I'm not going to lie buzz: while they'll NEVER admit it, this is almost word for word what you and I have been suggestioning for weeks and I have to believe these changes are derived from those suggestions. Very interesting.
I'm not going to lie buzz: while they'll NEVER admit it, this is almost word for word what you and I have been suggestioning for weeks and I have to believe these changes are derived from those suggestions. Very interesting.
And even I come back I'm missing out on Miss T and the Penny Dreadful reappear
then again I supose those that did keep the faith should be rewarded...
and maybe they can fire whoever designed the campaign however 'nice' as a person they are they've damaged Wyrd's reputation (unless it was an owner/co-owner then heaven help them)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have to say, the most impressive part isn't the catch, but the fact that you had biscuits handy TO catch!
We had to run down the block to a gas station to get one. It was a nice little break. But now I must return to the "word mine of the doomed" and get back to work!
Careful, Walla Walla is a place so nice, they named it twice! You'll never leave once you're there.
^-(That is actually a saying there, I like an hour away )
After I read the update email, I came on here expecting a train wreck of "I told you so's" and instead my faith in Dakka has been restored. Thanks guys for proving my fears wrong.
Also, Mack and other Wyrd guy are awesome. That is all.
Ozymandias wrote: After I read the update email, I came on here expecting a train wreck of "I told you so's" and instead my faith in Dakka has been restored. Thanks guys for proving my fears wrong.
Also, Mack and other Wyrd guy are awesome. That is all.
That would be Justin, lead Henchman wrangler. You can hear him laugh in the first Breachside Chat.
Ozymandias wrote: After I read the update email, I came on here expecting a train wreck of "I told you so's" and instead my faith in Dakka has been restored. Thanks guys for proving my fears wrong.
Also, Mack and other Wyrd guy are awesome. That is all.
I think Mack said it in an interview once, but it bears repeating: no matter how "negative" people may seem, they're people who care about you and your product and want you to do well. After all, if they didn't care, they wouldn't be posting. Sometimes it take us longer to respond than we would like, and sometimes the answer has to be no, but we do what we can and when people have valid points, they have valid points.
I have read every post in this thread since the beginning.
Ozymandias wrote: After I read the update email, I came on here expecting a train wreck of "I told you so's" and instead my faith in Dakka has been restored. Thanks guys for proving my fears wrong.
Also, Mack and other Wyrd guy are awesome. That is all.
I think Mack said it in an interview once, but it bears repeating: no matter how "negative" people may seem, they're people who care about you and your product and want you to do well. After all, if they didn't care, they wouldn't be posting. Sometimes it take us longer to respond than we would like, and sometimes the answer has to be no, but we do what we can and when people have valid points, they have valid points.
I have read every post in this thread since the beginning.
O.o and I still have a job? I'm gonna go this way and paint some gremlins... ->
Ozymandias wrote: After I read the update email, I came on here expecting a train wreck of "I told you so's" and instead my faith in Dakka has been restored. Thanks guys for proving my fears wrong.
Also, Mack and other Wyrd guy are awesome. That is all.
I think Mack said it in an interview once, but it bears repeating: no matter how "negative" people may seem, they're people who care about you and your product and want you to do well. After all, if they didn't care, they wouldn't be posting. Sometimes it take us longer to respond than we would like, and sometimes the answer has to be no, but we do what we can and when people have valid points, they have valid points.
I have read every post in this thread since the beginning.
I better go check and see if I'm still on the Henchman list.....
Unfortunately I'm just not an RPG player (Alf / Gym, I was referring to regular Malifaux earlier ) but man did this ever help win me over!
I do agree with the final statement of cincy/Buzz, that adding back in Miss T would definitely help the final push.
But consider my opinion of you lot, considerably won back over by Mack's Kickstarter updates, fully restored! As I said earlier I'll definitely be considering the skirmish game now and that beautiful lord chompy bits (hopefully the not-insanely-limited ebay priced one ).
Alpharius wrote: Adding the chance to get a Miss T again might be helpful...
I was thinking that too, perhaps during the last 48 hours they open up the first two early pledge gifts, but that would really screw with the people that pledge before the last rush D:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like I said RiTides, I'm giving Gym a refresher course via Vassal, if you want to sit in/get a demo
Awww, I asked about getting my early backer status reinstated and was shot down. A little disappointing, but perhaps they will change their minds in the future! If not, I'm not mad at it.
Yeah, the one downside to the rather amazing update (and posts here!) is that they are doing it in such a way that they're taking feedback, but without Saying that they're taking feedback.
Or to put it another way, without actually admitting that they were wrong...
To straight-up offer Miss T to non-early backers would probably make them have to admit they were going about the campaign wrong. They could do it through another "social media points" campaign or the like, but I don't know if that will happen.
Still, hopefully the Very clear boost in backers and money that this update is causing shows them that yes, positive PR / positive interaction with your base really does work, imagine that
A minis-only option would've been sweet! Would give people like me who are not RPG'ers a reason to pledge... i.e. more room under the tent for more types of backers.
recruittons wrote: Awww, I asked about getting my early backer status reinstated and was shot down. A little disappointing, but perhaps they will change their minds in the future! If not, I'm not mad at it.
Let this be a lesson to you. NEVER quit a kickstarter while it is running. Wait till the day before the end, examine your pledge and the value of what is available, then decide to leave, stay, or up your bid. You only hurt yourself if you do this pledge/cancel/pledge/cancel stuff.
Oh, BTW... FACEBOOK! LIKE! NAO! Both pics. Tweet and retweet it all, too.
Eh, I just never expected to want back in. I was so convinced that things wouldn't improve, I took the plunge. Most projects don't offer these types of limited rewards based on when you joined, so it's never been a problem for me before.
Yeah, I don't think you need a "policy" for when to back out of a KS, it is such a rare thing. I have only ever done it on one campaign and don't expect to do it again anytime soon. The idea of backing and then deciding the last day whether or not to keep it is something I don't ever see myself doing... I want to back projects I like and believe in, and barring exceptional developments / circumstances, my pledge is going to stick.
RiTides wrote: A minis-only option would've been sweet! Would give people like me who are not RPG'ers a reason to pledge... i.e. more room under the tent for more types of backers.
^^THIS^^!
I'm still elegible for the early mini - had hoped this would expand a wee bit further and well, those books could be fun to read - I just know my RPG wouldn't go for this kind of setting in all likelyhood... I'd love a "cool minis" option too... Still kind of on the fence whether to maybe just take the 125+33 or ro drop out - but would probably just drop out as things are now :(
Also just found my post from two and a half years ago about Lord Chompy Bits (what I assume is now called the "nightmare edition").
A shame it's so limited, and So Much better looking than the general release one! Really should've gotten it when I had the chance, but can't see myself paying over $200 for one model, or using the general release one...
(I know it's not related to the kickstarter, but this thread got me thinking about it )
I'd have to agree with a minis only option. I'm being stripped bare by the gaming mega-campaign, and now I'm not sure I can afford to spend $125 on TtB. If I could skip the books and still get the minis, I'd be in hog heaven.
This is not a, "if you don't like it don't back it" thing, but the minis are going to be made available. Nothing that has been said so far has made them "special edition" or "kickstarter exclusive" if the minis are what you truly want, they will be made available later
recruittons wrote: Oh, I know, but Hannah is special edition, so it would be nice, and so would Santana (assuming she gets made available to lower tiers)
recruittons wrote: Oh, I know, but Hannah is special edition, so it would be nice, and so would Santana (assuming she gets made available to lower tiers)
oh, so it's THOSE minis you want alright, proceed
Yup, those would be the ones I'm after, as well - mostly
I hate you Forar, I had the cash for a NE LCB, and I couldn't get my mitts on one D: So I settled for Teddy instead.
So, this is something I've been picking up on a lot. Extremely limited, collectible, "1990's hologram-cover Image comics" models seem to make up an inordinate amount of any discussion about Malifaux models. Is the whole company obsessed with this kind of Members Only exclusivity? Do they think it really makes new customers interested in buying their products when the fan community won't shut up about all the great stuff the proles YOU will never be able to own? Is there any reason Wyrd operates this way besides an addiction to smug fanboys?
Also, am I supposed to believe that Mr Chompy Bits: Death of a Santana/Hannahfall Crossover #1 (or whatever) model is worth anywhere near the prices people are talking about? It just makes the whole company look crazy and overvalued.
On a related note, I have an issue of Jim Lee's X-Men #1 up for trade if anyone's interested. I'll accept one NE LCB NCLB (whatever that is) for it.
EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again. It would be one thing if the company admitted it was wrong or apologized, but that's not what happened. The only regret I sense on the part of Wyrd (besides the regret of the poor schlemiels on the front lines of communication for being stuck with this chicken shart outfit) is regret that they can't tell you where to go and still keep your money.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again. It would be one thing if the company admitted it was wrong or apologized, but that's not what happened. The only regret I sense on the part of Wyrd (besides the regret of the poor schlemiels on the front lines of communication for being stuck with this chicken shart outfit) is regret that they can't tell you where to go and still keep your money.
Would an "Oops, our bad" have really killed them?
While that's a bit more confrontational then perhaps I would phrase it, you have a valid point. I would, however, propose a rejoinder: just as you should punish companies that don't satisfy you, you need to reward the companies that "see the light" and attempt to mend fences.
I've been as strong a critic as any of the conduct of this campaign, but this criticism must be separated from condemnation. Without getting into specifics, I have condemned GW's prior behavior. Wyrd's behavior here I have criticized. The difference being that I want GW to be punished, I merely wanted Wyrd to change what they were doing.
Would an apology be nice? I'm not honestly sure we deserve one, much less need one. Wyrd here was trying a different technique: a technique that I, among others, found ill-suited to the medium, but not a technique designed to heap vituperation on anyone, or cheat anyone. All they did was offer a bad deal.
Must, in addition to all but completely acquiescing to our suggestions, they also come to the community on bended knee? On a realistic level, it's clearly not going to happen, but on a psychological level, it's probably a bad idea anyway. The deal may have been bad by our reckoning, but there were over 1,000 people that did like it enough to pledge. To come out and say "hey, we didn't know what we were doing" is, by extension, chastising the existing backers, implying that they were saps for backing.
The fact is that essentially all of our criticisms are being addressed. Is it an "OMG, awesome!" deal? Not yet, but today's update is an enormous step in the right direction. It seems entirely appropriate to react to that positively, or else run the risk of becoming unsatisfiable... and people that cannot be satisfied are not courted as customers.
Agreed w/ Buzzsaw-- just tonight I had a waiter who was kind of a dick to me, but realized it and tried hard the rest of the meal, so I didn't go out of my way to punish him with a bad tip (though he didn't get a great one either). Similarly, Wyrd screwed up, and is attempting to correct course-- I was on the fence about backing more or dropping out (didn't really like my $60 pledge) and their better attitude swayed me to up my pledge.
In short, no need to hold a grudge (unless it was intentionally malicious).
I suppose it depends on what you read into their previous "technique". It seemed to contain a lot of scorn for previous Kickstarters and the people who backed them, just for being interested in preorders or freebies.
I'm not sure I find Malifaux models valuable enough to see the early version of Santanagate as anything other than extremely patronizing.
I think that they were trying to say they had an awesome new model, not that others were bad. Turned out changing the model didn't work, but they're reassessing.
Not sure which version of "santanagate" you're talking about, but I'm less pleased with that series of choices than their setting more realistic stretch goals (which I think may save their campaign).
On the fence here - I think that Wyrd changing the KS and reengaging with people is an undoubted positive thing and a good move. But on the other hand, still not sure about the "if you ask for more you are just GREEDY" style insinuations that were thrown about earlier by some of the Wyrd higher ups.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again.
You're asking that on a forum where the majority of people buy stuff from Games Workshop? At least Wyrd has started making nice again, something that we never really see from GW.
People should probibly be honestly impressed that they are making the effort. Me? I don't know.
I don't hold a grudge, but when you pee in my face and tell me its raining, it is pretty hard not to have some hard feelings over it.
May be the fact that I'm not one of the Kool Kidz here and don't hang out with Joe the Game Designer is the other thing. I already said my piece before on what ticked me off about the KS project.
Change what you want to, the damage is done.
My own personal opinion is that they honestly think that they are going to dictate how people are going to spend and decide on how people are going to jump on the bandwagon because they change a thing or two a few days before deadline and thats ok. That they are going to dictate the terms of the arrangement and decide for you, all the while handwringing and naysaying criticisims and downplaying legitimate issues.
Like I said before, the KS is a train wreck of epic proportions. Genuine greedy and based on past success. NOW you lost the very reason why you wanted the KS project in the first place. We're going back to that whole issue of using it as a sales site, even though these, "Project Managers" want to keep telling themselves that it isn't one.
DO I need a apology for your continued arrogance? No. Just a little bit of getting off of the high horse while your acting like anyone who has issue is making it up or just peeing on your union suit.
I'm not on the fence. The KS project is disingenuous to the point of insulting. The added insults of the other issues are just becoming icing on the cake to the WTF moment that this one is giving me.
HOW many weeks and this little bit is supposed to knock my socks off?
Of course the bandwagon jumpers are going to minimalise my issues, or tell me I'm making them up, though.
Bob might be a little confrontational, but it doesn't change the facts of the issues on deck. You started out the project peeing all over people and bad mouthing them for wanting legitimate rewards for the pledges, while you started out with crap. Evolving is a good thing, but to the other added insulting tone, your going to have to step up and put your money where your mouth is. You already have your "Wierd guys" from the board. and pretty much anyone else who is going to step up and pledge. NOW you are in the lose the confusion mode on just what exactly your trying to fund here.
Are you funding my collecting fetish now, based on your last weeks steller example performance on how NOT to run a KS project, or are you actually going to use the money to make an Malfaux RPG here?
When I started playing, I liked the game. I didn't have much of the issue until it started getting too big for thier britches with the big bag of smartass that developed with the success. Granted you can't do much about that, but thats just how I feel about it.
DO I really need anything for it? NO, BUT- the fact that you have a few people out here that have an issue with some of that said attitude and you hear about it is enough for me.
Will you do anything about it? Who knows, probibly not on the surface, but at least you hear it from someone who had a soft spot for the game, once. And not just one of the syccophants that are along for the ride to say they are one of the kool kidz.
Whilst I still liked Wyrd but had nagging doubts about them before this KS, I rank them with GW now in the "might buy something I really really want once in a blue moon if they release it, but thats about it".
recruittons wrote: Awww, I asked about getting my early backer status reinstated and was shot down. A little disappointing, but perhaps they will change their minds in the future! If not, I'm not mad at it.
Let this be a lesson to you. NEVER quit a kickstarter while it is running. Wait till the day before the end, examine your pledge and the value of what is available, then decide to leave, stay, or up your bid. You only hurt yourself if you do this pledge/cancel/pledge/cancel stuff.
Oh, BTW... FACEBOOK! LIKE! NAO! Both pics. Tweet and retweet it all, too.
DO EET!!
I agree in part....
BUT if nobody had pulled out do you really think the really positive changes in the campaign would have happened, I doubt it
I hate you Forar, I had the cash for a NE LCB, and I couldn't get my mitts on one D: So I settled for Teddy instead.
So, this is something I've been picking up on a lot. Extremely limited, collectible, "1990's hologram-cover Image comics" models seem to make up an inordinate amount of any discussion about Malifaux models. Is the whole company obsessed with this kind of Members Only exclusivity? Do they think it really makes new customers interested in buying their products when the fan community won't shut up about all the great stuff the proles YOU will never be able to own? Is there any reason Wyrd operates this way besides an addiction to smug fanboys?
1) The only reason I couldn't get my mitts on a NE LCB is because I started Malifaux after he was the GenCon Exclusive model. He sold out during his original run (because he's so much beefier and a more dynamic sculpt than the regular LCB). There was some other sale (it may have been a Black Friday Sale last year, but I'm not sure) but they had "found" another palette of NE LCB models, and they went and sold out again. This year, during Wyrd's Birthday sale there were 13 NE LCB that were not sold during the previous year's sale due to people ordering and not buying or something like that. So Wyrd sold them, and it was first come, first serve. I checked it on my phone while stopped at a red light. So I couldn't get one simply for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. There are plenty of "limited edition" models that are truly limited. Miss Demeanor, Miss Pack, the Gremlinette, NE LCB, NE Teddy, the Easter Warchicken and the Egg Thrower (a slop hauler dressed in a pink bunny costume ala A Christmas Story) and the Dead Justice Box. Some of these might be getting reproduced for special sales like the birthday, but for the most part they're all pretty hard to come by, and I do doubt that they would reproduce Dead Justice, NE Teddy, and the two easter specials just for their birthday sale, and not reproduce NE LCB, which would have garnered them a lot more in sales. This year is really only the first year that the "special edition" thing has kind of been an issue. Miss Terious, the Hanging Trees, and Santana are the first various special edition models that are produced in plastic. While the initial startup costs for plastic can be high, as Zwei pointed out a few pages ago, this isn't 2002. Once you get the mold paid off, it's sweet profits from there. So Miss Terious and the Hanging trees could be simply left overs from GenCon, with them producing more as needed (once the drive ends and depending on the level of funding hit). Santana Ortega is even more "rarer" than those because her initial run was kept a bit of a secret. She was the Henchman Exclusive model this summer, and was only offered to those henchman that ran enough events during the summer, or put in enough time at GenCon. I can't remember, but there may have been a post asking if the various henchers were allowed to tell their players about Santana to drum up interest. I believe the answer was no, simply because this was a reward to the henchman, and not his or her play group. Also, Idk if henchmen can get an exclusive model every year, because I've only been a henchman during 1 summer.
