Commander Cain wrote: Am I the only one who can't wait for the Warpath Kickstarter already even though I already have over 300 minis coming my way?!
Commander Cain wrote: Is it wrong that I am already waiting for the Warpath kickstarter even though I have over 300 minis already coming to me through this and a couple of other ks?
Probably not, but you don't get to count yourself when figuring the true total!
Commander Cain wrote: Am I the only one who can't wait for the Warpath Kickstarter already even though I already have over 300 minis coming my way?!
Commander Cain wrote: Is it wrong that I am already waiting for the Warpath kickstarter even though I have over 300 minis already coming to me through this and a couple of other ks?
Probably not, but you don't get to count yourself when figuring the true total!
This is what you get for posting in a lightning storm! Thought my computer lost the post when I couldn't find it again...
scarletsquig wrote: Ronnie has said "other side of Christmas" for the Warpath Kickstarter, so make sure you've got some cash ready early next year!
hmm... I'd much rather see them come good with the Kings of War stuff before holding out their hands for money a third time. Not that I think they'll take the money and run, but I feel that it'd simply be more ...respectful to their backers to finish the KoW one before starting the Warpath one.
scarletsquig wrote: Ronnie has said "other side of Christmas" for the Warpath Kickstarter, so make sure you've got some cash ready early next year!
hmm... I'd much rather see them come good with the Kings of War stuff before holding out their hands for money a third time. Not that I think they'll take the money and run, but I feel that it'd simply be more ...respectful to their backers to finish the KoW one before starting the Warpath one.
One thing Ronnie said in the seminar I attended was that the KS money for KoW has gone in its own account, separate from the usual Mantic funds. I think the intention is that it is only being used to fund things from the KS, and anything else Mantic is doing is via their usual cashflow. I imagine Dreadball will have the same arrangement.
I do agree that waiting until the KoW stuff, and maybe even the Season 2 Dreadball stuff comes out would be preferable.
While I understand that, I also don't care. I honestly find it completely lacks class if they intend to keep putting their hands out before delivering their previous commitments to completion. Dreadball was already pushing it, though I was willing to give them a pass since it was a self-contained product due this year before Christmas. (before it became all about Season 2, 3, 4 and stretch goals due in 2013).
To put it less conservatively - Hey you tossers! Finish delivering on your first promises before asking for a third trip to the till!
Good to see this was a success, the world needs more awesome miniature sports games, though i will admit, id like to see another sport like baseball or hockey
Rainbow Dash wrote: Good to see this was a success, the world needs more awesome miniature sports games, though i will admit, id like to see another sport like baseball or hockey
This I agree with this. I want a sci-fi hockey game, dammit!
Rainbow Dash wrote: Good to see this was a success, the world needs more awesome miniature sports games, though i will admit, id like to see another sport like baseball or hockey
This I agree with this.
I want a sci-fi hockey game, dammit!
i had made some rough rules for pony-hockey, but i would imagine youd have to be afan to like it (mind you it is small multi coloured horses beating the crap out of eachother...noone can really hate that)
Mantic wrote:Essen Spiel runs from the 18-21st October and is one of our favourite shows. It’s absolutely massive and we’ll be sharing a stand with the great guys from Warlord Games, bringing with us our range of high quality, affordable gaming miniatures – including the brand new Warpath Enforcers - as well as demos of Warpath 2.0 and the incredible new DreadBall!
Look out for us in Hall 6 Booth 6-806.
Essen Spiel is the GenCon of Germany, with 150.000 visitors on average. Mostly Boardgame centered, but Hall 6 is tabletop/Larp/RPG territory. I will be there, also visiting the Mantic booth, but I guess incognito
While I understand that, I also don't care. I honestly find it completely lacks class if they intend to keep putting their hands out before delivering their previous commitments to completion. Dreadball was already pushing it, though I was willing to give them a pass since it was a self-contained product due this year before Christmas. (before it became all about Season 2, 3, 4 and stretch goals due in 2013).
To put it less conservatively - Hey you tossers! Finish delivering on your first promises before asking for a third trip to the till!
thank god you were there to pass it or it might never had made it pass their initial goal! Thanks Scipio
They look great! Just needed some better pictures.
88 looks great for certain! Wildcard, ehhhhhhh... the technicals of the sculpt are good, but that pose, yikes! Also, seriously, who decided that she plays in go-go boot heels?
Both are WIP so they can be improved, Wildcards pose is good, its just one of those poses you have to see it from a specific angle, hers from front and only one distant pic exists.
The multi story building sole shoes, is a bad choice though, I do hope they do not stay.
No88 is generally good, looks more male than androgynous to me, the glove needs some serious thinning.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Wildcard is absolutely terrible. The pose is pretty bad, but the shortened torso and unaligned spine are the real horrors.
"For the record, Mr. Stark, the pilot survived."
Think of her in the process of throwing a discus, I think thats the intent, and it works well (my opinion though)
I think it's clear that is what they are going for, I just don't think it really works, mainly because there seems to be this discontinuity between the upper and lower body.
When you throw a discus, it involves the whole body. Here, her body from the navel up is twisted and tense, ready to throw a discuss. Her legs, on the other hand, look almost like they came off another miniature, one in a generic running pose.
Of course, that may just be those boots, which, it cannot be overstated, are absolutely terrible. They look like they were bought by a Goth schoolgirl from the Hot Topic at the mall.
thank god you were there to pass it or it might never had made it pass their initial goal! Thanks Scipio
Heh, I'm sure they'd make their money if they start another KS tomorrow. Doesn't mean it's a classy thing to do though
Seriously though, the more times any of these companies go to the well for money before finishing making good on their previous commitments, the more it'll erode the goodwill that people have for them. Does that point of view make sense?
GrimmKey wrote: Personally, I was drawn in by her stoic stance artwork, but this is heading in a decent direction...the boot can be filed down, if need be.
Actually, it kinda can't (well, not without a lot of work): like other Mantic products, the disk at the base is integrated, so to grind down her heels, you would have to cut her free, then re-attach her.
Could it be done? Sure. But considering what it should be, why not get it right in the first place?
They look great! Just needed some better pictures.
88 looks great for certain! Wildcard, ehhhhhhh... the technicals of the sculpt are good, but that pose, yikes! Also, seriously, who decided that she plays in go-go boot heels?
Dance party!
And yeah, the stripper shoes are a bit of a moment. I'd have hoped some more of the producers would have moved past that level of derp.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Wildcard is absolutely terrible. The pose is pretty bad, but the shortened torso and unaligned spine are the real horrors.
"For the record, Mr. Stark, the pilot survived."
Think of her in the process of throwing a discus, I think thats the intent, and it works well (my opinion though)
Then wouldn't her left arm be up more instead of in a comedy "pushing away the midget" pose? Also, there are all kinds of things wrong with the torso that prevent it from looking like she's doing anything more coherent than twitching feebly. And I hadn't even noticed the F-me Frankenstein boots until now.
88 needs his left knee pushed slightly more upright, I think. II agree the glove looks too bulky. Apart from that I really like him. Crisp, dynamic.
Wildcard. The face is good.
The pose just doesn't look right. I know sometimes real-life body positions don't look realistic or even possible but occasionally they don't work well as a static model. And, unfortunately, I just don't find the model works. Yes, she could be fending somebody off while throwing but her legs are running...skipping...not sure...It just feels as if the sculptor is trying to pull off too many things at once. Her original pose oozed strength and character.
Maybe she does look good from one angle but that isn't acceptable - a figure should look good from many angles. Sure, there might be one or two that aren't so great but that's acceptable.
Aside from the face I dont' think the sculpting quality is up to that of the Ogres in the other thread or No 88. I'm guessing because it isn't finished (i.e. still WiP )
No it should not, what you say is all models should be static to look good from all angles in pics, why? dynamic poses don't work that way.
Anyway because it has been ignored, this is wildcards pose from the front and it shows why the body looks twisted, because it IS twisting probably pushing aside somebody in order to strike the ball, I really do not know why everybody took her side since this is the oddest angle for this model to take.
Spoiler because the pic is huge....
Spoiler:
I assume because her artwork has boots and the other boot is been trimmed down and because this is a WIP, her multi platform will be shortened to a more reasonable length.
I said *occasionally* they don't work well on a static model. Further, I said that a model should look good from *many* angles not all of them.
I don't have an issue with her fending somebody away...just that the very low angle looks odd on that model. If we could see the attacking 'model' making, say, a diving tackle it would look slightly less out of place. That would also tie in with the way she is leaning back.
I've seen that happen often in rugby but in those cases the defender usually has the ball tucked in tight or cocked straight back.
thank god you were there to pass it or it might never had made it pass their initial goal! Thanks Scipio
Heh, I'm sure they'd make their money if they start another KS tomorrow. Doesn't mean it's a classy thing to do though
Seriously though, the more times any of these companies go to the well for money before finishing making good on their previous commitments, the more it'll erode the goodwill that people have for them. Does that point of view make sense?
I can see where you're coming from,
but to me as long as they are at least begining to fulfill their orders AND the figures they are produccing are up to the standards the backers expected I'm OK with it (Icertainly need to see the greens as they are finalised too)
(now if a company involved had rumours of cash flow problems or anything that meant I thought money was at risk thing would be different)
I guess a separated but related issue is would I back a second KS by a company before I'd got the goods from the first...... If I'd got some of their mini's before and liked them, probably yes, If the KS was a from a 'new to me' company probably not (I'd want to see & paint some of their stuff first)
Personally from this angle, I do not think she looks like a dud, the body is properly twisted she is running pushing somebody aside or balancing wile aiming to release the dreadball.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Psychotic Storm, why didn't you pose the angle that looks good instead of another "dud"?
Heh, it seems she's like a magic eye painting: if you squint just right she looks good...
Her lower body is just misaligned for her upper body, and her upper body, while it makes a certain kind of sense, doesn't seem to make sense given the description of the game. She looks like she's throwing side-arm (like a discus), but... why? Are there any other minis in that position? That doesn't seem to jibe with the poses of the other figures.
It's a very strange miss, considering how nice the other minis are (including 88).
EDIT: By the by, anyone know if there is any feedback thread on the official Mantic forums? Maybe I'm just a newb at their structure, but I can't seem to find anywhere that people are discussing the kickstarter stuff that references the WIP photos.
EDIT: By the by, anyone know if there is any feedback thread on the official Mantic forums? Maybe I'm just a newb at their structure, but I can't seem to find anywhere that people are discussing the kickstarter stuff that references the WIP photos.
All the Dreadball stuff is in general discussion at the moment, and there's probably some discussion about the pictures in the Open Day thread.
Wildcard looks great from the front angle as far as I can tell, and the face is very well-sculpted which is the important thing for me, as often sculptors don't get female faces right.
EDIT: By the by, anyone know if there is any feedback thread on the official Mantic forums? Maybe I'm just a newb at their structure, but I can't seem to find anywhere that people are discussing the kickstarter stuff that references the WIP photos.
All the Dreadball stuff is in general discussion at the moment, and there's probably some discussion about the pictures in the Open Day thread.
Wildcard looks great from the front angle as far as I can tell, and the face is very well-sculpted which is the important thing for me, as often sculptors don't get female faces right.
^ Yes and no! I mean the angle from the front. The one where she has all that frontiness going on.
There aren't any complaints about the WIP sculpts on the Mantic forums, but then the place is far more focused when it comes to complaints.
E.g. You won't catch me giving a toss about whether or not Wildcard's boots should be 1mm shorter, but you will see me writing essay-long feedback posts about other stuff.
If any other "big" company tried to sell a model for $10 that only looked "good" from one very specific angle, you would all go full Warseer on them, so don't pretend it's okay when Mantic does it.
Look, the head and face are great, but just about everything else is wrong.
