tommse wrote: I don't want it to be for pZerkova. How bad do you really wanna arc Razor wind?
I like Adurot's idea. He wants Deathjack for Zerkova with the option of using the orgoth artifacts.
To make this work, however, he'd need some special rules to make her spells stick and to give her some focus efficiency.
He'd need to use her stat and generate focus on his own somehow. Otherwise he'd be expensive to use. Icy Grip is totally worth getting a free casting though.
Nah, no free Focus or none of that. It's more a way to get an Arc Node like model into Khador without having Sorcha "break" it with her Freezing Grip due to it being limited to the 3 Focus that you're able to Allocate to it, and then has the bonus of casting a spell outside of your Warcaster's turn. Zerkova has three attack spells she could use with it, or could use it to cycle Icy Grip to two/three different units during your turn.
I absolutely love it. If the model ends up as good as the art, I think I'll make one with the hatch closed and painted up with some union jack colour scheme and have it do double duty as a steampunk walker with 28mm historicals.
I have to say, PP seems to have the pedal down lately. Between fantastic resculpts, amazing new models, and HARD PLASTIC?!?!, they've got no where to go but up.
frozenwastes wrote: I absolutely love it. If the model ends up as good as the art, I think I'll make one with the hatch closed and painted up with some union jack colour scheme and have it do double duty as a steampunk walker with 28mm historicals.
I had something similar in mind. I imagine some Anglo-Zulu Brits or Ashigaru marching next to it.
frozenwastes wrote: I absolutely love it. If the model ends up as good as the art, I think I'll make one with the hatch closed and painted up with some union jack colour scheme and have it do double duty as a steampunk walker with 28mm historicals.
I had something similar in mind. I imagine some Anglo-Zulu Brits or Ashigaru marching next to it.
I don't play Rhulic in WM/H, so this purchase is going to depend on it being well priced like the hard plastic cyriss battle engine and how well it works with Khador, Cygnar or Menoth.
Do you mean askari rather than ashigaru, or do you intend to go with a Japanese themed 1890s sort of army?
I did indeed mean Japanese Ashigaru. May have been poor sentence layout on my behalf. And I don't inted to go with anything at the moment, but I am getting a sort of alternative history/weird war vibe from that Battle Engine.
I did indeed mean Japanese Ashigaru. May have been poor sentence layout on my behalf. And I don't inted to go with anything at the moment, but I am getting a sort of alternative history/weird war vibe from that Battle Engine.
That sounds like a great idea. I just got confused because colonial british is like 19th century and ashigaru are like 15th century and there's this other similar word askari that also might work there. My bad for making assumptions.
Wargames Factory Ashigaru are an okay option, but some people don't like their faces and find their weapons too thin. I'd likely be tempted by Perry metal ashigaru as they are £1.167 each for metal:
I bet it would also be possible to green stuff some of the armour plate texture onto the battle engine. And japanese style rectangular banners would look great on it.
The battle engine is in the card game already, where it has an interesting rule called Bail Out. When it's destroyed you deploy a Rhulic unit from your hand for free. There's debate on if that could mean anything for what rules it might get in Warmachine.
AduroT wrote: The battle engine is in the card game already, where it has an interesting rule called Bail Out. When it's destroyed you deploy a Rhulic unit from your hand for free. There's debate on if that could mean anything for what rules it might get in Warmachine.
Well, some rumours are circulating about this new book bringing something completely new to Warmachine, so... transports?
Rask Model with extras/conversions Gatorman Posse Model with extras/conversions Crump from the Hunters Grim with extras/conversions Tharn Bloodtracker with conversion Rorsch from Rorsch and Brine with conversions Slaughterhouser Brigand Slaughterhouser Brigand Targ with conversion Razor boar
Schmapdi wrote: $45 for 14 minis, plus books, tiles, dice etc. It's not surprising.
Oh yeah, I think it's a great deal--just noticed they are starting to reuse molds with extras now. I think this is a good sign (coupled with the COC engine).
That's actually really awesome, I'd love to have that now for our IKRPG group. Nice price too, considering. <$45 for tiles, 14 minis and an adventure path is pretty awesome.
That's actually really awesome, I'd love to have that now for our IKRPG group. Nice price too, considering. <$45 for tiles, 14 minis and an adventure path is pretty awesome.
You know, I might be really tempted to get this. Only because I do want to paint the models and use some of them in Warmahordes itself.
I find it amazing how unpleasant the first-gen Myrmidons were, and yet how utterly gorgeous Imperatus and Moros have come out.
Is it feasible just to convert all my lights from Moros, and all my heavies from Impy? Because I would join the Retribution if I can field an army that looks that good.
That's some nice rules for a light myrmidon. Gotta love a light with 14 defense in melee. Paralysis and Grevious wounds is also no joke, with a basic 6 + 2 +8" threat on the paralysis gun.
That's a nice little assassination assistant right there.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I want ruin so badly.............. man, I need to run butcher, but which one, I don't like 2, but 3 is so expensiveasy money wise
Butcher1 is still one of my favorite Warcasters. I love Butcher3 too, but his initial incarnation just beats face sooooooo well, and the newer model is amazing.
AduroT wrote: Keep in mind that Ruin won't be Quite that large when he's released. That's the rapid prototype which comes out a bit bigger than the final form.
Nope. They've said this round of characters are independent kits. See Moros and Dynamo. People were generally poo poo about the add on kit characters as not being really characterful so I could see them move away from doing that in the future.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Schmapdi wrote: No - the latest Character jacks have moved away from that and are just resin sculpts.
Nope. They've said this round of characters are independent kits. See Moros and Dynamo. People were generally poo poo about the add on kit characters as not being really characterful so I could see them move away from doing that in the future.
Yeah - it makes me kinda sad though - I liked the add-on kits too, from a fluff perspective - most character jacks are just normal warjacks that have been souped up a little/picked up some personality traits. So in a way it was very fitting. Plus if they ditch add-on kits, you'll never get a character jack for *insert obscure/unpopular warcaster here.*
Nope. They've said this round of characters are independent kits. See Moros and Dynamo. People were generally poo poo about the add on kit characters as not being really characterful so I could see them move away from doing that in the future.
Yeah - it makes me kinda sad though - I liked the add-on kits too, from a fluff perspective - most character jacks are just normal warjacks that have been souped up a little/picked up some personality traits. So in a way it was very fitting. Plus if they ditch add-on kits, you'll never get a character jack for *insert obscure/unpopular warcaster here.*
Are you implying Garyth Isnt an obscure/unpopular Warcaster?
