Chopxsticks wrote:
wow, that seems a tad over the top, feels compounded by the fact there are no points rules.

So right out of the gates he has 8 attacks which look like they would one shot a unit of 8 or less models....?

No, you're combining both weapons into one.

Still pretty powerful though!

they could have included skarbrand in the current bt set. just added another sprue. there's no law that they can't have 3 or 4 sprues. they choose not too...

StarFyre wrote:
they could have included skarbrand in the current bt set. just added another sprue. there's no law that they can't have 3 or 4 sprues. they choose not too...

And another sprue would have pushed up the price even further, well over the $150 mark.

 Red_Zeke wrote:

Chopxsticks wrote:
wow, that seems a tad over the top, feels compounded by the fact there are no points rules.

So right out of the gates he has 8 attacks which look like they would one shot a unit of 8 or less models....?

No, you're combining both weapons into one.

Still pretty powerful though!

Still, on average, he'll dish out more than 8 wounds in the first round of combat when he's unwounded. He's "Incandescent" if he didn't attack in the prior battleround, meaning his first round of combat he can select re-rolls to hit and wound for Slaughter. So the first time he attacks in any game, Slaughter gets (at least) 4 attacks, of which 3 hit and 2.67 wound, multiplied by the damage of 3 would be 8 average wounds (not accounting for any leftover saves taken at -2 rend)

And then he attacks with Carnage, which can also select re-rolls for its 4+ to hit and its 5+ to inflict Total Carnage, leaving you with a ~42% chance of dropping 8 wounds onto another model from Carnage.

For extra fun, walk him into the enemy with Wrathmongers and open the portal of skulls, giving you 2 more attacks with Slaughter and two more attacks with Carnage.

interesting that they say his faction is Chaos Daemons in 40k, and Daemons of Khorne in AoS^^

Well. they've only really released Khorne for like.. ages.. Ages of Sigmar
DAM DAM DAAAAAAA

$130 gets you less and less by the month with GW. Skarbrand looks tiny.

Not sure what to make of SB. Overall I dont like him. Think its the lack of proportional balance :(

 Ghaz wrote:

StarFyre wrote:
they could have included skarbrand in the current bt set. just added another sprue. there's no law that they can't have 3 or 4 sprues. they choose not too...

And another sprue would have pushed up the price even further, well over the $150 mark.

The regular Bloodthirster was recommended for £69.99. Even knowing GW I can't see them changing another £30 for a single extra sprue.

Disappointing.

The model lacks any fluidity or motion. He looks more like a commander than an actual bloodthirsting rampaging giant killing machine.

GW could've done so much better

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Disappointing.

The model lacks any fluidity or motion. He looks more like a commander than an actual bloodthirsting rampaging giant killing machine.

GW could've done so much better

Please explain. To me, he looks like he's getting up close and personal with those 2 huge axes he's wielding. Plus, you can always paint him differently to make him look more bloody and violent.

Looks like a big daemon prince, which I find one of the worst GW models. Oh well. Interested to see Daemons of Khorne fleshed out.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Disappointing.

The model lacks any fluidity or motion. He looks more like a commander than an actual bloodthirsting rampaging giant killing machine.

GW could've done so much better

Please explain. To me, he looks like he's getting up close and personal with those 2 huge axes he's wielding. Plus, you can always paint him differently to make him look more bloody and violent.

I just find that he's too static, too grounded. I feel that he should look much more threatening and "Khorne-like" I guess, if he was jumping/charging into the melee, getting ready to tear his foes into very tiny bits.

He reminds me a lot of the Crom model, but I just find it doesn't fit into what Skarbrand is. He's supposed to be almost Rage and Fury incarnate, and yet his stance makes it seem like he's directing his forces instead of jumping into the fray first hand. It's fine for a character like Crom, but for Skarbrand?

heh...

Maybe I'm just too picky.

I agree. It's a boring model in my opinion too.

On the plus side the wings do not have the khorne runes. Its not earth shattering model but quite good for a generic demon.

Hate it. I'd rather buy and convert GW Balrog even if that synthol overdosed USA grindcore rocker of a daemon was free.

 NAVARRO wrote:
On the plus side the wings do not have the khorne runes. Its not earth shattering model but quite good for a generic demon.

The thing is... is it worth that much dough?

Have prices already been leaked?

MacMuckles wrote:
Have prices already been leaked?

80 pounds, 105 euros, 130 dollars yeah^^

 Atia wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
Have prices already been leaked?

80 pounds, 105 euros, 130 dollars yeah^^

Seriously? He's £5 less than the default Knight? Bloody hell, GW...

nudibranch wrote:

 Atia wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
Have prices already been leaked?

80 pounds, 105 euros, 130 dollars yeah^^

Seriously? He's £5 less than the default Knight? Bloody hell, GW...

Seriously indeed.

And I have a feeling they will keep rising... and rising...

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

nudibranch wrote:

 Atia wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
Have prices already been leaked?

80 pounds, 105 euros, 130 dollars yeah^^

Seriously? He's £5 less than the default Knight? Bloody hell, GW...

Seriously indeed.

And I have a feeling they will keep rising... and rising...

And the model quality will keep dropping...and dropping...

I feel like I'll just focus on upping my sculpting skills so that I can one day convert a balrog (which looks better in pretty much every conceivable way) into Skarbrand instrad of buying that mess of a mini :(

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Disappointing.

The model lacks any fluidity or motion. He looks more like a commander than an actual bloodthirsting rampaging giant killing machine.

GW could've done so much better

Please explain. To me, he looks like he's getting up close and personal with those 2 huge axes he's wielding. Plus, you can always paint him differently to make him look more bloody and violent.

I just find that he's too static, too grounded. I feel that he should look much more threatening and "Khorne-like" I guess, if he was jumping/charging into the melee, getting ready to tear his foes into very tiny bits.

He reminds me a lot of the Crom model, but I just find it doesn't fit into what Skarbrand is. He's supposed to be almost Rage and Fury incarnate, and yet his stance makes it seem like he's directing his forces instead of jumping into the fray first hand. It's fine for a character like Crom, but for Skarbrand?

heh...

Maybe I'm just too picky.

So, more like mine?

.

I know those axes... They're from Heresy Miniatures Netherlord kit

$130 for a special character only good for one army?

How many does GW expect to sell?

How many indy stores will carry this?

They're really really gambling on quality and brand loyalty selling.

I've changed my mind after spending time looking at the model and thinking about the price. I don't like it that much anymore and probably won't be buying it. Which is a shame, since he's pretty much my favourite character (evidenced by my username) and i can't bring myself to spend the money. If you can't even convince a fanboy, that's a really bad sign.

Should be way, wayyy cooler for 130 fething dollars. Sad thing is, gw will probably view its poor sales as a sign that people didnt really want a skarbrand model all that much, instead of realizing they did a gakky job representing him.

I got caught up in excitement just by the fact that there finally was a skarbrand model, but once logic had some time to set in i realized how much of a waste of money he would be. Let's hope future greater daemons follow a much better example.

I thought gw was a premium model company? I'm more disappointed in them than i've ever been.

RoninXiC wrote:
Well. they've only really released Khorne for like.. ages.. Ages of Sigmar
DAM DAM DAAAAAAA

Don't worry, we are soon back to your regular scheduled SigMarine programming

 Grimtuff wrote:


So, more like mine?

Spoiler:

.

Exactly!

That one has a predatorial stance. He is angry and coming to filet his enemies.

It transpires aggression and movement.

THAT is Khornate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
$130 for a special character only good for one army?

How many does GW expect to sell?

How many indy stores will carry this?

They're really really gambling on quality and brand loyalty selling.

~

Isn't that what they did with AoS as a whole?

nudibranch wrote:

 Atia wrote:

MacMuckles wrote:
Have prices already been leaked?

80 pounds, 105 euros, 130 dollars yeah^^

Seriously? He's £5 less than the default Knight? Bloody hell, GW...

Makes me so happy I don't need him for my army. Being a loyalist has its benefits.

I'm kind of over my curiosity for the Sigmarines. And all these Khorne figs are just taking 25% of what I liked about Chaos, without the other 75% to balance it out.

I'm glad that Skarbrand has finally come into existence. But what a price tag!!

I'm looking forward to what 'new' stuff AoS can come up with. Show me what weird fate has befallen all the elves, dwarfs, orc(k)s, and (non chaos) humans from the warhammer world!*


*examples must be in new model form, no blocks of text, illustrations, or old models will be accepted.

$130 at 30% off at my FLGS doesn't hurt that bad. I will pick one up. I like the model and the question is will I have it painted up for an event at the end of October or will it wait for Xmas

What the feth GW?

Bloodthirster AUD$155
Skarbrand AUD$225

The feth???

It's one sprue that's the same, and one new sprue in place of the old one? Why in the hell is it $70 MORE than the Bloodthirster.

Go on Talys. Defend this. I double-fething-dare you!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What the feth GW?

Bloodthirster AUD$155
Skarbrand AUD$225

The feth???

It's one sprue that's the same, and one new sprue in place of the old one? Why in the hell is it $70 MORE than the Bloodthirster.

Go on Talys. Defend this. I double-fething-dare you!

which sprue is the same???
it looks like everything is different, the pose, the torso, the head, the weapons, and the wings...
not that it justifies the price difference, but it looks like the two models will not be sharing any sprues...

anybody able to confirm???

cheers
jah

The website has the sprues. One of them is the same.

2 sprues, $225.





Excuse the space, it took a moment for that to process.
Also, what platform does the GW site become functional on? Everything I've tried is terrible.

I wish I could be shocked. Honestly. This just seems normal now for every GW release I see.

You are paying 100NZD MORE to swap out half the original blood thirster for a AOS brand blood thirster...

One sprue is the same, and it looks like the only things used off that sprue are the chest and back pieces as well as a few small armor pieces (what a waste of a sprue).

Holy hell he is expensive and I'm not sure why. I love GW, love 40k, love AOS, but G-D I can't stand these ridiculous price increases and there is no way I can defend this. He isn't a limited edition model. The only thing I can think of is they are probably assuming they won't sell as many kits as he is a specific character model (similar to a terminator librarian costing HALF of a 5 man terminator box set). But this is no different than a bloodthirster kit, people use magnets and 99% of the population isn't buying multiple base bloodthirster kits. I love the kit but may just use my custom model I have been using the past 5 years.

Geez GW.....

 455_PWR wrote:
One sprue is the same, and it looks like the only things used off that sprue are the chest and back pieces as well as a few small armor pieces (what a waste of a sprue).

