3 went down the toilet with those crappy greys and the lack of trust I have on the shipping containers not being warped. (I should get some of the Proxie ones eventually).
The core is ...okay, but not compelling. (lots of stuff there to be sure, but it's a grab bag, and I already have a big grab bag of Bones) and a lot of the $10-add-on packs of figures look like the type that would be the ones that push me into getting the core, except they're add-on sets this time. Expansion 1 I could see keeping if I stay in.
Ultimately, I don't want to spend and can't afford to spend $500 on this stuff again, a year out. (I was in for over $1k on the last one). Maybe I should just let the $100 ride and sort it all out later with the pledge manager.
Earth Dragon wrote: Looking at the "Core" pledge versus Vampire, I'm not seeing how this one is really lacking. There aren't as many "dogs and spiders" and seem to have more "Gnolls and Skeletons". People are surely looking at pure model count and going a little over board saying the value isn't fairly comparable as is.
Personally, the only thing I think is lacking is some sort of generic "fantasy human" type figures in the Core, similar to the Guards in Expansion 2. But that is more my preference. Those Expansion packs are also gold in my opinion. They are basically great value bundles. As suggested on KS, you might think about looking up the value of similar bones models to the ones you want in the Expansions, and if you find the two trolls you want are gonna be like $30 anyway, why not put down the other $20 and get a bunch of other models?
In general, I think the bulk of the whiners forget that these modeling companies are businesses and they don't put things into perspective when griping. If you don't like what you see, that's fine, you don't have to buy into it. But when folks start kicking and screaming and start acting like Reaper is just a bunch of capitalist swines because they have an over-inflated sense of how much they should get for $10, that's just ignorant and unneeded rantings.
I mostly just liked the vampire model selection better.
Also, they're close....but remember you could trade out sophie for $25 of whatever. That's a major difference.
And then there's a 50% price increase if you're not in the States.
I like a lot from this, but I'll probably get it from a $1 pledge.
Yep, RPGs and they are really the go to source for the generic fantasy rules which are fairly popular like the various Song of rules, old school Battlesystem and a number of other crawl type games.
Reaper has built their company by not attaching it too firmly to a specific game system. They do some licensing, but most of their line is good old fashioned generic swords and sorcery which can be used as easily as replacements for board games, RPG minis, skirmish figures or as parts of a larger army.
In the past few years, they have begun to branch out into modern, sci-fi and pulp type figures outside of the fantasy genre...but as cautious accountants, they like to make sure everything is bought and paid for ahead of time.
The core is ...okay, but not compelling. (lots of stuff there to be sure, but it's a grab bag, and I already have a big grab bag of Bones) and a lot of the $10-add-on packs of figures look like the type that would be the ones that push me into getting the core, except they're add-on sets this time. Expansion 1 I could see keeping if I stay in.
Yeah, they loaded the first Kickstarter with their best selling and looking models - for obvious reasons. I still like what's in the core (because I play pathfinder a lot) and can find a use for it all. Same with expansion 1 and 2. Expansion 3 isn't doing it for me yet. Not a whovian or interested in greys.
I feel like this campaign is missing the big show stopping models compared to Bones 1. It needs a Kaladrax or Nethermaul. Hopefully we will get one in the next 48 hours.
Not really interested in the core set. I don't think the Bones material works well on a small scale, only for big models. I bought the core set last time but sold it immediately when it arrived. Don't think I'll bother doing that this time.
yeah, I do think it can be either good or bad on the smaller models, but it truly shines on the medium and large models. That's the only reason Expansion 1 is still looking feasable to me.
I've got a good feeling about Expansion 2 as well. I like the option to just get a couple expansion instead of core. A pair of expansion ones is worth sitting on my pledge alone. I'll likely get more, but REALLY want to see what else is in two.
