Only played 3 times, but our last was the biggest one.
Khorne had 75 I believe (2 groups of 20 bloodletters, 20 Blood Marauder guys, 10 blood warriors, skull portal, big beastie, whip man, mighty lord lord, herald blood letter)
Sigmar had 47 (6 groups of 5 liberators, dracoth rider, lanter guy, gryph hound, lord on foot, 6 bird men, 6 retrbutors, 1 storm/heal banner)
Played the watch tower mission, with Khorne defending the tower with 20 bloodletters. Mission seemed off as You can charge the tower turn 1. Only lasted 3 turns. was more in favor of sigmar
Glad I still occasionally follow the AoS rumour thread for this post alone! Just purchased a Garden of Morr on their website now Been wanting one for ages but left it too late and was gutted when it disappeared a few months ago. Big kudos for that post
Age Of Sigmar Core Rules wrote: Typically, a game with around a hundred miniatures per side will last for about an evening
I'm quite aware that one can project a variety of interpretations onto this, and I'm sure someone will come back and say 'but that's only an example' but I'd argue the reason this size of game was offered as an example was to plant an idea into players' heads that this is the size of game they should be playing.
It also says that you can play it with as many models as you like in the same paragraph But yeah, I agree -- this is probably the largest number of models I'd ever want to pls (most people don't want a game LONGER than an evening).
The biggest problem with AoS and big model count games, I think, is that the models can really hoof out across the board, so for any given model count, you need a bigger table than a lot of other games.
Age Of Sigmar Core Rules wrote: Typically, a game with around a hundred miniatures per side will last for about an evening
I'm quite aware that one can project a variety of interpretations onto this, and I'm sure someone will come back and say 'but that's only an example' but I'd argue the reason this size of game was offered as an example was to plant an idea into players' heads that this is the size of game they should be playing.
It also says that you can play it with as many models as you like in the same paragraph But yeah, I agree -- this is probably the largest number of models I'd ever want to pls (most people don't want a game LONGER than an evening).
The biggest problem with AoS and big model count games, I think, is that the models can really hoof out across the board, so for any given model count, you need a bigger table than a lot of other games.
Exactly...now if only they came up with a way to put the units together, maybe some form of organised unit standing shoulder to shoulder so it wouldn't take up so much room...........
Age Of Sigmar Core Rules wrote: Typically, a game with around a hundred miniatures per side will last for about an evening
I'm quite aware that one can project a variety of interpretations onto this, and I'm sure someone will come back and say 'but that's only an example' but I'd argue the reason this size of game was offered as an example was to plant an idea into players' heads that this is the size of game they should be playing.
It also says that you can play it with as many models as you like in the same paragraph But yeah, I agree -- this is probably the largest number of models I'd ever want to pls (most people don't want a game LONGER than an evening).
The biggest problem with AoS and big model count games, I think, is that the models can really hoof out across the board, so for any given model count, you need a bigger table than a lot of other games.
Exactly...now if only they came up with a way to put the units together, maybe some form of organised unit standing shoulder to shoulder so it wouldn't take up so much room...........
Well lets hope not.
A game can really be any size. My rotbringers have 24 models and i have faced off against between 15 - 130 models. With sudden death I've never felt I'm at a disadvantage and even not using sudden death I cant say I'm worried either way.
As for on topic the liberators box could have been less though id likely buy one to convert up the liberators I have from my second starter set
Glad I still occasionally follow the AoS rumour thread for this post alone! Just purchased a Garden of Morr on their website now Been wanting one for ages but left it too late and was gutted when it disappeared a few months ago. Big kudos for that post
Still no fortified mansion :( we missed out that by a couple of days. Fingers crossed it comes back.
I have noticed that some of the 8th edition kits are getting new boxes with round bases :(
Glad I still occasionally follow the AoS rumour thread for this post alone! Just purchased a Garden of Morr on their website now Been wanting one for ages but left it too late and was gutted when it disappeared a few months ago. Big kudos for that post
Still no fortified mansion :( we missed out that by a couple of days. Fingers crossed it comes back.
I have noticed that some of the 8th edition kits are getting new boxes with round bases :(
I doubt we'll see any of the really good stuff come back(Fortified Manor/Chapel/Skullvane Manse/the better two of the three towers), even if GW for some reason wanted to trigger nostalgia for the Old World in people they want to either drive away or convert into AoS fans, the moulds could be worn-out/intentionally destroyed by now. I'd love it if they did, I'd buy Skullvane Manse in a heartbeat, but it's not very likely.
@Thraxas Of Turai - How did you *find* Garden of Morr? It comes up when you search it, but if you click Scenery or Sigmar, and try to browse for it, the kit never comes up. It's a cool kit that has more stuff in it than it looks like from the box. Tons of conversion potential and bits. I'm glad it's available again.
Incidentally, it does NOT come up in Canada.
@Yodhrin - it's funny you should mention Skullvane Manse. I picked one up at a moving sale at a local hobby shop the other day for USD $39
I've actually done really well for Fantasy scenery recently, because a bunch of nearby hobby shops have been clearing out their old stuff in favor of AoS scenery, and I've been picking it up for 50% -- sometimes of a really outdated price.
Talys wrote: @Thraxas Of Turai - How did you *find* Garden of Morr? It comes up when you search it, but if you click Scenery or Sigmar, and try to browse for it, the kit never comes up. It's a cool kit that has more stuff in it than it looks like from the box. Tons of conversion potential and bits. I'm glad it's available again.
Incidentally, it does NOT come up in Canada.
Yeah I couldn't find it either.
That reminds me... I need to build mine. Need to find it first though...
Talys wrote: @Thraxas Of Turai - How did you *find* Garden of Morr? It comes up when you search it, but if you click Scenery or Sigmar, and try to browse for it, the kit never comes up. It's a cool kit that has more stuff in it than it looks like from the box. Tons of conversion potential and bits. I'm glad it's available again.
Incidentally, it does NOT come up in Canada
Simply AOS tab and then the scenery tab and it is under the "Age Of Sigmar Scenery" bit. I hope it makes it over to your part of the World.
Incidentally I was able to pick up the Garden of Morr from my local GW about 4 weeks ago after they found one in the store room, it is a great little kit.
Unfortunately it looks like only the Arcane Fulcrums from Storm of Magic are back here is Australia (and maybe the Walls and Fences/Unbundled Citadel Wood. I can't remember if they were there before).
Witchfate Tor is still listed as No Longer Available. I'd wish they'd go ahead and remove it already. It gets my hopes up every time only to dash them.
I've actually done really well for Fantasy scenery recently, because a bunch of nearby hobby shops have been clearing out their old stuff in favor of AoS scenery, and I've been picking it up for 50% -- sometimes of a really outdated price.
I tried this tactic at a local store that usually keps some old stuff on their shelfs, but basicly all of the nice scenery has been gone for a couple of months. Got their last chapel a few months back, and managed to get the last large wizard tower the other day.
Talys wrote: @Thraxas Of Turai - How did you *find* Garden of Morr? It comes up when you search it, but if you click Scenery or Sigmar, and try to browse for it, the kit never comes up. It's a cool kit that has more stuff in it than it looks like from the box. Tons of conversion potential and bits. I'm glad it's available again.
Incidentally, it does NOT come up in Canada.
@Yodhrin - it's funny you should mention Skullvane Manse. I picked one up at a moving sale at a local hobby shop the other day for USD $39
I've actually done really well for Fantasy scenery recently, because a bunch of nearby hobby shops have been clearing out their old stuff in favor of AoS scenery, and I've been picking it up for 50% -- sometimes of a really outdated price.
That's nice. Sadly in the UK we don't have nearly as many indie stores - I've rung literally every GW & non-GW store within cost-effective train riding distance and all the good terrain(basically everything except Witchfate Tor) has been sold out for ages. Since the only other option is paying £150+ on ebay, seems I'll have to do without.
Yod let me make a few enquiries I'm sure I know there's a couple somewhere I'm fairly sure I saw one not long ago. I can't promise completely but if I locate one ill let you know
I bought the last Garden of Morr in Poland a few days ago, found it on 30th page of google search after wading through countless gardening offers. No such luck witch chapel/ watchtower sadly so here's hoping those will be back.
Talys wrote: @Thraxas Of Turai - How did you *find* Garden of Morr? It comes up when you search it, but if you click Scenery or Sigmar, and try to browse for it, the kit never comes up. It's a cool kit that has more stuff in it than it looks like from the box. Tons of conversion potential and bits. I'm glad it's available again.
Incidentally, it does NOT come up in Canada.
@Yodhrin - it's funny you should mention Skullvane Manse. I picked one up at a moving sale at a local hobby shop the other day for USD $39
I've actually done really well for Fantasy scenery recently, because a bunch of nearby hobby shops have been clearing out their old stuff in favor of AoS scenery, and I've been picking it up for 50% -- sometimes of a really outdated price.
That's nice. Sadly in the UK we don't have nearly as many indie stores - I've rung literally every GW & non-GW store within cost-effective train riding distance and all the good terrain(basically everything except Witchfate Tor) has been sold out for ages. Since the only other option is paying £150+ on ebay, seems I'll have to do without.
I think I might have seen one on the shelves at the GW or "Warhammer" on Union Street in Glasgow. Not sure if you have already called there but it might be worth a shot if you haven't.
Just noticed more pics from the WD from BoLS. Some of these look really sharp! I love the one with the bow & arrow and the bird. It's a very convincing pose, IMO.
Your #1 rumour monger checking in with another great update:
Knight-Venator
Move 12"
Wounds 5
Bravery 9
Save 3+
Missile Weapons:
Realmhunter's Bow Range 30" / Attacks 3 / 2+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 1
Star-eagle's Celestial Talons Range 30" / Attacks 3 / 4+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Melee Weapons:
Star-eagle's Celestial Talons Range 1" / Attacks 3 / 2+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Fly
Celestial Talons
To wound rolls of a 6 for the Star-eagle's Talons have a Rend value of -3
Arrow of Astral Fate
Once per battle you can fire this arrow during your shooting phase. If you do this, the Realmhunter's Bow has an Attack value of 1 instead of 3, but a Damage value of d3+3 or, when targeting a Hero or Monster, d6+3.
Knight-Azyros
Move 12"
Wounds 5
Bravery 9
Save 3+
Melee Weapons:
Starblade Range 1" / Attacks 4 / 3+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 1
Fly
Bane of the Lost
During the shooting phase you may reroll to hit rolls of 1 against enemy units that are within 10" of this model.
Finder of Paths
Stormcast Eternals using the 'Lightning Strike' (provided by the Battalion rules) to deploy after the game has begun may always deploy within 5" of this model, even if that means that they deploy within 9 of the enemy.
Light of Sigmar
Once per game you can use this during your hero phase. If you do so, this model can't move, charge or pile in. Every enemy unit within 8" of this model instantly suffers d3 Mortal Wounds. Chaos units instead suffer d6 Mortal Wounds
Prosecutors with stormcall javalins and with celestial hammers are both prosecutors, but have separate warscrolls. They're all in units of 3 and a special weapon on 1 in 3. Both have:
Move 12"
Wounds 2
Bravery 6
Save 4+
Fly
Heralds of Righteousness
Roll 3d6 instead of 2d6 when charging.
Sigmarite Shields
Reroll failed save rolls of 1.
And then, javalin dudes are javelin/shield, with option for a trident. Prime does 2 attacks in the shooting phase.
Missile Weapons:
Stormcall Javelin Range 18" / Attacks 1 / 3+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Stormsurge Trident Range 18" / Attacks 1 / 3+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 2
Melee Weapons:
Stormcall Javelin Range 2" / Attacks 1 / 4+ to hit / 4+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Stormsurge Trident Range 2" / Attacks 1 / 4+ to hit / 4+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 2
Stormcall Javelins
When attacking an enemy 9" or more away from the shooting model, this weapon has a Damage value of 2 instead of 1.
Hammer dudes are double hammer or hammer/shield, with options for grandweapons. Prime does 3 attacks in the melee phase.
Missile Weapons:
Celestial Hammers Range 18" / Attacks 2 / 4+ to hit / 4+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Melee Weapons:
Celestial Hammers Range 1" / Attacks 2 / 3+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend 0 / Damage 1
Grandblade Range 1" / Attacks 2 / 3+ to hit / 4+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 2
Grandhammer Range 1" / Attacks 2 / 4+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 2
Grandaxe Range 1" / Attacks (see below) / 3+ to hit / 3+ to wound / Rend -1 / Damage 1
Celestial Hammers
When armed with more than one Celestial Hammer a model may reroll failed to hit rolls of 1.
Cleaving Strike
Pick a target unit for a model with a Grandaxe and do one attack against each model of that unit in range of this weapon.
I ordered my Gardens of Morr today. Pretty sure they just found some in a warehouse as it is unlisted right? I can't find it in the general scenery sections so I don't think it'll be back for long.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, weirdly if you go Scenery > Age of Sigmar it is unlisted, but if you go Age of Sigmar > Scenery, it's there :-p
455_PWR wrote: Anyone have info as to if we will see dracolith cavalry or what the Stormcast Eternal "monster" will be?