Holy hell he is expensive and I'm not sure why. I love GW, love 40k, love AOS, but G-D I can't stand these ridiculous price increases and there is no way I can defend this. He isn't a limited edition model. The only thing I can think of is they are probably assuming they won't sell as many kits as he is a specific character model (similar to a terminator librarian costing HALF of a 5 man terminator box set). But this is no different than a bloodthirster kit, people use magnets and 99% of the population isn't buying multiple base bloodthirster kits. I love the kit but may just use my custom model I have been using the past 5 years.

Geez GW.....

But that excuse doesn't wash for them anymore, as their customers are collectors, meaning they expect to be selling just as many Skarbrands as anything else.

..... Well that's expensive.

It's something weird/crazy about Australia / New Zealand.

In the USA - Bloodthirster is USD $116, Skarbrand is $130. And Canada/Europe/UK, the prices are slightly more for Skarbrand like that (CAD $160, GBP 80, EUR 105)

Not sure about the other regions as I'm not familiar with their currencies. Considering it's a hero, and all heroes are just more expensive, the $14 seems ok; the $155->$225 seems crazy.

Incidentally, I have about given up on trying to understand the Australian pricing. Why is a Wraithknight $125, but Windriders $70 -- when USD the prices $115 for WK and are $41 for WR. I think I give up on trying to understand, because there seems to be no rational explanation. I feel sorry for you guys. Ironically, the AUD price for WK is cheaper than the USD price, after you factor in the tax included (I think 10%?) and the exchange rate of almost 25%.


@jah - this sprue is the same, but my Bloodthirster is still unbuilt, so I'm not sure how those parts turn into the Skarbrand model -- since the legs are on that sprue. On the bright side, kitbashing the two models will probably be highly compatible...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The website has the sprues. One of them is the same.

you could have at least posted a link...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Skarbrand-Bloodthirster

looking at those two sprues, there is no other explanaition for the price difference, other than the hero tax...

@Talys: Skarbrand's legs are on the new sprue...

i like this guy more than the Bloodthirster...
of course, i'll eventually get both...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

i like this guy more than the Bloodthirster...
of course, i'll eventually get both...

cheers
jah

Prices aside, I think it would look nice with a better paintjob, like the head wound actually looking gorey, and him overall looking more grimdark.
That said, I bought my second BT yesterday, to make a point. (not that gw care, still money in their pockets).

Lets just hope GW dont decide greater daemons is a low priority if this sells badly.

Edit: crap, I just realized the overpriced bloodthirster looked like a bargain next to scarbrand. They conned me!

I remember years ago when I used to play 40K over the internet, where we'd draw the battlefield like an old WD battle report with every individual model represented by a shape (eg Tyranid Gaunts would be triangles, Carnifexes would be large circles. Everything would be colour coded and tagged with text.

It must have been a nightmare to sort out which is why I always let me opponent draw the battlefield while I listened to Muse

But hey - any models I want at no expense

It's £80 for Skarbrand vs £70 for the normal Bloodthirster kit in the UK. For me, the extra tenner is worth it, simply because to my eyes the Skarbrand kit looks much better and more in line with how I'd expect a bloodthirster to look (versus the effeminate, prancing jump pose of the normal one).

I've never owned a Bloodthirster - used to fawn over them when I was a kid, and since I've had money they've kept replacing the kit with progressively uglier iterations - but I quite like this one and am tempted.

Ok, not as bad as I had thought thanks to ebay! Ebay gave me as $20 off my next purchase of over $100 coupon, and I found he is listed already for $105-$106 with free priority mail shipping.

Just got mine for $86 with free priority shipping... whew

I wanna see a side by side comparison with the new Bloodthirster before I even consider paying the premium for this kit.

I will say I like it overall. The wings, however, I think look ridiculous. If I get one, I'm gonna see if someone will trade a set of regular Bloodthirster or Hive Tyrant wings for the tattered ones...

-C6

Isn't that part of his fluff, though? His wings are supposed to be tattered and useless because Khorne got mad and kicked the crap out of him.

 Kirasu wrote:
Way better pose than the terrible posed bloodthirster.. but once again the GW sculptors mess up something so simple that detracts from the entire model.. Uh why is he holding the axes like that? It's such an obvious error I gotta wonder what goes on in the studio.

Perhaps because he is not yet in the fight yet and it is easier to carry the axes that way until it's time to use them. Remember, we're discussing what is supposed to be a 12' tall demon, so it would be possible to assume he has acquired some serious skills with those axes over the millennia far beyond what a short lived mortal has.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Isn't that part of his fluff, though? His wings are supposed to be tattered and useless because Khorne got mad and kicked the crap out of him.

Yep - He is not allowed to heal those wounds as they are part of his punishment and a reminder of his masters wrath.

As others have already noted - thats how you hold axes when not actually in combat

Well, given his main body/torso appears to be the part identical to the regular Bloodthirster, the regular BT-wings (or weapons) should slot in perfectly.

But yeah, Skarbrand can no longer fly. His Wings are useless. Many fan conversions have him without any wings at all. That's the entire point. He's a monstrous creature, not a flying monstrous creature.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Well, given his main body/torso appears to be the part identical to the regular Bloodthirster, the regular BT-wings (or weapons) should slot in perfectly.

But yeah, Skarbrand can no longer fly. His Wings are useless. Many fan conversions have him without any wings at all. That's the entire point. He's a monstrous creature, not a flying monstrous creature.

Thanks for the clarification, guys. I would maybe just leave off the wings entirely then.

-C6

 Sidstyler wrote:
Isn't that part of his fluff, though? His wings are supposed to be tattered and useless because Khorne got mad and kicked the crap out of him.

Yup, though I still prefer my "useless stumps" interpretation of the injury. As already mentioned, those wings look like the Zombie Dragon and Morghast ones, which are perfectly functional.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Isn't that part of his fluff, though? His wings are supposed to be tattered and useless because Khorne got mad and kicked the crap out of him.

Yup, though I still prefer my "useless stumps" interpretation of the injury. As already mentioned, those wings look like the Zombie Dragon and Morghast ones, which are perfectly functional.

Because Nagash Magic. In a similar form, Skarbrand is an extension of Khorne's will (as all Khorne Demons are). If he doesn't want Skarbrand to have functional wings, then they won't work.

He uses the same bloodthirster rear body/upper torso piece as the bloodthirster kit. I am thinking I may magnetize his wings and head so I can use regular bloodthirster wings and head as well.

This means this kit will provide me with a bloodthirster of all three types (twin axes could be used as one big axe, and I can throw a coiled whip on his base) and as skarbrand!

GW raises prices... I find ways to save

To be fair, on the 360 view of him, he actually looks pretty cool, proportions arent as bad as I thought and the wings look ok too.

 Ratius wrote:
To be fair, on the 360 view of him, he actually looks pretty cool, proportions arent as bad as I thought and the wings look ok too.

GW paint jobs and photos made a really cool model look way worse at first glance? Well I never!

Looking even better on the 360, I like is pose much more than the bloodthirster one.

As for the question if its worth the price tag? For some will for others not as much, personally I think its inferior to the Glottkin which I have in my collection so I believe this should be around the 60gbp mark and not more.

Yea he is nice. Most of the kits coming out of the GW foundry are (in terms of at least technical excellence) but 80 quid for plastic sprues... it hurts too much these days. In the past half year i have tapped out. In fact weirdly my GW "fix" is now going in to older finecast models. First cause they are now "reasonably" priced and 2nd how long before they are phased out? Honestly do a search of webstpre exclusives and there are still some real gems to be had. Krell for example.

Having said all that i would love to see when they get around to explaining Slannesh

 NAVARRO wrote:
Looking even better on the 360, I like is pose much more than the bloodthirster one.

As for the question if its worth the price tag? For some will for others not as much, personally I think its inferior to the Glottkin which I have in my collection so I believe this should be around the 60gbp mark and not more.

Do you use the Glottkin as a Great Unclean One?

 Bull0 wrote:
It's £80 for Skarbrand vs £70 for the normal Bloodthirster kit in the UK. For me, the extra tenner is worth it, simply because to my eyes the Skarbrand kit looks much better and more in line with how I'd expect a bloodthirster to look (versus the effeminate, prancing jump pose of the normal one).

This is what I don't get about GW customers these days.
You're happy to pay £10 more just because a previous (already overpriced) version was designed in a poor pose (Billy Elliot the Khorne Lord). They make a slightly better pose a year later with the same amount of plastic but a 14% increase?

I agree, it does look better. It isn't prancing - but then the way it's gripping the axes kills any desire to own it. I guess to make a decent version you need 2 kits. :-(

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
It's £80 for Skarbrand vs £70 for the normal Bloodthirster kit in the UK. For me, the extra tenner is worth it, simply because to my eyes the Skarbrand kit looks much better and more in line with how I'd expect a bloodthirster to look (versus the effeminate, prancing jump pose of the normal one).

This is what I don't get about GW customers these days.
You're happy to pay £10 more just because a previous (already overpriced) version was designed in a poor pose (Billy Elliot the Khorne Lord). They make a slightly better pose a year later with the same amount of plastic but a 14% increase?

I agree, it does look better. It isn't prancing - but then the way it's gripping the axes kills any desire to own it. I guess to make a decent version you need 2 kits. :-(

Just as GW intended. Exercise your creativity, and convert your own Skarbrand from 2 models for only 130 pounds. They might even make it easy for you and put that into a web bundle if you ask really nicely.

I think the axe pose is just fine for someone using 2 axes- you really don't want 2 two handed weapons in most cases.

Am I the only one who still prefers the Balrog as a bloodthirster? Used one before the "official" model came out and honestly have no desire to use the new rendition, had actually thought of making a skarbrand from the Vampire counts terrogheist.

Having had a chance to see the 360, having not bought any Bloodthirsters ever, and having a sizable chunk of credit sitting at the hobby shop... I think I may take the plunge.

Always wanted one. Never had the cash as a kid and was never impressed with the older models by the time I got interested in gaming again.

Having the shop's 30% off certainly helps push me into the "willing to pay" category. Otherwise, credit or not, I don't think I would.

Relapse wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Looking even better on the 360, I like is pose much more than the bloodthirster one.

As for the question if its worth the price tag? For some will for others not as much, personally I think its inferior to the Glottkin which I have in my collection so I believe this should be around the 60gbp mark and not more.

Do you use the Glottkin as a Great Unclean One?

Thats the plan I still need to sculpt his back with more spiky bits and bobs. The other brothers will be obviously a champ and wiz.
Glottkin model is quite original design wise and he is a BIG model packed with interesting things to paint up. Yes, its vastly superior to Khorne big demons IMO.