I put an extra $50 in for expansion 1 mostly because of the last addition (especially the bone wardens and goroloth cause its crazy looking), but I *could* just wait for retail since I'm not crazy for most of the rest of it. I was gonna switch it to expansion 3 but the greys kind of murdered that. Unless some really spectacular stuff goes into expansion 3, its toast for me. Nothing in expansion 2 I actually care for... I'll probably leave the $50 in just in case they do some crazy/awesome end-of-line game changers. If nothing else the Kraken looks ridiculously ridiculous (in a good way), those hill giants are cool, the big worm thing is crazy... I'll find something. Probably not going in for more unless they do something bat-guano insane before it's over though.
Seems like they do it when they're on. Wonder if they're keeping someone at it for the last 48 hours straight (would be a good idea I think). Update 60 did seem to go up after their supposed bed time.
Yes.....Kraken is beyond awesome. Must have for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They are out of $1 pledges at the moment. If anyone is on a dollar pledge and plans on getting $100 in add-ons/expansions, you can use the $100 from a core pledge on anything. Might be nice to open up opportunities for others.
Just throwing it out there. Not looking for the usual "don't tell me what to do" over reaction to a suggestion
They've just said they're working on opening up more. Sounds like they will indeed have someone manning it beyond their usual hours, which makes sense.
Earth Dragon wrote: Reaper might not even do a third KS for bones. They'd have less and less to gain. KSes damage revenue streams for a while to get that initial boost. If you already have the customer base, there becomes less and less to gain from a KS the larger the customer base grows.
Well, the KS "bulk purchase" model is certainly different from the retail individual purchase one, so I'm thinking your average KS with deep pockets is more interested in getting a library / crapload of miniatures he might use for his RPGs, while the retail purchaser is, as said, looking for a specific miniature for next week's game. Reaper said they looked at other KS when designing the current one, and, I'm guessing, if other "$100 for 150 miniatures" KS still do well (cf. MYTH, Zombicide), that would encourage Reaper to run another KS.
OTOH, KS2 may actually generate some of this nebulous "profit", that could be used for more molds. In KS1, their "profit" was a rather astonishing paltry 1.59%, enough for detractors to claim they made money, but more like enough to buy an injection machine (which they're using for the bases), shelves, and warehouse space. Myself, I prefer to call this percentage as "wiggle room" considering all the unknowns that can and did happen in the previous KS campaign (eg. "dumbass taxes").
Reaper has a ridiculously huge catalog of miniatures. They mentioned possible KS for specialized lines, such as CAV, which does have a Bonesium prototype picture somewhere on the 'net. Fairlytale Games has shown a demand for fairytale miniatures, and Reaper certainly has those. Those "caeke" and mousling anthopomorphs have their own following as well. Reaper also has dissatisfaction with the traditional retailer-distributor system (whaddaya mean you won't carry 5000 miniature SKU's?) so may rely upon KS more than your typical game company.
chris_valera wrote: It's not whining it's just that that's a lot of Bathalians they're making, for no ral reason. Three variants of a race? Making big figures and Tyranid stand-ins I understand, but three variants of the same figure?
I fully agree, the amount of times I have seen multiple version of a human cleric and thought to myself "Why the hell did there need to be different versions of this? I mean they already have one, isn't that enough? And if someone did want multiples wouldnt they just be happy with having two that looked identical?"
...oh hang on, no I have never thought that. Just because it isn't something that I really need or want right now doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there that would like a par or trio of unique gribblies to throw into an adventure or have as a BBEG.
And you never know, this might be the start of a range of models for some race Reaper want to push, and it was most economically paced at three at a time or some feth I have no way of knowing?
If Reaper flat-out said they were starting a sci-fi game, I would applaud them. If they're doing it because these are big figures and it makes the most sense to do them now, I have no problem with it. But Bathalians aren't like clerics (although an all-cleric party in D&D is pretty useless) it's the fact that all three are taking up spots that could be held by other things.
I'm not into these new grey alien figures, but at least it's not another giant Bathalian.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: The Bathalien Primarch is a model that I've carried up to the FLGS's cash register multiple times, each time making with the misty Old Yeller eyes, but just have not yet pulled the trigger on the purchase. Now I can afford to get more than one, and with almost no guilt!
