What happened to the rampage pic? Seems a few things have dropped back, 3 giants and 12 vps. Are things really that much less than what they were expecting?

OK dropped Frenzy for Ramapage without the missing Prones and alt scupts for Season 5 and 6 Frenzy just isn't worth it to me saved me having to pay out another $200 today.

They will probably add them in the PM but I can review it then and I'll have more time to see the sculpts and pay for them.

 Zweischneid wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:


In basic DB, two players can agree (it's in the rules on page 50) to use MVPs in exhibition games without any league, at all.

Two players can agree to play my own self-made rules for my own MvP too.

Either way, that IS how I played with MvPs so far, mostly if at all. Try it. You'll find that they are extremely out of whack, some are massively powerful, others barely equal to non-named players, with no known or apparent correlation to their anyhow low point costs.

It's specifically allowable per the rulebook is what I'm saying (page 50).
We have played with MVPs in exhibition matches and yes there are some balance issues.

 GrimDork wrote:
^I've probably said this half a dozen times, but I think I'm gonna hit up hasslefree for a bunch of guns and weaponize well over half of the DBX minis for deadzone and general fun.

Why not get the Dreamforge accessory box? It has a lot of weapons, plus pouches, ammo, grenades, etc., etc..

I think I got some alternate guns from an Infinity mini I bought once. I was planning on adding the Sniper Rifle from that to my spare Wyn Grethski model to make a proper looking Legion mini for Deadzone.

@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

Yeah, I was thinking of using the Nastanza rules for him myself.

Admittedly, I'm a bit terrible at converting, so best of luck with yours!

I'm back in for a dollar. If nothing else I would like some of the rulebooks.

Decided to stay in for an Early Bird Rampage, managed to drop it down to the $140 version. I did the maths and the straight up stuff I want would be $120, vs paying $170 after adding two Season 5 teams (want all S5 except Brokkr). Of course, if somebody DOESN'T want a season 5 team and wants to trade it to me for, say...the mechs or convicts from S4, that would help my pocket even more. Don't care for most of S6, but S5 seems to be where it's at. Bottom line, that extra $50 gets me a ton of stuff I'll likely be able to trade/sell off, so it'll be worth it.

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

the accessory set is this one

http://dreamforge-games.com/products/eisenkern-stormtrooper-accessory-set

I'm probably in there somewhere. I'm not even entirely sure what's in rampage anymore. I just know there are like two sets of yndij/zee guys and two sets of the funky alien add-ons. And a bunch of individual characters that will be fun to paint and or insert as deadzone personalities. I think there's a sports game in there somewhere, but I'm not really sure or overly concerned about it :p

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Decided to stay in for an Early Bird Rampage, managed to drop it down to the $140 version.

You probably got mine. I decided to drop down to about $50 for rules, cards etc. There are some models I might get eventually, but having worked through one KS worth of DB stuff already, I don't think I can face it again, plus the lack of actual model shots means I think I'll wait and see how this stuff turns out, models and rules-wise (After pledging early for the ultimately disappointing Asterians).

 squall018 wrote:
I'm back in for a dollar. If nothing else I would like some of the rulebooks.

You might be better off with the "Referee" pledge level instead. - As you'll get your shipping in that along with the Season 4 rulebook.

 Compel wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
I'm back in for a dollar. If nothing else I would like some of the rulebooks.

You might be better off with the "Referee" pledge level instead. - As you'll get your shipping in that along with the Season 4 rulebook.

I can get it for 10 a la carte and then just add a team or some zombies to get the free shipping. Thanks for looking out though.

 Compel wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
I'm back in for a dollar. If nothing else I would like some of the rulebooks.

You might be better off with the "Referee" pledge level instead. - As you'll get your shipping in that along with the Season 4 rulebook.

Yeah. But that is pointless. If you manage to get 25 from Disorder, in any combination, you also get free shipping.

Oh, fair does then. That's pretty neat.

New update, alt sculpts added to all season 5 and 6 teams.

An alternate sculpt I read that as 1 per team not the 3 people are expecting still a nice addition hopefully the prones will appear in the PM.

As a big thank you for such a great journey we are going to upgrade every season 5 and season 6 team with an alternative pose to give each team more choice and variety.

Down $5.5k since update #46.

Latest update

Well we are in the closing minutes of another fantastic and incredible Kickstarter – thank you everyone for backing and supporting us and helping create such an amazing range.

As we've passed the $580,000 - we're going to honour that and keep that locked in. That means prones and alternate components are in!

As a big thank you for such a great journey we are going to upgrade every season 5 and season 6 team with an alternative pose to give each team more choice and variety.

With each Kickstarter the survey and PayPal sales become more and more relevant – so this time we are going to keep the clock running. Each pledge and extra sale we get will bring with it money to count towards the stretch goals we have set up. We will keep you posted as to how the total is climbing and as the money comes in we will hit the $590k and $600k goals – and the prone figures will be the one after that – and as always frenzy will get them all thrown in free – so grab one of those last few while you can!

I was just coming to comment that the total went DOWN in the last few hours, Mantic apparently noticed as you guys said.

Update #47 Mar 16 2014
30 Minutes to go...
4 comments Like 7 likes
Well we are in the closing minutes of another fantastic and incredible Kickstarter – thank you everyone for backing and supporting us and helping create such an amazing range.

As we've passed the $580,000 - we're going to honour that and keep that locked in. That means prones and alternate components are in!

As a big thank you for such a great journey we are going to upgrade every season 5 and season 6 team with an alternative pose to give each team more choice and variety.