His AoS rules are really brutal, to those who care about that sort of thing.

I want to be excited for AoS releases, but their idea of a release schedule being a mix of "No magic guys with priests and big weapons" and "evil red no magic guys with priests and big weapons" is really trying my patience.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

His AoS rules are really brutal, to those who care about that sort of thing.

What's the point for drooling after AoS rules, if there's no proper army lists or points costs?

 prowla wrote:

 Thunderfrog wrote:

His AoS rules are really brutal, to those who care about that sort of thing.

What's the point for drooling after AoS rules, if there's no proper army lists or points costs?

What's the point coming into this thread to whinge about the game if you don't like it??

Fun?

He'll get some kind of comp value from one of the dominant systems. It's fun to think about how big/how many units he can take on solo.

Certainly interesting to see the AoS monster damage mechanic flipped on its head for a model.

$130! My lord, I remember when I thought a riptide for 86 was pushing it. This guy is not as big as a ritide and cost 44 dollars more... he is nice but that's getting a tad out of hand or I should say out of pocket lol. I am fairly sure GW is aware of online discounts and is adding that discount onto the SRP so they can make some more. Meanwhile that discounted price is what it should be retail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 455_PWR wrote:
Ok, not as bad as I had thought thanks to ebay! Ebay gave me as $20 off my next purchase of over $100 coupon, and I found he is listed already for $105-$106 with free priority mail shipping.

Just got mine for $86 with free priority shipping... whew

Exactly my point right here.

How does one go about getting a $20 off a purchase on ebay?? Does ebay send that $20 to the seller?

Chopxsticks wrote:
How does one go about getting a $20 off a purchase on ebay?? Does ebay send that $20 to the seller?

Yes.

I think my new hobby is just going to be staring in stunned incomprehension at the prices.

I could buy a significant part of an army for less than that one model.

 455_PWR wrote:
Ok, not as bad as I had thought thanks to ebay! Ebay gave me as $20 off my next purchase of over $100 coupon, and I found he is listed already for $105-$106 with free priority mail shipping.

Just got mine for $86 with free priority shipping... whew

LOL, that's funny I ordered mine for almost exactly the equivalent of USD $86 at my FLGS

 Talys wrote:
LOL, that's funny I ordered mine for almost exactly the equivalent of USD $86 at my FLGS

DCGM, amirite?

 Red Corsair wrote:
$130! My lord, I remember when I thought a riptide for 86 was pushing it. This guy is not as big as a ritide and cost 44 dollars more... he is nice but that's getting a tad out of hand or I should say out of pocket lol. I am fairly sure GW is aware of online discounts and is adding that discount onto the SRP so they can make some more. Meanwhile that discounted price is what it should be retail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 455_PWR wrote:
Ok, not as bad as I had thought thanks to ebay! Ebay gave me as $20 off my next purchase of over $100 coupon, and I found he is listed already for $105-$106 with free priority mail shipping.

Just got mine for $86 with free priority shipping... whew

Exactly my point right here.

Every new release will be more and more expensive because 80% of GW's customers are "collectors". Therefore, we will continue to collect and not worry about the price! Like fine art...except art that comes unassembled and unpainted.

Via FB

GW has Lowered skarbrands price on the Australian Web store by $25aud and on the New Zealand Web store by $30nzd, no other countries got a price drop

is this true ?

 reds8n wrote:
Via FB

GW has Lowered skarbrands price on the Australian Web store by $25aud and on the New Zealand Web store by $30nzd, no other countries got a price drop

is this true ?

Skarbrand was $225 AUD but is now $200 AUD...so it looks like this is true?

It's true at least for the AUS store.

Still stupidly expensive, though.

the 'original' prices were out of line even considering the crazy high Aus/NZ price banding though weren't they?

so the question in were they a mistake that they've just corrected?

or an attempt to see what happened if they jacked the prices even more (which probably showed they would get far, far fewer orders)?

They did seem like a mistake.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the 'original' prices were out of line even considering the crazy high Aus/NZ price banding though weren't they?

so the question in were they a mistake that they've just corrected?

or an attempt to see what happened if they jacked the prices even more (which probably showed they would get far, far fewer orders)?

I am betting on the latter.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They did seem like a mistake.

Wow. Even so, when's the last time they did that? Good on them, but still.

 pretre wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They did seem like a mistake.

Wow. Even so, when's the last time they did that? Good on them, but still.

Chaos space marine plastics IIRC, when they were originally 8 to a box yet the same price as Tacticals. GW lowered the price and even offered cash back to anyone who had bought them at the original price.

Even GW recognizes when their crazed commonwealth hating pricing robot goes too far.

 prowla wrote:

 Thunderfrog wrote:

His AoS rules are really brutal, to those who care about that sort of thing.

What's the point for drooling after AoS rules, if there's no proper army lists or points costs?

Because people play the game under various comps and systems. And even playing it uncomped, it's still a strong rule in a collection vs collection battle.

So are any Aussies who already paid for their preorder getting a partial refund?

Or did literally no one preorder and that was what prompted this.

The price was absurd but I don't believe it was just a mistake when they put it up on the webstore since White Dwarf listed it as $225.

 jonolikespie wrote:
So are any Aussies who already paid for their preorder getting a partial refund?

Or did literally no one preorder and that was what prompted this.

The price was absurd but I don't believe it was just a mistake when they put it up on the webstore since White Dwarf listed it as $225.

Mistakes do happen...

If it were one or the other I'd happily believe it a mistake, but with the amount of time in advance all this stuff is arranged it should NEVER have appeared both in WD and on the webstore if it was a mistake. You'd think they would have caught it right away too, this seems to have taken a couple of days to be 'noticed'.

I would say a mistake. The repacked plague censor bearers also had a mistake, although it was on the amount of models included rather than the price.

Of course it was a mistake... GW would never have changed the price otherwise. They don't give a rat's ass what players think about the prices.

My guess is they are fishing for the price ceiling. They were selling bloodthirsters at double the cost of the previous version, so they tried for more.

When they realized they hit the ceiling at $110 (based on low presales from flgs and online), they lowered the price. My guess is we will see this more as they try to inch price increases here and there.

It all comes down to that pesky price ceiling... what they can actually charge for items before the majority won't spend anymore.

Posts complaining about off topic posts are also off topic.

If you see a post you think is against the rules of the site - report it.

Thanks!

I went to my local gw, to but the kit, saw the price.... Left, I am not paying £80 for a bleeding bloodthirster.

 455_PWR wrote:
My guess is they are fishing for the price ceiling. They were selling bloodthirsters at double the cost of the previous version, so they tried for more.

When they realized they hit the ceiling at $110 (based on low presales from flgs and online), they lowered the price. My guess is we will see this more as they try to inch price increases here and there.

It all comes down to that pesky price ceiling... what they can actually charge for items before the majority won't spend anymore.

Last year, I had posted that I thought the entire AU/NZ region might be GW's pricing guinea pig. Basically, the best way to figure out how much people will pay for something is by actually setting the prices, and observing purchase patterns, and comparing those with both previous periods and other regions in the same period with different pricing.

But that's a form or market research.

And we all know what market research it...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
But that's a form or market research.

Market research in any form other than test markets works really badly for pricing, though, because NOBODY will tell you that they'll pay more for something. Most people don't even have any idea what the upper limit of their spending is on things they really want until they hit it. That's why things like sports and concert tickets keep going up in huge leaps; they're just creeping up the price until they hit some wall, and someone says, "No, I won't pay $15,000 a Superbowl ticket." (though that's a bad example, because lots of people are paying $15k or more for a Superbowl ticket).

Taking a sales region where other products are seemingly expensive anyways, and then using that to test higher prices, I guess, makes sense in a cruel way. Of course, you could totally alienate that market, too.

Concert and sports tickets might be a bad example here. There are a finite number of tickets to any such event pretty strictly determined by stadium/venue size. Supply is pretty much perfectly inelastic in the short term, to use the econ jargon. The price where supply and demand are equal is greater than the current price.

It is not clear this is the case with GW selling kits, and is likely as not the opposite. They have limitations on output like anyone, but except for those products they specifically make limited runs of, I have never heard of them selling out of a product. Not like PP did there for a bit. It seems like GW is operating somewhat under ideal capacity (80%), and no where near full capacity. The point where their output and demand for it are equal almost certainly has a lower price.

So GW has a very different problem to solve if trying to maximize profit (assuming that is their goal) than a concert venue or the like. GW might be able to make more money by either raising or lowering their prices, where as most venues with ever rising prices know which direction they are going. It's a tricky problem for GW, but many other companies seem to handle it a lot better. I am no expert on market research, but it seems to help other folks quite a bit.

Seen from Atia:

Next week hints from WD:
Help from Azyr - Death from the stars - the Tidewall rises

Could be Seraphon/Lizardmen related?

Anything other than good/bad power armour been released yet? Skaven?

There were Shaven repacks, but no new releases for anything other than Stormcast and Bloodhound. Though considering the whole line, I'd hesitate to call the latter "bad power armor".

Power armoured bad guys? What else are they, if not that?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Power armoured bad guys? What else are they, if not that?

Mostly naked bad guys with scarce, decorative bits of armour added to highlight the bulging muscles they like to parade about?

Ooh, colour me intrigued. Azyr could mean anything order related really, as that's where they were hiding during the Age of Chaos.

Let's hope it's not Stormcast related. Anything but Stormcasts

 Bottle wrote:
Ooh, colour me intrigued. Azyr could mean anything order related really, as that's where they were hiding during the Age of Chaos.

Let's hope it's not Stormcast related. Anything but Stormcasts

I think it might just be Lizardmen, as they've had a few kits marked as "Sold out, no longer available" for a while now. on the US site. Including Saurus Cav' and Temple Guard.

Definitely Seraphon.

 judgedoug wrote:
Definitely Seraphon.

Do you have a source on this or just speculation?

Because Azyr is where the Stormcast are holed up, and there's still some stuff we have not seen released.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Definitely Seraphon.

Do you have a source on this or just speculation?

Because Azyr is where the Stormcast are holed up, and there's still some stuff we have not seen released.

My source has been pretty badass in the past; I'll try to get confirmations.

So will this just be a case of rebranding the existing lizard men range or are we going to see the next 'proper' AoS faction with all the shiny toys that entails?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Definitely Seraphon.

Do you have a source on this or just speculation?

Because Azyr is where the Stormcast are holed up, and there's still some stuff we have not seen released.

My source has been pretty badass in the past; I'll try to get confirmations.

