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Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 15:55:45


Post by: adamsouza


40k has got to be the most popular scifi miniatures game ever, and it's space version of it's fantasy. Star Wars and Star Trek are bigger sci fi franchises and their miniatures games have never been as popular as 40K.

"cool" is better than original.

 scarletsquig wrote:


Take another look at the KoW Kickstarter. About 70 models given away at the $175 level, with large infantry, cavalry and a chariot.

I'm fairly confident that over 100 miniatures total will end up in Striker by the end of this, even if the KS doesn't beat Sedition Wars (CMoN has better marketing, and the game is niche, so its unlikely.. might beat Relic Knights, though).


We're up to 50'ish models now. Unless they give us 4 new teams I can't see how they would get the numbers that high, and remember they've charged us for all 4 teams so far.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 16:15:54


Post by: Souleater


 Black Nexus wrote:

Sedition Wars is a one-off board game that'll get expanded into a skirmish game at same point..


Not quite. Studio McVey have stated that they plan at least one expansion for BfA, and that this game is just the tip of the SW-verse iceberg.

I'm sounding out people in the area to see if anybody is interested in the DB. Judging by Mantic's previous kS therte could be a lot of value by the end of this one.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 21:40:18


Post by: adamsouza


Can someone coly and paste the article from http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/i-can-talk-about-dreadball-now.html to here, so I can read it.

It's supposed to be a comparison between BreadBall and Bloodbowl


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 21:48:30


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Copied for you to read. There are meant to be pictures but my browser can't see them, sorry

Wednesday, 29 August 2012I can talk about Dreadball now!!!


Huzzah! I can finally open my trap about Mantic's upcoming game Dreadball. You see up until yesterday I was operating under the assumption I was still gagged by an NDA that I'd signed when I agreed to play test the game for Jake Thornton... soooo... I sought a bit of clarity. Turns out they're now perfectly OK with me spilling the proverbial beans on this thing. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about follow this link to their Kickstarter campaign for their game, or just watch this video:



So as you can see it's a new sports game from Mantic... and... that brings it inevitable comparisons with the grand daddy of fantasy type board game sports, Games Workshops very own Blood Bowl. Now I'm pretty sure I've mentioned in the past that I'm a pretty big Blood Bowl fan, even if it didn't make it into the 10 games that defined me as a gamer article, it nevertheless has had a large impact on me as a gamer. I loved it as a game, and my father had me playing the game from the very first edition, although it was the second edition with the polystyrene board that really got me hooked. So any game wishing to muscle in on this turf is going to have to front up to this behemoth.



The elephant in the room for Mantic. They'll be hoping Dreadball isn't a white elephant

For me personally though I began to get a bit sick of Blood Bowl while I was at university, sacrilege I know. Thing is I was running multiple leagues at the time, I was running and participating in a three league structure at my local Games Workshop as an employee, I was running two leagues at my university gaming club AND there was a local games club I attended that had their own league. Yep I suffered Blood Bowl burnout, so while I still have fond memories of Blood Bowl and it certainly deserves its place in the gaming hall of fame, I'm over it. This is far from the case for many gamers though who still play the game religiously or who revere it as a product like no other. We're talking about a sidelined Games Workshop 'specialist game' that is still so popular that small independent companies can earn a crust by producing Blood Bowl teams and miniatures to support what is still a thriving community. So not only is it an elephant in the room for Mantic, it's a much loved, well worn friendly elephant that has a horde of fans ready to leap to it's defense.

I'm pretty certain that when Ronnie Renton and Jake Thornton sat down to discuss Mantic doing this game they themselves will have spoken about the elephant in the room that is Jervis Johnsons seminal masterpiece. They can't not have, it'd be stupid if they haven't and as neither are stupid I'll assume they did. Indeed Jake has written about the inevitable comparisons between his magnum opus and arguably the most complete game, Games Workshop have ever produced right here on his own Blog. It was bound to happen, and given the prevailing wind within the hobby that all Mantic seem to do is riff on well worn Games Workshop tropes it was entirely predictable. If really, really unfair on the game and Mantic. So in many respects for Mantic it would have been easier to just leave well alone, but hey they've chosen to take it on, as the allure of a thriving unsupported marketplace to tap was just too good a business opportunity to resist. However, I'm not going to chastise others for instantly leaping to the default "oh Mantic are doing Blood Bowl" assumption, because if I'm honest when I was first presented with the product that's exactly where my mind went to as well.

So why is that? Well because Blood Bowl is quite frankly synonymous with fantasy board sports games thingies, it's indelibly etched onto the psyche of pretty much all wargamers and board gamers I know. True it isn't universally loved, nothing is, but you know what? It gets bloody close to being universally loved. There aren't many of my gaming buddies or friends who don't have a huge soft spot for the game of fantasy football. Realistically Blood Bowl stands alone as well, sure there's Impact Miniatures Elf Ball and Street Brawl etc, but honestly they're not all that huge, and I've not come across many people who actually play Impacts games. So it's had the limelight pretty much all to itself for such a long time, which has allowed it to establish the arena as its own and no serious contenders have come along... before now, because make no mistake I think Dreadball actually is a serious contender. Why? Because it has already garnered far more coverage and discussion amongst gamers than other similarly themed fictional / fantasy sports board games.


It's been really nice seeing the finished mini's and what the board will look like.

But nevertheless that elephant will remain, and I'm sure it'll remain for a long time even after Dreadball has launched, because Blood Bowl is the yardstick. So when did I first see Dreadball? Well it was a fair few months back now at Mantics headquarters in Nottingham. After a brief drama with our nations hideously decrepit rail network and 3 cancelled trains to Nottingham and a delayed and re-rooted train that then broke down. Seriously!!! How hard can it be to travel between our nations second city and another of its major urban areas? Luckily I bumped into two fellow geeks...instantly recognisable because hey it takes one to know one... and together we teamed up to procure a taxis from Derby to Nottingham. Where there's a will there's a way... and normally it is expensive. So after we arrived at Mantic, and after we had signed the NDA's we all finally got to see Dreadball. And there it was, that elephant standing in the room.

As Jake took us through the basics of the game and discussed what it was and how it worked, Blood Bowl instantly flickered across my mind. Even as the mechanics were discussed and demonstrated, Blood Bowl continued to linger, even though the two were clearly quite different beasts. When Jake asked for questions and comments I knew somebody would mention Blood Bowl so I wouldn't have to. You see I've been brought up properly and have been well versed in the ways of social etiquette and I felt that being the first to raise Blood Bowl in such an environment was a social faux pas I didn't wish to perpetrate. However, the first comment was "so it's a bit like Blood Bowl then!" I actually wrote it down at the time, because I knew eventually I'd write this article, and I wanted to capture that momentous occasion just right. Jake handled it with good humour and I'm sure he was expecting it, his answer on that day was polite and well rehearsed and revolved around pointing out the two games were only similar insofar as they were fictional sports games that used dice and that was about it.

Jake is right too, I've played an awful lot of Dreadball, and I'd bet that I've probably play tested it way more than most. Mantic even allowed me to take the rules and other stuff away with me and set up play testing sessions with my friends to run through various things in the game with great detail. I've even been responsible for the ridiculously complex unique sequence of numbers that will be printed on the games playing cards and have picked over the games league rules with a fine tooth comb and put them to the test. I'm comfortable in standing up and saying Dreadball is not a Blood Bowl clone, it is not Blood Bowl in space and it isn't even trying to be. It shares more with Amiga and Atari ST classic Speedball than it does Blood Bowl and I'm really excited to see how gamers take to it. Because if people do take to it then there is a good chance it could become a huge draw at clubs across the globe.


I think aesthetically Mantic have got the game just about right

So what is it like? Well I'm not going to talk about specific rules, because that's for others to talk about. But for my money Jake Thornton has produced a very cool little fictional sports board game, that manages to distinguish itself quite well from Blood Bowl. Whereas Blood Bowl is a slow methodical game, Dreadball is fast , furious and fluid. It's a game that evolves as you play it, at no point does the game 'reset' during play and for that reason you have to constantly think about attack and defence regardless of whether you have the ball or not. Something that isn't the same with Blood Bowl as that game was all about making drives and plays. Whereas Blood Bowl became bloated and at times overly fussy with rules Dreadball is streamlined and quite neat. True its stripped down nature won't be for everyone, but within the confines of the very robust and simplified ruleset I have personally found immense scope for tactical play and individual play styles.


A lot of my friends love the look of the Forge Father team

Having played with all 4 of the initial races extensively (Orx, Humans, Veer-myn and Forge Fathers) I can also confirm that each team actually have their own personality from the off. Something that wasn't initially obvious in one off games of Blood Bowl. I'm also of the opinion that despite the teams in Dreadball being very distinct right from the get go I have no worries over initial balance. While Blood Bowl only really got going on that aspect during a league system. Dreadball will also offer that sort of team progression with its own league system that will come right out of the box, and all the emotional attachment that these sorts of systems bring to star players. There is no question in my mind that the two games are significantly different systemically and in terms of how they play on the board. Dreadball should, and will stand on its own merits, of that I have no doubt, as long as Mantic do a good job with supporting the product post launch.


Whereas I really like the look of the Veer-myn.. sadly they're my least favourite team on the pitch. Bugger!




So that's it, that's my thoughts so far on Dreadball and Mantic's new baby. I hope it is judged on what it is and not on what people think it is, as I really do think Jake and Mantic deserve that much at least. I'd urge people to go and have a look at the Kickstarter campaign and read what the game is really about. I was asked by a fellow play tester what I would give Dreadball out of 10 if I was to review it now. That's a difficult one to answer to be honest with you because I haven't seen the quality of the miniatures or card components yet. However, I can at least give you an indication on the one thing I have done to death and that's gameplay, on that score it'd be getting an 8.5 out of 10 right now and I'm pretty sure the cats would considering approving it. Why? Because actually Dreadball does share a little bit more in common with the aforementioned elephant, simply put it's a really good fun game that's easy to pick up and play and enjoy with your mates. At the end of the day isn't that what we all want from our hobby? Peace out!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 21:50:54


Post by: Pacific


++EDIT++ I get the reverse-ninja on OrlandotheTechnicoloured's as I got the pictures in?

Here you go mate, well written write-up actually in his usual amusing if slightly wordy manner:


I can talk about Dreadball now!!!


Huzzah! I can finally open my trap about Mantic's upcoming game Dreadball. You see up until yesterday I was operating under the assumption I was still gagged by an NDA that I'd signed when I agreed to play test the game for Jake Thornton... soooo... I sought a bit of clarity. Turns out they're now perfectly OK with me spilling the proverbial beans on this thing. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about follow this link to their Kickstarter campaign for their game, or just watch this video:

So as you can see it's a new sports game from Mantic... and... that brings it inevitable comparisons with the grand daddy of fantasy type board game sports, Games Workshops very own Blood Bowl. Now I'm pretty sure I've mentioned in the past that I'm a pretty big Blood Bowl fan, even if it didn't make it into the 10 games that defined me as a gamer article, it nevertheless has had a large impact on me as a gamer. I loved it as a game, and my father had me playing the game from the very first edition, although it was the second edition with the polystyrene board that really got me hooked. So any game wishing to muscle in on this turf is going to have to front up to this behemoth.



For me personally though I began to get a bit sick of Blood Bowl while I was at university, sacrilege I know. Thing is I was running multiple leagues at the time, I was running and participating in a three league structure at my local Games Workshop as an employee, I was running two leagues at my university gaming club AND there was a local games club I attended that had their own league. Yep I suffered Blood Bowl burnout, so while I still have fond memories of Blood Bowl and it certainly deserves its place in the gaming hall of fame, I'm over it. This is far from the case for many gamers though who still play the game religiously or who revere it as a product like no other. We're talking about a sidelined Games Workshop 'specialist game' that is still so popular that small independent companies can earn a crust by producing Blood Bowl teams and miniatures to support what is still a thriving community. So not only is it an elephant in the room for Mantic, it's a much loved, well worn friendly elephant that has a horde of fans ready to leap to it's defense.



I'm pretty certain that when Ronnie Renton and Jake Thornton sat down to discuss Mantic doing this game they themselves will have spoken about the elephant in the room that is Jervis Johnsons seminal masterpiece. They can't not have, it'd be stupid if they haven't and as neither are stupid I'll assume they did. Indeed Jake has written about the inevitable comparisons between his magnum opus and arguably the most complete game, Games Workshop have ever produced right here on his own Blog. It was bound to happen, and given the prevailing wind within the hobby that all Mantic seem to do is riff on well worn Games Workshop tropes it was entirely predictable. If really, really unfair on the game and Mantic. So in many respects for Mantic it would have been easier to just leave well alone, but hey they've chosen to take it on, as the allure of a thriving unsupported marketplace to tap was just too good a business opportunity to resist. However, I'm not going to chastise others for instantly leaping to the default "oh Mantic are doing Blood Bowl" assumption, because if I'm honest when I was first presented with the product that's exactly where my mind went to as well.

So why is that? Well because Blood Bowl is quite frankly synonymous with fantasy board sports games thingies, it's indelibly etched onto the psyche of pretty much all wargamers and board gamers I know. True it isn't universally loved, nothing is, but you know what? It gets bloody close to being universally loved. There aren't many of my gaming buddies or friends who don't have a huge soft spot for the game of fantasy football. Realistically Blood Bowl stands alone as well, sure there's Impact Miniatures Elf Ball and Street Brawl etc, but honestly they're not all that huge, and I've not come across many people who actually play Impacts games. So it's had the limelight pretty much all to itself for such a long time, which has allowed it to establish the arena as its own and no serious contenders have come along... before now, because make no mistake I think Dreadball actually is a serious contender. Why? Because it has already garnered far more coverage and discussion amongst gamers than other similarly themed fictional / fantasy sports board games.



But nevertheless that elephant will remain, and I'm sure it'll remain for a long time even after Dreadball has launched, because Blood Bowl is the yardstick. So when did I first see Dreadball? Well it was a fair few months back now at Mantics headquarters in Nottingham. After a brief drama with our nations hideously decrepit rail network and 3 cancelled trains to Nottingham and a delayed and re-rooted train that then broke down. Seriously!!! How hard can it be to travel between our nations second city and another of its major urban areas? Luckily I bumped into two fellow geeks...instantly recognisable because hey it takes one to know one... and together we teamed up to procure a taxis from Derby to Nottingham. Where there's a will there's a way... and normally it is expensive. So after we arrived at Mantic, and after we had signed the NDA's we all finally got to see Dreadball. And there it was, that elephant standing in the room.



As Jake took us through the basics of the game and discussed what it was and how it worked, Blood Bowl instantly flickered across my mind. Even as the mechanics were discussed and demonstrated, Blood Bowl continued to linger, even though the two were clearly quite different beasts. When Jake asked for questions and comments I knew somebody would mention Blood Bowl so I wouldn't have to. You see I've been brought up properly and have been well versed in the ways of social etiquette and I felt that being the first to raise Blood Bowl in such an environment was a social faux pas I didn't wish to perpetrate. However, the first comment was "so it's a bit like Blood Bowl then!" I actually wrote it down at the time, because I knew eventually I'd write this article, and I wanted to capture that momentous occasion just right. Jake handled it with good humour and I'm sure he was expecting it, his answer on that day was polite and well rehearsed and revolved around pointing out the two games were only similar insofar as they were fictional sports games that used dice and that was about it.

Jake is right too, I've played an awful lot of Dreadball, and I'd bet that I've probably play tested it way more than most. Mantic even allowed me to take the rules and other stuff away with me and set up play testing sessions with my friends to run through various things in the game with great detail. I've even been responsible for the ridiculously complex unique sequence of numbers that will be printed on the games playing cards and have picked over the games league rules with a fine tooth comb and put them to the test. I'm comfortable in standing up and saying Dreadball is not a Blood Bowl clone, it is not Blood Bowl in space and it isn't even trying to be. It shares more with Amiga and Atari ST classic Speedball than it does Blood Bowl and I'm really excited to see how gamers take to it. Because if people do take to it then there is a good chance it could become a huge draw at clubs across the globe.



So what is it like? Well I'm not going to talk about specific rules, because that's for others to talk about. But for my money Jake Thornton has produced a very cool little fictional sports board game, that manages to distinguish itself quite well from Blood Bowl. Whereas Blood Bowl is a slow methodical game, Dreadball is fast , furious and fluid. It's a game that evolves as you play it, at no point does the game 'reset' during play and for that reason you have to constantly think about attack and defence regardless of whether you have the ball or not. Something that isn't the same with Blood Bowl as that game was all about making drives and plays. Whereas Blood Bowl became bloated and at times overly fussy with rules Dreadball is streamlined and quite neat. True its stripped down nature won't be for everyone, but within the confines of the very robust and simplified ruleset I have personally found immense scope for tactical play and individual play styles.



Having played with all 4 of the initial races extensively (Orx, Humans, Veer-myn and Forge Fathers) I can also confirm that each team actually have their own personality from the off. Something that wasn't initially obvious in one off games of Blood Bowl. I'm also of the opinion that despite the teams in Dreadball being very distinct right from the get go I have no worries over initial balance. While Blood Bowl only really got going on that aspect during a league system. Dreadball will also offer that sort of team progression with its own league system that will come right out of the box, and all the emotional attachment that these sorts of systems bring to star players. There is no question in my mind that the two games are significantly different systemically and in terms of how they play on the board. Dreadball should, and will stand on its own merits, of that I have no doubt, as long as Mantic do a good job with supporting the product post launch.



So that's it, that's my thoughts so far on Dreadball and Mantic's new baby. I hope it is judged on what it is and not on what people think it is, as I really do think Jake and Mantic deserve that much at least. I'd urge people to go and have a look at the Kickstarter campaign and read what the game is really about. I was asked by a fellow play tester what I would give Dreadball out of 10 if I was to review it now. That's a difficult one to answer to be honest with you because I haven't seen the quality of the miniatures or card components yet. However, I can at least give you an indication on the one thing I have done to death and that's gameplay, on that score it'd be getting an 8.5 out of 10 right now and I'm pretty sure the cats would considering approving it. Why? Because actually Dreadball does share a little bit more in common with the aforementioned elephant, simply put it's a really good fun game that's easy to pick up and play and enjoy with your mates. At the end of the day isn't that what we all want from our hobby? Peace out!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/01 22:36:59


Post by: adamsouza


Thank you for taking the time to port it over.

It was an interesting read. My only criticism of it is that he probably could have posted that even with the NDA, as he didn't post anything really detailed about the game itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anyone know the size of the Hexes ?

I was wondering how awesome Heroscape tiles would be at making a Dreadball Board


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 01:21:03


Post by: adhuin


 adamsouza wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to port it over.
It was an interesting read. My only criticism of it is that he probably could have posted that even with the NDA, as he didn't post anything really detailed about the game itself.


I wouldn't personally risk a the goodwill and playtest privileges, without clear ok from mini-company. You don't have to be legally wrong to lose them.

On personal note: This was a good day.
Tried to convince my playgroup to purchase extra teams from my striker-deal.
Instead I ended up upgrading to Cheerleader (2xStriker), with potential for more.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 08:20:06


Post by: scarletsquig


 adamsouza wrote:
Does anyone know the size of the Hexes ?

I was wondering how awesome Heroscape tiles would be at making a Dreadball Board


25mm. Heroscape tiles should work fine as long as they make a tile type that is suitable.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 09:28:47


Post by: Azazelx


Current stretch goal is a little in it's implementation:


The Hex bases provide your figures with more stability on the board and are essential for accurately determining a models facing – after all, a model can’t catch a ball if you’ve accidently left him facing the wrong way (believe me, I know!)
Not only will we be able to produce the sprue of Hex Bases, but we’ll also be able to include a sprue free at Striker! We’ll also make it so you can pick up packs as individual add-ons.
---
We will tool a sprue of 22 Clear Hard Plastic 25mm Hex Bases for DreadBall and include one free at Striker! We'll also have packs available to purchase as add-ons.


So the next stretch goal is both "essential" and they're providing less than half the number that it would take to use in the "Striker" set? Now I've actually bought a set of 100 round bases from them before, and they were pretty cheap/reasonably priced, which just makes it seem even more odd that they're not giving enough to cover all of the figures in Striker.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 09:40:53


Post by: Zweischneid


 scipio.au wrote:


So the next stretch goal is both "essential" and they're providing less than half the number that it would take to use in the "Striker" set? Now I've actually bought a set of 100 round bases from them before, and they were pretty cheap/reasonably priced, which just makes it seem even more odd that they're not giving enough to cover all of the figures in Striker.