Rare, and special edition models are no different that other companies that offer them, and barring the Easter special models, I believe Wyrd only produces special models for GenCon's time period (mid to late summer, and the actual snow). Hannah's sculpt is the first that I've seen outside of some holiday or convention. So it's not a huge deal that there are these models that the average person won't be able to get, because they're never "special" in the way that it won't have a main game alternative. It's the exact same thing with the Dark Vengeance DA Chaplain, or the Crimson Fist 25th Anniversary model. These are special edition models that look cool, that people (for the most part) won't be able to get their hands on without going to eBay (my flgs has 1 of the anniversary model, and one original DV set still), but they're not more powerful than the regular version of their sculpt, their just different.
EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again. It would be one thing if the company admitted it was wrong or apologized, but that's not what happened. The only regret I sense on the part of Wyrd (besides the regret of the poor schlemiels on the front lines of communication for being stuck with this chicken shart outfit) is regret that they can't tell you where to go and still keep your money.
Would an "Oops, our bad" have really killed them?
First off, we all know that Mack and Justin brush regularly, and their spit is minty fresh . Secondly, many of the people that have been critical on this campaign have wanted the changes because they wanted to see it succeed. I'm sure there are a fair share of people that honestly were like, "Malifaux RPG?! NOT ON MY WATCH?!" and did their best to bad mouth the campaign. Buzzsaw and Cincydooley are probably the most critical people on the campaign (in this thread) and their attitude has changed (not like rolling a 40 on a diplomacy check), but Wyrd must have flipped the Red Joker on their (1) Marketing Campaign spell after failing to cast it turn after turn.
Grot 6 wrote: People should probibly be honestly impressed that they are making the effort. Me? I don't know.
I don't hold a grudge, but when you pee in my face and tell me its raining, it is pretty hard not to have some hard feelings over it.
May be the fact that I'm not one of the Kool Kidz here and don't hang out with Joe the Game Designer is the other thing. I already said my piece before on what ticked me off about the KS project.
Change what you want to, the damage is done.
My own personal opinion is that they honestly think that they are going to dictate how people are going to spend and decide on how people are going to jump on the bandwagon because they change a thing or two a few days before deadline and thats ok. That they are going to dictate the terms of the arrangement and decide for you, all the while handwringing and naysaying criticisims and downplaying legitimate issues.
Like I said before, the KS is a train wreck of epic proportions. Genuine greedy and based on past success. NOW you lost the very reason why you wanted the KS project in the first place. We're going back to that whole issue of using it as a sales site, even though these, "Project Managers" want to keep telling themselves that it isn't one.
DO I need a apology for your continued arrogance? No. Just a little bit of getting off of the high horse while your acting like anyone who has issue is making it up or just peeing on your union suit.
I'm not on the fence. The KS project is disingenuous to the point of insulting. The added insults of the other issues are just becoming icing on the cake to the WTF moment that this one is giving me.
HOW many weeks and this little bit is supposed to knock my socks off?
Of course the bandwagon jumpers are going to minimalise my issues, or tell me I'm making them up, though.
Bob might be a little confrontational, but it doesn't change the facts of the issues on deck. You started out the project peeing all over people and bad mouthing them for wanting legitimate rewards for the pledges, while you started out with crap. Evolving is a good thing, but to the other added insulting tone, your going to have to step up and put your money where your mouth is. You already have your "Wierd guys" from the board. and pretty much anyone else who is going to step up and pledge. NOW you are in the lose the confusion mode on just what exactly your trying to fund here.
Are you funding my collecting fetish now, based on your last weeks steller example performance on how NOT to run a KS project, or are you actually going to use the money to make an Malfaux RPG here?
When I started playing, I liked the game. I didn't have much of the issue until it started getting too big for thier britches with the big bag of smartass that developed with the success. Granted you can't do much about that, but thats just how I feel about it.
DO I really need anything for it? NO, BUT- the fact that you have a few people out here that have an issue with some of that said attitude and you hear about it is enough for me.
Will you do anything about it? Who knows, probibly not on the surface, but at least you hear it from someone who had a soft spot for the game, once. And not just one of the syccophants that are along for the ride to say they are one of the kool kidz.
My first instinct after reading your post was to either ignore it completly or try and trivulise it, but it got me thinking....
On some level I agree with alot of what you said, and you do raise some very good points.
Do I think this is going to become one of the highest funded kickstarter projects ever? No I don't.
Do I think this project was poorly run from the beginning? Yes I do.
Do I think that Wyrd's attitude towards this project sucked? Maybe, that's something I'm still debating.
Do I think Wyrd had piss poor communication from the beginning? Very much so.
Do I think the updates since Mack has taken them over help? Yes I do.
Do I think the most recent update changed the tone of the entire project? Extremly.
I think alot of your problems with this KS come from the fanboy nature of the big minature game systems in general, and I think the experiance would have been pretty much the same if any of the other big game companies had run a kickstarter. Yes, there are probably steps that Wyrd could have taken to mitigate that but for whatever reason they weren't done. Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.
I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.
Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.
I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.
I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.
I guess the thing that's so confusing to me is how starkly contrasted to the EBO Kickstarter this one has been. EBO was run using the 'successful' KS template. Solid Stretch goals. Multiple varied pledge levels. Lots of interaction. To do the Malifaux RPG one in such a different way indicates to me that one of those three steps created a problem for Wyrd. Honestly, I wish they would have simply found a solution to whatever problem that was and then applied it here as opposed to trying to drive around it.
Anyways, I think what they've done has reinstilled some faith in the company for me, and quite frankly they have Mack to thank for that completely (not that my patronage is THAT important, but...you know... just sayin.) I sincerely hope they can use this as a learning tool for the future endeavors and realize that perhaps it's the fans that are sometimes critical that can provide the most helpful feedback to you.
Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.
I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.
I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.
I have a feeling I'm included in that last bit haha >_<
There were alot of very good points brought up over the course of this thread and alot of the change we've seen can probably be related pretty closely to it. But I also think the weeks of relativly no growth the the project had something to do with it as well.
At the same time though EBO was essentially a product removed. While it does share some art and names with the skirmish game its a vastly different product to the point where no one was pre invested in it.
I think the most important change they've made to the project is by giveing it a face. Early on they came across as a faceless company trying for a money grab. Now they come across as Mack, the exciting RPG creator trying to make a better product.
Any time you deal with something people truely enjoy your going to get a very vocal group that will support them at any cost and loudly. Your also going to get a group of people that for whatever reason is going to do the exact opposite just as loudly. Thats what I think set the mood for this kickstarter... The Fanboy and the Anti-Fanboy, much more then Wyrd themselves.
I'm all for condemning a project or a company when they do something wrong. But if you condemn them for being wrong you also have to give them credit when they try to change. I think thats the important thing to take out of all this. Atleast they are trying, however late it might be.
I think this group is still where my largest problem sits. Clearly those of us that are consumers of Wyrd's product were able to affect change. While they may not say it directly (and they probably shouldn't) the directional change of the project and the few (very important and meaningful, IMO) posts on this thread by certain folks indicate that they did, in fact, listen to folks like Buzz and myself. My frustration stems simply from the fact that the change would have/could have happened sooner if there weren't so many people defending every move without thought or consequence, and subsequently berating and belittling those of us that were questioning how we were going to spend out dollar.
I have a feeling I'm included in that last bit haha >_<
I think alot of us in this thread would fall into one catagoery or another, but the suprising lack of red in this thread shows that while we may have disagreed we atleast were able to keep it semi-civil which is more then I can say for some other threads and comment sections about this project.
Btw, giving the latest Breachside Chats a listen, and Mack is going in depth with how damage and crits work. Interesting. One of the "serious crits?" is internal bleeding, he takes a moderate crit if he doesn't pass his action, 18 is addle-pated, highest one is obliterated that destroys that body part (not insta-death).
I'd also like to point out that, as it stands, the $125 tiers have the potential to become absolutely crazy value (yes, I used the V-word).
Looking at the "Dining Room"/Miniature tier (which is more popular than the double book edition by ~100 backers) you get:
The books
3 Multi-Pose Minis
The plastic special edition Fate Deck
Special Edition Hannah sculpt (actual 'rarity' to be determined)
Eh? Eh.
At 200k you get the Fate Master Screen and character sheets. Ehhhhh...
At 205k the pdfs come online. The two are quite reasonable, especially once we (hopefully) cement the top tier as getting Santana and the middle tiers start approaching the possibility over the weekend.
215k: up to 4 multi-pose minis.
Depending on how enthusiastic the backers and others are, somewhere in these remaining days it is feasible Santana will become available for the middle and even lower tiers. That's spicy as all get out.
Now, unless that last 48 hour surge is truly signficant, I'm doubtful of getting to 250k (much as I'd like the tree), but for a drive running light on 'swag' there is at least the potential for the bottom and middle tiers to be pretty solid deals. I feel that the top tier could use a little something to further distinguish it (assuming Santana ends up in lower tiers by the campaign's end), but we're a lot closer to a much higher value from the pledge points than we were a few days ago.
And I concur with most of the last few pages; while the first five minutes of the 'film' were great, the remaining parts of Act 1 and Act 2 left much to be desired. As we approach the climax of Act 3, sincere effort is being made to get things wrapped up well. If they do another KS for a project, I hope they take the lessons learned here (and from EBO) to heart, but for now, even as a voice giving critique (and not just purely critical), I feel this is a step in the right direction, and has some potential to make for a worthwhile backing.
But hey, if it's not your thing, that's cool too. Only so many hours in the day and dollars in the bank.
I honestly didn't mean a single person in this thread. I think the biggest difference between here and the actual KS comments thread is that everyone here has had really civil dialogue that has recognized some of the faults in the campaign. While perhaps my criticism may have come off as overly harsh sometimes (I've tried not to be, BTW), at least everyone here has seen it for what it is: criticism out of want of better, not criticism for the sake of being mean.
For those of you that have read the KS comments board, it's quite obvious that there are a fair few that are completely blind in their following of this KS; there are a few folks that are still 'hoping' to hit $300K.
I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.
Alfndrate wrote: I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.
Alfndrate wrote: I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.
But you'd still be stuck with that doll
God, I hate that doll. Hahahahaha.
I could sell the doll to Magikal Memories Also I'm still waiting on my fething plushie from EBO!
Alfndrate wrote: I am contemplating about upping my pledge back up to the gaming room. I'm sitting at the dining room gamer atm, and I get paid the day before the drive ends (with all bills being spoken for ). The bump up 100 dollars gives me a second set of the books for 60 bucks (rough estimate of retail cost), an 11.50 Fate Deck (based on the price of the other 2 plastic fate decks), which gives me a relative value of 71.50. I'd probably get a Santana at this point, which could help make my money back if I wanted to via the ebays. Idk, it's sitting on my mind.
But you'd still be stuck with that doll
God, I hate that doll. Hahahahaha.
I could sell the doll to Magikal Memories Also I'm still waiting on my fething plushie from EBO!
Did they ever say who it would be? I sorta hope it's Evil Baby Edward Teech. Or maybe Evil Baby Rasputin.
My simple answer to why I pledged after some of the stuff we saw earlier in the campaign is Mack caught the biscuit(s). He won. I made a gentleman's wager, and the man brought his A-game.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again.
You're asking that on a forum where the majority of people buy stuff from Games Workshop? At least Wyrd has started making nice again, something that we never really see from GW.
Good point. GW has just become a nonentity to me recently so I didn't even think about it. I guess you're implying that Wyrd is aiming just shy of that benchmark?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: EDIT: After the latest update, I have to say I'm really surprised. I'm surprised how many people are willing to let a company spit on them (metaphorically), lie to them and insult them, and then still come back when the company discovers it's losing money and starts making nice again.
You're asking that on a forum where the majority of people buy stuff from Games Workshop? At least Wyrd has started making nice again, something that we never really see from GW.
Good point. GW has just become a nonentity to me recently so I didn't even think about it.
While I don't think this is the forum to discuss that, I still maintain it's a bit....I want to use unfair, but it doesn't feel right...I think it's a bit off to compare GW to any of these other companies because their organizational structure is so very different. Being a public company they're beholden to different groups of people, etc, plus their customer service, while different, is just as good, if not better, than the smaller companies due to having dedicated support staff to handle it. As a result for me, my expectations change accordingly.
But, like I said, I'm glad to see the changes that were made to this campaign. Realistically, I think it's going to be set up to hit around $205-$210K, which will provide some solid stretches and will make it so there is less of a limp to the finish line, with I think is a great thing for morale.
Grot 6 wrote: It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.
I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.
The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.
Having just received a nice post Christmas gift of Dark Debts and his whole crew, I'm more inclined to mostly agree now that I have some more in hand. Graves and Tanner are still somewhat pricey (11 for a single figure), but the extra bits in the dark debts set in particular are quite nice. The low detail and weakness/snapping of my hanging tree and depleted isn't carried over. Also the scale fits better (seriously, I get they are drained, but two of those depleted are TINY), so it seems I managed the two worst sets to preview their plastics with. 16 for 2 beckoners is more or less in line with their previous releases like the nurses (14 for 2). Overall, about a 10% price increase with the new material, somewhat justified by the extra bits and new packaging. Also, less cussing, pinning, and green stuff involved in assembly.
But Nekima and the spawn mother are still too expensive.
In regards to the KS, I'm glad they are listening to feedback, even if a bit late. I've been very critical because I dont think its up to their normal standards, and I want/expect better of them. I'm really not sure why they weren't trying to push their prestige rewards more (even at this stage). If kingdom death wasnt also bleeding me this month, I totally would have thrown in for the gen con canon game (my best friend is however, so I at least get to hear about it after the fact). This was the kind of thing that needed to be on the pledge level, just like other campaigns have painted figs, greens, original concept art, etc. That's the kind of stuff that's not available at retail that lots are willing to pay a premium for.
Grot 6 wrote: It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.
I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.
The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.
Having just received a nice post Christmas gift of Dark Debts and his whole crew, I'm more inclined to mostly agree now that I have some more in hand. Graves and Tanner are still somewhat pricey (11 for a single figure), but the extra bits in the dark debts set in particular are quite nice. The low detail and weakness/snapping of my hanging tree and depleted isn't carried over. Also the scale fits better (seriously, I get they are drained, but two of those depleted are TINY), so it seems I managed the two worst sets to preview their plastics with. 16 for 2 beckoners is more or less in line with their previous releases like the nurses (14 for 2). Overall, about a 10% price increase with the new material, somewhat justified by the extra bits and new packaging. Also, less cussing, pinning, and green stuff involved in assembly.
But Nekima and the spawn mother are still too expensive.
In regards to the KS, I'm glad they are listening to feedback, even if a bit late. I've been very critical because I dont think its up to their normal standards, and I want/expect better of them. I'm really not sure why they weren't trying to push their prestige rewards more (even at this stage). If kingdom death wasnt also bleeding me this month, I totally would have thrown in for the gen con canon game (my best friend is however, so I at least get to hear about it after the fact). This was the kind of thing that needed to be on the pledge level, just like other campaigns have painted figs, greens, original concept art, etc. That's the kind of stuff that's not available at retail that lots are willing to pay a premium for.
Tannen is tiny, but I like how he comes with some bits (I stuck him with the pocket knife hand), but Graves I feel is worth his 11 dollar price tag. He's a big enough model, he's on a 40mm base, and he's got a couple of arm options. I've been adding heft to my Neverborn plastics (and all of them really) with the Orphanage base inserts, so my Mr. Graves is standing next to a fire place
And Nekima is only expensive because she's too expensive for her points NO ONE wants to drop 35 dollars on a solid metal model only to spend 13 points on her in game when her rules are lacking I've never seen the spawn mother on the table, so I might be inclined to agree with you
cincydooley wrote: I think Nekima is perhaps the best model in the range. I think she's simply fantastic. That alone was enough for me to drop the $$ on her.
I don't own her, I'm probably going to wait until she gets her rules errata'd and then dive whole hog into a Lilith Nephilim list.
cincydooley wrote: I think Nekima is perhaps the best model in the range. I think she's simply fantastic. That alone was enough for me to drop the $$ on her.
I don't own her, I'm probably going to wait until she gets her rules errata'd and then dive whole hog into a Lilith Nephilim list.
Haha, I did that on a whim right before GenCon. Nekima, Tuco, Lilith, a bunch of nephalim. Interesting, I believe some of the dark debts characters are nephalim! I think Graves is.
Yeah, was a bit disappointed to not see significant growth when got online today. $3k/day for the last week didn't seem like that big of a push, once that first $3k happened in an afternoon... was hoping the KS had new legs, now not so sure (though still in generally better spirits about their attitude)
When the cat's away, the mice will play! In about an hour (2pm PST) Mack and Justin are going to fire up Ustream and Justin is going to make a character! So join them at http://www.ustream.tv/user/Through_The_Breach !
Don't worry if you can't make it live, the video will be up on youtube shortly after, and links will go into today's update.
When the cat's away, the mice will play! In about an hour (2pm PST) Mack and Justin are going to fire up Ustream and Justin is going to make a character! So join them at http://www.ustream.tv/user/Through_The_Breach !
Don't worry if you can't make it live, the video will be up on youtube shortly after, and links will go into today's update.
Couldn't nail Eric down for the character creation?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, was a bit disappointed to not see significant growth when got online today. $3k/day for the last week didn't seem like that big of a push, once that first $3k happened in an afternoon... was hoping the KS had new legs, now not so sure (though still in generally better spirits about their attitude)
Hopefully it builds over the next few days. Presumably we'll have cemented Santana for the top tier, and remember they said there would be a 'game' the community could win, which would bump us at least 40% of the way to the middle tiers getting Santana as well (100 points out of the 250 or less needed, depending on how far we blow past the 500 mark).
