This is a thread to track the progress of the Dreadball Xtreme Kickstarter by Mantic games, an alternate self-standing gameplay expansion for Dreadball.
- Minis are all single-piece plastic, same stuff that is being used in Mars Attacks. No assembly required.
- There are no set teams, you can buy whatever players you like from whatever team you like to build your own custom team.
- Lots of violence, lots of death gameplay. There are rules for kicking players while they're down!
DreadBall Xtreme is the underground sports game of the future and the follow-up to the hit board game DreadBall – The Futuristic Sports Game.
Two teams battle it out on the pitch to outscore each other, with all new twists:
- No Referee = More Violence for Everyone: with no one to stop the bloodshed, anything goes! Sucker punches and stomps are the norm, and the introduction of explosive collars, deadly traps and bloodsucking aliens only increase the level of violence.
- Customize your Battlefield: games are organized in prisons and warehouses at a moment’s notice, using industrial scenery to shake things up - everywhere from the scoring zone to the ball launch location can change!
- Play as Enigmatic Sponsors: the powerful organizers behind the game, Sponsors dictate your play-style and are experts in intimidation, blackmail and illegal gambling. Best of all, Sponsors allow you to build entirely unique teams out of any player combination you like!
Stretch Goal List (completed stretch goals in italics)
$550k: Eclipse sponsor, free for Frenzy backers.
$535k: Kryphos, Koris MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$525k: Hobgoblin and Koris teams produced, +32 free minis for Frenzy.
$515k: Medibot produced, free for Frenzy backers.
$500k: Season 5 rulebook produced, digital copy free for $100+ backers, printed copy free for $375+ backers. KS Exclusive signed art print added free for $75+ backers. Free season 6 team of your choice for Rampage backers.
$480k: Schnorkel the Avenger, Elastopod MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$470k: The Excavator, Brokkr MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$460k: Sann-gar, Giant added into the DBX multiplayer expansion.
$445k: Galdo, Rebs Kraaw MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$435k: Irsala, Sephalin MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$425k: Forgefather Iron Ancestor, Giant added into the DBX multiplayer expansion.
$410k: Crypt, Crystallan MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$400k: Forgefather Brokkr Team produced, 16 free minis for $375+ backers.
$385k: Frenzy dice added to Frenzy.
$380k: Lyra the Fixer MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$370k: Brute Force, Mechanite MVP, free for $150+ backers.
$360k: Season 4 rulebook produced, digital copy free for $100+ backers, printed copy free for $375+ backers.
$350k: Mechanites Robot Team produced, 16 free minis for $375+ backers.
$325k: Digital Short Story Compendium, free copy for all backers.
$315k: Dead Man Davitz, Plague MVP.
$300k: + 5 Free Agents added to $100+ backers.
$290k: Acrylic Counters, free for $375+ backers.
$285k: Alt. poses for Convict and Asterian teams.
$275k: Asylum, MVP, free for $100+ backers.
$260k: Free rules upgraded to Mantic Digital versions.
$250k: Plague Team produced. +1 Free team of your choice for $100 and $150 pledge levels. 16 Plague added to Frenzy ($375).
$225k: Kailasa, Asterian MVP added free to $100+ pledge levels.
$210k: +4 prone minis added to the DBX boxed game.
$200k: Chovar Psychozoan, Giant added into the DBX multiplayer expansion.
$175k: Brickbat Vognar MVP added free to $100+ pledge levels.
$160k: Red/blue plastic bases made. Boxed game upgraded with them.
$150k: +4 Free Agent minis in the DBX boxed game.
$125k: +16 extra Convict/Asterian minis for $100+ pledge levels.
$100k: Project Funded.
Pledge Levels and Rewards Guide
There are two main pledge levels, Rampage ($150) and Frenzy ($375).
Here is a list of everything included in these pledge levels, along with all stretch goal freebies.
Note: By "RRP" (Kickstarter retail price) I mean, the value of the freebies as they appear in the add-ons section, as the final RRPs for the products have not been decided. Also, currently I'm making a reasonable assumption that the core contents of Rampage are worth $150 RRP in themselves. Also listed at the end is an estimate for the actual full retail value of the pledge levels, based on current dreadball prices of $25 for a team of 8 and $25 for a pack of 4 MVPS.
$150 - "Rampage":109 minis total. Current total value = $323 RRP. Estimated retail value = $385 - Dreadball Xtreme boxed game. ($75 RRP, 31 minis)
- Dreadball Player Manual
- Xtreme sponsors set. (4 minis)
- Xtreme multiplayer expansion (with customizable pitch and 3 giants).
- KS exclusive Ardia Shi'lek ($10)
- Free Season 5 Team of your choice. ($15 RRP)
- Free Season 6 Team of your choice. ($15 RRP)
- 8 extra Plague minis. ($15 RRP)
- 8 extra Mechanite minis. ($15 RRP)
$375 - "Frenzy": - 241 minis total. Current total value = $563 RRP. Estimated retail value = $1027 - Dreadball Xtreme boxed game. ($75 RRP)
- Dreadball Player Manual
- Xtreme sponsors set.
- Xtreme multiplayer expansion (with customizable pitch and 3 giants)
- KS exclusive Ardia Shi'lek ($10 RRP)
For anyone looking at frenzy and not seeing the value yet, there are 12 teams planned for this Kickstarter, it is likely that Frenzy will end up including 16 players + prone minis for all of them.
Hmm, I dunno. I may get the basic level - the equivalent of Deadzone Recon or Dreadball Jack. But it's just far too soon on the heels of the other kickstarts for anything like Striker or Strike Team.
Jake covered it on his blog it may have evolved a bit (this is over a year old) but the basics are there and recent news hasn't changed much they are looking to add some sort of scatter terrain features as well as the games are played in Warehouses, Cargo bays etc.
You pick a team sponsor that allows access to various different players and you have a number of credits to spend to build your team.
Scoring zones are the same but there are lots of obstacles on the pitch.
Base game Convicts and Asterians - new Asterian team more brutal than the current one.
6-8 new MVPs
KS will fund new teams that can be used in regular Dreadball as well.
Possibly 3 new Seasons 4,5,6 - 4 new teams each (12 total) - depends on funding.
Aiming for 24 teams in total over 6 seasons (not including MA team)
Dreadball Extreme pitch will be like the Ultimate pitch (mouse pad type) also possible that the original pitch will be done like this as a stretch goal.
I like dreadball. I do think though perhaps its time Mantic just released new products to market and gave kickstarter a miss.
They have a decent playerbase for this expansion, they have lots of gaming shops running tournaments and supporting all their products (I bought deadzone from a shop due to them actually having a set out to look at). Let those shops have all the sales for once.
scarletsquig wrote: - Starter teams are Convicts vs. Asterians (a different type than the regular dreadball ones).
Damn it, Mantic, it's not that bloody hard. Put the board, rules and stuff in its own box, and then sell it as a bundle with two teams of the customer's choice.
Reserving judgement. May go in for the base game. Slight potential to bump up to full sweet spot if its just that good and I sell some olds models. Maybe.
NoggintheNog wrote: I like dreadball. I do think though perhaps its time Mantic just released new products to market and gave kickstarter a miss.
They have a decent playerbase for this expansion, they have lots of gaming shops running tournaments and supporting all their products (I bought deadzone from a shop due to them actually having a set out to look at). Let those shops have all the sales for once.
Yep, and expend the time they would have used on the KS catching up on customer service issues and evolving their processes to lessen issues in the future.
NoggintheNog wrote: I like dreadball. I do think though perhaps its time Mantic just released new products to market and gave kickstarter a miss.
They have a decent playerbase for this expansion, they have lots of gaming shops running tournaments and supporting all their products (I bought deadzone from a shop due to them actually having a set out to look at). Let those shops have all the sales for once.
They do.
I am still waiting on my Deadzone-stuff from the Kickstarter. With Mantic, you're more likely to get it from the shops either way
Sci-fi sports games are a low priority for me, and after buying into Deadzone and Mars Attacks, my wallet's saying no to doing a sweet spot pledge for this one. I think I'll pledge $1 to keep up with the Warpath universe developments (after all, Dreadball turned into a test-bed for a bunch of new Warpath / Deadzone races and designs), and in case any new must-have items for Deadzone creep into the backer survey. And possibly to get another Blaine fig, but I already have one and will be getting another, so I'm not sure I need to have three of him.
After the Deadzone accessory sprue and Antenociti bundles, I already have plenty of barrels, sci-fi boxes, warehouse bric-a-brac, etc. It'll be interesting to see what Dreadball EX might add to the mix.
I also have to agree that Mantic need to stop having two locked-in starting teams with no customer choice.
I'll also be in this for KS exclusives and "can I use this for Deadzone?" buys.
I did go in on Mars Attacks, but ended up converting half the pledge back into Deadzone terrain (which is really awesome once you stick two fingers up at the connectors and just glue it together).
If there's a sprue of obstacles, cargo crates etc. and general sci-fi scatter terrain/ street furniture I'll go in for a healthy chunk of that.
I guess they are trying to make a shop ready box set straight out of the gates but a stripped down set with no teams and just credit in your pledge to buy 2 or 4 teams would be a good option.
This time the "sweet spot" will probably be a mix of the box set with 2 set teams (Convicts and Asterians) and then a set amount of credit to spend on other stuff. A lot of people didn't want all of the 4 original teams. To be honest not a big fan of the Asterians so hopefully these are sufficiently different at some point I might make an Asterian Cypher team from the Deadzone Cyphers there's a few with guantlets that will work with little conversion.
Can't see myself buying all 12 teams again (if it gets that far) still have a few of the original teams sitting in a box that I won't get around to for a good while. Convicts and Brokkrs looking good though.
I'm thinking the purple stuff in the background of the painted convicts pic might be the new asterians?
Really wish I knew the source of that pic, since it was taken a couple of weeks ago. Obviously some game convention or something that Mantic was at, but not many pics were taken.
Hmm another KS by Mantic? Not this time for me.
While they generaly can deliver on time it is often not a real saving for the backer and it's always not complete.
Still waiting for more than half my stuff of Deadzone first wave.(the stuff they wanted to deliver with the first wave)
Also the balance of the first Dreadball Seasons wasn't very good (judwan anyone) and just for the minis the quality isn't that great.
They are Forgefathers but they are scrap merchants so they fit into the whole seedy underside thing.
Forge Father Brokkrs
Brokkrs are the metal scrap merchants of Forge Father society. They aggressively excavate an area for whatever materials they can find with the aim of putting them to good use back in the Star Realm – whether that’s raw minerals or concrete foundations. They are protected on their mission by the Forge Guard, though they aren’t bad in combat themselves. Each carries a Hailstorm Pistol to defend themselves with, and their heat hammers are perfect for swatting aside pesky Plague or irritating Asterians.
xeper wrote: Hmm another KS by Mantic? Not this time for me.
