Everyone hated on them because they were using KS as a cash grab for an imploding company that treated their staff poorly, a number of whom left or were fired, and posted/warned re: collapse and poor treatment
The threads are still around here... but basically there was a 130 comment thread about it on Table Top Gaming News where people were bashing it, former and current employees came out and said BTP did shady things, and then there were BTp employees calling others out... People started saying that BTP was gak and that people shouldn't support them, etc...
There were at least two 10 page threads around here
On topic: We're at almost 234k with three hours to go.
Basically, they were trying to take in funds (40,000 dollars!) to pay for a tons of minis that they would prepaint at varying levels of quality that they would sell on their website as full armies. In return, they were offering the rewards of some painting videos and (mostly) credit towards their painting services. Some ex-employees came out saying how bad they really were. Pledges started to hemorrhage. Then BTP said that "enemies" were trying to ruin them. Result: didn't even come close to making goal.
Was it a KS that was set up to pass (over $40k) and got driven down to failure by the hemoraging, or did that just ensure they never made it to the threshold?
Was it a KS that was set up to pass (over $40k) and got driven down to failure by the hemoraging, or did that just ensure they never made it to the threshold?
Kind of like the Through the Breach, where it started fairly healthy, except instead of stalling for a while, there was a pretty steady decline for the latter half.
Bah, I think I may have to balk at this one simply due to the other upcoming KSes I'm anticipating. Just doesn't seem to be anything specifically driving me not to wait until the retail release since nothing is KS exclusive that I'm that interested in.
cincydooley wrote: Bah, I think I may have to balk at this one simply due to the other upcoming KSes I'm anticipating. Just doesn't seem to be anything specifically driving me not to wait until the retail release since nothing is KS exclusive that I'm that interested in.
cincydooley wrote: Bah, I think I may have to balk at this one simply due to the other upcoming KSes I'm anticipating. Just doesn't seem to be anything specifically driving me not to wait until the retail release since nothing is KS exclusive that I'm that interested in.
Cheers boys!
*cough*don't back if you don't like it
Sorry to see you go man :( What other KS?
Honestly, I'm bracing myself for Wrath of Kings/Confrontation.
I'm really on the fence, because I want Hannah a lot. However, for me she's effectively a $75 model because I don't really need the other stuff beyond the books that she comes with. I already have Santana, so tha'ts not a huge driver, despite the fact that I know I could probably sell her on ebay, but I'm so lazy when it comes to that!
This is the reason I won't discount 250k being reached. The last 120 minutes (once that countdown hits minutes) is always a big moment. My estimation is we'll make at least 245k, but still have the capacity for hitting 260k. It all just depends on how big the burst is (which it won't be impressive. Add-ons are a big part of final pushes), but it'll happen.
True enough. It did have a few ten-thousands pledged. BTP wasn't a flat-liner like 20th Century @ War (which I admit I "backed" for 15 dollars just so I could ask a question).
Zweischneid wrote: True enough. It did have a few ten-thousands pledged. BTP wasn't a flat-liner like 20th Century @ War (which I admit I "backed" for 15 dollars just so I could ask a question).
1.75 MILLION for that board game, $300 a copy? I'm... just wow.
13k to go, it might come down to the wire, especially depending on how many people are inclined to drop to a 125 tier if we hit (or it looks like we'll hit) the Hanging Tree in those tiers as well. Well, versus how many 0-60's bounce up to 125+ for the same reason.
Could become a real yo-yo around 249/251 if we get in that range.
Zweischneid wrote: True enough. It did have a few ten-thousands pledged. BTP wasn't a flat-liner like 20th Century @ War (which I admit I "backed" for 15 dollars just so I could ask a question).
1.75 MILLION for that board game, $300 a copy? I'm... just wow.
Yeah, I think Mack is firing up another ustream around 5:30 EST. If that's been pushed towards 3PST that's 6EST, which means it'd start a little more than an hour before the close.
I agree that it'd be nice to see more Wyrd Official folks in the threads.
Stranger yet that this thread is fairly hopping, but the one on the Wyrd forums themselves has been pretty much silent today. Last post was, like, an hour ago.
I mean, I could change that myself, yes, but I mean actual chatter, not just spam for the sake of saying something.
Forar wrote: Yeah, I think Mack is firing up another ustream around 5:30 EST. If that's been pushed towards 3PST that's 6EST, which means it'd start a little more than an hour before the close.
I agree that it'd be nice to see more Wyrd Official folks in the threads.
Stranger yet that this thread is fairly hopping, but the one on the Wyrd forums themselves has been pretty much silent today. Last post was, like, an hour ago.
I mean, I could change that myself, yes, but I mean actual chatter, not just spam for the sake of saying something.
You were one of the last posts in that thread I'm busy discussing football in the off topic thread lol
Creator Wyrd Miniatures less than a minute ago
Salutations!
I'm on ustream and getting everything ready to bring this kickstarter to its close in a bit over an hour. So come join me! at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, apparently Mack said in the ustream that if we reach $250k, $225 backers will get something, as well as $125 level getting the tree
Creator Wyrd Miniatures less than a minute ago
Salutations!
I'm on ustream and getting everything ready to bring this kickstarter to its close in a bit over an hour. So come join me! at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, apparently Mack said in the ustream that if we reach $250k, $225 backers will get something, as well as $125 level getting the tree
Well that's us absolutely nothing.....the secretive part is killing them.
Yeah, the ambiguity means not being able to make an informed decision. I am less than pleased with this outcome, it's not like we haven't been talking about it being an issue for the last couple of days.
Makes the difference between the tiers "$100-111 for an extra set of books, a deck, the doll, and ??????".
It's not like we've talked about a LOT of issues surrounding this KS, Forar. I'm honestly suprised we've hit $240,000. I'm just wondering if this "suprise" is enough to warrant people bumping up to the $225 pledge level.
Breotan wrote: It's not like we've talked about a LOT of issues surrounding this KS, Forar. I'm honestly suprised we've hit $240,000. I'm just wondering if this "suprise" is enough to warrant people bumping up to the $225 pledge level.
No argument there.
Just surprised that nobody officially brought it up as needing a contingency. It's been mentioned on the KS comment page, here, and the Wyrd forums alike. Surely someone thought to ponder it aloud in a meeting.
Like, it's easy to be all cynical, "look at how this was run, of course that's the case lawl", but it just seems like something really obvious to figure out. It's a reasonable thing to ponder, and asking 450'ish people to go on blind faith is... well, I guess a step too far for me.
Also, the more I think about it, the less impressed I am that they couldn't be bothered to have Justin do a running tally. The whole point is to let people know whether or not they would be getting a Santana or not at the Core tier. To do otherwise, once again, expects people to back on faith.
Obviously, they can just fudge it and end up at that case, but if there's even a hint of that, why not just say "yeah, we got there" and at least drag some people on the sidelines in, unless they're concerned some people would drop from the 125 tier (which is the same "how many new/up vs down" issue going on with the tree).
That said, 40 min, 8k to go, the gaming room "bonus" may be a moot point.
I'm officially out at the last minute. After KD:M and with so much appealing about Rivet Wars now, with Wrath of kings to come, I'd rather wait. Enjoy y'all!!
RiTides wrote: It's gotten a good push, but unlike most campaigns it's nowhere near the push it had at the start.
Still, nice to see it get near 250K (even though it won't quite hit it) after all the good changes they made late in the game
Agreed.
It's been a rush.
And I have to thank all of you guys here particularly. You gave some good feedback, and it helped us push through a lot of the changes we wanted to make. I've always said criticism is a good thing: it shows that people care and it can only help to improve you.
When all is said and done, while I would have been ecstatic to hit 250, I'm happy we got as far as we did.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if they're busy phoning the henchmen they know got trees to see if they can buy them back to give out again
(and prevent them having to do a 2nd production run)
Except that Henchmen didn't get trees unless they bought them, so they'd be better off talking to regular people.
I suspect he's referring to the fact that they're more likely to have the phone numbers/email/contact info of Henchmen rather than that of "random people who might've bought trees".
But it's a moot point unless they were dangling trees without the 1500+ they'd need to meet that demand.
Lalochezia wrote: And I have to thank all of you guys here particularly. You gave some good feedback, and it helped us push through a lot of the changes we wanted to make. I've always said criticism is a good thing: it shows that people care and it can only help to improve you..
No matter the company, and how someone might feel about them, as long as the company listens to it's customer base, then you'll always know and be able to say, "At least we're not GW" I kid, but seriously this wouldn't be dakka if there wasn't a GW is bad comment at least once per page.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if they're busy phoning the henchmen they know got trees to see if they can buy them back to give out again
(and prevent them having to do a 2nd production run)
Except that Henchmen didn't get trees unless they bought them, so they'd be better off talking to regular people.
I suspect he's referring to the fact that they're more likely to have the phone numbers/email/contact info of Henchmen rather than that of "random people who might've bought trees".
But it's a moot point unless they were dangling trees without the 1500+ they'd need to meet that demand.
6k short, that's a pity.
To be fair, if they still have the shipping records, they have the contact info for all the people that bought them online during GenCon, and maybe even have the billing address info of those that made credit card purchases at the con.
Edit: Man, KS almost made a liar out of me by 55 dollars lol
Congratulations are definitely in order, nearly a quarter of a million dollars is nothing to sneeze at!
I'm going to look at the data and collect my thoughts (because I know you're just waiting with baited breath to hear my opinion ), this certainly has been a very interesting and thought provoking campaign.
Got out just five minutes before the end. If we had got the trees I would probably have kept it since I only wanted Santana but that was the only thing I really wanted from the campaign. Kind of hoping wyrd still give the tree anyway since it was so close but let's see. I just felt it was too risky since my economic situation can be bad or not depending on the answer I get from my funding.
Buzzsaw wrote: Congratulations are definitely in order, nearly a quarter of a million dollars is nothing to sneeze at!
I'm going to look at the data and collect my thoughts (because I know you're just waiting with baited breath to hear my opinion ), this certainly has been a very interesting and thought provoking campaign.
You mean you haven't said enough in this thread?
I'm always interested to see data come in about these things, and I'm sure your critical eye won't miss much
I wonder what the Gaming Room bonus would've been, had we hit that mark. Obviously we'll never know for sure, but now that it's purely academic, any chance someone might at least ballpark it?
Now I wonder who I need to bribe in the Warehouse to get one of those Malifaux tape measures 'dropped into' my box.
It was close, but I feel pretty good about the Gaming Room tier. Hook my friend up with a set of books, maybe work something out for a couple of the sprues (I know he and his wife will do awesome things with them and I don't need 4 all to myself), offset a bit of that cost. $200 for a set of books, all those minis and the tree is something I can live with.
They actually make more money if they dont hit 250 cause then they dont give away more free things. They'd have to get a goodways past 250 to make it worthwhile for them. So im not shocked they slow rolled it at the end.
Man, I was off by just over 1 grand on my minimum expected.
I'm really disappointed in not getting a tree, but there was just no way I could afford another $100. Still, 244k is a good run. Could have been better, but still a good run.
RiTides wrote: It's gotten a good push, but unlike most campaigns it's nowhere near the push it had at the start.
Still, nice to see it get near 250K (even though it won't quite hit it) after all the good changes they made late in the game
Agreed.
It's been a rush.
And I have to thank all of you guys here particularly. You gave some good feedback, and it helped us push through a lot of the changes we wanted to make. I've always said criticism is a good thing: it shows that people care and it can only help to improve you.
When all is said and done, while I would have been ecstatic to hit 250, I'm happy we got as far as we did.
SO THANKS ALL!!!!!!
...alright, back to the chat.
While I dropped, I still will be following this with close interest. If you want to blame someone for taking my money from you, you can yell at Tom with his unexpected introduction of Rivet Wars. I hope I get to see the beginnings of the at perhaps even adepticon! Cheers!
Forar wrote: I wonder what the Gaming Room bonus would've been, had we hit that mark. Obviously we'll never know for sure, but now that it's purely academic, any chance someone might at least ballpark it?
Now I wonder who I need to bribe in the Warehouse to get one of those Malifaux tape measures 'dropped into' my box.
It was close, but I feel pretty good about the Gaming Room tier. Hook my friend up with a set of books, maybe work something out for a couple of the sprues (I know he and his wife will do awesome things with them and I don't need 4 all to myself), offset a bit of that cost. $200 for a set of books, all those minis and the tree is something I can live with.
If you really want one I have one I can send you, bear in mind though it's not that impressive...
Forar wrote: I wonder what the Gaming Room bonus would've been, had we hit that mark. Obviously we'll never know for sure, but now that it's purely academic, any chance someone might at least ballpark it?
Now I wonder who I need to bribe in the Warehouse to get one of those Malifaux tape measures 'dropped into' my box.
It was close, but I feel pretty good about the Gaming Room tier. Hook my friend up with a set of books, maybe work something out for a couple of the sprues (I know he and his wife will do awesome things with them and I don't need 4 all to myself), offset a bit of that cost. $200 for a set of books, all those minis and the tree is something I can live with.
If you really want one I have one I can send you, bear in mind though it's not that impressive...
Yeah, it's just a nicer than average one of those little keychain tape measures. It was a nice gesture, but it couldn't be anything amazing, since they were giving them away...
Well I'm happy enough with the outcome of this kickstarter in the end and glad I kept this one and dropped KD:M. Shame we didn't get the tree though, but we know we'll be getting a nice book out at the end of this (I put in $125 - $158). It feels like we finished with good value for money.
Still slightly perplexed by the lack of simple extras, but hey ho (What's next?).
Unlike many posters it seems I'm now more drawn to playing Malifaux than I was previously, following this campaign. This is mostly because of the breachside chats, character creation video etc, which has made me realise I'm missing out currently on a very cool, dark (fortunately not too grimdark with skulls, well... a few) universe to explore.
Well, the only thing at the $225 level that interested me was the Tree. I grabbed one of eBay for $65 shipped and kept my pledge at $125. Compare that to how KD ran their KS and snagged $650 from me when I really didn't want to spend more than $150 initially. Nggghhh... still can't believe I dropped $650 on a board game. Man, I thought January would be reasonably easy on my wallet this year since I wasn't buying anything from Forge World. You certainly showed me, Mr. Poots. Well played. Well played, indeed.
I suppose the bright side is that there really isn't any need for a pledge manager with TtB since there weren't any optional extras involved. I just hope we don't have to get into a debate about who does and does not get the Miss Terious figures. "Oh, you did pledge early. Sorry about that. We'll get the figure out to you as soon as possible. Next year. Maybe."
Forar wrote: Now I wonder who I need to bribe in the Warehouse to get one of those Malifaux tape measures 'dropped into' my box.
If you really want one I have one I can send you, bear in mind though it's not that impressive...
Wow, that'd be really awesome, I appreciate the offer, and would be happy to work something out for it.
Basically, I just got into Malifaux (my first miniatures game) at the start of 2012, and have been using either a giant tape measure from my days in stagecraft or a cloth one for my one semester of costuming. Both get me mocked, but strangely I haven't been able to find the old school little ones at gas stations, hardware stores or anywhere else in town. It's one of those little things you see around hundreds of times, but the moment you actually try to find one. That, and I just haven't bothered to buy one from China on ebay.
Edit: now it's time to start ignoring kickstarter again. Between this and the magnetic terrain one ($70 going their way), I think I've put enough of a load onto the credit card for gaming stuff.
... and yet I keep checking back for the rumoured Palladium Robotech miniatures game one that might start up in the next few weeks.
recruittons wrote: I'm really disappointed in not getting a tree, but there was just no way I could afford another $100.
I mentioned it a few times, but you should've seen if anyone would've been interested in buying in with you. Have someone chip in $60-70 for the set of books and the tree would've cost you 30-40'ish, maybe less if you were willing to sell the doll and could find a buyer in your circle of friends/gamers.
Sort of brings us full circle back to the first few days when I continued to ponder aloud as to whether or not the top tier would be worth it if one simply sought to sell off most of the swag/bonus stuff just to pay for the cost increase. In the end I stuck with it, but I can see how for many it'd be a tough call to make.
New update from the TtB kickstarter. Forums are up and running.
Project Update #34: Through the Breach Preview Forums
Posted by Wyrd Miniatures
Salutations!
It's Mack, and I'm very excited to announce that the preview forums are now live! You will need to sign up with the same email you used for the Kickstarter, or else our automated process won't update your account to give you full access.