Well, presumably, they want everyone in on Striker to then up their pledge by the missing extra hex bases that are available as add ons, since they already have "some" included.

Or perhaps they throw in more in future stretch goals. Still many days to go after all.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 09:50:23


Post by: scarletsquig


Yeah, that was an extremely poor bit of wording on that update there - should have pitched them as a non-essential premium upgrade to the game rather than saying "essential", because they really, really aren't, you can simply put a dot of paint on the models base to indicate the front facing if you want, and the models will stand up just fine without them. They're not essential by any measure of the word, they're just a snazzy extra like the plastic counters or pitch... by putting on the marketing speak too loudly, they've accidentally gone and screwed things up by stating that "you can't play the game without these bases, and you need to pay extra to get them".

Alternatively, they could be an upgrade to the basic game and team sets, all of Mantic's other kits include bases, and a 25mm base sprue was made specifically for just 2 plastic kits (Orc Ax and GreatAx).. DreadBall has 4 different plastic kits and several characters already, along with a premium price point, so it really should be doable.

"No bases" always comes up as one of the major complaints about Mantic's board games, alongside the low quality of the cardboard, thin boxes, and black and white rules (all things which DreadBall, as a premium game is fixing!), so I'd have thought that this would be one thing they'd be looking to address properly rather than offering to sell the bases separately.

I think Mantic low-balled the stretch goal here, it would have been better to have a $45-50k stretch for the things, to properly outright pay for the tooling costs and get them made as a universal addition to all sets (or, at least all sets sold through the kickstarter) rather than doing a small $15k stretch goal for them which probably won't even fund their tooling costs, never mind the production.


The comments on the KS page aren't helping either, trying to explain the economics of plastic tooling to an audience that lacks knowledge of, or interest in, the topic is not going to go anywhere. When a backer says "why are we only getting enough bases for half the models?" the question is rhetorical, they don't want a lecture on plastic tooling economics, they're saying "give us enough bases for all the models please" as politely as they can.

Ideally they need a nice quick stretch goal of "+2 hex base sprues for striker and jack" thrown in at this point (with another added much later if/when Striker passes the 66 mini mark)... just giving people half the bases that they want wasn't smart planning.. it's all or nothing with those!

Or, they could use extra hex base sprues as a means of making other, larger stretch goals more appealing... e.g. if something like "+$50k for a free female corp team" comes along, they could throw in a hex base sprue as well to make it more appealing (or as a $25k-subgoal to keep things rolling). Hopefully we'll see them hint at extra free hex sprues later on down the road...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 10:16:41


Post by: NAVARRO


I'm getting into BB over here and DB does look like speedball ( played that game to death on my amiga) But what really turns me off its the most important thing IMO in all these games... the miniatures.

They look nice... but only 3 poses? Not cool. I mean you are having more and more minis for each team stretch goal but they are always the same.

That acrylic board is amazing.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 10:18:35


Post by: scarletsquig


^ Not only 3 poses.

Corporation and Marauder teams have 5 poses currently, the $60k stretch goal added 2 new sculpts to each team.

Forgefathers and Veer-myn will have a few swappable push-fit heads or arms depending on the the model type, so there will be some basic variety there as well.

The idea is basic zero-assembly-required, (literally, not even any use of clippers or push-fitting) for the minis in the core game, and some very slight assembly (with the bonus variety which that brings) for the other add-on teams.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 10:21:15


Post by: NAVARRO


 scarletsquig wrote:
^ Not only 3 poses.

Corporation and Marauders have 5 poses currently.

Forgefathers and veer-myn will have a few swappable push-fit heads or arms depending on the the model type, so there will be some basic variety there as well.


Multipart? Oh thats nice to hear, didnt know that... Now I need to find another flaw in this so that I dont invest 150


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 12:24:50


Post by: Azazelx


 scarletsquig wrote:
Yeah, that was an extremely poor bit of wording on that update there - should have pitched them as a non-essential premium upgrade to the game rather than saying "essential", because they really, really aren't, you can simply put a dot of paint on the models base to indicate the front facing if you want, and the models will stand up just fine without them. They're not essential by any measure of the word, they're just a snazzy extra like the plastic counters or pitch... by putting on the marketing speak too loudly, they've accidentally gone and screwed things up by stating that "you can't play the game without these bases, and you need to pay extra to get them".
....
"No bases" always comes up as one of the major complaints about Mantic's board games, alongside the low quality of the cardboard, thin boxes, and black and white rules (all things which DreadBall, as a premium game is fixing!), so I'd have thought that this would be one thing they'd be looking to address properly rather than offering to sell the bases separately.


You're right on both counts here. Well, kinda. The figures should come with bases of some kind given the price point of the game and indeed, even the separate teams. Round ones would have been fine, and then, as you said, put a dot or mark on the base, and away you go. (As I've done in the past for many other games).



Alternatively, they could be an upgrade to the basic game and team sets, all of Mantic's other kits include bases, and a 25mm base sprue was made specifically for just 2 plastic kits (Orc Ax and GreatAx).. DreadBall has 4 different plastic kits and several characters already, along with a premium price point, so it really should be doable.


Absolutely right. I mean, the fact is that the bases cost next to nothing if we were to buy extras from their website, so it makes little sense that they're not throwing them in. I'm not butthurt here (Potentially) needing to buy a few $2 sprues, it's more of a "WTF?" situation



I think Mantic low-balled the stretch goal here, it would have been better to have a $45-50k stretch for the things, to properly outright pay for the tooling costs and get them made as a universal addition to all sets (or, at least all sets sold through the kickstarter) rather than doing a small $15k stretch goal for them which probably won't even fund their tooling costs, never mind the production.


Again, I'm going to partially disagree with you here. $15k stretch goal gets you a $2 sprue of 24 bases. Maybe it'll be a $3 sprue? BFG! (not Big Friendly Giant). Not exactly an exciting stretch goal, if you see my meaning. It's an $80 game with $25 add-on teams, and despite the fact that we've gone over that a few times, they really do need to include that sort of thing in the box. Otherwise why even bother to tool them? Do they expect to sell thousands of sprues of them via the website? Again -

Much of the rest of your post is good, though I don't see people getting excited about adding some more sprues of bases along with the female team or whatever. IMO they should just suck it up, Mea Culpa, and change it so that every Kickstarter figure gets a base. While you or I might not be scared of adding an extra $6 for 2 more sprues of bases, even for me it degrades a small amount of consumer goodwill, and who knows - it might cost them a lot more $$ in pledges being pulled by others if they don't...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 scarletsquig wrote:

The idea is basic zero-assembly-required, (literally, not even any use of clippers or push-fitting) for the minis in the core game, and some very slight assembly (with the bonus variety which that brings) for the other add-on teams.


Hopefully the Corp minis' heads come off easily. Far better things to top them with than those not-Space Marine helmets out there...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 14:50:03


Post by: Black Nexus


They're not essential by any measure of the word, they're just a snazzy extra like the plastic counters or pitch... by putting on the marketing speak too loudly, they've accidentally gone and screwed things up by stating that "you can't play the game without these bases, and you need to pay extra to get them".


only if you take it out of context, i mean the emphasis is on accurately determining the facing, doesn't say you can't play without them >.<

Anyway, looks like it's been edited to "really useful".. gee, cuz I want something useful.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 15:12:13


Post by: scarletsquig


^ Was just going by what I read on the KS comments page and trying to figure out why people were seeing them as a requirement when they aren't.

The devil is in the details, even subtle word changes can vastly change people's opinion of something - it's just a perception thing, telling someone that they want it is a lot different from telling them that they need it.. the former is encouraging, the latter can be seen as a negative.

Multipart? Oh thats nice to hear, didnt know that... Now I need to find another flaw in this so that I dont invest 150

Let me know when you do and I'll try my best to knock it down.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 16:01:39


Post by: lord_blackfang


Can someone enlighten me as to the point of the acrylic playing field?

The default board looks boring as heck, but slapping a featureless black slab of plastic on it is not my idea of a fix.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 16:05:32


Post by: timetowaste85


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Can someone enlighten me as to the point of the acrylic playing field?

The default board looks boring as heck, but slapping a featureless black slab of plastic on it is not my idea of a fix.


I didn't realize the acrylic board went on top, but it makes sense, in hindsight. I guess the point is to have the field raised up, while the bench, penalty box and other stuff sits lower to differentiate between field and out of bounds areas. Doesn't seem needed at all, but can make it look a bit snazzier. I only got the $25 field myself-a raised area that I can paint myself and make it look however I want. Lava world, here I come!!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/02 20:55:35


Post by: ddogwood


I'm tempted by the etched MDF board... the possibility of painting it to look like anything is very tempting. It would be even cooler if it was etched on both sides, though, because then it could be a 2-in-1 dealie.

The acrylic board sounds cool, but I can't convince myself that it's worth that much money. I'd be to worried about it getting scratched or broken if I tried to transport it. Much easier to prime, paint & varnish an MDF pitch.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 00:15:21


Post by: adamsouza


excerpts taken from http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/846814/anything-more-on-the-rules-before-i-pledge

Has the most in depth answers about game play I've seen to date. One of the developers is doing an on going Q&A over on BoardgameGeek about DreadBall.

Spoiler:


Hey guys,

James here - I'm a relative newcomer to the world of games design, but I worked on DreadBall as supporting developer alongside Jake Thornton, so I know a thing or two about the game! The guys at the Mantic bunker have asked me to get over here to see if there's anything I can answer.

So what do you want to know? I'm not going to post up each and every rule, and I don't think I can sum it all up in a single post, but I'll happily respond to any questions you've got.

From what's been said so far:

Rob: You're right about the time it takes - most games have ended up between 45 and 75 minutes, with the occasional bloodbath going on a bit longer! See, the game works on a "differential scoring" system - it starts at 0, and moves towards the scoring team whenever a Strike happens. So, for instance, if the score is one point in my favour, and you score three, the the score will be two points in your favour. Get it? After 14 turns, if the score is 0, Sudden Death starts, and things get interesting. The gates slam shut (so no Reserves can enter play), and the first team to score a point - or the last team standing - is declared the winner!

Jay: We've gone all-out to make this an interesting game in its own right - hopefully the rules and the background will stand out as fresh even in places where they might seem familiar. A lot of playtesters have commented on the speed and flow of the game (the word "hyperkinetic" kept coming up) and the depth of the tactics. Being a good player takes strategic thought and forward thinking, but luck plays a part (as ever!) and risky strategies can pay off massively. I've not seen a dull game yet, and I've played it a lot!


Hope that's a bit of a help - keep the questions coming!

-----

The cards are multi-use - they each contain four different pieces of information:

- They've got an in-game effect
- They've got a list of numbers that's used for random player selection
- They generate a random number for Ref movement
- They've got a "Cheer" rating, used in Fan Checks.

In-game effects are the main part of each card. These are Actions or Events. Actions cards can be used to supplement your five action tokens for a turn, letting your team do that little bit more, or pull off a complex play even when the dice don't behave themselves. Event cards are generally remains-in-play effects, lasting until another Event is played or drawn. They change the game in small ways - maybe the ball bounces more randomly, maybe one of the players was partying too much last night, or maybe the Ref is feeling particularly short-sighted.

You can spend an action in-game to buy a card and keep it in your hand, ready to be played later, meaning you can lose an action in the short term to gain something useful in the long term. Most teams also start with a number of cards in-hand.

Sometimes, cards are drawn randomly - for example, when the Ref has to move, when a random player needs to be selected, or when a Fan Check is made due to a player scoring a high number of points or landing a real bone-crunching hit. When this happens, and the random card is an Event, it comes into play immediately - this can cause sudden, subtle changes in the flow of the game at key moments.


You also asked about ball movement. The ball is carried by players, but it can be lost fairly easily, so it's best to keep a ball carrier away from enemy players. The ball can be thrown, but the throw distance isn't massive, so tactical movement is encouraged. The game features a core "facing" mechanic (i.e. the way your models are facing matters!), and this comes into play with passing - it's a heck of a lot easier to pass to a player who's looking in the right direction...

Of course, if the ball's dropped, it starts rolling around the pitch. Deviation / random direction of travel is determined with a dice roll - the hex system is very handy for this - and loose balls travel a number of hexes equal to a dice roll. This can take it quite a long way, and if it hits a wall, it bounces off.

Another key mechanic that comes up is the "free action" system. When a player does particularly well at certain skill tests, he gets to take a free action - for example, when catching, a test that scores two or more successes lets the catching player immediately take a Run or Throw action. If the catching player is a Striker, he can do both. These free actions can link up as much as you like, forming a potentially unbroken chain of actions. However, if you lose the ball - either unintentionally (by falling over!) or intentionally (by throwing and missing) - your turn is over. It's not uncommon to see a skilled player take advantage of these free actions and, by taking several risks and pushing his luck, score a high-point Strike in the first turn of the game. Scoring is a lot more common than it is in some other sports games, with most games involving a tug-of-war between the two teams as Strikes are scored.

Speaking of Strikes - did I mention that a Strike doesn't stop play? Nothing does, in fact. Once the game starts, it's one long drive until the winner is declared. Whenever a Strike is successfully made, the scoring player's turn ends, and his opponent's turn starts with the ball being fired table-football-style from one end of the centre line.


Phew! I think I've answered that one. Hope it's some food for thought, and it's whet your appetite for some futuristic sports action!

----

Hi Rob!

Yep - one long drive, 14 "Rushes", seven per side - unless Sudden Death happens, as I mentioned earlier, in which case it can go on a bit longer. And yes, you assumed correctly; your Rush ends when you run out of actions, run out of players (you get a maximum of 2 actions per player per turn under normal circumstances), or you lose the ball. Those are pretty much the only situations under which your turn ends.

Deaths happen in almost every game; however, with the advanced medical technology held by the DGB (The DreadBall Governing Body, a.k.a "Digby"), it's not as much of an inconvenience as you might expect! If a player is killed in the arena, the team's coach has the option of paying a fairly hefty medical bill to have him revived, or recycling his vitals through approved DonorVend sites, making a bit of money back in the process.

As for skills, players gain experience during games by doing the sort of thing the fans love - scoring lots of points, really hurting enemy players, or just being generally useful. When players level up, they can gain a random skill or stat advance from a list depending on their player type. Players advance fairly quickly at the start of a season, but this levels out as they become more grizzled.

Hope that's a decent enough answer!

Right, I'm off to the pub. (It's thirsty work, this games design lark.) Keep the questions coming in, folks - I'll get back to you as soon as I can!

James

---

The cards are all in one common deck - nothing team-specific as yet. However, that's a very cool idea, and we might have a look at trying to bring it in at a later date. You never know!

Player movement comes in two types - Running (standard movement) and Sprinting (faster, but less flexible). As I mentioned before, facings are used in the game. When a player takes a Run action, he can move a number of hexes up to his Move rating, changing facing as he likes for no cost. A Sprint action doubles your Move rating, but you can only move into the hex directly in front of you; if you want to turn, each facing change costs 1 point of movement. This means that a Sprinting player can go flat-out quite a long way, but can't do much fancy footwork - also, it's harder to pick up a ball if you're Sprinting.

Speaking of facings, each player has a "threat zone". This is the hex directly in front of it, and the hexes either side of that one that are adjacent to the player. (That might sound confusing, but there are lovely shiny diagrams in the rulebook that make more sense!) If you're moving in an opponent's threat zone, you'll get tackled and end up on the floor unless you can succeed at an Evade check; the more Evade checks you take in a single action, the harder they are to succeed at.

As for Seasons, there's nothing fixed for different ones yet a "Season" is just another name for "League", or "Campaign", or "series of linked games". It just sounds extra sportsy

---

Sorry to hear you don't like the scoring system. However, you can easily keep track of how many Strikes each player in your team scores, and how many points each is worth - I did this during playtesting, when we were trying to work out how often Strikes were happening, which teams were the best at scoring lots of points, whether people were scoring multiple low-cost Strikes or saving up for big ones, et cetera. If people are interested, I might have a chat with the guys in the bunker and see if we can't get some kind of "League stat tracker" up on the site somewhere. (Or added to a KS bundle, maybe?)

As for your other questions, I can answer 1 and 2 in the same paragraph, I reckon!

The game's a lot less footbally than some other games out there. As such, scoring's a bit more abstract, with three different places to score. Those coloured zones (red or white, by default) are the Strike Zones, with the solid red or white hex as the Strike Hex (the target). In the game world, when a player carrying the ball puts foot into a Strike Zone, the Strike Target becomes valid, and if he can throw the ball on-target, he scores! In more advanced arenas, this could mean a holographic target shimmers into existence, or a teleportal activates; in smaller leagues, Refs might have to watch footwork carefully and disallow Strikes made by players not standing in a Strike zone. In game terms, this means that once you're in the Strike Zone, you can make a Strike attempt by throwing the ball. The Strike Zone furthest from the enemy start zone is worth three points, while the other two are worth one each. Strikes made while standing in the furthest hex from the Strike Hex are worth an additional point.

Hope that makes some sense!

The other areas of note on the board are the yellow hexes (the Gates, where reserves can come on from the subs bench whenever there's an opportunity) and the chequered hex (where the Ref starts).

As for Speedball 2 effects on the ball... not yet. "Yet" being the very operative word. We've got plans for expansions, which (you never know) might even come a bit sooner if stretch goals get hit. (To be honest, I don't know much more than you guys - I should mention that before people get too excited!)

You're very welcome, though. Thanks for taking the time to think up some questions, and I hope the answers I've given have been up to scratch!

----

During playtesting, we actually used square bases - it just seemed more sensible! We were holding out hope for hex bases to be included in the game, because naturally they'd make the game easier to play, but I think (and I hope it's okay for me to say this) they proved to be a bit out of budget. That said, that's what's this Kickstarter's all about - so you never know your luck, we might just get our dream after all!

Either way, though, we generally found that there weren't any facing issues in testing - the game moves so quickly that you can generally remember which way everyone's facing, even if the board gets knocked. In most cases at least! (My legendary clumsiness notwithstanding...)

---

Thanks for the compliments, Tristan - we made a huge effort to make the game original and interesting, so I'm really happy that it comes across as different from games that have gone before!

The Corporation team is the most generic all-rounder, although it does fare slightly better when going for passing / Striking plays that it tries brute force - especially when playing against the heavier teams! The starting composition is three Strikers, two Guards and three Jacks. The best tactics I've seen involving Corporation teams feature lots of free actions, chaining up passes between Strikers to move the ball past the defence and into a position to make a three or four point Strike.

Marauders, on the other hand, are just plain brutal! Orx are the hardest hitters in the game. They've got a statline that's all about dishing out violence, and as Guards they get bonuses to dice tests for Slams and Armour Checks. Goblins, on the other hand, are fairly good at dodging, and average at picking up the ball, but not great at hitting opposing players! It's a team of two halves (staring line up is 3 Orc Guards and 5 Goblin Jacks) and you need to play it as such. Success generally means taking opposing Strikers (and other threatening players) out of play as early and as frequently as possible, giving the Goblins a chance to score Strikes where they can.

Forgefathers might seem a bit like a short, bearded Corporation team at first - they're the only other team (so far!) to have all three playing positions. However, the way they use them is quite different! Forgefather teams aren't very fast, but they make up for that by being characteristically fierce and uncompromising! Their Jacks can hit almost as hard as an Orc, and their Guards are terrifying brutes who simply refuse to be knocked down. The presence of Strikers on the team makes a passing play viable, which some playtesters were surprised (and delighted!) by. Starting line-up is three Guards, two Strikers and three Jacks. The team adapts well to different tactics, but is particularly good at making its way up the arena, bowling enemy players aside, and letting a Striker make a high-scoring Strike.