Somebody call Sally Struthers. "We can buy gamers Bathalians for just pennies a day!"
So Bathalians have their fans. Fine. I don't begrudge you a thing. But you're buying the same Bathalian to make a squad. I can understand that. I might do it myself. But three Bathalians, of all different types, but basically the same? They couldn't do a medium-sized Bathalian troopers, and a giant-huge sized Bathalian, the size of a dragon or Mashaaf? No giant Bathalian tank that's like the old Reaper 40K2 Carnifex? No psyker Bathalian? No flying Bathalian jump trooper with wings? No royalty Bathalian with giant head crest?
Even the 14059 Darkspawn makes a better, and varied alien horror. They can't release that in Bones?
Sean_OBrien wrote: 3 figures which are not the same. The Primarch, Centurion and Exarch are different. You have two which have hand type things and one which has mantis like arms. The Primarch is larger than the other two as well. They work as a good stand in for all sorts of things, and should be handy for doing a space oddity type army, where they make up the core and than something like the big worm and other Lovecraftian inspired critters flesh it out.
Personally I would have preferred 3 different mind flayers - but having fewer than 3 of anything which isn't huge limits there usefulness for wargamers. 3 or more and you can then start mixing things up to make units of them.
Oh come on, there's no rules for these things? It's not like orcs/kobolds/skeletons/whatever, some with swords and some with spears, that have different game rules. They're just alien beasties with no rules attached.
"Oh, but the head and hands are different!" is the new Malibu Stacy with a new hat. I know we're going to disagree on this, but they're mostly the same. I see nothing "royal" about the leader-guy, no big head crest or scepter.
I'm not against variants, but variants that are so similar is annoying.
And the Exarch and the Centurion? Which one is the basic fighter guy, and what is the other one? A sergeant or squad leader? Could you even tell me?
As an aside, like everyone else, I am not excited about the grey aliens. They ok, and the saucer is great, but not anything I need to add to my buy pile immediately. Especially when I have to order $50 worth of stuff to get them. I can get them on ebay after the kickstarter is over for a decent price, I'm sure.
The bullete looks average and the barbarians look great, but if you could that bulette as four/eight miniatures, that's really only six/ten (seven/eleven if you count Sophie) miniatures added to the core.
And what's in the core is a 50/50 mix of good/bad.
It's worth noting, I just bought a box set of The Hobbit: Escape from Goblin Town on ebay this morning for $64.99, with free shipping. Costs more, but I get figures I know I'll love and some great terrain. Not misshapen 1950's police call boxes and shipping containers that probably won't hold their shape.
I know you guys are in love with getting multiples of Bathalians, but unless they release something huge like Gauth in Bones plastic, and add it to the core set, I'm still on the fence.
czakk wrote: Clever crow minis has some painted photos of narthrax on their face page.
Narhrax does indeed look excellent.
ced1106 wrote: Reaper has a ridiculously huge catalog of miniatures. They mentioned possible KS for specialized lines, such as CAV, which does have a Bonesium prototype picture somewhere on the 'net. Fairlytale Games has shown a demand for fairytale miniatures, and Reaper certainly has those. Those "caeke" and mousling anthopomorphs have their own following as well. Reaper also has dissatisfaction with the traditional retailer-distributor system (whaddaya mean you won't carry 5000 miniature SKU's?) so may rely upon KS more than your typical game company.
I don't begrudge Reaper trying to make a profit, or improving on the mistakes they made last time (being bit by that ROW shipping increase must not have been fun...) but I think the previous kickstarter was better in that it gave you a sampler platter of everything.
But internet D&D grognards bitches about getting moderns and sci-fi figs.
If Reaper was smart, they should have ignored them, and added a CAV figure to this kickstarter. Just one. Everybody loves the Dictator, just give away one. Because if you give away one, then there's no reason not to try the game. I mean, the rulebook is free, right? There's a lofot D&D nerds who play nothing but D&D, but I think they could have turned a lot of gamer nerds onto Cav. Or Warlord. Or whatever.
