Yea, I was REALLY disappointed that the griffons don't look like proper griffons, just sort of were-eagle things with paws. This new one is definitely the best looking in my opinion I think.
Wehrkind wrote: Yea, I was REALLY disappointed that the griffons don't look like proper griffons, just sort of were-eagle things with paws. This new one is definitely the best looking in my opinion I think.
Yup, the Scarsfell Griffon looks a little embarassed to be outside and the Razorwing is a little over the top.
Also agree that the New Beast same as the Old Beast (with a hat) is getting a little tired.
I'm actually loving the variations. Give me more griffins, argus, Warpwolves, Woldbeasts. The Gorax should just be a singular thing, as he is the most like a troll. Skorne are the variety faction, although, I'll buy as many titans as they can make.
Anyone know when the new hordes book is projected to release? since there are already minis for it, I'd hope at least this year.
lord_blackfang wrote: I remember back when I started Circle was the most visually diverse faction. Now we just keep getting variations. 2nd griffon (that's really just a 5th warpwolf with wings) and 3rd argus.
I do like the Griffons myself. With the way I changed the Warpwolf tails and with what I plan to do to Griffons (make them look more like anthro griffons than generic bird man monsters) they'll be more visually distinct. I just wish Circle could afford to run more of the lights and did not need all those Warpwolves to crack armor.
Wow! I've just started Circle and that Griffon looks really nice (unlike the other two, which really show the limits of only using round bases). The Argus looks just like the normal one.
Actually the problem with the Gryphons is that they forced 3 models to share a single body.
The new argus has pit-bull heads, Circle's previous 2 and Butcher's are all wolf/Spitz heads.
That said the plastic lights and pureblood lost a lot in terms of style due to having to share parts.
Vertrucio wrote: So seeing that there's a reboxed sword knights box.
That got me thinking, what if the sword knights got a weapon attachment that was considered a warjack, and had reach?
And weapon master, because why not.
Also it is a unicorn.
The issue, for me, with the warbeast repetition is that PPs plastic is negligibly less of a pain in the bum to convert than metal. They made no effort at all to make 'multi-part' mean 'multi-pose'.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Speaking of reboxes, pretty disappointed that the mechanithralls are sticking around. Around as bad as the Winterguard.
As someone just getting into Warmachine with Khador - what's wrong with the Winterguard?
I...don't know. The Winterguard box received 'plastic' resculpts, whereas the Mechanithralls are just the metal models in a box.
The newer winterguard are a significant improvement on the old metals IMO.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Speaking of reboxes, pretty disappointed that the mechanithralls are sticking around. Around as bad as the Winterguard.
As someone just getting into Warmachine with Khador - what's wrong with the Winterguard?
Sorry, should have clarified- the old winterguard, which were horrible little hunchbacks that I need to spend hours hacking them apart to make 'em okay. Not in love with the new ones, but they're fine.
I think the only real disappointing model of those is the Merc one, simply because all his rules are pretty much about his gun and shooting, and then they make his fig posing with his melee weapons while his unique pistol is holstered.
Wow, I am extremely happy I got the Cryx casters. Such great looking models. Imo, I think eSturgis looks better than his artwork and pSturgis looks better in his artwork.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That jack's hull reminds me of an Ironclad or something from Cygnar.
Maybe it's just the placement of those vents.
The hammer as well.
Nah, it's a Kodiak variant. The next book has new variants on the Kodiak, Seether, Stormclad, and Guardian. We know the Guardian has a sword and shield and I forget the special rules we heard. Seether has Shield Guard, Reach and keeps Soul Drive. At one time we heard about a Khador Jack that was getting a gun with Double Strike which we assume is the new Kodiak.
Laughing Man wrote: Fresh from Privateer's keynote at TempleCon! Pics up as I steal them from Lost Hemisphere! Better pics as I rip them from the video!
First off, Xerxis2! Apparently he's been crippled and has found the most badass wheelchair ever.
Xerxis2 Render
We also have Warbeast Packs, which work something like heavy infantry units with fury! Skorne has adorable death crabs, while Legion has devil wasps.
Minions also get a lot of love, with both subfactions getting a battle engine (gators get a sacrificial altar, pigs get the baconmobile), and pigs also get this... thing. There are no words.
The aforementioned pigmobile.
Also some new heavies and other new casters, who I will get the pics for up as soon as possible!
So much for all the funds I wanted to save for various Kickstarters.
Will definitely get Xerxis. Looks like a fun one to paint.
Pig valkyrie is neat. Did it mention if she's a warlock or a solo?
Gator lock is cool, what with his giant zombified snake hanging off of him.
I will continue to buy all the Trolls they make as I love their designs.
Those crabs are reminding me of the Kaldanes or however they were called from the John Carter books. The little head crab dudes? That picture of the one riding on top of what seems to be a Tharn... they ought to make a model out of that!
Turns out Cephalyx are a Merc contract! More stuff that works for Cryx, and design space is still free for Infernals in Hordes. I will not complain.
Monstrosities! These are their Warjack replacements, and are living models, aren't warjacks, and have a brain instead of a Cortex. Also have low defensive stats but more boxes than UPS.
This bad boy is the Warden: He "hangs out near his warcaster" (shield guard?) and has counter slam in addition to the gribbly stuff seen above.
This is the Subduer. He has a net. He nets things.
This is the nebelwerfer. He werfs ne- Wait, wrong meme. This guy's the Wrecker, and does exactly what it says on the tin.
And here we have the warcaster, Exulon Thexus.
And here we have the Dominator, a UA for any merc unit. It makes them vastly more powerful, but they'll flee automatically if he dies.
And the Mind Bender and Drudges. He's a caster model, and can use his Drudges as one shot arc nodes, burning them out in the process.
A comment from BOLS from someone who seems to be there:
dais wrote:xigence is the next Hordes expansion book. It will contain:
lesser warlocks for each faction. The circle character is a female falconer while the troll is a male blacksmith.
Warbeast units for some factions (no warbeast pack for trollbloods was confirmed)
Female warlocks for minions. The Farrow is Helga the Conqueror who resembles a fat opera Valkyrie. The gatorwoman controls an undead snake.
Two minion battle engines, one for each pact
A character Nephilim heavy warbeast for Legion
Epic Xerxis riding a rhino. Presumably on a 120mm base.
A new IKRPG book for the wilds. It seems to cover hordes except for Skorne.
A new level 7 game that looks a lot like Risk crossed with Independence Day.
New Warmachine mercenary contract: Cephalax. They will have their own book and be pre-released at Lock and Load. They have living monstrosities that work a lot like warjacks but are slightly different. Several new units and solos including an “drudge choir” solo and a magic unit who sacrifices his drudges as spell martyrs. The contract has an emphasis on mind control and repositioning.
New Hordes faction on the way but they aren’t saying what or when.
Warmachine:Tactics Update
-Still in progres.....
-50% done
-Large Orgoth presence in Video Game (Feels like Vikings/Mayan/Aztec combined)
-Everything looks visually very well done, but no real updates on gameplay
-They told us they love us...
Iron Kingdoms
-New book called Unleashed, essentially the Hordes edition of the IKRPG. It is a separate rules system, but fully compatible with IKRPG. Apparently it has a very wild, feral feel.
Hordes: Exigence
-Helga the Conqueror - Pig Caster
-Xerxes2 - Xerxes riding a rhino
-Jagga Jagga (sp?) - Gatormen Warlock
-New Legion Character Warbeast - Nephilim for Saryss/Raes with 2 Affinities dependent upon which twin
-Gatormen Battle Engine - Massive Stone Temple/Pillar pushed by gigantic albino gators. Gathers souls of enemies/friendlies regardless of who kills them
-Farrow Battle Engine - The Meat Thresher. Think of an Ork Battlewagon with a giant grinder on the front.
-Warbeast Packs - Cross between warbeast/unit. "Lesser" lesser warbeasts. Count as units and warbeasts. No damage spiral, damage track. Use Fury that go on the leader of the pack, can't be forced beyond the unit max size.
-Lesser Warlocks for factions, no built in battlegroup but limited in choices
-Circle one visually is awesome
-Trollblood one focuses on Pyre/Slag trolls
-Legion lesser warlock is visually awesome
Level 7
-New Boardgame Level 7:Invasion
-No game details
Warmachine
-Cephalyx are a Merc contract
-Play "very Machiavellan" - Elite leaders commander expendable troops
-Some troops are walking arcnodes that the leaders can shoot spells out of and destroys them in the process
-Very focused on pyschic powers, taking over minds, etc.