While they generaly can deliver on time it is often not a real saving for the backer and it's always not complete.
Still waiting for more than half my stuff of Deadzone first wave.(the stuff they wanted to deliver with the first wave)
Also the balance of the first Dreadball Seasons wasn't very good (judwan anyone) and just for the minis the quality isn't that great.
Always incomplete? Not a real savings? I can't begin to say how cheap my BOGOs have been in comparison to buying retail. Yes, buying Deadzone teams in the KS are the same price as retail-no savings. But getting a BOGO set of teams is $2 cheaper than the best deals you can find online. Not a lot, but it adds up. Oh, and I've only had one order that was incomplete and it was solved very quickly. I don't count the dice for DZ as everyone was short, they admitted they ran out and we're getting hem next shipment. For every person that complains they had an incomplete shipment, there is an equal or greater amount of people who got their full order. Now, 50% accuracy is horrible, yes. I'm just saying your absolute of "never" is 100% wrong. That's why you should never deal in absolutes-because in an absolute, if you're the tiniest bit wrong, it makes your whole argument wrong. That's not just dealing with Mantic, that's a rule of math that just happens to apply here.
Unless you meant they aren't always complete and words are backwards due to different parts of the world. In which case I retract a majority of that statement.
Well MY orders always had been incomplete 2*pledges for Dreadball and my Deadzone pledge.
The only real savings are in the BOGO deals all other stuff you can get for the same price retail, without the risk of buying a bad gamesystem (stuff you know after release).
If i would have considered missing dice and bases i would be even below 45%^^ (only received one of two Gameboxes and the one is missing all Mercenarys some sprues of environment, well dice ,big Bases, has damaged cards...)
Dreadball i had two missing teams,some missing MVPs ,missing mini parts ... (in the end they send everything but still no good impressions)
Of course you could say it is a minority but you can read, on the KS comments, about a lot of guys with Assault/suppression who only have received one Strike team so far...(but they had enough to fullfill store Preorders...)
I still wish them the best, but two KS have been pretty bad experiences and i would think bad of myself if i would support that again. Also i love Deadzone and still have some stuff coming for 2nd survey but for now it was my last Mantic KS.
I'm in for a dollar. I really don't want a lot more timesoul time-consuming restic bringing me down, so the only reason I might increase my pledge during the survey is if they have some amazing characters for low, low prices.
Also, they had better not release any kind of EXTREME! KS without an homage to this guy:
Yeah, I don't really like the convicts either. The grogan is a nice tie-in but the deadzone grogans look a lot less derpy than that guy, and the rest of the convicts aren't superb either so far. We'll see what happens I guess
I'd jump in if they make the original board in the mouse pad material. They say that might be a stretch goal, so I hope enough people pledge to unlock that.
insaniak wrote: The convict miniatures shown don't do much to sell it... I like the idea, but if those see the minis that are going into the box, it's not for me.
Yeah, I was going to say it would be nice if the convicts catered to the fans of the most popular gang in Necromunda, but Mantic continues to disappoint.
Looking forward to more stuff but will wait until retail.
Not looking forward to stuff put out too rapidly.
The next DB expansions need to have a nice long playtest period. Don't want 15th order effects jacking up the game.
The models need the artists and manufacturing types to take their time; design the things smartly so there are minimum mold lines; take proper production time so quality control is maintained; that sort of thing.
Hello,
I guess I see the convicts as really fun penal legion members, that said I am a person who loves dwarves, so yeah, I will likely go because of them.
I wouldn't say Deadzone is 'not yet fulfilled'. The boxed game was sent before Christmas (to most), and what we're waiting on now is what was funded via stretch goals. Except for the Enforcers, which were delayed due to a material change.
I don't equate that to projects that have yet to ship anything, to anyone.
Kroothawk wrote: Are you aware of any other company, that starts a kickstarter when two previous ones are not yet fullfilled?
Are you doubting their capability of finishing those kickstarters? They seem to have a schedule and capable of keeping it.
Triple-projects seems rareish, but rolling multiple kickstarters isn't unheard of.
InXile entertainment, Double Fine Adventures & Harebrained Schemes have each 2 concurring projects that haven't finished yet.. 5 of them even got Million+ dollars in pledges.
Kroothawk wrote: Are you aware of any other company, that starts a kickstarter when two previous ones are not yet fullfilled?
Sure.
More common in Board Games than in Miniature Games, as they tend to be more smaller Kickstarters, than fewer larger ones.
Games Salute is a typical serial-kickstarter-company. They even have two separate Kickstarters running at the same time currently (and have done so before).
That said, I never received the Zzor Resin master from the Dreadball Zzor Team Naming Comp in September 2012. Guess there is technically still one miniature unfullfilled from the first DreadBall Kickstarter
scarletsquig wrote: CMoN comes off way, way worse in comparison, purely looking at fulfilment.
Mantic have never missed a stated shipping date on any KS so far.
They keep saying that like it is a good thing!
OK, while it is a good thing, Mantic slowing down and hitting quality goals would be more important than "OTD" for most people.
I do wish more companies would find the middle ground between Mantic's "On time but who knows what's in the box" approach and the "We're fine sitting on your money for an extra year+ past our estimate and maybe, MAYBE we'll tell you what we're doing with your money" model that too many gaming KSes to count employ. I wish more KS projects were like Kingdom Death I guess is what I'm saying (assuming it doesn't derail at the last mile). However, I'm sure many of the companies in that latter category wish the same thing!
Back on topic with DBX, I'm not sure this is the best timing for me. I'm interested in the project and will probably end up backing it, but due to other things coming out in the gaming world and my KS resources being quite low as a result I doubt I'll put as much into it as I may want to unless it's a long campaign and Imperial Aces takes another 2 months to hit the shelves (both of which are possibilities).
Kroothawk wrote: Are you aware of any other company, that starts a kickstarter when two previous ones are not yet fullfilled?
Um, Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division...Almost 2 years late with Relic Knights, 8-12 months late with Robotech RPG Tactics (when it ships), and they just finished a Mega-Man Boardgame, having never delivered on anything...
Kroothawk wrote: Are you aware of any other company, that starts a kickstarter when two previous ones are not yet fullfilled?
Um, Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division...Almost 2 years late with Relic Knights, 8-12 months late with Robotech RPG Tactics (when it ships), and they just finished a Mega-Man Boardgame, having never delivered on anything...
Two Years? Soda Pop Miniatures promised to deliver in February 2012, for a Kickstarter that only ran in August/September 2012. That is amazing.
Getting a bit off topic but Relic Knights is 8 months late from it's June 2013 delivery date but will most likely be a year late and other than Tentacle Bento which was cancelled SPM and Ninja Division have never run a KS they have been the creative and design arm and are responsible for some of the delays but others are responsible for the actual KS and for keeping them on time.
CMoN on the other hand still have several on the go.
I do agree that Mantic need to slow these KS down a bit they should finish Deadzone completey before doing DBX that would just leave Mars Attacks outstanding I don't see the issue with having one outstanding as they have to move forward while another project is at the point they themesleves can't do much else other than wait for production to finish. At this stage DBX doesn't need a KS just release a box set of rules, pitch etc. then a team or 2 every few months but this is how Mantic have decide to go so either back it or wait for retail there will be very little in the KS that's not available retail anyway but there were some good discounts to be had first time around particularly with the BOGOFs. I'll be in it for the base game and a few teams but nothing like I spent before.
Oh man I really kind of wanted to follow one of these kickstarter threads from the beginning but we're already doing the same mantic/kickstarter debate that shows up in every mantic thread. My kingdom for actual news and rumors and less crap =\
GrimDork wrote: Oh man I really kind of wanted to follow one of these kickstarter threads from the beginning but we're already doing the same mantic/kickstarter debate that shows up in every mantic thread. My kingdom for actual news and rumors and less crap =\
First 10 pages of any Mantic KS thread follows the same pattern, I don't think that is ever likely to change.
GrimDork wrote: Oh man I really kind of wanted to follow one of these kickstarter threads from the beginning but we're already doing the same mantic/kickstarter debate that shows up in every mantic thread. My kingdom for actual news and rumors and less crap =\
First 10 pages of any Mantic KS thread follows the same pattern, I don't think that is ever likely to change.
This is where an "ignore user in thread" option would be really handy. Some posters are fine until they, for reasons only their twisted minds can explain, go into a thread clearly marked to be about a company they dislike solely to post that they dislike said company. You see it all over Dakka with just about every company in existence, so that would be an awesome feature to add in for people who are familiar with these viewpoints and fairly well sick of them while not denying the naysayers their voice.
Has there been any rumblings about when this one would be fulfilled? If it's before the September/October timeframe that would make me a little bit leery given everything else going on with Mantic.
And is this the aforementioned button that ignores users in a particular thread and not everywhere as was being discussed? Or were you just seizing on an opportunity to be.. ah.. cute?
GrimDork wrote: Oh man I really kind of wanted to follow one of these kickstarter threads from the beginning but we're already doing the same mantic/kickstarter debate that shows up in every mantic thread. My kingdom for actual news and rumors and less crap =\
First 10 pages of any Mantic KS thread follows the same pattern, I don't think that is ever likely to change.
Then the constant complaints about faulty/missing products page after page after page of unrelenting complaints (by the same users) which are apparently news and rumours worthy. I voice my grievances then move on (yes I have done this for mantic), I've also starting using the ignore button.
I also think Mantic should slow down on these KS of theirs, get one KS completely finished then move on. Though sone people might argue if all there doing is waiting for tools and castings etc to be done then why not move on. I'm also of a mind that with Dreadball they released to many teams to fast, they should of released one season a year or a team every 3 months. At the end of this there will be what, 24 teams? That's far to many to have IMO, I also worry that they'll burn out of Dreadball in a year or so. I've said once before in one of the Mantics threads I won't be buying there Restic anymore (there larger stuff is fine but not infrantry sized), I'll back this for the exlusive Blaine figure that it's likely to come with (I did this for MA) and also a rubber Dreadball pitch if it is cheaper then getting a custom one made.
Krinsath wrote: This is where an "ignore user in thread" option would be really handy.
Maybe an "Ignore any risks" button for every kickstarter thread would do But then again, even more people would have been surprised that e.g. the Defiance Games kickstarter never delivers.
And if you read the Mantic threads you will find that a lot of people have problems with how Mantic handles the fulfillment of their numerous kickstarters. Difficult to ignore them all.
Krinsath wrote: This is where an "ignore user in thread" option would be really handy.
Maybe an "Ignore any risks" button for every kickstarter thread would do But then again, even more people would have been surprised that e.g. the Defiance Games kickstarter never delivers.
And if you read the Mantic threads you will find that a lot of people have problems with how Mantic handles the fulfillment of their numerous kickstarters. Difficult to ignore them all.