I think we'll see a significant bump if Santana hits the middle tiers. Even if you don't value her at Ebay prices, considering what you get in either flavour it's a pretty hefty deal when you include her (the double book set alone it ~$120 worth, and the potential for the other to be books, 4 figure kits, Santana and Hannah, plus the deck, maybe pdfs/sheets/screen, etc). Yes, granted, some of that is contingent on the contributions and likes/shares/retweets getting us to 750+ points, and/or making at least another 20k over 6 days, but I remain hopeful.
If we do get Santana's for the 125/158 tiers, I suspect we may need a little something to sweeten the deal for the gaming room. Not in a sense of greed, just recognizing that I guarantee you some people pledged at that level specifically for her. If they can still get her and save $100-111, they might drop down again. Hopefully not many of them, but even 5 or 10 becomes a pretty hefty setback to funding. Of course, that may be an acceptable loss, as long as at least 1 new person joins for each person that drops, once Santana is more affordably available (losing $100-11 but gaining $125-158 isn't a bad deal, and if more join than drop down, it becomes even more lucrative towards final funding).
Edit: correction; the middle tiers are getting Santana's, according to Wyrd on Facebook. O.O
I think that a number of effects are at work here;
1) First and foremost, Publicity: The most recent update was a huge step in the right direction, but it also only served to alert people that are a) already pledging, or b) following this campaign closely on forums or social media. Now, it's fair to point out the whole point of the update was to increase awareness, but the complication is that by de-linking the additions from the pledge level, it's unclear what each level actually gets. Which leads to point 2,
2) Clarity: Right now I couldn't tell you what's in the pledge levels as a reward. The "Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand" may help to motivate people already pledged to spread the word, but it also means that, if you are interested in the Santana miniature, you have no idea what pledge level has one because the graphic isn't a live-updated device, it has to be manually updated. So sometime this evening, around 8pm EST, we'll find out if $225 pledges have Santana. The $125 and $60? Time will tell. Which leads to,
3) Uncertainty: We know that (hopefully) will be in the pledge levels, but until it's actually added, some people simply aren't going to pledge. If Santana and a 4th kit are what would sweeten the $125 pledge level to the point of being worthwhile... well, they aren't there yet. It's the "wait and see" attitude: people are waiting to pledge until what they want is reached, creating a bit of a Catch-22.
I think a combination of all three of those factors are at play, but the first is the most problematic. Buzz begets buzz, but it's unclear right now what can be done that hasn't already been undertaken. Mack's chats are very informative, but as I've alluded to before these chats provide fascinating insight into the design process... but they don't actually add anything. It's honestly unclear how many people would be persuaded to pledge based on increased knowledge of he game system, and it's equally unclear how many people who haven't pledged are even aware these chats exist at all.
This is not to say he shouldn't be doing them: more then anything they will pay a dividend later, when the game approaches retail availability they will no doubt be an invaluable resource for people wondering if it's worth picking up. It is merely the fund-raising appeal of them that seems somewhat unclear.
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Forar wrote: ...Edit: correction; the middle tiers are getting Santana's, according to Wyrd on Facebook. O.O
Bwaaa? Well, shows me to take so long writing a post, one of my points is already partially negated!
According to Wyrd on Facebook, the 125 tiers are also getting Santana.
Agreed, this needs to be updated on the Kickstarter page itself (ideally with a simple "This is what each tier gets now" breakdown list), but we're already there.
Be interesting to see how that influences people above and below (including non-backers).
Forar wrote: Since I just edited it in, I'll add this now;
According to Wyrd on Facebook, the 125 tiers are also getting Santana.
Agreed, this needs to be updated on the Kickstarter page itself (ideally with a simple "This is what each tier gets now" breakdown list), but we're already there.
Be interesting to see how that influences people above and below (including non-backers).
Edit: and then you edited in response to my edit.
We have to go deeper.
EditceptionBWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
I can't find anything about this on facebook (admittedly I'm on my facebook app)
There appears to be a miscommunication with Ratty, who updates the page. We hit the $225 mark (500 points) but not the $125 mark (750 points). We're fixing the issue now.
Miggidy_Mack wrote: There appears to be a miscommunication with Ratty, who updates the page. We hit the $225 mark (500 points) but not the $125 mark (750 points). We're fixing the issue now.
cincydooley wrote: You should probably just lie and say the $125 got the Santana Mack. I think that would really really boost the number of backers.
Yeah. I might consider going up to $125 if Santanna was in there... That'd get me the books, Ms. Terious (is there a pic of that yet?), and the two character sprues, right?
Cyporiean wrote: Thanks Buzz, I hadn't seen that before. That is a nice miniature, but not worth the current price.
If you mean the $100-200 they went for on ebay when they were extremely rare? Agreed.
If you mean when they're included within the other swathe of stuff you get with the Gaming tier? Not sure I agree, but I wouldn't argue it.
But once they're included in the Living/Dining room (125) tiers? They're practically giving them away. That's a giant pile of stuff along with a mini people paid more for alone, along with the books and either more books or a considerable pile of minis (5 including MPMs, Hannah, and Santana, 6 if you've got Miss T lined up. Plus maybe another MPM, the char sheet pad (...), FM screen and pdfs, depending on how the next 10-20k does or does not go).
If they make it down to the Core set tier that becomes pretty much pure shenanigans (of awesome). They're practically paying you to take it at that point.
And yes, even in my enthusiasm I recognize that by the time 1500+ of these hit the open market their ebay value will likely plummet to somewhere around the other limited edition figures (maybe $50'ish, rarely available after the initial rush), but even at $10-20 for a "nice and still relatively rare" figure it's a pretty solid addition to any of the tiers, particularly the first 3.
cincydooley wrote: You should probably just lie and say the $125 got the Santana Mack. I think that would really really boost the number of backers.
Yeah. I might consider going up to $125 if Santanna was in there... That'd get me the books, Ms. Terious (is there a pic of that yet?), and the two character sprues, right?
I hate to counsel dishonesty, but I will point out one advantage of an opaque system is it's easy to "fudge".
Cyp, as of now, the $125 pledge includes 3 mini kits, and will hopefully graduate to 4 in short order.
Yeah. I might consider going up to $125 if Santanna was in there... That'd get me the books, Ms. Terious (is there a pic of that yet?), and the two character sprues, right?
Three sprues (1 random). Also a plastic fate deck.
Alf, the big problem with promoting Miss T is the "rubbing it in your face" aspect for new pledges: saying essentially "isn't this awesome? You can't have one."
Of course, putting them back into pledges, that's a horse of a different (far more favorable) color...
Seriously, having that go away as an addition was and remains an almost irremediable issue for any future pledges.
I had a discussion about this on the backer forums (where I was promptly told to GTFO...); the value of a thing as a collector's item must not be confused with its worth. On the open market, I think it's entirely fair to value Santana around the worth of a KD pin-up, since that's what I at least would pay for a miniature of similar quality.
The problem is quite simply, if most people valued that miniature at $125 or so, Wyrd wouldn't be in this position. That it is, is because most people don't.
The problem with that spreadsheet is its hard to figure out what exactly every level is getting currently. KH:M has the same issue. From the looks of it, at a glance, I would already assume we hit the 250k mark since theres a 1 in that column. It would be nice if someone just broke down the totals as they are CURRENTLY, and then updated them as the goals get hit.
Santana has been successfully added to the 225 level, NOT the 125 level (yet). There was a miscommunication and it has been corrected on facebook. In the meantime, we're heading for Santana at 125 at a good pace and I think (hope) we can get it there before the end of the campaign.
recruittons wrote: If I might ask, what is the current amount of accrued points? I'm terribly curious
We will have all that up to date in the update today (don't want to say exactly as it may change before the final posting). But I can say Santana has been safely added to 225.
The problem with that spreadsheet is its hard to figure out what exactly every level is getting currently. KH:M has the same issue. From the looks of it, at a glance, I would already assume we hit the 250k mark since theres a 1 in that column. It would be nice if someone just broke down the totals as they are CURRENTLY, and then updated them as the goals get hit.
True, which I hope they include. Here's my take on it, apologies for any mistakes.
Early backer 1: Miss Terius: added to any backer at $60 or more who joined the campaign within the first few days (added for consistency, not to rub it in anyones face).
Early backer 2: A "penny dreadful" pdf adventure, added for those who joined within the first few weeks.
Living Room $125/158:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
1 male or female (random) Multi Pose Mini sprue (makes up to 3 figures).
Gaming Room $225/269:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
3 MPMs (1 male, 1 female, 1 random)
Hannah
Santana (hey it's Hannah Santana!! *CHEESY GUITAR RIFF*)
Unique hand made wicked doll
Secret Tier $500+
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
3 MPMs (1 male, 1 female, 1 random)
Hannah
Santana x 2
Unique hand made wicked doll
1 of the following: entry into Gencon campaign / character drawn in A book / painted Hannah + hardcover signed by team. Pick one, +1 for each additional $250.
Stretch goals active:
200k: $125+ backers get a Fate Master's screen (hide notes, perhaps have maps and quick reference tables on it) and a pad of character sheets.
205k: $60+ backers get PDF versions of the books.
215k: $125+ backers get an extra MPM, making for 1 of each for the Living Room tier, and 2 of each for Dining Room and Gaming Room.
250k: $125+ backers get a Hanging Tree limited edition figure (2012 Gencon exclusive release).
*750 "points": $125 backers get a Santana.
1000 "points": $60 backers get a Santana.
Apologies if I've missed anything, be happy to update accordingly.
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Salutations!
Some days it's just good to be me. I highly recommend it. Today is one of those days! As you can see by the "Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand" we broke 500 points, and unlocked Santana at the Game Room ($225) pledge level! For those of you keeping score, we are at 519 points!
That's not all! We also hit our 195k stretch goal, which adds the Special Edition Fate Deck to the Core Set ($60) pledge!
With that, comes an updated Rewards Graphic, which shows exactly what you get at each level. As we make new stretches we'll update the image with all the current rewards! It looks like we have less than 5k to go for the next stretch!
Now, I believe I promised a game... and I'm the sinister sort. Scattered about the internet are 5 pieces to a puzzle. If at least one of you can find and re-assemble them you win! Feel free to work together! What do you win? 100 points on the Back-O-Meter! That will get us a good chunk of the way towards 750 points now won't it? Now get hunting!
Forar, you're fast! You grabbed the update before Mack remembered to edit in the link to the video of us creating a character, which is a fantastic video, because I'm in it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A hint is dropped...
Creator Wyrd Miniatures 2 minutes ago
Should I give a hint? I think I'll give a hint on the last piece.
Tiny Porcines, Angry Ursines, and company toooooooooo
Buzzsaw wrote: I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!
It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.
If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.
One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.
What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.
Bob- While I agree that the super-LE-models thing is a bit of a turnoff for me (as I'm stuck on the outside looking in at them!) the update yesterday, and today, are both a pretty sweet turn-around for the company / way they're running this.
Mack is hilarious.
A puzzle piece was posted on Dakka!
That is all
(Note, I haven't pledged simply because I'm not an RPG player and I would only consider a minis-only pledge. But I definitely agree with "rewarding" positive behavior on the part of a company, and voting with my wallet for negative- hence my not buying GW, and looking to support other companies... potentially such as Wyrd)
Buzzsaw wrote: I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!
It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.
If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.
One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.
What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.
Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)
I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux, but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.
You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.
Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.
Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.
Buzzsaw wrote: I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!
It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.
If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.
One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.
What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.
Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)
I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux, but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.
You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.
Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.
Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.
I traded a copy of Netrunner for her at GenCon. Teehee. :-)
cincydooley wrote: I traded a copy of Netrunner for her at GenCon. Teehee. :-)
Nicely done!
Others have included them as prize support for tournaments, and yet other henchmen said that they ended up just giving some away, particularly when they didn't play Guild but friends or other local players did.
But the vast majority were left with ebay, and man, for a while it got ugly over there.
I'd rather get one 'for free' (included in costs I was willing to pay anyway) along with a bunch of other RPG stuff and swag than go forage on there. Got my Miss T for $30 there, but pre-KS Santana was way too rich for my blood.
Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.
Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here
Alfndrate wrote: Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.
Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here
@Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.
Alfndrate wrote: Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.
Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here
Are you saying you don't have a miss demeanor?
I may have committed one, but I do not own one I'd like to get my hands on the two misses I'm missing since I know I'll never easily get my hands on NE LCB or dead justice.
recruittons wrote: @Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.
I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!
Curses! Well then, I'll just have to content myself with drinking an excess of wine and painting my recent haul of minis. Oh, what's that Nix? You want me to paint you? Okay, I guess that's cool...
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should add, Nix is my first Malifaux mini
Alfndrate wrote: Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.
Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here
Are you saying you don't have a miss demeanor?
I may have committed one, but I do not own one I'd like to get my hands on the two misses I'm missing since I know I'll never easily get my hands on NE LCB or dead justice.
So.... I think I may have an extra miss demeanor. If I do she's yours. Lemme check.
recruittons wrote: @Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.
I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!
I'm going to go ahead and pull RAW here and remind you that Spiderman's exact words in Family Guy were "Everybody gets one."
Emphasis mine.
From this we can deduce that there is another way to get at this problem.
recruittons wrote: @Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.
I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!
I'm going to go ahead and pull RAW here and remind you that Spiderman's exact words in Family Guy were "Everybody gets one."
Emphasis mine.
From this we can deduce that there is another way to get at this problem.
Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)
I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux,
First of all, I keep telling you I am (was) a prospective new customer. I do not think that means what you think that means. Inconceivable, I know.
but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, (Lol. Customer relations!) restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.
Do you hear yourself? You seem to be defending the practice of creating so many unnecessarily limited minis out of their best pieces, yet your words make the very idea insane. "It was a popular product, one that people wanted to buy in droves. That is why it was only given to the select few, and then I guess the molds were destroyed." I guess after the kickstarter, Miss Terious's sculptor's eyes will be put out so that he might never again create something so beautiful. Or valuable.
To think, Mantic rewards their hardcore butt-workers with early promotional copies and resin masters of models they will actually sell. Morons. I bet they could never beat $200k in a Kickstarter.
(If you get caught up nitpicking my exaggeration instead of addressing the point that Wyrd made a crazy decision that lost them oodles of potential money and disappointed their fans, you'll win a special prize. Miss de Pointe.)
You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.
That sounds horrible. Why would I want to support a company that treated its fans like that? "You want it? Too bad! Haw haw haw!"
Oh, wait. They are now dangling this bait before the Kickstarter backers because they got desperate. What a nice, young company!
Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.
Does 'thank you' really count when it sounds so insincere and self-serving?
First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.
You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.
Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.
Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.
Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.
EDIT:
Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.
First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...
To get Santana, one only had to work three shifts over the course of 4 days, this could be something as being a part of the early crew on Thursday helping set up, this could be running 10 to 15 minute demos through the day, or you could be insane like me and work Saturday from 9 am to 10pm and get it all done in a day. And as it has been said, there was another way for Henchmen to earn Santana, and that was by running events in their local areas during the summer campaign. So, not only did this earn the henchmen, one or two Santanas (depending on how much they did), but it also netted them their normal henchman rewards for running events. Also to "cash in on it's desirability," Yes, because other kickstarters aren't doing that right now. Kingdom Death: Monster is giving away FAR MORE minis, I'll give them that, but plenty of those minis are only available in certain ways during the kickstarter. If I remember correctly, the "armor kits" that are being sold as options are coming in twenty figs for 50, and and 4 for 20? Yes, that's a great deal, but outside of the kickstarter you can only get these options via their individual expansions. How is it that this gets a free pass, but Santana, a model that people in Wyrd's community have been wanting for awhile, can't be given out? Should Wyrd charge for it? Would that ease your thoughts on this? As for overvaluing their band, Wyrd hasn't done that at all, thanks for the GW comparison, you could have just said it. You want heaping on of rewards? Then back the KS so it can start striving towards those goals. Everyone knows they can't offer more if there isn't the push behind them, I'm sorry you're not getting the entirety of Wyrd's line for 125 dollars, but dude you've got to be realistic in this.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.
You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.
Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.
Actually we don't know that because none of us work for Wyrd in a paycheck sense besides two posters, and they don't have to tell us because honestly it's not important who they originally wanted to get Santanas. This entire thread for the most part has been people going back and forth about the value of the pledge levels, and Cincydooley even said it thirty some pages ago that Wyrd needs to target their skirmisher gamer in this. Why wouldn't they offer Santana to the highest tier originally? Because a single mini wanted by the community could be more than enough to push some people up to that spot? Sounds like a business plan. Did it work? No, did they adjust it to help it work? Yes, the 225s are getting Santanas without needing the 500 backers at that level, and so now that she's been unlocked, there is more incentive to pledge the 225 level. And there is even more reason to pledge the 125 if/once she gets unlocked there. I'm sure some of the 60 dollar pledges will bump up to 125, because even if you go for the living room gamer, that's three books (roughly 120 dollar value), a fate deck (11.50), a multi-pose mini (11 to 21 dollars), Santana (I'll give her a 20 dollar value as though she were available in a store). That's easily worth the jump up, and one might argue that it's worth the jump up even more if you go for the Dining Room Gamer. And the "unwashed masses" paying a lot of money has nothing really to do with this. She has never been available for "purchase" from Wyrd before and as such you can't fairly argue that Wyrd doesn't want their average gamer to get their hands on her, you're just being flamebait-y. As we've said before, she was NEVER available to people originally because she was a thank you gift. Jeebus, how many times does it need to be said. She's still a thank-you gift in some sense, but this time it's a purchasable one.
Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.
Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.
EDIT:
Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.