With each Kickstarter the survey and PayPal sales become more and more relevant – so this time we are going to keep the clock running. Each pledge and extra sale we get will bring with it money to count towards the stretch goals we have set up. We will keep you posted as to how the total is climbing and as the money comes in we will hit the $590k and $600k goals – and the prone figures will be the one after that – and as always frenzy will get them all thrown in free – so grab one of those last few while you can

Its dropped even since that update. Kind of crazy.

I wonder if they were locked into that alternate pose no matter what and so just used it as a possible carrot... would've made sense to reveal they were including them earlier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow down another 4k in just a couple minutes (at 574k now, and it had broken 580k earlier and was just at 578k a moment ago).

I wish kicktraq did hourly tracking instead of just daily!

And a quote from Ronnie!

 

Creator Mantic Games 13 minutes agoI think our last update covers this - it happens sometimes and I am really excited by keeping the survey cash included for future stretch goal - I am sure we ill lock in all those missing items. We will keep you all updated on the blog/Facebook and by updates about how much has been raised - but from the comments I am fairly sure we will get the prones, those MVPs and probably even the spider

 DaveC wrote:
An alternate sculpt I read that as 1 per team not the 3 people are expecting still a nice addition hopefully the prones will appear in the PM.

Makes sense really, if the team is 16 then you need 4 different sculpts for the tool to work nicely.

Yeah the previewed Brokkrs had 4 sculpts (whether they use them or not) so it's possible they had already planned on at least 4 sculpts

 DaveC wrote:
Yeah the previewed Brokkrs had 4 sculpts (whether they use them or not) so it's possible they had already planned on at least 4 sculpts

I think we all now know those brokkrs were a case of mass hysteria and dont really exist other wise mantic would have shown them off

That's what I'm thinking- it was the minimum they could actually do, or at least had actually planned to do. Looks like it's going to end at least 5K lower than it was before the "final 2 hours push"... crazy.

Bummed that it went down quite a bit in the final few minutes, hope this reinforces too many kickstarters in rapid succession. This one ends, surveys due in in two weeks for DZ and the MA one will charge us any day now. Too much, guys. I have decent disposable income, and I'm even feeling tapped. Gotta give you the minimum, and you likely would have gotten me for Frenzy if this was 5 months later. Instead, you'll only be getting $140 from me this go around, and it was a real coin toss if I was even going to do that!

Well, at least Mantic said survey money and paypal money was going towards more stretches and all teams were getting alt sculpts.

No need to worry about 4 of the same pose on an 8 man team

Mantic is probably glad to see this end, seeing as how it locks in the money / can't drop further! Obviously, they were successful, but I think it's clear they're straining the golden goose a bit and should think a little more carefully about when and how to run their next campaign (which is pretty much inevitable, right?).

Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

I dropped an EB Frenzy in the last 10 minutes and took a Rampage. Had they locked in alternative sculpts earlier that may not have happened. Had they shown more than concept sketches that may not have happened. As it stands, I'm hoping I didn't pledge too much as it is. I was much less than impressed by what they showed for the teams. Holding critical (to me) items out like the prone and alternative poses made my decision easy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

I can't believe this one didn't reach $600k!

Yes, it still did quite well, but...

No way thy said eye let this end and then fulfill dz s2 here making me buy more dz right?

Right? :(

No, I feel they have hurt their reputation and credibility, quite much with the unannounced switches of materials and failure to produce good models, good enough to equal the concept art at least.

The Deadzone kickstarter didn't quite help raising the confidence and it is quite reflected on this one.

This is a kickstarter (and mars attacks) they must deliver really well, I am not sure if it will be the tipping point, but they must repair their reputation before they attempt launching their big kiackstarters again.

Yeah, a disappointing but not entirely unexpected finish, IMO. Too many things going on right now in KS world, too many projects from Mantic that they need to finish up before embarking on yet more stuff, etc.

That said, I'm happy with what I'm getting, which is way more than I realistically need. There's enough in there that I don't feel like I've spent too much vs. what I'm getting, though I am much less critical on things than a lot of folks here so there's that as well.

I think between this and *maybe* SDE's KS that I'm done with KickStarters for a goodly while. Heck, by the time this one actually gets here I might finally be finished paying for all of them. Fatigue and the fact that FFG will be taking goodly chunks of money from the budget between now and the end of the year means 2015 will be when I'm looking to back something big again.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
No, I feel they have hurt their reputation and credibility, quite much with the unannounced switches of materials and failure to produce good models, good enough to equal the concept art at least.

The Deadzone kickstarter didn't quite help raising the confidence and it is quite reflected on this one.

This is a kickstarter (and mars attacks) they must deliver really well, I am not sure if it will be the tipping point, but they must repair their reputation before they attempt launching their big kiackstarters again.

They remedied the unannounced switching of materials - they were very clear about it this time 'round for which I'm very thankful. I also thought the Deadzone models were what was promised pretty much, and much better than Mantics previous kickstarters (supposedly - it's the first of theirs I've backed). I don't think either impacted this KS.

- Frontloading interfering with "the KS experience"
- Limited market niche
- People having KS burn out / being overloaded with minis to paint
- People realizing they don't need 12 full teams and 20 rarely used individual characters etc. (Lightweights!)
- Competition from high quality kickstarters

The switching of materials is a very large part of why I didn't consider this one- I was one of the ones who got a mixed material team (and poor casts at that) for the first Dreadball.

