Just had a look at where the Dreadball KS (which I wasn't involved in) Striker package ended up. There were four teams included in that one, and including two more teams in the $150 Xtreme pledge level would definitely up my interest in seeing this through to the finish line.
I'm thinking the Brokkrs shown at the recent Mantic Open Day will probably end up being one of those included teams.
.. is bloody nice. The only marauder sculpt from Mantic that I've seen so far and really liked.
Looks brutal and ready to smash some faces in, not comedy goofball. Proportions are good, sculpting is good.
Not being British, I can't credibly say "bloody" to mean "very", but I agree. Most of the convict sculpts look pretty usable for all sci-fi settings. The upcoming "New Sculpts!" woman reaching to catch the ball being a notable exception, as her pose makes no sense outside of a sports context.
I went ahead and freezeframed/ screencapped the video to reveal a bunch of concept art for stuff that hasn't been unlocked yet, quite a lot of pics so here's an album with them all in:
scarletsquig wrote: I went ahead and freezeframed/ screencapped the video to reveal a bunch of concept art for stuff that hasn't been unlocked yet, quite a lot of pics so here's an album with them all in:
I can't see why not, there's nothing stopping them making multi-part things out of it... although they're saying the Plague are the only team that will be.
Starting to see some good value in the KS now, there will be 64 minis in Rampage after the next stretch goal.
Yeah I'll probably want at least a few of the teams but not to spend a crazy amount as in the past. Rampage or possibly uproar to get the stock game too. Though... going from eb1 rampage to that is 60 bucks.. can do that just as easily fishing around retail. Inclusiveness and shipping are the only advantage there.
There's going to be 12 teams total, so it might even end up as 5 or 6 free teams for Rampage, along with a scattering of giants and MVPs.
With this material, the unit cost is a bit cheaper than restic, there is room for a much higher mini count. Certain Mars Attacks pledge builds allowed you to have over 200 minis for your $150.
I'm guessing Frenzy will get 16 models + 2 prones as standard for every team. Probably some other stuff like a fancy limited hardback, acrylic counters as well. They're advertising it as the complete package, pledge for this and get *everything* so it should really live up to that expectation. 12 teams of 18 + the other minis currently unlocked would total 240 minis... then some MVPs and giants and other stuff on top and Frenzy will be looking rather nice.
Hopefully the shorter 3-week format of this KS will avoid any slow parts and keep the pace moving so that Frenzy backers don't get cold feet... all the same, Mantic would be best off focusing on teams for a while I think and get those +16 minis for Frenzy stretches out of the way ASAP.
Concepts look awesome, as usual, and that Marauder sculpt is a vast improvement over DZ, just please Mantic, make the biggest improvement in this Kickstarter QA.
scarletsquig wrote: Hopefully the shorter 3-week format of this KS will avoid any slow parts and keep the pace moving so that Frenzy backers don't get cold feet... all the same, Mantic would be best off focusing on teams for a while I think and get those +16 minis for Frenzy stretches out of the way ASAP.
Yep, they've done well avoiding momentum-killing stretch goals so far, and its given them the best opening day they've ever had. Hopefully they don't plan to put on the brakes with hokey stretch goals for awhile.
scarletsquig wrote: Hopefully the shorter 3-week format of this KS will avoid any slow parts and keep the pace moving so that Frenzy backers don't get cold feet... all the same, Mantic would be best off focusing on teams for a while I think and get those +16 minis for Frenzy stretches out of the way ASAP.
Yep, they've done well avoiding momentum-killing stretch goals so far, and its given them the best opening day they've ever had. Hopefully they don't plan to put on the brakes with hokey stretch goals for awhile.
I don't doubt the sheer value will be there as it is a Mantic KS but it is a bit worrisome to see a bunch of people claiming early bird slots with little intention of keeping them. Eh, that's how the KS cookie crumbles with early birds.
For those more knowledgeable...which of the Mantic KS have completely 100% delivered all products/waves to all pledgers? Is the original dreadball done? Are there still oustanding mistakes/mispacks/oopsies yet to be corrected on them all or have some of them been finished?
edlowe wrote: Oh sugar im in! Admittedly for $1 for now. Paydays to far away I'll wait for survey.
Chovar and crates sprue for deadzone at least.
For those more knowledgeable...which of the Mantic KS have completely 100% delivered all products/waves to all pledgers? Is the original dreadball done? Are there still oustanding mistakes/mispacks/oopsies yet to be corrected on them all or have some of them been finished?
KoW and Loka are done. Dreadball is shipped, but there's a few missing bits stuff that needs sorting from its final wave.
Deadzone has shipped wave 1, awaiting wave 2. Mars Attacks ships in August.
RiTides wrote: My half restic, half metal Dreadball team from their first KS pretty much guaranteed that I'd have to wait and see what they deliver here. If it's awesome, I don't mind paying more at retail to get it... but I'm not going to pay for it sight unseen (or even previewed).
Thankfully they've learned their lesson and clearly state in the FAQ the materials used this time. The multi-material Dreadball 1 stuff would drive me batty. People have good reasons for liking metal but I dislike it, and I especially dislike mixing it so it's good to see that they're not doing that here by the looks. Or if they do, they'll say it up front like they promised after... Deadzone? Where we kicked up a stink.
Vermonter wrote: Besides Frenzy, I think Dreadball's growing reputation is feeding the explosive first day for this one. I think there are a lot of people who missed the Dreadball KS and want to get in while the getting is good on this second go around.
Definitely agree, people love the hell out of Dreadball around here.
scarletsquig wrote: Something else I forgot to mention... this marauder: .. is bloody nice. The only marauder sculpt from Mantic that I've seen so far and really liked.
Looks brutal and ready to smash some faces in, not comedy goofball. Proportions are good, sculpting is good.
Yeah he looks awesome, though I like almost all Marauders.
I'm looking forward to much smoother kickstarters from now on, single-piece plastics for board and skirmish games, hard plastic for wargames, and restic/ metal becoming a distant memory.
I'm also staying awake for the next stretch goal just so I can keep the OP updated. Someone pledge $5k or something so I can sleep. :p
So long as the front loading / backsliding is avoided yeah. But they did rein that in nicely even though it took a few days. Probably worked out better for us backers anyway, the backsliding in Mars Attacks.
edit: I'm getting me a bunch of those coloured bases I think! I really like them.
I pledged for the $145 early bird (plus international shipping), and I swear, on my grandmother's grave and in front of all of Dakka that I will not add to that total. Kep me honest, people!
JoshInJapan wrote: I pledged for the $145 early bird (plus international shipping), and I swear, on my grandmother's grave and in front of all of Dakka that I will not add to that total. Kep me honest, people!
Quoted. No takesy backsies!
I'll see you in our support group though, we'll console you when your grandmother comes back to kick your ass ; p
I'll enter that compact with you JiJ! Uproar sounds cool but there isn't much of a savings in uproar compared to eb1 rampage and finding original db on sale I'm retail if I really want it.
I'll be reasonable and cut myself off at $200 though. And dependant on my dz survey.
Compel wrote: Thinking about it, I'm inclined to agree.
I mean, it's 2/3rds of the way to Kings of War's final total already, in the first 6 hours or so... Which is awesome.
But, there's what? An extra 20 new models, max, to show for it?
Well, as critical as I often am of Mantic's KS campaigns, it's unfair to compare anything to the initial KoW campaign, since it was a bit of a surprise all round the way that one panned out.
.. is bloody nice. The only marauder sculpt from Mantic that I've seen so far and really liked.
Looks brutal and ready to smash some faces in, not comedy goofball. Proportions are good, sculpting is good.
I'll agree that it's an excellent Ork from Mantic, based on their previous efforts. The thing is, that if it were a GW model, we'd simply shrug at it and say it was decent.
For those more knowledgeable...which of the Mantic KS have completely 100% delivered all products/waves to all pledgers? Is the original dreadball done? Are there still oustanding mistakes/mispacks/oopsies yet to be corrected on them all or have some of them been finished?
KoW and Loka are done. Dreadball is shipped, but there's a few missing bits stuff that needs sorting from its final wave.
Deadzone has shipped wave 1, awaiting wave 2. Mars Attacks ships in August.
I'm still waiting on my Loka and DB stuff. Conveniently, I got a reply this morning from them to my queries about my pile of missing stuff "they're on the way - sorry about the delay".
Oooh stuffs on the way then? Cool. I need to pester them about a couple of bits from DZ yet, but I figure they're all likely to be out of it for a couple of days.
Latest update #7 has the purple gorilla or is it guerrilla? Anyway... they're deluxing the DBX rulebook and including it in all of the stretchgoal hasing pledge levels, I hope they continue to do that going forward, I love my paper copies of rulebooks, but having a souped up digital version (that I didn't have to pay more for) is excellent
JoshInJapan wrote: I pledged for the $145 early bird (plus international shipping), and I swear, on my grandmother's grave and in front of all of Dakka that I will not add to that total. Kep me honest, people!
I'm right there with you, Josh. Speaking of keeping honest, I've already pruned back my Mars Attacks and Deadzone Survey 2 orders in order to justify getting in on this one.
I'm still evaluating my DZ stuff (as I just got it). Trying to decide how many connectors I may need and how soon I might need those, evaluating the hot-glue "trick" for permanent structures to save on them. Many of the second shipment items that I didn't order before (and probably all of the antennocities stuff this time) are mentally 'locked-in', however getting more of stuff I already got like more battlezones are under consideration. How enthusiastic I become for DBX will likely impact that portion of my survey.
So far, I'd call Rage worth ~$65 for $125 (28-30 Asterians, Ardia, Kailasa, two sportbots). The plague look as awful as ever, but at least they're not mandatory this time.
Glad you got it finally Grim! Yeah I'll prolly just grab a set of 5 connector sprues for $10... peanuts and will prolly make life easier. I have and like the antenocitii stuff, but it's way down the list value wise. If hobby cash is tight I'd probably sacrifice that for more DZ terrain, or maybe DBX stuff.
That’s now a free team of your choice at Rage ($100) and Rampage ($150 and Early Bird+) of your choice, of which the selection can be Plague Mutants team.
A free 16-player Plague team has now been included in pledges of Frenzy ($375 and Early Bird+)!
Next up: $260,000 – UPGRADE! Enhanced Digital Rules
If we hit this stretch goal, we will give the Xtreme Rules PDF the Purple Guerilla treatment, creating a fully interactive eBook that can be carried anywhere, with features including buy once, read anywhere, living rules, responsive design and the ability to download future DreadBall titles!
$275,000 – BONUS! Asylum, MVP
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce the clinically insane Asylum MVP and throw him into pledges of Rage ($100) and up, at no extra cost!
You can also add him onto your pledge for an additional $5.
I like how the asterians are less space elfs and more blue Star Trek aliens with this release. I am thinking about going in for Fury or Rage and the walk down to the FLGS to pick up a copy of Dreadball to play in the meanwhile. The stretch goal with more of the same asterian and convict players is a bit cheap though, more of the same miniatures. And I do fear that when a huge package with tons of miniatures arrive, I will just feel a bit overwhelmed and loose interest...
There's currently 14 early birds for Rampage left, probably your last chance if you want to get one easily.
Digital rules are in, working towards the next MVP now.
Hoping there's a new team after that, the sooner the Frenzy level starts to look like a good deal, the faster this will move, but it has a lot of catching up to do!
So, finally got to paw through the Kickstarter information, and I'm very excited. I'm sure a lot of stuff will translate over to DZ, same as 2 of my Enforcer MVPs have.
Also, another round of the ignore button for some posters who do nothing but whine and offer nothing constructive!
Yep, I hope more teams come quickly. Not looking forward to bogus filler stretch goals like funding "new sculpts" that we know they've already produced and exhibited at the open day. Why they would need to have filler stretch goals at all when this KS is moving along faster than any of their previous ones is beyond me.