Getting full access can take up to 24 hours, but once you are in we'll be able to preview some fun stuff, and work together to make Through The Breach the fountain of awesome it deserves to be!
Idk if anyone else has been on there, I signed in last night to check it out. Things were certainly functional, but no one was in a usergroup yet, so we had very limited functionality lol.
The website that Breotan linked is free to join and anyone can do that, but the preview forums will only be open to people who backed the kickstarter, so the "General Discussion" forums will basically be the only thing to see...
Yes, it's a damn long thread to look through, but Wyrd stated that unless something says Kickstarter Exclusive then it will be available sometime in the future. Many things say Special Edition, means it'll probably show up during a holiday sale or around GenCon, the minis have no such tag, so they'll be available later
Nope they don't sadly, since there weren't any options available to be purchased, once pledges were locked in, that was that, no need for a pledge manager.
Okay, sorry for using a very old thread but there's finally a kickstarter update for TtB that I think some of you will be interested in.
Jacqulyn wrote:Project Update #41: Progress Update and Second Wave Beta
Hi everyone,
Today’s update is all about beta testing the RPG. As backers of the Through the Breach Kickstarter, we want your input!
Next Wednesday (Sept 4), Mack is launching the second wave of the beta, in which all Kickstarter contributors are invited to join - to provide feedback and to make your mark on the game you made possible.
We’ll have more details next week, with information on how to download the latest version of the rules and play with your group.
For those coming over from the first wave of testing, Mack plans to use you for early eyes on additional materials such as the Fatemaster's guide, but you'll be downloading your files using the links provided from this point on.
Before signing off, here’s one more thing for you: multi-part sprues! These are still in development, but we've included a preview of two sculpts to give you a taste of the many characters you'll be able to assemble.
‘Til next time!
Jacqulyn
EDIT: I just noticed they show a height of 38mm. WTF? Seriously, WTF? Did I miss that in the original KS description?
It's in line with the new plastics. Most model companies measure to the eyes for scale (so like it's 28mm to the eyes of a space marine or so). These measure to the tops of the head, so it's probably closer to a 35mm scale model (measuring to the eyes). Which is about right with the new stuff.
Also, the Malifaux fluff was fethed hardcore at GenCon thanks to the Canon Campaign
First flip of the first session of the canon campaign was the black joker, the failed to notice some things...
But because of their actions, they found out why Lucius wears a mask (he's unnaturally handsome), he's part neverborn and will be dual factioned in M2E. The dragon (tyrant in Sonia) escaped through the breach and was trapped for a bit in Alcatraz and... a few other things happened that I can't remember.
That sounds...really unfortunate. I have no idea why they thought that a bunch of non-writers winging it in a game would be good for the longterm narrative.
spiralingcadaver wrote: That sounds...really unfortunate. I have no idea why they thought that a bunch of non-writers winging it in a game would be good for the longterm narrative.
Because 1 lucky person won raffle, and the others had money, that's why it's a good idea?
A note about Lucius: Apparently he is sort of a creature that needs to be, the mask while hiding his amazingly handsome features also serves a purpose and status of the office. Much like Batman is a symbol (blah, blah, blah Dark Knight Rises), Lucius's mask thing left the parties involved with that storyline a few options as to what could happen. The first is that they returned his mask and saved the day, but learn his secret origins as a Neverborn (what they did), fail to return the mask and Lucius dies and a Lawyer takes his place becoming the new "Lucius", or a fated in the party puts on the mask, which immediately kills the old Lucius and that fated takes his place. This was apparently an option because one of the players was a huge fan of Lucius, and his actions would have mary sue'd all over the game
spiralingcadaver wrote: hmm :/ That sounds special. I hope they don't do any long-term damage, as Malifaux has one of the only game story lines I still enjoy.
I would assume that Cherufe, the Tyrant that started the whole Event that gave us Avatars being unleashed in our world for a hot minute might do some long-term damage.
While I might not enjoy some of the things that have happened, I do enjoy how play was described to me, and look forward to running a TtB game.
Something that's been bugging me since Tuesday's update went out.
The kickstarter says September fulfillment, Mack had said that he wanted to shop the books off to the printer after GenCon late August/Early September. The latest KS update says, Second Wave Beta Testing for the RPG is starting on September 4th... So, assuming we have what 3 weeks before the beta ends, that means the books won't be shipped to the printers until near the end of September, give to weeks for printing, fulfillment I don't see starting until October... And yet, they just keep moving along like this has been the plan the entire time. Love the art, love the world, love the ideas behind Malifaux and TtB, disliking Wyrd shooting themselves in the foot with this :-\
Breotan wrote: I'm at the point where I just forget about stuff till it actually ships. So many kickstarters, none of which has met a deadline yet.
I've backed only a handful of kickstarters, and all of them have been good about saying when things will be done, what's going well, what's going wrong. TtB is the only one that doesn't keep up on communication. I get that they're busy for GenCon, everyone other kickstarter I've backed that still has things outstanding for backers managed posts just before, during, and after the show. They have a dedicated office staff member that takes care of these things, so it just bugs me. I've had to find out from non-kickstarter sources about the delays in shipping and fulfillment.
Also according to the playtesters the game is barely halfway finished... *sigh*
I guess I'll chime in... I was in the group at Gencon that flipped the Black Joker...
First of all, Mack runs a great campaign! With the way he planned and ran it he really let the cards tell the story. When we flipped a Black Joker for the first flip of any of the groups in the campaign it couldn't have been planned any better. If I hadn't watched Mack shuffle the cards I might have thought that he stacked the deck... Needless to say that flip caused alot of problems for all three groups down the road. Because we failed the notice test so horribly our first real introduction into the game was of a coffin flying through the window of the bar and a Death Marshel steping out holding our struggling boss... The game went in some interesting ways from there.
To say that we really changed the Fluff of the game is a bit of a gray area. Basically the way it worked was that there were three open descision points in the fluff as it stands right now. One of them was what exactly is Lucious. Unfortunatly Mack never really told us what the other two groups had as their descision point. I can make some guesses but I won't know for sure until the book is out. Spoiler time...
Spoiler:
So basically Lucious wears a mask and it's never been explained why, I had always assumed it was a Phantom of the Opera kind of thing. Our boss killed Lucious and stole his mask, he was going to use it as a form of payment to get him back earthside. We find the mask and go looking for our boss. By the time we find him he has already been executed by the Guild. Short on leads I use my connections with the Family (I was fated to play an Ortega) to ask some questions of a Judge. He tells me that the Ten Thunders are rising and I need to go get my brothers and sisters. Still short on answers we return to the bar and have a run-in with Killjoy... After releasing Killjoy on a street full of innocent people were able to find some information that points us towards the house of a messanger. On our way to the house we are stopped at a check point, at this point a member of our group fails a willpower test and is forced to put the mask on... There is a fight, some guild guard, witchling stalkers and a lawyer are involved. We manage to pull the mask off our companion in time, I manage to calm things down, we give the lawyer the mask and together we head to the tower. We get into the room and see that Lucious is dead but he is beautiful, the perfect person. Anyone seeing his face falls madly in love with him. The lawyer places the mask back on him and he comes back to life.
Now here is what our campaign determined....
Lucious is actually Neverborn, but he isn't evil.... This will be explained in the book simply because I forget exactly why it works, but it does and it will reveal alot about the neverborn. So when his 2nd edition stats are released he will be duel faction. If we hadn't returned the mask a Guild Lawyer would have had to assume the role of Lucious and he would have stayed single faction. In addition since I was fated to be an Ortega the family is now sort of aware that not all of the guild can be trusted i.e. some of the guild is neverborn(Unfortunatly I was the black sheep of the Family and only Neno belived me.).
My character was called She "Guapo" Ortega, look for him in the fluff.
I had alot of fun in the campaign and I'm really looking forward to getting my copies of the book.
Mack explained at Gencon that they's like to do a second round of play testing for the game and that would take apporximatly 3 weeks. It looks like thats the direction he chose to go with, but other then that the books are pretty much done. Wyrd has always been pretty quick about getting books back from the printer which leads me to belive that they either print in the US or they airmail from China.
Kickstarters being late are the new norm and I don't really even think about it anymore.
If anyone has any questions about how the game plays I'll be happy to try and asnwer them.
Breotan wrote: I'm at the point where I just forget about stuff till it actually ships. So many kickstarters, none of which has met a deadline yet.
I've backed only a handful of kickstarters, and all of them have been good about saying when things will be done, what's going well, what's going wrong. TtB is the only one that doesn't keep up on communication. I get that they're busy for GenCon, everyone other kickstarter I've backed that still has things outstanding for backers managed posts just before, during, and after the show. They have a dedicated office staff member that takes care of these things, so it just bugs me. I've had to find out from non-kickstarter sources about the delays in shipping and fulfillment.
Also according to the playtesters the game is barely halfway finished... *sigh*
It varies a lot, some are definitely pretty poor with communication- TtB is on the low end but not the worst I've seen, regarding delays or communication.
Re: playtesting... I'm a little surprised about that taking so long... I guess I've never seen the testing process for non-competitive games, though
Part of the issue with their communication or lack thereof is that you basically have to go to the forums to hear anything, and generally in snippets from whatever is posted. It's there if you have the time to search (or even just find and read Mack's posts as a start), but it'd be nice if we'd at least gotten a juicy monthly "X is done, Y is underway, here's a teaser image from the book, blah blah" kind of update.
I have the same problem with the Robotech minis KS. They started strong with a ridiculous number of updates, then the campaign ended and they went silent for like 6+ weeks. Sure, if you read their little weekly mad-libs style news release you could glean a little here and there, but it would've been nice to not have to hunt and feel like I was fighting for every vague answer.
At this point I'd say a Sept release is right out, if we're lucky maybe we'll see it in Oct.
If the backer boxes are delayed by the stitched dolls, however, there will be rioting in the streets. EBO was bad enough for some in my crew...
Forar wrote: Part of the issue with their communication or lack thereof is that you basically have to go to the forums to hear anything, and generally in snippets from whatever is posted. It's there if you have the time to search (or even just find and read Mack's posts as a start), but it'd be nice if we'd at least gotten a juicy monthly "X is done, Y is underway, here's a teaser image from the book, blah blah" kind of update.
I have the same problem with the Robotech minis KS. They started strong with a ridiculous number of updates, then the campaign ended and they went silent for like 6+ weeks. Sure, if you read their little weekly mad-libs style news release you could glean a little here and there, but it would've been nice to not have to hunt and feel like I was fighting for every vague answer.
At this point I'd say a Sept release is right out, if we're lucky maybe we'll see it in Oct.
If the backer boxes are delayed by the stitched dolls, however, there will be rioting in the streets. EBO was bad enough for some in my crew...
Yeah, I understand they want us to use the forums, but I've not had much incentive to go there. Mack has his playtesters, and I'm barred from playtesting it until the "public" beta (i.e. all the backers on Sept 4th). And the few times I go there I see threads about why the hell are things being pushed back .
cincydooley wrote: Interesting to hear these new outcomes. Even tho I didn't end up backing this thing, still looking forward to seeing it come out.
It's alot of fun to play and useing the card/tarrot to create your character is really unique. You know where your character came from, you know vaguly where your character is going to end up, it's the bits in the middle you have control over.
I've backed 104 kickstarter projects. On my last count roughly more then half of them have been delivered. I've completly written off one project (Cairn).
I've come to realise a few things... 99% of Kickstarters are going to run much later then expected and regardless of how many times you ask a project creator to keep you updated most of them won't. The general feeling among project creators is that they don't want to bother their backers and if they have nothing new to report they just won't report anything...
If this project was put on by a first time company I'd be worried, but it's Wyrd.
My biggest concern, honestly, is that some of the folks in charge at Wyrd just don't seem to care about interacting with their customers. I went to their booth at GenCon during exhibitor only hours and felt like I was bothering them (not the demoers; they had a great demo team this year).
I dunno. It's been like that the past two years and its off putting to me, particularly since we've been involved with Wyrd since before they had a game and were a tiny booth selling a few miniatures at Origins.
cincydooley wrote: My biggest concern, honestly, is that some of the folks in charge at Wyrd just don't seem to care about interacting with their customers. I went to their booth at GenCon during exhibitor only hours and felt like I was bothering them (not the demoers; they had a great demo team this year).
I dunno. It's been like that the past two years and its off putting to me, particularly since we've been involved with Wyrd since before they had a game and were a tiny booth selling a few miniatures at Origins.
Personally I wouldn't draw any conclusions from interactions with vendors at gencon before the doors open... I don't know if you've ever been an exhibitor at Gencon but it's alot different of an experiance for an exhibitor then it is for someone attending it. When I've worked Gencon in the past all I wanted out of the hour before doors opened was to be left alone so I could get myself pulled together enough to make it through another 8 hour day of the public...
One of the things thats important to keep in mind about our hobby in general is that even the big players aren't all that big... Alot of times with these companies the same person has to wear alot of different hats and they get stretched pretty thing.
I agree with you though... Wyrd is definatly a much different company now then they were back when they started. Hell there was a time when they supported local events.
I was in the exhibitor hall and it was 8 am ;-). And honestly, it's really only one person, but that one person plays a pretty big role in the company and I've known him since that Origins all those years (6?) ago.
And that person is not Mack. Mack is always great to talk to.
The mini renders are making me very happy, I still like their models.
Is anyone grabbing the open play test rules tomorrow when they go live? I'm tempted to see how well it does over the internet as that is how I will most likely be playing TtB.
My crew and I have decided to just wait for the final result and play with those. As much as I've pushed them (gently) to give feedback to improve the game we get before it 'goes live', they seem kind of burnt out, especially after M2E (whom, as I'm contractually obligated to mention, a good portion of them hate), so I'm mostly happy they haven't thrown their hands up on the company entirely and am going to avoid poking the otherwise restless bear of their ire.
At this point, the thing I'd like most is an updated delivery estimate, since September seems completely unlikely now. Fingers crossed for October, but depending how far this round of testing goes into Sept, and the realities of printing, receiving and distributing 1,500 packages to backers, let's just say I'm not overflowing with confidence until we're told otherwise.
Hearing that there was a Hannah at Gencon, however, is heartening, and I'm actually kind of glad we keep seeing shots of the wicked dolls. Given how far back the plushie set Evil Baby Orphanages completed delivery (that is to say, everything past the base game), I'm glad to see signs that the plastics and other swag is either done or hopefully well on its way there.
Also nice to see them using the updates again. Honestly, there was a long period where I basically forgot about the campaign, so getting the occasional update was a pleasant reminder.
I have to admit I am a little jealous of your gaming groups. As the semi-official PE#1 at Wyrd (recently banned thank you) and outcast from my own group who are militant M2E fans, I would be really happy with a local group still playing Malifaux 1.5.
On the original topic, I am hoping for a mid-October delivery but expecting early November.
I have to admit I am a little jealous of your gaming groups. As the semi-official PE#1 at Wyrd (recently banned thank you) and outcast from my own group who are militant M2E fans, I would be really happy with a local group still playing Malifaux 1.5.
On the original topic, I am hoping for a mid-October delivery but expecting early November.
They actually banned you? Was this before their new forum rules were enacted?
My local group likes 1.5, but since the first few games with M2E, the entire thing has dirtied Malifaux for us. Since June we've played more 40k, Infinity, and Bolt Action than we had in the previous 6 months. We had a guy come in last Friday and asked us if we were setting up for Malifaux, and my buddy and I just kind of looked at each other and were like, "It's been easily 2 months since we've played Malifaux."
Has there been any word on Malifaux Classic? Or did Eric and Nathan shut that down?
Eh, 1.5 isn't doing so hot in my crew either. The vocal ones who hate 2.0 also don't want to 'play a dead system' (look, when you play tons of games that haven't seen an update in decades, you can suck it up!), and one of them has his entire collection for sale online.
So it hasn't been outright vetoed, but the last game was easily a couple of months ago. Part of that has admittedly been scheduling and space issues (we were all busy with Fan Expo prep), but even now that we're past those stressful times, even a passing comment that we should fire up a game or three on a Saturday meet up is met with crickets and (otherwise) silence.
At this point I suspect we're just waiting for Through the Breach boxes to arrive and maybe dabble in that for a bit before our Robotech miniatures boxes show up (assuming they actually come out in Oct/Nov as PB has stated is their tentative goal).
