Thanks everybody for the precious feedback. I changed the list according to your suggestions:

Okay, hear me out on this: what about the possibility of taking a full 10-model unit of Witchseekers in a Rhino and using it for early pressure? Yes, they'll bounce right off of most MEQ or better stuff, but with their pregame move they should be able to get in range to flame something fairly hard. 10 of them with a Rhino is 220 points I think, so less than a unit of 3 bikes, and could do pretty significant damage to anything without Armor of Contempt (thinking of gribblies like Tyranid Gaunts, Scarabs, most Ork troops, etc.). Disrupting at least one of your opponent's Psychic phases could be worth it as well, I would think (meaning maybe 2x5 rather than 1x10 unit could be good), although they are unlikely to live beyond that as GK or TS will probably just shoot them down and Daemons will beat them up in melee.

Main reason I ask is because I really would only need the Custodes combat patrol box to reach a decent 2k points threshold, and I kind of like the idea of bringing along Sisters of Silence as part of it. I feel like there must be a niche for them somewhere.

I've tried for this entire edition to run Flamergals in many of my games. Every single time they are shot off the board before earning close to their points back. I tried a Rhino Rush, I tried a teleport strike, I've even tried putting them in a LR. They get mulched far too easy.

Sisters need AOC and some of the strats that Battle Sisters get. Thinking cleansed by fire and The Emperor's judgement.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've tried for this entire edition to run Flamergals in many of my games. Every single time they are shot off the board before earning close to their points back. I tried a Rhino Rush, I tried a teleport strike, I've even tried putting them in a LR. They get mulched far too easy.

Sisters need AOC and some of the strats that Battle Sisters get. Thinking cleansed by fire and The Emperor's judgement.

Sorry, Sisters of Silence just aren't angry enough to ignore AP

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've tried for this entire edition to run Flamergals in many of my games. Every single time they are shot off the board before earning close to their points back. I tried a Rhino Rush, I tried a teleport strike, I've even tried putting them in a LR. They get mulched far too easy.

Sisters need AOC and some of the strats that Battle Sisters get. Thinking cleansed by fire and The Emperor's judgement.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I was hoping maybe I missed something. Oh well, at least I can build the Sisters from the Combat Patrol as Prosecutors for cheap troops if and when I get it.

Another question: are Wardens even close to worth taking at all now that Bodyguard has gone the way of the dodo competitively? The only thing I can think of for them is to take the axes (which regular Custodians can't get) and use them as a little retinue for Trajann or another foot SC. They just seem like more expensive CG that don't have ObSec now though. I do have three of them with axes and I'd love to have a reason to use them.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I've tried for this entire edition to run Flamergals in many of my games. Every single time they are shot off the board before earning close to their points back. I tried a Rhino Rush, I tried a teleport strike, I've even tried putting them in a LR. They get mulched far too easy.

Sisters need AOC and some of the strats that Battle Sisters get. Thinking cleansed by fire and The Emperor's judgement.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I was hoping maybe I missed something. Oh well, at least I can build the Sisters from the Combat Patrol as Prosecutors for cheap troops if and when I get it.

Another question: are Wardens even close to worth taking at all now that Bodyguard has gone the way of the dodo competitively? The only thing I can think of for them is to take the axes (which regular Custodians can't get) and use them as a little retinue for Trajann or another foot SC. They just seem like more expensive CG that don't have ObSec now though. I do have three of them with axes and I'd love to have a reason to use them.

The problem with wardens is not only that the general bodyguard change from the balance dataslate makes their bodyguard rule completely superfluous, because any custodes model counts as two models for the purposes of look out sir anyway, as well as them losing obsec....but also that access to the axes is not that valuable anymore in an AoC meta. Wounding marines on 2+ is nice and all, but them still having a 4+ save against your premium weapon just feels bad....3 wardens with spears even do slightly more dmg against a standard marine squad than 3 wardens equipped with axes (about 4,4 unsaved wounds for spears vs 4,1 for axes).

Against a T8 Leman Russ with AoC and 2+ a min squad of Wardens do about 1,6 unsaved wounds with both the axes and the spears...so having access to the axes over standard custodian guard is actually pointless.

Their 6+ fnp is nice but doesn't balance out all the issues I just listed. They are a cool unit and I personally like the models a lot, but they don't really have clear purpose right now.
They shine a bit more in dreadhost though, because the extra AP in melee really helps the axes against armor of contempt.

Edit: so in conclusion, go ham with wardens in a casual setting. They are cool and have nice models. If you play just slightly more competitive, stay clear of them for now because imo you won't get your moneys worth.
Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk about wardens.

Wardens in a max group with Spears is about the most powerful unit in our meta. 40 S7 Attacks with AP3 and +1 to wound, even ignoring the shots they can pour into a target, with Free Misers, thats 40 attacks at S7, then 10 more attacks at S5 ap2 d1. I know it's 500 points, but with Avenge the Fallen, they get even stupider.

I love playing the Warden bomb as a alpha strike.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Wardens in a max group with Spears is about the most powerful unit in our meta. 40 S7 Attacks with AP3 and +1 to wound, even ignoring the shots they can pour into a target, with Free Misers, thats 40 attacks at S7, then 10 more attacks at S5 ap2 d1. I know it's 500 points, but with Avenge the Fallen, they get even stupider.

I love playing the Warden bomb as a alpha strike.

It's honestly great that you like playing them and I hope you have great success and fun with a big warden blob in your games, but they are absolutely, without a shadow of doubt not the most powerful unit in our meta, that's just ridiculous.

Yeah, that was a bad take. Absolutely not. But still a fun not meta Unit.

So there have been a number of recent competitive lists that curiously feature a tooled up blade champion. Interestingly enough he even features in non-shadowkeepers lists like emperor's chosen.

Initially when the codex released, and a quite some time after, the consensus basically was that the bladechamp is not worth it competitively. The bike captain provides a faster threat and Trajann is an auto-take in most lists, so he was almost nowhere to be seen for quite some time.

In what way do you guys think the meta has shifted so that now high level competitive players suddenly find value in the blade champ? Or in other words, what value does he provide now, that he didn't or couldn't before.

Just to be clear, the blade champ is not in every single list nowadays, but he pops up significantly more often than before, which imo warrants some attention.

I mean, the Blade Champ is a killer, well, champion unit entry.

Now that 9e is coming to an end I think it's safe to say Custodes got one of the best codexes of the edition.

1. Consistent representation in high level competitive play, with the occasional GT win
2. Absolutely crushes low-to-mid tables, and casual play in general
3. Multiple competitively viable subfactions, with a variety of powerful list archetypes
4. Excellent internal balance. Dreads are good. Bikes and troops are good. Tanks and HQs are good. Biggest losers in this department are terminators and wardens, but even Allarus termis and termi captains show up at GTs semi-regularly. Venatari have also been showing up a lot lately. I challenge you to name a codex with better internal balance than Custodes. The list is satisfyingly short.

artific3r wrote:
Now that 9e is coming to an end I think it's safe to say Custodes got one of the best codexes of the edition.

1. Consistent representation in high level competitive play, with the occasional GT win
2. Absolutely crushes low-to-mid tables, and casual play in general
3. Multiple competitively viable subfactions, with a variety of powerful list archetypes
4. Excellent internal balance. Dreads are good. Bikes and troops are good. Tanks and HQs are good. Biggest losers in this department are terminators and wardens, but even Allarus termis and termi captains show up at GTs semi-regularly. Venatari have also been showing up a lot lately. I challenge you to name a codex with better internal balance than Custodes. The list is satisfyingly short.

To the bolded, that's not satisfying. That's bad.

I'd also hesitate to call our Land raiders good. They are the least good version in the game, and it's been a while since I've seen any LR. Perhaps if they gave it AoC and the new lascannon profile without price increase.

I should clarify, by tanks I really just mean the Caladius and to a lesser extent, the Pallas. The transports all suck for sure but hopefully that doesn't come as a surprise. Land raiders across all factions have been bad for years, Custodes variant is no exception.

I'll have whatever he's smoking!

To call our codex great is....odd. We were given a convoluted and confusing mess of a stance system, that we didn't need, want, or care about, in an effort to make us MORE like Space MArines than ever.

We were given a new unit that is essentially a new HQ that costs almost as much as a generic HQ, but is less useful than our worst HQ, which is an odd balance. He's not Walken, but he's also not as good as a generic SC with an Axe.

None of our legacy units were touched or improved. All of our best units were irrevocably cripled in some way.

Basically they let someone who NEVER played Custodes, design a new Custodes book. I hate it and I will always hate it.

None of our

EviscerationPlague wrote:I mean, the Blade Champ is a killer, well, champion unit entry.

Well sure, but the question still remains. What changed? For the longest time since the codex came out he was considered a slow beatstick that didn't provide enough value over other options, he even got more expensive.

artific3r wrote:Now that 9e is coming to an end I think it's safe to say Custodes got one of the best codexes of the edition.

1. Consistent representation in high level competitive play, with the occasional GT win
2. Absolutely crushes low-to-mid tables, and casual play in general
3. Multiple competitively viable subfactions, with a variety of powerful list archetypes
4. Excellent internal balance. Dreads are good. Bikes and troops are good. Tanks and HQs are good. Biggest losers in this department are terminators and wardens, but even Allarus termis and termi captains show up at GTs semi-regularly. Venatari have also been showing up a lot lately. I challenge you to name a codex with better internal balance than Custodes. The list is satisfyingly short.

Yeah I just really can't agree on your 4th point here.

Units that always show up:
-bike captain
-trajann
-troops because you need them for your detachment, doesn't necessarily mean they are super awesome.

Units that show up very often, but somewhat depend on the list you are going for:
-bikes
-achillus
-ven dread
-caladius

Units that show up, but more seldomly compared to the above category:
-galatus
-venatari
-single allarus termis
-standard vexillus
-pallas
-telemon
-blade champ

Unit that never show up in the vast majority of lists:
-wardens
-aquilon termis
-vigilators
-custodian guard with adrasite and pyrithite spears
-witchseekers
-agamatus jetbikes
-ven land raider (duh)
-orion
-ares
-sisters rhino
-coronus
-knight centuria
-standard shield captain
-valerian
-aleya

About 50% of our units never see play competitively. Considering our already quite small roster of available units I couldn't call that good internal balance. Don't get me wrong it's not horrible, but not good.

It's among the best.

Our best and most iconic units (bike squads) are now kinda worthless, and they severely nerfed (Via omission) already worthless units (Wardens and LRs)

It's almost like GW said, hey, you know that 1 unit that everyone loves about this faction? Lets make it crap instead. Take away it's Obsec, and make it a tank hunter. Then make them more like Space Marines. Give them phases, and doctrines, and make them cost even more for relics and stuff.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Our best and most iconic units (bike squads) are now kinda worthless, and they severely nerfed (Via omission) already worthless units (Wardens and LRs)

It's almost like GW said, hey, you know that 1 unit that everyone loves about this faction? Lets make it crap instead. Take away it's Obsec, and make it a tank hunter. Then make them more like Space Marines. Give them phases, and doctrines, and make them cost even more for relics and stuff.

Most competitive players would disagree with you. Bikes show up in a lot of lists an apparently do quite well.
Your local meta might look different if you play casually and people you play with specifically tech against the bikes or if terrain is set up in way that makes it difficult or impossible to hide them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

artific3r wrote:
It's among the best.

I can't even dispute that, because I don't know the numbers/unit-viability for all other factions, but if around 50% non-viable units is considered excellent and a good place for internal balance, I would say we should hold GW to a higher standard.

It’s good to hold GW to a high standard. It is also important to have some perspective. Play some other factions or some other editions and it will be obvious that Custodes received one of the best books they have ever written in many years. If that’s still not good enough for you, then perhaps your issue isn’t with the Custodes faction but 40k as a whole. Because this is as good as it gets.

I don't care if it's a top performing codex. Less than 5% of the people on these forums is a meta chasing top player, or I would even say highly competitive. Most are just theory crafters who likely just battlescribe lists and own maybe 1 actual list.

My main, and really only grievance, is that I didn't choose to buy a Space Marine force, or a Knights army, or even a Ork Army. I chose A Custodes list because as a new player, I wanted something that was easier to play. I really enjoyed playing Custodes in 8th, and part of 9th, because it allowed me to create my thematic list and play it the way I wanted to.

Then this codex drops, and my bikes are kinda crap outside of a SC or a small unit of them. My Terminators have been nerfed for a reason I still do not understand, and now I'm FORCED to take units I don't want to, because there is a limit on SCs. I just hate the codex because it personally ruined the way I want to play the game that I bought, assembled, painted, and chose to play. Now I'm playing a less powerful list that more resembles a Golden Blood Angels list. Only they can break the 2 damage barrier that we seem stuck at.

I completely understand this is a subjective and worthless opinion. I just wanted to explain why I hate this new codex. It's not what I signed up to play.

Hello there,

am I blind or there are no rules for the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor? I wanted to include some sisters in my list and I'm surprised they can't get their signature transport...

Spado wrote:
Hello there,

am I blind or there are no rules for the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor? I wanted to include some sisters in my list and I'm surprised they can't get their signature transport...

Judging by the fact that GW hasn't really focused on SoS ever, I am guessing no. There are hints that GW is making them a playable faction in 30k soon, so maybe when that happens?

Spado wrote:
Hello there,

am I blind or there are no rules for the Kharon Pattern Acquisitor? I wanted to include some sisters in my list and I'm surprised they can't get their signature transport...

The kharon pattern aquisitor unfortunately does not have a datasheet in 40k. The only transport option sisters of silence have in 40k is a rhino.
It does however have a datasheet in the new Horus Heresy edition and can be found in the new liber imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

artific3r wrote:
It’s good to hold GW to a high standard. It is also important to have some perspective. Play some other factions or some other editions and it will be obvious that Custodes received one of the best books they have ever written in many years. If that’s still not good enough for you, then perhaps your issue isn’t with the Custodes faction but 40k as a whole. Because this is as good as it gets.

Fair enough, but I still don't agree with the notion that criticism on internal balance is not as warranted because other factions have it worse, that's just whataboutism.

Hey,

I posted this in General - apologies in advance but this seems to be a more focused location (and thank you for the replies in that thread). I am not overly familiar with Custodes but using the Christmas box as an army core is pretty cost effective it looks like.

