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Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 13:52:19


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Can anyone explain to me how Custodes don't have Bolter discipline yet? Also, on the Allarus Captain as the back field defender, you are sacrificing a great anti-character unit for a large portion of the game. What about a Flag in Terminator plate, with a neg 1 flag with the flamer, and a gatekeeper. Thats a pretty nasty surprise for anyone creeping through.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 14:40:44


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone explain to me how Custodes don't have Bolter discipline yet? Also, on the Allarus Captain as the back field defender, you are sacrificing a great anti-character unit for a large portion of the game. What about a Flag in Terminator plate, with a neg 1 flag with the flamer, and a gatekeeper. Thats a pretty nasty surprise for anyone creeping through.


Because our shooting is plenty good, especially considering the points drops we just got.

The Allarus Captain is played with the Praetorian Plate because you have the ability to teleport him very large distances over the board, preferably into your opponents half of backfield where they suddenly have to deal with a very tough obsec body, that can also threaten most any backfield units. Or you could teleport shut him back towards your home objective should it get threatened by a charge from deepstrike or something. The point is that this threat of flexibility and movement is quite simply worth a lot.

However the Allarus Captain is not a good character hunter in comparison even if you were to give him the lockwarden warlord trait because he neither has the high AP and high damage attacks the blade champion provides, nor does he have the maneuverability and consistency the bike captain can provide (Ceaseless Hunter/Tip of the Spear for the Bike captain).

Again, probably the overall best character hunter is a Shadowkeeper bike captain with Lockwarden and Ceaseless Hunter, because he is fast and even if the enemy tries to tarpit him, he can fall back and charge and thus actually reach his desired target. All the damage in the world won't help you if you can't get there. But he's going to struggle a lot against -1 dmg.
On the other hand a Lockwarden plus Peerless Warrior Blade Champion is going to provide the most raw and consistent damage against characters we have access to, the -4AP and dmg3 attacks can consistently cut through almost any character unit that isn't a lord of war or has wound caps like ghazgkull. In any case he'll hit way above his points cost against characters, but you have to get him there first.
Now of course if you don't plan on bringing either a bike captain or blade champion you could also give your Terminator Captain the Lockwarden trait and go character hunting, but I would argue that he won't fulfill that role as good as the other two options.

I personally haven't tried the gatekeeper, but it's nice little relic and I'd be curious to hear how it works for you.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 15:33:54


Post by: Thairne


That could work, but that requires more CP and even more points you cant spare. At 2000, yes, maybe. But in that case, just bring more "real" troops. Or other mobile stuff like bikes.

Granted, it could give you the ability to shunt Captain Yeetus down there and then back where you need him, but all in all, the Captain Yeetus is a great tool that can appear whereever you like. Do you WANT him in your backline? No. But he CAN shore up that weakness if you need him to.

Heck, currently I'm debating having trajann sit back there.He can regen CP, do his katah shift and fight twice if he needs to. At 1500 pts I find it difficult to have something worthwhile for his aura in the first place. Terms? Too far away. Bikes? Way to fast. Telemon/Vehicles? Not affected. Other dreads? Possible... But they're more lynchpins themselves than in need of buffing.
1500 is real low.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 18:17:39


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I've seen a couple people mention it in passing, but has anyone tried running significant numbers of Sagittarum? I know a few for the backfield has general wisdom, but they seem really strong with Misercordia giving them a proper melee profile. Has anyone tried say, four MSU squads?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 19:01:03


Post by: Thairne


sags are as they always were, pretty much nothing changed for them currently.
They aren't exactly breaking the meta, but a squad or two of them are fine.
Wouldn't go deeper personally because in the end you pay 53 pts for a heavy bolter most of the time.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 19:25:36


Post by: leerm02


I have a pretty fun list right now that is almost 100% forge world that uses 3 msu of sag as its troop component.

Haven't gotten to try it out yet, but it does seem rather promising to swarm with the saggitarum :-)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 19:46:54


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I'm still kinda upset that someone told me Sag's don't get the free Dagger now. I still say spears are better for MSU troops. Spears and Melta spears.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 19:49:07


Post by: iGuy91


Most of my lists are looking like this for troops

1 Custodian Guard Squad with a sword/spear combo of some kind.
1 Sag Guard squad to be fast and contribute from basically anywhere
2 Prosecutor squads to either hold safe backfield objectives, or screen smites.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 19:55:04


Post by: Thairne


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm still kinda upset that someone told me Sag's don't get the free Dagger now. I still say spears are better for MSU troops. Spears and Melta spears.


I mean is an upgrade from 3 S5 AP0 D1 attacks to 4 S5 AP-2 D1 attacks not worth 3 points?
Yes, yes it is and thats why its not free.
Annoying, but understandable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Most of my lists are looking like this for troops

1 Custodian Guard Squad with a sword/spear combo of some kind.
1 Sag Guard squad to be fast and contribute from basically anywhere
2 Prosecutor squads to either hold safe backfield objectives, or screen smites.


Dont discount our shield bois yet. If you run against melee, the -1 to hit strat can come in very handy.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/24 20:20:44


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 09:38:38


Post by: Darkseid


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.


The FW update can’t come soon enough. Hope they throw in some pleasant surprises.

Speaking of which; what is everyone’s opinion on the Melta Spears? They pay a premium but 3 meltas on Custodes (maybe with Chosen re-roll) is a reliable damage dealer.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 09:57:55


Post by: Tiberias


 Darkseid wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I also just noticed that the Andrastite and Melta spears still have a D3 Melee damage profile, lol.


The FW update can’t come soon enough. Hope they throw in some pleasant surprises.

Speaking of which; what is everyone’s opinion on the Melta Spears? They pay a premium but 3 meltas on Custodes (maybe with Chosen re-roll) is a reliable damage dealer.


Really depends on whether the melta spears do in fact count as Auric Weapons. I guess everyone is waiting for that information before making an assessment.
If they count as Auric Weapons they are potentially great, because then you have the ability to double shoot them with the Salvus Ka'tah.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 12:24:46


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


At 12 inches, you're never really gonna be able to get the +2 damage, even then at the cost, it's kinda pointless without full man squads. I'd rather take Anti-tank somewhere else. And the other spears either need to be assault 3, or have a better price, for a single shot heavy bolter.

I'd really like to see them turn the Andrastite spear into like a plasma pistol. S7/8 AP2/3 D2/3 pistol 2, 18". D3 MW user on 1s. At that profile it's not exactly useless, but it's less useless than it is now.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 13:39:17


Post by: leerm02


That would be cool, but regardless they need to do SOMETHING with it because right now... pretty much useless!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 13:54:57


Post by: Thairne


I had a little bit of a think and want to run an idea by you guys.
The old/new trouble of weak objective holders... At 1500 pts I think that still applies, but it opens up a bit if you go to 1750 and beyond.

Teleport Homer stratagem allows you to pick one Terminator unit basically re-deepstrike it within 3" of a vexila (or if you have the slot, Aleya) and 9" away from enemy models.
So if you have a vexila between your two home objectives, since you only need to be within 3" and not wholly within, you can stretch out your terminators a good bit more to get to that 9" mark (to about 7" if my calculations are correct).
That means that a vexila has effectively a 10" range where you can setup your terminators to reinforce the objective.
If that happens turn 3, you can drop in Turn 2, make the charge, clean up, teleport away, make the charge and clean up.
Likely? No. 9" charges are dangerous after all and work better with Solar Watch and Dreadhost than with the other Shield hosts, but it can almost certainly help you score on T4 again. Which is definately preferable to having something else abandon midfield and give up another objective.
The Vexila isnt a slouch either now that he can get a weapon for free and can join in on the fun.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 14:10:10


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
I had a little bit of a think and want to run an idea by you guys.
The old/new trouble of weak objective holders... At 1500 pts I think that still applies, but it opens up a bit if you go to 1750 and beyond.

Teleport Homer stratagem allows you to pick one Terminator unit basically re-deepstrike it within 3" of a vexila (or if you have the slot, Aleya) and 9" away from enemy models.
So if you have a vexila between your two home objectives, since you only need to be within 3" and not wholly within, you can stretch out your terminators a good bit more to get to that 9" mark (to about 7" if my calculations are correct).
That means that a vexila has effectively a 10" range where you can setup your terminators to reinforce the objective.
If that happens turn 3, you can drop in Turn 2, make the charge, clean up, teleport away, make the charge and clean up.
Likely? No. 9" charges are dangerous after all and work better with Solar Watch and Dreadhost than with the other Shield hosts, but it can almost certainly help you score on T4 again. Which is definately preferable to having something else abandon midfield and give up another objective.
The Vexila isnt a slouch either now that he can get a weapon for free and can join in on the fun.