I see even with the rumors that we are missing a wizard... which can sometimes be a needed buff or necessary for cancelling opponent's spells.
I think we're unlikely to see Dracolith cavalry as they've made a special point of saying the one being ridden by the starter set bod is the first of his kind to cooperate with the sigmarites (although since this is an evolving world this could change)
as for big monsters that was, I belive, the big floaty stormcast guy and the even bigger price tag
455_PWR wrote: Anyone have info as to if we will see dracolith cavalry or what the Stormcast Eternal "monster" will be?
I see even with the rumors that we are missing a wizard... which can sometimes be a needed buff or necessary for cancelling opponent's spells.
I think we're unlikely to see Dracolith cavalry as they've made a special point of saying the one being ridden by the starter set bod is the first of his kind to cooperate with the sigmarites (although since this is an evolving world this could change)
as for big monsters that was, I belive, the big floaty stormcast guy and the even bigger price tag
"The big floaty Stormcast guy" isn't a Monster per his keywords.
Which is what is meant.
And if the Lord-Celestant on Dracolith was meant to be a one-off character, they would have made him a one-off character rather than a generic character in the rules.
I think it would be far more likely to see a generic "Lord-Celestant on Dracoth" character kit with multiple build options than a unit of cavalry for them, at least in the near future.
Want to play with more than 4 players? Well then buy crap directly from us and maybe you can! The brilliant moves that will carry this well balanced masterpiece of a game into the gaming limelight continue!
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's a free thing with an order. Hardly worth getting outraged over.
Precisely. It's not even a formation, it's a fething scenario, and it really shouldn't be difficult to make up a game where you can have more than two players.
JohnnyHell wrote: It baffles me that people can't and don't design their own scenarios on the fly anyway. Used to every game... :-/
I think I've only ever used a scenario in one of my games, and that was partially because neither of us had played for a couple of years and we tried playing a game by the books, as it were.
The pose looks strange to me however - the right leg in particular looks extremely awkward as it is raised for no reason, and the toe is jutting straight out. It appears that they just took a standing leg and rotated it slightly. Its all the more jarring because the left leg has the toe pointed in a more natural downward angle. Its almost like the model was supposed to be standing at one point and they decided to remodel it into a flying dude part way through development. On top of that... this model suffers from the fact that it has somewhat confused lines of movement... If he's moving forwards, the legs should be angled back. If he's moving backwards, his legs should be angled forwards. If he's hovering... his legs should be angled downwards... The drapery suggests either backwards or stationary movement. The model has one dangling leg angled forwards, and the second leg... BRACING ON AIR? The starter Prosecutors don't have this issue... they are obviously moving forwards. The Prime is obviously stationary above his maelstrom of gak.
I believe this is an issue with their CAD guys as niggles like this are less likely to occur when sculpting in a natural medium as the deficiencies are much more noticeable when the model being created is orientated with its intended scale and positioning from the get-go.
@Matt.Kingsley - Yeah, buddy of mine bought some Dreadhold kits. It would take 2 Basilica Administratum kits (at least) to make the 1 comparable wall; since the wall isn't "ruins" it requires 3 completed facings, whereas most cities of death buildings are really 1.5 facings. In dollar for building "square footage", it's definitely better than Shrine of Aquilla, which is one of the best deals for "big buildings" from GW. I think it's comparable, too , in price to the Wall of Martyrs fortification line. You don't get as wide, but you get much, much taller.
The other pieces are massive, too. The big Bastion kit is not comparable in value to Fortress of Redemption (one of my favorite kits for the price), though it's not far from Aquilla Strongpoint IMO.
The real problem isn't "it's going to be expensive to build a big fort"... it's that any fort you build on a table, unless it's at the edge and you're only representing one facing of the fort (which is what we're going to do), is just too big to play.
@keezus - the pose for Venator and Azyros is rather anime IMO. Imagine launching from a standing position, and launching backwards, while shooting forwards. The right leg is the one to lift first, the left the one to launch. The direction of the scrolly things indicates the motion in that vector.
I actually *really* like the pose. Venator (bowie with bird) is my favorite model of the entire Stormcast collection, I think.
Talys wrote: @keezus - the pose for Venator and Azyros is rather anime IMO. Imagine launching from a standing position, and launching backwards, while shooting forwards. The right leg is the one to lift first, the left the one to launch. The direction of the scrolly things indicates the motion in that vector.
Oh... I can imagine it, but it doesn't make any more sense. Try performing that action with your own legs... Launching backwards typically uses both legs, and the shoulders would be more square to the hips. This is a strange twisting motion while jumping (kind of) to one side - except when jumping to the side, to maintain balance, your weight is always launched on the leg closest to the direction you're going. I think they were going with something like (spoiler) for the pose, but not quite getting it... The chunkiness of the model doesn't really convey the nuances motion very well since the anatomy is completely hidden by inflexible armor plate. It's an aesthetic thing, so YMMV.
Someone better tell this athlete he's jumping wrong!
Well... it's a minor niggle, but he doesn't have an anime pose, nor is he shooting an arrow. Most obviously, he's not jumping backwards. It takes an eagle eye to notice the subtle difference, but he's not wearing armor either. It takes years of training to be able to jump with the grace of the Citadel Fine-Pose.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here we are... discussing the jumping mechanics of a FLYING model. Thanks GW. Where would I be without you.
As far as I can tell... they are intended to be light sort of like Bernini's Estasi Santa Teresa... though they aren't painted like that. The kind of stupid looking fan shape coming out from the lantern supports this theory. So... I guess the Sigmarines fly on the winds of magic... or whatever Citadel Fine-Etherium is the catchword of the day.
Talys wrote: @keezus - the pose for Venator and Azyros is rather anime IMO. Imagine launching from a standing position, and launching backwards, while shooting forwards. The right leg is the one to lift first, the left the one to launch. The direction of the scrolly things indicates the motion in that vector.
Oh... I can imagine it, but it doesn't make any more sense. Try performing that action with your own legs... Launching backwards typically uses both legs, and the shoulders would be more square to the hips. This is a strange twisting motion while jumping (kind of) to one side - except when jumping to the side, to maintain balance, your weight is always launched on the leg closest to the direction you're going. I think they were going with something like (spoiler) for the pose, but not quite getting it... The chunkiness of the model doesn't really convey the nuances motion very well since the anatomy is completely hidden by inflexible armor plate. It's an aesthetic thing, so YMMV. [/spoiler]
Yeah.. but.. uh... we don't have a ginormous 25' wingspan that allows us to fly from one realm to another
They look like they'd float and the wing positions may change in order for them to turn while moving.
In the book artwork (paintings), they appear to be flying in some scenes, and descending from the heavens in others. Either way.. they're... magical
But they SHOULD beat (or at least provide magical propulsion), because Retributors move 4", Most other foot units 5", Gryph Hounds 9", Dracoth 10", and all the winged units 12". Plus, they have the ability to Fly (as opposed to "glide"? not that this would make any game-sense... "jump off of bastion!")
The move on these suckers is actually huge on a 4x4 surface; it feels like they can be anywhere you want them to be. The Knight Venator has a range of 30", too, so on a table that's not dense, his effective range and firing lanes will be crazy. And he gets that D6+3 damage against hero/monster once per game.
I'm going to be really glad when the Age of Sigmar stuff is done with for a while, the only things that have remotely interested me have been the chaos bits and the prices have been unacceptably high.
I don't mind the Age of Sigmar stuff as much as I mind that it's only one and a half armies (and the stormcast eternals in particular are all similar looking infantry) and that as a Dark Angels player, I irrationally feel like their focus on AoS is keeping them from putting out new FAQs for the new 40k codexes they just released.
Erren wrote: I don't mind the Age of Sigmar stuff as much as I mind that it's only one and a half armies (and the stormcast eternals in particular are all similar looking infantry) and that as a Dark Angels player, I irrationally feel like their focus on AoS is keeping them from putting out new FAQs for the new 40k codexes they just released.
40k has been dying on its ass for as long as fantasy, yes its still popular but its fading away. People whining about AoS prices expect more of the same for 40k or worse, do remember 40k is the money for them so charging more they think they'd get away with.
AoS still has more to come in terms of stormcast and khorne, whether they mix releases again I imagine will determine what they want out and then what fantasy release they go for. I don't see aelfs or duardin soon but undead could be thrown some if I had to guess
An interesting snippet from the What's New Today post today:
Here’s what else you can expect to find in this week’s issue:
•A Battletome worthy of Sigmar himself.
•Upgrades for the Stormhosts.
•Pit the Celestant-Prime (out tomorrow) against the dark champions of the Chaos Gods in our exclusive battleplan, Martial Contest.
•Our first Sprues and Glue on the Stormcast Eternals.
•Armies on Parade: week 6. We take a look at some of our centrepiece miniatures, including a seriously rotten Warshrine.
•We present four warscrolls for all the new units. Yes, four! Watch out for those tridents.
•And plenty more besides, including lanterns, hammers, squigpipes and an important question about Slaanesh…
On top of that, Warhammer Visions 20 is also out tomorrow! We showed a few pages of it last Friday, but here are a few more to whet your appetite.
The upgrade packs come with 5 of the Liberator shields (one for a Prime), and 3 Prosecutor shields (one for a Prime), 8 regular, sculpted shoulder pads, 6 Paladin shoulder pads, and 5 Paladin icons.
CragHack wrote: Oh man, I'm so hyped about Slaanesh. Hope, it's good news
From the White Dwarf? Just a minor piece in "Ask Grombrindal" after a punter asked about the whereabouts of Slaanesh.. Nothing new just a re-iteration of the AOS fluff of Tyrion and Morathi(?) capturing the Dark Prince.
And the Night Goblin piece is a just a bit in "Bit/Instrument Of the week" which just pictures the old squig herders with pipes and cymbals.
As for the bits packs I think the round Prosecutor shields will be seeing a lot of action in 40k Ultramarine armies, very Roman in look and execution.
Barzam wrote:That's a bit boring for the upgrade packs. I was hoping for some new heads or weapons thrown in.
They're the equivalent of the old chapter sprues for space Marines where you got 5 shoulders and 5 backpacks. They don't really mix with each other or the stock equivalents, because the heraldry is stormhost specific.
I know what you mean, though, they would be cool if they were like the new chapter upgrade sprues.
usernamesareannoying wrote:putting the stormcast completely aside there's still every other race to touch on. I can't image that they're not all going to change in some way.
In fairness there have been new Chaos models, and a bunch of faction agnostic scenery
Yeah, for sure :( Kind of expected it, though. I'm glad it wasn't Centurion pricing ($78)... I had been bracing myself, since I had known from the start the Prosecutors box would be an auto-buy for me. My wife wants 9 prosecutors (the 3 from starter box, plus 2 more of boxes), and Venator and/or Azyros -- but she plays at AoS at a friend's home. I have no idea what I'm going to do for her to transport 11 winged dudes. She will probably want to play Celestant Prime too >.<
Incidentally, Prosecutors do not really transport well in the new citadel zig-zag cases. The wings are a bit catchy, and there are overall just too many parts sticking out.
I think the Prosecutors would benefit from a large and spacious magnetized container.
I want some, as well as the hero, but I dread the thought of bringing them anywhere. Especially as I usually just toss all my plastic junk in some Mantic VHS boxes whenever I want to play a game, and I'm good to go.
Don't think that's going to work with this new stuff.
I realized what was bugging me about the Venator. He is basically trying this pose:
but failing at it. Instead of leaping away and firing behind him, he's doing a strange version of this:
It really does look like the model was originally standing on stairs, with his right side higher than the left, then just got lifted into the air mid process without addressing the legs and how far apart they are.
i think the pose looks cool...
it works very nicely on the Venator firing his bow, which is the version i like the most...
that little Phoenix is awesome...
i am digging the "rays of light" style they have gone for with the wings of these guys...
GW's designers are really taking their plastics to a whole new level this year!!!
jah-joshua wrote: i think the pose looks cool...
it works very nicely on the Venator firing his bow, which is the version i like the most...
that little Phoenix is awesome...
i am digging the "rays of light" style they have gone for with the wings of these guys...
GW's designers are really taking their plastics to a whole new level this year!!!
cheers
jah
I thought it was a phoenix as well, but it's just an eagle apparently.
I don't mind the stormcast, unlike many, but I think that hornblower is the dumbest thing I've seen from AoS so far. Blows a horn, but has a helmet on. Really? Have the designers just given up on the stormcast at this point? Hopefully this means we'll be getting some more non-stormcast soon, because that's just stupid. If anything it could be the first unhelmeted eternal, but they had to make it match the rest and make it stupid
It's easy! Sigmar wills the winds of a hurricane through the mouthpiece of the mask and through the horn, thus making the sound of celestial trumpets, thus heralding the arrival of his primarch, Sigmarcus Aurelius.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I seriously question the ability of a metal man to blow a horn.
Or a skeleton.