I didn't follow Deadzone, but it was supposed to be the big saving Kickstarter for Mantic... if folks haven't been impressed with the results of that one, I don't know what more there is to say.

This is a company that, quite clearly, gets middle of the road sculpting done, and has middle of the road quality. And honestly, both are being a bit generous- they've had good results, but also many examples of Much lower than middle of the road sculpting and quality of products.

What continues to shock me is how much they raise despite all that... I guess it's just because the minis are so darn cheap, but even people who want tons of cheap minis have got to be getting maxed out a bit at this point.

I think Bones is a bit different in that you're getting tons of cheap minis in a lesser material, but heck, at least some of them were sculpted by Tre Manor back in the day!

Fatigue, fantasy sports niche, unknown sculpt quality, new materials... there's a lot going on.

Having 2 open surveys during all this didn't help either (well, at least one definite open one... can't remember now for MA).

Like a few of you, I'm probably going to have to take a sabbatical from KS for a bit (after Darklands and SDE though!).

I would like to see Mantic do a super simple campaign for Dwarf King's Hold- one pledge level, limited add ons, stretches basically upgrade what's in the box (or hell, just give me a decent box compared to the current ones).

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

Here is a link to it on Miniature Market. They seem to be out of stock at the moment, but you can probably get one at a lot of place.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

Are you kidding, SS? Please tell me you're kidding.

I ended up going with Disorder for $35. Even if all the sculpts are terrible (not going to happen), that will be easy to spend on the Deadzone acrylic windows. I thought about pledging a dollar, then realized that by paying $35 now, I could pay another $35 or so when the survey concludes, rather than paying $70+ in one chunk, which would attract my wife's attention. (Mu ha ha ha)

Dreadball was always going to be a hard sell for me, as I don't have a huge interest in the game itself and doubt I could interest my family in playing it. I primarily considered mid and higher range pledges to get a lot of new Warpath universe figures to proxy and convert. The campaign had a lot of problems and frustrations, but in the end my decision not to back at Rampage or Frenzy came down to three things others have touched on already.

1. Almost no sculpts or renders shown.

2. The sculpts that were shown, the Asterians and Convicts, were not sculpts I would buy if they weren't bundled.

3. Mantic casting the sculpts in a new material, the results of which we hope will be good, but don't really know yet.

In the end, I wasn't willing to risk $140 on concept art.

I'm not planning on doing KS campaigns again until Deadzone 2 or Warpath launch, and I very much hope that whichever one comes first doesn't launch until the end of the year. If they can do better with getting out more renders and sculpts during the campaign, I could definitely see doing a larger pledge again.

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

re. DFG Eisenkern + DZ/DB compatibility, I did a couple quick and dirty scale comparisons. The rebel human looks pretty damn good with eisenkern arms and rifle imo and with some hot water bending of the minis, they should take to DFG weapons nicely. The scale of the weapons in general seems good for Dreadball, especially as you have the choice between SMGs and rifles. Included some obviously bad scale comparisons such as the stormtrooper head on an Asterian. Sorry for dodgy lighting and blu-tac, also some bits are skewed due to not wanting to cut tabs from the minis.
eg,

Thanks BtI, I finally tracked it down. eBay has them reasonably priced too. The models are neat but the aesthetic doesn't suit me (but that leviathan...), however the pouches, knives, and quite possibly the hands as well all look useful. The RPG things and rifles can just go into the bits box (look kind of WW or modern but not SciFi, bolt action looking rifles, surprised there aren't drumstick bombs), but the rest looks to be worth nabbing a set. Should be a strong supplement to hassle free guns so thanks for the tip


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn Yonan you are my hero. I feel way better about the rifles especially. Heads look more suited to gw guardsmen but that may give me a reason to look back into the few I have around. Wow thanks for the effort

The individual hands are amazing, multiple hand signals and weapon grips for both left and right arms. A large variety of arm poses too, but you run the risk of them not matching the mini whereas the hands are pretty universal.

 Yonan wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
@Bobtheinquisitor might you link it? I went looking for it once at a similar suggestion but my google-fu failed me. Or maybe I was on eBay.

@Compel, consider that idea stolen, and there are already stupidly good sniper merc rules ala Nastanza

re. DFG Eisenkern + DZ/DB compatibility, I did a couple quick and dirty scale comparisons. The rebel human looks pretty damn good with eisenkern arms and rifle imo and with some hot water bending of the minis, they should take to DFG weapons nicely. The scale of the weapons in general seems good for Dreadball, especially as you have the choice between SMGs and rifles. Included some obviously bad scale comparisons such as the stormtrooper head on an Asterian. Sorry for dodgy lighting and blu-tac, also some bits are skewed due to not wanting to cut tabs from the minis.
eg,

Great googly moogly.... That is some damn fine work, and opens worlds of possibilities with Mantic stuff.

Yep, I'm sold, will be scouring eBay as soon as the little one is snoozing.

Agreed- Nicely done, Yonan

I noticed that image and the first thing I wondered was why don't my Deadzone guns have that kind of detail, that's a huge difference and definitely something to consider.

The marauder guns seem fine, they have sights and grips and unaccounted for whatsits. I did notice some softness for the plague guns I've seen so far. Can't comment on the rebs, the warpath enforcer guns seem fine, again can't comment on the DZ enforcer guns as I've only just primed the sniper and haven't gotten around to his gun.

 GrimDork wrote:
The marauder guns seem fine, they have sights and grips and unaccounted for whatsits. I did notice some softness for the plague guns I've seen so far. Can't comment on the rebs, the warpath enforcer guns seem fine, again can't comment on the DZ enforcer guns as I've only just primed the sniper and haven't gotten around to his gun.