Veermyn are, in my mind, the oddball team. They're the one that's got amazing potential, but is most challenging for a new player to use. They've also got the strangest line-up. See, Veermyn don't make natural DreadBall players - so they have to compensate! As a result, every player who isn't massive enough to be a Guard is trained as a Striker. This, when added to their natural speed and agility, makes the team a frightening prospect in the hands of a skilled coach, even if their lack of immediate flexibility makes them a challenge straight off the bat. They can dash around defenders like they're not there, they can Sprint from one end of the arena to the other in the space of a turn, and it's near impossible to knock them down and make sure they stay down. Unfortunately, their achilles heel is their low level of ball skill - you can't guarantee they'll always pick it up, let alone be able to score! The starting lineup is 2 Guards and 6 Strikers. Tactically, it's best to aim for multiple low-point Strikes - you're after quality, not quantity! Also, use spare Strikers to help your Guards when it comes to Slamming enemy players - as you've only got two players who can dish out damage, you want to make sure they've got the best chance possible of doing something!


You also asked about profiles - yes, each race has its own profile, meaning they all feel different, with their own strengths and weaknesses. Each player is ranked in Movement (how far they can move, funnily enough!), Strength (how good they are at hitting people), Speed (reflexes, agility, etc.), Skill (with the ball), and Armour (i.e. how much of it they're wearing!). Armour is dependent on player class rather than race, with Strikers getting the least protection and Guards getting the most.

To really understand the profile, though, you'll want to know about how dice are used in the game... ooh, that's an exciting one. And simply because of that, I'm going to leave you all hanging while I have a late breakfast!
---

Lee - as the game's set in the Warpath universe, which already has a following and a fanbase, we'd have been crazy not to have started out with teams that are recognisable from that system. However, that game focuses on races that have large military forces - with DreadBall we've got a chance to look at things that might otherwise fall between the cracks! Also, as you've noticed, not all Corporation teams have to be the same. Watch this space (and the Kickstarter page!) for more info!

---

Right! Where were we? Oh, yes - dice. Lovely little things, aren't they?

Understandably, dice play a massive part in DreadBall. All dice in the game are six sided, although they do come in a few different colours... more on that later. The main way they're used (aside from the odd bit of randomisation, such as when a ball gets dropped) is for stat-based tests, which you take whenever you need to do something useful with one of your players.

The core mechanic for a dice test is as follows (with the example of a floored Corporation Jack taking a Stand Up action).

- Create your dice pool. This is normally 3 dice, but certain things - the presence of enemy players breathing down your neck, the distance you're trying to throw the ball, whether your player has had special training in the type of thing he's trying to do - can modify that number. In our example, there are no modifiers.
- Check the number you need to score for a die to be counted as a success. This is determined by the stat that you're testing against. For example, a Stand Up test is based on your Speed stat. A Corporation Jack has Speed 4+, so each dice that scores a 4+ is a success.
- Check your target number of successes. For a Stand Up test, this is 1.
- Roll the dice! Each successful die is counted. Each die that scores a 6 counts as a success and lets you immediately roll another die and add it to the check - this is cumulative, and keeps happening as long as you roll sixes.
- If you equal or beat the target number, you succeed! In most cases, if you double the target number, you get a bonus. For example, with a Stand Up check, one success lets you stand up, but two or more successes let you stand up and immediately take a free action (with the exception that you can't Sprint).

That's the basic mechanic for dice. Then you have opposed tests, where you're looking to beat the number of successes your opponent rolls, and cumulative tests, in which the target number increases each time you take the test during an action.

This bleeds into your next question, about how you hit people, pick up the ball, etc. All of these are Actions that you can take. You get 5 Action tokens per turn that you can spend on your team; each one lets you take an action:
You hit people with a Slam action, which might lead to an armour check and subsequent injury, putting the target out of play for 1-3 Rushes, or maybe even killing him!
You throw the ball with a Throw action - if you're throwing to a team mate, their starting dice pool to Catch the ball is equal to the number of successes you rolled on the throw. (If they double their Catch, they get a free Run or Throw action - Strikers get to Run as part of a Throw action, so they can get some serious free action chains going!
You pick up the ball with a Pick Up free action, which you get whenever you move into a hex containing the ball (as long as you're not a Guard). If you succeed, you pick it up; if you double, you get a free Run or Throw action, just like when you catch the ball.


There you go!

I hope this is starting to build a picture in people's minds of what sort of game this is. It's fast-paced, with one core mechanic that you can learn really easily. There's very little need to look things up in the rulebook, even by the end of your first game - the repetition of the mechanic throughout means you should pick everything up nice and quickly. We went all-out on making the rules intuitive and clear, and from what we saw during playtesting, it more or less worked! Even after one or two games, people were starting to discuss deep tactics and really think about upping their gameplay. Is it obvious that I'm pretty proud of this game?

----

As it stands, as far as I'm aware, there's no plan to release Veermyn Jacks - it's a characteristic of the team that they don't get them, and something that makes them stand out. In fact, the option of having Jacks would massively overpower the team, as it would greatly add to their flexibility. Similarly, don't expect to see any Orx who aren't guards, or Goblins who aren't Jacks - with one notable, moustache-twirling exception - for the same reason.

----

The player positions are massively integral to the game, so shame on me for not going into detail sooner!

Strikers and Guards are opposite ends of the DreadBall spectrum. Strikers get bonus dice for tests involving handling the ball and being agile, but they have weak armour and don't have the ability to make attack actions (or reactions). They also get the bonus ability that whenever they take a Throw action, they get a free Run action (normally, a Throw action lets you make a one-hex move before throwing).

Guards are just the opposite - they have bonus dice on armour checks and Slams (your main offensive action), and they get a free Run action as part of a Slam (again, a Slam normally involves only one hex of movement). However, as Guard armour doesn't feature a DreadBall Glove (the attachment that lets players handle the ball without getting their arm ripped off!), they don't have the ability to pick up or handle the ball in any way.

Jacks - short for "Jack of all trades" - are the middle ground. They have access to all actions (including Throws, so yes, they can score too!) but they don't get any particular bonuses. Ask any Jack, and he'll tell you that he's the most useful person in the arena, and also the most underrated! Jacks are cherished for their flexibility and the fact that they can step up to any task - with a bit of luck, there's nothing they can't do!

There's also a secret fourth player position - the Keeper! Starting teams don't get Keepers, as it's an experienced-based upgrade for a Guard. Keepers get even heavier armour (a Keeper's armour stat is 3+ rather than 4+, and he still gets a bonus dice as he's a Guard) and a DreadBall glove - meaning he has a limited ability to handle the ball! He can't make a normal Throw action, but he can Punt it by placing it anywhere in the arena and scattering it twice. This means Keepers make great defensive players - they can batter incoming ball carriers, grab the ball, then fling it up the pitch. Okay, a Punt ends your rush (because you lost the ball), but it's better than having it sitting right next to one of your Strike zones!

----

There are 14 skills (called abilities in DB) in the initial set. This might not sound like a lot, but remember that each of the 3 player roles (Striker, Jack, Guard - explained earlier by James) can already do different things, so the abilities build on three varying starting points. In addition, because each player type starts from a different place and does something different in play, the extra abilities vary in utility from role to role (and race to race).

Some abilities are limited by player role. In DreadBall nothing is limited by race, always by role. So, if a human Striker can do something then a Veer-myn can try his paw at the same thing. Of course, as they have different racial stats then their chances of success will probably be different too. Having said that, not all races have access to all roles, so in that way there is a racial limitation. I haven't checked to see whether that means that a specific ability is unavailable to a given team.

Coaching staff upgrades are slated for Season 2.

The equivalent to Team Re-rolls in DB is Coaching Dice, which have a broadly similar effect. However, in DB you can earn them during the match as well as spending those you start with.

A player turn in DB is called a Rush. Rushes don't end when you fail unless you drop the ball, so you can go in, fluff something completely and then still carry on, as long as you didn't drop the ball. Of course, you can end your own turn voluntarily if you choose and you could have so few models left standing that you ran out of people to act with before you ran out of actions, but these are both very rare events and are included mainly for completeness. In most Rushes a Coach will get to use all of his team actions.

Well the Orc Guards are pretty big fellows! Much bigger than them and you're into multi-hex creatures as the models won't fit, which we have discussed but which have no rules yet. Multi-hex models always cause a real headache in design terms as they break so many of the existing rules, so whilst they may well come along in a future expansion they won't be available on release.

No, we don't have injuries. Although it can be characterful, it is something that many people don't like in BB (though others think it's great). DreadBall was intended to be slightly more streamlined than BB and this was one of the details I deliberately left out - no point in replicating something that people moan about, is there? Of course, you can get dead, which does affect you quite severely in future games

---

I think you've hit the nail on the head there! A lot of games follow similar themes. Controlling areas on a map. Rolling dice to determine how far you move. Managing a hand of cards. Exploring dungeons and killing zombies. They're just tropes that are inherent to the medium, and the same thing extends beyond the realm of board games.

"Fantasy* Ball ports Board Game" is just another trope that's becoming more popular. Obviously, Blood Bowl has always been one of the more well-known ones, but that doesn't make every other sports game a Blood Bowl clone any more than the classic PC game Half Life was a Doom clone. That was something that a lot of video game journalists said at the time, drawing similarities because the two games featured a lone protagonist killing alien monsters from a first-person perspective, with weapons that increased in power as the game went on. Of course, it turned out that Half Life was just a stand-out game that marked the widening of a genre, to the point where several games have since become known as Half Life clones.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with drawing superficial comparisons; DB and BB both feature a board on which two teams of players try to move a ball from A to B to score points. Dice are used to determine the outcome of actions in-game. But look beyond that, and you'll see that there aren't many similarities at all! Hopefully that's become fairly apparent from what you guys have seen in this thread and on the kickstarter page.

All of this is a rambly way of saying that, of course, there are going to be people who say that DreadBall looks like Blood Bowl. They'll say they already play BB, so why should they switch to anything else? That argument's no more sensible than saying "Well, I've seen Die Hard, so what's the point in watching any other action movies?"

Of course I'm biased, and of course I'm interested in this game doing well, but I trust my own sense of humility enough to know that when I talk about this game, it's not empty encouragement I'm spouting. I honestly do love this game, and I'm proud to be a part of the creative force behind it! I'd recommend any naysayers to at least give it a chance before being too negative.

---

There are various fouls in the game, and your opponent has to call them. However, just because the Coach has spotted them doesn't mean the ref has.

There are actually two referees in the arena - one is a floating "Eye in the Sky" that hovers over the pitch and can potentially see anything. This is not a model.

The Referee you get a model for is the on-pitch ref. She moves about the pitch, controlled by both players in turn.

When a foul is called by a Coach, you roll to see whether the perpetrator has been spotted by the ref(s) and if so how long they are sent off for. You always roll one dice for the "Eye", but you only roll a dice for the on-pitch referee if she is close enough to the perp when he makes the foul.

So, moving the ref is tactical. You can use them to get in your opponent's way by blocking a hex, to get out of the way of your own players as they commit fouls, or move them up to try and spot likely fouls by your opponent.

Moving a ref is a free action in addition to your Team Actions.

-----






Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 00:19:52


Post by: frozenwastes


The only thing keeping a friend of mine from going Striker on this is a video showing the play of an entire rush and maybe the opponent's following rush.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 06:51:20


Post by: Azazelx


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Can someone enlighten me as to the point of the acrylic playing field?

The default board looks boring as heck, but slapping a featureless black slab of plastic on it is not my idea of a fix.


I really don't see why they wouldn't have gone for a Speedball-esque brushed-steel look on the basic board. Would have looked great!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 07:45:31


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I am loving the fluff on the Dreadball website. Scarlet Squig, does the rule book have a lot of the same kind of in-universe flavor text and background?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 08:57:48


Post by: scarletsquig


^ It is loaded with flavour text.

On a par with the KoW rulebook, only extremely tongue-in-cheek.

Each MVP gets a full page of background, each team gets 2 pages, including stuff like explanations. A lot of the stuff on the website comes straight out of the rulebook, whereas some of it (like the cyber mustache advert) is new.

There's some cool little boxes of flavour text to explain various things... I especially liked the part on the Veer-myn page that rationalised why veer-myn and other alien teams are allowed to play despite being technically at war with the corporation.. it broadens up the universe by showing that not all members of all races are "at war" all the time.

They've done a good job of fitting the teams into the canon and making it clear that it is definitely not a 40k-style universe... e.g. some forgefathers hate the corp, others trade with them, a few live amongst them.

It's not a clear case of "kill the alien on sight", although on the other hand, I do wish they'd stop with this "You're never more than a few feet away from a Veer-Myn anywhere in the Universe" nonsense, and just keep them as an an actually shadowy and mysterious race that lurks underground/ on spaceships that almost no-one has seen (outside of dreadball matches, of course!). I think I'd be less than amused and wanting to club the things if there was one sitting on my toilet and another raiding my fridge right now.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 11:04:18


Post by: Construct


scarletsquig wrote:I think Mantic low-balled the stretch goal here, it would have been better to have a $45-50k stretch for the things, to properly outright pay for the tooling costs and get them made as a universal addition to all sets (or, at least all sets sold through the kickstarter) rather than doing a small $15k stretch goal for them which probably won't even fund their tooling costs, never mind the production.
This is what $100k of tooling looks like. 22 bases do not require $45-$50k. What are they machining the mould from, congealed unicorn tears?

The comments on the KS page aren't helping either, trying to explain the economics of plastic tooling to an audience that lacks knowledge of, or interest in, the topic is not going to go anywhere. When a backer says "why are we only getting enough bases for half the models?" the question is rhetorical, they don't want a lecture on plastic tooling economics, they're saying "give us enough bases for all the models please" as politely as they can.
The economics of injection moulding are that the costs are in the tooling. (As I know you're aware, so why the act? You're a terrific promoter; it saddens me to see you...cheapen yourself for the sake of spin.) Mantic has no intention of only producing half the bases. You know it. I know it. Santa Claus knows it. It's a faaaaaake streeeeeeeetch gooooooaaaaaaaal. That's not a bad thing per se - it does keep momentum up - but let's not kid ourselves here.

scipio.au wrote:I really don't see why they wouldn't have gone for a Speedball-esque brushed-steel look on the basic board. Would have looked great!
I would imagine they'll be plenty of fan-made boards to print and laminate by the time the game ships, Speedball included.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 12:17:10


Post by: Black Nexus


Nearly through the 140. can't wait because i want to get Number 88


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 13:06:41


Post by: Gerinako


I think once we breach the 140 we get the ability to add Hex bases to our pledge for a few $ a pop.

Myself I'm wanting to put all models on a hex base to suit the board & I imagine a fair few others are the same.

Should help boost us to the Number 88 target when that happens.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 13:14:00


Post by: English Assassin


That is almost certainly true, though I am faintly disappointed, particularly given that the cost to Mantic lies in the bases' tooling, not their production, that the stretch goal isn't "a free plastic hex base of every miniature". I shan't really mind paying a few quid extra, but frankly they ought to be included as a default.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 13:37:11


Post by: frozenwastes


Given how much their previous board games get knocked in reviews for figures falling over, bases for the miniatures should have been a no brainer from the beginning.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 14:25:31


Post by: Gerinako


140k Breached

Two Sets of Hex Sprues instead of 1 in striker now.

Means I only have to put in an extra $8 to my pledge


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 14:26:04


Post by: timetowaste85


Just got my update: they included two packs of bases in "Striker," instead of just one. Means 44 bases added into striker.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 14:58:21


Post by: English Assassin


Woot! I feel like we've been listened to!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 15:13:43


Post by: timetowaste85


 English Assassin wrote:
Woot! I feel like we've been listened to!


Yeah, I hear Mantic is pretty good at that. Lol. Crap...I REALLY want it to be December right now....after reaching at least $250,000 and getting 8 MVPs total added to striker, at least 2 more purchasable teams with 2 models from each team free in the Striker set, a further set of hex bases...I feel like that's a good start.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 15:26:30


Post by: scarletsquig


Oh, this has a *lot* further to go yet.

They've gone with a longer-running KS this time, the KoW one was only a quick 28-day job.

This one has 27 days left, it's only just getting started and there's already $232 of stuff at the $150 pledge level. (35% discount!). That'll be $262 and 40% discount after the next 3 MVPs are unlocked, and then things start to get really interesting...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 15:38:52


Post by: timetowaste85


 scarletsquig wrote:
Oh, this has a *lot* further to go yet.

They've gone with a longer-running KS this time, the KoW one was only a quick 28-day job.

This one has 27 days left, it's only just getting started and there's already $232 of stuff at the $150 pledge level. (35% discount!). That'll be $262 and 40% discount after the next 3 MVPs are unlocked, and then things start to get really interesting...


Do you have inside knowledge? Spill!! Pledges can only go up if we know the next set of goodies after the MVPs!!

Rhetorical question-I KNOW you have inside knowledge Squiggy.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 15:56:07


Post by: Gerinako


This is the first KS I've been involved in.

Just looked on Kicktraq to look at other successful projects following a similar pattern; and I'm going to agree with scarletsquig.

There becomes a point when the value for money against what you pledge becomes too great a value to ignore and you get an upwards trend of pledges towards the final day with a final mad rush on the last day.

I don't see any reason why this shouldn't follow a similar pattern.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 16:08:56


Post by: scarletsquig


Amusingly, I don't actually have any inside knowledge other than what appears in the book. I'm fairly certain I know what the remaining MVP is (other than Buzzcut who has already been shown on the website), but that's the full extent of my super-sekrits - after that I'll be in the same position as everyone else... pretty much every aspect of the rules has been posted online by Jake Thornton already too.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 16:17:16


Post by: timetowaste85


I bet if we all buy tickets to the UK we can beat Squiggy with socks full of oranges until he spills who the other MVP will be.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 16:38:51


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 scarletsquig wrote:
Amusingly, I don't actually have any inside knowledge other than what appears in the book. I'm fairly certain I know what the remaining MVP is (other than Buzzcut who has already been shown on the website), but that's the full extent of my super-sekrits - after that I'll be in the same position as everyone else... pretty much every aspect of the rules has been posted online by Jake Thornton already too.


Is it Rico van Dien? I've seen his high school playing footage, and he's amazing. Would you like to know more?

I'm glad to hear about the background, Scarlet. It reminds me a lot of old Super Nintendo sports games. Just one more question: how is the sport played? I don't mean game mechanics or dice rolls and stats, but more like a description of what a spectator would be watching. "The Fullback attempts to dribble into the red zone, for the immediate loading and unloading of bases, where he can pass to the strikers or seekers, who seek to shoot a basket pass the bludgers for maximum blerns"..? Right now, I have no idea what the teams are supposed to be doing, and the game comes across as "Paul Verhoeven presents Calvinball."


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 16:45:30


Post by: scarletsquig


Basically, the aim is to get the ball into one of the 3 goals to score points. Once that happens, the ball immediately re-enters play by being shot out into the centre of the pitch.

Strikers are scoring specialists.
Guards attempt to beat up the strikers and stop them from scoring.
Jacks can do a bit of both.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 22:15:45


Post by: adamsouza


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Is it Rico van Dien? I've seen his high school playing footage, and he's amazing. Would you like to know more?


Nah, Female MVP, Dizzy Gonabytit


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DreadBall Development Blog is worthing checking out if you want an insight into the game mechanics.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/03 23:59:09


Post by: AlexHolker


I do not find the Dreadball website reassuring. The only missing MVP is the lone woman, and the only time they even use the word "she" is when referring to a male elf.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 00:49:47


Post by: rosafari


Putting together some Grim Cargo Corp figures has just reminded me how much I hate Mantic's base 'strategy'. I bet 90%+ of mantic's customers want to put their minis on a standard 20/5mm base so why not just give the models a peg/slotta-tab/flat-ish feet? Especially as for the few people that do want a custom base any of the above are easier to work with than removing a 15mm circle!! Plus it means you get boring limited poses and the models look stranded in the middle of a 25mm base - the corp are particularly bad for this, but it's potentially worse for Dreadball as these are meant to be athletes playing a dynamic sport!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 11:21:42


Post by: Zweischneid


Looks like Mantic is looking for fan-input for a (potential) robo-team via Twitter (and Kickstarter obviously).

https://twitter.com/manticgames/status/242941358585823232


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 12:57:22


Post by: Black Nexus


I do not find the Dreadball website reassuring. The only missing MVP is the lone woman,


Dunno about that, the black out image on the Striker! image still hasn't been revealed, so I think there could be at least one more that's not been revealed. and we know Wildcard is not in the rulebook yet (though is getting rules)

i find it funny everyone says 'do something different" and they ask for input and everyone comes back with "make it look like like real steel/terminator etc"

Surprised no-one said Geth...

anyway, hopefully we'll get number 88 soon.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 13:12:54


Post by: scarletsquig


I really like the design/ artwork of the board as it is, grey steel effect would have been boring... glowing TRON hexes are much more sci-fi.

