wow that Glacier King model is really impressive..auto purchase. It's nice that the pose is much more open as opposed to the crouched pose of the mountain king!
Glacier King is a must buy for me, too!!!
i never liked the Whelps coming out of the Mountain King...
so happy this guy lost that feature...
he will look great next to Borka on his polar bear...
jah-joshua wrote: Glacier King is a must buy for me, too!!!
...
he will look great next to Borka on his polar bear...
Yeah I still have to pick up that borka model myself...the shame I think you might be right linking them up as it opens up a nice possibility for a winter themed force
The new Nyss look miles better than the old (might expand my tiny amount of Legion), I love the Glacier King and Doomy3 (also seriously considering trolls atm) and Ace looks a lot better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the Ferox are just the old ones repackaged.
ImAGeek wrote: The new Nyss look miles better than the old (might expand my tiny amount of Legion), I love the Glacier King and Doomy3 (also seriously considering trolls arm) and Ace looks a lot better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the Ferox are just the old ones repackaged.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plastic or resin/metal cavalry would be a great thing, especially if they fixed the somewhat silly looking Ferox. Bad enough that they don't do much in game without looking so bad.
ImAGeek wrote: The new Nyss look miles better than the old (might expand my tiny amount of Legion), I love the Glacier King and Doomy3 (also seriously considering trolls arm) and Ace looks a lot better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the Ferox are just the old ones repackaged.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plastic or resin/metal cavalry would be a great thing, especially if they fixed the somewhat silly looking Ferox. Bad enough that they don't do much in game without looking so bad.
The full unit cav repacks ARE resin/metal hybrids.
ImAGeek wrote: The new Nyss look miles better than the old (might expand my tiny amount of Legion), I love the Glacier King and Doomy3 (also seriously considering trolls arm) and Ace looks a lot better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the Ferox are just the old ones repackaged.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plastic or resin/metal cavalry would be a great thing, especially if they fixed the somewhat silly looking Ferox. Bad enough that they don't do much in game without looking so bad.
The full unit cav repacks ARE resin/metal hybrids.
Yeah. But they do look silly, I'd have loved a resculpt of them.
I haven't seen them confirmed to be hard plastic. I hope it's true and I'm not saying I disbelieve you but I've not seen it officially stated, I've only seen you say so, and the only thing I've actually seen officially stated was someone from PP posted on the official forum a while ago that they arent double kits, so I'm not getting my hopes up
Marlov wrote: Rockin'. Glacier King for me too! That looks pretty badass.
The Dire Troll Mauler coming out soon is pretty cool, too. If the rules are good, that will get added for me.
The Dire Troll Mauler is just an extreme version of the normal dire troll Mauler. It's just a bigger, more ott sculpt with the same rules. They've done it for the Carnivean, Titan Gladiator, Warpwolf Stalker and a couple of Khador jacks too. They were only available from the PP website before but now they're releasing them properly.
ImAGeek wrote: The new Nyss look miles better than the old (might expand my tiny amount of Legion), I love the Glacier King and Doomy3 (also seriously considering trolls arm) and Ace looks a lot better than I was expecting. Unfortunately the Ferox are just the old ones repackaged.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plastic or resin/metal cavalry would be a great thing, especially if they fixed the somewhat silly looking Ferox. Bad enough that they don't do much in game without looking so bad.
The full unit cav repacks ARE resin/metal hybrids.
Wow, seriously? Resin mounts and metal men on top? That's pretty sweet! Did they redo the Tharn Wolf Riders like that yet?
Hoarluk Doomshaper; Dire Prophet and Ace are up on the main page now (I know we've seen them already... But these pictures have the official background now!?):
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Interesting to note that both kits are going to be made with both resin & metal.
Neither one seems that large (both kits sitting on 40mm bases), so it seems surprising to see resin in both.
Well Doomshaper is two models so making it a hybrid makes it a bit cheaper since that would've been a lot of metal. As for Ace, I think most character Jacks are hybrid anymore. Moros is a hybrid kit and it's a light character. It's lighter and a bit cheaper that way.
for the best possible summary of the changes. Basically, eHaley, eDenegrah and Gorman have been nerfed to an extent, the Anamantarix, Mountain King and Archangel have been buffed a bit, but all very deserved changes.
Free rules is awesome but it wasn't long ago I bought both the rulebooks... (That said I got both of them for less than a 40k codex is so I'm not bothered at all).
And that errata... Those are some pretty big changes. They're things people have been wanting for a long time though. Although there's still people complaining about them on the official forum.
There's always the hardcore types that see any broken or imbalanced rules combo as perfectly fine. Good to see PP has stopped listening to that sounding box and starting swinging the game back from the brink of Mk1 redux.
This is especially important for the future of the game, and for the Jack to Infantry/Solo balance. As they keep expanding the game, as they must do, all these abilities will just keep adding and comboing on each other, so if they don't start fixing them everything collapses under its own weight.
Releasing the rules for free online is another step towards dealing with the problem, as it's easier to justify more sweeping changes when the rules are free online.
HoverBoy wrote: A cursory examination of the shake effects section of prime points to "no".
I guess that kind of makes sense. If some of the errata read: "Remove the second sentence", or "Replace the fourth sentence with..." it would get confusing if someone didn't realize that the errata document only applied to the hard copies.
Except it would say "remove the sentence ..." and refer to a sentence already gone. Or say "replace with ..." and refer to a sentence already in the rulebook.
So you'd be able to tell. It would have been better IMO to add the errata in - I mean, I kinda figured the point of having free rulebooks was to have a living rulebook, and the point of those is to update the rules as you go?
New Blighted Nyss Swordsmen/Archers up on the main page, much better than the current ones. They're still kinda ugly but more in a meant to be ugly way, than a bad model ugly way.
Plus the Glacier King is up. Fantastic model in my opinion.
50$ for 10 plastic models is still a bit steep, but if they are of better quality than the hateful Cyriss plastics were, it isn't too bad a deal. Not like you need 3 boxes to make a unit or something.
Also, MUCH less ugly. Good job PP. Hopefully the Skorne can be touched up similarly.
$50 for 10 plastic models is a bit steep as a baseline, but looking at these I think they are well worth it. Something I like about PP kits is that though they are a series of mono-poses they take advantage of that to make a great combination of poses that enhances the feel of the unit to match their fluff and tabletop role. The fact that these guys simply look good to start with helps the matter as well. Altogether, if I bought this kit I would feel like I got my money's worth (I probably won't get it because I don't play Everblight, but the sentiment is there).
Wehrkind wrote: 50$ for 10 plastic models is still a bit steep, but if they are of better quality than the hateful Cyriss plastics were, it isn't too bad a deal. Not like you need 3 boxes to make a unit or something.
Also, MUCH less ugly. Good job PP. Hopefully the Skorne can be touched up similarly.
The Skorne have been redone in plastic already:
Spoiler:
Like the Nyss, they look ugly still, but as if they're deliberately so. Much better than the metals imo.
I still won't pay $5/PVC grunt. Won't pay it for PP, won't pay it for Soda Pop. Maybe one day there'll be such epic PVC that'll change my mind, but that day hasn't come.
Man, Corvus Belli and Mierce really spoiled other minis for me...I love the game but rarely is there a model that might even hold a candle to what gw is pulling off lately :/
In a way, they could almost just offer a replacement head blister. The metal bodies are not terrible (at least that I have noticed) but the heads are just poo. Put out a 5-10$ head blister with 10-12 replacements, and bam, people can upgrade their mens without replacing the whole unit.