I am not sure why you are that focused on your backfield objective, especially at 1500p. If your opponent diverts that much manpower to push a unit of sagittarium from your home objective (which is even more difficult to achieve should the sagg be in cover), you can just push forward and take their backfield objective. Your opponent likely won't be able to hold objectives in both their deployment zone and in your deployment zone, especially at 1500p.
Just continue working on taking the midfield, which is what you want to do with custodes anyway, and if you lose your backfield in the process, take theirs.

Diverting a lot of effort and a vexilla just to maybe save your backfield objective with a 9" terminator charge does not seem like a good plan honestly. Especially since your vexilla is a much better force multiplier when keeping him near your forces who are going to push for the midfield anyway.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 14:20:25


Post by: Thairne


well I'm not talking about protecting saggitarum, I'm talking about protecting a few prosecutors.
And the motivation behind is that I usually play vs space wolves.
And they put a LOT of pressure on you and are fast enough to flank around. I've had to fight in my home turf for pretty much every game while being unable to push through the middle, so if I can give my army more flexibility if I need it is not that bad of an idea.
Especially since you want to maneuvre in a way that makes him not get the charges as he wants too with tanglefoot, which means storming onto the midfield is not an option T1, maybe T2, since he'll just use that to charge into it and slingshot into the backfield. (plus the vexila can do that trick from the midfield too, he can be up to 19" away, though that means you kinda have to screen out the backfield DS)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 14:41:44


Post by: Salt donkey


Not sure why people are so against sisters of silence backfield holders. Just run 2 squads. 120 is still less than 135 a spear guardian squad would cost. 1 squad of sisters screens while the other holds, or you just put both squads on the objective if you’re worried about them getting killed at range.

Also, they are psychic defense in an army that lacks if otherwise. Emperors chosen helps, but I like having a way to attack my opponents buff powers as well and stopping mortals completely is better than just a 4+++.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 14:55:56


Post by: Audustum


Salt donkey wrote:
Not sure why people are so against sisters of silence backfield holders. Just run 2 squads. 120 is still less than 135 a spear guardian squad would cost. 1 squad of sisters screens while the other holds, or you just put both squads on the objective if you’re worried about them getting killed at range.

Also, they are psychic defense in an army that lacks if otherwise. Emperors chosen helps, but I like having a way to attack my opponents buff powers as well and stopping mortals completely is better than just a 4+++.


I'll say it again too: if your opponent is dedicating AP weaponry to shift the 2+ (in cover) Sisters bodies, you already have a small victory.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 15:07:54


Post by: Thairne


bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 15:31:38


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 15:42:49


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
well I'm not talking about protecting saggitarum, I'm talking about protecting a few prosecutors.
And the motivation behind is that I usually play vs space wolves.
And they put a LOT of pressure on you and are fast enough to flank around. I've had to fight in my home turf for pretty much every game while being unable to push through the middle, so if I can give my army more flexibility if I need it is not that bad of an idea.
Especially since you want to maneuvre in a way that makes him not get the charges as he wants too with tanglefoot, which means storming onto the midfield is not an option T1, maybe T2, since he'll just use that to charge into it and slingshot into the backfield. (plus the vexila can do that trick from the midfield too, he can be up to 19" away, though that means you kinda have to screen out the backfield DS)


Wait, how are your backfield objectives a problem against space wolves? How are they getting past your guys in the midfield, especially now when you can run shadowkeepers? I'm not trying to criticise you here, I just don't quite understand the actual problem.

If the space wolve player is hellbent on getting around your midfield guys to get to your backfield objective with prosecutors then....fine? They've now dedicated resources to move across the field to remove a 60p unit from an objective. That seems like a good trade for you.

Edit: also, with the new codex and especially when running shadowkeepers, you are going to be the one putting pressure on the space wolves player. Shadowkeepers particularly have amazing tools to make life hell for a space wolves army. Don't forget getting proper use out of the Dacatarai Kata to reduce his pile in and consolidate movement. When properly set up, it can be devastating against combat armies and neuter their melee potential significantly.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 16:04:22


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Space Wolves can still run terminators with Teleport, Assault Marines, and they still have their Dakkaboats that can "jump in from off map". That's what gets me about this whole stupid problem.

Everyone is trying to figure out how to possibly put the cheapest amount of points in the backfield, to protect a single objective out of all the other points scoring we need to be doing.

That's literally 5 out of 100 points. Meanwhile we can be scoring 10 points by controling two or more, AND more than the opponent. Stop sacrificing big points for small and easy points. Who cares if they take the backfield? My bikes are slaughtering their chaff, and might get assassinate on their warlord this turn. My Telemon is currently "spooning" their big T8 tank thing. My Troops are currently holding 3 of the objectives on the map. That's worth far more than the 5 points the opponent will score for devoting points, CP, and bodies, to a goal that I've already abandoned.

Forget the backfield, get out there and kill. This isn't Battlefield, you need to push up the map to win.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 17:41:15


Post by: Thairne


Ok, so it looks like I have the entirely wrong perspective on the game based on your replies.

So instead of fixating on "why defend the backfield objective" which I always considered to be the prime directive because I already own them, let me tell you what usually happens or what I'm generally up against.
I'm starting to feel like that's the actual error in my thinking.

What I'm usually up against consists of the following or some variation on it
1 Librarian
1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike
1 Primaris Captain
9 Bloodclaws
10 Grey Hunters
10 Intercessors
5 TWC /w thunderhammers&shields
5 Long Fangs with wolf Guard Terminator
3 Eradicators
3 Blade Guards
1 Rhino
1 Impulsor

now what usually happens is that he either very aggressively pushes up the middle with just some combat squad MSU on his backfield or goes balls to the walls if he goes second.
Rhino to block LOS for a backfield, TWC in the middle with 16" movement, Eradicators creating a "no go zone", T1 Drop Pod with 9 Blood Claws and Librarian and the Impulsor speeding up onto the mid field.
If I go first and go into the midfield, I invariably get charged. If he goes first, I'm not fast enough to do the same and get tackled one by one.
that basically means I cannot take the mid field at all, especially since I have 1 turn 1 Droppod assault with ~40 attacks coming which I cannot screen out.
The TWC are a special problem because of their speed, advance and charge and eventual rerolls. They are a tactical nuke I cannot stop and destroy whatever they touch, which already makes a hole in the line which an impulsor/bladeguard/the TWC can slip through. I cannot just "run up" because I get demolished, that is even without gak like the Armour of Russ or other Fights last which I barely have any access too.
I cannot push past him because he has numbers, alpha strike AND manveurability on his side. So if I dont defend my backfield, I will score 0 VP for the first 2 or 3 turns at which point I might as well concede.
This is why I got into the mindset that I need to hold what I have instead of getting outmaneuvered and slaughtered in melee.

Now, according to you, there is some very grave basic mistake I'm doing here, but I dont see it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.


Also I just dont get this.
He uses 95 pts to kill 60 pts, taking away 5 VP from me and possibly scoring 5 more for him. Even if I eradicate those 95 pts afterwards, he traded 35 pts for 5 VP.
That seems to be an EXCELLENT trade for him.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 17:53:13


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
bold of you to assume that shooting is the only threat
if I run against my Guard/SoB opponent, I'll be fine with prosecutors. No qualms there at all.

Against fast melee armies though, they are a liability. Or deep striking flamers like Pteraxii.


Flamers is still shooting and I'm more than happy for them to blow that on a Sisters squad.

Melee armies shouldn't make it past midfield. You're jamming most of your actual Custodes up there. A deep strike charge is your only outside concern. As I've said before, if they're trying to rush into your DZ, you just go into theirs and swap.


Also I ju[/i]st dont get this.
He uses 95 pts to kill 60 pts, taking away 5 VP from me and possibly scoring 5 more for him. Even if I eradicate those 95 pts afterwards, he traded 35 pts for 5 VP.
That seems to be an EXCELLENT trade for him.


I don't have SW points memorized so I don't know which unit is the 95 points unit, I'm sorry. That said, I can't think of a 95 points unit from what you posted that should reliably TKO the Sisters in a single instance.

The theory behind my statements is that your actual heavy lifting units 'escaped' a phase of damage that was actually threatening to them because it was redirected to the Sisters. A single turn of this is usually all you need to get them in a brutal retaliation spot. Think of this like a Chess move: the trade isn't analyzed based on just what he took from you on his turn, it's based on that and what you took back on yours.

So he sends firepower to take your backfield, you take all his midfield (which can deny him CP and VP in the new missions) or your now (unmolested) brawler units has a clearer path to one of his lynchpin pieces (usually a buff source or maybe a psyker doing psychic secondaries) or you just simply trade it for one of his own DZ spots and not only return the -5 back at him but wrack up linebreaker points.

The general point being that you can punish him harder for overcommitting against a very small portion of your force.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 18:08:58


Post by: Thairne


The 95 pts unit are Pteraxii, which I love to use against SoB for just that purpose

I see your theory... but I dont see how to apply it in these games for the above reasons.
Your plan basically depends on being able to to take the midfield.. which as I laid out is far from reliably doable (for me)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 18:20:17


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Ok, so it looks like I have the entirely wrong perspective on the game based on your replies.