Spoiler:
(She doesn't fall for his act of contrition)
Except it's nothing like a CCG, there's nothing collectible about wargaming (there are some pieces that are collectible, but not in the same sense as a CCG)! Companies release limited edition models all the time. Within arms reach, I have the Bombshell Bombardier & Druid Gone Wilder from PP, the AdeptiCon 2011 mini (that orc on the throne), The Black Kiwi from On the Lamb Games, Santana, and Nightmare Edition Teddy from Wyrd (Miss Terious would be on that list, but she's not on the shelf in front of my, or on my painting station lol). Also like a collectible card game, none of these are going to be illegal in 18 months! huzzah for that. But seriously, with the exception of the Wyrd minis, you cannot get your hands on any of the other limited edition stuff outside of eBay, so how come PP or AdeptiCon get this almighty free pass on their limited edition figures? Is it because they're not bringing them out and letting others have a chance at them? If that's the case, I'd rather always invest in Wyrd than any other company simply for the fact that I have a better chance of them offering a limited edition model I might be interested in.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: First of all, I keep telling you I am (was) a prospective new customer. I do not think that means what you think that means. Inconceivable, I know.
I was referring to the forums. I thought that perhaps you might've perused the Wyrd forums at some point. For example; I'm here on what is apparently a primarily GW forum, and aside from a few weeks in the MMO when it launched, I've never touched another GW product. Unless you count Hero Quest, though I believe that's a bit of a stretch.
Apologies for assuming you might've dug into the company, firmly fence sitting maybe-but-not-really Customer (with a capital C and everything!) that you are.
Points for some Princess Bride though.
Do you hear yourself? You seem to be defending the practice of creating so many unnecessarily limited minis out of their best pieces, yet your words make the very idea insane. "It was a popular product, one that people wanted to buy in droves. That is why it was only given to the select few, and then I guess the molds were destroyed." I guess after the kickstarter, Miss Terious's sculptor's eyes will be put out so that he might never again create something so beautiful. Or valuable.
To think, Mantic rewards their hardcore butt-workers with early promotional copies and resin masters of models they will actually sell. Morons. I bet they could never beat $200k in a Kickstarter.
(If you get caught up nitpicking my exaggeration instead of addressing the point that Wyrd made a crazy decision that lost them oodles of potential money and disappointed their fans, you'll win a special prize. Miss de Pointe.)
I've been playing for a year, and in that time they have released 5 Limited Edition models: 2 at Easter (I had no interest in either), Miss Terious, Santana and the Hanging Tree. 2 of which I might be getting through this KS, the third of which is a possibility (albeit a slim one). I'm not exactly blown away here. I come from a Magic: the Gathering background, where people pay more for a single piece of card stock than I would've for Miss T or Santana on Ebay. Sometimes dozens of times in a single deck. Wargaming is a seriously expensive hobby, but I'm no stranger to rare/hard to find items and promotional pieces. At least in this case I don't have to worry about those pieces actually doing something different in the game. Want to match my fearsome Miss T? I think Death Marshalls are $15 for 3. Give or take, they seem to release, like, 4'ish limited edition alternate sculpts per year. OH NOES!
We can add Missed Thepointe to the contenders from a few pages back, though.
That sounds horrible. Why would I want to support a company that treated its fans like that? "You want it? Too bad! Haw haw haw!"
Oh, wait. They are now dangling this bait before the Kickstarter backers because they got desperate. What a nice, young company!
If Santana was what it took to breathe new life back into the campaign, and they listened (god knows I've been dropping thinly veiled hints about it for ages), good on them for listening to what people wanted and giving it to them.
Does 'thank you' really count when it sounds so insincere and self-serving?
First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...
I think it's fine, which is self-serving to me as well. Through the magic of math, the self-serving's cancel out and we're left with a Thank You I Appreciate! Yay!
You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.
Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.
If Wyrd had no interest in giving the Santana's to the 125 tiers, why would they have run a contest with the community last night to get us 40% of the way there on it's own? Considering the sense of frustration that festered for a few weeks there, I imagine it would've been a lot easier to just have that tally bump up gradually over the remaining week but fall well short. Guess we'll find out in the next 5 days or less, but considering that roughly half of the backers now have an interest in participating, I think it'll happen by Monday or Tuesday, personally.
If anything, I think the opposite; they fully intend to get the middle tiers (their most popular ones by far) Santanas, giving people in the Core tier an extra reason to ponder jumping up, and anyone at the Gaming Room tier who are considering dropping entirely an option to drop down a little instead. Not that this is an ideal outcome for any KS, but presumably the math on the number of people who might drop down is outweighed by those who may bump up and/or join entirely.
Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.
EDIT:
Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.
Spoiler:
(She doesn't fall for his act of contrition)
*shrug*
If you're looking for me to feel bad, you're barking up the wrong tree. Not everything will appeal to everyone, and even with at least 2 from Wyrd watching, I have no interest in asking if that warm liquid you're spraying on me is a summer rain. Though it is a little sweet. You should see a doctor. I think that's a sign of diabetes. Or at least an old movie taught me that. It's probably untrue. Though checking your bile and vitriol levels might not be a bad idea, gotta keep in tip top shape.
Maybe you haven't read my lengthy diatribes, but I've been vocally critical of certain aspects of this drive since day 1. On their forums and later on here, because I wanted to see it get better. Others were even more critical than I, and while it may be too little, too late for some of their contributions, it has been refreshing to see people recognizing effort. Even if it isn't enough.
You, however, for someone who is utterly "un-invested" seem to be particularly emotionally invested in the kickstarter and how it has influenced you're opinion. You practically seem angry to be disappointed, which I find odd. Personally, when I find a product or company doesn't meet my desires, I shrug and move onto something else. Shame to hear Wyrd and Malifaux aren't for you, but with the raw negativity you exude I see no reason to try to change your mind. I enjoy the game, I hope others do, but at the end of the day the only person that I control the happiness of is myself.
Good luck finding a game/company you feel better suits your particular needs, and I bid you good day, sir.
Edit: I am full of bbcode fail here today.
Edit 2: and of course, the opinions expressed are purely representative of the participant, and not reflective etc etc etc.
Didn't see the Saturday post up yet, if I missed it, please don't ban me!
Salutations!
I'm at home today, but we're all having a good time and I just didn't want that to stop. As I'm not in the office, I won't be able to update the graphics and such to reflect the bonus points until Monday, but I wouldn't want that to stop me.
Congratulations to all of you on yesterday's puzzle. You solved it, by my calculations, in under 3 hours. And here I thought the one hidden on page 3 of that thread was clever! As of now, it brings us to about 626 points (although it's Saturday, so I'm just doing the math in my head).
The next one will have to be more difficult!
I thought I would take this opportunity to chat about the Creature Catalogue that we are closing in on! I have discussed these milestones a bit before, but I thought now was a good time to talk about it a bit more.
These goals aren't going to be left out if we don't make the pages I need to put them in. They will just need to be scaled back so that they fit. The Creature Catalogue is a great example of how that works. Regardless of our funding level, there will be creatures and monsters in the Fatemaster's Almanac. The game wouldn't be complete without plenty of things to fight, or make dark bargains with. Currently (as we are at about 197k) the creature section is a bit encyclopedic. I have a lot of information to squeeze in.
Looking at my book plan, I currently have about 100 pages dedicated to Fatemaster Characters (or NPC's). Much of the page count is spent detailing the game world for the Fatemaster. The sections I dedicate to the Ten Thunder's, for instance, have information on the organization, as well as stats and descriptions of masters, henchmen, and minions.
But what if I had more pages? What could I do with that space? Well, the Creature Catalogue I have knocking around my brain is a collection of research notes, diatribes, and impressions from a small group of "big game" hunters. This copy is owned by the illustrious Ria Dante-Ortega, and she heavily annotates the book by writing in the margins, or adding additional information on slips of paper she tucks in between pages.
Many of you may recognize this technique. For me, whenever one of my favorite RPG's employs the "in character document" it just floors me. I know Nathan is a big fan of the Volo Guides. I first saw it in the Street Samurai's Catalog (they use the other spelling) and it's still one of my favorite RPG books of all time. Recently, the Dresden Files RPG was written entirely with the technique, and it makes it a pleasure to read for any fan of the series.
It's a page heavy style, however, so that's why I want more pages! I'm already planning to handle the equipment section in this fashion. The gear chapter is presented as a Sears & Robuck style catalogue that is kept at the Guild Store, and various people have made notes on the yellowing pages. This is the sort of thing that can help make an RPG a classic. I want Through the Breach to be a joy to read for years to come, even for gamers who aren't typically Roleplayers.
Well, I think it's time I go take down the lights... it being January and all. See you all Monday!
To get Santana, one only had to work three shifts over the course of 4 days, this could be something as being a part of the early crew on Thursday helping set up, this could be running 10 to 15 minute demos through the day, or you could be insane like me and work Saturday from 9 am to 10pm and get it all done in a day. And as it has been said, there was another way for Henchmen to earn Santana, and that was by running events in their local areas during the summer campaign. So, not only did this earn the henchmen, one or two Santanas (depending on how much they did), but it also netted them their normal henchman rewards for running events. Also to "cash in on it's desirability," Yes, because other kickstarters aren't doing that right now. Kingdom Death: Monster is giving away FAR MORE minis, I'll give them that, but plenty of those minis are only available in certain ways during the kickstarter. If I remember correctly, the "armor kits" that are being sold as options are coming in twenty figs for 50, and and 4 for 20? Yes, that's a great deal, but outside of the kickstarter you can only get these options via their individual expansions. How is it that this gets a free pass, but Santana, a model that people in Wyrd's community have been wanting for awhile, can't be given out?
I just pledged for some armor suits. I'm spending less than $100 with KDM and getting things I actually want. Does it bug me that so many extras are only for $300+ backers? Yes. I hate to see that kind of inflation over the good old days when a nice $100-$150 pledge got you the VIP treatment in any Kickstarter. It felt like they really cared about the average "investor" back then. But you know what? When I was in for $31, I still got some kind of reward, plus a pdf, which was not only a sign that I mattered a smidgen to KD, but better value than anything I've seen in TtB.
Long story short, I'm a Kickstarter socialist. It's called crowdfunding, after all.
Should Wyrd charge for it? Would that ease your thoughts on this?
Absolutely. A $15 to $30 pledge increase would be high, but reasonable, and give everyone who is into the KS because they play the minis game a chance to get it. Putting it in the $225 pledge was just a Dick move. (As in something Dick Nixon would do.)
As for overvaluing their band, Wyrd hasn't done that at all, thanks for the GW comparison, you could have just said it. You want heaping on of rewards? Then back the KS so it can start striving towards those goals. Everyone knows they can't offer more if there isn't the push behind them, I'm sorry you're not getting the entirety of Wyrd's line for 125 dollars, but dude you've got to be realistic in this.
I think I am the one being realistic. The KS did die for a month. It couldn't have just been me.
Now Wyrd is literally offering the merchandise of contention for $125 pledge, and things are slowly turning around. Hmmmm.
Actually we don't know that because none of us work for Wyrd in a paycheck sense besides two posters, and they don't have to tell us because honestly it's not important who they originally wanted to get Santanas. This entire thread for the most part has been people going back and forth about the value of the pledge levels, and Cincydooley even said it thirty some pages ago that Wyrd needs to target their skirmisher gamer in this. Why wouldn't they offer Santana to the highest tier originally? Because a single mini wanted by the community could be more than enough to push some people up to that spot? Sounds like a business plan.
A manipulative, transparently exploitative plan, yes. I wonder how well it went over.
Did it work? No, did they adjust it to help it work? Yes, the 225s are getting Santanas without needing the 500 backers at that level, and so now that she's been unlocked, there is more incentive to pledge the 225 level. And there is even more reason to pledge the 125 if/once she gets unlocked there. I'm sure some of the 60 dollar pledges will bump up to 125, because even if you go for the living room gamer, that's three books (roughly 120 dollar value), a fate deck (11.50), a multi-pose mini (11 to 21 dollars), Santana (I'll give her a 20 dollar value as though she were available in a store). That's easily worth the jump up, and one might argue that it's worth the jump up even more if you go for the Dining Room Gamer. And the "unwashed masses" paying a lot of money has nothing really to do with this. She has never been available for "purchase" from Wyrd before and as such you can't fairly argue that Wyrd doesn't want their average gamer to get their hands on her
I think the bolded part is some hilarious doublethink.
Also, everyone finds different value in the pledge offerings. How many people besides the die-hard first-48 hour pledgers found value in the pledges you describe? Maybe I'll need a visual aide from Kicktracker on this one.
Obviously I am not speaking for the established fanbase here, who would have much more use and need for some rare model than me, the guy who wanted to see if Malifaux was worth getting into. Since you are in the former camp, I am trying to give you some perspective on what it's like outside looking in.
, you're just being flamebait-y. As we've said before, she was NEVER available to people originally because she was a thank you gift. Jeebus, how many times does it need to be said. She's still a thank-you gift in some sense, but this time it's a purchasable one.
Someone else said that Wyrd released 5 limited edition models this year alone. It doesn't come across like a thank you so much as a country club whose prestige is based on exclusivity. In that simile, I'm like the anti-Groucho Marx.
Except it's nothing like a CCG, there's nothing collectible about wargaming (there are some pieces that are collectible, but not in the same sense as a CCG)! Companies release limited edition models all the time. Within arms reach, I have the Bombshell Bombardier & Druid Gone Wilder from PP, the AdeptiCon 2011 mini (that orc on the throne), The Black Kiwi from On the Lamb Games, Santana, and Nightmare Edition Teddy from Wyrd (Miss Terious would be on that list, but she's not on the shelf in front of my, or on my painting station lol). Also like a collectible card game, none of these are going to be illegal in 18 months! huzzah for that. But seriously, with the exception of the Wyrd minis, you cannot get your hands on any of the other limited edition stuff outside of eBay, so how come PP or AdeptiCon get this almighty free pass on their limited edition figures? Is it because they're not bringing them out and letting others have a chance at them? If that's the case, I'd rather always invest in Wyrd than any other company simply for the fact that I have a better chance of them offering a limited edition model I might be interested in.
Do PP, et al release 5 limited edition models a year? If so, I hate them, too.
Just for the record, I actually do have a lot of distaste for PP, GW and many other companies. I used to love AoW, but their Indiegogo chilled my fiery heart. Wyrd is in good company.
And the CCG remark references the second hand gouge market, not game play.
Hey bob. That stuff that the herald of death level is getting? You can purchase all of that by itself. Herald of death just gets it for free. Jus sayin.
To get Santana, one only had to work three shifts over the course of 4 days, this could be something as being a part of the early crew on Thursday helping set up, this could be running 10 to 15 minute demos through the day, or you could be insane like me and work Saturday from 9 am to 10pm and get it all done in a day. And as it has been said, there was another way for Henchmen to earn Santana, and that was by running events in their local areas during the summer campaign. So, not only did this earn the henchmen, one or two Santanas (depending on how much they did), but it also netted them their normal henchman rewards for running events. Also to "cash in on it's desirability," Yes, because other kickstarters aren't doing that right now. Kingdom Death: Monster is giving away FAR MORE minis, I'll give them that, but plenty of those minis are only available in certain ways during the kickstarter. If I remember correctly, the "armor kits" that are being sold as options are coming in twenty figs for 50, and and 4 for 20? Yes, that's a great deal, but outside of the kickstarter you can only get these options via their individual expansions. How is it that this gets a free pass, but Santana, a model that people in Wyrd's community have been wanting for awhile, can't be given out?
I just pledged for some armor suits. I'm spending less than $100 with KDM and getting things I actually want. Does it bug me that so many extras are only for $300+ backers? Yes. I hate to see that kind of inflation over the good old days when a nice $100-$150 pledge got you the VIP treatment in any Kickstarter. It felt like they really cared about the average "investor" back then. But you know what? When I was in for $31, I still got some kind of reward, plus a pdf, which was not only a sign that I mattered a smidgen to KD, but better value than anything I've seen in TtB.
Long story short, I'm a Kickstarter socialist. It's called crowdfunding, after all.
Then you should be happy when a company opens up some of its stretch goals to the rest of the crowd... Just saying.
I think I'm done here. You say you're being realistic, but I don't see it that way. Good luck with your KD:M stuff.
Cincydooley, I'll totally take a Miss Demeanor, can we wait till next week when I get paid?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: First of all, I keep telling you I am (was) a prospective new customer. I do not think that means what you think that means. Inconceivable, I know.
I was referring to the forums. I thought that perhaps you might've perused the Wyrd forums at some point. For example; I'm here on what is apparently a primarily GW forum, and aside from a few weeks in the MMO when it launched, I've never touched another GW product. Unless you count Hero Quest, though I believe that's a bit of a stretch.
Apologies for assuming you might've dug into the company, firmly fence sitting maybe-but-not-really Customer (with a capital C and everything!) that you are.
Points for some Princess Bride though.
I'm fairly pressed for time online, generally, and tend to be fairly focused on what forums I visit. The only miniature wargaming forum I used to visit was Warseer, until the mod staff hulkraged over Kickstarters and essentially told everyone if they wanted to discuss the most exciting developments in wargaming they should go elsewhere. Now, I'm here mostly.
I don't frequent Mantic's forums, and I spent $500 on their products last year. I don't frequent McVey's forums or Dreamforge's, or anyone else's. I tried Reaper, but it wasn't working out too well. Besides, this is a viable community discussing Malifaux right here with Santana-paid spokespeople who can and theoretically will direct me to the information I seek without getting snarky.
There's a vast set of potential customers out there, and I think you'll find only a small, small subset of them are willing and able to put in some serious Santana's worth of time into perusing Wyrd's forums while still unsure they want to dive in. If only there were some sort of hench people to take on the responsibility of shepherding fresh blood into the Wyrd coffers, I think they would be quite useful for both casual customers and Wyrd alike.