Most of my Rebs guns are flat plastic I at first thought to be flash, I started trimming it off and realised it had a mold line!

I'm not a big fan of DZ Reb weapons either, but like the marauders etc. I like the Reb models, so this could be a good option. Added a couple more Dreadball comparisons... Teratons, Nameless and Z'zor were out for easy Eisenkern conversions due to size and/or lack of hands ; p Zees look pretty damn good even with a roughly done SMG, and with some bending the chromium chargers could look good with rifles. Was having trouble getting anything done with the Ratmen team for some reason. Bodes well for getting some good Deadzone minis out of some of the Extreme teams at least I hope! Go~~~ Crystallens and Sphyr and the other 10 teams that I can't really remember what they are ; p

 Yonan wrote:
I'm not a big fan of DZ Reb weapons either, but like the marauders etc. I like the Reb models, so this could be a good option. Added a couple more Dreadball comparisons... Teratons, Nameless and Z'zor were out for easy Eisenkern conversions due to size and/or lack of hands ; p Zees look pretty damn good even with a roughly done SMG, and with some bending the chromium chargers could look good with rifles. Was having trouble getting anything done with the Ratmen team for some reason. Bodes well for getting some good Deadzone minis out of some of the Extreme teams at least I hope! Go~~~ Crystallens and Sphyr and the other 10 teams that I can't really remember what they are ; p

Recoil dampeners for the win!

privateer4hire wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Deadzone II Kickstarter next month, hope you're all excited.

Are you kidding, SS? Please tell me you're kidding.

I am.

This is very possibly the result of the money having already left my account, but I'm actually quite pleased with how this ended up - more so than Mantic possibly, who may be a little out of pocket at this point!

There were two effective pledges - one normal, one for completionists. People (I'd hope) ended up at the one that interested them more. The cheaper pledge ended up being better absolute value for money, but the completionist level still offered huge savings over individual add-ons (with the usual tradeoff of losing flexibility), something that wasn't possible in the first Dreadball KS, for example.

We have a new game, an expansion/multiplayer mode, a smaller expansion/conversion kit, a campaign, a mousemat for DBO, 12 teams & rules for DBO, 12 teams & rules for DBX, a load of nice-looking (but probably seldom used) MVPs & Giants, and a decent selection of extras with rules that enhance/complicate things.

I think the proof will be in the quality of the rules - whether the new teams unbalance DBO, whether all of the additional rules/modes make DBX more fun to play or just longer. In terms of sheer product I believe this will now be the best-supported tabletop sports game in history - I just hope it has the longevity of something like Bloodbowl!

Its seemed like a very confused and bitty campaign looking back.

Take the main pledge level being pushed - it wasn't Rampage (which is actually quite a nice deal), but Frenzy at a whopping $375. Sure it includes everything, andyes its a great deal, but I dont have that cash in one go. Comparing it to sedition wars, I pledge $100ish and ended up nearly tripling that later as the pledge manager got rolled out - I had the time to save the cash and I didn't have to take one big hit.

As for the next Kickstarter... I'd expect a Deadzone 2 to hit in August/September with a Christmas delivery slot and a much lower sweet spot (no more then a $100) -

 RiTides wrote:

What continues to shock me is how much they raise despite all that... I guess it's just because the minis are so darn cheap.

I think its more that the games themselves are just very, very good.

I don't do kickstarter, I have a local shop and I'd rather buy through them so I still have one, but that's just a personal thing and I understand why it is so popular, but for me deadzone and dreadball, both of which I bought at retail (minus the shop discount) are first and foremost two of the best tabletop games produced in the last few years. The minis themselves, whilst a bit variable in quality, are secondary to that.

A potential Christmas delivery for a potential Deadzone 2 KS?

Good luck with that!

I've left my feedback for Mantic in the comments and I'm hoping they send me the why did you drop down your pledge email that they like to send out so I can give some proper feedback.

I think people here have mostly covered the problems already, Mantic need to step back from KS for awhile and catch up with what they have on already. Running a KS while 2 other projects had open PMs was a mistake. I think a lot of people ended up robbing peter to pay Paul, Mantic got the same amount of money from them just spread over more projects.

They have to stop this time limited ubber EB pledge level business both Frenzy and BoTB caused problems. The projects have become far to front loaded or mid point loaded leading to crashes. This is the first of the so called big KS players to flat line their kicktraq graph at the end (that I know of) and that alone must tell them something.

In the end my decision to go with a minimal Rampage pledge for now came down to a lack of alt poses and prones, only 2 teams sculpted and the rest concept art only and actually not liking 5 of those concepted teams who I just don't think fit the gritty theme that I thought this was going for.

I look forward to Deadzone 2 but mostly for the terrain which is great and the best stuff mantic have managed to produce so far (IMO).

Some good news about the pledge manager with this one is that they've got their own solution in place that allows them to track the total as surveys come in and unlock new stretch goals and keep us informed of the progress via their blog.

So, in effect, the kickstarter continues once the pledge manager is released and continues to unlock however many more goals are needed.

I'm wondering how long before they remove Kickstarter from the equation completely and run a crowdfunder using their own survey software.

It's certainly possible for them, just a matter of seeing whether or not it'd be desirable. It's likely that this hybrid initial kickstarter + extended survey preorder after system is the best solution since KS as a platform is still great.

They've already done it with deadzone, used the survey money to unlock more stretch goals like hard plastic enforcers and new terrain sprue, DBX will be the first one to formalize the process is all.