So instead of fixating on "why defend the backfield objective" which I always considered to be the prime directive because I already own them, let me tell you what usually happens or what I'm generally up against.
I'm starting to feel like that's the actual error in my thinking.

What I'm usually up against consists of the following or some variation on it
1 Librarian
1 Primaris Chaplain on Bike
1 Primaris Captain
9 Bloodclaws
10 Grey Hunters
10 Intercessors
5 TWC /w thunderhammers&shields
5 Long Fangs with wolf Guard Terminator
3 Eradicators
3 Blade Guards
1 Rhino
1 Impulsor

now what usually happens is that he either very aggressively pushes up the middle with just some combat squad MSU on his backfield or goes balls to the walls if he goes second.
Rhino to block LOS for a backfield, TWC in the middle with 16" movement, Eradicators creating a "no go zone", T1 Drop Pod with 9 Blood Claws and Librarian and the Impulsor speeding up onto the mid field.
If I go first and go into the midfield, I invariably get charged. If he goes first, I'm not fast enough to do the same and get tackled one by one.
that basically means I cannot take the mid field at all, especially since I have 1 turn 1 Droppod assault with ~40 attacks coming which I cannot screen out.
The TWC are a special problem because of their speed, advance and charge and eventual rerolls. They are a tactical nuke I cannot stop and destroy whatever they touch, which already makes a hole in the line which an impulsor/bladeguard/the TWC can slip through. I cannot just "run up" because I get demolished, that is even without gak like the Armour of Russ or other Fights last which I barely have any access too.
I cannot push past him because he has numbers, alpha strike AND manveurability on his side. So if I dont defend my backfield, I will score 0 VP for the first 2 or 3 turns at which point I might as well concede.
This is why I got into the mindset that I need to hold what I have instead of getting outmaneuvered and slaughtered in melee.

Now, according to you, there is some very grave basic mistake I'm doing here, but I dont see it?


That space wolves list doesn't seem like it should be able to push you off the midfield, especially as shadowkeepers. If the thunder wolves have been a problem for you in the past, the stasis oubliette should fix that problem for you now, especially should your opponent decide to just yeet the thunder wolves at you. And even without fight last, between transhuman, emperors auspice and the - 1 attack from shadowkeepers, your guys should be able to tank a significant amount of damage the thunder wolves can dish out.

A bike captain and a MSU squad of jetbikes with salvo launchers should quite reliably be able to deal with the eradicators in shooting. Remember that they can advance and shoot with the second calistus stance, which provides a huge threat range.

If you own a contemptor dread, preferebly the Galatus, send him towards the bladeguard. They'll never ever get through him before he rips them apart. The Galatus also works well into the thunder wolves.

Your characters completely own all the space wolves characters, especially whoever gets to be lockwarden.

With the new codex you should own the midfield against that list.

Edit: another thing regarding the thunder wolfes. Tanglefoot grenade is obviously great if it can outright prevent a charge, but even if it only reduces the distance and the wolves can still make it, it can be amazing with the Dacatarai stance. Depending on how much he has to string them out to get a long charge, they might not get more than 3 models into combat, maybe even less.
This obviously won't work if the thunder wolves are standing right before you as they attempt to charge, but it's worth keeping in mind.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:02:07


Post by: Thairne


fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:18:06


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I won't lie, a Terminator Flag with +1 attack and a Gatekeeper is looking suspiciously evil right now. He can pump out 2-4 autohitting HB shots is ugly. In melee it's regular spear. But for only 110 points and 1CP, it's not a bad little option to give your flag some oomph.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:39:50


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.



You should be able to contest midfield against this list. Maybe you need more jetbikes. Remember, our Transhuman negates the +1 to wound entirely. Jetibikes also have 5W now which makes them fairly annoying to kill and they are very fast themselves. Unlike the TWC they can fly too.

I'd try that match up again with 2 3-man bike squads. I wouldn't take any Termies or Dreads till my bike quota was met.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:51:58


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So if Valoris takes the plus 2 wounds trait, does he then lose character and become a vehicle/monster? Since GW came out and said anything 10 wounds or over is a vehicle/monster and can be shot normally. Or does his "character keyword" still protect him? Honestly confused on what to do with a 10 wound Trajann.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DeU8mXJ2t1gBPVsd.jpg


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:54:52


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So if Valoris takes the plus 2 wounds trait, does he then lose character and become a vehicle/monster? Since GW came out and said anything 10 wounds or over is a vehicle/monster and can be shot normally. Or does his "character keyword" still protect him? Honestly confused on what to do with a 10 wound Trajann.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DeU8mXJ2t1gBPVsd.jpg


Doesn't Trajann have pre-assigned WT, making this moot?

Also, general rules say Look Out, Sir doesn't apply if you have more than 9W regardless of other keywords.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 19:59:37


Post by: Thairne


Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.



You should be able to contest midfield against this list. Maybe you need more jetbikes. Remember, our Transhuman negates the +1 to wound entirely. Jetibikes also have 5W now which makes them fairly annoying to kill and they are very fast themselves. Unlike the TWC they can fly too.

I'd try that match up again with 2 3-man bike squads. I wouldn't take any Termies or Dreads till my bike quota was met.


This is agonizing
The codex is too good in internal balance. Getting a list up that gets close to the pts limit is.. difficult xD

Spoiler:
+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 3. Superior Creation, 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Defiant to the Last, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: 1. Master of Martial Strategy, Salvo Launcher, Tip of the Spear, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vexilus Praetor: Castellan Axe, Vexilla Imperius

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher


What about this?
2x6 prosecs to hold the backline (or abandon them)
2x3 shield guard with a vexila and blade champ to walk up and take the midfield where his characters likely will be
2x3 jetbikes to take his and play catch with anything not fast enough

How low do you guys think we can go with pregame strats? All those relics and WLTs are so spicy...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:24:09


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So if Valoris takes the plus 2 wounds trait, does he then lose character and become a vehicle/monster? Since GW came out and said anything 10 wounds or over is a vehicle/monster and can be shot normally. Or does his "character keyword" still protect him? Honestly confused on what to do with a 10 wound Trajann.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DeU8mXJ2t1gBPVsd.jpg


Doesn't Trajann have pre-assigned WT, making this moot?

Also, general rules say Look Out, Sir doesn't apply if you have more than 9W regardless of other keywords.


I could have sworn several reviewers have said he can take two traits. But I'm not finding it in the section. I could be entirely wrong. I just wanted to confirm, thank you.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:24:09


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
fair enough, I didnt get in a game in 9th yet. T'was all 8th. So some things should change.

I did math it out tho, the Thunderwolves, with all strats active, he still has a ~30% chance to wipe out 3 Custodians on the charge. The stasis oubliette could solve that, but then again, they're way faster, so he'll always dictate the terms of the engagement.

Also don't forget that he has several buffs he can apply for his to hit and to wound, so I'm not sure it would just play out like that. SW are a melee focused chapter after all and they have some nasty stratagems like +1 to wound and +1 to hit/+1A just if he gets off the charge (which, like I said, he has a good chance to).

I dont feel very confident, but I can try.
I'll probably use the list I posted early (I think on p10) which doesnt have a Galatus, but a Telemon and was specifically engineered to take on SW. I might switch around a bit. like Allarus instead of Aquilons, a bike captain instead of Trajann, maybe fit in 2 Galatus instead of the Telemon somehow.. Or keep the Telemon. 4D attacks is exactly what I need to deal with them, as each failed invul is a dead model. He'll kill 2-3 and then he's stuck in a fight phase where he loses his charge bonuses and will collapse.



You should be able to contest midfield against this list. Maybe you need more jetbikes. Remember, our Transhuman negates the +1 to wound entirely. Jetibikes also have 5W now which makes them fairly annoying to kill and they are very fast themselves. Unlike the TWC they can fly too.

I'd try that match up again with 2 3-man bike squads. I wouldn't take any Termies or Dreads till my bike quota was met.


This is agonizing
The codex is too good in internal balance. Getting a list up that gets close to the pts limit is.. difficult xD

Spoiler:
+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 3. Superior Creation, 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Defiant to the Last, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: 1. Master of Martial Strategy, Salvo Launcher, Tip of the Spear, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vexilus Praetor: Castellan Axe, Vexilla Imperius

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher


What about this?
2x6 prosecs to hold the backline (or abandon them)
2x3 shield guard with a vexila and blade champ to walk up and take the midfield where his characters likely will be
2x3 jetbikes to take his and play catch with anything not fast enough

How low do you guys think we can go with pregame strats? All those relics and WLTs are so spicy...


Just my opinion but the pregame strats are definitely worth it, especially for the extra warlord traits and double warlord trait. Our stratagems generally got cheaper for MSU units, so you should last quite some time.
This is also another reason why trajann is so amazing...he's such a force multiplier and beatstick and on top of all that he gives an extra CP and let's you farm CP on 5+. But I think your list still works without him.