I do read Mantic threads; that's why I'm sick of the same people coming along with the same tired horses to beat and clogging up threads. I can throw out a list of four or five names just about guaranteed to be complaining every three pages of a Mantic thread. However, I'd not advocate that people who want to publicize these issues/gripes to never get their say since just because *I'm* tired of it doesn't mean their statements are worthless to someone brand-new. I also find that the "nuclear option" of the current ignore button to be ill-targeted. You, for example, provide some of the better GW rumor scouting as well as other companies. However, I also know you will provide nothing of value to me in a Mantic discussion; none of your points will be news and you don't like the company enough to be on the lookout for rumors. Similar situations exist with most of the people on the list I mentioned.
There are plenty of people who will spew bile and hated in any GW thread but then may be interesting posters about other products. Some people show up in a Raging Heroes thread to be "shamefully negative" but then have the inside track on information elsewhere. Hence where that feature would be handy; people who know can ignore without removing the person from their Dakka existence just because they disagree on a given topic. It wouldn't be perfect as every new thread I'd have to ignore the same people when they inevitably show up, but it'd cut down on the same people bickering back and forth over the same things. Having to hit that button per thread would preferable to saying "This person contributes nothing to my Dakka experience" like the current does.
This is all horribly off-topic though. I agree with overtyrant that 24 teams in 2 years is a lot. I grow concerned that distinguishing the teams on the regular pitch will be very difficult. One area Mantic has done well in is their rulesets and while it will be interesting to see if they can make that many distinct teams, I don't want it to make the game so convoluted that it stops being reasonably easy to learn.
overtyrant wrote: I also think Mantic should slow down on these KS of theirs, get one KS completely finished then move on. Though sone people might argue if all there doing is waiting for tools and castings etc to be done then why not move on. I'm also of a mind that with Dreadball they released to many teams to fast, they should of released one season a year or a team every 3 months. At the end of this there will be what, 24 teams?
25, including Martians. As long as the razor-sharp approach to balance is kept it shouldn't be a problem. I think the quantity of teams will slow down after this, maybe one per year + a new tournament pack will be the long-term support for the game after DBX has shipped. Then many years down the line they might consider a new edition of the game done in hard plastic with the rubber mat in the box. It is the direction Mantic are headed, long-term.
I rather like the huge amount of teams since it expands the background a bit more and gives you more than one way to play a certain race.
Also looking forward to seeing all kinds of new aliens introduced, I love how exotic and varied the initial 12 teams were and how interesting that made the Rebs faction in Deadzone.
Kraaw, Yndij, Sorak and Sphyr teams would be great to see, in fact the Yndij were a DB concept initially, so the odds of them appearing as a DBX team seem high.
All y'all realise you're just feeding the kroot, right?
IMO it's far more expedient to just ignore the four of five serial offenders and click "view ignored comment" (or whatever the precise wording was again) in the one or two topics where they have something of value to add. In any case, we probably ought to take this debate to nuts&bolts now, really.
If there's any crossover with Deadzone Rebs aliens at all, I'm going to be buying in just to get me some alt sculpts to convert up so I can expand my deadzone stuff into full warpath units.
Kraaw would be especially perfect, as a melee troop with a wrist blaster that looks not too much different to a DB glove, might not even need conversion (and kraaw swarms are brutal in DZ).
Ideally I'd like to have the full Rebs army painted before Mantic has even got around to releasing the WP list. Already got 100 minis for it.
It’s not always easy to know exactly how much I can say here. However, with the Mantic blog mentioning that DreadBall Xtreme was “just around the corner” the other day I don’t think anyone’s going to be surprised that I’ve been doing quite a bit on that project lately.
So far, it’s been a tricky one. Some games come easy and others less so. In general, this doesn’t seem to actually have any bearing on whether they’re any good or not when they’re finished. As long as you go through the whole process to the bitter end (and don’t just give up and release it anyway) then they can be of any quality. I’ve pondered the why of that at some length and still don’t think I entirely understand it.
Obviously I can’t go into specifics on DBX yet, but I thought I’d drop one idea into your minds. Because DreadBall is well liked as it is, the real challenge with designing DBX has not been the violence, nor the changing arena. Instead it’s been balancing doing something new and exciting against not messing up a great game. The good news is that I think this last iteration has cracked it. Some considerable changes to what I had in order to make it all more streamlined without sacrificing the depth and difference of tactical decisions. That, at least, is the plan.
Got another demo at Mantic tomorrow to see if they agree.
Fingers crossed
I think this is the first Kickstarter I've seen where it's a sequel to an existing product with known rules, but that is essentially a new set of rules in itself. The shadow lurking over many boardgames is "are the rules any good", but with this one it's going to be "are they any better/different enough to justify a new product".
I would like to say something along the lines of "Oh god Scarlet, what have you done" but I think it would ring hollow due to my own recent vanity project.
My Azure Forrest came yesterday. Haven't had a chance to really go through it but it looks decent. It will be interesting to see how all the Dread Ball elements mix when Extreme comes out.
I don't want you to sign it I want the guy that drew it- lol.
So for those of you who did the original db kick starter, if you spent over the 'sweet spot' what got you to do it? Trying to keep myself at entry level (if I end up backing).
GrimDork wrote: I don't want you to sign it I want the guy that drew it- lol.
So for those of you who did the original db kick starter, if you spent over the 'sweet spot' what got you to do it? Trying to keep myself at entry level (if I end up backing).
I managed to rack up $500+ on the first one basically Striker plus complete season 1,2 and 3, Acrylic pitch, 4 Giants a few paid for MVPs, Cheerleaders, Coaches printed rulebooks bases it adds up fairly quickly.
The Season deals were very good value but 8 of the teams are still sitting in a box (and I doubt my Veer-myn, Zees, Asterians will ever be painted or see a pitch) so I think I'll go for 4 max this time and really most of the extra miniatures never get used. The pitch is really nice but has to many separate parts so it doesn't get used anymore. I really hope they do the original pitch on the rubber material.
No regrets about the spend but it was one of my earlier KS and I'm alot more savvy about what I buy now. If I was to do it again I'd back Striker with 2 other teams on the BOGOf deals (still don't like the veer-myn sculpts the other 3 are great) . 1 Giant in addition to the free one. No coaches or cheerleaders they are basically just fancy counters. Wouldn't bother with the printed books (use a tablet) or the acrylic pitch. Prone markers are nice but you can just lay the model on it's side. Never really use keepers and a guard could stand in if needs be. Hex bases are still a must in my opinion - the models look odd without them but you can get by without them. I'd still pick up all the MVPs that are paid extras as they are a bit of fun and a nice change of pace.
I've set aside $250 for DBX if in can spend less I will I'm not looking to spend all of that if I can avoid it.
GrimDork wrote: I'm not adverse to the concept of space murder football, maybe this version will be 20% more fatal?
Will have to see how the teams work and what they're planning for the more brutal/aggressive gameplay.
Oh goodie... now my Judwan will be even more likely to be killed outright. :-p
Maybe they'll let them start using the mind substance again and increase their Speed stat again----since Extreme is already supposed to be seamy any way.
GrimDork wrote: I'm not adverse to the concept of space murder football, maybe this version will be 20% more fatal?
Will have to see how the teams work and what they're planning for the more brutal/aggressive gameplay.
Oh goodie... now my Judwan will be even more likely to be killed outright. :-p
Maybe they'll let them start using the mind substance again and increase their Speed stat again----since Extreme is already supposed to be seamy any way.
I would be ok with that. The wife predominantly plays Marauders, so our Leagues usually end up with her outright killing my team into submission. Any way I could have a bit better odds would be appreciated.
I've gotta say, DB has been a masterfully balanced game, but, as with any "sport" some match-ups are just rough for certain teams.
Kroothawk wrote: Will all previous Mantic kickstarters be completely fullfilled when the new one starts?
Oh god. Don't say gak like that, Kroot. I just got up off the floor. I think I broke something internal.
I'll probably go in on this for a buck, just in case there's something worthwhile later, but I don't foresee taking it any higher. Now I have to go to the hospital.
GrimDork wrote: Oh man I really kind of wanted to follow one of these kickstarter threads from the beginning but we're already doing the same mantic/kickstarter debate that shows up in every mantic thread. My kingdom for actual news and rumors and less crap =\
First 10 pages of any Mantic KS thread follows the same pattern, I don't think that is ever likely to change.
Oh! Is this where I should talk about "fake targets" and "fake stretch goals"? I was going to wait until we saw the models. Or not bother at all, actually.
CptJake wrote: My Azure Forrest came yesterday. Haven't had a chance to really go through it but it looks decent. It will be interesting to see how all the Dread Ball elements mix when Extreme comes out.
In case you're looking for it (because Azure Forest reportedly refers you to it), there is no advancement table for Season 3.
In SEP, it was confirmed in the DB FAQ that S3 had no advancement table on purpose.
AF owners say it refers you to using that non-existent table any way.
I have no problems with Mantic running another KS before I get the second half of Deadzone or MA. Video games and software in general is something I know better than tabletop games, but I'm pretty sure the development process has similar issues. You have designers, artists, testers, production etc. If you wait until one game is fully finished until you start the next, you have a substantial portion of your team doing nothing which is silly. If it was a risky company - Defiance/Defiant? The Maelstrom guy, a no name group, anything like that sure you'd probably not even go in for a second until you got your stuff from the first. Mantic has also made big improvements in quality so hopefully that trend will continue.
I love me some Dreadball and I'm miffed I missed the first KS, so given it looks good I'll likely go in heavily for all the teams etc.
GrimDork wrote: I don't want you to sign it I want the guy that drew it- lol.
So for those of you who did the original db kick starter, if you spent over the 'sweet spot' what got you to do it? Trying to keep myself at entry level (if I end up backing).
I wanted some extra teams, simple as that! So I got the entire S2 wave, and mildly regretted not getting the Teratons. I also ordered a ton of Hex bases (I really really think that Mantic should have included these with each model!), reasoning that I could use them for future models supplied without bases, to create new Dreadball teams, or even just as see-through bases for other Mantic models. Didn't bother with keepers, prones, coaches etc., or even the upgraded pitches.
Thing is, aside from the special characters, Dreadball isn't that expensive to just buy stuff as you want it at retail. A team costs ~£12.50 from online retailers, and comes with a nice box, cover art and bases. On the Kickstarter, this was instead £7.75 per team for just a bag - a decent saving, but you had to buy them two at a time, pay for extra bases (and storage if you cared about that) and were running the risk of varying sculpt quality.
I was ordering through a friend's pledge, and he nearly murdered me over all of the sorting and parts checking he had to do...
Good to see them launching another Kickstarter so soon after completely fulfilling the Mars Attacks Kickstarter.
What do you mean they haven't finished the Mars Attacks one yet? Oh, ok. Then what I meant was after fulfilling the Deadzone Kicksta... nope? They're not done with that one yet? Ok, then the last Dreadba... not that one either? Wow. Hmm... maybe they should finish what they start before moving onto something else.
And given that Mantic couldn't even get the core components for the Deadzone box ready by the time they shipped, I think I'll be avoiding this one.