The left arm is angled too low, and the raised shoulder isn't lined up properly for a stiff arm, while the bent back wrist only makes sense if it is going to impact something. Unless, of course, Wildcard is doing the Christie Brinkley dance from Uptown Girl. Even so, a good sculptor will know something about dynamic posing, or at least have read How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way, and will realize that the downward angle is really unappealing. It's about as dynamic as a triangle lying on it's widest leg.
The torso is just too short. Her rib cage is touching her pelvis.
Her trunk muscles are not flexing/extant/human. She looks like an 80's GI Joe, connected by a rubber band. And it looks like her waist is off-center.
She must have learned how to run from the Khorne Berserker School of Imitating Phoebe Bouffet. Seriously, sculptor, do what He Man did and trace a photo of someone running.
The boots are hungry for love and it's feeding time.
Etc.
EDIT: The model would be 100% better if you put her head on 88's body. Still a bit akward, though.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If any other "big" company tried to sell a model for $10 that only looked "good" from one very specific angle, you would all go full Warseer on them, so don't pretend it's okay when Mantic does it.
Agree Agree Agree.
My fear is Mantic now has to produce more models in a short period of time than they have competent sculptors, so a portion of the sculpts will be unacceptable done by unqualified sculptors. Who is the sculptor of Wildcard and can we see their other work to see if there is any hope?
Let's see some other models to make us feel better.
I have to agree, Wildcard's body just looks...awkward. The face and hair are excellent, which is the tricky bit, but that just makes the body all that more confusing; you do well on the hard part and then honk the basics? It's like they went for a pose that would work well with another model for reference (stiff-arming a Jack while lining up a strike seems to be the goal of the pose), but on a single model just comes across badly. If they squared up the torso with the legs, or changed the legs to convey more of a leap than a run, it could work a bit better.
Now, WIP is exactly that and I wouldn't rule out the bosses grabbing what they had to show it even if the sculptor wasn't done. The wide-angle shot shows just those two greens, which could indicate they just grabbed what was recognizable and perhaps not what the sculptors were happy with.
While every model range has models that only appeal to a certain segment, Wildcard was one of my "looking forward to" models. Not going to massively diminish my enjoyment of the purchase (over 200 models by the time all is said and done ) but still disappointing.
I'm really looking forward to getting this in the next few months. I finally sat down and read the core rules and its pretty easy to pick up, though they need to grammercheck the hell out of it for the final book. I'm interested in seeing how the various teams play and how league-play works. Pre-genned MVP's are cool, but I love seeing my own players rise through the ranks and into their own stardom.
I saw the wildcard at the open day, it looked ok. I think this may be one to look at in person before making a final judgement, photographs can often be a little misleading.
I wanted to share some correspondence I had with Mantic over the WIPs;
Hi Buzzsaw
Thanks for getting in touch, and thanks for your kind comments about our Kickstarter!
It's a shame that you're not happy with the Wildcard sculpt. With regard to the pose, it does look a lot more natural when you hold it in your hand, it's just a bad angle for the photograph unfortunately. As for the high heels, we are aware of people's opinions on this and we've deliberately not gone this way for the female team and other MVPs. However, Wildcard's design incorporates a pop culture reference that pays homage to a character with similar imagery to DreadBall, and we wanted to stay true to that.
Thanks for the feedback, and we'll definitely take it into account with the continuing development of the game :-).
Thanks
Stewart
So, for those hoping that the sculpt is not finished, I fear your hopes have been in vain.
In that vein (pun!), allow me to restate the following without comment;
Of the 20 MVP miniatures representing named individuals, there are 3 (three) identifiable females. Said females may be further characterized as,
-Wildcard, in skinsuit and gogoboots,
-Helder, comically zaftig, and
-Mellisandra, an appropriately built and attired member of a non-human race.
I think, the Wildcard sculpt looks odd because of the angle of the photo: Her upper body is a bit twisted and bent backward, making it look too short in this specific angle while in reality it isn't, as people who have actually seen the sculpt seem to confirm.
Kroothawk wrote:I think, the Wildcard sculpt looks odd because of the angle of the photo: Her upper body is a bit twisted and bent backward, making it look too short in this specific angle while in reality it isn't, as people who have actually seen the sculpt seem to confirm.
I'm always nervous about being reassured by claims that "it's great, when you have it in-hand" when the people reporting this are a) paid employees, and b) fans sufficiently motivated to go to an exposition for the company.
I'm not saying people are lying, but the unconscious bias is not exactly difficult to imagine. Consider also that similar statements were made about the Kings of War elves, which remain very, very polarizing.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:She is supposed to be an homage to the character from Tron 2 that didn't pay off, right? Or am I missing something?
I know a few guys in real life who will probably be happy to take her off my hands, so no biggie.
My assumption is that she is a (vague) reference to Quorra from Tron Legacy. That said, the character in Tron is a bit less stripperiffic (well, at least in the footwear department).
In any case, it seems rather poorly thought out to be wedded so tightly to a movie homage, especially when you have so very few female "characters".
RiTides wrote: Swap in one of those Bombshell babe characters, Buzzsaw
I think I'm going with Libby.
Or maybe Roller Girl from Reaper.
They both look athletic without being waif-like or comically fat. (I almost said "without being madonnas or whores." Why would a cruel double standard about women pop into my head in a Dreadball thread?)
I must be a real fat nerd.
EDIT: I have an idea! to deal with the skin suit
I just need to cut up one of my extra players and place the armor all around her. Then place her opposite the not-Prof X character, and the rest is obvious.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M] "So, I see Wildcard charging me, and she's going for a super Slam, and I think, 'Oh really?' And her armour falls off. Instantly. And she's scrambling around to put it back on, but it's too late. I've seen everything.
"I've seen it all."[/url]
Such is the danger of pre-order Kickstarter schemes such as this one. It's gone from a figure I'd buy to one I would not spend money on, but I'll get over the bad pose and stripper boots of this otherwise-nicely-sculpted posed figure by virtue of it being almost free in the scheme of things.
It's very similar to the Sedition Wars figure in a lot of ways - but that's the risk - we're buying something sight-unseen based on concept art.
The Bombshell Babes situation was a bit better, since Patrick decapitated the oversized head that Betty had, but he did that while the campaign was still running and any of us could have pulled our dollars. Hopefully he'll continue to stand out by being responsive to constructive criticism from the people who have pledged the large amounts of money that is financing this stuff - because a lot of other figure producers are not!
RiTides wrote: Swap in one of those Bombshell babe characters, Buzzsaw
I think I'm going with Libby.
Or maybe Roller Girl from Reaper.
They both look athletic without being waif-like or comically fat. (I almost said "without being madonnas or whores." Why would a cruel double standard about women pop into my head in a Dreadball thread?)
I must be a real fat nerd.
EDIT: I have an idea! to deal with the skin suit
I just need to cut up one of my extra players and place the armor all around her. Then place her opposite the not-Prof X character, and the rest is obvious.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M] "So, I see Wildcard charging me, and she's going for a super Slam, and I think, 'Oh really?' And her armour falls off. Instantly. And she's scrambling around to put it back on, but it's too late. I've seen everything.
"I've seen it all."[/url]
Hahahaha!
The sad thing is, just can't seem to avoid shooting themselves in the foot. A lot of their new stuff (not coincidentally, done by Remy Tremblay) is really very good. Then they put the only female human that isn't a comically overweight woman in stripper heels. Waaaaa?
It just seems such an unnecessary reminder that their previous lines have been marked by heavy variability in quality.
Agreed, they are almost as certain as the Pumbagore (or before that the ogre cheerleader) being posted if there is any discussion regarding GW models !
scarletsquig wrote: ^ I saw orange text in that post and thought "that's a link to the bloody elf drakon riders again isn't it?".
Then I clicked, and wasn't disappointed. :p
Those Drakon riders are the replacement for Hitler as far as Godwin's law applied to Mantic threads goes.
Their value is in their undisputed quality. Everyone agrees they are rubbish.
With other things, opinions vary. Are the Elven core units terrible, spindly crap? Some say yes, some say no. Are the Veer-myn derivative and crudely done? Some say yes, some say no.
The Drakon Riders have the virtue of being so utterly terrible that they are essentially indefensible. A peculiar bit of a virtue.
As an aside, I'm not sure it's much of a defense to say something of "you're only pointing out that they produced one of the worst sculpts in the last few years because you want to point out they can make eye-gouging bad sculpts! How dare you!"
They didn't have a particularly large stable of human female MVPs, which are now apparently destined to be Beach-ball and Bimbo. This isn't a case of "yeah, the green didn't come out the way we wanted", it's a that they really did want stripper heels and dancing queen pose. That does not build confidence.
Heh, for once I wasn't intending to go on the defensive with that post, I was calling the drakon riders horrible long before it was cool.
Was just making a fun observation about how what started as "the elves are bad" default comment has gradually been refined into concentrated drakon syrup as the years have passed.
scarletsquig wrote: Heh, for once I wasn't intending to go on the defensive with that post, I was calling the drakon riders horrible long before it was cool.
Was just making a fun observation about how what started as "the elves are bad" default comment has gradually been refined into concentrated drakon syrup as the years have passed.
Heh, fair enough, apologies for the ubersnark (it's like regular snark, but blond /rimshot).
As Pacific says, like the Pumbagore, it's just one of those things that you look at it and you start trying to process "how... how did that make it to retail?"
Also, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have put money into this if I didn't recognize that when the guys at Mantic are on, they really cook it.
scarletsquig wrote: Heh, for once I wasn't intending to go on the defensive with that post, I was calling the drakon riders horrible long before it was cool.
Was just making a fun observation about how what started as "the elves are bad" default comment has gradually been refined into concentrated drakon syrup as the years have passed.
Heh, fair enough, apologies for the ubersnark (it's like regular snark, but blond /rimshot).
As Pacific says, like the Pumbagore, it's just one of those things that you look at it and you start trying to process "how... how did that make it to retail?"
Also, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have put money into this if I didn't recognize that when the guys at Mantic are on, they really cook it.
When they good, they are good, when they are bad, they are bad. It is hard looking at the Enforcers with thier unrealistically thin body proportions when the Mantic human models look so amazing. I think Mantic really has made a better product with thier slightly hero-scale sculpts.
Same goes for Marauders. The current marauders look like a totally different species from the Dreadball model, and the Marauder hero had amazing concept art with a smirky 'I gonna kill you with my claw' face and when it became a model, it was a terrible pose with a horrible face which destroyed the model.
Every time I was told to 'see the model in person' I ended up seeing them in person and was equally disappointed.
I bought EVERY MODEL being produced from the dreadball line. I hope I am rewarded with at least an 80% acceptable model rate.
I feel like Mantic's issue is they Kickstart to raise funds, and then they have to produce a ton of sculpts in a short period of time. You can throw money at production runs, mold making, manufacturing issues, those are good problems to have... Not having enough high-level sculptors to service your kickstarter before you start another one is a bad problem to have. If a single dreadball sculpt suffers due to having an unqualified sculptor put on it because the good sculptors get re-purposed to a Warpath kickstarter, I will be devastated. I hope they keep the model-making bandwidth to that of how much thier team of quality sculptors can support without quality suffering. That is all.
In all honesty, I tend to like Mantic's stuff when I see it in person. I like their elves. I love their dwarves (all two of them). I even bought the orcs once Scarlet Squig sold me on their background, and I loved them, too. (Well, except for the helmetless heads and Mr Top Hat. Too Disney.) But, if Wildcard is another case of Facebook Nessie (her pictures make her look like a monster), then Mantic seriously needs to hire a photographer or PR dept..
I'm still looking forward to Large Marge (or whatever the joke in her name is), simply because she is a woman who doesn't look like a Werner Klocke model* every other female miniature ever sculpted. Maybe they'll let Sandra Garrity sculpt her so we can have a model with some dignity. I was pretty excited at the concept until it started to seem like a piss take aimed at certain Mantic fans.