Your list looks like fun and should work well against the space wolves. Remember that the bikes can also hunt thunder wolves with their Salvo launcher since they do min 4dmg, though I'd focus on shooting down the eradicators first since they are easier target to remove.

You mentioned the Telemon and you are correct, our chonky boy works great into the thunder wolves as well.

Also remember that we have a strat to let a unit make a heroic intervention, that way you can build a ball of death in the midfield and no matter what the thunder wolves charge, they'll get ganged up by a bunch of golden boys ready to ruin their day.
In this particular matchup Wardens could even be a cool niche pick. If you put your blade champ with the Stasis Oubilette in front of a squad of Wardens, they become unchargeable because any space wolves unit that charges into that has to fight last and dies and the enemy can't even remove the blade champion standing in front with their shooting because of the Wardens bodyguard rule.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:28:34


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So if Valoris takes the plus 2 wounds trait, does he then lose character and become a vehicle/monster? Since GW came out and said anything 10 wounds or over is a vehicle/monster and can be shot normally. Or does his "character keyword" still protect him? Honestly confused on what to do with a 10 wound Trajann.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DeU8mXJ2t1gBPVsd.jpg


Doesn't Trajann have pre-assigned WT, making this moot?

Also, general rules say Look Out, Sir doesn't apply if you have more than 9W regardless of other keywords.


I could have sworn several reviewers have said he can take two traits. But I'm not finding it in the section. I could be entirely wrong. I just wanted to confirm, thank you.


He does get 2 but the second is also pre-selected. No flexibility for the leader of the 10,000!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:28:56


Post by: xerxeskingofking


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So if Valoris takes the plus 2 wounds trait, does he then lose character and become a vehicle/monster? Since GW came out and said anything 10 wounds or over is a vehicle/monster and can be shot normally. Or does his "character keyword" still protect him? Honestly confused on what to do with a 10 wound Trajann.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DeU8mXJ2t1gBPVsd.jpg


Doesn't Trajann have pre-assigned WT, making this moot?

Also, general rules say Look Out, Sir doesn't apply if you have more than 9W regardless of other keywords.


I could have sworn several reviewers have said he can take two traits. But I'm not finding it in the section. I could be entirely wrong. I just wanted to confirm, thank you.


he does have two, both pre-assigned, and MUST be your warlord if he is on the field.

goonhammer's review mentions it. he takes Master of Martial Strategy (5+ CP regen), and Champion of the Imperium (6" heroic intervention and full re-rolls to hit)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:36:20


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:


This is agonizing
The codex is too good in internal balance. Getting a list up that gets close to the pts limit is.. difficult xD

Spoiler:
+ HQ +

Blade Champion: (Shadowkeepers): Lockwarden, (Shadowkeepers): Statis Oubliette, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 3. Superior Creation, 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Defiant to the Last, Misericordia, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: 1. Master of Martial Strategy, Salvo Launcher, Tip of the Spear, Warlord

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
5x Prosecutor: 5x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Vexilus Praetor: Castellan Axe, Vexilla Imperius

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher


What about this?
2x6 prosecs to hold the backline (or abandon them)
2x3 shield guard with a vexila and blade champ to walk up and take the midfield where his characters likely will be
2x3 jetbikes to take his and play catch with anything not fast enough

How low do you guys think we can go with pregame strats? All those relics and WLTs are so spicy...


This is a very well balanced list! I can give you notes from the competitive perspective on it:

1. We're still up in the air if it should be sword+board or Sag. Jack Harpster is taking Custodes to LVO and decided to run all Sag.

2. One or two jetbike squads is as 'meta' as it gets for us right now.

3. Jetbikes should aim to shoot the Eradicators and even the TWC if they get a clear view.

4. Prosecutors are fine for the backfield.

So now the question becomes: what secondaries are we looking for here?

1. You've got a good amount of infantry so Raise the Banners is an obvious standout.

2. I wouldn't recommend To the Last or Grind Them Down into SW. You're likely to both suffer casualties and you're a brawling list (or to borrow a MOBA term: a bruiser).

3. With the jetbikes in front and the Sisters in the back, Engage looks fairly safe and appetizing for you.

4. No Prisoners looks appealing because this will likely be a bloodbath. Assassinate is a good backup especially because you're Shadowkeepers. I'd say either is a good pick with a leaning towards Assassinate given your Shield Host.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in case anyone is curious, here's Harpster's list which should be on BCP:


Trajann Valoris

Shield Captain on dawneagle- Auric Exemplar, superior creation, castellans mark, tip of the spear, salvo launcher, misericordia

3 sagittarum guard – misericordias

3 sagittarum guard – misericordias

5 prosecutors

5 voidsmen-at-arms

3 custodian wardens – axes

Contemptor-achillus – Lastrum Storm Bolters

Contemptor-achillus – Lastrum Storm Bolters

3 vertus praetors – salvo launchers

3 vertus praetors – salvo launchers

Caladius – Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:48:47


Post by: Tiberias


I'm seriously curious about those 3 wardens in harpsters list.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 20:57:24


Post by: Thairne


Tiberias wrote:

Just my opinion but the pregame strats are definitely worth it, especially for the extra warlord traits and double warlord trait. Our stratagems generally got cheaper for MSU units, so you should last quite some time.
This is also another reason why trajann is so amazing...he's such a force multiplier and beatstick and on top of all that he gives an extra CP and let's you farm CP on 5+. But I think your list still works without him.

Your list looks like fun and should work well against the space wolves. Remember that the bikes can also hunt thunder wolves with their Salvo launcher since they do min 4dmg, though I'd focus on shooting down the eradicators first since they are easier target to remove.

You mentioned the Telemon and you are correct, our chonky boy works great into the thunder wolves as well.

Also remember that we have a strat to let a unit make a heroic intervention, that way you can build a ball of death in the midfield and no matter what the thunder wolves charge, they'll get ganged up by a bunch of golden boys ready to ruin their day.
In this particular matchup Wardens could even be a cool niche pick. If you put your blade champ with the Stasis Oubilette in front of a squad of Wardens, they become unchargeable because any space wolves unit that charges into that has to fight last and dies and the enemy can't even remove the blade champion standing in front with their shooting because of the Wardens bodyguard rule.


So you'd go even deeper.
I admit, its very tempting. I might actually try out that gatekeeper... because getting into 12" is definately going to happen.
That still should give me around 13 (7+4 for rounds + 2 regened) CP all around to play with since I tagged the Bike Cap with the CP Regen.

The Warden trick is VERY nice. I'll need to keep that in mind for 2k lists. Especially if you can do the good, old LOS trick too.

Audustum wrote:
This is a very well balanced list! I can give you notes from the competitive perspective on it:

1. We're still up in the air if it should be sword+board or Sag. Jack Harpster is taking Custodes to LVO and decided to run all Sag.

2. One or two jetbike squads is as 'meta' as it gets for us right now.

3. Jetbikes should aim to shoot the Eradicators and even the TWC if they get a clear view.

4. Prosecutors are fine for the backfield.

So now the question becomes: what secondaries are we looking for here?

1. You've got a good amount of infantry so Raise the Banners is an obvious standout.

2. I wouldn't recommend To the Last or Grind Them Down into SW. You're likely to both suffer casualties and you're a brawling list (or to borrow a MOBA term: a bruiser).

3. With the jetbikes in front and the Sisters in the back, Engage looks fairly safe and appetizing for you.

4. No Prisoners looks appealing because this will likely be a bloodbath. Assassinate is a good backup especially because you're Shadowkeepers. I'd say either is a good pick with a leaning towards Assassinate given your Shield Host.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in case anyone is curious, here's Harpster's list which should be on BCP:


Trajann Valoris

Shield Captain on dawneagle- Auric Exemplar, superior creation, castellans mark, tip of the spear, salvo launcher, misericordia

3 sagittarum guard – misericordias

3 sagittarum guard – misericordias

5 prosecutors

5 voidsmen-at-arms

3 custodian wardens – axes

Contemptor-achillus – Lastrum Storm Bolters

Contemptor-achillus – Lastrum Storm Bolters

3 vertus praetors – salvo launchers

3 vertus praetors – salvo launchers

Caladius – Twin Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon



Thanks!
I've been mulling over this list for hours now. And it changed to something completely different Well, mostly. You already noticed double Prosecco which is a FAR departure from my earlier argument
Sags seem to be general purpose, but in this case, I'm looking at the Praesidium Shield Wall strat as very valuable. It can take most SWs down to 3s from hitting on 2s if they charge or, even better, down to 4 or even 5.
So Raise, Engage and No Prisoners/Assassinate depending on the number of possible/likely scored VPs. Gotcha.