I'm not sure why people keep referring to the Stormcast Eternals as "metal men". They're still mortal flesh underneath the armor, and it's not like there are not eye holes on the helmets so why not a mouth hole?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Clearly he is trying to wrap his mind around the idea of a horn with finite internal volume and infinite surface area. Give the guy a break.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I seriously question the ability of a metal man to blow a horn.
Or a skeleton.
I'm not sure why people keep referring to the Stormcast Eternals as "metal men". They're still mortal flesh underneath the armor, and it's not like there are not eye holes on the helmets so why not a mouth hole?
Its AoS, if the whiners can find something to whine about no matter how stupid it is they will whine.
To be fair these are some of the better looking stormcast released so far
Rygnan wrote: I don't mind the stormcast, unlike many, but I think that hornblower is the dumbest thing I've seen from AoS so far. Blows a horn, but has a helmet on. Really? Have the designers just given up on the stormcast at this point? Hopefully this means we'll be getting some more non-stormcast soon, because that's just stupid. If anything it could be the first unhelmeted eternal, but they had to make it match the rest and make it stupid
LOL. Yeah. But it's a magical trumpet
I think it would have looked more stupid to be the only guy with a non-helmed head. But the whole idea of trumpeteers and horn-blowers in an army is foreign to me anyhow. Must be a cultural thing!
The models aren't bad, but not nearly as exciting as prosecutors for me. I think the winged dudes were the biggest draw to AoS for myself. I just love those (non-transportable) wings.
Talys wrote: I think it would have looked more stupid to be the only guy with a non-helmed head. But the whole idea of trumpeteers and horn-blowers in an army is foreign to me anyhow. Must be a cultural thing!
More of a period thing, when you didn't have radios to keep in contact with your troops.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I seriously question the ability of a metal man to blow a horn.
Or a skeleton.
I'm not sure why people keep referring to the Stormcast Eternals as "metal men". They're still mortal flesh underneath the armor, and it's not like there are not eye holes on the helmets so why not a mouth hole?
Its AoS, if the whiners can find something to whine about no matter how stupid it is they will whine.
To be fair these are some of the better looking stormcast released so far
WHF did have a skeleton hornblower. Never could quite wrap my head around that one.
Medium of Death wrote: I thought it might have been a bizarre telescope considering Sigmar's sign is that of the twin tailed comet.
Maybe he's watching the skies for some reason...
He's called a Knight Heraldor.
Heralds traditionally announce things, what with the horns and fanfare.
But seriously, it's not that hard to justify this. There's mouth holes in the helms. The Stormcast can communicate amongst themselves with speech and communicate with others using speech, so obviously they can y'know...talk.
The dude is covered in bones though. Like literally strapped to his armor.
Him wearing a skull helmet (you can actually see the screws/ nobs on it from behind), being covered in rattley bones that were once inside some other guy's body, and waving around the bones of some dead dude he knew is part of his whole shtick.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Clearly he is trying to wrap his mind around the idea of a horn with finite internal volume and infinite surface area. Give the guy a break.
Is he a Knight Scotus?
Unfortunately, I don't get the reference and Google keeps pointing to a recent Supreme Court ruling, which Probably isn't what you mean.
I was just making a calculus joke, perhaps the nerdiest kind of joke. With calculus jokes, there is no limit to the nerdiness, even if they are mostly derivative.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Clearly he is trying to wrap his mind around the idea of a horn with finite internal volume and infinite surface area. Give the guy a break.
Is he a Knight Scotus?
Unfortunately, I don't get the reference and Google keeps pointing to a recent Supreme Court ruling, which Probably isn't what you mean.
I was just making a calculus joke, perhaps the nerdiest kind of joke. With calculus jokes, there is no limit to the nerdiness, even if they are mostly derivative.
He basically asked "How many non-corporeal beings can fit in the smallest physical space we can imagine?" - but asked it more like "How many angels can fit on the head of a pin?"
For that and other overly subtle points, his followers were called "dunces" and well, you know.
Anyway, while I'm not liking the Sigmarites, and the Chaos stuff is just More Of The Same Khorne Krud, I do look forward to when GW re-does the 'existing' races for AoS!
I am painting the Lord Relictors helmet-head/ head-helmet gold so to me it is definitely a helmet. Or a skull that has been dipped
In gold. I think my point is I do not know which it is.
Not too keen on the standard or musician, especially after the coolness of Knight Azyross. Far too many character models in the Stormcast Eternal line for me as well. A greater variety of skank and file would be better.
Hero hammer is back. In all seriousness though hero's add so much to their forces its hard not to include them. The stormcast hero's in particular add a lot to the stormcast units really just depends what they do in order to see if they replace other hero's or if they simply add them in
Motograter wrote: Hero hammer is back. In all seriousness though hero's add so much to their forces its hard not to include them. The stormcast hero's in particular add a lot to the stormcast units really just depends what they do in order to see if they replace other hero's or if they simply add them in
On the bright side of that, Knight Venator is a pretty awesome hero slayer!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Clearly he is trying to wrap his mind around the idea of a horn with finite internal volume and infinite surface area. Give the guy a break.
Is he a Knight Scotus?
Unfortunately, I don't get the reference and Google keeps pointing to a recent Supreme Court ruling, which Probably isn't what you mean.
I was just making a calculus joke, perhaps the nerdiest kind of joke. With calculus jokes, there is no limit to the nerdiness, even if they are mostly derivative.
He basically asked "How many non-corporeal beings can fit in the smallest physical space we can imagine?" - but asked it more like "How many angels can fit on the head of a pin?"
For that and other overly subtle points, his followers were called "dunces" and well, you know.
Anyway, while I'm not liking the Sigmarites, and the Chaos stuff is just More Of The Same Khorne Krud, I do look forward to when GW re-does the 'existing' races for AoS!
Ah, thanks. I had heard his work paraphrased, but never knew to whom to attribute the origin.
I really like the look of every Sigmarite mini so far...but can't stomach their prices. 50% off would get me to buy, but not MSRP.
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I seriously question the ability of a metal man to blow a horn.
Or a skeleton.
I'm not sure why people keep referring to the Stormcast Eternals as "metal men". They're still mortal flesh underneath the armor, and it's not like there are not eye holes on the helmets so why not a mouth hole?
Its AoS, if the whiners can find something to whine about no matter how stupid it is they will whine.
To be fair these are some of the better looking stormcast released so far
WHF did have a skeleton hornblower. Never could quite wrap my head around that one.
Well, I mean...that's simple enough. The skeleton hornblower is the remains of a former regimental musician, with enough of their former personality hanging around to go through a gruesome parody of playing musical signals. Obviously it's not going to produce any noise, but it's tragic, darkly amusing, and probably seriously unnerving for the other side.
This guy, on the other hand, is supposedly one of the finest warriors eight separate worlds have to offer, imbued with the power of a god and drawing on countless memories of battles gone by. He really should know enough not to poke himself in the eye with his trumpet.
...Sigmar doesn't seem like a very bright deity, these days...
And I don't see any mouth holes...it looks like the lips are a molded part of their masks? Could be wrong, can anyone with Stormcast models confirm that?
TheWaspinator wrote: Yeah, I seriously question the ability of a metal man to blow a horn.
Or a skeleton.
I'm not sure why people keep referring to the Stormcast Eternals as "metal men". They're still mortal flesh underneath the armor, and it's not like there are not eye holes on the helmets so why not a mouth hole?
Its AoS, if the whiners can find something to whine about no matter how stupid it is they will whine.
To be fair these are some of the better looking stormcast released so far
WHF did have a skeleton hornblower. Never could quite wrap my head around that one.
Well, I mean...that's simple enough. The skeleton hornblower is the remains of a former regimental musician, with enough of their former personality hanging around to go through a gruesome parody of playing musical signals. Obviously it's not going to produce any noise, but it's tragic, darkly amusing, and probably seriously unnerving for the other side.
This guy, on the other hand, is supposedly one of the finest warriors eight separate worlds have to offer, imbued with the power of a god and drawing on countless memories of battles gone by. He really should know enough not to poke himself in the eye with his trumpet.
...Sigmar doesn't seem like a very bright deity, these days...
And I don't see any mouth holes...it looks like the lips are a molded part of their masks? Could be wrong, can anyone with Stormcast models confirm that?
Stormcasts have eye slits as well as mouth slits in their helmets. I think re positioning the arm will not be too hard to have the horn aligned with the mouth and likely a small modeling error in assembly for the showcase mode. Many times they do not actually glue them together but blue tac them so they can reposition them easily (not sure if this was done in this case). Of all the things one could complain about in terms of design, complaining about the horn really seems to be scraping at the bottom of the barrel.
Well, if you wanted to get really in-depth, I'm pretty sure you'd need more than a mouth slit to sound that trumpet, but so long as they at least made a nod toward it, I suppose that's all right. The model itself looks kinda neat, in the same way that most of the Stormcast look kinda neat, but it still feels like it should be part of a centerpiece unit in a more varied force.
Fair point on the horn, but seriously. That's something they should have caught. Between the modeler, the photographer, their editing people...someone somewhere down the line should have pointed out that the way they had him put together makes it look like he's trying to peer through the trumpet at the approaching enemy hordes. If they put their display models in a silly pose and then publish pictures, I am absolutely going to make fun of them.
"They're getting REALLY close now, Not-Battle-Brother! Ooh, that one looks angry..."
Maybe this is what happens when you turn a goblin into a Stormcast Eternal?
zreef wrote: Of all the things one could complain about in terms of design, complaining about the horn really seems to be scraping at the bottom of the barrel.
People have been complaining about lots of things; the silly horn positioning is just the latest. The model line has lots of mistakes that are surprising from one of the largest companies in the industry, especially at that price point. The refrain "That's a silly thing to complain about!" is a constant, however. Which is strange to me. It is not clear what would NOT be a silly thing to complain about, if just about every particular of the models that people dislike (pin heads, strange jumping poses, exceedingly difficult to use musical instrument/armor combos, and peering through the instrument being the first four to pop to mind) is too silly to bring up.
Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
Unless you are looking at a different picture, its anything but clear. I too zoomed way in and still couldn't make anything out beyond a normal helmet.
TBH though I would not be at all surprised for GW to have fluffed it as some sort of spyglass. It wouldn't be the stupidest thing they have put on a model.
I hope that works. I personal don't care for this model, but it is a plastic miniature that has been poorly posed and painted.
Edit. Still no good. Never posted a picture on here before. is there a high quality setting?It is a picture from the free iBooks preview of the Stormcast battle tome. In the process of taking a screenshot and uploading it has lost a lot of detail. The original photo is pretty sharp. I assumed everyone had seen it.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
LOL, he probably won't make many saves wearing one of those!
And even without zooming, I can see little doodads on either side of his mouth. The painter may have even made that part skin toned but the pic is too blurry to tell.
And why wouldn't he point the horn up in the air? Should he point it towards the ground or something? Come on...
But I agree if it's closed, it would be a little silly.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
Maybe he's just finished sounding the horn? That's what the pose looks like to me.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
Maybe he's just finished sounding the horn? That's what the pose looks like to me.
Looks like he's had a blow, it made no sound, so he's checking for obstructions?
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
Maybe he's just finished sounding the horn? That's what the pose looks like to me.
Looks like he's had a blow, it made no sound, so he's checking for obstructions?
jonolikespie wrote: Huh, zooming in am I the only one who noticed that he is holding that horn in a kinda suss way?
it's alright by the looks of the horde coming his way he'll be dead soon...on another note since they are wearing full helms how is he sounding the horn? I betcha he's pushing a button and the sound just comes out
jonolikespie wrote: Huh, zooming in am I the only one who noticed that he is holding that horn in a kinda suss way?
it's alright by the looks of the horde coming his way he'll be dead soon...on another note since they are wearing full helms how is he sounding the horn? I betcha he's pushing a button and the sound just comes out
As noted earlier, the hornblower isn't wearing a full mask; hi mouth and chin are exposed so he can blow on his horn.
"To use The Telescope Of Ashrah, place a toy telescope (or cardboard tube) to your eye and shout "FOR SIGMAR!" Upon doing so, this grants D3 rerolls for that turn.
Skaven players may wish to apply a ring of black paint to the eyepiece of the toy telescope/tube. If they succeed in getting the Sigmarite player to print a black ring on their eye, the Skaven player immediately wins the game."
Kilkrazy wrote: If they release Storm Caste cavalry will they be called Knight Ridors?
LOL!
If you actually think about it, mounted knights make no sense when you can give your knights wings that allow them to fly faster than the mounts can charge But then again, when did not making any sense ever stop GW from making a cool looking mini
Kilkrazy wrote: If they release Storm Caste cavalry will they be called Knight Ridors?
LOL!
If you actually think about it, mounted knights make no sense when you can give your knights wings that allow them to fly faster than the mounts can charge But then again, when did not making any sense ever stop GW from making a cool looking mini
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Unless of course the enemy is fleeing, then they could harass the fleeing enemy but so can horse... just horses do all the other combat jobs too.
In sieges however flying soldiers would be amazing to have, and for scouting.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
LOL, he probably won't make many saves wearing one of those!
And even without zooming, I can see little doodads on either side of his mouth. The painter may have even made that part skin toned but the pic is too blurry to tell.