-UA that can attach to any small/medium base Merc Unit (doesn't have to be Cephalyx) and takes control of their mind
-Their "jacks" are living models, called monstrosities, don't have a cortex, have a brain system. Don't count as warjacks
-Have a damage grid
-Low defense, medium armor, full damage grid (36 boxes)
-None of them cost above 7 points, aggressively costed
-Subduer (net and spear), Wrecker (2 wrecking balls), and Warden (caster protector)
-First caster has Focus 8, can turn monstrosities into arc nodes, and feat manipulates enemy models
-Sounds like they will play like pirates, lots of powerful solos that buff your infantry that is pretty generic
-Available at Lock n Load
Cyporiean wrote: The fact that the Female Gator Warlock doesn't have tits pleases the ever living hell out of me.
Here here. That they made dragonborn have boobs in 4th edition really annoyed me. Reptiles have really cool opportunities for sexual dimorphism other than scaly hooters.
On the other hand, I'm sad the female piggy only has 2 lol. There were a few female gnolls in the WOTC chainmail lineup with 6, which really sold how strange and different they were.
Ok, enough monster jug talk. The cephalyx look pretty rad. I wonder if they'll have a twist on the focus system like Cyriss in order to encourage jack, err monstrosity use.
Ooh. I wonder why they made Cephalyx Mercs instead of an independent faction. Possibly because they want to allow allying them with Cryx. The art and miniatures previews look awesome.
It will be interesting to see if the Cephalyx cast spells or use some other mechanic. In the picture you see him/it casting at a precusrsor and they are not targetable by spells. It could be just a slip but....
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It will be interesting to see if the Cephalyx cast spells or use some other mechanic. In the picture you see him/it casting at a precusrsor and they are not targetable by spells. It could be just a slip but....
Hey - good spot.
Psychic powers... Psionics?
How about the power to kill a Yak from 200 yards away... with MIND BULLETS!
Agamemnon2 wrote: Ooh. I wonder why they made Cephalyx Mercs instead of an independent faction. Possibly because they want to allow allying them with Cryx. The art and miniatures previews look awesome.
That and I have a feeling that even though they announced Cyriss would get fewer releases than the other factions going forward, there will still be cries about how they are ignored. By not making another intentionally small scale faction, they avoid such complaints, and just get them lumped in with the general merc gripes.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It will be interesting to see if the Cephalyx cast spells or use some other mechanic. In the picture you see him/it casting at a precusrsor and they are not targetable by spells. It could be just a slip but....
Hey - good spot.
Psychic powers... Psionics?
How about the power to kill a Yak from 200 yards away... with MIND BULLETS!
Agamemnon2 wrote: Ooh. I wonder why they made Cephalyx Mercs instead of an independent faction. Possibly because they want to allow allying them with Cryx. The art and miniatures previews look awesome.
That and I have a feeling that even though they announced Cyriss would get fewer releases than the other factions going forward, there will still be cries about how they are ignored. By not making another intentionally small scale faction, they avoid such complaints, and just get them lumped in with the general merc gripes.
They design this stuff a year or more in advance. I doubt a cry over the Cyriss release affected releases going forward unless it's something years down the line.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Ooh. I wonder why they made Cephalyx Mercs instead of an independent faction. Possibly because they want to allow allying them with Cryx. The art and miniatures previews look awesome.
That and I have a feeling that even though they announced Cyriss would get fewer releases than the other factions going forward, there will still be cries about how they are ignored. By not making another intentionally small scale faction, they avoid such complaints, and just get them lumped in with the general merc gripes.
They design this stuff a year or more in advance. I doubt a cry over the Cyriss release affected releases going forward unless it's something years down the line.
Oh sure, shoot down an off the cuff guess with facts and stuff!
That or time travel to warn their past selves of a pile of forum bitching. Your move, Occam's Razor.
This is wrong. This is very very wrong. Not. Enough. Pairs. Of. Breasts ! Have they never seen a sow ? NEED MOAR ! (And apparently, I am not the only one here.)
Well, I can't speak for the French, but all the pig women I've seen in the UK have only had one pair of breasts. (But usually multiple chins and stomachs)
Someone pointed out on the PP forums that Helga NEEDS to be allowed to take Croak Hunters in her theme force (or at least one, and he has to be painted green!)
Wow! Quite a line up for PP! overall, I'm pretty happy with all of this stuff.
New Hordes book:
- love that lesser warlocks are back, and I like the idea that they just specialize in a particular type of faction beast. I do love how weird some of the other minion lesser casters were, though now two are sort of their own factions. I'd love to see more minion 'lesser' casters who are just characters with crazy cool one off beasts.
- The farrow stuff is neat, the meat grinder is definitely on par with most of their stuff. When they began as a 'pseudo-faction', I was pretty psyched and bought a caster, and a few beasts, but since then they haven't impressed me much (although, I LOVE the razor boars! Mostly because I can run them with Rorsh). When they get a Gargantuan, I'll give them another look.
-Gators. Don't play them, don't really know anything about them. Glad to see them getting some love as well. I also applaud the 'no knockery' of the priestess.
-Skorne. YES YES YESS!! Giant rhino mount! Unit of evil crab beasts! Mammoth and reptile hounds!! (yeah, I'm STILL happy about them). Fingers crossed that the new 'lesser' lock has an affinity towards Titans, as they are my favorite warbeasts in the game. I would be happy with one who created a cool Basilisk synergy too though. Did they say if Xerxis Rhino is a warbeast, or just a big mount. i don't think they've ever done that where the caster actually rode their beast into battle. No time like the present I suppose.
-Circle. The lesser girl lock looks cool. I wonder if she has an affinity for the griffins? Seems like they could just turn the skinwalkers into a warbeast unit, and call it a day. They're all plastic now, so I wouldn't be surprised if theres a new kit with similar parts for their unit.
-Trolls. Don't really know much about them, but I'm sure whatever they have will be the bane of my existence soon enough.
-Legion. Never played against them. I like the idea that the character beast works differently with each of the two twins.
Level 7
-Does anyone actually play this? I've never seen or heard of anyone I know actually trying it. They keep making them, so someone must play them.
IK RPG
-looks cool, but don't play it. Hope the new stuff is good for those who do play.
Warmachine
-Cephalyx. They look cool, and I'm glad they're a merc contract instead of a new full blown army. I hope they continue with stuff like this. Are they just in the new book, or a new little supplement book entirely?
- Was there any mention of anything for any of the other factions? Might not get the book if it's mostly Cephalyx and a few things for each of the other factions. Warroom will update all my cards, and since I don't read the fluff, there's no real reason to get it otherwise.
Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Those highwaymen better be packing some serious firepower and skill sets since Trolls are getting skipped over once again for warbeasts.
Maybe they'll give us a new heavy?
Nah.
You understand this is just a sneak peak right? That they don't show everything. And that when they do these xpacs generally all factions are treated as equal in terms of what they get.
I'm digging the Cephalyx so far. The preview video was a good teaser. I always liked the Cephalyx concept, and I'm interested to see where PP goes with it.
RiTides wrote: Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:
Sure, no shortage of big beefy guy miniatures to convert though, although I understand that's not really a WM thing.
You understand this is just a sneak peak right? That they don't show everything. And that when they do these xpacs generally all factions are treated as equal in terms of what they get.
Of course I know that. Dude, a man can dream though.
A MAN CAN DREAM.
Even if Trolls don't end up with a new Heavy (although Circle gets another), I can take solace in the fact that I can get a Xerxismobile and a Baconmobile to drive around the battlefield demolishing everything in their paths.
RiTides wrote: Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:
Totally agree. Even a different set of legs in the kit would at least allow for one different pose. *sigh* Sometimes PP seems a little cheapo on the model side of things, like they don't really try.
Still, I will take great rules and mediocre models over the opposite any day. (At least till I find better models to use )
At least monstrosities should be plastic kits and easy to re-pose. I think it would be cool to get a few trollkin parts and make the monstrosities out to be troll drudges.
As an existing mercenary player I am far more interested in the solos and units and how they fit into the four star syndicate. The warcaster seems cool but the monstrosities are not very compelling when you already have nomads and freebooters in faction.
New Goreshade is very nice. Over on the PP forums folk have reported that this is the convention only version of his resculpt.
While I like the sculpting quality of the Cephalyx (although is that just resin masterage?) I just don't find them interesting. Lot of bare flesh and little else.
Very much looking forward to the new Hordes book, however. That looks to be packed with awesomeness.
Dais wrote: At least monstrosities should be plastic kits and easy to re-pose.
From working on the plastic Mercenary Warjack, I'd say nothing about Privateer plastics is easy. It's a nightmarish material to work with, it doesn't even sand well. That there's only one monstrosity body pose is a giant minus sign in my book. It wouldn't be so bad if it was a neutral pose, but anything with that level of dynamism is going to look bad in multiples
GW did this exact same mistake with the Dark Eldar Grotesques.
I'm liking that Goreshade resculpt, but just not liking the dice.
From the initial preview pic, it looked like he was dragging a soul along with him. I guess I was wrong.
Is there any chance we'll see this new pose get a wider release? I would assume if so it'd be replacing those dice with something else.