I'm really surprised to find only 2 HQs in Harpers list. Captain Yeetus is so tempting and flexible that I almost figured him an auto take. In this list though - I could actually see me replacing him with Trajann...
That would give each Squad an escorting character and a lot of added hitting power via Trajann. Also frees up a relic for Castellan's Mark. Hm.
The Voidsmen are an interesting pick. Presumably VERY cheap backfielders?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 21:05:43


Post by: bmsattler


For melee armies, also remember you have Tanglefoot grenades. They can turn a sure-thing charge into a fail at any point.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 21:31:19


Post by: Zphyre


I'm pretty new to the custodes and with the new codex i'm very hesitant what to put on my Allarus. What is the general consensus here? Spears or Axes?

Right now i bought myself:
- Trajann
- Shadow Throne
- Vertus Praetors
- Custodian Guard
- 2x Pyrithite Spears
- 2x Venatari Squad
- Telemon with a fist and Iliastus Culverin

I am waiting for the combat patrol to come out in order to get a second squad of guard and bikes, while also having enough sisters forever together with the Shadow throne box. Perhaps any tips on what would be nice to get next? I'm okay with forgeworld stuff as well.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 21:34:41


Post by: Thairne


there's no clear cut answer for that.
Spears have the better AP, but axes have the critical S8.
It all depends on what you're going against. Though personally, if you dont have the bits/dont magnetize, go with axes on Allarus as you can get spears on your troops.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 23:25:25


Post by: Salt donkey


Zphyre wrote:
I'm pretty new to the custodes and with the new codex i'm very hesitant what to put on my Allarus. What is the general consensus here? Spears or Axes?

Right now i bought myself:
- Trajann
- Shadow Throne
- Vertus Praetors
- Custodian Guard
- 2x Pyrithite Spears
- 2x Venatari Squad
- Telemon with a fist and Iliastus Culverin

I am waiting for the combat patrol to come out in order to get a second squad of guard and bikes, while also having enough sisters forever together with the Shadow throne box. Perhaps any tips on what would be nice to get next? I'm okay with forgeworld stuff as well.


1) terminators are hard to justify over wardens, even at 60 points The extra wound is slightly better than the 6+++, but only by a little. Grenade launches are fine, but these 2 things are probably not worth the 10 points+bodyguard rule wardens get.

2) that said ftm axes are the clear choice over spears. There’s no longer any meta relevant things which shuts down AP -2. On the other hand, ork ramshackle gets negated by S8, and S8 hits 3 important thresholds (wounds T8 on 4’s, T7 on 3’s, and T4 on 2’s). Tons of things also already get to their inv saves from AP -2 (2+/4++, 3+/5++, 5+, anyone with just an inv).

3) with that said wardens are a clear pickup for you. Them and some of the FW smaller dreads. 2 boxes of wardens goes a long way to shoring up your foot dude requirements.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/25 23:28:08


Post by: Eihnlazer


always good to have some of both yes. If i take 3 single man allarus and an allarus cap, i always put 2 spears/2 axes (axe on the cap).

To the above poster asking about trajann: He cannot take Captain commander traits, and there is no +2 wound trait anymore to begin with.

Trajann gets his 2 locked in WL traits.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 00:16:32


Post by: Zphyre


Thank you for all the responses. I thought the general idea with Wardens was that they are bad and that you should rather take custodian guard with a few shields and spears if you want to go for damage. I forgot to mention I also have 2 upgrade kits for Sagittarum. I was actually planning to get some wardens just to have the nice tabard thing for them. I actually DO plan to magnetize as much as possible. But the Allarus weapons seem to be too thin to magnetize at the part where you put the axe/spear part together on the weapon. Additional info: I also like to go for Solar Watch shield host.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 00:17:46


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So spears get the almighty +1 to wound strat still? Or did that go bye bye? It's sort of what always set spears over axes for me.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 00:42:53


Post by: Eihnlazer


no more strats for the spears or axes, but since spears went to str7 its not as nessecary to do stuff.

We also have Rendax Ka'tah that gives +1str on the charge.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 01:35:29


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I had a chance to play with the new Codex against my friend's Nidzilla list last weekend before he heads off for some fun at LVO. Below is my army list, photos and general observations.

Spoiler:
Army - 1500pts
HQ - Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (Lockwarden & Superior Creation), Blade Master, Knight Centura (Silent Judge)
Troops - Guard Squad x4, x3, x3; Prosecutors x5
Elites - Contemptor Achillus Dreadnought w/ Adrathic x2
Vexilus Praetor - Vexilla Imperius
Vindicare Assassin
Secondaries: Auric Mortalis, To the Last, Abhor the Witch
Katas - Callistas, Kaptaris, Rendax


Spoiler:
Pictures

Setup

Party at the Southern objective

Giant bug just exploded dishing out MW

Consolidated to protect my remaining characters after the explosion. More giant bugs incoming.

My warlord destroying the Tyranid Warlord who then immediately slew him upon death


General Observations
-Using Katas are a lot easier than they are written and the abilities are very useful. I personally don't like stacking layers upon layers of rules, it ends up being one more thing you may end up forgetting. Callistas (Roll 2 Keep 1 Advance) is helpful Round 1, Kaptaris (rerolls) came into play a lot in Round 2.
-I still love playing Shadowkeepers, the reroll Wounds vs Characters was excellent! The -1 Attacks is powerful trait, well, as long as you don't forget about it like I did for a few turns
-Auric Mortalis is a great Secondary. Unfortunately for me, when I defeated my opponents highest cost model their gigantic base was 5.9" away from my deployment zone so I only got 8 out of 15 points.
-Our game was a bloodbath so To the Last earned me 0 points (my 4 man Guard Squad perished in the last turn of the game) but I'd still recommend it against most armies
-Losing the 3++ is rough, I had many games in 8th where Guard Squads would survive several salvos without a scratch. This game I was on the 4++ for about 70% of attacks. Against opponents with high AP high damage Melee weapons I don't think the Storm Shields are as worthwhile, Shooting on the other hand..
-I went with the +1 Attack banner for the Praetor since my opponent had very little shooting. Against other opponents I'd run the Light Cover banner with storm shields.
-The Achillus Dread has my favorite aesthetics in this army and was excellent fighting giant bugs. I do wish the Spear had longer range than 24" Shooting.
-Prosecutors are cheap Obsec which won me a lot of primary points
-The Knight Centura's WL trait of Silent Judge is extremely useful. In the future I plan on trying out Aleya with Vigilators but I was very impressed by Silent Judge
-While I got a chance to use the Creeping Dread stratagem (6" Aura for -1 Hit) I wish there was a better way to protect the Sisters of Silence that didn't involve such short range or a Rhino
-I was short on points and included a Vindicare Assassin. He was actually surprisingly helpful dealing with my opponents ObSec troops and nearly one shot my opponents Brood Lord. Of course the Heavy 1 Rifle did miss in the first round
-Tanglefoot grenade was the MVP stratagem for me this game. I'm also very happy that many of our stratagems have dropped down to 1 CP from 8th.

Playing Vs Nidzilla
-Great reason to go with Spears over Sword & Board. Several of the giant bugs were T6 or T7 and a S7 weapon would have been outstanding this game.
-D2 weapons are great vs Marine armies but man are they rough when most of my opponents army had -1 DMG. The Adrathic Destructors came in handy for this match.
-The Vault Blade with the highest Damage also allows rerolls for Wounds, unfortunately as Shadowkeepers I already had that benefit against characters and my Blade Champion was primarily fighting Characters
-Tyranids have a very useful Stratagem that allows them to many Mortal Wound after declaring a charge. My opponent used this to kill my Knight Centura (Round 1) and Blade Champion (Round 4)
-They also have another stratagem where my opponents warlord was able to melee me upon death which annihilated my Shield Captain on the Jetbike
-Last but not least be mindful of charging too many models into a foe. Tyranids have a stratagem that allow them to auto-succeed on the Explode roll and that dished out a total of 11 MW to several units.

Final score: 76 to 72


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 07:18:46


Post by: Salt donkey


Zphyre wrote:
Thank you for all the responses. I thought the general idea with Wardens was that they are bad and that you should rather take custodian guard with a few shields and spears if you want to go for damage. I forgot to mention I also have 2 upgrade kits for Sagittarum. I was actually planning to get some wardens just to have the nice tabard thing for them. I actually DO plan to magnetize as much as possible. But the Allarus weapons seem to be too thin to magnetize at the part where you put the axe/spear part together on the weapon. Additional info: I also like to go for Solar Watch shield host.


Being 10 points cheaper is nice for the shield guardians, but the wardens get a lot for those 10 points. Shield guardians were better pre-codex for the 3++, but that going away kills them in this vs. 1st off Wardens are much better at offense. Getting an extra attack and better weapons matter a lot. Second 6+++ is so much better than the +1 armor save in meta where D3 weapons are common. Throw in bodyguard for some extra spice and you’re only ever taken shield guardians because you have to.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 07:41:18


Post by: nordsturmking


 Eihnlazer wrote:
no more strats for the spears or axes, but since spears went to str7 its not as nessecary to do stuff.