GrimDork wrote: So for those of you who did the original db kick starter, if you spent over the 'sweet spot' what got you to do it? Trying to keep myself at entry level (if I end up backing).
In my case it's because I'm a completionist; if I add a unit to a 40k army I pick up the maximum squad size even if I don't intend to ever field a full unit "just in case" I ever wanted to do so. The upgraded pitches are nice looking, and since I had two pitches having two decks of cards made sense too (see also: completionist). I think the only thing I didn't get from the "core models" perspective was the big ape and the coaches. The models didn't interest me that much and I didn't see where I'd be missing out by not getting those given that I had 3 Giants already.
For DreadBall getting the double teams had the added advantage of giving me some extra models per team that I could monkey around with trying out color schemes. If I don't like the scheme once it's on the model or I botch stripping the paint from just a plain bad job or heaven forbid I lose one in the mountain of models around my house, it really need not matter since I had a couple spares. I also liked the concept of most of the teams, and for the most part was not disappointed. Some models I'm not a huge fan of (Nameless Striker, I'm looking at you), but overall I like all the teams well enough.
I do agree that not including the bases outside of Season 1 was somewhat aggravating, especially as some of the later teams really need the extra stability. Not like the bases were radically expensive, but it does call into question whether you're getting as good of a deal if you have to factor that in with the lack of boxes for later transport and the risk of "how are these going to turn out?" that comes with any KickStarter.
I feel I've gotten a decent deal out of the original, so I'll probably be backing this one just because I like the game. How much depends on how the individual teams appeal to me and if they seem like their distinct enough to be their own thing rather than the equivalent of a re-skin in a video game.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Ok, then the last Dreadba... not that one either?
As a point of fact, the original DreadBall kickstarter has seen all its shipments go out. While you might be choosing to take "finished" as "all backers have all issues possible resolved" which your omission of LOKA and Kings of War makes unlikely, the overall fulfillment is complete and has been since before DeadZone shipped. Cold comfort if Mantic is taking its sweet time to replace missing/broken/miscast bits, but they only have two outstanding KSes at the moment, with neither one currently delayed nor scheduled for activity until the summer.
I don't disagree that they should slow down their pace and stop making stupid mistakes, but there's no need to exaggerate reality. It just belittles the valid points you have when you do that.
GrimDork wrote: Thing is, aside from the special characters, Dreadball isn't that expensive to just buy stuff as you want it at retail. A team costs ~£12.50 from online retailers, and comes with a nice box, cover art and bases. On the Kickstarter, this was instead £7.75 per team for just a bag - a decent saving, but you had to buy them two at a time, pay for extra bases (and storage if you cared about that) and were running the risk of varying sculpt quality.
I don't mean to gloat, but I've bought all the teams I wanted via online retail for £9 (there's always a 40-50% discount lurking around somewhere if you're patient enough).. once you factor in the bases, case, mantic point and being able to see the sculpts first, I'm fairly happy with that. KS exclusives are nice to have, though.
Always be cautious with KS purchases, especially before the final survey if there's no sculpts/renders or you're curious about how the retail prices will pan out.
Striker was still a great deal though, just for all those free MVPS, that added a great big chunk of extra value.
There are some things I hope improve with DBX... the acrylic counters for starters, the deadzone ones are crap, not worth the $20 I spent, barely visible, wildly off-centre icons, just a total half-arsed job from whoever their supplier was. would have been better off painting icons on to a set of tiddlywinks.
scarletsquig wrote: There are some things I hope improve with DBX... the acrylic counters for starters, the deadzone ones are crap, not worth the $20 I spent, barely visible, wildly off-centre icons, just a total half-arsed job from whoever their supplier was. would have been better off painting icons on to a set of tiddlywinks.
My DB ones are fine and I don't recall hearing anyone bitching about their quality, did they change supplier for DZ?
Huh. I really like the mantic cases. Can fit 20 or maybe 25 minis in there if you squeeze. I dunno about paying 4-5 dollars for a solo mantiic case, but they definitely add value to any purchase which includes one.
I feel like they should let Dreadball consolidate its position for a year or two before adding any more rules or gimmicks. People can become burnt out on a game that changes faster than they can master or even learn it.
I am inclined to agree. It also risks splitting the playbase a little to early.
I think team releases would have been better a little slower to keep people talking and buying new things for the game instead of having so much released instantly. For big wargames where you collect lots of models everything quickly is the way to go but I think for games where you pretty much pick up a team and can play slow additions are probably better.
I could get behind that reasoning. Put out so many teams. Start deploying a new team every month or two or three... whatever works, and people who like the aesthetics/rules they bring will feel obligated to pick them up, but they won't really be burning too much to do so. Kind of like if they had released deadzone with no booster models whatsoever, and waited half a year (or even 3 months) to deploy the various booster sets currently going up for preorder. You'd be eager for something new, and the price point doesn't exactly break the bank in the same way as a new army, or a new play style (including the need for new pitch, rulebook etc).
Still, I missed dreaball, so I * may* go in here. Maybe. I may throw too much money at the DZ second survey, I'll probably have that sorted in the next couple of weeks if I don't die under a pile of plastic/restic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just listened to the latest podcast. Some interesting bits about nexus psi and dreadball xtreme in there. It kind of sounds like while you'll start out with a team that's all from the same faction, you can buy any player with enough credits so there may be some variance (terraton on the asterian team) or something like that. Could be pretty cool.
I missed the first one (just barely though, and couldn't talk Barzam into splitting it with me), and have generally enjoyed the Mantic "almost."
That new render looks pretty neat, and right up my alley. More weird armored stuff like that, and I may even be able to talk Barzam into playing. No idea what it is or who it's for though.
I like the idea of customizable teams. I know that was a big hangup for my family members as they like to mix things up and not be tied down to one specific type of figure.
Is this still set to launch this week? I haven't had many kickstarters to get too worked up over in the last few months.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I feel like they should let Dreadball consolidate its position for a year or two before adding any more rules or gimmicks. People can become burnt out on a game that changes faster than they can master or even learn it.
What he said.
I will probably get in to dreadball sooner or later, but still feel that this release is to quick.
I like the new releases. I think fleshing out the universe/game as early as possible - so long as quality is maintained - will help consolidate it as a large contender in the field, and make further inroads against the already established Blood Bowl. Dreadball Extreme is also an expansion that 1. offers a new gameplay type with the new board with scatter terrain, but 2. also just adds new teams to the basic game. So, the basic game being unchanged other than the addition of new teams should be good overall as more variety is always nice imo.
The 3 different Dreadball game types gives a great amount of replayability and options to the Dreadball game too. You can choose to play the basic one, if ou have lots of players you can play the 3-6 player one, or if you have more advanced players you can play the more "extreme" one. I think it's pretty much perfect tbh.
The addition of DBX takes nothing from the original. All, of course, given similar quality rules and balancing. I do not see how anything is taken away from the game.
p.s. Hard to tell much from that render so I can't really comment on it.
I'll definitely be looking into it. After ordering deadzone, I'm not sure I ever want to go as heavily into any one kickstarter as I did that one... but maybe the entry level or sweet spot for this would be acceptable.
GrimDork wrote: I'll definitely be looking into it. After ordering deadzone, I'm not sure I ever want to go as heavily into any one kickstarter as I did that one... but maybe the entry level or sweet spot for this would be acceptable.
What about your order are you regretting in particular? I went in heavy (~$1100?) and think it will all come in handy for Deadzone and for other games for a long time to come. That price would get you a GW army if you're lucky... I got 6, enough terrain for a 6x4 board and heaps more cool stuff. Yeah, you need to really be sure you want what you're ordering, but I think Deadzone value was superb.
It was, I'm just mad that I got it two whole months late, didn't get any suave extras like one of the guys promised, and am still missing 8 or more accessory sprues (which is technically like 16+ frames lol), the two metal mercs, and the entire fugging rebs booster bundle. I wouldn't be sore about not getting bonus freebies if they hadn't mentioned it, and I'm only really sore about the rebs bundle since it kind of gimps that faction compared to the other two. Give me a week or so to settle into the afterglow of having this much cool stuff to play with and I'll probably be all happy and stuff again.
I'm liable to dump another 2-300 on the survey for the zombies, peacekeepers, all of the cool antennocitis stuff I skipped the first time, and a few packs of the striders now that they're such a good deal Just miffed today is all
If I do go into this KS though, I did get a cool Wyn Greth'sky or whatever, so at least they spotted me a limited edition DB figure
Ahh so you got some pretty bad mispacks and other non standard delays? Delays on KS's and mispacks don't bother me in the slightest so long as they're sorted within a few months, but I can see why they would bother you or others. I've lucked out and gotten basically perfect kickstarter deliveries every time, with the worst being the by now 1 year late Dreamforge stuff. But the quality of that stuff makes me not care in the slightest, especially given my huge backlog.
I was only missing a couple terrain sprues and the lower half of the marauder doggies in my Deadzone, but I'm happy for them to arrive with wave 2 shipping.
Pretty damn jelly of the ltd ed DB figure since I missed the KS and *really* want every. single. ltd ed mini ; p
No, technically everything that should be there, is there. The order is two months late because they missed it when shipping and then ran out of stuff, that isn't such a big deal really. I haven't gone into the baggies, but I have at least enough of each. On my shipping invoice most things are ticked off, and a few spots have an "owe" after them in red ink, like they were not available when they were packing the box or something. I think they packed the box very well, and everything that was meant to go into it did... they just didn't put everything into it on purpose.. for some reason. Potentially being out... though the whole point of me getting it this late was so it would be in stock so they could send it. Tad confused :p
I'm not really mad at anybody, and I waited pretty patiently for my two months. The only thing that's got me in a somewhat foul mood is the missing rebs models, 'cause that faction will suffer for however long it takes to get them in. Also, i was promised extras that did not manifest. I didn't need extras, but when you tell me I get a bag of chips for waiting too long for my sandwich, don't forget the fuggin chips!
Yeah, plus he's a not-Geth, so pretty damn neat of a mini
Monopose low quality plastic sadly from what I recall of it. But thanks for pointing it out. Multi part plastic posable zealots, marines, templar... my god... I've seen some terran marine, zealot and zerg conversions from mostly 40k stuff which I'm very tempted to try, but I'd love a proper range.
Protoss Dreadball team kgo! I'm still working on my DFG Eisenkern team ; ) Speaking of which, having all these new teams coming out will give more opportunity for counts-as, converting other ranges to be used with Dreadball now that there will be more team rules available to use.
There was a Starcraft minis game in development, I think it was Paulson talking about in the Robotech thread. It died a slow and painful death caught between the designer, Blizzard and someone else as figures needed constant approval and reapproval, and managers took weeks and months to email back asking for minor changes instead of days.
I also hope it isn't buggered up like some of the others. If I remember correctly, Dreadball and Mars Attacks both launched about an hour after the counter had expired.