Nope. They've said this round of characters are independent kits. See Moros and Dynamo. People were generally poo poo about the add on kit characters as not being really characterful so I could see them move away from doing that in the future.
Yeah - it makes me kinda sad though - I liked the add-on kits too, from a fluff perspective - most character jacks are just normal warjacks that have been souped up a little/picked up some personality traits. So in a way it was very fitting. Plus if they ditch add-on kits, you'll never get a character jack for *insert obscure/unpopular warcaster here.*
Are you implying Garyth Isnt an obscure/unpopular Warcaster?
No - I'm saying caster who aren't popular aren't likely to get the investment of a full resin character jack sculpt. But they might get a fairly cheap metal head/weapon/bits of an upgrade kit.
Nope. They've said this round of characters are independent kits. See Moros and Dynamo. People were generally poo poo about the add on kit characters as not being really characterful so I could see them move away from doing that in the future.
Yeah - it makes me kinda sad though - I liked the add-on kits too, from a fluff perspective - most character jacks are just normal warjacks that have been souped up a little/picked up some personality traits. So in a way it was very fitting. Plus if they ditch add-on kits, you'll never get a character jack for *insert obscure/unpopular warcaster here.*
Are you implying Garyth Isnt an obscure/unpopular Warcaster?
No - I'm saying caster who aren't popular aren't likely to get the investment of a full resin character jack sculpt. But they might get a fairly cheap metal head/weapon/bits of an upgrade kit.
Except Garyth is quite easily the least popular Warcaster in Retribution and he's getting a full resin character jack sculpt.
Wild-eyed sailors tell a tale of the nefarious pirate ship Devil’s Shadow and its mysterious disappearance. Of the ship’s crew, only three souls ever returned, now guided by some unseen evil. This trio disperses as quickly as an ill wind, staying only long enough to form contracts with desperate men. Their goals remain a mystery, and the three otherwise go wherever the gales send their cursed ship.
Wow, that's kind of hilariously bland. Too bad, was just starting to get interested in the set. The pistoleer is nice, not very interested in the others now that I've seen the closeups.
Yes, although it was only released 13 days ago. They probably made the box art before it was replaced, and they will still have inventory of the old model.
It's something all my Khthon models can swarm around when the vault isn't in use.
Plastic trolls are what got me back into wargaming and painting, so I've got a soft spot for them.
I'd say those new highwaymen have a bit of character though- they may not be drinking, looting, and snatching pigs like some of the old kits, but they've still got a nice look to them.
AduroT wrote: Are those army boxes giving you those specific jack/beast loadouts, or are they giving you the full kits?
It's confirmed they're full kits, not just the specific models.
So they're pretty awesome deals for starting an army really, and because there's generally very little crossover with the battleboxes, you could conceivably pick this up as an expander if you already bought the starter kit.
I dunno how big they actually are (probably not that big really) but everytime I see a pic of one online those PP army boxes look HUGE, especially considering you can get them for <$100 from Miniature Market.
I'm going to go for the Khador one, the Troll one is pretty tempting too though. Wish it had a different Warlock in it.
Surtur wrote: Those look to be bigger than Colossal boxes.
Actually, on second thought, probably the same size. I got out my Judicator box and compared logo size. About the same proportional to the box
The logo could just be a different size though. Looking at my Woldwrath box, I'm not sure you'd fit all those models in it...but I guess you might. I know you can't really tell from a photo with nothing to show the scale but those boxes do still somehow look bigger haha.
WayneTheGame wrote: It could still have the new model but old pic on the box. I don't think Saeryn has a re sculpt anyways.
I'm probably getting the Menoth one. I've been reading about them lately and I'm digging the crusader feel.
I used to hate Menoth but they're growing on me. I could also see myself buying the Trolls, Cygnar, Khador, Retribution, Cryx and depending on what's in it, Circle ones...
Alpharius wrote: Are all these boxes 'real hard HIPs plastic' or "Privateer Press PVC restic' or "Metal" or some combination of all that or...something else?
They're what ever the models are made of normally. So the box will have a mix of PVC and metals.
That legion box looks like a bit of alright, from a painting perspective at least, though it does look a bit light on bodies at first glance compared to some of the other offerings... I'm not a Warmahordes aficionado by any stretch but this is probably down to the units overal 'power level' I suppose.
I'll keep an eye out for it, if there's a big enough discount available from a distributor then I may find myself starting another wargame! Tempting indeed!
Alpharius wrote: If they do one with the Alligators I'm in big trouble...
That's a tough call on whether it'll happen. On the one hand, Gators have a plastic infantry unit. On the other, they're Minions and Farrow have the plastic Warbeasts.
The Legion box set looks very nice, PP are very clever not including the minis from the starter boxes. It makes so easy to just buy and add to the starters I already have for WM.
Scrub wrote: That legion box looks like a bit of alright, from a painting perspective at least, though it does look a bit light on bodies at first glance compared to some of the other offerings... I'm not a Warmahordes aficionado by any stretch but this is probably down to the units overal 'power level' I suppose.
I'll keep an eye out for it, if there's a big enough discount available from a distributor then I may find myself starting another wargame! Tempting indeed!
It's 'light on bodies' because it has more beasts than the other boxes have beasts/war jacks. I thought that too at first but yeah. They're all 35pt lists so don't worry you aren't being short changed I think the legion one is slightly cheaper too.
Scrub wrote: That legion box looks like a bit of alright, from a painting perspective at least, though it does look a bit light on bodies at first glance compared to some of the other offerings... I'm not a Warmahordes aficionado by any stretch but this is probably down to the units overal 'power level' I suppose.
I'll keep an eye out for it, if there's a big enough discount available from a distributor then I may find myself starting another wargame! Tempting indeed!
Legion plays like that, lots of big beasties and little infantry. Most of their Warlocks do next to nothing for infantry so when they do take an infantry unit or two it's usually either for a tarpit or something that can clear charge lanes through infantry like the Striders in this box. The list isn't perfect, but it's unexpectedly good for this kind of army box.
overtyrant wrote: Quick question, have PP started using HIPS yet or are they still using that awful restic?
The only thing in HIPS so far is the Convergence TEP.
Plus we have seen the Cygnar Warjack of renown (Stormclad) and the Vengence jack in styrene too.