Box Set:
– 1x Captain-General Trajann Valoris
– 3x Vertus Praetors, one of which can be built as a Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike
---- If I understand correctly - if you make one a Shield Captain then the unit is only 2 and would not be valid (unit size 3-6) Why would this be advisable since you would need to buy a another set of 3??
– 3x Allarus Custodians, one of which can be built as a Vexilus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armour and another as a Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour
---- Similar to above question - it will make a unit of 2 or 1 and 2 single units
– 15x Custodian Guards, which include components to build some as Shield-Captains and Vexilus Praetors.

It has been mentioned here - and in a number of reddit threads - that adding a contemptor or two of various flavors would be good.


What else would be required to fill this out into a flexible "Weekend player" (non GT play), army? Cost effective is a factor so $600 USD in FW grav tanks is likely not in the cards...

Thx

Edit: wrong topic, sorry please delete

Tome_Keeper wrote:
Hey,

I posted this in General - apologies in advance but this seems to be a more focused location (and thank you for the replies in that thread). I am not overly familiar with Custodes but using the Christmas box as an army core is pretty cost effective it looks like.

Box Set:
– 1x Captain-General Trajann Valoris
– 3x Vertus Praetors, one of which can be built as a Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike
---- If I understand correctly - if you make one a Shield Captain then the unit is only 2 and would not be valid (unit size 3-6) Why would this be advisable since you would need to buy a another set of 3??
– 3x Allarus Custodians, one of which can be built as a Vexilus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armour and another as a Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour
---- Similar to above question - it will make a unit of 2 or 1 and 2 single units
– 15x Custodian Guards, which include components to build some as Shield-Captains and Vexilus Praetors.

It has been mentioned here - and in a number of reddit threads - that adding a contemptor or two of various flavors would be good.


What else would be required to fill this out into a flexible "Weekend player" (non GT play), army? Cost effective is a factor so $600 USD in FW grav tanks is likely not in the cards...

Thx

You're right about the unit size thing. Ideally you'd want another box or two of bikes so you can run one as a bike captain and still have enough for 1-2 normal bike units. Get at least one plastic melta contemptor for general damage and defense. Two or three would be better. Get a unit or two of sisters of silence prosecutors to use as cheap, backfield objective holders. You don't really need more allarus terminators right now as most people usually run them as solo objective holder units. Blade champions are solid if you want another foot HQ. If you're open to souping and losing some special rules, a trio of knight helverins would compliment Custodes very well in place of the FW Caladius tanks.

I'd actually hold off until GW releases their teased update to the SoS line. Apparently it's 30k only right now, but that's never stopped it from transitioning to 40k where Custodes/SoS are concerned.

Apparently there is some new models, and enough to make them a stand alone force?

I can't really see the reasoning behind this. SoS are the extreme fringe of a niche faction that already has below average player base. The fact that someone at GW decided to possibly do this is interesting to say the least?

I hope they give SoS actual SW/HWs in their bolter squads. Give them Plasma rifles, rocket launchers, or even HBs. You might also consider giving them AoC?

A 10 strong unit of bolter SOS with 4 heavy bolters (special ammo too perhaps?) In a Custodes army would be very welcome. It would add a lot to the Custodes weak points to clear chaff units at range.

I must have missed that - Teasing new SoS units/models?

Tome_Keeper wrote:
I must have missed that - Teasing new SoS units/models?

There was nothing of the sort. Sisters of Silence recently have gotten new rules for the new Horus Heresy edition. There have been however no new models teased or announced. We also have no information on whether these new rules for sisters of silence are ever going to be converted to 40k.

As to your previous questions:
-you are correct that if you build a shield captain on bike you are going to need another box of jetbikes since 2 jetbikes are not a legal unit.
-as far as standard custodians go, in my opinion you can pick the loadout (spear or sword and board) that you like best. Both are playable.
-allarus terminators are more flexible in terms what units you want to build from one box since the minimum model size for a unit of allarus terminators is one. This does not apply to Aquilon terminators from forgeworld
-the plastic venerable contemptor from GW is a good unit and you don't necessarily need the Forgeworld variants. If you do want to get a forgeworld contemptor the Achillus seems to be the current hotness, the Galatus is also a very decent pick. The Telemon has fallen off a bit recently in terms of popularity (competitively speaking)
-if you want a "weekend player" army like you mentioned, add the units that you think are cool. If your Meta is weekend plays between good friends you do not need the latest competitive hotness. Just stay clear of the venerable Land Raider and the Forgeworld Coronus Grav-Carrier as they don't really add anything to a custodes force.
Wardens are another example of a unit which doesn't see any play competitively, but if you are only doing friendly games and you like the models, it's still a serviceable unit that can do some work. It all depends on your expectations and your local playing group.

Thanks for the advice all -

I picked up a plastic Contemptor with a MM and 2 new on spruce Vertus, then I got gifted a Combat Patrol - late birthday present.

So that will get me at:

– 1x Captain-General Trajann Valoris
– 8x Vertus Praetors
---1 Shield Captain
--- 1x3 Vertus
--- 1x4 Vertus (or 1x5 whichever
– 3x Allarus Custodians, I will probably build the shield captain and the vexilus for model diversity and run them as 1x units if i play them
– 18x Custodian Guards - which seems like a lot tbh
---- Looking at the Sagattarum kit for 3-to 5 of these models and split the rest out in squads of 3 spear and Sword/Board mix
-- The SOS from the CP box as 2x5 of the 'shooty' ones
-- And the Shield Captain and Vexilus from the CP box - looking like extras?
--- Finally the Multi Melta dread

So Zero to "a lot" in a week or so.... Looking at the Venatari for some more speed but that may be it until this lot gets figured out.

A bit of a rumor, but apparently the next balance update will give Custodes back Obsec on Fast attack and elites.

If true, what will we be changing? One-man Terminator squads will be a nice backfield objective grabber. Too tough to be taken out by misc. leftovers, but wastes enemy focus if they dedicate major force to it.

Jetbikes get a bit juicier again.

 cuda1179 wrote:
A bit of a rumor, but apparently the next balance update will give Custodes back Obsec on Fast attack and elites.

If true, what will we be changing? One-man Terminator squads will be a nice backfield objective grabber. Too tough to be taken out by misc. leftovers, but wastes enemy focus if they dedicate major force to it.

Jetbikes get a bit juicier again.

I'd be sceptical about that one. Yeah obsec would be nice, but there is nothing substantiating this rumor except some post on the custodes subreddit.

Yeah, giving Custodes back ObSec on bikes would put them near the line of broken for the cost again. Then they'd need nerfs. Same with our Jetpack elites, or our Stompy boys. Nope, I say keep it the same across the board, and just have troops ONLY for all factions, get Obsec.

The rumour more or less confirmed as a fake.

Which means tzeentch flamers could still get substantial nerf(rumour one was tiny)

I hadn't seen the flamer issue, what was it? I just remembered, I wish they'd give the melta power to our Melta Spears. Make them do stupid damage like everyone else's.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Okay, hear me out on this: what about the possibility of taking a full 10-model unit of Witchseekers in a Rhino and using it for early pressure? Yes, they'll bounce right off of most MEQ or better stuff, but with their pregame move they should be able to get in range to flame something fairly hard. 10 of them with a Rhino is 220 points I think, so less than a unit of 3 bikes, and could do pretty significant damage to anything without Armor of Contempt (thinking of gribblies like Tyranid Gaunts, Scarabs, most Ork troops, etc.). Disrupting at least one of your opponent's Psychic phases could be worth it as well, I would think (meaning maybe 2x5 rather than 1x10 unit could be good), although they are unlikely to live beyond that as GK or TS will probably just shoot them down and Daemons will beat them up in melee.

Main reason I ask is because I really would only need the Custodes combat patrol box to reach a decent 2k points threshold, and I kind of like the idea of bringing along Sisters of Silence as part of it. I feel like there must be a niche for them somewhere.

i have run these. I only ran 7 but they kicked ass and I loved them for fluff reasons. thing is they can't be charged by most stuff and they are pretty fast as the flamer is an assault weapon. sadly they die so easily so you need a plan for them right off the bat.

I used them as bait, basically, but they also harassed.normally its difficult to get the -1 to cast up the board with SOS as prosecutors often end up in you back field. these gals run up the field so all of the sudden that power comes into play. also, the strats are pretty good and with 7(or 10) d6 autohits at str4/5 ap1 they can delete chaff pretty well.

I love them. but they are probably not viable in tourney play. idk.

I imagine they could be valuable against Daemons. You're not paying for any AP on the unit, and as far as I know Daemons still don't have heavy access to shooting. Just a thought.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I hadn't seen the flamer issue, what was it? I just remembered, I wish they'd give the melta power to our Melta Spears. Make them do stupid damage like everyone else's.

Tzeentch flamers. 25pts for d6+3 s5 -2(easy access +1 to wound), fast, 3+ save vs shooting, 3 wounds. One of the most op units. Feel dirty bringing just 3 as effect for points so huge.

One unit(150pts) with easy access to buffs averages out about 16 wounds to T5 2+ save guys. 6 wounds vs T7+ 2+ save.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I imagine they could be valuable against Daemons. You're not paying for any AP on the unit, and as far as I know Daemons still don't have heavy access to shooting. Just a thought.

I had 2k daemons shot off the board by about 400pts daemons.

Subjective.

I did say heavy access to shooting, not shooting in general.

Is there a good avenue for Custodes vs. Daemons? I assume just anything with lots of attacks and good saves? So Terminators?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is there a good avenue for Custodes vs. Daemons? I assume just anything with lots of attacks and good saves? So Terminators?

As is custodians have several advantages as is. Ld11 makes daemonic deep strike nearly useless, dreadnoughts something many khorne daemons really, really, really hate. Basically daemons need psychic mw's, bloodthirsters and flamers to stand chance in killing department.

I dunno, a bloat drone can make really good work out of messing up my day. Daemons aren't just Khorne and Tzeentch?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno, a bloat drone can make really good work out of messing up my day. Daemons aren't just Khorne and Tzeentch?

Bloat Drones aren't from the Daemons Codex. They're Death Guard.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno, a bloat drone can make really good work out of messing up my day. Daemons aren't just Khorne and Tzeentch?

If he has that then he loses all the daemon bonuses. And dg don't get theirs either.

I really, really, really doubt you see bloat drones ln daemon army. Pure bonuses are too good. You taking allies looking kata's any time soon?

tneva82 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I dunno, a bloat drone can make really good work out of messing up my day. Daemons aren't just Khorne and Tzeentch?

If he has that then he loses all the daemon bonuses. And dg don't get theirs either.

I really, really, really doubt you see bloat drones ln daemon army. Pure bonuses are too good. You taking allies looking kata's any time soon?

Not quite accurate.

You can take up to a quarter your PL as Nurgle Daemons in a Death Guard army without losing Death Guard purity bonuses.
But vice versa doesn't work-take anything with your Daemons, and you lose the Warp Storm (which is... Mediocre, so not a huge deal).

That being said, Nurgle Daemons generally suck, and Death Guard have better options. Maybe a Beast of Nurgle for backhome objective sitting? But that's about it.

Then you are looking at death　guard army and not daemon army...


I'm talking about daemon army which is quite different to other army with daemonic allies(and seeing nurgle got short stick that's least of your worries and if you face dg army you want opponent to max on nurgle daemons).


But no bloat drones in daemon army without losing purity bonuses.

With the new force org release by GW, any faction can take anything with the new system, and not really lose anything. So as a Custodes player you can take max squads of Terminators, and Bikes, and 1 HQ, and call it a list. Looking forward to getting better look at this system. BIKE LISTS ARE BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!

Asking this here - since this crew would know.

How hard is it to get FW Achillus parts? I - now - have an Achillus that is missing some parts to assemble the right arm. I have the shoulder joint, the elbow joint, spear and greaves, but need the other pieces.

If you are looking legit parts and didn't buy kit yourself likely very hard

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
With the new force org release by GW, any faction can take anything with the new system, and not really lose anything. So as a Custodes player you can take max squads of Terminators, and Bikes, and 1 HQ, and call it a list. Looking forward to getting better look at this system. BIKE LISTS ARE BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!

120 shield guard!

Tome_Keeper wrote:
Asking this here - since this crew would know.

How hard is it to get FW Achillus parts? I - now - have an Achillus that is missing some parts to assemble the right arm. I have the shoulder joint, the elbow joint, spear and greaves, but need the other pieces.

If you have bought your achillus from forgeworld, contact their customer service. I have had a Galatus which came with the sword broken. I sent them a picture and they sent me a complete new Galatus kit for free.

Yep. Legit one you bought from fw it's dirt easy to get replacement parts.

Problems comes with recast/3d prints/2nd hand. On those you need same sources. And legit 2nd hand parts aren't common.

Ugh - Thanks all.

It is legit, but second hand. I am not opposed to 3rd party to get the parts but would strongly prefer actual FW bits.

From the looks of this - these parts are only for this model?

 Blndmage wrote:

120 shield guard!

You joke, but a 2k list could literally be 90 sns boys and Trajan.

Whelp, with the new "rumors/leaks" the best we can hope for is just Terminators getting Obsec, which is nice an all, but oh well. I didn't expect a new Abbadon the lost Custodian in rules format anyway.

I fell victim to drinking the clickbait koolaid again on YT, and thought everyone was supposed to be getting MASSIVE changes.

I do think the elimination of AOC is a good move, finally. MAY WE NEVER DO IT AGAIN!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Whelp, with the new "rumors/leaks" the best we can hope for is just Terminators getting Obsec, which is nice an all, but oh well. I didn't expect a new Abbadon the lost Custodian in rules format anyway.

I fell victim to drinking the clickbait koolaid again on YT, and thought everyone was supposed to be getting MASSIVE changes.

I do think the elimination of AOC is a good move, finally. MAY WE NEVER DO IT AGAIN!

Removing AoC is a bad move for two reasons:
1. GW "rules designers" started applying even more AP to weaponry on the impression it gets canceled out
2. New darlings Votaan have a better version of it for no reason

Yes, but 10th will completely wipe out the stupidity caused by 9th. So we can finally tear down this wall of special rules crap that we've been force fed for the last two years, and reduce bolter bloat, which is somehow a real thing, and now creating las bloat. Just make all small arms AP0 d1 again, and everyone back to their corners.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yes, but 10th will completely wipe out the stupidity caused by 9th. So we can finally tear down this wall of special rules crap that we've been force fed for the last two years, and reduce bolter bloat, which is somehow a real thing, and now creating las bloat. Just make all small arms AP0 d1 again, and everyone back to their corners.