Wildcard is disappointing, but doesn't upset me too much since I never planned to use her anyway. But if they screw up John Doe or Rico and zend them to casting before getting any feedback, I will get Ishmael on their white humps.
"He piled upon the sculpt's broken form the sum of all the general ragequit felt by his whole stereotype from Comic Book Guy down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s Blast (6) shell upon it."
* Werner Klocke is the Jim Lee of miniatures: every woman he sculpts has the same face and body type. I can only imagine why...
Werner Klocke: "Honey, what do you think of my latest beauty? She's different from every sculpt I've ever made."
Mrs. Klocke: "She doesn't look like me! Is this what you've been doing working late all those nights! Who is your model for this sculpt? Is it that go go boot-wearing whore from Nottingham? You son of a bastid!"
scarletsquig wrote: ^ I saw orange text in that post and thought "that's a link to the bloody elf drakon riders again isn't it?". Then I clicked, and wasn't disappointed. :p Those Drakon riders are the replacement for Hitler as far as Godwin's law applied to Mantic threads goes.
Wow. Those are Nagash-level awful. While I haven't seen them before, they clearly should have been in the KoW Kickstarter as prospects for resculpts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll give Werner this much at the very least - he may be in a face/body rut, but at least it's a well-sculpted face/body rut.
Wow. Those are Nagash-level awful. While I haven't seen them before, they clearly should have been in the KoW Kickstarter as prospects for resculpts.
have you held a Nagash and painted one personally? I have. The 90's were a terrible time of Gary Morley and the Morrisons infecting everything, and every new release saw you hoping it was a Perry or Copplestone. It was painful to paint that thing. Seriously. Ugh.
The Dragon Riders may not be a full step ahead of Nagash-quality, but certainly a stumble ahead. A coughing, disease-ridden leprous stumble and fall to the floor, doubled over in agony, but still every so slightly better than Nagash.
I was there, Dougie. I played through the entirety of the nineties. I never painted a Nagash, Even though back then I'd buy some of the nice models from many of the releases just to paint even if I didn't play that army (Heinrich Kemmler, the Lichesmaster anyone?) I refused to buy one becaue I've never been willing to buy a model that was garbage just because it might be ok in a game, but I've certainly held it, while making derisive comments at the time. I started in the 80s with Minifigs, and my first Warhammers were WHFB3 and Rogue Trader.
Is it bad that I don't consider the drachon riders to be as bad as Nagash, the pumbagor or the baby carriage knight? Not great sculpts, but GW has quite a few worse. Mantic may not have any figures to match GW's best work yet, but their worst sculpts are still better than GW's worst. I'd put the enforcers forth as their best, but I like a couple GW models better. Mostly in the daemon line-I love the old KoS (my first greater daemon, even if others hate it), love the Juan Diaz 'nettes, and really like screamers and flamers too.
timetowaste85 wrote: Is it bad that I don't consider the drachon riders to be as bad as Nagash, the pumbagor or the baby carriage knight? Not great sculpts, but GW has quite a few worse. Mantic may not have any figures to match GW's best work yet, but their worst sculpts are still better than GW's worst. I'd put the enforcers forth as their best, but I like a couple GW models better. Mostly in the daemon line-I love the old KoS (my first greater daemon, even if others hate it), love the Juan Diaz 'nettes, and really like screamers and flamers too.
Let's be realistic for a moment though - Citadel has been around since 1979, and through a ton of iterations. Mantic has been around for.. I'm honestly not sure. 3 years? Nagash was around at least since 1994 (found him in an old '94 catalogue) - that's almost 30 years ago. That's a lot of time and a lot of models, so it's pretty easy for them to have a lot more "worst" sculpts when compared to such a recent company.
timetowaste85 wrote: Is it bad that I don't consider the drachon riders to be as bad as Nagash, the pumbagor or the baby carriage knight? Not great sculpts, but GW has quite a few worse. Mantic may not have any figures to match GW's best work yet, but their worst sculpts are still better than GW's worst. I'd put the enforcers forth as their best, but I like a couple GW models better. Mostly in the daemon line-I love the old KoS (my first greater daemon, even if others hate it), love the Juan Diaz 'nettes, and really like screamers and flamers too.
Let's be realistic for a moment though - Citadel has been around since 1979, and through a ton of iterations. Mantic has been around for.. I'm honestly not sure. 3 years? Nagash was around at least since 1994 (found him in an old '94 catalogue) - that's almost 30 years ago. That's a lot of time and a lot of models, so it's pretty easy for them to have a lot more "worst" sculpts when compared to such a recent company.
Psst - scipio - 1994 to 2012 is 18 years, chief, so calling it "almost 30" is over-egging the pudding somewhat...
scarletsquig wrote: ^ I saw orange text in that post and thought "that's a link to the bloody elf drakon riders again isn't it?".
Then I clicked, and wasn't disappointed. :p
Those Drakon riders are the replacement for Hitler as far as Godwin's law applied to Mantic threads goes.
Wow. Those are Nagash-level awful. While I haven't seen them before, they clearly should have been in the KoW Kickstarter as prospects for resculpts.
Both Nagash and the Mantic Drakon Riders were sculpted by Gary Morley.
If you look at the Mantic elf battle dragon by Kev White, it is a really high-quality sculpt. Similar concepts for both models, large difference in the end result due to different sculptors being used.
I'd like Mantic to hire Kev White more, especially for the Elves, his sculpts for that range (Palace Guard, that dragon and the characters, especially this guy) all look brilliant.. nice cleanly done sculpts in powerful poses.
It can come across as quite unfair at times to focus on sculptors rather than companies, but it really does matter a lot when it comes down to it. There is a very good reason why GW pays the Perrys £90k/year and has already offered full-time employment with a large paycheck to every one of the popular sculptors that Mantic uses that wasn't already ex-GW to start with. Top-tier sculptors are gold dust, and "average" sculptors are ten-a-penny.
I also think that some sculptors see commission work as "get the job done, get the money in the bank", whereas others eat, sleep and breathe sculpting and are really passionate about creating the best works of art that they possibly can.
I can't say much for the elf rider, since I can't see it very well (I really wish they'd increase the image size on their website) but I'll definitely the Kev White dragon is a nice model.
You've got their ear, SS. Suggest to them they they take a few pages out of the GW website's book with regard to image sizes, component shots and multiple angles of their models. It might cost a bit more in terms of photography time and web design time, but I can;t count how many GW figures I've bought - not for an army, but because I've been able to check out how good they look in detail on the GW site.
^ You mean, like I've already been doing multiple times over the course of the last 3 years and we've actually seen a nice improvement on that front since then?
Waaay ahead of you, to the point where I'm pretty much a broken record on that topic. It's not something that I've mentioned in a long time, because their presentation and photography is a lot better than it used to be. Nothing wrong with the pics and presentation of the dreadball kickstarter, for instance. Also, it's not obvious from looking online, but their retail boxes now look a million times better than they did 3 years ago, and they make most of their sales via retail, not their own website.
They could still do with putting up more detailed component lists, unboxing and sprue pics on their website though, that's the thing that is more important to me than the pictures or the paintjobs... e.g. Enforcer Assault Team - 5 sets of melee arms in the set or just 4? No way to find out without buying! Want to see goblin sprue? Google for blurry cellphone pics. It's all a symptom of them being extremely overworked, though... some things are more of a priority than others and they absolutely zero in on making miniatures to the exclusion of almost everything else... rules design is the only major non-miniature thing that really gets heavily invested in, other stuff like fancy websites and more artwork is way down the list of priorities. Image size on their current site can't be increased without having the site completely remade, they paid for a custom coded solution for their webstore from an expensive developer who charges a lot to make any updates. I'd expect the website itself to remain the same until they can get the funds to do a complete overhaul, it's too much of a mess at the moment to do anything really cool with.
They've already re-done the forums this year because their old ones were horrible, so there is some good progress on that front. And then there's the dreadball website which was placed off and away from the main mantic site so they could do some of that fancy stuff with it.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ You mean, like I've already been doing multiple times over the course of the last 3 years and we've actually seen a nice improvement on that front since then?
Waaay ahead of you, to the point where I'm pretty much a broken record on that topic. It's not something that I've mentioned in a long time, because their presentation and photography is a lot better than it used to be. Nothing wrong with the pics and presentation of the dreadball kickstarter, for instance. Also, it's not obvious from looking online, but their retail boxes now look a million times better than they did 3 years ago, and they make most of their sales via retail, not their own website.
They could still do with putting up more detailed component lists, unboxing and sprue pics on their website though, that's the thing that is more important to me than the pictures or the paintjobs... e.g. Enforcer Assault Team - 5 sets of melee arms in the set or just 4? No way to find out without buying! Want to see goblin sprue? Google for blurry cellphone pics. It's all a symptom of them being extremely overworked, though... some things are more of a priority than others and they absolutely zero in on making miniatures to the exclusion of almost everything else... rules design is the only major non-miniature thing that really gets heavily invested in, other stuff like fancy websites and more artwork is way down the list of priorities. Image size on their current site can't be increased without having the site completely remade, they paid for a custom coded solution for their webstore from an expensive developer who charges a lot to make any updates. I'd expect the website itself to remain the same until they can get the funds to do a complete overhaul, it's too much of a mess at the moment to do anything really cool with.
They've already re-done the forums this year because their old ones were horrible, so there is some good progress on that front. And then there's the dreadball website which was placed off and away from the main mantic site so they could do some of that fancy stuff with it.
It's good that you're on them then. I actually phoned them up shortly after discovering that they existed over a year ago to make that suggestion, and I haven't noticed a change at all on their webpage in that time. There are ways of getting around image size limitations, it's called more photos and using the zoom function
- And they already have pages that host more than one picture. So there's no excuse for not having multiple pics of everything on their website. Overworked? Not enough time? I don't want to seem like an arsehole, but those are piss-poor excuses. Hire a casual for 3 weeks or a month to do it, or get in one of the Superfans/Mantic Fanatics who can prove their worth as a photographer in for a couple of weeks/weekends and pay them in product/warm handshakes from Ronnie. That'll sort out the goblin sprue issues, or the number of arms, or whatever-have-you. I'm sure that GW make most of their sales via retail as well. It's not about where you buy the figures or if you vuy them on the webstore, but being able to see them and then go to the FLGS/online retailer and know you want them, and know what you're getting.
I can only speak for myself, but they have quite a few might-be-interesting figures I haven't bought, simply because I can't properly see what I would be buying. Do they sell enough product just by being a cheaper alternative to GW for WFB figures that they don't need to sell based on their own quality as sculpts? I dunno. Maybe they do.
He is fun when he shows up out of my chest of monsters in random games.
It really isn't a terrible model, just really over the top.
I agree, the model does have a certain charm to it, and perhaps even more so now that it has that rather amusing moniker. Certainly, it always seems to bring a smile to people's lips when they see it on the tabletop, which I guess can only be a good thing !
Nagash on the other hand always used to get snorts of derision, but I don't know how much of that was down to how downright nasty he was on the tabletop - and people tend to dislike miniatures that kill all of their stuff! Interestingly, I once heard that the miniature was initially designed with a hooded cowl for a head, but someone in GW disliked it and said something like 'make it more recognisably a skeleton'. The end result was the 'comedy lord of the undead', but it's interesting to think what might have been.
Regarding the topic though, I do think for the most part Mantic's model design, and their presentation of those models (really the most important part in terms of selling stuff!), has improved. It still has some way to go, but it's much better now than it was even a year or two ago.