Could the doubling up of the teams be a hint of a much bloodier game? The players have less armour and 'no rules' to abide by which could raise casualty rates considerably.
Duplicate sculpts are disappointing. Hopefully we get a stretch for variants.
Souleater wrote: Could the doubling up of the teams be a hint of a much bloodier game? The players have less armour and 'no rules' to abide by which could raise casualty rates considerably.
That may make some sense, but honestly recycling 'dead' figures would work just as well. It would also require less painting for those intending to paint their figures and less storage space.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mantic confirmed the Plague team is made of the same plastic as the rest.
I know some folks assumed it was the case, but I am glad to get it confirmed.
I'm not liking the filler goals myself, seems that although it did really well on day one it's kinda started to level off and unless there's a crazy pickup in there or the last day is massive I don't think we'll see all the new teams before it's over. I fear a no new team backslide in the next few days.
Mr.Church13 wrote: I'm not liking the filler goals myself, seems that although it did really well on day one it's kinda started to level off and unless there's a crazy pickup in there or the last day is massive I don't think we'll see all the new teams before it's over. I fear a no new team backslide in the next few days.
Only day 2... They've already shown one new team. I'm not a huge fan of Mantic's inability to get customer service right, but I have no doubt they can run this KS project decently, and react on the fly as needed if/when it deviates from their desired path too much.
@jorny but the blue star trek aliens have shells or antennas! Those look more like wow trolls w/o the tusks/hips/feet to me. The previous baldsterians were kinda off anyhoo. Maybe all of the spelf castes/factions will vary widely.
@yonan that reasoning is why I have no aw bundles as it is . I think at this point I'd like to get fancy dressing over *more* tiles over which to slave . Plus they're soo pretty.
I think my sister can have the space elfs, and the convicts are kinda meh. Plague guys are neat but dunnoz for space murder football. I'm sure one of the incoming teams will properly entice me.. and I like most/all of the free agents.
GrimDork, you forgot that all Star Trek aliens must have ridges or bumps on their heads prior to shells or antennae.
I think we'll see another team today. There's only so many days that this will be running, the teams will have to pop up every few days to keep the momentum going.
Like others have said, Mantic's gotten pretty good about modifying and revising stretch goals. We'll get plenty by the time it's all over, regardless of what level you pledge.
I'm super impatient, and want to see it all NOW.
I always kind of wonder what a campaign for a big miniature heavy game would look like if it was run in the span of something like two weeks or so. Would a super short, well publicized campaign be as effective as a longer drawn out one?
GrimDork wrote: @jorny but the blue star trek aliens have shells or antennas! Those look more like wow trolls w/o the tusks/hips/feet to me. The previous baldsterians were kinda off anyhoo. Maybe all of the spelf castes/factions will vary widely.
@yonan that reasoning is why I have no aw bundles as it is . I think at this point I'd like to get fancy dressing over *more* tiles over which to slave . Plus they're soo pretty.
I think my sister can have the space elfs, and the convicts are kinda meh. Plague guys are neat but dunnoz for space murder football. I'm sure one of the incoming teams will properly entice me.. and I like most/all of the free agents.
Looking forward to developments.
Grim, I actually like the convicts the best of the bunch so far. And their Orc MVP is just icing on the cake. I do like the plague as well, especially the idea that they are customizable, something that has been missing with dreadball minis.
It kind of depends I think... MA should have been shorter, but while DZ had a lull, it did build pretty consistently over time. I think you're right in that you'd have to have it well advertised. You might even scare some buy-ins just because of the limited engagement, though you might see a higher percentage of drops on the final day as well as add-ins, if you couldn't bust out enough progress before then.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @squall, I like the orx, he's cool, and the plague are cool.. I just dunno about a whole team of them coherently playing a sport I want some, but for conversions mostly. The convicts are ok, maybe if they get another sculpt or two I'll come around. And they'd make great gangers for necromunda style games.
Not much really happens in Kickstarters other than the first day and the final few days. 25% day 1, 50% in the last few days tends to be a Mantic KS, like clockwork.
Sometimes you get a mid-campaign boost as something neat is revealed, but if it's manufactured (as with Mars Attacks) then you pay for it later.
I think 2 weeks is pushing it a bit, but 3 weeks as with DBX doesn't seem to be hurting things at all, in fact quite the opposite.
I'm kinda glad to see 3 week kickstarters personally, maintaining a 6-week thread gets a bit dull.
So... super hilarious thought. Does dreadball technically have half time? And events during said half time? Because... picture this:
Pig lizard, and a couple of zees. The crowd watches with demented glee as the stompy low turn radius Pusk careens around corners and blasts through obstacles to reach the delicious space chimps. Almost like an even more demented form of dog races (if they were using live rabbits).
@SS, and backing one can get kind of exhausting. I think I literally did temporary damage to my hand from all of the spam checking/posting/watching of DZ I did on the phone..
GrimDork wrote: It kind of depends I think... MA should have been shorter, but while DZ had a lull, it did build pretty consistently over time. I think you're right in that you'd have to have it well advertised. You might even scare some buy-ins just because of the limited engagement, though you might see a higher percentage of drops on the final day as well as add-ins, if you couldn't bust out enough progress before then.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @squall, I like the orx, he's cool, and the plague are cool.. I just dunno about a whole team of them coherently playing a sport I want some, but for conversions mostly. The convicts are ok, maybe if they get another sculpt or two I'll come around. And they'd make great gangers for necromunda style games.
I had not thought about them for Necromunda... I love them more now. They may be a little small... but I can get creative with the bases or do something to give them some height at least if they need it. This just got more exciting.
scarletsquig wrote: I'm kinda glad to see 3 week kickstarters personally, maintaining a 6-week thread gets a bit dull.
6 week projects should be for the new/small indie companies doing their first or second project, who need that full space of time to drum up media coverage, community interest and enough funds to hit their goal in the likely event that they aren't a surprise hit.
Everyone knows who Mantic are now, knows their games, they have widespread community presence and the media waiting for their announcements, if they can't fund in 4 weeks then the project was a bust, because everyone will know about it the day it launches. The same goes for Reaper now, and CMON. I think the shorter projects also result in a smaller cut to KS as well.
I might use them for that purpose as well, get them some scifi guns and use them as thugs or escaped prisoners etc. I'm sure the team would actually be very fun to play, strategically triggering the bomb collars to injure opposing players etc, I'm just not overly fussed about the models... yet.
Mantic wrote:1) They are still multipart models, but assembled for you.
What the feth is wrong with these idiots? The less they have their Chinese contractors do, the better, because the less opportunities they'll have to feth everything up. Even Studio McVey - a manufacturer with a far better reputation for quality than Mantic - still sent out misassembled miniatures.
In fact, it would be even better if they were left on whatever passes for a sprue for this material, rather than having said underpaid minions rip bits off our miniatures.
Well... at what wouldn't Kirk attempt to take a whack? But yeah, I like the models more. They're a bit more cheesecake of course, and probably not terribly suitable for the look for the warpath faction as a whole... but for a sports game.. they can get away with it.
<quote>What the feth is wrong with these idiots?</quote>
If you don't like it why don't you just go elsewhere and stop bothering everyone.
"These idiots" have opened the door to board gamers who are put off by assembling fiddly one-pose miniatures, expanding their potential community and commercial reach.
I wish, for the kickstarter at least, that they had the option to have a few more miniatures but not have anything come pre-assembled. For retail, it makes a lot of sense to have the game ready to play out of the box (so coloured, preassembled plastic), but I think there's a lot of miniature gamers (eg, longtime mantic customers) who will be part of the kickstarter and will want unassembled models.
Hopefully most of the models are single piece, with only a few multipart models to make quality control easier.
@Black nexus, I've used the ignore button only twice on dakka, but those two times have made my participation in these mantic related threads so much better... A couple more have yet to rear their heads and another click or two and I can happily peruse updates here and elsewhere without the same blah blah. Of course other people will still be responding to them, but oh well
I also hope the sculpts are mostly one piece decker_cky, less chance of poor assembly or me wishing I could have done it myself that way. I really do like the boardgamey out of the box aspect to this though, I have too many painting modeling projects as it is, just buying something to play would be nice.
I honestly don't mind the preassembled; it helps go for that "You can play right out of the box" situation which is often lost nowadays. Imagine if you will if sometime in the future if Dreadball and similar were available in toy stores or the toy aisle of Wal-mart, a throwback to the days of HeroQuest and the like. That's where preassembled kicks ass, because you can buy it for a kid (who, depending on age, might not be able to use a hobby knife or whose parents might be too busy to assemble it for him) and literally play it without having to spend time fiddling around with parts to get up and running.
if you're going for a full boxed game, you need pre-assembled stuff .. you're target isn't going to just be wargamers like us, you're going after the boardgamer crowd too. So I think pre-assembled but not pre-painted is the best way to go to appeal to the widest range of customers. I'd prefer GW style plastic model kits, cuz that's what I like, but for a full boxed game going the pre-assembled route is the smartest way to go if you wanna make any money.
Black Nexus wrote: <quote>What the feth is wrong with these idiots?</quote>
If you don't like it why don't you just go elsewhere and stop bothering everyone.
"These idiots" have opened the door to board gamers who are put off by assembling fiddly one-pose miniatures, expanding their potential community and commercial reach.
Yeah, really idiotic
Who do you think started my round of "the ignore game" today.
The Internet has given everyone the option to have a voice. Unfortunately, some people shouldn't have one.
GrimDork wrote: Well... at what wouldn't Kirk attempt to take a whack? But yeah, I like the models more. They're a bit more cheesecake of course, and probably not terribly suitable for the look for the warpath faction as a whole... but for a sports game.. they can get away with it.
I'm not that fond of the cheesecake aspect either. But I hope they continue to move the Asterians away from space elves, painting them blue and giving them a third gender in the background is a positive step in that direction.
I think that pre assembled miniatures is an obvious move to make for Mantic, as long as they make sure the factory does everything properly.
I'm all for reassembled minis, every other company that's done this have had great results and think its a step in the right direction.
Also, can we please have an end to the "ignore patrol" you guys are just as bad at making the threads unreadable.
I think I've brought it up two.. maybe three times across all of these threads. Of course add in this post to respond to yours so don't feel like you aren't contributing at least a little. I am done though, button pushed as necessary, wont be making mention of it again if it can be helped.
On topic, I am glad of the extra poses. Seems like one of those 'fake stretches' that probably should have been in there to begin with (I mean, they already have painted pieces, where the first few stretch goals are already into sketches), but still. Makes me like the convicts better for sure.
Preassembled is also positive IMO, probably one of my favorite things about this right now. Especially with colored plastic and colored bases.. very good move for board gamers.
Will make a solid pass on the counters, people seem to like them but I've been fine with cardboard so far.
Extra poses is essential, 16 models in 3 poses is... undesirable. Multi part plastic would of course be best but what can you do, so long as the quantity and style is enough to still give them value.
The counters are part of my current pledge so... I guess I still get them ; p I really like the idea of acrylic counters over cardboard, I just hope the quality is improved a bit : / Can definitely see why people are so miffed with them, the quality just didn't justify the price. Since I have the DZ and DB ones already, nerd-OCD wouldn't allow me to skip these anyway.
It might not even be so much that you need 16 players on your team, so much as you want more choice in what players to take. Do you want to run guard heavy? Striker heavy? Pure jacks? You need spares to do this stuff.
Yonan wrote: It might not even be so much that you need 16 players on your team, so much as you want more choice in what players to take. Do you want to run guard heavy? Striker heavy? Pure jacks? You need spares to do this stuff.
Yonan wrote: Extra poses is essential, 16 models in 3 poses is... undesirable. Multi part plastic would of course be best but what can you do, so long as the quantity and style is enough to still give them value.