Pretty sure all Vengence and Warjacks of renown hevies will be in new plastic, though the character versions are metal/resin (and not upgrade kits! Hurrah!) Might sneak a third chassis in there from the next book, but not heard any mutterings on that front yet.
Alegedley all sensible non oganic kits will be styrene/hips going forward , and I would hope that some older kits get converted over too where possible.
In all honestly, I hope all heavy jacks go to "real" plastic in the future, including those that already exist in metal and (sadly) PVC.
Oh, and hi, been lurking for a few years, but finally decided to register an account.
Welcome. And thanks for the info about the new kits in styrene.
I too hope for a mass transition over to styrene. I'm not purchasing any more PVC miniatures, so my WM/H spending has dropped dramatically over the last year as starting a new army is hard when all the jacks and beasts I might want are things I won't buy because of the material. Normally I start a new army every January. This year and last, I didn't and instead bought some historicals. I thought that eventually I'd be one of those people who has at least a small army of every faction, but PVC prevented it. If they switch to styrene, it's back on for sure.
I am so sick of cleaning those Trollblood plastics.
I've sworn off Privateer plastics as well for the time being.
I really liked those new outlaws, and upon opening the box, I just went this and the it all where it can .
Which is a shame since they look like they'd be a fun unit to mess with and paint. Still need to get that Solo outlaw girlie troll too. At least she's metal.
I've sworn off Privateer plastics as well for the time being.
I really liked those new outlaws, and upon opening the box, I just went this and the it all where it can .
Which is a shame since they look like they'd be a fun unit to mess with and paint. Still need to get that Solo outlaw girlie troll too. At least she's metal.
I hear this every now and then, that PP has terrible mold lines. But in my experience, GW is just as bad with mold lines. Hell, I just spent most of the afternoon cleaning the lines off of a box of Chaos marines. And that's not even touching the finecast issues.
I've sworn off Privateer plastics as well for the time being.
I really liked those new outlaws, and upon opening the box, I just went this and the it all where it can .
Which is a shame since they look like they'd be a fun unit to mess with and paint. Still need to get that Solo outlaw girlie troll too. At least she's metal.
I hear this every now and then, that PP has terrible mold lines. But in my experience, GW is just as bad with mold lines. Hell, I just spent most of the afternoon cleaning the lines off of a box of Chaos marines. And that's not even touching the finecast issues.
The plastics used for the Legion Warspears(?) was not bad at all. They bend, but mold lines and cleaning were not much of a burden at all, especially when compared to the gaping holes left after assembling some of they metal models.
drazz wrote: The plastics used for the Legion Warspears(?) was not bad at all. They bend, but mold lines and cleaning were not much of a burden at all, especially when compared to the gaping holes left after assembling some of they metal models.
To be honest, I don't get the horror stories at all. I've bought the PP PVC since they started and I've yet to see any issues that I haven't seen from various metal and plastic kits from a variety of manufacturers, including GW and their styrene plastics(yes, they don't have the bend issue, but their mold lines have been terrible at times, especially during 3rd).
drazz wrote: The plastics used for the Legion Warspears(?) was not bad at all. They bend, but mold lines and cleaning were not much of a burden at all, especially when compared to the gaping holes left after assembling some of they metal models.
To be honest, I don't get the horror stories at all. I've bought the PP PVC since they started and I've yet to see any issues that I haven't seen from various metal and plastic kits from a variety of manufacturers, including GW and their styrene plastics(yes, they don't have the bend issue, but their mold lines have been terrible at times, especially during 3rd).
Agreed. I've not had more mould lines than GW kits or anything. You just have to treat them a bit differently, it's more like cutting them off than scraping them off. I've never really understood the massive issue people have either.
That said, I am looking forward to seeing their hard plastic kits too.
I've sworn off Privateer plastics as well for the time being.
I really liked those new outlaws, and upon opening the box, I just went this and the it all where it can .
Which is a shame since they look like they'd be a fun unit to mess with and paint. Still need to get that Solo outlaw girlie troll too. At least she's metal.
Pvc killed my interest in relic Knights, and all my cryx is metal where possible , so everything except one heavy and one light at present, plus the bane cav.
One thing I learned is that you can still clean up with a file, as long as you then use a brass brush to clean off all the fuzzies.
I despise pvc and all its flaws, but sadly it's the next step on the journey of wargaming figs while everyone figures out how to bridge the gap from metal to styrene. Could be worse, could be finecast
It's a luck of the draw thing. I've had acceptable plastics from privateer but I experienced a rash of bad kits and stopped buying anything in that material as a result.
I'm also more forgiving of the exact same issues but in styrene, resin and metal because I find cleaning up mould lines and imperfections with PVC to be far, far more annoying.
I've brought 2 kits in restic from Privateer Prees and they are/were awful. I won't touch another restic miniature from any company because of this. I don't buy GW stuff but my HIPS from Wyrd, Mantic and Hawk Wargames are good. All the HIPS stuff I have from Warlord and Perry's are good. All my resin from Hawk Wargames are good. My metals from GCT studios, Corvus Belli and Privateer are good. My restic from Privateer Prees, Mantic and Soda Pop Miniatures are awful.
Yeah, I've never had three converging mold lines across the main areas of detail on any minis other than my Cygnar jacks. It's really horrible stuff when it's bad.
An ancient and wizened satyr grown grey and stooped by the weight of almost three centuries, Brennos the Elderhorn commands primordial magic, harnessing the eldritch natural forces of raw elemental power. For decades Brennos has been Morvahna’s most reliable sentinel. Though his youthful vigor is a fading memory, he continues to leave the bodies of those who oppose his mistress twisted and broken on the battlefield.
plastictrees wrote: Yeah, I've never had three converging mold lines across the main areas of detail on any minis other than my Cygnar jacks. It's really horrible stuff when it's bad.
PP also has an extremely annoying habit of putting mold lines through concave detail areas. For metal + HIPS models this is impossible due to the stiffness of the mold - any mold line must be on a raised flat or convex area which can be easily accessed. PP PVC with their soft molds routinely puts mold lines through detail areas (faces, icons, all the fiddly gears on Cyriss models) which are next to impossible to clean out well.
plastictrees wrote: Yeah, I've never had three converging mold lines across the main areas of detail on any minis other than my Cygnar jacks. It's really horrible stuff when it's bad.