 Alpharius wrote:
A potential Christmas delivery for a potential Deadzone 2 KS?

Good luck with that!

How about a potential Christmas delivery for my Deadzone 1 Kickstarter?

That stuff is already on clearance in most stores, and I am still waiting.....

Scarletsquig I assume you will be able to continually add to it before it locks on the final day ( a bit like how you can submit multiple surveys now and only the last counts) and just pay any extra due each time otherwise people are going to wait until the end to watch the total rise to a point where more SGs are unlocked before they commit their funds but if people don't commit funds until the very end no more SGs unlock before then catch 22 if you see what I mean.

 DaveC wrote:
I've left my feedback for Mantic in the comments and I'm hoping they send me the why did you drop down your pledge email that they like to send out so I can give some proper feedback.

I think people here have mostly covered the problems already, Mantic need to step back from KS for awhile and catch up with what they have on already. Running a KS while 2 other projects had open PMs was a mistake. I think a lot of people ended up robbing peter to pay Paul, Mantic got the same amount of money from them just spread over more projects.

They have to stop this time limited ubber EB pledge level business both Frenzy and BoTB caused problems. The projects have become far to front loaded or mid point loaded leading to crashes. This is the first of the so called big KS players to flat line their kicktraq graph at the end (that I know of) and that alone must tell them something.

In the end my decision to go with a minimal Rampage pledge for now came down to a lack of alt poses and prones, only 2 teams sculpted and the rest concept art only and actually not liking 5 of those concepted teams who I just don't think fit the gritty team that I thought this was going for.

I look forward to Deadzone 2 but mostly for the terrain which is great and the best stuff mantic have managed to produce so far (IMO).

They exacerbated the front loading on this one by having EB for different levels, encouraging folks to grab one of each and waiting to see which will be the better for them. Especially for this type of KS, pledging for an All In level early may make some sense, but so does seeing if All In is really what you expected/wanted. If you don't know what the final contents are until the end, it is hard to decide until the end unless they make it worth it for you early on. In this case, for me, they did not do so. when they make statements like 'well, we would have included the cheerleaders and fans and Dredd and whatever if we made more' it lets me know they priced that level to include those things and expected overall funding to hit the level making that possible. If over all funding doesn't hit that level, so they don't include those things, they are really stating they overpriced that level for what they ended up putting in it. Inability to see anything but the concept art further decreased the desire to keep that level. Who knows what they'll actually deliver?

And as you said, many of the teams made little sense to the theme of DBX. That also went into my decision to drop Frenzy.

It seems to me an "all-in" level is a better weapon for mid-KS, combined with releasing half-a-dozen of the headline stretch goals. If you've got people hovering at $x on your initial sweet spot and you announce a raft of your best stretch goals and then offer a bigger package that entices the average pledger up a good slug and gets a lot of them (I dunno what people consider reasonable, +$100 on sweet spot?), you'll get a whole wave of pledgers jumping up and giving it some momentum.

It also seems to me that EBs are not necessary for Mantic. They got a good core of players who like the games they make, so they're going to get off to a strong start anyway.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Some good news about the pledge manager with this one is that they've got their own solution in place that allows them to track the total as surveys come in and unlock new stretch goals and keep us informed of the progress via their blog.
So, in effect, the kickstarter continues once the pledge manager is released and continues to unlock however many more goals are needed.
I'm wondering how long before they remove Kickstarter from the equation completely and run a crowdfunder using their own survey software.
It's certainly possible for them, just a matter of seeing whether or not it'd be desirable. It's likely that this hybrid initial kickstarter + extended survey preorder after system is the best solution since KS as a platform is still great.
They've already done it with deadzone, used the survey money to unlock more stretch goals like hard plastic enforcers and new terrain sprue, DBX will be the first one to formalize the process is all.

Count me in for cutting out the overheads. Kickstarter + Amazon/Paypal + Backerkit = not insubstantial cost, most of which is avoidable (payment processor not so much). Losing the KS advertising platform will no doubt reduce the influx of new pledgers, but as the frontloading has shown - they have a substantial following that probably contribute the majority to the campaigns anyway.

Of course, they did a time-limited 'all in' for Mars Attacks (which ended up being exceptionally good value) that pumped up the total massively, and then caused backsliding towards the end as people de-duped/downsized.

I really think it's as simple as: don't encourage people to speculatively pledge through early birds, especially multiple early birds. Then (I'd imagine) people would upgrade to higher levels once the value was there, and it would happen a bit more organically.

In a sense the tactics did work though - they got 700 backers to pledge at the ~$375 level, which is completely bonkers for a $75 boardgame that already contains everything you need to play in the box!

I don't think cutting out KS is a good idea at all. KS is a trusted platform and Mantic would likely lose everyone who wasn't already a steady customer.

Bioptic wrote:
In a sense the tactics did work though - they got 700 backers to pledge at the ~$375 level, which is completely bonkers for a $75 boardgame that already contains everything you need to play in the box!

Excellent point. In the wargaming world, $150 for a kickstarter board game with extras is considered standard, and usually a very good deal depending on the campaign.

In the real world, paying $150 for a board game with extras is considered insane.

Some of you are more fortunate than I am in this respect, but spending $1,000+ over the course of a year on miniatures would be financially inadvisable for me, and get me in serious hot water with my wife. I'd be very content if Mantic would do just two kickstarter campaigns a year, one fantasy, one sci-fi. As an annual event, it would be much easier to be a return customer and make a substantial pledge each time.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't think cutting out KS is a good idea at all. KS is a trusted platform and Mantic would likely lose everyone who wasn't already a steady customer.