The counters are part of my current pledge so... I guess I still get them ; p I really like the idea of acrylic counters over cardboard, I just hope the quality is improved a bit : / Can definitely see why people are so miffed with them, the quality just didn't justify the price. Since I have the DZ and DB ones already, nerd-OCD wouldn't allow me to skip these anyway.
I agree with you on the additional poses being welcome. Too few poses is the reason I never backed that CMON fantasy football game by Eric Lang, and would have made me much more likely to pull my pledge in this one as I essentially did there. (I'm going to italicise that every time I type it in this thread, regardless of context.)
I'm not fussed about the counters. I won't be getting them, but I guess it makes (unexciting) sense for them to be a top-tier freebie. I'm not even that fussed about the fake stretch goals of alternate poses, as long as it's a small stretch. ($5k, isn't it?) I'm guessing that if the figures are pre-assembled but also in simple boardgame plastic, they should be possible to "unassemble" for those of us with a little modelling skill (ie, all of us here) to repose. Being BG plastic, which I'll assume is relatively soft, a sharp modelling knife and a simple pin is another way to repose or limb-swap figures to make them more individual.
It'll also help to have extras for when you want to make deadzone-friendly conversions Instead of disabling one of your DBX teams, you can just nab a few spares you may not even have used anyway
Mantic wrote:1) They are still multipart models, but assembled for you.
What the feth is wrong with these idiots? The less they have their Chinese contractors do, the better, because the less opportunities they'll have to feth everything up. Even Studio McVey - a manufacturer with a far better reputation for quality than Mantic - still sent out misassembled miniatures.
In fact, it would be even better if they were left on whatever passes for a sprue for this material, rather than having said underpaid minions rip bits off our miniatures.
These "Idiots" finally realized that dreadball is a boardgame and decided to treat it as such, I see nothing wrong with that and I would love to see the original one get the same treatment.
Well second day figures in for Kicktraq... this one has had a huge first day, but a smaller second day than Deadzone.
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
scarletsquig wrote: Well second day figures in for Kicktraq... this one has had a huge first day, but a smaller second day than Deadzone.
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
With Dreadball and Deadzone people already knew the first four factions before the campaign even started. Xtreme is at $280,000 and we still only know three. I think that might be a contributing factor.
scarletsquig wrote: Well second day figures in for Kicktraq... this one has had a huge first day, but a smaller second day than Deadzone.
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
Well, that's the thing when they front-load it so hard with Early Birds. Plus if you miss out on an EB spot there's really no reason to jump on board till the end. I considered getting a $350 spot just in case, but there were 5 left when I went to log in. When I got on they were all gone, so I didn't bother at all (and I won't for more than $350). Even that would have left me with a $150 and a $350 needing to drop one or the other...
It would be nice if the crates had the Dead Zone equipment inserts. The resin ones available are nice (I have a set) but a cheaper plastic alternative would be cool, especially as you really need two of the resin sets to replace all the counters.
Update #10 Feb 23 2014 - Stretch Goal Smashed! New: Frenzy Video and Kalyshi Background!
Spoiler:
We’ve just broken through another stretch goal, funding the tooling and sculpts for the new poses. These upgrade the Asterian and Convict team with new and characterful figures, increasing the amount of choice and variety in a team. It’s a good day to be an Asterian or Convict coach!
Frenzy - what's that all about?
The Frenzy pledge level is a new concept for us, executed beautifully on other Kickstarters we’ve looked at. We have a reputation for pumping our pledge levels full of free stuff, but it can be hard to know what that looks like 21 days before the end.
So, what we’ve done is put together this enthusiast video, designed to give you a good idea on just what we’ve done in the past, and what we’re going to be doing over the course of this campaign. Over to James and Ronnie! Video with the chaps
Note that everything in this video is being used as proxies to represent the sheer amount of stuff we’re going to be doing. Getting every 16 player team and all of the MVPs is just the beginning for Frenzy so we hope you stick with us right until the end!
Negotiations
“My guys are all out of your price range,” stated Mesut flatly, putting his tankard down - the alien who had turned up at his bar requesting to see “the goods” was making him uneasy.
“I can assure you ZhaoTek can more than meet the asking price,” smiled Ardia.
Mesut chuckled. “Really? Hamat killed three of Plalt’s guys last week, Jimen broke that Hulk’s arm mid-week and Ceno is currently the top scorer in five different sectors. What makes you think I’d sell them to a bunch of suits?” He banged his hand down on the table.
Ardia didn’t need to turn around to know that the pair had just been joined by some other guests - Mesut had a reputation amongst the Brokkrs when it came to aliens of the female variety.
Removing Arcadon’s leash, she simply smiled again. “I’m sure we can come to an arrangement.”
On Teams
Xtreme teams are a collection of individuals who play for a variety of reasons, not just for money. It could be freedom, it could be for pride – it could be to demonstrate product to potential buyers, or it could be to settle old scores.
From a pure, dedicated starting team to a mixed bag of alien and robot freebooters, to a full compliment of 16 players designed to give you the maximum number of every player type, DreadBall Teams are the bread and butter of the game. Pick the one that suits your playstyle the best, the one you like the look of most or the one that simply gets you excited inside.
My favorite of the two starting teams are the Asterian Kalyshi - not only are the models gorgeous, they have a rich background as well:
The Asterians are one of the most ancient races in the galaxy, a noble culture of great intricacy that has plied the stars since long before mankind had even taken its first steps away from the surface of Old Earth. Their ways are baffling to most humans, and they generally do what they can to stay away from direct contact with the realms of man, although this is becoming increasingly difficult for them as the ever-expanding GCPS encroaches into their territory.
The Asterians’ reluctance to make contact has led certain Corporations to develop something of an obsession with them. They do everything in their power to seek out these mysterious aliens, going to great lengths in their attempts to contact them - or even capture them. How successful they have actually been is a closely guarded secret, but the Asterians playing DreadBall under the DGB’s watchful eye are entirely the product of these Corporations. It is unclear whether they are clones, carefully disguised automatons or simply players who have undergone intensive prosthesis, but in any case they are almost certainly not true Asterians.
However, they are not the only ones playing DreadBall to lay claim to that name. There is an entirely separate group making a name for itself on the illegal circuits, and they seem to have nothing in common with the sanitised “Asterians” that treat the neodurium in the Core. These pale-skinned creatures, with their bestial tattoos and wild hair, are in fact part of a sub-set of Asterian society known as the Tu’var ho Kalysh, or simply “the Kalyshi”. They represent a growing wave of those that have chosen to return to what they see as the “natural” state of their people. Their belief is that the current path chosen by Asterians as a whole, one dominated by technology and the philosophical concept of Unity, is one that will lead to stagnation and eventually extinction. They are a wild people, bound less by ritual than their more “civilised” peers, with closer ties to the aggressive religious doctrine that threads throughout Asterian history. They also see less of a threat in the burgeoning human realm, seeing the rise of man as simply part of the great galactic plan.
As a group, the Kalyshi vary much more than the Asterian mainstream, and their ways can seem brutal to outsiders. Theirs is a martial culture, with members of all three genders learning to fight as soon as they can walk. Now, representatives from several of their clans have begun to make themselves known on the illicit DreadBall circuit, seeing it as a fitting challenge for their greatest warriors. It is not clear whether they know of the so-called Asterian teams that have been sanctioned by the DGB, but it is unlikely that they do not. Many have speculated that one of their motivations for entering the arena is to warn the Corporations that they are aware of the sham they are perpetrating, and that their mockery will not go unpunished.
Next Stretch Goal: $290,000 – Xtreme Acrylic Counters
The Xtreme Boxed Game includes a card counter sheet packed full of action tokens, injury counters, slippery blood splats (for when a player dies horribly!) money, betting chips, status counters and your usual rush and score counters.
We want to produce a set of high quality, hard wearing acrylic counters that will stand the rigors of gaming, and with your help we can work with our third party provider to produce a gorgeous set of Acrylic Counters.
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce a set of DreadBall Xtreme Acrylic Counters that you can add-on to your pledge for an additional $15.
In addition, we’ll produce a second set with an exclusive Frenzy icon on and include them free in the Frenzy Pledge Level ($375 and Early Bird)!
And finally...
Here's a closer look at the robots from the Free Agents set!
Note that you can add additional sets on for just $15, and we've also made the hard plastic Scenery Pack available as well. Get more crates and more strike posts by raising your pledge $5!
Have at it guys - just $5K until the next one!
9 free agents for $15 seems decent value, and yeah that scenery pack looks like it could be worth adding on a couple!
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
True. Given the demand for Deadzone compatibility, a fairly high percentage of backers appear to be "returning Kickstarter-customers", if not from original DreadBall, than from Deadzone (many maybe MA).
I'd kill to know how many truly new Mantic Customers they have and how many are the clientele they've grown themselves, that'll return to (almost) every KS they do.
Put me into the "almost every KS" category. I backed a dollar to MA, only to unlock Blaine, Edwin, bought DZ terrain to get it earlier than 2nd shipment, and a couple of bugs because "why not"? No legit MA stuff though. Also ignored Tarot of Loka, although that was only sponsored by Mantic. I went in for a few hundred on KoW, $90 early bird for Loka, $200 on DZ (With more to follow), and couple hundred on DB: all teams except Sirens and Zees, skipped ultimate and bought it later. I've also bought a ton of Mantic stuff at retail. So...definite returning customer, but I don't get everything. Just almost everything.
I went in big for KoW, and ended up not backing anything since (came very close with dreadball, and considered strongly deadzone). I keep an eye on all their kickstarters, so I would fit as a return customer, but not someone who backs all their kickstarters. I'm in at this point, but I'll evaluate this at the end of the campaign and see if it's worth it.
scarletsquig wrote: Well second day figures in for Kicktraq... this one has had a huge first day, but a smaller second day than Deadzone.
I think these things are going to become increasingly skewed towards the first day and the last 3 days, people know what the deal is with them and make a big pledge day 1 then come back to it in the last few days.
Well, that's the thing when they front-load it so hard with Early Birds. Plus if you miss out on an EB spot there's really no reason to jump on board till the end. I considered getting a $350 spot just in case, but there were 5 left when I went to log in. When I got on they were all gone, so I didn't bother at all (and I won't for more than $350). Even that would have left me with a $150 and a $350 needing to drop one or the other...
Yeah, I can understand some of the reasons for having multiple early birds for multiple tiers, but it really doesn't end up being very consumer-friendly! If you're not lucky enough to, say, have internet access from work to Kickstarter within an hour-long window of the project launching, then you've probably lost the opportunity for any anyway, but even if you do you then have to either 1) make a snap-judgement based on almost no information, or 2) make multiple pledges on multiple accounts, which (when you're dealing with $300-$400 pledges) serves to massively distort the actual amount pledged to the project!
In addition, if you offer pledges that are entirely contingent on stretch goals to deliver value, you either end up in situations like Shadows of Brimstone where you overfund and have to keep on increasing the price of the tier, leading to a backlash from people who are being asked to pay up to 50% more than earlier backers, or the project underfunds, the tier fails to become worthwhile. and people drop it leading to a massive backslide.
Either way, I think the only pledge systems that work are ones that have people pledging what they're actually willing to pay when the project ends, rather than speculating with multiple accounts, and Mantic's last couple of Kickstarters have not encouraged this.
Mantic's campaigns have all been very successful. True backsliding is rare whereas early birds are common. It's a good way to get money into the campaign early, rather than hoping a slow build-up does the job. I'd confidently say early birds end up with higher backing in the end, making it better for backers and for the project creator in the long run.
I've done the adding up of RRP totals thing that everyone likes to see in these KS threads and added it to the OP. There's a little uncertainty in the figures, since I'm making the assume that Rampage without stretch goals is worth $150 in itself. $85 of that is confirmed (boxed game and MVP), leaving $65 to be made up out of the multiplayer expansion (which will include all the giants unlocked in this campaign as standard, just like DB Ultimate), the player handbook and the sponsor pack... sounds about right to me.