@Alf - yeah, on Sunday I was banned. I have a blog post about it coming out tomorrow with a screenshot of my most recent posts as well. It's pretty funny overall when you step back and realize just how petty the whole situation is. Oh well.
As for Classic, Eric was pretty clear (in my opinion) that he would pursue legal action if I kept trying to do anything. I left the forum up and its open for others to use but the effort on my part is dead. I don't need the headache, especially when people local to me are so militantly against it.
@Forar thats sad, if I remember reading correction you were pretty excited to start playing M2E. I have to admit that this seems to be one of the more divisive edition changes I have experienced. Typing that comment scares me since I watched the PP MKI/MKII change form the outside and have lived through a couple GW edition changes.
Sorry to derail the thread, back to the regularly scheduled TTB discussion. Is anyone excited about the public beta thats supposed to go live today? Are groups still chomping at the bit to play? I know locally I want to give it a try and see how things go. Some members of my old D&D group are really anxious to get back into a RP game and I offered to run some TTB when it releases to see how it goes.
nix2825 wrote: @Forar thats sad, if I remember reading correction you were pretty excited to start playing M2E. I have to admit that this seems to be one of the more divisive edition changes I have experienced. Typing that comment scares me since I watched the PP MKI/MKII change form the outside and have lived through a couple GW edition changes.
Eh, I've always been cautiously optimistic. However, that all started going downhill when two of my group lost their fraking minds when they found out a new edition was coming. They'd been burned on GW edition changes years before I met them, and apparently the stimuli/response was still quite strong. Even admitting it was heavily rooted in baggage from unrelated experiences, it basically killed Malifaux for our group overnight, and aside from a game here and there and some beta testing in June, it hasn't been the same for quite some time.
All joking aside (and there has been joking aplenty), if they pull this crap with what appears to be our next wargame, we're going to have much, much stronger words on the topic. Our collections certainly aren't/weren't the biggest out there, but personally, at a faction and a half, books, a battlefoam case, etc, I certainly hadn't expected all that money to essentially just sit on a shelf for the rest of eternity.
Sadly the secondary market for primed figures in the area and online seems to be small enough I'm not sure I can be bothered even listing my unpainted crews if I wanted to.
I retain some hope that we might get a 1.5 game going now and then, and there's the chance to use the figures in Through the Breach, but when I say it was a trying, stressful time for the crew, I'm probably understating it. I'm new to their shenanigans (2 1/2 years or so?) but they've known each other for 5-25+ years, and things started getting ugly for a while.
I'm hoping to rekindle some interest in 1.5 when I reclaim my den in the next few weeks, and hope that TtB will get up gaming in that setting again, which might help, but if Robotech delivers in the next few months it might all be for naught. When we only get together on Saturdays, there are only so many hours to squeeze games in, and something's gotta give.
nix2825 wrote: @Alf - yeah, on Sunday I was banned. I have a blog post about it coming out tomorrow with a screenshot of my most recent posts as well. It's pretty funny overall when you step back and realize just how petty the whole situation is. Oh well.
As for Classic, Eric was pretty clear (in my opinion) that he would pursue legal action if I kept trying to do anything. I left the forum up and its open for others to use but the effort on my part is dead. I don't need the headache, especially when people local to me are so militantly against it.
@Forar thats sad, if I remember reading correction you were pretty excited to start playing M2E. I have to admit that this seems to be one of the more divisive edition changes I have experienced. Typing that comment scares me since I watched the PP MKI/MKII change form the outside and have lived through a couple GW edition changes.
Sorry to derail the thread, back to the regularly scheduled TTB discussion. Is anyone excited about the public beta thats supposed to go live today? Are groups still chomping at the bit to play? I know locally I want to give it a try and see how things go. Some members of my old D&D group are really anxious to get back into a RP game and I offered to run some TTB when it releases to see how it goes.
Old DnD Group? I.e. Gymnogyps and her husband?
I'm still excited to play. While some of the major decisions that the Canon Campaign at GenCon were given haven't really made me joyous (see Catyrpelius's post on the previous page), the descriptions of the game he gave me at GenCon make me want to play. I haven't downloaded the public beta yet, but I probably will just to give it a perusal. And while I doubt I'll be able to play until it's actual release, the public beta might give me the time to get things going with my Pathfinder group or to find some people locally to play.
Looking through Mack's Through the Breach Beta 09-04-13 Opening Post, I will probably give this a better look through throughout the day. There's no NDA on this stuff, but talk about the playtest is being asked to remain on the Playtest forums (nix, have you been banned from there too? )
Initial Thoughts: Layout quality has that Malifaux feel to it. It looks as if the book will literally be ready to go to the printers as soon as all of this stuff is done and Mack puts his final touches on it, so this bodes well with me. This is literally just the player's guide. There are no chapters dedicated to being the FateMaster, though much like other games this isn't the unheard of. I had assumed that with Mack's work on FFGRPGs he would have included a basic chapter on the Fatemaster's job so that someone can start with this book and buy into the Fatemaster's Almanac. Inclusion of Critical Effects shows Mack's involvement with FFG's RPG games (no biggie, just an observation)
Running myself through character creation: Cross Roads Tarot Spread (in order you draw them): 11 of Crows, 12 of Rams, Red Joker, 7 of Tomes, Black Joker.
nix2825 wrote: @Alf - yeah, on Sunday I was banned. I have a blog post about it coming out tomorrow with a screenshot of my most recent posts as well. It's pretty funny overall when you step back and realize just how petty the whole situation is. Oh well.
I look forward to reading about this - always interesting to see what's what on other forums, though Official Forums tend to be quite a bit more...sensitive about things.
nix2825 wrote: @Alf - yeah, on Sunday I was banned. I have a blog post about it coming out tomorrow with a screenshot of my most recent posts as well. It's pretty funny overall when you step back and realize just how petty the whole situation is. Oh well.
I look forward to reading about this - always interesting to see what's what on other forums, though Official Forums tend to be quite a bit more...sensitive about things.
You can check out a few things about his issues with Wyrd's staff since the M2E announcement in the M2E thread on his blog the Dead Tau Project, There was this post over on the Malifaux Classic site (i.e. trying to make a fan maintained living ruleset of the Malifaux 1.5 rules), and I believe he talks about it in his podcast the Gamer's Lounge.
Edit: Alph, the blog post in questions is up on his Dead Tau Project blog.
A new message from the KS. Part 2 of the Beta has begun.
Project Update #44: Through the Breach Beta Part 2: Launch!
Hi everyone,
The second part of our Through the Breach Beta has launched, and as honored backers of this project, you're invited!
Use this link to download the Beta files and start playing. By accessing these files, you are agreeing that you will not disseminate these files and you will not share them with anyone except those with whom you will be testing the materials contained within. <snip>
Here are some notes from Mack to help you get started!
Salutations Everyone!
So here is an unofficial first look at the Backer-Beta! You'll find a link to the TTB Fated Almanac here, which is enough for you to get started playing! Soon the Fatemaster's Almanac will also be on it's way, but for now this is what I'd like us to focus on.
Some notes, however, that you'll need from the Fatemaster's Almanac. The Rank Bonus for NPC's is as follows:
Peon 3
Minion 5
Enforcer 7
Henchman 9
Master 11
That probably won't make much sense to most of you right now, but basically that is the "auto value" of the card the NPC is considered to have flipped (as the Fatemaster doesn't flip cards). Secondly, your bestiary is currently the M2E creatures. The Fatemaster will need to "go with what feels right" when it comes to skills (for now) as those full stats are coming in the Fatemaster's book. Don't worry if you don't have M2E cards/book. You can use M1.5, just remember that model = character, and 1" = 1 yard. It's pretty straight forward! You'll also notice some spots in the book where things are going to go, those will be getting added in over the next week or so, as I respond to your feedback and such. So feel free to begin discussing the rules here in the preview forum. There isn't an NDA in effect here, but I will ask that discussion on this topic be confined to the preview forums here. The game is a work in progress, and I've got a lot of work to do! If I have to start spending time managing the community it's going to really slow me down!
I'm getting antsy waiting for this thing to go live. I missed the KS, and it appears everyone that actually backed it is being honest and not leaking the material (please read this as "I want a bootlegged copy so I can start playing this awesome looking game NOW, and I will ABSOLUTELY buy it when it hits print," not "I want a bootlegged copy so I don't have to pay for this game.")
Matney X wrote: I'm getting antsy waiting for this thing to go live. I missed the KS, and it appears everyone that actually backed it is being honest and not leaking the material (please read this as "I want a bootlegged copy so I can start playing this awesome looking game NOW, and I will ABSOLUTELY buy it when it hits print," not "I want a bootlegged copy so I don't have to pay for this game.")
Even if you wanted a bootleg copy so you don't have to pay for the game, it wouldn't matter. The playtest documents are pieced so that you still need the full game to play. I can't actually finish my character atm because the Shopkeep Pursuit isn't in the document.
Matney X wrote: I'm getting antsy waiting for this thing to go live. I missed the KS, and it appears everyone that actually backed it is being honest and not leaking the material (please read this as "I want a bootlegged copy so I can start playing this awesome looking game NOW, and I will ABSOLUTELY buy it when it hits print," not "I want a bootlegged copy so I don't have to pay for this game.")
Even if you wanted a bootleg copy so you don't have to pay for the game, it wouldn't matter. The playtest documents are pieced so that you still need the full game to play. I can't actually finish my character atm because the Shopkeep Pursuit isn't in the document.
When I was reading the update from Mack (quoted above), I was worried about that. Is that one of the Tarot results?
nix2825 wrote: @Alf - yeah, on Sunday I was banned. I have a blog post about it coming out tomorrow with a screenshot of my most recent posts as well. It's pretty funny overall when you step back and realize just how petty the whole situation is. Oh well.
I look forward to reading about this - always interesting to see what's what on other forums, though Official Forums tend to be quite a bit more...sensitive about things.
Justin, tell Mack I'll give him cookies if he puts the Shopkeep Pursuit into the next beta release of the TtB playtest docs, Alfy's gotta finish up his character
Matney X wrote: I'm getting antsy waiting for this thing to go live. I missed the KS, and it appears everyone that actually backed it is being honest and not leaking the material (please read this as "I want a bootlegged copy so I can start playing this awesome looking game NOW, and I will ABSOLUTELY buy it when it hits print," not "I want a bootlegged copy so I don't have to pay for this game.")
Even if you wanted a bootleg copy so you don't have to pay for the game, it wouldn't matter. The playtest documents are pieced so that you still need the full game to play. I can't actually finish my character atm because the Shopkeep Pursuit isn't in the document.
So what? Pick a different pursuit or were you fated to be a shopkeep? Although thinking about I'd think it pretty unlikely that you'd be fated into a pursuit as pursuits are ment to be changeable at the start of every session.
Matney X wrote: I'm getting antsy waiting for this thing to go live. I missed the KS, and it appears everyone that actually backed it is being honest and not leaking the material (please read this as "I want a bootlegged copy so I can start playing this awesome looking game NOW, and I will ABSOLUTELY buy it when it hits print," not "I want a bootlegged copy so I don't have to pay for this game.")
Even if you wanted a bootleg copy so you don't have to pay for the game, it wouldn't matter. The playtest documents are pieced so that you still need the full game to play. I can't actually finish my character atm because the Shopkeep Pursuit isn't in the document.
So what? Pick a different pursuit or were you fated to be a shopkeep? Although thinking about I'd think it pretty unlikely that you'd be fated into a pursuit as pursuits are ment to be changeable at the start of every session.
I've put him into a different pursuit atm (Pioneer), but would like to see how my character concept in my head fleshes out on to paper.
Thats the thing though with the method of character creation that Through the Breach uses. Your not 100% free to chose what your character will ultimatly be.
You know roughly how your character came into the world. In my group at Gencon I was born in the Family, one of the players was born into the Ten Thunders, we had somone who was born into a cart driving family, etc...
You then know roughly how they made it in life up to this point, i.e your stat flips. If I remember correctly your stat flips were really to the extremes so you probably have a bunch of (+3) and a bunch of (-3). So while your really good at some stuff you have some pretty major drawbacks, maybe you lost a limb, were injured or beaten as a child or you got burned...
You also extremly vaugely know where your going in life, extremly vaugely... Your fated... The Fatemaster is then going to build a story around a groups fate, each session will focus on the fate of one player character. But that fate is up to the Fatemasters interpritation.
What I'm trying to get at is that this is a game that better favors a character played to the story then it does to a player with a preset character in mind... If that makes some sense...
Catyrpelius wrote: What I'm trying to get at is that this is a game that better favors a character played to the story then it does to a player with a preset character in mind... If that makes some sense...
I'm not sure if I mentioned here or in the PT forums, but my character evolved from the outset (sorta). I started character generation without an idea in mind, I said let's see what the crossroads gives me. I ended up getting Artist as my station and then I flipped +3/-1/0/-2 for my physical aspects and threw them like so: Might: 0, Grace: -2, Speed:-1, Resilience: +3. When I first flipped the station I was thinking, "He's the son of artists, probably a weak little thing, perhaps he's got a good resilience to chemicals from working around those things?" And then I was like, "What if instead his parents were sculptors and he gained a lot of his girth from having to move blocks of stone?" From there I picked up my physical skills like Pugilism and Toughness. My thoughts were, "maybe he got into a lot of fights as a kid, or a teenager, but I'm sure he built up some of his strength from hauling stone." And then I flipped a decent spread for my Mental Aspects and then flipped the Black Joker for mental skills and spread them out to thinks like bartering, appraise, homesteading, and a few other skills (since the Black Joker meant I had a very broad education).
So as I'm sitting here looking through the pursuits, I'm like. "Well my guy could probably build things for people like fences, tools, whatever they need to survive outside of Malifaux City." So I had set on Pioneer to start me off with. Then as I was looking at talents and other aspects of character creation I looked back and saw that Shopkeep was an option for a pursuit, and I felt that it was perfect to the character that I had slowly built in my head through character creation. It's the complete opposite of how I do character creation in other games as I generally go in with an idea based on party needs. I don't mind that Shopkeep isn't in the playtest doc, I'd just like to see what it does so I can feel better about the character that was molded in front of me?
For those who don't check their updates very often;
Hi everyone,
Today, we have two pieces of news to share. First, we want to officially announce that we have decided to delay our estimated delivery date. As stated in the Kickstarter, we initially hoped to have your rewards shipped and in your hands by the end of the month, but we think that a complete and well-tested product is more important than the on-time delivery. We're choosing to invest more time in Through the Breach now so that you can enjoy the game more when it's in your hands.
That brings us to the second piece of news. Along with the extra time to make everything just right, Through the Breach is getting an extra infusion of content. This means that both books will be bigger - with more art, more writing, and clarified rules. Over the coming weeks, we’ll continue to hear your feedback in the Beta, and we’ll launch updates to keep you abreast of our progress as we continue Through the Breach.
Thank you,
The Wyrd Team
Now, as I've commented on the campaign and update pages, some context on how much longer we're looking at would be awesome, if just a quarter. Q4 2013 I wouldn't mind terribly, but pushing into 2014 I'd be less excited for.
I'm all for taking the time necessary to test the game, gather feedback, and make appropriate changes, and kudos for noting that we'll be getting bigger books with more art, fluff and whatnot. It'd just be nice to finally checkmark a second 'big' campaign off my outstanding Kickstarters (since the first, Shadowrun Returns, got my physical rewards to me last week).
Forar wrote: For those who don't check their updates very often;
Hi everyone,
Today, we have two pieces of news to share. First, we want to officially announce that we have decided to delay our estimated delivery date. As stated in the Kickstarter, we initially hoped to have your rewards shipped and in your hands by the end of the month, but we think that a complete and well-tested product is more important than the on-time delivery. We're choosing to invest more time in Through the Breach now so that you can enjoy the game more when it's in your hands.
That brings us to the second piece of news. Along with the extra time to make everything just right, Through the Breach is getting an extra infusion of content. This means that both books will be bigger - with more art, more writing, and clarified rules. Over the coming weeks, we’ll continue to hear your feedback in the Beta, and we’ll launch updates to keep you abreast of our progress as we continue Through the Breach.