Plus, there's all kinds of cool ideas people now have for making custom under-lit boards to match the style of the board art with LEDs and all sorts.

Someone posted in the KS comments about doing a clear layer of plastic and then gluing opaque hexes on top, with a lightbox underneath to create an illuminated board.

Others are thinking of a "pumpkin-carving" approach where the playing surface is completely flat, and the lines of the pitch are determined by a combination of cutting the underside and putting the light underneath... this is one thing that could be done if the acrylic pitch were even a little bit translucent (smokey grey).. just turn it upside down, add lighting underneath and voila! Underglow pitch, where the hex lines are picked out by light.

You could even modify the MDF board into doing this, if you get a strong enough light underneath, some of the glow will go through the material.

Even something like screen printing black hexes on to a clear plastic surface could do the trick and look great.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 13:34:26


Post by: Bolognesus


 scarletsquig wrote:
You could even modify the MDF board into doing this, if you get a strong enough light underneath, some of the glow will go through the material.

I'd watch out with that - MDF has a nasty tendency of catching on fire when subjected to the heat that would likely generate (depending on light source, of course) as well. Even if it doesn't do that, wood warps when subjected to significantly more heat on one side than on the other...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 13:54:49


Post by: Black Nexus


I'd watch out with that - MDF has a nasty tendency of catching on fire when subjected to the heat that would likely generate (depending on light source, of course) as well. Even if it doesn't do that, wood warps when subjected to significantly more heat on one side than on the other...


Yeah, and no-one wants their wood warped.

Sorry...

grey steel effect would have been boring... glowing TRON hexes are much more sci-fi.


Agreed, besides, just spray an MDF board grey and you're away. This isn't exactly hard to replicate:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/jan08/speedball2o.jpg



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 14:05:43


Post by: adamsouza


I'm operating under the assumption that the lines on the arcylic board are etched in.


While etching on acrylic gaming supplies is usually pretty shallow, it's often more than enough to hold a decent amount paint, making any etched details very noticeable. I'm routing for the red and blue areas to be translucent, but opaque black could be given a "glow" paint job like people often do on necron vehicles/terrain.

About MDF warping and burning with heat, the simple solution is to use LEDs. The generate ample light and negligible heat. I have a Blood bowl arena with 2 strings of battery operated red led Christmas lights giving it an awesome under glow.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 14:32:43


Post by: ironicsilence


I'm sure I'll likely jump into this by the end but for now whats holding me off is the teams. There just isnt a team that interests me enough to play this game. As it is now I just wouldnt want to play humans, orcs, skaven, or drawfs


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 14:47:09


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


We'll Mantic are calling for ideas on Robots, so they may be on the cards along with a female corporation team

either of them appeal?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 14:52:23


Post by: ironicsilence


The female team would have some appeal...the robots would depend on what the models look like, though sadly I dont have any idea what I'd like them to look like


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 15:36:28


Post by: Pacific


This discussion is beginning to make me think of that sketch from the TV Show 'Little Britain', where the guy goes into a shop and asks for something extremely specific

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KpNBkjltc8


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 15:41:57


Post by: Alpharius


By Sunday September30th I should have recovered from the Sedition Wars Pledge Manager AND the Relic Knights Kickstarter... so I'll probably be in for Striker then.

At that point, this will probably be way too much of a good deal to pass up!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 18:57:58


Post by: scarletsquig


Just going to throw in a pretty good link to a BGG review post about the game:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/9972813#9972813

It has a *lot* of comparisons to bloodbowl there, mostly used a means of showing why the game is totally different in terms of rules via 20 short bullet points.

Might be of interest for people who want a straight-up BB comparison, since I'm not very knowledgeable about BB.

There might be some minor innaccuracy in there, though... the stated 11-max for teams is incorrect, it's 14-max.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 19:07:02


Post by: Cyporiean


This looks nice:



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 19:15:30


Post by: Kirika


This looks cool but dunno if I gonna be in for this one. Bloodbowl did kick ass but I already own it. Still waiting for Mantic to ship me my Undead army.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 20:06:18


Post by: ironicsilence


Female team models look pretty solid


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 20:10:05


Post by: AlexHolker



Alternate head C is the worst of them, but it's the one Mantic and their backers apparently like the most.

To repeat what I said earlier with a cross-post from what I just sent to Mantic:
Human teams should be the "face", to use the wrestling term: teams that Dreadball fans know and root for. A team of faceless mooks is a poor way of doing that. By contrast, any non-human team sponsored by a human Corporation would be a "heel" - the designated bad guy. They might emphasise their underhandedness, their inhumanity or their primitiveness, but there should be a not-so-subtle racism in the way the Corporations portray humanity and the species they exploit.


TLDR: if you're going to use megacorps as the shaping influence of your setting, at least give them credit for knowing how propaganda advertising works.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 20:13:18


Post by: ironicsilence


Humans seem to be the "good" guys in every game. Would be nice to see non human teams being "good" and humans being exploited


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 20:27:27


Post by: Black Nexus


humans are a grey area, if not the bad guys, in warpath. east india trading company I think Alessio said. Rock up, try and do a deal, and if they don't take it, annilihate the crap out of them.

For dreadball as a corporation sponsored event though, it makes sense they're highlighted as the being the good guys. propaganda and all that.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 21:38:30


Post by: Azazelx


 scarletsquig wrote:
I really like the design/ artwork of the board as it is, grey steel effect would have been boring... glowing TRON hexes are much more sci-fi.

Plus, there's all kinds of cool ideas people now have for making custom under-lit boards to match the style of the board art with LEDs and all sorts.

Someone posted in the KS comments about doing a clear layer of plastic and then gluing opaque hexes on top, with a lightbox underneath to create an illuminated board.


I personally find the plain blue-black board to be boring. I also don't intend to spend money, time or effort buying acrylic sheet or the expensive acrylic board and trying to light it up. Thanks for being the arbiter of what is "more sci-fi" though.


Sadly, Mantic are still playing pantomime with their backer emails. "Oh my! Look at this random concept picture we only got just now! What could we do with it?" When people have been talking about the female team from day1


We’ve been playing around with what the next stretch goal could be and when we got this concept from Roberto Cirillo earlier today, we thought what the heck – could it be a female Corporation team?
(picture posted above)
What do you think - should we post these gals up next?

As you can see from the alternate helmets and shoulder pads, this is still an early concept and we’re open to ideas on how to improve the design. We want to incorporate the suit from Wildcard in some way, probably taking off some of the armour. We're also really liking Helmet C.

Please drop us your comments below and let us know what you think!


Why does that piss me off? Because it's an insult to our intelligence.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 21:43:13


Post by: frozenwastes


Or it was a joke that you're misinterpreting as an insult to your intelligence.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 22:12:05


Post by: Rolt


The female team look very nice, personaly I'd prefer them without helmets and short hair but that wouldn't be very practical from a gaming standpoint. Per chance is the guy who designed these the same guy that designed the female troops for sedition wars?, theres a lot subtle similarities between the two (most notably the hip/thigh area).






Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 22:13:48


Post by: scarletsquig


@scipio: Or maybe they actually did just get that concept in this morning, and while they had the idea to do a female team, they didn't pay the artist to concept it until it was clear that the KS would reach that point, an approach which also allows public feedback on the design/sculpting of the models?

Similar to how Mantic has been posting concepts, previews and greens and asking for public feedback on their blog constantly over the course of the last 1-2 years?

Also, about the design of the board, was just expressing an opinion.

I'm definitely going to want to get hold of a female team, it's a team I could really get behind, the concept needs some work but I'm sure they can pull it off.

I quite like helmet C, all the male players have helmets, so I don't see any reason for the females to be any different. Like the idea of less armour, and prefer the non-high-heeled shoes.The curved shoulder pads work best.

And yeah, this is the same guy that did the Sedition Wars concepts, he does pretty much 100% of all the Warpath concepts as well, and has done from the start.

Then Remy takes the concepts and sculpts a 100% carbon copy of them in 3d form.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 22:37:09


Post by: timetowaste85


 scarletsquig wrote:
@scipio: Or maybe they actually did just get that concept in this morning, and while they had the idea to do a female team, they didn't pay the artist to concept it until it was clear that the KS would reach that point, an approach which also allows public feedback on the design/sculpting of the models?

Similar to how Mantic has been posting concepts, previews and greens and asking for public feedback on their blog constantly over the course of the last 1-2 years?

I'm definitely going to want to get hold of a female team, it's a team I could really get behind, the concept needs some work but I'm sure they can pull it off.

I quite like helmet C, all the male players have helmets, so I don't see any reason for the females to be any different. Like the idea of less armour, and prefer the non-high-heeled shoes.The curved shoulder pads work best.

And yeah, this is the same guy that did the Sedition Wars concepts, he does pretty much 100% of all the Warpath concepts as well, and has done from the start.

Then Remy takes the concepts and sculpts a 100% carbon copy of them in 3d form.


You want to get behind a female team? Me too.
Oh, wait. You want to support them...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 22:49:45


Post by: Schmapdi


I like the non-alternate head the best.

Alternate concept C would be hard to paint well. It looks to me like it should either be like black tinted glass, or a clear visor. Both of which would be a nightmare to do well.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/04 22:56:56


Post by: Buzzsaw


Me likey that female concept sketch, me likey a lot. Dangit... I aas hoping to give my wallet a bit of a rest...

Damn you kickstarter!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 00:27:12


Post by: Vain


 AlexHolker wrote:
TLDR: if you're going to use megacorps as the shaping influence of your setting, at least give them credit for knowing how propaganda advertising works.


Personally I would give a megacorp more credit if they knew the advertising benefit of not having their star players hit in the unarmoured face with a high velocity titanium ball.

Well except that Logan guy, but I hear he is very lucky...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 00:32:00


Post by: AlexHolker


 Rolt wrote:
The female team look very nice, personaly I'd prefer them without helmets and short hair but that wouldn't be very practical from a gaming standpoint.

That would also be my preference, but with luck, they'll at least do that for the Strikers. The Marauders do a good job of making the classes instantly recognisable, giving the female Corp Guards, Jacks and Strikers enclosed, open-faced and no helmets respectively would do the same here.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 02:16:04


Post by: Salacious Greed


I like the idea and look of the female team. But I'd like to see a super-up-armored bruiser type that is bigger than the male team, closer to on par with the orx. I also like head B, with the wonder woman type helmet guard framing the face. However, come on, tooling an entirely new sprue, give us unhelmeted heads as an option on the sprue, seriously. I understand that they really wouldn't play that way, but a lot of things aren't modeled, so helmets aren't needed as the models won't really be playing the game. Give us some rollerderby hair-do's. Pig tails, top knots, etc. Hell, even put those sticking out of the helmets, and some helmets with mohawks! And their MVP should be a Diva.

Oh, I also think some optional pieces to model "chainmail" skirts would give them that rollerderby feel. Plus, to make them play differently, you could have their special things be combo moves. So instead of that character continuing to move, another player makes that move. Just a thought to make them different.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 09:28:03


Post by: Black Nexus


there isn't a sprue. when the drawing says alternate head or alternate shoulder pad, they're talking about a different design, not a different component. all of the models are single piece because it's a board game and they're really nice board game pieces that people may well try and convert into wargame miniatures. the last thing they want to do is confuse that with alternate pieces IMO.

Sadly, Mantic are still playing pantomime with their backer emails. "Oh my! Look at this random concept picture we only got just now! What could we do with it?" When people have been talking about the female team from day1


aren't they showing off a drawing of the female team that people want. Isn't that like, a good thing?

I mean, I think this is a change in the plan because otherwise it'd be on the diagram for striker like the locked mvps. and you have to realise that they are talking to several different audienes, a couple of which are new to mantic and are not used to their style of showing stuff off and asking for opinion.

how it's insulting to your intelligence is beyond me, sounds like an over-reaction.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 09:48:07


Post by: GBL


Its gotten ridiculous when people are actively trying to find ways to be insulted by mantic.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 09:57:47


Post by: Vain


 Black Nexus wrote:
aren't they showing off a drawing of the female team that people want. Isn't that like, a good thing?

STUFF

how it's insulting to your intelligence is beyond me, sounds like an over-reaction.


Gotta agree with you there. Rather than an insult to my obviously massive intelligence (I am a gamer after all) I am seeing it more as a "Hey, we got some concept art handed in, let's post it up and see what people feel about it. If they go wild we know we are onto a winner and should put up a new team, if they don't like it we can see what we can do to change it."


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 10:42:54


Post by: Zweischneid


/shrug

Games Workshop is regularly getting A LOT of flack for trying to manipulate and control the flow of "rumours", "news" and "reveals". If it is legitimate to criticize GW for their information and reveal policy, it would also legitimate to criticize Mantic (or anyone else) for theirs.

If we are to adopt a universal policy of "always assume the most benign interpretation possible", we should adopt it equally for all companies being discussed on these discussion forums across the board


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 11:06:33


Post by: Pacific


Oh come on Zweischneid, they aren't even comparable in that sense.

At present Mantic is having (trying) to be more open - it's a general thing for companies trying to muscle in on a market that they have to give more than their competitors, and it's an area GW has taken some big flak for so it makes sense from their own marketing perspectives. They give green previews, concept art, pre-release hints, even beta-playtesting and 'name a unit' kind of stuff. Although to be fair this is common to pretty much every other games company out there in terms of providing some information and building a sense of anticipation about new releases.

Completely in contrast to GW, where the only pics we had of Dark Vengence and the like was some brave Pole at the printers risking life and limb to take a sneaky couple of shots on his camera phone a few days before release (probably )


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 11:21:24


Post by: Zweischneid


Sure they are comparable.

GW is trying to have the news "break" on the White Dwarf or their own website that there is such a thing as a Dark Vengeance Starter Box, say.

Mantic is trying to have the news "break" on Kickstarter currently that there is such a thing as as an all-female DreadBall team, say.


For both, rumours have been around before the "official" reveal. GW simply ignores the earlier leaks. Mantic, however, specifically said they "just got those sketches". That is a fairly implausible story, not impossible, but implausible.

The point I was making however, was less about Mantic or GW, but about the comments made here.

If you are willing to just assume the best, and that Mantic truly just found those sketches in their inbox and haven't really planned their Kickstarter beyond this point (despite another month or so to go),you should also give GW the benefit of the doubt in all their reveals and releases.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 11:57:29


Post by: scarletsquig


"Mantic wants to make a female team" (their stated position at the start of the KS) != "Mantic already has a fully completed set of concept art made" (their stated position currently)

Can we not dredge this thread back into "speculation about Mantic's evil marketing conspiracy supported by zero evidence" again? We've already had 8 pages of that, we don't need 8 more.

There is no secret moonbase, Ronnie does not own a white cat, or an indoor pool full of sharks, or the Federal Reserve of the United States of America.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.

Seriously?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 12:01:45


Post by: Taarnak


It's entirely possible that they just got the sketches. They may have moved them up in the queue, or maybe the concept artist was just now able to fit them into his schedule.

I don't know. And neither do any of you. I don't think that they were suggesting they were taken by surprise by them though.

GW has more than earned the bile that they get. Mantic are certainly able to manipulate, and may be willing. But it's not been shown repeatedly like it has with GW.

Just my thoughts.

~Eric


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 12:22:29


Post by: Kroothawk


Let's not forget that Mantic consists of Ex-GW-staff, so similarities in behavior are to be expected.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 12:32:52


Post by: Black Nexus


Let's not forget that Mantic consists of Ex-GW-staff, so similarities in behavior are to be expected.


the minority are ex-gw so...

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally


it's a poor standard and one most don't want replicated with other companies. killing the standard is preferable to going "well, they do it so it's open season on everyone else"

anyway, looks like we're going to hit Number 88 next. personally can't wait to add some girls to my pledge.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 12:34:21


Post by: RiTides


Yeah, personally it's all a bit too opaque for me... not wanting to be a "hater", but it just drains the enthusiasm I would have for the Kickstarter otherwise.

It's great to have a plan. But if you already have a plan and are kind of cagey about it, it takes away from the Kickstarter experience imo.

All the ones I have backed (Dreamforge, Modest Magic, Brushfire) have been really open and taken customer feedback into serious account in making major alterations to the Kickstarter. Again, they don't have to do that, but at the minimum if they had already set their plan in place, I wouldn't want them to pretend otherwise.

(Disclaimer: Not saying they are. Just saying the general impression I get is not totally positive with how they are dealing with their backers, which I think is legitimate to say since it's, well, my own impression and maybe they should adjust their strategy if they're giving off that feeling to people like myself)


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 12:57:28


Post by: scarletsquig


^ How is this any different to the dreamforge kickstarter?

Here's a list of what has happened so far:

- Mantic hints at female team as being one of the ideas they want to do.
- Kickstarter backers say "great idea, we want this!"
- Mantic sees this and considers moving the female team stretch further ahead in the queue. Mantic gets basic concept art made to prepare, and posts it online for backer feedback, so that the models can match what people want.
- Kickstarter backers are happy.

What part of that process is everyone having such a big problem with? I absolutely do not have any clue as to what the "legitimate" complaint might be here.

Are you annoyed that they are asking for feedback, when they should have "the right ideas" already?

Are you convinced that the concept art for the female team was already made 2 weeks ago, and that Mantic deliberately and maliciously lied when they say that it just arrived in their inbox? Why do you think this?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:02:29


Post by: RiTides


I'm not necessarily trying to compare the two- I just said this was turning me off. But since you asked, most of the stretch goals leading up to 100K were unplanned- people were clamoring for the weapon options to be offered as stand-alone purchases, something he had never planned to do, and he talked to the manufacturer and made it work.

Again, not trying to hate, just trying to give constructive criticism. It would bother me if a Kickstarter I was supporting made it look like they were taking customer feedback, when they actually weren't. I get a bit of that impression here, whether or not it's actually the case, so imo their presentation should change a bit if they want to Not give that impression.

It's a valid impression, as it's my own after all . Doesn't mean it's fact, and I never said it was. Just that saying they're Not giving that impression is clearly not correct, as a number of people have felt the same way.

This is not to say that Mark/Dreamforge/small kickstarters can do no wrong. People get upset when things change, even after taking feedback, too. But I'd rather feel like I was more part of the process, rather than being led along (again: Feeling, not necessarily that this is what's happening, but it's the impression being given to some, myself included).

I mean this as constructive criticism, and honestly don't think it's anything to bristle over! They clearly could tweak their PR approach a bit soas not to turn off a certain subset of folks, and I was trying to articulate that. Won't derail the thread any further by repeating it, just giving some feedback



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:04:28


Post by: Zweischneid


It is not even about having a plan. Sure, Reaper Bones had a plan. Everyone knew they had some big stuff reserved for the endgame. Everyone was excited to see what it would be. When they put out their final stretch-goals (as concept art) for the undead Dragon, Cthulhu, etc.. everyone was ecstatic, as many people would have been by a Mantic "reveal" of a female team.

But Reaper did not go off and say... look, we just found this sketch of Cthulhu in our drawer. What a coincidence!

Simply having (A) a plan and revealing it as the Kickstarter moves along and (B) doing... what has rightly or wrongly been described above as "insulting the intelligence" of the audience... are rather two different things.


Even if Mantic is guiltless in this, after and precisely because they took similar criticism for the "clumsy" wording of their Forge Father MVP stretch-goal, I would have hoped they would try to shoot for a less patronizing tone, even if its just to be on the safe side.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:06:02


Post by: RiTides


Yes, it's just the impression they're giving, that's what I was trying to articulate.

It's totally fine for them to have a female team planned, etc etc etc. But their presentation could improve a bit, imo, and I'd like to think that as an interested observer I have the right to say so


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:06:37


Post by: scarletsquig


Well, they were really good at taking feedback into account on the KoW Kickstarter, the Ogre concept art has changed significantly, taking into account a lot of public feedback.

Mantic has a 3-year track record of being extremely good at this sort of thing, I don't understand why anyone would automatically assume the worst.

@Zwei: You're mis-quoting Mantic when you state that they just "found the artwork in a drawer".. the actual statement is that the concept artwork they commissioned for the female team arrived in the inbox of the person manging the kickstarter.