We also have Rendax Ka'tah that gives +1str on the charge.


But we still have the Slayers of Nightmares start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I had a chance to play with the new Codex against my friend's Nidzilla list last weekend before he heads off for some fun at LVO. Below is my army list, photos and general observations.

Thanks for the battle report. I agree in the current meta an Achillus is still really great, especially against Crusher Stampede and thicc city.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 10:36:48


Post by: Thairne


Question
How do we deal with SW strat of Keen Senses?
It ignores Tanglefoot, Praesidium Shield Wall and basically Emperor's auspice.
WLT gives extra attacks on the charge, so one is facing up to 15 S8 -2/-3 3D attacks that hit on a 2+ even with the Shadowkeepers trait.
AGA is useless, as on avg there's still enough wounds to wipe out a squad of custodians.

All that for one single CP that cancels out basically all defensive strats.

Edit:
Only idea I have is to redeploy the 2 units of bikes and hope to reduce them before they make the inevitable charge. But even then I can only take out 1, maybe 2 on avg. Maybe 3 if I can get Trajann for RR1s. I hate these things so fething much.

Edit2:
Took a good hot shower and had a think. I came to the conclusion that I am, again, working of the wrong doctrine, so to speak. I cannot stop him. That much is pretty set unless the dice gods love my face.
So, if I cannot stop him, I need to live with the fallout. So he makes the charge into a shield squad.I will HI either with Trajann or the Blade Wizard (who could fights last them, which is why I presume he will pivot to Trajann). He is very unlikely to kill either even at max strength (but in the case of Trajann, it might be REALLY close). That means if he wipes out the Guard Squad, ~300+ pts take out 150pts. Then the remainder will fight, be it a squad or Trajann/Blade Champ, killing the squad outright or cripple it. Not the ideal outcome, but in the end I'll have somethin sitting on a midfield objective on a pile of dead thunderwolves. It might still be a very good idea to dedicate a turn or two of shooting into them over the erads to make the odds better (if the erads are there in the first place, which I assume might not be).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 11:55:52


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Question
How do we deal with SW strat of Keen Senses?
It ignores Tanglefoot, Praesidium Shield Wall and basically Emperor's auspice.
WLT gives extra attacks on the charge, so one is facing up to 15 S8 -2/-3 3D attacks that hit on a 2+ even with the Shadowkeepers trait.
AGA is useless, as on avg there's still enough wounds to wipe out a squad of custodians.

All that for one single CP that cancels out basically all defensive strats.

Edit:
Only idea I have is to redeploy the 2 units of bikes and hope to reduce them before they make the inevitable charge. But even then I can only take out 1, maybe 2 on avg. Maybe 3 if I can get Trajann for RR1s. I hate these things so fething much.

Edit2:
Took a good hot shower and had a think. I came to the conclusion that I am, again, working of the wrong doctrine, so to speak. I cannot stop him. That much is pretty set unless the dice gods love my face.
So, if I cannot stop him, I need to live with the fallout. So he makes the charge into a shield squad.I will HI either with Trajann or the Blade Wizard (who could fights last them, which is why I presume he will pivot to Trajann). He is very unlikely to kill either even at max strength (but in the case of Trajann, it might be REALLY close). That means if he wipes out the Guard Squad, ~300+ pts take out 150pts. Then the remainder will fight, be it a squad or Trajann/Blade Champ, killing the squad outright or cripple it. Not the ideal outcome, but in the end I'll have somethin sitting on a midfield objective on a pile of dead thunderwolves. It might still be a very good idea to dedicate a turn or two of shooting into them over the erads to make the odds better (if the erads are there in the first place, which I assume might not be).


The blade champion has a 6" heroic intervention. So if you pay attention to your positioning, it should be really difficult for the thunderwolves to charge your stuff in the midfield without getting fight lasted by the Stasis Oubliette. If you manage to make the thunderwolves fight last, they'll either outright die (depending on what exactily is hitting them and what buffs are available like Trajann or banner) or get crippled so severely that they don't pose that much of a threat anymore.
He can manage to touch your stuff with the thunderwolves if your positioning is a bit off if he really strings them out after the charge and barely touches your stuff so that the Blade Champ is just out of heroic intervention range. That's why the Dacatarai Kata is so awsome, because if the goes for that strategy, he won't be able to get a meaningful number of wolves into combat with a 1" pile in.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 12:21:20


Post by: Thairne


True. Its a bit more advanced than I can probably pull iff (I'm pretty novice in playing melee armies) but I'll keep that in mind. I think he'll smell the bait though and swing over and into Trajann, because that is the more tempting target. If that gives me another turn of shooting - good for me! That solves the problem as well.
I dont know where he'll put the armour of russ though as that might counter the Stasis Oubliette.It's a mind game, but at least I have an inkling on how to deal with it though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 12:46:04


Post by: Salt donkey


Thairn don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you’d benefit more from playing than anything else at this point. From my understanding keen senses only works doesn’t work on auspice at all, since it’s not a modifier. That with transhuman means we can at least get them wounding on 4’s with no re-rolls possible.

This leads me to my main point. I just don’t see space wolves as an army we need to worry about in a competitive sense. We outmuscle them in melee, especially shadowkeepers. Our bikes have more of threat range than any of their melee units due to fly, and combine with FW can outshoot them as well.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 12:50:12


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
True. Its a bit more advanced than I can probably pull iff (I'm pretty novice in playing melee armies) but I'll keep that in mind. I think he'll smell the bait though and swing over and into Trajann, because that is the more tempting target. If that gives me another turn of shooting - good for me! That solves the problem as well.
I dont know where he'll put the armour of russ though as that might counter the Stasis Oubliette.It's a mind game, but at least I have an inkling on how to deal with it though.


Also remember that if he uses the Keen Senses stratagem, he has to do so in the shooting phase. So you know which unit you can't Tanglefoot in the charge phase....if he uses it on the thunderwolves, then you can tanglefoot the character who carries the armor of russ and vice versa. Which also means he can't stop you from using Tanglefoot in the movement phase, should the need or opportunity to do so arise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Salt donkey wrote:
Thairn don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you’d benefit more from playing than anything else at this point. From my understanding keen senses only works doesn’t work on auspice at all, since it’s not a modifier. That with transhuman means we can at least get them wounding on 4’s with no re-rolls possible.

This leads me to my main point. I just don’t see space wolves as an army we need to worry about in a competitive sense. We outmuscle them in melee, especially shadowkeepers. Our bikes have more of threat range than any of their melee units due to fly, and combine with FW can outshoot them as well.


I would agree, Keen Senses does not work against Emperor's Auspice.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 13:00:18


Post by: Thairne


Playing is fine, and I will
But I've tried to deal with TWC for years know and not found a way to do it.
These past few forum posts have really helped me formulate plans and shifted the paradigm on how I intend to deal with it, list design etc. and have probably increased my winning chances by quite a few percent
Which is kinda addicting since it keeps coming
In case you didn't notice, I'm not the best player there is and am more familiar with shooty armies. So all the ways you're showing me here are things I didn't consider before!

Keen senses does indeed not affecr Emperor's auspice, but the "bad" thing is that he doesn't need to in the first place. If he pops Keen Senses, which he will, he'll ignore
- Tanglefoot
- his own TH malus
- Praesidium Shield Wall
and hit on 2s, which means he's wiping a squad on average even with AGA and Auspice active. Which means I can't do anything and just have to hope for good rolls (or accept and deal with it).
If I can kite him around for one more turn by having him run over to trajann instead of the blade champ, maybe fail a charge because he can't traverse breachable terrain that could be a game winning situation.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 13:34:12


Post by: Eihnlazer


Space wolves are one of our worst matchups in my opinion. They just have all the tools to mess up our secondary game.

They do not ignore Emperors Auspice or AGA though. Your defence should be just fine. Just try not to let them rip you apart piece by piece.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 13:35:23


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Playing is fine, and I will
But I've tried to deal with TWC for years know and not found a way to do it.
These past few forum posts have really helped me formulate plans and shifted the paradigm on how I intend to deal with it, list design etc. and have probably increased my winning chances by quite a few percent
Which is kinda addicting since it keeps coming
In case you didn't notice, I'm not the best player there is and am more familiar with shooty armies. So all the ways you're showing me here are things I didn't consider before!

Keen senses does indeed not affecr Emperor's auspice, but the "bad" thing is that he doesn't need to in the first place. If he pops Keen Senses, which he will, he'll ignore
- Tanglefoot
- his own TH malus
- Praesidium Shield Wall
and hit on 2s, which means he's wiping a squad on average even with AGA and Auspice active. Which means I can't do anything and just have to hope for good rolls (or accept and deal with it).
If I can kite him around for one more turn by having him run over to trajann instead of the blade champ, maybe fail a charge because he can't traverse breachable terrain that could be a game winning situation.