Thank you,
The Wyrd Team
Now, as I've commented on the campaign and update pages, some context on how much longer we're looking at would be awesome, if just a quarter. Q4 2013 I wouldn't mind terribly, but pushing into 2014 I'd be less excited for.
I'm all for taking the time necessary to test the game, gather feedback, and make appropriate changes, and kudos for noting that we'll be getting bigger books with more art, fluff and whatnot. It'd just be nice to finally checkmark a second 'big' campaign off my outstanding Kickstarters (since the first, Shadowrun Returns, got my physical rewards to me last week).
I read the update a efw times to see if I was missing something... I guess I wasn't.
Announced more beta files. Not sure if you meant that, or the content of the beta files. If the latter, sorry, can't help as I haven't been keeping up with it.
Kind of disappointed that we still haven't even gotten an updated target release. Yes, yes, "when it's done", but it'd be nice to have context as to whether or not this is merely a month or so to finish up some ongoing works, a quarter, or "2013 is looking unlikely".
Some kind of ballpark, basically. The apparent reluctance to give one is... less than heartening. Sure, they need time to release a product they're happy with, but the busy year they've had is of their own doing.
Having just gone through the bulk printing process, it takes at least a couple weeks to print (there's drying time between printing and binding) and a couple to ship (options are pay out the ass or ship it by boat), so it'll be around a month between when the files are absolutely complete and when Wyrd can start shipping them.
Add to this there'll be time between when they get the last beta testing and when they're ready to print.
I'd expect around 2 months from when the beta is closed unless Wyrd's staff and their printers are very fast.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I'd expect around 2 months from when the beta is closed unless Wyrd's staff and their printers are very fast.
M2E books were at the printers about a month or so before GenCon, were sitting in Wyrd's dev offices in California with at least a week before GenCon (I believe it was closer to 2 weeks before the convention).
I put a 3 week timetable on getting it to the printers, printed, and shipped back to Wyrd, and probably another 3 to 5 weeks to get everything shipped out.
spiralingcadaver wrote: How does that line up with when the beta was closed? Sorry, kind of burnt out on testing games so I didn't participate in Mali's.
In the M2E news and Rumors thread, lalochezia (Justin) mentioned that he had a copy of the M2E rules on his desk since August 1st (he posted on August 7th and said he'd had it since the previous Thursday), and by a tweet from Justin's twitter, the M2E book seems to have been shipped off to the printers right around July 18th at the latest, which means that they had a turn around time of 2 to about 2.5 weeks (assuming the last bit of playtesting ended on July 14th or so).
At a cursory glance of the tiers, they're also making around 3,700 books (counting the 2 in 1 special edition as a single book, though obviously it'd be larger, not sure how that would affect the printing process). Around 3k Fate Masters/Fated Guides and 750'ish Special Editions, if it matters.
I have no idea how that number compares to the books they printed off for Gencon and online sales, but they did run out in 4 days, and I don't think there were anywhere near 4k books being sold.
So, even if we bump production and initial shipping up to a month (Oct), if they wrapped up in the next few weeks it's not impossible to see them at least start going out/arriving in November. While I'm not sure RPG sales are as dramatically affected as many other product lines are with the holidays, getting them to backers in Nov and to retail in Dec probably wouldn't hurt if they could manage it.
But it's also possible the game needs another 3 months of playtesting and polish.
Forar wrote: At a cursory glance of the tiers, they're also making around 3,700 books (counting the 2 in 1 special edition as a single book, though obviously it'd be larger, not sure how that would affect the printing process). Around 3k Fate Masters/Fated Guides and 750'ish Special Editions, if it matters.
I have no idea how that number compares to the books they printed off for Gencon and online sales, but they did run out in 4 days, and I don't think there were anywhere near 4k books being sold.
So, even if we bump production and initial shipping up to a month (Oct), if they wrapped up in the next few weeks it's not impossible to see them at least start going out/arriving in November. While I'm not sure RPG sales are as dramatically affected as many other product lines are with the holidays, getting them to backers in Nov and to retail in Dec probably wouldn't hurt if they could manage it.
But it's also possible the game needs another 3 months of playtesting and polish.
They brought 5,000 copies of M2E with them to gencon....
For whatever reason Wyrd gets a really fast turn around on their books from their printer.
I ordered M2E from the web site during Gencon and got it pretty quick. Any delays releasing to stores would seem to be a marketing issue and not a supply issue.
Matney X wrote: How's the Beta stuff looking? Have they released the beta Fatemaster stuff, yet?
Haven't gotten the chance to take a look in a few weeks. My interest has really dropped off without a solid release date.
There was a new beta update last week (and yesterday it seems), so far no fatemaster stuff has been publicly released. The people testing FM stuff are bound by NDAs.
I was keeping myself and my crew abreast of the beta fairly early on, but as the months dragged on the interest waned. Most of them just want a finished product we can play with, but while they respect said quality can take time, the lack of a release date (even a target) has garnered some grumbling as well.
Apples and oranges as they may be, some bitter mockery based on the massive delays Evil Baby Orphanage faced have definitely come up.
October is obviously a write-off, so now it's Nov, Dec, or "sometime before the Sun goes nova and wipes out all life on this planet".
Forar wrote: Apples and oranges as they may be, some bitter mockery based on the massive delays Evil Baby Orphanage faced have definitely come up.
October is obviously a write-off, so now it's Nov, Dec, or "sometime before the Sun goes nova and wipes out all life on this planet".
Yeah, at least with EBO they said, "We're unhappy with x, y, and z so we're going to push it back 3 months." (and it was 3 months) With this though, it's when it's done, it's done. And I doubt we'll get it in November I'm seeing December/January at the earliest.
Oh, no doubt. Unless it goes to print tomorrow even November is a pipe dream. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
But at the same time, accusing them of an at least two month delay when it's only the middle of October seemed a bit extreme, so I erred on the side of being charitable until given further reason to do otherwise.
Forar wrote: Oh, no doubt. Unless it goes to print tomorrow even November is a pipe dream. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
But at the same time, accusing them of an at least two month delay when it's only the middle of October seemed a bit extreme, so I erred on the side of being charitable until given further reason to do otherwise.
I would have been fine if they had said, "Hey we're going to push it back x months so we can get this gak right because you all paid for a quality product and we're going to give it to you." Which they did... But they didn't put a timeline on how far they're pushing it back. It's fine if you're going to push it back I get that about kickstarters, I'd just like to know the timeline besides, "when it's done"
I guess as a non-backer, I'm not as irritated by how long it's taking. When it's something I can finally get my hands on, I'll be happy. In the mean time, we'll just keep playing Pathfinder / WoD / Whatever.
Matney X wrote: I guess as a non-backer, I'm not as irritated by how long it's taking. When it's something I can finally get my hands on, I'll be happy. In the mean time, we'll just keep playing Pathfinder / WoD / Whatever.
Of course not, you've got no money invested in the game yet
I mean I suppose I shouldn't be complaining about this kickstarter since I'm still waiting on my Endless: Fantasy Tactics kickstarter, though the OTL team has said my box will be the last box shipped out.
I think it's just those two and Deadzone I'm waiting on.
I've backed into 5 KS's for anything resembling a decent chunk of change (over $50), this one is the second highest (Gaming Room tier), significantly behind the robotech minis KS earlier this year, so while I try to be patient, yeah, having $270 (after S&H) wrapped up in this one does mean I'm a bit antsy.
Of the other 4, one is on time (Dwarven Forge), one is estimated at a month delayed (Robotech, but I'm skeptical), one has delivered (Shadowrun, 8 months late) and the other is a work in progress (another terrain KS from January, currently 7.5 months late).
6-8 months delayed on $50'ish isn't as big a deal. Annoying, but meh. "At least 2 months... maybe" for significantly more seems to have gotten to me more easily. I think it's the ambiguity that really makes it irritating. Surely if they can project 9 months out when the target is, they know how far they are, and thus how much is left to be done. Like, at a glance, surely there's some king of ballpark between "we're crossing the t's and dotting the i's, it'll be a couple more weeks" versus "look, the FM guide is half done and we've had to revise 3/4 of the Fated Almanac, 2013 might be optimistic..." and somewhere in between.
At least Wyrd's present in their own forums -- Raging Heroes can't seem to answer emails or FB posts (I didn't back that one either, but it was because I couldn't afford the shipping at the time).
Are they at least making progress, or has the project gone stagnant?
Yeah, 11 months late isn't easy to swallow. I know that feeling, Shadowrun Returns was 8 months late, and I backed that.
However, there are also different reasons for being delayed. I don't know much about Ogre, but the Shadowrun folks were quite upfront about it being a massive undertaking, and that the excess funding allowed them to expand the scope of the game considerably, including free DLC that's supposed to be due out in a few months.
Contrasted with TtB, which was certainly successful, but even with the expanded scope their tune was still "oh yeah, we're aiming for an August release at Gencon" and then "work in progress, no further target date".
As of July an update stated they were 'still on track', and it wasn't until August 9th (literally weeks before Gencon) that they sent an update out admitting it wouldn't be ready. Given that we're now nearing the end of October without a light at the end of the tunnel, it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that they knew it simply wasn't going to happen for some time (we're talking more than just crossing some t's and dotting some i's), which means that either it didn't occur to them to update us, or they wanted to keep it quiet until they had to say something, since those participating in the Gencon canon campaign needed information at the very least.
It wasn't until September 10th (again, only weeks left on a looming deadline) that they again fessed up that further delays were necessary.
Now, credit where credit is due, they've managed to have a small update (a little art, a little note here and there) every week or two for the last 3-4 months, but the lack of even a target remains kind of glaring.
I know a lot of artists and even backers firmly support "it's done when it's done", but I typically reserve that for companies like Blizzard and Valve, whom generally don't have my money until a target is set anyway (and barring a few exceptions, they generally don't miss those dates).
I'm sure Mack is doing a lot of hard work, but as with any creative endeavor, they have to wrap it up and kick it out the door eventually. Even with their magical printing company working on it, October is obviously a writeoff and every week that goes by makes November look less likely. Every beta update is a nice reminder that they're still working on it, but the Fatemaster's Guide remaining in closed beta means it's hard to judge whether this project is nearing completion or merely half done. Mack says the ongoing M2E beta won't be interfering with his work, and yet I recall his efforts being thanked and appreciated greatly at the close of M2E wave one.
And yeah, I'll admit that part of my frustration stems from tossing them a chunk of cash. From here on it's going to have to be a pretty damned solid project to get much more than $30-50 out of me, those I don't sweat nearly as much as I've been keeping tabs on this and the Robotech miniatures.
But all of this beta stuff was supposed to be concluded by August with Mack even stating that he hoped ton have it done and sent off to the printer's as soon as he got back from GenCon, of not by September 1st at the latest...
Weekly beta updates that they don't alert us to until half a week later shows they're still having problems communicating with backers. Not all of us check the playtest website because nothing new really goes on there. I understand they want to control the information that is released,but right now, there isn't much reason to go to the playtest site.
Yes, they are being slow, but I'm still waiting on stuff from Wild West Exodus (I only bought 3rd party stuff, too!), Tablescapes (2nd qtr 2014 if I'm lucky), Raging Heroes (I expect to see new Bretonnians first), Kingdom Death (been nearly a year now), and Deadzone (I just want the terrain which means I'm probably last).
So, yes, I take a "fund and forget" attitude toward all kickstarter projects anymore. Really, you almost have to. :/
I've backed 16 projects to date, and while a month or two isn't the latest I've been involved in, I don't think it's worth simply glossing over those that are behind, doubly so for those with shoddy backer communication.
The vast majority in the $5-75 range are generally fund and forget.
That top tier, however, was significantly out of my "impulse buy, don't care when it shows up" range. $300'ish (after S&H) isn't a paltry sum of disposable income.
That's the wonderful catch-22 of having a forum. "Oh, I don't go there because no one else posts there."
My expectations for the project were shaped by Traveller 5th edition, Ogre, and Bones. In other words: Every dollar past that funding limit is another thing that's going to make the project late. And the only projects that I've seen come in on time have been projects paying for webcomic print runs, or the one guy with the laser that just doesn't want to take any production risks.
By now you should be adjusting your expectations to "This project is bigger than we thought it would be." Not having deadlines is better, in my opinion, than making up deadlines that get continually missed.
solkan wrote: That's the wonderful catch-22 of having a forum. "Oh, I don't go there because no one else posts there."
Plenty of people post there, but none of it answers the questions I wish to have answered, while admittedly are selfish, they are questions I have (namely, when the feth will I get my game!)
solkan wrote: My expectations for the project were shaped by Traveller 5th edition, Ogre, and Bones. In other words: Every dollar past that funding limit is another thing that's going to make the project late. And the only projects that I've seen come in on time have been projects paying for webcomic print runs, or the one guy with the laser that just doesn't want to take any production risks.
By now you should be adjusting your expectations to "This project is bigger than we thought it would be." Not having deadlines is better, in my opinion, than making up deadlines that get continually missed.
Note that we didn't get the funding breakdown until 2 weeks of the campaign had passed, and nearly 75% of their funding had been accrued (in hindsight).
And more to the point, they didn't actually deign to tell us that they were going to have to delay the September delivery date until September 10th. If they were really and truly buried in work due to 'dramatically exceeding their target' and expanding the books/figures/etc, that should've been quite clear long before the due date loomed 3 weeks away.
Glancing back through the updates, as of July 3rd (a mere 6 weeks from Gencon) they were supposedly 'on track for delivery'.
Evidently that train got seriously derailed somewhere between July 3rd and September 10th.
I find it interesting (I'm not saying it's wrong, just interesting) that people kind of treat Kickstarter like a preordering system, when in reality there's absolutely no guarantee that the product will ever get made. IIRC, that includes not being held to any sort of accountability toward backer rewards.
The fact that Wyrd is saying ANYTHING, and updating weekly, still tells me that your money will eventually be used for the product you backed.
Eh, here's to hoping it's sooner than later. I want to legitimately pay them for the game, not keep scraping 4chan for leaks. (Speaking of which, it's update day, isn't it?)
Matney X wrote: I find it interesting (I'm not saying it's wrong, just interesting) that people kind of treat Kickstarter like a preordering system, when in reality there's absolutely no guarantee that the product will ever get made. IIRC, that includes not being held to any sort of accountability toward backer rewards.
The fact that Wyrd is saying ANYTHING, and updating weekly, still tells me that your money will eventually be used for the product you backed.
Eh, here's to hoping it's sooner than later. I want to legitimately pay them for the game, not keep scraping 4chan for leaks. (Speaking of which, it's update day, isn't it?)
1) Wyrd most likely didn't need the kickstarter to create Through the Breach considering they had hired Mack (lead designer) 4 months before the Kickstarter began, it simply allowed them to move capital set aside for Through the Breach to other Malifaux/Wyrd Games projects (maybe part of the reason we're getting things like Showdown, Kings of Artifice, and *shudders* Jetpack Unicorn).
2) I went into this project knowing that my money would get put towards the project and I would get my backer reward by the time of fulfillment (because I figured they had learned from their first kickstarter), and if it didn't there are ways to get a refund from Wyrd/Kickstarter should I choose to do this. Believe it or not, the bigger companies get more flak if they fail than the smaller companies, so Wyrd cannot feth this up in the eyes of their backers.
3) Wyrd wasn't updating weekly (and even now you generally have to wait a few days before someone realizes there was an update on the forums) until they did the open beta for the game, it was maybe once a month if we were lucky, and like it's been stated, even up until a month before GenCon, everyone was being told the project was on track for end of September fulfillment.
Also, no updates this week because Mack is busy changing layouts.
Matney X wrote: when in reality there's absolutely no guarantee that the product will ever get made. IIRC, that includes not being held to any sort of accountability toward backer rewards.
While Kickstarter themselves have very clearly absolved themselves of any requirement to go after errant creators, I would apply this more to "asked for 2 grand, got 5, some guy in a basement" style project. Wyrd may not be a titan of the industry, but taking a quarter of a million dollars from backers and saying "oops, didn't work, too bad" would be a rather massive blow to what community and consumer interest they do have. Their experience and professionalism were touted during the campaign as reasons for the backers to have confidence they'd do what they said they'd do.