Mantic hires freelancers, its main sculptor lives in France, and its main artist lives in the Netherlands. They don't have a staff artist, they freelance out everything, so yes the "just got this in the mail" comment is accurate.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:08:43


Post by: RiTides


I'm not assuming the worst, just saying the impression I'm being given!

The concept art on the KoW Kickstarter was handled well and I was impressed by that. Almost sprung for those ogres and trolls.

What I'm saying it I'm getting a different impression here, and I'm not the only one to have said so, so maybe that's some feedback they should take into the account? Customer's always right and all that

Okay, point's been made, I won't reply further...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:10:17


Post by: Zweischneid


It is.

I LOVE the fact that they want feedback for the team designs.

I LOVE the fact that they seemingly listened to the audience with the Hex-bases.


Mantic is doing many things right. But they are not doing EVERYTHING right and it is usually in discussion forums like this one where these things are discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 scarletsquig wrote:


@Zwei: You're mis-quoting Mantic when you state that they just "found the artwork in a drawer".. the actual statement is that the concept artwork they commissioned for the female team arrived in the inbox of the person manging the kickstarter.


I was not quoting. I was trying to come up with a Reaper analogy for Reaper, not Mantic.

And I already lost one bet by presuming things were worse than they were.

Once again, if Mantic are blameless in this, than it is even more sad that the general vibe some people get from them is that they are seemingly being taken for fools. It could be easily avoided.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:14:40


Post by: Black Nexus


fair point, i think it's a shame that it's been taken that way but hey ho, maybe it'll get better as a result of your feedback.

We’ve been playing around with what the next stretch goal could be and when we got this concept from Roberto Cirillo earlier today, we thought what the heck – could it be a female Corporation team?


i think they were slowing down, got this done and changed their minds on what came next and put this out for feedback.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:18:59


Post by: Zweischneid


 Black Nexus wrote:


i think they were slowing down, got this done and changed their minds on what came next and put this out for feedback.


If that is the case, they could have said so. Is it that hard?

I mean, this IS the problem. You think there is a certain motivation behind it. Others think there are other motives behind it. Your "reading between the lines" is fairly benign. Other people's interpretation is more negative.

But nobody seems to just take their word at face-value anymore.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:29:15


Post by: Alpharius


 Zweischneid wrote:
 Black Nexus wrote:


i think they were slowing down, got this done and changed their minds on what came next and put this out for feedback.


If that is the case, they could have said so. Is it that hard?

I mean, this IS the problem. You think there is a certain motivation behind it. Others think there are other motives behind it. Your "reading between the lines" is fairly benign. Other people's interpretation is more negative.

But nobody seems to just take their word at face-value anymore.


I know, right?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:34:21


Post by: frozenwastes


Why can't "well what do we have here?" be humour? Why does it have to be a malicious plot?

What do they gain by plotting to pretend to just get the concept art sent to them?

This doesn't make any sense. To formulate some grand conspiracy about concept art gains them nothing.


Even if Mantic is guiltless in this, after and precisely because they took similar criticism for the "clumsy" wording of their Forge Father MVP stretch-goal, I would have hoped they would try to shoot for a less patronizing tone, even if its just to be on the safe side.


I think people are being patronizing to themselves and reading into this. This "tone" is all in your head. Just like your last tin-foil hat conspiracy about the MVP.

You're seeing concept art months ahead of the product release and are being asked for your input as to which one you like best. And you think that's comparible to GW's information clamp down?

WTF?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:36:37


Post by: ironicsilence


People misunderstood something wrote on the internet?

Wait? What?

More on topic, the female team would likely get me to pledge into this KS


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:38:55


Post by: frozenwastes


scarletsquig wrote:
Mantic hires freelancers, its main sculptor lives in France, and its main artist lives in the Netherlands. They don't have a staff artist, they freelance out everything, so yes the "just got this in the mail" comment is accurate.


NO! It's all part of a grand conspiracy to misrepresent things and insult people's intelligence for no gain whatsoever.

Mantic wrote:We’ve been playing around with what the next stretch goal could be and when we got this concept from Roberto Cirillo earlier today, we thought what the heck – could it be a female Corporation team?


What about this sounds like a secret conspiracy where they lied about having their concept art ready? What about this sounds like it's insulting your intelligence?

They were contemplating a stretch goal. Their artist emailed them some concept art. They shared it and asked for your feedback.

How patronizing! How conspiratorial!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:40:12


Post by: mattyrm


I agree with Zwei to an extent definitely. I mean, I don't care either way about the speculation stuff, I never have done because I don't take the hobby too seriously.

I backed Mantics kickstarter at $225 and haven't bought any GW minis for over a year, but seriously.. the amount of weird entitled nerds that have some bizarre irrational hatred for GW on these forums is alarming. There are clearly double standards for GW and every other company, even though they are all doing the same thing.. you know.. trying to make money.

I could understand it if they were all teenagers, but we have grown men in their thirties come here behaving like hormonal bunny boiling backstreet boys fans who try to kill the singer because he didn't reply to their fan mail.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 13:55:27


Post by: scarletsquig



I backed Mantics kickstarter at $225 and haven't bought any GW minis for over a year, but seriously.. the amount of weird entitled nerds that have some bizarre irrational hatred for GW on these forums is alarming.

Again, with this conveniently non-specific insult that is being applied to everyone on Dakka who expresses a like of Mantic (or any non-GW company now, is it?). Time to get out the tarring brush again.

Since I'm the most visible Mantic fan on Dakka, there's no reason for me to not assume this is a personal attack, unless you'd like to clarify who exactly it is that you have a problem with posting rabid love of Mantic etc. and rabid hatred of GW constantly?

My posts about GW on this forum are rare and mostly indifferent, I even recently posted that GW price complaints are pointless.

Of course that doesn't matter because I'm not the type to jump to conclusions, but hopefully this illustrates why blanket statements like that are horrible, and serve no purpose other than potentially causing offense.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 14:10:24


Post by: Black Nexus


More on topic, the female team would likely get me to pledge into this KS


I'm definitely going to be upping my pledge.

i do wonder what's next though, do we think robots, aliens?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 14:31:06


Post by: Pacific


Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 14:36:46


Post by: judgedoug


 Pacific wrote:
Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?


Holy crap I want space zombie athletes.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 14:45:27


Post by: Zweischneid


 Black Nexus wrote:
More on topic, the female team would likely get me to pledge into this KS


I'm definitely going to be upping my pledge.

i do wonder what's next though, do we think robots, aliens?


Well, they also asked for robot feedback on Twitter> https://twitter.com/manticgames/status/242941358585823232


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 14:46:14


Post by: adamsouza


Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:07:38


Post by: Buzzsaw


 mattyrm wrote:
There are clearly double standards for GW and every other company, even though they are all doing the same thing.. you know.. trying to make money.


This whole discussion of comparing GW and Mantic puts me in mind of the old quip by William F. Buckley; if one man pushes an old woman in front of a bus, and another pushes her out of the way of the bus, it makes no sense to condemn them both as the sort of men that push old ladies around.

As near as I have been able to tell, Mantic is doing vastly more of what people are always hoping GW will do: listen.

 mattyrm wrote:
I could understand it if they were all teenagers, but we have grown men in their thirties come here behaving like hormonal bunny boiling backstreet boys fans who try to kill the singer because he didn't reply to their fan mail.


First, nice alliteration.

Second, there seems to be in these kickstarter threads an unhealthy level of personal involvement in these projects. Not the creators, of course, their involvement in completely healthy, as these projects do, after all, involve their future livelihood, nor necessarily the fans (Scarletsquig, for example, has done an admirable job pointing people to a project he wants to succeed).

But these threads lately seem to be attracting a kind of amateur malcontent. By that I mean people that have a grudge against the company for a perceived slight (not to be confused with people legitimately upset about failures in prior dealings, such as was the case with the Avatars of War indigogo). I mean people that are acting, there is no other word for it, personally offended by these projects.

It's honestly making these threads very tedious to read and threatening to drown out the actual discussion of the projects at hand.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:19:27


Post by: Alpharius


 Buzzsaw wrote:


It's honestly making these threads very tedious to read and threatening to drown out the actual discussion of the projects at hand.


Agreed!

But, you do see what you've done there too, right?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:22:08


Post by: RiTides


Yeah, it'd be nice to get back to being a bit more positive. However, that's also a lot easier when people can take constructive criticism- not everyone is going to be 100% in favor of everything in a campaign, but there are things to love here, even if it's probably not for me (I liked their KoW campaign a lot better).

So, cease fire and all that?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:31:17


Post by: Buzzsaw


 Alpharius wrote:
 Buzzsaw wrote:


It's honestly making these threads very tedious to read and threatening to drown out the actual discussion of the projects at hand.


Agreed!

But, you do see what you've done there too, right?


I've pointed out a problem with sufficient specificity that it's now plain to see, thus making your job easier and more straightforward? You're welcome.

Happy to help.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:35:33


Post by: AlexHolker


 Pacific wrote:
Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?

It would make absolutely no sense at all with regards to the background of any game not populated by pod people. Anyone who would attempt to use The Plague for entertainment deserves to be incinerated along with his charges for gross stupidity.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:35:37


Post by: Alpharius


 Buzzsaw wrote:


I've pointed out a problem with sufficient specificity that it's now plain to see, thus making your job easier and more straightforward? You're welcome.

Happy to help.


Not quite.

Back to civility and on topic posts.

Or, you know...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 15:50:16


Post by: ironicsilence


FEAR THE MOD HAMMER!


More on topic...this game needs the female team....if only so that I can play the humans and have a female "QB" so I can recreate the Starship troopers team....also a Not Rico MVP (as already mentioned) would quickly shift this game into SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 16:09:00


Post by: judgedoug


 adamsouza wrote:
Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.


Not a bad idea, as long as they pull it off so that there wouldn't be a billion cries of "TEY R NECRONZs!!! Mantic isa ripoff of GW!@" (while Stan Winston rolls in his grave and James Cameron rolls his eyes)


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 16:10:04


Post by: mattyrm


 scarletsquig wrote:

I backed Mantics kickstarter at $225 and haven't bought any GW minis for over a year, but seriously.. the amount of weird entitled nerds that have some bizarre irrational hatred for GW on these forums is alarming.

Since I'm the most visible Mantic fan on Dakka, there's no reason for me to not assume this is a personal attack, unless you'd like to clarify who exactly it is that you have a problem with posting rabid love of Mantic etc. and rabid hatred of GW constantly?

My posts about GW on this forum are rare and mostly indifferent, I even recently posted that GW price complaints are pointless.


You answered your own question. See the bit I bolded? Why the feth would you think it was a personal attack on you, when you just said two seconds later that you hardly ever post about GW?!

I haven't actually read a single post of yours having a go at GW either! So clearly It wasnt a personal attack. I'm curious as to why you would think that being a mantic fan = GW hater though? Can you not like both? Im sure most people fall into that category.. you know.. normal consumers who simply buy what they like? I have spent far more on Mantic than I have on GW the past 12 months, ergo, I like Mantic.

I also like AOW and Reaper and Scibor, I have purchased from all of them. What on earth does liking one company have to do with hating another? Needless to say, the two aren't linked, and I have been blissfully unaware of your feelings towards GW. I was merely pointing out an obvious occurrence on the boards in general, that some people take the hobby far too seriously and behave ridiculously as a result of it, but If I had to name the top ten "irrational haters" that spring to mind, your name wouldn't be amongst them, so you have no need to take things personally.

On topic, Im not buying in because I have 220 goblins to finish assembling. And obviously DV will turn up at some point as well.

Unless it becomes a really good deal of course....then... I can afford it I suppose... and I never did play Bloodbowl.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 16:31:47


Post by: nkelsch


 AlexHolker wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?

It would make absolutely no sense at all with regards to the background of any game not populated by pod people. Anyone who would attempt to use The Plague for entertainment deserves to be incinerated along with his charges for gross stupidity.


There is plenty of room for more human teams and alien species before we need to simply resort to 'fantasy in space' teams. We don't necessarily need space lizards, space elves, space undead and such... Maybe a cyborg team or a team based upon underworld gene splicing. Hell, even straight up 'greys' with big eyes or something would be fine. I would take 1950's looking lost in space robot team... just not any more fantasy in space!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 16:57:00


Post by: Black Nexus


$155K hit and number 88 is in Striker along with all of this stuff:



they went with the female team next at $175 (and you can now add it to your pledge for $20). still some amendments to make to the concept art but I think it looks great as is so I've upped mine.

Lots of thanks being given for listening.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 17:01:47


Post by: ironicsilence


So if I understand right once the female team is unlocked I can pledge 170 bucks and get the female team plus all the striker stuff? Including 2 extra female models?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 17:21:39


Post by: nkelsch


 ironicsilence wrote:
So if I understand right once the female team is unlocked I can pledge 170 bucks and get the female team plus all the striker stuff? Including 2 extra female models?


Yeah, do we have to up our pledge to 170$ now... or will we be able to add the 20$ later upon completion of the kickstarter? I am basically going to want 'one of every model' not included in striker.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 17:23:19


Post by: Black Nexus


yep, you can pledge the $170 and get Striker, the 2 female models and a team of 8 models for a total of 10, not to mention you have Wildard, John Doe and Number 88 which are all MVPs that will play for any team. you don't need to wait until they're unlocked thoug, you can pledge now and get them closer to the goal so it becomes more likely to happen. can't see it not happening with 25 days left but every little helps right.

@ nkelsch they let peple add stuff after the kickstarter for kow had finished but the thing with that is you've missed out on adding to the overall total which would be pushing them towards higher stretch goal and overall more models. still, shouldn't be a problem


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 17:26:20


Post by: adhuin


It's good that we get few freebies, sowe can mix-n-match with the men's team.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 18:20:25


Post by: coyotius


This came up during the Sedition Wars kickstarter...for those of you who only have Paypal funds (i.e. no credit card), you can apply for a Paypal debit card here:

https://personal.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us/debit_card&bn_r=o

Again, this isn't a credit card, but a Mastercard backed debit card you can use anywhere that takes credit cards like Amazon in this case. I'm not sure what the turn around time is but I think you have time before this kickstarter ends.

During the SW kickstarter there were some folks who wanted to pledge but only had paypal so I thought I'd mention it fairly early. The card draws from your paypal balance or you backup source if you don't have funds.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 18:50:35


Post by: scarletsquig


^ Only available in the US, otherwise I'd have got one already!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 21:14:34


Post by: Pacific


 AlexHolker wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Any chance that the Warpath space-zombie faction will get a team?

Or will that make absolutely no-sense at all with regards to the background of the game?

It would make absolutely no sense at all with regards to the background of any game not populated by pod people. Anyone who would attempt to use The Plague for entertainment deserves to be incinerated along with his charges for gross stupidity.


Thanks for the reply, and I'll be honest that did make me chuckle!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 22:27:08


Post by: Azazelx


 Zweischneid wrote:
Sure they are comparable.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.


Thank you. At least someone here gets it. Also to you, RiTides.


 scarletsquig wrote:
Well, they were really good at taking feedback into account on the KoW Kickstarter, the Ogre concept art has changed significantly, taking into account a lot of public feedback.


Has it? First I've heard about it.


they freelance out everything, so yes the "just got this in the mail" comment is accurate.


Or to put it another way, you are either a big fan of Mantic on the internet and know as little as we do about the actual facts, and how accurate or not the speculation is, or you know what goes on in Mantic's leadership meetings and are privvy to all of their plans.

By the way, I use the word "plans" not in some sort of Doctor Evil supervillan way, as you keep trying to Straw Man away, but in the way that adults use the word, as in making plans as any business, organisation or company does, as you do when planning your career path, and so forth.

It's simply critical thinking and not instantly believing everything that's told to you at face value by Mantic (or any company). Just the same as you hopefully don't believe everything that people tell you in person. People and entities use various means to manipulate others' opinions of them all the time. Nothing personal(?) towards Mantic. I went in with quite a lot of money on their KoW, and got in on this one quickly enough to get an Early Bird. I don't think they're an evil company made up of embittered ex-GW employees ripping off GW at every turn, and I think they definitely do have a healthier attitude to their players (and fans) than some others. I quite like them in fact. It doesn't mean they're beyond reproach though.

Buzzsaw - I think Kickstarter threads attract an extra level of criticism and scrutiny because of the nature of the beast. This isn't finding out about the new 40k Box set 2 week ago and talking about going to the shop to buy it this weekend. This (and all KS threads) are about "Give us your money now and we'll give you something cool later." If it's not reasonable to have an extra layer of scrutiny on this kind of situation, I don't know when it is.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
judgedoug wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.


Not a bad idea, as long as they pull it off so that there wouldn't be a billion cries of "TEY R NECRONZs!!! Mantic isa ripoff of GW!@" (while Stan Winston rolls in his grave and James Cameron rolls his eyes)


I didn't think of this. I actually find judgedoug's concept pretty cool. Though I pictured it more like sci-fi partially armoured skeletons/zombies. They would need helmets with bolts coming out of them instead of skull-helmets.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 22:32:42


Post by: adamsouza


I'm glad there will be a female team.
I'm not terribly excited about paying another $20 for it before the concept art is even finished.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 22:36:29


Post by: Black Nexus


that's ok, people we're pledging on Kings of War without any concept art at all.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 22:41:22


Post by: judgedoug


 scipio.au wrote:

judgedoug wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
Undead players controlled, most of the time, by nanotech, with reinforced exoskeletons. They feel no pain, have no fear, and play till they drop, literally.


Not a bad idea, as long as they pull it off so that there wouldn't be a billion cries of "TEY R NECRONZs!!! Mantic isa ripoff of GW!@" (while Stan Winston rolls in his grave and James Cameron rolls his eyes)


I didn't think of this. I actually find judgedoug's concept pretty cool. Though I pictured it more like sci-fi partially armoured skeletons/zombies. They would need helmets with bolts coming out of them instead of skull-helmets.


It was adamsouza's idea, not mine I like the idea, too. Another thing to watch out for is not going too close to the Strain or the Dead Space monsters.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/05 22:57:06


Post by: nkelsch


 Black Nexus wrote:
that's ok, people we're pledging on Kings of War without any concept art at all.
And that is madness. I feel like having a lot of the core models already done inspires a lot more confidence that the promised alternative sculpts and star players will materialize in a quality fashion. I feel like whoever is making these look like a 'take 2' on the Warpath releases and has worked out most of the scale/proportions/poses issues.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 01:55:42


Post by: AlexHolker


nkelsch wrote:
There is plenty of room for more human teams and alien species before we need to simply resort to 'fantasy in space' teams. We don't necessarily need space lizards, space elves, space undead and such... Maybe a cyborg team or a team based upon underworld gene splicing. Hell, even straight up 'greys' with big eyes or something would be fine. I would take 1950's looking lost in space robot team... just not any more fantasy in space!

Non-humanoid robots could work for training or spectacle matches (like Watson on Jeopardy!), but I don't think they'd work well for other play. Better to stick with robots with arms and legs than having the league try to work out if the pitching machine riding a segway is a fair match for a human.

One thing I thought of that could be fun, at least as a one-off, is a team made up of refurbished Ref-Bots. Maybe they'd be slightly worse players but make up for it by being less affected by facing (due to having a machine brain and eyes in the back of their heads).


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 04:25:32


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 ironicsilence wrote:

More on topic...this game needs the female team....if only so that I can play the humans and have a female "QB" so I can recreate the Starship troopers team....also a Not Rico MVP (as already mentioned) would quickly shift this game into SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY


I would love that, as well as some other sci-fi sports-themed MVPs...

Like these guys.

Or Toe Pick.

nkelsch wrote:

There is plenty of room for more human teams and alien species before we need to simply resort to 'fantasy in space' teams. We don't necessarily need space lizards, space elves, space undead and such... Maybe a cyborg team or a team based upon underworld gene splicing. Hell, even straight up 'greys' with big eyes or something would be fine. I would take 1950's looking lost in space robot team... just not any more fantasy in space!


But I want a space-lizard MVP! Ooh, and a team of space(?) bears! Make this happen, Mantic!

Or, you know, stick to the theme and use some decent sci-fi concepts. If you happen to still have some clear blue or red acrylic left over, I hear energy beings are totally in right now.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 08:36:39


Post by: Azazelx


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 ironicsilence wrote:

More on topic...this game needs the female team....if only so that I can play the humans and have a female "QB" so I can recreate the Starship troopers team....also a Not Rico MVP (as already mentioned) would quickly shift this game into SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY


I would love that, as well as some other sci-fi sports-themed MVPs...