Currently Rampage is $210 worth of stuff for $150, and Frenzy is $240 worth of stuff for $375.
Edit: Frenzy has been confirmed to be like Mine Cart... after the current lot of 500 has sold out, the next batch will be at a higher price.
If you have any potential interest in Frenzy, I recommend making a second KS account to park on a Frenzy level now, then at the end of the campaign drop the one you don't want.
Mr.Church13 wrote: They sure are taking long stretches without new teams. And with the brokkerz inevitably being the next team, this is like torture. Baaah!
Just for comparison, when Dreadball was at $290k they had seven teams unlocked.
But the fun of playing the numbers game on Mantic's side is that when things get slow, they can throw another team with a low unlock level (like 5k away or something). I'm sure Mantic have projections of where they want this to be by a certain day, and they definitely know how to add fuel to the flames in order to get there.
After watching that video and confirming that a Frenzy is a Minecart all over again, it will be interesting to see how much sliding around people do. Brimstone had most of its sliding going upwards, as people saw that the minecart really was the way to go for completionists.
Ronnie's comments about the possibility of 12, 14, or 16 teams depending on funding... that's a lot of teams. That's going to be a lot of figures. When we start getting close to the end and they start showing off the "This is what you get!" type photos, it's going to be crazy looking!
I thought about parking a separate account at Frenzy, but then I had a close look at the original 12 Dreadball teams (I don't own any Dreadball stuff currently outside of a Dozer figure and Marie van Helder from the Christmas box). I'd only want to buy about half of those 12 teams based on the sculpts, and if that ratio holds true for Extreme (which seems a good bet), Frenzy would end up dumping a ton of sculpts on me that I wouldn't end up wanting to paint or use.
On the other hand, Rampage is looking more and more like the perfect pledge level for me.
Man. I'm not even sure I want 400 minis. Even if they're like a dollar or less a piece. I have sooo many as it is. At least you don't technically have to paint these. I'll let them impress me and if I go crazy maybe I'll snipe out a dropped frenzy on the last couple of days. Or drop rampage altogether and get some more battlezones on the DZ survey
scarletsquig wrote: Should be around 300-400 minis in Frenzy by the end depending on how many teams get unlocked.
Not sure if they'll get to 16 teams, they'll easily get to 12 though.
12 teams of 16 figures is just under 200. Even with MVP/free agents, and auxiliary figures like sponsors and cheerleaders, 400 may be a bit high. Even 300 may be a bit high.
Kind of related, what purpose do sponsor figures serve for the game?
^ 20 figures per team once the 4 prones are unlocked and included.
And the potential for 16 teams if it goes really far has been mentioned. Plus all the MVPS/ sponsors/ free agents/ giants etc.
Sponsors are probably just decoration more than anything else, much like cheerleaders or coaches for dreadball. You can use them to track the score instead of a counter if you like.
I assume your sponsor will enable/enhance certain actions. If there's one to rile the crowd and get them to attack the opposing team, or let more of your guys sneak onto the field etc.. sponsors will probably modify such things. Best guess, at least.
The Yndij and Zee are amazing I'm considering dropping my Rampage pledge and backing this for the crates, free agents, and crazy aliens Maybe pick up a plague team for conversion fodder. We'll see though, they usually stuff the sweet spot pledge to the gills with goodies, possibly enough such that I would get everything I'd pick up on the side included, plus loads of other stuff.
The Yndij and Zee make me think of a new faction for Deadzone/warpath universe... they look like RebRebs. They don't fight for a cause.. just profit. Still would see them in a deadzone, but they aren't there to bring down the corporations, they just want another score. A rebs faction that's even more rag tag and alien friendly. Shiny.
lord_blackfang wrote: How many teams can we expect, realistically, to get in the $150 pledge? So far it's 2+1 and that's not looking super hot compared to Deadzone's 4+1.
I think it will probably be 4. The base 2 and 2 of our choosing. Thats just a guess on my part.
Squig keeps saying it may be something like 4-6 bonus teams after the main box... but we'll see. I would rely on at least 2, hope for 4. If it's more I simply won't have an excuse to drop my pledge.
GrimDork wrote: Squig keeps saying it may be something like 4-6 bonus teams after the main box... but we'll see. I would rely on at least 2, hope for 4. If it's more I simply won't have an excuse to drop my pledge.
4 extra teams would be great. Mantic is known for good deals on their kickstarters, so it wouldn't surprise me. And I know better than to argue with SS on anything mantic.
The original Dreadball campaign only gave two free teams, correct? 4 free teams would put Rampage over the top for me, but I'm not sure why they'd change it from their last Dreadball campaign.
Two free teams seems all but guaranteed. I think Mantic even let that slip at some point in the comments. (Can't remember if it was the main comments or on an update.)
I'm expecting two free teams, and a bundle deal to buy the rest. (Mantic have also been ruling out doing a BOGOF on teams, so some other form of bulk discount.)
Fortunately, I have a high rate of being wrong vs. Squig's impeccable record.
rampage will get a 2nd 8 player team choice at a later date, and a selection of Mvps. Frenzy will get all 3 seasons worth of MVPs, as well as all twelve 16 player teams, plus all physical rulebooks and a selection of add-ons, such as the exclusive counters
Yeah, I just saw that. Seems like they pretty much have this preplanned. I know they do to a point, but it seems they already know they are putting out everything. Makes stretch goals seem more artificial than normal.
That being said, people no longer need to worry about Frenzy having value.
Vermonter wrote: The original Dreadball campaign only gave two free teams, correct? 4 free teams would put Rampage over the top for me, but I'm not sure why they'd change it from their last Dreadball campaign.
The 2 free teams had 16 players, though.
I'm fairly confident the value will be there in one form or another, if it isn't plan B for me is dropping down to just getting a single team, any KS exclusives and Chovar/ crates for Deadzone.
Mars Attacks landed me with 68 minis + terrain/ other boxed game bits for $15 once the credit was deducted from my $140 EB. I think it was actually the biggest steal of any Mantic KS so far.
They, uh, seem to be quite confident about the stretch goals they'll be reaching!
I should point out that for $250 in the previous Dreadball Kickstarter (or less with early birds), you got all 12 teams (I think with 12+ players?), all MVPS apart from one (Dozer), and acrylic counters. $150 Striker + 4xBOGOF sets of $25 teams. You did have to buy extra bases though, and expansions and extra rulebooks did cost. This may bridge the $125+ gap a bit, although I think not entirely. I'm still irritated on missing out on the $350 Frenzy though - a $25 jump from EB to non-EB is enough to sting a bit.
^ The $375 price is for the current Frenzy only, the next batch of 500 after this one will be priced higher. Basically, Early Birds are still in effect with it.
Also, the plan is for each team in Frenzy to come with 20 minis (16 + 4 prones), Dreadball came with 10 if you just bought the one team (8 + 2 freebies), so add another $100 to the numbers there if you want DB to match DBX.
Bioptic wrote: They, uh, seem to be quite confident about the stretch goals they'll be reaching!
I should point out that for $250 in the previous Dreadball Kickstarter (or less with early birds), you got all 12 teams (I think with 12+ players?), all MVPS apart from one (Dozer), and acrylic counters. $150 Striker + 4xBOGOF sets of $25 teams. You did have to buy extra bases though, and expansions and extra rulebooks did cost. This may bridge the $125+ gap a bit, although I think not entirely. I'm still irritated on missing out on the $350 Frenzy though - a $25 jump from EB to non-EB is enough to sting a bit.
I don't think its confidence, so much as they will just manipulate the KS to make sure all the teams get in. I know everyone does this to a point, but I don't think I've seen a KS where they are so darn blatant about it.
Seems somewhat implied by the fact that the initial dollar value to fund was so high. Probably had a couple of extra teams/other things embedded within the start up cost?
GrimDork wrote: Seems somewhat implied by the fact that the initial dollar value to fund was so high. Probably had a couple of extra teams/other things embedded within the start up cost?
That's fair, but on day 3 they are already telling people what they will have by the end of the KS. I mean... I know Mantic stuff is just a glorified pre order and you get a good deal. Buts its another thing to pretty much have them say it. It makes stretch goals seem very pointless when they already tell you what you will get by the end of it. I'm still excited about this, and look forward to getting it. Its just taken a little but of fun out of the KS itself, that's all.
Even just the $15k stretches for MVPs probably have some padding baked in.
There's no way even a third of that goes on tooling for one mini, and it certainly didn't in deadzone with the $15k stretch for what turned out to be the metal helfather (which wasn't even free).
I am really rather confused by the metal chovar in DZ and now a plastic one for DBX. Seems like they could have saved themselves some bother there and just done it in plastic the first time, pretty obvious that the mini needed to be in plastic rather than 10 separate metal pieces with small connection points.
The value seems slower, but at least there hasn't been a "raging heroes" style blatant fudgedonkery. Thanks for the cash comparison SS, that's really helpful as this progresses as I'm by no means sold on Frenzy yet. Grimdork makes a compelling argument. Do we really *need* another 300-400 minis? : p I'm sure revealing them all will make that a "yes" but... why is it only early days yet!
Finally finished cleaning my Deadzone minis. That was a project and a half... fingers are raw, can't hold minis and can barely type. Should be more careful with that blade I guess ; p
Kicktraq has revised it's estimate substantially down since the initial launch, so it does seem like it was mroe heavily frontloaded than usual. Not a criticism, just an observation. And it's also still trending to a really good level.
I'm not sure I see it anywhere near 2.4 million. I kind of hope not, if it does that well they're going to have to swell their warehouse some more and that'll lead to additional mispacks Plus it might push other projects back. Of course, it would be cool for them, I'm sure.
There are others, but the monowheel is the worst of them.
Edit:
Having given it some thought, you could certainly handwave it as being a deliberately gak design - a way of handicapping the robots so that other teams have a better chance of beating them.
GrimDork wrote: I'm not sure I see it anywhere near 2.4 million. I kind of hope not, if it does that well they're going to have to swell their warehouse some more and that'll lead to additional mispacks Plus it might push other projects back. Of course, it would be cool for them, I'm sure.
It seems like $350 will be the max even a hardcore fan will pledge, and even then most iwll be content with $150 + a couple addons I'd say. Hardcore DZ pledgers... yeah, you know well how much we went in for that ; p So yeah I agree, it won't see anywhere near 2+ mill imo.
I REALLY hope we see some sort of official Deadzone add on to incorporate these "teams" into DZ rosters of some sort- be it as gang members, civilians, fodder, cover... whatever.
Random security machines guarding vital information at the top of a tower that two teams are trying to get into? Zombie outbreak to the south as both teams start fighting their way in? Sounds like a fun night in the Deadzone!
At the very least that plastic Chovar will replace the metal one I never had.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I REALLY hope we see some sort of official Deadzone add on to incorporate these "teams" into DZ rosters of some sort- be it as gang members, civilians, fodder, cover... whatever.
In the absence of the multipart kits that would work so well for this idea, I suggested they might want to add another "prestige class" like the Keeper that would work rather nicely for this: an experienced Striker who can smuggle a knife or pistol onto the pitch.
Kicktraq has revised it's estimate substantially down since the initial launch, so it does seem like it was mroe heavily frontloaded than usual. Not a criticism, just an observation. And it's also still trending to a really good level.
That's what Kicktraq does on every single project on Kickstarter, pretty much. Read the Trends are not Projections smallprint, it isn't trying to give an estimate as a lot of people assume it does.
3rd day was pretty good at $29k anyway, better than the 2nd day even, looks like encouraging the Frenzy pledge worked well.
I can't quite see this beating Deadzone, but hitting $1m is highly likely.