Hell, alternate head/helmet blisters would be really nice just to convert and make your armies a little more unique. Sort of surprised they don't do that (even if it was just a matter offering an official marketplace for outsourced versions, like Valve did with Hats for Team Fortress.)
tommse wrote: Man, Corvus Belli and Mierce really spoiled other minis for me...I love the game but rarely is there a model that might even hold a candle to what gw is pulling off lately :/
A matter of opinion to be sure, but I'd say PP does well more than just hold a candle to GW's releases. While I would say GW wins the value comparison with bloodreavers vs nyss its notable that bloodreavers are one of their best kits in terms of value vs number and quality of models, while I'd say PP has the upper hand when comparing blood warriors vs nyss. While GW troop models are almost exclusively freeform in terms of pose, the poses available are rarely as dynamic or distinct as those that PP models have. On an individual scale its one thing, but when looking at a whole unit on the board the PP posing stands out much more than GW, something I prefer personally. GW wins sculpting quality, but again, not all of that is seen when gaming, and GW has more questionable designs than PP by my reckoning. Ultimately it comes down to personal choice in terms of aesthetic, but to say that PP is so far behind GW does a disservice to the former. The other two companies mentioned... yeah their models do look really nice.
PP units are much inferior to GW ones as far as table presentation / presence, imo - dynamic sculpts hurt when you're duplicating them so much. My $75, 20-man bog trog shamblers unit has an absolutely shameful only 3 unique sculpts . So, something like 7 duplicates each... in one unit...
I still love the unit (it's one of the few I use the official models for) but I have no idea what PP was thinking there!
Yeah, PP occasionally puts out a killer unit, but by and large, they don't hold a candle to GW from a technical perspective (i.e. tastes aside). I consider them by far the weakest miniature line of any of the big names, even before their PVC abominations.
It was kind of charming when they were a tiny company. Now I consider it just laziness.
Is there a reason to have a lot of repeat metal sculpts, by the way? My impression is that molding for casting metal miniatures is not nearly as expensive as plastic, so the number of repeats is a little surprising in those cases. Unless I'm missing something?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, PP occasionally puts out a killer unit, but by and large, they don't hold a candle to GW from a technical perspective (i.e. tastes aside). I consider them by far the weakest miniature line of any of the big names, even before their PVC abominations.
It was kind of charming when they were a tiny company. Now I consider it just laziness.
I suppose that's where my disagreement lies, I feel like tastes aside PP is not as good technically as GW but aren't vastly inferior either. This isn't to forgive a mere 3 unique sculpts on a 20 man unit, but it's not like GW hasn't produced some sub-par and abominable kits themselves.
RiTides wrote: Is there a reason to have a lot of repeat metal sculpts, by the way? My impression is that molding for casting metal miniatures is not nearly as expensive as plastic, so the number of repeats is a little surprising in those cases. Unless I'm missing something?
there's also the very strong WYSIWG aspect of PP gaming culture,
In the glory days of GW the did churn out a huge number of resculpts but a lot of them were weapon or armour changes (or head swaps which I would work ok for non-helmeted PP stuff)
there's a limit to what you can do with just poses
plus logistically its a lot easier to keep 3 sculpts in stock and mix them up to make packs than 20,
I just don't understand (and that's why I'm asking if I'm missing something) how something everyone can agree on (for instance, the 3 unique sculpts in a 20-man unit, or the Convergence plastics) just gets repeated over and over by PP. I think GW rightfully catches a lot of criticism for not listening to customers... but while PP seems to listen regarding rules (at least somewhat), on their modeling front they really have remained subpar in areas that are easy to improve.
On the plastic, I heard it rumored they were stuck in a contract, that they are now out of... but on duplicate sculpts, it just baffles me that they continue to do this. Shamblers are a very recent release (maybe a year or so?) and they've taken their duplicate sculpt folly and just tripled down on it. It's baffling!
I guess I should ping my friends who are press gangers (and who are great guys), but it seems like press gangers have no real say or influence on these things, either... how can it get through to PP, and how has it not done so by now?
Edit: Ninja'ed, but I'm still wondering about this... WYSIWYG doesn't mean you need so many duplicate poses . I got around this a little bit by modeling the minis facing different ways on bases with clearly marked front arcs, so that adds a little bit of variety... but it's just a bit frustrating to have them not respond on some things that are so obvious (and for $75 a box, they really could have sculpted a 4th or 5th shambler, resulting in "only" 4 duplicates of each).
NinthMusketeer wrote: it's not like GW hasn't produced some sub-par and abominable kits themselves.
Oh, yeah, I don't consider GW anywhere near the best in the industry. I'd break things down into...
tier 1: gorgeous resins (kingdom death, arena rex, specialty lines)
2: very strong and realistic (malifaux (for the most part), infinity, other miniatures-emphasis stuff
3: nice, maybe heroic scale stuff (gw, PP's characters
3.5: still fine, the highest end board game stuff like x-wing or some of the above average 3rd party stuff
4: stuff like reaper and most PVC, incl. PP.
5: okay board game stuff, most pre-painteds
(I think PP does generally put nice emphasis in characters, but the rest of their line feels lazy)
RiTides wrote: I just don't understand (and that's why I'm asking if I'm missing something) how something everyone can agree on (for instance, the 3 unique sculpts in a 20-man unit, or the Convergence plastics) just gets repeated over and over by PP. I think GW rightfully catches a lot of criticism for not listening to customers... but while PP seems to listen regarding rules (at least somewhat), on their modeling front they really have remained subpar in areas that are easy to improve.
On the plastic, I heard it rumored they were stuck in a contract, that they are now out of... but on duplicate sculpts, it just baffles me that they continue to do this. Shamblers are a very recent release (maybe a year or so?) and they've taken their duplicate sculpt folly and just tripled down on it. It's baffling =/
I guess I should ping my friends who are press gangers (and who are great guys), but it seems like press gangers have no real say or influence on these things, either... how can it get through to PP, and how has it not done so by now?
There's a real lack of people wanting to make PP armies beautiful compared to a lot of other games I play, and I think the company's approach to making their minis has played a bit part in this... and in the end that hurts adoption of the game.
Part of why I don't like PP much- I feel they've heavily emphasized competition over all the creative stuff.
I'm bothered by the repeat sculpts too - especially as they don't need to resculpt 7 new models. I'm fine using the same legs/bodies/etc - it'd just be nice to have a few swappable heads or weapon arms per kit.
It shouldn't be that much extra sculpting really. Take existing head, change the mouth position a little, add a mustache or something - boom, new head.
RiTides wrote: PP units are much inferior to GW ones as far as table presentation / presence, imo - dynamic sculpts hurt when you're duplicating them so much.
I find this very true as well. if I have a 20 character unit, and only 3 different sculpts (as you mentioned), if those three sculpts as flailing their arms and leaping in the air all spread eagle, it just gets annoying, and looks silly. One or two figures in a unit doing that stuff is kind of 'fun', but I prefer my units to be a bit more 'hunkered down' (Is that an legitimate term? I used it all the time, so I hope so), or in an otherwise 'prepared' state. Characters are the ones who are supposed to have... character. Flailing, Jumping, taunting, etc, let them get crazy, everyone else just STAY IN FORMATION!
A great example of this, is the chaos warriors box set vs the chaos marauders boxed set (or whatever the heck they're called now in Age of Trademark). The warriors had a very 'contained' pose. Different weapons, shields and helmets. All the weapons sat in their hands in a way that they all fit together in a ranked up unit well, but still looked very imposing. The marauders had plenty of options too, heads, shields, weapons. But their arms were made so they looked like they were all screaming lunatics (which, I'm sure you could argue they probably ARE, but, that's not my point), and their weapons ,and shields stuck out in a way that they were much harder to transport and move around the table than the warriors.
I really dig both Warmachine, and Hordes, and I can't say I've been too into much else PP has done, but I think some of their sculpts have become outdated. Hopefully they will continue to 'update' some of the worse units, but in my opinion, keeping the rules good right now, is VERY important. With GW's two big games suffering from bad rule sets, it's really time for these other companies to 'step up' and gain ground on them.
The crazy thing too is that it's not all rank and file, where you'll need 20- 100 of them.
Most units tend to cap out at 10 figures, and if they'd just toss a few extra parts in we'd all be golden.