Nagash on the other hand always used to get snorts of derision, but I don't know how much of that was down to how downright nasty he was on the tabletop - and people tend to dislike miniatures that kill all of their stuff! Interestingly, I once heard that the miniature was initially designed with a hooded cowl for a head, but someone in GW disliked it and said something like 'make it more recognisably a skeleton'. The end result was the 'comedy lord of the undead', but it's interesting to think what might have been.
Here's the story. Thing is, it only excuses the head. The rest of the figure isn't exactly awesome, nor is the original head, as seen in the link.
Added some extras for my girlfriend that she doesn't know about. So far my extra total is 38 dollars, but I might add a board game to that... damn mantic taking all my money away.
Switched a few things round in the survey, decided to get rid of the cheerleaders in place of the season 3 keepers and added another mech. Glad I wrote down what I had planned on getting beforehand though, just hope I spent all the money I pledged!
Wow that's a lot of work! I almost ended up buying a second set of every season 2 and 3 teams as I forgot they are included in the Season Upgrade sets only coped it because I forgot to answer a question and got a prompt. I've changed my mind about getting the Acrylic pitch so many times but I juggled a few bits around (didn't really need Hex bases for every single mini - yet) so that it only cost another $40 so I bought it and now it's locked in I can't change my mind again.
Wow, that survey was a drain. Decided on keeping my three bigs to being one each, Nameless Spawn, Alpha Simian(Gonna give him a nice cigar), and Barricade(going to carve him up and stick in some LEDs). I hope that I used up all the money as I thought I was doing, wish they'd enabled a final tally at the end there.
Not too sure if pandora was even remotely a good idea. Mantic claimed that it was a 'kickstarter saving' but it's the exact same price, if not even more expensive than buying it normally.
As someone who has been very harsh about sculpts I don't think work (*cough*Wildcard*cough*), it's only fair that I am equally fulsome in praise when they do things right.
This?
This isone sexy beast. Just about the only thing I would change is a minor rotation of the forearms, and I'm thinking about buying a second one for that. It's an unqualified success.
...come to think of it, I almost regret having filled out the survey without ordering a second one of those. My trusty old full-plate wearing illithid telepath psion character concept would need only minimal conversion from this (actually, just a plain pair of hands, diff pose perhaps)
Looking forward to seeing the production version of this model. Mantic has really been stepping it up in the last couple months. They have come a long way since those abysmal elf and dwarf plastics they originally started with.
Buzzsaw wrote: As someone who has been very harsh about sculpts I don't think work (*cough*Wildcard*cough*), it's only fair that I am equally fulsome in praise when they do things right.
This?
This isone sexy beast. Just about the only thing I would change is a minor rotation of the forearms, and I'm thinking about buying a second one for that. It's an unqualified success.
John Doe looks so good as he is
AND also looks very easy to convert, nice simple cuts could move forearms, shoulders, hips and 'ankles'. The knee joint will be the trickiest, but even that looks do-able for somebody with moderate skill
nkelsch, I don't know if the two sides can glow different colors- at least, maybe a bit of a transition-like color, but in the video the difference in the 2 sides was never very stark (even though the pics make it look like it might be able to do that).
So. I think I've decided on my team names:
Z'zor=The Redskels
Femcorp=The Aggronauts
Judwan= The Longfellows
Nameless= The Anonems(Also called the E-men or Damned Wrigglers)
Corporation= The ManRIs(still working on this one, but I like it because the opposing teams call the members "Man Readily Injured")
The Orkies= The XNOs
Veer-Myn= The Heap Kings("Be readied for a Heapking helping of pain!")
Dwarves= The Dorfstoppers(Another name I'm working on, mostly because I want them to be called "the Doorstoppers" by accident/on purpose)
As to the four teams I'm not getting(YET):
Theraton WaddleWarpers
Zee Armada
Asterian Projections
Robot Painframes(working on this name)
I really don't like that the pledge manager didn't have my pledge, a running total and a summary before confirming. I have no real idea if I went over/under or not.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I really don't like that the pledge manager didn't have my pledge, a running total and a summary before confirming. I have no real idea if I went over/under or not.
Yeah, that was the one thing I didn't like about it. Pretty sure I had everything worked out right though!
Yeah still waiting for my invoice here too, good to see it's not just me. Although I've already forgotten how much extra I went in for, and I've just upped the goodies on my Dredd KS, so probably time to stop buying more minis.
I decided to fill up my season 1 teams, added some prone markers for my GF's season 2 teams, and added project pandora, but I may need to drop that, I forgot I have a speeding ticket to pay.
So I met the Mantic-crew or better Ronny Renton the CEO at the Spiel 2012 in Essen (Germany) and had a very nice chat with him (thanks for the dice ).
I had a look at the acrylic board (very nice) and the painted teams. Now I'm even more happy, that I backed this project!
1) They are working hard to ship the game beginning of December so hopefully we all get it until Chrismas.
2) in the Euro-countries, the game will cost about 60€ (I forgot if he said 59 or 69€)
3) a single team will cost around 15€ (did not ask how many figures are in the box)
Concerning the feedback of us about the design of the MVPS (I asked about Barricade) they are reading the comments.
If the want to change something they think about showing some sketches before the final choice (well I hope they don't change Barricade, but he said there were -as always- people who like him as he is, and people wo don't like him in this form).
Anf for future KS project, they think about telling it a few months in advance so we could prepare our wallets (and our loving wives/girlfriends/etc...)
-Cheers
Ghrik
(yay, my first news-post, hopefully rather accurate )
So, need to finish up my pledge, and not finding the information I need to do it:
-What's the difference between the team deals ($20/25 BOGO), and the teams you get in the competition upgrade ($85 for 4 teams S2/3)?
--Do either of the above include keepers, or are they always separate?
--BOGO teams are 10 models (at Striker!), Completionist 14; anyone have any idea what the extra 4 models are?
I have been looking, and I'm thinking that a lot of these answers may simply not be known or not decided (it seems the number of Guards/Strikers/Jacks haven't been determined for S2/3 teams, so no one knows how many sculpts the teams have).
Buzzsaw wrote: A - What's the difference between the team deals ($20/25 BOGO), and the teams you get in the competition upgrade ($85 for 4 teams S2/3)?
B - Do either of the above include keepers, or are they always separate?
C - BOGO teams are 10 models (at Striker!), Completionist 14; anyone have any idea what the extra 4 models are?
A - The team deals are $20 for one team, or $25 as a BOGOF, and are for 8 models a time. The Completionist deals give 14 models in the deal per team, but there are already 2 models for each team included in Striker, so you end up at 16. The 16 should give you all the figures to max out any basic player type in your team.
Buzzsaw wrote: A - What's the difference between the team deals ($20/25 BOGO), and the teams you get in the competition upgrade ($85 for 4 teams S2/3)?
B - Do either of the above include keepers, or are they always separate?
C - BOGO teams are 10 models (at Striker!), Completionist 14; anyone have any idea what the extra 4 models are?
A - The team deals are $20 for one team, or $25 as a BOGOF, and are for 8 models a time. The Completionist deals give 14 models in the deal per team, but there are already 2 models for each team included in Striker, so you end up at 16. The 16 should give you all the figures to max out any basic player type in your team.
B - Keepers are always separate.
C - See A.
Ah, sorry, I should have been more specific about (A): I know there is a difference in total number of figures, but does anyone know the composition? That is, you get an extra 4 figures in the Completionist deal, but as far as I can tell, it looks like they will be duplicates of sculpts that you will be getting anyway in the team.
I'm trying to figure out if there are any alternate sculpts that you will only get with the completionist package.
There are no sculpts that are completionist only so there should be no need to worry there
and for the season 2/3 figures I'd imagine all the basic (8 figure) teams will come with at least one of each sculpt done
For the season 1 teams there were originally going to be 3 sculpts in each set. These were cast (or were being cast) BEFORE the KS finished so all the stuff for december delivery will be these figures
Going completionist seems the best way to ensure you get the newer sculpts from these 4 teams
(depending on how many of the original sculpts have been cast buying these teams from retail might initially get ony the frist 3 sculpts if you see what I mean)
It's looking like I'm going to go BOGO for Female Corp/Zz'orr, Asterians/Nameless. Then Keepers for the three seasons. That comes to ($25+$25+$15+$8+$15) $88, I'm iffy on the prones, but that would be another $8, so a total of $96.
That compares to $85 for the Completionist package* (which includes prone figures) and $38 for keepers, so $123.
Hmmm... so, are 16 figures worth $27? That's a pretty darned aggressive price point for them... Dangit, I may have just reasoned myself into paying more money! Or I could take the difference and turn it into cheerleaders...
Decisions, decisions...
*Just to make sure people know, you can mix and match teams in the Completionist bundles.
*Just to make sure people know, you can mix and match teams in the Completionist bundles.
Fairly sure the Completionist bundles are set deals you get exactly what's listed in the contents no options and you can't mix and match between Season 2 and 3 teams with Completionist that's what the BOGOF offer is for.
That had been my thought too, but in the comments on Update #90, there is the following exchange;
Liam Hall on October 8
Previously before the season 3 completionist came out there was the option to add $5 and have S3 teams in the S2 completionist add-on as a mix and match.
Is that still the case?
Creator Mantic Games on October 9
Blaine is included too
@ Liam Hall - Yes. On the survey just select either the Season 2 bundle or the Season 3 bundle and just write in the comments that you want to mix and match (and the list which teams you want). We'll sort that out manually on our side.
@ Jan - correct, you will need to add those on if you want them.
@ Brage - the alternate sculpts will not be ready until next year so the team boxes will ship with the figures we have now.
@ Rashktak - shipping should be included as part of your pledge amount. It doesn't matter if you've not included it, once we've got the survey back we'll send over a paypal invoice for the shipping.
@ Frank - The upgrade packs also include the Buy One Get One Free teams.
RE: Barricade - we're unlikely to see an amended Barricade sketch before the survey is finished. We've Roberto making the final amendments and sketches to the Season 2 teams which we need to get out to tooling ASAP.
@ Jon - The thing is we don't know what the alternately posed miniatures are yet either so we're unable to give you a detailed breakdown, particularly on Season 2 and season 3 teams which haven't even been playtested yet. We've an idea of what the team composition will be like, but it's dictated by the results of playtests which in turn will dictate the sculpts. The current thinking will be that the female Corporation team for instance can take only one Guard, which would suggest that we wouldn't do an alternate guard sculpt. however, if this doesn't work in playtesting, then we need to do a second. Loosely, where possible, either player position will have alternatively posed miniatures. There aren't any alternate bitz and models are sprueless. The alts in the concept art are for us as a design choice - they are "this bit could look like this or like this, or even like this."
So, going by what they said, you can mix and match (but you have to let them know).
Incidentally, in looking this up I realized that the prone markers in Striker! are for both Season 1 and Season 2... something I had glossed over.
There is a lot of information in the comments of that update, actually...
First Veer-myn sculpt (out of both Dreadball and Warpath) that I actually like.
More sci-fi rats please, less steampunk fantasy rats.
Seriously, that Veer-myn guard is just so plain so much better-designed and sculpted than the current warpath models:
...and I *really* hope that Warpath 2.0 remakes the models in that cleaner sci-fi style, rather than continuing to entrench the range into a fantasy/ steampunk style.
scarletsquig wrote:First Veer-myn sculpt (out of both Dreadball and Warpath) that I actually like.
More sci-fi rats please, less steampunk fantasy rats.
Seriously, that Veer-myn guard is just so plain so much better-designed and sculpted than the current warpath models:
I disagree. I think both are a matter of paint job. Take that DB guard and paint up in yellow with a super dark black shading in the recesses and he'll look the same as the WP ones.
Two MVPs are on the blog now... Both looking good! They should smash all the ver-myn warpath molds with a hammer and basically make hand-swap upgrade kits for the dreadball figs.