I *think* the times in the title are accurate, they seem to make sense anyway, catching the UK on their lunch break and the US in the early morning, hopefully leaving people able to turn on their phone and nab an early bird at some point.
Based on what Ronnie has been saying, this might be a short KS too, 3-4 weeks.. they weren't too happy about the 2 weeks of stalling and sliding backwards that Mars Attacks went through.
scarletsquig wrote: I also hope it isn't buggered up like some of the others. If I remember correctly, Dreadball and Mars Attacks both launched about an hour after the counter had expired.
I *think* the times in the title are accurate, they seem to make sense anyway, catching the UK on their lunch break and the US in the early morning, hopefully leaving people able to turn on their phone and nab an early bird at some point.
Based on what Ronnie has been saying, this might be a short KS too, 3-4 weeks.. they weren't too happy about the 2 weeks of stalling and sliding backwards that Mars Attacks went through.
Wonderful, really nice way to show you've learnt from your mistakes, I'm sure everyone gave the reason of this kickstarter ran too long as the reason they dropped their MA pledge.
I really want to see what's on offer before I finalize that Mars Attack survey.
Not sure if I want a Martian dreadball team or not. If I don't go in on Extreme, no need for them (and I'll just get another batch of giant bugs instead).
If Extreme looks promising enough from the get go, I guess the Martians will have to be on hand for a bit of the ultra violence then.
scarletsquig wrote: Based on what Ronnie has been saying, this might be a short KS too, 3-4 weeks.. they weren't too happy about the 2 weeks of stalling and sliding backwards that Mars Attacks went through.
Yeah this was expected, the extra time for MA certainly didn't help,
Hmm interesting I wonder if the scoring zones are going to be some sort of overlay so they can be placed in different positions they are clearly visible on Jake's test board and he said they wouldn't be changing the scoring zones themselves.
The pitch should be a mousepad type think that was confirmed in that podcast interview.
The the rubber material mats are 2 feet by 2 feet the pitch looks to be a good bit smaller so they filled the surround with info and card pile holders hopefully they do the same for the original pitch I don't think they can do 2'x1' mats at least not as cost effectively as 2'x2'
scarletsquig wrote: I also hope it isn't buggered up like some of the others. If I remember correctly, Dreadball and Mars Attacks both launched about an hour after the counter had expired.
I *think* the times in the title are accurate, they seem to make sense anyway, catching the UK on their lunch break and the US in the early morning, hopefully leaving people able to turn on their phone and nab an early bird at some point.
Based on what Ronnie has been saying, this might be a short KS too, 3-4 weeks.. they weren't too happy about the 2 weeks of stalling and sliding backwards that Mars Attacks went through.
Wasn't a big part of the stalling and sliding due to any Deadzone backers having not been shown sculpts of the models they had paid for and not felt confident backing another mantic kick starter unseen?
Partly that yes I know I didn't put nearly as much into MA as I could have because of the DZ situation. Also they made a big mistake with the weekend limited Bloodshed on the Battlefield offer a lot of people held their Invaders EB pledge and pledged for BotB as well on a second account then they dropped one or the other in droves causing several days of backslides.
The BotB kind of pre-loaded the final rush to the mid-point. Not necessarily a bad idea in theory, but the reality of it worked against them with the stall and backslide. Hopefully they keep this campaign to 21-28 days, and if they do anything big bits like that they're in the last week to lead up to the final couple of days. Since nothing is charged until the campaign closes, I'll probably pick up an early bird "sweet spot" pledge level and see if they can convince me to keep (or even upgrade) it.
Right, the biggest issue is that they had two limited and high-value pledge levels (EB Invaders Arrive and BOTB) offering different advantages, meaning that people who wanted to give themselves the most options or were unsure about how much they wanted to spend just sat on both, ditching at least one towards the end of the campaign. I really don't think it was a function of length, although there is something to be said for momentum!
Mr.Church13 wrote: OOOOH, Please let that board be on mousepad. That was the best thing that Ultimate did.
Confirmed. A rubber mat for regular dreadball will also be a stretch goal. Agree that the material is perfect.
I think a shorter Kickstarter will help keep momentum going a bit better... nobody likes it when the campaign is dragging or stalling and they just want to get on with it and finalize their pledge rather than wait around for weeks.
Mars Attacks wasn't too tedious for me, but only because I went on holiday for a week right during the slowest part of the KS.
Also, "sight unseen" theories.. had bugger all to do with Mars Attacks since renders were available for pretty much everything during that campaign, immediately.
I would not be surprised to see a full 8 teams already sculpted/ painted for DBX at this point, with very little being left at concept art.
I just noticed that I'm going to be sitting in an airport when this launches... Hopefully my KS app on my phone will be able to get in for an EB pledge, and that Mantic isn't slow in launching this or I'll be in the air.
One thing is clear from that video - Mantic are now paying professionals to create their promotional videos. Compare the voice-over in the Dreadball Extreme video to the one used to introduce the Deadzone KS promotional video. The first one sounds like an actor whose main line of work is recording movie trailers, the second one sounds like Bob from the local game store.
It's evolutionary progress and definitely the right move, but I'm actually a little sad to see it. I admit I was surprised and slightly amused by the homemade quality of the Deadzone video - a promotional video for a Kickstarter that topped a million dollars, no less - but I also found its rough edges charming in a way. They reminded me that Mantic is essentially a small bunch of scrappy people who love what they're doing and are still finding their way.
... DBX will not be resin plastic/hard plastic (and won't be metal and resin like Guild Ball) and the teams and MVPs will come assembled, with one or two exceptions...
so no more sticking hands to models... or codpieces,
That's an interesting rumor about not fiddling around with figures.
I noticed there's a set of rules in PDF form on the original kickstarter page. Went and downloaded them to take a look at things.
I figure if I can explain them to the kids, and they can understand it and not be annoyed at me (which they tend to be in rule heavy games), then we've got a winner.
Heck, I went and checked out the rules for Kings of War finally, and it floored me how easy it would be to play.
Totally happy if that's the case, my Loka pieces are lovely* and single-piece coloured is so much better, you can just unbox and play, no mucking about with tiny grey bags of tiny grey bits first... definitely the way to go for board games in future.
*There were a few warped bits, but you can just throw them into hot water and they un-warp into their original position by themselves, the plastic has a lot more memory to it than restic.
Vaguely intrigued. I know I don't have to order 40lbs lol, probably never will again, but even the sweet spot pledge is daunting after the slow winter. Looking forward to watching this unfold though for sure.
I care not what materials the minis are made of, just as long as every backer of Dreadball XTREME recieves a bag of Doritos and a soft drink of their choice in 80s packaging.
Mr.Church13 wrote: OOOOH, Please let that board be on mousepad. That was the best thing that Ultimate did.
Confirmed. A rubber mat for regular dreadball will also be a stretch goal. Agree that the material is perfect.
I think a shorter Kickstarter will help keep momentum going a bit better... nobody likes it when the campaign is dragging or stalling and they just want to get on with it and finalize their pledge rather than wait around for weeks.
Mars Attacks wasn't too tedious for me, but only because I went on holiday for a week right during the slowest part of the KS.
Also, "sight unseen" theories.. had bugger all to do with Mars Attacks since renders were available for pretty much everything during that campaign, immediately.
I would not be surprised to see a full 8 teams already sculpted/ painted for DBX at this point, with very little being left at concept art.
There is a huge difference between renders and final sculpts. People were worried that the final sculpts in Deadzone would end up poor because mantic were still yet to show any production models. Other people felt that mantic were personally holding back the sculpts until the end of mars attacks because they were poor.
I didn't agree with it personally and didn't back mars attacks anyway but many people expressed those views here and elsewhere. I am not saying they were the biggest factor but they were certainly a factor with people hear saying they had pulled their pledges for exactly those reasons.
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nkelsch wrote: Wait... Did I read this right? Is Dreadball going the way of the 'board game' and shipping with pre-assembled models?
I have noticed a lot of KS (and general products too) have customerbase which feels "anything played on a board needs to come pre-assembled'
As a modeler and wargamer, it always 'grinds my gears' but of course I understand the position.
I am not opposed to it, especially if it addresses some of the mold line/sprue damage issues but that has got to impact costs per model...
Its not a bad tactic partially when you are selling something to be playable right out of the box.
Confirmed. A rubber mat for regular dreadball will also be a stretch goal. Agree that the material is perfect.
Seeing as a dreadball mat/board is the only thing I don't have, this is great news for me.
On the one-piece minis thing - this seems a good idea, especially as its a way to get more people into the game. If they;re still doing extra teams and team boosters as multi-part model kits, it totally sits fine with me
As a prospective first time buyer, the less I need to build, the sooner it would actually see play.
Coming from someone in a nongamer marriage, finished single pieces are less of an obstacle to convince the wife to play. She usually wants nothing to do with multi piece figures (read: skirmish/ wargames), but is usually cool about board games with figures.
Makes me wonder if further teams would be one piece as well, or the usual hobbyist put them together yourself type.
Doubly so for multihex or larger figures.
One of the big clinchers for me is if I'm going to get to field teams of whatever random schlubs want to join in, and not just in MVP roles. I truly hope we see some real motley teams of players.
Maybe the shark dudes from the rebs will show up with a few token players, and not just as porters of ammunition?
Apparently the sphyr end up in pleasureatoriums a lot, maybe they'll share outfits with that asterian. I'd still paint everything so single piece colored only saves me assembly but I guess it wouldn't hurt m feelings either.
GrimDork wrote: Apparently the sphyr end up in pleasureatoriums a lot, maybe they'll share outfits with that asterian. I'd still paint everything so single piece colored only saves me assembly but I guess it wouldn't hurt m feelings either.
Yeah, but don't you have like a million deadzone pieces to deal with still?
One piece or not, I'd probably be more inclined to paint stuff for a boardgame (as opposed to a skirmish style game) when the pieces stand out and are more unique. That's why I'm really hoping to see hodge podge teams of various races, reb style. After the 3rd or 4th samey type figure I start getting those ADHD compulsions and want to move on to paint something else.
^Kind of why I'm having trouble doing entire armies of anything lately. Heck, I got the 46 model corporation army set and I had to switch schemes halfway through. Partially why deadzone appeals so much with the smaller teams.
And i do have a million deadzone pieces to deal with. They may sit me down and talk me out of this one altogether, we'll just have to see
Hm, this really feels to much too fast too soon, and I'm not really inclined to spend more on Dreadball before they finish shipping me the Dreadball stuff they already owe me from the last campaign.
Ronnie's doing a pre KS DBX facebook chat at 19:30 GMT tonight
Want to find out all about DreadBall Xtreme eighteen hours before the campaign goes live on Kickstarter? Ronnie will be here on Facebook to answer all your questions and spill the beans at 7:30pm GMT - that's in just over two and a half hours.
Ronnie's forays into Facebook never fail to draw a huge crowd and entertain the masses - make sure you don't miss out!