I'm curious to see how long they can keep these almost $30k days going. It's a strange kickstarter because there hasn't been a lot of pay upgrades so far (at the $100-$150 pledges), but it's going to hit a squeeze, and when there's $50k in stretches where there's a pay for team (since you only get 1 free team and this is the second team), a short story compilation and 1 free miniature, it may have a tough time.
Well, when we hit the robots that'll be the first 'pay' upgrade for those wanting to get both those and the Mutants at the sub-$375 level!
I will say though that because this Kickstarter had such a (relatively) high initial funding goal, and is keeping decently-sized gaps between stretches, we are seeing a fair bit less stuff for the money raised to date. We're at 57% of Mars Attacks final funding total, for example, and are a fair bit away from unlocking the 4th team, something which was included from the start of the original Kickstarter.
The existing teams have been better-supported however, and if they're anticipating a large number of backers then each stretch needs a high base cost just to fulfil!
Bioptic wrote: The existing teams have been better-supported however, and if they're anticipating a large number of backers then each stretch needs a high base cost just to fulfil!
If there's a high number of backers, then the cost per backer decreases since they split the tooling between more backers. If the whole campaign continued with this kind of pace, Mantic would just make more money after fulfilling orders compared to their other kickstarters. Nothing wrong with that - Mantic has a pretty good idea of the costs and they need to make a good enough return, but from a consumer point of view, we're just plain getting less than other campaigns got at a similar point.
I'm sure Mantic will have some surprise free reveals and smaller stretch goals as the campaign stalls to make up for these earlier larger gaps. It's all about momentum, and they have it now, so don't need as much to keep the total increasing. Later, it will take more to keep people spending money. Mantic has a good idea what they can afford to fit in at the end of the campaign for a given funding total, and will arrange the stretches to make the best use of that.
I don't want to be a downer, but I'm thinking we've hit one of "those" periods where things grind along slowly, and the mood gets correspondingly itchy, then scratchy. (Currently it's fine.) I don't think we'll get the robot team in until things pick up again on Friday.
So I'm going to take a little internet nap between now and then and use the time to play with my son, who's off school this week.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong when I wake up. Till Friday, goodnight all!
Vermonter wrote: I don't want to be a downer, but I'm thinking we've hit one of "those" periods where things grind along slowly, and the mood gets correspondingly itchy, then scratchy. (Currently it's fine.) I don't think we'll get the robot team in until things pick up again on Friday.
So I'm going to take a little internet nap between now and then and use the time to play with my son, who's off school this week.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong when I wake up. Till Friday, goodnight all!
You may be right, but it hasn't really slowed down since the drop in day 2. It probably won't keep up at 30k per day with this period of weak stretches (which would hit robots by midday tomorrow), but I'd be shocked if it dropped so fast that it takes 4 days to fund them. I'm guessing at some point on Wednesday the robots will be funded.
Are there any better pictures of the crates? I hear they are hard plastic, but are there pics of the sprue out there somewhere? I see that they are an add-on option for $5, so I'm really interested in them, but would love to see some more pics/details.
bbb wrote: Are there any better pictures of the crates? I hear they are hard plastic, but are there pics of the sprue out there somewhere? I see that they are an add-on option for $5, so I'm really interested in them, but would love to see some more pics/details.
You're not going to see sprue details until the KS is over (based on how mantics KS previous projects have worked)
what have been shown are likely to be either 3D prints or resin casts of a traditionally sculpted green
Vermonter wrote: I don't want to be a downer, but I'm thinking we've hit one of "those" periods where things grind along slowly, and the mood gets correspondingly itchy, then scratchy. (Currently it's fine.) I don't think we'll get the robot team in until things pick up again on Friday.
So I'm going to take a little internet nap between now and then and use the time to play with my son, who's off school this week.
I'll be happy to be proven wrong when I wake up. Till Friday, goodnight all!
You may be right, but it hasn't really slowed down since the drop in day 2. It probably won't keep up at 30k per day with this period of weak stretches (which would hit robots by midday tomorrow), but I'd be shocked if it dropped so fast that it takes 4 days to fund them. I'm guessing at some point on Wednesday the robots will be funded.
.
Dang, a new team every three days means we definitely need that huge last day surge to get over he filler. Come on Mantic, I love the game but this KS is torture.
I go away for the weekend and this thing blasts through $300k impressive managed to snag some EBs before I left so wait and see time need to catch up with where this is at.
Project Update #14: Team Progression: ICE CREAM ICE CREAM!
Posted by Mantic Games ♥ Like
Every Monday we're going to post a round up of all of the latest Xtreme progress in a series called Team Progression. This’ll include the newest sculpts, the latest art and any important information or FAQ.
So, first things first then…
NEW! Hector Weiss, Speedball MVP
DreadBall is the most popular sports game going, but it’s not the first to put players into a high-tech arena where violence is important as skill with a ball. Hector Weiss was a superstar Speedball player, a member of perennial underdog fan favourites Brutal Deluxe. He was at the peak of his game when the team’s Galactic Tour fell afoul of a deep-space anomaly that sucked him out of his cabin. As he blacked out, he thought it was all over, but he couldn’t have been more wrong. Waking up in a strange place where no one seemed to have heard of Speedball, he soon discovered the local equivalent and signed up to the first league available. DreadBall was everything he hoped for, a fitting showcase for his skill and showmanship. He just needed to find a vendor selling ice cream and it would be like he never left home…
That’s right, we’ve teamed up with The Bitmap Brothers to produce Weiss, a new MVP based on the iconic Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe cover art.
Speedball is a fantastic sci-fi sports video game with origins dating back to the 80s, loved and revered by many, including our own Curis Webb, who has spent all of his time preparing for the Xtreme Kickstarter by playing it on his iPhone. If you want to give the latest version a go you can download Speedball 2 Evolution from the Apple App Store or Speedball 2 HD for PC on Steam!
There’s no stretch goal for this miniature, we’re simply making him available so that you can add him onto your pledge for $10. If you've got friends who just want the mini they can choose the Disorder level and just pick up the mini for $10!
Oh, and Frenzy backers get Weiss for free!
Please help us spread the word with this guy – tell everyone! Blogs, Facebook, Twitter… we want the world to know that Weiss is here!
Mechanites
Earlier today we revealed what the next team would be – the Mechanites!
The idea with these guys is that you get a load of techy bits, from industrial jets to military grade weapons, stick them together and have a unique team with all kinds of differing abilities.
To look at how this might be done in practice, we asked our concept artists to put together some crazy ideas and draw them. Not everything below will get done, but the potential is huge!
Name that Team
In the original DreadBall game we have a range of teams from Corporation Humans to Marauder Goblins. Each team box gets a suitably evocative name: Pelgar Mystics, Ukomo Avalanchers and the Kalimarin Ancients are all examples of this, and we’re after your help in naming the Mechanite team.
So, what Robot names can you think of? It could be based on your favorite sports team (NFL is usually a good choice!) or anything suitably aggressive, like the Mazon Manglers. Put your ideas in the comments and who knows, maybe we’ll use it for the team name and include you in the credits!
The only sport game that got regular play in my home besides Super Dodge Ball.
It was all about powering up the pitcher and blowing up the batter.
Most games it ended up devolving into melees at the bases, baseball be damned. Wheelie unicycle robots were the absolute worst, with their stupid wheelie flip kick that Barzam and our other brother would abuse to no end.
Won't be going for that model, never played the game, but hey it's an option. And frenzy gets it free, so there's that. Still strongly considering dropping pledge level and just picking up a bunch of free agent pirates robots and aliens to flesh out my scifi stable. You get a lot in rampage though, we'll see.
Unless the other teams are just AMAZING, I'm probably gonna pick the Plague and Robots (Hopefully called The Docking Bay Packers) as my free teams since they won't come pre-assembled.
I think robots and plague will be the coolest anyway. Most other concepts seem to fall off once they're common, at least for me. Those two.. not as much, and they're supposed to be more of s kit than a bunch of stock poses.
Interesting comment from Mantic in the KS suggested that 100 minis for Rampage and 300 for Frenzy might be good ballpark figures, and possibly on the low side.
Striker in the first DB KS finished with 103 minis, for reference. Only one Giant. 4 giants for this one is probably a given considering that the multi-player expansion is baked into Rampage level.
As the latest update shows, they're quite happy to just plain throw free stuff at Frenzy, without the need for a stretch goal. I think the team stretches will happen faster once they get a lot of the other stuff out of the way.
Currently it looks like $50k of stretch goals goes into making a full team ($25k for the team, $5k for alt poses, $5k for the prones, $15k for the MVP), so they can happily get the other stuff out of the way for now, core game box upgrades, counters, fiction etc. then roll out 4 new teams, +84 extra minis for Frenzy within the space of $200k funding once things are looking a little slower in the middle of the campaign.
It does look a little...unfortunate, but I choose to believe that this is down to the angle of photography! Also, the in-game speedball sprites did look a bit like dwarves, yes.
^I'm even considering dropping below rampage and just getting some cool pirate/free agent/aliens/robot sets, along with a couple crate sets. We'll see though, mantic is usually pretty good at stuffing value into the sweet spot pledge. And the robots/mutants are temping. I have a feeling they already threw out my two favorite teams though, curious to see if they can surprise me with anything I like more than the last two teams.
Played a *lot* of speedball 2 on the amiga back in the day. Part of why I jumped in whole hog on Dreadball, due to those fond memories. It's ridiculously awesome that Bitmap Brothers and Mantic hooked up for this. The model... I'm not sold on as such yet though.
GrimDork wrote: ^I'm even considering dropping below rampage and just getting some cool pirate/free agent/aliens/robot sets, along with a couple crate sets. We'll see though, mantic is usually pretty good at stuffing value into the sweet spot pledge. And the robots/mutants are temping. I have a feeling they already threw out my two favorite teams though, curious to see if they can surprise me with anything I like more than the last two teams.
I wouldn't know about any Kraaw, they managed to not send me my rebs faction booster after all of that rigamarole. Poor rebs'll be really hard set to win missions until they get their backup =/
I dunno, I think some Kraaw players would be cool, I think they're neat. It just seems like if you pump out a whole faction of something that used to be a rare thing, I stop caring as much. I'm sure a Kraaw team is set to do well though
Jebus, how many mirrors did you break whilst standing in the carpark under a ladder factory while a herd black cats walked in front of you?
Rarity can be a good thing, but I didn't think Kraaw were a rare race as such. Even if it were, money would make it worthwhile to get them. And goddamnit, I want a Kraaw team ; p
Many lots? I wonder if they were still out of stock but didn't want to wait. Message sent, we'll get it sorted. Mostly considering dumping rampage for more dz survey 2 goodies.
GrimDork wrote: Many lots? I wonder if they were still out of stock but didn't want to wait. Message sent, we'll get it sorted. Mostly considering dumping rampage for more dz survey 2 goodies.
Zond wrote: Robots might sucker me in, still swithering due to the preassembled glorified board game miniatures though.
After the Bones Kickstarter, I discovered something I never suspected about myself: I enjoy pre-assembled minis. Sure, multipose hard plastic is the best, but there is a lot of joy in being able to grab a dozen minis out of the box, clean them for a few seconds each, and consider them 'done'. Plus, we have been conditioned for decades to accept board game minis in "as is" condition and unpainted, so they are an incredible time saver that, unlike minis in other media, won't worry at the tip of your consciousness like a piece of steak trapped between your teeth.
After the tedium of assembling even a pathetically small number of my Mantic Restic minis, I find the boardgame plastic to be the most enticing part of the DBX KS.
Zond wrote: Robots might sucker me in, still swithering due to the preassembled glorified board game miniatures though.
After the Bones Kickstarter, I discovered something I never suspected about myself: I enjoy pre-assembled minis. Sure, multipose hard plastic is the best, but there is a lot of joy in being able to grab a dozen minis out of the box, clean them for a few seconds each, and consider them 'done'. Plus, we have been conditioned for decades to accept board game minis in "as is" condition and unpainted, so they are an incredible time saver that, unlike minis in other media, won't worry at the tip of your consciousness like a piece of steak trapped between your teeth.