Mantic has a webshop of their own that's been in business for a while and a solid history of fulfilling their crowdfunding projects that they can point to, trust shouldn't be an issue at all. The eyeballs gained from the KS platform would be much bigger imo so Mantic would need to decide if the reduction in overheads is worth the loss of exposure. There would probably be substantial upsides too - doesn't KS limit payment processors which irritates a lot of potential backers? Look at Star Citizen, it received 2 million on KS but is stretching to 41 million now thanks to funding through their own site.

Despite being a huge fan of Mantic I had to question if I really needed DBX. The game is still relatively new - how many DB in-depth articles are there on the Mantic website? How many large scale DB events have been run? Not that many. Wass it really time to start expanding that system so quickly?

I decided no. Supporting a game system should be more than "release more stuff"... I like the idea of being able to pick/form a team of any player/race but did it need a kickstarter to do this? I don't think so, especially with so many other issues needing addressing.

I dropped to the $1 disorder and MAY end up getting one or two of the Season Rulebooks but I'm in no rush and can happily wait till retail release.

Sorry to be a damp squib but I hope Mantic take time now to get their house in order, their Quality Control up to speed and address a lot of issues that should have been cleared up a long time ago.

*disclaimer: if a DKH game were to come along which allowed for classic dungeon delving, utilising the entire KOW range and adding new monsters/hero sculpt I would drop some cash on that

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
A potential Christmas delivery for a potential Deadzone 2 KS?

Good luck with that!

How about a potential Christmas delivery for my Deadzone 1 Kickstarter?

That stuff is already on clearance in most stores, and I am still waiting.....

And will it be as messed up as my DZ1 was, along with many others?

Great!

Yeah, Mantic could definitely do with slowing down their KickStarters (which I think we've all said the past 3, no?). I'm a reasonably die-hard completion-ist and I lack any sort of regulation (read: wife/girlfriend) on the money I spend so my "discretionary spending" is fairly high and even I'm getting a bit tapped out on enthusiasm.

The hybrid-KS model similar to what Star Citizen did would be quite interesting. A lot of SC's funding increases have come as they show more content and modules, and I don't see why a similar approach wouldn't be successful for Mantic. It would also allow them to stretch things out much longer and they could really gauge customer response to sculpts very early on in the process. If a lot of people pledge for X when the initial sculpt is shown, we have a winner and go to production. If not many people are interested, or many people actively move funds away, then they know to send it back immediately for a re-work. Getting honest communication from the masses within a comment section means you cater to the vocal minority most of the time. Looking at where dollars (or GBP) are being placed tells a much more accurate story.

Properly harnessed, that would be a most effective system. I can see a lot of places to feth it up though, and I'm sure Mantic would come up with a few more I haven't thought of (some on purpose, some not so much...). Still, if their new pledge manager could do it that might be the best situation for all parties.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't think cutting out KS is a good idea at all. KS is a trusted platform and Mantic would likely lose everyone who wasn't already a steady customer.

It may also open them up to direct liability that KS diffuses.
If enough folks got upset that they didn't get their stuff in X months and banded together, they might potentially come directly at Mantic (if Mantic crowdfunded internally versus using KS).

KS provides a shield of - hey, you knew it was a gamble when you spent your dough.
When it's the company expected to also produce the goods, I imagine it becomes easier for consumers to say I paid X for Y and didn't get my stuff from the manufacturer.

privateer4hire wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't think cutting out KS is a good idea at all. KS is a trusted platform and Mantic would likely lose everyone who wasn't already a steady customer.

It may also open them up to direct liability that KS diffuses.
If enough folks got upset that they didn't get their stuff in X months and banded together, they might potentially come directly at Mantic (if Mantic crowdfunded internally versus using KS).

KS provides a shield of - hey, you knew it was a gamble when you spent your dough.
When it's the company expected to also produce the goods, I imagine it becomes easier for consumers to say I paid X for Y and didn't get my stuff from the manufacturer.

Said differently, it would force Mantic to adhere to better program management and customer service practices.

I'm all for it.

The question is "Why does Mantic need crowd funding?"

It's not doing it on their own versus kickstarter, it's why is it needed period?

I understand they wanted to have lots if stuff for DBX on the docket, and in order to do that, they needed to dip further in DBO and it's teams, but would it have really been that hard to release DBX straight to retail? They've sold well over 10k copies of the original game. The limited stock of Deadzone they had for the initial release didn't last but a few weeks. Why couldn't Season 4/DBX been released through Dreadball revenue and then that revenue paid for Season 5?

Earth Dragon wrote:
The question is "Why does Mantic need crowd funding?"

It's not doing it on their own versus kickstarter, it's why is it needed period?

I understand they wanted to have lots if stuff for DBX on the docket, and in order to do that, they needed to dip further in DBO and it's teams, but would it have really been that hard to release DBX straight to retail? They've sold well over 10k copies of the original game. The limited stock of Deadzone they had for the initial release didn't last but a few weeks. Why couldn't Season 4/DBX been released through Dreadball revenue and then that revenue paid for Season 5?

I feel like the most obvious answer is the best one (though its not NEEDED). They just took in half a million dollars in pre-orders and took a TON of the risk out of the whole thing. If people are still willing to spend, why wouldn't you? Its the whole sense of community and excitement that a KS provides that makes people spend over 300$ at a time. I'm sure some people have, but I, nor anyone I have known have spent over 300$ on a pre-order from a company. Yet, with the excitement a KS builds, its just par for the course. The only reason I can see not to are the FLGS. But most companies don't seem to really care about them, lets be honest.