PP also has an extremely annoying habit of putting mold lines through concave detail areas. For metal + HIPS models this is impossible due to the stiffness of the mold - any mold line must be on a raised flat or convex area which can be easily accessed. PP PVC with their soft molds routinely puts mold lines through detail areas (faces, icons, all the fiddly gears on Cyriss models) which are next to impossible to clean out well.
There are tons of metal models with mold lines through faces and detailed areas. GW's older stuff had it all the time, as did several Harlequin and Reaper models.
An ancient and wizened satyr grown grey and stooped by the weight of almost three centuries, Brennos the Elderhorn commands primordial magic, harnessing the eldritch natural forces of raw elemental power. For decades Brennos has been Morvahna’s most reliable sentinel. Though his youthful vigor is a fading memory, he continues to leave the bodies of those who oppose his mistress twisted and broken on the battlefield.
It pains me that such a beautiful model has such bad rules.
Deadawake1347 wrote: I hear this every now and then, that PP has terrible mold lines. But in my experience, GW is just as bad with mold lines. Hell, I just spent most of the afternoon cleaning the lines off of a box of Chaos marines. And that's not even touching the finecast issues.
Yeah, unless you get to nice resin or occasional metal (usually luck in the latter case) you're going to need to deal with mold lines. The difference is PVC is hell to clean. I hate the material in 9/10 circumstances, and it takes a very nice model, smart use of the material, and/or a low price point for me to consider it worth dealing with, and PP's got none of those. I still like their original metals better most of the time, and don't understand why people buy many of their plastic kits.
An ancient and wizened satyr grown grey and stooped by the weight of almost three centuries, Brennos the Elderhorn commands primordial magic, harnessing the eldritch natural forces of raw elemental power. For decades Brennos has been Morvahna’s most reliable sentinel. Though his youthful vigor is a fading memory, he continues to leave the bodies of those who oppose his mistress twisted and broken on the battlefield.
That chopped of head, "Adriaaaa..." That satyr guy could be used as a skaven.
An ancient and wizened satyr grown grey and stooped by the weight of almost three centuries, Brennos the Elderhorn commands primordial magic, harnessing the eldritch natural forces of raw elemental power. For decades Brennos has been Morvahna’s most reliable sentinel. Though his youthful vigor is a fading memory, he continues to leave the bodies of those who oppose his mistress twisted and broken on the battlefield.
Feel like I need a roided out Seer to go with my Vermin Lords as it stands....
I definitely think it looks very rat like. It's cool, but I don't think goat when I look at it. Though it might just be the angle, I haven't look at the 3d rotation if there is one.
frozenwastes wrote: Welcome. And thanks for the info about the new kits in styrene.
I too hope for a mass transition over to styrene. I'm not purchasing any more PVC miniatures, so my WM/H spending has dropped dramatically over the last year as starting a new army is hard when all the jacks and beasts I might want are things I won't buy because of the material. Normally I start a new army every January. This year and last, I didn't and instead bought some historicals. I thought that eventually I'd be one of those people who has at least a small army of every faction, but PVC prevented it. If they switch to styrene, it's back on for sure.
Yeah. I would have bought all the Convergence models if it wasn't for the material. Instead I ended up selling what I got. If PP rerelease Convergence in HIPS I'm in. As it is I'm never buying another PVC model again (which sort of hampers my ability to get many new models or start any new factions for Warmahordes).
I was reticent to start Wmh largely due to the complaints liked these. But since taking the plunge anyway, I think the complaints see largely exaggerated.
Mold line placing is unfortunate at times, but that can be said about any manufacturer. The only complaint I have is not being able to use plastic glue.
And 90% off that line is covered by the front 'hull'of that jack.
While the remaining ten percent will ruin your paintjob.
It's not just the moldlines. The detail is soft as PVC seems to shrink back from the molds. The little cogs in relief on all the convergence stuff look like you'd fill them in with just the undercoat.
I like the look of Brennos in general, but man, he is way too big. None of the other satyrs hang off the base that much, and already they are kind of awkwardly large for their presence in game (not super heavies like Mulg etc.) PP scale creep is getting a little out of hand I think.
Also, those horns are a bit much... they would weigh more than the rest of him. I love the runes carved into them, however.
Grey Templar wrote: Ehh, PPs current choice of material is pretty bad. Its surprising its taken them so long to start using regular plastic.
I mean, the material is ok for the sculpts its been used for. Fairly chunky and not too fine of detail. But its just that, ok. Not great.
Why they haven't changed is an easy one. PVC is dirt cheap for them to produce and vast swathes of their customer base either don't care or have enough time to clean endless mold lines that they keep buying. The people like me who stop represent a minority. The loss in income from selling to me is made up for by the huge profit they make from people who "can't see what's so bad about the stuff."
Automatically Appended Next Post: I won't pay premium prices for the gak. But that's just me.
Grey Templar wrote: Ehh, PPs current choice of material is pretty bad. Its surprising its taken them so long to start using regular plastic.
I mean, the material is ok for the sculpts its been used for. Fairly chunky and not too fine of detail. But its just that, ok. Not great.
Why they haven't changed is an easy one. PVC is dirt cheap for them to produce and vast swathes of their customer base either don't care or have enough time to clean endless mold lines that they keep buying. The people like me who stop represent a minority. The loss in income from selling to me is made up for by the huge profit they make from people who "can't see what's so bad about the stuff."
Automatically Appended Next Post: I won't pay premium prices for the gak. But that's just me.
Another issue is that most of the PP players in my area are gamers more than hobbyists. I think this is also indicated by the amount of conversion/innovation we don't see from Warmahordes players in the P&M forums. Maybe the forray into plastics (real plastic, that is. ) will help change that.
Another issue is that most of the PP players in my area are gamers more than hobbyists. I think this is also indicated by the amount of conversion/innovation we don't see from Warmahordes players in the P&M forums. Maybe the forray into plastics (real plastic, that is. ) will help change that.
No, you don't see conversions a lot because you have the vocal minority that will shout at any repose, bit swap, or Menoth forbid you use a GW bit, and declare it "not tournament legal". PP has a conversion policy, and if followed, will enable great things. Almost every time I post a conversion in one of the Facebook groups or see one it's always the same yelling and howling. It stifles a lot of creativity and is one downside. People want to say GW bits are "obviously IP of another company" and will chock up heads, swords, and a bunch of other BS that GW only wishes in their wildest dreams (or court battles) was actually protected.
It's a downside to the games that will hopefully become less of an issue later. If/when GW dies, it will be much less of an issue as other game companies are far less litigious about the asinine thing of bits. I can only imagine that the guys a PP would be full of sniggers and elbows if an iconic bit of theirs made it into a White Dwarf on a mini.