After the tedium of assembling even a pathetically small number of my Mantic Restic minis, I find the boardgame plastic to be the most enticing part of the DBX KS.
I agree, while I wouldn't want it for everything, it definitely has it's place and makes a nice change.
I'm not against preassembled or one piece miniatures. I think I would go for it if they were all deliberately one piece. I'm more wary due to Mantic and their ever shifting goalposts on what plastic is, and the quality of the product produced when that happens.
I fail to see how they've shifted the goal posts on what plastic is - aside from metal, every material they use is plastic.
The lebels on what each kind of plastic they've used have always remained consistent to me, the only thing that has changed is when they've decided to do one instead of another.
NTRabbit wrote: I fail to see how they've shifted the goal posts on what plastic is - aside from metal, every material they use is plastic.
The lebels on what each kind of plastic they've used have always remained consistent to me, the only thing that has changed is when they've decided to do one instead of another.
They have used many types of plastic, and openly said they used different formulasof restic for the different dreadball seasons. Not to mention, plastic has even turned into metal unnanounced, which you acknowledge. I like Mantic too, but lets call a spade a spade. They change their material more than any other company I've seen.
But how is that shifting the goalposts on what plastic is?
Hint, it isn't. Using multiple different kinds of plastic, clearly labeled, for different tasks is not shifting goalposts, nor is using different formulas for their PVC plastic between runs while chasing a better end product.
Switching from plastic to metal without telling anyone? That's a bad problem, definitely. But plastic is still plastic.
If anything, this shows they've been consistent in their application of materials everywhere bar the original Dreadball project - where metal should have been promised restic, but in truth the whole lot should have been in the soft PVC that is now reserved for their boardgames: Loka, Mars Attacks, Dreadball Xtreme, and possibly even DKH in the future.
NTRabbit wrote: But how is that shifting the goalposts on what plastic is?
Hint, it isn't. Using multiple different kinds of plastic, clearly labeled, for different tasks is not shifting goalposts, nor is using different forumlas for their PVC plastic between runs while chasing a better end product.
Switching from plastic to metal without telling anyone? That's a bad problem, definitely. But plastic is still plastic.
In the broadest terms ever, plastic may be plastic. But when it comes to working with it from a hobby point of view, plastics are not plastic. I sell plumbing for a living, and let me assure you, there are many types of PVC, and if you sell the wrong one for a certain job, you will have busted pipes everywhere. So just saying plastic is plastic isn't really true. I hate GW as a company, but they have the best plastic kits around. I love Mantic as a company, and I love their hard plastic sprues. Restic, I'm not so keen on. Both are technically plastic, but lords knows they are different. Hell, you can't even use the same glue on them.
Also, if all plastic was the same, why would mantic have changed their formula to "chase a better end product"? Because not all plastic is the same, and Mantic's varies a ton. It is a legitimate concern with this KS, as this is the first time they are putting out this material that is preassembled. I know its the same material as LOKA and MA, but those are single piece models. It is a legit concern. You may not be concerned, but alot of people are.
Actually, Mars Attacks is also going to be multipart pre-assembled, at least for some pieces. It's just that there are no production examples to have a look at - just 3D prints.
The only really comparable example is Gears of War, which had both very detailed and multipart pre-assembled figures made from the same material, and at least in my copy were assembled flawlessly. Doesn't guarantee anything for Mantic's stuff, of course - if nothing else, the volume is going to be much higher and there may be more of a time pressure for production.
Bioptic wrote: Actually, Mars Attacks is also going to be multipart pre-assembled, at least for some pieces. It's just that there are no production examples to have a look at - just 3D prints.
The only really comparable example is Gears of War, which had both very detailed and multipart pre-assembled figures made from the same material, and at least in my copy were assembled flawlessly. Doesn't guarantee anything for Mantic's stuff, of course - if nothing else, the volume is going to be much higher and there may be more of a time pressure for production.
The Gears minis are fantastic, and are part of the reason that I'm willing to pledge and give this a try.
If 'Pre-assembled' means they have solved the mold-line issues, then good. If it means we now get pre-assembled miniatures with equally bad mold lines which are harder to remove due to being pre-assembled, then they have made a worse product.
All they have to do is address the mold-line issue, both location of them and the severity of them.
The short story compilation has been added to all pledge levels, including the $1 pledge level which is a nice little bonus for anyone picking up a few add-ons.
I'm definitely staying in for the short stories and the enhanced digital rulebook, regardless of what level or goodies I pick. I like stuff like that. These guys are pretty good at stuffing the $150 pledge level though, unless money is particularly tight when the end comes around, I'll probably fold and keep my pledge at that level.
This is probably from the recent remake, but they look very similar anyway, so here's some nostalgia for those that played speedball 1/2 in the Amiga/C64 days:
Awesome move by Mantic hooking up with these guys. I think the market that appreciates it might be small, but much <3 from me anyway hehe.
Spoilered possibilities because... it wasn't optional to do this. Just a couple quick results from google image search. There's many more good options to be had!
Spoiler:
Possible Players: (this next one might cost a bit too much to license... but the uniform and... general characteristics should be replicable to an extent ; p)
I think running man + dreadball/deadzone is an excellent idea. It would probably make for a nice DZ scenario if nothing else. Maybe have a 'season' campaign where your running dude gets better if he survives, facing off against hazards and opposing running dudes. I think wining meant you got to quit didn't it? Well... not for campaign mode in any case
With a running man alt mode, you've got an excuse to add in a few weapon arms for the two modular teams, and maybe come up with a way to get some weapons into the hands of the other teams.
Weapon handlers stretches or add ons for each team? Two or three figures for each team? Chainsaws and shanks for the convicts?
A running man mode would almost be more fun than either game... ALMOST.
Convicts versus ripper suits! Stunt mvps versus 1st Gens! Fun for the whole family!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Weapon handlers stretches or add ons for each team? Two or three figures for each team? Chainsaws and shanks for the convicts?
I did suggest this as a Keeper-like "prestige class" for Strikers, letting experienced players smuggle knives, tasers and the like onto the pitch, and they seemed to like the idea. So we might just get it.
Black Nexus wrote: Looks like the beta rules are going live today, looks like we're getting closer to the robots as well.
Only slowly. It took Deadzone eleven days to drop below $7k a day, and Xtreme has done it in four. Mantic's been faffing about with the stretch goals again and it's going to cause another Mars Attacks - a visible lack of momentum that will translate into a week of backsliding later in the campaign.
The robot / Mechanites concept art looks great, but I don't feel confident that the models would look as good. If they do, I'll likely pick them up... but at retail.
But you still have to try to pick up the ball. Because apparently the players possess some compulsive disorder that makes them bend down to pick up the ball even if they can see there are two guys waiting to kick their ass.
So, after considerable reflection and a glimpse of what my credit card bill will be this month, I have decided to cancel my pledge. I have a good dozen games in boxes, with minis and components in various states of assembley/painting, which I have never played. I can't really justify spending the money on this one, as well.
Fairly sure that was a joke aimed at Mantic's use of KS..........
To be fair, online-shopping through Kickstarter, with all those other geeks buying the same stuff you do, chatting in the comments about how cool the stuff is going to be, is simply far more fun than clicking about "all by yourself" in a cold and lonely online-store.
Kickstarter may no longer be the "support-entrepreneurs", but it's quickly becoming the gamer-version of "let's go shop together".
Whether or not continuous Kickstarters are good for customer service, production quality etc., one thing I will compliment Mantic on is actually getting their stuff properly to retail! You can buy Dreadball stuff from Amazon and boardgame sites in addition to the usual hobbyist places, so there's a decent amount of price competition and you don't feel like you have to dump your life's savings into the Kickstarters.
As someone who picked up Sedition Wars at retail, the thing's a joke! Boxes with the v1 rules are still being sold, and seemingly 50% of the models in the range are Kickstarter exclusives. I fear the same thing for Kingdom Death: Monster - a game that was a great Kickstarter deal is going to be very difficult and expensive to get at retail, particularly outside of the US.
I'm definitely planning on being a lot more... Ruthless this kickstarter. Unless rampage ends up giving me mostly what I want, with minimum useless stuff, I'll be going down to rage (as originally planned), then adding in extras.
My priorities at the moment are:
Basic teams for all the teams. (16 models in Dreadball was way way too many, and is feeling a bit pointless, including the prones)
Some of the most awesome looking MVPs... Most of my Dreadball MVPs will never be used.
Acrylic Counters
2 giants
Any scenery
Acrylic pitch, mostly to match my Dreadball one
Stuff that adds variation / customisation / more options to the game.
Which, yeah, putting it together, is quite a lot of stuff. However, it really doesn't match the pledge levels too well, that I can see.
Zweischneid wrote: [To be fair, online-shopping through Kickstarter, with all those other geeks buying the same stuff you do, chatting in the comments about how cool the stuff is going to be, is simply far more fun than clicking about "all by yourself" in a cold and lonely online-store.
Kickstarter may no longer be the "support-entrepreneurs", but it's quickly becoming the gamer-version of "let's go shop together".
Spoiler:
When you're right, your right (and added bonus no gamer funk)
At that pace, it would need to hit 1.150.000,- for the 12th planned team to be revealed (if another 3 seasons of 4 teams are the plan, which was hinted at). .
Well, each team, to fully complete, requires $50k of funding with the current structure of stretch goals:
$25k - The team.
$15k - An MVP for the team.
$5k - Prone minis
$5k - Alternate sculpts
So, there's nothing stopping them knocking out 4 teams in the space of $100k if they want to get things moving and add an extra 64 minis ($120 value) to Frenzy.
Then leave the prones, alt sculpts and MVPS for later once people are more confident to either go for Frenzy or stay on Frenzy.
It's always going to be a tall order to convince people to go for a pledge level where the contents aren't worth the ticket price, no matter how many reassurances or videos you make.
Stretch goals are fairly moveable, too.. Mars Attacks had a ton of $5k stretches at the end simply because they wanted to get the stuff out there and into the pledge levels. Most of the free stuff at the $150 level was given out either in the last 3 days, or after the campaign had already finished, which was of course a disaster as by that point people had stopped bothering to look at it. Fairly sure they won't drag their heels on any backsliding this time (and it has already started to do this - Kicktraq shows -$134 for the last 8 hours).
I wish that people who write stupid rules wouldn't make even stupider arguments to defend them. According to Jake Thornton, this is a sport where a Striker is literally allowed to kick a man to death as he lays on the ground, but isn't allowed to shove someone who is on his feet. There is no referee, the throw-in can kill people and the pitch is strewn with explosives but if you're any good at handling the ball it is literally unthinkable that you would shove someone back.
AlexHolker wrote: I wish that people who write stupid rules wouldn't make even stupider arguments to defend them. According to Jake Thornton, this is a sport where a Striker is literally allowed to kick a man to death as he lays on the ground, but isn't allowed to shove someone who is on his feet. There is no referee, the throw-in can kill people and the pitch is strewn with explosives but if you're any good at handling the ball it is literally unthinkable that you would shove someone back.
Hmmm, I thought having stat increases on the advance tables was pretty dissociative (in context of DB), but that might just knock it off top spot.
Zweischneid wrote: To be fair, online-shopping through Kickstarter, with all those other geeks buying the same stuff you do, chatting in the comments about how cool the stuff is going to be, is simply far more fun than clicking about "all by yourself" in a cold and lonely online-store.
Kickstarter may no longer be the "support-entrepreneurs", but it's quickly becoming the gamer-version of "let's go shop together".
Spoiler:
I know this is your latest insightful observation on the field, Zweischneid, and it has some merit. But you're delusional if you think a group of gamers going shopping together would look anything like that picture.