So the Veer Myn Guards and MVP are on larger circular bases I wondered how they'd fit on the small base alright had I known that I wouldn't have bought as many clear Hex Bases oh well plenty of spares then.
Nice to see the sculpts being churned out. I wonder if the latest ones have been done for a while and they were just holding back on showing them? Both look great anyway!
I just dropped mantic an email asking about what happens with the electronic copies of the rulebook since I've got cheerleader. Since that is 2x striker, that'd be for sharing with a mate of mine.
The club bundles would also be a fairly big deal for that too, I'd assume.
It looks more like they were inspired by the Silver Centurion suit of armour that Iron Man used for a while, but that's just me - maybe you both used the same source of inspiration...
It looks more like they were inspired by the Silver Centurion suit of armour that Iron Man used for a while, but that's just me - maybe you both used the same source of inspiration...
That's exactly right. I posted a WIP pic on the Mantic forums a few weeks ago...
Looks like a really high-quality set, the board is nice and solid, the inside has compartments to store everything and you can get a look at the clear hex bases in there too.
I like the Enforcer a lot. He will definitely find use as a super hero...er, star player. Lucky Logan also looks quite good, although his hair could stand a good combing.
I'm only part-way through the rulebook, but the fact that all subs can only enter through the one square, it sounds like "plugging the exit" might be a strategy for not-squishy teams when going up against squishy ones?
Groundh0g wrote: I'm only part-way through the rulebook, but the fact that all subs can only enter through the one square, it sounds like "plugging the exit" might be a strategy for not-squishy teams when going up against squishy ones?
I dunno, it seems like the game is too fast-paced to waste a position and turns blocking the hole. And I don't feel like models will be going off frequently.
The idea of making the cage and doing a slow score doesn't seem useful either yet. It almost feels like maximizing the 1-turn score is the name of the game.
I am excited as it sounds fun but I really need to play some games to fully understand the tactics.
Groundh0g wrote: I'm only part-way through the rulebook, but the fact that all subs can only enter through the one square, it sounds like "plugging the exit" might be a strategy for not-squishy teams when going up against squishy ones?
I dunno, it seems like the game is too fast-paced to waste a position and turns blocking the hole. And I don't feel like models will be going off frequently.
The idea of making the cage and doing a slow score doesn't seem useful either yet. It almost feels like maximizing the 1-turn score is the name of the game.
I am excited as it sounds fun but I really need to play some games to fully understand the tactics.
I'm thinking plugging the exit might be this game's version of the cage (or the stall, at least) - ie. get up a few scores, then plug the exit, concentrate on bashing, and wait for the turns to expire.
But yeah, hard to really know without actually playing.
Standing in front of the exit hex is a foul. If the ref sees it, the character has a 50:50 chance of taking a trip to the sin bin. So, there's a risk associated with it.
the_dunner wrote: Standing in front of the exit hex is a foul. If the ref sees it, the character has a 50:50 chance of taking a trip to the sin bin. So, there's a risk associated with it.
Well, I guess one of your other characters will have to smash the ref from the side, huh? Having legitimate eyes in the back of her head does make it hard to sneak up from behind.
the_dunner wrote: Standing in front of the exit hex is a foul. If the ref sees it, the character has a 50:50 chance of taking a trip to the sin bin. So, there's a risk associated with it.
Yah, 2 pages later, there it is.
Although I have no problem with stalling in Blood Bowl (...playing CDs most of the time is probably the main reason why...), it's also gotta be one of the least fun tactics and bogs it down into a 1-player game for a long stretch, so I'm glad DB has rules to help prevent it.
I've finished the rule book now and I have to say that I like how it sounds. Very interested to see how it translates to actually playing the game. Going to take awhile to get any kind of a strategy down, as I have no clue how I'm going to start things...
Compel wrote: I just dropped mantic an email asking about what happens with the electronic copies of the rulebook since I've got cheerleader. Since that is 2x striker, that'd be for sharing with a mate of mine.
The club bundles would also be a fairly big deal for that too, I'd assume.
I ordered the Cheerleader, too.
Since my name got stuck on the downloaded rules, I emailed them back (see the addresses in the email) and they sent another download link.
Just make a new account on the download signon site with the name of your club, and it goes in the new copy...
It took all of an hour for them to email me back, on a Sunday
Very interested to see how it translates to actually playing the game. Going to take awhile to get any kind of a strategy down, as I have no clue how I'm going to start things...
i had a demo in brizzle and we played without the cards and the ref just to learn the base mechanics similar to the how to play video they put out on kickstarter. it has a one or two minor errors in it but it's close enough.
as for strategy i think one of the games designers was on board game Geek answering questions...
Very interested to see how it translates to actually playing the game. Going to take awhile to get any kind of a strategy down, as I have no clue how I'm going to start things...
i had a demo in brizzle and we played without the cards and the ref just to learn the base mechanics similar to the how to play video they put out on kickstarter. it has a one or two minor errors in it but it's close enough.
as for strategy i think one of the games designers was on board game Geek answering questions...
cut n thrust back in October sometime. A couple of the guys from mantic were down with a demo set and loads of the guys were interested and went and pledged on the kickstarter. I think the store is getting copies of the game in if you've not picked it up yet, should be a great community of people to play against. better than area 51 though i don't really know any other stores in the area...
Black Nexus wrote: cut n thrust back in October sometime. A couple of the guys from mantic were down with a demo set and loads of the guys were interested and went and pledged on the kickstarter. I think the store is getting copies of the game in if you've not picked it up yet, should be a great community of people to play against. better than area 51 though i don't really know any other stores in the area...
Ahh. Used to go to C&T alot. It's gone now, so don't think they will be getting anything in!
Black Nexus wrote: cut n thrust back in October sometime. A couple of the guys from mantic were down with a demo set and loads of the guys were interested and went and pledged on the kickstarter. I think the store is getting copies of the game in if you've not picked it up yet, should be a great community of people to play against. better than area 51 though i don't really know any other stores in the area...
Ahh. Used to go to C&T alot. It's gone now, so don't think they will be getting anything in!
Off topic, but I was under the impression Cut & Thrust were just closed down for a month while the upstairs of the building was converted into offices? I believe that's what their email circular said in any case.
Anyone else not get that email? I saw that people were getting emails with a link for their downloadable rulebook while at work and got all excited to get home and download it. No emails here though, nothing since the survey was sent out.
Sinphonite wrote: Anyone else not get that email? I saw that people were getting emails with a link for their downloadable rulebook while at work and got all excited to get home and download it. No emails here though, nothing since the survey was sent out.
With the launch of the DreadBall just around the corner, we need your help to build a support network that'll help us grow and support the DreadBall community. Effectively we’re looking to set up a real-world DreadBall Governing Body!
Online
We've already built the DreadBall.com website and the new Forum and we want to turn this over and have it community run. We’re looking for people with fantastic organisation skills and hobbyists with technical abilities (coding, graphics etc.) who can keep the site buzzing with content whilst keeping it up to date with the latest events and offer support to gaming groups.
Mantic will of course support it with all the latest news, info and gossip (and pay the server costs too!)
Organised Play
But that’s not all - The game has been designed for league and tournament play and we need help taking it across the world. Any passionate individuals that can work with the community to set-up tournaments and events, and volunteers who can work with clubs to develop leagues and demo the game to the public.
Email chris.palmer@manticgames.com with what skills you feel you can offer and any experience you’ve had and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible.
So, the more players we can get, the more opponents you’ll have to play against. Don't wait - get in the game!
We look forwards to hearing from you!
Warehouse Closing Monday!
Our warehouse is closing on Monday 12th as our entire staff are building up copies of DreadBall.
This means that come Monday we will not be able to ship out any mail orders until the week commencing 26th November, making this your final chance to get anything before the end of November!
Isn't Buzzcut supposed to be human, but with insane increase in size...more like an ogre than an orx? Also, I love the model. He's awesome. Not 100% on Wildcard, not bad, not great, just that I was hoping for identical to the concept art (pose and everything). I realize she should be in an action pose, but I think she looked awesome standing there, with a 'take no gak' attitude. However, there will probably be offers up for my Zee models when they get in-I don't want my Zee's, or the MVP, unless the sculpts are way more awesome than the concept picture. They were really the only team I had no interest in. Everything else so far makes me swoon (or would, if I knew how to).
We’re expecting the final components for the game in on Monday and then we begin the manic task of building thousands of copies of DreadBall.
These are filled with DreadBall boxes. Thousands of them.
In the next two weeks we will build all the stock and then we will starter dispatching it.
Backer Support
We’ve pushed really hard to get as much of your reward into the first shipment as possible. As we send the Kickstarters we’ve managed to get both:
- Premium Co-prosperity Park Stadium
- Quadrant Zero Arena Gaming pitch
- Acrylic counters
- Strike Zone Upgrade Packs.
We’ve also locked Ronnie in a room with over 2500 pieces of cover art to sign and a further 2500 tickets as well, exclusive to backers.
But that’s not all – we’ve spoken to our manufacturing partners and we’ve secured the second batch of MVPs early. This means you’ll actually receive the first eight MVPs in your December shipment:
- Lucky Logan
- Slippery Joe
- The Enforcer
- Reek Rolat
- Number 88
- John Doe
- Wildcard
The first four MVPs will ship to retailers in late December and the second batch will go on general sale in January.
see above for the buzzcut picture
Buzzcut isn’t ready just yet but looks absolutely stunning. He'll be shipping a little later.
But we want to be totally honest, although your copy will be in the post positively bursting with miniatures goodness and the next three months releases, there is a (small) chance that distributors will ship quickly and you may see the game hit the shelves of some retailers. However, yours will be packed full of exclusive goodies and early rewards as we strive to make this first parcel the most exciting thing you’ll have ever had – well, until the next one arrives!
Access to everything!
Thanks to your backing and support DreadBall is receiving a big reception out in the stores and there are a couple of really great shows coming up as well – we’re over in TableTop Nation this Saturday in fact if you want to try out the game – where we’ll have some goodies with us and lots of demoes.
For the record, over the coming months we might a few conversions or new product that we did not think of back in the Kickstarter, and anything we bring to these shows will be available to you guys as well and at your special Kickstarter rates, so simply message us if there’s anything that takes your fancy and we’ll include it in the next delivery.
Not long to go until you get your box of DreadBall – thanks for being patient and for your backing.
It's good to see Ronnie will be really signing the prints and tickets (what a task!) which is a step up from the stamp signature Zombicide went with
Also good to see huge piles of boxes
here's hoping the rest of the bits arrive on time!
I will absolutely give Mantic credit for taking their Kickstarters and fulfilling their pledges very seriously. Their last update before this one informed people that they're closing down the warehouse for mail order for 2 full weeks. Not sure if that also includes to retailers as well, hopefully they can still keep retailers supplied.
Heh, Ronnie tends to show a bit of a thousand-yard stare at times, I've noticed before
@Scipio I believe a lot of retailers actually get mantic stuff via distributors - which *should* have a week or two of spare stock, generally speaking. Also, there was plenty of pre-warning, so chances are everyone has properly stocked up!
Buzzsaw is a very nice looking minature and so far from what we have been shown the sculpts are all on the plus side. Even Wildcard is looking good, the original green was shabby but this painted example and what I took to be the model itself on the table in front of Ronnie in the unboxing video, looks almost like a balletic discus thrower.
Talking of the video, I was really pleased to get sight of the clear hex bases and even more chuffed to see that is was really easy to put a model in and out of the it.
With the quick revision of the Rulebook download, quick responses to queries, Mantic are showing some companies what customer service should be.
Ronnie, Chris and the Mantic crew have always been great! Can't wait for the kickstarter stuff - Have way too much coming, but the kids and I are uber-excited!