They should look at this as promotion. They got a push of Penny Arcade last time precisely it was such a good deal, you simply had to get in on it.
I don't blame them for trying to make money this time around, but promotion in mainstream news sources counts, and turning people onto your game counts too.
Well, Kickstarter's not supposed to be about "profit" - it's about bringing new products to market, and it certainly did that - paid for the tooling and production of how many new models in the Bones range? - with enough left over to build them a new warehouse wing and buy an injection moulding machine besides.
I mean, retail is for "profit" proper. This is for infrastructure and bringing new products to market. Besides, If they'd taken out a loan for 3.5 million dollars from a traditional financial institution, they'd be paying interest, not worrying about a small profit margin...
Alright I just cleaned up and reposted my last few responses to the Reaper forum, on page 432. We'll see what they make of my views on Bathalians. Hopefully it will go better than my foray onto Defiance Games' facebook page, lol.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: For those worrying about the burrowing horrors legs not being long enough to reach past it's head
remember not all burrowing animals use their legs to burrow
water voles use their teeth, and the horror has plenty of those
I'm not worried about the length of the legs, I just think that is one of the most poorly sculpted monsters I've seen in a long time, and it isn't just the legs. The underbelly and tail look really bad, the upper scales/plates are mediocre at best. It really looks like an inexperienced sculptor's first attempt at sculpting a monster. A couple of folks have stated 'except for the legs it looks good'. They must have seen a different picture. That figure is just bad.
Ya know, now that I think about it, those Barbarians in core was a stupid "bone"head mistake. Putting aside what my personal thoughts are on the exposed nipple, why are they forcing that on everyone in the standard package? That's a CORE figure. At first I thought the complaints were the same old nonsense, but ya know, they are more then justified.
They were playing with fire, and I think they got burned a little. Make it an add-on, and everyone would be happy. Should have put in their Hobgoblin set in the Core pledge instead.
This is a solid example of pushing your beliefs on someone else from the other direction and really is inexcusable. Again, add-on and it's no problem.
The minotaur has me a little surprised, actually. Has Reaper ever shown any renders like that before for new models? It seems more like Raging Heroes' style than theirs. Not that I'm complaining. The integrated base is kind of interesting too. All in all, I rather like it.
The hezrou looks like it could be pretty cool too, the caryatid columns look pretty nice, and the dracolisk will be nice to have, even if it's not the snazziest model out there. This all definitely seals the deal for me on expansion 2.
Also, I REALLY wish the Deva had been around in bones when I made my Celestine conversion. It would have made things soooo much easier. Might still have to swap them out once I get this in. She could have a set of wings for every occasion!
This makes me feel better about expansion 2 but I still don't think I'll get it. Looks like a much better value for those who are interested though! That minotaur lord/god thing is pretty sick.
Well I officially dropped my $100 pledge last night. reaper and just added a $1 pledge. I'm tempted by the second expansion and a couple of dragons but don't want to make the decision now And this way I don't have to watch it all weekend while i'm out ot town to decide if I wanna stay in or not.
Dammit. That big giant Minotaur makes me want Expansion 2 now. The rest is just a bonus basically (a nice bonus though).
Well played Reaper, well played. I really thought I'd pass on that expansion. Let's see if you can pull a similar stunt with expansion 3.
Plus we've still got those ruins and that kaiju Tarrasque looming in the shadows somewhere....
EDIT- so according to Reaper's Ron, that minotaur should be somewhere between 80mm/ 3 inches at the hump of his back. He might play nice with the bull boys from Journey!
I'm in for Expansion 2. I liked what they did with the translucent purple figures, but the Minotaur Lord sealed the deal. I'd previously dropped my Core pledge to $1, feeling that there was a lack of value in the core set, but the complete Expansion set 2 makes up for that.