Like these guys.

Or Toe Pick.


Careful! You know what'll happen if they add a player with a chainsaw to the game!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 scarletsquig wrote:

Wouldn't be surprised to see this end with around 90 minis total for the striker level, (8x10 mini teams + 8 MVPS + ref + trophy). Possibly even more, it all depends on how far it rolls.


Looks like it's now headed the other way - Stretch goals are adding the "extra players" to Striker, rather than the whole teams. Might get to 60ish if they follow this path now that they've switched from adding to Striker to add-ons for Striker. Clever though to still give 2 figures to Striker level pledges - so the extras act as encouragement for people to buy the whole/rest of the team as add-ons.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 09:41:42


Post by: scarletsquig


^ Well, there will already be 55 minis in striker after the next stretch is reached, with 3 weeks left to run.

And that's just with 175k pledged after 2 weeks.

70-80ish now seems more likely, but it really depends on what you expect the final result of the KS to be. I'm sticking to my 500k estimate, despite the slight mid-campaign slowdown.

The 2 free minis are a nice enough middle ground, especially for a short $20k stretch.

With teams up to 14 players, they can always go nuts in the last week/ few days and start chucking out a ton of +2 players! stretch goals to make it easy for them to add stretches without having to spread themselves too thin. There's still room for 2-4 more female human freebies if Mantic ends up with the capacity to do so (at which point paying the $20 extra to buy the team anyway becomes very appealing).

Another stretch goal to add another 2 mini to striker and another 2 minis to all purchases of the female team would be an extremely smart move.. since that would add incentive from both sides... wanting to have a use for those 4 minis in striker, and wanting to buy the team because it's a better deal, and take you up to your max of 14. All it takes is 1000 backers to really want to buy that extra team and all of a sudden you've raised another $20k for the total. Something similar could work for any future teams which get added.

We've already had something similar to that with MVPs being added to the FF and Veermyn teams bought as extras, so there's potential for that to happen again (although with extra players rather than MVPs added).

They'd have to be careful about the rules making their packing harder though, since you can never have more than double your starting team's quota of guards, jacks or strikers at any point... if the mini count goes over that then you're left with a mini you can't use.

Not one of the best rules, that... from what people are saying, bloodbowl had a similar problem of "unusable leftovers" when buying things... small gain for rules balance, large pain for buying the minis you need.

Of course, in Mantic's case it is highly likely that it'll end up being "small gain for rules balance, absolute nightmare for Mantic's warehouse staff" as they make sure no-one gets given illegal teams and also start selling individuals on their website.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 13:52:00


Post by: adamsouza


I think people are being way to OCD about getting extra figures they cant use. Which is hysterical to me when you realize that they are end up with exactly that "problem" when they buy a second box of figures to fill out their Forgefarther,Veymen, and Female teams.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 14:15:15


Post by: Black Nexus


you *CAN* use them through the free agents rules in the rulebook or you can mix them into your corporation team. where's the fuss about getting models you can't use?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 14:22:04


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Black Nexus wrote:
you *CAN* use them through the free agents rules in the rulebook or you can mix them into your corporation team. where's the fuss about getting models you can't use?


The potential (and to my mind minimal problem) is that a team can have no more than double the base players in each of the 3 slots, guard/striker/jack

so folk were worried if they got random figures added to a box they might end up with too many guards etc.

Mantic have promised that won't happen

They've also said they will revisit the FF & Vermyn to add some extras (so they are comparable with the orx and human teams), but the female team got moved ahead of this due to the demand for them


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 14:23:53


Post by: adamsouza


I follow the comments on the Kickstarter as well. There was discussion of it there a few days back.

In actual news:

The MDF board arrived at Mantic today. They hope to have pictures up later today.

The MDF board is one sided and the hex grid is cut and recessed rather than etched. Do you mean how thick (wide) are the cuts? 1mm thick. The hexes are 25mm, it's exactly the same size as the playing area on the main board.


Mantic is asking if people are interested in additional refbot models as an Add-On.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 16:08:55


Post by: Black Nexus


ah i see i don't think that'll be a problem, particularly if they've said they can avoid it happening.

I want to get my girlies though.

EDIT: new concept up through the update:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts/303243


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 23:14:34


Post by: Alpharius


A female team that matches the concept art in quality will make Mantic a lot of money.

As it is, the concept art alone will bring in a lot of additional backers!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 23:21:26


Post by: nkelsch


Eh, the females don't look too different than the males... just seems like an alternative gender sculpt for the corp team, which is fine. I will wait to see what makes them 'LOL all bewbs' team. I would rather see all of the teams be co-ed and lets get females in all the teams as alternative sculpts.

Let's just power through to more other stuff. Give me s'more space aliens or crazy robots


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/06 23:27:37


Post by: adamsouza


I like the concept art


I know they want to stay away from big breasted bimbos, but this woman is anerexic and flat chested.

Ever seen the women's olympic volleyball team, or roller derby players ? They're curvier, and more muscular.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 00:08:38


Post by: Buzzsaw


 adamsouza wrote:
I like the concept art
...

I know they want to stay away from big breasted bimbos, but this woman is anerexic and flat chested.

Ever seen the women's olympic volleyball team, or roller derby players ? They're curvier, and more muscular.



Uh, waa? I dunno which volleyball team you are referring to, but when I think of women's volleyball, I think of Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh. They're not exactly busty.



Personally, the concept art is spot on to me, both in terms of aesthetics and in keeping with my impression of the highest tier female athletes (see above).


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 00:21:44


Post by: Vain


Gotta agree with Buzzsaw, athletes come in many shapes and sizes depending on what their needs are. Hell, even in your example of Roller Derby there is usually a big difference between a team's Jammer and their dedicated Blockers.



Personally I hope the concept is for a Striker, with Jacks and Guards being a little more muscley.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 00:25:34


Post by: adamsouza


Google Girls VolleyBall and you will see hundreds of pics of athletic young women, with round booties and developed thigh muscles, that make that Dreadball player look like an anerexic twig in comparison. Remember that DB player is wrapped in protective gear She'd have to be supermodel thin, and that's not athletic.

Let me change it up, I hope that the female team has three different sized body types like the male team



That image is perfect. !

The 3 on the left should be impact sports players, while the 2 on the right are two frail. The girl in the concept image is built like the girl Olga, on the right, except with an even tiner waistline.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 00:56:53


Post by: Buzzsaw


 adamsouza wrote:
Google Girls VolleyBall and you will see hundreds of pics of athletic young women, with round booties and developed thigh muscles...


I'm just going to imagine how that sounds when said aloud for a moment. There, that's good.

 adamsouza wrote:
That image is perfect. !

The 3 on the left should be impact sports players, while the 2 on the right are two frail. The girl in the concept image is built like the girl Olga, on the right, except with an even tiner waistline.


Not to belabor the obvious, but you realize that you think the stationary athletes should be impact athletes, while the women in the highest impact, more dangerous sport, you label "two[sic] frail".

Again, while I'm sure there are athletes that fit the model you propose, if one wants to (as you suggested) compare the figure to, say, the dominant female volleyball players for the last decade, they look fine to me.

The concept reminds me of this lass;


Feel free to tell her she's an anorexic twig. Might want to bring a bag for your teeth.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 05:25:12


Post by: Dysartes


It's unusual to see a piece of artwork showing a woman in a game setting being criticised for not giving her the proportions of a glamour model...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 05:32:11


Post by: adamsouza


Now, I just think you guys are screwing with me.

You can't seriously be arguing that gymnastic lass is going to last more than 3.2 seconds against the roid monsters on the 4 established teams.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 06:13:18


Post by: Buzzsaw


 adamsouza wrote:
Now, I just think you guys are screwing with me.

You can't seriously be arguing that gymnastic lass is going to last more than 3.2 seconds against the roid monsters on the 4 established teams.



I'm pointing out the attributes of real women. I'm not entirely sure one can make "serious" arguments about kinesiology in a game universe where one team is giant rats...

In any case, this is an unwarranted diversion, I'll stop feeding the detours and simply say "I like the concept art".


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 06:32:16


Post by: Azazelx


I'd suggest that the concept art is simply a bit too thin. I don't think "flat-chested" is much of an issue, and I like the fact that she's not over-developed in the bust, but I do think she's a bit too wasp-waisted, when you take into consideration she's supposed to be wearing armour (even tight armour) over her skin. I think Buzzsaw's pic of the volleyball players illustrates it well - they're lithe and muscular, and while their waists are toned and don't have an inch of fat on them, they aren't tiny wasp-waists either.

I'd also second the idea of having multiple body types for the different positions.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 11:28:23


Post by: scarletsquig


It's a 28mm miniature, you have to exaggerate the proportions a little or its just going to look like a dude with boobs.

Obviously, not exaggerate it too much, otherwise it just looks horrible. Think they've found a nice balance here.

This is nothing compared to the forgefather team which would be brilliant sculpts if their hands weren't the same size as their torsos... that's the one gigantic big flaw in all of Roberto's latest non-human concept art that constantly gets repeated, if anything is muscled, he gives it hands that are torso-sized, just like one of those godawful PP hordes minis where the hands make up 60% of the model's mass. I'm surprised no-one in this thread has mentioned that so far and are instead fussing over whether the female waist should be 2mm thicker. GW went through its "hammy mchamfist" phase for about 8 years or so before toning things down, I'd prefer it if Mantic skipped it entirely.

I'm totally fine with heroic scale proportions for DreadBall, since you can write it off as genetic enhancements for the sport, but hopefully the style doesn't cross over into the Warpath range.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 11:39:53


Post by: Azazelx


That's a fair point about the Forgefathers' hands, though I was just looking at them in the same way as the PP figures, or the Incredible Hulk. Their clothing choices bother me more, TBH.

While I agree that some exaggeration is necessary for the scale, having the waists too tiny and the models too skinny (as in the concept art) will make them look non-human. And we all know how well their elves went down, don't we?



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 11:54:01


Post by: scarletsquig


Just thought I'd point it out since this debate is going down the road of "the girls need to be giants or the roid monsters will eat them".

No-one is considering the fact that the roid monster sculpts might be at fault there!

Both the Orx and the Forgefathers are massively "hulked out" compared to the Warpath minis (which are extremely nice true-scale sculpts once you ignore the fantasy parts), and I imagine the Veer-Myn guard will be too.

Besides, the male team is pretty much all at standard size/proportions for humans (with different armour for the strikers, guards and jacks), it would look weird to have the females chunkier/taller than they are.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 11:59:48


Post by: Azazelx


I was looking at them in comparison to the Corp team, who are pretty bulky in comparison. And while man are bulkier than women in general, we're talking about athletes that should be comparably proportioned considering they're playing the same sport in the same positions.

Maybe smaller overall, but comparably proportioned.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 12:08:58


Post by: Black Nexus


she is only a jack. i suspect the guard might have full armour and be a bit beefier.

I like her, i don't have a problem with her waist.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 13:34:16


Post by: Divine_Tyranny


Always the same can of worms when anyone does a female sculpt, cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 13:42:42


Post by: Zweischneid


 Divine_Tyranny wrote:
Always the same can of worms when anyone does a female sculpt, cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


Which is why there are discussion forums, right? It's the place where people express, share and discuss their diverging views on the internet.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 14:03:48


Post by: nkelsch


 scarletsquig wrote:


Both the Orx and the Forgefathers are massively "hulked out" compared to the Warpath minis (which are extremely nice true-scale sculpts once you ignore the fantasy parts), and I imagine the Veer-Myn guard will be too.
And that is why I love them, and the flaws (if any) are hidden.

True-scale has a the issue of having to be perfect or any slight issue becomes 'in your face' which means it has to be perfect or not at all.

I like the giant fists and the bulkyness of the humans. As long as the females actually look like they can fit in the suit, that will be great. That armor is almost spandex from the concept art, unless they are cyborg females with robot bodies


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 14:54:03


Post by: Alpharius


 Zweischneid wrote:
 Divine_Tyranny wrote:
Always the same can of worms when anyone does a female sculpt, cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


Which is why there are discussion forums, right? It's the place where people express, share and discuss their diverging views on the internet.


Up to a point.

Harping on the same point over and over is somewhat frowned upon and after a certain amount can and will be considered spam/trolling/etc.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 14:54:49


Post by: Ghiest1


Will you be able to swap out one team for another in the striker level?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 15:34:33


Post by: Zweischneid


 Alpharius wrote:

Up to a point.

Harping on the same point over and over is somewhat frowned upon and after a certain amount can and will be considered spam/trolling/etc.


Is it?

Funny enough, I always thought repetitive product pitches and thinly disguised advertisement-posts/threads is what most forums consider spam, not the critical discussion thereof.

One never stops learning I guess


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 16:03:14


Post by: Manchu


If you want to argue with polite moderation about what is spam, take it to PM. Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 16:03:48


Post by: Black Nexus


Will you be able to swap out one team for another in the striker level?


pretty sure that Striker is just the teams listed and the other teams will need to be added on if you want them


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 16:44:31


Post by: adamsouza


I'm wondering what the delay is in putting up the pictures of the MDF board.

As for the female corporation team, we are going to have to disagree on what constitutes the appropriate body type for a woman who is expected to survive in a sports arena against larger opponents of the opposite gender and other races.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 17:01:38


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Ronnie is live on the KS feed answering questions

for how long this will go on, no idea, LOL


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 19:01:34


Post by: Black Nexus


mantic have posted up an example rush now Ronnie has gone home. You can download it here

http://manticgames.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=e62f0c35454fa3ba687404d69&id=98bf921486&e=73ad690512

shows a first turn and five actions, apparently it's ripped straight from the book.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 19:06:44


Post by: Pacific


Interesting stuff, and thanks for posting it! So it seems like it uses a system of order-giving in some ways similar to Infinity - rather than each model having its own actions, you have a pool from which the whole team draws.

And adamsouze please stop posting that bloody photo !


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 20:46:29


Post by: sparkywtf


So now we can buy team dice!

I feel kind of... jipped... by Mantic. Sure at 150 I get 4 teams and the MVPs, but I feel like... 6 dice per team would have been a great added stretch goal for some extra free stuff. I just am not seeing added value for my money that I have gotten on pretty much every other kickstarter.

Maybe SW and Reaper has ruined KS for the smaller guys.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 20:51:02


Post by: Alpharius


Custom dice can be expensive.

There's plenty of added value in here already - with lots more to come, I'm sure!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 21:03:06


Post by: Manchu


I agree. I don't like Mantic's products pretty much at all and even I am seriously on the fence about Dread Ball.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 22:23:27


Post by: Buzzsaw


 Manchu wrote:
I agree. I don't like Mantic's products pretty much at all and even I am seriously on the fence about Dread Ball.


The thing that really blows my mind is... this thing still has more then 3 weeks to run!



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/07 22:48:58


Post by: Souleater


I kinda like it but nobody at my club is remotely interested. It has been written off because they would 'rather just play Blood Bowl'

Too much cash on Planetary Annihilation and SedWars to spring for this on my own in the hope that I can badger somebody into trying it.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 00:04:36


Post by: Azazelx


I was just looking at Kicktraq and it seems that DB is starting to really flatten out and lose momentum. Not sure what they can do, I'm sure a lot of people on the fence are hoping for a hell of a lot more before they jump in while others are very borderline about a fantasy sport game (and as you said, BB is still out there and the elephant).

For myself, I no longer see the point in adjusting my pledge every three days (on anyone's KS project) to add some dice or t-shirts or paints or whatever. Even for the female team, I mean I'd add the funds for them after they're unlocked, and the same if I were borderline on the project as well. Rather than pledge in the hope they get unlocked...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 00:57:42


Post by: ironicsilence


The flatting out really doesnt suprise me, most KS lose momentum and slow down in the middle only to ramp up again at the end, this one will be no different but I believe the slow down period will likely be longer as this kickstarter has a longer duration then most


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 01:00:51


Post by: Buzzsaw


 scipio.au wrote:
I was just looking at Kicktraq and it seems that DB is starting to really flatten out and lose momentum. Not sure what they can do, I'm sure a lot of people on the fence are hoping for a hell of a lot more before they jump in while others are very borderline about a fantasy sport game (and as you said, BB is still out there and the elephant).

For myself, I no longer see the point in adjusting my pledge every three days (on anyone's KS project) to add some dice or t-shirts or paints or whatever. Even for the female team, I mean I'd add the funds for them after they're unlocked, and the same if I were borderline on the project as well. Rather than pledge in the hope they get unlocked...


I wonder if they overshot by going for such a long funding period. Really, what is left?

I'd love a female team, but after that... do they even have any unrevealed armies left to use to make teams?

Such a large funding period seems more appropriate to a Warpath, really. Something very open ended. There just is so much you can add to a board game before people start going "waaa?", even Sedition Wars started to hit that towards the final stretch... it's just that Dreadball is hitting that point a lot earlier.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 02:15:00


Post by: adamsouza


Mantic was talking about originally 12 teams over 3 seasons and that the funding is already pushing them through season 2 and possibly season 3 by the end of the kickstarter.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 02:17:23


Post by: Buzzsaw


 adamsouza wrote:
Mantic was talking about originally 12 teams over 3 seasons and that the funding is already pushing them through season 2 and possibly season 3 by the end of the kickstarter.


Bwaaaa? What... what the heck would they be?

12 teams? Bloody heck... That seems a bit... grandiose for a board game...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 02:28:38


Post by: frozenwastes


*shrugs*

The project is funded, so even if it doesn't go on some crazy rollercoaster like the Reaper Kickstarter, it's still successful. Nothing wrong with preorders paying for production.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 02:45:01


Post by: adamsouza


 Buzzsaw wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
Mantic was talking about originally 12 teams over 3 seasons and that the funding is already pushing them through season 2 and possibly season 3 by the end of the kickstarter.


Bwaaaa? What... what the heck would they be?

12 teams? Bloody heck... That seems a bit... grandiose for a board game...


Don't think of it as a board game as much as entry level heroin to get you into the Warpath Universe fiction and line of games.

As for the teams, they said pretty much count on all the Warpath factions (Space Elves) and then teams based on new factions that haven't showed up in Warpath yet ( Zz'or).

Female Corporation team getting full team rules, of their own, so they are not just a proxy for the male team.

1. Corporation Male
2. Corporation Female
3. Rats
4. Dwarves
5. Orks
6. Zz'or <--- Confirmed, New Warpath Faction
7. Space Elves <-- Confirmed as Season 3 team
8. Robot <-- Mentioned as likely, but not confirmed
9. Plague <-- Mentioned as likely, but not confirmed
10. ?
11. ?
12 ?

Lots of new MVPs confirmed to be coming, but no details other than some of them will be homage figures.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 02:49:47


Post by: Cyporiean


there are also the rebels and plague.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 04:39:01


Post by: Manchu


 Buzzsaw wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
I agree. I don't like Mantic's products pretty much at all and even I am seriously on the fence about Dread Ball.
The thing that really blows my mind is... this thing still has more then 3 weeks to run!
That is what's troubling my wallet ...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 06:10:55


Post by: judgedoug


Better make a tentacle-y team!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 09:25:49


Post by: Black Nexus


That seems a bit... grandiose for a board game...


i guess that's what they mean when they said they'll support it like a major gaming system, something I think the Bloodbowl crowd have been seriously lacking for some time. Great that guys want to stay loyal to it, but still...

oh, and i think the reason for the slow-down (and if I read the stats they were building up until yesterday) is the fact that RK and the Digital card game is finishing. There's always ground rush towards the end.

EDIT: 2 backers to go and less than $5 to get the girlie teams. nearly there!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 09:45:37


Post by: Azazelx


In all seriousness, I like the fact that Blood Bowl is basically a "closed" game. None of the endless power creep or BS that something like 40k has. Just a good, fun game with a lot of options.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 13:35:53


Post by: Black Nexus


fair point. I just think the models haven't aged well and i can't play in store so sometimes I think they're just trying to kill it off.

that's part of the appeal of dreadball is that i know there's more coming around the corner and if I wanted to hold a league or a tournament or an event i could, and they'd help support me.

more choice in the teams and MVPs is a good thing IMO


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 19:25:50


Post by: timetowaste85


New news up from Ronnie, and Buzzsaw is half of the next stretch goal after the ladies. Anyone else thinking the mystery MVP is the other half of the SG?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 19:46:25


Post by: Kroothawk


 Black Nexus wrote:
fair point. I just think the models haven't aged well and i can't play in store so sometimes I think they're just trying to kill it off.