Didn't the newer Trollkin releases have a few optional parts? I keep thinking the Scattergunners and Highwaymen had stuff like ammo pouches that were optional.
Or maybe I just didn't know where to glue them.
I think a lot of the character models are just as dynamic as some of the other big minis companies out there though, especially the newer releases.
I would love to see more of what PP did with Goreshade- take a flat boring model and turn it into something far more impressive.
NinthMusketeer wrote: it's not like GW hasn't produced some sub-par and abominable kits themselves.
Oh, yeah, I don't consider GW anywhere near the best in the industry. I'd break things down into...
tier 1: gorgeous resins (kingdom death, arena rex, specialty lines)
2: very strong and realistic (malifaux (for the most part), infinity, other miniatures-emphasis stuff
3: nice, maybe heroic scale stuff (gw, PP's characters
3.5: still fine, the highest end board game stuff like x-wing or some of the above average 3rd party stuff
4: stuff like reaper and most PVC, incl. PP.
5: okay board game stuff, most pre-painteds
(I think PP does generally put nice emphasis in characters, but the rest of their line feels lazy)
Ah, I think I understand where you are coming from now, and I see your point.
On the topic of repeat sculpts, I feel like 3 generic + unit leader is good for a 10-man (provided they are good poses), but a 20-man should at least be 6 generic + leader or have some basic posing/part swap options. As others have raised, if PP produced some alternate gear/accessory packs with different themes ("Iron Kingdom soldier accessories" "alternate Skorne heads" "Elven cloaks" etc.) they would sell very well.
NinthMusketeer wrote: As others have raised, if PP produced some alternate gear/accessory packs with different themes ("Iron Kingdom soldier accessories" "alternate Skorne heads" "Elven cloaks" etc.) they would sell very well.
You blew my mind. I never even thought of something so simple!
A few bits and bobs for every faction... man. That'd be great. I'd have an excuse to buy something other than solos and casters!
NinthMusketeer wrote: As others have raised, if PP produced some alternate gear/accessory packs with different themes ("Iron Kingdom soldier accessories" "alternate Skorne heads" "Elven cloaks" etc.) they would sell very well.
You blew my mind. I never even thought of something so simple!
A few bits and bobs for every faction... man. That'd be great. I'd have an excuse to buy something other than solos and casters!
Sorry . I agree of course that they're totally distinct. The timing does make it seem like AoS could have played a part, though. Neither are really truly free though, if you play a lot you likely have paid for books / apps / etc. Which is no problem, and having more of the basics be free is great for adoption.
PP has often made social moves in response to things GW does, or were their previous sales on the faction starters that happened at the same times as GW's yearly price increases just a coincidence?
PP hates to spend any more money than they have to. This explains some of the lacking quality in some areas, like multiple sculpts and not having an updated website that can handle more than 10,000 people viewing an image at a time.
Anyway, I think the free rules are more of a reaction to the gaming community at large's changes. Many things are migrating to free rules, partly in reaction to the idea that pirating happens and not much you can do about it. You can still charge for a physical copy which many people will prefer to have instead of printing one out or having a tablet.
Plus when playing WMH you rarely reference the rulebook anyway. I haven't had to open my rulebook in well over a year, honestly I have no idea where it is
Plus its only the main rules they are making free. You still either have to buy the physical models or decks on Warroom to get the model cards. Either way, PP still gets your money.
Grey Templar wrote: PP hates to spend any more money than they have to. This explains some of the lacking quality in some areas, like multiple sculpts and not having an updated website that can handle more than 10,000 people viewing an image at a time.
Anyway, I think the free rules are more of a reaction to the gaming community at large's changes. Many things are migrating to free rules, partly in reaction to the idea that pirating happens and not much you can do about it. You can still charge for a physical copy which many people will prefer to have instead of printing one out or having a tablet.
Plus when playing WMH you rarely reference the rulebook anyway. I haven't had to open my rulebook in well over a year, honestly I have no idea where it is
Plus its only the main rules they are making free. You still either have to buy the physical models or decks on Warroom to get the model cards. Either way, PP still gets your money.
They do seem kinda cheap to me too, at times. I mean, Malifaux is able to go ahead and replace their whole line with HIPS plastics somehow. It seems weird that it's taken so long for PP to even dip their toe in it. Plus they have tons of old minis that could use resculpting and a switch to plastic (HIPS or not) and they do very few a year. And yeah - the website could use some work too.
I've noticed they've been hiring a ton this year - though I'm not sure if that means they're rapidly expanding or having a high burnout rate. (They seem to refuse to hire me, regardless, the jerks!)
And I do think the previous year's summer sales were just a coincidence (and they've been replaced by the army boxes now it seems). Plus they weren't really very good deals to begin with.
Well, I must admit I don't get how Wyrd does it. Plastic molds are hideously expensive relative to other types, especially HIPS. How Wyrd stays profitable with their low volume is a little odd.
Grey Templar wrote: Well, I must admit I don't get how Wyrd does it. Plastic molds are hideously expensive relative to other types, especially HIPS. How Wyrd stays profitable with their low volume is a little odd.
Wyrd, Outlaw Miniatures, Kingdom Death, Shieldwolf Miniatures, Warlord Games and many more are putting out decent plastic figs. There are a lot of smaller companies that have moved into the plastic miniatures and are leapfrogging PP in terms of quality. GW is still king of the hill in regards to table top plastic miniatures and instead of trying to match them, PP is sliding further into mediocrity staying with PVC like this. The whole Maelstroms Edge kickstarter showed that the cost for plastic figures has dropped tremendously. GW has pocketed those savings and continue to charge higher and higher prices. PP is doing the same thing, staying with crappy PVC and charging nearly as much as GW.
Grey Templar wrote: PP hates to spend any more money than they have to. This explains some of the lacking quality in some areas, like multiple sculpts and not having an updated website that can handle more than 10,000 people viewing an image at a time.
Anyway, I think the free rules are more of a reaction to the gaming community at large's changes. Many things are migrating to free rules, partly in reaction to the idea that pirating happens and not much you can do about it. You can still charge for a physical copy which many people will prefer to have instead of printing one out or having a tablet.
Plus when playing WMH you rarely reference the rulebook anyway. I haven't had to open my rulebook in well over a year, honestly I have no idea where it is
Plus its only the main rules they are making free. You still either have to buy the physical models or decks on Warroom to get the model cards. Either way, PP still gets your money.
They do seem kinda cheap to me too, at times. I mean, Malifaux is able to go ahead and replace their whole line with HIPS plastics somehow. It seems weird that it's taken so long for PP to even dip their toe in it. Plus they have tons of old minis that could use resculpting and a switch to plastic (HIPS or not) and they do very few a year. And yeah - the website could use some work too.
I've noticed they've been hiring a ton this year - though I'm not sure if that means they're rapidly expanding or having a high burnout rate. (They seem to refuse to hire me, regardless, the jerks!)
And I do think the previous year's summer sales were just a coincidence (and they've been replaced by the army boxes now it seems). Plus they weren't really very good deals to begin with.
They tend to have a fairly high turnover rate on their employees. I've heard some grapevine stuff that they can be a difficult company to work for.
They tend to have a fairly high turnover rate on their employees. I've heard some grapevine stuff that they can be a difficult company to work for.
The ex-PP employees I talked to said Yeary subscribes to the advance or fire philosophy in business. If someone doesn't advance into a new position within two year, fire them. Personally I think that is the most bone-headed philosophy a company can have. When ever I hear a manager talk about it, I ask them if they change companies if they haven't advanced within two year. Shockingly, they don't.
...well it does tend to mean you fire people before they get confident enough in their position to ask for a raise, or more holiday, or a desk by the window
(but yes it is a dumb philosophy that means you spend time and money recruiting and training that you don't have to do)
If true - that's a ridiculous policy to have in place.
Some people might just really love their current job, or don't want the responsibilities of moving up (I wouldn't want to have to manage people for instance). It'd be foolish to get rid of them if they're good at what they do.