Bolt Rifles were fine at AP-1.

I disagree. Keeping access to a 4/1/1 weapon as basic issue, is what started the whole stupidity that is AP creep in the first place. Then the Stalker needed AP2, then AOC, then everyone needed easy access to AP3+ to even kill basic infantry, now we have auto-wounding las pistols, which are more deadly to Space Marines than a squad of standard Bolters...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I disagree. Keeping access to a 4/1/1 weapon as basic issue, is what started the whole stupidity that is AP creep in the first place. Then the Stalker needed AP2, then AOC, then everyone needed easy access to AP3+ to even kill basic infantry, now we have auto-wounding las pistols, which are more deadly to Space Marines than a squad of standard Bolters...

The Stalker already had AP-2.

AoC came in because of other armies, not mirror matches.

Mirror matches had same ap creep.

Ap plenty isnt any more fine in marines than others. You can't just rein non-marine ap leaving marines silly ap amounts

tneva82 wrote:
Mirror matches had same ap creep.

Ap plenty isnt any more fine in marines than others. You can't just rein non-marine ap leaving marines silly ap amounts

But what's the silly AP amounts? Obviously Intercessors aren't broken or anything. You can argue the Doctrine system is lame, but it's hardly broken as it's only affecting a few weapons at a time.

You're making this argument in an edition where Shuriken weapons no longer need to roll that 6 because they already base AP, and that Fleshborers bore into armor better than a regular Bolter.

Certain factions have built in +1 AP to all bolter weapons. Some factions have basically auto-wounding flamers and Melta. It's not hard.

Then you have the fiasco that was space wolves being able to do silly things with TWC and Wulfen.

No, Space marines get multi-wound infantry, cheap as dirt units like Shield Guard, or DA Knights, which are the equivalent of most faction leaders, and youre honestly saying SM creep isn't a thing?

They have multiple units that literally broke this edition, and the previous edition. Melta Intercessors, HB Intercessors, Attack Bikes with Melta Spam, Melta Speeder spam, etc, etc. Then came the Black Templars and their magic fire pistols that suddenly heavy flamers, which had to be nerfed.

SM has always been the poster child faction of Lethality creep. Bolters are arguable, but the faction leading the AP charge isn't.

Heavy Bolters on the Heavy Intercessors was a problem?

Thats quite the take if I've ever seen it. Literally everything you listed managed to get outclassed really quick.

I am of course referring to the Executor HB, the one thats 48" H2 S5 AP2 D3. Once more, they created more bloat by creating special named Primaris weapons where none was needed. Also, these are being toted by what essentially is a 30ppm 15 wound squad. 30 if you go max. That was fine to launch, but 60ppm Terminators with S8 ap2 3d axes was too broken.

I don't get why people are arguing that SM didn't start the AP creep trend? Their whole gimmick at launch was everything that was AP 0 is now AP1, or can be made AP 1 during a phase?

So the new Dataslate lifts us up quite a bit. Armor of Contempt is gone and the Auspice, Esteemed Amalgam and Martial Discretion stratagems are no longer restricted to once per game use.

Also Core Infantry got their obsec back. Allarus Terminators seem way more tempting now and Wardens are no longer completely useless.

We definitely came out of this Dataslate stronger than we were before.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am of course referring to the Executor HB, the one thats 48" H2 S5 AP2 D3. Once more, they created more bloat by creating special named Primaris weapons where none was needed. Also, these are being toted by what essentially is a 30ppm 15 wound squad. 30 if you go max. That was fine to launch, but 60ppm Terminators with S8 ap2 3d axes was too broken.

I don't get why people are arguing that SM didn't start the AP creep trend? Their whole gimmick at launch was everything that was AP 0 is now AP1, or can be made AP 1 during a phase?

This is one of the takes of all time.
1. The extra AP is gonna be for only a third of your army if it's a TAC build vs only Heavy or only Melee, etc.
2. Really? Your complaint is a two shot AP-2 weapon?

Venatarii look a lot better now. They are core infantry, so with their deepstrike ability and obsec they could be a decent alternative to jetbikes.

So my aquilon terminator are back in business then!

Now that the 3 troop choises are not prequiered, could we do 1 or 2 man units of Terminators instead?

Tiberias wrote:
So the new Dataslate lifts us up quite a bit. Armor of Contempt is gone and the Auspice, Esteemed Amalgam and Martial Discretion stratagems are no longer restricted to once per game use.

Also Core Infantry got their obsec back. Allarus Terminators seem way more tempting now and Wardens are no longer completely useless.

We definitely came out of this Dataslate stronger than we were before.

These are all significant boosts to the army that lift us from "Ugh what trash" to "Hey, pretty good actually"

 Niiai wrote:
Now that the 3 troop choises are not prequiered, could we do 1 or 2 man units of Terminators instead?

I'm laughing inside at the thought of an army of one -model terminator units and characters with 3 heavy support Telemon dreads.

Rule of 3 puts stop on that though

tneva82 wrote:
Rule of 3 puts stop on that though

Not if you Unleash the Lions. Been a long time since I've read up on that strat. Is it once per game?

 cuda1179 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Rule of 3 puts stop on that though

Not if you Unleash the Lions. Been a long time since I've read up on that strat. Is it once per game?

Nope. But it is still once per turn, and in the Command Phase, so they have to start the turn on the board.

Still, that makes a potent little group of HK Assassins. Send them out and watch the opponent waste time screening them out, rather than actually defending against the main thrust.

I would be cautiously optimistic about these changes.

Remember:

10th is right around the corner and the last time we were this good, they nerfed us in fairly short order. I don't want to spend the majority of 10th in the sub 40% club.

Hi guys,

I watched an Art of War video on the future meta ranking and Custodes.

They talked about Mech Custodes list with just Dreadnought and vehicules. Do you have more infos about it ? It will be played on LVO so maybe it is still a little top secret for the moment

Thanks !

 thori wrote:
Hi guys,

I watched an Art of War video on the future meta ranking and Custodes.

They talked about Mech Custodes list with just Dreadnought and vehicules. Do you have more infos about it ? It will be played on LVO so maybe it is still a little top secret for the moment

Thanks !

No secret. Custodes players have been playing 2-3 caladius, 3 ven dreads and/or Achillus dreads for months. It's a strong build, but once you go against Votann or Imperial Guard you just fold like paper with a mechanised list like that.

Yeah, not really a major trick to throw the best dreads in the game into a list. Only the big problem is 9th has made Custodes into Paper People. Everyone has a way to shut down invulns, or easy access to multi-wound high value, low cost shooting. Basically, the new (rules wise) Space Marine Close Combat Terminator squads cost almost half as much as our cheapest units, and do far more powerful things. With the new list building rules, expect to see tides of Terminator armor. Sporting Thunder Hammers and SS. Hell, even the new Inceptors with free plasma eat our lunch.

If your Marine opponent drops some Plasmaceptors and shoots them at one of your units, pop Emperor's Auspice to turn their rerolls off and watch them blow themselves up. Probably won't save whatever they were shooting at, but it'll be funny!

I ve been playing dreads for months. different configs like: 6 contemptors (Achilles, galadius, venerable), 2 galadius, 2 telemons and so on. I only own one caladium so that has limited me but still; the build works.

I always try to run a Death Star of 2 or 3x3 sagittarums and Trajan too and feel they are just amazing straight up. With AoC finally gone they will be even better.

I think with auspice being available each turn its rather simple what I want to do now: infantry spam off of emperors chosen for the rerolls. Lots of CP and just keeps everything alive and trample on objectives. I love that build.

Here's the kicker, with AOC gone, most SM armies will be entirely First-born Terminators with TH/SS combos, backed up by a "like" captain. Now that literally everything is free.

This means hordes of 2+4++ bodies, swinging massive flat 3 damage hammers at everything in sight. Depending on the chapter it gets even stupider.

Yeah, 9th needs to be put down. This has gotten out of hand.

rule of three kind of keeps that stuff honest, but yeah, hammer termies will be brutal against us.

On the other hand. five of them charge three of our shield dudes. We pop transhuman they hit on fours, they can't reroll through auspice, we save on fours. if they go fury of the first, we counter with shield wall. 16 attacks become 8 become 4 and then we save on threes (fours in the doctrine but thats not until t3). so one dead typically. Maybe 2.

but now we hit them with three of our guys and the 2 surviving dudes. thats 20 attacks hitting on 2s with at least a reroll from EC. So thats like.. 17-18 through wounding on 3thats 12ish saves on fours lets say they make 6. Thats 3 dead and now we're just not going away anytime soon.

I know they are cheaper and Im not saying its beautiful, but we are still better in that exchange, id say.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
rule of three kind of keeps that stuff honest, but yeah, hammer termies will be brutal against us.

On the other hand. five of them charge three of our shield dudes. We pop transhuman they hit on fours, they can't reroll through auspice, we save on fours. if they go fury of the first, we counter with shield wall. 16 attacks become 8 become 4 and then we save on threes (fours in the doctrine but thats not until t3). so one dead typically. Maybe 2.

but now we hit them with three of our guys and the 2 surviving dudes. thats 20 attacks hitting on 2s with at least a reroll from EC. So thats like.. 17-18 through wounding on 3thats 12ish saves on fours lets say they make 6. Thats 3 dead and now we're just not going away anytime soon.

I know they are cheaper and Im not saying its beautiful, but we are still better in that exchange, id say.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken your math is off.

5 terminators with TH and stormshields charging 3 custodes is 16 attacks at dmg3. Even with transhuman and auspice that's flat 2 unsaved wounds, so 2 dead custodes. If it's space wolves they probably kill one more.

3 custodes charging 5 terminators with stormshields and hammers is 9 attacks at dmg 2 against a 4++. We hit on 2s, wound on 3s and they save on 4s...thats 2,5 unsaved wounds sooo one dead terminator....doesn't seem like much of a contest to me. If it's Dark Angels it gets a bit worse due to perma-transhuman.

This is why I've been preaching since the beginning of the edition that custodes should have been more expensive per model but should get an extra wound.

I don't much care anymore, but for the record: in my opinion giving space marines hundreds of points of free wargear was a massive mistake and an astoundingly lazy attempt to balance the game....whatever that's even supposed to mean and at this point, who cares?

Tiberias wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:
rule of three kind of keeps that stuff honest, but yeah, hammer termies will be brutal against us.

On the other hand. five of them charge three of our shield dudes. We pop transhuman they hit on fours, they can't reroll through auspice, we save on fours. if they go fury of the first, we counter with shield wall. 16 attacks become 8 become 4 and then we save on threes (fours in the doctrine but thats not until t3). so one dead typically. Maybe 2.

but now we hit them with three of our guys and the 2 surviving dudes. thats 20 attacks hitting on 2s with at least a reroll from EC. So thats like.. 17-18 through wounding on 3thats 12ish saves on fours lets say they make 6. Thats 3 dead and now we're just not going away anytime soon.

I know they are cheaper and Im not saying its beautiful, but we are still better in that exchange, id say.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken your math is off.

5 terminators with TH and stormshields charging 3 custodes is 16 attacks at dmg3. Even with transhuman and auspice that's flat 2 unsaved wounds, so 2 dead custodes. If it's space wolves they probably kill one more.

3 custodes charging 5 terminators with stormshields and hammers is 9 attacks at dmg 2 against a 4++. We hit on 2s, wound on 3s and they save on 4s...thats 2,5 unsaved wounds sooo one dead terminator....doesn't seem like much of a contest to me. If it's Dark Angels it gets a bit worse due to perma-transhuman.

This is why I've been preaching since the beginning of the edition that custodes should have been more expensive per model but should get an extra wound.

I don't much care anymore, but for the record: in my opinion giving space marines hundreds of points of free wargear was a massive mistake and an astoundingly lazy attempt to balance the game....whatever that's even supposed to mean and at this point, who cares?

Everyone keeps pointing to Space Wolves, but don't BA or FT or even Death Company Marines with Thunder Hammers and Jump Packs? I mean, Blood Angels Melee Terminators getting +1 to wounding, and then a horde of Death Company Marines getting first turn charges with Jump Packs, Thunder Hammers, and a free 5+++? I mean, this new "balance" is me thinking GW has completely gone off the deep end. Say hello to your new SM Overlords boys. They come in tons of different colors.

4+/2+ on the offense isn’t as good as 3+/3+.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:
rule of three kind of keeps that stuff honest, but yeah, hammer termies will be brutal against us.

On the other hand. five of them charge three of our shield dudes. We pop transhuman they hit on fours, they can't reroll through auspice, we save on fours. if they go fury of the first, we counter with shield wall. 16 attacks become 8 become 4 and then we save on threes (fours in the doctrine but thats not until t3). so one dead typically. Maybe 2.

but now we hit them with three of our guys and the 2 surviving dudes. thats 20 attacks hitting on 2s with at least a reroll from EC. So thats like.. 17-18 through wounding on 3thats 12ish saves on fours lets say they make 6. Thats 3 dead and now we're just not going away anytime soon.

I know they are cheaper and Im not saying its beautiful, but we are still better in that exchange, id say.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken your math is off.

5 terminators with TH and stormshields charging 3 custodes is 16 attacks at dmg3. Even with transhuman and auspice that's flat 2 unsaved wounds, so 2 dead custodes. If it's space wolves they probably kill one more.

3 custodes charging 5 terminators with stormshields and hammers is 9 attacks at dmg 2 against a 4++. We hit on 2s, wound on 3s and they save on 4s...thats 2,5 unsaved wounds sooo one dead terminator....doesn't seem like much of a contest to me. If it's Dark Angels it gets a bit worse due to perma-transhuman.

This is why I've been preaching since the beginning of the edition that custodes should have been more expensive per model but should get an extra wound.

I don't much care anymore, but for the record: in my opinion giving space marines hundreds of points of free wargear was a massive mistake and an astoundingly lazy attempt to balance the game....whatever that's even supposed to mean and at this point, who cares?

Everyone keeps pointing to Space Wolves, but don't BA or FT or even Death Company Marines with Thunder Hammers and Jump Packs? I mean, Blood Angels Melee Terminators getting +1 to wounding, and then a horde of Death Company Marines getting first turn charges with Jump Packs, Thunder Hammers, and a free 5+++? I mean, this new "balance" is me thinking GW has completely gone off the deep end. Say hello to your new SM Overlords boys. They come in tons of different colors.