I really do hope you're right, I held off on grabbing some stuff for them because of the chance of having kits updated, faint though that is.
I would absolutely love an updated warrior kit. They're a little scrawny, especially compared to the Oldblood/Scar Veteran in the Carnosaur kit,
I'm not asking that they be quite that big, or brawny, but something in that general shape would be lovely.

Teaser from WD91 -

NEXT ISSUE: AID FROM AZYR, STARBORNE SLAUGHTER, THE TIDEWALL RISES...

Not exactly "Help" from Azyr (the translation), but I hope it's something new and shiny, and not just a repack

If they could get the proportions of a new warrior kit on to par with the body available with the Carnosaur, I would be a happy lizard.

I guess I could settle for a few new character models in a worst case scenario.

Please something besides just repacks!

It seems a bit unlikely there will be a massive amount of new figures for Lizard Men. GW clearly can't get stuff out the door very quickly, judging by the relatively few Sigmarine kits available, and the activity going on for 40K.

That said, I would be mildly interested in new or repackaged Lizardmen because I think I could save a lot of money by converting Papo and Schleich dinosaurs for an army.

There should be some round base re-boxes going on for Seraphon afaik^^

I hope they eventually get around to doing some of the other factions. Saying "we're a miniature company, not a game company" can only be taken serious if you actually put out new models.

(Ok, i lie, I'll never take them seriously when they use that lame excuse for bad rules. )

Yeah, I'm still holding to my suspicion that we're going to see far fewer new models than most expect. Outside of Sigmarines and BloodGore SkullTribe, have we seen any actual new kits? (Aside from terrain, obviously.) I don't think the Skaven got anything new after the Endtimes releases.

The "seraphon" already have a pretty extensive plastic range. I'd be surprised to see any additional kits beyond repacks.

Isn't the slaan still a notsofinecast model? I wouldn't mind seeing a plastic version with different options where you could build it as a regular slaan, Kroak or Tetto'eko. Or a box of plastic kroxigors?

But, I'm betting if anything it will just be the same plastic stuff repacked with round bases like they did with the treemen

With the regularity lizardmen armies run kroxigors and floating chairs of some sort, it's really silly we haven't seen plastic versions yet.

The Kroxigors are really ugly and out of date. Their positions were taken up by Darklands Dynndraig and Krokodar, who are a hell of a lot cooler looking. Always thought the old metals had really weird proportions. Looked kind of twisted up. Some modern sculpting would at least get them on par with all the modern lizard kits.

I've also wanted a Slann for years but refuse to buy either the metal or the finecast. Heck, I'd love a battery of floating fatties hovering around the battlefield muddling up my opponents' magic. Would make for great fun (my proxy Slann is a Mierce snakeman wizard accompanied by a bunch of snakemen acting as an honor guard).

Give me a reason to give you money GW! I dare you! I double dog dare you!

 judgedoug wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Definitely Seraphon.

Do you have a source on this or just speculation?

Because Azyr is where the Stormcast are holed up, and there's still some stuff we have not seen released.

My source has been pretty badass in the past; I'll try to get confirmations.

WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 93 (ENGLISH) 4
WARHAMMER: VISIONS 22 (ENGLISH) 12
TAU EMPIRE TIDEWALL GUNRIG Plastic Box 60
TAU EMPIRE TIDEWALL SHIELDLINE Plastic Box 55
TAU EMPIRE TIDEWALL DRONEPORT Plastic Box 50
BATTLETOME: SERAPHON (ENGLISH) Book (HB) 49.5
BATTLETOME: SERAPHON (FRENCH) Book (HB) 49.5
SERAPHON SAURUS WARRIORS Plastic Box 38
SERAPHON SKINKS Plastic Box 35
SERAPHON BASTILADON Plastic Box 60
SERAPHON STEGADON Plastic Box 58
SERAPHON CARNOSAUR Plastic Box 85
SERAPHON SAURUS KNIGHTS Plastic Box 35
SERAPHON SAURUS GUARD Plastic Box 55
SERAPHON TERRADON RIDERS Plastic Box 60
SKINK STARPRIEST Plastic Clam 20
SERAPHON THUNDERBEAST HOST Plastic Box 210
GAUNTS GHOSTS:GUNS OF TANITH (N/AMERICA) Novel 14
REALMGATE WARS: SANDS OF BLOOD (AUDIOBK) Audio Book 17.5
CHAMELEON SKINKS Finecast Clam 25 - DIRECT ONLY!
SERAPHON SAURUS ETERNITY WARDEN Finecast Clam 20 - DIRECT ONLY!
SAURUS SUNBLOOD Finecast Clam 25 - DIRECT ONLY!
SKINK PRIEST WITH FEATHERED CLOAK Finecast Clam 16 - DIRECT ONLY!
SAURUS SCAR VETERAN ON COLD ONE Finecast Clam 17 - DIRECT ONLY!
KROXIGOR Finecast Box 52 - DIRECT ONLY!
LORD KROAK Finecast Box 50 - DIRECT ONLY!
SERAPHON RAZORDON Finecast Box 30 - DIRECT ONLY!
SERAPHON SALAMANDER Finecast Box 30 - DIRECT ONLY!
SAURUS STARGLYPH BEARER Finecast Box 22 - DIRECT ONLY!
SLANN STARMASTER Finecast Box 50 - DIRECT ONLY!
SKINK STARSEER Finecast Box 50 - DIRECT ONLY!
BATTLETOME: SERAPHON (LTD ED.) Book (HB) 140 - DIRECT ONLY!

Thanks Judge

The Thunderbeast Host sounds interesting, hopefully a nice boxed set with some savings.

So how many posts until somebody in the States looks at the pre-orders on the New Zealand/ Aus site and says " $120 USD for some Skinks! They went up in price by 70%"?

So basically the same treatment as plague-themed Skaven got.

Any new stuff or price drops/raises there?

Just as i tought, its only some old kits reboxed. AOS is such a dissapointment. It seems as if GW want it to fail

 streetsamurai wrote:
Just as i tought, its only some old kits reboxed. AOS is such a dissapointment. It seems as if GW want it to fail

Yes sort of like how between every edition of WHFB and 40k and LOTR/Hobbit they deleted all old models and made all brand new ones, remember that guys?

I am already bracing myself to resist getting any of these ...

 judgedoug wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
Just as i tought, its only some old kits reboxed. AOS is such a dissapointment. It seems as if GW want it to fail

Yes sort of like how between every edition of WHFB and 40k and LOTR/Hobbit they deleted all old models and made all brand new ones, remember that guys?

Well, new editions of these game didnt break so drastically with the previous fluff. And we got new kits pretty much everytime a new codex for a race got released in previous editions.. Branding this as a brand new game set thousand of years after the fall.of the old world, and yet only recycling the old minis (bar the very boring eternals and bloodbounds) reeks of lazyness.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Well, new editions of these game didn't break so drastically with the previous fluff. And we got new kits pretty much everytime a new codex for a race got released in previous editions... Branding this as a brand new game set thousand of years after the fall.of the old world, and yet only recycling the old minis (bar the very boring Eternals and blood bounds) reeks of laziness.

Hardly laziness. It's not been 5mins since the Lizardmen had an update (WHFB 8th I grant you, but an update nonetheless).

I also seem to remember a large majority of folk frothing at the mouth that they wouldn't be able to get their hands on any of the current stuff that they love when AoS hit. They've already begun reboxing Skaven, Nurgle, and Khornate stuff for Age of Sigmar.

With such big catalog simply reboxing and add new bases is going to be a huge task.

Just wished they could get rid of finecast faster though its plain useless and I refuse to get any of it.

 NAVARRO wrote:
With such big catalog simply reboxing and add new bases is going to be a huge task.

Just wished they could get rid of finecast faster though its plain useless and I refuse to get any of it.

It's not really Finecast anymore. They're using the same resin as ForgeWorld do for their stuff now after the SNAFU they made with the crappy Finecast stuff. I can honestly say it's much improved!

Last finecast I bought was extremely crisp. Better details than even Kingdom death resins.

Soo I assume the new audio book is going to deal with tomb kings? *hype intensifies*

 shinros wrote:
Soo I assume the new audio book is going to deal with tomb kings? *hype intensifies*

Pretty much. The first part was the Hallowed Knights Stormcast chamber (and 7 other chambers) searching for an entrance to Nagash's crib.

Also as per Judgedoug's post earlier, I found this on another thread in here-

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
With such big catalog simply reboxing and add new bases is going to be a huge task.

Just wished they could get rid of finecast faster though its plain useless and I refuse to get any of it.

It's not really Finecast anymore. They're using the same resin as ForgeWorld do for their stuff now after the SNAFU they made with the crappy Finecast stuff. I can honestly say it's much improved!

Y'know that's really good to hear, I might be willing to try it sometime.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
With such big catalog simply reboxing and add new bases is going to be a huge task.

Just wished they could get rid of finecast faster though its plain useless and I refuse to get any of it.

It's not really Finecast anymore. They're using the same resin as ForgeWorld do for their stuff now after the SNAFU they made with the crappy Finecast stuff. I can honestly say it's much improved!

They are not using ForgeWorld resin. ForgeWorld resin doesn't work for spin cast moulds.

Forge World is still hand-poured resin in traditional two-part moulds (hence why you get the big resin-bricks on the parts, where they are poured into the mould).

The time it takes to dry makes it prohibitive to use in moulds made for spinning. They simply tinkered with their Finecast formula (and removed the tainted brand name).

Raging Heros did an overview (for their products).

http://www.ragingheroes.com/blogs/news/14122621-how-to-choose-between-metal-and-resin-heroines

Hand-poured resin is the traditional material preferred by high-level painters, collectors, and very demanding hobbyists. Hand-poured resin is a very slow and delicate process in which every step is completely hand-made. Moulds have a very short lifespan and in most cases, after 30 casts, a replacement mould has to be made, again from scratch. That's the reason why it is very hard to produce large quantities of hand-poured resin models. In the TGG Kickstarter, hand-poured resin Heroines were only available for pledgers of the limited quantity Connoisseur Box or Add-on which has been completely sold out already.

Spin-cast resin is a process that combines the machinery used for metal casting with a special resin material. These two elements allow for the rapid manufacturing of very large quantities of resin miniatures with great results and great quality.

The WD leaks started a few minutes ago - albeit in german.

I post the links and a few pics here but the issue (as rumored) shows products related to Tau, FW Corsairs, HH teaser (it says nothing except buy issue 93, it comes with a gift - and a symbol on top which could be the pin BrookM and Atia mentioned earlier) and Lizardmen.

http://www.gamestrust.de/news,games-workshop-bilder-wd-92-cover-tidewall-battletome-horus-heresy,id46772.html

http://www.gamestrust.de/bilder,list1266,1,white-dwarf.html





Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Lizzies/Seraphon are still the infantry of the Slann (quote)

70+€ extra for 6 pictures, some cardboard and a number? Seriously? That's it?