Another issue is that most of the PP players in my area are gamers more than hobbyists. I think this is also indicated by the amount of conversion/innovation we don't see from Warmahordes players in the P&M forums. Maybe the forray into plastics (real plastic, that is. ) will help change that.
I think that is a fair point. On the other hand, less of PPs stuff makes me really excited to paint their models (which is what kept me away from the game so long), so I think the effects are somewhat self reinforcing. Still, PP definitely attracts many more gamers than hobbyists over all.
I think that is a fair point. On the other hand, less of PPs stuff makes me really excited to paint their models (which is what kept me away from the game so long), so I think the effects are somewhat self reinforcing. Still, PP definitely attracts many more gamers than hobbyists over all.
I've seen a fair amount of great hobbyists in the PP realm, too. Metal work just requires a lot more effort that even I don't want to put forward. My creativity comes out in now display miniatures and maybe the casual GW kit bash, but I leave my gaming minis pretty clinical just for transport and gameplay reasons.
Wehrkind wrote: And PPs official stance on modding and scratch building doesn't encourage the hobby side as much either.
As I posted above, it's actually more lenient than the doomhowlers proclaim. You have to ensure the model is 50% PP and still includes the appropriate weapons the model is to represent all while staying on the same base size.
Past that, go bananas. Back when GW held tournaments, they had pretty much the same rules. In the end, your local PG/TO has final say. And if unsure, carry a second model as a stand in chump.
The thing about the conversion stance is in some respects due to the nature of the game though. Wm is such a "tight" rules set where any model can bring about immediate and brutal victory, so if you are spending more time trying to work out what is what, an unexpected model conversion can cost you a game.
Obviously players should take the time before a game to explain everything and so forth, but in the heat of "top end" comp there is almost an ability to model for advantage.
One of the strengths of the pp line is the strong silhouette to each unit/model that keeps identification fairly simple which is key for the nature of the game.
Now, naming all the menoth jacks starting with R on the other hand
I've seen (as to and convention organiser) some extreme cases of armies, which while nicely converted and painted, fail the quick comprehension challenge pretty hard. Armies of mantic/rackham/gw parts with nothing to tie them back to the faction the represent, the goblin army of "khador" was impossible to discern what was what
Btw, someone mentioned the "soft molds" of pvc, it's actually the same mold set up as for styrene, that's the depressing part. Just the material allows for more organic shapes and undercuts as its still warm and pliable when first cast so can be torn from a mold where styrene would be locked in.
That's why you get such miserable warping and tearing, plus bent parts, as the factory guys are not concerned about preserving your toys, they just want to get the job done ASAP.
That's also the depressing thing about styrene. It's more profitable by far for companies to be making plates/pens/whatever than our little dudes, the margins on styrene are far smaller, so it's actually harder to find people to make them. Hence why there is not a proliferation of companies doing it (rendera and wargames factory being the obvious two). It's why it still impresses me that wyrd managed to convert their entire line to hips despite needing much smaller product runs, and why gw's strategy boggles my mind as they do everything in house and control basically the entire process, so should be using the high quantity, low cost model to continue to hold their position on top, rather than squander it to all the young pups that we see these days. Not that I don't enjoy many of their competitors and haven't touched gw for several years now.
Go look up legoburners trip to China on this site, pretty sure he has done pics of pvc molds in there, or else Google relic Knights molds.
And then there was the Adepticon tournament where the PP employee declared all GW parts period banned after the event had started. Ive actually heard of them banning a conversion I did for someone that used only PP parts and sculpting putty which followed all their rules. Pretty much any conversion you do risks a DQ, even if you follow all the rules they lay out. It's gotten to be really restrictive and I pretty much ignore them anymore and will simply not bother attending events run by PP.
Also they're not Switching to styrene plastic, they're just adding it to available materials they'll use. Supposedly the plan is styrene for mechanical stuff like the CoC Battle Engine and the Vengeance Warjacks, but future Warbeasts and troops and organic stuff is still going to use PVC. Their Styrene production currently takes for freaking ever too. I don't really Hate the PVC, but the styrene is definitely prefered.
Also also, have you noticed how no picture, not even the artwork, of the Sacral Vault shows a clear picture of the victim on the top of it?
It doesn't matter though how thick the spear hafts are really. They're made of PVC so they're going to be noodles and you're going to replace them with brass rod. The larger original haft just makes it that much easier to drill out before you replace them with thinner brass.
Wehrkind wrote: And PPs official stance on modding and scratch building doesn't encourage the hobby side as much either.
As I posted above, it's actually more lenient than the doomhowlers proclaim. You have to ensure the model is 50% PP and still includes the appropriate weapons the model is to represent all while staying on the same base size.
Past that, go bananas. Back when GW held tournaments, they had pretty much the same rules. In the end, your local PG/TO has final say. And if unsure, carry a second model as a stand in chump.
I am going off personal experience, not dooomies. Look at the rules for characters; basically you have to use the upgrade kit parts. You can play around with other aspects of the model for basic beasts and jacks, but you are pretty limited on what will fly. As others have pointed out, there are some harsh requirements for PP events that have photography.
Further, having a back up model to use sort of defeats the purpose. If I am going to use my own Ghettorix because I dislike the official model, I am none too pleased to have to own the official model anyway if I ever want to use it outside my home. At that point I won't bother with a conversion and nice paint job, I will just get the requirement and slap on a quick paint job and call it done. Hence, less painting and modeling.
SOOOOO glad about the plastic wolves and Reeves! I have been waiting for those; after putting together Halberdiers in metal, I couldn't imagine doing the wolves.
JonWebb wrote: Btw, someone mentioned the "soft molds" of pvc, it's actually the same mold set up as for styrene, that's the depressing part. Just the material allows for more organic shapes and undercuts as its still warm and pliable when first cast so can be torn from a mold where styrene would be locked in.
Go look up legoburners trip to China on this site, pretty sure he has done pics of pvc molds in there, or else Google relic Knights molds.
Nope. PVC molds are cheap, soft material. That is why they are still cheaper than aluminum molds. They can do undercuts in PVC because the mold is soft and isn't locked into one plane. The mold lines that travel over a surface and split into multiple lines show how the mold can be cut to open like a chestburster egg. The PVC mold might have a gypsum mother to keep it stable and reduce material, but it still isn't like an injected HIPS mold.