Not strictly news, but I thought this may interest some of you. Paw2013 is a wargames convention located in the heart of Plymouth, UK, Feb 2nd & 3rd. They are planning on running some Dreadball demos and even a small league game. Heres the quote from their main site:
The club is now backer 1800 of Dreadball on Kickstarter! We have pledged $290 for the Cheerleader bundle. So we will demoing Dreadball at PAW 2013 and if there is sufficient interest we will be running a mini League over the weekend.
Awesome. Why can't the warpath sculpts look anywhere close to this? This orx and the proportions are so much better than the warpath minis.
because of the compromise you have to make for multi-part wargames miniatures. these are two-piece boardgames minis afterall... you'd get something similar to these if you took skirmish models and put them in squads, but hobbyists want to convert and weapon swap and all that, so you lose some poseability and some of the art in putting in a degree of engineering so they fit etc.
that and it's a new sculpt and the Marauders are based ont he Orc models, that's also the problem...
Awesome. Why can't the warpath sculpts look anywhere close to this? This orx and the proportions are so much better than the warpath minis.
because of the compromise you have to make for multi-part wargames miniatures. these are two-piece boardgames minis afterall... you'd get something similar to these if you took skirmish models and put them in squads, but hobbyists want to convert and weapon swap and all that, so you lose some poseability and some of the art in putting in a degree of engineering so they fit etc.
that and it's a new sculpt and the Marauders are based on the Orc models, that's also the problem...
Nothing you say explains why a multi-part model has drastically different scale limbs and hands, totally different facial features and requires 'torn leather dumpster pants and bare feet' opposed to space armor and boots.
We are not talking about limitations from molding, we are talking about why they have tiny t-rex hands, hobo-pants and no shoes in one line but look amazing in dreadball. They are supposedly the same scale? If this is mantic's 'hero' scale, then they should change everything they make to this scale as the hero-proportioned sculpts look great compared to their multipart alternatives.
it's a new sculpt and the Marauders are based on the Orc models, that's also the problem...
that covers it.
the maruaders in warpath are based on the fantasy models which have normally proportioned features compared to their Ork counterparts (IMHO) where it's ok not to have shoes, done on different concept art. difference is mike and roberto directed the dreadball look, and Remy sculpted it. that's why it looks so much better... because it's a dedicated sci-fi model has opposed to a rehash of a fantasy sprue. Same with the ff... hopefully future wp marauders follow this look (the warlord did) and they ditch the plastic troopers. or do the rippers or the one's with guns as cool models.
also looks like the crazy christmas box is back...
Yeah, the fantasy base is the problem with the plastic FF and Marauder models for Warpath, not the true-scale.
Stormrage veterans look a lot better than the steel warriors simply because they're not based on the KoW dwarfs (which are actually quite heroic scale and have giant hands and feet).
I'm really looking forward to Warpath getting the same treatment as Dreadball, with a completely revamped miniature line, and tons of new stuff.
It had a bit of a false start last year, and it would be great to see that corrected now that the rules have been completely changed into something much better.
I think it could easily hit 2 million or so, there's a lot of us holding off on getting any warpath until that kickstarter comes along next year so we can go nuts.
I think it could easily hit 2 million or so, there's a lot of us holding off on getting any warpath until that kickstarter comes along next year so we can go nuts.
Yes I think so too! I have a small collection of little guys, but I'm waiting for the inevitable kickstarter to get an entire space-dwarf horde
Dysartes wrote: I think that crazy box is worth picking up, especially if the Stormrage vets and Jotunn are fixed, so to speak.
I was going to pick up one (or two) but their website's exchange rates are really dodgy between UKP and US$ (which RoW has to buy in to get "free shipping." - No 20% VAT refund plus it's actually $5 more expensive than the actual UKP-USD rates...)
"We're getting there Waiting on a few MVPs for the Kickstarter crowd! Rumour has that the Forge Father and Veer-myn teams are in the warehouse next week though "
just for the £24.99+£8 postage then if you worried about the row postage...
i'm really tempted by the box as its got both wp vehicles in it and apparently there are some people who have already received there pre-orders of the box already which really makes me want one of the boxes that and there's loads of models in it...
yeah the whole thing with SW sucks a little bit... there's another photo on the fb page of the guys doing some photography and it looks like they have got some resins of the other mvps (maybe for fit? painting?) so they can't be far away either...
I'm going to sit on my steps and hyperventilate until it shows up, once the email goes out that they've shipped. Unless I'm at work. Then I'll cry myself to sleep until I get home to get them. (working December 1st, 2 days away from home, then work'll take me from home for another 4 days later in the month)
Looks like a trophy, John Doe, Number 88 Gorim Ironstone and Coach Renton.
Also, new Iron Ancestor kit with dual twin-linked hailstorm autocannon arms and Drakkarim.
They'll probably be the December releases for Mantic, if not the Dreadball stuff, the Forgefather release wave has been mentioned for some time now, and will probably be something like new Iron Ancestor upgrade kits, new Drakkarim and Thorgarim (hopefully in restic and not hybrid metal, nobody likes hybrid metal).
Just put an order in for Dreadball (missed the KS sadly), a very reasonable £34.99 from Total Wargamer. Hopefully it won't be too long until it is released!
Mantic will be failing to deliver the pledges in January for people who backed for January delivery.
They'll be shipping them in December instead, all 2500 Striker packages are all going out at the same time.
Gotta love a company that doesn't over-promise and under-deliver and instead takes a cautious approach, but then goes out of its way to get things done ahead of schedule.
New update, Shipping starts Monday 26th, and Striker due to go out the Monday after that (they're waiting for the 1st 8 MVPs to arrive)
We are getting close to the goal – that goal obviously being the dispatch of over 2500 Kickstarter pledges!
The first of our Kickstarter pledges will start shipping next week, and with the 8 MVPs (the final components) arriving as well we will start shipping Strikers a week on Monday!
Void Sirens Female Corporation Tester Colour Scheme - watch out for updates next week as we’ve got new stuff to show off!
The next piece of exciting news is that we saved enough copies of the game to ship all of the Kickstarter Pledges scheduled for January ahead of Christmas. They will now ship at the same time as everyone else’s Kickstarter rewards.
Just to keep you informed we will be shipping out distributor orders next week as well, so if any are super quick they may hit shelves next Saturday - but they should be arriving at the same time as yours the following week - though obviously without the MVPs and the other goodies you’ll all have in your first shipment! We needed to get the trade orders sent in parallel if they were to get into the retail outlets for Christmas - we think this will bring lots more people into the game - and means lots more games, tournaments and events throughout 2013!
We would have liked to have got you the first shipment earlier but as we discussed in Update 94, we thought you’d prefer all 8 of the MVPs in the first shipment rather than the second shipment in Q2 2013. Retailers won’t actually see the first four MVPs until the end of December and the remaining four until the end of January - so you will have 8 of the first 9 MVPs a month ahead of the rest! But in the few occasions that they do hit the stores before you get yours thanks for your patience and understanding.
Locust City Chiefs Z'zor Team Colour Tester
We’ve got a couple more exciting things in that first package which we’ll share with you next week. Starting on the 1st December we’re also going to be running the 12 Sculpts of Christmas, alternating the kickstarter with our Kings of War Kickstarter Campaign by showing off lots of new figures that are coming off the sculptors' desks, and we've got some new events to talk lots about as well - please stay tuned to the updates page, sign up to our newsletter and like us on Facebook to keep up-to-date with the going-ons at the Mantic Bunker!
I'm not sure how real life can fix that. Do I need to hold it close enough for the parallax effect of my two eyes to work, like with a Magic Eye image? What will customers with only one functioning eye do?
The thing with Wildcard is that while I'm really not a fan of the pose they decided to go with, or the final figure, it's just one of many, many "free" figures that I'll be getting through the Kickstarter. Is it disappointing, when compared to the art? Sure. Did the figure to have the potential to be one of my favourites? Yeah, it did. But as I've said, given the context, and the fact that I'm not being asked to pay £10/$15 for it (not that I would, for this sculpt), I'm able to let it go through as "a swing and a miss"-type figure.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: New update, Shipping starts Monday 26th, and Striker due to go out the Monday after that (they're waiting for the 1st 8 MVPs to arrive)
We are getting close to the goal – that goal obviously being the dispatch of over 2500 Kickstarter pledges!
The first of our Kickstarter pledges will start shipping next week, and with the 8 MVPs (the final components) arriving as well we will start shipping Strikers a week on Monday!
Hm. Not entirely happy with it. By shipping strikers during the first week of Jan (between the 3rd and 7th), RoW delivery before Christmas for parcels these sizes drops from "almost definitely" to "maybe, if we're lucky". Hopefully there are no more delays and they come through. I'm no longer expecting this in my hands before Christmas, though.
I'm not sure how real life can fix that. Do I need to hold it close enough for the parallax effect of my two eyes to work, like with a Magic Eye image? What will customers with only one functioning eye do?
The thing with Wildcard is that while I'm really not a fan of the pose they decided to go with, or the final figure, it's just one of many, many "free" figures that I'll be getting through the Kickstarter. Is it disappointing, when compared to the art? Sure. Did the figure to have the potential to be one of my favourites? Yeah, it did. But as I've said, given the context, and the fact that I'm not being asked to pay £10/$15 for it (not that I would, for this sculpt), I'm able to let it go through as "a swing and a miss"-type figure.
The main reason I keep bringing it up is to highlight the consequences of rushed reward fulfillment, as well as responding to a poster who basically said, "no one has found any reason to complain about any recent sculpts" or something like that. If Wildcard isn't the Drakon Rider of Dreadball, then she is at least its Twilight Kin Assassin. I was really hoping for better, although I'm not about to panic and rage quit. I will just give her away. She isalso an excellent reminder for me not to get my hopes up, just like Peter Jackson's King Kong reminds me not to have high expectations for The Hobbit.
Actually, her legally blonde pose makes me think this uptown girl is looking for a downtown man, and "That's what Buzzcut am!" Yes, I am now a Buzzcut-Wildcard shipper. I will call them "Buzzard."
He will hold her for the lonnnnnnnngest time. And pet her, and squeeze her, and call her "George".
I guess what I am really getting at is this: Mantic, please don't screw up any model I really care about. Unfortunately, I only know two forms of communicating this with them: passive-aggressive Mrs. Wolowitz-ing and always-disapproving Tiger Mom-ing.
Now why can't they sculpt better women like that nice Tre Manor boy down the street? He always listens to his customers.
Here we are. Christmas shipping dates taken from Warlord Games' webstore:
Warlord Games wrote:
South & Central America, Caribbean, Africa, Middle East, Asia, Far East (including Japan), Australia and New Zealand: place order by Friday 30th November
Though Mantic list some more ...optimistic dates:
Mantic Games wrote:
5th December – if you’re based outside of America, Canada, UK or Europe then you need to place your order before the 5th to guarantee it before Christmas!
7th December – Based in America, Canada or Europe? Get your order in before the 7th!
18th December – Final shipping deadline for the UK!
Obviously, DB KS orders will already be considered "placed", but 2 weeks shipping time from the UK to RoW is pretty optimistic.. I wouldn't have the word "guarantee" up there myself. Especially as there's no actual guarantee...
The main reason I keep bringing it up is to highlight the consequences of rushed reward fulfillment, as well as responding to a poster who basically said, "no one has found any reason to complain about any recent sculpts" or something like that. If Wildcard isn't the Drakon Rider of Dreadball, then she is at least its Twilight Kin Assassin. I was really hoping for better, although I'm not about to panic and rage quit. I will just give her away. She isalso an excellent reminder for me not to get my hopes up, just like Peter Jackson's King Kong reminds me not to have high expectations for The Hobbit.