The new mounted version isn't going to count as a dragoon and include this pose is it?
I keep waffling on whether or not to order him... and then whether or not to include some other goodies just for free shipping. One of the extreme kits would be fun...
Did they say there would be a different version of the resculpt coming later? I think that would be a first for them as usually their con sculpts don't get a second wide release version like that. They usually just sit as limited availability during events.
And yeah, dynamic mono pose models of something that you're going to take multiples of is something PP does that I hate. The Brute Thralls are another really egregious example of it. Those are the models I'm most likely to replace with something else to increase the visual variety of an army.
Right, so if I want to get deeper into Warmahordes I need to start Mercenaries, Cyriss and every Horde faction to sate my love of the models? Thanks PP.
azreal13 wrote: Well, I can't speak for the French, but all the pig women I've seen in the UK have only had one pair of breasts. (But usually multiple chins and stomachs)
You do not live in the countryside, do you ? Well, neither do I, but look at the picture !
AduroT wrote: And yeah, dynamic mono pose models of something that you're going to take multiples of is something PP does that I hate.
And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.
azreal13 wrote: Well, I can't speak for the French, but all the pig women I've seen in the UK have only had one pair of breasts. (But usually multiple chins and stomachs)
You do not live in the countryside, do you ? Well, neither do I, but look at the picture !
AduroT wrote: And yeah, dynamic mono pose models of something that you're going to take multiples of is something PP does that I hate.
And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.
Just a few.
Most of those are character units of 2 or 3 models, so not very good counterexamples. But Stormfall Archers (and Cephalyx Overlord, even though they are only 3) are a good counterexamples. I guess any rules has its exceptions then .
AduroT wrote: Did they say there would be a different version of the resculpt coming later? I think that would be a first for them as usually their con sculpts don't get a second wide release version like that. They usually just sit as limited availability during events.
I think this is more like the Convergence Steelsoul Protector. It has a standard sculpt and a Limited Edition one.
And Aiyana and Holt, Blyth and Bull, Great Bears, Withershadow Combine, Blackfrost Shard, B13, Visgoth Rhoven, Commodore Cannon, Herne and Jonne, TAC, Chephalyx overlords, Sons of Bragg, Tyrant commander and Std.
Just a few.
Most of those are character units of 2 or 3 models, so not very good counterexamples. But Stormfall Archers (and Cephalyx Overlord, even though they are only 3) are a good counterexamples. I guess any rules has its exceptions then .
AduroT wrote: Did they say there would be a different version of the resculpt coming later? I think that would be a first for them as usually their con sculpts don't get a second wide release version like that. They usually just sit as limited availability during events.
I think this is more like the Convergence Steelsoul Protector. It has a standard sculpt and a Limited Edition one.
Nah, from what I've heard since asking that they Are doing a non limited resculpt that will have a different soul trail without the dice in it.
Well if that Goreshade will return sans dice and dragging a Bane back into action, I think I'll hold off until May.
It seems too nice and dynamic of sculpt for them to waste on a one off con exclusive- most of the previous exclusives seemed more light hearted and fun.
It's great for me as I'd been wanting a Goreshade, and was never too impressed by the original.
Guess I'll have to start in on that pile of Banes I haven't bothered building yet to await the Bastard's return.
Are there more Cephalyx units that PP hasn't previewed yet? I ask since I REALLY like their aesthetic and would love it if they get more models than just what was shown in the keynote address.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: Are there more Cephalyx units that PP hasn't previewed yet? I ask since I REALLY like their aesthetic and would love it if they get more models than just what was shown in the keynote address.
~Tim?
Not entirely sure, but barring the existing models I don't think there'll be too much more in the inital Forces Of Warmachine book. We're probably looking at something very similar to the Mk I Pirates of the Broken Coast release.
In the latest No Quarter there's a tier list that makes the Cephalyx that already exist make sense in a Cryx army. At tier 1 they get one more added to their field allowance and all Cephalyx units have their points costs reduced by one. Tier 2 gives drudges advanced deployment. Tier 3 is a +1 to starting roll. and Tier 4 is a thing of beauty. Offensive upkeeps are placed on enemy non-warlock/warcaster models/units that they'd normally be able to target. And you can take Deathjack and Nightmare as well as some prime-era units and solo staples like warwitches and a skarlock.
And the best part? It's an Wraith Witch Deneghra tier list.
So I'm going to be expanding my Cryx into mecs with this tier lists for sure.
RiTides wrote: Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:
Totally agree. Even a different set of legs in the kit would at least allow for one different pose. *sigh* Sometimes PP seems a little cheapo on the model side of things, like they don't really try.
Still, I will take great rules and mediocre models over the opposite any day. (At least till I find better models to use )
The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting. Very glad our local group does, but sux for everybody else.
Surprised how many people chimed in to agree with this last page (a lot!). PP obviously brings in a lot of sales, at this point in their life cycle they should able to do much better. If anything, they're regressing from a modeling perspective- the OOP troll sculpts were all unique for beasts.
It's frustrating, because the potential is there, but the fact that they are confident people will buy that faction with every large model in an identical, distinctive pose, is a real problem.
Yea, if PP ever puts out a subpar ruleset, they are going to be hosed for new players. Miniatures are definitely not something you want to be skimping on, especially in a lowish model count game. Fielding 3 identical models that are big centerpieces is not exciting, and not many people want to do the kind of converting necessary. I say that based on how many people complain about it vs how many actually convert, so I might be a bit off.
RiTides wrote: Bah, organic models using only one body sculpt being made as modular restic kits means that they're all doomed to have their left fist raised, right fist lowered... just doesn't cut it from a modeling point of view with these big models, imo:
Totally agree. Even a different set of legs in the kit would at least allow for one different pose. *sigh* Sometimes PP seems a little cheapo on the model side of things, like they don't really try.
Still, I will take great rules and mediocre models over the opposite any day. (At least till I find better models to use )
The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting. Very glad our local group does, but sux for everybody else.
Surprised how many people chimed in to agree with this last page (a lot!). PP obviously brings in a lot of sales, at this point in their life cycle they should able to do much better. If anything, they're regressing from a modeling perspective- the OOP troll sculpts were all unique for beasts.
It's frustrating, because the potential is there, but the fact that they are confident people will buy that faction with every large model in an identical, distinctive pose, is a real problem.
Kind of speaking as a fan, but we do allow conversions to a degree, but not at the level one might be familiar with the GW side of things. This being due they have to be able to tell what the model is clearly so no confusing comes about in a tournament setting, which I can understand in that mind set. Also, you have to identify (both you and your opponent) in your squad who is the leader kind of easily.
However, do kind of agree as I concur with Wehrkind. I say at least give use an extra arm or so (well, can be anything in that realm but you get the pic) with a different pose just to change it up from model to model. That being said, the rules enough keep me in the game enough to tolerate the models (that and bit of handiwork on the model a bit) and to make me still do the hobby aspect of it.
In general they haven't taken advantage of anything that plastic offers except reduced cost, which is past on in a pretty marginal way to the consumer.
Multi-part that isn't multi-pose, no additional parts squeezed in to the sprue. Like you said, frustrating.
It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.
None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.
plastictrees wrote: It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.
None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.
That's essentially my issue, I've a friend who's an ex-40K playing PP evangelist (he's a Pressganger and everything) so I've played a few starter level games, and while I won't likely tour around the country to play competitively like he does, I can comfortably see myself adding a standard size force to play the odd game.
However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.
I've seen a few of the recent releases that I'm really liking though, man-on-rhino looks good, as do the KS exclusive casters, so, like I say, I remain optimistic. Really, I need them to drop something awesome this time next year so my queue is relatively empty!
Dais wrote: At least monstrosities should be plastic kits and easy to re-pose.
From working on the plastic Mercenary Warjack, I'd say nothing about Privateer plastics is easy. It's a nightmarish material to work with, it doesn't even sand well.
Too right. I'd happily pay a premium for these things if they were in metal but I'll be damned if I waste good money on their gakky (and dirt-cheap) plastic.
The fact that there are multiple models with the same posing and basic body simply demonstrates that PP's willingness to sacrifice quality for profitability extends beyond raw materials as they are clearly getting two models sculpted for the price of one and a bit.
Well that's disappointing, I was hoping to use a few of the Monstrosities as Ogryns/Mutilators for my Dark Mechanicus, but not if it's just a single-pose kit that builds minor variations; I've seen what happens when you try to convert PP plastics, it isn't pretty, they've somehow managed to combine all the negatives of resin(breaks too easily, warping) with all the negatives of metal(hard to cut, sometimes soft detail), and made it almost as annoying and fruitless to file/sand as Green Stuff on top of that.
Ah well, maybe I'll at least be able to pick up a few of the character models cheap through an online discounter to harvest the "evil" servo-arms from.
RiTides wrote: The problem is, PP "culture" doesn't allow converting.