Zweischneid wrote: To be fair, online-shopping through Kickstarter, with all those other geeks buying the same stuff you do, chatting in the comments about how cool the stuff is going to be, is simply far more fun than clicking about "all by yourself" in a cold and lonely online-store.
Kickstarter may no longer be the "support-entrepreneurs", but it's quickly becoming the gamer-version of "let's go shop together".
Spoiler:
I know this is your latest insightful observation on the field, Zweischneid, and it has some merit. But you're delusional if you think a group of gamers going shopping together would look anything like that picture.
Probably, that's why gamers do it on the internet, hidden behind avatars
As long as I don't have to wear the asc..neckerchief thing, I'm game.
Considering significantly dropping my pledge too, too many models coming in, may actually want to paint s 40k army some time. Still staying in for the digital rules and probably nicknacks like the crates and free agents, we'll see how much they pile Kk first, but I'd prefer to drop during significant growth rather than contribute to backslide.
Frenzy is a hard sell for me, partly because of the way it accrues value. At the end of the day, what am I going to do with 16 unarmed Asterians, or Brokkrs, or Hobgoblins, or Vamps? What am I going to do with 12 to 16 + teams worth of them, loaded with (even after the "new sculpts" upgrades) many sculpt duplicates?
Inevitably they're going to sit in the box and gather dust.
I spent quite a lot on Deadzone, but that had a much greater variety of things to spend money on. Terrain, sure, but also a much greater breadth of different unit sculpts and model types. This KS has a lot of repeats built in. That's great for Mantic's budget, and maybe that appeals to strict DB players or wargamers who want dozens of duplicates, but I'm a smaller scale skirmish game type. And you'd think that DB Extreme would be a perfect fit for skirmish gamer, as on field teams are fairly small, and the ability to mix-and-match players from different factions through sponsors means you're a lot less likely to need extra Jacks, Guards, etc. of a single racial type anyway.
Put another way, I'd be much happier getting more entirely different teams of 8 in Rampage and Frenzy, rather than half as many teams of 16 players each.
I don't know if I'm going to stick with Rampage yet; as always, it depends on the final total and all the included trimmings such as MVPs, Giants, etc.. But I do know there's no way I'll be buying more than one of any add-on team. I'll probably be adding on a box of 8 Sphyr, but not 2 boxes to get 16. Even for Deadzone conversion 8 is as much as I could use.
It does feel like there's room for a $250 pledge level here, like Frenzy, but 8-player teams instead of 16.
If Rage had an EB, I'd have been all over it, but at $100 with boxed game + 1 KS exclusive model it really didn't look like much of a deal and still doesn't.
Actually, thinking about it, Rampage + 8 teams ($270) might end up being more tempting than Frenzy.. you still get all 12 teams, just without the doubling up and a few extras.
Even for the base game. If Xtreme can mix-and-match player (including some from the old range), and the box comes with a bunch of Free Agents on top, 8 players are actually more than enough for Xtreme (unlike regular DB, where I usually build teams to about 10 for leagues for the "normal-size" teams).
I still fail to see how those extra minis are anything but dead weight.
Here's another one, this time making excuses for writing the rule in Dreadball that let Judwan break the game:
In normal DreadBall a player must always attempt to catch a ball if he can. In DBX
the only time he must make the attempt is if a teammate passes it to him directly.
If it scatters to him under any other circumstances then he may choose whether to
make the catch attempt or not. This means that he can more easily avoid the
penalty for losing the ball, but it also means that he is less likely to make the lucky
catch and an unexpected Strike.
...
This rule is another example of the DBX player's lack of skill and commitment to the
game as a sport rather than a brawl. It also demonstrates their lesser skill and
indoctrination. A professional Striker will have been trained to reflexively attempt a
catch over many years.
That's right, folks: while unskilled DBX players are no worse at catching the ball than Dreadball players, their lack of training makes them capable of not going for sucker passes like a dog after a tennis ball if it would be disadvantageous to do so. In other words, being a skilled professional makes you worse at your job.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Beasts of War has a preview of one of the next teams - what looks like a crystalline race augmented with cybernetics.
I am in favour of the concept - as far as fantasy races to knock off go, Space Paraelementals are much better than Space Dwarves or Space Werewolves, and play well with the conceit of silicon-based lifeforms (hence why I suggested Earth/Fire paraelementals as opposed to Earth/Ice paraelementals way back when). I'm not really a fan of the look, though.
And I think that team has ended any interest I had in Frenzy not a fan of the concept so a team of 16 does nothing for me looks like Rampage plus a few extras for me then stick to 6 to 8, 8 man teams I like rather than 12 most of which will sit in a box.
Those scythe arms could be fun to hack away at Rebs, Plague, and Marauders with after the game ends and the crystal dudes end up stuck at a Plague outbreak.
Hmm - I wonder if those original DB teams will have proper packaging. Very attractive if that's the case! I also like the "add $5 and we'll ship as soon as you've completed the survey" option - gives people a chance to play with a fair chunk of stuff before the KS delivery date.
Of course, there might be some mild controversy about selling existing product via Kickstarter, but I'm certainly not complaining!
Kickstarter can and have asked creators to remove products not directly funded by the project itself but it's a bit hit and miss and most seem to get away with it (or KS ignore it as they are getting 5%) and even those that have to remove them just put the extras back into the pledge manager that KS has no control over anyway ( throw in an extra $50 or so and we'll give you something to spend it on later nudge nudge wink wink)
Bioptic wrote: Hmm - I wonder if those original DB teams will have proper packaging. Very attractive if that's the case! I also like the "add $5 and we'll ship as soon as you've completed the survey" option - gives people a chance to play with a fair chunk of stuff before the KS delivery date.
Of course, there might be some mild controversy about selling existing product via Kickstarter, but I'm certainly not complaining!
If you buy the game it will come in a box
but individual team I would suspect will be in plastic bags not the Manitc video case style packaging
Those cases are great. I know I've said it before but I stand by it. Just need to find a good thickness and density of foam to convert the wider boxes to fit 25 mm minis.
Original db teams ad discount? Damn, they may keep more of my money than I thought... get the digital compendium and teams I like as opposed to default for a fancy build your own starter set... cunning fiends!
GrimDork wrote: Those cases are great. I know I've said it before but I stand by it. Just need to find a good thickness and density of foam to convert the wider boxes to fit 25 mm minis.
Original db teams ad discount? Damn, they may keep more of my money than I thought... get the digital compendium and teams I like as opposed to default for a fancy build your own starter set... cunning fiends!
Crystal dudes look cool too.
The crystal guys are my least favorite of the bunch. That being said, I don't hate them, its just robots are cooler than rocks... every single time.
Also, convicts are still my favorite team by far, though I think I'm in the minority there.
But it's definitely something I need to see as a miniature before I'd ever consider pledging.
Rock-men-miniatures... haven't seen a good one yet. And with some translucent plastic on top? That's rather far "experimental" territory for me.
The "get-better-the-closer-they-stick-together" seems like it has few downsides, as "bashy" DreadBall teams tend to cluster together anyhow. Add a non-Crystal-Striker for ball-fetching-duty and you're gold
I still have no reply about the Mars Attacks pledge manager email confirmations... could someone who has pledged on this one ask them to update that campaign regarding it?
The (already pushed back) deadline to finalize pledges is coming up, and without their confirmation email system apparently working, a lot of us are left wondering what to do........ and it seems Mantic pays attention to questions / comments on their current KS better than past ones :-/
Something like this in the comments would be grand:
"Could you please update your Mars Attacks campaign, which still has the pledge manager email confirmations not going through??"
RiTides wrote: I still have no reply about the Mars Attacks pledge manager email confirmations... could someone who has pledged on this one ask them to update that campaign regarding it?
The (already pushed back) deadline to finalize pledges is coming up, and without their confirmation email system apparently working, a lot of us are left wondering what to do........ and it seems Mantic pays attention to questions / comments on their current KS better than past ones :-/
Something like this in the comments would be grand:
"Could you please update your Mars Attacks campaign, which still has the pledge manager email confirmations not going through??"
Cheers in advance guys!
Changed my pledge today about 4hours ago, got my confirmation email a few minutes later. 1st time I submitted I never got one guess it was a quiet time on their server.
Well at least DBX won't be using Google docs they mentioned today that they've finally invested in a proper pledge manager. Took me 4 submissions before I finally got a Mars Attacks confirmation.
I still fail to see how those extra minis are anything but dead weight.
They add a great deal of "perceived value" for little additional cost on Mantic's end. Especially if you don't break it down, like we do here and just "count the minis" - as many do....
RiTides wrote: I still have no reply about the Mars Attacks pledge manager email confirmations... could someone who has pledged on this one ask them to update that campaign regarding it?
The (already pushed back) deadline to finalize pledges is coming up, and without their confirmation email system apparently working, a lot of us are left wondering what to do........ and it seems Mantic pays attention to questions / comments on their current KS better than past ones :-/
Something like this in the comments would be grand:
"Could you please update your Mars Attacks campaign, which still has the pledge manager email confirmations not going through??"
Cheers in advance guys!
Changed my pledge today about 4hours ago, got my confirmation email a few minutes later. 1st time I submitted I never got one guess it was a quiet time on their server.
scarletsquig wrote: They've also added the entire Dreadball range into the Xtreme KS as add-ons.
40% discount + free shipping on everything.
Yonan wrote: If I only I hadn't bought everything they just added at retail ; p
The difference will be getting them now (via retail, as you just did) and getting them in November at best, or in a year's time in Feb 2015 when they finally send you your missing stuff...
Speaking of missing stuff - I've just gotten my Loka replacement river horse. I just asked for two halves of the body to be resent - ones that weren't warped casts so I could assemble them easily. They sent me an entire replacement model, which is - naturally - just as fething warped.
I also just got my missing Dreadball stuff. (both little parcels arrived together). It's the 28th of Feb, 2014.
Actually, getting these little baggies of figures in hand now makes it much easier to resist going any bigger on my existing pledge, and if it comes to it, easier to pull my pledge. Since these figures are going right into a box with the rest of them, probably never to be painted or used in any way...
scarletsquig wrote: Actually, thinking about it, Rampage + 8 teams ($270) might end up being more tempting than Frenzy.. you still get all 12 teams, just without the doubling up and a few extras.
Thanks for doing that math, Squig; Rampage + 8 teams at $270 does sound more appealing. Particularly when, with that formula, you can include some original Dreadball teams in your total.
Now that they've confirmed they don't want to do Deadzone cards for any of the DBX models, I could actually contemplate doing a very small order on this one. They still have plenty of time to win me over to DBX on its own merits, or to make Rampage a can't miss gem of a pledge, but a Sphyr team confined to DBX is less tempting to me than one I could proxy into Deadzone.
Yes, I could create my own rules and swap weapons into their hands. But if I'm patient, chances are good that Mantic will do all of that for me whenever they launch Deadzone 2. And the (nothing confirmed) possibility that they might launch even a "small" Deadzone expansion later this year makes me doubly hesitant to go in big now.
Getting the original Dreadball for $50 is a very nice deal, though. I could almost see picking that up instead of Rampage and adding the teams I'm most interested in for both ranges.
Having read over the rules for DBX you may actually want those extra players over the standard 8. Yes you only start with a few on the pitch but you can bring extra on with your team actions, and their is no limit to the maximum you can have on the pitch at any time.
Plus with the injury system in this version where players are not removed from the pitch when they are injured but sit their until they recover I can see a much higher player count needed than in standard DB.
I don't like the focus on original dreadball the KS has become. It is nice of Mantic to offer it all at a discount as part of this KS, but I would like to see them showing NEW stuff for the new game instead of spending a lot of time with original dread ball bundles and questions about those bundles.
CptJake wrote: I don't like the focus on original dreadball the KS has become. It is nice of Mantic to offer it all at a discount as part of this KS, but I would like to see them showing NEW stuff for the new game instead of spending a lot of time with original dread ball bundles and questions about those bundles.