What's so super duper awesome about this "limited edition"?

Nothing, just like all their limited editions. They're for crazy people with too much money

 Mymearan wrote:
Nothing, just like all their limited editions. They're for crazy people with too much money

Kaching! Right on the monies!

Some of the past Limited Editions were worth it but nowadays... Blargh

The big beasty box for 161€ actually saves you a bit.
You, more or less, get the terradons for free.

btw: the white dwarf's title is more or less " Star Wars Warriors"

Also, checks out that faction battletomes will be priced just like codices are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RoninXiC wrote:
The big beasty box for 161€ actually saves you a bit.
You, more or less, get the terradons for free.

btw: the white dwarf's title is more or less " Star Wars Warriors"

*Plays Imperial March with Aztec drums and rattles*

Sorry... stronger than me

It would be a little *less* bad if they stopped renaming everything.. Slann Starmaster? Sunblood? That alone kills the fluff for me.

GW continually picks 3 prefix-suffix and spams them on every single unit.. A horribly childish naming convention.

I don't know, I really like the new Lizardmen names. Nowhere near Bloodblood McBloodgore of Khorne.

 Mymearan wrote:
I don't know, I really like the new Lizardmen names. Nowhere near Bloodblood McBloodgore of Khorne.

It's not as exagerated, that's for sure.

 Mymearan wrote:
I don't know, I really like the new Lizardmen names. Nowhere near Bloodblood McBloodgore of Khorne.

I suppose you're right since our expectations have been lowered by such a huge degree. Could be SunSlann Starpriest

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
I don't know, I really like the new Lizardmen names. Nowhere near Bloodblood McBloodgore of Khorne.

I suppose you're right since our expectations have been lowered by such a huge degree. Could be SunSlann Starpriest

StormSlann Starstormsunpriest!

Gonna pic up the lizard book, but don't think I really need anything else. Never did get one of those bastilidons though, but way too much stuff on my plate right now :(

If only they released Sauri looking like the artwork instead of those mangy...things.

My Bloodbowl Lizzies would finally happen!

I've wanted book inspired Saurus ever since I first laid eyes on GW's scalies.

Now would have been the perfect opportunity. Everyone loves lizardmen. They're such a fantasy staple, and some really rocking, modern tooled ones probably would bring in a fair bit of cash.

That is if GW wouldn't end up pricing them out of most normal people's budgets...

I can see the collector's editions being quite desirable. This is the first army book EVER for your chosen faction in Age of Sigmar. I'm going to be tempted when the Death and/or Empire (Free Peoples) ones come out.

Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

everything resin i have ordered from GW for the last few months of commission work has still been rubbish...
i would love to get a quality "Finecast" piece, but it hasn't happened yet...
bubbles, warping, and rubbery material are not encouraging me to buy anything in resin from GW direct for my collection...

Farsight, Golfag, and many others have been on my wish list since their release, but i don't trust the material...
i have to order a character for my next commission in November, so we'll see if there has been any improvement in the last two months since my last order...
the bendiness is the give-away...
FW resin is not as rubbery as the spin-cast resin...

as for the Lizzies, the last round of plastic Dinos were so awesome, there is not much that needed to be added to the range...
a switch from resin to multi-part plastic would be nice eventually, for the characters, though...

cheers
jah

I bought some High Elf characters a month ago and they were finecast. Maybe it's only for new batches that the resin changes. Some miniatures likely have mountains of finecast stock still.

Personally I think this was a wasted opportunity on their part to update some of the Lizardmen kits. A few are starting to show their age, or are available only in "finecast", rather than plastic.
They could even have used this to make one of their favorite things in the world, dual kits! There's not that much of a difference between Warriors and Temple Guard. A weapon swap, a head swap, and they'd be golden as far as I'm concerned.

As it is I'm probably not going to bother starting Lizardmen after all.

Boy am I glad I bought a Lizzie army (for KoW) just in time before they're repackaged with round bases.

Apologies if this has been posted, I'm guessing it's the LE Seraphon book:

Mixed reviews on finecast then, I'm not inclined to pay for expensive models just to find out for myself though.

Still a pass on finecast.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Mixed reviews on finecast then, I'm not inclined to pay for expensive models just to find out for myself though.

Still a pass on finecast.

Go to your GW/ other FLGS and look at the clam packs instead then?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Mixed reviews on finecast then, I'm not inclined to pay for expensive models just to find out for myself though.

Still a pass on finecast.

Who the hell is giving mixed reviews on Finecast? That stuff is universally hated for good reason.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Who the hell is giving mixed reviews on Finecast? That stuff is universally hated for good reason.

Some people have mentioned that they have switched form finecast to the FW stuff (but it still gets sold with the finecast label?) so it could be that somebody is getting better stuff.

I bought lots of Finecast Noise Marine bits directly from GW in December 2014 and they were very well cast, with only a few small bubbles, and were not made of that rubber-like material Finecast was infamous for. So yes, it seems that a part of the range is now getting better produced.

I saw other miniatures like the Eldar finecast Aspects though which are still bad.

Better not talk about the 2011/2012 Necron HQs which are imo unacceptable. My club colleagues bought some in 2014 and 2015. Their staffs and other parts are so bad, I would not paint these even if gifted. They bend, and either break or never seem to keep straight after using heat to fix them.

Some of the updated aos finecast models have been done extremely well. FW and above quality(when fw do it right anyway)

When finecast first came out, they were bad. I do remember hearing (through GW site or WD) they changed the finecast formula to the FW version. Since then I have not had an issue with the Finecast I buy. They (GW) should have renamed it (Finercast?) so folks wouldn't get confused...

There are stockpiles of older stuff sitting around. Some of the minis out there are still metal.

FYI, from what I'm seeing with my local GW store, if you're looking for square base lizardmen, you can grab them from the local stores this week, or off the website.

GW is basically forcing all their brick and mortar stores to get rid of all the square base stuff on the shelves and then put out the new stuff. Not even sell through it.

This happened when they redid the glottkin. All for a round base, a rules sheet and a different looking box.

Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

 Zywus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

Yeah but then they'd be giving free stuff out. GW hates that.

Well, unless the one poor bastard that makes up the marketing team convinces the Board that it will somehow directly lead to more model sales.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

Yeah but then they'd be giving free stuff out. GW hates that.

Well, unless the one poor bastard that makes up the marketing team convinces the Board that it will somehow directly lead to more model sales.

Just so you know, they actually did do that at some GW shops with the Necron and Space Marine releases. If you bought a set of Immortals, Warriors, or Tactical Marines without the 32mm bases the shops were given a supply of loose 32s to give to people that wanted them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

Yeah but then they'd be giving free stuff out. GW hates that.

Well, unless the one poor bastard that makes up the marketing team convinces the Board that it will somehow directly lead to more model sales.

Just so you know, they actually did do that at some GW shops with the Necron and Space Marine releases. If you bought a set of Immortals, Warriors, or Tactical Marines without the 32mm bases the shops were given a supply of loose 32s to give to people that wanted them.

That poor bastard got 'er done.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

Yeah but then they'd be giving free stuff out. GW hates that.

Well, unless the one poor bastard that makes up the marketing team convinces the Board that it will somehow directly lead to more model sales.

The cost of bases would be a tiny fraction of the cost to have boxes sipped back and repackaged. But I know that GW's decisions does not always seem very rational to us outsiders.

I suspect that they mainly want to avoid the confusion of having the same models simultaneously sold in different boxes (although they do that with deamons so...who knows, they probably just want to sweep old WHFB under the carpet as completely and thoroughly as possible)

I'm going for less sprues in the new boxes myself......

 Llamahead wrote:
I'm going for less sprues in the new boxes myself......

The new boxes have the same amount of models as the old ones so there's no change to the sprue number.

Actually some have more models in (temple guard) but cost more.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

They do NOT use FW Resin.

People complaining they still use Finecast are as bad you saying they use FW Resin.

It's a different resin than FW, and it's not Finecast.

I noticed on the NZ site with the repackaged Seraphon, they had gone back to calling it Finecast actually, instead of finely detailed resiin cast. Not sure if that was a mistake.

The limited edition looks beautifully done even if a bit pricey. I'm going to be very tempted when armies I collect are redone.

That Thunderbeast Host is a great deal, about $60 savings Canadian. Kind of wish they got a Bastiladon in there too so all the dinos were in one. Would love to play some games against an army made up like that.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

I doubt they use FW resin because that would require them to redo all the models again which would be pretty damned expensive. You can't just pour FW resin in to a finecast mould, the type of resin you use plays in to how you design the mould itself. I'd guess based on the way finecast is on sprues that entirely surround the model it's likely that it's some sort of injection process where as FW resin appears to be more like a process your average garage caster would use (with their big fat pouring points and chunky tab thingos).

FW stuff tends to not come on sprues and when it is on a sprue, the sprue is a small tab all on the one side of the casting (not the large frame type sprue that you get with finecast). So the manufacturing process must be quite different.

So i therms of prices all stayed the same? If that is the case

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

I doubt they use FW resin because that would require them to redo all the models again which would be pretty damned expensive. You can't just pour FW resin in to a finecast mould, the type of resin you use plays in to how you design the mould itself. I'd guess based on the way finecast is on sprues that entirely surround the model it's likely that it's some sort of injection process where as FW resin appears to be more like a process your average garage caster would use (with their big fat pouring points and chunky tab thingos).

FW stuff tends to not come on sprues and when it is on a sprue, the sprue is a small tab all on the one side of the casting (not the large frame type sprue that you get with finecast). So the manufacturing process must be quite different.

Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

 NAVARRO wrote:
So i therms of prices all stayed the same? If that is the case

Saurus Warriors and Saurus Guard (formerly Temple Guard) dropped in price per model, the latter by quite a bit actually.

Thats good news! Tempted with a small force of lizzies.

So, do you think they are getting Rid of the Old char and only keeping the "Leaders" like Kroak. Maybe Nagash and his mortarchs? But keeping the Characters models?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, do you think they are getting Rid of the Old char and only keeping the "Leaders" like Kroak. Maybe Nagash and his mortarchs? But keeping the Characters models?