Well, there is always a long discussion about conversions on the Steamroller.
Players must be unambiguous about model representation. The following rules must be followed when using converted models in organized play. These rules are meant not to limit a player’s modeling options but rather to allow creativity without generating an environment that could become confusing during game play. At his discretion, an EO can make exceptions to these rules to approve any reasonable conversion.
A converted model must contain a majority of parts from the WARMACHINE or HORDES model for which the rules were written. For example, a Testament of Menoth conversion must be composed mostly of parts from the Testament of Menoth model. The end result of any conversion must be clearly identifiable as the intended miniature and must accurately represent its weapons and equipment as listed in its rules.
Any conversions must be clearly pointed out to the opponent before the game to avoid confusion.
On warrior models, converting and swapping weapons is acceptable as long as the new weapon represents the same type of weapon as the one replaced (such as swapping one sword for another). Any feature relating to a weapon’s specific rules must be maintained to avoid confusion on the tabletop. For example, a weapon with Chain Weapon must still be modeled as a chain-style weapon, and a weapon’s length must be comparable when converting weapons with Reach.
Weapons cannot be swapped on warjack and warbeast models. Since many of the ’jacks utilize the same chassis and many of the beasts utilize the same torso, the weapons are the most identifiable part of the model when looking across the tabletop. Converting warjacks and warbeasts is still encouraged, but the aesthetics of the weapons must be maintained. Modifying weapons is permitted as long as the end result is easily identifiable as the intended warjack’s or warbeast’s proper weapon.
Models and units with available upgrade kits are an exception to the standard model conversion rules in three ways. First, because upgrades define an entirely separate set of stats and abilities, these parts must be clearly visible on the model or unit matching the upgrade stat card. For example, a helljack with one claw and one harpoon is not Malice; the model must have the correct head, harpoon blade, and all three spirit parts from the Malice upgrade in order to be considered Malice.
Second, once a model or unit has been converted, it can only be fielded as that model or unit. For example, a Warpwolf with the parts from the Ghetorix upgrade is not an acceptable conversion for use with a Warpwolf Stalker stat card.
Third, in the case of a unit attachment or weapon attachment upgrade, the model(s) that use the upgrade stat card must follow these rules, but the base unit follows the standard conversion policy for warrior model conversions described above. For example, a Black Dragon Officer & Standard must always use the Black Dragon upgrade stat card and an Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard must always use the Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard stat card, but an Iron Fang Pikemen unit without a unit attachment uses its standard stat card whether or not they have Black Dragon shields (or any other reasonable conversion).
Miniatures must be on appropriately sized WARMACHINE or HORDES bases, but scenic details can be added. The base’s perimeter must always be considered when modeling scenic details. While it is acceptable for scenic elements to overhang the base’s edge, the base itself is used for all measurements, not the scenic elements. The edge of a model’s base must not be obscured to the point that accurate measuring becomes difficult or impossible.
Emphasis mine. It is mainly common sense in a competitive environment.
Of course, PP being a private company, they are not going to welcome competitors model stand-in, hence the italic part, but I am pretty sure any tournament not organized by Privateer Press will allow you to use GW grotesques or other third-party parts in your Monstrosities, as long as you respect all the other rules listed here. Especially if you use the official weapons in the conversion !
And since there will likely be no character Monstrosity yet, it makes things easier.
azreal13 wrote: However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.
Maybe the solution will come from reading faction books and looking for fluff or models that gives you an idea for a force with a strong theme. That is how it worked with my “Military cap, cigars and middle-finger” shooty trollblood warband.
plastictrees wrote: It's a really good game. Prone to giving you the most miserable gaming experience you can possibly have, but a good game given good people to play it with.
None of the factions grab me 100%, Cygnar come the closest but have enough duff models that I question why I'm putting time in to assembling/ painting them sometimes.
That's essentially my issue, I've a friend who's an ex-40K playing PP evangelist (he's a Pressganger and everything) so I've played a few starter level games, and while I won't likely tour around the country to play competitively like he does, I can comfortably see myself adding a standard size force to play the odd game.
However, my armies nearly always evolve from a painting/modelling perspective, rather than a gameplay one, so I just don't have it in me to start an army if I don't love the models, or at least most of them. As it stands with PP just now, I simply don't love anything they make enough to start collecting.
I've seen a few of the recent releases that I'm really liking though, man-on-rhino looks good, as do the KS exclusive casters, so, like I say, I remain optimistic. Really, I need them to drop something awesome this time next year so my queue is relatively empty!
Yea, I hear you on that. I would recommend, if you like the rules (which are really satisfying I find) just to make your own armies and write what each model is on the base or something. I do counts as for a lot of stuff and the local guys don't mind, if only because many used to play GW games and are old enough to remember when armies had ~60% of the models released. I might not be able to play in PP sponsored tournaments, but smaller local ones no one seems to mind (or notice half the time) and the general games with the lads go fine.
I have an entire hordes army made of Reaper bones miniatures. It's a skorne army using giants from reaper instead of the elephant titans and various other miniatures instead of the skorne infantry. I got told "no" by a tournament at a convention when I jokingly inquired about playing it, but "yes" at a small store tournament-- probably because I bought the miniatures there.
There's also never been any confusion as to what things are because everything is armed exactly right and I did some conversion and painting to make it extra obvious. The "bronzeback" literally has metal shoulder and back plate armour I added with grey-stuff and it is painted bronze.
I've been trying to paint up my Skorne stuff so I can run full games against family members (my mighty trollbloods staying with me!), but it is a bitch and a half to do all those gold details on just about EVERY SINGLE UNIT they have.
My cataphracts are making me crazy in particular.
I very much agree with everyone's sentiments on the waste of plastic usage. Why bother when I get just get multiples of the same 3 guys? I've been painting some Warders and Champions, and it's made even worse by the fact that both units use the same exact body- just different arms and heads. They're all in the same basic positions. I've tried to fiddle with their basic positioning as much as possible, varying their colors and skin tones, and changing up their bases but it's still pretty obvious they're all based off the same few guys.
With that said, as of late I find myself just collecting random jacks, warbeasts, and casters rather than things I would actually use in an army.
In fact with all my various leaders, I've been trying to figure out how to use them in a Iron Kingdom themed dungeon crawl, since it doesn't seem like Privateer is ever going to get around to making one.
Not sure how handi-capable Xerxis is going to fit into that idea, but I'm sure we'll find a way to shoehorn him in!
I have similar sentiments with mini games. I have to actually like some of the models, before I get into it. Rules don't really interest me that much, and typically they keep me from using all the models I want to in a particular game.
Luckily with Warmachine, I was really drawn to both Khador and Cryx, and finally decided on Khador, way back in 2005.
But other games which I've been told are good like Infinity, and Malefaux, just don't have any models that I find cool in their range.
In the end, if you're going to spend a lot of money on this stuff,you should at least like the models. That's all you're left with, if people stop playing the game in your area.
The "culture" of anti-conversions in Warmachine seems to be simply a forum or region thing in my experience. Everywhere I go it's understood that the conversion Rules are actually more just Guidelines, and I've yet to meet a TO that actually enforced them as written. I postulate they are not Intended to be enforced as written and are more of an Out for TOs to disqualify problem models. I play in the Mid West and have taken my stuff to tournament across Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, and Nebraska, including the big big event Warmachine Weekend. Only once have I had any figs DQed, which was at WMW, and were figs that were pretty much just GW figs on PP bases. Those figs however have been allowed at several other events in other locations.
I have heard of other regions, notably Utah, where they are super strict on the conversions. Even to an extent of creating addition rules like Zero GW parts are allowed on PP models. I've heard people from that area cite how strict and uncompromising the conversion policy is, when it's really just their TOs having a stick shoved up their rears.
It really comes down to the Rule Of Cool and following the Spirit of the conversion rules. Make it a good model that people know you put effort into making look good, and make it generally look like what it's supposed to be, and very few people will care.
Yeah, people hate on conversions and counts as models on the forums, but not really in real life. i think the same people who will bitch about it behind a screen will smile and enjoy the game in person.
In person:
"Oh, so that female miniature with a pole-hammer, a boiler on her back and a quad barrel gun standing on an ice block is eSorscha? Awesome!"
Later, on the internet:
"This guy had these non-standard models and it sucked. How am I supposed to tell things apart?"
Well, my experience is "wow, did you use a bunch of PP bits or sculpting to convert your minis? Cool!" "Oh, did you use some GW bits to convert those minis? Boo, hiss!" ...and that isn't about my personal conversions, just watching people get reamed by fanboys for using the Evil et cetera's line.
I'm surprised to hear that people get so picky about conversions with PP stuff. One of the things I loved about them initially, was that they didn't care if you brought painted stuff to tournaments.
I can't imagine most people could call you out on wysiwyg-edness, as most models i the game have no weapon options.