Again, if he uses Keen Senses on the thunderwolves, you can use Tanglefoot on whatever character is carrying the Armor of Russ (and vice versa). So you can fight last the thunderwolves with the Stasis Oubliette and just kill them.

Even if he also makes the charge with the character carrying the Armor of Russ and you both fight last each other, you'll make the thunderwolves fight last for sure and it doesn't matter what unit he makes fight last, because everything you should have in the midfield is kind of a big threat.

So for example:

-let's say you have your Custodian Guard with shield, the Blade Champ and Trajann in the midfield. You position them in a way so that the blade champ can make a heroic intervention should the shield squad get charged.
-your opponent uses Keen Senses in his shooting phase on his thunderwolves
-in the charge phase he attempts to charge your shield squad with the thunderwolves and a character who carries the Armor of Russ.

Scenario A:
-you use Tanglefoot on the character with Armor of Russ and succeed in preventing his charge.
-the thunderwolves charge your shield squad, the Blade Champ and Trajann both use their 6" heroic intervention. The Blade Champ uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last. The thunderwolves die. (If he positions himself in such an awkward way so that only one of his models barely gets into engagement range with you, so that the Blade Champ can not make his heroic intervention, make sure you are in Dacatarai stance 2 so you can reduce his pile in to 1". Chances are, he'll not get a lot of models into actual combat with you. This is obviously situational and greatly depends on positioning, but it's something to keep in mind)

Scenario B:
-the character with Armor of Russ makes his charge anyway because you rolled low on Tanglefoot and makes one of your units fight last.
-the thunderwolves again charge your shield squad.
-the Blade Champion and Trajann are still going to make their heroic intervention and the Blade Champ still uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last.
-the character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first since he charged and wasn't fight lasted. He'll likely do absolutely nothing between you using transhuman and auspice.
-the two units you have in engagement who were not fight lastet, get to fight next and hit the thunderwolves. Maybe killing them, but surely severely crippling them.
-your unit who was fight lasted gets to fight before the thunderwolves, because fight last cancels ALL instances of fight first and it goes over to alternating activations, starting with the player whose turn it isn't, which is you. (please correct me on that bullet point, but I am pretty sure this is how it works. Which is STUPID btw and I hate that GW went with this fight last/fight first nonsense instead of initiative.....all for sTreAmLinIng the rules, but don't get me started...)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Space wolves are one of our worst matchups in my opinion. They just have all the tools to mess up our secondary game.

They do not ignore Emperors Auspice or AGA though. Your defence should be just fine. Just try not to let them rip you apart piece by piece.


Wait, really? What's scary about them, especially when bringing a Shadowkeepers list?

My best friend plays space wolves and he outright refuses to play me if I bring Shadowkeepers


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 13:47:38


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 nordsturmking wrote:

Thanks for the battle report. I agree in the current meta an Achillus is still really great, especially against Crusher Stampede and thicc city.


Yeah I'm curious how much they'll change when they FAQ our forgeworld units, I always loved that lunging strike ability. They've got a lot of versatility with weapons loadout and can handle enemies big and small, but they are a bit fragile.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 14:33:14


Post by: Eihnlazer


Space wolve lists tend to have the mobility to outmanuver us (with a cheap unit that can hit our backfield from reserve, lots of jetpack guys, TWC, and dreads). They can use all this to hit us on both flanks at once (whereas we are more a 2 front army, wolves can be on all 3 fronts).

They also have the cheap little cyber wolves to screen us out of their backfield and stop our deep striking.

They toss out just enough quantity of attacks to chip us down over 3 turns so that we dont have alot to work with in the late game as well.

If you dont get a good strong start against wolves your almost guarenteed a loss.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 16:13:07


Post by: Thairne


Tiberias wrote:

Scenario A:
-you use Tanglefoot on the character with Armor of Russ and succeed in preventing his charge.
-the thunderwolves charge your shield squad, the Blade Champ and Trajann both use their 6" heroic intervention. The Blade Champ uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last. The thunderwolves die. (If he positions himself in such an awkward way so that only one of his models barely gets into engagement range with you, so that the Blade Champ can not make his heroic intervention, make sure you are in Dacatarai stance 2 so you can reduce his pile in to 1". Chances are, he'll not get a lot of models into actual combat with you. This is obviously situational and greatly depends on positioning, but it's something to keep in mind)

Scenario B:
-the character with Armor of Russ makes his charge anyway because you rolled low on Tanglefoot and makes one of your units fight last.
-the thunderwolves again charge your shield squad.
-the Blade Champion and Trajann are still going to make their heroic intervention and the Blade Champ still uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last.
-the character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first since he charged and wasn't fight lasted. He'll likely do absolutely nothing between you using transhuman and auspice.
-the two units you have in engagement who were not fight lastet, get to fight next and hit the thunderwolves. Maybe killing them, but surely severely crippling them.
-your unit who was fight lasted gets to fight before the thunderwolves, because fight last cancels ALL instances of fight first and it goes over to alternating activations, starting with the player whose turn it isn't, which is you. (please correct me on that bullet point, but I am pretty sure this is how it works. Which is STUPID btw and I hate that GW went with this fight last/fight first nonsense instead of initiative.....all for sTreAmLinIng the rules, but don't get me started...)


Very reasonable and I'll try to make this happen in one way or the other.
Stupid question though, and this goes back very much to the basics - should I attack one midfield Objective or go for both?
Because if I go for both, he can just pick the side the Oubliette is not on.
If I go for one, he can slip by and easily take 2 obj in the back from me.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 16:49:21


Post by: Amadaes


Quick question. With the All seeing Annihilator warlord trait, does it apply to ranged attacks now as well? I would think so, but making sure I am not missing something where ranges attacks are described differently.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 16:50:03


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Tiberias wrote:

Scenario B:
-the character with Armor of Russ makes his charge anyway because you rolled low on Tanglefoot and makes one of your units fight last.
-the thunderwolves again charge your shield squad.
-the Blade Champion and Trajann are still going to make their heroic intervention and the Blade Champ still uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last.
-the character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first since he charged and wasn't fight lasted. He'll likely do absolutely nothing between you using transhuman and auspice.
-the two units you have in engagement who were not fight lastet, get to fight next and hit the thunderwolves. Maybe killing them, but surely severely crippling them.
-your unit who was fight lasted gets to fight before the thunderwolves, because fight last cancels ALL instances of fight first and it goes over to alternating activations, starting with the player whose turn it isn't, which is you. (please correct me on that bullet point, but I am pretty sure this is how it works. Which is STUPID btw and I hate that GW went with this fight last/fight first nonsense instead of initiative.....all for sTreAmLinIng the rules, but don't get me started...)

Yeah I'm not a fan of Fight First / Fight Last since it's not intuitive, a new player reads "Fights First" and generally thinks that means they get to Fight First without realizing that someone charging them is also a Fight First. I'm fairly certain you're correct on that one since Stasis Oubliette appears to be an exception type rule where it forces that model to fight last after all your units no matter what.

Amadaes wrote:
Quick question. With the All seeing Annihilator warlord trait, does it apply to ranged attacks now as well? I would think so, but making sure I am not missing something where ranges attacks are described differently.

The wording in the trait is "attack" which I believe is a generic term to apply to Shooting and Melee attacks but I could be wrong. Are you running Dreadhost? They always looked like a fun Shield Host.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 16:53:19


Post by: Tiberias


Eihnlazer wrote:Space wolve lists tend to have the mobility to outmanuver us (with a cheap unit that can hit our backfield from reserve, lots of jetpack guys, TWC, and dreads). They can use all this to hit us on both flanks at once (whereas we are more a 2 front army, wolves can be on all 3 fronts).

They also have the cheap little cyber wolves to screen us out of their backfield and stop our deep striking.

They toss out just enough quantity of attacks to chip us down over 3 turns so that we dont have alot to work with in the late game as well.

If you dont get a good strong start against wolves your almost guarenteed a loss.


On that I kinda disagree, especially in Thairnes example where we know it's Shadowkeepers vs Space Wolves. The wolves like to play herohammer, the shadowkeepers counter that so hard it's not even funny. The wolves absolutely have potent melee threats you need to take seriously, but between our great strats, katas and stellar characters (especially when having access to the Stasis Oubliette) we can absolutely deal with that. They are very fast and can threaten more flanks than we can, but if you manage to take out their key characters and damage dealers like thunder wolves, their force starts to fall apart.

Thairne wrote:
Very reasonable and I'll try to make this happen in one way or the other.
Stupid question though, and this goes back very much to the basics - should I attack one midfield Objective or go for both?
Because if I go for both, he can just pick the side the Oubliette is not on.
If I go for one, he can slip by and easily take 2 obj in the back from me.


I don't think anyone can give a cookie cutter answer to that question, since it greatly depens on the mission, deployment and what your opponent decides to do in the first turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amadaes wrote:
Quick question. With the All seeing Annihilator warlord trait, does it apply to ranged attacks now as well? I would think so, but making sure I am not missing something where ranges attacks are described differently.