Yeah, Expansion 2 is the only thing right now with enough stuff I really, really like to put in early for. So my $1 will probably turn into 50-80 depending on how many add-on dragons I want
chris_valera wrote: . But Bathalians aren't like clerics (although an all-cleric party in D&D is pretty useless)
Whaaaaaat? You've been playing a different version of D&D than myself for the past 25+ years. Save for 4th edition, clerics are absurdly powerful if played right (ie, other than simply a walking band aid). Go team cleric!
The bathalians are good for fantasy too. You could easily work them into any underdark game. Their heads correspond to the design for the goroloth/aboleth as well, so they could be aboleth constructs/bioweapons. They'd work great for Darksun, Gamma World, or anything you want to. It doesnt need an official Monster Manual entry to be used.
I wonder how closely the Minotaur render will resemble the final product though - lots of very fine detail and spikey parts that might not translate so well to bones. I think the undercoated metal pictures give a better idea of what is actually possible.
Bone casts fine details pretty well in my experience. I would expect it to look about as close as any 3d renders I've seen turned into mini (ie- I've not yet seen a method that doesn't have some of the finest detail lost- whether we're casting in hard plastic, soft plastic, resin, metal or 3d print).
Bossk_Hogg wrote: [Whaaaaaat? You've been playing a different version of D&D than myself for the past 25+ years. Save for 4th edition, clerics are absurdly powerful if played right.
Nah, it held true in 4E as well.
Had a team with a dedicated healing/buffing cleric and my Paladin/Cleric hybrid in the group.
The DM had to start bumping up encounters in order to account for the fact we simply would not drop to a standard fight.
Of course, a Warlord would've been nice to speed up some fights as well. It's all about action economy and getting in those extra hits at a hefty bonus or three.
But I digress.
Glad to see this picking up a bit of steam. Perhaps the wailing and gnashing of teeth can come to an end now? 3.8k away from the Barbarians, looking forward to the next unlock teaser. Still only in for some cheap terrain and a couple of promo figures, but it's good to see the backer numbers popping up. Hopefully a lot of RPG groups are going to have some awesome games starting late next year.
Am I the only one who saw that Basalisk and made a little "squee" noise? It's downright adorable.
I don't know if I could bring myself to make the party fight it, maybe it could be their mascot instead?
... now I want to play a game where the party has a pet basilisk.
"No, NO! Don't petrify the deer! Damnit, that's supposed to be dinner... well, for the rest of us. Okay fluffy, enjoy your granite deer, we'll go hunting. Again."
With tiny arms that barely reach its waist. Curious.
You mean the minotaur lord? The arm by its waist is held up with the forearm nearly horizontal. Looks to be about proportional to me. If the other arm swung down I'd eyeball that at about mid-thigh too, which is pretty spot on. Might be a tiny bit short.
I think what would make Expansion 3 go from "meh" to "YES" would be some kind of IMF set. Maybe some kind of vehicle with some new dudes in heavy armor, or with new weapons. Give me some good guys to kill those grays!
Crap, even those fugly grays are starting to grow on me.
RPGs have always had steampunk robots or 'ancient automatons'. If they had a few clockwork robots or steam robots that could be dungeon or scifi, that would be cool.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy crap............that comment section is AWFUL. shut the ef up about your personal gak. I asked a question, it got buried. A few guys asked to chill on the nonsense, and they just ramped it up.
Earth Dragon wrote: Ya know, now that I think about it, those Barbarians in core was a stupid "bone"head mistake. Putting aside what my personal thoughts are on the exposed nipple, why are they forcing that on everyone in the standard package? That's a CORE figure. At first I thought the complaints were the same old nonsense, but ya know, they are more then justified.
They were playing with fire, and I think they got burned a little. Make it an add-on, and everyone would be happy. Should have put in their Hobgoblin set in the Core pledge instead.
This is a solid example of pushing your beliefs on someone else from the other direction and really is inexcusable. Again, add-on and it's no problem.