Yeah, my marh was just yada yada math but I wasn’t that much off. In my example I went in with the two surviving guards(should prolly be one as you say) plus three more 😅

Does anyone feel like doing Mass Warden Bombs would be effective now? Dropping 10 Wardens with spears into the back line and letting them bully the crap out of everything? I am honestly desperate to come up with a way to use these 10 wardens my wife bought me 2 years ago, that are still in plastic. Do you think GW would let me do a 1-1 swap?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does anyone feel like doing Mass Warden Bombs would be effective now? Dropping 10 Wardens with spears into the back line and letting them bully the crap out of everything? I am honestly desperate to come up with a way to use these 10 wardens my wife bought me 2 years ago, that are still in plastic. Do you think GW would let me do a 1-1 swap?

You can generally do returns for equal or greater value of product at a GW if the product is sealed, yeah.

So what are your thought on allies? I don´t like the forge world models, which is limiting my custodes options a bit. But I was thinking that it might be worth adding 2 Amiger Helverins to my rooster.

I have also been playing around with the thought of using a block of wardens, now that the troops requirement is gone. For 5 more points you get one additional attack, + fnp and bodyguard.

I feel like a warden blob makes for a really effective screen, with Jetbikes, and SM allied Terminator squads. Close combat or shooty. I'd love to try it but I never owned any SM Terminators and I can't really "counts as" with the Primaris Assault squads I own.

 JNAProductions wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does anyone feel like doing Mass Warden Bombs would be effective now? Dropping 10 Wardens with spears into the back line and letting them bully the crap out of everything? I am honestly desperate to come up with a way to use these 10 wardens my wife bought me 2 years ago, that are still in plastic. Do you think GW would let me do a 1-1 swap?

You can generally do returns for equal or greater value of product at a GW if the product is sealed, yeah.

Hi guys,

It "seems" that a Custodes was Top1 at GT Australia Ark of Omens (this weekend ?) with this list:



Really different list !

So I'd give dollars to doughnuts the Warden bomb was a red herring in this match. Anyone got deets on how he actually played it?

Imperial guard are suddenly really popular at my gaming group.... Go figure. And suprise suprise they're all playing born soldiers, russes and kasyrkins.

Anyone have good tips for dealing with those high damage weapons and auto wounding everything?

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Imperial guard are suddenly really popular at my gaming group.... Go figure. And suprise suprise they're all playing born soldiers, russes and kasyrkins.

Anyone have good tips for dealing with those high damage weapons and auto wounding everything?

Healthy application of https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/Legio-custodes-heavy-dreadnought-body-2017 This, and some of our tanks out to outright make them turn into the brown pants legion.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Imperial guard are suddenly really popular at my gaming group.... Go figure. And suprise suprise they're all playing born soldiers, russes and kasyrkins.

Anyone have good tips for dealing with those high damage weapons and auto wounding everything?

Healthy application of https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/Legio-custodes-heavy-dreadnought-body-2017 This, and some of our tanks out to outright make them turn into the brown pants legion.

No. Sry, but that's terrible advice. New Guard will happily remove any dreadnoughts you put in front of them. A unit of kasrkin with their wombo combo can take down 2-3 dreads on their own...and they don't even need super lucky dice for that.

Putting heavy vehicles or dreads in front of new Guard or Votann is generally a bad idea.

Take infantry, play the mission and hope that there is enough terrain on the board.

And hope GW will errata that kaskrin stratagem to max 6 CP period and not per target unit.

I do believe that imperial knights has a similarly worded relic or warlordtrait.

BLESSED BY THE SACRISTANS

This warlord bears a token of favour from Sacristans in the form of an artificer weapon of unrivalled quality.

Each time this WARLORD makes a ranged attack, on an unmodified wound roll of 6 that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal damage (to a maximum of 6 mortal wounds per unit per phase).

 Niiai wrote:
I do believe that imperial knights has a similarly worded relic or warlordtrait.

BLESSED BY THE SACRISTANS

This warlord bears a token of favour from Sacristans in the form of an artificer weapon of unrivalled quality.

Each time this WARLORD makes a ranged attack, on an unmodified wound roll of 6 that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to the normal damage (to a maximum of 6 mortal wounds per unit per phase).

The main difference being that the knight doesn't have the volume of shots a unit of kasrkin can pump out, can't get full re-rolls to hit and wound and doesn't get auto wounds on 5s to hit.

Kasrkin are just straight up busted and everyone knows that, but guard has plenty other tools to reliably remove dreads and tanks.

GWs gotta sell those new sculpts. Don't expect a change any time soon, unless they start getting 70% WR.

 thori wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does anyone feel like doing Mass Warden Bombs would be effective now? Dropping 10 Wardens with spears into the back line and letting them bully the crap out of everything? I am honestly desperate to come up with a way to use these 10 wardens my wife bought me 2 years ago, that are still in plastic. Do you think GW would let me do a 1-1 swap?

You can generally do returns for equal or greater value of product at a GW if the product is sealed, yeah.

Hi guys,

It "seems" that a Custodes was Top1 at GT Australia Ark of Omens (this weekend ?) with this list:

Spoiler:

Player: Liam Hackett

Uprising Adeliade: 2023

Factions: Adeptus Custodes

Secondaries (given up)

Assasinate: 13 points (including warlord)

No prisoners: 85 wounds (9 points)

BID: 2

Nil other




++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Elites

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Solar Watch

Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen

+ HQ +

Aleya [4 PL, 75pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, 175pts]: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [8 PL, 200pts]: 1. Master of Martial Strategy, 2. Champion of the Imperium, Stratagem: Warlord Trait. (+1 CP if warlord, cancels out cost of warlord trait stratagem)

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [9 PL, 180pts]
. 3x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia: 3x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 3x Castellan Axe, 3x Misericordia

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 60pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 60pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia

Custodian Wardens [25 PL, 500pts]
. 10x Warden w/ Guardian Spear & Misericordia: 10x Guardian Spear, 10x Misericordia

Custodian Wardens [25 PL, 500pts]
. 10x Warden w/ Guardian Spear & Misericordia: 10x Guardian Spear, 10x Misericordia

Vexilus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [6 PL, -2CP, 115pts]: (Solar Watch): Sally Forth, Castellan's Mark, Misericordia, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Witchseekers [3 PL, 60pts]: Witchseeker Sister Superior. Witchseeker flamer.
. 4x Witchseeker: 4x Witchseeker Flamer

+ Dedicated Transport +

Anathema Psykana Rhino [4 PL, 75pts]

++ Total: [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

Really different list !

I love the list. Im a footslogger at heart with custodes and have even played 3x10 guards builds in the past, but honestly, I dont really understand how this list can win anything big.

So you advance and charge ONE of the blobs, right? and then what? The list has no shooting what so ever, its locked to like two maybe three areas where it can do stuff and just seems pretty easy to dance around and just shoot off the board.

what am I missing?

Scoundrel80 wrote:

 thori wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does anyone feel like doing Mass Warden Bombs would be effective now? Dropping 10 Wardens with spears into the back line and letting them bully the crap out of everything? I am honestly desperate to come up with a way to use these 10 wardens my wife bought me 2 years ago, that are still in plastic. Do you think GW would let me do a 1-1 swap?

You can generally do returns for equal or greater value of product at a GW if the product is sealed, yeah.

Hi guys,

It "seems" that a Custodes was Top1 at GT Australia Ark of Omens (this weekend ?) with this list:

Spoiler:

Player: Liam Hackett

Uprising Adeliade: 2023

Factions: Adeptus Custodes

Secondaries (given up)

Assasinate: 13 points (including warlord)

No prisoners: 85 wounds (9 points)

BID: 2

Nil other




++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Elites

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Solar Watch

Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen

+ HQ +

Aleya [4 PL, 75pts]

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, 175pts]: Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [8 PL, 200pts]: 1. Master of Martial Strategy, 2. Champion of the Imperium, Stratagem: Warlord Trait. (+1 CP if warlord, cancels out cost of warlord trait stratagem)

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [9 PL, 180pts]
. 3x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia: 3x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 3x Castellan Axe, 3x Misericordia

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 60pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 60pts]
. Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia

Custodian Wardens [25 PL, 500pts]
. 10x Warden w/ Guardian Spear & Misericordia: 10x Guardian Spear, 10x Misericordia

Custodian Wardens [25 PL, 500pts]
. 10x Warden w/ Guardian Spear & Misericordia: 10x Guardian Spear, 10x Misericordia

Vexilus Praetor in Allarus Terminator Armor [6 PL, -2CP, 115pts]: (Solar Watch): Sally Forth, Castellan's Mark, Misericordia, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Witchseekers [3 PL, 60pts]: Witchseeker Sister Superior. Witchseeker flamer.
. 4x Witchseeker: 4x Witchseeker Flamer

+ Dedicated Transport +

Anathema Psykana Rhino [4 PL, 75pts]

++ Total: [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

Really different list !

I love the list. Im a footslogger at heart with custodes and have even played 3x10 guards builds in the past, but honestly, I dont really understand how this list can win anything big.

So you advance and charge ONE of the blobs, right? and then what? The list has no shooting what so ever, its locked to like two maybe three areas where it can do stuff and just seems pretty easy to dance around and just shoot off the board.

what am I missing?

That event was in Australia. Apart from being known to have a bit of a wonky meta, I'd take a step back an wait a little bit until the arks of omen meta settles before making any final judgments on what lists are good now.

Maybe with obsec and the strat-nerfs reverted we're still among the top contenders when the dust settles, but imo it's a bit too early to tell.

id say the 6x3 sagittarums with 3 calladius and EC rerolls seem amazingly strong now that ap1 makes a bit of sense again.

one more thing: could someone please tell me exactly where the pretorian plate stands as of right now? how does it work? I've lost track of the nerf-reverse nerf track : )

Scoundrel80 wrote:
one more thing: could someone please tell me exactly where the pretorian plate stands as of right now? how does it work? I've lost track of the nerf-reverse nerf track : )

Terminator captains unfortunately didn't get their obsec back as far as I understand. They are also eclipsed heavily by Trajann, the Bike Captain and to a lesser extent by the Blade Champ.
You can run the combo and do some cool stuff with it, but it comes with the opportunity cost of not running a better character.

Tiberias wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:
one more thing: could someone please tell me exactly where the pretorian plate stands as of right now? how does it work? I've lost track of the nerf-reverse nerf track : )

Terminator captains unfortunately didn't get their obsec back as far as I understand. They are also eclipsed heavily by Trajann, the Bike Captain and to a lesser extent by the Blade Champ.
You can run the combo and do some cool stuff with it, but it comes with the opportunity cost of not running a better character.

Terminator captains should have obsec, they are infantry. anathema psykana troops is so the rhino doesnt get obsec.

- ADEPTUS CUSTODES INFANTRY and ANATHEMA PSYKANA Troops in ADEPTUS CUSTODES Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability

terennNash wrote:

Terminator captains should have obsec, they are infantry. anathema psykana troops is so the rhino doesnt get obsec.

- ADEPTUS CUSTODES INFANTRY and ANATHEMA PSYKANA Troops in ADEPTUS CUSTODES Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability

They also need CORE, which captains don't have.

but I was thinking: how do the rules of the plate work now? is it a heroic intervention, when do you fight, how does the move work basically? it doesn't work as written anymore, right?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
but I was thinking: how do the rules of the plate work now? is it a heroic intervention, when do you fight, how does the move work basically? it doesn't work as written anymore, right?

So once per game in heroic intervene phase you aren't in combat but teleport within 3" of friendly unit and in engagement range to enemy? Guess you could try to argue it isn't heroic intervene denying opponent chance to attack you but that's stretching it. In any case you do it and you get to attack in any case.

As for when when you would normally fight.

Don't see what has changed regarding that relic.

It was FAQed to be a HI.
So you teleport in and get murdered.

Allarus are in a wierd spot right now. They waffle between garbage and niche garbage. I'd rather tak Aquillon every day and twice on Monday. Or, for the points, Wardens. They have no business costing 60ppm. All their best stuff is tied to CP. Wardens with Axes or spears are now basically superior per cost.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Allarus are in a wierd spot right now. They waffle between garbage and niche garbage. I'd rather tak Aquillon every day and twice on Monday. Or, for the points, Wardens. They have no business costing 60ppm. All their best stuff is tied to CP. Wardens with Axes or spears are now basically superior per cost.

No, they are not. They have good value as a very annoying deepstrike threat when played as singletons and for completing behind enemy lines. A single allarus is also a good backfield objective holder that is quite annoying to remove when in cover.
So yeah, allarus are actually fine, aquilon have better weapons but are overcosted in my opinion.

Allarus for single-model annoyance, Aquilon for 3-man units with a purpose.

Hi guys,

I have a really hard time now versus Iron hands of my friend.
He plays 3 Redemptor, 2 * 10 reactor squads, 3 devastator full melta with 1 storm speeder. There are too many melta everywhere.

How to counter this kind of heavy fire list ?

I tried previous solar watch list but with few success...

 thori wrote:
Hi guys,

I have a really hard time now versus Iron hands of my friend.
He plays 3 Redemptor, 2 * 10 reactor squads, 3 devastator full melta with 1 storm speeder. There are too many melta everywhere.

How to counter this kind of heavy fire list ?

I tried previous solar watch list but with few success...

I feel you, I run an pretty much all bikes list, and I can't keep my guys alive in the current Meta. SM die a lot easier now to massed low cost shooting, so you MIGHT try loading up on spears and fast attack shooting...Our spears are basically death to most cheap infantry. I've heard good things about blobs of wardens getting 20-30 shots off with spears.

What are your experience feedback guys versus Iron hands or heavy fire list on Ark Of Omen meta ?

Asstarts can throw such ungodly powerful dakka right now I'd just pack up and leave if my casual opponent showed up with IH. If you are in a tournament meta situation, just play for time and pray for them to make mistakes.

I havent played against up to date IH lists, but I've played vs a ton of heavy shooty lists both eldar and sisters in nephilim. Is it really that bad?

you give them a target or two at -1 to hit, pop auspice and transhuman and hope for the best. then you kill them as well as you can. Rinse and repeat. if they play the infantry version, every time they fail a save, a dude dies as all you have is flat2 or better.

im not saying, IH are not good, im just saying I think we are as good or almost as good. obviously, you'll have to git gud at rolling 4++s with all the melta in this new world, but with something like 6x3 saggitarums slogging forward under vexilla protection (I feel thats huge again to give us the best defense in the game) and 2-3 calladius who absolutely love killing marines our shooting is no slouch either.