Schmapdi wrote: If true - that's a ridiculous policy to have in place.
Some people might just really love their current job, or don't want the responsibilities of moving up (I wouldn't want to have to manage people for instance). It'd be foolish to get rid of them if they're good at what they do.
Indeed it is typical senior management nonsense - that they of course are exempt from because.."reasons" Loyalty is often undervalued by such "people"
Schmapdi wrote: If true - that's a ridiculous policy to have in place.
Some people might just really love their current job, or don't want the responsibilities of moving up (I wouldn't want to have to manage people for instance). It'd be foolish to get rid of them if they're good at what they do.
Indeed it is typical senior management nonsense - that they of course are exempt from because.."reasons" Loyalty is often undervalued by such "people"
i don't believe it for a second...
many of the same guys have been doing the same job for a decade at PP...
the illustrators, story writers, sculptors, rules writers, painters, are all old hands still doing the same job...
i'm sure you don't get rid of your technical experts, like mold makers and casters, just because they have not moved up to warehouse managers, you keep all your technical skill...
in my experience working for Matt and Sherry, i never felt that anything other than my own slacking would get me cut loose...
they both seem to care about their employees...
Matt can seem like a cold guy, but Sherry has always been lovely...
it could just be that a few old employees who didn't move up left, and have a different take on things because they couldn't get along with the boss...
i would take the "two year rule" with a whole shaker of salt...
They tend to have a fairly high turnover rate on their employees. I've heard some grapevine stuff that they can be a difficult company to work for.
The ex-PP employees I talked to said Yeary subscribes to the advance or fire philosophy in business. If someone doesn't advance into a new position within two year, fire them. Personally I think that is the most bone-headed philosophy a company can have. When ever I hear a manager talk about it, I ask them if they change companies if they haven't advanced within two year. Shockingly, they don't.
This is only true about certain jobs - specifically, high turn over jobs. My experience is public accounting - in the public accounting industry, you move up or out. That is because, the turn over is so high you're expected to take the next spot. If you do not progress, they can find another fresh face new hire from a local University who is willing to jump right in and the cost to train/retrain someone is the same price. Although, if working 70 hours a week, lots of travel, and getting pinched by both sides (those you manage vs those who manage you) then this job is perfect for you.
Typically in technical positions with low turn over, you'd be expected to maintain your position for several years at a time. Turn over is low, so you're not expected to move up as fast because someone is still in the position. Too many chef's spoil the soup.
What you want is for your staff to grow - expand their understanding of the business/their role. Let them take on additional responsibilities, release responsibilities they have mastered and play more of a back up role. People move up in their careers for all sorts of reasons - connections, a special project, mastery of their day-to-day work load, new certifications, new degrees, seniority, work/life balance, work ethic, etc.
This is only true about certain jobs - specifically, high turn over jobs. My experience is public accounting - in the public accounting industry, you move up or out. That is because, the turn over is so high you're expected to take the next spot. If you do not progress, they can find another fresh face new hire from a local University who is willing to jump right in and the cost to train/retrain someone is the same price. Although, if working 70 hours a week, lots of travel, and getting pinched by both sides (those you manage vs those who manage you) then this job is perfect for you.
Typically in technical positions with low turn over, you'd be expected to maintain your position for several years at a time. Turn over is low, so you're not expected to move up as fast because someone is still in the position. Too many chef's spoil the soup.
What you want is for your staff to grow - expand their understanding of the business/their role. Let them take on additional responsibilities, release responsibilities they have mastered and play more of a back up role. People move up in their careers for all sorts of reasons - connections, a special project, mastery of their day-to-day work load, new certifications, new degrees, seniority, work/life balance, work ethic, etc.
That's been my experience with people management.
Except I have seen people try to apply it to technical positions. Tying continued employment to advancement can easily cause a Peter Principle incident to happen. Then your have hurt the company double fold by removing a productive employee from one position and putting him into an unproductive position. Even in accounting there is tribal knowledge that can be lost as people are forced out just because they weren't the ones to get the right promotion or it can hinder progress because you don't want to create employees that are too valuable. A friend who is a public accountant was complaining because he was not being allowed to automate certain data input streams because they didn't want him being the only person with knowledge of how it works. They didn't want an indispensable employee.
As for long term PP employees, aren't a lot of the sculptors and artist on contract? And yes Yeary does apply it to technical positions there. One ex-employee mentioned how Yeary fire two of the three casters. The newest one was there long enough he could train the replacements. Problem is he quit a month later. This was several years ago when PP started having massive issues keeping stock and the ex-employee said that was one of the reason why.
@silent25: casters was a bad example on my part, as it is not nearly as technical a position as the mold cutter...
my point was more that the artists, writers, sculptors and painters, while not being exactly indispensable, don't seem to have to worry about keeping their jobs...
Actually, in that vein, I just noticed that Brennos is 55$ on PPs web store. Is there something going on with him that makes him that pricey? He doesn't look enormous, enough so to be half again as expensive as Megalith say. Is he that big? I have never seen him in person.
Wehrkind wrote: Actually, in that vein, I just noticed that Brennos is 55$ on PPs web store. Is there something going on with him that makes him that pricey? He doesn't look enormous, enough so to be half again as expensive as Megalith say. Is he that big? I have never seen him in person.
He does seem pretty big but I can't find a comparison with another model to confirm. I think it's just a case of Megalith being old, if he came out now he'd be about the same price as Brennos.
Megalith is also really skinny. But yeah, they don't really do price increases so some older models can have comparatively cheap prices grandfathered in.
Makes sense. I was just a bit surprised at that 150% price increase, although I suppose Ghetto costs about that much if you count a full priced warpwolf kit as part of his cost.
When comparing to some other companies, PP pricing can be odd. But then you realize its based on the model itself and not its place in the game.
A unit of single piece miniatures is way cheaper than a unit of multi-part models. Idrian Skirmishers are 1 piece models: $44 for a unit of 10. Kossite Woodsmen: 2-3 piece models(IIRC) $55 for a unit of 10.
Grey Templar wrote: But then you realize its based on the model itself and not its place in the game.
...Except the prices they charge for PVC is still absurd. I'd agree that most metal stuff follows a coherent curve, but PVC is priced like it's made out of HIPS, or, well, something better than nice board game plastic.
It's going to be 2 books old by the time it finally comes out!
And I'm surprised the Glacier King is in line for production, but the Skorne Hydra is not. We saw video footage of it all painted up when the Glacier King was just an image in a computer...
Yeah - Menoth always has the goofiest looking jacks. They'd probably be my favorite faction otherwise - as they have some of the coolest looking infantry/warcasters.
Man, the heads on Menoth jacks can't creep any lower without ending up in their own crotch. Like them Deathwolves and love the dynamic pose on Barathrum.
It's going to be 2 books old by the time it finally comes out!
And I'm surprised the Glacier King is in line for production, but the Skorne Hydra is not. We saw video footage of it all painted up when the Glacier King was just an image in a computer...
Thats an interesting point.
Also, I was just thinking to myself about how GW requires that every unit with a set of rules be accompanied by a model out of fear that a 3rd party company will steal their IP or whatever, yet PP doesn't have that concern and no third party market exists for conversion bits etc. Its amazing what happens when you have a tight set of rules supported by an organized play format that requires official models, no?
PP isn't worried partly because they are a little more relaxed than GW,
but mainly because their meta is very much 'you must use the official mini with no conversions or messing around so people can see at a glance what it is'
(I realise people do use alternated and conversions in friendly games, but it's a lot less common than with most other systems)
so there is not a big enough market for 'look-y like-y' companies to bother making stuff to try and cover the missing models
PP releases always have an official model. Even if they're not out
by book release or two book releases later (and only because of
production issues, not for the lack of trying. Seriously, they WANT
to sell Grolars, but I like to think they want you to buy what they
produce rather than fail at making them). They don't play the will
they/won't they game.