I don't think anyone is concerned that the Wyrd crew are going to blow out of town and live it large on a tropical island with 220 grand or so (after KS and Amazon took their cuts), but when a company gives a release target, and then has terrible communication with backers regarding it, and then proceeds to let it fly by with little more than a "oops, not ready, we'll get back to you eventually...", I don't think it's unreasonable to get a little bit antsy.
And let's also keep in mind that this wasn't one of those "half the people are in for $10-20" campaigns either.
Remember that Wyrd ran a pretty messed up KS campaign, too. It was one of the more puzzling ones I've seen and if it weren't Wyrd, I wouldn't have backed it. Their behavior now just seems par for the course.
I think everyone expects Wyrd to deliver, it's just the lack of updates in conjunction with the slipped deadlines that make it tiresome.
Breotan wrote: I think everyone expects Wyrd to deliver, it's just the lack of updates in conjunction with the slipped deadlines that make it tiresome.
Bingo!
Also since the playtest site was workblocked back in like mid September, it's become a fething hassle to do a quick drop in and see what's new.
I mean, they continue to release beta stuff, which is available through the appropriate venue, but it's a little sad that 2 months after they told us they'd miss September, we still don't even have a tentative target.
So much for "What is the release date?
We put September 2013 in order to give us enough time to get things right, but our goal is to actually deliver it sooner without breaking any promises or dates. We want to put the best product possible together and take the time to do so, and we feel it will actually come together quicker, particularly with the support we are receiving here, but we don't want to fall short of expectations."
'It's taking longer because we don't want to compromise quality' seems to be the go to defense of KS campaigns everywhere, and it's getting old.
Between this and Robotech, I'm thinking that the first sign of a Kickstarter campaign to be wary of is that they're 'optimistic for an early delivery'.
Also that I'm not allowed to put in more than ~$50 anymore. Going in for $270 (or... significantly more for Robotech) makes me far more anxious/cranky about delays.
Shadowrun at $65? Didn't bother me in the least that it was delayed 8 months.
Well, with the exception of Dwarven Forge, whom delivered on time, if not a little early. Those guys I'll cheerfully trust with a solid chunk of change.
The closest thing to an update is that Mack is slowly releasing chapters of the Fatemasters Almanac to test and look through, though they are extremely rough, which makes me wonder what the closed beta players have been doing since September when he sought their help after the open beta on the Fated Almanac was started.
There hasn't been an update on the Fated Almanac in about 2 weeks, which makes me think that there will be one final thing (maybe) before that is considered done. If the Fated Almanac's timeline is anything to go by for the Fatemaster's Almanac, then we might not see anything for two more months or so. *sigh*
Everyone can expect March at the "earliest." New Backer's Only Update went out. I'm quoting the part that everyone might care about (as everything else is playtest files)
Production Update: We expect testing to be completed within the next 4 weeks, after which we'll be creating the print materials and sending the books to production. That means a late first quarter 2014 release. We appreciate everyone's patience and help making this game the best possible. We'll keep you updated as production moves along.
So... a 2013Q3 delivery date has just become 2014Q1, possibly Q2... *sigh*
I'm not happy about a 4.5 month delay (6 months total), but I'll remain cautiously optimistic they can have it out by March. If testing really is ending in mid December, that's 3 1/2 months to finish up, edit, finalize layout and get it to the printers.
Given some of the requests made and information released on the backer forms (what we've been reading/testing, for example) I'm not surprised it's close to being 'done'. I'm guessing that production slows to a crawl around the holidays like most other things, but given the rapid turn around on M2E's book for Gencon, it's not impossible for them to fire it off for production and have giant stacks of them laying around a month later.
Forar wrote: I'm not happy about a 4.5 month delay (6 months total), but I'll remain cautiously optimistic they can have it out by March. If testing really is ending in mid December, that's 3 1/2 months to finish up, edit, finalize layout and get it to the printers.
Given some of the requests made and information released on the backer forms (what we've been reading/testing, for example) I'm not surprised it's close to being 'done'. I'm guessing that production slows to a crawl around the holidays like most other things, but given the rapid turn around on M2E's book for Gencon, it's not impossible for them to fire it off for production and have giant stacks of them laying around a month later.
Kickstarters are notorious for that. I've seen very few that deliver on time. But in general, I've been pleased with the results once they come in.
Forar wrote: I'm not happy about a 4.5 month delay (6 months total), but I'll remain cautiously optimistic they can have it out by March. If testing really is ending in mid December, that's 3 1/2 months to finish up, edit, finalize layout and get it to the printers.
Given some of the requests made and information released on the backer forms (what we've been reading/testing, for example) I'm not surprised it's close to being 'done'. I'm guessing that production slows to a crawl around the holidays like most other things, but given the rapid turn around on M2E's book for Gencon, it's not impossible for them to fire it off for production and have giant stacks of them laying around a month later.
Kickstarters are notorious for that. I've seen very few that deliver on time. But in general, I've been pleased with the results once they come in.
They are indeed notorious for that, but Wyrd is one of the only companies I've seen that have done a kickstarter, delayed it by 3 months, and then not learned from their prior mistakes. Mantic has gone with the waves of shipping to get the base product out on time with some of the extras and then get the other stuff out a few months after. CMoN has gotten things out in a timely manner with the exception of Relic Knights, though we'll see how Wrath of Kings works out. Does anyone know how Jetpack Unicorn was taken care of? Their backers got that dumb game on time right?
I expect an RPG would have a way higher amount of work go into it than a board/card game, and they may not have compensated properly. Well, obviously they didn't, but I expect that's a lot of it. Well, and their decision to revamp Malifaux during the same period.
And yeah, thought jetpack unicorn looked pretty terrible- I really would like to like their little games, because I'm really getting into little one-shots, but I can't stand their style.
Puppet wars had nice illustration but not great minis or rules, then I felt pretty burned by the re-release having no print only option after dumping $200 or w/e into that game and receiving none of the support/expansions promised after the launch. Things have gone downhill from there...
spiralingcadaver wrote: Puppet wars had nice illustration but not great minis or rules, then I felt pretty burned by the re-release having no print only option after dumping $200 or w/e into that game and receiving none of the support/expansions promised after the launch. Things have gone downhill from there...
That has pretty much been my experience with them in 2013. Nothing they released really caught my attention, not even the long awaited aHoffman, and then with the changes to Malifaux not sitting well with me, I haven't touched a Wyrd product in months. Shame really considering they were like my "you have to check these guys out" company for a year+
Forar wrote: I'm not happy about a 4.5 month delay (6 months total), but I'll remain cautiously optimistic they can have it out by March. If testing really is ending in mid December, that's 3 1/2 months to finish up, edit, finalize layout and get it to the printers.
Given some of the requests made and information released on the backer forms (what we've been reading/testing, for example) I'm not surprised it's close to being 'done'. I'm guessing that production slows to a crawl around the holidays like most other things, but given the rapid turn around on M2E's book for Gencon, it's not impossible for them to fire it off for production and have giant stacks of them laying around a month later.
Kickstarters are notorious for that. I've seen very few that deliver on time. But in general, I've been pleased with the results once they come in.
They are indeed notorious for that, but Wyrd is one of the only companies I've seen that have done a kickstarter, delayed it by 3 months, and then not learned from their prior mistakes. Mantic has gone with the waves of shipping to get the base product out on time with some of the extras and then get the other stuff out a few months after. CMoN has gotten things out in a timely manner with the exception of Relic Knights, though we'll see how Wrath of Kings works out. Does anyone know how Jetpack Unicorn was taken care of? Their backers got that dumb game on time right?
Jetpack Unicorn, IIRC, was also a game mostly completed when it was brought to Wyrd by a third party.
As for the Gencon/M2E/TTB issue, it's obvious that they hoped to get all both products out, but realized when it came down to crunch time that only one would be finished. They made a hard call, and put all their resources into something that could be finished in time. I can't fault them for that.
They're a small business. They don't have the resources of GW to get a third party to complete ther work for them, or to have someone has a social media person. Yes, it sucks being on this end, but at least we get to preview the game, and have a role in its creation via the Beta. I get to test drive the entire rules set prior to it being released to the world. That's fairly good communication in my book.
Valhallan42nd wrote: Kickstarters are notorious for that. I've seen very few that deliver on time.
That doesn't excuse overloading ones plate, and given that they knew M2E was going to go live this year and most of the backers didn't, it's not our fault they had to prioritize at all.
They could have put TtB off another year until M2E was mostly settled, but they chose to do both at once, so no, I can't cut them much slack for how difficult it must be to attend to both lines, plus whatever Jetpack Unicorn asks of them, and Evil Baby Orphanage, and Puppet Wars, and Showdown Icons, and Kings of Artifice, and whatever else they have on their plate (no showing from Terraclips, but who knows what is or isn't going on behind the scenes).
Valhallan42nd wrote: Kickstarters are notorious for that. I've seen very few that deliver on time.
That doesn't excuse overloading ones plate, and given that they knew M2E was going to go live this year and most of the backers didn't, it's not our fault they had to prioritize at all.
They could have put TtB off another year until M2E was mostly settled, but they chose to do both at once, so no, I can't cut them much slack for how difficult it must be to attend to both lines, plus whatever Jetpack Unicorn asks of them, and Evil Baby Orphanage, and Puppet Wars, and Showdown Icons, and Kings of Artifice, and whatever else they have on their plate (no showing from Terraclips, but who knows what is or isn't going on behind the scenes).
Hindsight is infallible. Foresight is less so. They are guilty of over-ambition, and perhaps poor communication. But I think if you've seen the beta files, you'd agree the system is fairly interesting, even if it's been delayed.
Working on a brand new product the size and complexity of an RPG while launching M2E alone should've given them pause.
Bluntly put, they knew they had an "omg gigantic and super complicated" project on the horizon.
And then started a second one.
And they'll likely be delivering on that second project soon.
Dream forge models slipped about six months to a year, Mantic had huge delays, and Secret Weapon slipped as well. Big projects like this don't ship on time. There are unexpected delays and sometimes resources have to be shifted (just like Dreamforge got shifted in favor of Malifaux production at WGF). While I'm disappointed it's not out just yet, I know it's in good hands. Backers can play it now. Backers can help fix its minor problems. Backers know it's almost done.
From where I'm sitting, a backer has a right to disappointment, but not to the level the internet echo chamber seems to be ramping it to.
Working on a brand new product the size and complexity of an RPG while launching M2E alone should've given them pause.
Bluntly put, they knew they had an "omg gigantic and super complicated" project on the horizon.
And then started a second one.
And they'll likely be delivering on that second project soon.
Dream forge models slipped about six months to a year, Mantic had huge delays, and Secret Weapon slipped as well. Big projects like this don't ship on time. There are unexpected delays and sometimes resources have to be shifted (just like Dreamforge got shifted in favor of Malifaux production at WGF). While I'm disappointed it's not out just yet, I know it's in good hands. Backers can play it now. Backers can help fix its minor problems. Backers know it's almost done.
From where I'm sitting, a backer has a right to disappointment, but not to the level the internet echo chamber seems to be ramping it to.
March 2014 is not what I would consider "soon" especially when we were all told that 1) Mack was hired to develop the RPG, and that 2) "soon" was slated for end of September.
Dreamforge was pushed back due to someone else's project getting in the way and was not their fault that they got pushed back, and the people that are backers are upset, but are understanding with it because it's not Dreamforge's fault. Mantic has figured out their issues with Kickstarters, and now do everything in waves so people will get the basic stuff and everything else trickles in (they learned their lesson), Secret Weapon has slipped, but not 6 months of slip. But this was not an unexpected delay because they assigned their RPG lead dev to work on M2E in addition to working on Through the Breach, so they likely knew the repercussions of their actions. You also have to remember that the Through the Breach Kickstarter ended early January of this year, Mack didn't start open beta for 9 months after the end of the kickstarter, and had closed beta 5 to 6 months after the end of the kickstarter, we were told that the game was functional shortly after the project ended, and that he was looking to start playtesting with backers as soon as possible. Backers can now play, but up until two weeks ago Backers could not feasibly run a game because we did not have access to the Fatemaster's Alamanac. As a backer, I have little idea of where the project is because they've dropped the ball on communication. An update goes out, and 3-4 days later an email gets sent out saying that there has been an update. So by the time you get the announcement half of the week has disappeared, and we've got a few days to look over the rules see what's changed, and get our group(s) together.
Am I happy that I finally have an 'end date' in sight? Somewhat, but I'm still not happy about the time between July 3rd and when this update went out. July 3rd is where they dropped the ball, when an update went out saying everything was looking good and Mack (the same day) said that TtB won't be available in time for GenCon, and that he wouldn't be sending the stuff to the printers by late August/early September, which meant that an end of September fulfillment was unlikely. Honestly, I'm half tempted to ask for a refund simply because I've been extremely dissatisfied as a backer, and Dakka seems to be the only place I can voice such displeasures because the few threads I've seen on the playtest forums about disliking the delays have been met with stiff resistance about those that are happy to drink the provided flavor-aid.
I think the important thing to realize is that being upset online isn't going to make the project going any faster, and if it will make you happy, you should ask for a refund. Because being happy is more important than waiting for something that is making you unhappy.
How many two volume role playing game projects has Wyrd produced? I backed Mark Miller's Traveller 5, that shipped about six months late (and technically is still missing two promised rewards), and in a perfect world should probably have gotten a few more months work done on it. And that was Mark Miller doing an RPG book.
I would much rather wait until July (or later, if necessary) if that will result in a well edited product for this project.
Alf, 100% hear you on expressing frustration without modes or fanboys jumping on you... I'm not at that state of frustration on their RPG, but went through a nearly identical experience with PP (small that I'd always recommend, to occasionally play and no love towards them, due in large part to attitude).
I guess it's easier for me since I really didn't back this for the RPG. I chose the "bunch of miniatures" pledge and have enough of a backlog to last. Those minis better have M2E rules with them, too.
Not a joke. The rulebook was part of all pledges but the pledge "ladder" was split into a miniature-loaded one (dining room) and a "special edition" books loaded one (living room).
I wanted (and pledged because of) all the cool multi-pose models, Hanna, LE Santana, and the Hanging Tree.
solkan wrote: I think the important thing to realize is that being upset online isn't going to make the project going any faster, and if it will make you happy, you should ask for a refund. Because being happy is more important than waiting for something that is making you unhappy.
Nope. That's an awfully short sighted, black and white way of looking at things.
Won't apologize for feeling that a company should set realistic goals and communicate delays in a timely fashion. Wyrd set September as the goal, they even one-upped it with the "Look, we totally hope to ship in August even, totally!" in the FAQ, there was no reason to believe they'd blow past their initial timeline by half a year until the timeline itself was up. No way of knowing a whole second revision of the fraking game system would eat up most of 2013, or that they were planning to expand their brand name by another 4+ projects. Or that they wouldn't even let us know of the delay until a few weeks from the delivery date, not to mention being confident of a timely delivery a mere 2 months before that.
Bluntly put, they've had my cash for 11 months now. I don't want it back, I want the product they received the money for. Apparently we're nearly 3/4 through the wait, might as well put in those last 4.
solkan wrote:I think the important thing to realize is that being upset online isn't going to make the project going any faster, and if it will make you happy, you should ask for a refund. Because being happy is more important than waiting for something that is making you unhappy.
I like RPGs, I like the world of Malifaux, but I do not like how this project has been handled. So I've been balancing how much do I want these books vs how displeased I am with the campaign as a whole.
How many two volume role playing game projects has Wyrd produced? I backed Mark Miller's Traveller 5, that shipped about six months late (and technically is still missing two promised rewards), and in a perfect world should probably have gotten a few more months work done on it. And that was Mark Miller doing an RPG book.
Wyrd has produced 0 roleplaying games, but Mack Martin has worked on a number of games, with several RPG books to his credit. He was hired as lead RPG developer. With that being said, I felt that a Wyrd RPG was in good hands and as such had no reason to believe that Wyrd, a company I promoted in my local play scene as an awesome company, and an RPG writer with a proven track record of solid games would not provide me a product within the time period in which they said they would. All of this was before they added Kings of Artifice, M2E, Showdown Icons, and Jet Pack Unicorn to their line. At the time that I pledge and the time that this campaign ended, I only knew that Wyrd was going to work on the RPG, and Book 5, and that Evil Baby Orphanage was about to finish fulfillment (on time). EBO's stretch rewards were delayed for 3 months due to that plushie, but the main game was in my hands on time and I had played it several times, and was okay with what I was experiencing. Wyrd is a major player in the Table top gaming world and they should done a better job communicating their issues, they should have started the open beta months before they did, and they shouldn't have put Mack on M2E in addition to his TtB duties. Say what you will about him being able juggle both developer jobs, but 1 of 2 things had to happen.