Besides, I'm interested in Dreamforge, Gate of Antares, Mantic, Black Library, Iron Kingdoms novels, Sedition Wars, Kingdom Death, Malifaux, Infinity, Mercs, Reaper's Warlord, Super Dungeon Explore, DUST whatever, Dystopian Legions, etc., etc.. I am physically and emotionally incapable of supporting all of these companies/universes/ranges. The ones who come to me and make it easy for me to get hooked are the ones who get my dollars. That's generally how it works with potential customers. That's why Superbowl ads aren't just a bunch of urls telling customers where to go to read up on products they might like.
I've been playing for a year, and in that time they have released 5 Limited Edition models: 2 at Easter (I had no interest in either), Miss Terious, Santana and the Hanging Tree. 2 of which I might be getting through this KS, the third of which is a possibility (albeit a slim one). I'm not exactly blown away here. I come from a Magic: the Gathering background, where people pay more for a single piece of card stock than I would've for Miss T or Santana on Ebay. Sometimes dozens of times in a single deck. Wargaming is a seriously expensive hobby, but I'm no stranger to rare/hard to find items and promotional pieces. At least in this case I don't have to worry about those pieces actually doing something different in the game. Want to match my fearsome Miss T? I think Death Marshalls are $15 for 3. Give or take, they seem to release, like, 4'ish limited edition alternate sculpts per year. OH NOES!
We have different feelings on the matter. I'm not against limited or special models in principle, but I do find it distasteful when a company puts out so many of them and creates such a huge, unaddressed demand in the customer community. I find it disagreeable to see such a demand used to punish loyal customers, too. ("You're not pledging high enough. We were going to give you Santanas, but people stopped paying $redonkulous pledges to us, so now we're not going to unless you get your friends to pay it forward." Yes, they changed their mind when their cynicism caused a backlash, but that was clearly their attitude early on.) In the end, the Santana thing alone wouldn't have mattered much to me, but as a part of the bigger picture of this KS (as portrayed in the first 30 pages or so of this thread) it really makes me stand back and see things anew.
I also hate it when Star Wars models are sold in pallets where each pallet only has one Darth Vader, because everyone loves Darth Vader, so let's make him collectibly rare. They might as well just tell me they see me as the Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons, only with more OCD.
We can add Missed Thepointe to the contenders from a few pages back, though.
I appreciate that.
That sounds horrible. Why would I want to support a company that treated its fans like that? "You want it? Too bad! Haw haw haw!"
Oh, wait. They are now dangling this bait before the Kickstarter backers because they got desperate. What a nice, young company!
If Santana was what it took to breathe new life back into the campaign, and they listened (god knows I've been dropping thinly veiled hints about it for ages), good on them for listening to what people wanted and giving it to them.
If only they had listened before making it clear that in their eyes I was a greedy, cheapskate, swag-grubbing pre-orderer!
Does 'thank you' really count when it sounds so insincere and self-serving?
First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...
I think it's fine, which is self-serving to me as well. Through the magic of math, the self-serving's cancel out and we're left with a Thank You I Appreciate! Yay!
If you and everyone else feels that way, great. I don't.
If Wyrd had no interest in giving the Santana's to the 125 tiers, why would they have run a contest with the community last night to get us 40% of the way there on it's own?
Money. They were losing it.
Considering the sense of frustration that festered for a few weeks there, I imagine it would've been a lot easier to just have that tally bump up gradually over the remaining week but fall well short.
How does that follow? It's easy to keep doing what angers your customer base? The easy way out is to give in to the customers demands, but with an outrageous surcharge, without acknowledging that you are doing so as if it was always your plan.
Guess we'll find out in the next 5 days or less, but considering that roughly half of the backers now have an interest in participating, I think it'll happen by Monday or Tuesday, personally.
I'm sure they'll find a way to give lots of people the hope of spending $125 for something rare and collectible plus a couple of coffee table books/impromptu hills. But, will they get to 500 $225 backers without compromising their principles and making the $225 pledge actually reasonable? We'll see.
If anything, I think the opposite; they fully intend to get the middle tiers (their most popular ones by far) Santanas, giving people in the Core tier an extra reason to ponder jumping up, and anyone at the Gaming Room tier who are considering dropping entirely an option to drop down a little instead. Not that this is an ideal outcome for any KS, but presumably the math on the number of people who might drop down is outweighed by those who may bump up and/or join entirely.
Considering this KS was caught in a downward spiral, the math obviously works out. The question is, how many more $100k's would they have made if they did something like this at the beginning. I don't practice Santaneria, I ain't got no crystal ball, but I bet right now I would have been pleased as a peach over getting a Santana, and that Hanna that she found, and several multipose kits with my middle-tier rulebook pledge if things had unfolded differently.
If you're looking for me to feel bad, you're barking up the wrong tree. Not everything will appeal to everyone, and even with at least 2 from Wyrd watching, I have no interest in asking if that warm liquid you're spraying on me is a summer rain. Though it is a little sweet. You should see a doctor. I think that's a sign of diabetes. Or at least an old movie taught me that. It's probably untrue. Though checking your bile and vitriol levels might not be a bad idea, gotta keep in tip top shape.
The doctor only accepts payment in Lord Chompy Bitses. :(
I'm not looking for you to feel bad. I simply expressed (much earlier) that Wyrd's recent Come to Jesus moment hadn't convinced me, and a bunch of people demanded I explain myself. So, I did. Then they quoted me and responded in piecemeal. And then I did the same. And here we are. It's called a circle of verbal violence because it has no end (well, until I am no longer amused enough to keep clicking this link). A quote for a quote leaves the whole world neckbearded.
Or something.
Maybe you haven't read my lengthy diatribes, but I've been vocally critical of certain aspects of this drive since day 1. On their forums and later on here, because I wanted to see it get better. Others were even more critical than I, and while it may be too little, too late for some of their contributions, it has been refreshing to see people recognizing effort. Even if it isn't enough.
So, you agree they have mishandled this KS from day 1. You agree that it may be too little too late for some. I am one of the some. I am telling you why it is too little too late. I recognize that Mr. Martin and the other guy have done some great work and are really wonderful people, real mentsches, but it is still too late. Wyrd's behavior is a shonda, I say. Suddenly this is a problem for you?
You, however, for someone who is utterly "un-invested" seem to be particularly emotionally invested in the kickstarter and how it has influenced you're opinion. You practically seem angry to be disappointed, which I find odd. Personally, when I find a product or company doesn't meet my desires, I shrug and move onto something else. Shame to hear Wyrd and Malifaux aren't for you, but with the raw negativity you exude I see no reason to try to change your mind. I enjoy the game, I hope others do, but at the end of the day the only person that I control the happiness of is myself.
There's a saying where I come from: on the internet, everyone's a schmuck.
Of course I'm emotionally invested now--for days I've been reading a 30-something page thread full of ups, downs and a subtle face-heel-turn fall-from-grace no one saw coming! This is fantastically engrossing. Angry? More like exaggerated to make a clear statement. This is the internet. If I'm going to bother taking the time to post, I might as well post big. It's probably the same principle behind cheesecake minis: if you're going to sculpt female nudity, you might as well leave the realistic proportions and healthy body attitudes at home, buster. No one cares about that stuff.
Good luck finding a game/company you feel better suits your particular needs, and I bid you good day, sir.
Edit: I am full of bbcode fail here today.
Edit 2: and of course, the opinions expressed are purely representative of the participant, and not reflective etc etc etc.
Honestly, I'll still be buying occasional Wyrd minis and any cheap rulebooks (for the fluff) I find on Amazon. I might even do a wikipedia search on the background of Malifaux if I'm feeling particularly motivated. I just do not like what I'm seeing in this Kickstarter.
PS: I just bought some Ten Thunders archers yesterday because I needed some homoerotic Big Trouble in Little China figures for..uhm.. a campaign. Okay, I just like the hats.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cincydooley wrote: Hey bob. That stuff that the herald of death level is getting? You can purchase all of that by itself. Herald of death just gets it for free. Jus sayin.
I didn't know it all was. I'm buying some of it. It's also why I'm not too upset: no "You must be this rich to ride" sign for those who just want a nice mini.
No worries. Have fun building the archers. They're a gigantic pain in the ass. Really nice looking, but not the easiest to assemble.
And fwiw, I don't think there's any way it'll hit 500 backers at $225. Not a chance. And even foot doesn't "really" hit it for $125 they will say it did anyways to try and boost numbers for the last two days.
Enquiring minds want to know why it is so important for people that are not geting any free gak from the company to be imp-pressed by those of you that do?
I mean, the KS was gak until the changes came around? 20 pages or so around you guys were not hitting the kool aid so hard that eveyone else who was not in was outside the circle of kool.
Now we see the E peening and fawning of epic proportions, just on principle alone.
Bob was a little spastic in his presentation, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the project was in the beginning supposed to be about an RPG. Then we get two or three pages as to why its so great?
Why didn't you little gits push a few rules books, or starter sets as add ons, or buy ins? Wheres the rest of the range? And then there is the issue of the world itself......
And all your worried about is one or two extra get them here first figures? Thanks, I guess for throwing a biscut, no matter if you dropped it in the toilet or not.
I'm much more interested in the "Make your own crew and run your own deck" line of thinking that this game is either intentionally or unintentionally holding over peoples heads from bringing to the table.
You want an RPG? What about the table top potential for making that happen?
Point here is that you don't have to spread the cheese so much that you lose the message.
They "Improved the project by offering a couple of minis at a lower rate"... Thats great, but you disparaged people in the offset by writing up a project in such a way that your trying to dictate the terms of how people will or will not spend to support a project. You called them off handedly that they were grubbing for supporters options. You bring in the kool aid krew to disparage any and all dissent, and minimalize potential customers.
A little humility goes a long way, you know. Especially when 2 years ago at this time, Wierd was scrounging interest and selling a new little game called Maulfaux with an interesting new concept and some really neat looking base sets and characters.
And Bobs point of you being only one grain of sand on the beach still holds true. Seeing as we are seeing 10-20 KICKSTARTERS a month that are doing the dictating of how people are going to be spending thier money for potentially the next five years if not longer.
Well, 200k appears to be down (at the moment; this campaign has the tendency to shift quite hard in reverse, it's looking like this time it might stick, though).
This would add the pad of sheets, the FM screen, and allow for the expanded creature catalogue to get into the book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Aaaaand it's gone.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Besides, I'm interested in Dreamforge, Gate of Antares, Mantic, Black Library, Iron Kingdoms novels, Sedition Wars, Kingdom Death, Malifaux, Infinity, Mercs, Reaper's Warlord, Super Dungeon Explore, DUST whatever, Dystopian Legions, etc., etc.. I am physically and emotionally incapable of supporting all of these companies/universes/ranges. The ones who come to me and make it easy for me to get hooked are the ones who get my dollars. That's generally how it works with potential customers. That's why Superbowl ads aren't just a bunch of urls telling customers where to go to read up on products they might like.
I'm with you on this one. Sounds like you have piles of games pulling for your dollars, and with a new condo cohabitation looming in 2 weeks, I'm already starting to throw things out, give things away, and eyeing parts of games and collections I haven't touched in years that might be better turned into disposable income (here, other kickstarters, feeding a crippling Steam habit, etc).
We have different feelings on the matter. I'm not against limited or special models in principle, but I do find it distasteful when a company puts out so many of them and creates such a huge, unaddressed demand in the customer community. I find it disagreeable to see such a demand used to punish loyal customers, too. ("You're not pledging high enough. We were going to give you Santanas, but people stopped paying $redonkulous pledges to us, so now we're not going to unless you get your friends to pay it forward." Yes, they changed their mind when their cynicism caused a backlash, but that was clearly their attitude early on.) In the end, the Santana thing alone wouldn't have mattered much to me, but as a part of the bigger picture of this KS (as portrayed in the first 30 pages or so of this thread) it really makes me stand back and see things anew.
There's no two ways about it, a limited edition model is being used to help boost interest, and whether that was their plan originally or not (we'll never know for sure), at least it seems to be working. They went from gaining like $25 in a week to around 8-9k in 3-4 days. It's not exactly blowing up, but combined with the altered/short stretch goals, we just hit the 195k bump to improve the core ($60) tier with one of the decks, and hit the 200k tier for book improvements and the screen/char sheet pad. I'm pretty optimistic that the revised 205k for the pdfs will be hit, which is also something people wanted (would be nice to see a reasonably priced pdf only tier along with it). As for our discussion of Santana making it to the middle tier, according to Mack we're around roughly 625/750 "points", and there will be another community contest lined up. Even at another 50/75/100 points earned with whatever puzzle they put forth, you can't tell me that isn't essentially all but giving it to those tiers, and making it something the group works on together (here, the Wyrd forums, the KS comments page, perhaps the SA forum thread next time, etc) is at least a step in the right direction of making it a community adventure, as it were. Wish it'd been that way from the start, but I do believe recognition should be given when it's due. Too little too late for some backers perhaps, but I guess I just lean on the 'better late than never' side. Would it have been better to not make adjustments and just let this thing wallow in the 191-192 range for the remaining week?
If only they had listened before making it clear that in their eyes I was a greedy, cheapskate, swag-grubbing pre-orderer!
KS is a lot of things to a lot of people, but believe me, I'm the last person you'll see arguing against it being a glorified pre-order system. Hell, I had a 2 page debate with some folks on the Wyrd forums about that point in particular. I pay Bioware $100 3 months in advance, I get a spiffy ME3 Collector's Edition with a tin and hoody for my Shepard and a little Normandy Lithograph etc, etc, versus I give Wyrd $158 or $269 and get the books and some figures and decks (and maybe a doll) etc etc. The reasoning may be different, but as a consumer the outcome is essentially the same. Just so happens that unlike most pre-orders, there's more than 1 or 2 tiers. (there's six four!)
If Wyrd had no interest in giving the Santana's to the 125 tiers, why would they have run a contest with the community last night to get us 40% of the way there on it's own?
Money. They were losing it.
And now they're not. Which is a change in the direction of your point, which was originally that you doubted Wyrd ever intended to give Santana's to the 125 crew. And even if that were true originally (again, to never be known for sure), they seem to be all but giving 'em behind a guise of social media efforts and little puzzles.
I still contend that the final piece was not, in fact, on the third page of the KS thread. Some of us adjust our posts per page. Only crazy people keep it at 10. >.>
I'm sure they'll find a way to give lots of people the hope of spending $125 for something rare and collectible plus a couple of coffee table books/impromptu hills. But, will they get to 500 $225 backers without compromising their principles and making the $225 pledge actually reasonable? We'll see.
Why does it matter if they get to 500 $225 backers? The 225's are getting Santana no matter what, the original 500 contributor goal has been dropped. That said, they're at 377 as of the writing of this post, prior to which they'd been hovering around 350-365 or so. A big leap? Not really, but like with the funding total, it's finally moving in a generally upwards direction again. I do think that if the 125's get Santana that it might be worth looking at sweetening the deal at 225, but that remains to be seen. Again, a deck, a doll and a pair of books for $111 isn't exactly blowing me over.
Considering this KS was caught in a downward spiral, the math obviously works out. The question is, how many more $100k's would they have made if they did something like this at the beginning. I don't practice Santaneria, I ain't got no crystal ball, but I bet right now I would have been pleased as a peach over getting a Santana, and that Hanna that she found, and several multipose kits with my middle-tier rulebook pledge if things had unfolded differently.
No argument here. Should Wyrd run another KS at some point, I hope they take lessons learned from this one and EBO (and others that have succeeded) to improve it. That doesn't mean "I hope they run it like KD:M" or whatever the latest gaming KS hotness might be. Just... in a fashion that draws the community in more easily. More info available at the start, perhaps not as long a drive (we knew momentum wouldn't keep up forever, but a month and a half was a long haul), whatever.
I'm not looking for you to feel bad. I simply expressed (much earlier) that Wyrd's recent Come to Jesus moment hadn't convinced me, and a bunch of people demanded I explain myself. So, I did. Then they quoted me and responded in piecemeal. And then I did the same. And here we are. It's called a circle of verbal violence because it has no end (well, until I am no longer amused enough to keep clicking this link). A quote for a quote leaves the whole world neckbearded.
Or something.
I'll have to read back, but I certainly don't recall trying to neckbeard you into submission.
So, you agree they have mishandled this KS from day 1. You agree that it may be too little too late for some. I am one of the some. I am telling you why it is too little too late. I recognize that Mr. Martin and the other guy have done some great work and are really wonderful people, real mentsches, but it is still too late. Wyrd's behavior is a shonda, I say. Suddenly this is a problem for you?
Perhaps you're misconstruing me with someone else, but I've stated several times that I hold no issue with people for whom this KS doesn't hold appeal. I'd like to spread information so that they can make the most informed choice possible, rather than going on misinformation or a gut feeling, but I know what it's like. I get seeing a dozen KS's I want to back, an entire faction I'd like to buy, and a Steam sale that holds a risk of eating my credit card alive. We all have to set priorities, and unfortunately sometimes the things I'm excited about just aren't going to be enough to excite others. Also, today I learned what a shonda is.
There's a saying where I come from: on the internet, everyone's a schmuck.
Of course I'm emotionally invested now--for days I've been reading a 30-something page thread full of ups, downs and a subtle face-heel-turn fall-from-grace no one saw coming! This is fantastically engrossing. Angry? More like exaggerated to make a clear statement. This is the internet. If I'm going to bother taking the time to post, I might as well post big. It's probably the same principle behind cheesecake minis: if you're going to sculpt female nudity, you might as well leave the realistic proportions and healthy body attitudes at home, buster. No one cares about that stuff.
Honestly, I'll still be buying occasional Wyrd minis and any cheap rulebooks (for the fluff) I find on Amazon. I might even do a wikipedia search on the background of Malifaux if I'm feeling particularly motivated. I just do not like what I'm seeing in this Kickstarter.