Legoburner went to see Wargames Factory's production, so that was all HIPS with (presumably) steel molds.
JonWebb wrote: Btw, someone mentioned the "soft molds" of pvc, it's actually the same mold set up as for styrene, that's the depressing part. Just the material allows for more organic shapes and undercuts as its still warm and pliable when first cast so can be torn from a mold where styrene would be locked in.
Go look up legoburners trip to China on this site, pretty sure he has done pics of pvc molds in there, or else Google relic Knights molds.
Nope. PVC molds are cheap, soft material. That is why they are still cheaper than aluminum molds. They can do undercuts in PVC because the mold is soft and isn't locked into one plane. The mold lines that travel over a surface and split into multiple lines show how the mold can be cut to open like a chestburster egg. The PVC mold might have a gypsum mother to keep it stable and reduce material, but it still isn't like an injected HIPS mold.
Legoburner went to see Wargames Factory's production, so that was all HIPS with (presumably) steel molds.
Err the molds that PP uses are actually steel molds (I know this because I spoke to some of the PP staffers about various things at Templecon last year). The PVC material that the models are cast in is what is actually soft, it takes some time for the PVC to properly set which allows them to pull the parts out despite undercuts without deforming the models (the elastic memory of the material means that it will return to shape relatively quickly while its still soft).
JonWebb wrote: Btw, someone mentioned the "soft molds" of pvc, it's actually the same mold set up as for styrene, that's the depressing part. Just the material allows for more organic shapes and undercuts as its still warm and pliable when first cast so can be torn from a mold where styrene would be locked in.
Go look up legoburners trip to China on this site, pretty sure he has done pics of pvc molds in there, or else Google relic Knights molds.
Nope. PVC molds are cheap, soft material. That is why they are still cheaper than aluminum molds. They can do undercuts in PVC because the mold is soft and isn't locked into one plane. The mold lines that travel over a surface and split into multiple lines show how the mold can be cut to open like a chestburster egg. The PVC mold might have a gypsum mother to keep it stable and reduce material, but it still isn't like an injected HIPS mold.
Legoburner went to see Wargames Factory's production, so that was all HIPS with (presumably) steel molds.
Err the molds that PP uses are actually steel molds (I know this because I spoke to some of the PP staffers about various things at Templecon last year). The PVC material that the models are cast in is what is actually soft, it takes some time for the PVC to properly set which allows them to pull the parts out despite undercuts without deforming the models (the elastic memory of the material means that it will return to shape relatively quickly while its still soft).
That must be a recent change, and even then I'd bet they are aluminum as the last time I got quotes on that material, there was still a significant price gap. The quantities needed to make it a worthwhile investment, even for gashpon or trading figures, probably shifted the decimal point on the quantity over two or three spaces. To get actual steel molds like they use for plumbing pieces and electrical enclosures, shift that decimal 3-4 spaces. Or that seemed to be the general feeling when I was looking at quotes 6-9 months ago.
JonWebb wrote: Btw, someone mentioned the "soft molds" of pvc, it's actually the same mold set up as for styrene, that's the depressing part. Just the material allows for more organic shapes and undercuts as its still warm and pliable when first cast so can be torn from a mold where styrene would be locked in.
Go look up legoburners trip to China on this site, pretty sure he has done pics of pvc molds in there, or else Google relic Knights molds.
Nope. PVC molds are cheap, soft material. That is why they are still cheaper than aluminum molds. They can do undercuts in PVC because the mold is soft and isn't locked into one plane. The mold lines that travel over a surface and split into multiple lines show how the mold can be cut to open like a chestburster egg. The PVC mold might have a gypsum mother to keep it stable and reduce material, but it still isn't like an injected HIPS mold.
Legoburner went to see Wargames Factory's production, so that was all HIPS with (presumably) steel molds.
Err the molds that PP uses are actually steel molds (I know this because I spoke to some of the PP staffers about various things at Templecon last year). The PVC material that the models are cast in is what is actually soft, it takes some time for the PVC to properly set which allows them to pull the parts out despite undercuts without deforming the models (the elastic memory of the material means that it will return to shape relatively quickly while its still soft).
That must be a recent change, and even then I'd bet they are aluminum as the last time I got quotes on that material, there was still a significant price gap. The quantities needed to make it a worthwhile investment, even for gashpon or trading figures, probably shifted the decimal point on the quantity over two or three spaces. To get actual steel molds like they use for plumbing pieces and electrical enclosures, shift that decimal 3-4 spaces. Or that seemed to be the general feeling when I was looking at quotes 6-9 months ago.
I took a perverse interest in PVC production once it was foistered on us PVC is fine for action figures and certain bedroom purposes, but sucks for quality wargaming pieces.
You are right though, Legoburner went to wargames factory, the PVC for PP/Soda Pop etc is produced by a different factory that I don't know the name of. I was getting my wires crossed there. I originaly thought they were the same place, but speaking to someone in the know he mentioend they were not one and the same.
The multiple mold lines are due to the molds being more than two part, unlike GW, china and much of the manufacturing world figured that tech out long before the baneblade slide mold tech they were so proud of.
Pretty sure they are aluminium not steel of course, to keep costs as low as possible, but appreciate they are still pricey on balance. Even GW is messing with aluminium molds these days (I believe the scenery line was where they started to play with that, but its been a while since I had anything to do with GW, this is more information gleaned from reading about).
I was also intrigued by their new co-op board game...
I literally just bought my third Gargossal today and thought that I was done with them, now these new ones appear...
I'm also very curious about Warmahordes: Descent edition, I was on the lookout for a board / miniature game that I could use to introduce my son to the hobby and this one has potential to be "the one".
It's a miniatures "dungeon crawler" style, full co-op game called "The Undercity". It was announced in their keynote today at Templecon. Fall 2015 release.
ImAGeek wrote: New Colossals! They are just like additional parts on the other ones right? That's what they look like.
While the actual kits will probably use a lot of the same parts, they have been confirmed to be separate kits.
Yeah sorry, bad wording on my part. I guessed they were new kits, but the main part of the Colossals are the same, which was pretty much confirmed when I just watched the video and it referenced how jacks are built on certain chassis. So these are like new Colossals on the same chassis as the old ones?
Thanatos73 wrote: It's just like the heavy jack variants. Same chassis, new weapons loadout. I'm hoping they'll be in the new hard plastic too but we shall see.
I'm gonna guess no, if they're just different guns and a couple of other parts from the last ones.