1) Quality suffers on one product in favor of another's success. Malifaux is Wyrd's bread and butter, they certainly couldn't let quality suffer, and so Mack's efforts were probably focused on helping with M2E's rollout. He said that this meant longer days in the office as he had to work on both M2E and TtB. So Mack probably let the quality slip on TtB, and now they're back pedaling to get everything back up to speed and in working order.
2) Development of one game basically stops while they shift their attentions to M2E. This is the most probable case as Malifaux is there main line, and it became an all hands on deck sort of thing. There is nothing wrong with this, but we're paying for it now and it's frustrating as all hell to be a backer of Through the Breach to see this game get pushed back for one reason or another, reasons that don't seem to be very big reasons.
The thing that ultimately bugs me about the M2E and TtB timeline is that M2E went from open beta to the publishers to a finished product in the same time frame that we've had our open beta for Through the Breach. 2 months and a half months. Now I know that M2E was discussed late last year (as Nix has mentioned he was involved in that process somewhat), and that they had a closed beta going on for several months prior to their announcement of M2E, but during that same time period, people could have been testing Through the Breach. If I was given the playtest files in March instead of September, then I would have had 6 months of time with my RPG group with which I could have been testing this game. Things change, groups fall apart, and now I'm sitting here with playtest files that are freakin' useless to me because my RPG group has died and I don't have anyone to test it with. I know that a poster has mentioned that we have a playable game, yeah, but if I don't have people to play with, then it doesn't really mean jack gak. Think about that, 6 months of open beta (for the backers). Now I know that the first playtest call went out on in early March, but because it wasn't the 'open beta' we were all expecting, and NDAs had to be signed. Unfortunately I'm in some weird legal grey area in that while I've done work for a game company, I was not employed by them, and thus couldn't participate in the that call.
If there don't seem to be any more delays, then I hope I get my stuff so I play something that will have been more than a year in the making...
Breotan wrote:I guess it's easier for me since I really didn't back this for the RPG. I chose the "bunch of miniatures" pledge and have enough of a backlog to last. Those minis better have M2E rules with them, too.
I would assume that Hannah does come with M2E cards because she doesn't have a 1st edition counter part. The Hanged and Santana do have Malifaux counterparts, but they were sealed in plastic when they were selling them/giving to Henchmen, so the only answer I have is probably not, but a hopeful maybe (for those that want M2E)
I guess it depends on how much stock they have on hand. I was expecting another production run to meet KS requirements. If they go that rout, they could put in new cards. But they probably won't. :/
Or they could just include Santiago / Hanged / Guild Guard M2E cards with their respective boxes. Don't really need to open up the boxes just to toss in the appropriate cards.
Not that I care either way; what little interest my crew has in the game is aimed at 1.5, not an arsenal deck between us.
Just sayin'. No need to get out the exacto knives if they want to have 2.0 cards sent out. With the standardized card size, a 'penny sleeve' and a piece of tape would do fine.
Unfortunately, there's been no answer from wyrd if the oversized Hangedare legal in 2nd edition. Hoping that they are, though, since it seems poor form to release models that became illegal because of how long it took them to get to their customers.
Anaxiamander wrote:Out of curiousity, are these going to end up going out with the eventual Through the Breach Terious/Santana for those who will receive them?
Yeah. No reason not to give you the latest updated card while we have them on hand.
I saw an interesting suggestion where they could make it an upgrade to have Hanged on 50mm bases rather than their usual 30s. Worth a full stone or two? I dunno, I have zero experience using them or playing against them, but if it's a big enough deal to expand their radius of influence, this seems like a fairly elegant way to do it.
Obviously using the giant trees on a 30mm base would be problematic, but going 30 to 50 using magnets could prove to be fairly elegant/cost effective for those so inclined.
Through the Breach is a tabletop roleplaying game set in the world of Malifaux. Players take on the roles of various citizens, such as Gunfighters, Drudges, Dabblers, and Entertainers. Each of these characters is as unique as the players themselves. These are the Fated. As a Fated, you know your future, it has been told to you, as cryptic as the sparrow on a moonless night. It is your task to rush headlong into the arms of destiny, or to carve your own future.
One player takes on the role of the Fatemaster. It is his duty to craft the legends of the other players, to narrate the story of Malifaux in his own vision, and to move each Fated along towards the moment when they must choose between their fortune and their soul.
Through the Breach is a card-driven RPG, with actions resolved through the reveal of cards from a communal Fate Deck. Each player, however, has a Twist Deck of their own, and they can use these cards to push fate towards their own desires. The Fatemaster, however, relies on no such randomness. He is the lord of providence, after all. It is his task to weave a story, and if he dares to touch the Fate Deck… there are repercussions.
Through the Breach, the Malifaux RPG testing has been completed and is now in the final stages of editing and layout before being sent off to the printers.
A big thank you to all of our Kickstarter backers as we move forward in completing Through the Breach and giving us the chance to bring this exciting project to fruition.
Backers of this project will be informed when the printed product is in hand and we will ship and complete the project immediately after. It'll take a bit longer before it makes it to the public through distribution but we'll keep you appraised.
Emphasis mine.
A KS update would be nice, but considering that we established their printer knocked out their 5k M2E run in around 3 weeks, and they've got 8 left on their "late Q1" timeline, hopefully we'll get some good news soon.
They've also been putting out an update or two (ish) per month since August, and the last one was January 6th, so we're due for something from them, assuming they hold to that general pattern.
Through the Breach is a tabletop roleplaying game set in the world of Malifaux. Players take on the roles of various citizens, such as Gunfighters, Drudges, Dabblers, and Entertainers. Each of these characters is as unique as the players themselves. These are the Fated. As a Fated, you know your future, it has been told to you, as cryptic as the sparrow on a moonless night. It is your task to rush headlong into the arms of destiny, or to carve your own future.
One player takes on the role of the Fatemaster. It is his duty to craft the legends of the other players, to narrate the story of Malifaux in his own vision, and to move each Fated along towards the moment when they must choose between their fortune and their soul.
Through the Breach is a card-driven RPG, with actions resolved through the reveal of cards from a communal Fate Deck. Each player, however, has a Twist Deck of their own, and they can use these cards to push fate towards their own desires. The Fatemaster, however, relies on no such randomness. He is the lord of providence, after all. It is his task to weave a story, and if he dares to touch the Fate Deck… there are repercussions.
Through the Breach, the Malifaux RPG testing has been completed and is now in the final stages of editing and layout before being sent off to the printers.
A big thank you to all of our Kickstarter backers as we move forward in completing Through the Breach and giving us the chance to bring this exciting project to fruition.
Backers of this project will be informed when the printed product is in hand and we will ship and complete the project immediately after. It'll take a bit longer before it makes it to the public through distribution but we'll keep you appraised.
Emphasis mine.
A KS update would be nice, but considering that we established their printer knocked out their 5k M2E run in around 3 weeks, and they've got 8 left on their "late Q1" timeline, hopefully we'll get some good news soon.
They've also been putting out an update or two (ish) per month since August, and the last one was January 6th, so we're due for something from them, assuming they hold to that general pattern.
Out if curiosity, what happened with the multipose character sprues? I can't recall having ever seen any WIPs or renders regarding that stuff, but I haven't been playing close attention.
There were a few renders but then it disappeared*. The renders look about what you'd expect: same detail as the new plastics but less dynamic 'cause they've got a ton of options.
*edit: as in, no more info, not as in they took the images down... still on the KS comments IIRC
I'm really concerned about Mack losing touch with reality... This is really disturbing.
Is your campaign art?
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Salutations Everyone!
Mack here with a bit of a designer diary on Through the Breach and the upcoming Penny Dreadful. With principal work on the core books done and them going off to the printer, my heavy lifting is complete. It’s a good time during the design process for the designer. The production team is working hard on hitting the Q1 target, but I get to sit back and look to the future. It’s a time where I get to plan future innovations, and contemplate what the very nature of an RPG published adventure can be.
As you are likely all aware, one of my close friends is a gentleman named Ross Watson. He and I have had some lengthy (and enjoyable) conversations about the nature of art, and whether or not a tabletop campaign qualifies. It blends literature, performance art, and drama. Why can’t it be art? To that end, if it is possible for a campaign to be considered a form of art, why can’t it be high art? Well we think it can. We think that it might already be! So that’s where the Penny Dreadful series comes in. What can we provide to the players that allow them to make their own version of classic literature?
Each game is different. If the players can’t change the course of the adventure then it isn’t an RPG, and we might as well try to write “The Great American Novel” in 2nd person perspective. There is a term in video games called “Disassociation of Authorship.” The audience has agency in the game, and it’s the effect in a video game where the player says “Look what I did.” It means that we, as designers and writers, know that the players aren’t going to take ownership of the art, they are going to make things happen. When you think about it, that’s a powerful tool. If we do our jobs correctly, the players will have a piece of art that they truly cherish. It will move them, excite them, and they will yearn to re-experience it.
In Defense of Innocence is our first Penny Dreadful, and Ross has taken a surgeon’s approach to bringing these concepts to the page. The adventure isn’t a narrative, it’s a snapshot. It’s a look at the town of Innocence during a critical time. As the town prepares to hold an election for mayor the Fated player characters must defend the people from an impending Neverborn attack. The players have multiple roads to travel, and there isn’t one set ending. It’s a fully fleshed out town, with dozens of adventure hooks and a nearly infinite range of possibilities for the Fatemaster.
The adventure also includes running themes and metaphor. We can write combat encounters all day, and there is plenty of fighting to be had, but what about something bigger? In a classical piece of literature the reader is walked through an exploration of a theme. In The Hunchback of Notre Dame, for instance, we are asked to ponder the relationship between Man and Monster, and what makes a person one or the other. In a book, that’s something that the author has a lot of control over. However, in an RPG, we have a powerful tool… the player. What new ways can we explore these themes? The players, as they interact with the town and its inhabitants, are going to explore the nature of “innocence” as a concept. What is its relationship to ignorance? Who is innocent? Is it worth protecting?
It’s a high target to aim at, but it’s not impossible to hit. I’m pretty excited to get the first adventure into your hands. I want us to all make some beautiful art.
I'm really concerned about Mack losing touch with reality... This is really disturbing.
I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching there head at this update.
At least its not Katalyka levels of wtf yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This was in the comments:
Creator Wyrd Miniatures 41 minutes ago
Hi Backers - we want to thank you for your support and continued interest in Through the Breach. We're in the manufacturing window right now, which is why we haven't been able to show you much. We'll be launching a comprehensive update tomorrow though, so in the meantime, please make sure your address is up to date and enjoy the Designer Diaries.
I like his sentiment (aspirations to something great) and referenced execution (symbolism in a free-form RPG is something I haven't seen done with much success) but disagree with his argument/expectation that participants will intend to make art (and I'm not sure what he means by drama (as separate from literature or performance art).
Most of the time in my experience, the narrative is up to the game writer and GM (if there is one), and the PCs (and to a degree GM) will mostly be there for an adventure and cool stuff, not making an epic tragedy or something.
I have to admit, I'm surprised they're releasing them this far (at least a month) before we're likely to have the physical copies in hand, unless that month estimate is far off and they've already begun firing packages into the mail (though I assume that'd be update worthy).
I'd figured they'd hold off until roughly that time (if not a bit later) based on piracy concerns alone.
Oh well, have to head over and pick mine up eventually.
Regarding the delivery time frame, from the Wyrd TtB forums:
"NATHAN CAROLAND
When the books come in from print and the miniatures arrive off the boat. On someone else's schedule now."
I asked for clarification on both points (are the books nearly printed, or just starting the run? Is the boat visible from the US shores now, or did it just leave port to begin its trek, etc) a moment ago, but at least that's a start.
Forar wrote: Regarding the delivery time frame, from the Wyrd TtB forums:
"NATHAN CAROLAND
When the books come in from print and the miniatures arrive off the boat. On someone else's schedule now."
I asked for clarification on both points (are the books nearly printed, or just starting the run? Is the boat visible from the US shores now, or did it just leave port to begin its trek, etc) a moment ago, but at least that's a start.
*sigh* I don't think I like the passing the buck sort of thing... I get that they can't make the boat move through the water faster, or get through customs quicker, but we're still past one year since the end of the KS. The humorous thing is that if they had gotten us the playtest files as soon as the KS ended and the cash was in their account, we'd have had an extra 6 months of playtest time, which may have kept everything on schedule or we might have a 2013Q4 release instead of a 2014Q2 release... W/e I'll get a package on my doorstep sometime before 2015 at this point, and I'll probably just throw it on the shelf and not bother with it now...
I'm really concerned about Mack losing touch with reality... This is really disturbing.
I'm glad I'm not the only one scratching there head at this update.
At least its not Katalyka levels of wtf yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This was in the comments:
Creator Wyrd Miniatures 41 minutes ago
Hi Backers - we want to thank you for your support and continued interest in Through the Breach. We're in the manufacturing window right now, which is why we haven't been able to show you much. We'll be launching a comprehensive update tomorrow though, so in the meantime, please make sure your address is up to date and enjoy the Designer Diaries.
Did that "comprehensive update" ever actually happen? The most recent update is backers only, so I've no idea what it says. Am I out of the loop, or did the multi-pose kits never get shown?
No. The "comprehensive update" hasn't materialized, and the latest update is just to let people know they can go get their .pdf copies off the site.
I snagged mine, but for anything this long I generally prefer to read a physical copy, so I haven't really plowed into it yet.
Despite my local gaming crew falling out over Malifaux (2.0 was highly contentious for some of us), there remains some interest in playing TtB (good thing, given that we have 2 Gaming Room and 1 Dining Room backer between us), so they're growing a bit antsy as the delays keep showing up.
Edit: Plus, y'know, this being the second longest overdue Kickstarter on my profile...
I just don't.... what the hey? It's not like Mack is doing the 3D rendering, so what could be the hold-up on the multipose?
That product just seems like it could be such a seller in and of itself: things like the chainsaw and gatling gun aside, a truly customizable kit for fantasy/steampunk PCs (in hard plastic!) seems like a license to print money...
I didn't see it posted here but I assume everyone knew about this?
Project Update #56: Fated and Fatemaster's Almanac Available for Download!
Hi Backers,
The PDF of the Fated and Fatemaster's Almanac are available for download! Thanks for your support and patience, everyone. We've just sent individual messages with instructions to everyone at the Core Set level and above. Let us know if you didn't receive a message from us!
Well, with AdeptiCon coming and going, it's been a year since the announcement of M2E and a year and a half since the TtB kickstarter... anyone else feeling like its gonna be GenCon by the time we see this stuff?
They've claimed the books are at the printers and the figures are on a boat. It's been that way for nearly a month or so. Customs are a bitch and shipping isn't a small thing, but it taking another 4+ months would mean we've been flat out lied to somewhere along the way. I mean, above and beyond all the questionable gak we've seen to date.
Which is kind of depressing. KS's have delays, no doubt about it, but for a project that was supposed to be essentially 'done' and wrapped up beta testing back in early January, going 3 months without apparently having even an educated guess as to when they might deliver is rather unsettling.
I'm sure they've got faith that they'll have it by August. They probably don't want to say it aloud, but let's be real, this will be one of or even THE big item they unveil for Gencon.
Not that I'm one for conspiracy theories, but some people have pondered what the odds are that they're just going to wait so they don't anticlimactically pre-empt their own big unveiling. On the official forums someone asked me "what reason would they have to wait before sending backers their stuff?"
Well, that'd be one of them. Wanting to wait to send them off just before Gencon so they can still launch to great fanfare, rather than simply having the books available after the backers have already had them for 4 months.
It's not the strongest of theories, but as the weeks go by, it's not exactly losing strength.
Ashitaka wrote: In the latest Chronicles they list the RPG books and materials as 'summer' releases.
Which, like Forar said, would make TtB the big GenCon reveal but unfortunately we as backers have already paid for a product promised for last September.
But I'm definitely tired of the silence around what is supposed to be the final act of the project. I simply cannot believe that, if they're really at production, that they don't have anything else to say or show off potentially mere weeks off from delivery.