I say that list has play into IH.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. with AoC gone we are now 1-2+/4++/3w beasts behind t5. and opponents can't reroll or wound on anything better than 4s. The vex makes most things hit us on 4s.

Hey all I really wanted to paint/play Sisters of Silence but sadly they're now in codex Custodes and can't be taken as allied or such for other Imperium armies. So I got myself the Combat Patrol.

As of now, are their units terrible or decent for regular play ? I aim to play with rule of cool so I know I won't be optimised but just wanted to know if I should wait 10th before really committing on the Custodes paint-wise (I have two other armies to paint). I'll be playing around 1000 pts.

I always loved the Vigilators and now they're 12 pts so that's a solid buff from 17/18 pts. But in a faction of melee Elites they might feel redundant. The Witchseekers have a neat flamer though, and their Rhino being able to forward deploy is a nice touch (can I have a squad of Flamers and a squad of Swords in the same Rhino and do the 6" move ?).

I've seen they have Aleya and a regular HQ now, are they good enough to play ?

Thanks in advance golden people

So I got into Custodes with the battleforce and wondered if a foot list could work.

Something like

Trajann
Allarus shield captain

3x cust gard
3x sagittarum
9x cust guard

1x allarus
1x allarus
9x warden
Vexila praetor - magnifica banner


3x bikes w salvo

So who is expecting what specific nerfs to Custodes?

I'm guessing a bump in points for Wardens, Guardians, and another smack in the mouth regarding Strats.

Guessing back to once per game for some, and strict limitations on when others can go. No way GW lets us stay at the 65ish% we are now.

10th is gonna be here sooner than another update for Custodes. Don't think it's something to consider thinking about.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So who is expecting what specific nerfs to Custodes?

I'm guessing a bump in points for Wardens, Guardians, and another smack in the mouth regarding Strats.

Guessing back to once per game for some, and strict limitations on when others can go. No way GW lets us stay at the 65ish% we are now.

Maybe these data have evolved during this 2 weeks but Custodes are not at 65% but more a 53% which is fine (according to stat-check). Iron hands on the other hand...

 thori wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So who is expecting what specific nerfs to Custodes?

I'm guessing a bump in points for Wardens, Guardians, and another smack in the mouth regarding Strats.

Guessing back to once per game for some, and strict limitations on when others can go. No way GW lets us stay at the 65ish% we are now.

Maybe these data have evolved during this 2 weeks but Custodes are not at 65% but more a 53% which is fine (according to stat-check). Iron hands on the other hand...

GW data is whack as always. Custodes are good in Arks and can win events. They are NOT at 65% winrate.

Like has been said already, I would be extremely surprised if GW made any changes to any faction not Astartes related in the next few months before dropping 10th. It's fairly clear they have stopped caring in the attempt to push SM 2.0 before 10th drops in the Spring.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Like has been said already, I would be extremely surprised if GW made any changes to any faction not Astartes related in the next few months before dropping 10th. It's fairly clear they have stopped caring in the attempt to push SM 2.0 before 10th drops in the Spring.

What? You said in your last post you were expecting points changes and stratagem nerfs to Custodes.

Incognito15 wrote:
So I got into Custodes with the battleforce and wondered if a foot list could work.

Something like

Trajann
Allarus shield captain

3x cust gard
3x sagittarum
9x cust guard

1x allarus
1x allarus
9x warden
Vexila praetor - magnifica banner


3x bikes w salvo

I do not know.. It is inspiered around the two 10 man warden list that has been doing OK? I dont really know how that list plays. I trued a verison of it and it is so very imobile. One units of boys with 'da jump' scored 15 points and 5 cp with behind enemy lines. The dakkajets took down my models holding bjectoves with the help of ghazgul whaag (ekstra shots and better AP.)

I would prefer my list with either faster movement (bikes) or some better shooting (bike rockets, dreadnought meltaguns or some forge world stuff.) Good luck though.

Spartacus wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Like has been said already, I would be extremely surprised if GW made any changes to any faction not Astartes related in the next few months before dropping 10th. It's fairly clear they have stopped caring in the attempt to push SM 2.0 before 10th drops in the Spring.

What? You said in your last post you were expecting points changes and stratagem nerfs to Custodes.

Right, and guess what?

GW is considering "minor" nerfs to Custodes and other mid-top tier factions. Heavy nerfs to DA and IH, and likely ignore GSC, but Custodes will likely get knocked back into the "Once per game" BS of their main strats, and then GW will drop 10th. The whole not caring thing is they don't care what shape they leave Custodes in. Because the game of 9th will be dead. Not they don't care enough to write another "balance" sheet. There is already a balance sheet coming out in a few weeks, based solely off the recent tournaments.

This makes me worry about the scale. It looks like the new termi is taller than a custodes.


from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/a-mindblowing-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-is-coming/

Maybe the biggest change in the new edition is to datasheets.
The way core information on a datasheet is presented has changed, and with it we took the opportunity to re-stat every unit in Warhammer 40,000.
Every unit has new and reevaluated rules, so every army will feel new from day one of the new edition.
This huge update has also given us the opportunity to look again at lethality and durability across the entire game, and rebalance it at a stroke – something we could never do outside the launch of a new edition.

i hope this hints to a stats creep fix that makes custodes feel less like golden marines by having almost the same or worse stats.

So technically, there were some terminators (Non-primarchs) who were taller than a Custodian. Just off the top of my head, the Chapter master of the Minotaurs (sp?), The chapter masters of the BA Sub chapters, like Seth and the Knights of Blood guy, and Many of the Alpha Legion were said to be almost Primarch level height. At least 3 meters. It's closer to scale in my view.

Its the stat creep that comes with it that will scare me.

Custodies how is your Ork matchup? And how do you play it?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/04/just-how-tough-are-terminators-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/
so SM termis have T5 and 4++ now... i really hope custodes will have T6 other wise this is a fething joke

They might raise Allarus with actual terminator armor to T6, but will be surprised (but do hope to be!) if they bump them all to 6 across the board.

If they don't bump them to T6 or do something to make them tougher a SM termi will be no different from a custodes which would suck. the termi will even hin on 2+ with the ability.

That termie doesn't swing at 2+ on everything, shoot at 2+, and have a 2+4+ baked into every unit. I get that I'm all about hyperbole, but even I'm saying, tone it down. If they bump Allarus up to T6, then we have to make bikes T7. That will never happen. But who cares? We know less than 10% of what 10th will be. Can we wait to see a single Custodes Stat line before calling Marines unfair?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That termie doesn't swing at 2+ on everything, shoot at 2+, and have a 2+4+ baked into every unit. I get that I'm all about hyperbole, but even I'm saying, tone it down. If they bump Allarus up to T6, then we have to make bikes T7. That will never happen. But who cares? We know less than 10% of what 10th will be. Can we wait to see a single Custodes Stat line before calling Marines unfair?

Why not? T8 isn't cap anymore. Expect to see more T9 and even T10 in the game.

tneva82 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That termie doesn't swing at 2+ on everything, shoot at 2+, and have a 2+4+ baked into every unit. I get that I'm all about hyperbole, but even I'm saying, tone it down. If they bump Allarus up to T6, then we have to make bikes T7. That will never happen. But who cares? We know less than 10% of what 10th will be. Can we wait to see a single Custodes Stat line before calling Marines unfair?

Why not? T8 isn't cap anymore. Expect to see more T9 and even T10 in the game.

Don't be contrary just to be that way. You know why us fielding T7 bike squads and T9 Dreads would be cheese. 10th is shaping up to be Creeptacular before they even launch.

TIL that Terminators having T5 is power creep of the highest order

Relax LMAO.

No, saying we need to get T6 because they got T5, is power creep you incapable of reading trawfle.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That termie doesn't swing at 2+ on everything, shoot at 2+, and have a 2+4+ baked into every unit. I get that I'm all about hyperbole, but even I'm saying, tone it down. If they bump Allarus up to T6, then we have to make bikes T7. That will never happen. But who cares? We know less than 10% of what 10th will be. Can we wait to see a single Custodes Stat line before calling Marines unfair?

Why not? T8 isn't cap anymore. Expect to see more T9 and even T10 in the game.

Don't be contrary just to be that way. You know why us fielding T7 bike squads and T9 Dreads would be cheese. 10th is shaping up to be Creeptacular before they even launch.

Cheerleader In whar? 9e? Newsflash. 10e is coming. As you indicate you know complete 10e rules prove or you proseduuri to be liar.

Comparing stats based on 9e rules proves being clueless noob. You dont know rules nor points. If that t9 dread ccosts 1500 of 2000 pts is it cheese?

But guess you love proving to be always wrong

There are two things I'd like to use in 10th edition and not just in HH:

- basic custodes troops with solerite power gauntlets

- the sisters of silence Kharon Pattern Acquisitor

Spado wrote:
There are two things I'd like to use in 10th edition and not just in HH:

- basic custodes troops with solerite power gauntlets

- the sisters of silence Kharon Pattern Acquisitor

I'll second the solarite gauntlets. That single weapon option would make custodes dangerous on a whole other level.

guys, t5 on termies makes perfectly sense. they want to broaden the spectrum and use a wider range of t. very cool. I feel worse about the strat that gives full rerolls vs a target. Like having elder doom and guide on a thin each turn. Seems completely bonkers.

Dataslate is here guys and this is the only change for us:

"Change the Adeptus Custodes keyword in all instances on the Arcane Genetic Alchemy and Emperor’s Auspice Stratagems to read Adeptus Custodes Infantry. You cannot use both of these Stratagems on the same unit in the same phase"

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/13/vehicles-are-even-tougher-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

Repulsor being T12 and Stompa T14 i think this is good news, i am pretty sure custodes will not stay at T5.

 nordsturmking wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/13/vehicles-are-even-tougher-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

Repulsor being T12 and Stompa T14 i think this is good news, i am pretty sure custodes will not stay at T5.

Nothing we can really gather from here unless we get a Dread preview and make educated guesses.

The specific numbers don't really matter any more at this point. Not until we know how everything else is balanced.

It's time for us to forget everything we've ever known about what "T5" means in the context of 40k. The whole system is changing.

artific3r wrote:
The specific numbers don't really matter any more at this point. Not until we know how everything else is balanced.

It's time for us to forget everything we've ever known about what "T5" means in the context of 40k. The whole system is changing.

I wouldn't go that far. Marines are still T4, Bolters are S4 power fist are still S8

Fair enough. I suppose a good deal of the current relationships are being preserved even if a lot of things are changing. Let's say Custodes went to T6. Would that be a significant buff against current weapon profiles?

No, due to the new special rules that may be coming out on specific weapons. For instance, the new "devestating Wounds" worries me. It's like a worse variant of the HotE rule, except now every faction might get access to it.

But it's already badly implemented. An Assault Cannon does devestating wounds, but a Tau Railgun head shot doesn't? Also, correct me here, but Aren't Assault cannons smaller calibre than Heavy Bolters, ie, should HBs be doing devestating wounds?

I will say though, this is a fairly massive buff to the Relic Contemptor, if it gets it. Heavy 6 at S6 with MWs on 6s? Yes please.

Anyone else want to bet Kheres patten assault cannons stay At 7?

As for custodes going to Toughness 6, if the rules are anywhere near similar IG gunlines just got much less scary.

I dunno, the new USR keyword on weapons leaves me interested to find out what has what. If tau or Nids can suddenly field cheap units with Dev Wounds, or IG infantry squads have quick access to it in the form of say, krak grenade launcher, it changes the game up a LOT. What good is a 2+4++ if your opponent can field chaff with MW weapons? I don't want to even guess at what Custodes will look like until we see the base weapons for most races shake out.

If suddenly HBs (which fire a more powerful round than an assault Cannon) get DW 2/3 it's gonna get ugly fast, and it's off to the races.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
But it's already badly implemented. An Assault Cannon does devestating wounds, but a Tau Railgun head shot doesn't?

Have we seen the Tau railgun profile? Do we know it won't?

It’s also reminiscent of Rending-something Assault Cannons had, and Heavy Bolters did not.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Marines are still T4, Bolters are S4 power fist are still S8

Given that they've moved vehicles further from infantry they may be taking advantage of the greater room allowed for infantry as well. Since T6 isn't a light vehicle anymore they could make T6 superheavy infantry like Custodes, Death Guard Terminators, things along those lines.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It’s also reminiscent of Rending-something Assault Cannons had, and Heavy Bolters did not.

Devastating Wounds definitely feels like a much more reasonable version of Rending.

 tuebor wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Marines are still T4, Bolters are S4 power fist are still S8

Given that they've moved vehicles further from infantry they may be taking advantage of the greater room allowed for infantry as well. Since T6 isn't a light vehicle anymore they could make T6 superheavy infantry like Custodes, Death Guard Terminators, things along those lines.

We know regular marines are T4 and Terminators are T5, would it not follow that Regular Custodes are T5 and Custodes Terminators are T6? This has been my guesstimate based on what we know so far.

It has always troubled me that Custodes terminators were just "+1 wound" in 8th and 9th edition, didn't seem like much of a difference.

I really don't think GW cares about balance when it comes to Custodes. It's clear they're one of the over-sight factions.There are so many Invuln piercing attacks now that Invulns are barely worth the cost, and S/T scores are irrelevant for basically the same reason. Either something does auto-wounds, or something puts out so much dakka as to be irrelevant. In some cases, (Infantry squads) both.

I highly doubt Custodes will get any significant changes in 9th, we are already an entire force of SM Captains basically.

I will fully accept the censure as a charletan if I'm wrong, but I think 9th are the last "great" changes you'll see for this faction. It's points updates and minor tweaks for the next rounds. We can't go up without breaking a lot of the game, and if we go down we are kinda worthless. We are perfectly boring, which is right where GW wants us. 50ish percent WR, and not majorly borked stuff.

Spartacus wrote:
We know regular marines are T4 and Terminators are T5, would it not follow that Regular Custodes are T5 and Custodes Terminators are T6? This has been my guesstimate based on what we know so far. It has always troubled me that Custodes terminators were just "+1 wound" in 8th and 9th edition, didn't seem like much of a difference.