That being said, it is annoying when someone wants to use a completely different model to represent something that looks nothing like it. " I just think the Dire Troll Mauler is a cool model, that's why I'm using him as the deathjack. What do you mean, it's not thematic? It's awesome BRA!"
I've got a few painted Reaper figures tucked in a unit of Bane Knights. They were expensive enough as it was- I didn't want to go buy any more!
Never had an issue there.
Then again I tend to only really play with family, so maybe my view is a bit skewed. But what the hell, they're all armored ghostly skeleton knights, so they fit the part pretty well.
My biggest ones are using Dark Eldar Wracks as Cephalayx Drudge Slaves, I've got Caine and Jarl with their heads replaced with skulls as my two Pistol Wraiths, a Trollkin Bouncer with some conversion work as my Gerlak Slaughterborn, GW Fenrisian Wolves as my Circle War Wolfs and a GW Thunderwolf mount as my Laris. Everything is pretty obvious what it is and virtually no one questions any of it save one particular guy who's opinion I dismiss out of hand.
Like I said, it's pretty much a forum thing, where people will question its legality when they see pictures of it online, or a few select areas/individuals. By and large, if it's obvious what it's supposed to be, no one cares.
spiralingcadaver wrote:Well, my experience is "wow, did you use a bunch of PP bits or sculpting to convert your minis? Cool!" "Oh, did you use some GW bits to convert those minis? Boo, hiss!" ...and that isn't about my personal conversions, just watching people get reamed by fanboys for using the Evil et cetera's line.
I ended up using GW Dark Eldar Wych miniatures as my Nyss Hunters in my cryx army and I have yet to come across this, but I could totally see it happening. What I have experienced is people hating on my 3rd party miniatures when I played 40k. Maybe 10 years back when 40k was held hostage to notions of everything having to be "official" and "tournament legal" to a far greater degree than you'll find among PP's player base. I tend not to let people say bad things about the things I like in person without a very matter of fact response. Usually it's "I use the models I like with the rules I want, what's that to you?"
Platuan4th wrote:I use the Corvis City Guard as Steelheads, never had a problem yet.
I have a unit of these as well. I think it's seen often enough that people think of them as alt-sculpt steelheads.
They did say trolls would be recieving something "juicy" at their keynote speech, after saying trolls wouldn't be recieving a new "Warbeast pack". Obviously this will be what they get instead, the question is whether it'll be a new regular Gargantuan, a character upgrade for a mountain king or possibly even a gargantuan mount for a warcaster. My guess would be character mountain king for Gunnbjorn, due to the cygnar-like tech on the fist.
Of course, it could be just a really really large fist for a new heavy as well... But I think it's too large for that, even accounting for the massive fists of dire trolls.
I won't be a character upgrade for a Mountain King because it's fists are not seperate parts that would allow that to be swapped on. It would have to be its own complete kit.
I am one happy trollkin seeing the size of that fist and imagining what it belongs to!
Be it a new gargantuan (which seems odd to have more than one), a new heavy (that's a big fist for just a heavy), or something in between- maybe a new Doomy riding on top of a new best friend?
A new epic warlock riding on something big seems like a good bet. Skorne's getting one, legion's got one, Circle's got mounted warlocks already... time for trolls?
Interesting to see that fist is totally armored too. It's not all patchwork leather like most troll stuff. Almost makes me wonder if it's got jack armor plating strapped to it or something.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I am one happy trollkin seeing the size of that fist and imagining what it belongs to!
Be it a new gargantuan (which seems odd to have more than one), a new heavy (that's a big fist for just a heavy), or something in between- maybe a new Doomy riding on top of a new best friend?
A new epic warlock riding on something big seems like a good bet. Skorne's getting one, legion's got one, Circle's got mounted warlocks already... time for trolls?
Interesting to see that fist is totally armored too. It's not all patchwork leather like most troll stuff. Almost makes me wonder if it's got jack armor plating strapped to it or something.
Regardless, I am intrigued!
The armour looks almost cygnarian to me, and possibly mechanical, and I don't think Doomy, being the arch conservative traditionalist that he is, would have much truck with that sort of thing, which is why I'm leaning towards it being something to do with Gunnbjorn.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: I won't be a character upgrade for a Mountain King because it's fists are not seperate parts that would allow that to be swapped on. It would have to be its own complete kit.
True, though it's possible they sculpted different arms as well, but I think you're right that it does make it more likely it's a completely new sculpt if it's a gargantuan.
Maddermax wrote: The armour looks almost cygnarian to me, and possibly mechanical, and I don't think Doomy, being the arch conservative traditionalist that he is, would have much truck with that sort of thing, which is why I'm leaning towards it being something to do with Gunnbjorn.
Yes Gunnbjorn ! My favorite (and only) Warcaster getting something new ? Would be awesome. Needs BIG guns. And military cap. And cigars, but I will add it myself.
Please be 3Doomshaper riding a giant troll. I agree that the armor doesn't quite fit his outlook, but he's also had a very "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY" outlook on things, especially with the awakening of the MKs in the first place.
As conservative as Doomy is, I don't see him being beyond re purposing scrapped Cygnarian jack pieces to a big super heavy dire troll. Spoils of war and all.
However I'd be all for Gunny getting an upgrade, but I always expected to see Gunnbjorn getting some ex- trencher buddies involved in the war. It's not like he was the only Troll that served, right?
I look forward to the day that Borka gets an epic version. He already rocks- is it possible he can rock any harder? Not many warlocks can claim they've got brass balls on their figure!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: As conservative as Doomy is, I don't see him being beyond re purposing scrapped Cygnarian jack pieces to a big super heavy dire troll. Spoils of war and all.
However I'd be all for Gunny getting an upgrade, but I always expected to see Gunnbjorn getting some ex- trencher buddies involved in the war. It's not like he was the only Troll that served, right?
I look forward to the day that Borka gets an epic version. He already rocks- is it possible he can rock any harder? Not many warlocks can claim they've got brass balls on their figure!
I want a Borka Long Rider cav warlock, with a feat called Under The Influence.
The Keg Carrier is still there, but he's riding a pig.
I want a Borka Long Rider cav warlock, with a feat called Under The Influence.
The Keg Carrier is still there, but he's riding a pig.
That would be quite cool. That pig better be loaded with extra kegs too. Have all piled up like all the sorcerers and scribes have their piles of scrolls stacked all over them.
Over a year of public beta testing, a full development team, and a $60 purchase and they might finally catch up to one that one guy was doing for free in his spare time!
AduroT wrote: Over a year of public beta testing, a full development team, and a $60 purchase and they might finally catch up to one that one guy was doing for free in his spare time!
I know, right? That really bothers me about PP... was a very uncool move on their part. And to top it off, they've failed at it badly... should've just paid that guy!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: As a Trollblood player that fights a lot of Menoth, that does not make me a happy camper.
That Lamentation of Suffering is going to be unpleasant for just about everybody.
That Take Down is going to suck too. And everything bursting into flames upon getting hit by Reznik's Verdict.
I can't really read the spells, but I'm sure they will add to the pain all us Unbelievers deserve in those zealot's eyes.
I guess I better bring some pyre trolls.
Creator's Wrath: Additional die on melee attack and damage rolls, plus ignore defense and armor bonuses from spells. Death March: +2 MAT and Vengeance to a unit. Iron Aggression: Free slams, charges, and runs for a warjack. Also boosted melee attack rolls. Lamentation: Double the cost of enemy spells in his CTRL. The Flesh is Weak: POW 12 AoE 4 RNG 8, living and undead models hit by it can't run or charge for a round.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, partial Imperatus spoiler!
Verdict:
Pow: 6
P+S: 13
Magical
Reach
Flameburst:
When this models boxes an enemy model with this weapon, enemy models within 1" take continuous fire.
Mount:
Pow: 12
Abilities:
Terror
Lamentations of the Suffering:
While this model has 1 or more focus on it, non-magical ranged attacks automatically miss.
Take Down: No tough rolls for you and you are removed from play when he boxes you.
Feat:
Enemy models within control range receive -2 Def. When an enemy model is boxed within control area, center a 4" aoe on them. Models under the aoe suffer an unboostable pow 12.
13/17 on a huge base is pretty iffy to me. On on hand, I would think eMorv (and maybe eLich?) would hate this guy---but on the other hand, he's a 13/17 on a Huge base that has a lot of upkeeps. Don't know, will need to see him played--but I wouldn't think he dislodges Harby against Cryx. I wouldn't be super excited as a Menoth player..but maybe I just need to see him on the table.
AgeOfEgos wrote: 13/17 on a huge base is pretty iffy to me. On on hand, I would think eMorv (and maybe eLich?) would hate this guy---but on the other hand, he's a 13/17 on a Huge base that has a lot of upkeeps. Don't know, will need to see him played--but I wouldn't think he dislodges Harby against Cryx. I wouldn't be super excited as a Menoth player..but maybe I just need to see him on the table.