And why wouldn't he point the horn up in the air? Should he point it towards the ground or something? Come on...
But I agree if it's closed, it would be a little silly.
Whoops yea Margarine helmets would be so gross too.
I don't know about you, but whenever the horns finish blowing they are promptly angled downwards, it also does not explain why he seems to be looking through it, I think it's likely the way the model has been assembled, it's likely you can assemble it at the mouth but maybe it slid up during the glue process or something.
I don't know I usually don';t complain and when you get it and it is that tiny you will never notice. But the large scale image looks like he is peeking into the hole maybe something is blocking the way?
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Yeah, but these winged knights actually use their wings as melee weapons when they get close The wings let them fly... and double as light sabers! In seriousness, your point is well taken; generally speaking, heavy cavalry would be better in a scrum than flying beasts that can swoop in.
Thematically, Sigmar is an idiot, however. At the very least, he is not a WAAC God. He should have made all the Sigmarites Knights Venator: flying archers that can one-shot anything from a grunt to a hero... and then just shoot all the Chaos and Undead guys from a 30" diagonal, airborne! Whatever would the Orcs (uh... Orrucks?) do?
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Yeah, but these winged knights actually use their wings as melee weapons when they get close The wings let them fly... and double as light sabers! In seriousness, your point is well taken; generally speaking, heavy cavalry would be better in a scrum than flying beasts that can swoop in.
Thematically, Sigmar is an idiot, however. At the very least, he is not a WAAC God. He should have made all the Sigmarites Knights Venator: flying archers that can one-shot anything from a grunt to a hero... and then just shoot all the Chaos guys from a 30" diagonal, airborne!
What I would do, is build large tower frames on wheels, at the top of these frames have shields and ammunition. Then I would have the flyers hovering behind the shield firing down into the enemies while the foot soldiers engaged. I will be able to replace dead archers with new ones because they can fly up and ammo can go up and down. If your enemy cannot fly they cannot get to you and even if they can your archers can fly away.
Now that would make a cool fantasy models/scenario.
Kilkrazy wrote: If they release Storm Caste cavalry will they be called Knight Ridors?
LOL!
If you actually think about it, mounted knights make no sense when you can give your knights wings that allow them to fly faster than the mounts can charge But then again, when did not making any sense ever stop GW from making a cool looking mini
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Unless of course the enemy is fleeing, then they could harass the fleeing enemy but so can horse... just horses do all the other combat jobs too.
In sieges however flying soldiers would be amazing to have, and for scouting.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
LOL, he probably won't make many saves wearing one of those!
And even without zooming, I can see little doodads on either side of his mouth. The painter may have even made that part skin toned but the pic is too blurry to tell.
And why wouldn't he point the horn up in the air? Should he point it towards the ground or something? Come on...
But I agree if it's closed, it would be a little silly.
Whoops yea Margarine helmets would be so gross too.
I don't know about you, but whenever the horns finish blowing they are promptly angled downwards, it also does not explain why he seems to be looking through it, I think it's likely the way the model has been assembled, it's likely you can assemble it at the mouth but maybe it slid up during the glue process or something.
Is it really so difficult to imagine for the horn being slightly higher than it needs to be for a brief moment? Honestly it looks like it's directly in front of his nose, like he's in the midst of raising it but still surrounded by dudes who are trying to, y'know, kill him.
And comparing this sort of thing to real world militaries is kinda dumb, what real world winged creatures are used in combat that you are comparing horses to? How can you make those comparisons without making assumptions? How can you say a horse has more shock value than someone who can fly? What evidence do you have to provide?
And why expect him to just put it down right away? Again, you're making a comparison between actual militaries and a fantasy military.
Kilkrazy wrote: If they release Storm Caste cavalry will they be called Knight Ridors?
LOL!
If you actually think about it, mounted knights make no sense when you can give your knights wings that allow them to fly faster than the mounts can charge But then again, when did not making any sense ever stop GW from making a cool looking mini
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Unless of course the enemy is fleeing, then they could harass the fleeing enemy but so can horse... just horses do all the other combat jobs too.
In sieges however flying soldiers would be amazing to have, and for scouting.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
LOL, he probably won't make many saves wearing one of those!
And even without zooming, I can see little doodads on either side of his mouth. The painter may have even made that part skin toned but the pic is too blurry to tell.
And why wouldn't he point the horn up in the air? Should he point it towards the ground or something? Come on...
But I agree if it's closed, it would be a little silly.
Whoops yea Margarine helmets would be so gross too.
I don't know about you, but whenever the horns finish blowing they are promptly angled downwards, it also does not explain why he seems to be looking through it, I think it's likely the way the model has been assembled, it's likely you can assemble it at the mouth but maybe it slid up during the glue process or something.
Is it really so difficult to imagine for the horn being slightly higher than it needs to be for a brief moment? Honestly it looks like it's directly in front of his nose, like he's in the midst of raising it but still surrounded by dudes who are trying to, y'know, kill him.
And comparing this sort of thing to real world militaries is kinda dumb, what real world winged creatures are used in combat that you are comparing horses to? How can you make those comparisons without making assumptions? How can you say a horse has more shock value than someone who can fly? What evidence do you have to provide?
And why expect him to just put it down right away? Again, you're making a comparison between actual militaries and a fantasy military.
Sigh.
Yes it is, because its a huge horn, if you don't mind someone raising a horn to eye level "just finishing using it" then fine, but id wager it's not common at all to hold the horn higher up your face than your mouth for reasons. Can you give me a reason why someone would do this?
Because flying means you are more fragile. Most flying things are protected by one thing... speed and agility. Why would you be scared of something that's gonna die on impact with you? Think about how things fly... then think about what happens when these flying things crash into things. Put the two together and you get fragile. Horses however do not have this problem, a horse will still die if it charges an enemy unit that doesn't break, but the unit is more likely to break if horses charge it. Another reason is when flying you need a lot of space per flying object, this means your flying men are a lot less dense than the cavalry which are less dense than the infantry. Being dense is number 1 safety against shock units (like horse) and so flying units would suffer greatly if the enemy don't break and they struggle to evade zooming at their target. Each man now has to fight 3 or more soldiers on the ground which means death. Remember a horse has breaks, something flying does not have breaks. If their target does not break, how do the flying units avoid crashing to their deaths?
There is my evidence, prove me wrong. Simply think about how wars work, then think about how flying things work, then put it together.
What is the fantasy excuse for using the horse as an eye glass? Especially a horn of this size?
Just pointing out that my original point is that there is plenty of good reasons to have Cavalry despite having flying troops.
Kilkrazy wrote: If they release Storm Caste cavalry will they be called Knight Ridors?
LOL!
If you actually think about it, mounted knights make no sense when you can give your knights wings that allow them to fly faster than the mounts can charge But then again, when did not making any sense ever stop GW from making a cool looking mini
Actually I think a horse is more suited to combat than someone who can fly. The horse has much greater shock value and is much more resistant to arrows than something with wings. Wings would be way better for scouting, but if those winged creatures tried to engage another unit they would have a worse time than horse would, at least the horse has a shock value to it. Flying units would just lose their wings to ranged weapons in a flash.
Unless of course the enemy is fleeing, then they could harass the fleeing enemy but so can horse... just horses do all the other combat jobs too.
In sieges however flying soldiers would be amazing to have, and for scouting.
Chikout wrote: Looking at the picture of the hornblower, you can quite clearly see a triangular slot cut into the bottom of the helmet leaving his lips and chin exposed. Unfortunately the painter took rather less care than the designer and painted this gold too. I know Age of Sigmar bashing is a popular sport around these parts, but taking a moment to use your eyes before rushing to judgement wouldn't hurt.
I zoomed in to like 500% and it looks like a standard margarine helmet. It does have some weird shine near the mouth of the helmet but still. Is there a better picture somewhere?
It also doesn't change the fact he looks like an astronomer trying to find some stars. Or maybe he is doing a staring into the sun competition with his mates.
LOL, he probably won't make many saves wearing one of those!
And even without zooming, I can see little doodads on either side of his mouth. The painter may have even made that part skin toned but the pic is too blurry to tell.
And why wouldn't he point the horn up in the air? Should he point it towards the ground or something? Come on...
But I agree if it's closed, it would be a little silly.
Whoops yea Margarine helmets would be so gross too.
I don't know about you, but whenever the horns finish blowing they are promptly angled downwards, it also does not explain why he seems to be looking through it, I think it's likely the way the model has been assembled, it's likely you can assemble it at the mouth but maybe it slid up during the glue process or something.
Is it really so difficult to imagine for the horn being slightly higher than it needs to be for a brief moment? Honestly it looks like it's directly in front of his nose, like he's in the midst of raising it but still surrounded by dudes who are trying to, y'know, kill him.
And comparing this sort of thing to real world militaries is kinda dumb, what real world winged creatures are used in combat that you are comparing horses to? How can you make those comparisons without making assumptions? How can you say a horse has more shock value than someone who can fly? What evidence do you have to provide?
And why expect him to just put it down right away? Again, you're making a comparison between actual militaries and a fantasy military.
Sigh.
Yes it is, because its a huge horn, if you don't mind someone raising a horn to eye level "just finishing using it" then fine, but id wager it's not common at all to hold the horn higher up your face than your mouth for reasons. Can you give me a reason why someone would do this?
Because flying means you are more fragile. Most flying things are protected by one thing... speed and agility. Why would you be scared of something that's gonna die on impact with you? Think about how things fly... then think about what happens when these flying things crash into things. Put the two together and you get fragile. Horses however do not have this problem, a horse will still die if it charges an enemy unit that doesn't break, but the unit is more likely to break if horses charge it. Another reason is when flying you need a lot of space per flying object, this means your flying men are a lot less dense than the cavalry which are less dense than the infantry. Being dense is number 1 safety against shock units (like horse) and so flying units would suffer greatly if the enemy don't break and they struggle to evade zooming at their target. Each man now has to fight 3 or more soldiers on the ground which means death. Remember a horse has breaks, something flying does not have breaks. If their target does not break, how do the flying units avoid crashing to their deaths?
There is my evidence, prove me wrong. Simply think about how wars work, then think about how flying things work, then put it together.
What is the fantasy excuse for using the horse as an eye glass? Especially a horn of this size?
Just pointing out that my original point is that there is plenty of good reasons to have Cavalry despite having flying troops.
I also tend to think in resource.
Flying troops are probably your super skilled guys that are needed to be inserted where they do the most good.
A horse is still better than infantry, and probably easier to come by/requisition/takes less god-juice to make than winged super-soldiers. There's a reason Nagash didn't just raise thousands of Terrorgheists as opposed to zombies and skeletons. If they were available, he probably would have. Not every troop would be as easy to find as another.
Wow. These are some startlingly ugly models. Not just the most recent. All of them.
It's like they took 40k models (where did the fantasy aesthetic go?) ..."biggerized" them, added extra XX's or YY's (depending on your side) and then painted them AA or BB (depending on their side).
There is a point where "more" stops being better. It just gets boring.
Yes it is, because its a huge horn, if you don't mind someone raising a horn to eye level "just finishing using it" then fine, but id wager it's not common at all to hold the horn higher up your face than your mouth for reasons. Can you give me a reason why someone would do this?
Hold the heavy horn aloft and blow it, turn you face to look across the battlefield before blowing it again, you would leave the horn upwards, try it out.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
I'm planning to flesh out my Sigmarine army some more, but just with the contents of the starter set and extra box of shooty guys I got, I don't expect to be buying any more till I get these all painted and that will prolly be like 6 months at this rate.
I woulda been fine if they wanted to mix stuff up more besides a few twigs on round bases rather than rushing to get everything out all at once.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
It's not the local community's obligation to just embrace whatever GW pumps out for them. What if the local community has no interest in AoS "as it is" and gave it a shot as an updated WFB and when they realized it wasn't fix for purpose moved on to something not GW.
Just anecdotal observations, but my local store said they've cut down on ordering Sigmar stuff, because the only things that are moving are the starter sets.
That thing seems to be selling through pretty regularly, but obviously there's a lot more value in that box for most people than the individual units so far.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Just anecdotal observations, but my local store said they've cut down on ordering Sigmar stuff, because the only things that are moving are the starter sets.
That thing seems to be selling through pretty regularly, but obviously there's a lot more value in that box for most people than the individual units so far.
My local store is also ordering minimum of AoS as he says he can't move it. The only thing he has been able to sell his some of the scenery. I know this is also anecdotal, but I've been hearing this quite a bit on the internet.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
I don't think anyone is having trouble understand that. I think people are just don't like Sigmarines for anything but 40k conversions.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
That's a fair comment, however it also shows that GW misjudged the value of AoS and made it unappealing to lots of existing customers.
That won't matter if they can get lots of new customers interested of course. That would be easier if they had hordes of old customers enthused by the game to spread word of mouth.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
I don't think anyone is having trouble understand that. I think people are just don't like Sigmarines for anything but 40k conversions.
That's fine and dandy.
Personally? I enjoy them for Age of Sigmar. It's a new army, and the game is getting a new aesthetic.