Is that official GW policy now, chaosomega? I haven't been paying attention.
Yeah, PP isn't concerned because they actively foster community and events, and that combined with the nature of the game leads people to use the official models much more.
Of course, I'm doing a counts-as force like always but labeling all my bases and making sure I have approval before using it (the local press gangers are fine with it, even for events, but I totally understand that there are venues I won't be able to use it in, and I'm OK with that). Never hurts, though . I've found at the local level folks are awesome about it, and abide by "rule of cool + clarity" as per usual in wargaming!
Red_Zeke wrote: Man, the heads on Menoth jacks can't creep any lower without ending up in their own crotch. Like them Deathwolves and love the dynamic pose on Barathrum.
I missed this earlier, but man, agreed on all counts! I do really like the Deathwolves and that Cryx jack.
but mainly because their meta is very much 'you must use the official mini with no conversions or messing around so people can see at a glance what it is'
(I realise people do use alternated and conversions in friendly games, but it's a lot less common than with most other systems)
so there is not a big enough market for 'look-y like-y' companies to bother making stuff to try and cover the missing models
That's not actually the rule. You're perfectly fine converting your models, as long as you maintain the same weapon loadout and a reasonable observer can identify what it is.
My Thyron was missing one of his shoulder fins. The thing was supposed to be on a sprue with the dagger things that go on his shoulders. Had the dagger, no fin or sprue in sight.
My worry is, it's a whole box of models. They pack the all in ones by literally shoving the boxes in the big box... This was missing which is a big omission but I don't know how their packing works... Didn't have a slip in like normal products either
but mainly because their meta is very much 'you must use the official mini with no conversions or messing around so people can see at a glance what it is'
(I realise people do use alternated and conversions in friendly games, but it's a lot less common than with most other systems)
so there is not a big enough market for 'look-y like-y' companies to bother making stuff to try and cover the missing models
Actually they updated their conversion policy earlier this year. Very similar to GW's old conversion policy of must be 51% PP parts and, as Laughingman pointed out, weapons must be representative of what their are armed with. But don't show up with any heavy GW bit conversions at official PP staff attended tournaments, they get very strict on their conversion policy in that case.
Though after attending cons with PP tournaments, main reason I see why there isn't a third party bits market like there was for GW, most PP tournament players don't care about painting or modeling. Out of a 32 man tournament, maybe a 1/4 - 1/3 was painted and only a couple to good quality. Rest was just primed or worse, bare metal.
but mainly because their meta is very much 'you must use the official mini with no conversions or messing around so people can see at a glance what it is'
(I realise people do use alternated and conversions in friendly games, but it's a lot less common than with most other systems)
so there is not a big enough market for 'look-y like-y' companies to bother making stuff to try and cover the missing models
How is that more relaxed than GW? How is 'you must use the official mini with no conversions is relaxed'? In my opinion that is far more stringent because you don't have the option to really make it yours. GW rules on models are far more relaxed - you can choose the load out, choose weapon options on your characters, etc. No two people have to have the same load out on their models. PP has prevented third parties from making bits because of their rules on conversions.
What PP has is a good rule system. What GW has are beautiful customizable models models. But, there are exceptions to both rules. I play each game for different reasons and get enjoyment from both.
Here are some exceptions to the conversion rule - these belong to dakka user HSHP. He is one of the organizers for the Crucible in Orlando, FL.
Converting policy or not, PP sculpt their models so awkvardly, hugging their weapons or having heavy cloaks all about their arms so basicly no converting can be done about it.
This of course result in third party alternatives wont bother with it, and players of other game sets (like GW players) dont try to buy PP models for "count as" units.
Thimn wrote: They loosened up on the conversion policy.It is has to be 50% now and holding the appropriate type of weapon.
To clarify, it only has to be 50% PP product. Not 50% of the original miniature. It then must still be easily identified as what it is and it must be appropriately armed.
So really its basically the same as 40k conversion policies have been for years.
Minion players are pretty excited about the two farrow light beasts (battle boar and splatter boar). The Blindwalker for gators seems interesting although not super powerful (can't run and function as an arc node, so you could only charge or trample to move forward by 8", and it takes damage every time it channels). If you're a Minion player skip to 17:00 into the video for that section!
Thimn wrote: They loosened up on the conversion policy.It is has to be 50% now and holding the appropriate type of weapon.
To clarify, it only has to be 50% PP product. Not 50% of the original miniature. It then must still be easily identified as what it is and it must be appropriately armed.
So really its basically the same as 40k conversion policies have been for years.
It still has the caveat of no non-PP IP or Trademarks though, which also applies to paint schemes as well as modeling, so still stricter than GW's.
Minion players are pretty excited about the two farrow light beasts (battle boar and splatter boar). The Blindwalker for gators seems interesting although not super powerful (can't run and function as an arc node, so you could only charge or trample to move forward by 8", and it takes damage every time it channels). If you're a Minion player skip to 17:00 into the video for that section!
Minions made out like bandits. Trolls just got a bunch of amazing stuff too.
The Hydra is probably the best Gargantuan now. Its just that little bit better than the Mammoth(although you'll still see the Mammoth as its got a longer ranged gun). It does 4 more damage on average, has crazy regeneration capabilities(making up for its one less point of arm and 2 less hit boxes), and is a little more versatile.
I feel sad for Circle. They got a real turd of a colossal.
Grey Templar wrote: Note I said 40k conversion policies, not GW conversion policies.
The standard for most 40k tournaments has been that the model must be recognizable, and some have mandated GW parts.
Oh so you mean unofficial policies set down by TOs, because the PP policy only applies to events they organize.
You'll be surprised to learn then that exceptions to it is the norm in independant WMH events, in fact just recently the WTC (world team championship) was played and they allowed recognizable conversions of unreleased models.
That sure brings back memories eh?
ImAGeek wrote: A shame about the Circle gargantuan (if that's true, I'm going entirely by your word )
They gave it mat5. On a model that seems designed to kill infantry. They gave it below average p+s, on weapons with disruption. Its also got a glaringly low amount of health and armor.
It would be ok if it was either 17 points OR was mat6. Its like right on the cusp of being ok.
Grey Templar wrote: Note I said 40k conversion policies, not GW conversion policies.
The standard for most 40k tournaments has been that the model must be recognizable, and some have mandated GW parts.
Oh so you mean unofficial policies set down by TOs, because the PP policy only applies to events they organize.
You'll be surprised to learn then that exceptions to it is the norm in independant WMH events, in fact just recently the WTC (world team championship) was played and they allowed recognizable conversions of unreleased models.
That sure brings back memories eh?
I am aware that most TOs will allow exceptions. And actually PP's policy does apply to any Steamroller event, but they do include a clause where the TO has final call and can override this if he wishes.
I was not aware the WTC allowed unreleased scratchbuilds. Thats cool.
I'd be really surprised - PP has shown no interest in converting Cav to plastic (for some reason) plus they are one of the very few units that still needed to be reboxed to a full unit in a box.
Schmapdi wrote: I'd be really surprised - PP has shown no interest in converting Cav to plastic (for some reason) plus they are one of the very few units that still needed to be reboxed to a full unit in a box.
Oh. Is that all it is? Just a full unit of five? Dang. I was hoping for plastic.
They've been slowly repacking all the min sized unit boxes into full units.
Units with low volume sales are also unlikely to be turned into plastic as well due to plastic molds being more expensive and not lasting as long, so its not worth the expenditure of making plastic molds.
DEF12 on a colossal is pretty powerful as it means MAT6 charges can actually miss, even DEF10 is nice because it means 3's miss, and missed attacks against colossals are crippling. Put Forced Evolution on it and it hits DEF14, which is a level most things are boosting to hit - and again that is a massive damage swing against a colossal where you need those attacks to be doing work. There are also several ARM buffs in the faction, and 12/20 is a pretty respectable statline for something with SPD7 and a good gun. This is also a faction with Stormwall and Druids, aka the best tech you can get for escorting something across the board in the game.