Maybe. It'll depend on what the design philosophy looks like. I'm really hoping they make more room for infantry at the high end but they might not. They haven't shown us any infantry datasheets tougher than a Terminator but we may see some Tyranid ones next weekend when they have demo games at WarhammerFest, depending on what's in the starter box.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really don't think GW cares about balance when it comes to Custodes. It's clear they're one of the over-sight factions.There are so many Invuln piercing attacks now that Invulns are barely worth the cost, and S/T scores are irrelevant for basically the same reason. Either something does auto-wounds, or something puts out so much dakka as to be irrelevant. In some cases, (Infantry squads) both.

I highly doubt Custodes will get any significant changes in 9th, we are already an entire force of SM Captains basically.

I will fully accept the censure as a charletan if I'm wrong, but I think 9th are the last "great" changes you'll see for this faction. It's points updates and minor tweaks for the next rounds. We can't go up without breaking a lot of the game, and if we go down we are kinda worthless. We are perfectly boring, which is right where GW wants us. 50ish percent WR, and not majorly borked stuff.

Everything is getting large changes, simply because the main rules and design philosophy are changing significantly. Many things just won't work in the same way as before and a lot of things like WLTs, Relics and Strategems are getting consolidated andor trimmed down severely. Reduced overall AP is going to be great for us. Battleshock will pretty much never effect us and it's going to be tough on certain armies. Apart from that there's no real way to know since we've seen so little but mostly I'm interested in what their design philosophy regarding points will be but without the context of the full game and rules it wouldn't mean a ton right now anyway.

As for later, I think we'll get Sisters fleshed out a little in the next Codex. I say this because in 30k the Sisters got a pretty sick little army list with neat units that don't have models yet. I think we may get a new Sisters box with some of those extra weapons we don't have, the jetbikes and maybe a character box, all of which would be useful in both games. I really hope Sisters have some morale fuckery, like maybe a strat to just straight force a Battleshock test and reduce leadership within a certain range. I'd do bad things to good people at this point to get my hands on the Custodes index file.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really don't think GW cares about balance when it comes to Custodes. It's clear they're one of the over-sight factions.There are so many Invuln piercing attacks now that Invulns are barely worth the cost, and S/T scores are irrelevant for basically the same reason. Either something does auto-wounds, or something puts out so much dakka as to be irrelevant. In some cases, (Infantry squads) both.

I highly doubt Custodes will get any significant changes in 9th, we are already an entire force of SM Captains basically.

I will fully accept the censure as a charletan if I'm wrong, but I think 9th are the last "great" changes you'll see for this faction. It's points updates and minor tweaks for the next rounds. We can't go up without breaking a lot of the game, and if we go down we are kinda worthless. We are perfectly boring, which is right where GW wants us. 50ish percent WR, and not majorly borked stuff.

Well. Good thing we aren't interested in 9e changes now. 10e is around the corner and nobody knows custodian rules in 10e yet.

hi guys, Im running a version of jack harpsters infantry list these days and I love it.

its basically 5x3 sagittarum, 6termies, 3x5 flame girls and either 4 wardens or 2x3 shield guard. Optimal HQ with bike cap/trajan. I only own 10 sisters of silence, therefore I only run 2x5 and a solo allarus instead of the third.

The list obliterates marines and it dominates any t4 or less army, imo. When you have to go into vehicles you can do that with rendax and if needed the termies.

yesterday, though, I got smashed by the most unlikely foe. Orks. I just couldn't handle them. Every thing was t5 or better and because the list does lack speed, I couldn't reach his back field in any reasonable way.

We played a six objective mission with opposite deployments on the deep side (not broad. idk how to explain it better in English : ) So he just bits'ed for 15 in no time and green tide for a lot too. he move blocked my termie blob with a big car and all my shooting was wounding his guys on fours or 5s.The 2x6 beast snaggas where brutal at t6 in this regard.

when he fought, Everything beat me at s6+ in melee due to goffs charging so I had to transhuman all the time, burning cp like crazy.

Also, he warghed t2 and I could only screen 2 flanks (a third unit of sisters would have allowed me to screen the center better). So he was faster, stronger, tougher AND had better shooting as his rocket cars and defkoptas and rocket boos all deal flat 3. So every four I DIDNT roll was a dead custodian.

It was brutal. all the numbers were in his favor and he had 3 times as many guys.

so my question is: do you consider orks a super bad matchup with this list or am I just playing the list wrong into it?

also, any tips on how to play without the speed of bikes? how do you guys cope with the lack of speed with custodes sans bikes in general? I run aleya and some Silly teleport tech, but its hard to really use effectively.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
hi guys, Im running a version of jack harpsters infantry list these days and I love it.

its basically 5x3 sagittarum, 6termies, 3x5 flame girls and either 4 wardens or 2x3 shield guard. Optimal HQ with bike cap/trajan. I only own 10 sisters of silence, therefore I only run 2x5 and a solo allarus instead of the third.

The list obliterates marines and it dominates any t4 or less army, imo. When you have to go into vehicles you can do that with rendax and if needed the termies.

yesterday, though, I got smashed by the most unlikely foe. Orks. I just couldn't handle them. Every thing was t5 or better and because the list does lack speed, I couldn't reach his back field in any reasonable way.

We played a six objective mission with opposite deployments on the deep side (not broad. idk how to explain it better in English : ) So he just bits'ed for 15 in no time and green tide for a lot too. he move blocked my termie blob with a big car and all my shooting was wounding his guys on fours or 5s.The 2x6 beast snaggas where brutal at t6 in this regard.

when he fought, Everything beat me at s6+ in melee due to goffs charging so I had to transhuman all the time, burning cp like crazy.

Also, he warghed t2 and I could only screen 2 flanks (a third unit of sisters would have allowed me to screen the center better). So he was faster, stronger, tougher AND had better shooting as his rocket cars and defkoptas and rocket boos all deal flat 3. So every four I DIDNT roll was a dead custodian.

It was brutal. all the numbers were in his favor and he had 3 times as many guys.

so my question is: do you consider orks a super bad matchup with this list or am I just playing the list wrong into it?

also, any tips on how to play without the speed of bikes? how do you guys cope with the lack of speed with custodes sans bikes in general? I run aleya and some Silly teleport tech, but its hard to really use effectively.

orks are roughly balanced vs custodes meaning the mission, the lists and the players matter a great deal. Flat 3 is a bad day for custodes for sure.

good ork lists are going to score fast early because they tend to get tabled if they dont break your back. You are right that you dont have speed in your list at all, letting him dictate the engagements. For what its worth it sounds like his list is tailored more to kill custodes - vehicle heavy ork lists do very poorly against the rest of the field. hogs aside ork melee bounces off custodes - choppas are worthless.

6 obj matches are tough for custodes too, less so for orks. leverage your obsec that orks will be lacking, put the flamers out front and use the +1S strat.

Hello golden fam.

I have an event coming up mid june and I'm thinking about the following list but would love the feedback of you fine folk.

Shield guard camp. Bikes clear and claim objectives, removing hard targets at range and charging objective holding units. Solo Allarus does what they do best.

terennNash wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:
hi guys, Im running a version of jack harpsters infantry list these days and I love it.

its basically 5x3 sagittarum, 6termies, 3x5 flame girls and either 4 wardens or 2x3 shield guard. Optimal HQ with bike cap/trajan. I only own 10 sisters of silence, therefore I only run 2x5 and a solo allarus instead of the third.

The list obliterates marines and it dominates any t4 or less army, imo. When you have to go into vehicles you can do that with rendax and if needed the termies.

yesterday, though, I got smashed by the most unlikely foe. Orks. I just couldn't handle them. Every thing was t5 or better and because the list does lack speed, I couldn't reach his back field in any reasonable way.

We played a six objective mission with opposite deployments on the deep side (not broad. idk how to explain it better in English : ) So he just bits'ed for 15 in no time and green tide for a lot too. he move blocked my termie blob with a big car and all my shooting was wounding his guys on fours or 5s.The 2x6 beast snaggas where brutal at t6 in this regard.

when he fought, Everything beat me at s6+ in melee due to goffs charging so I had to transhuman all the time, burning cp like crazy.

Also, he warghed t2 and I could only screen 2 flanks (a third unit of sisters would have allowed me to screen the center better). So he was faster, stronger, tougher AND had better shooting as his rocket cars and defkoptas and rocket boos all deal flat 3. So every four I DIDNT roll was a dead custodian.

It was brutal. all the numbers were in his favor and he had 3 times as many guys.

so my question is: do you consider orks a super bad matchup with this list or am I just playing the list wrong into it?

also, any tips on how to play without the speed of bikes? how do you guys cope with the lack of speed with custodes sans bikes in general? I run aleya and some Silly teleport tech, but its hard to really use effectively.

orks are roughly balanced vs custodes meaning the mission, the lists and the players matter a great deal. Flat 3 is a bad day for custodes for sure.

good ork lists are going to score fast early because they tend to get tabled if they dont break your back. You are right that you dont have speed in your list at all, letting him dictate the engagements. For what its worth it sounds like his list is tailored more to kill custodes - vehicle heavy ork lists do very poorly against the rest of the field. hogs aside ork melee bounces off custodes - choppas are worthless.

6 obj matches are tough for custodes too, less so for orks. leverage your obsec that orks will be lacking, put the flamers out front and use the +1S strat.

Yeah, thats a great break down. Thanks.

You actually touch on a lot of my thoughts after the match.

His list was something like 3x10 grots to do actions, 2x5 commandoes, 2x6 beast snagga riders, 2x10 nobs, a battle wagon to ram up through the middle and unleash nobs, 5war bikers, 2 rocket cars, 5 koptas, 2 mekguns, 2 dino riding bosses, a truk with 10 truk bois with flamers (these seemed potent into chaff units bur didnt do a lot into chads) and some other units.

I put the witch seekers front to block the waargh and flame some stuff. they took out a blob before dying and gave me another turn to maneuver.

the 12 beast snagga riders were a threat all game but I actually shot most of them before the got in for real. couldn't stop all of them and 4 I think plus a dino rider boss got in t3 or 4. They easily killed 4 wardens. At that point he was ahead on primary and I couldn't win, so it didn't matter much. point is that I was probably right in fearing them and focusing them down. still, I didn't manage to deal with all the waves. and he scored like crazy.

since that matchup, I did modify my list to go only 4x3 sagittarum, 2x3 shield guards, 3x5 witchseekers instead of 4xwardens and 5 sagittarum squads. this helps a lot. haven't tried the ork rematch, though, but i tore through a strong necrons list yesterdays. The saggitarum firepower is just so good if you go into anything else than dam-1. preferably t5 or less, but 2 turns of rendex can often mitigate this. the silent king, for example, had to play very convoluted as those saggitarum can kill him pretty reliably in one turn if he gets aggressive.

I still fell the list has potential. It plays the mission slightly better than bike heavy lists, but you lack what they bring: anti tank and speed. I feel this build plays better into most stuff than the dreadnaught build. The 3 2 or x10 wardens is probably the best archetype right now, but I dont really like that play style. I score badly with such an army.

Whats the trick to scoring effectively with the warden build?










Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Hello golden fam.

I have an event coming up mid june and I'm thinking about the following list but would love the feedback of you fine folk.

Shield guard camp. Bikes clear and claim objectives, removing hard targets at range and charging objective holding units. Solo Allarus does what they do best.

Spoiler:

++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [97 PL, , 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Fast Attack

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Shadowkeepers

Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Heroic Support [-1CP]: Vertus

Stratagem: Open the Vaults [-1CP]: Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -3CP, 185pts]: (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, 3. Superior Creation, 5. Radiant Mantle, Ceaseless Hunter, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Warlord

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -1CP, 180pts]: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, Auric Aquilas, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Tip of the Spear

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 60pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear & Misericordia

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 425pts]
. 5x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 5x Interceptor Lance, 5x Misericordia, 5x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 425pts]
. 5x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 5x Interceptor Lance, 5x Misericordia, 5x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [20 PL, 425pts]
. 5x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 5x Interceptor Lance, 5x Misericordia, 5x Salvo Launcher

++ Total: [97 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I like the idea. its like a fast, Killy and much more frail version of the warden archetype.

I havent played 3x5 but I've played a lot of 2x5 and I find them very strong as a hammer type element.

With Bobby G going to T9, I can now say I have zero idea what GW plan to do with the non-SM forces units.

I have long held the belief that GW bases the game primarily off the base stats of the Astartes. If their leader is T9, with a 3+ resurrect at 6W, I have no idea how you can balance the other units in the game? What does Mortarian become? T10? Belakor? A basic Custodian Guard? I have no idea. But if we are making the leader of the base faction the equivalent of a walking melee heavy tank, I shudder to think what you make some of the bigger fish in the pond....

Heavy tanks are moving around with t12+ these days.

I thought the Rogal Dorn was T9? Did that change?

Have you not been looking at the update articles?

Land Raiders in 10th will be T12.
Stompas are T14.
Rhinos and Carnifexes, T9.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I thought the Rogal Dorn was T9? Did that change?

In 9e yes. In 10e no.

Surely you aren't comparing 10e guillimann rules to 9e tank rules?

Stats change. 10e stompa is running around t14.

Don't look at 10e guilliman, compare to 9e tanks and decide guilliman is equal t without checking how tanks change...surely you didn't think tanks don't change? Especially when they told weeks ago that they change...

Okay, so I have been playing full infantry builds for a few weeks now. Its harpsters build with 4x sag guard, 2x shield guard, 6 allarus, 2x5 witch seekers, a solo allarus (as I dont have the third witchseeker squad), alleya, Trajan, bike cap. It plays off of Emperors Chosen and is very flexible. a true toolbox between the amalgam strat, the option to do a two turn rendax, the witchseeker strat shenans, teleport abuse and a lot of bodies you can really find a lot of answers with this list.

it lacks mobility, though, and a bit of punch into t5 or better (especially better). The bikes solve both those problems, so I cam up with this:




I haven't bought relics and traits for the bike cap here but its basically meant to be the standard build with Unstoppable destroyer, auric exemplar and maybe castellans mark.

this runs 2x4 bikes. I could run 3x3 as well. its a bit more efficient with the rerolls, but I feel 2x4 is maybe better.

any suggestions or comments?

Anyone playing dreds these days? What's that like for you?

Custodes Faction focus
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-adeptus-custodes/

Got T6 and terminators at 7, am curious to see if that means the boats go up to 8 or are given same 7 as the termies.