I don't do the facebook thing (just read the odd companies public pages) so can someone ask about the scatter terrain (Hard plastic like DZ etc.) and original pitch on rubber mat if they are on thanks - oh and Sorak team any chance?
Here's a pretty important one from someone on Facebook, that might be worth chiming in for the guys who are still having major ongoing issues.
Hi Ronnie. Apologies if this sounds like a moan. It isn't, it's a genuine question. What would you say to all the potential backers who have concerns about backing yet another Kickstarter, when there are people who still haven't had their issues from 3 Kickstarters ago resolved? Myself and many others feel that this really is the area where Mantic are letting themselves down and could really improve
Hi *****INTERNETPERSON*****, I take that on board and I agree it is the one area where I think we are still behind. We have increased the warehouse team from 3 this time last year to 6 now, and gone from none to 2 in customer service so we are trying to get on top of this. There is almost no one who has not had most of their kickstarter and one of the things that we didn't appreciate is how complex picking these was. DeadZone in particualr was a backward step from Dreallball. However, we are almost totally upto date on this - and will have 6 month before this is shipping. Please let me know what has gone wrong (post it here if you want ) and I will look into it directly tomorrow and message you back. I am really sorry we have not been good enough. I know you are in the minority 0- but that doesn't help you! thansk also for being patient with us.
Well, the simple option would be to go reply to the thread. This is the perfect opportunity, I think.
Here's some more tidbits.
the crowd have a much bigger effect on this game, they are up to their own dirty tricks, there was a pitch invasion in at one point - not sure if it still is - but it is a kickstarter - so i am sure if everyone shouts loud enough...
"Any chance the minis will be hard plastic? "
we are looking at using the same material as we used fro Loka and Mars Attacks - both times the detail is really sharp and we will have them already assembled for you. We will have a video showing off the MArs attacks martians so you can see the detail. We did not use hard plastic or restic because there is little variety in weapons and arms - certainly my Forge Father team just went to together in the set way - so I thought that if that was the case we could - but they still paint up really well. just do that for people so they can play right out of the box
"Will there be Yndij and psychic space jellyfish (Chovar) teams?"
We have 12 teams that would be possible if we can go high enough, there are a few favourites from Deadzone - and a few very exciting new ones too. Not sure there is a Yndig though but the Chovar is in the game as a Free Agent! Yippee!
"Will there be interaction with terrain or are these terrainpieces only obstacles?"
interaction and obsticles is the current plan. The obsticle bit was fairly easy but developing interactive scenery (and traps) took a while - I think we have cracked it through - an exploding crate with 6 strength 4 slam anyone?
"I've noticed a general feeling from the announcement of the Dreadball Extreme kickstarter as a bit 'too much too soon.' - And, to be honest, I'm inclined to agree. Between backing Deadzone and the first Dreadball, I myself still have another 40(!) Dreadball season 3 minis to assemble, 20 odd Rebs left still to work on. With the Deadzone second survey currently out now, is there not a concern that the customers (and their wallets!) may be suffering from kickstarter fatigue. I know that I, for one, am struggling to even rationalise going for whatever the 'Jack' equivalent is in Extreme, whereas before I went for both the Strike Team and Striker pledge levels."
we recognize that and know it is tough because we don't want to be too ambitious and try and ask people to overspend. We have also set the payemnt date on survey 2 out in May to give everyone a bit more time to shffle their finances. on the other hand I turn down about 20 ideas for everyone we do! We are going to try and aim for about 3 a year - some big and some smaller and expect that people will be picky about which ones they go in - or maybe they go in deeper on some than others. This is one of the big ones for this year (if not the biggest) and it will be November before you get it - so you'll be desperate for new models by then - perhaps it could be your own Christmas present to yourself?"
I'm not brave enough to address the Mantic, almost? point. - Anyone else?
The Loka material is really good, nice single-piece coloured plastic, no messing around, can put them on the board and start playing right away.
And because they're single-piece there's only one mould line to deal with rather than loads of them across loads of tiny parts.
I hope Mantic switches to the material 100% for board game stuff like this and simply makes sure that there's loads of different sculpts. The 10 different martian and human sculpts in mars attacks was certainly enough variety for me.
I think they might have just drawn me back in to at least a $100 pledge. I'm a sucker for a game that I don't feel like I *have* to paint, and it is just really nice to know that I won't be dealing with restic on this one.
DBX is sounding great so far, if they nail scenery, traps and crowd involvement it could be a blast.
I'm a huge fan of multi-part posable plastic, but I'd probably prefer single piece loka material to multi-part non-posable restic since the multi-part doesn't help, just makes more work making the joins smooth. I need to finish my Eisenkern team so I have the best of both worlds. Dreadball rules with beautiful multi part plastics ; p
Compel wrote: Here's a pretty important one from someone on Facebook, that might be worth chiming in for the guys who are still having major ongoing issues.
Hi Ronnie. Apologies if this sounds like a moan. It isn't, it's a genuine question. What would you say to all the potential backers who have concerns about backing yet another Kickstarter, when there are people who still haven't had their issues from 3 Kickstarters ago resolved? Myself and many others feel that this really is the area where Mantic are letting themselves down and could really improve
Hi *****INTERNETPERSON*****, I take that on board and I agree it is the one area where I think we are still behind. We have increased the warehouse team from 3 this time last year to 6 now, and gone from none to 2 in customer service so we are trying to get on top of this. There is almost no one who has not had most of their kickstarter and one of the things that we didn't appreciate is how complex picking these was. DeadZone in particualr was a backward step from Dreallball. However, we are almost totally upto date on this - and will have 6 month before this is shipping. Please let me know what has gone wrong (post it here if you want ) and I will look into it directly tomorrow and message you back. I am really sorry we have not been good enough. I know you are in the minority 0- but that doesn't help you! thansk also for being patient with us.
That was me!
Well played to Ronnie for fronting up and answering the question, would have been easy for him to duck the questions he didn't want to answer
I'll be counting down in thread title and already have two accounts poised to nab early birds (not sure if I want the $100 or $150 yet, will grab both for now and decide later).
Is it just me, or does it look like the only thing that's different between the $150 and $350 pledge levels, is that the $350 is listed as potentially getting more stretch goals?
Yonan wrote: Is it just me, or does it look like the only thing that's different between the $150 and $350 pledge levels, is that the $350 is listed as potentially getting more stretch goals?
Yeah, I'm not seeing a big difference yet either. I'm sure they will show more, but it seems you're kind of taking a leap of faith as it stands.
Yonan wrote: Is it just me, or does it look like the only thing that's different between the $150 and $350 pledge levels, is that the $350 is listed as potentially getting more stretch goals?
I guess the "majority" of addons will only be "free" for the 350$ pledge.
But they need AT LEAST 200$ of "free" addons to make it worthwhile.
Yeah, that's the only difference at the moment. $200 KS-dollars worth of stretch goals. I foresee a whole lot of $8-15 MVP models that may or may not be the same as the KS price when they hit full RRP...
Phwew, thought I was missing something hehe. I'll stay in for $350, Mantic is good at throwing bucket fulls of value at you. Just hope it doesn't end up with another backslide like Mars Attacks.
It would have been the thread titled Q&A that has loads of people writing on it... In any case, it's a bit late now, considering it happened last night.
In any case, it was a clever / sneaky move from mantic, to have loads of people going 'Well, I'm interested, only for the smaller one' to instead released two early birds, with a medium one and a HUGE one.
It's also interesting that they've doubled the startup cash, yet it looks like they're well on their way to funding it in the same amount of time Deadzone did, for half the money.
Yet, I imagine this would be the less popular game.
The KS are getting more moderat. That's a fact. In the early days, you got like 93849238423% of stuff for free. Now the companies are a bit more... careful what they give away.
Compel wrote: It would have been the thread titled Q&A that has loads of people writing on it... In any case, it's a bit late now, considering it happened last night.
In any case, it was a clever / sneaky move from mantic, to have loads of people going 'Well, I'm interested, only for the smaller one' to instead released two early birds, with a medium one and a HUGE one.
It's also interesting that they've doubled the startup cash, yet it looks like they're well on their way to funding it in the same amount of time Deadzone did, for half the money.
Yet, I imagine this would be the less popular game.
Great thing about kickstarters launching at this time is it's our evening, we can grab an EB then go to sleep and wake up to a bunch of stretch goals hopefully ; p
RoninXiC wrote: The KS are getting more moderat. That's a fact. In the early days, you got like 93849238423% of stuff for free. Now the companies are a bit more... careful what they give away.
Not a problem. Makes it easier to pass and not get carried away, and easier for the creators to afford the eventual package and not get carried away with too many stretch goals.
I'm not so keen on the fact that the "sweet spot" for boardgames has apparently shifted to $150+ postage. That in itself is a bit insane, and speaks to the excitement/frenzy that KS seems to instill in people. Before the inevitable 8-12 month wait for fulfilment, plus another 6-12-18 months for actual final fulfilment.
I guess I should threaten to pull my pledge if they don't finish fixing up my initial DB fulfilment before this one finishes?
Yonan wrote: Great thing about kickstarters launching at this time is it's our evening, we can grab an EB then go to sleep and wake up to a bunch of stretch goals hopefully ; p
10k to go, still going up nicely.
Its early morning here in the states. I'm looking forward to watching this climb all day.
Currently 24 minis for $150.. going to need something pretty special for this to be crazy good value.
The $400 level is also currently 24 minis, that is going to need a hell of a lot of stuff to be worth it.
I think we're all pretty much just throwing money at it and seeing what happens, but if it falls it could fall badly if they don't get enough value into that $400 level pronto.
Bit of an odd KS, this one, it's like Mars Attacks without the $125 credit in the $150 pledge.
I've updated the OP with a basic Stretch goal and pledge level list for now. will be going out in a bit so apologies if updates aren't immediate for the first stretch or two.
'Nabbed' an EB slot as is now customary for me and Mantic kickstarters. I doubt I'll hold onto it though as what's there isn't really tempting me. I'll wait and see what unlocks, comes up as add-ons etc.
Let's face it, the $150 pledge level needs a gakload more value as well. You're right though - the campaign is going to take a big hit when it gets to the end and half of those Frenzy pledges drop. it's MA all over again.
scarletsquig wrote: Currently 24 minis for $150.. going to need something pretty special for this to be crazy good value.
The $400 level is also currently 24 minis, that is going to need a hell of a lot of stuff to be worth it.
I think we're all pretty much just throwing money at it and seeing what happens, but if it falls it could fall badly if they don't get enough value into that $400 level pronto.
I thought that it looked a bit lacking in comparison to their other KS campaigns, but maybe they are learning to calm down a bit in the early days and build slowly to a blockbuster finish. Still plenty of other teams to be added. I will be watching this purely for possible Deadzone additions (if any).
Update #1 - Thank you! New Stretch Goal: Bonus Figures!