PS: I just bought some Ten Thunders archers yesterday because I needed some homoerotic Big Trouble in Little China figures for..uhm.. a campaign. Okay, I just like the hats.
Well I'm glad we can at least discuss this at length. While no stranger to hyperbole (it is the internet, after all), you seemed awfully wrapped up in the matter. This post comes across as far more reasonable and conversational, and I appreciate that. If you can find the books cost effectively, I think the fluff alone will make for an enjoyable read, so I wish you luck with that. God knows I have enough books (rpg and otherwise) I keep around for curling up with on an otherwise ugly day. When they're not all stuffed in boxes. Ye gods this place is a mess.
Anyway, good luck with those Archers. I'll second having heard they're not easy to assemble. Miss Terious was my first plastic model (period, ever) and it was a pretty smooth assembly, but my sprues of the new Guild Box Set and Guild Riflemen made me boggle a bit before putting them away for the next few weeks. Those are gonna have to wait until the move is done.
Edit: 200,700, looks like the 200k stretch goals are pretty solidly earned, and with a decent chunk towards 205k (the pdfs).
I'm fairly pressed for time online, generally, and tend to be fairly focused on what forums I visit. The only miniature wargaming forum I used to visit was Warseer, until the mod staff hulkraged over Kickstarters and essentially told everyone if they wanted to discuss the most exciting developments in wargaming they should go elsewhere. Now, I'm here mostly.
So we have Warseer to thank for your presence here.
Seriously, we get it, you aren't a fan and even though Wyrd has listened to the feedback given by posters here and elsewhere, it doesn't matter to you because they often release limited edition figures (which is about on par with the reincarnation of Mechahitler in your eyes), so therefore you aren't backing this kickstarter that you probably weren't even interested in to begin with.
You've made it abundantly clear. Please stop posting so the rest of us can discuss what we are going to do with our little plastic toys and rpg books (which, at least for me, will include making at least some machine gun noises).
With only a few days to go, and with another stretch goal being hit, I couldn't help but make another weekend update! It looks like we have broken over 200k and added the character sheets and FM screen to the $125 pledge levels and up!
Now for some reason, I thought I had described the pad of character sheets in an earlier update. I'm not sure what I was thinking because it looks like I never did that! I am going to take this opportunity to correct the situation!
The pad of character sheets aren't the same as those that will go in the back of the book, or online for download once the game goes live. The "back of the book" sheet is the one you guys saw Justin using during the character creation video. It's not finished, as things will change during development, but it's graphically well under way, it's just a matter of figuring out where to put all the boxes.
The Pad of Character Sheets is going to be something else entirely. Currently, my plan is to design the sheets so that they can be folded, and will appear to be immigration paperwork into Malifaux. This will add some "prop flare" to the game table experience. If it's possible, they might even be double sided, with multiple graphic stamps/stains so that the pad contains sheets with different appearances, so that the game group can easily tell their sheets apart.
It's also one of those tools that will be tested during the development cycle. That way the Kickstarter Backers have a chance to influence the appearance, and what goes on the sheet.
I'll get the Kickstarter graphics fixed up tomorrow, and everything should be updated soon. I just wanted to give a hearty thank you to all of your for your support. Seeing us break 200k, and still climbing, is a fantastic sight! I can't wait to s ee where the next few days take us!
Alfndrate wrote: Thanks for covering the updates today and yesterday Brook I've had a busy weekend. And by busy, I mean playing Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising...
I'm more excited now about the pad of character sheets than when I thought it was just a pad of character sheets! I'm easily amused
Also, fatemaster screen I'm most excited for those simple because I'm going to get shackled down as fatemaster lol so w/e makes my life easier
The sad thing is, it seems that the pad of character sheets is really a very specific promo item... which might have been good to know. Four weeks ago.
Alfndrate wrote: Thanks for covering the updates today and yesterday Brook I've had a busy weekend. And by busy, I mean playing Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising...
I'm more excited now about the pad of character sheets than when I thought it was just a pad of character sheets! I'm easily amused
Also, fatemaster screen I'm most excited for those simple because I'm going to get shackled down as fatemaster lol so w/e makes my life easier
The sad thing is, it seems that the pad of character sheets is really a very specific promo item... which might have been good to know. Four weeks ago.
You know what though... nothing about the character sheets says they're kickstarter exclusive... We might see them for sale in the future, *shrugs* who knows. And I agree, knowing how they differ from the regular character sheets (or that they did differ lol) would have been great to know.
Alfndrate wrote: Thanks for covering the updates today and yesterday Brook I've had a busy weekend. And by busy, I mean playing Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising...
I'm more excited now about the pad of character sheets than when I thought it was just a pad of character sheets! I'm easily amused
Also, fatemaster screen I'm most excited for those simple because I'm going to get shackled down as fatemaster lol so w/e makes my life easier
The sad thing is, it seems that the pad of character sheets is really a very specific promo item... which might have been good to know. Four weeks ago.
You know what though... nothing about the character sheets says they're kickstarter exclusive... We might see them for sale in the future, *shrugs* who knows. And I agree, knowing how they differ from the regular character sheets (or that they did differ lol) would have been great to know.
Good point, if they are as intricate as now described, there is a real possibility that they would be for sale later. Maybe. Who knows? Who indeed...
I'm with you on this one. Sounds like you have piles of games pulling for your dollars, and with a new condo cohabitation looming in 2 weeks, I'm already starting to throw things out, give things away, and eyeing parts of games and collections I haven't touched in years that might be better turned into disposable income (here, other kickstarters, feeding a crippling Steam habit, etc).
Yes, we are burdened by choice. I look at my models and say, this too shall pass.
(Wish the dog would stop eating them.)
There's no two ways about it, a limited edition model is being used to help boost interest, and whether that was their plan originally or not (we'll never know for sure), at least it seems to be working. They went from gaining like $25 in a week to around 8-9k in 3-4 days. It's not exactly blowing up, but combined with the altered/short stretch goals, we just hit the 195k bump to improve the core ($60) tier with one of the decks, and hit the 200k tier for book improvements and the screen/char sheet pad. I'm pretty optimistic that the revised 205k for the pdfs will be hit, which is also something people wanted (would be nice to see a reasonably priced pdf only tier along with it). As for our discussion of Santana making it to the middle tier, according to Mack we're around roughly 625/750 "points", and there will be another community contest lined up. Even at another 50/75/100 points earned with whatever puzzle they put forth, you can't tell me that isn't essentially all but giving it to those tiers, and making it something the group works on together (here, the Wyrd forums, the KS comments page, perhaps the SA forum thread next time, etc) is at least a step in the right direction of making it a community adventure, as it were. Wish it'd been that way from the start, but I do believe recognition should be given when it's due. Too little too late for some backers perhaps, but I guess I just lean on the 'better late than never' side. Would it have been better to not make adjustments and just let this thing wallow in the 191-192 range for the remaining week?
Making her available straight out as an add-on pledge, with free copies for the big spenders would have been preferable. Also, some sort of Mea Culpa over their previous passive aggression and a rethink of their pledge levels to give fans of the TT game--their base--some levels to really get excited about. "You play my way or the highway! Wait, where are you going?" is not the ideal form of customer relations.
KS is a lot of things to a lot of people, but believe me, I'm the last person you'll see arguing against it being a glorified pre-order system. Hell, I had a 2 page debate with some folks on the Wyrd forums about that point in particular. I pay Bioware $100 3 months in advance, I get a spiffy ME3 Collector's Edition with a tin and hoody for my Shepard and a little Normandy Lithograph etc, etc, versus I give Wyrd $158 or $269 and get the books and some figures and decks (and maybe a doll) etc etc. The reasoning may be different, but as a consumer the outcome is essentially the same. Just so happens that unlike most pre-orders, there's more than 1 or 2 tiers. (there's six four!)
And yet they make it so hard to pre-order what I really want. Well, maybe the word is not hard, but unappealing.
Money. They were losing it.
And now they're not. Which is a change in the direction of your point, which was originally that you doubted Wyrd ever intended to give Santana's to the 125 crew. And even if that were true originally (again, to never be known for sure), they seem to be all but giving 'em behind a guise of social media efforts and little puzzles.
You see this as listening to the fans after a brief Denethorian insanity. I see it as them listening to the bottom line when they realized those stupid customers weren't following the plan. Tomato/tomahto.
I still contend that the final piece was not, in fact, on the third page of the KS thread. Some of us adjust our posts per page. Only crazy people keep it at 10. >.>
No idea what you're talking about.
I'm sure they'll find a way to give lots of people the hope of spending $125 for something rare and collectible plus a couple of coffee table books/impromptu hills. But, will they get to 500 $225 backers without compromising their principles and making the $225 pledge actually reasonable? We'll see.
Why does it matter if they get to 500 $225 backers? The 225's are getting Santana no matter what, the original 500 contributor goal has been dropped. That said, they're at 377 as of the writing of this post, prior to which they'd been hovering around 350-365 or so. A big leap? Not really, but like with the funding total, it's finally moving in a generally upwards direction again. I do think that if the 125's get Santana that it might be worth looking at sweetening the deal at 225, but that remains to be seen. Again, a deck, a doll and a pair of books for $111 isn't exactly blowing me over.
I was referring to the original goal, which was just audacious and passive-aggressive in equal measure. Sure, they changed things, but only because they were losing money, and not because they went on some spiritual journey and discovered the Meaning of Kickstarter. (Amazon Payments bless us, every one.)
No argument here. Should Wyrd run another KS at some point, I hope they take lessons learned from this one and EBO (and others that have succeeded) to improve it. That doesn't mean "I hope they run it like KD:M" or whatever the latest gaming KS hotness might be. Just... in a fashion that draws the community in more easily. More info available at the start, perhaps not as long a drive (we knew momentum wouldn't keep up forever, but a month and a half was a long haul), whatever.
KDM got very lucky with their timing--opposite TtB, they look like The Shart. Opposite Dreadball or Reaper Bones or Dreamforge or Trollforge, they would have really struggled to compete for the average wargamer's dollar.
And yes, I hope Wyrd performs much better and learns from their (sort of) failure and others' successes.
I'm not looking for you to feel bad. I simply expressed (much earlier) that Wyrd's recent Come to Jesus moment hadn't convinced me, and a bunch of people demanded I explain myself. So, I did. Then they quoted me and responded in piecemeal. And then I did the same. And here we are. It's called a circle of verbal violence because it has no end (well, until I am no longer amused enough to keep clicking this link). A quote for a quote leaves the whole world neckbearded.
Or something.
I'll have to read back, but I certainly don't recall trying to neckbeard you into submission.
I'm not claiming you were necessarily, but it is an unfortunate fact that breaking down a quote and responding line by line causes unsightly hair growth in the neck region. We're all guilty of this, me more than most, but you can't hardly argue about companies that produce little pew-pew plastic men to play with without getting a bit of unwanted throat stubble.
Why else would so many people get so mad that I had a different opinion?
(Really, I was just trying to keep myself interested at this point with the paraphrasing and silly references. I think i also quoted a Sublime song and Gloria Gaynor at some point. Without setting those kinds of personal challenges for myself, I could never maintain interest long enough to reply to a full post.)
Perhaps you're misconstruing me with someone else, but I've stated several times that I hold no issue with people for whom this KS doesn't hold appeal. I'd like to spread information so that they can make the most informed choice possible, rather than going on misinformation or a gut feeling, but I know what it's like. I get seeing a dozen KS's I want to back, an entire faction I'd like to buy, and a Steam sale that holds a risk of eating my credit card alive. We all have to set priorities, and unfortunately sometimes the things I'm excited about just aren't going to be enough to excite others. Also, today I learned what a shonda is.
I may be confusing several people. The memory is not so good. I just know I posted my opinion about Wyrd's handling of the kS, and suddenly I'm neckbeard deep in quotes of quotes of quotes. And I have to go deeper. Zo, I apologise if I was confusing you with someone else or if I had lost your point over the quotation generations.
And you give me such naches.
There's a saying where I come from: on the internet, everyone's a schmuck.
Of course I'm emotionally invested now--for days I've been reading a 30-something page thread full of ups, downs and a subtle face-heel-turn fall-from-grace no one saw coming! This is fantastically engrossing. Angry? More like exaggerated to make a clear statement. This is the internet. If I'm going to bother taking the time to post, I might as well post big. It's probably the same principle behind cheesecake minis: if you're going to sculpt female nudity, you might as well leave the realistic proportions and healthy body attitudes at home, buster. No one cares about that stuff.
Honestly, I'll still be buying occasional Wyrd minis and any cheap rulebooks (for the fluff) I find on Amazon. I might even do a wikipedia search on the background of Malifaux if I'm feeling particularly motivated. I just do not like what I'm seeing in this Kickstarter.
PS: I just bought some Ten Thunders archers yesterday because I needed some homoerotic Big Trouble in Little China figures for..uhm.. a campaign. Okay, I just like the hats.
Well I'm glad we can at least discuss this at length. While no stranger to hyperbole (it is the internet, after all), you seemed awfully wrapped up in the matter.
You haven't seen the threads where I started quoting Melville, then. (Okay, Wrath of Khan, but still!)
I simply need to make posting fun or I'll just walk away when the quoting gets tough, and then people will mistake my lack of interest with defeat, and I'll have to read one of those posts with a picture that says, "Concession accepted, Captain Needa. :smugdog:" And I hate that.
This post comes across as far more reasonable and conversational, and I appreciate that.
I wasn't as bored and you weren't as riled up as some of the others. It's hard not to reply to "Why U HAET??" posts with something equally silly.
If you can find the books cost effectively, I think the fluff alone will make for an enjoyable read, so I wish you luck with that. God knows I have enough books (rpg and otherwise) I keep around for curling up with on an otherwise ugly day. When they're not all stuffed in boxes. Ye gods this place is a mess.
RPG background is great when I just want to use my imagination to make pew-pew stabby-stab noises with my mini mens. Full novels make me think about character growth and themes and stuff, and it's harder to work that in to a blaarrgh, orkanoids! scenario.
Anyway, good luck with those Archers. I'll second having heard they're not easy to assemble. Miss Terious was my first plastic model (period, ever) and it was a pretty smooth assembly, but my sprues of the new Guild Box Set and Guild Riflemen made me boggle a bit before putting them away for the next few weeks. Those are gonna have to wait until the move is done.
Edit: 200,700, looks like the 200k stretch goals are pretty solidly earned, and with a decent chunk towards 205k (the pdfs).
If only they would make an Al Leong mini. I would pledge for that!
The ten archers remind me a lot of Zvezda's "Ring of Don't Buy Us" line of impossibly fiddly minis. But they look so good!
Every time someone turns it on, I crash the Mackmobile because I look at it instead of the road. It was making my insurance a nightmare.
You ever get that feeling like you were sure you did something, like lock the door, or turn off the oven. But enough people tell you that you didn't, and the evidence is there... so you start to question yourself? I'm getting that really bad right now! Like I just said the word "octopus" wrong and the three people I'm with are looking at me, and telling me I just said "hippopotamus".
I'm fairly pressed for time online, generally, and tend to be fairly focused on what forums I visit. The only miniature wargaming forum I used to visit was Warseer, until the mod staff hulkraged over Kickstarters and essentially told everyone if they wanted to discuss the most exciting developments in wargaming they should go elsewhere. Now, I'm here mostly.
So we have Warseer to thank for your presence here.
I know, right?
Seriously, we get it, you aren't a fan and even though Wyrd has listened to the feedback given by posters here and elsewhere, it doesn't matter to you because they often release limited edition figures (which is about on par with the reincarnation of Mechahitler in your eyes),
You laugh now, but if you had seen the gaunt faces of all those poor souls, worked to the bones as henchmen to receive their limited edition models, trapped behind those convention center gates with the words Arbeit Macht Lord Chompy Bits... you would understand, too. Mechahitler was no joke. Is it any wonder, then, that ElectroHerzl spent his whole life founding the Zionist movement so that one day some young hacker could destroy the mechanazis and make out with leather-clad sunglass babes? Can you not understand the rage of Cyber Wiesenthal, who spent his whole life hunting down limited editions and collecting them?
For my grandparents, the day Mechahitler visited their shtetl was the most important day of their lives. For you, it was Tuesday.
so therefore you aren't backing this kickstarter that you probably weren't even interested in to begin with.
You've made it abundantly clear. Please stop posting so the rest of us can discuss what we are going to do with our little plastic toys and rpg books (which, at least for me, will include making at least some machine gun noises).
Careful, Ozymandias. I might behold your words and despair.
Every time someone turns it on, I crash the Mackmobile because I look at it instead of the road. It was making my insurance a nightmare.
You ever get that feeling like you were sure you did something, like lock the door, or turn off the oven. But enough people tell you that you didn't, and the evidence is there... so you start to question yourself? I'm getting that really bad right now! Like I just said the word "octopus" wrong and the three people I'm with are looking at me, and telling me I just said "hippopotamus".
Got any info on whether or not the pad of character sheets will be available at a later date for sale?
Every time someone turns it on, I crash the Mackmobile because I look at it instead of the road. It was making my insurance a nightmare.
You ever get that feeling like you were sure you did something, like lock the door, or turn off the oven. But enough people tell you that you didn't, and the evidence is there... so you start to question yourself? I'm getting that really bad right now! Like I just said the word "octopus" wrong and the three people I'm with are looking at me, and telling me I just said "hippopotamus".
Got any info on whether or not the pad of character sheets will be available at a later date for sale?
Alas no, I don't have solid information on that. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm not that decision maker there. I'll make sure to mention it to the right people, and we'll see what we can do.
Every time someone turns it on, I crash the Mackmobile because I look at it instead of the road. It was making my insurance a nightmare.