This isn't the Old World anymore. That world is gone and serves a single purpose: to remind Sigmar of what was lost.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
I don't think anyone is having trouble understand that. I think people are just don't like Sigmarines for anything but 40k conversions.
It was always going to be the case that those people who would pick up boxsets as conversion fodder for 40K were never necessarily going to be long term permanent customers of AoS. In response to the point that people should stop disliking the length of time it is taking to 'flesh out' the Sigmarines, I cannot really see what is not to understand here; they all look the same so there is nothing really exciting or interesting in yet another release with a different pose and combination of weapons. At least with other factions you might have had variances that are not too dissimilar but still interesting (High Elves: Phoenix Guard, White Lions, Swordmasters, Dwarfs: Longbeards, Hammerers, Ironbreakers, Skaven: Slaves, Clanrats, Stormvermin, Plague Monks, etc etc). Even then they could have mixed up the product releases over intervening weeks to keep people's interest.
The release strategy is a total snorefest at this stage
Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
oni wrote:
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
Both of these posts in response to Mik are poorly thought out.
Firstly, Kan, just because Stormcasts are a new army does not mean they needed to dominate the release cycle for months. GW could have released them in 1 or 2 big chunks and then released other stuff in between. Instead they dragged the AoS releases out to be basically the entire summer. An entire summer for 1.5 armies (the Chaos stuff is the .5). If you don't play Khorne or want Sigmarines, what do you buy that's new? Nothing. If neither of those factions appeal, what do you do with AoS? Mik's point is that AoS stuff doesn't sell when it is all Sigmar, all the time. GW didn't have to do things the way they did, and are shooting themselves in the foot, or at least their retailers.
Oni: Are you suggesting that the local community needs to buy up Sigmarines and Khorne men and just play that? Because that is all AoS is so far if you don't include the older models. Two factions, as is. Otherwise, what is the abomination the local community created? Further, why blame the local community for not enjoying the game they corrupted instead of blaming GW for spending months releasing 1.5 armies that most people don't want, for a new game that does not appeal to the local community? You might as well blame the local community for not liking community theater plays because the local community expects decent acting and production values instead of embracing the poor quality of the experience for what it is.
In other words, GW is producing a lot of stuff many people are not very interested in, and releasing only that stuff instead of new things for other lines. Mik's GW sales have plummeted as a result. This is not the fault of the consumer, or haters, or internet forums. GW is at fault for their products not being embraced by their market, not their market.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
That's a fair comment, however it also shows that GW misjudged the value of AoS and made it unappealing to lots of existing customers.
That won't matter if they can get lots of new customers interested of course. That would be easier if they had hordes of old customers enthused by the game to spread word of mouth.
I think releasing a larger variety of armies would have been a better way to handle the release of AoS rather than forcefeeding people Sigmarites for months. There really isn't anything for people who don't play Sigmarites or Khorne to get excited about. If somebody is say a dwarf player from WHFB what is that potential customer supposed to be excited about buying for AoS? The rules and warscrolls for existing minis are free and the supplementary books so far feature Sigmarites and Chaos. Aside from terrain there's nothing for non Sigmarite or Chaos players.
If GW had created starter set boxes for all the AoS factions that would have given more players a reason to stay connected to the game. It wouldn't have needed to have been all new content, it could have been partly or mostly existing minis packaged with a few new characters or units to show the new aesthetic. Then follow up after the initial big multi army release with alternating releases of more new stuff.
Right now if you're not a Chaos player you're stuck waiting until maybe next year to see what the new look for your army will be, if it's one that survived the switch to AoS. Unless you're a big fan of the new ruleset you've been able to just tune out AoS until maybe your existing army gets some love and having the majority of your existing player base ignore you isn't a great way to launch a new flagship game.
Wehrkind wrote: Both of these posts in response to Mik are poorly thought out.
Firstly, Kan, just because Stormcasts are a new army does not mean they needed to dominate the release cycle for months. GW could have released them in 1 or 2 big chunks and then released other stuff in between. Instead they dragged the AoS releases out to be basically the entire summer. An entire summer for 1.5 armies (the Chaos stuff is the .5). If you don't play Khorne or want Sigmarines, what do you buy that's new? Nothing. If neither of those factions appeal, what do you do with AoS? Mik's point is that AoS stuff doesn't sell when it is all Sigmar, all the time. GW didn't have to do things the way they did, and are shooting themselves in the foot, or at least their retailers.
Oni: Are you suggesting that the local community needs to buy up Sigmarines and Khorne men and just play that? Because that is all AoS is so far if you don't include the older models. Two factions, as is. Otherwise, what is the abomination the local community created? Further, why blame the local community for not enjoying the game they corrupted instead of blaming GW for spending months releasing 1.5 armies that most people don't want, for a new game that does not appeal to the local community? You might as well blame the local community for not liking community theater plays because the local community expects decent acting and production values instead of embracing the poor quality of the experience for what it is.
In other words, GW is producing a lot of stuff many people are not very interested in, and releasing only that stuff instead of new things for other lines. Mik's GW sales have plummeted as a result. This is not the fault of the consumer, or haters, or internet forums. GW is at fault for their products not being embraced by their market, not their market.
You probably just don't understand it's a different game
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
Maybe you should be making the point to people that Stormcast are an entirely new army?
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that they cannot grasp the concept of fleshing out a new army before moving on to the legacy stuff?
I don't think anyone is having trouble understand that. I think people are just don't like Sigmarines for anything but 40k conversions.
That's fine and dandy.
Personally? I enjoy them for Age of Sigmar. It's a new army, and the game is getting a new aesthetic.
This isn't the Old World anymore. That world is gone and serves a single purpose: to remind Sigmar of what was lost.
It looks like it might also serve to remind GW of what was lost too!
People seem to be ok with the starter but not with the Sigmarite kits, more than aestethics its the price that is undermining the sales IMO. We can argue that the new game requires less minis but its all kind of new so it will take some time for people to adjust to a new way of collecting minis.
The new faction is growing more on me each release but I still need to flesh out other warbands first... and guess what with AOS I will only need a couple heroes and monsters and 50 odd models for most armies ( even less if I go for bellow 50 wounds).
I dig the Stormcast, but as I've repeated, I think they made the Liberators/Judicators too expensive for 5 models. I wish they had a pack the same price as Blood Warriors basically. It's just too expensive to justify picking up those "core" units.
They are the same price as Terminators/Wraithguard etc, and the models are at least as big as those. They are an elite army. I have no problem with the Liberators/Judicators because of that, but the Paladins and Retributors should be the same price and not even more expensive.
Mymearan wrote: They are the same price as Terminators/Wraithguard etc, and the models are at least as big as those. They are an elite army. I have no problem with the Liberators/Judicators because of that, but the Paladins and Retributors should be the same price and not even more expensive.
Y'know, I can kind of see why people are put off by the prices/components for the normal boxed sets and blisters of Stormcast.
The Age of Sigmar box's fluff(and the missions including until you get to "Rain of Death") makes it clear that the Stormcast are an "elite" army, but at the same time they put in two small units of Liberators rather than one big one--which made a lot of people start thinking about AoS in terms of MSU immediately.
If it had been me, to emphasize the point of the army being an elite one?
1) Lord-Celestant on Dracoth
2) Lord-Relictor
3) Unit of 3 Retributors
4) Unit of 3 Prosecutors
5) Unit of 10 Liberators with only a single Liberator-Prime
Quite literally, the simple act of changing the Liberators from 2 units of 5 to 1 unit of 10 makes the box dramatically different--especially if the missions in the box never actually made use of all 10 Liberators until the final two missions and they kept the "waves" rule from "Indomitable" in play for the Goretide.
Seeing the Chaos terrain kits and the tiny Blood Warriors box with the huge price on the sticker earlier today was pretty sureal. I KNEW how expensive it was, but seeing it was shocking. Compared to split or even WHOLE AoS starters the price increase is crazy.
If GW halved their prices I'd buy so much more. Like those "failed" price experiments with Chaos Knights and Cold One Knights. I bought both, without having those armies. Or even doubled the model count per box, if they can't reduce their price bands. It wouldn't add a lot of cost for them besides storage and transport.
The AoS pricing model is pretty much the same as 40k's Dark Vengeance versus buying similar models separately. The only real difference is that IMO the game is optimized for a smaller number of models, generally speaking.
Price per model, the prices are not really much different than Wyrd and PP (or CB infinity models) -- which is to say, a lot, if you want to own a lot of models; a little less, of you just want to own enough to play the games.
Incidentally, the chaos terrain kits sound expensive, but they are actually really large. It's a bit hard to appreciate til it is on the table beside other stuff. A lot of their configurations would just be totally unusable for most people (not a big enough table, and nowheree left to put models lol).
Mymearan wrote: They are the same price as Terminators/Wraithguard etc, and the models are at least as big as those. They are an elite army. I have no problem with the Liberators/Judicators because of that, but the Paladins and Retributors should be the same price and not even more expensive.
Y'know, I can kind of see why people are put off by the prices/components for the normal boxed sets and blisters of Stormcast.
The Age of Sigmar box's fluff(and the missions including until you get to "Rain of Death") makes it clear that the Stormcast are an "elite" army, but at the same time they put in two small units of Liberators rather than one big one--which made a lot of people start thinking about AoS in terms of MSU immediately.
If it had been me, to emphasize the point of the army being an elite one?
1) Lord-Celestant on Dracoth
2) Lord-Relictor
3) Unit of 3 Retributors
4) Unit of 3 Prosecutors
5) Unit of 10 Liberators with only a single Liberator-Prime
Quite literally, the simple act of changing the Liberators from 2 units of 5 to 1 unit of 10 makes the box dramatically different--especially if the missions in the box never actually made use of all 10 Liberators until the final two missions and they kept the "waves" rule from "Indomitable" in play for the Goretide.
Does the fluff really portray them as a small elite army? The Stormhosts are pretty big considering they consist of multiple chambers of Stormcast Etermals and only Sigmar knows the number of Stormhosts. Sigmar sends the Stormhosts to fight for control of entire realms so they have a history of fighting massive, important battles in the war against Chaos. Granted AoS is set up to be played as a skirmish level game but the background seems to show Stormcast Eternals frequently fighting as large armies not small elite units.
Does the fluff really portray them as a small elite army?
Yup. Just gotta read it and pay attention to the maps with the lightning bolts striking down(each one is where a Chamber's forces were sent).
The Stormhosts are pretty big considering they consist of multiple chambers of Stormcast Etermals and only Sigmar knows the number of Stormhosts.
Let's just settle this right now:
Warhammer Age of Sigmar page 12-13 wrote:
Hammers of Sigmar
Warrior Chamber
The exact combination of retinues within each conclave may vary from chamber to chamber, but in most cases the number of retinues in each will match the example below.
The breakdown?
1x Lord-Celestant
1x Lord-Relictor
Auxiliary Command consisting of:
1x Knight Vexillor
1x Knight-Heraldor
1x Lord-Castellant and his Gryph-Hound
Angelos Conclave, consisting of 3x Angelos Retinues.
An Angelos Retinue is 6 Prosecutors.
Paladin Conclave, consisting of 6 Paladin Retinues.
Each Paladin Retinue is 12 Paladins(any type).
Redeemer Conclave, consisting of 9 Redeemer Retinues.
Each Redeemer Retinue consists of 20 Liberators.
Justicar Conclave, consisting of 6 Justicar Retinues.
Each Retinue consists of 10 Judicators.
So the Warrior Chamber, which is put down as the example, is going to clock in at 336 Stormcast Eternals--and the Auxiliary Command specifically states that it "may be augmented by additional officers" so it can potentially be more which we see in "The Quest for Ghal Maraz" with the addition of Knight-Venator Yracus Cloudstrike and Knight-Azyros Liminus Stormsight--bringing the Warrior Chamber titled 'The Hammerhands' to 338 Stormcast Eternals.
"The Quest for Ghal Maraz" further states that there are "over twenty crusade chambers. However, only ten are formally listed in the Annals Celestis." Twenty Chambers, each consisting of 336 members is 6720 Stormcast Eternals--and that doesn't factor in the fact that we aren't told how the Heraldor, Judicator, Valedictor, or Relictor Temples are actually organized.
So the entirety of the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost is 6720 Stormcast Eternals,and they were fighting not just in one single Realm but all of the Realms.
The entirety of a single Chamber was never mentioned to be in one single battle though, with each individual member of the commands having their own forces.
Ionus Cryptborn, the Relictor of the Hammerhands was mentioned as having taken a force into battle for example.
Sigmar sends the Stormhosts to fight for control of entire realms so they have a history of fighting massive, important battles in the war against Chaos.
The Stormhosts don't have "a history of fighting massive, important battles in the war against Chaos". They don't have a history of anything as the whole Realmgate Wars are the first time that the Stormhosts have gone to war.
Granted AoS is set up to be played as a skirmish level game but the background seems to show Stormcast Eternals frequently fighting as large armies not small elite units.
It shows them doing both. The initial fighting for the Realms of Fire and Life are small elite units(Retributors from the Paladin Conclaves, Prosecutors from the Angelos Conclaves, and a smattering of Liberators from the Redeemer Conclaves) breaking through and opening the Realmgates.