Tbh the only complaint that I think carries any weight in the MAT5. This is generally being considered a Primal tax, because even without any other buffs that lets it hit insanely hard. Circle also have plenty of MAT fixes, Carnage, Carnivore, Wild Aggression, eMorv cutting, eKrueger TKs etc so its not the end of the world.
What I think people are missing is that it has a solid gun, RAT6, Virtuoso and Gunfighter (since its a colossal). With Superconduction (which it has base) its effectively RAT8 up close, and it gets to use it on the charge as well so he has 4 initials. He also gets heaps of work out of his animus, firstly it pushes the POW of his gun up to 16 (so he has a 16, 2 17s and an 18 without buffs), but it also pushes the POW of his eLeaps (which has has on all of his attacks) up to 12, which means they will reliably clear almost any infantry. Most importantly the animus lasts for a round, and he has Plasma Nimbus - which means anything that hits him is taking a POW12 - so most infantry are on a one way trip if they charge him.
What do people think of the bushwacker UA? Camouflage is, well, okay I guess but I have rarely got people trying to shoot my pygs. Slip away seems great though, no more being tied into closed combat! Nice!
Apparently the mortar can move AND shoot at range 14, so this is nice!
What is combined arms though? Does it mean combined melee attack?
DEF12 on a colossal is pretty powerful as it means MAT6 charges can actually miss, even DEF10 is nice because it means 3's miss, and missed attacks against colossals are crippling. Put Forced Evolution on it and it hits DEF14, which is a level most things are boosting to hit - and again that is a massive damage swing against a colossal where you need those attacks to be doing work. There are also several ARM buffs in the faction, and 12/20 is a pretty respectable statline for something with SPD7 and a good gun. This is also a faction with Stormwall and Druids, aka the best tech you can get for escorting something across the board in the game.
Tbh the only complaint that I think carries any weight in the MAT5. This is generally being considered a Primal tax, because even without any other buffs that lets it hit insanely hard. Circle also have plenty of MAT fixes, Carnage, Carnivore, Wild Aggression, eMorv cutting, eKrueger TKs etc so its not the end of the world.
What I think people are missing is that it has a solid gun, RAT6, Virtuoso and Gunfighter (since its a colossal). With Superconduction (which it has base) its effectively RAT8 up close, and it gets to use it on the charge as well so he has 4 initials. He also gets heaps of work out of his animus, firstly it pushes the POW of his gun up to 16 (so he has a 16, 2 17s and an 18 without buffs), but it also pushes the POW of his eLeaps (which has has on all of his attacks) up to 12, which means they will reliably clear almost any infantry. Most importantly the animus lasts for a round, and he has Plasma Nimbus - which means anything that hits him is taking a POW12 - so most infantry are on a one way trip if they charge him.
Nice summation, thank you. I'm glad it's not as dire as my first look. I have aninkling the model is going to be epic, and I'd hate not to gate it because the stats are terrible.
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Combined Arms is a special rule that allows you to re-roll misses when you do a combined ranged attack
Oh that is rad! No more snakes eyes running my 10 pyg combined ranged attack, and now making a bunch of 2/3 pyg combined becomes a LOT more manageable despite the RAT4.
DEF12 on a colossal is pretty powerful as it means MAT6 charges can actually miss, even DEF10 is nice because it means 3's miss, and missed attacks against colossals are crippling. Put Forced Evolution on it and it hits DEF14, which is a level most things are boosting to hit - and again that is a massive damage swing against a colossal where you need those attacks to be doing work. There are also several ARM buffs in the faction, and 12/20 is a pretty respectable statline for something with SPD7 and a good gun. This is also a faction with Stormwall and Druids, aka the best tech you can get for escorting something across the board in the game.
Tbh the only complaint that I think carries any weight in the MAT5. This is generally being considered a Primal tax, because even without any other buffs that lets it hit insanely hard. Circle also have plenty of MAT fixes, Carnage, Carnivore, Wild Aggression, eMorv cutting, eKrueger TKs etc so its not the end of the world.
What I think people are missing is that it has a solid gun, RAT6, Virtuoso and Gunfighter (since its a colossal). With Superconduction (which it has base) its effectively RAT8 up close, and it gets to use it on the charge as well so he has 4 initials. He also gets heaps of work out of his animus, firstly it pushes the POW of his gun up to 16 (so he has a 16, 2 17s and an 18 without buffs), but it also pushes the POW of his eLeaps (which has has on all of his attacks) up to 12, which means they will reliably clear almost any infantry. Most importantly the animus lasts for a round, and he has Plasma Nimbus - which means anything that hits him is taking a POW12 - so most infantry are on a one way trip if they charge him.
How are druids escorting it across the table? Clouds don't block LoS to a Gargantuan. As for mat5 being the Primal tax, thats a BS reason. You should NEVER have to primal a gargantuan to get it to do work, on a 19 point model thats just criminal. I suppose if you are running another mat fixer its ok, but its still a bad thing that PP seems to not have learned from their mistakes("Hey guys, the MK was terrible with mat5!" "Lets make 2 more gargantuans with mat5!" "Yeah!")
If his gun was RoF3 or something where he could spend the game just shooting, or charge, make his initials, and then buy gun shots, he wouldn't be half bad.
Mat5 didn't break the Mountain King, his whole package was lacking. The Colossals were sweet because they were excellent gun platforms and still good at melee when they got close. The Gargantuans lacked that and it's largely what killed them. The new ones have much better guns and it shows.
But it makes me sad that Shrike is metal. I feel like all Warjacks, even tiny ones, should be plastic by now. Was the perfect opportunity to redo the Scavenger too.
.Mikes. wrote: Have we seen any rules for the Night Witch?
Everything is on Warroom.
TL-DR on the Night Witch is she's an average combat solo.
2 P+S10 magic weapons, stealth, good mat. She has Killing Spree(kill 1+ enemy models during her combat action, she may advance 1" and make additional 1 attack) and gives it to Bloodweavers. She can suffer D3 damage to boost attack and damage rolls. Her weapons have Grievous Wounds and heal her D3 every time she kills something living.
So she can kill bunched up infantry and lets bloodweavers kill more too. If your opponent has living stuff you can boost fairly reliably.
Four Initial Attacks with Electro Leap on three of them. Really high speed in a faction with Sprint as an Animus.
Gargantuans can't sprint.
Gargantuans cannot move outside of their activation. Sprint movement is at the end of the activation
Also Stormrapter on Una is funny. 1 point cheaper and with watcher (can't make watcher movement, but can still make the attack)
Wrong. Gargantuans cannot move outside their normal movement, not activation. Which means things like Beat Back, Side-step, Sprint and other non-normal movement advances can't be used.
The Nightwitch is awesome. I'd rather metal for the little jacks than PVC, PVC can be a nightmare to clean. Small metal models are fine anyway, it's big metal models I don't like.
Not sure. It seems like it will be sort of analogous to Kill Team. Every dude might function as a solo. There will also be character units for each faction, which might be usable in normal games.
I love the idea of having nothing but solos and characters, and the oddball basic infantry hanging around with them.
I'm pretty much already doing this with Song of Blades and Heroes, except I tend to use the casters as more generic characters in that game since I like a lot of the sculpts.
I'd be alright with this. My collection already consists of solos or personality units from just about every in game faction.
What's the thing at the bottom right next to the Grolar?
I see the Blightbringer, the new Bog Trog solo, the Gobber chef, Hand of Judgement to the left of the Grolar(?) and the Dhunian Knot. I just cannot recognise that last one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wehrkind wrote: Holy crap, is that actually a Grolar there in the bottom? Like, an actual production piece?
So it is. Never seen the 360 of him so I didn't know he was rocking a big spine down his carapace.
I honestly didn't even know the 360 was out Just remembered he was based on the Seether chassis. I haven't bought anything Warmachine in awhile (backlog is a fether) but I am always impressed at the new stuff they put out.