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there. He's Ok, but not balls out good like eMorv or Butcher3. That said, eMorv will be a good match up for him I think, but I definitely wouldn't drop him vs eAsphyxious, because even a few non-RFP banes that got feated back to life would mince eReznik on his huge base.
AgeOfEgos wrote: 13/17 on a huge base is pretty iffy to me. On on hand, I would think eMorv (and maybe eLich?) would hate this guy---but on the other hand, he's a 13/17 on a Huge base that has a lot of upkeeps. Don't know, will need to see him played--but I wouldn't think he dislodges Harby against Cryx. I wouldn't be super excited as a Menoth player..but maybe I just need to see him on the table.
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there. He's Ok, but not balls out good like eMorv or Butcher3. That said, eMorv will be a good match up for him I think, but I definitely wouldn't drop him vs eAsphyxious, because even a few non-RFP banes that got feated back to life would mince eReznik on his huge base.
I dunno if I'd count him out. He has some nice dynamics going. Between lamentation and near immunity to non-magic shooting he locks out a chunk of potential damage. His offensive spell can knock out potential charges and he can still upkeep 3 spells, cast it and have at least one focus left for his anti-ranged. IA gives him some jack utility, vengeance and +2 mat on exemplar errants makes them even more annoying and deadly and his feat also synergizes well with them as they can clean infantry off the board with ease opening charge lanes for his jacks. I'd probably run a Judicator with him just to get him even more focus efficient and a hierophant and wracks to make sure he has focus to boost his armor sufficiently at all times. A Devout may not be a bad idea either to take key ranged magical weapon shots off of him.
If PP ever produces a line I like at least 75% of the models in I'd be sold. As it stands I just can't find enough models from any faction that I like that I could use to build an army.
I hear it's a good game and it has a solid following locally but I'm not going to paint stuff I just don't like to play a game.
Hulksmash wrote: If PP ever produces a line I like at least 75% of the models in I'd be sold. As it stands I just can't find enough models from any faction that I like that I could use to build an army.
I hear it's a good game and it has a solid following locally but I'm not going to paint stuff I just don't like to play a game.
One of the game's draws for me was that factions had such different
looks within them. I didn't have to paint the same looking thing
over and over again, but I see your point.
Hulksmash wrote: If PP ever produces a line I like at least 75% of the models in I'd be sold. As it stands I just can't find enough models from any faction that I like that I could use to build an army.
I hear it's a good game and it has a solid following locally but I'm not going to paint stuff I just don't like to play a game.
There is definite adaption phase coming from 40k. When I first started things looked odd, but as I got more into it, the more I liked things.
I think that Convergence of Cyriss is the closest I've gotten to a faction that made me say "I want THAT!"
Still, I had two nagging problems: (a) the difficulty in converting models to different poses without hacking and reattaching, and (b) concerns over the quality of the plastic that the Convergence warjacks are made from (which I've read can be shoddy in terms of mold lines and detail quality).
I think that producing some models that can be positioned easily in different poses (especially in group kits where duplicates are quite noticeable) will do a lot to bring in people on the fringe of the game looking in.
Accolade wrote: I think that Convergence of Cyriss is the closest I've gotten to a faction that made me say "I want THAT!"
Still, I had two nagging problems: (a) the difficulty in converting models to different poses without hacking and reattaching, and (b) concerns over the quality of the plastic that the Convergence warjacks are made from (which I've read can be shoddy in terms of mold lines and detail quality).
I think that producing some models that can be positioned easily in different poses (especially in group kits where duplicates are quite noticeable) will do a lot to bring in people on the fringe of the game looking in.
There is some bad ones though the ones I got in the Battle box were fine.
Yea, the models kept me out of the game for a while, but once I got my toes in I find they don't bother me as much. Granted, I convert and use counts as a fair bit, but really even the ones I don't I hardly notice on the table. I think the new Cephalax are going to be worse than most for that given their jacks, but really for most factions you take one of each type of thing with maybe a double of a unit/beast here and there, so it doesn't stand out as much as one might worry.
Plus you get so wrapped up in charge lanes and threat distances you hardly notice the models
Plus you get so wrapped up in charge lanes and threat distances you hardly notice the models
All sorts of this right here. I'm normally looking at the bases unless I need to remind myself what that thing I'm facing down does, then I look to see what it looks like.
I kind of want to get this face as a head, and replace all my Nyss hunters' heads with it:
Partially to see how long it would take before anyone noticed they all had the same face, and partially because it is still better than Nyss Hunters's heads.
Someday a warjack designer will come along and spark a revolution in the Iron Kingdoms by designing a frame that is able to actually stands up straight rather than constantly squatting.
Imperatus does look nice though. PP has never failed me yet with nice and chunky model designs.
Someday a warjack designer will come along and spark a revolution in the Iron Kingdoms by designing a frame that is able to actually stands up straight rather than constantly squatting.
Imperatus does look nice though. PP has never failed me yet with nice and chunky model designs.
Ret 'jacks are much better about squatting leg syndrome.
Someday a warjack designer will come along and spark a revolution in the Iron Kingdoms by designing a frame that is able to actually stands up straight rather than constantly squatting.
Imperatus does look nice though. PP has never failed me yet with nice and chunky model designs.
Ret 'jacks are much better about squatting leg syndrome.
I think the digitigrade legs help.
The Merc jacks aren't really squatting, either.
Except the Vanguard. He's the epitome of 'Jacks popping a squat.
They said they were giving Ret an "apotheosis level" character warjack, and it seems like they delivered on that promise in style Nice sculpt with nicer rules, but I think Ret deserves the top shelf stuff it's getting in this release anyway.
Maddermax wrote: They said they were giving Ret an "apotheosis level" character warjack, and it seems like they delivered on that promise in style Nice sculpt with nicer rules, but I think Ret deserves the top shelf stuff it's getting in this release anyway.
That's cool of them to think about doing stuff like that. Those Jacks from Apotheosis were all really cool, and weren't tied to any one caster. I would hope they'd do something similar for the Mercs, Rhulic, Cyris (sp?Robobots), Pirates, and now Cephalyx.
Also, Hordes could totally use something like this as well. Just big/cool/powerful warbeasts who don't snuggle up to any one warlock in the faction.
I'm disappointed in the lack of Tusks on the Cryx Jack. Apparently the Necrotechs forgot how to make those in MkII as not a Single Helljack has come out with them.
Laughing Man wrote: Given the rumors of a ROF 5 double strike gun on the Grolar, I'm rather excited. Also, actual mechanika on a Menoth jack is interesting.
I'm just glad that the Grolar has a hammer - love that look, and now I won't have to start a Cygnar faction to have one!
Inflictor is the only one that really stands out to me- the rest look like they're just models of current jacks with new flashy weapon loadouts (which they very well could be).
Inflictor seems to have vials of liquid above his right shoulder. Maybe a bile cannon of some sort?
I should keep my mouth shut until we see the book and totally do a 180 and want them all.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Inflictor is the only one that really stands out to me- the rest look like they're just models of current jacks with new flashy weapon loadouts (which they very well could be).
They are. They're new versions of the modified Warjacks of Renown(Seether, Stormclad, Guardian, Kodiak). The Inflictor is a modified Seether.
He must have been eating his vegetables, as he looks pretty nice and healthy for being undead. Skin's a good green color, and all that jaundice and gauntness seems to have passed.
Terminus needs to get on the same diet, get those limbs straightened out. Poor guy must have suffered from rheumatoid arthritis at some point in his past life.
I do like the Ptotectorate's new jack even if it doesn't have reach. Built in no magic combined with a Choir giving it safe passage makes it pretty much immune to ranged attacks so it'll get into melee. ARM 21 with the shield is nice, and the ability to deny enemy spell casting is very nice. SPD 4 sucks, and the fact that the Protectorate didn't really need another beat stick jack will kind of limit it's use I think.
I was disappointed in the Cygnar one the most. More lightning and low POW shenanigans in a faction that already has tons of it.
I'm going to sit here giggling about how awesome the Grolar is, even if I'm inevitably going to be calling it a Pizzly for the next eternity. More shots than I know what to do with, all against a target that's more than likely knocked down from Ram on the hammer. Definitely a great solo/light Warjack hunter, and the hammer will let it kill high defense beasts and casters dead.
Someone needs to do the math on when you are better off buying shots with the gun vs swings with the hammer. I figure it is probably if 1: the target got knocked down and 2: it has armor <17 and or transfers, but someone with maths should it good do. I just write.
Wehrkind wrote: Someone needs to do the math on when you are better off buying shots with the gun vs swings with the hammer. I figure it is probably if 1: the target got knocked down and 2: it has armor <17 and or transfers, but someone with maths should it good do. I just write.