I wish they wouldn't do it either, but I think WHY they do it pretty much stares you in the face after every KS they do.

Half a million in pre-orders at, for many of the orders, massively discounted rates.

I feel like the more they do it, the more money they may be leaving on the table. And if course many wouldn't be ordering as much, but that also means they wouldn't have as many associated costs.

I myself am pretty much done with miniature KS projects. Quite frankly, the market is starting to get a bit bloated.

KS and miniature/boardgames are here to stay until this chart looks a lot differently than it does now:

ETA on survey?

Dreadball Xtreme update #50 is now up:



The Koris have been started – still work in progress.



Work-in-progress Kreed





The Medi-bot is finished! They can be taken as part of your team as equipment, much in the same way as coaching dice and cards. Cool little detail to tell you about - in the background, the pistons either side of the bed allow the medi-bot to extend the stretcher for patients of different sizes.

And that's your lot

Pledge Manager

We had hoped to get the pledge manager out this week but it was more important to test it thoroughly so we’ve delayed the launch.

It’s a new system where you'll be able to check what you ordered, make additions too (which are charged via paypal or credit card) as well as update your contact and delivery details. It’s a much more sophisticated system and the most complex the designer has built, so we’re taking the time to get it right.

We hope to release it soon!

Beware the Perils of the Jungle

24 players, 12 pitches, 1 trophy.

Want your first taster of a DreadBall tournament? On the 17th May we’re holding the DreadBall Azure Forest Tournament at the Mantic Games Open Day, held in Nottingham, UK.

Played using Original DreadBall Rules, all you need to do is download the tournament pack, bring your team and you’re all set to compete to become Azure Forest Champion! Click here to book your spot and view the tournament pack.

DreadBall Xtreme Previews

The Mantic Open Day is a true day of gaming but we’ve also got our studio on hand to show you all of the sculpts and artwork for our latest games – including DreadBall Xtreme!

You’ll be able to see all of the models we’ve had done, plus you can tackle Jake with your Xtreme questions.

If you want to know more about what’s on at the Open Day, check out the blog here – and grab your ticket here! Single and Group tickets are available at a low introductory rate until 31st April and will go up in price after that date. In the mean time, we’ve got some new sculpts to show off…

Link to the original post: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-xtreme/posts/799747?at=BAh7CDoMcG9zdF9pZGkDAzQMSSIIdWlkBjoGRVRpAzTlYEkiC2V4cGlyeQY7BlRJIhgyMDE0LTA1LTA0IDExOjQ1OjQ3BjsGVA%3D%3D--caf8f71c9649754212b02ad1010231014e6c2c16&ref=backer_project_update

Well, this Kickstarter is officially still running, so I guess it's time to keep updating it!

We just got another MVP added to Rampage and there's another one on the way.

Sweet! Those sneaky devils.

Won't say no to more freebies!

My DBX pledge manager came through over the weekend.

I had initially put in for the soft original pitch and some scenery for $25.

I've just filled it in and something has come down in price, as I managed to get a rush marker cheerleader mini for free!

Bonus.

Hopefully I'll get some games in and my teams painted before the new pitch arrived...

Hmmm no posts here in 8 months but the N&R thread got retired so here's the deluxe original Dreadball pitch

Lovely. I really wish they had just told us from the get go that the second Kickstarter was just to add more stuff for DBO and we should buy DBO, this DBX thing is really just some sort of joke.

#77
Plague Outbreak!



Posted by Mantic Games



Happy Easter everyone!

We’re sorry it has been so long since the last update, and for not keeping Mission Control more regularly up to date – we hope that you are enjoying playing DreadBall Xtreme and painting your Season 4 teams.

This update is primarily to do with the miniatures, which are all now in our warehouse except the Plague and the Mechanites. These were the last tool to be completed are about to leave the manufacturer. With them on the water, it means that we’ve completed the figures side of things!

As we’re sure you’re aware, the Plague and Mechanics are the only teams that don’t come preassembled – instead there are a whole bunch of bits with which you can choose to customize your figures.

Here is our sample studio Plague team:
New! Kovossian Mutants Team

These are the horrific plague-hybrids of the Kossovian Mutants. The basic players are relatively simple to build, with each torso/legs parts being identifiable as being a Jack, Guard or Striker. There are strange biological Dreadball glove set into arms, as well as a few Judwan arms for the strikers.



After building the basic set ups for your players, you will be able to add extra details and mutations onto your players. This kit is jam-packed with extra components such as tails, vestigial wings, and heads from several different alien races. You can combine parts together to build a Zz’or-esque Guard, or randomly combine components for a Namless/Yndij/Human/Grogan player!

What do you think of these? Which teams of the next wave are you looking forward to?

We’ll be bringing plenty more shots and images out for all of the new miniatures as we gear up for our third shipment in late May. We will have had all of the digital content out well before then, and we will get DreadBall Xtreme Mission Control up to date in the next week as well.

Thanks for your support, and your patience.

Yikes!

Those aren't very good looking models - and they really show off how bad those 'integrated bases' are too!

I disagree. I think they look decent for board game pieces. Hopefully there's a few more odds and ends that aren't on display there as well. Need more heads!

I will concede the integrated bases though. At this point though, I pretty much expect every Dreadball figure to have them so as to facilitate using the hex bases.