Did Thundethead need a resculpt either? Seems unnecessary. I do like the Soulless though. If any Menoth Caster needs a resculpt though, it's Epic Kreoss in his power armor.
Barzam wrote: Did Thundethead need a resculpt either? Seems unnecessary. I do like the Soulless though. If any Menoth Caster needs a resculpt though, it's Epic Kreoss in his power armor.
maybe they made the thunderhead simplier to build or something
Cheers for updating it. I pretty much like everything, except I think I prefer the old pSeverius (and I'm not a huge fan of the old one...), and Thunderhead probably wasn't needed per say but I really like the new one and didn't like the old one much.
Wow, trolls got hit with the nerf bat hard - but it's focused on that crazy tier list with all the free points of light beasts, warders (lost weapon master!) and runeshapers (less range on their knockdown effect, And they can't charge and use it anymore).
Bradigus crazy tier also got the nerf.
Splatter boar got a slight buff through clarification... now it's even scarier (and with the few options pigs have, will be a very common sight when released!).
Edit: I hadn't seen Rok, that looks so much better! Thanks for posting it, highlord
Yea, that was a BIG errata. The Woldwarden change is a subtle buff for Baldur and the Wilder in addition to the Warden himself; a lot more ability for random 4" forests to pop up now.
Updated my post above as the nerf to Runeshapers seems to be that they can't use their knockdown effect on the charge anymore (in addition to it being a slightly shorter range). Ouch! Both common troll tier lists got hurt. That along with the Warder nerf means you could see some entirely new troll lists becoming popular.
Good. EE and Runes were entirely too prevalent. With the expansion of options for Trolls in the last year it's exciting to see where the meta goes for them now.
I am a little surprised that they took WM from warders but didn't give them Pow 12 naturally. Or rapid strike at pow 10. At the moment they really do seem to lack a role, being really slow, hard to kill, but very pillow fisted. One of those two bad aspects seems like it should be mitigated.
I can see the idea. The intention was for warders to be very durable(which they are) and for Champs to be hard hitting(which they are).
But the issue was warders also hit almost as hard as champs but were also durable. Which invalidated the champs. They probably should have gained 1-2 pow as you mentioned though as just being pow10 is too much of a nerf.
As a former troll player, I don't think anyone just getting into trolls should make those purchases (although I know you were kind of joking). Instead, I'd start with the following:
Trolls have extremely strong beasts with the right warlock (and there are a few to choose from on that front now) which makes for a great and easy / fun to play list.
I'm not really sure where they should go for infantry now, but Croaks fit right in with the aesthetics of the faction, and so are an interesting option. Mainly, troll players can save some money and avoid buying all the weird units released for them that don't really have a role (of which Warders now join, too). But the beasts and a few of the units (maybe Fennblades?) would be great investments to start.
just started Trollbloods, have not played a single game of Warmachine/Hordes yet. Thankfully did not purchase any units besides Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes unit. The Croaks do sound interesting, what makes them a good option?
Croaks just are murder on high arm/low Def stuff, and pretty good against just about everything. Throw in Pyre troll's also benefiting from the boosted fire damage that Croaks put out there and you have some nice synergy in the ranged attack department.
Sweet, and that is a fantastic unit so no worries there
The Croaks are just really good at shooting and killing stuff, unlike most ranged troll units . I never actually got any use out of any of the ranged troll units I bought.
They don't benefit from in-faction buffs, so where to use them will depend on what you're running. But they're much more in line with trolls than the other ranged unit that was often used when I played them, which was Nyss hunters... which don't fit the theme at all!
Oh, and how could I forget Fire Eaters!? They are bat poo insane with Croaks. ALL THE DICE on fire sprays.
Throw all that together with Calendra and you have a nifty army. Plus, lots of PP players are going to rage quit after EE got nerfed, so this week is a good time to get deals.
Have to say I'm dissapointed with all the whining trollblood players. I've been on ebay, BSS forums and facebook groups all day and have only seen one troll set put up.
.Mikes. wrote: Have to say I'm dissapointed with all the whining trollblood players. I've been on ebay, BSS forums and facebook groups all day and have only seen one troll set put up.
Come on guys, I want some cheap trolls!
I know, right? I have half an eye out as I have wanted to play Calendra out of tier for a long time. Like a blue eMorvhana, right? But sadly, I am not seeing cheap armies for sale :( Hell, I would take a significant percent of retail if they were just pre-cleaned to a good standard
RiTides wrote: I heard the scale might also be a bit different for the board games, highlord?
But yeah, as a minions player I'll certainly be keeping an eye on it
I would think the scale would be the same? Since many of the Undercity sculpt built off of existing WM/H sculpts. I was put off by all the repeat sculpts in UC too. I wish they had kickstarted that and got new sculpts and less repeats.
I was bummed to see on PP's own forum that they're sticking to "industry standard" plastics like they used in Undercity.
Since when in bendy rubber stuff standard?
That's a bit of a damper. Guess we'll have to see what kind of price point they want to put this thing at.
Hell, maybe a stretch goal will be to put the stuff into harder plastic. I'd take their PVC over bendy guys any day, and as a troll player, the amount of work I've already put into those big blue guys... that's saying something.
.Mikes. wrote: Have to say I'm dissapointed with all the whining trollblood players. I've been on ebay, BSS forums and facebook groups all day and have only seen one troll set put up.
Come on guys, I want some cheap trolls!
I know, right? I have half an eye out as I have wanted to play Calendra out of tier for a long time. Like a blue eMorvhana, right? But sadly, I am not seeing cheap armies for sale :( Hell, I would take a significant percent of retail if they were just pre-cleaned to a good standard
*Innocently wanders into the PP Troll forum* You know..... I heard they were thinking of getting rid of one random fell call....
The bendy miniatures are there for the pure boardgame
players who aren't going to foam their minis. Or that's how I
understand it. Your typical plastic miniature breaks when
tossed in a box.
Damn, these are some nice looking minis. I find a lot of the old PP minis very hit and miss, but as of late I really like nearly everything they are putting out.... seems like PP have really stepped up their game... do they have new sculptors in the company? Definitely will be picking up some of these later in the year.
anab0lic wrote: Damn, these are some nice looking minis. I find a lot of the old PP minis very hit and miss, but as of late I really like nearly everything they are putting out.... seems like PP have really stepped up their game... do they have new sculptors in the company? Definitely will be picking up some of these later in the year.
I don't like quite a lot of the older models but the new ones I like pretty much everything... It makes it really difficult for me to pick factions because I don't like whole factions, I like all the new models for every faction -.-
anab0lic wrote: Damn, these are some nice looking minis. I find a lot of the old PP minis very hit and miss, but as of late I really like nearly everything they are putting out.... seems like PP have really stepped up their game... do they have new sculptors in the company? Definitely will be picking up some of these later in the year.
I don't like quite a lot of the older models but the new ones I like pretty much everything... It makes it really difficult for me to pick factions because I don't like whole factions, I like all the new models for every faction -.-
This is a big reason why I've never been able to get into Warma/Hordes. But I will say quite a few of their most recent things are quite good.
anab0lic wrote: Damn, these are some nice looking minis. I find a lot of the old PP minis very hit and miss, but as of late I really like nearly everything they are putting out.... seems like PP have really stepped up their game... do they have new sculptors in the company? Definitely will be picking up some of these later in the year.
I don't like quite a lot of the older models but the new ones I like pretty much everything... It makes it really difficult for me to pick factions because I don't like whole factions, I like all the new models for every faction -.-
This is a big reason why I've never been able to get into Warma/Hordes. But I will say quite a few of their most recent things are quite good.
I got into it, I just have far too many models from different factions haha. I've barely even played the game yet! I'm a sucker for a pretty model.
I've gotten quite a few of PPs attempts at boardgames. Level 7, high command, undercity and they're all lacking something that makes them enjoyable boardgames imo. As such, I won't be backing their latest KS.