Thanatos73 wrote: It's just like the heavy jack variants. Same chassis, new weapons loadout. I'm hoping they'll be in the new hard plastic too but we shall see.
I'm gonna guess no, if they're just different guns and a couple of other parts from the last ones.
Yeah, they'll almost certainly be Resin/Metal hybrids. Especially since we've already seen the Cryx one int he video(but people were probably paying more attention to Ruin's cameo)
Thanatos73 wrote: It's just like the heavy jack variants. Same chassis, new weapons loadout. I'm hoping they'll be in the new hard plastic too but we shall see.
I'm gonna guess no, if they're just different guns and a couple of other parts from the last ones.
Yeah, they'll almost certainly be Resin/Metal hybrids. Especially since we've already seen the Cryx one int he video(but people were probably paying more attention to Ruin's cameo)
I did notice Ruin haha. He looks awesome even from the back.
There is a photo with the new Ruin warjack model in the foreground at 3:27 of the Colossals video. Is that the first picture we have of the finished and painted model?
Thanatos73 wrote: It's just like the heavy jack variants. Same chassis, new weapons loadout. I'm hoping they'll be in the new hard plastic too but we shall see.
I'm gonna guess no, if they're just different guns and a couple of other parts from the last ones.
Yeah, they'll almost certainly be Resin/Metal hybrids. Especially since we've already seen the Cryx one int he video(but people were probably paying more attention to Ruin's cameo)
Could still be in hard plastic. The Convergence battle engine is hard plastic as are the new warjack kits. Just depends on how hard it would be to do them in plastic as opposed to resin and metal. I don't mind the resin and metal hybrids as they're still easier to work with than the pvc plastic. Just curious what material they'll be.
Thanatos73 wrote: It's just like the heavy jack variants. Same chassis, new weapons loadout. I'm hoping they'll be in the new hard plastic too but we shall see.
I'm gonna guess no, if they're just different guns and a couple of other parts from the last ones.
Yeah, they'll almost certainly be Resin/Metal hybrids. Especially since we've already seen the Cryx one int he video(but people were probably paying more attention to Ruin's cameo)
Could still be in hard plastic. The Convergence battle engine is hard plastic as are the new warjack kits. Just depends on how hard it would be to do them in plastic as opposed to resin and metal. I don't mind the resin and metal hybrids as they're still easier to work with than the pvc plastic. Just curious what material they'll be.
It's more that they've already released the majority of the model in resin/ metal. Unless they're redoing the old ones in the new material too, there's no reason to believe these are going to be since it's just some new parts for an existing sculpt.
That thing is going to tip over backwards as soon as it fires that main gun. Especially when it's fists are twice the size of its feet.
The gun obviously has a lot of recoil mechanisms in it already, but the Colossal likely would brace itself right before it fires. It wouldn't take more than a second.
That thing is going to tip over backwards as soon as it fires that main gun. Especially when it's fists are twice the size of its feet.
The gun obviously has a lot of recoil mechanisms in it already, but the Colossal likely would brace itself right before it fires. It wouldn't take more than a second.
PP isn't going to get any more of my money until they get away from their PVC. 55$ for ten WoO with terrible spears, boring sculpts, few poses and in PVC. No, thank you. But releasing more and more ZOMGHUGE stuff for a "Skirmish" game is more important than investing in miniature quality, it seems.
At least KS companies have the decency to give out a veritable bucket of minis when you hand them money for PVC models.
Binabik15 wrote: PP isn't going to get any more of my money until they get away from their PVC. 55$ for ten WoO with terrible spears, boring sculpts, few poses and in PVC. No, thank you. But releasing more and more ZOMGHUGE stuff for a "Skirmish" game is more important than investing in miniature quality, it seems.
At least KS companies have the decency to give out a veritable bucket of minis when you hand them money for PVC models.
Well, they're already working on hard plastic stuff, so I don't see how a handful of different parts for existing Colossals is 'releasing more huge stuff rather than investing in miniature quality'.
Well, they're already working on hard plastic stuff, so I don't see how a handful of different parts for existing Colossals is 'releasing more huge stuff rather than investing in miniature quality'.
It probably wasn't that labour intensive in terms of model design and manufacturing to make add on parts to use with their existing moulds, so I agree.
What I would love to see and what would get me buying a lot of miniatures is if next year's "next big thing" from Privateer would be styrene starter sets and styrene heavy and light jack/beast kits for every faction. Followed by a plastic unit per faction by the next year. The same way they launched PVC, but in styrene.
I get that for many of PP's customers, game play is a higher priority and they're willing to accept models in PVC, but I'm definitely only considering their resin and metal releases these days which also means the big ticket sale of me starting a new faction is very, very unlikely. I think there's a large branch of the hobby that prioritizes models higher than game play that are not considering PP right now because of the miniatures.
Styrene launch for all factions starting with battle boxes, heavy and light kits and a unit would go a long way for a lot of people.
I just love that it's actually reasonable to talk about this possibility now. Hopefully their first styrene kits are a huge success and PP runs with the material in a big way.
cincydooley wrote: I'm going to buy the new Cygnar Colossal..but another Colossal variant seems kinda lazy to me, and also seems to go a bit against the fluff...
I mean, aren't colossals supposed to be rare and hard to produce? But apparently not rare and hard enough to find that they have chassis variants?
Again, I'm going to get it....but man, people get on GW for being lazy about their design scope....
They'd have been hard to produce the first time, but these second ones are just weapon changes really. So it doesn't go against the fluff that much, it's just putting different guns on some. The chassis is the same.
The Colossals were a big deal to develop, but once you have a viable design you can crank them out.
Khador put a rush on it because they wanted to get Colossals deployed before Cygnar did. Now that there is parity there isn't a huge sense of urgency.
And really the only new colossals, as far as the fluff is concerned, is Cygnar, Khador, the Galleon, and the Protectorate. Everyone elses has existed in the fluff prior to this. Plus there are the 2 original colossals guarding the primary church of Morrow.
Does Cygnar still exist in the fluff, or is it just one trencher in a tree completely surrounded by every other faction in the game at this point? I haven't read any of the books since Wrath.