They have gotten rid of a few models, it seems. The plastic oldblood is missing, for one. A few of the other hero models are gone as well, and some have been changed from named characters to generic ones.

 mikhaila wrote:
Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

I could be wrong, but finecast doesn't strike me as having been spun cast. The large frame you get on a finecast model is more something that doesn't really work with spin casting. My understanding was it was some sort of hybrid between regular resin casting and something more akin to plastic injection casting as those frames are more similar to what you'd get in that process. In spin casting it was my understanding that the vents have to be carefully angled, where as the vents on finecast models go every which way.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

I could be wrong, but finecast doesn't strike me as having been spun cast. The large frame you get on a finecast model is more something that doesn't really work with spin casting. My understanding was it was some sort of hybrid between regular resin casting and something more akin to plastic injection casting as those frames are more similar to what you'd get in that process. In spin casting it was my understanding that the vents have to be carefully angled, where as the vents on finecast models go every which way.

Yeah, I agree. I always wondered when people talked about Finecast using molds designed for metal.

From my understanding most metal models are spin cast in centrifugal rubber or silicone molds. The metal is poured down the center of a doughnut shaped disc and the centrifugal force pushes the molten metal outwards. To make it work, they use low melting point metals, like lead or pewter -- or they can use certain resins and thermoplastics.

But Finecast models look like the material is forced through a sprue (obviously, since they come on sprues...), and you wouldn't use a sprue system on a centrifugal mold, because that just doesn't make sense. Forge World models and Privateer Press resin pieces have the resin come in though big feeds on one end, and vents on the other, on the other hand, which is another process all together.

For the metal models, because the material is expensive, you don't want to leave too much excess material, so you don't have systems where you have sprues or large feeds. So, I don't see how any of the molds would be interchangeable Though, it is conceivable that the molds use the same equipment as some metal models? I don't know enough about the subject to be able to say -- these are just random thoughts.

In any case, Finecast models can be good or not so good, but the same goes with Forgeworld models. You can buy 2 Sicaran tanks, and one can be awesome, and the other can require *tons* of prep with all sorts of badly warped parts with scars all over the surface. I have 2 of the limited edition Centurions, and one is perfect, that will require 15 minutes to get ready; the other came with 5 hours worth of greenstuff, putty and sanding to prep. In the same way, I had a Sanguinor that was just awful, and another one that looks like it could be used for a magazine product photograph. It's one of the things I hate about resin... it's not consistent.

If finecast was made using the exact same moulding process as metal, metal would have the big sprues around them. So they must have done something different. Whatever it was, it didn't work.

 Talys wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

I could be wrong, but finecast doesn't strike me as having been spun cast. The large frame you get on a finecast model is more something that doesn't really work with spin casting. My understanding was it was some sort of hybrid between regular resin casting and something more akin to plastic injection casting as those frames are more similar to what you'd get in that process. In spin casting it was my understanding that the vents have to be carefully angled, where as the vents on finecast models go every which way.

Yeah, I agree. I always wondered when people talked about Finecast using molds designed for metal.

For the metal models, because the material is expensive, you don't want to leave too much excess material, so you don't have systems where you have sprues or large feeds. So, I don't see how any of the molds would be interchangeable Though, it is conceivable that the molds use the same equipment as some metal models? I don't know enough about the subject to be able to say -- these are just random thoughts.

Metal sprues are not really a cost issue, as you just chuck them back in the hopper and melt them again. On a material basis sprues and injection points are relatively more expensive in resin as you can't reuse the material.

I do think that the Finecast molds are based on some understanding of metal casting poorly applied to resin. The vents are not big enough and often not in the right spots for resin pressure casting, and as people have said I don't think the way the sprues are set up makes sense for spin casting. Further, many of the parts are just way too thin for resin, and only really work both in casting and using in metal. I'd say "stop gap" is just about the perfect description, as it certainly isn't a long term solution for any company that cares about quality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
If finecast was made using the exact same moulding process as metal, metal would have the big sprues around them. So they must have done something different. Whatever it was, it didn't work.

Not necessarily. Metal sprues would be valuable enough to cut off and reuse. Resin is lost once it is mixed, so it doesn't make sense to cut it off.

 Wehrkind wrote:
I do think that the Finecast molds are based on some understanding of metal casting poorly applied to resin. The vents are not big enough and often not in the right spots for resin pressure casting, and as people have said I don't think the way the sprues are set up makes sense for spin casting. Further, many of the parts are just way too thin for resin, and only really work both in casting and using in metal. I'd say "stop gap" is just about the perfect description, as it certainly isn't a long term solution for any company that cares about quality.

I don't think it was based on metal casting at all. If GW wanted to do proper resin casting they have more than enough experts employed that they could have done it properly.

I reckon it was just an attempt to make things cheaper, perhaps it's a process that's easier to automate or maybe the cure time is shorter or maybe they can get by with less trained staff. At a guess I'd say it's some sort of pressurized (but low pressure) injection process as in my mind that would make the most sense the way the sprues are laid out.

I figure they just got to the point where they were too heavily invested and/or didn't think the customer would care that the models were full of bubbles and snapped easily.

 mikhaila wrote:
My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months.

So AoS has hurt things? It didn't take up the slack at all?

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

Holy crap, that is almost Australian levels of bad right there.

I'm really curious, with AoS is the issue that it has been poorly supported and that no one cares about the too big a focus on the too few armies that have received any new models (or repacks) since it's release or have people stopped playing in store or buying old models too and just forgotten about AoS now that the initial buzz has died down?

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Of course, they have to do that. What if a new AoS player grabs a box and realizes that it hasn't got round bases when he gets home? On top of that, they have WHFB branding.

It would be cheaper for them to just send out a lot of bags with round bases and instruct the stores to hand them out to anyone who buy the kits packed with squares. It could be confusing for newcomers to have the WHFB branding I guess.

Yeah but then they'd be giving free stuff out. GW hates that.

Well, unless the one poor bastard that makes up the marketing team convinces the Board that it will somehow directly lead to more model sales.

GW rep asks the quantity of older things you have in stock and sends you replacement ones for free. Or, at least, this is how they deal with my FLGS. From spray paints to models. They even instructed them to throw out any Warhammer starter sets still in stock and gave them credit.

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

I don't think anyone expected that AoS would come near 40k dollars, though. The question is... when you compare AoS sales to WHFB sales, are AoS sales better compared to a year prior? Are there any sustained sales? If the 1/3 of sales that you got during the months (where there was no new 40k) were primarily AoS, then GW's experiment was a smashing success. If the 1/3 of sales was primarily 40k (in the form selling old stuff), and nobody bought AoS... then it was a horrible failure.

Is there any interest at all in the Seraphon? I don't think anyone cares in my local scene. The lizardmen boxes haven't moved for years, and I really doubt the new ones will either.

not surprised sales are way down. Be interested to see what some other stores are experiencing too but I assume similar results. All GW had to do was add some rules to make balanced pickup games weather it was points or you can only have this many warscrolls or whatever. I'm fine with the round bases and sigmarines and all, I just wish it were easy to show up at a store or club and say "I have 2000 points, who want's to play?"

Honestly I think it's the lack of new, exciting models. While I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who really like the Stormcast, they're only ONE faction. Khorne guys are ok but not really NEW new. Usually you would launch a game with 3-4 factions. In this case the only people who had any reason to buy anything would be Stormcast fans and Chaos Khorne players. The rest is old hat, which makes this less like a new game release saleswise and more like a new WHFB faction release with a few new Chaos models. Not surprised it hasn't made a big splash, and I wouldn't have expected it if I was GW. I'm sure they did anyway though which was mistake. This game will have to stand on its own and grow over time, it really can't ride WHFB's coat tails.

AoS is dead here. Nobody comes into the store and asks for a game atm. One problem with AoS is the lack of proper missions. There are several in the Sigmarine books but they are no exciting at all.

 Mymearan wrote:
Honestly I think it's the lack of new, exciting models. While I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who really like the Stormcast, they're only ONE faction. Khorne guys are ok but not really NEW new. Usually you would launch a game with 3-4 factions. In this case the only people who had any reason to buy anything would be Stormcast fans and Chaos Khorne players. The rest is old hat, which makes this less like a new game release saleswise and more like a new WHFB faction release with a few new Chaos models. Not surprised it hasn't made a big splash, and I wouldn't have expected it if I was GW. I'm sure they did anyway though which was mistake. This game will have to stand on its own and grow over time, it really can't ride WHFB's coat tails.

I don't think you should tag it that way. It's quite clear from the whole reboxing shenanigans that GW wants AoS to be separate from FB from the get go. This not a WHFB faction release - these are the AoS Seraphon!

The thing is, a game that is born with such a schism attached is not going to do well at the start, regardless.

I have made my opinions on AoS known but I am writing this from a neutral stance - either they make some really amazing, acessible and innovative introductions to AoS soon, or it is in serious jeopardy. The Seraphon release was underwhelming at best.

They clearly failed to excite people sufficiently at the beginning. If they planned for a big splash of short term profit from a bombastic release, they didn't succeed. But with the amount of planning and work they have put into this release (several years worth, apparently), they have to stick with it for the long haul. They simply can't afford not to. What this means is that the game will have the time to grow slowly, and hopefully it will.

 Mymearan wrote:
They clearly failed to excite people sufficiently at the beginning. If they planned for a big splash of short term profit from a bombastic release, they didn't succeed. But with the amount of planning and work they have put into this release (several years worth, apparently), they have to stick with it for the long haul. They simply can't afford not to. What this means is that the game will have the time to grow slowly, and hopefully it will.

For the sake of the players that have sunk thousands of $'s and €'s into it, I really hope it does.

The whole release planning seems shoddy to me, just a rehash of the usual Armybook release cycle, just tagged as Battletomes this time (and yes, yes you don't need to buy it to play etc, but this time they have that all new FLUFF in them instead of rules!) and with repackaging of boxes instead of new units.
Is this what Beastmen/Ogres/OnG players can expect? And more importantly, how long will Seraphon players have to wait for an actual new model?

And on a side note - how old are some of those sprues? I remember the Saurus are almost a decade old, or am I wrong?

I really really hope they have a proper update for one of the old factions coming soon. I think I heard something about a big AoS release this Christmas? Might be Dwarves or Elves.

 Mymearan wrote:
I really really hope they have a proper update for one of the old factions coming soon. I think I heard something about a big AoS release this Christmas? Might be Dwarves or Elves.

The logical step would be elves, as it would encompass three of the older factions in one swoop. I guess we'll have to wait for what the birds say.

And in the meantime, 40k/30k will keep saving the reports.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
They clearly failed to excite people sufficiently at the beginning. If they planned for a big splash of short term profit from a bombastic release, they didn't succeed. But with the amount of planning and work they have put into this release (several years worth, apparently), they have to stick with it for the long haul. They simply can't afford not to. What this means is that the game will have the time to grow slowly, and hopefully it will.