Spoiler:
Thank you! New Stretch Goal: Bonus Figures! Comment Like Wow, the DreadBall Xtreme Kickstarter is go, funding out in just 39 mins.
Thank you so much – we’ve now funded the Boxed Game, the Player Manual, the 4 New Sponsors, the customizable pitch AND Ardia Shi’lek, exclusive MVP. That’s a lot of stuff…
… but we want to give you more!
Let’s get some stretch goals on the go…
$125,000 – BONUS! Convicts and Asterians
Convict Team
Although most civilised worlds have at least one prison, the worst of the ISO’s detainees are sent to prison planets like Perestia or Radnon. It’s said that once you get a sentence on a correctional world, you’ll never leave, but that’s a rumour spread to keep the prisoners in check. There are actually dozens of ways off-world, most of which don’t take much more than a well-placed bribe.
Sometimes, though, prisoners will be made an offer before they’ve even entertained the notion of escape. They’d be crazy to turn it down. After all, everyone wants to be a DreadBall player.
Most convicts go willingly. Some assume they are being invited to play in the big leagues, little realising that their future will most likely feature a messy death in one of any number of unlicensed arenas. Others understand this risk, but go anyway; the chances of survival may be slim, but no more so than staying in a dank cell, and this way they get to be as brutal as they want without anyone stopping them. In any case, convict teams will routinely be fitted with “Assurance Devices”, more commonly known as neckweights or blast-collars. These heavy metal bands, secured around each convict’s neck before they are released to play, act as a fitting deterrent against trying to escape. They also have a secondary use; unscrupulous Sponsors will eagerly detonate players’ ADs if they think they might catch a few opposing players in the blast…
Asterian Kalyshi Team
The Asterians are one of the most ancient races in the galaxy, a noble culture of great intricacy that has plied the stars since long before mankind had even taken its first steps away from the surface of Old Earth. Their ways are baffling to most humans, and they generally do what they can to stay away from direct contact with the realms of man, although this is becoming increasingly difficult for them as the ever-expanding GCPS encroaches into their territory.
As a group, the Kalyshi vary much more than the Asterian mainstream, and their ways can seem brutal to outsiders. Theirs is a martial culture, with members of all three genders learning to fight as soon as they can walk. Now, representatives from several of their clans have begun to make themselves known on the illicit DreadBall circuit, seeing it as a fitting challenge for their greatest warriors. It is not clear whether they know of the so-called Asterian teams that have been sanctioned by the DGB, but it is unlikely that they do not. Many have speculated that one of their motivations for entering the arena is to warn the Corporations that they are aware of the sham they are perpetrating, and that their mockery will not go unpunished.
If we hit this stretch goal, we will add an additional 8 Convict Players and 8 Asterian Players to pledges of Rage ($100) and up!
You can also add the teams onto your pledge for an additional $15 each.
I wish everyone who goes into this good luck. In 2022, when I finally receive the rest of my Deadzone shipment, you'll know you're almost halfway to getting all of your Xtreme minis!
Azazelx wrote: Let's face it, the $150 pledge level needs a gakload more value as well. You're right though - the campaign is going to take a big hit when it gets to the end and half of those Frenzy pledges drop. it's MA all over again.
The middle period, typically the doldrums anyway, is going to be interesting with Frenzy (and maybe lower backers) threatening and/or actually dropping pledges if the perceived value is still not 'good enough' for each backer. A handful of drops close enough together in time could be like a pebble starting an avalanche. Of course Mantic has probably planned for this so should be able to fight it before it becomes too much of an issue. Goals shown and achieved to that point, and looking achievable will be the big tool for them. How the first Dreadball issues and Dead Zone issues have been handled up to that point will also be a big factor (Mantic, step up the customer service!) as unhappy past customers will be sure to hammer the comments section at that point.
AlexHolker wrote: Oh wonderful. The only sponsor I'd want is the Kickstarter exclusive.
I'm in the same boat, i don't care at all about Dreadball but i really like that model.
Its a shame that the postage costs for add-ons only to Australia are absolutely fethed though, apparently in Mantic's world a massive $350 box costs $25 to ship to Oz while a single $8 model somehow also magically costs $25...
15K into the 25K for the first stretch goal. Do love the first day of a KS haha.
I really like the look of the pitch and the idea of obstacles and what not. The Antenocitii resin from Deadzone would probably fit well in there too. Hmm... wonder if you could play DBX through a Deadzone terrain paintball arena style setup.
Stretch Goal smashed! That’s a whole heap of bonus figures thrown in free.
Let’s keep going shall we? How about some Free Agents!
A set of Alien and Robot Free Agents are already included in the Xtreme base game that you can mix in to your team to change its composition (we’ll show you how when the Beta Rules are released next week!) – but we want to give you more choice with four brand new varieties…
Here we go!
$150,000 – BONUS! New Free Agents If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce four new creatures and add them to the DreadBall Xtreme Boxed Game at no extra cost!
Pusk Rampager Newcomers to one of the many worlds with an indigenous Pusk population are often fooled by their stubby legs and obvious lack of depth perception into considering them harmless. They soon realize their mistake. Few have heard the enraged squeal of a charging bull-Pusk and lived to tell the tale…
Nameless Bloodsucker
Registered Nameless teams have become incredibly popular in DGB-sanctioned arenas, but the Yxaal are notably absent from their ranks. This is most likely due to their horrifying habit of snatching victims up into their tentacled mouthpieces and draining the vital fluids from their bodies. Even DreadBall fans have their limits.
Vlorox Spinpede
The Vlorox are a society of asteroid-dwelling insectoids that first came to light when Gorsch mining crews reported that their equipment was being chewed on. Although they’re not too bright, it’s not too difficult to train Vlorox Spinpedes to curl around a DreadBall and roll towards the enemy Strike Zone.
Avaran Treebeast
As the GCPS expands outwards, it has encountered intelligent life in just about every form imaginable, from the gaseous Irads of Grand Pluron to the Treebeasts of Avara. These bizarre plant-like creatures are wily hunters, easily capable of waiting motionless for days before ensnaring passing prey with their prehensile tongues.
You can also add an additional set onto your pledge for an additional $15.
Not worried about what the final value will be- Mars Attacks and Shadows of Brimstone both through buckets of junk at backers for those levels, so we'll see what happens.
Worst case I'll drop down to the 150 one.
The other big factor for me at least is what other campaigns will be rolling out soon. If Recon from Mercs ends up dropping, and CMON's Arcadia Quest which I have a feeling we'll see in the next few weeks does show up, I'll have to do some financial juggling.
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce four new creatures and add them to the DreadBall Xtreme Boxed Game at no extra cost!
Pusk Rampager Newcomers to one of the many worlds with an indigenous Pusk population are often fooled by their stubby legs and obvious lack of depth perception into considering them harmless. They soon realize their mistake. Few have heard the enraged squeal of a charging bull-Pusk and lived to tell the tale…
Very glad that they keep on expanding the Warpath/Deadzone/Dreadball universe with new races and ideas. Inevitably some will stick and catch on and others will not. But they are not going to find out without trying. A Pusk army is certainly a scary prospect, is it just a dig at the Warhammer Razorgor?
I still don't really get what Sponsors do to be honest.
It seems they made MvPs a bit more integrated into the game than in DreadBall original, which would be nice, but sponsors are just minis standing on the side of the pitch?
In Alien Streetfighter II: Deadzone Edition, sponsors are allowed to mix it up with the fighters.
Who hasn't wanted to play a fighting game with fat guys and old turtles mixing it up with criminals, evil trees, killer robots, and scantily clad alien ladies?
Well, that was quick. I skeptically pledged for $140 with no interest in the game, planning to dump it for a $25 pledge later to pick up a few items for Deadzone. So far, everything they've added on has appealed, and I'm now considering downgrading my Mars Attacks and Deadzone 2nd Survey purchases to fit my $140 Dreadball Extreme pledge in.
Either I'm becoming more of a weak-willed addict, or this is an exceptionally strong launch. And from the looks of things, there is already a fair amount on offer that should be usable in Deadzone with minimum conversion.
Hmm, don't know if I'm best pleased by the idea of a $350-$400 "pledge now for possible future stuff perhaps" level! Especially with a $50 EB-Non-EB difference.
At least Mars Attacks only did that 1) once a decent amount of stuff had already been added to the Kickstarter, and 2) used credit to make the difference between levels very clear. Also, $400 would make this one of the most expensive boardgames outside of....Shadows of Brimstone, which went even more bonkers!
Everything shown so far does look good though - will take some time to properly digest.
it's straight line like the enforcers and peacekeepers and deadzone scenery.
Asterians and FF were always resin plastic. there was a possibility to do them in hard plastic, it didn't work, so they put them back into resin plastic, as they were always intended.
Hmm. Guess that was New Kickstarter euphoria kicking in.
I'll stay at $140 for now and see what happens. I don't really need either of the two core set teams, so they'd have to add a lot. On the positive side, it doesn't look like I'll have any trouble getting at least a $25 minimum purchase for free shipping, as it's only the first day and the $15 free Agents already look promising for Deadzone use.
Good catches on the Frenzy level pledge inflation, guys; it's obviously been contributing to DB EX's fast-rising first day total, which looks set to beat all of Mantic's previous campaigns. It is going to be interesting seeing what Mantic has planned to keep Frenzy levels of interest and investment.
Vermonter wrote: Hmm. Guess that was New Kickstarter euphoria kicking in.
I'll stay at $140 for now and see what happens. I don't really need either of the two core set teams, so they'd have to add a lot. On the positive side, it doesn't look like I'll have any trouble getting at least a $25 minimum purchase for free shipping, as it's only the first day and the $15 free Agents already look promising for Deadzone use.
Good catches on the Frenzy level pledge inflation, guys; it's obviously been contributing to DB EX's fast-rising first day total, which looks set to beat all of Mantic's previous campaigns. It is going to be interesting seeing what Mantic has planned to keep Frenzy levels of interest and investment.
$375 is going to require at least 300 minis, really. There are currently 50, which leaves a lot of room for improvement.
I'd expect full teams of 16 for each of the 12 teams, really. 16x12 = 192 minis which should get people most of the way there.
I hope they do a Deadzone style get a team of your choice thing for Rampage.
This start has destroyed any idea of Kickstarter fatigue amongst Mantic fans. It also seems to show that a lot of the complaints we have seen on the delivery of previous projects, however genuine, may well have been the exception rather than the rule.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: This start has destroyed any idea of Kickstarter fatigue amongst Mantic fans. It also seems to show that a lot of the complaints we have seen on the delivery of previous projects, however genuine, may well have been the exception rather than the rule.
As if we didn't know that from a decade of constantly complaining, yet loyally buying GW customers?
I see Mantic went with the shorter 24 day campaign, hopefully it works for them cause I'd hate to see it go backwards.