You ever get that feeling like you were sure you did something, like lock the door, or turn off the oven. But enough people tell you that you didn't, and the evidence is there... so you start to question yourself? I'm getting that really bad right now! Like I just said the word "octopus" wrong and the three people I'm with are looking at me, and telling me I just said "hippopotamus".
Got any info on whether or not the pad of character sheets will be available at a later date for sale?
Alas no, I don't have solid information on that. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I'm not that decision maker there. I'll make sure to mention it to the right people, and we'll see what we can do.
Be sure to get Zoraida on the job then. I hear she's pretty good at planting ideas into people's heads. Just make sure that whoever owns the head you're gonna mention it to doesn't have Immune to Influence
Forar wrote: No argument here. Should Wyrd run another KS at some point, I hope they take lessons learned from this one and EBO (and others that have succeeded) to improve it. That doesn't mean "I hope they run it like KD:M" or whatever the latest gaming KS hotness might be. Just... in a fashion that draws the community in more easily. More info available at the start, perhaps not as long a drive (we knew momentum wouldn't keep up forever, but a month and a half was a long haul), whatever.
KDM got very lucky with their timing--opposite TtB, they look like The Shart. Opposite Dreadball or Reaper Bones or Dreamforge or Trollforge, they would have really struggled to compete for the average wargamer's dollar.
And yes, I hope Wyrd performs much better and learns from their (sort of) failure and others' successes.
Without going too much into the weeds, that seems a bit revisionist: collectively, Trollforged, Dreamforge, and Dreadball made ($54,090+$205,971+$728,985) $989,046. We need not diminish what either Adam or Mark or Ed or Mantic have done, each seems to have run the best campaign for their product.
It seems a far fairer point that, rather then KD:M being lucky, TtB was exceptionally unlucky. Moreover, it's clear that while Adam has run an exceptionally well done campaign (he made about $19k on Christmas!), Wyrd has struggled, fundamentally, in understanding what the prospective backer of this campaign truly wants.
That goes back to something Bob said, which (while somewhat hyperbolic) rings very true: why has this RPG campaign spent the better part of the last nearly 2 weeks focused on adding a single promo miniature to the campaign? The addition of the Sanatana SE was teased back on December 19th (Breachside Holiday), the (now abandoned) 500 @$225 campaign was revealed December 21 (Run and Hide! Sanatana clause is here!) and finally the new promotion on January 2 (I want to play a game...; which begins "I want Santanas in your hands.").
It's no slight towards Mack, but that's a lot of time.
In the interest of being helpful, some simple things that I see that can be changed in future updates;
-Graphics. I've said it before and I'll say it again: people are visual, and having things laid out for them in a streamlined bit of design is much preferable to large blocks of text.
-The current stretch goals need to be clearly laid out. What exactly are people working on now? How close are the various levels to having the SE figure added? The 4rth MPM sprue? This is especially important since the graphic for the Santana contest hasn't been updated in days, and cannot be independently verified.
-The Santana contest is supposed to get social media buzzing by having people share and tweet things. But except for the first update, the things people are supposed to re-tweet and share... haven't been in the updates! This forces people that want to play the game to search for the update that has has them (only Update #25, FYI).
Anyway, good to see this gaining some ground, here's hoping for the best!
Alfndrate wrote: Huh, 37 pages before a mod comes in. I'm curious if there were any posts I missed.
So Mack has been talking about Item Creation over on Wyrd's forums, what do you guys think the crafting system should be like?
Unfortunatly I can't get on the Wyrd forums right now but I hope they make crafting that isn't just a purchase x componenants from guy y... Something tied to either RP or combat would be nice.
Also, if anyone hasn't seen the character creation video, I suggest you check it out. It's interesting to say the least. A few things to note:
There is a very ceremonial feeling to it, like a tarot reading.
Character creation process:
1) Decide, do you want to go through with a concept or completely random (Justin went with a mercenary type character)
2) Have the Player shuffle the deck 5 times, then the Fate Master cuts the deck, and then the player shuffles 1 more time. After that point, the player doesn't touch the deck. (If anyone has done tarot, or received a tarot reading, this is very similar to that concept).
3) Next up is the Crossroads Tarot (five cards making a cross). Starting with the center card, this is the player's station in life, where you were born, what your family does. (Justin's character was born to a merc family and he will gain the intimidate ability). Note: The cards flipped all give the player a chance to develop the backstory of their character, and tell it to the fate master.
4) Second step is the body of your character, which decides the physical aspects of your character. Mack flips a 10 of Tomes. The higher the number, the less focused you are in your stats (So getting the Red Joker might just be even across the board). The 10 of Tomes grants a -2, 0, +1, and +1. The physical aspects are Might, Grace, Speed, And Resilience. 0 is human average. So after Justin puts in his stats he has a +1 in Grace and Might, average speed, and kind of a sickly resilience.
5) The third step is your upbringing. The 5 of Crows is flipped. So Justin gets 2, 2, and 1. So he's chooses Longarms (which is rifle skills), Toughness (which gives him the ability to get more wounds, and shrug off pain. So even though he was a sickly child, he probably has learned to take a hit). And he puts the 1 into tracking. The highest rating you can get into a skill is 5. The higher the card flipped for skills, the more focused you are. Whenever you gain skills you'll gain 5 points.
6) The fourth step is the mind. These are social skills, etc.. These are your mental skills, intellect, cunning charm and tenacity. Mack flips the 6 of tomes (lower card, more focused). He gets a -3, and three +1s. Tenacity is your mental willpower stat.
7) This is your education. These are the things that you taught yourself, or that you pursued during your young adult life. The Jack of Crows is flipped which gives a 3 and a 2. It is mentioned earlier of jokingly making a merc veterinarian. So Justin goes with Husbandry and Blacksmithing, so he can care for horses, shoe them, etc...
8) This step is modify. You take your station skill from the first card flip). So Justin adds a 1 to his intimidate skill. You also have 2 points to increase your stats in anyway you want. Justin keeps the mental and physical weaknesses, but bumps Grace to a +3.
9) Divining Fate - So start with the Southern Card, this is your Education card, then you drop to the Eastern card (Mind), Northern Card (Upbringing), Western Card (Body), and Center (Station). So reverse order in which they were deal. All of these correlate to a chart that slowly reveals your destiny and fate. So it's the Fate Master's job to reveal these in the game and try to work them in. It's the player's job to either follow fate or deny it. Everytime you complete a piece of your destiny you add 1 point to your aspects. So the Fate Master, since it's his job to put it into the story, might say. "Okay, we're going to be dealing with Justin's fate today, he'll get to choose his pursuit first. Justin, you wake up feeling like things might go wrong and you might just have to kill a man." As fated your players kind of know when their time is up.
They realize half way through that they messed up the order, so below I have it written as the cards that were flipped, rather than their specific position. This shouldn't really change the destiny of the character unless there is a different chart depending on which section of the tarot it's on. So, like the 10 of Tomes won't be the same destiny in the Mind as it might be in the body.
Justin's fate is as follows:
Body: Your eyes will be opened unto to the Abyss.
Education: You will let your blood run cold.
Mind: With a whisper you will bring down the walls.
Upbringing: You will break the noose.
Station: And you will be transformed.
10) Pursuits: So you get to pick a talent based on the pursuit.
11) Wounds: Wounds are determined by 4 + Resilience + Toughness
12) Equipment: Justin is starting off with a gun as a merc, and 100 guild credit or scrips
13) Twist Deck: You write Ace through 13. First the player chooses a defining suit. Even though he's a rough and tumble character, he's kind of weak. So instead of going for the resilient rams, he's picked the crows. So Ace, 5, 9, and King (13) all get that suit. Second suit (Ascendant Suit). So it's 12, 8, and 4. Justin chooses Rams for that one. The third suit is the Center Suit, Justin chooses masks so his 11, 7, and 3 would be that. The final suit is going to be Tomes. So 10, 6, and 2 become Tomes. What this means is that you take the the cards of those suits and put them in your personal twist deck.
Sounds interesting and fun It is very ceremonial, but I could see it being something that a player could do at home and bring their character to the game.
Alfndrate wrote: Huh, 37 pages before a mod comes in. I'm curious if there were any posts I missed.
So Mack has been talking about Item Creation over on Wyrd's forums, what do you guys think the crafting system should be like?
Unfortunatly I can't get on the Wyrd forums right now but I hope they make crafting that isn't just a purchase x componenants from guy y... Something tied to either RP or combat would be nice.
Atm, since he's not done with other things, crafting might be GM's call on this. It'll be like, if you have blacksmithing skill of x you generally can find the time to make the item if it's mundane. You would only have to take a test if you are pressed for time, or if you are trying something high quality with improvised materials or something beyond your skill level.
Not sure, would have to see where Mack takes this.
Yup, been watching it occasionally though there is obviously more news with KD:M I was really close to pledging, but I realized I have SDE and it's not painted and it's only been played once... Not much point in buying another board game I'll have to paint and probably barely able to play.
I made today's pretty tough. I say that, but you now that I've said that some big code breaking fan out there is going to look at it and go "oh yeah, here ya go. 20 minutes. DONE."
For those of you who are curious, the title of this update is a take on my favorite Shel Silverstein. On today's update we have some more fun stuff!
I've updated the front page with a new graphic for our stretch goals. You might also notice that at the Game Room ($225) pledge level I've added the Hanging Tree. That's right, if you're pledging at that level or above, you're going to get the Hanging Tree model!
We also hit the Fatemaster Screen and pad of character sheets over the weekend. We're also closing in on the PDFs! With just a few days to go, tell your friends, tell your enemies! Share the Kickstarter image! Don't forget that it's worth a point for every 5 shares!
Congratulations once again on solving the puzzle so quickly! Despite the arguably useful nature of my clue (I forgot that some people adjust the number of posts per page), you guys managed to decipher it and find every bit rather quickly. We've updated the thermometer appropriately. We are currently at 640 points!
Today, however, I wanted to include a much harder puzzle. Hopefully you guys won't burn through this one in under three hours. But who am I kidding, right? I've made it as hard as I can though, so I hope it lasts longer than our previous puzzle!
You'll notice a coded image down below. If someone out there can decipher the title (no need to do the whole thing) I'll give you another 100 points! As a hint, it's the beginning of a series by Andy Hoare, that will be used throughout the core RPG books. Good luck... You'll need it!
So, the creature catalogue is in the GM book now, right? Or are they releasing it separately? If it's separate, then I'd be willing to buy it at full Amazon pricing when it hits. Ah loves muh sum critter catalogs.
Hope they throw in some history, secret or otherwise.
Nice to see they're trying to make the higher pledge level actually worth considering. Assuming this hits the 250,000 mark, it may actually be worth doing.
Wow. Starting to come down from the sugar high of the KD kickstarter finish. It's like I ate too much candy Halloween night. :/
Glad to see that it hit 205, I've been considering upping my pledge to 225. I know that I got some flack at GenCon because the nightmare tree was even for sale (thanks Cy ), but if I bump up now, I'll get about 60 dollars in bonus value (60 for the hard cover book, 11.50 for the extra fate deck, 20 for Santana (as if she were available for puchase), which means that I'm sitting at 91.50 before adding in the trees. It's tempting to say the least
I do get paid tonight, and would be able to cover it.
Alfndrate wrote: Glad to see that it hit 205, I've been considering upping my pledge to 225. I know that I got some flack at GenCon because the nightmare tree was even for sale (thanks Cy ), but if I bump up now, I'll get about 60 dollars in bonus value (60 for the hard cover book, 11.50 for the extra fate deck, 20 for Santana (as if she were available for puchase), which means that I'm sitting at 91.50 before adding in the trees. It's tempting to say the least
I do get paid tonight, and would be able to cover it.
I've been sitting at $225 since the thing launched. For me the value is there but then again I'm a sucker for LE and hard to get mini's that tickle my fancy.
Looking back over the stretch rewards it now looks like at the $250,000 level more people then just the $225 backers get the trees.
Alfndrate wrote: Glad to see that it hit 205, I've been considering upping my pledge to 225. I know that I got some flack at GenCon because the nightmare tree was even for sale (thanks Cy ), but if I bump up now, I'll get about 60 dollars in bonus value (60 for the hard cover book, 11.50 for the extra fate deck, 20 for Santana (as if she were available for puchase), which means that I'm sitting at 91.50 before adding in the trees. It's tempting to say the least
I do get paid tonight, and would be able to cover it.
I've been sitting at $225 since the thing launched. For me the value is there but then again I'm a sucker for LE and hard to get mini's that tickle my fancy.
Looking back over the stretch rewards it now looks like at the $250,000 level more people then just the $225 backers get the trees.
I was at 225 until the fate deck was unlocked for the dining room gamer, as I wanted the deck of cards and the minis.
Edit: Though I keep forgetting to add in some of the other stretch goals like the random multipose mini, the fatemaster screen, and the character sheets. I'm not even going to include the early backer rewards. It's getting some good value to it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also editing the OP
Catyrpelius wrote: Looking back over the stretch rewards it now looks like at the $250,000 level more people then just the $225 backers get the trees.
Correct. At 250k everyone who pledged 125+ gets the tree.
Since the 500+'s will be getting 2 Santanas (1 was added to the "tier" outright and another for the Gaming Room getting them), I'm assuming (but haven't had confirmation yet) that if we manage to pull in another 41k the Gaming Room tier will get 2 trees. That's a big IF of course, but there's been better movement over the last few days, so who knows what the last 55 hours will bring.
Santana getting into the 125's should be interesting, and assuming even a token number of people continued to Like, Share and Retweet those images, I'd be shocked if that wasn't included in todays update.
Alfndrate wrote: Wait, the 500s get 2 Santanas? I won't bump it to that level, but I didn't know that lol
Update #25:
I want Santanas in your hands. The guys here in the office are asking, "Mack, why are you twitching?" They blame the case of energy drinks I down on a daily basis, but I blame my need to get Santanas out there.
So, what can we do? Well, I'm going to start off by thanking our Secret Reward level backers again. They really put a shoulder behind this project and for that, we're going to add a Santana for every Secret Level backer. This is in addition to the one they could earn if we all hit the Santana Claus Stretch Goal.
Yup. At $500 you get 2 Santanas, and along with the Gaming Room folks, 2 trees if we manage to swing that full 250k+.
Not enough to get me up there (I'm questioning that $270, let alone another 230 on top of it), but yeah, along with the bonus option that's not bad. Hoping to make Gencon but not sure yet, so it's either be a character in the book or a painted Hannah and signed hardcover, unfortunately neither of which I can justify almost doubling my pledge for.
Alfndrate wrote: Wait, the 500s get 2 Santanas? I won't bump it to that level, but I didn't know that lol
Update #25:
I want Santanas in your hands. The guys here in the office are asking, "Mack, why are you twitching?" They blame the case of energy drinks I down on a daily basis, but I blame my need to get Santanas out there.
So, what can we do? Well, I'm going to start off by thanking our Secret Reward level backers again. They really put a shoulder behind this project and for that, we're going to add a Santana for every Secret Level backer. This is in addition to the one they could earn if we all hit the Santana Claus Stretch Goal.
Yup. At $500 you get 2 Santanas, and along with the Gaming Room folks, 2 trees if we manage to swing that full 250k+.
Not enough to get me up there (I'm questioning that $270, let alone another 230 on top of it), but yeah, along with the bonus option that's not bad. Hoping to make Gencon but not sure yet, so it's either be a character in the book or a painted Hannah and signed hardcover, unfortunately neither of which I can justify almost doubling my pledge for.
I agree, if they could promise drinks with the Wyrd crew at GenCon, I might be more easily swayed lol. That 500 level is a tough nut to swallow.
One tiny advantage is that it apparently lacks a S&H fee, so it's the one level that you pay the same amount for the same stuff regardless of whether you live in the US or Australia.
Alfndrate wrote: Wait, the 500s get 2 Santanas? I won't bump it to that level, but I didn't know that lol
Update #25:
I want Santanas in your hands. The guys here in the office are asking, "Mack, why are you twitching?" They blame the case of energy drinks I down on a daily basis, but I blame my need to get Santanas out there.
So, what can we do? Well, I'm going to start off by thanking our Secret Reward level backers again. They really put a shoulder behind this project and for that, we're going to add a Santana for every Secret Level backer. This is in addition to the one they could earn if we all hit the Santana Claus Stretch Goal.
Yup. At $500 you get 2 Santanas, and along with the Gaming Room folks, 2 trees if we manage to swing that full 250k+.
Not enough to get me up there (I'm questioning that $270, let alone another 230 on top of it), but yeah, along with the bonus option that's not bad. Hoping to make Gencon but not sure yet, so it's either be a character in the book or a painted Hannah and signed hardcover, unfortunately neither of which I can justify almost doubling my pledge for.
I agree, if they could promise drinks with the Wyrd crew at GenCon, I might be more easily swayed lol. That 500 level is a tough nut to swallow.
Drinks with the Wyrd crew doesn't really cost $250 bucks... it costs the cost of a drink! When I'm at GenCon (or any convention really), that's just 4 days when all I do is hang out with fans and talk. It's exhausting but a lot of fun. It's a great way to get some face time with people passionate about gaming. If you see me at GenCon, all you gotta do is say "Mack, we're going to TGIFridays, you wanna join us?" I'm a sucker for a Mojito and their Dragonfire Salmon.
Huh, I just realized I'm more familiar with the TGIF menu than I would like to be.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run some kick ass games for them.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run one kick ass game for them.
Is there something about your character being added to the game as well?
Any chance Gremlins will be playable by then? Gremlins are what I'm looking forward to the most by the way.