Against Warlocks...I guess, maybe. But even if you give him 3 Focus, spend 1 for +2 speed...that's what..a 9.5 inch threat (assuming no boundless charge) and he gets there with 1 Focus left? That requires your opponent making a pretty bad mistake.
I don't know, I want to like him from the picture...but he doesn't seem too impressive to me. I'd rather have a 7 point Jugger!
Haven't played WM in nearly two years and the Reliant already looks boring. Thank GOD Cygnar get a jack that can kill infantry and tickle everything else with lightning.
Biggest use I see for the Grolar is as an assassination vehicle - attach it to Malakov (the new journeyman warcaster), redline it, free slam to knock something important down, then buy 4 shots into what you just knocked down (caster hopefully). Or if you can get something else to knock down or stationary the enemy caster, trample up to 11" with redline to get position, then 4 shots into caster. Only POW 12s, but for Warlocks, who rely on transfers, many small hits like that would present a problem for them.
Then again, just having a jack that can slam/charge/trample 11" *without caster help*, not to mention the beat back and auto-knock down effects at the end. It's a pretty good jack, even at 9 points.
Now, the Protectorate jack...
Biggest use for it I see is painting practice, shelf sitting, or possibly as a desk ornament. Garden Gnome, paper weight or doorstop also options, though he might not be weighty enough for those uses. I do look forward to the new multi-kit being released however, because it will mean conversion bits (and for IKRPG), and the possibility of a third jack on the chassis, possibly a useful one this time (Guardian is useful occasionally too).
Basically, it has a 7.5" threat range, it's possible to have it run and disturb a casters upkeeps if they're silly and wander within 13" of it and there's a clear path possibly, but... it's so corner case that it's not funny. Otherwise you end up with just a worse Templar. No spells is nice, but the choir usually suffices anyway, Blessed is nice, but as a faction we have the most ways of removing upkeeps of anyone (pKreoss, Harby and Kreoss3 all have instant upkeep removal, and they're 3 of our biggest competitive casters), and then there's blessed halberds and crossbows, Eyriss, Reznik's/pSevvy's feats prevent upkeeping, various spells and so on. It's not that hot on something that really doesn't threaten much anyway. I could *maybe* see a Harby theme force, designed to be all ARM21 models, with Avatar and a line of Indictors completely immune to spells and shooting... but even then, I think I'd rather Templars and the threat range/movement shenanigans they offer. Just my thoughts anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: Haven't played WM in nearly two years and the Reliant already looks boring. Thank GOD Cygnar get a jack that can kill infantry and tickle everything else with lightning.
Large AOE stationary effects should not be taken lightly, I think, and while the gun isn't that exciting in a faction of good guns, more AOE denial simply adds the the wall of infantry denial that your stormwall lays down, so it won't be wasted.
Those are my kinda trolls. Slowly but surely I'm going to assemble me the most rootinest, tootinest, ragtag, nogood, doublecrossin', Trollkin varmints this side of the Sierra Madres.
I shall name the leader "El Guapo."
Would you say he has a plethora of guns and ammunition?
Elemental wrote: This is the book with the Colossal and Tactical Arcanist Corps, it's just they got previewed and released months ago
Yeah. Rhulic's got stuff pretty steadily. It's not enough for the
Rhulic-only players, but they still get a steady stream. Then if
that's not enough, they also get access to the rest of the merc
stuff via contracts, so new merc releases means the potential
for new stuff to use with your rhulic caster that counts as faction.
Is he Khador or Thornfall?
I'd imagine the latter, but i would hope he's be able to be used in both.
Do we think this is a reg. sized Farrow, or a new warbeast?
If he is reg. sized, solo, or unit?
If he is a warbeast, that is ONE BIG HONKIN SWORD!
I think they said quite reccently, that there will be no Minion WARBEAST with reach anytime soon. So this is either a solo (quite probably since Legion just got a melee character solo) or a unit.
I guess he's going to be a character solo with an interesting background.
Any news or olds on the new Cephalix faction rumoured
I hope so badly that this happens. I love those miniatures and being able to play them would be something of a dream more than a dissapointment
Admittedly they probably aren't going to rewrite the rules for the current units but they might gain ability with synergy. It's possible that they'll get OP casters to balance them out
By the fact they only have one caster they're looking a lot like a Cryx tier list without the tiers
This may be everything I've ever wanted from a faction
The stats seem heavily skewed, putting emphasis on damage boxes and rules like tough rather than raw statistics. It takes pretty much everything I loved about Cryx with nicer miniatures
Has anyone heard more about this very interesting looking UA
Is it a bit like Jonas Murdoch only you can take faction models rather than mercs, in which case it'll need some diabolical balancing; or is it an in game possession thing?
RoninXiC wrote: I think they said quite reccently, that there will be no Minion WARBEAST with reach anytime soon. So this is either a solo (quite probably since Legion just got a melee character solo) or a unit.
I guess he's going to be a character solo with an interesting background.
He's a solo named Maximus. We actually knew about him before the art thanks to the PP podcast.
borka on a polar bear...........glorious
though i already need to work on a better way to store my trolls, and that presumably huge model will not help
I like to think that it's a new bear every single battle that Borka drunkenly steals....from a bear store? I'm not super clear on how Troll society works.
plastictrees wrote: I like to think that it's a new bear every single battle that Borka drunkenly steals....from a bear store? I'm not super clear on how Troll society works.
He just leaves apples out every night, just in case. If there is a battle the next day, he suddenly mounts the unsuspecting bear and rides him to it.
Images of the upcoming lesser warlocks and Imperatus
Oooh, the Circle lesser looks amazing, and the Skorne lesser has a wonderful dynamic look. I think that circle model in particular will be a brilliant painting piece, just lots of very nice detail. The Legion model (just a solo apparently - legion already have a lesser warlock) looks nice, but probably not as standout as the other two.
The Trollbloods caster... weapons look awesome, pose has potential, but the arm being under the huge chin makes him look a bit awkward - a little like he's strangling himself. Probably could be corrected with a little green stuff, and a few millimeters change for the arm angle.
That Skorne lesser is pretty great looking. The Circle on is nice, though perhaps a little busy. Which is odd, usually I find Skorne to be the faction more overwhelming to the eye. Probably just the combo of paint, light, glass case and photo.
Troll one looks ok. The legion solo looks a little static to me, but not bad. Imperatus is pretty cool looking, even though I normally don't like the Retribution aesthetic.
The Skorne lesser is probably one of the best models I've seen from Privateer Press. The motion, simplicity and proportions look very good (other than the big honkin sword but a know).
Word is that the troll lesser lock has Hotshot as a spell. That should be a good time with all those spitty troll lights! I wouldn't be surprised to see the slag troll one shotting Cryx arc nodes.
Wehrkind wrote: Una will make you a sad panda if you play Circle :(
Not sure why. The griffins are pretty neat, and she makes them a hell of a lot more focus efficient (not to mention lets them fully take advantage of flight).
Tyrant Zaadesh and a bunch of Reptile Hounds will be hilarious though.
Wehrkind wrote: Una will make you a sad panda if you play Circle :(
Not sure why. The griffins are pretty neat, and she makes them a hell of a lot more focus efficient (not to mention lets them fully take advantage of flight).
Tyrant Zaadesh and a bunch of Reptile Hounds will be hilarious though.
The Rotterhorn looks to be good, and she will make him cheaper, but that is still 1 point more expensive than using him on your warlock. Dogpile is pretty cool, but perhaps redundant with Black Clads and Lanyssa. A Razorwing gets no benefit from her other than a points decrease. And Scarsfell... gains nothing again.
As a 2 point boostable Dogpile and shooting bot, she isn't too bad. She just doesn't make griffons much better. Lots of us were hoping she would give her battlegroup sprint, or something to let them survive a bit so we are not throwing a 5 point model at 2-3 infantry then getting it blendered. Really though, any battlegroup spell that wasn't Watcher would have been nicer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, just noticed, new argus and rotterhorn are very aggressively priced at 4 points each. Very nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, she is boosting Dogpile off Fury 4... that is terrible, I was mistaken.
Wehrkind wrote: Una will make you a sad panda if you play Circle :(
Not sure why. The griffins are pretty neat, and she makes them a hell of a lot more focus efficient (not to mention lets them fully take advantage of flight).
Tyrant Zaadesh and a bunch of Reptile Hounds will be hilarious though.
The Rotterhorn looks to be good, and she will make him cheaper, but that is still 1 point more expensive than using him on your warlock. Dogpile is pretty cool, but perhaps redundant with Black Clads and Lanyssa. A Razorwing gets no benefit from her other than a points decrease. And Scarsfell... gains nothing again.