OK, I'll give you that. The thing is that the Mantic guys (and Ronnie) may be too close to the project as well to be entirely objective. I've seen some awful-looking products in my time that have been thought of as "just fine" all the way to "fantastic" by their creators, while many, many others have thought they were just awful.
But I am looking forward to the Hobbit. I'm expecting it to be broadly as good as LotR, and broadly as accurate to the books.
On average, most parcels from the UK online retailers I buy from have taken 10 days to reach me. So if they do manage to ship it by the 3rd, I'm fairly hopeful it'll reach me by the 22nd even with the busy period.
Sining wrote: On average, most parcels from the UK online retailers I buy from have taken 10 days to reach me. So if they do manage to ship it by the 3rd, I'm fairly hopeful it'll reach me by the 22nd even with the busy period.
Yeah, usually 10-14 days for me as well, tending towards the former. However, with Christmas post times about to hit...
edit - it's unlikely that they'll be shipping your parcel "by the third" - that's when they're starting to send them out, hence my concern.
OK, I'll give you that. The thing is that the Mantic guys (and Ronnie) may be too close to the project as well to be entirely objective. I've seen some awful-looking products in my time that have been thought of as "just fine" all the way to "fantastic" by their creators, while many, many others have thought they were just awful.
In general, I seriously think this is the reason why artist-led companies produce superior sculpts to business-led companies.
A creative person generally knows full well whether something looks bad or not and can be their own harshest critic (compare Dreamforge to Mantic.. Mark is a sculptor, Ronnie is a seller... the former has absolutely zero tolerance for even the tiniest flaw to appear in any area of the product, whereas Mantic I feel has often ran into the business or "bean-counter" -led decision of "we wanted to make it cool, but didn't have the money/time to do it properly but decided to rush it out anyway", with last year's initial Warpath release being the most obvious example of biting off more than they could chew. Realistically speaking, Warpath won't actually be *released* until next year in my eyes and a lot of others since that will be the point where it has really good rules (the 2.0 rules are very, very good), and whatever awesomeness comes out of the company's 3rd kickstarter.
So far, Dreadball is flat-out the only game Mantic has produced that hasn't been rushed to market on a tight deadline and limited budget. And it really shows.
The fact that Wildcard is the only sculpt out of the 2 dozen or so they've done so far that can be considered "average" rather than "awesome" is really good going.
An excellent post, and I'm a little surprised to see it come from you, if only because you've been so positive towards Mantic for the longest time. I think you're spot on in many/most of your criticisms. I didn't realise the Enforcers were half-arsed as well, but now I know not to bother, until the "retool" option comes up in next year's Kickstarter...
...and funnily enough my first Mantic sets was Morgoth's Revenge, featuring the really nice undead, and the dwarfs, which got put away somewhere. I wouldn't call all of the other DB sculpts awesome though. Personal opinion and all that of course.
scipio.au wrote: An excellent post, and I'm a little surprised to see it come from you, if only because you've been so positive towards Mantic for the longest time. I think you're spot on in many/most of your criticisms. I didn't realise the Enforcers were half-arsed as well, but now I know not to bother, until the "retool" option comes up in next year's Kickstarter...
...and funnily enough my first Mantic sets was Morgoth's Revenge, featuring the really nice undead, and the dwarfs, which got put away somewhere. I wouldn't call all of the other DB sculpts awesome though. Personal opinion and all that of course.
I personally think the Enforcers are some of the best sci-fi sculpts on the market (I love all of Remy's sculpts) - but I hate the alternate squads with metals bits. I'm honestly waiting until they either redo them as hard plastic, or at least as a full restic line. No one, no one, no one likes hybrid kits, Mantic! Urgh!
I agree - think the Enforcers are lovely sculpts, and look really good when assembled! I think if you could accuse anything of being half-arsed about them it would have to be the production method (hybrid kit) rather than the actual quality of the sculpt itself.
Pacific wrote: I agree - think the Enforcers are lovely sculpts, and look really good when assembled! I think if you could accuse anything of being half-arsed about them it would have to be the production method (hybrid kit) rather than the actual quality of the sculpt itself.
The legs are terrible. The Dreadball version shows how skinny and non-realistic the legs of the Warpath models are. It looks like robot legs, not human legs in a robotic suit. They need to basically retool the legs to be 10% thicker and they know it.
judgedoug wrote: Huh? What's wrong with their legs? They look like iron man.
Spoiler:
They're not thick n' chunky but it looks fine for being not-chunky-heroic scale.
Bad poses... the part above the knee makes it too thin for a human leg. The bad pose makes it seem like he is lurching along naturally. Ironman's armor int hat picture looks like armor, and the mechanical parts are fictional assumed to be there. The exoskeleton look of the enforcers armor is too thick and big and mechanical for legs to be within those plates. the person in that suit would need to be a malnutritioned beanpole.
I was told like a majority of mantic's bad models, 'looks better in person' as flaws from one angle somehow gone in person. I have seen them in person. It doesn't look good. A models can look good from all angles.
The exoskeleton look of the enforcers armor is too thick and big and mechanical for legs to be within those plates. the person in that suit would need to be a malnutritioned beanpole.
Dude... I dunno. I think they look like Iron Man's knees. I don't see anything to complain about. But I'm a fan of truescale and not heroic chunky scale, so shrug I guess.
The exoskeleton look of the enforcers armor is too thick and big and mechanical for legs to be within those plates. the person in that suit would need to be a malnutritioned beanpole.
Dude... I dunno. I think they look like Iron Man's knees. I don't see anything to complain about. But I'm a fan of truescale and not heroic chunky scale, so shrug I guess.
Spoiler:
Not even the pose? The really unnatural pose which doesn't look good from any angle?
Pacific wrote: I agree - think the Enforcers are lovely sculpts, and look really good when assembled! I think if you could accuse anything of being half-arsed about them it would have to be the production method (hybrid kit) rather than the actual quality of the sculpt itself.
Yeah, I think they look great as well. I thought that was pretty obvious. And yep, my "half-arsed" comment was about them being hybrid kits.
The legs are terrible. The Dreadball version shows how skinny and non-realistic the legs of the Warpath models are. It looks like robot legs, not human legs in a robotic suit. They need to basically retool the legs to be 10% thicker and they know it.
Also, this. As I recall, we discussed that when they were first shown. No room for knees in that armour...
scipio.au wrote: An excellent post, and I'm a little surprised to see it come from you, if only because you've been so positive towards Mantic for the longest time.
Common misconception (and one that you should be aware of by now!), I'm actually one of their biggest (albeit politely spoken and long-winded) critics when posting on their forums.. I focus on trying to make sure they're aware of issues with pricing, material and QC that crop up with their product, as well as being a strong advocate for free, well-balanced rules since they're the thing that really hooked me in the first place.
Whereas when posting on Dakka I focus on highlighting the positives more often simply because the majority of Mantic-related posts on here are negative and gloss over, dismiss, or ignore the good points.*
If you do see me posting something that leans towards a positive bias, it's probably in reply to a post with an overwhelmingly negative bias or in a thread where there is literally nothing but but negativity. I'm not an infallible neutrality machine, but I do tend to call it as I see it, regardless of what opinion that gives people of me. On this forum, I'm seen by some as a Mantic fanboi/ water carrier/ paid corporate shill, whereas on the Mantic forums I'm probably seen by some as "that whining git that never stops whining". For example, I've recently made long posts on there about the free rules release for KoW and QC on the goblin sprue and enforcers, all things which Mantic are aware of and sorting out because they're awesome and do listen to you as long as you're not being a dick about it.
As for Wildcard, pretty much anything female from Mantic tends to result in this wave of "her breasts/hips/waist/feet/face are too big/small/ugly/pretty" internet rage that lasts for months. I'm not saying it isn't valid in places, Wildcard isn't quite as good as the Remy sculpts, but still, it's really amusing. First we had the complaints over no female corp for warpath, now wildcard is causing all kinds of gak. Can't wait to see what happens when the female team is released.. or the BBW MVP for that matter. Should be fun!
*See 100-250 pages of Mantic posts on here for proof of this.
I actually think the issues with Wildcard aren't over her proportions, but her pose. Mantic also aren't exactly overflowing with female sculpts, either. The Vampiress does actually look pretty bad (from the last I saw of it). Um.. there's an Elf sorceress. And a Dark Elf sorceress who looks okay (I have it, somewhere).
I'll answer the Mantic neutrality stuff later. it's after midnight here, and my brain's no longer working well enough for a fully engaging, intelligent and charming reply. I might just come across like a dick instead..
scipio.au wrote: I actually think the issues with Wildcard aren't over her proportions, but her pose. Mantic also aren't exactly overflowing with female sculpts, either. The Vampiress does actually look pretty bad (from the last I saw of it). Um.. there's an Elf sorceress. And a Dark Elf sorceress who looks okay (I have it, somewhere).
I'll answer the Mantic neutrality stuff later. it's after midnight here, and my brain's no longer working well enough for a fully engaging, intelligent and charming reply. I might just come across like a dick instead..
Let the spirit of Vinnie fill you...
Anyway, regardless of what anyone might say, I'm sure most posters here are really glad of your input ScarletSquig.. at the risk of sounding like a brown-nosing gakker, it is very appreciated!
I'll answer the Mantic neutrality stuff later. it's after midnight here, and my brain's no longer working well enough for a fully engaging, intelligent and charming reply. I might just come across like a dick instead..
I'm not so sure we need some sort of investigation of his claims - let's take him at his word and go from there, yeah?
If you need any further proof, I'll be the first to point out that the Gorim Ironstone has a scaling issue.
He's sculpted in true-scale, whereas the rest of the forgefather dreadball sculpts are heroic-scale with giant hands.
They're both good-looking sculpts (keeping the closed mask from the concept art would have been better, IMO), but Gorim might look a little bit lean next to the rest of the team.
Hard to tell for sure without comparison shots, though.
scarletsquig wrote: ... For example, I've recently made long posts on there about the free rules release for KoW and QC on the goblin sprue and enforcers, all things which Mantic are aware of and sorting out because they're awesome and do listen to you as long as you're not being a dick about it.
I would like to second this: I gave some rather trenchant criticism of Wildcard through Kickstarter, and the response has been quite cordial, as well as resolving other issues with the kickstarter. A very nice customer service interaction, tip top!
scarletsquig wrote: As for Wildcard, pretty much anything female from Mantic tends to result in this wave of "her breasts/hips/waist/feet/face are too big/small/ugly/pretty" internet rage that lasts for months. I'm not saying it isn't valid in places, Wildcard isn't quite as good as the Remy sculpts, but still, it's really amusing. First we had the complaints over no female corp for warpath, now wildcard is causing all kinds of gak. Can't wait to see what happens when the female team is released.. or the BBW MVP for that matter. Should be fun!
In all fairness, has Mantic actually produced a female sculpt in any line that can be regarded as "good", as opposed to simply "inoffensively mediocre"? The only female sculpts I can even think of off hand are the Twilight Kin, which are... ehh.
Wildcard has some pretty obvious flaws as I see them, which turn the model (for me at least) from "that's really got potential" to "at least it's free".
The comparison to Helga (Bertha? I dunno, the big boned woman) are somewhat misplaced in that Helga will be some version of what she clearly is in concept: a rotund woman. People who want that (which, in fairness, does not include me) will be satisfied, one presumes with any realization that stays true to that concept. The only way they would be annoyed is if she came out slender and athletic. Wildcard, by contrast, didn't have to have a crappy pose and gogo boots, but somehow she ended up with them. Go figure.
scarletsquig wrote: If you need any further proof, I'll be the first to point out that the Gorim Ironstone has a scaling issue.
He's sculpted in true-scale, whereas the rest of the forgefather dreadball sculpts are heroic-scale with giant hands.
They're both good-looking sculpts (keeping the closed mask from the concept art would have been better, IMO), but Gorim might look a little bit lean next to the rest of the team.