Drinks with the Wyrd crew doesn't really cost $250 bucks... it costs the cost of a drink! When I'm at GenCon (or any convention really), that's just 4 days when all I do is hang out with fans and talk. It's exhausting but a lot of fun. It's a great way to get some face time with people passionate about gaming. If you see me at GenCon, all you gotta do is say "Mack, we're going to TGIFridays, you wanna join us?" I'm a sucker for a Mojito and their Dragonfire Salmon.
Huh, I just realized I'm more familiar with the TGIF menu than I would like to be.
Shoot Mack. Had I known this we would have invited you to Harry Carey's with us at Adepticon.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run one kick ass game for them.
Is there something about your character being added to the game as well?
Any chance Gremlins will be playable by then? Gremlins are what I'm looking forward to the most by the way.
Well the Canon campaign will affect the story a bit I believe, and there is an option of getting your character's art added to the book, but to get both it would cost 750 dollars...
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run one kick ass game for them.
Is there something about your character being added to the game as well?
Any chance Gremlins will be playable by then? Gremlins are what I'm looking forward to the most by the way.
I don't think that Gremlins will be far enough along by then to be really viable. If you're coming, I can likely figure something out for you though. I'm flexible.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run one kick ass game for them.
Is there something about your character being added to the game as well?
Any chance Gremlins will be playable by then? Gremlins are what I'm looking forward to the most by the way.
I don't think that Gremlins will be far enough along by then to be really viable. If you're coming, I can likely figure something out for you though. I'm flexible.
Also its actually $275 more but close enough I guess... Either way the deed is done
Wow, now that KD:M is done, I think this thing is starting to get some legs as those backers are exploring the projects a bit more. 5k away from another MPM.
Too bad we don't have anything at the 210k level, I think this is definitely one of those projects that would benefit more from the smaller increments on stretch goals rather than big ones.
Catyrpelius wrote: I'm going back and forth with uping to the Secret Level... If I could commit to Gencon 100% then I'd definatly be there.
Mack do you know who is running the Cannon campaign? Are there still seats open?
There are seats open. And I'm running it. I mean, come on, $250 bucks, you get a game run by the designer... and I'm gonna make it as fantastic as I can. I've got some really cool ideas. If I do say so myself.
EDIT: That was a bit ambiguous. My point, is that in my mind, $250 is a good chunk of someones hobby money budget. I'm honored that they would want to devote that much of it to Through The Breach, and the least I can do is run one kick ass game for them.
Is there something about your character being added to the game as well?
Any chance Gremlins will be playable by then? Gremlins are what I'm looking forward to the most by the way.
I don't think that Gremlins will be far enough along by then to be really viable. If you're coming, I can likely figure something out for you though. I'm flexible.
Also its actually $275 more but close enough I guess... Either way the deed is done
Anychance you'll be dressing up as Som'er Teeth?
It's more likely I'll be in a Wyrd Employee T-shirt. I'll see if I can convince the bosses to let me drink heavily the entire time though!
Hey Mack, is there going to be a cap on the number of people at the table for the Gencon canon campaign? I've run games with nearly a dozen players at once, but its generally a cluster...shenanigans. Or will there be multiple canon events to make up for the number who may show up between the Secret Tier (well, those who choose this option, obviously not everyone will) and the spots that are apparently being raffled for amongst the backers, as I recall?
Related, any chance we might get at least the tentative numbers on how many of each option were chosen by said ST backers? Curious to see what holds the highest draw amongst those with the funding to spare.
Also, any chance we can get confirmation on whether or not the Gaming Room/Secret Tiers are up for double Hanging Trees if this manages to go the 40k needed to hit 250?
Here is part of the email I got from Eric J on the Canon sessions:
Mack recently released a few more details about the campaign.. Participants in the campaign will roleplay in groups of 4-6 over three 4-hour long sessions spread out over the Gen Con weekend with Mack Martin as your Fate Master.
Now, I do have a multipart question about this I think Mack could be able to shed some light on.
Does this mean we will each play in 3 sessions over the course of Gencon, or is it only 1 session each and 3 groups of 4-6?
Each group of 4-6 will get 3 sessions each. I'll likely cap it at 3 groups total. Otherwise I'll start to burn out and not be giving each groups it's full value.
Then again, I plan for them to all be in different places, doing different thing... but working towards a common goal. It's a pretty massive undertaking I have in mind.
Forar, I don't have numbers exactly. Although from talking to Jaq, it looks like the canon campaign is the most popular. Which I find very flattering.
I'm not sure what the plan is if we hit 250 yet. We are still figuring out several options. Just trying to figure out which is best/possible. We can't over commit the Hanging Tree, as it's limited and we only have so many.
Miggidy_Mack wrote: Each group of 4-6 will get 3 sessions each. I'll likely cap it at 3 groups total. Otherwise I'll start to burn out and not be giving each groups it's full value.
Then again, I plan for them to all be in different places, doing different thing... but working towards a common goal. It's a pretty massive undertaking I have in mind.
So much for hanging around the Wyrd booth huh? Thursday, Friday, Saturday you're going to be living in the RPG rooms aren't you?
Miggidy_Mack wrote: Each group of 4-6 will get 3 sessions each. I'll likely cap it at 3 groups total. Otherwise I'll start to burn out and not be giving each groups it's full value.
Then again, I plan for them to all be in different places, doing different thing... but working towards a common goal. It's a pretty massive undertaking I have in mind.
So much for hanging around the Wyrd booth huh? Thursday, Friday, Saturday you're going to be living in the RPG rooms aren't you?
Some of those games will be after booth hours. So I should be available in the booths, and after hours. I'll be busy, but enjoying myself quite a bit!
Spent my entire Saturday demoing Malifaux in the Event Hall, Thursday was shopping, Friday was working for On the Lamb Games, and Sunday was get demos for Alf day lol.
Miggidy_Mack wrote: Each group of 4-6 will get 3 sessions each. I'll likely cap it at 3 groups total. Otherwise I'll start to burn out and not be giving each groups it's full value.
Then again, I plan for them to all be in different places, doing different thing... but working towards a common goal. It's a pretty massive undertaking I have in mind.
Forar, I don't have numbers exactly. Although from talking to Jaq, it looks like the canon campaign is the most popular. Which I find very flattering.
I'm not sure what the plan is if we hit 250 yet. We are still figuring out several options. Just trying to figure out which is best/possible. We can't over commit the Hanging Tree, as it's limited and we only have so many.
Thats alot more time with you then I thought it was going to be!
Miggidy_Mack wrote: Each group of 4-6 will get 3 sessions each. I'll likely cap it at 3 groups total. Otherwise I'll start to burn out and not be giving each groups it's full value.
Then again, I plan for them to all be in different places, doing different thing... but working towards a common goal. It's a pretty massive undertaking I have in mind.
Forar, I don't have numbers exactly. Although from talking to Jaq, it looks like the canon campaign is the most popular. Which I find very flattering.
I'm not sure what the plan is if we hit 250 yet. We are still figuring out several options. Just trying to figure out which is best/possible. We can't over commit the Hanging Tree, as it's limited and we only have so many.
Thats alot more time with you then I thought it was going to be!
It's quite a selling point, I've gotta say. 12 hours of gameplay with the lead developer across 3 days. Makes the "Secret Tier" look like one hell of a bargain.
At 3 groups of 4 to 6, meaning 12 to 18 participants, sounds like after covering the ST backers there really will be only a handful of raffle spots to get in on. Including things like the second Santana (which will presumably retain some average resale value to help offset the increased cost) and ignoring S&H, I daresay it's adding up to a hell of a ... value. (*GASP*)
Catyrpelius wrote: I guess now I'm committed to going to Gencon... Now its time to see which company is going to give me a free exhibitor pass.
I'm sure you could convince Cy to hook you up, you just have to be a booth babe for a few hours (and trust me, the Hamster Beserker costume doesn't fit right... ever...)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forar wrote: It's quite a selling point, I've gotta say. 12 hours of gameplay with the lead developer across 3 days. Makes the "Secret Tier" look like one hell of a bargain.
At 3 groups of 4 to 6, meaning 12 to 18 participants, sounds like after covering the ST backers there really will be only a handful of raffle spots to get in on. Including things like the second Santana (which will presumably retain some average resale value to help offset the increased cost) and ignoring S&H, I daresay it's adding up to a hell of a ... value. (*GASP*)
*slap!* Get a hold of yourself man! This is Dakka we're talking about, don't go talking of value, we've GW threads to moan in!
Catyrpelius wrote: I guess now I'm committed to going to Gencon... Now its time to see which company is going to give me a free exhibitor pass.
I'm sure you could convince Cy to hook you up, you just have to be a booth babe for a few hours (and trust me, the Hamster Beserker costume doesn't fit right... ever...)
I'm sure I'll find something.... Two years ago I ran demos for CMoN, Sedition Wars actually with Mike McVey himself. The whole time I got into the convention with a Warstore Exhibitor pass, that pass got me some nice discounts.
As you may have noticed, the rewards graphic has been updated! First, we hit 205k, and with that unlocked the PDF copies of the books for every level! We're closing in on 215k as well, which adds another multi-pose sprue, meaning that everyone receiving a random sprue gets both.
In addition, we broke 750 points on the "Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand," which unlocks Santana at both the Dining Room and Living Room pledge levels.
You'll notice some shifts on the Back-O-Meter. It turns out there was a layer issue, which had yellow overlapped by blue, where it should have been the other way around. This was causing some confusion as to where the numbers should be! The top was at the right place, but it looked odd.
It's surged up quite a bit, however, with quite a few new Game Room backers, as well as the cool 100 points from yesterday. The new total is 802, by my calculations. That's a big jump!
There isn't a game to play today... because Justin sabotaged me yesterday, so now I have to come up with something really hard. I said Justin sabotaged me, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Forar wrote: I applaud Mack based on the use of one of my all time favourite Simpsons quotes in the update title.
Hah! Few people know where I got it for some reason! It's actually entered into my common vernacular. I wrote it in the title because someone said "no title?" and I just responded with "shoot who in the what now?"
I suppose with the money coming in at the end, the Wyrd fans will take that as a "this is normal for kickstarters to dip in the middle" rather than seeing that there were actually problems and it was only when they were addressed that the money began to flow again?
Alfndrate wrote: IF (and it's a big if) we hit 250k, it unlocks the tree for the 125 backers.
Doubt that will happen. I'm thinking they'll barely pass the $215,000 mark. If this hits the $220,000 mark, I'll be amazed.
I suppose if I were more of an RPG guy, the $225 pledge would be more enticing. Ah, well.
Alfndrate wrote: IF (and it's a big if) we hit 250k, it unlocks the tree for the 125 backers.
Hang on a sec (no pun intended). Does that mean a second tree for the $225 pledge level?
I think Mack addressed it earlier in this thread, or on Wyrd's forums, but no there wouldn't be a second tree added to the 225 if it reaches 250k, this could change. who knows.
I'll be so glad when this one ends, and goes away . For having almost no news (it stalled under 200K for Weeks...) I can't believe this got to 40 pages. Ugh...
I do appreciate Mack signing up for the forums and posting, and that was legitimately news (but it was in the small minority).
RiTides wrote: I'll be so glad when this one ends, and goes away . For having almost no news (it stalled under 200K for Weeks...) I can't believe this got to 40 pages. Ugh...
I do appreciate Mack signing up for the forums and posting, and that was legitimately news (but it was in the small minority).
Shush you non-believer! There is but one kool-aid and its flavor is Wyrd!
I want the KS to end so this thread can go to the Wyrd subforum to die and I no longer have to remember that this thread contributed to at least 245 posts in my post count >_< I have just over 8 pages of posts in this thread.
Forar wrote: And then you'll have 8 pages of posts in this thread in the Wyrd sub-forum, which at a glance should be renamed the Wyrd and Alfndrate subforum.
thanks?
Just trying to help people with questions down there :-\
Yeah, I know I do, back when most of those subforums were 1 big misc. miniatures games subforum, it wouldn't seem so much, but it doesn't get much traffic otherwise.
I continue to waver on the Dining Room/Gaming Room tiers. On one hand, $50 for the tree, second deck and a doll isn't a terrible deal (after selling off the second set of books).
On the other, $111 less hitting my CC helps me justify dropping $70 on that magnetic terrain KS that ends in a week and a half.
I imagine a lot of people are making these choices right now, but hopefully the influx of upgrades and new people will match and exceed any losses. 'Cause seriously, that two week of holding neutral and downward turns was a bit hard to watch.
They have heads for all of the main groups except gremlins (not very likely )
Gear that isn't represented by a human/humanish model:
female:
-throwing knives (I believe)
-shotgun (I don't think any human-sized models have one)
-chain saw (closest is sebastian's buzzsaw... considering I have two kits coming, definitely have considered some sort of female aid to McM. (Sebastian is a very short Ht2)
Male
-that heavy gun (though you could use it to make a smallish Ryle, since that's where it came from)
-shot gun (? again)
...that's it. Everything else could be used to make an alt x,y,z by simply building the kit with the right combination.
Guild--most things other than hoffman's constructs
Arcanists-- union workers would work, maybe showgirls
Neverborn-- maybe woes or a few other things, but not a ton of options outside of a few individual pieces (probably not the basis for a crew)
Ressurectionists-- a bit harder, but definitely options. most things are (or were) human
Outcasts- generic mercs would be the obvious choice
Both are fun choices (having played as outcasts and against guild)
It would be pretty easy to make some guild irregulars/under cover agents/maybe a nice detective sort of theme, or a ragtag merc posse.
Actually, thinking about it, there's probably enough gear overlap that you could probably, with a little careful choosing, run the same minis as both factions.
I've got my first Malifaux mini right now, Nix the bull terrier. I love how detailed the little guy is. Definitely picking up some more Wyrd minis sometime soon.
I got him because he was on sale and looked really cool! If I can't use him, he'll at least get a nice coat of paint on a nice pre-sculpted base I had.
Nix is kind of cool, I just picked up his Master's box tonight, possibly for prize support, he's a fun looking mini.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Salutations!
We're rounding the bend, with less than 24 hours to go! I'm not going to sleep well tonight! We're at 827 points total on the Back-O-Meter.
We also broke into the $215k stretch goal! Now anyone who was getting a random multi-pose miniature is getting both! That means the Dining and Game Room levels each get 4 multi-pose mini sprues, and the Living Room level gets both.
Tomorrow is the big day. I'll be starting the Breach Side chat at 2:30pm PST. This special broadcast will be longer, going until after the Kickstarter ends! I'll be running some real-time games with anyone watching so that you can earn more points on the Back-O-Meter.
All the graphics and the main page have been updated, now all that's left is to see you tomorrow on ustream!
Really? You didn't get on the KD:M bandwagon like the rest of us?
No I didn't, because the game interested me, but I didn't want to get another board game that I probably would never play (yes I'm aware there is solo play), and I said that I probably wouldn't pick up another board game till I painted and played more SDE
Alfndrate wrote: I didn't want to get another board game that I probably would never play (yes I'm aware there is solo play), and I said that I probably wouldn't pick up another board game till I painted and played more SDE
100% with you on that one-- KD is the last big game I'm getting until I have a solid chunk painted. Only about half of my poor space hulk models are painted, and that's been years...
$1,500 from the next book bump, with 19 hours to go we seem to have this part in the bag. Now it's just a question of whether or not there's a final burst in the 27k range over the time remaining.
Yesterday and today have nearly hit 10k apiece, so it's not impossible, but I'm not getting my hopes up either, unless I wake up tomorrow to find us, like, half way there all of a sudden.
Unless there is a last minute contest or an absolute explosion of shares/likes/retweets, doesn't look like the Core tier is getting Santana, but I'd say giving ~80% of 1400+ people the figure is pretty damned good all the same.
Agreed, a 235-240'ish incentive might help roll things over to 250.
That said, we're at 229 now. 21k in just over 9 hours won't be easy, but at least there has been some form of 'last few days bump.'
Depending on how the next few hours go, might even be worth pondering a 275 stretch. Which is less a matter of getting ahead of myself, and more thinking that 300 is probably still well out of reach, but 250 may actually be a possibility, and having something beyond that to throw in for at the last minute might not be a bad idea.
@Forar: I was actually thinking the same thing. 250k is not unlikely, especially since the last 2 hours can be the most lucrative period for a campaign. I think 250k is possible, so planning for a 255-260-265k goal would be reall nice!
recruittons wrote: @Forar: I was actually thinking the same thing. 250k is not unlikely, especially since the last 2 hours can be the most lucrative period for a campaign. I think 250k is possible, so planning for a 255-260-265k goal would be reall nice!
Unless the next 7 hours double what all of yesterday brought in, $250k isn't happening. The early backer incentives killed a lot of the traditional end of campaign bump. I imagine breaking $240k has a decent probability, but $250k is pretty much out of the question unless there's a brilliant incentive added in.
The more I watch these projects, the more interesting I become in the "carrot vs stick" dichotomy that can exist.
Something like Santana was an obvious one; they wanted 500 people at 225 to give out Santana, then they dropped that requirement for one people could work on outside of pledges to spread the word, and now we're at 435, and will hopefully be higher. Instead of asking people to do X and get Y, they gave Y and now people have almost completed X.
Though as they're currently set up, there is a non-negligable issue where doing so with the 250 goals might be somewhat counter productive, in that the tree is likely at least some measure of a draw for people, so if it becomes available for the 125 tiers, some folks might drop from the 225 tier to get it along with the other stuff, however as we saw with Santana, presumably a notable number of people will also increase from the 0-60 range to offset that, and even progress, but with an also noteworthy risk of whether or not that also cover the expanded costs.
But agreed, 19k in 6 hours is starting to look pretty Herculean. Not impossible, not a given, gonna have to keep fingers crossed and see what happens.
)
I'd like to get my hands on the two misses I'm missing since I know I'll never easily get my hands on NE LCB or dead justice.