It's not until afterwards that you see more Liberators pouring through the Realmgates themselves, but that's not exactly a huge stretch. The point of the invasions are to reconquer entire Realms.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
I know that you're trying to be helpful to Mikhalia as an independent store owner and businessman, but honestly isn't this GW's fault? Ultimately if people aren't "getting it" with the new army, why should it fall to store operators to mold the public's perception? is that what they call "marketing?" I know, I know, not GW's strong suit...
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
And I'll politely say that your theory is incorrect. If you want to stop by the shop, i'd discuss things. Not on a message board.
But to be clear for the rest of you, what Oni refers to as "shooting themselves in the foot" is organizing an escalation league of a dozen players, meeting up weekly, playing games, and using the Azyr points system. I just don't see this as a bad thing, sorry.
The majority of this thread appears to be old men complaining and not a lot of news or rumours.
Seriously guys, if you don't like it, move on and leave the rest of us space to think/enjoy things without all the negatrons.
Err excuse me this model is posed slightly incorrectly, oh my points system is better, how do people have fun without over complicated rules? jebus. you really do nothing for the already troubled impression people have of those who play war games.
Troll Hunter General wrote: The majority of this thread appears to be old men complaining and not a lot of news or rumours.
Seriously guys, if you don't like it, move on and leave the rest of us space to think/enjoy things without all the negatrons.
Err excuse me this model is posed slightly incorrectly, oh my points system is better, how do people have fun without over complicated rules? jebus. you really do nothing for the already troubled impression people have of those who play war games.
I'll assume this is your first time on the internet.
Troll Hunter General wrote: The majority of this thread appears to be old men complaining and not a lot of news or rumours.
Seriously guys, if you don't like it, move on and leave the rest of us space to think/enjoy things without all the negatrons.
Err excuse me this model is posed slightly incorrectly, oh my points system is better, how do people have fun without over complicated rules? jebus. you really do nothing for the already troubled impression people have of those who play war games.
Troll Hunter General wrote: The majority of this thread appears to be old men complaining and not a lot of news or rumours.
Seriously guys, if you don't like it, move on and leave the rest of us space to think/enjoy things without all the negatrons.
Err excuse me this model is posed slightly incorrectly, oh my points system is better, how do people have fun without over complicated rules? jebus. you really do nothing for the already troubled impression people have of those who play war games.
ha - no I'm actually a new member who got bored of lurking and decided to get involved. Disappointed upon my return to the hobby to find it is still full of the same old dullards and boring chat. Any enthusiasm I've had recently for AoS is getting sapped by continued negativity, the same old complaint tropes being rolled out each time there is a new model...
1) Don't call people 'trolls' and/or 'sock puppets' - it is against Rule #1. If you see a post you think breaks any of the rules of the site, report it using the "MODERATOR ALERT" button.
2) Similarly, do not 'broad brush' the community or the users here by referring to them as 'dullards', 'grumpy old men', etc. That is ALSO against Rule #1. Again, if you see a post you think breaks any of the rules of the site, report it using the "MODERATOR ALERT" button.
I'm not trying to broad brush the whole community, simply trying to say that this thread has gone west of the initial purpose, as has been pointed out before. There have been previous warnings on this thread about only discussing news and rumours, but i've seen the same repeated complaints getting in the way of discussion.
I aimed to encourage positivity, not be negative about others.
Secondly, I love the GW Trolls and mythical trolls in general. This is why I chose this name, hope you don't think i was calling out "internet" trolls. That appears to be an unintended coincidence
How many times do you have to hit the alert button? I think it might be broken as this has been going on for pages.
I guess the quickest way to get one here is to post a pic of a sock puppet?
People can have negative reactions to rumors, though. Case in point...okay, pretty much every rumor thread I've ever seen, but hey! It turns out we were justified!
:p
Positivity's fine too, but if everyone who doesn't like something just keeps quiet, it turns into an echo chamber. Just as if everyone who likes something keeps quiet. If you think the model is cool, awesome! Say so. Tell us why you like it. Maybe you'll point out something we missed, like with the helmet on the Herald guy that actually did allow him to blow the trumpet (if his face wasn't...completely painted gold, but hey! Gold spray paint IS officially one of the best things about Age of Sigmar!). Complaining about complaining is just as dull to read as complaining, though.
GW trolls ARE fun, aren't they? Despite everything, I still love the river troll models.
I totally agree, being negative is welcome and a total part of the feedback/discussion process, but after page and page of the same complaint or lazy comparisons it's just boring. I'm a grumpy old man myself, and love a moan, but there's an acceptable quota on that no? If not to prevent us turning into bitter killjoys.
If no one calls out the complaints though they do seem to keep coming.
Re trumpet/clarion guy, the Sigmarites have been resurrected and reforged by Sigmar, rather than undead i figured this meant they were the spirits of fallen warriors occupying the armour in some form of mystical light/aura style. In which case surely the concept of blowing is irrelevant, and they could just make the noise anyway.
It puzzles me that when the GW world is made up of so many fantastical elements and ideas that defy the physics of the real world, why people pick up on the oddest little things.
Part of what is going on is simply not enough "news and rumors". With enough to talk about, we don't spin through page after page of discussion with nothing really being said.
This is actually part of my frustration. GW doesn't put out information ahead of time at all. But usually we have some rumors, even false ones, about upcoming releases. I'm hearing a lot of crickets with AOS. This worries me. And understand, my worries are about what to do to replace a couple thousand dollars a month in sales, what to do with 20 thousand dollars of models on the wall, and what I should be buying that people are excited about.
This release is just odd. We should know something about an upcoming release schedule of other races. There should be some hints or pictures of greens, or something that isn't Sigmarites. It feels like nothing is in the pipeline, and they are stretching it out.
In other words, a lack of commitment to AOS, and maybe it really was just a short term exploit to see if they can jumpstart the WFB range of models. I don't think they planned for success.
Hope I'm wrong, and in the next year we see at least 2-3 of the fantasy races get new models. Pray that this is so.
Well, you know, everyone wants to get their shot in at the silly model. Can't just tell them to hush up after the first five people. :p
Couple of points there - sigmarite is apparently a term for Fantasy ceramite now, rather than a follower of Sigmar. The demographics of people making armor out of sigmarite have shifted dramatically. The Stormcast are indeed physical beings, apparently transformed from mem, women, elves, dwarves, orcs, and anyone else who fought hard enough against Chaos to catch Sigmar's attention span in between wandering off and abandoning the Realms because Nagash made him mad. This interesting variety of warriors is then transformed exclusively into giant Space Marine-esque guys. They don't actually die, he physically rescues and 'reforges' them.
There's a certain amount of suspension of disbelief you have to preserve. It helps to keep the little things internally consistent. Sometimes you can wave your arms and go 'because it was magic', but this works best with logical conclusions following it. Since the Stormcast are physical beings, and this guy has a physical trumpet, he should probably have a physical way to blow it.
Does the fluff really portray them as a small elite army?
Yup. Just gotta read it and pay attention to the maps with the lightning bolts striking down(each one is where a Chamber's forces were sent).
The Stormhosts are pretty big considering they consist of multiple chambers of Stormcast Etermals and only Sigmar knows the number of Stormhosts.
Let's just settle this right now:
Warhammer Age of Sigmar page 12-13 wrote:
Hammers of Sigmar
Warrior Chamber
The exact combination of retinues within each conclave may vary from chamber to chamber, but in most cases the number of retinues in each will match the example below.
The breakdown?
1x Lord-Celestant
1x Lord-Relictor
Auxiliary Command consisting of:
1x Knight Vexillor
1x Knight-Heraldor
1x Lord-Castellant and his Gryph-Hound
Angelos Conclave, consisting of 3x Angelos Retinues.
An Angelos Retinue is 6 Prosecutors.
Paladin Conclave, consisting of 6 Paladin Retinues.
Each Paladin Retinue is 12 Paladins(any type).
Redeemer Conclave, consisting of 9 Redeemer Retinues.
Each Redeemer Retinue consists of 20 Liberators.
Justicar Conclave, consisting of 6 Justicar Retinues.
Each Retinue consists of 10 Judicators.
So the Warrior Chamber, which is put down as the example, is going to clock in at 336 Stormcast Eternals--and the Auxiliary Command specifically states that it "may be augmented by additional officers" so it can potentially be more which we see in "The Quest for Ghal Maraz" with the addition of Knight-Venator Yracus Cloudstrike and Knight-Azyros Liminus Stormsight--bringing the Warrior Chamber titled 'The Hammerhands' to 338 Stormcast Eternals.
"The Quest for Ghal Maraz" further states that there are "over twenty crusade chambers. However, only ten are formally listed in the Annals Celestis." Twenty Chambers, each consisting of 336 members is 6720 Stormcast Eternals--and that doesn't factor in the fact that we aren't told how the Heraldor, Judicator, Valedictor, or Relictor Temples are actually organized.
So the entirety of the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost is 6720 Stormcast Eternals,and they were fighting not just in one single Realm but all of the Realms.
The entirety of a single Chamber was never mentioned to be in one single battle though, with each individual member of the commands having their own forces.
Ionus Cryptborn, the Relictor of the Hammerhands was mentioned as having taken a force into battle for example.
Sigmar sends the Stormhosts to fight for control of entire realms so they have a history of fighting massive, important battles in the war against Chaos.
The Stormhosts don't have "a history of fighting massive, important battles in the war against Chaos". They don't have a history of anything as the whole Realmgate Wars are the first time that the Stormhosts have gone to war.
Granted AoS is set up to be played as a skirmish level game but the background seems to show Stormcast Eternals frequently fighting as large armies not small elite units.
It shows them doing both. The initial fighting for the Realms of Fire and Life are small elite units(Retributors from the Paladin Conclaves, Prosecutors from the Angelos Conclaves, and a smattering of Liberators from the Redeemer Conclaves) breaking through and opening the Realmgates.
It's not until afterwards that you see more Liberators pouring through the Realmgates themselves, but that's not exactly a huge stretch. The point of the invasions are to reconquer entire Realms.
I think we have different views on what constitutes a small elite army. If there are enough Stormcast Eternals to fight multiple battles across multiple fronts simultaneously and have every force be at least Chamber sized then there are a LOT of Stormcast Eternals. There are the 8 Stormhosts mentioned by GW and then since Sigmar alone knows how many Stormhosts there really are any Sigmarite player can create their own Stormhost. So it is entirely consistent with the fluff for there to be 6720 x ( 8+ as many Stormhosts as the community wants to create) = anywhere from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of Stormcast Eternals.
Your assertion that Stormcast Eternals haven't fought Chaos prior to the Realmgate Wars since all 8 of the named Stormhosts are already renown for their prowess fighting Chaos. I think the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost are the first to fight against Chaos in this particular Realmgate Wars but not the first to ever fight Chaos otherwise the blurbs about the Stormhosts wouldn't make sense.
Celestial Vindicators: Made from heroes from the most war-torn lands, these turquoise-hued warriors are fearless even against the power of a Bloodthirster.
Sigmar's Chosen, page 26-29
Astral Templars: Dark purple warrior that are known as the scourge of beasts and monsters.
Hallowed Knights: Silver armored warriors, whose purity of spirit and righteous passion grants them immunity to most evil magicks
Maelstrom of Light: The purest warriors who fought back the the daemon legions at the Battle of Verdant Abyss.
So how could the Celestial Vindicators prove to everyone how they're fearless against Bloodthirsters and the Hallowed Knights prove their immunity to evil magicks if no Stormhosts fought Chaos prior to the Hammers of Sigmar opening the Gates of Azyr? How could the Maelstrom of Light Stormhost fight legions of daemons at the Verdant Abyss (seemingly an oxymoron) if no Stormhosts fought large battles against Chaos prior to the Hammers of Sigmar launching the Realmgate War?
Either the Stormhosts have gained renown from fighting Chaos, monsters, evil, etc. already or they're brand spanking new but it can't be both.
This isn't directed at you personally I'm just trying to find some clarity on GW's backstory for the Stormcast Eternals. I haven't purchased the books so I'm sure there's details I'm missing but everything that GW has made publicly available for free regarding the Stormcast Eternals shows them to be a massive army created by Sigmar to fight against Chaos across all the realms. Their smallest organized unit is a Chamber of a few hundred Stormcast Eternals which militarily speaking is a pretty small unit yes and they are unquestionably elite warrior but they really aren't a small army if there are thousands upon thousands of them and Sigmar and choose to send them a force of whatever size he wants to fight any given battle in the war against Chaos. It's a far cry from being something like Grey Knights in 40K where there is only 1 chapter for entire galaxy to fight against Chaos/Daemons.
Perhaps this best for the AoS background subforum but at least it's about AoS, Stormcast Eternals and news about them released by GW even if it isn't particularly new.
Yeah the lack of anything else does lead to chatting about the same stuff tbh.
For GW to go from "The End Times" to Age of Sigmar and commit to an ongoing developing narrative for the series suggests this isn't the end of the AoS development. I cant see them changing the rules again, as these are deliberately stripped back.