Maybe you are out of the loop, but the state of the art teams and models are made by companies like Willy Miniatures, Gaspez Arts, Greebo, Neomics, Impact and others:
http://www.comixininos.com/index.php/
http://www.impactminiatures.com/
See this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/400021.page






with gaming mats like these by http://www.ff-fields.com/standard-fields/




Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 19:55:28


Post by: scarletsquig


That was a brilliant kickstarter update.

Some nuggets of info:

- Stretch goals planned up to $1m.

- At the $400k mark, Striker! will have over 80 miniatures, and Season 2 with 4 extra teams will be complete.

- Beyond $400k there are plans for DreadBall Ultimate - 4 more teams, more MVPs, lots of crazy stuff like multi-hex giant monsters and robots.

- Beyond that, DreadBall Xtreme is planned, the underground variant of the game set in the streets with 3d terrain and a new pitch.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:01:41


Post by: Commander Cain


Sounds like if we reach $400k I won't be able to ignore this project any more!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:09:57


Post by: Zweischneid


Yeah. Latest Newsletter was great.

Most of all, I hope the "80+ miniatures" at 400.000 means they go back to US$ 15.000 stretch goals (or even lower) instead of the US$ 20.000 one for the girly team (another US$ 225.000 to go with an added 26 miniatures for spot on 80 in Striker would be about another 2 minis every US$ 17.000).

The current US$20.000 stretches with barely US$ 5.000 new pledges each day are part of the "lull" I believe.

They can always up the stretches again in the end (like Reaper did) when the frenzy is boiling.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:10:58


Post by: Dysartes


 Kroothawk wrote:
 Black Nexus wrote:
fair point. I just think the models haven't aged well and i can't play in store so sometimes I think they're just trying to kill it off.

Maybe you are out of the loop, but the state of the art teams and models are made by companies like Willy Miniatures, Gaspez Arts, Greebo, Neomics, Impact and others:
http://www.comixininos.com/index.php/
http://www.impactminiatures.com/
See this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/400021.page


Maybe you're out of the loop, Kroot, but Black Nexus' point was that the company who produces the game might be trying to kill the game off, not third parties.

After all, third parties can't block you playing in the company shops...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:25:11


Post by: Bolognesus


 Zweischneid wrote:
The current US$20.000 stretches with barely US$ 5.000 new pledges each day are part of the "lull" I believe.

They can always up the stretches again in the end (like Reaper did) when the frenzy is boiling.


Check out kicktraq and compare stretch goals at various points in any minis projectl the lull is inevitable. There's always a lull in the middle, just a result of enthusiasts pledging early on the one hand and many folks waiting until the end on the other. Those who'd get in knowing how much the value would rise have gotten in already, those who will wait until the deal is irresistible will wait until the end.
reaper was a bit of an exception but they're pretty much the only ones at any significant scale. SW, ZC, KoW, all the big ones in this category have it to a degree.

...Not that I'd mind smaller stretch intervals, of course


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:30:57


Post by: Zweischneid


Bolognesus wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
The current US$20.000 stretches with barely US$ 5.000 new pledges each day are part of the "lull" I believe.

They can always up the stretches again in the end (like Reaper did) when the frenzy is boiling.


Check out kicktraq and compare stretch goals at various points in any minis projectl the lull is inevitable. There's always a lull in the middle, just a result of enthusiasts pledging early on the one hand and many folks waiting until the end on the other. Those who'd get in knowing how much the value would rise have gotten in already, those who will wait until the deal is irresistible will wait until the end.
reaper was a bit of an exception but they're pretty much the only ones at any significant scale. SW, ZC, KoW, all the big ones in this category have it to a degree.

...Not that I'd mind smaller stretch intervals, of course


Perhaps. But it may well be one of the reasons why, generally speaking, the duration of a KS has a negative correlation with funding success (i.e. the longer a KS is, the less likely it is to succeed).

http://www.appsblogger.com/behind-kickstarter-crowdfunding-stats/
http://www.appsblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Kickstarter-infographic-625.jpg

Shorter Kickstarters struggle less with the "inevitable" lull and have an easier time keeping the excitement up. Just because a "lull" is perhaps inevitable, doesn't mean it cannot be damaging to the overall project.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:40:15


Post by: Bolognesus


 Zweischneid wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
The current US$20.000 stretches with barely US$ 5.000 new pledges each day are part of the "lull" I believe.

They can always up the stretches again in the end (like Reaper did) when the frenzy is boiling.


Check out kicktraq and compare stretch goals at various points in any minis projectl the lull is inevitable. There's always a lull in the middle, just a result of enthusiasts pledging early on the one hand and many folks waiting until the end on the other. Those who'd get in knowing how much the value would rise have gotten in already, those who will wait until the deal is irresistible will wait until the end.
reaper was a bit of an exception but they're pretty much the only ones at any significant scale. SW, ZC, KoW, all the big ones in this category have it to a degree.

...Not that I'd mind smaller stretch intervals, of course


Perhaps. But it may well be one of the reasons why, generally speaking, the duration of a KS has a negative correlation with funding success (i.e. the longer a KS is, the less likely it is to succeed).

http://www.appsblogger.com/behind-kickstarter-crowdfunding-stats/
http://www.appsblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Kickstarter-infographic-625.jpg

Shorter Kickstarters struggle less with the "inevitable" lull and have an easier time keeping the excitement up. Just because a "lull" is perhaps inevitable, doesn't mean it cannot be damaging to the overall project.


for what I remember of those articles is that they don't account for two factors: 1) a lot of the very long kickstarter projects are also some of the worst-designed and least focused projects, regardless of their duration. this rather skews the results. and 2) projects in, say, the dance or fashion categories behave differently from those in tech/design, which in turn are rather different than those in games. minis especially, with the high upfront and low per-unit costs tend to use stretch goals completely differently than other categories can do.

A game such as this *needs* about a month or so to slowly tease it's stretches onto it's crowd, one by one (remember, as long as each stretch feels somewhat significant many smaller stretches, eventually yielding the same amount of minis, can 'feel' bigger, more of a value, than a few somewhat bigger ones) and you want to have the project last a month if only so people can set aside some money from their next paycheck.

I see your point - they need to keep the flame burning during that month but they seem to have that covered rather well with their daily newsletters etc.
oh well, we're past the $175K point now anyway, so let's see if you get what you want
(I'm kind of guessing for $25K stretches sometime soon actually, but let's hope not )


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:41:26


Post by: timetowaste85


The girls are in! $175,000 has been hit by over $1000. Really excited to see who the new guy is, and to get Buzzcut in!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 20:47:22


Post by: nkelsch


Great... a sculpter gets to make his Mechano-bewbs... Can we get back to the real teams? And keep them Sci-Fi and not fantasy in space? Aliens, Robots and future stuff! Go watch an episode of Ben 10 or something.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:04:46


Post by: scarletsquig


New stretch goals up to $200k are now up.

2 quick $7500 stretches for 2 MVPs, and a further $10k stretch for a copy of the DreadBall Season 2 rules.

I like the background about Buzzcut - he gets fined every game for improper attire, but doesn't care because he makes so much money.

Quite similar to how a lot of celebrities and rich people IRL park wherever they want to and just pay the fines (Gordon Ramsey is notorious for paying £65k in parking fines each year, for example), once you have a certain amount of money you start being able to ignore the rules.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:11:55


Post by: timetowaste85


When I get back to the hotel from work, I guess I'll be upping my pledge to add in the ladies and additional hex bases. Already signed up for the DB paint set, $25 board and Striker. Time to add the women and another 44 hex bases.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:24:43


Post by: nkelsch


Buzzcut is awesome. I think mantic learned the first rule of sports games, don't make special characters rules without models otherwise be undercut by third parties.

I am looking forward to having the complete collection.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:29:11


Post by: ironicsilence


Likely missed it somewhere but has there been anything mentioned about ship dates for all the stretch goals. I know the base levels are suppose to ship in Dec but what about all the extra stuff?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:34:28


Post by: scarletsquig


^ FAQ at the bottom of the KS page:

We are aiming to get all the copies of the game and the initial releases shipped as soon as possible - by December 2012 at the latest. However, as the funds raised by this Kickstarter project allow us to create new teams and sculpts, we will be arranging a second shipment of products, with a current ETA of Q2 2013. Anyone whose reward level or extras include both initial and new products will receive two shipments.


So, June 2013 at the latest for all the extra stuff.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/08 22:40:12


Post by: Bolognesus




well, you got your smaller stretches


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 00:19:20


Post by: Azazelx


Good job by them on the stretches and info overnight.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 01:28:29


Post by: Buzzsaw


Am I hallucinating, or is the concept art put up for the Enforcer MVP just the Enforcer concept art from Warpath?

Dreadball;



From our News thread on Warpath;



That seems... off. Somehow. Maybe I'm being too sensitive about it.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 01:32:03


Post by: Cyporiean


I believe it will be a unique Enforcer sculpt for Dreadball.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 01:46:42


Post by: Buzzsaw


 Cyporiean wrote:
I believe it will be a unique Enforcer sculpt for Dreadball.


I should hope so, hehe! But I'm not crazy or missing something, right? That is the same concept art? I was expecting some subtle difference, but if there is one, I can't find it.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 01:50:17


Post by: Bolognesus


It's probably the same as with the KoW kickstarter - rushing to get artwork done, using that which is available as an indication, that kind of thing.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 02:05:14


Post by: timetowaste85


I'll be honest, my finger is hovering over the "add to cart" button for the Enforcer army. I think they're Mantic's best models so far...and they're far better looking than any Space Marine I've seen yet. The armor looks cooler, the faces look crueler, and they just exude an air of power. I think the Enforcer MVP for DB will be awesome, and will probably be my favorite or second favorite MVP after John Doe (who could resist a Cthulu sports star?!)

Sigh, of course my bank declines the purchase for the Enforcers at the moment...ran into this problem while trying to buy from Black Library. Oh well, I'll deal with it when I get home.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 12:00:38


Post by: Pacific


 timetowaste85 wrote:
I'll be honest, my finger is hovering over the "add to cart" button for the Enforcer army. I think they're Mantic's best models so far...and they're far better looking than any Space Marine I've seen yet. The armor looks cooler, the faces look crueler, and they just exude an air of power. I think the Enforcer MVP for DB will be awesome, and will probably be my favorite or second favorite MVP after John Doe (who could resist a Cthulu sports star?!)


Me too, I think they are awesome looking models. I've often thought about using them as Storm Troopers, with the Corporation minis for standard guard (and all mounted in Valkyries). And of course giving Warpath a go as well with them. But, it's more a case of already having 4 different armies/projects on the go..


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 12:46:10


Post by: scarletsquig


And.. the Enforcer is in!

Loads of new content up on Jake's blog about all the expansions: http://quirkworthy.com/

Of particular immediate interest, these are the four new teams that will appear in DreadBall Season 2:

- Female Corporation
- Zz'or (hints at mind control implants/ captive breeding programs to make them usable). Team focused on Guards and massive amounts of violence, presumably trying to win by killing everything that can score on the opposing team.
- Robots
- Judwan, completely new alien race, concept for them is a team made entirely of strikers.

Sounds good to me! Expansion to the humans, addition of a Warpath faction, addition of 2 solidly sci-fi factions (robots, weird aliens) as the other two.

The further this game (and Warpath as well) gets away from the whole "orcs, goblins, dwarfs and skaven in space" thing, the better.

That doesn't mean that those factions should cease getting support, just that they shouldn't make up 100% of the factions in the game. Ideally, the pure sci-fi factions should make up the majority.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 12:59:20


Post by: Zweischneid


Sounds good, but I thought female corporation was already in.

Does that mean only 3 more teams will be revealed for season 2? Or will the pull a season 3 team forward as they did with the girly team now?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 13:03:28


Post by: scarletsquig


Female team is already in. I was simply stating the 4 teams that will appear in the dreadball season 2 rulebook.

No idea if they'll "bring forward" a season 3 team before the $400k mark, depends on what other things they have planned for season 2, there's already going to be 4 different coaches and cheerleaders, there might also be another 8 MVPs or something (entirely possible if as Ronnie says, we're looking at breaking the 80 mini mark for Striker! at $400k).

Looking at the current mini count for Striker!... 58 (total after $200k is reached) + 6 from 3 new teams + 8 cheerleaders/coaches + 8 MVPs = 80 minis total. So, this will be matching/beating sedition wars for miniature count if it gets as far as that game did, but much more gradually since Mantic is sticking to 1-4 free minis per stretch and keeping the stretches short, rather than frontloading like SW did with the bulk of the freebies upfront (the +12 minis stretch goals) and 1-mini freebies/ $10 options as things progressed.

Either way, we're starting to get into the fun part of the Kickstarter! Won't be long until the $150 Striker level breaks the $300 RRP mark and will be offering a 50% discount off retail prices.

Really hope they've got some concept art for the Zz'or and Judwan prepped, those will be interesting to see.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 15:25:58


Post by: AlexHolker


 scarletsquig wrote:
- Zz'or (hints at mind control implants/ captive breeding programs to make them usable). Team focused on Guards and massive amounts of violence, presumably trying to win by killing everything that can score on the opposing team.

The Zz'or should not be a team. The species has no more place in the sport than tanks and rifles do.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 17:27:39


Post by: Buzzsaw


 AlexHolker wrote:
 scarletsquig wrote:
- Zz'or (hints at mind control implants/ captive breeding programs to make them usable). Team focused on Guards and massive amounts of violence, presumably trying to win by killing everything that can score on the opposing team.

The Zz'or should not be a team. The species has no more place in the sport than tanks and rifles do.


Uh, for people not up on Warpath background, what are the Zz'or? From that comment, I'm thinking giant bugs, maybe?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 17:52:33


Post by: Black Nexus


praying mantis, wasp-like aliens after speaking to alessio at the Open day.

interested to know what the Judwan are. looks like we might get Buzzcut today as well.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 21:31:39


Post by: RiTides


Sounds pretty awesome to me... will be watching with interest.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 21:31:47


Post by: scarletsquig


Buzzcut is in, DreadBall Season 2 .pdf for everyone up next at $200k.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/09 23:05:11


Post by: frozenwastes


Do we even know if the Zzor things are completely alien to the point of always being hostile? Or are they intelligent and capable of diplomacy?

One thing to remember about the Warpath universe is that it is a sci-fi universe that is not necessarily a dystopia full of endless war.

It's entirely possible that the hive intellect of the Zzor could carry out diplomacy with others and even join in their sports contests. There's no indication that this point that they are like the Tyranids.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 00:11:34


Post by: nkelsch


 frozenwastes wrote:
Do we even know if the Zzor things are completely alien to the point of always being hostile? Or are they intelligent and capable of diplomacy?

One thing to remember about the Warpath universe is that it is a sci-fi universe that is not necessarily a dystopia full of endless war.

It's entirely possible that the hive intellect of the Zzor could carry out diplomacy with others and even join in their sports contests. There's no indication that this point that they are like the Tyranids.


Yeah... I get a much different vibe from warpath universe where every alien is not out to murder your children's children. Not all 'bug' races are mindless killing races. The Zerg have overlords. Even Starship troopers had brainbugs which showed they had mental understanding on par with humanoid races.

Anywho, who Cares. If they look cool, I will accept a bit of cheeze fluff to allow a sports team in a war-like space future. Scientist mindcontrolling aliens, diplomatic Overmind, whatever!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 01:02:29


Post by: AlexHolker


 frozenwastes wrote:
Do we even know if the Zzor things are completely alien to the point of always being hostile? Or are they intelligent and capable of diplomacy?

A sport is a collection of mostly arbitrary rules, meant to shape the competition - the banning of the LZR Racer swimsuit is a useful example. If the Zz'or are more likely to cause injuries to opposing players, more expendable and less likeable, then they would be banned simply to prevent the sport degenerating into an all-Zz'or show.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 02:42:39


Post by: scarletsquig


 frozenwastes wrote:
Do we even know if the Zzor things are completely alien to the point of always being hostile? Or are they intelligent and capable of diplomacy?


Yes, always completely hostile, the Corporation blundered into an area of space avoided by all the other alien races and basically woke up a hornets nest which has been attacking systems ever since.

I know, kinda generic as far as background goes, basically Arachnids from Starship Troopers... but they're the only alien faction out of the first 8 Warpath races which isn't just plain "X fantasy race in space" as far as background/model design goes, so I'll take what I can get.

They can fit into DreadBall without any problem at all, you just need to get creative.. mind control via implants /pheremone control /training feral zz'or disconnected from the hive to do tricks (I watched Dr. Who play fetch with a triceratops last night, why not teach the Zz'or to play ball games too?) /the whole team actually being made from robots that look like zz'or.

Jake is taking the route of leaving this "creative explanation" open to interpretation and speculation in the official background rather than defining it, since odds are, no-one in the Warpath universe has any clue how or why Zz'or teams started showing up on dreadball pitches apart from the people who figured out how to put them there.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 06:22:33


Post by: Souleater


Or it might just be like Blood Bowl in being a slightly looser comic sub-universe.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 07:51:43


Post by: AlexHolker


 scarletsquig wrote:
They can fit into DreadBall without any problem at all, you just need to get creative.. mind control via implants /pheremone control /training feral zz'or disconnected from the hive to do tricks (I watched Dr. Who play fetch with a triceratops last night, why not teach the Zz'or to play ball games too?) /the whole team actually being made from robots that look like zz'or.

Jake is taking the route of leaving this "creative explanation" open to interpretation and speculation in the official background rather than defining it, since odds are, no-one in the Warpath universe has any clue how or why Zz'or teams started showing up on dreadball pitches apart from the people who figured out how to put them there.

You miss my point. This is not total war, where you bring whatever the hell you like and the enemy can suck it up if they disapprove - it is a sport, a game. A Zz'or team can only play Dreadball at the whim of the organisers, and it is in the organiser's best interests to ban them to avoid the damage Zz'or teams would do to the sport.

If you want them to play a role, they should be limited to Dreadball Xtreme, not the official leagues.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 09:31:46


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Dreadball could be a 'bread and circuses' style things

folk watch to see the blood and death, as well as the action, like Roman Gladiators.

We also don't know how 'limited' the Zz'or will be, maybe they have blunted spikey bits, helmets that cover their jaws to prevent biting etc, making their attacks no worse than those of a normal Guard


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 09:34:40


Post by: Zweischneid


 AlexHolker wrote:

You miss my point. This is not total war, where you bring whatever the hell you like and the enemy can suck it up if they disapprove - it is a sport, a game. A Zz'or team can only play Dreadball at the whim of the organisers, and it is in the organiser's best interests to ban them to avoid the damage Zz'or teams would do to the sport.

If you want them to play a role, they should be limited to Dreadball Xtreme, not the official leagues.


Then again, it tries to shoot for a bit of dystopian future vibe and players already die frequently in the game, from what I've read. Wouldn't be a stretch (and quite in keeping with the genre) to say "the organisers" just want to push up ratings by bringing in an ever more elaborate, ever more exotic, ever more bloody spectacle (which doesn't necessarily preclude the option - also in keeping with the genre - of having the whole thing go horribly, horribly wrong at some point).


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 13:00:26


Post by: scarletsquig


Orlando and Zwei have it right, the background in the rulebook mentions that alien teams are a huge ratings puller, and as such, the various Corporations that sponsor the teams will do anything to be the first to get a particular alien race on to the field, there is a large amount of money involved.

Bread and Circuses is spot on. Part of the appeal is that the dreadball pitch is the only place where most of the population can get a chance to see some of the more bizarre aliens that exist.

So, it's a combination of sports game, bloodsport and freakshow all rolled into one.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 14:20:47


Post by: Cyporiean


Remy's Blog has some nice pics of the Corp Teams greens.



More greens at the link.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 14:26:47


Post by: Alpharius


That looks very nice!

Getting more and more interested in this one... (damn!)


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:13:44


Post by: scarletsquig


Gameplay video is up, along with the next 2 stretch goals!








Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:17:47


Post by: Alpharius


I think that sometime between now and September 30th, I'll be in on this game!