This last update was damage control. Mantic screwed up by trying to tie stretch goals to dates instead of to funding levels, so the pitiful offerings for a $350k campaign came back to bite them. If they weren't willing to put the Robots forwards, they had to obtain some alternate funding, and that meant offering their back catalogue for sale at a discount.
I get that, and it did help put the daily total a bit higher.
But I would like to see them now inject info about new stuff instead of the old. All the original dreadball stuff doesn't make my Frenzy pledge any more attractive. Starting to preview what they intend to fill it with and expending more resources on highlighting the new game instead of rehashing the original would be nice.
I know KS comments sections tend to be drivel anyway, but all I've seen from Mantic in the comments recently has been explaining the dread ball add ons and answering questions about adding in more original dread ball stuff. Granted I don't keep up with the comments section and tend to just scan them a couple times a day so I may have missed some Big News about DreadBall Xtreme.
CptJake wrote: I get that, and it did help put the daily total a bit higher.
But I would like to see them now inject info about new stuff instead of the old. All the original dreadball stuff doesn't make my Frenzy pledge any more attractive. Starting to preview what they intend to fill it with and expending more resources on highlighting the new game instead of rehashing the original would be nice.
I know KS comments sections tend to be drivel anyway, but all I've seen from Mantic in the comments recently has been explaining the dread ball add ons and answering questions about adding in more original dread ball stuff. Granted I don't keep up with the comments section and tend to just scan them a couple times a day so I may have missed some Big News about DreadBall Xtreme.
I check them pretty regularly. Besides the announcement of the crystal guys, there hasn't been any more real info.
CptJake wrote: I don't like the focus on original dreadball the KS has become. It is nice of Mantic to offer it all at a discount as part of this KS, but I would like to see them showing NEW stuff for the new game instead of spending a lot of time with original dread ball bundles and questions about those bundles.
This last update was damage control. Mantic screwed up by trying to tie stretch goals to dates instead of to funding levels, so the pitiful offerings for a $350k campaign came back to bite them. If they weren't willing to put the Robots forwards, they had to obtain some alternate funding, and that meant offering their back catalogue for sale at a discount.
Tied to dates? What? Can I have some of that angry stuff you're smoking?
Sems much more likely that they've decided to change their stretch goal size strategy because they found out the impetus wasn't carrying the large gap anymore, and are using the existing Dreadball stuff to carry them over the $350k line before adjusting, rather than having to change the already announced goal. My guess is that they're chopping the team boosters into smaller chunks of stretch funds to keep things rolling.
I don't think the teams were tied to dates, but I do think Mantic may have made a little mistake when they estimated the funding curve on this one relative to their stretch goals. I'll give it a couple of days more, but I think that the $150 level is gonna end up the better value if it continues like this and I'll let someone else take the risk with my EB Frenzy.
They will certainly adjust after we hit 350k. I imagine we're gonna see another team at a much lower stretch, as well as some other exciting anouncements to keep this moving along. They have hinted pretty strongly that they have a few more tricks up their sleeve.
I will say this though. If they drop another insipid fluff filler goal instead of throwing up the next team or they keep radio silence until the desperation goal of the season 4 book is met I will not be a happy camper with this foot dragging campaign.
I am not a backer yet, but if there is some sort of Deadzone crossover I will jump in with a bit of cash. Stat cards for a Convict faction would see me jump in, penal colony deadzone would be great. Other teams such as the bots seem easy to make crossovers for. (For Feth's sake, just read some of the updates, so probably no Deadzone cards for DBX models? Seems like a good way to miss out on money).
Slightly off topic but I have limited experience of Dreadball but one issue I did have is the clear hex bases and their attachment to the sprue. It is a very solid plastic and as a result I could never get it smooth once removing them, that irked me a lot. Is it just my knife is not sharp enough or is their a tip to get them smoothly removed?
Is she supposed to be an MvP or do we get some kind of plutonius VII Power Lifters team? If I stay in for the game itself (wondering if I'll ever even play it, how little I play other games) then rampage is looking pretty good. Even if we only see season six, two add-on teams and the robots/plague defaulted in makes it pretty attractive. If I dropped out to get just goodies I would want the free agents, plague, and probably robots anyway... and now there's a fair amount of all of that included.
Tied to dates? What? Can I have some of that angry stuff you're smoking?
Sems much more likely that they've decided to change their stretch goal size strategy because they found out the impetus wasn't carrying the large gap anymore, and are using the existing Dreadball stuff to carry them over the $350k line before adjusting, rather than having to change the already announced goal. My guess is that they're chopping the team boosters into smaller chunks of stretch funds to keep things rolling.
I think Alex meant that they planned to have A stretch goal open on B day, and X stretch goal opened on Z Day, and so on.
I also think you're correct going forward. And things like "short stories/fluff/background" should probably be included in the rulebooks where they might actually be read, rather than in a small separate booklet that most of us will pretty much put/throw away.
I also think you're correct going forward. And things like "short stories/fluff/background" should probably be included in the rulebooks where they might actually be read, rather than in a small separate Electronic booklet that most of us will pretty much put/throw away.
I doubt I would even download it let alone actually read it. I'm not very interested in it, and the fact it is electronic greatly lessens my desire to read it.
But that is just me because I am an old set in my ways dead tree reading type of guy.
Compel wrote: Awesome. That's pretty much exactly what I've been hoping for. That move might very well have locked me into Rampage 100%
Thats exactly what I thought when I saw this update.
Ironically, it makes my decision to stick with Rage or nothing that much easier. It's the only level where you can still spend your freebie team where you want it, instead of being told you will be getting Plague, Junk Robots and Dwarves.
I also think you're correct going forward. And things like "short stories/fluff/background" should probably be included in the rulebooks where they might actually be read, rather than in a small separate Electronic booklet that most of us will pretty much put/throw away.
I doubt I would even download it let alone actually read it. I'm not very interested in it, and the fact it is electronic greatly lessens my desire to read it.
But that is just me because I am an old set in my ways dead tree reading type of guy.
I have to agree with you on that CptJake. That said it lessens the production cost a lot, to the point where it is a strategy that GW use with what they consider "smaller interest" codexes etc. Except they still demand a hefty price for such a product.
I also think you're correct going forward. And things like "short stories/fluff/background" should probably be included in the rulebooks where they might actually be read, rather than in a small separate Electronic booklet that most of us will pretty much put/throw away.
I doubt I would even download it let alone actually read it. I'm not very interested in it, and the fact it is electronic greatly lessens my desire to read it.
But that is just me because I am an old set in my ways dead tree reading type of guy.
Actually, I'm somewhat with you. I'm getting a tablet soon, but that'll be for PDF'ed rulebooks and such (to protect my nice hardcovers and such). I'm sure I'll read the fluff included in rulebooks, some magazines, and maybe some HH novels, etc. But I can't see myself making the effort to download a DBX fluff e-booklet and read it on the device. Ironically, I'm much more likely to download and read the fanmade DBX stuff in Ironwatch since it'll be part of a magazine rather than a fluff booklet thing.
I was seriously considering dropping Rampage and just picking up a few odds and ends for Deadzone before this last update. Now that it looks like we'll be getting at least 6 (mini) teams I'll be staying on. All value is subjective - (I personally value the bundled Asterian team at $0, as that's what I'd pay for them individually) - and we're not yet to the point where it's worth it to me, but it does look like we'll get there.
I didn't need BOTB for Mars Attacks and I don't need Frenzy for this one, but for those who do, more power to you. When they introduce a Frenzy level pledge on a Deadzone 2 KS, I'll be all over it.
Azazelx wrote: Actually, I'm somewhat with you. I'm getting a tablet soon, but that'll be for PDF'ed rulebooks and such (to protect my nice hardcovers and such). I'm sure I'll read the fluff included in rulebooks, some magazines, and maybe some HH novels, etc. But I can't see myself making the effort to download a DBX fluff e-booklet and read it on the device. Ironically, I'm much more likely to download and read the fanmade DBX stuff in Ironwatch since it'll be part of a magazine rather than a fluff booklet thing.
Once you go pdf, you don't go back. Now I just need to kick the hardcover habit... but they look so nice and pristine on that shelf.
I know that feeling I have a shelf full of rulebooks that never get opened because I have them on pdf on my tablet but for some reason I have to get the printed version just to have it on the shelf.
Unless you like to be able to reference rules quickly during a game.
I may be missing sarcasm (wrong smiley in that case!!) but a bookmarked pdf - or depending on game, bunch of pdfs - is so much quicker than hard copy even on my antiquated first gen ipad. Which was a gift! I didn't give apple money, never have never will I swear!
Azazelx wrote: Yeah. I love me a pristine hardcover. Given that PDFs are often "free", I don't mind buying the hardcovers regardless.
Bookmarked PDF does seem pretty rapid fire. Also can have all your stuff readily available in one place. Just as long as I'm not trying to use it quickly on a phone.
I think I've got KS burnout. I'm interested in dbx, at the same time I could just forget about it entirely and not care. Most of it will exist at retail and it'll give me something to do, look out for sales.
We'll see. And if I drop my first slot rampage I'll let someone know first
Try to get a game in somewhere first since iirc you haven't played it yet? It's *really* good, and I never played tabletop blood bowl (did play PC game... and watch the polaris tournaments). Did you end up watchign all the dreadball academies? If nothing else, using the KS to get discounted base game would be a good idea if you like the game.
But yeah, cherry picking individual things at retail probably won't cost much more especially if you wait for discounts.
Yeah, I think it's mostly that I have so much deadzone, and other things coming in like bones II, mars attacks, and my own pre-kickstarter collection of death. And this'll be ending before I'm fully back to work full time too, but mostly it's zomg too many little plastic people around. Not *technically* having to paint the first two teams IS tempting. We'll see. I'll make a more informed decision when this ends, I doubt I come away with a nil pledge though
DB academy is really nice, makes the game look to have a lot of potential.
I think I've got KS burnout. I'm interested in dbx, at the same time I could just forget about it entirely and not care. Most of it will exist at retail and it'll give me something to do, look out for sales.
That's actually a really good description of how I'm feeling about the whole thing. (And not just this campaign). I'd really rather let a whole lot of these things come home at this point before pouring more money into them.
Yeah. I'd feel better about dumping more (potentially obscene amounts) money into the eventual warpath kickstarter if that was the only thing I'd have to wait for, and if I hadn't spent a bunch right before it. We'll see though, I do tend to like the fluff books and I wouldn't mind reading through the digital rulebooks and stuff. And a few models are just too damn cool to pass up cold, but it might be worth doing so to be able to not having to watch this kickstarter and get updates for months.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah. I'd feel better about dumping more (potentially obscene amounts) money into the eventual warpath kickstarter if that was the only thing I'd have to wait for, and if I hadn't spent a bunch right before it. We'll see though, I do tend to like the fluff books and I wouldn't mind reading through the digital rulebooks and stuff. And a few models are just too damn cool to pass up cold, but it might be worth doing so to be able to not having to watch this kickstarter and get updates for months.
One other thing that's making me hesitate was literally getting the last of my initial DB pledge items in my hands 2 days ago. Over a year since I got my first stuff from the very same KS. Now while it's not like I've painted everything (anything) and been on the edge of my seat for the last pieces (or even played a single game yet), it did make me think to myself "what the feth am I doing with this stuff? And do I really need to buy a ton more right now?"
I have picked up my painting a hell of a lot this year, but DB hasn't been in the running as it's been a mix of fantasy stuff, oddbods like zombies and apes - and scenery pieces. I'f I'd been playing DB regularly, I'd be all over this like a bad rash, but, well, I haven't - so it might be time to re-examine this one.
. I think at this point I'd like to get fancy dressing over *more* tiles over which to slave 