I think as Stormcast had nothing, they've rolled out a whole army over 8 weekly White Dwarfs instead of two monthly ones, this then making it seem like nothing but gold plates and lionheads.
Warhammer 8 was the worst ruleset ever written by mankind and dumping it was the best move GW has ever made.
AoS is a breath of fresh air and it's causing me to buy GW models other than LOTR for the first time in a long time.
The two best positive side effects are:
a) Kings of War, a superior mass battles ruleset, now has a lot more attention
b) Age of Sigmar is a really, really fun skirmish game
And our local FLGS and community has embraced it, lots of AoS going on.
Just picked up a box of Judicators myself, excellent models. Gotta grab some of the newer kits next paycheck.
Warhammer 8 was the worst ruleset ever written by mankind and dumping it was the best move GW has ever made.
AoS is a breath of fresh air and it's causing me to buy GW models other than LOTR for the first time in a long time.
The two best positive side effects are:
a) Kings of War, a superior mass battles ruleset, now has a lot more attention
b) Age of Sigmar is a really, really fun skirmish game
And our local FLGS and community has embraced it, lots of AoS going on.
Just picked up a box of Judicators myself, excellent models. Gotta grab some of the newer kits next paycheck.
This- so much. I was the same. Enjoyed the fluff more than the actual game. Just couldn't get into it. Along comes AoS, and now I actually look forward to playing in the fantasy setting.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
Is it FLGSs job to reinvigorate interest though or rather GWs? Isn't it better to find out what people want instead of trying to push trash they don't buy. If it was my area I wouldn't risk bad rep from promoting bad games and AoSatm is bad and might get old fast.
My AOS sales in my store have dropped to zero. People were somewhat excited about new sculpts for existing races, but not an endless tide of sigmar. I'm down to ordering 1 of a new release, and sometimes that sits. I used to order 8-16 of all WFB releases and 30 armie books. How the mighty have fallen.
I so miss that 40k game they used to make. That little sucker was hot, you'd get 6 kits and a new codex in 3 weeks and they pumped them out fast. Wonder if GW will ever remember they made a game that sells?
If I might chime in with a theory... I would argue that the 'local community' shot itself in the foot. Rather than embracing the new AoS game for what it is the 'local community' tried to mold AoS into something it was never meant to be... An updated WFB. When the 'local community' didn't like the abomination they created, interest faltered.
My recommendation to you Mikhaila, to reinvigorate interest in AoS, would be to try and change the manner in which the 'local community' views AoS. Try embracing the game as it is, don't change it and you may be surprised to find avenues of thinking / game play that you.hadn't considered previously.
Is it FLGSs job to reinvigorate interest though or rather GWs? Isn't it better to find out what people want instead of trying to push trash they don't buy. If it was my area I wouldn't risk bad rep from promoting bad games and AoSatm is bad and might get old fast.
A very good point, GW can't gak all over FLGSs and then expect them to do the heavy lifting to get people interested in the game and build a community for them.
Price per model, the prices are not really much different than Wyrd and PP (or CB infinity models) -- which is to say, a lot, if you want to own a lot of models; a little less, of you just want to own enough to play the games.
While this is true on a per model basis, the games are different and "recommend" different amounts of models to play standard games. Infinity and Malifaux forces only require about 10-20 models to play the game at their recommended tournament sizes. AoS, per what GW continues to put in publications, recommends playing 100 models. Even if the prices per model are the same, that still makes AoS 5 times more expensive to play the game "as it was designed to be played."
mikhaila wrote: Part of what is going on is simply not enough "news and rumors". With enough to talk about, we don't spin through page after page of discussion with nothing really being said. ...
This release is just odd. We should know something about an upcoming release schedule of other races. There should be some hints or pictures of greens, or something that isn't Sigmarites. It feels like nothing is in the pipeline, and they are stretching it out.
...
Hope I'm wrong, and in the next year we see at least 2-3 of the fantasy races get new models. Pray that this is so.
The only hope we have here is that there have been no pictures of Dwarfs or Elves in any of the AoS material so far (unless they're in Ghal Maraz book - I've stopped buying Aos stuff) This may imply new ranges of models in the future.
Price per model, the prices are not really much different than Wyrd and PP (or CB infinity models) -- which is to say, a lot, if you want to own a lot of models; a little less, of you just want to own enough to play the games.
While this is true on a per model basis, the games are different and "recommend" different amounts of models to play standard games. Infinity and Malifaux forces only require about 10-20 models to play the game at their recommended tournament sizes. AoS, per what GW continues to put in publications, recommends playing 100 models. Even if the prices per model are the same, that still makes AoS 5 times more expensive to play the game "as it was designed to be played."
Where have they actually recommended playing with 100 models? Apart from the line in the rules which says something like "a game with 100 models will probably last an evening".
mikhaila wrote: Part of what is going on is simply not enough "news and rumors". With enough to talk about, we don't spin through page after page of discussion with nothing really being said. ...
This release is just odd. We should know something about an upcoming release schedule of other races. There should be some hints or pictures of greens, or something that isn't Sigmarites. It feels like nothing is in the pipeline, and they are stretching it out.
...
Hope I'm wrong, and in the next year we see at least 2-3 of the fantasy races get new models. Pray that this is so.
The only hope we have here is that there have been no pictures of Dwarfs or Elves in any of the AoS material so far (unless they're in Ghal Maraz book - I've stopped buying Aos stuff) This may imply new ranges of models in the future.
While Im in no position to make demands on rumor mongers, I think its fair to say AoS has been a real fiasko for the rumor bussiness. To little, To late. And Im not counting that someone got hold of a WD early.
How the heck can a humongus khorne fortress sneak up on the gaming comunity?
Price per model, the prices are not really much different than Wyrd and PP (or CB infinity models) -- which is to say, a lot, if you want to own a lot of models; a little less, of you just want to own enough to play the games.
While this is true on a per model basis, the games are different and "recommend" different amounts of models to play standard games. Infinity and Malifaux forces only require about 10-20 models to play the game at their recommended tournament sizes. AoS, per what GW continues to put in publications, recommends playing 100 models. Even if the prices per model are the same, that still makes AoS 5 times more expensive to play the game "as it was designed to be played."
Where have they actually recommended playing with 100 models? Apart from the line in the rules which says something like "a game with 100 models will probably last an evening".
As I've said before, there's a reason that sentence wasn't "a game with 20 models will last about 45 minutes."
I'd love to see a model in the Sigmarite - is that what they're called? I forget - line that looks different from the first guy I got free with White Dwarf. Even slightly. My interest would have sustained past week 1 had there been anything meaningfully different or even a decent kit.
This release style is pretty dumb, to me. Stormcast fans arent gonna be able to drop enough money at a time to make ths one faction only thing actually profitable compared to say, squirting out a tzeentch daemonkin book and a couple kits as well as a tau book and a couple kits in between. A week of releases would keep the 40k players interested and checking the site, which has the added possibility that they might check in and like some AOS models. I know ive stopped going there altogether after the third release of stormcast only stuff.
At this point, im getting ticked off waiting, and its negatively coloured AOS for me slightly as well as taking active interest from 40k. I even come to dakka less because there isn't any rumours for 40k and hasnt been anything solid for a good while.
I like the stormcast models and all, but at this point i couldn't buy any based on principle... I feel pidgeonholed into consuming stormcast eternals. And that makes me want to refuse to do so.
I've had money set aside for tzeentch daemonkin, or any 40k chaos release. I would have bought some AOS khorne if it was useable in 40k for anything other than conversion fodder.
Im just seeing less and less value in stormcast eternals every time a new gold dude gets thrown out to the masses. They need to break it up with some 40k. Don't let the real cash cow get stagnant, especially in the middle of updating codicies to 7.5 level.
Actually there have been several good kits for stormcast eternals. I recently got my celebrant prime. I thought he looked a bit 'blah' in the online and white dwarf pics. After assembling him, I have to say I am VERY impressed with the model. The model itself is actually pretty dynamic, and loaded with details. It is the coolest model in my collection as of now (and I have over 45,000 points of dark angels, carcharodons, chaos marines, tau, grey knights, chaos demons, forgeworld stuff, hh, and more from the past 16 years).
From what i can tell, the paint schemes are what make them look bad. When painted silver or any non metallic color, they look great, almost better than a majority of space marines.
AncientSkarbrand wrote: At this point, im getting ticked off waiting, and its negatively coloured AOS for me slightly as well as taking active interest from 40k. I even come to dakka less because there isn't any rumours for 40k and hasnt been anything solid for a good while.
I like the stormcast models and all, but at this point i couldn't buy any based on principle... I feel pidgeonholed into consuming stormcast eternals. And that makes me want to refuse to do so.
I know where you're coming from. For me, 40k > any type of fantasy, too. It has been nice to be able to catch up on some 40k models, though, and the release cadence for the first half of the year was something fierce (not that I'm complaining, but some people were). I'm sure Chaos love is coming soon.
I hope they keep putting out Sigmar stuff. AOS got me back into GW products because how great it all looks. Would be great to see some form of calvary and a mage of sorts. then I hope they go into more Khorne bloodbound stuff
To be fair, they churned out 9 Codexes between January and June of this year only.
That is the equivalent to the entirety of 5th Edition, all four years of it.
If that isn't enough for people to work with for 3 or 4 months of releases for another game, without getting bored, what would be? Have you all truly already build, painted, tested, refined and mastered Ad-Mech, Harlequin, Daemonkin, new-Knight, etc.. armies?
Wonderwolf wrote: To be fair, they churned out 9 Codexes between January and June of this year only.
That is the equivalent to the entirety of 5th Edition, all four years of it.
If that isn't enough for people to work with for 3 or 4 months of releases for another game, without getting bored, what would be? Have you all truly already build, painted, tested, refined and mastered Ad-Mech, Harlequin, Daemonkin, new-Knight, etc.. armies?
They need to balance it better. The first half of the year was just as bad as this, just 40k as opposed to AoS. They just need to mix it up more, it gives people a bit of time to catch up on things before the next release, and keeps things a bit fresher. They could also release more kits at a time, they could've done half the amount of time devoted to Sigmarites with twice the releases each time, and moved on to something else.
Games Workshop is not the behemoth it once was, so they probably can't afford to do releases like others have suggested. To be fair we've had a bucketload of goretide stuff as well as scenery in between all the sigmary bits...
We've had two units and one character for Khorne, hardly bucket loads. It's not like people are saying they need to release more, just that they could condense the release schedule down so you don't have the same army spread over a few months.
angelofvengeance wrote: Games Workshop is not the behemoth it once was, so they probably can't afford to do releases like others have suggested. To be fair we've had a bucketload of goretide stuff as well as scenery in between all the sigmary bits...
When GW was the behemoth it once was, they did monthly releases averaging about two 40K Codexes and two WFB army books a year, plus a bit of Hobbit/LoTR. So one army ever three months, or one per game system ever six months, was about the norm.
The last 40K Codex, Dark Angels, is under 3 months old.
In 3rd, 4th and 5th, a six month wait between Codexes was the norm. Between 5th Edition Necrons in November 2011 and 6th Edition CSM in October 2012 was a full 11-month wait without a new Codex.
angelofvengeance wrote: Games Workshop is not the behemoth it once was, so they probably can't afford to do releases like others have suggested. To be fair we've had a bucketload of goretide stuff as well as scenery in between all the sigmary bits...
When GW was the behemoth it once was, they did monthly releases averaging about two 40K Codexes and two WFB army books a year, plus a bit of Hobbit/LoTR. So one army ever three months, or one per game system ever six months, was about the norm.
The last 40K Codex, Dark Angels, is under 3 months old.
In 3rd, 4th and 5th, a six month wait between Codexes was the norm. Between 5th Edition Necrons in November 2011 and 6th Edition CSM in October 2012 was a full 11-month wait without a new Codex.
Yeah, I think their release schedule is actually faster than it has ever been, it's just models are released every week now, rather than a lot of them every month. If they just alternated between 40k and AoS every week, the perception that they're not releasing as much stuff would probably disappear.
Warhammer 8 was the worst ruleset ever written by mankind and dumping it was the best move GW has ever made.
AoS is a breath of fresh air and it's causing me to buy GW models other than LOTR for the first time in a long time.
The two best positive side effects are:
a) Kings of War, a superior mass battles ruleset, now has a lot more attention
b) Age of Sigmar is a really, really fun skirmish game
And our local FLGS and community has embraced it, lots of AoS going on.
Just picked up a box of Judicators myself, excellent models. Gotta grab some of the newer kits next paycheck.
That maybe true, but there are a lot of skirmish games out there that look just as good and are IMHO more reasonably priced
angelofvengeance wrote: Games Workshop is not the behemoth it once was, so they probably can't afford to do releases like others have suggested. To be fair we've had a bucketload of goretide stuff as well as scenery in between all the sigmary bits...
I think GW has put out more new miniatures this year than the next 5 largest companies put together. I think they're trying to set a new record for rulebooks, too.