Everything keeps getting better and better, and looking better and better!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:45:41


Post by: Manchu


Mass Effect fans will be pleased with these Geth miniatures.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:49:18


Post by: Commander Cain


Like Alpharius just said, I can see myself contributing soon, the goalie concepts look great!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:49:44


Post by: Buzzsaw


 Manchu wrote:
Mass Effect fans will be pleased with these Geth miniatures.


Well, at least we know what that team will be called. "Flashlights!"

Sigh... but they've got me know. Dangit.

Time to sell some old stuff...



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 20:51:23


Post by: Souleater


Forget drug addiction leading people into a life of crime...this bloody Kickstarter business needs to be bought to heel.

Sadly, I don't have the cash for all this awesomeness but it is really nice to see companies getting to make all this great stuff rather than having to drip-drip-drip models out to get enough cash to make the game.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/10 21:00:28


Post by: nkelsch


 Cyporiean wrote:
Remy's Blog has some nice pics of the Corp Teams greens.



More greens at the link.


This looks great. For some reason, this looks like a 'suit' where the warpath ones look like robots where the legs were so thin they couldn't have a person inside. Whoever is doing these sculpts is on point.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 02:46:18


Post by: AlexHolker


If we pass this stretch goal, we'll produce a Keeper model for the Trontek 29ers, Greenmoon Smackers, Skittersneak Stealers and the Midgard Delvers.

Is it really too much to ask that all five of the current teams get Keepers?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 02:52:23


Post by: timetowaste85


 Alpharius wrote:
I think that sometime between now and September 30th, I'll be in on this game!

Everything keeps getting better and better, and looking better and better!


I think tonight is a pretty good night to pitch in Alphy. You joining up just brings up the total amount closer to goalies getting in...you know you want to...join us...it won't be so bad...

.....brains....


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 02:53:06


Post by: Alpharius


No, and I can see that becoming a stretch goal sooner rather than later.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 03:15:51


Post by: RiTides


Timetowaste- I believe he was responding to Holker, not yourself


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 03:19:21


Post by: timetowaste85


 RiTides wrote:
Timetowaste- I believe he was responding to Holker, not yourself


Doesn't matter, I've been looking for an excuse to put a youtube clip in from that movie. I saw my moment of glory and I took it.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 07:08:11


Post by: The Strange Dude


Mmm I'm in on this kickstarter and it's cool but I'm not a fan of stretch goals that give you the option to spend more money that just isn't a reward. Would have preferred to see get one keeper of your choice free with the option to buy the others (at $5 a piece) should you choose to.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 12:20:31


Post by: Alpharius


 RiTides wrote:
Timetowaste- I believe he was responding to Holker, not yourself


RiTides is right - I was saying that I can see the additional goalie being added in as a 'stretch goal', and then about 2 or 3 pages of raging about how evil Mantic is for doing that as it was something they were going to do anyway!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 13:49:51


Post by: Black Nexus


what's going to tip you over the edge Alpharius? Why resist!

also, here's that new concept art for the Wyn Greth'zki model limited edition kickstarter MVP:


maybe keepers for the season 2 teams will be made available seperately like when the rest of the team has been sculpted. don't even know what the Female guard is going to look like yet let alone the z'zor, judwan or the robots.

@ Buzzsaw. there are still plenty of ways to get involved, even at visitor or guard and just pick yourself up a team or the rules. should be plenty of love for everyone


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 13:51:43


Post by: Alpharius


 Black Nexus wrote:
what's going to tip you over the edge Alpharius? Why resist!


Trying to decide if the budget can take another $200+ hit this month!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 18:48:33


Post by: nkelsch


Can I ask someone to do the math for me? If I want striker + all the non-striker models, how much does one have to pledge? Is it still right now that 150$ + 20$ will get you every team and every MVP?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 18:54:43


Post by: drazz


Striker gets you all 4 fisrt season teams, and all the add-ons, and all the MVP's (so far), and the rulebook, and the PDF of the 2nd season.

I think the only add-on after that (to this point) is the $20 for the female corporation team.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 18:59:53


Post by: scarletsquig


nkelsch wrote:
Can I ask someone to do the math for me? If I want striker + all the non-striker models, how much does one have to pledge? Is it still right now that 150$ + 20$ will get you every team and every MVP?


$170 currently. That will rise to $185 once the Keepers are added, and sold as a pack of 4 for $15.

Female team is being sold at 20% off RRP, Keepers are being sold at 50% off.

Worth noting that the $100 Jack level is still a very good deal for people who don't want to commit to putting a large amount of money into this, Mantic has made a pic for Jack level too:



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:01:02


Post by: Alpharius


Yes, that's the way I see it too.

Right now, 'only' spending $170 gets you everything miniature related.

But it is early, and there are 18 days left.

Plenty of time for way too many "For only $10 you get...this!" extras...!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:01:10


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


The keepers for the first 4 teams will be a pay only option ($15 i think) when unlocked


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:02:37


Post by: Black Nexus


@ Nkelsch - that's right they've been all the new MVPs into striker so if you go for the 150+20 for the girl team you'll get all of the models. oh, and the Keepers are an add-on too but you also get +2 girls in Striker meaning you'll have three teams of 10 and two of twelve. most of us expect at least the forge fathers and the vm to be raised to 12 by the end of the kickstarter.

150+20. If you want the keepers add +$15 and you'll get four models.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:10:23


Post by: scarletsquig


Of course, there's no need to get everything!

I'm personally just going to pitch in at guard level, which is also pretty cool if you want a bare minimal commitment/ are perpetually broke... you will still get digital copies of both the main rulebook and the season 2 expansion, as well as a team (which sometimes comes with a free MVP!), and a trophy mini.

So, everything you need to play a pick-up game with someone else who owns the board/ card/ counters (and there will be a lot of people with a copy looking for a game by the time this KS is over!).

For $30, shipped free to the EU and US, that's a pretty easy casual purchase decision to make.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:17:07


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 scarletsquig wrote:
Of course, there's no need to get everything!.


Now you KNOW that's not true

Kickstarter disease means you HAVE to get everything (even stuff you have no use for, like 28mm Leviathans, Plush toys with Breasts, or ratmen playing sport)

If you don't get everything how do you bribe the grim reaper ?

when your time comes, he takes bribes you know

play it safe, get it all


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:18:18


Post by: nkelsch


Cool, so looks like 185$ is the new magic number.

Are they going to have number transfers for modeling?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:18:58


Post by: Commander Cain


Orlando speaks the truth!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:22:12


Post by: scarletsquig


Of course, once you've made that tiny little $30 pledge, it becomes a lot more tempting and easier to increase it..


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 19:28:43


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


nkelsch wrote:
Cool, so looks like 185$ is the new magic number.

Are they going to have number transfers for modeling?


They said they are looking into transfers

If they don't come through have a look for N-gague railway decals as an alternative, Somebody worked out that 2.5mm high is probably right for single digits, and 2mm for double digits


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 21:58:32


Post by: coyotius


^^ Or we could do a mass order through Fighting Piranha:

http://www.fightingpirannhagraphics.com/

Edit...

actual number sheets are here:

http://www.fightingpirannhagraphics.com/misc.htm


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 22:55:10


Post by: DaveC


 scarletsquig wrote:


For $30, shipped free to the EU and US, that's a pretty easy casual purchase decision to make.


As far as I can tell shipping is only free to the UK and US unless you can point me in the direction of where it says EU is free and I'll happily drop the $15 shipping.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/11 23:07:30


Post by: Commander Cain


Yeah pretty sure it is just the UK and US they ship free to. The rest of Europe and us Canadians still have to pay!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 09:31:57


Post by: English Assassin


And keepers are in! Woot!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 10:18:28


Post by: reds8n


Boardgame Geek and mantic are doing a competition...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/855326/mantic-games-dreadball-contest-ends-sept-18th

from facebook


It's competition time! We've hooked up with Board Game Geek to give away one free Kickstarter Striker package (which is getting more and more stuff all of the time!) and five copies of DreadBall - The Futuristic Sports Game!

This once-in-a-lifetime contest ends on the 18th September - do not miss it!




Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 15:21:25


Post by: adamsouza


What frightens me most is that I knew the answers to all the questions

DId they ever take pics of the MDF board ?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 19:49:55


Post by: nkelsch


Love the Judwan... looks like the slender nimble team without having to resort to 'wood elves in space'.

Make it so!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 20:03:55


Post by: ironicsilence


the buy 1 get 1 free deal on season 2 teams might be putting me over the edge


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 20:12:07


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 ironicsilence wrote:
the buy 1 get 1 free deal on season 2 teams might be putting me over the edge



Well since you have to pay the full $25 (not the discount $20 a single team is for the KS)

its more buy one, get a second for $5 extra

but I'm in too


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 20:31:00


Post by: Black Nexus


judwan are ace!



and half way there until the Wyn mvp:



you guys got to help me out i need these models.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 20:38:17


Post by: adamsouza


$150 for striker
$25 for MDF board
$15 for Keepers
$50 for 4 season 2 teams (with extra players from striker)

Mantic is killing me

As for my qusetion about the situation with the MDF board
"We're launching the boards properly next week. We've done some work to the Hobby Hex-Board to include the rush and score track, as well as the subs bench and sin bin. You'll be able to use it as a second board "



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/12 23:17:48


Post by: scarletsquig


^ Don't forget your extra hex bases.

Glad to see "buy one get one free" make a return, it was a really popular addition to the KoW one.

Only for Striker pledgers this time around though, so no pledging $1 and then adding a team to get two.

It looks like one season is being made with every $200k of funding.

Hopefully we'll at least get to the end of season 3 with 12 teams unlocked by the time this is over.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 00:28:46


Post by: AlexHolker


No interest in buying the Judwan, but it looks fine for what it is. Mass Effect fans could probably turn them into Salarians just by resculpting the top of the head.

The buy one get one free offer only applies if you buy the four Season 1 teams, so that's still no use to me.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 00:32:15


Post by: Alpharius


 AlexHolker wrote:


The buy one get one free offer only applies if you buy the four Season 1 teams, so that's still no use to me.


Duly noted.

For the rest of us - where are all the BoGo offers listed?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 00:42:54


Post by: Black Nexus


@ Alpharius

currently it's only on adding the female corporation team to Striker ($25 would get you two teams), but the new stretch goal is for the judwans so that that'll be the second season 2 team. looks like a lot of peopl have just added $50 on the faith that all four teams will be created. $215 would get you eight teams, even more mvps, 4 keepers, and more models added to striker (cuz they're giving away two of each new team player into Striker as well and one at Jack going forwards).


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 00:50:53


Post by: sparkywtf


Darn you dreadball.... I wanted to build a new computer, but now it seems I get to add another 65 dollars to my pledge...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 00:51:21


Post by: Commander Cain


Mantic wrote: Wyn Greth’ski

Oooh, I get it! Wayne Gretzky. The hockey player! Was I a little slow on noticing that?

Anyway, I am seconds away from pledging so I need to got outside for a breath of fresh air so I can control my spending!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 01:12:52


Post by: Black Nexus


breathe Cain breathe! you'll feel for better for doing it


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 01:45:09


Post by: Commander Cain


I intend to do just that!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 03:45:09


Post by: coyotius


I see some potential Tau conversions using the Judwan.

Okay, so a tiny bit confused on the BOGO...the female corp team is listed as $20/$24.99 MSRP...so to get the free team you need to pledge the $25, correct?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 04:32:57


Post by: Buzzsaw


 Alpharius wrote:
 AlexHolker wrote:


The buy one get one free offer only applies if you buy the four Season 1 teams, so that's still no use to me.


Duly noted.

For the rest of us - where are all the BoGo offers listed?


In Update #33 they say;
Buy a team and get one free!

Add any Season 2 Team (starting with the Female Corporation) to Striker! for $25 and we’ll give you any other Season 2 Team absolutely free. If we get past Season 2 and onto Ultimate DreadBall or DreadBall X-treme, we’ll keep the deal rolling.

There are a few things to bear in mind:

- Offer only applies when you add a Season 2 Team to Striker! or above because of the postage involved (and we don’t want to charge more for something as dull as shipping!)

- You can choose from any combination of Season 2 teams (it can be two Female Corporation Teams or One Judwan Team and One Z’zor team for example)

- This offer does not apply to the “Season 1” teams - Skittersneak Stealers, Midgard Delvers, Greenmoon Smackers or the Trontek 29ers.

All of the teams will remain available individually at the special Kickstarter rate of $20. Check out our FAQ at the bottom of the front page for more details on how to add an Extra to your pledge.

Currently we’ve got one Season 2 team available (Female Corporation) and as Jake states, we’ve got a total of four planned for this expansion…with this being the next one!

$235,000 - The Judwan, Season 2 Team

Judwan - Alien Concept Art

The alien Judwan are unique in that they're probably going to be a team of Strikers - and they don't require a DreadBall Glove to catch the ball (well, this is the current thinking anyway, depends on the playtests!) If we pass this goal we will:

- add One Judwan Figure to Jack!

- add Two Judwan Figures to Striker!

- Make the Team available as a Buy One Get One Free!

Drive us on to great heights and get all 12 teams backed and available!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 06:52:33


Post by: MasterSlowPoke


I have no idea why they used the phrase bogo for something that isn't bogo. $5 for a second team is pretty good, no need to make it sound better than it is.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 07:00:09


Post by: Souleater


This also seems like a nice way of introducing the new races for Warpath.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 07:00:53


Post by: Azazelx


 scarletsquig wrote:
^ Don't forget your extra hex bases.


They really need to include the bases with the boxed set and the teams. Not doing so is just clownshoes. And I don't say this as a whiny entitled Kickstarter backer. 10 extra bucks or whatever isn't going to break my bank, but if Mantic want to be taken seriously (at a non-insignificant price point) they need to pull up their socks with this sort of thing. Particularly if DKH and PP already got lots of complaints about it.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 07:10:33


Post by: coyotius


 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I have no idea why they used the phrase bogo for something that isn't bogo. $5 for a second team is pretty good, no need to make it sound better than it is.


I agree. This could make for a confusing check-out when this is done..."do you want the $20 female corp team or the $25 female corp team?"


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 08:00:26


Post by: Black Nexus


the teams are $25 each so it's BOGOF.

If you want just the one team then you can get it at the reduced of $20 meaning if i was at jack and wanted to get a team there's also a deal that appeals to me and i'm being looked after as well as getting the mvp for free.

reducing it and then going bogof would have been mental.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 08:08:29


Post by: Zweischneid


 scipio.au wrote:
 scarletsquig wrote:
^ Don't forget your extra hex bases.


They really need to include the bases with the boxed set and the teams. Not doing so is just clownshoes. And I don't say this as a whiny entitled Kickstarter backer. 10 extra bucks or whatever isn't going to break my bank, but if Mantic want to be taken seriously (at a non-insignificant price point) they need to pull up their socks with this sort of thing. Particularly if DKH and PP already got lots of complaints about it.


Well, I wouldn't be too worried about the Hex Bases. You can 25mm Hex-Bases fairly cheap from guys like Chessex or from the Heavy Gear Blitz range.

http://wargameguru.weebly.com/review---having-good-hex-hex-bases-101.html

I'd love to see all models come with "official" Dreadball Hex, but if they don't, I'll likely just ebay those I get and buy (likely cheaper) Chessex Hex bases.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 08:35:14


Post by: Azazelx


Like I said, I'm not stressed about getting them for myself. It's the half-arsed impression that it gives for an expensive boxed set. For the BGG-type crowd, or once it hits the wider retail market, etc.



Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 09:44:37


Post by: Black Nexus


$7.50 isn't a lot for 44 bases IMHO and they have tooled them for us because we asked for them it sounds like it wasnt something they could do wtihout the funding support. theyre not even that necessary, just helps with facing from what I can tell.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 10:21:12


Post by: Azazelx



You're completely missing the point. Not sure how I could have made what I typed clearer, either.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 11:52:21


Post by: Pacific


Too much/not enough coffee again today Scipio?

Black Nexus - he is saying that something like that should be part of the basic model set, not something you should have to buy separately no matter how cheap. Going on some of the other Mantic models, while I wouldn't say it is 100% necessary, extra bases are something I wouldn't want to use them without.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 12:52:21


Post by: Taarnak


 scipio.au wrote:

You're completely missing the point. Not sure how I could have made what I typed clearer, either.


I get you man, and I agree. Adding them would have added another level of polish, and something for non-wargamers.

Glad to see the new concept art for the Judwan. It will be interesting to see how they end up in the larger Warpath universe too.

~Eric


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 12:58:21


Post by: Baragash


+1 to disappointed about the base situation


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 13:34:44


Post by: Sinphonite


Am I missing something, or is the full gameplay video mentioned in the five minute one non existant as of now? I'm getting a growing interest in the game, but would like to see exactly how it all plays out before dumping too much money into it.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 13:36:40


Post by: nkelsch


What's the point of a clear hex base when you have to put a plastic circle attatched to the model in it?

I would rather find some acrylic bases which are clear which i can cust the disc off and glue directly to it, and then have the disk have some cool effects like etched patterns. I was going to look into getting clear bases with position name on it or something.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 14:13:44


Post by: scarletsquig


^ If you want a cool custom solution, some of these from Warmill might work well: one design for each of Guard(the big hex)/ Jack (unlit hexes)/ Striker(lit hexes)/ Keeper (3 hexes, maybe with MVPs on the same base style as keepers so you don't end up with leftovers).


Etched acrylic, though, so expensive. You can pick what colour you want (translucent etc). They do custom jobs as well, so you could get proper hexes with team names done in whatever colour you want.

The clear hex bases mantic are making are a really good effort (and a small plastic disc on top of a clear base doesn't look as bad as you might think IRL) , but naturally there's always room for improvement.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/13 14:48:00


Post by: adamsouza


nkelsch wrote:
What's the point of a clear hex base when you have to put a plastic circle attatched to the model in it?


A quick and easy way to determine the facing of the model, with a board neutral, yet sci fi, look ?

Are they needed ? No.

Do they look cool ? Yes.

Are the reasonabley priced ? Yes.

Would they have been better if they were free ? Yes.

Am I complaining about them ? No.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 00:27:46


Post by: Commander Cain


I am in!

Was not fully sure how much I would need to pledge for the extra teams so I went for Striker and plan on adding more near the end. They could do with making a graphic for all the extras that can be bought as well as the Striker picture, would make things a lot easier!

Right, off to find a banner for my sig...


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 00:50:13


Post by: starwarslegacy


Mantic, how I love thee, I know you will not dissapint.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 00:52:07


Post by: adamsouza


Striker gets you the first four teams.
$50 additional would get you the four season 2 teams
($25 each for the first 2 teams and 2 free teams)


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 00:53:54


Post by: Commander Cain


 adamsouza wrote:
Striker gets you the first four teams.
$50 additional would get you the four season 2 teams
($25 each for the first 2 teams and 2 free teams)


Also $15 for the four keepers am I right? Pretty sure that would be all the models but I might as well wait till the end to get everything!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 01:08:48


Post by: adamsouza


You are correct. All the VMPs are getting tossed in as freebies with the Striker pledge, so for now $65 gets you the four season 2 teams and the Keepers.

Bear in mind, if the Kickstarter goes really well they haven't ruled out adding the 4 season 3 teams into the mix, which I suspect would be another $50.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 01:44:29


Post by: Commander Cain


The more teams the better I say!


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 13:01:46


Post by: PsychoticStorm


Anybody knows if they plan introducing the season 2 book as a hard copy either as a purchase or after season 2 closes because PDF are nice, but I prefer the dead tree version.


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 13:31:57


Post by: Sinphonite


Gave in and threw in for Jack, for now. If the wife'll go along with it, I'll push for striker and a few extras before time's up and we'll call it my Christmas gift.

Also: Anyone else get the theme music of the old Sega Genesis game Mutant League Football in their heads when looking over the Dreadball stuff?


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 14:26:22


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I've had a look at the MDF board as it stands

the UNFINISHED version looks exactly like the current acrylic one, but brown (as it's MDF) with very clear laser etching so if that suits you go ahead and grab one

However

Mantic are also putting together rush tracks, sub benches etc to add to it so the FINISHED version can be used as a 2nd stand alone board (they say probably tuesday before the can show the complete thing)


Mantic DreadBall Kickstarter - Completed! - 3 seasons fully funded! @ 2012/09/14 14:39:14


Post by: adamsouza


PICS or it didn't happen