Very happy with the previews.
D3 axes 👍
Simple and useful katahs 👍
t7 terminators 👍
assault bolters 👍

Faction focus looks good. Karate is now less clunky and actually flexible. Did not expect T7 terminators, but I definitely won't complain. Trajann is a beast, as he should be.

The strat seems a bit too strong for 1cp...dunno maybe it's fine because you can only use it once on the same unit.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Very happy with the previews.
D3 axes 👍

Which isn't actually an advantage

They strike less often AND have less attacks. Mathematically it's not fulfilling that role a D3 weapon should.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Very happy with the previews.
D3 axes 👍

Which isn't actually an advantage

They strike less often AND have less attacks. Mathematically it's not fulfilling that role a D3 weapon should.

Yes, the axes are a bit awkward. The spears come out ahead or do the same dmg as the axes in almost all cases.

Tiberias wrote:
Faction focus looks good. Karate is now less clunky and actually flexible. Did not expect T7 terminators, but I definitely won't complain. Trajann is a beast, as he should be.

The strat seems a bit too strong for 1cp...dunno maybe it's fine because you can only use it once on the same unit.

Yeah I'm really happy they made the Karate simplified and quite flexible to use. The Toughness boost was also a nice surprise. I don't think the Strat will be too powerful, and I think it helps us a lot given our limited number of units and how a bad roll of Saves can really mess things up a bit. We'll see once the points come out but I'm thinking we'll see substantial price hikes on most of our units.

Oh, this may have been answered before but are we going to see our FW units in the Index at launch or at a later date? The Achilles is my favorite model in the range and I'd hate to run an army without one.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Very happy with the previews.
D3 axes 👍

Which isn't actually an advantage

They strike less often AND have less attacks. Mathematically it's not fulfilling that role a D3 weapon should.

I've seen the math too. But, if the -1d buffs come back, the axe will have a place in our army.

Not gonna lie, Not happy with the Axes. Spears are just flat out better now, especially with the stances. Axes are just overkill for stuff we shouldn't be attacking in Melee.

Gonna keep my terminators with spears, hope that bikes get a buff to lances, or melta missiles don't get nerfed too badly, and throw my sisters in the ebay bin.

I don't care what they price sisters at, they seem so completely meh to me now. Odd that 10th wants to do away with all "auras" when that is specifically what Pariahs are. The new gimmick with dealing mortals to Psykers is just that. Gimmicky. Not enough to make me want to play them in tenth.

Apologies for the negativity, but this all just looks crappy. +1 to T and Wounds is great, but everything and their baby sister now can throw mortals without really trying, so T is really just irrelevant now. Especially against anti-infantry keyword weapons.

Also they did Trajann dirty with his new stat-line. He should be baseline at least an Abbadon, he's really just a Terminator Chapter Master now.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not gonna lie, Not happy with the Axes. Spears are just flat out better now, especially with the stances. Axes are just overkill for stuff we shouldn't be attacking in Melee.

Gonna keep my terminators with spears, hope that bikes get a buff to lances, or melta missiles don't get nerfed too badly, and throw my sisters in the ebay bin.

I don't care what they price sisters at, they seem so completely meh to me now. Odd that 10th wants to do away with all "auras" when that is specifically what Pariahs are. The new gimmick with dealing mortals to Psykers is just that. Gimmicky. Not enough to make me want to play them in tenth.

Apologies for the negativity, but this all just looks crappy. +1 to T and Wounds is great, but everything and their baby sister now can throw mortals without really trying, so T is really just irrelevant now. Especially against anti-infantry keyword weapons.

Also they did Trajann dirty with his new stat-line. He should be baseline at least an Abbadon, he's really just a Terminator Chapter Master now.

"This all looks crappy"....really? Trajann with his 10th ed profile slaps abaddon. If he gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle for double attacks, activate dacatarai stance and abaddon eats around 15 damage. If abaddon gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle to get a 2++ and likely tank anything thrown at him. Not to mention that he is a potent force multiplier for any unit he joins.....so yeah, old man Valoris is looking mighty fine. Oh, and he is T6 compared to abaddons T5....

Allarus look great also. They are going to be pain to deal with for most units, especially in melee with the new karate stances.

The only weird thing about our faction focus are the axes because the math doesn't check out like you said, they don't really have a purpose.

Even sisters don't look terrible to me because we've not seen what Vigilators and Witchseekers do.

The revealed stratagem is very powerful also.

So far there is honestly nothing to complain about our faction focus aside from the rather strange statline of the axes.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not gonna lie, Not happy with the Axes. Spears are just flat out better now, especially with the stances. Axes are just overkill for stuff we shouldn't be attacking in Melee.

Gonna keep my terminators with spears, hope that bikes get a buff to lances, or melta missiles don't get nerfed too badly, and throw my sisters in the ebay bin.

I don't care what they price sisters at, they seem so completely meh to me now. Odd that 10th wants to do away with all "auras" when that is specifically what Pariahs are. The new gimmick with dealing mortals to Psykers is just that. Gimmicky. Not enough to make me want to play them in tenth.

Apologies for the negativity, but this all just looks crappy. +1 to T and Wounds is great, but everything and their baby sister now can throw mortals without really trying, so T is really just irrelevant now. Especially against anti-infantry keyword weapons.

Also they did Trajann dirty with his new stat-line. He should be baseline at least an Abbadon, he's really just a Terminator Chapter Master now.

"This all looks crappy"....really? Trajann with his 10th ed profile slaps abaddon. If he gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle for double attacks, activate dacatarai stance and abaddon eats around 15 damage. If abaddon gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle to get a 2++ and likely tank anything thrown at him. Not to mention that he is a potent force multiplier for any unit he joins.....so yeah, old man Valoris is looking mighty fine. Oh, and he is T6 compared to abaddons T5....

Allarus look great also. They are going to be pain to deal with for most units, especially in melee with the new karate stances.

The only weird thing about our faction focus are the axes because the math doesn't check out like you said, they don't really have a purpose.

Even sisters don't look terrible to me because we've not seen what Vigilators and Witchseekers do.

The revealed stratagem is very powerful also.

So far there is honestly nothing to complain about our faction focus aside from the rather strange statline of the axes.

It's Fezzik, he isn't happy unless he's miserable. No matter how good the Custodes rules were, he was going to go full doom and gloom about them.

Personally I was actually thinking of selling my Custodes, or trading them for Grey Knights or something, but now I'm seriously reconsidering. Obviously I'll wait until the edition is actually out and we can see everything, but I'm cautiously optimistic that Custodes will actually be solid and I'll have a reason to finish building a full army of them.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Not gonna lie, Not happy with the Axes. Spears are just flat out better now, especially with the stances. Axes are just overkill for stuff we shouldn't be attacking in Melee.

Gonna keep my terminators with spears, hope that bikes get a buff to lances, or melta missiles don't get nerfed too badly, and throw my sisters in the ebay bin.

I don't care what they price sisters at, they seem so completely meh to me now. Odd that 10th wants to do away with all "auras" when that is specifically what Pariahs are. The new gimmick with dealing mortals to Psykers is just that. Gimmicky. Not enough to make me want to play them in tenth.

Apologies for the negativity, but this all just looks crappy. +1 to T and Wounds is great, but everything and their baby sister now can throw mortals without really trying, so T is really just irrelevant now. Especially against anti-infantry keyword weapons.

Also they did Trajann dirty with his new stat-line. He should be baseline at least an Abbadon, he's really just a Terminator Chapter Master now.

"This all looks crappy"....really? Trajann with his 10th ed profile slaps abaddon. If he gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle for double attacks, activate dacatarai stance and abaddon eats around 15 damage. If abaddon gets the charge he can pop the moment shackle to get a 2++ and likely tank anything thrown at him. Not to mention that he is a potent force multiplier for any unit he joins.....so yeah, old man Valoris is looking mighty fine. Oh, and he is T6 compared to abaddons T5....

Allarus look great also. They are going to be pain to deal with for most units, especially in melee with the new karate stances.

The only weird thing about our faction focus are the axes because the math doesn't check out like you said, they don't really have a purpose.

Even sisters don't look terrible to me because we've not seen what Vigilators and Witchseekers do.

The revealed stratagem is very powerful also.

So far there is honestly nothing to complain about our faction focus aside from the rather strange statline of the axes.

I mostly agree but when it comes to SoS I would take a few units of SoS in a casual game because i like them. Since they lost the immunity to psychic abilities I don't really see a reason to take them in a tournament list maybe for holding backfield objectives or as a screen It depends on the missions.

Same here, it's very disappointing the SoS lost their iconic ability. Depending on how the points shake out Prosecutors may see some use on backfield objectives but I suspect Sagittarum will still be more commonly chosen.

I like the abilities added to Wardens, Guard and Jetbikes, Shields appear a bit meh.

Would have been cool if Blade Champion kept the can't be hit on melee on a 1/2/3 then gave it to a squad. Probably too powerful though.

Shield thing affects me less since I typically just did one for tanking, but it does suck for anyone liking bigger blocks of shields.

Pretty darn good if you face dam3 weapons. Basically halves efficiency

Oh boy.... if i look at the deathwing knights i feel just sad.
If we dont get fight first or something space marines will butcher us with their melee units. They can move, advance and still charge.... and the big bad boys will always have fight first because of the judiciar.

Blade Champion lost it, so options will be Trajan for shackles or perhaps a fight first stratagem.

Doesn't look terrible, but is seems we are still awful against - 1 dmg even with the new axes.

Blade champion not retaining any of his unique combat tricks is kinda lame....

Don't know how facing space marine death star units with a judiciary in them is going to work....fight first seems like the most powerful ability to have in the fight phase in 10th.

Edit: speaking of fight first. I honestly do not understand how elite combat focused armies like custodes are ever going to deal with the lion? How's that even supposed to work?

Maybe we can get fight first from shield captains on foot, would be cool haha but i dont think so.

At first i was not very happy with all the changes but now that i thought about it i realised that the guardians got buffed a lot they got +2 attacks and wound reroll and deep strike the only lost -1AP but everybody did and with 5 attacks the damage from the sentinel blade is only decreased by 16% not half as one might think at first glance.

But bikes still look bad.

Holy cow, bikes actually lost a Wound, and same T as infantry - didn't see that coming. Mine will continue collecting dust probably.

Infantry looks great on the other hand! Ill reserve judgement on shield-boys until we see the strats etc, but Warden bombs will still almost certainly remain the go-to I think. Now with attached characters, and deepstrike+rapid ingress as an option!

Whelp, that's a good way to fix the bike list problem. Make AT shooting suck, and force everyone back to HBs. Make the spear no different than infantry spears, and give them a bombardment gimmick. These better not be 90ppm. I think Wardens look fun, but hardly shaking the walls with their awesomeness. I still say the axe nerf is gonna haunt us this edition. We've basically lost all non vehicle based AT weaponry.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Whelp, that's a good way to fix the bike list problem. Make AT shooting suck, and force everyone back to HBs. Make the spear no different than infantry spears, and give them a bombardment gimmick. These better not be 90ppm. I think Wardens look fun, but hardly shaking the walls with their awesomeness. I still say the axe nerf is gonna haunt us this edition. We've basically lost all non vehicle based AT weaponry.

As I stated before, GW didn't have to take away an attack AND take away WS as well. One or the other would've been fine.

Spartacus wrote:
Holy cow, bikes actually lost a Wound, and same T as infantry - didn't see that coming. Mine will continue collecting dust probably.

Infantry looks great on the other hand! Ill reserve judgement on shield-boys until we see the strats etc, but Warden bombs will still almost certainly remain the go-to I think. Now with attached characters, and deepstrike+rapid ingress as an option!

In addition to deepstrike+rapid ingress the venerable land raider plus assault ramp may be viable. Well, as long as it's given reasonable points for once.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Spartacus wrote:
Holy cow, bikes actually lost a Wound, and same T as infantry - didn't see that coming. Mine will continue collecting dust probably.

Infantry looks great on the other hand! Ill reserve judgement on shield-boys until we see the strats etc, but Warden bombs will still almost certainly remain the go-to I think. Now with attached characters, and deepstrike+rapid ingress as an option!

In addition to deepstrike+rapid ingress the venerable land raider plus assault ramp may be viable. Well, as long as it's given reasonable points for once.

I, for one, would LOVE to see Custodes Land Raiders be viable. I have two I never use. Wait, isn't there a strat now to teleport a unit? Can that be used on a LR?

A teleporting LR would be hilarious, it's worth a try just for the fun of it. But yeah hopefully they are cost efficient for once.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
A teleporting LR would be hilarious, it's worth a try just for the fun of it. But yeah hopefully they are cost efficient for once.

I mean LR teleport followed by disgorging a squad might actually be fun.

I'm of the opinion that the extra wound from the shield isn't going to make up for the damage loss of the spear. Shield is 33% more tanky against D1, 0% more tanky against D2, 2x as tanky against d3 and 0% more tanky against d3+. D3 weapons are rare and we're already pretty resistant to D1, while D2 and d3+ are not uncommon. That said, MW's seem like they're going to be big this edition and the shield will help with that.
Vehicles have always been a problem for us that only bikes could reliably solve and that reliability has been reduced. I think we're going to see more melta dreds and perhaps the return of the calladius and the telemon.
I also suspect these are holes that aim to be plugged when we get our codex. I'm also wondering if plans to address this will include more weapon options for our terminators and dreds. If I'm being really optimistic, following the trend of HH kits going to plastic, we'll get the same for our dreds.

Index is up.

Stratagems look good, Shield Captains look quite good also. The standard shield Captain might really be worth taking no, since the katas are quite good. Bike Captain is still a boss, the once per game ability is very powerful.

Valerian is op now imo, giving the unit he leads armor of contempt is ridiculous in the new system.

It looks strong.

No CP generator in the army but each captain with an ability to use a 0 CP stratagem per battle round.

Considering the wording, can you confirm me that we can used the specific CP ability of 2 captains in a same battle round or we have to choose which one will use it ?

Bit annoying that the DEFAULT loadout of the standard Vexilus Praetor (which has become just a Custodian Guard with Vexilla) is now illegal.

The order of the index is kind of funny, most of them have the HQ out front.

Unstoppable Destroyer on the Bike Captain looks potent.

Veiled Blade for Shadow Keepers is pretty neat with the 3x OC once per game.

Vigilators getting -1 Hit in Melee is nice. Aleya looks decent as well, and Valerian, well, those two might actually be good for once

Foot Captain is definitely worthwhile,

No firing deck on the Rhino, same as WE & 1k Sons.