And if we're months off, they really need to say something.
And if they really don't know, I'm calling shenanigans. It's mutually exclusive with what they've told us so far, and for whatever reluctance they have to speak up because apparently some people get fussy, well silence has people commenting about seeking refunds through their CC/bank (which, even this far out, people have managed across some campaigns), so obviously damage is being done.
I don't know about you, but in a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' situation, I generally err on the less gak'y side of things where possible, and I don't feel they're acting in good faith these days.
As I feel I've said elsewhere, I'm not an unreasonable man. Hell, an update with some shots of decks and test run sprues would be nice. A "look, the boat is in the middle of the ocean, might be another couple of weeks, possibly a month if US customs are jerks" would be nice. "It's not on our schedule" without any further information or context is bullgak.
This whole experience has soured me on Wyrd. (And my group was positive about the switch to M2E.)
In the mean time they put out M2E and they've been pumping out board and card games, the reaction to which seems to be a big 'meh' from what I can gather.
The lack of updates is disturbing.
Forar - is that DS cake in your sig the one I saw at Meeplemart the other day?
Ashitaka wrote: This whole experience has soured me on Wyrd. (And my group was positive about the switch to M2E.)
In the mean time they put out M2E and they've been pumping out board and card games, the reaction to which seems to be a big 'meh' from what I can gather.
The lack of updates is disturbing.
Forar - is that DS cake in your sig the one I saw at Meeplemart the other day?
Kings of Artifice and Evil Baby Orphange were actually pretty good, but on the same note Jetpack Unicorn was horrible.
I've backed alot of Kickstarters... Back in the day I paid a ton of attention to delivery dates and updates and all it really did was make me angry. Now I've taken a step back, don't pay as much attention and be plesently suprised when I get a mystery box in the mail. I'm not saying that a company should be able to treat backers however they choose, I just don't worry about it anymore. I take prior prefermance into account when consider backing new projects. Most likely I won't back another Wyrd Kickstarter.
The best advice I can give to people who want to be active in Kickstarter... Only use money you can afford to loose.
Ashitaka wrote: Forar - is that DS cake in your sig the one I saw at Meeplemart the other day?
Funny thing, yes it is.
And while being laid back about Kickstarters and viewing them as 'only giving money you can afford to lose' isn't a bad way to go about things, it isn't for everyone, and moreso, I think there are some issues in the whole system/community with stances that reduces creator responsibility.
They've barely said or shown anything in any updates going on 15 months, and the best they can come up with on the supposed verge of delivery is "we're on someone else's timeline"? That's bullgak.
Delivering the pdfs was a good start. Don't get me wrong. We have proof the thing exists. But I and many others prefer to read a couple hundred pages as a physical book, and honestly I just want to get the rest of my backer rewards on ebay at this point, so soured am I on the whole campaign and how Wyrd has treated the backers (and me personally). There was a time when I was really looking forward to having a second Miss Terious (another Death Marshall) and the Hanging Tree (more terrain!) and Hannah (rare! Ooooh!) and Santana (also rare! oooooooh!) and my one of a kind doll. Now I just want to give the doll to a friend and get the rest on its way to recouping some of the significant pile of cash I handed them 15'ish months ago.
Feels like they can't even be bothered to pretend to care...
Feels like they can't even be bothered to pretend to care...
They've got the money, they've people on their forums telling them how great they are, I doubt they really give a toss one way or the other at this point.
Ashitaka wrote: Forar - is that DS cake in your sig the one I saw at Meeplemart the other day?
Funny thing, yes it is.
And while being laid back about Kickstarters and viewing them as 'only giving money you can afford to lose' isn't a bad way to go about things, it isn't for everyone, and moreso, I think there are some issues in the whole system/community with stances that reduces creator responsibility.
They've barely said or shown anything in any updates going on 15 months, and the best they can come up with on the supposed verge of delivery is "we're on someone else's timeline"? That's bullgak.
Delivering the pdfs was a good start. Don't get me wrong. We have proof the thing exists. But I and many others prefer to read a couple hundred pages as a physical book, and honestly I just want to get the rest of my backer rewards on ebay at this point, so soured am I on the whole campaign and how Wyrd has treated the backers (and me personally). There was a time when I was really looking forward to having a second Miss Terious (another Death Marshall) and the Hanging Tree (more terrain!) and Hannah (rare! Ooooh!) and Santana (also rare! oooooooh!) and my one of a kind doll. Now I just want to give the doll to a friend and get the rest on its way to recouping some of the significant pile of cash I handed them 15'ish months ago.
Feels like they can't even be bothered to pretend to care...
I don't disagree that the company should be held responsible, at this point I'll probably never back another Wyrd Kickstarter ever again. They've handeled the two Kickstarters I've backed them with pretty poorly, for the life of me I really can't figure out why no one at Wyrd will take the hour or two too sit down and write a proper update. There isn't a whole lot I can do too change the way their handeling this project right now so I'm simply not going to let it bother me. I will however make my displeasure known in the future by not supporting their projects.
Maybe I'm jaded, I got to play the RPG at Gencon last year with Mack in their Cannon Campaign. So all along I've known that the game actually exsists and that I enjoy it, I actually think they've done quite a number of inovative things with this RPG.
Wyrd isn't going to ruin their reputation by not delivering on their Kickstarter. It might take alot longer then you'd expect or like but they will eventually delivere as promissed.
Oh, I'm sure they'll deliver, but having communications go from "bad" to "terrible" in what should be the final lap is kind of becoming my final straw.
I don't think I even really gave the campaign a second thought until they flew past the September deadline with barely recognition of the matter, beyond starting up the open beta around that time. Even while annoyed, I think I've been pretty laid back about the 6 months they tacked onto the target.
Approaching 7 months late, with no deadline, no communication, and snark when asked for a heads up? Yeah, no. I was pondering snagging the arsenal deck for my faction and maybe even the M2E rule book, just to try things out and see where they settled down after the beta finished, but now? Definitely not.
Forar wrote: Oh, I'm sure they'll deliver, but having communications go from "bad" to "terrible" in what should be the final lap is kind of becoming my final straw.
I don't think I even really gave the campaign a second thought until they flew past the September deadline with barely recognition of the matter, beyond starting up the open beta around that time. Even while annoyed, I think I've been pretty laid back about the 6 months they tacked onto the target.
Approaching 7 months late, with no deadline, no communication, and snark when asked for a heads up? Yeah, no. I was pondering snagging the arsenal deck for my faction and maybe even the M2E rule book, just to try things out and see where they settled down after the beta finished, but now? Definitely not.
I think it's all part of them trying to encourage people to go to their forums... But it's having the opposite effect and just pissing people off.
Are there even any major updates there? I haven't been in several months, I would assume that there would be, but how hard is it to copy and paste to a KS update?
Nope. Not a peep. The "they're on a boat" quote is the closest thing to new news we've gotten, and for all we know that was in the wistful future looking sense, as opposed to the literal "they're sitting on a boat" manner.
According to Nathan, they could have rushed delivery for the end of last year, but chose not to. Which, hey, whatever, that happens. It's the utter silence regarding a project with a dozen moving parts supposedly weeks from delivery (or is it) that I find baffling.
This is the latest thing Nathan has had to say on the matter:
We could have hightailed this out to keep folks from frothing and going 'but I've been waiting'. You're right, you have been, but 'I' made the decision that I wanted to make certain the product got plenty of testing and that we could put as much extra into the books as possible. If you want to blame someone, you can blame me and stop sending hate e-mail at Mack and some of the other fellas.
I could have made it happen before the end of last year, if I wanted to put out a rushed product and not have it quite where we were happy with it. I tasked Mack and some others to ignore the hollering and the need to just 'get it done' and to instead get it done in a manner that they were both happy and proud to have their name on it. While we were at it, we stuffed the hell out of it with new artwork throughout the whole of the book and we didn't skimp there either - that also takes time.
I could have the KS updated daily with a 'and we're looking forward to it', 'oh we're excited', 'any moment now ...' but lets be honest, that's a waste of your time and a bit condescending to have to keep saying 'its right around the corner'. I want to make certain I have something for you -when I have the physical product in hand, we'll photo it and shoot it out to you to see - of course it'll be shipping right about that time as well. Could we have been more communicative, yeah, most likely and it's something that I'm learning from myself.
Someone earlier was pointing out the time it took to get in some of the M2E books .. yup, I could have some of them in hand pretty damn quick - it's called air shipping them, which is a damn expensive process and usually something we do only when we have to, otherwise it is gets sea shipped. Also depends on the time of the year when we do our printing - sometimes we get straight to the front of the pack and we're scheduled within a couple of days to go to print. Other times there are other jobs, and companies, lined up and that two or three day wait can turn into a three to four week wait - assuming nothing goes wrong. Hell, don't even try to schedule anything if you can help it with the Chinese New Year as that affects everything from production to shipping on everything out of Asia, China or otherwise.
So for those folks that are disgruntled with the time that it has taken, I can only give a sincere apology for the additional time that it has taken. That having been said, I'm not upset for taking it as I think it will make for a much better product that you'll be happy with once you have it in hand. And for you folks that are getting the voodoo doll that our friend Nox has put together, I honestly think y'all will be just excited to see that fella as well as the books (seriously, they are neat).
So, once again - hate mail - you know where to send it. Mack, much as he has pushed and pointed and cajoled, has no control over the speed it gets to you (and believe me, he bends my ear). That said, we are working on getting everything in as quickly as possible, and more to the point, I think you'll be pleased with it once it is in hand.
Which, while I agree that sending Mack 'hate mail' is inexcusable, it waffles around without saying anything about the absolute drought of information we're undergoing. 5 weeks since the last update and nothing to report? I hope their production companies are ashamed of themselves.
Oh, and Alf, I stand corrected; seems they air freighted the M2E books. Their printers are indeed across an ocean.
I could have made it happen before the end of last year, if I wanted to put out a rushed product and not have it quite where we were happy with it. I tasked Mack and some others to ignore the hollering and the need to just 'get it done' and to instead get it done in a manner that they were both happy and proud to have their name on it. While we were at it, we stuffed the hell out of it with new artwork throughout the whole of the book and we didn't skimp there either - that also takes time.
Stuff like that just amuses me when I see how little effort they put into editing the actual text.
Nope. Not a peep. The "they're on a boat" quote is the closest thing to new news we've gotten, and for all we know that was in the wistful future looking sense, as opposed to the literal "they're sitting on a boat" manner.
According to Nathan, they could have rushed delivery for the end of last year, but chose not to. Which, hey, whatever, that happens. It's the utter silence regarding a project with a dozen moving parts supposedly weeks from delivery (or is it) that I find baffling.
This is the latest thing Nathan has had to say on the matter:
We could have hightailed this out to keep folks from frothing and going 'but I've been waiting'. You're right, you have been, but 'I' made the decision that I wanted to make certain the product got plenty of testing and that we could put as much extra into the books as possible. If you want to blame someone, you can blame me and stop sending hate e-mail at Mack and some of the other fellas.
I could have made it happen before the end of last year, if I wanted to put out a rushed product and not have it quite where we were happy with it. I tasked Mack and some others to ignore the hollering and the need to just 'get it done' and to instead get it done in a manner that they were both happy and proud to have their name on it. While we were at it, we stuffed the hell out of it with new artwork throughout the whole of the book and we didn't skimp there either - that also takes time.
I could have the KS updated daily with a 'and we're looking forward to it', 'oh we're excited', 'any moment now ...' but lets be honest, that's a waste of your time and a bit condescending to have to keep saying 'its right around the corner'. I want to make certain I have something for you -when I have the physical product in hand, we'll photo it and shoot it out to you to see - of course it'll be shipping right about that time as well. Could we have been more communicative, yeah, most likely and it's something that I'm learning from myself.
Someone earlier was pointing out the time it took to get in some of the M2E books .. yup, I could have some of them in hand pretty damn quick - it's called air shipping them, which is a damn expensive process and usually something we do only when we have to, otherwise it is gets sea shipped. Also depends on the time of the year when we do our printing - sometimes we get straight to the front of the pack and we're scheduled within a couple of days to go to print. Other times there are other jobs, and companies, lined up and that two or three day wait can turn into a three to four week wait - assuming nothing goes wrong. Hell, don't even try to schedule anything if you can help it with the Chinese New Year as that affects everything from production to shipping on everything out of Asia, China or otherwise.
So for those folks that are disgruntled with the time that it has taken, I can only give a sincere apology for the additional time that it has taken. That having been said, I'm not upset for taking it as I think it will make for a much better product that you'll be happy with once you have it in hand. And for you folks that are getting the voodoo doll that our friend Nox has put together, I honestly think y'all will be just excited to see that fella as well as the books (seriously, they are neat).
So, once again - hate mail - you know where to send it. Mack, much as he has pushed and pointed and cajoled, has no control over the speed it gets to you (and believe me, he bends my ear). That said, we are working on getting everything in as quickly as possible, and more to the point, I think you'll be pleased with it once it is in hand.
Which, while I agree that sending Mack 'hate mail' is inexcusable, it waffles around without saying anything about the absolute drought of information we're undergoing. 5 weeks since the last update and nothing to report? I hope their production companies are ashamed of themselves.
Oh, and Alf, I stand corrected; seems they air freighted the M2E books. Their printers are indeed across an ocean.
That's fun news.
This is fething ridiculous. Mantic games manages to get projects thought up, started, and out to players faster than this. And even if the quality suffers on their models (seriously Ronnie, stop using restic), AT LEAST THEY TALK TO THE BACKERS LIKE THEY'RE FETHING WORTH IT!.
Wyrd has swiftly moved into the "do no recommend" column. To the Wyrd employees that read this thread, I'm not even sorry about that. You guys have been absolutely terrible with communication, we're not just customers, we're fans of the product, we were (and some still are) willing to put down hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into a product we've never seen simply because of who is making it. Unfortunately, Nathan sits there and says, "we're doing this to make sure you get the best product you can get." Well Nathan, why didn't you start the open beta test over a year ago? We only had a few months of open beta anyways, your timeline still would have made sense. The ball may be in someone else's court at this very moment, but it doesn't mean you all didn't lulu on it while it was in your court.
skarsol wrote:
I could have made it happen before the end of last year, if I wanted to put out a rushed product and not have it quite where we were happy with it. I tasked Mack and some others to ignore the hollering and the need to just 'get it done' and to instead get it done in a manner that they were both happy and proud to have their name on it. While we were at it, we stuffed the hell out of it with new artwork throughout the whole of the book and we didn't skimp there either - that also takes time.
Stuff like that just amuses me when I see how little effort they put into editing the actual text.
I haven't taken a look at the PDF because I enjoy my dead tree format. Considering I got a chance to look at the playtest forums this evening and I saw people saying they were going to go grammar nazi on the text simply highlights that they still don't have an editor and if they do, that person should be fired because spelling and grammar mistakes are atrocious in the professional world. Also, is the art just re-used/re-hashed art from the various Malifaux books already in existence?
Yeah, let's not lose sight; the MPM and Hannah are far from making this "a minis campaign" in the usual "omg we need to make 100 molds and a billion figures" kind of campaign.
There are, like, 3 new figures total; male MPM, female MPM, and Hannah. They sneeze out more than that per month for their general lineup.
This thread just popped into my subscribed threads list, and reading the last few pages I'm glad I didn't back this. Not only because I found a gaming system I really love since it started (IK:RPG), but because my initial thought was that it wasn't sweet enough of a deal to pre-order. Looks like my gut paid off.
Skarsol, I misspoke so, to clarify: I lump minis, RPGs, and modern/component-heavy board games together in the category of "usually poor editing."
Forar, it's actually about average to a little below: 1 large model and an equivalent number of components to around 2 crew sets (yes, it doesn't come to the same number of models, but they're flexible and I'm expecting to get 6 out of each kit, since all it requires is more legs) is about on par with medium-light months. Not saying it's a minis campaign, but don't think it's exactly fair to call that "3 minis"
If the MPM figures are still around what they showed off earlier, there are only 3 torsos, meaning 3 models per box. Not nearly "a crew box apiece"
That might have changed, but while yes, there were a bunch of options, I don't believe it was going to be a case of building nearly that many actual figures. Seemed to be mostly arms, legs, heads and accessories. I suppose some enterprising soul might greenstuff their own torsos or other missing necessary bits (skipping that, it'd look like a 4 year old with playdough from me) to use up the remainder, but it's not an option for everyone.