Wait....what? This is one figure out of 150+, and that nobody is going to force you to keep it, paint it, or game with it. How is this a "bonehead" mistake? Are breasts really that offensive to people? There were at least 3 bare-chested female figures in the core set from the Vampire set when Kickstarter 1 finished. There weren't riots in the street about any of them. I think you're blowing things out of proportion here.
Also, I may not have seen them, but where is this community outcry against some bare skin that caused people to drop their pledges left and right?
You are allowed your opinions, of course, but I think this is a bit disingenuous to blame Reaper for "pushing their beliefs," when all we're talking about here is a bit of plastic.
Earth Dragon wrote: Ya know, now that I think about it, those Barbarians in core was a stupid "bone"head mistake. Putting aside what my personal thoughts are on the exposed nipple, why are they forcing that on everyone in the standard package? That's a CORE figure. At first I thought the complaints were the same old nonsense, but ya know, they are more then justified.
They were playing with fire, and I think they got burned a little. Make it an add-on, and everyone would be happy. Should have put in their Hobgoblin set in the Core pledge instead.
This is a solid example of pushing your beliefs on someone else from the other direction and really is inexcusable. Again, add-on and it's no problem.
Wait....what? This is one figure out of 150+, and that nobody is going to force you to keep it, paint it, or game with it. How is this a "bonehead" mistake? Are breasts really that offensive to people? There were at least 3 bare-chested female figures in the core set from the Vampire set when Kickstarter 1 finished. There weren't riots in the street about any of them. I think you're blowing things out of proportion here.
Also, I may not have seen them, but where is this community outcry against some bare skin that caused people to drop their pledges left and right?
You are allowed your opinions, of course, but I think this is a bit disingenuous to blame Reaper for "pushing their beliefs," when all we're talking about here is a bit of plastic.
~iPaint
It's not me who was opposed to it. This is in response to a few folks saying those were unnessecary and offensive. They were then run out with pitch forks. All they were asking in the comments was it should be moved to add-ons.
You have no problems with it and that's fine. But a few people did in that mess of a comment section. They were ridiculed excessively and you could tell pledges were dropping a little heavier during that period. I just feel they had a valid point of not wanting to be locked into those minis and their views were thrown back in their face. It would have been easy to make a quick adjustment, and in the future should have been considered.
So yeah, Reaper was out a number a pledges (arguably more due to the intolerant masses of opposing views) because that was added to Core. Don't now how much it affectexd the first one, but same thing. How hard would it have been to switch around the bare breasts as add-ons and slip in other things in their place? Why are those folks forced to be subjected to that if they want to participate in the basic package.
I'm sure the vitriol was a result of the Storm Giantess brouhaha from the last KS, which resulted in one of the sculptors refusing to post on the Reaper forums again. Thankfully s/he's at least commenting on the KS comments.
I've corrected the last two Core updates for those concerned about the Such Things.
ced1106 wrote: I'm sure the vitriol was a result of the Storm Giantess brouhaha from the last KS, which resulted in one of the sculptors refusing to post on the Reaper forums again. Thankfully s/he's at least commenting on the KS comments.
I've corrected the last two Core updates for those concerned about the Such Things.
Spoiler:
Thank you for protecting us all from the ravages of nipples.
Actually, any way we could get those Girls Gone Wild stars and speech bubbles and stuff from the late-night commercials? Surely those would be appropriate to these excessive levels of smut.
Geez dude, it's one bare breast. Is it really that big of a deal? I mean, if they were "pushing their beliefs" on you, we would be getting that nude sacrifice with the two cultists. Why weren't you complaining about the six breasts rat mage?
Earth Dragon wrote: It's not me who was opposed to it. This is in response to a few folks saying those were unnessecary and offensive. They were then run out with pitch forks. All they were asking in the comments was it should be moved to add-ons.
You have no problems with it and that's fine. But a few people did in that mess of a comment section. They were ridiculed excessively and you could tell pledges were dropping a little heavier during that period. I just feel they had a valid point of not wanting to be locked into those minis and their views were thrown back in their face. It would have been easy to make a quick adjustment, and in the future should have been considered.