Really want to see how our FW Dreads and Sagittarum shake out in the FW Index.

 thori wrote:
It looks strong.

No CP generator in the army but each captain with an ability to use a 0 CP stratagem per battle round.

Considering the wording, can you confirm me that we can used the specific CP ability of 2 captains in a same battle round or we have to choose which one will use it ?

It's one captain only. Same as every other.

Doesn't even matter what type of captain.

Aleya is missing the Anathema Psykana keyword. Wonder if that's intentional given how her and Valerian used to be a joint unit. Also, I think SoS can go inside Land Raiders now. Aleya + Vigilators in a Landraider rolling up on a Psyker unit will be pretty formidable, even against Magnus, Mortarion or the Chaos Knight Psyker.

The one special character is the only custodes infantry without deep strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The one special character is the only custodes infantry without deep strike.

Obviously just 1 game and they aren't likely playing meanest lists but tabletop titans custodians(no fw units) just ran over tank ig.

My prediction failed badly. Lol

tneva82 wrote:
Obviously just 1 game and they aren't likely playing meanest lists but tabletop titans custodians(no fw units) just ran over tank ig.

My prediction failed badly. Lol

Were they still using lots of Jetbikes or something else to mulch the IG? I'm curious how they took out the vehicles

I really hope, from the bottom of my heart, that the kharon pattern acquisitor has the assault special rule. The waiting is killing me!

So.... I was thinking about getting back into 40k with the new edition and dusting off all my old Custodes....

And I heard that all FW units had been binned? Considering that was like 90% of my army that is likely going to my me say feth it and sell them.

Is it me or the Quicksilver Execution rule from the Vertus Praetors is very good? It does more than 16 mortal wounds against a 10-model unit.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Is it me or the Quicksilver Execution rule from the Vertus Praetors is very good? It does more than 16 mortal wounds against a 10-model unit.

It's 2 mortals by bike not by ennemy if I understand.

Oh I took ''this unit'' to mean the enemy unit just mentioned, but you're probably right.
So it's 10 mortal wounds for 6 Vertus.
Not very good since you won't charge and fight.

This=datasheet unit. That=other unit.

For once gw been consistent on wording for years.

Deleted

Khadorstompy wrote:
So.... I was thinking about getting back into 40k with the new edition and dusting off all my old Custodes....

And I heard that all FW units had been binned? Considering that was like 90% of my army that is likely going to my me say feth it and sell them.

that might be true for other armies but GW explicitly said that custodes FW stuff is not getting binned.

Why would they say that? They know the only things really keeping us alive right now at all are the giant golden Stompa and our Golden Warglaives, I mean Contemptors.

I fully expect the GW to do some legends crap to all the non plastic kits though. Maybe not soon but in the first year.

Khadorstompy wrote:
And I heard that all FW units had been binned?

A lot of people have that misconception because certain Horus Heresy units for Marines of both flavor were removed from the game. Since they're the only FW stuff Marine players use they just extrapolate that all of them are gone without finishing the article about it.

 tuebor wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
And I heard that all FW units had been binned?

A lot of people have that misconception because certain Horus Heresy units for Marines of both flavor were removed from the game. Since they're the only FW stuff Marine players use they just extrapolate that all of them are gone without finishing the article about it.

They also removed all the FW Chaos Daemons which were not from 30k which is why people may have heard that FW units in general are going away.

Here's the article for those who haven't read it, it specifically mentions that Custodes units from 30k are here to stay but there's no exact date yet on when we will see an Index for these. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/legions-and-legends-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-models-in-games-of-warhammer-40000/

So, what do you think is better?

2x shield captains and 1x blade champion
or
1x blade champion, 1x Trajan, 1x shield captain?

Running with 30 spears, vindicare and x points left to 2k.

Summary of points changes, quite a few were surprising.

Custodes
Foot Captain +15pts
Termie Captain +5pts
Bike Captain -15pts
Blade Champion -20pts
Valerian -15pts
Trajann -55pts

Guard Squad Spears +0pts
Guard Squad Shield x4 -20pts
Allarus +5pts
Contemptor +30pts
Venerable Land Raider -5pts
Jet Bikes +10-20pts

SoS
Aleya +5pts
Knight Centura +20pts
Prosecutors x5 -5pts
Vigilators & Witchseekers x5 +15pts

I don't think anyone is taking bikes at 90 points each? Literally twice as much as a footstodian?

Yeah without Assault it's either Shoot or Quicksilver. I think with Bike Captain they'll see play as a bodyguard unit, [Lance] at least lets us Wound very tough things in Melee without burning a CP.

The ability of the Captain on bike seems strong (moving once at the end of a fight phase). If you have the second turn, it’s like a 18’’ scout move before your turn. You basically move 30 inches with his unit, then charge.

tneva82 wrote:

 thori wrote:
It looks strong.

No CP generator in the army but each captain with an ability to use a 0 CP stratagem per battle round.

Considering the wording, can you confirm me that we can used the specific CP ability of 2 captains in a same battle round or we have to choose which one will use it ?

It's one captain only. Same as every other.

Doesn't even matter what type of captain.

Why couldn't you run cap, bike cap, termie cap?

Scoundrel80 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 thori wrote:
It looks strong.

No CP generator in the army but each captain with an ability to use a 0 CP stratagem per battle round.

Considering the wording, can you confirm me that we can used the specific CP ability of 2 captains in a same battle round or we have to choose which one will use it ?

It's one captain only. Same as every other.

Doesn't even matter what type of captain.

Why couldn't you run cap, bike cap, termie cap?

You can run such but still can use the ability only once per round, because the CP generator ability specifically states once per battle round you can select ONE model with that ability to use it. Running one of each cap just allows you the versatility of deciding which cap and attached unit to use it on each round.

Scoundrel80 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 thori wrote:
It looks strong.

No CP generator in the army but each captain with an ability to use a 0 CP stratagem per battle round.

Considering the wording, can you confirm me that we can used the specific CP ability of 2 captains in a same battle round or we have to choose which one will use it ?

It's one captain only. Same as every other.

Doesn't even matter what type of captain.

Why couldn't you run cap, bike cap, termie cap?

You can.but the rule name is same and as per rule text that ability has use limit.

If different captain's rule was different name you could use ability multiple times.

As is 1 only. Having multiple captains just gives flexibility where you want ability triggered each time

ah, okay. makes sense. same as with the farseers fate dice manipulation for eldar.

Hype = dead.

Typical GW fething something up before it’s even come out. Lost all faith in this company, if it wasn’t for the cool lore and amazing models, I would’ve stopped playing long ago.

Also who’s bloody idea was it to turn the Vexilla into the most boring generic bannerman possible. .

And who’s idea was it to stop you from taking 4 guards, or 5 wardens. Jesus christ, just charge points by the model not these weird made up increments

nemesis464 wrote:
Hype = dead.

Typical GW fething something up before it’s even come out. Lost all faith in this company, if it wasn’t for the cool lore and amazing models, I would’ve stopped playing long ago.

Also who’s bloody idea was it to turn the Vexilla into the most boring generic bannerman possible. .

And who’s idea was it to stop you from taking 4 guards, or 5 wardens. Jesus christ, just charge points by the model not these weird made up increments

Um, you can take 4 guys in a unit of regular Custodian guard. The lack of a cost for 5 wardens is kind of strange considering they literally sell them in boxes of 5, but then they sell Plague Marines in boxes of 7 and the unit sizes are 5 and 10 so

 ZergSmasher wrote:

nemesis464 wrote:
Hype = dead.

Typical GW fething something up before it’s even come out. Lost all faith in this company, if it wasn’t for the cool lore and amazing models, I would’ve stopped playing long ago.

Also who’s bloody idea was it to turn the Vexilla into the most boring generic bannerman possible. .

And who’s idea was it to stop you from taking 4 guards, or 5 wardens. Jesus christ, just charge points by the model not these weird made up increments

Um, you can take 4 guys in a unit of regular Custodian guard. The lack of a cost for 5 wardens is kind of strange considering they literally sell them in boxes of 5, but then they sell Plague Marines in boxes of 7 and the unit sizes are 5 and 10 so

Sorry that was a typo, but it’s ridiculous you can’t take units of 3, 6, 7, 8 guard yet they’ll let you take 9 for some unknown reason.

Also not being able to take 4 or 5 wardens, 4 allarus, or 4 bikes (but they’ll let you take 2??)

The whole thing is just arbitrary nonsense

So can I confirm, all shield squads are just dead, like worst possible option now?
Spears are pretty much better than Axes in 75% of the applications?
Swords are fairly worthless, Miseracordia is worthless (Free but who cares)
and Bikes are potentially our weakest unit for the cost?

You have to pay extra for the storm cannons on the telemon, but not extra for fists? You also don't pay extra for the storm cannon variant of the tanks?

The new twin-linked rule really kills a lot of units. LRs might be a viable option as AT if they didn't have twin linked. I want to theory craft using a bunch of Contemptors with the Ares cannons to see if they do more or less wounds against T10+ units than the Melta.

where did you find costs for Telemon ?

another topic: in this game where CP are key, do you think that Inquisitor Coteaz capacity Spy Network is maybe a must have, good stats, and around 3 4 CP during game. No ?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So can I confirm, all shield squads are just dead, like worst possible option now?
Spears are pretty much better than Axes in 75% of the applications?
Swords are fairly worthless, Miseracordia is worthless (Free but who cares)
and Bikes are potentially our weakest unit for the cost?

You have to pay extra for the storm cannons on the telemon, but not extra for fists? You also don't pay extra for the storm cannon variant of the tanks?

The new twin-linked rule really kills a lot of units. LRs might be a viable option as AT if they didn't have twin linked. I want to theory craft using a bunch of Contemptors with the Ares cannons to see if they do more or less wounds against T10+ units than the Melta.

I'd also like to know where you found the points for a telemon. And with the shift away from points for wargear, why would storm cannons cost more?

Mad_Proctologist wrote:


I'd also like to know where you found the points for a telemon. And with the shift away from points for wargear, why would storm cannons cost more?

Some people have difficulty abstracting hypothetical circumstances. The points have not yet changed for Telemons in 10th therefore there is no reason to think they will for someone who can't abstract, even though everything else has moved to a single points cost for all loadouts.

------------------------------

I played a 1500 game vs a fairly mediocre SM list the other day and my experiences basically match those we are seeing in batreps online, aside from one: 5 or 6 Allarus with a SC are absolutely bonkers and are a must include for me. I would much rather take them than a basic Custodian Guard squad. The blast shooting along with reroll vs characters and their bodyguard unit is absolutely monstrous, as pretty much anything important you will face will have the CHARACTER, MONSTER OR VEHICLE keyword.

Not sure what it tells in long run but interesting finale.

edit: spoilers in case somebody hasn't watched tabletop titans games or even playlist(seeing winners of previous games can be figured out from who are playing later)

Thanks for not spoiling - also watching the finale now too haha.

Im prepping my Land Raider for spraying gold at the moment. Spartan looks cool as a proxy but its so wide, looks like it keeps getting stuck!

Sorry. Figured it's pretty obvious who won earlier up since only winners advance so basically just looking up title of newest video shows who won earlier.

No idea who won with custodes vs csm as there's no affect on future videos(which don't even exist yet).

I am very disappointed, check this out:

"What you won’t find in this download are units from the Adeptus Custodes and Knight Households. You can find their rules in the associated Imperial Armour compendiums, which will be released in the near future".

I was waiting for the fw rules to play my expensive models and I don't know for how long I'll be waiting.

Very disappointing. I don't mind that it's not right away (although, why not?), but something like ''will be released next month'' would have been appreciated.

Spado wrote:
I am very disappointed, check this out:

"What you won’t find in this download are units from the Adeptus Custodes and Knight Households. You can find their rules in the associated Imperial Armour compendiums, which will be released in the near future".

I was waiting for the fw rules to play my expensive models and I don't know for how long I'll be waiting.

Spado wrote:
I am very disappointed, check this out:

"What you won’t find in this download are units from the Adeptus Custodes and Knight Households. You can find their rules in the associated Imperial Armour compendiums, which will be released in the near future".

I was waiting for the fw rules to play my expensive models and I don't know for how long I'll be waiting.

canhammer discord got you covered
from the app. Custodes FW weapons but with no infoon special rules:

Oh good looks like they bumped up the Adrathic's to match the increased Toughness on Terminators and Gravis, I'm really happy to see that.

The Achillus Dreadspear went from S14 to S12, that's very disappointing, it would have made the Achillus a fantastic can opener.

Sags are better heavy intercessors.
Achillus dred is still a can opener.
Galatus dred smashes with some solid reliability and that all-important d3.
With the right ppm venatari are going to see a lot of action.
Will calladius tanks finally find have their comeback? Only points will tell.

Sure its a can opener for a Leman Russ at S12, but had it kept S14 it would also be a can opener for a Bane Blade

We now have Forge World points-

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/14g0kdh

(Obligatory why the feth can take Vertus Praetors in different unit sizes but Agamatus are only 3 or 6)

And various special rules for them-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cmS_kNNfwzg&feature=youtu.be

Pretty disappointing. The Telemon fists do the same as a Redemptor, Aquilon Fists aren’t x2 strength, Venetari pistol/buckler got worse, Sagitarum just have generic heavy bolters now…

nemesis464 wrote:
(Obligatory why the feth can take Vertus Praetors in different unit sizes but Agamatus are only 3 or 6)

Its all based on what you can build in the box. The fact you can build either 3 Vertus or 2 Vertus and a Shield Cap with each Vertus Praetor box is the exact reason we only get the numbers 2,3,5, and 6 for unit sizes, because there is no way to have just 4 Vertus if you bought 1 or 2 boxes. Yet the numbers 2,3,5,6 provide for all permutations of either 3 vertus or 2 vertus + Shield Caps you can build (2 Shield Caps, +4 Vertus would be fielded as two units of 2 each with a SC) with those boxes. I am not defending this as a reasonable reason, but it is in fact precisely why GW went with those numbers. This does not however explain the 3 and 6 for Wardens, that one is a bit of a head scratcher (although I have a suspicion that possibly someone goofed and thought they came 3 to a box like Allarus instead of 5)

Sagittarum are squad size of 5 only, while our other troops (Guard & Prosecutors) are min squad 4. That's remarkably disappointing.