Point is, aside from whatever they may be including for retail, they're not launching three dozen figures where massive delays are expected based on minis alone, and the RPG itself has been done for 3 months (January). We were told it was all at production 6 weeks ago, and while the Hannah update was nice to show off (guess Hannahs are done then? Just waiting on the MPMs and books?), it'd be nice if we weren't left in the dark for another month.
Things we haven't seen:
Prototype copies of the books, even if they're stuck on a boat, Wyrd most likely got proof copies of the book (we got proof copies of the Endless: Fantasy tactics book).
Pictures of the Special Edition Fate Deck
Sprues/renders of the Male and Female MPM
Pictures of the fatemasters screen
Sprues/renders of Hannah (though there are painted and assembled pics on the internet)
Those are 4-5 updates they could have given us to sate our curiosity while we wait.
It took me 5 minutes to compile that list. Hell, Mack could have given out notes from the Canon campaign he ran at GenCon. I only got a brief rundown of what happened to the fluff from Catyrpelius and there were two other groups that were playing that weekend.
It's like they're not even trying to show us what is being/has been done. I would have said they're trying to drive all traffic to the playtest site, but even that's pretty much dead.
The bad news: Production/shipping remains troublesome!
Hannah was a nice shout out, if only to a handful of the backers who'll be getting them, but nice to see all the same.
But even if it was an unrealistic expectation, I was hoping it was the start of them finally talking about this thing that's been baking for nearly twice its originally allotted time.
Well, as communication from wyrd remains just about 0, various stores amongst which the warstore, have placed pre-orders for the rpg stating june as the release date.
Edit and just now nathan posted an update (offcourse on the wyrd website, not on kickstarter)
The product will not be available for retail before Kickstarters are taken care of - I've already made that clear.
I could put an update today going 'hey, books are coming in ..' but I'm not going to. I'm going to wait till they arrive this afternoon (if tracking isn't lying) and come next Monday will post pictures of the product in hand, etc - which I'm pretty excited about personally. Not everything has shown up, but we're pretty close.
In the mean time, the 'Wyrd has screwed me over and over' thread has run its course. The product has been created, paid for, and in the hands of other vendors right now (some of which I could strangle). When it's in mine, it'll be knocked out to kickstarter backers as quickly as we can, and the warehouse knows that that will be a mandatory overtime week to make that happen. If we could snap our fingers and have it done and sorted - I most certainly would.
If they hadn't dicked about for months, I'd be excited, but seriously, they expect us to be happy about it arriving in May? Where are pictures of the FM Screen? The multi part models?The fate deck?
Alfndrate wrote: If they hadn't dicked about for months, I'd be excited, but seriously, they expect us to be happy about it arriving in May? Where are pictures of the FM Screen? The multi part models?The fate deck?
Seriously Nathan, this is pathetic.
Their no worse then alot of other companies that use Kickstarter. Atleast they are communicating somewhere.
"We'll be making an update announcement today and of course any address changes (we have received some) will be updated.
If you find that you will be moving by a certain date and you let us know, we can make note of it on the order and ship it here, there, or wait for an update to a stable location and make certain it gets to you. "
Wyrd Miniatures wrote:Project Update #58: Through the Breach in the Flesh
Hello Through the Breach Supporters! It is an exciting day here at Wyrd central as our advanced copies of the two Through the Breach RPG books arrived! After spending all these months working to put together the absolute best product we could, it's great to finally hold it in our hands. Without further delay, we want to show you what you've been waiting for, the books!
Obviously the production on these books took quite a bit longer than we expected, but we are confident that the quality of the product benefited greatly from the delay. The additional time was spent to make sure the game was done at the highest level, and everything from the rules, to the stories, to the all brand new artwork, to the production quality really shined. All that is left is the (hopefully quick) boat ride for the main shipment of books to get to us, and then we will turn around and get them into your hands as soon as possible! It should be only a matter of weeks now. Only after we get your rewards to you will these books then go on sale to the public.
We here at Wyrd apologize for the delays, but we hope that our decisions to ensure the long term quality of the game will make up for the waiting time. But to help make up for it, every person who pledged enough to get the printed RPG books will have a bonus gift included in their shipment.
The only item which will not ship when the books arrive is the deluxe hard bound book. The process to create and print hard bound books takes several additional weeks, and we don't want to keep you waiting. When the deluxe books arrive, we will of course get them into your hands immediately.
We will be taking more photos this week and give you all a look at many of the finished products that are going into your packages.
Reminder!!!!
This is your LAST chance to update your address, so make sure your address is correct so that we send your rewards to the right place. Please update your address in your kickstarter profile and also send an email with the change to Tamarra here at Wyrd central - office.assistant@wyrd-games.net to ensure your rewards get to you safely and quickly.
well... that took long enough. Assuming they're not paying ridiculous fees to rush them, thinking we'll be getting our orders around the end of the month(?)
spiralingcadaver wrote: well... that took long enough. Assuming they're not paying ridiculous fees to rush them, thinking we'll be getting our orders around the end of the month(?)
It doesn't look like they've even gotten on the boat yet. So probably 2 months to go.
spiralingcadaver wrote: well... that took long enough. Assuming they're not paying ridiculous fees to rush them, thinking we'll be getting our orders around the end of the month(?)
It doesn't look like they've even gotten on the boat yet. So probably 2 months to go.
Hmm, I read that as they were already on the boat and Wyrd was expecting them in a few weeks...
Well, Kingdom Death has Wyrd beat as my oldest KS still not fulfilled. Then again, TTB isn't quite the massive undertaking that Poots has hoisted onto his shoulders. It likely isn't the same level of quality, either. So, to put things into perspective, here are my "active" Kickstarters and the date that Amazon collected money.
Jan 07, 2013 Kingdom Death - Poots
Jan 10, 2013 Through the Breach - Wyrd Miniatures
May 12, 2013 Tablescapes - Secret Weapon Miniatures
Jun 02, 2013 Deadzone - Mantic (Partial deliver on Dec 03, 2013)
Jul 07, 2013 Raging Heroes (TGoTG) - Loud'n Raging
Sep 15, 2013 Wrath of Kings - CMoN
Yea, I don't think I'll be giving Wyrd any more money via Kickstarter pledges. Might as well just wait for retail.
Alfndrate wrote: Doesn't help that their last few non Malifaux releases haven't looked all that stellar.
Kings of Artifice was actually really good and I've heard nothing bad about Showdown Icons. Jetpack Unicorn was decently produced and had good art but the gameplay was horrible. They did a good job with EBO and Puppet Wars is on my list of games to get eventually...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Well, Kingdom Death has Wyrd beat as my oldest KS still not fulfilled. Then again, TTB isn't quite the massive undertaking that Poots has hoisted onto his shoulders. It likely isn't the same level of quality, either. So, to put things into perspective, here are my "active" Kickstarters and the date that Amazon collected money.
Jan 07, 2013 Kingdom Death - Poots
Jan 10, 2013 Through the Breach - Wyrd Miniatures
May 12, 2013 Tablescapes - Secret Weapon Miniatures
Jun 02, 2013 Deadzone - Mantic (Partial deliver on Dec 03, 2013)
Jul 07, 2013 Raging Heroes (TGoTG) - Loud'n Raging
Sep 15, 2013 Wrath of Kings - CMoN
Yea, I don't think I'll be giving Wyrd any more money via Kickstarter pledges. Might as well just wait for retail.
The minatures for Wyrd and Poots are produced by the same company...
If you think this campaign is bad in terms of communication then you should check out this one KiB the majority of the communication that we get on that project is from a fellow backer who just happens to live close to the project creators...
All this said, I'm still not going to give Wyrd anymore money through KS.
Breotan wrote: Well, Kingdom Death has Wyrd beat as my oldest KS still not fulfilled. Then again, TTB isn't quite the massive undertaking that Poots has hoisted onto his shoulders. It likely isn't the same level of quality, either.
The minatures for Wyrd and Poots are produced by the same company...
Manufactured by the same company in China, yes, but Poots contracted for a lot more models and is pushing for far more detail than what Wyrd does. That is what I meant about the difference in detail.
Essentially Wyrd needed two molds cut for this project; the multipart male and female spruces. The other "reward" models had already been produced or were already scheduled to be produced before the kick starter even launched so they didn't affect the schedule in any way. That means a year and a half was taken to push out a couple of RPGS books that had much of the initial design worked out at the start.
Then again, WotC seems to be taking their sweet-arse time getting D&D 5th out the door, so what do I know?
Breotan wrote: Well, Kingdom Death has Wyrd beat as my oldest KS still not fulfilled. Then again, TTB isn't quite the massive undertaking that Poots has hoisted onto his shoulders. It likely isn't the same level of quality, either.
The minatures for Wyrd and Poots are produced by the same company...
Manufactured by the same company in China, yes, but Poots contracted for a lot more models and is pushing for far more detail than what Wyrd does. That is what I meant about the difference in detail.
Essentially Wyrd needed two molds cut for this project; the multipart male and female spruces. The other "reward" models had already been produced or were already scheduled to be produced before the kick starter even launched so they didn't affect the schedule in any way. That means a year and a half was taken to push out a couple of RPGS books that had much of the initial design worked out at the start.
Then again, WotC seems to be taking their sweet-arse time getting D&D 5th out the door, so what do I know?
All of Wyrds plastic models are produced by the same company Poots is using, Wargames Factory... Wyrd has been using Wargames Factory since they made the switch over to an all plastic line for every product they produce. Belive it or not Wyrd is the third largest miniatures company in terms of sales, atleast in the US it goes Games Workshop, Privateer Press, Wyrd... I garuntee you that Wyrd gives more buisness to Wargames Factory then Poots does.
Wyrds plastic models are great, but they have some oddities that are caused by the production methods the Wargames Facotry uses. Oddities that will be apparent in any plastic models Poots puts out.
My guess is they will go on sale before the hardbacks go out, and that that is part of the reason why they are shipping instead of waiting for them to be sent.
edited to add: dont the people who get the hardback also get the softbacks? if i remember correctly the hardbacks were an addition to the normal books so you wouldnt have to risk damaging them if you went out gaming.
and edited again: yes they are in addition, so they'll get the softcovers, just need to wait for the additional hardcovers.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder it they're going to hold off going to retail sales until backers who pledged for the hardback versions get their stuff?
(assuming they all didn't get paperbacks too)
Otherwise it will really suck to be them, no game for them for month(s) with the book in store for everybody else
Looking back through the Kickstarter page I don't see a way to have gotten just the Hardcover books. Every pledge level that comes with the hardcover books also comes with copies of the softcover.
Yep. Woulda' gotten a hardcover on its own, but for some reason they decided that you could only get it with another copy. I'll take more minis over a duplicate rulebook, any day of the week.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder it they're going to hold off going to retail sales until backers who pledged for the hardback versions get their stuff?
(assuming they all didn't get paperbacks too)
Otherwise it will really suck to be them, no game for them for month(s) with the book in store for everybody else
Looking back through the Kickstarter page I don't see a way to have gotten just the Hardcover books. Every pledge level that comes with the hardcover books also comes with copies of the softcover.
Correct, because lord knows we couldn't have had a well designed kickstarter pledge package. Want just the hardbacks? Tough, you gotta pay extra for redundant softcovers. Oh, and don't think you're going to get the hardcovers AND the exclusive mini without also shelling out for a stupid doll. The lack of just simple add ons was infuriating.
Forgive me, but have there been any pictures of the actual minis that are part of this? Reading that update it was as if there was nothing to this campaign except books; how can they ship if they don't have the minis yet, and if they do have the minis... err, what do they look like?
Buzzsaw wrote: Forgive me, but have there been any pictures of the actual minis that are part of this? Reading that update it was as if there was nothing to this campaign except books; how can they ship if they don't have the minis yet, and if they do have the minis... err, what do they look like?
It's been asked several times on the kickstarter as well as on their own forums.
It still hasn't been answered. Last time there was communication regarding it was the comment that they would not do regular updates as it would mean daily saying that the books are on a dock/boat and that wouldnt be usefull :(
I really dislike the "either it's daily or monthly!" stance.
Like, seriously? There's a lot of room on that spectrum. How about weekly? Showcase some of the crap that is on hand. Some form of update as to the transportation scheduling, what's ahead, what's behind?
I mean, we're long past the point where it really matters, but the "we're not going to send daily updates reporting that there's nothing to report" stance is bullgak. Nobody sensible wants literal daily updates, but once per week or two shouldn't strain anyone's schedule.
And if nothing has happened in 2 weeks when we're supposedly on the verge of delivery, I'm calling shenanigans.
Yep... this and puppet wars are at the top of my list of things I haven't liked wyrd's attitude on. They're often great with their relationship with customers, but this has kinda' sucked.
Right now, Soda Pop is winning a lot of points with me from their consistent weekly updates.
Alfndrate wrote: They did a good job with EBO and Puppet Wars is on my list of games to get eventually...
I have to disagree with you about Evil Baby Orphanage. They kickstarted that game AFTER it was completed. It was on sale at GenCon days after the kickstarter ended yet backers didn't get their copies for months. People who bought it at that GenCon got a card (or two) that was later taken out and is now basically a con exclusive that their backers never received. I think their EBO kickstarter was damn close to fraud.
Alfndrate wrote: They did a good job with EBO and Puppet Wars is on my list of games to get eventually...
I have to disagree with you about Evil Baby Orphanage. They kickstarted that game AFTER it was completed. It was on sale at GenCon days after the kickstarter ended yet backers didn't get their copies for months. People who bought it at that GenCon got a card (or two) that was later taken out and is now basically a con exclusive that their backers never received. I think their EBO kickstarter was damn close to fraud.
Holy hell bro, you fethed up that quote box, I said none of those words.
And I believe the person who originally said that was referring to the quality of the game, not the kickstarter. I'm not a fan of EBO as a game, and the kickstarter shenanigans is why I implemented a "Back only 1 kickstarter from a company at a time" policy because I backed TtB because I had my EBO game, but was waiting on everything else, that I assumed I'd get in March which got pushed back to June/July. If I had that policy in place before hand I'd have completely missed out on this gakshow...
Nathan, the one who was begrudgingly providing non-information a while ago hasn't even posted on their official forums in a month. It's been 7 weeks since the last update, and aside from telling us that they had most of the stuff in hand other than the books, we haven't heard squat.
Apparently GTM has the product noted with an August retail release, which coincides nicely with a "Gencon launch" that I naively thought was stretching things earlier this year. Didn't actually think they'd take 18 months to deliver on a 9 month project...
The last month has been filled with a lot of waiting on this end. As the final items arrived we found errors in the manufacturing of a few of them. The fatemasters kit was all wrong, and the mini sets were finalized by our factory at an incompatible size! That meant making our manufacturers redo them FAST and reship them all. The books however are in our hands now, after a week or two in customs, and look great! (and without typo's on the cover!)
All we are waiting on is the redone/fixed multi-piece minis, which we hope to have very very soon. And at this point, even if we don't have them, we'll be sending everything else out to you, and they'll come a bit later in a second shipment (probably along with your hardback books, if you're getting one of those).
In other words, we're starting to put reward packages together now, hopefully we'll be slipping those minis in and getting the near-complete package out the door. I will let you know when they are shipping out, and if the minis are in there or coming a bit later. We just didn't think you wanted to end up with RPG minis that didn't work with all those other Malifaux minis!
And just to show you something new we have in hand (done correctly on the 3rd try!). Here is a sneak preview of the Fatemasters Kit:
Thanks!
Eric
So the FM kit looks very crisp and clean, if not a little too M2E for my tastes, but that's fine. I'd still like to see the models without anything for scale just to friggin' see them. Though it is nice to get an update a month before GenCon. Also this one is done by Eric, did he/Nathan feel that an update this late required a more personal touch than "The Wyrd Staff"? Oh well, at least we'll start seeing stuff arrive at doorsteps.
Whoa, "The fatemasters kit was all wrong, and the mini sets were finalized by our factory at an incompatible size! That meant making our manufacturers redo them FAST and reship them all"?
That... sounds like a huge error. Am I reading the update wrong, or is the impression they had an entire production run have to be trashed for scale?
Miller doing an 