Hard to tell for sure without comparison shots, though.
I'm with you-I'm not a big fan of Gorim's scaling. His whole torso looks WAY too thin. I think I may prefer Wildcard, but I'm reserving judgement on her til I hold the model, since many are saying it doesn't photograph well and is much better in "person." Gorim though looks thinner than any dwarf should be. Arms are fine, legs are okay, head is okay, torso not so much.
Well I like both sculpts, sure the dwarf seems slightly out of scale compared to the others but it is still a great looking mini so I am fine with it! I would actually preferred if the rest of the team had looked more like him, probably a little too late for that now though..
I'll answer the Mantic neutrality stuff later. it's after midnight here, and my brain's no longer working well enough for a fully engaging, intelligent and charming reply. I might just come across like a dick instead..
I'm not so sure we need some sort of investigation of his claims - let's take him at his word and go from there, yeah?
I was being semi-sarcastic about myself actually - and I wasn't planning on having a go at Squiggy. But it was indeed after midnight and I wasn't in the brain-state to reply to his well-written points, which I felt deserved more than "yeah ok" in reply. Bloody hell! Not everything I post is an argument!
At work on lunch right now, so still unable to reply properly.
In all honesty, I don't understand why they bothered posting these resin tests the way they have been photographed. The extreem contrast washes out all the details and makes them look worse then they are.
It looks like the details have been faithfully reproduced (if only from the overall contours), but compare and contrast the green and the test. That's not really the material, it comes down to some bad photography.
The test shot makes it look like they carved the figure out of butter...
This is how I have been seeing Kickstarter preview sculpts go:
Company: "Here is a preview, it is not complete!"
Fans: "Model has problems, the problems are X, Y, and Z."
Mass agreement ensues
Company: "Trust us it looks better in person, also, it is not complete, you will like the final product."
Months laters, Final product is NO DIFFERENT from the preview unfinished sculpt. That was the final sculpt.
88 does look good, but these washed out white photos of white resin does no one any good. Even taking a final print model and putting a black wash on it to show details is better. Right now it only appears as if Wildcard is the only model potentially going right in the trash. Everything else is either passable or great. Compared to other KS, that is a pretty good ratio IMHO.
A shame that the KS Wildcard will be restic, not metal. I always found metal figures trivial to make small pose adjustments with. Metal bends, after all...
scipio.au wrote: A shame that the KS Wildcard will be restic, not metal. I always found metal figures trivial to make small pose adjustments with. Metal bends, after all...
Restic is super easy to repose and doesn't "tear" like pewter does (one thing I hated about going from lead to pewter back in the day; lead-free alloys would lose their integrity FAST)
Amazing. Barely six week from raising funding to shipping the product.
Who knew you could design and produce a miniature game this fast!!!
Time for CMON et al to stop slacking
And if you read between the lines, they suffered a lot of delays and such - all the Dreadballs were originally supposed to come prepacked and shrinkwrapped from China (hence the reason why they couldn't sign the rulebooks included in the box) but they got everything as separate components and had to manually repack everything. But not a single public complaint, and regular updates on the statuses of everything. This is how you run a Kickstarter. And starting tomorrow, they're doing the "12 days of Mantic", showing off a new sculpt each day alternating between Dreadball and the Kings of War Kickstarter.
And if you read between the lines, they suffered a lot of delays and such - all the Dreadballs were originally supposed to come prepacked and shrinkwrapped from China (hence the reason why they couldn't sign the rulebooks included in the box) but they got everything as separate components and had to manually repack everything. But not a single public complaint, and regular updates on the statuses of everything.
Imagine that, keeping your backers informed. What a concept. Someone should run a kickstarter on a way to bottle that philosophy and get other companies to drink it down.
Can't wait to get this and put it on the tabletop!
BTW, is this the first KS to actually be close to its promised/guessed/intended delivery time?
The first I've been involved in,
but then again the basic componants box, rulebook, basic teams had already been ordered and were in production when the KS went live (although from Quirkworthy Mantic were promised stuff sooner, and pre-packed)
^ Probably. A few UK retailers already have them on shelves, much to the anger and #firstworldproblems rage of certain KS backers.
I'm so glad Dakka hasn't joined in on that.
Oh and btw, this early delivery for KS backers is being done in the face of Mantic being let down by multiple different suppliers.
Their main supplier promised that all of the Dreadball boxes would be delivered assembled and shrinkwrapped.
What Mantic actually got delivered from China was a pile of un-assembled components and they've had to work insane overtime and turn their offices into packing space to get each box hand-packed, doing the work that their supplier couldn't be bothered to do, despite being paid for it in advance.
Mantic *always* plans for disasters to happen and are not afraid of simply knuckling down and working extremely long hours as a reaction to things going wrong instead of just posting "we had a problem, there will be 3-4 month delay, not our fault, deal with it" as some other Kickstarters have done, I think that's what keeps them ahead of other companies in terms of meeting their commitments. Earlier this year they had a boatload of minis sink off the coast of China, but it didn't affect their release schedule, pre-orders still shipped on time.
So many other companies running Kickstarters would have simply said "bugger it, it'll have to ship Jan/Feb" in response to that rather than going out of their way to hit the shipping deadline (Kickstarter calls it an estimate, but we all know full well that it effectively means "deadline" if you want to be taken seriously in future). Instead we have Striker boxes being shipped out to everyone starting next Monday, some of you on here will be getting your packages in a few days time.
Huh. Thanks for the info SS, that makes me respect Mantic even more! Makes the excuses of every other company running a kickstarter right now seem a little... Lame.
From what I've seen, Dakka appears on the whole to have the attitude that things WILL happen to mess things up, and companies appear to be judged more on what they do when those screw-ups happen. If a company like Mantic does their level best to make things right and communicates about the work they're doing, very few people here will crucify them (not that it doesn't happen). I don't know if that's because Dakka is an older online community with more, ahem, veteran gamers who have perspective or just a happy coincidence.
I was disappointed when DFG slipped, and yes, DreadBall is shipping later than I'd have liked. At the end of the day, it's just not that a big a deal that my toy soldiers/space football players will be here two weeks from now instead of next week.
All in all, I believe Mantic deserve a pat on the back for keeping to what they promised in the Kickstarter by delivering DB in December, regardless of their issues.
Then a cheer for including some MVP's a month or so earlier than expected and getting those January pledges moved forward.
Oh did I mention the regular updates they put out?
Sadly Steve Jackson's Ogre and Sedition Wars are not so cusomer friendly....
So many other companies running Kickstarters would have simply said "bugger it, it'll have to ship Jan/Feb" in response to that rather than going out of their way to hit the shipping deadline (Kickstarter calls it an estimate, but we all know full well that it effectively means "deadline" if you want to be taken seriously in future). Instead we have Striker boxes being shipped out to everyone starting next Monday, some of you on here will be getting your packages in a few days time.
After the brief back and forth I had a few days ago in the Sedition Wars thread when Mike flagged that the May stuff is going to be late as well, and with the arrival of some boxed sets from Mongoose, I started working out how well my Kickstarters have worked out so far. The answer is not too bloody well, actually. I started turning it into a couple of blog posts instead of writing it here, and what I already knew (That Mantic have been the ones to actually deliver AND update regularly) really stands out even more. What surprised me was how badly pretty much all of my other projects (excepting Mongoose) have slipped, and how much more forgiving I am towards those with decent communication (Reaper, Dreamforge, RBG) over those with poor communication (CMON/SW/etc).
So yeah, kudos to Mantic. And you know what? When Mantic start the Warpath KS, I'll be there with bells on. Others? Not so much.
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Krinsath wrote: From what I've seen, Dakka appears on the whole to have the attitude that things WILL happen to mess things up, and companies appear to be judged more on what they do when those screw-ups happen.
It just gets a little tiring when they ALL have screw-ups and delays.
^ That's an interesting couple of blog posts there. I didn't realise that almost none of these wargaming Kickstarters are hitting their shipping dates on time, and that out of those that do have problems, the majority don't even bother with regular updates. Makes me kinda glad I haven't gone too nuts with buying into all of them. Going to keep ignoring them next year and just save up for the Warpath KS (either April or June next year).
I'm really glad Mantic are the only one on your list that you're happy with, their customer service and good attitude is one of the things I've always tried to highlight, but it hasn't been until the kickstarter craze took off that people have seen just how dedicated they actually are at coping with high demand and tons of pressure. The reaction to things going wrong is definitely really important, as you say, it only takes 5 minutes to post a KS update to let people know what's been going on in the warehouse that week or what the latest word from the printers is.
As a counter to my earlier comment, this is probably an example of one of the good things about having a businessman (Ronnie) running the company rather than an artist. Stuff gets done, and it gets done on schedule.
Oh, and they've moved out of their old offices that got completely flooded a couple of Decembers ago (there weren't any order delays as a result of that back then either :p) , so the flooding across the UK at the moment won't slow things down either.
I hear Impact! are pretty good with Kickstarter too, they've built up a good customer base with about 5 different kickstarters that haven't ran into any problems.
A "run-away-success" can be all sorts of problematic in itself. It's not always a smooth process to "scale" up to something that far exceeded your initial expectations.
Wow, I gotta say, I had no interest in the coaches before, and while I still don't have much use for them as a whole, that is one of the best rat-men I have ever seen! If that aesthetic was carried over to the Vermin team as a whole I would be buying extras of them.
Wow, I gotta say, I had no interest in the coaches before, and while I still don't have much use for them as a whole, that is one of the best rat-men I have ever seen! If that aesthetic was carried over to the Vermin team as a whole I would be buying extras of them.
On the topic of KickStarter slippage, I do think some of it is the scale of success. Dreamforge, for example, is certainly a victim of this. November was very close to the end of the KickStarter to be creating all the new tooling (a week-long Chinese holiday didn't help either). In the end. the factory couldn't cope with the sheer demand and complexity like they had thought is what it sounded like. I thought November was very ambitious for anything they didn't have halfway in production yet, and honestly a month's slippage on the first shipment with no expected further delays isn't horribly unreasonable. It's not the one week delay of Mantic, but it's not as bad as others I've heard.
Had Mantic not had most of the things lined up already, I can easily see them falling into the same situation. However as a product they had had plans to launch for a while previous, factory screw-ups are less crippling to the delivery timeline.
As scipio said, you can be a lot more forgiving when the people running it deal with you straight rather than saying nothing.
That coach is amazing! I think I just rolled an exploding six in my underwear.
The only explanation I can think of is that there is a finite amount of awesome available to the Veermyn range, which must be conserved. Therefore, Mantic have saved it all up, denying all previous Veermyn models any awesomeness so that they could release it all in one creative blast via Coach Splinter.
Look to Scarlet Squig's post near the top of this page, he mentions Strikers are supposed to start shipping tomorrow. Meaning we should have them before Christmas!
They have already started. Some retailers have basic games and the starter teams, but the backers should be getting their full first wave in the shipment.
CptJake wrote: You may get it faster, but minus all the kickstarter extras.
What extras?
All those multi-hex minis and 2nd/3rd season stuff won't ship for a while (Q2 2013 is what the Kickstarter says). And, seeing how this goes down, I wouldn't be surprised if retailers get these earlier as well.
All it comes down would be T-Shirts and the one or two Kickstarter exclusive sculpts like that Penny Arcade guy.
The first shipment to backers doesn't include anything that isn't already in the stores, except that signed art print for Striker. Yihaa.
Zweischneid, stop sounding like "But I want it now!!! " *spits dummy*
I think the 'extras' he was referring to are probably the mass of extra stuff that you are getting at an extremely bargain price. Unfortunately I didn't back the KS, but I wish I had - would much rather get the stuff cheaper (and more of it) if it meant waiting a week or two.
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