For the sake of the players that have sunk thousands of $'s and €'s into it, I really hope it does.

The whole release planning seems shoddy to me, just a rehash of the usual Armybook release cycle, just tagged as Battletomes this time (and yes, yes you don't need to buy it to play etc, but this time they have that all new FLUFF in them instead of rules!) and with repackaging of boxes instead of new units.
Is this what Beastmen/Ogres/OnG players can expect? And more importantly, how long will Seraphon players have to wait for an actual new model?

And on a side note - how old are some of those sprues? I remember the Saurus are almost a decade old, or am I wrong?

It's a really strange tactic, re-releasing old models as new factions. By pushing these reboxed kits out and insisting, "no no no, these aren't lizardmen, they're Seraphon, guys," GW is just reminding everyone about the destruction of WHFB, which for prospective players at best a non-issue, and at worst an insult. How do they expect this to play out?

^ well in GW's defense it's more like "They were the Lizardmen, and then the End Times happened, and a few more million years, and now they are the Seraphon".

They are a new faction that is a progression of the previous faction.

 Guildsman wrote:

It's a really strange tactic, re-releasing old models as new factions. By pushing these reboxed kits out and insisting, "no no no, these aren't lizardmen, they're Seraphon, guys," GW is just reminding everyone about the destruction of WHFB, which for prospective players at best a non-issue, and at worst an insult. How do they expect this to play out?

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. If anything, this should reassure people that their models are going to be good for a long time. What does it matter if they're for WHFB 8e rules or AoS rules? Base them however way you want, play whatever rules you want. The issue for GW is that nobody was buying lizardmen. Even if they pumped out 3 new model boxes, still... very few people would buy lizardmen. Same for bretonians and empire.

 Talys wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

I don't think anyone expected that AoS would come near 40k dollars, though. The question is... when you compare AoS sales to WHFB sales, are AoS sales better compared to a year prior? Are there any sustained sales? If the 1/3 of sales that you got during the months (where there was no new 40k) were primarily AoS, then GW's experiment was a smashing success. If the 1/3 of sales was primarily 40k (in the form selling old stuff), and nobody bought AoS... then it was a horrible failure.

Is there any interest at all in the Seraphon? I don't think anyone cares in my local scene. The lizardmen boxes haven't moved for years, and I really doubt the new ones will either.

Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

I don't think anyone expected that AoS would come near 40k dollars, though. The question is... when you compare AoS sales to WHFB sales, are AoS sales better compared to a year prior? Are there any sustained sales? If the 1/3 of sales that you got during the months (where there was no new 40k) were primarily AoS, then GW's experiment was a smashing success. If the 1/3 of sales was primarily 40k (in the form selling old stuff), and nobody bought AoS... then it was a horrible failure.

Is there any interest at all in the Seraphon? I don't think anyone cares in my local scene. The lizardmen boxes haven't moved for years, and I really doubt the new ones will either.

Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Tell that to Mikhaila, quoted above, who worked his butt off, and arguably put too much effort into fixing the "game." Positivity only sells so much product if no one wants it.

 Guildsman wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Tell that to Mikhaila, quoted above, who worked his butt off, and arguably put too much effort into fixing the "game." Positivity only sells so much product if no one wants it.

That is one hundred percent the wrong attitude. Despite your witty use of quotes, it is, in fact, a game, and one which does not need fixing. No wonder it's failing. You can't tell a customer "so here's a product that I think is broken and here's a way to change it to fit my own personal vision of what it will be, please spend money on it now". Anyone who does that is a fething moron and a gakky salesperson and deserves to never sell anything and have their business fall apart. You tell a customer "this game is good and fun and here's the reasons why". Then you sell through 80 copies and have a community actively involved in it.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Tell that to Mikhaila, quoted above, who worked his butt off, and arguably put too much effort into fixing the "game." Positivity only sells so much product if no one wants it.

That is one hundred percent the wrong attitude. Despite your witty use of quotes, it is, in fact, a game, and one which does not need fixing. No wonder it's failing. You can't tell a customer "so here's a product that I think is broken and here's a way to change it to fit my own personal vision of what it will be, please spend money on it now". Anyone who does that is a fething moron and a gakky salesperson and deserves to never sell anything and have their business fall apart. You tell a customer "this game is good and fun and here's the reasons why". Then you sell through 80 copies and have a community actively involved in it.

judgedoug, knowing Mik and how he runs his store as I do, you are so, so far wrong on this one. If anyone could sell AoS to people who were ambivalent, it was Mik. He has a really active store, a huge one by most game store standards, that frequently ran WHFB stuff, and had people playing at all times. Seriously, you are way, way off mark here.

AoS does not appeal to people who want a mass unit game with some sort of balance mechanic for pick up games. It appeals for other reasons, but not that. If your community likes the other reasons, they will pick it up, but if they don't, they won't.

 judgedoug wrote:
[Anyone who does that is a fething moron and a gakky salesperson and deserves to never sell anything and have their business fall apart.

Whoa dude. A bit harsh don't you think?

 Wehrkind wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Tell that to Mikhaila, quoted above, who worked his butt off, and arguably put too much effort into fixing the "game." Positivity only sells so much product if no one wants it.

That is one hundred percent the wrong attitude. Despite your witty use of quotes, it is, in fact, a game, and one which does not need fixing. No wonder it's failing. You can't tell a customer "so here's a product that I think is broken and here's a way to change it to fit my own personal vision of what it will be, please spend money on it now". Anyone who does that is a fething moron and a gakky salesperson and deserves to never sell anything and have their business fall apart. You tell a customer "this game is good and fun and here's the reasons why". Then you sell through 80 copies and have a community actively involved in it.

judgedoug, knowing Mik and how he runs his store as I do, you are so, so far wrong on this one. If anyone could sell AoS to people who were ambivalent, it was Mik. He has a really active store, a huge one by most game store standards, that frequently ran WHFB stuff, and had people playing at all times. Seriously, you are way, way off mark here.

AoS does not appeal to people who want a mass unit game with some sort of balance mechanic for pick up games. It appeals for other reasons, but not that. If your community likes the other reasons, they will pick it up, but if they don't, they won't.

Quoted for truth and all that stuff. I was barely on the fence till Mike's enthusiasm convinced me it was worth my money (and he had it on sale opening weekend, that helped too )

I'm still hoping GW will eventually decide to put together an official rulebook that balances things, in the meantime I'll keep on painting my sigmarines

 Talys wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

It's a really strange tactic, re-releasing old models as new factions. By pushing these reboxed kits out and insisting, "no no no, these aren't lizardmen, they're Seraphon, guys," GW is just reminding everyone about the destruction of WHFB, which for prospective players at best a non-issue, and at worst an insult. How do they expect this to play out?

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. If anything, this should reassure people that their models are going to be good for a long time. What does it matter if they're for WHFB 8e rules or AoS rules? Base them however way you want, play whatever rules you want. The issue for GW is that nobody was buying lizardmen. Even if they pumped out 3 new model boxes, still... very few people would buy lizardmen. Same for bretonians and empire.

I am happy the models haven't changed but would it be so hard for them to include both round and square bases? After all AoS dosn't care what base you use but 8th edition does, at least they could pretend to care about their old customers.

Daston wrote:
I am happy the models haven't changed but would it be so hard for them to include both round and square bases? After all AoS dosn't care what base you use but 8th edition does, at least they could pretend to care about their old customers.

Changing everything to round bases is (yet another) cost cutting measure, so they won't be including square bases as they're trying to phase them out.

Turn down the level of snark in here by at least 75%, lest additional users suffer moderator...displeasure.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

I don't think anyone expected that AoS would come near 40k dollars, though. The question is... when you compare AoS sales to WHFB sales, are AoS sales better compared to a year prior? Are there any sustained sales? If the 1/3 of sales that you got during the months (where there was no new 40k) were primarily AoS, then GW's experiment was a smashing success. If the 1/3 of sales was primarily 40k (in the form selling old stuff), and nobody bought AoS... then it was a horrible failure.

Is there any interest at all in the Seraphon? I don't think anyone cares in my local scene. The lizardmen boxes haven't moved for years, and I really doubt the new ones will either.

Oddly enough my FLGS moves AoS a lot more than they ever did with WHFB. But they also have a league running and lots of events and generally keep the atmosphere pretty positive for AoS. I would think one would be setting themselves up for failure if they badmouthed the game and didn't actively support it. You still have to sell product, the product doesn't sell itself.

Yeah, as a whole, the shop that I buy from also sells a lot more AoS now than WHFB. And I do mean, some stupendous factor, but WHFB sales were terrible before, so in that respect, they are quite happy. A lot of the cheaper terrain kits, too. But -- and I could be wrong -- I think it's still dwarfed by 40k, and I don't think in the Summer of Sigmar, the AoS sales came close to making up for no 40k releases.

 mikhaila wrote:

Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

Ouch.

Big ouch.

Nice to get some real numbers amist all the speculation, obviously you're just one vendor but a major one and certainly one devoted to the miniature hobby.

Out of curiosity are any of the other games out there able to make up for the sales?

I can also confirm over here in WA (near Seattle) AoS is pretty much non existent. Very small AOS in many stores.

There are zero aos players at our club, as soon as it dropped fantasy died, hard, which is a shame as we could have easily ignored aos and carried on with fantasy.

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

 Formosa wrote:
There are zero aos players at our club, as soon as it dropped fantasy died, hard, which is a shame as we could have easily ignored aos and carried on with fantasy.

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

There is lots of moving trays with holes. Though surprisingly few that has 25mm holes placed close enough together that they give the same footprint as ranking up 25mm squares. Back to basicks is the only store I can think of. I don't think that many people rebased for AoS anyway.

And it's not like GW is the sole supplier of square bases. If you don't have a million of them laying around from old puchases, you can buy new ones dirt-cheap from a million places.

I have millions of square bases because I keep buying WHFB kits for AoS :-p

I might look into getting some of those slotted movement trays when I feel like playing 8th edition as well.

 Bottle wrote:
I have millions of square bases because I keep buying WHFB kits for AoS :-p

I might look into getting some of those slotted movement trays when I feel like playing 8th edition as well.

Doesn't really matter since you can use whatever bases you like

http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

I wonder what terrain it could be?

 Janthkin wrote:
Turn down the level of snark in here by at least 75%, lest additional users suffer moderator...displeasure.

Yeah, I'd like to apologize for my tone and for basically violating the rule #1 of politeness. While I have my beliefs, I expressed them most inappropriately.