I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
Cygnar and Khador have basically stagnated, Point Bourne has been almost completely destroyed. In the middle of the stalemate, Cryx attacked. Khador and Cygnar have cemented a temporary alliance to deal with the Cryx in the Thornwood. the first foray against Asphixious's stronghold was met with disaster, Haley was almost killed and both Khador and Cygnar lost several Colossals. Denny did lose Nightmare to a Stormwall's fist. Haley is still suffering from a poison that makes her unable to use her magic.
the Protectorate continues to gain ground in Llael, although they also have reached a pact with Vladimir to deal with Cryx. Meanwhile, Harbinger and Reznik have undertaken a sneaky converting mission in Umbrey while Khador is distracted. Feora is plotting to set herself up to be the next Hierarch, but Vindictus is keeping an eye on her.
Goreshade has infiltrated into Ios and is preparing to kill Scyrah and Nyssor for good. Meanwhile, Ios is distracted by the Skorne invasion which has successfully penetrated their perimeter walls.
On the Circle/Trollblood front, the Mountain Kings have been released from their rocky tombs. Kreuger is undertaking some elaborate scheme to build some system that can track the movement of dragons, which poisons the lay lines.
Cygnar also recently defeated Terminus and captured the Athanc of the dragon known as the champion which they were transporting to Cryx. They of course don't know what is in the device. Legion has also been trying to get a hold of this Athanc. Cygnar is sending the device to the Wyrmwall mountains, which is practically delivering the Athanc to Blightergast's claws as he lives in the Wyrmwalls.
So either the Champion is going to get released OR Everblight will get to nom a new Athanc. Neither of which is good for Cygnar.
All the while, Magnus is scheming to put Vinter's bastard son on the throne of Cygnar.
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TheKbob wrote: I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
plastictrees wrote:Does Cygnar still exist in the fluff, or is it just one trencher in a tree completely surrounded by every other faction in the game at this point? I haven't read any of the books since Wrath.
Cygnar also has the most dense urban centres. If you look at the numbers for their military, they have huge amounts of people. They're besieged on all sides, but they have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and the most modern transportation and communication systems. Their logistics keeps them in the war. Khador has a slightly larger army, but it's not nearly as modern in terms of organization or deployment. Furthermore, the quagmire in the Thornwood at the centre of the conflict has helped stall everyone out and kept too much of a focused attack from going into the Cygnarian industrial base.
Grey Templar wrote: The Colossals were a big deal to develop, but once you have a viable design you can crank them out.
Khador put a rush on it because they wanted to get Colossals deployed before Cygnar did. Now that there is parity there isn't a huge sense of urgency.
And really the only new colossals, as far as the fluff is concerned, is Cygnar, Khador, the Galleon, and the Protectorate. Everyone elses has existed in the fluff prior to this. Plus there are the 2 original colossals guarding the primary church of Morrow.
Okay, that does make a lot of sense. I must have simply missed that part.
Like I said, I'll still be getting it, but I'm actually more intrigued by the Undercity than I am the new colossals.
Plus there's been talk of the timeline skipping ahead a good chunk and the story moving to focus on the Jr Warcasters who are now full fledged Warcasters so they've had time to design and implement new Colossals.
TheKbob wrote: I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
Considering that a list with Archangels in it won the GenCon Hardcore tournament last year, I fail to see why you are lacking an excuse to use it.
TheKbob wrote: I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
Considering that a list with Archangels in it won the GenCon Hardcore tournament last year, I fail to see why you are lacking an excuse to use it.
I don't know what the lists were but are you sure you're not thinking of Angelius'? You made it sound like there was more than one in the list and that sounds more like it would be multiple Angelius' than multiple Archangels.
TheKbob wrote: I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
Considering that a list with Archangels in it won the GenCon Hardcore tournament last year, I fail to see why you are lacking an excuse to use it.
I don't know what the lists were but are you sure you're not thinking of Angelius'? You made it sound like there was more than one in the list and that sounds more like it would be multiple Angelius' than multiple Archangels.
TheKbob wrote: I hope the Hordes reveal at Smogcon is a complete gutting and rewrite of Gargantuans to make them something that sees table time. I'd love for even the faintest excuse to get an Archangel.
Considering that a list with Archangels in it won the GenCon Hardcore tournament last year, I fail to see why you are lacking an excuse to use it.
I don't know what the lists were but are you sure you're not thinking of Angelius'? You made it sound like there was more than one in the list and that sounds more like it would be multiple Angelius' than multiple Archangels.
Wow, okay haha. Sorry, I was just checking. And I did try to look it up first but I couldn't find the list, and I know the AA isn't very well regarded, particularly competitively, over on the PP forum so just thought I'd check.
Wow, okay haha. Sorry, I was just checking. And I did try to look it up first but I couldn't find the list, and I know the AA isn't very well regarded, particularly competitively, over on the PP forum so just thought I'd check.
That is because the "forums" don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
Wow, okay haha. Sorry, I was just checking. And I did try to look it up first but I couldn't find the list, and I know the AA isn't very well regarded, particularly competitively, over on the PP forum so just thought I'd check.
That is because the "forums" don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
I'm starting to notice how much of an echo chamber it can be, yeah. Again, apologies if I was condescending
Wow, okay haha. Sorry, I was just checking. And I did try to look it up first but I couldn't find the list, and I know the AA isn't very well regarded, particularly competitively, over on the PP forum so just thought I'd check.
That is because the "forums" don't know what they are talking about 99% of the time.
I'm starting to notice how much of an echo chamber it can be, yeah. Again, apologies if I was condescending
You weren't condescending in anyway, don't worry about it.
I was able to purchase the Iron Kingdoms: Unleashed starter kit on TempleCon (along with a sacral vault for a friend...maybe). A few interesting findings:
-I opened the box with glue and knife in hand, only to find pre-assembled, pre-based miniatures. They are very similar to the Bones material in that they are soft but hold detail very well. A few are clearly made up of multiple parts but were already glued together in the box. I haven't found time to try any paint on them, but they seem perhaps a bit shinier than Bones.
-They look pretty awesome, though the gator sniper Lockjaw has a big gap between his tail and body.
-I imagine the Undercity game will feature similar models.
I've seen people mention suspecting that there will be a Minions Gargantuan included in the Gargantuans reveal at SmogCon next week. Is there a source for this anywhere, or is it just speculation? People keep saying the Dracodile, but I don't know if it's just wishlisting or not.
I think this pic is of the Dracodile as shown in the Monsternomicon:
Obviously I'd be thrilled with this, so here's hoping
I really hope we get it. Because it looks freaking awesome, and I will definitely complete my Gator force (which currently consists of Barnabas and a Posse...).
sick of cleaning those 