I didn't realize they were gonna be Frankensteined that much, I was thinking more mutant less stitch/graft... but there's plenty of bits coming to play around with.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I disagree. I think they look decent for board game pieces. Hopefully there's a few more odds and ends that aren't on display there as well. Need more heads!

I will concede the integrated bases though. At this point though, I pretty much expect every Dreadball figure to have them so as to facilitate using the hex bases.

...

Have they confirmed that the 'Plague" shrinks your legs/elongates your torso then?

These really are some awful looking miniatures.

 Alpharius wrote:
These really are some awful looking miniatures.

I have to agree. The Plague zombies are great, the 1st Gen is great, but the 3rd gens, whose basic body type these mutants follow, were a huge mistake. I'll be getting these as part of my Dreadball Xtreme pledge fulfillment, but I won't be building them as intended. I hold out hope that some of the limbs and heads will be useful for converting other minis.

Too bad; most of the sculpts that have come out of DBX have been wonderful.

Wasn't planning on playing Mutants anyhow. Thought they were a sketchy idea from the start.

Sad the Crystallans got bumped all the way back to Season 6. Not sure how much "quality" substance Season 5 is gonna bring. We'll have to see.

I don't think it's as much of a problem Mantic tries to update all these systems at the same time, BUT the fact they have one guy tinkering with all the rule sets is a problem. There really is no reason DBX and DBO shouldn't have their own lead designer seperate from all the other games at this point.

Jake has put up Beta rules for some of the new teams on his blog - http://quirkworthy.com/

Crystallans - https://quirkworthy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/crystallans.pdf

Mechanites - https://quirkworthy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/mechanites.pdf
There's a lot involved in building Mechanites!

Koris - https://quirkworthy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/koris.pdf

Do we know when the second survey goes out? I'd like to get a set of those energy dudes after seeing the MVP version.

Is there going to be a second survey? I thought they had mentioned it, but that was also before their switch in pledge manager systems as well.

Unless they go with the other company's PM rather than their own.

I want the energy and rock guys. Maybe some hobgoblins too.

Then give them all guns and let them shoot each other up in a Deadzone.

It's in update #57

The other thing it means is that there will be a second survey early next year as well - so you'll get a second bite of the cherry and the great Kickstarter prices!

That said things have changed since that update. That was before split shipping into 3 waves. They now have their own pledge manager where as DBX was done through PledgeManager (the same one used by Mercs) so they will either have to build a new admittedly smaller PM using their new system or pay PledgeManager for the use of theirs again one costs time and one costs money so it's wait and see time but with DBX wave 3 still on course to ship in May it's looking less likely that there will be a second PM.

Here's the Ada-Lorena rules
https://quirkworthy.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/ada-lorana-v2.pdf

Woof, robot team doesn't look bad, but nothing close to good. I want my dollar back :(

A picture of the Sho-Juun sponsor has surfaced:

Not bad, thanks for sharing

He kind of needs a light saber or something.

Is that a...

...Rage Fist®™?!?

Looks like he's just flipped the table after getting frustrated at waiting for the DBX KS fulfillment.

Clearly he's mad because he would have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids and their dog.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait--what are those things in the background? I want those!

Those would be the Koris. They were in yesterday's backer update. Dunno if this link will work for ya

https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/003/828/827/2dfd69ba657cad48f67d800491abc03a_original.jpg?v=1432142734&w=700&h=&fit=max&auto=format&q=92&s=331021b48024bf9d269d9fda33a2422d

Those things are frightening. I hope they end up in Warpath.

They're Zee sized, though.

The Koris aren't Zee sized you can see them in the image above with Sho-Juun.

The Tsudochan MVP is Zee sized but it's not clear if they all are as we haven't seen the final miniatures next to other miniatures yet to establish their size.

The Koris MVP Slartibartfast (or whatever his name is) is about standard humanoid size as well.

I'd love to see a Koris force in Warpath, particularly with more weird beasties from whatever alternate dimension they originate from, but I doubt we'll ever see it, even in metal. Mantic won't do a number of off-the-beaten path sculpts in hard plastic because of the economics, so we get them in restic, or metal, or resin, or not at all. This is supposed to be practical.

So here's what I don't understand: if the economics of doing weird, limited interest models in hard plastic is completely unfeasible, how does Wyrd / Malifaux exist at all? I just bought and assembled a Razorspine Rattler, which will make a wonderful Plague beastie, the kind Mantic would never dream of releasing in hard plastic. I mean, there was no way they were ever going to make the Aberration, for example, in hard plastic, and I doubt we'll even see hard plastic 1st Gens. Hard plastic 2nd gens aren't exactly a given either at this point, though since they're willing to do not-Rat Ogres in hp, maybe they'll surprise us.

And the Razorspine is arguably one of Wyrd's less out-there sculpts (how many gamers are dying to buy hard plastic Cajun Bayou gremlins?) Mantic say it can't be done, Wyrd goes out and does it beyond the pale on a regular basis, making dozens of high quality, hard plastic minis that have little to no application outside of their own very niche game system. Is Malifaux really that much more popular? Is Wyrd about to go bankrupt, or is Mantic being too conservative?

I dunno man, I dunno. What I *do* know, is that I want my Koris ASAP. I'm ok with some specialists being in restic. You'll probably have less pull with the 40k crowd if you aren't 100% HP all the time, but I still think small units of specialists would be fine in restic, especially ogre sized stuff as the material works better there.

Also:

Dropship.

It seems like the panel lines get deeper with every render. Next iteration will look like a badass Rubik's Cube.