Managed to get home in time to get a decent earlybird to park myself on while waiting to see how everything goes - not having backed the original DB project means I don't have a lot of the Db stuff in the way already, but also means I'm not attached to the idea just yet.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: This start has destroyed any idea of Kickstarter fatigue amongst Mantic fans. It also seems to show that a lot of the complaints we have seen on the delivery of previous projects, however genuine, may well have been the exception rather than the rule.
Or, it just shows that the Early Bird model still has people hooked... whether it can sustain it's pace is a totally different matter.
I think this may do about as well as Deadzone / Mars Attacks, though- I see no reason to think otherwise. Where it ends up doesn't really matter to me... what matters to me is if it's a quality product this time. And honestly, that remains to be seen... which is why I am not one of those pledging.
My half restic, half metal Dreadball team from their first KS pretty much guaranteed that I'd have to wait and see what they deliver here. If it's awesome, I don't mind paying more at retail to get it... but I'm not going to pay for it sight unseen (or even previewed).
I did pledge for a few Mars Attacks add-ons and that is my current "test run" for Mantic... if they hit a homerun with those, then that will be a step in the right direction. But so far, I think my best experience with them was waiting until all of their KoW kickstarter had shipped, and buying items from people who got more than they needed. I see no reason to change that strategy just to save a few bucks, and possibly be very disappointed by the end product like with the first Dreadball campaign.
I get the impression that they're going to try and add value to Frenzy through non-model stuff too. DBX has a ton of extra areas for expansion/customisation (which is presumably one of the reasons for it existing), so off the top of my head you could have things like:
- premium resin crates/strike posts
- metal or resin trophies
- MDF & Acrylic (+possibly cardboard) versions of the basic DBX pitch.
- The same for the modular versions.
- Mousemat version of the basic DB pitch.
- Hard plastic scenery, possibly modular, for the pitch and/or surrounds.
- Acrylic tokens & 'custom' dice for each team.
...all without really expanding the game beyond the core box.
I reckon they could get that to chew up a fair chunk of that $225 difference! And since I'm less interested in 'extras' in that form, it's a reason why I'll be very cautious of Frenzy initially.
True RiTides, the thing is if you do not back the KS and go the retail route there is a fair chance that you will get the initial retail releases before a lot of backers. There are certainly people with multiple "early birds" that they will drop too.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: True RiTides, the thing is if you do not back the KS and go the retail route there is a fair chance that you will get the initial retail releases before a lot of backers. There are certainly people with multiple "early birds" that they will drop too.
Interesting, I got my Kickstarter Dreadball a month before retail, or is this in reference to something else?
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: True RiTides, the thing is if you do not back the KS and go the retail route there is a fair chance that you will get the initial retail releases before a lot of backers. There are certainly people with multiple "early birds" that they will drop too.
Interesting, I got my Kickstarter Dreadball a month before retail, or is this in reference to something else?
I got my DreadBall Kickstarter about a month after retail.
I am still waiting on my Deadzone stuff, which most backers got in November and which went retail on February 14th.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: True RiTides, the thing is if you do not back the KS and go the retail route there is a fair chance that you will get the initial retail releases before a lot of backers. There are certainly people with multiple "early birds" that they will drop too.
Interesting, I got my Kickstarter Dreadball a month before retail, or is this in reference to something else?
I got my DreadBall Kickstarter about a month after retail.
I am still waiting on my Deadzone stuff, which most backers got in November and which went retail on February 14th.
strange, they started shipping DB KS a month early back in Nov 2012 and I got mine well before the non-retail-store-KS-backers retail outlets. I also had the first wave early bird, was yours the second wave?
strange, they started shipping DB KS a month early back in Nov 2012 and I got mine well before the non-retail-store-KS-backers retail outlets. I also had the first wave early bird, was yours the second wave?
I had a Cheerleader pledge in the original DB KS (2x Striker).
Put in for a $145 EB, I can always get rid of the pledge if I need to, but with the way KS works, if I'm interested, there's no reason not to. And those Asterian babes are gorgeous models. Plus Blaine is a sponsor, and I'm a sucker for Blaine models.
@SS- Do you think the Chovar will scale well with the Deadzone ones? DB stuff seems to be smaller than DZ minis and size is an important part of that game for LOS.
I'm wondering how a team of them might go, with a bit of fire support from one of the other factions (or just a bunch of other mercs once we get the compendium).
I think this can get really nuts if they end up giving us DZ decks at some point, especially with some of those alien MVPs, it could get pretty silly and violent on the battlefield.
So were approaching the same number of backers we had on the last Dreadball KS but considerably less money going in. Theyre gonna end up far behind DB 1 at this point. So they need to really step it up for me to stay in at $350.
Mr.Church13 wrote: So were approaching the same number of backers we had on the last Dreadball KS but considerably less money going in. Theyre gonna end up far behind DB 1 at this point. So they need to really step it up for me to stay in at $350.
Um. The money will come towards of the end of the KS.
That is usually where the "final-day-rush" comes from. You spend the first 95% of the campaign getting people on board. You get them excited for the showdown. You drop a bunch of "add-to-pledge" updates in during the final day or two.
That's the "Reaper-formula", and it worked well for Mantic too. Look at how much DreadBall/Deadzone, etc.. made during their final days. That is when people up their pledge. That is when people who pledge now will have started to think of their pledge already as "sunk costs" and be open to "just 10 or 20 more only make it more awesome".
Mr.Church13 wrote: So were approaching the same number of backers we had on the last Dreadball KS but considerably less money going in. Theyre gonna end up far behind DB 1 at this point. So they need to really step it up for me to stay in at $350.
This thing started 5 or so hours ago. There will be PLENTY of time for them to "step it up for you".
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: True RiTides, the thing is if you do not back the KS and go the retail route there is a fair chance that you will get the initial retail releases before a lot of backers. There are certainly people with multiple "early birds" that they will drop too.
Interesting, I got my Kickstarter Dreadball a month before retail, or is this in reference to something else?
Reference to the KOW initial retail release (trolls etc, I think that trumped every backer), some Loka backers and some Deadzone backers who have only just gotten their wave 1 some 3 months after the retail release. I was not trying to score points, but retail buyers getting their stuff before backers of Mantic KS's is hardly an unusual occurrence.
Edit: Ninja'd by Zweischneid and his account of this happening.
Besides Frenzy, I think Dreadball's growing reputation is feeding the explosive first day for this one. I think there are a lot of people who missed the Dreadball KS and want to get in while the getting is good on this second go around.
I'm mostly in this to hunt for Deadzone-usable things, but if there are enough of those included in the $150 pledge level, I'll be happy to stay there and pick up a new game too.
I know Mantic "adjusts" their Stretch Goal monetary intervals to fit the flow of pledging, but if this campaign does continue to outperform their previous ones at this level - meaning it rakes in well over what Deadzone made (breaks 2 million?) - it's going to look very odd for Mantic if the $150 pledge level is getting about the same amount of stuff as it did for Mars Attacks.
True. But I have no idea what the point is of 16 Convicts and 16 Asterians, unless they change the rules fairly dramatically.
If you can truly mix and match, you'd arguably need less than you need in regular DreadBall. Also, I've personally always found it easier to just flip a miniature, and not use a prone marker, not least to not get different players confused.
Waiting for a game-play video, but those are a lot of miniatures with "limited use (e.g. testing colour-schemes, etc..)" so far.
Mr.Church13 wrote: So were approaching the same number of backers we had on the last Dreadball KS but considerably less money going in. Theyre gonna end up far behind DB 1 at this point. So they need to really step it up for me to stay in at $350.
Um. The money will come towards of the end of the KS.
That is usually where the "final-day-rush" comes from. You spend the first 95% of the campaign getting people on board. You get them excited for the showdown. You drop a bunch of "add-to-pledge" updates in during the final day or two.
That's the "Reaper-formula", and it worked well for Mantic too. Look at how much DreadBall/Deadzone, etc.. made during their final days. That is when people up their pledge. That is when people who pledge now will have started to think of their pledge already as "sunk costs" and be open to "just 10 or 20 more only make it more awesome".
But folks with that $350/$365 pledge are not gonna have as much temptation to add to that pledge as it is supposed to be close to all inclusive. A chunk of this early funding is those pledges.
Zweischneid wrote: Waiting for a game-play video, but those are a lot of miniatures with "limited use (e.g. testing colour-schemes, etc..)" so far.
And a lot of duplicate models. Adding in 2 new teams would have been a lot more interesting than doubling the size of the original ones with more duplicates.
Zweischneid wrote: Waiting for a game-play video, but those are a lot of miniatures with "limited use (e.g. testing colour-schemes, etc..)" so far.
And a lot of duplicate models. Adding in 2 new teams would have been a lot more interesting than doubling the size of the original ones with more duplicates.
I'm sure we'll see New Sculpts! to replace some of those as a future stretch goal.
Perhaps Mantic is spreading out the stretch goal freebies so they don't wind up in a "not enough money to do resculpts" for the $5k Kings of War stretches or the "not enough money for a restic production run so gotta do this guy in metal" for Dreadball boosters or some Deadzone characters
either way it's like a few hours in an I'm quite satisfied with the $140. this'll be one of those where I don't pay attention and at the end of I'm surprised by the amount of free stuff I'll be getting (like Deadzone)
But folks with that $350/$365 pledge are not gonna have as much temptation to add to that pledge as it is supposed to be close to all inclusive. A chunk of this early funding is those pledges.
I'll bet you a Chovar that there will be "not-even-included-in-Frenzy" add-ons towards the end.
It's less about the amount pledged, and more about putting time between "the first pledge" and the "add-ons" to make it seem like separate purchases.
Would be interesting to see the data, but I would guess that people willing to spend more now, will ultimately also be willing to spend more towards the end. A, because these are the "completists" and B), because they've "already invested so much", a little more "won't hurt".
Yeah, I kinda agree... From Dreadball, I've found the double-sized teams to be well... Kinda pointless. - Except to leave me with even more models to assemble!
I've yet to use a single one of my 'alternate poses' models in an actual game. - The few I've assembled anyhow.
Compel wrote: Yeah, I kinda agree... From Dreadball, I've found the double-sized teams to be well... Kinda pointless. - Except to leave me with even more models to assemble!
I've yet to use a single one of my 'alternate poses' models in an actual game. - The few I've assembled anyhow.
I agree that more models isn't really helpful, but these are all going to be delivered pre-assembled (like Loka and Mars Attacks):
The miniatures are made in multiple pieces, but provided fully assembled (unless stated otherwise), and made from highly detailed grey plastic. The material is a type of PVC commonly used in board games such as Fantasy Flight Games’ Gears of War and our very own Loka. This allows us to have a high level of detail whilst keeping the dynamic poses required for such a fast-paced game, and of course making them very affordable as you would expect from Mantic.
Note that this material is not the harder PVC commonly known as “restic”, and is not sprued hard plastic.
The bases, which come unattached to the figures, are made from hard plastic.
Hopefully my 