As a 2 point boostable Dogpile and shooting bot, she isn't too bad. She just doesn't make griffons much better. Lots of us were hoping she would give her battlegroup sprint, or something to let them survive a bit so we are not throwing a 5 point model at 2-3 infantry then getting it blendered. Really though, any battlegroup spell that wasn't Watcher would have been nicer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, just noticed, new argus and rotterhorn are very aggressively priced at 4 points each. Very nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, she is boosting Dogpile off Fury 4... that is terrible, I was mistaken.
She's 5 points with a rotterhorn, and that's double or triple casting it's animus a turn. Even if you only manage to get one good charge/shot out of the pair, they've probably paid for themselves, especially when you consider the Rotterhorns anti-infantry blast thingy. She'll probably want 2 beasts to keep up her fury, but honestly, you could just take the pair and cut for an extra a turn if needed, because she'll probably die in a single shot anyway, her def and a transfer is her defense mechanism.
Turns out she is 6 with Rotterhorn (unless she costs two herself?) I was incorrectly assuming she was 2 points; it seems all the lessers are 3 points, then she gives the 4 point Rotterhorn (!) a discount of 1. 6 points for the two is probably pretty good, spamming the animus and getting a random sneaky shot to snipe a UA or solo. Just feeling REALLY one dimensional at the moment.
Another update on Una; turns out her ranged weapon ignores the firing into melee penalty, and has three shots per turn (not ROF 3, so she doesn't need to spend fury for the last two attacks). Dogpile is deeply useless on her, because when is she going to be further forward than her battlegroup, and blow 3/4's of her fury on one spell that's far from guaranteed to hit? And I can't see myself using the other two griffons on her, since the Scarsfell is just generally useless and the Razorwing will shoot out her control area after one trample. But I can very easily see myself taking her and two Rotterhorns as a 9pt-package. Multiple uses of a great animus, a good boostable gun, and an auto-hitting special action to clear light and medium infantry is excellent.
With anti-Stealth and Mark Target, the Moonhound really gives Circle some ranged game at long last.
B) Yes it was flawed its been updated with moonies animus which makes it surprising they wouldn't have fixed Una as well. I'd love for it to be the case just looking for some sort of quality confirmation.
Sorry, I would have been more loquacious but my cat was pinning down my right hand, and typing was rough going
Apparently Warroom is still trying to get its big boy pants on right, instead of both legs in one hole etc. but the models are available at Adepticon so people are slowly reporting back from there. Proper confirmations from pictures of cards etc should be hitting the 'nets here in a bit, as the PP store opened today from what I understand, but there is a lot of gaming and drinking to do before they get posted
Surtur wrote: I'm curious as to how well the war beast units will work with these guys
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the troll is disgustingly good against colossals. 24 damage a turn at range 10 for 3 points is just wrong.
The molten metal spell does only 6 damage to Colossals - it only hits one Grid. This has been confirmed by infernals.
Still, 12 damage to a heavy from a 3pt solo at range isn't bad, though it will mean he becomes paste next turn without transfers. Team him up with a Slag troll (8pts total), upkeep hotshot, cast Molten Metal once, and they'll nearly be able to cripple a heavy at range with ease, and still have a fury for transfer. Not bad. If you put him with two lights (he could defintiely rock a slag/Pyre combo, or 2 slags), you'd definitely have to invest some effort in keeping him safe, however - I think he'd really like Janissas wall to hide behind, or a solid unit of some sort.
Surtur wrote: I'm curious as to how well the war beast units will work with these guys
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, the troll is disgustingly good against colossals. 24 damage a turn at range 10 for 3 points is just wrong.
The molten metal spell does only 6 damage to Colossals - it only hits one Grid. This has been confirmed by infernals.
Still, 12 damage to a heavy from a 3pt solo at range isn't bad, though it will mean he becomes paste next turn without transfers. Team him up with a Slag troll (8pts total), upkeep hotshot, cast Molten Metal once, and they'll nearly be able to cripple a heavy at range with ease, and still have a fury for transfer. Not bad. If you put him with two lights (he could defintiely rock a slag/Pyre combo, or 2 slags), you'd definitely have to invest some effort in keeping him safe, however - I think he'd really like Janissas wall to hide behind, or a solid unit of some sort.
Thank god because that is not at all what the spell implies.
Yeah the Molten Metal spell has been errated. However, think on this;
Horgol
--Slag
--Slag
That's a 13 (?) point module. Let's go all in on a Stormwall!
Two Molten Metals (12 damage)
4 boosted damage shots from the two slags (32 damage)
That's 44 damage from those three models against a Stormwall. That's not too shabby.
The problem I see with this guy is keeping him alive. If you run a slag, you'll want to spend all his Fury (Boost hit, Buy, Boost hit). That doesn't leave Horgol a transfer target. If you run him double Slag, while cute, it is 13 points--which is problematic.
I've built a few lists with eGrim and him running a Slag and it would be ok. It fits for my eGrim, as he's my Cryx drop--and most Cryx casters don't enjoy seeing a Slag. Of course, he loses Mage Sight when eGrim isn't running him--but them's the breaks. He's ok but I don't really see him making most lists.
I am pretty sure it has been corrected/clarified that Hogol gives a 1 point discount on his critters too, though I don't have a hard source to reference. His little beast star is going to be hell on wheels against jacks in either case.
Wehrkind wrote: His little beast star is going to be hell on wheels against jacks in either case.
Yeah, that was my thought, though when I went to have a little look on the Trollblood PP forum, they were flipping out about him being way too cornercase. Ah well, I'm pretty sure he'll have a place in a few different builds, especially with a fair few colossals around these days.
AduroT wrote: Troll arms are absorbing more and more of the mass from their legs as time goes on.
Troll arm gigantism affects nearly 99.999999999999999999999999999% of all trolls. With your contribution we can make even more depressing commercials about this. *in the arms of an angel. something something something*
Yeah, those hands are gargantuan big... But dammit, he looks amazing
Rules wise, it seems he's looted a Bombard cannon - Khador don't think much of it, but considering this guy probably has RAT 6, and trolls have access to several attack buffs and can have Snipe in any list... I think it'll find a nice home.
malfred wrote: Rumored to be Gunnbjorn's character warbeast.
I could see that, he looks like Gunjborn became a Troll sans hat.
What's funny, is when his model parts were first spoiled--the showed that hand next to a regular miniature and everyone was saying "It has to be a new Gargant!" because of the size. In true Troll let down fashion though, nope..it's just a character beast with ridiculous hands
Yeah, but Trolls have always had this "Ape like" stature to them, where you can see them going at full pelt on all fours, like a Gorilla.
Though this guy looks like he really needs to give leg day a go, the ratio of his limbs doesn't look *too* off compared to other Troll models. We're not quite in Growler physiology yet, but this guy certain has some in his blood.
You know looking at him again, he looks very "Behemothish". Same bombard cannon, looks like AP fists and the little guy will probably grant virtuoso (ala sub cortex). If so, I could see him in my eGrim list--as the main problem I have with eGrim is taking advantage of his feat while still having a beater.
AgeOfEgos wrote: You know looking at him again, he looks very "Behemothish". Same bombard cannon, looks like AP fists and the little guy will probably grant virtuoso (ala sub cortex). If so, I could see him in my eGrim list--as the main problem I have with eGrim is taking advantage of his feat while still having a beater.
Looks like a standard Destroyer Bombard to me. Big B's aren't as fat. Not sure about the AP. He looks like he has some Bombard ammo on his right fist, but nothing to indicate how he would get it, unless that's his Animus.
RiTides wrote: Are you being sarcastic, because huge features are being used in tons of races?
I don't see any huge hands or heads in any release other than Trollbloods...
Then you're not looking hard enough . I'll spoiler out my reply as it's pic-heavy:
Spoiler:
A quick glance at the Circle warbeasts page yields:
Trolls are definitely the worst offenders, but the "oversized" design aesthetic is in many, many lines. Two quick samples from other races:
It's very common with PP. It's by no means in every race, but it's in lots of them, particularly in Hordes. In Warmachine, you just substitute giant shoulder pads for giant hands for many races:
It's part of their look, and I get that. I'm just saying, a legitimate criticism of when it goes too far is... well, legitimate
Outfitted with a crudely rigged bombard salvaged from a Khadoran Destroyer, Dozer is an impossible fusion of nature’s fury and mechanical destruction. From his perch atop Dozer, Smigg operates the wildly inaccurate bombard with surprising effectiveness and is revered as an ace by other pygs. So spectacular are their battlefield rampages that other blitzers are inspired by their example and strive to make every attack count.
So it sounds like he gives a buff to Blitzers. My impression is that those see very little use currently, so my question to Troll players is: what kind of buff would he have to provide to make Blitzers viable?
Oryza Sativa wrote: So it sounds like he gives a buff to Blitzers. My impression is that those see very little use currently, so my question to Troll players is: what kind of buff would he have to provide to make Blitzers viable?
A simple plus one shot and RAT buff would do plenty.
i.e. the metals that got replaced.
)
Thanks 