The problem isn't really that GW isn't releasing enough stuff, it's that GW isn't releasing enough of "my" stuff quickly enough
angelofvengeance wrote: Games Workshop is not the behemoth it once was, so they probably can't afford to do releases like others have suggested. To be fair we've had a bucketload of goretide stuff as well as scenery in between all the sigmary bits...
I think GW has put out more new miniatures this year than the next 5 largest companies put together. I think they're trying to set a new record for rulebooks, too.
The problem isn't really that GW isn't releasing enough stuff, it's that GW isn't releasing enough of "my" stuff quickly enough
GW these days put out 1 box or blister a week, occasionally it will be a box and a blister, but occasionally it will be just a book. I think it is fair to say 1 model product a week (not including things like upgrade kits, proper model kits).
PP's August releases (models only): 6 products.
Infinity's August release: 5 products.
How many did GW release in August, I legitimately can't find a rumor summary and GW don't really list their releases in the same way as the others do, they just push forward that weeks release then it gets lost in the pile so to speak.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear it was even as many as 6 products, but no way in hell do GW put out more product than their next 5 competitors combined, the one product a week system just makes it feel faster but it's really only 52 products a year which is nothing special at all.
Retributers multi kit (5 models)
lord celestant (2 model kit)
celestant prime (one large model)
Khorne character (one model)
khorne blood warriors (10 models)
khorne blood reavers (10 models)
1 large book?
The chaos castle pieces (multiple sets, didnt want to count the different kits)
Dragonfate Dias
numinous occulum
Multiple new releases/re-releases which should count as it costs a company $ to repackage and add in different bases
Multiple new base kits
And more..
Looks like gw still takes the cake with releases!! There may be a couple more released in august but I couldnt remember which ones were actually released at the end of july/august.
So that's still 6 whole products plus terrain (which is points for them I'll admit).
Against PPs 6 and CBs 5.
No one is saying GW's release schedule is slow, but it's grossly inaccurate to try and paint them as some juggernaut of the industry who's release pace outstrips their competitors by any significant margin.
29 models (some could be built several ways that make them look completely different, in essence 49 models) in high quality plastic vs 12 ok models or 10 corvus belli models (who also make super good quality models, love their metals).
Don't forget their other boxed set releases or reboxes... they actually released a ton.
In a years span their releases are far more than any other comparable company. 9 40k codex books so far this year, countless new models, two new factions, a new box game, a rerelease of space hulk, and a new game system (aos).
Number of individual models is meaningless, as is the subjective quality of said models. The number ofNEW RELEASES from GW, in model terms, is not that much higher than any other company. Certainly not larger than "the next 5 largest companies put together".
I honestly can't understand why they did this to fantasy. The UA or the standard and musician released separately look like they think they can go the war machine /pp and bring out whatever they want.
Just seems we are getting less now if every army takes this route.
It's like they have gone back to the 90s release schedule ( something each week ) which is fine but considering they are so large they could release things for several games each week.
From what I understand there's a big difference between releasing multi-sprue plastic kits and releasing single metal models in terms of cost... Comparing "number of releases" seems pretty pointless in that context.
I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.
Every model that's a reasonably different pose counts as a different model (including the two guards); for the purposes of simplicity, a box of 10 multipart plastic models that has a kazillion builds, I'd generally just call 10 models -- though not always, as there are some kits where all 10 virtually look identical. Whether soldier is holding a gun is facing forward or in the air would probably be considered the same model by most people, but a warrior with a two-handed polearm is not the same as a warrior with a gladius and shield, which is not the same as a warrior with two one-handed hammers.
The litmus test should be, if you show two finished models to someone who isn't familiar with the kit, would they say, "yeah, that's the same model", or, "no, those are different".
Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all
The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).
Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously
Talys wrote: Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all
The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).
Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously
Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.
Talys wrote: Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all
The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).
Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously
Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.
The Khorne fortress is definitely new, as Kan said. Although the designs for a couple of the others have been around for a while, that doesn't necessarily mean they've had the quantity of models required for retail sales, they could just have used a painted prototype in Triumph and Treachery (it wouldn't be the first time they've done this).
Talys wrote: Oh yeah, don't forget Forge World models. FW is GW, after all
The limited edition centurion and the techmarines were sweet. I think Eidolon was August, too, the White Scars stuff, DA parts. The ginormous Tau Titan, if you count it as "released" (since it was actually being sold on a limited basis).
Incidentally, in 2015, Games Workshop built two completely new factions (40k AdMech and Stormcast Eternals), totally reboot another faction (Harlequins; every old model scrapped), and a couple of brand new terrain themes in complete/modular sets. I don't think anyone else comes close to doing that. I mean, sure you can say, "they're all ugly and expensive and I don't like them", but not everyone feels that way, obviously
Hasn't it been shown that a lot of the AoS terrain first appeared back in 2013 in the Triumph and Treachery book? Not to nitpick but I think it's important to remember that often there is a significant amount of time between when the new kits are created and when they're released. GW is big enough that they can afford to have stocks of new kits sitting in a warehouse waiting for a release slot and that gives them a lot more options in regards to how much gets released and when compared to smaller companies that can't afford to invest in making a new kit just to sit on it for 2 years before putting it up for sale.
The Khorne fortress is definitely new, as Kan said. Although the designs for a couple of the others have been around for a while, that doesn't necessarily mean they've had the quantity of models required for retail sales, they could just have used a painted prototype in Triumph and Treachery (it wouldn't be the first time they've done this).
Ok. My point was that GW is big enough to invest in creating new kits and factions and then delay recouping the cost by putting off the release date to a time further down the road. It was in response to the claim that GW built two completely new factions in 2015. GW didn't do all the work in 2015 it clearly started years before 2015. GW has the resources to play around with release dates in ways that smaller companies can't. It's a fact that struck me as being pertinent to the sudden discussion in this thread of comparing the release schedules and content of different companies.
Kanluwen wrote: Stormcast and Skitarii/AdMech were all CAD sculpts and copyright 2014.
I don't think their lead times are anywhere near as long as people think they are these days.
The date on the sprues is when the finished plastic sprues comes out of the shiny new moulds.
Designing a complete range like Stormcast and getting them ready for that particular moment, from the first concept art and sketches, to CAD-designs, to resin/3D-print masters, tooling the moulds, etc.., etc.. takes a while too.
Kanluwen wrote: Stormcast and Skitarii/AdMech were all CAD sculpts and copyright 2014.
I don't think their lead times are anywhere near as long as people think they are these days.
The date on the sprues is when the finished plastic sprues comes out of the shiny new moulds.
Designing a complete range like Stormcast and getting them ready for that particular moment, from the first concept art and sketches, to CAD-designs, to resin/3D-print masters, tooling the moulds, etc.., etc.. takes a while too.
You're explaining something that nobody really is refuting.
The point of mentioning the copyright dates is that if a company like Corvus Belli can do a new unit in the realm of 4-5 months, going from dossier to rendered in CAD in that timeframe--what can a big company like GW do?
An example of this is the Kosuil Pioneer that got revealed at GenCon for the Tohaa faction of Infinity. They started design work in the spring for this unit, and the first model from the unit comes out next month.
With CAD in the mix, the time from concept to actualized model is shortened significantly. That's why I even bothered to refer to the copyright date, as while we saw the releases this year how much of it was realistically them getting a reasonable supply chain in place?
When referring to GW vs CB though, we have to take into consideration some other things--most of which have to deal with the logistics of maintaining and running a faaaaaaaaaaaar larger company than CB is, with dedicated shops and keeping their production from doing what CB's does and bottlenecking hard with a popular release.
Heck, even taking that into consideration for a month or two Skitarii Rangers/Vanguard kits were basically sold out and needed an entirely new production run!
I am sure GW could do it very fast, if they wanted.
But by all accounts, they don't. Hell, they have novels commissioned by BL to tie into a release with the author clearly already in on the miniatures they are writing about.
Imperial Knight 2.0 was probably an example of the fast-track. Roughly a year to push out an upgrade-version to a big seller, from having sales data on the first Knight to the second version being in the shop. On the other hand, it wasn't a full new model.
Very extreme examples (Eldar Jetbike) seem to be in development hell for nearly a decade. Probably not a representative example, but still. They could turn out a miniature from concept art in a month, but with all their secrecy, they also can give themselves a comfortable 1 or 2-year lead. So why not do it?
Well, I picked up my Prosecutors and the winged hero kit (Azyros/Venator builds) today. Man, the models are really nice. For anyone who's worked with feathers before, the eagle is awesomely tooled, deep, cupped grooves for each feather and a really nice shape that lends itself to good results with airbrush/glaze. The S-shaped curve that holds the model up is a marvel of HIPS wizardry too. It's worth noting that if you want a non-flying model, this particular one is very easy to detach from its flying ribbon.
Looking at the close-ups of Velixor and Heraldor (or however you spell them), I don't really like Heraldor at all. He seems like a bit of a crappy Relictor. Maybe my opinion will change when I see the physical model, but the banner just isn't of the sort that I like. Velixor looks to be a very nice model -- but a trumpeter really isn't my thing, so I will probably put this one off until I want to field one, or some time I can get fat 35% off discount.
Also, in this week's WD, the Reader's Model of the week is a black Stormcast that just rocks. Big props for that painter!
In the theme of "saving the best for last", they should have stopped with the Prosecutors and winged heroes. I forgot to mention, looking at the banner dude (Bannereror!), the shoulderpad looks absolutely humongous. Not as bad as the PP dude that looks like his head is between a vice, but Vexillor looks like he can't scratch his nose with his left hand
Oh well, one way to prevent your troops from picking their noses I guess.
You want to go to your local "Garden Center" type of place and look for "Florist Wire". It is usually used to wire together flower displays .
Here are some examples of things I did with it.
Oh, I know. I did something like right after I saw that awesome Jain Zar in WD some time (a decade?!) ago*. But thank you all the same.
*Only this time I can do OSL, NMM and will have dayglow colours if everything goes right. And much thinner wire. About 0,1 mm gauge, it'll be awesome for this.
Talys wrote: I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.
Using that logic, each Space Marine Tactical squad box contains 1000+ of models, as the model kit can be built in 1000's of ways which are all distinctly different... magnitudes more if you leverage all the pouches and grenades... magnitudes more if you include incomplete and/or incorrectly assembled models (i.e. shoulder pads left off, or put on sideways). This must be how GW Accounting set their prices... using Citadel Fine-Math, we are the market leaders for price per model. Each finely detailed multi-part box contains the components for over 1000 models* (Citadel Fine-Print: *1000+ modelling combinations possible. Box contains parts to build 10 or less complete figures of customer's choice. Model combinations are only limited by the customer's imagination.)
Talys wrote: I don't know how anyone could call Zerkova and her 2 guards one model instead of 3 -- since they could just be sold as 3 different models. In the same way, if a model kit can be built 2 significantly different ways, it counts as 2 models, in my book.
Using that logic, each Space Marine Tactical squad box contains 1000+ of models, as the model kit can be built in 1000's of ways which are all distinctly different... magnitudes more if you leverage all the pouches and grenades... magnitudes more if you include incomplete and/or incorrectly assembled models (i.e. shoulder pads left off, or put on sideways). This must be how GW Accounting set their prices... using Citadel Fine-Math, we are the market leaders for price per model. Each finely detailed multi-part box contains the components for over 1000 models* (Citadel Fine-Print: *1000+ modelling combinations possible. Box contains parts to build 10 or less complete figures of customer's choice. Model combinations are only limited by the customer's imagination.)
If you read the rest of that same post, I said a box of 10 should just be considered 10 models, for simplicity's sake, in most cases (in some, there may be highly repetitive, essentially snapfits). Also, I said that that different but very similar poses are essentially the same model (like rotating a gun so that it's facing up or down, or a sword so that it's vertical or horizontal); but that pistol and dagger vs two handed sword vs sniper rifle would be considered a different models in my book, especially if it's not just a simple weapon swap.
Obviously, a benefit for some people of modular kits like GW and Victoria or the Eisenkern troops are that you have more flexibility when building your model to give you a wider variety of possible finished products. But it's not fair to the sculptors and consider Zerkova or a box of BA Tacticals and say, "each box counts as one sculpted model".
Likewise, a downside for some people of modular kits is that a single model can take hours to choose and prepare, versus a single piece model, which can be glued to a base and used to play right away. If a box of 3 comes with 2 identical guards and 1 unique hero, I'd call it 2 distinct sculpts. But if the two guards are noticeably different (even if similar) I'd call it 3 distinct sculpts.
. Hopefully this signals a full return of 
Been wanting one for ages but left it too late and was gutted when it disappeared a few months ago. Big kudos for that post 
Try performing that action with your own legs... Launching backwards typically uses both legs, and the shoulders would be more square to the hips. This is a strange twisting motion while jumping (kind of) to one side - except when jumping to the side, to maintain balance, your weight is always launched on the leg closest to the direction you're going. I think they were going with something like (spoiler) for the pose, but not quite getting it... The chunkiness of the model doesn't really convey the nuances motion very well since the anatomy is completely hidden by inflexible armor plate. It's an aesthetic thing, so 