So yeah, Reaper was out a number a pledges (arguably more due to the intolerant masses of opposing views) because that was added to Core. Don't now how much it affectexd the first one, but same thing. How hard would it have been to switch around the bare breasts as add-ons and slip in other things in their place? Why are those folks forced to be subjected to that if they want to participate in the basic package.
Understandable. It's also sort of the style and subject matter Kev White sculpts as well, so that's a factor to consider.
Out of curiosity, was there a similar outcry with the Kelpie models, the dryad, or the Sea Hag? The only difference is the nipple, really, and is that where people will draw the line - a raised bump that's smaller than a grain of table salt? Bare breasts are ok so long as there aren't any nipples? Or is it because she's a human, not a humanoid fantasy creature? I'm trying to find some points that would make one sculpt ok and another offending.
It all just seems bizarre to me, when all you'd have to do in the end is file or cut off the offending bit, apply some thick paint or some green stuff to remove the offending parts...or just throw the model out and be done with it. I've almost done it on a few of the KS1 Bones I have that are just uncooperative or poorly detailed compared to the metal versions, and I'm not up in a fuss about it.
Barzam wrote: Geez dude, it's one bare breast. Is it really that big of a deal? I mean, if they were "pushing their beliefs" on you, we would be getting that nude sacrifice with the two cultists. Why weren't you complaining about the six breasts rat mage?
You are asking me to defend a mindset that isn't mine. I'm saying people posted an opinion, and people weren't tolerant of that view point, and as a result had a higher then normal dip occured right then. I don't have a problem with the model, but is it really that big of a deal someone thinks it should be an add-on? Thinking that is an unreasonable request is more what I am opposed to. I admit I came off as a little strong in that OP on the topic, but that's in response to the complete lack of tolerence shown (not by Reaper mind you. It should have been focused at the masses of asses).
Earth Dragon wrote: It's not me who was opposed to it. This is in response to a few folks saying those were unnessecary and offensive. They were then run out with pitch forks. All they were asking in the comments was it should be moved to add-ons.
You have no problems with it and that's fine. But a few people did in that mess of a comment section. They were ridiculed excessively and you could tell pledges were dropping a little heavier during that period. I just feel they had a valid point of not wanting to be locked into those minis and their views were thrown back in their face. It would have been easy to make a quick adjustment, and in the future should have been considered.
So yeah, Reaper was out a number a pledges (arguably more due to the intolerant masses of opposing views) because that was added to Core. Don't now how much it affectexd the first one, but same thing. How hard would it have been to switch around the bare breasts as add-ons and slip in other things in their place? Why are those folks forced to be subjected to that if they want to participate in the basic package.
Understandable. It's also sort of the style and subject matter Kev White sculpts as well, so that's a factor to consider.
Out of curiosity, was there a similar outcry with the Kelpie models, the dryad, or the Sea Hag? The only difference is the nipple, really, and is that where people will draw the line - a raised bump that's smaller than a grain of table salt? Bare breasts are ok so long as there aren't any nipples? Or is it because she's a human, not a humanoid fantasy creature? I'm trying to find some points that would make one sculpt ok and another offending.
It all just seems bizarre to me, when all you'd have to do in the end is file or cut off the offending bit, apply some thick paint or some green stuff to remove the offending parts...or just throw the model out and be done with it. I've almost done it on a few of the KS1 Bones I have that are just uncooperative or poorly detailed compared to the metal versions, and I'm not up in a fuss about it.
~iPaint
The way the necklace is, it wouldn't be hard to paint a tight top on her after filing the nipple down IMHO.
I think the breaker point seems to occur with actual human beings. You got me on the details.
Dammit. Now I'm in for #3. New IMEF Marines! That should make Chris Valera happy. It certainly makes me happy.
I'm still not keen on that saucer, but the Greys are growing on me a bit. I think I'd rather have had their not-Terminator robots instead of the UFO. Or that 3-pack of robots they've got.
) and if I can get it to be a 10th as good as yours I will be happy 
am I going to do with three of them?