 Formosa wrote:

Now if all the boxes are being updated to use round bases, it's a further barrier to the people that just want to play fantasy, I'm hoping a third party makes movement trays to slot the round bases into and we can carry on.

It's not as if there's a shortage of 20/25mm square bases - they are quite popular with historics, in GW style, flat plastic, resin, mdf.

Was just looking through the lizards on the site, have to say they all look way better on round bases Never was a fan of the look of squares in general

Looks like I can already do a Thunderbeast Host and a Shadowstrike Starhost (or 2?)

Wish they would let me have skinks with bows though :( Guess they’ll just have to keep counting as blowpipes

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Well, there goes any chance of me buying some lizards. Too much finecast.

As I said in a previous thread (or this one- I forget which), GW no longer uses the Finecast resin. They now use the Forge World resin, which is infinitely superior to the Finecast crap.

One of them still says "finecast" in the description. It was quite reasonably priced too :(

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

Two things of interest for me here, firstly new scenery but second what is there definition of "large battles". There was talk initially of a release of a rule pack for large battles, perhaps xmas will see the release of this pack.

The round bases do make the models look much better, imho. I am still torn on basing...I love the look of the rounds, but have absolutely no interest in AoS whatsoever. Warhammer fantasy was and still is one of my favorite games...and it really was/is an equal measure of fluff, models, and game mechanics that made the whole package appealing to me.

The problem with using your models on rounds in a traditional movement tray based Warhammer game is that there is no analog to the 20mm square base. I play mainly Skaven, but also have Dark Elves, Night Goblins, Empire, etc. Which are all predominately based on 20mm bases...which have a specific footprint in a 5-model frontage. How do you base these on rounds and still put them in the traditional 5-model rank, even with a custom movement tray with round 'slots'?

I think I'm going to have to stick to the squares, as I just don't see a practical solution for this. Which is a shame, especially considering the re-packaging of these models are not including them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Originally Finecase was an attempt to use a cheaper product than metal in the exact same mold process they used for metal. Results were not good, as we saw. Metal is heavy and forces itself into the mold better as it spins. It wasn't innovation, it was a stopgap on the way to all plastic. They just stuck a nice label on a turd.

To put something in perspective: My sales dropped in half when GW got rid of metal and put half of the range on the website.

My sales dropped again by 2/3 when they moved to AOS and ignored 40k for 4 months. I'm now doing 1/6th of the sales of GW i did a decade ago. Much worse when you consider the raise in pricing. 1/10th the number of models? 1/20th?

Ouch.

Big ouch.

Nice to get some real numbers amist all the speculation, obviously you're just one vendor but a major one and certainly one devoted to the miniature hobby.

Out of curiosity are any of the other games out there able to make up for the sales?

Yeah I can only imagine how this is for retailers. This switch means that Warhammer is going to have very low sales for sometime. It can only be hoped that the video games that are out/are coming will help with exposure and bring in either new fans or create more of a promotional buzz around Warhammer to help elevate it some what because ATM GW is riding a deflated air balloon and everyone else is along for the ride it seems.

I thought about rebasing.. and I may some day, but right now it's too big of a job since pretty much everything I play is a horde army.

but if you're looking for 20mm round bases, check out Proxie Models

http://www.proxiemodels.com/

They're a little thinner than GW's standard bases but they're cheap and good

I just feel I should correct a persistant misconception that keeps popping up. GW does NOT use forge world resin for any of their kits save for ONE. Smaug from the hobbit range. Spin casting and hand casted rubber moulding techniques are not compatible with the same materials.

The finecast problems had a whole lot to do with inexperience with the casting equipment, bad quality control and their initial material choice not behaving as they had hoped. While it is true that they DO appear to be using the same kind of resin forgeworld uses for it's horus heresy infantry sized models, this is NOT because GW started using forgeworld resin to cast their models. It's because forge world produces it's smaller scale infantry models using spin casting with the same equipment and resin gw uses for the stuff-formerly-known-as-finecast. Yes the material has been adjusted since the initial finecast debacle but it is mostly down to more experience, and better quality control that models tend to come out much better now.

You know those base adapters that people made to go from 25mm round base to 32mm round bases?
I feel like there is probably a market for ones that adapt a 20mm square base to a round one (would they fit into a 25mm round, or would it have to be 32mm?), that way you could still play both AoS and WHFB, assuming you didn't glue them into the adapter (magnets instead somehow?)


EDIT: these type of things: https://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=761

Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

 notprop wrote:
Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

Work blocked for me, are the 20mm bases the same height as the GW bases?

 notprop wrote:
Seriously you fellers should do a bit more looking and a little less speculating.

There are plenty of people that sell 20mm round bases. For example;

http://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=20mm-round-(flat-x10)~hfrb20&category=accessories~plastic-bases

Must be easier. Round look but will rank the same as a 20mm square base.

Or you could get this and make them yourself

 Kanluwen wrote:

 reds8n wrote:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/11/02/a-new-table-to-battle-over/

The gaming hall here at Warhammer World is popular for friendly gaming, offering some amazing tables and terrain you’re unlikely to find elsewhere.

A new Warhammer Age of Sigmar gaming table will be unveiled on November 28th, and you can make table booking requests for it right now!

We can only say so much about this new board, as it is packed full of brand new and currently secret scenery kits, but it is 6×8 foot large and great for group games or large battles.

I wonder what terrain it could be?

FFS we still don't even know if the Sigmar-y temple building on the table from the AoS launch thing is an actual kit or them bodging together an unaffordable wadge of parts from other kits. All this "knowing wink", NO GURLS ALLOUD kiddy clubhouse BS is just getting ludicrous now, they seem to be doing it just for the sake of it, like keeping things from their customers is a compulsive disorder.

 Fango wrote:
The round bases do make the models look much better, imho. I am still torn on basing...I love the look of the rounds, but have absolutely no interest in AoS whatsoever. Warhammer fantasy was and still is one of my favorite games...and it really was/is an equal measure of fluff, models, and game mechanics that made the whole package appealing to me.

The problem with using your models on rounds in a traditional movement tray based Warhammer game is that there is no analog to the 20mm square base. I play mainly Skaven, but also have Dark Elves, Night Goblins, Empire, etc. Which are all predominately based on 20mm bases...which have a specific footprint in a 5-model frontage. How do you base these on rounds and still put them in the traditional 5-model rank, even with a custom movement tray with round 'slots'?

I think I'm going to have to stick to the squares, as I just don't see a practical solution for this. Which is a shame, especially considering the re-packaging of these models are not including them.

Hi,

I'd like to share what I've been doing. I went to walmart and bought 33 20mm washers for about 3$, and began rebasing my dwarfs. This way, they fit in my movement trays perfectly, and actually rank up better than they did before! Would highly recommend anyone making the change to AoS, who also wants to continue playing WHFB or KoW to do the same.

So, Hastings on Warseer posted a pic of what's apparently a three headed mount for Archaon.



http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?414414-Next-week-WD-hint-quot-Help-from-Azyr-quot&p=7562906&viewfull=1#post7562906

New mounted Archaon? Hmmmm.... Color me interested.

Plastic is always nice

hat-tip to the ever reliable Mr Hastings

A Demonic Chimera? Very interesting.

That will cost what... 120€?

Well, that looks incredible. I know what I'm getting for Christmas.

Edit: Three heads, three gods. Is the Pink Prince really gone?

The heads look very representative of the remaining original Chaos gods. Nice touch.

LOL Damn! I just bought the current one. Oh well that new model looks crazy cool.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Well, that looks incredible. I know what I'm getting for Christmas.

Edit: Three heads, three gods. Is the Pink Prince really gone?

Now THAT is awesome. The Everchosen is back and he means business. Apparently that is still Dorghar (previously a big horse) he's riding...

Wow, stunning model. Looks murder to paint though.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Well, that looks incredible. I know what I'm getting for Christmas.

Edit: Three heads, three gods. Is the Pink Prince really gone?

Now THAT is awesome. The Everchosen is back and he means business. Apparently that is still Dorghar (previously a big horse) he's riding...

Is there a Source for this, out of curiosity?

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Wow, stunning model. Looks murder to paint though.

No doubt Mr Rhodes or Emma will come up with a sufficiently awesome tutorial for that. (I hope)

 Bottle wrote:
I have millions of square bases because I keep buying WHFB kits for AoS :-p

I might look into getting some of those slotted movement trays when I feel like playing 8th edition as well.

Send the 20mm square bases over, I'm rebasing my entire HE army at the moment. Need like... 300 or so xD

That new Archeon with Chimera mount looks awesome!
They definitely needed a new Archeon model, the old one is nice but with all these other big kits coming out Archeon deserves some of the limelight!

 chiefbigredman wrote:
That new Archeon with Chimera mount looks awesome!
They definitely needed a new Archeon model, the old one is nice but with all these other big kits coming out Archeon deserves some of the limelight!

Funny enough the one I like best is still the one on foot. I think he looks the most menacing like that.

Dorghar is a daemonic steed- he can change into whatever form he likes


Customary crap photo from Warseer posted by Hastings:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Customary crap photo from Warseer:

Thank you

That model looks incredible.

In the dulcet baritone of George Takei... "Oh Myyyyyy....."

Oh man I want that guy to lead my legions of chaos... Warriors and Beastmen so far.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Wow, stunning model. Looks murder to paint though.

No doubt Mr Rhodes or Emma will come up with a sufficiently awesome tutorial for that. (I hope)

A three parter probably.

I was looking at the Warscroll really hard looking for a points cost...old habits .

Impressive model.

Can I get it for under a hundred though?

Not a chance... But with 20-25% you might! I know I will.

He has a hole in his sword. Should probably get that fixed...

My thoughts would be between £90 - £100 for him.

Amazing model though!

Huge model and quite fitting for Archaon.

Holy smokes. This is really quite fitting as a "centerpiece" model. Looks mind-blowingly awesome!

+ It seems to lack the Trish Morrison-esque giant hands and rippling lips so characteristic of GW large monster sculpts.

- It has skulls in its wings. Like it's made out of skulls. Another big ol' bag of skulls monster. I'm sorry, I love skulls just as much as the next guy but I prefer them on my dudes, not in them.

Noticed the 3 heads represent the Chaos gods Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle respectively (from left to right). Note the absence of Slaanesh...but, if you look at the bottom row of all caps keywords in the Warscroll...

Chaos, Daemon, Mortal, Khorne, Nurgle, SLAANESH, Tzeentch, 'something I cant read', Monster, etc.

Hmmm, I thought he was banished/destroyed in the new fluff?

*edit What does it all MEAN?!?