I'm in agreement over Privateer's board game quality.
Conceptually, they are all very sound, but they all end up just missing the mark. It always seems to be one or two things that drag it down from being a serious contender.
I'll give them credit for keep trying new things at least.
The kiss of death for me will be whether or not they decide to put in some sort of random scenario generator a la Warhammer Quest.
What a great way that would be to get me to use all my Warmahordes models!
We have yet to see a real contender to WHQ's system of randomness, and it still seems to be something that a lot of KS backers are clamoring for.
Not sure if PP wants to travel down that road though.
Conceptually, they are all very sound, but they all end up just missing the mark. It always seems to be one or two things that drag it down from being a serious contender.
I'll give them credit for keep trying new things at least.
The kiss of death for me will be whether or not they decide to put in some sort of random scenario generator a la Warhammer Quest.
What a great way that would be to get me to use all my Warmahordes models!
We have yet to see a real contender to WHQ's system of randomness, and it still seems to be something that a lot of KS backers are clamoring for.
Not sure if PP wants to travel down that road though.
I'd love that. Plus it would open up a new market of sales of their war gaming minis to boardgame players. Might be best to wait until they've moved past their restic though. If we hate that stuff can't imagine the boardgame enthusiasts reaction.
So plenty of new stuff discussed on the recent Primecast, copying and pasting a write up I saw:
Malachus, the Burning Truth
PoM Warcaster, Priest of the Incindium
Feora's left-hand minister of propaganda
Inspired by Cleansers and Kingpin from Daredevil
Med-based, "The Butcher of the Protectorate"
Massive staff/torch with spears on the end that makes fire
Has a book chained to his hand
He makes fires bigger
Feat is "Butcher-like" in its escalation of flames (additional damage die?)
"Cloaked in Ash" (has Ashen Veil?)
Broadside Bart-like influences his BG and gets more flames out of his warjacks
Ragnar Skysplitter
Trollkin Runeshaper warlock
One of the largest trollkin warlocks
2-handed maul made from a shattered krielstone
Scrolls on his back, gesturing up to the air
Makes explosive earthquakes
Rival to Doomshaper
Major Maddix, female warcaster
Stormknight warcaster
Small-based, BIG sword
Can shoot lightning from her sword as well
Protectorate POW, captured during invasion of Sul, released later
Bane Witch Agathea
Bane caster, buffs herself?
Spent time in the void
Grim Reaper as a hot woman, floating up on a skirt of souls, scythe/pole-axe
Angel-wings for her turbine
Gaspy-tall, but narrow.
Kaya2-like feat: yo-yo for battlegroup.
Tannith the Feralsong
Circle Warlock, Disciple of Wyrmwood
Staff weapon made of blades and the roots of Wyrmwood
Looks more like a blackclad, flowing cloak
Antithesis of Kaya - not nice to her beasts
"Circle Enforcer"
Cryx-like offensive magic
Magister Helena
"Miss Shyeel 2016"
Arcane Mechanik/myrmidon creator
Buffs her 'jacks, Ossyan's S.O.
Some Vyre Force-manipulation techniques
Beastmaster Zakaar
Skorne warlock
Had been shot in the face by Gunnbjorn in the fluff
Wielding two barbed whips with scorpion-tail stings
He's a weaponmaster who uses his whips for arcane purposes
Can transfer spells to targets he hits
Lord Khazlov, Vicount of Skarsgrad
Khador caster, giant axe, honorable/noble
Started as an Iron Fang warcaster
Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight
Legionairre caster with an athanc shard
Cloak-skirt like Legionairre
2016: "The Year of the Gunmage"
Satyxis Gunsligners
Thorn Gunmages (Amethyst Rose) - assassins of the Llaelese resistance
Caine3 - connected to the B13 (late 2016 release)
You may begin your speculating, whining, celebrating, etc.
jonolikespie wrote: Bane Witch Agathea
Bane caster, buffs herself?
Spent time in the void
Grim Reaper as a hot woman, floating up on a skirt of souls, scythe/pole-axe
Angel-wings for her turbine
Gaspy-tall, but narrow.
Kaya2-like feat: yo-yo for battlegroup.
Whoah that's so unexpected and original and interesting and new!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is Toruk officially an old pervert rather than a dragon?
novaspike wrote: Whoever was asking about Cryx: Mobius is a character bloat thrall solo coming out. Rules are up in war room.
Is he really worth it? I guess not.
It's an interesting area. When I jump back into Cryx (in my Skorne kick now), I'm going to try out Skarre2 with 'the bloat trio'. You're looking at 3-6 pie plates (with black spot) that throw out cont corrosion. That's a lot of infantry hate for 7 points.
Wow. I have always felt the move to plastic caused PP's models to lose some definition. But, man, those look bad.Some of that painting is just horrible as well.
Still glad to see the Minions get some love and expansion, but these are a miss for me.
drazz wrote: Wow. I have always felt the move to plastic caused PP's models to lose some definition. But, man, those look bad.Some of that painting is just horrible as well.
Still glad to see the Minions get some love and expansion, but these are a miss for me.
Wow, those boars are bad imo. Really glad I've already worked out how I'm having mine converted!!
Yup, those are some ugly pigs... is the splatter boar throwing up gang signs? No fur on 90% of the body, strangely scaled arms in odd positions. No bueno.
I also don't like this trend in model companies not paying for good paint jobs on their figures, instead going for some manner of table top standard. Just seems sort of lazy and uninspiring.
Apparently it has been confirmed by PP on facebook that all new colossals will be dual kits that make the old one as well and they will all be plastic.
*Edit* it was the director of marketing and branding and it was on their official forums.
Wehrkind wrote: Yup, those are some ugly pigs... is the splatter boar throwing up gang signs? No fur on 90% of the body, strangely scaled arms in odd positions. No bueno.
I also don't like this trend in model companies not paying for good paint jobs on their figures, instead going for some manner of table top standard. Just seems sort of lazy and uninspiring.
it's not about PP not paying for good paint jobs, as much as it is that Matt was a great painter...
this round looks like the new painter is taking over, since Matt has left the PP studio...
Denny looks like one of his paint jobs, but the boar looks like a new painter, for sure...
this is the first time i have seen that particular style on a PP studio mini...
not impressed, and i've never said that about even Matt's quickest paint job...
it's not exactly easy to live up to the standard of a very talented painter...
looks like the end of an era:(...
No more poop rock for the convergence colossal! I guess one thing that is a little bothersome to me is that, as a casual observer, I wasn't immediately certain if that first image was the new guy or the old guy. I can see the differences side by side, but man, pretty similar. Dual kit, though, so I guess that's not surprising.
Red_Zeke wrote: No more poop rock for the convergence colossal! I guess one thing that is a little bothersome to me is that, as a casual observer, I wasn't immediately certain if that first image was the new guy or the old guy. I can see the differences side by side, but man, pretty similar. Dual kit, though, so I guess that's not surprising.
I know what you mean, they're very similar. Looks so much better on the flight stand than the rock.
Man, that's exciting! It looks a TON better without the poop-stone, and should be very durable and easy to magnetize the dual kit. Plus lovely, lovely hard plastic!
Just let the danged thing stomp around all giant robot proper like!
Tempted to build one if the price is right...
Half of the Convergence Vectors have the same hover technology.
Anyway, if the Kraken/Sepulcher kit is any indication, the new dual kits should all be ~$20 cheaper than the old kits(so around $100 MSRP). Which means most online retailers should be in the $90 range for them.
...
. So, something like 7 duplicates each... in one unit...
. I got around this a little bit by modeling the minis facing different ways on bases with clearly marked front arcs, so that adds a little bit of variety... but it's just a bit frustrating to have them not respond on some things that are so obvious (and for $75 a box, they really could have sculpted a 4th or 5th shambler, resulting in "only" 4 duplicates of each).