Yes, it does indeed also work on shooting attacks, which is actually pretty nice. If you go Dreadhost, this is definitely a warlord trait to consider. I personally like it on the Blade Champion alongside the Peerless Warrior trait so he can get exploding 6s to hit in melee and MWs on 6s to wound. But he could also buff a unit of jetbikes with hurricane bolters for example, which become very interesting in Dreadhost particularly since you get +1AP when you shoot something within 9".


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 17:32:49


Post by: Amadaes


Definitely thinking in that direction. This may push me to run Dreadhost for a while. Still putting together lists to see what looks best.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 17:39:13


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The Bike Captain with HB and All Seeing Annihilator is definately tempting, as it turns the HB into a slightly better AT weapon, just by sheer chance, than the Meltabike. The melta bike can still fail to a single 4+ roll. The HBs have the chance within close range, to on average, 2 MWs in Shooting, and another in Melee. It's very attractive indeed.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 18:21:03


Post by: Audustum


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Tiberias wrote:

Scenario B:
-the character with Armor of Russ makes his charge anyway because you rolled low on Tanglefoot and makes one of your units fight last.
-the thunderwolves again charge your shield squad.
-the Blade Champion and Trajann are still going to make their heroic intervention and the Blade Champ still uses the Stasis Oubliette to make the thunderwolves fight last.
-the character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first since he charged and wasn't fight lasted. He'll likely do absolutely nothing between you using transhuman and auspice.
-the two units you have in engagement who were not fight lastet, get to fight next and hit the thunderwolves. Maybe killing them, but surely severely crippling them.
-your unit who was fight lasted gets to fight before the thunderwolves, because fight last cancels ALL instances of fight first and it goes over to alternating activations, starting with the player whose turn it isn't, which is you. (please correct me on that bullet point, but I am pretty sure this is how it works. Which is STUPID btw and I hate that GW went with this fight last/fight first nonsense instead of initiative.....all for sTreAmLinIng the rules, but don't get me started...)

Yeah I'm not a fan of Fight First / Fight Last since it's not intuitive, a new player reads "Fights First" and generally thinks that means they get to Fight First without realizing that someone charging them is also a Fight First. I'm fairly certain you're correct on that one since Stasis Oubliette appears to be an exception type rule where it forces that model to fight last after all your units no matter what.

Amadaes wrote:
Quick question. With the All seeing Annihilator warlord trait, does it apply to ranged attacks now as well? I would think so, but making sure I am not missing something where ranges attacks are described differently.

The wording in the trait is "attack" which I believe is a generic term to apply to Shooting and Melee attacks but I could be wrong. Are you running Dreadhost? They always looked like a fun Shield Host.


I'm pretty sure the Designer Commentary solves all fight first/last questions. It just looks like this:

There are 3 fight priorities. First, Normal and Last (I'll just call them 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority for simplicity).

According to the Designer Commentary, any source of 1st priority ('Fight First') puts you in 1st priority. These do not stack and make some kind of super-first. Charging gives you a source of 1st priority.

2nd priority is what we would call 'Normal'. It's the prolonged engagement priority. According to the Designer Commentary, I believe that's where it's located, if you have any number of 1st priority sources and you get hit with a 3rd priority ability, you end up here. There is no 'fight last' source that can drag you lower than this if you also have a source of 'fight first'. You cannot use two 1st priority sources to climb out of here after getting hit with a 3rd priority source either. They don't work like hit modifiers. Any number of 1st priority and any number of 3rd priority sources present on a unit, even if it's not the same number of either priority, means you end up here.

3rd priority is what we call the 'fight last' category. You can only end up here if you're at 2nd priority and get hit with a source of 3rd priority (i.e. a fight last ability). You cannot use counter-offensive or interrupt stratagems on units in this category. All units in this category, regardless of the source of the fight last ability affecting them, alternate activations.

So if you charge and then get hit with the Armor of Russ, you fight at 2nd priority (non-charger, prolonged engagement priority), not 3rd priority. If you didn't charge and get hit with the Armor of Russ, you go to 3rd priority.

1st priority fights start with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.

2nd priority fights start with the player whose turn it is NOT and alternate from there.

3rd priority fights return to starting with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Thairne wrote:


Thanks!
I've been mulling over this list for hours now. And it changed to something completely different Well, mostly. You already noticed double Prosecco which is a FAR departure from my earlier argument
Sags seem to be general purpose, but in this case, I'm looking at the Praesidium Shield Wall strat as very valuable. It can take most SWs down to 3s from hitting on 2s if they charge or, even better, down to 4 or even 5.
So Raise, Engage and No Prisoners/Assassinate depending on the number of possible/likely scored VPs. Gotcha.

I'm really surprised to find only 2 HQs in Harpers list. Captain Yeetus is so tempting and flexible that I almost figured him an auto take. In this list though - I could actually see me replacing him with Trajann...
That would give each Squad an escorting character and a lot of added hitting power via Trajann. Also frees up a relic for Castellan's Mark. Hm.
The Voidsmen are an interesting pick. Presumably VERY cheap backfielders?


I am hearing the 2022 missions may not be as Raise friendly as the 2021 missions. They're only on pre-order still so we'll have to see, but for 2021 this is solid.

Harper and some of the others fear giving up 9 points for Assassinate (or even offering that option) I believe. So 2 Characters is a preference for them. Custodes can be just as much about denying scoring through list tailoring.

Voidsmen are super cheap objective holders, absolutely. Even cheaper than Prosecutors.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 18:35:30


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Audustum wrote:

1st priority fights start with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.

2nd priority fights start with the player whose turn it is NOT and alternate from there.

3rd priority fights return to starting with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.


At this point I think it would have been far easier to have an Initiative stat of 1, 2, or 3 and each of the effects described give +1/-1 to a maximum of 3 and minimum of 0.

Voidsmen are super cheap objective holders, absolutely. Even cheaper than Prosecutors.


I don't recall do the Voidsmen require a Rogue Trader in order to field them?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 18:36:23


Post by: Tiberias


I'm not sure there Audustum. I've asked this question before in the old thread and on other media and the answer then was when you get hit with a fight last ability, you fight in what you called the 3rd category.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 18:45:55


Post by: Audustum


Tiberias wrote:
I'm not sure there Audustum. I've asked this question before in the old thread and on other media and the answer then was when you get hit with a fight last ability, you fight in what you called the 3rd category.


That's what some people thought before the Designer's Commentary. For a time in 9th, it actually was debatable and Goonhammer partially led the charge; arguing that there were different kinds of fight last abilities that would affect you differently. The Designer's Commentary was made to fix that. You can find it here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/OQ1TeUZ6hxw5jp1e.pdf

Relevantly:


In practice then, it is best to think of the Fight phase as being
made up of three separate steps, as follows:
1. Players alternate selecting eligible ‘fights first’ units to fight
with, one at a time, starting with the player whose turn is
taking place.
2. Players alternate selecting eligible ‘fights normally’ units to
fight with, one at a time, starting with the player whose turn
is not taking place.
3. Players alternate selecting eligible ‘fights last’ units to fight
with, one at a time, starting with the player whose turn is
taking place



The rare rules then clarify a few things:
1. If a unit has charged it is a ‘fights first’ unit that turn.
2. A unit is a ‘fights first’ unit whether it is under the effect of
just one, or multiple, ‘fight first’ rules.
3. A unit is a ‘fights last’ unit whether it is under the effect of
just one, or multiple, ‘fight last’ rules.
4. If a unit would be both a ‘fights first’ and a ‘fights last’ unit at
the same time, it is instead a ‘fights normally’ unit.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 18:54:58


Post by: Tiberias


I stand corrected then. Thanks for clearing this up once and for all.

So to correct my example:

If the space wolves character with armor of Russ makes it in with the thunderwolves and makes one of your three units in that example (shield guard, Trajann or Blade Champ)fight last. That basically means that the space wolves character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first.
Then the thunderwolves and your two other custodes units, who weren't fight lasted, fight normally which means you get to pick one unit first since it's not your turn. Then it's alternating.
Then the custodes unit who was fight lasted gets to fight.

Did we get there in the end?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 19:00:37


Post by: Audustum


Tiberias wrote:
I stand corrected then. Thanks for clearing this up once and for all.

So to correct my example:

If the space wolves character with armor of Russ makes it in with the thunderwolves and makes one of your three units in that example (shield guard, Trajann or Blade Champ)fight last. That basically means that the space wolves character with Armor of Russ gets to fight first.
Then the thunderwolves and your two other custodes units, who weren't fight lasted, fight normally which means you get to pick one unit first since it's not your turn. Then it's alternating.
Then the custodes unit who was fight lasted gets to fight.

Did we get there in the end?


Haha, we did!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Audustum wrote:

1st priority fights start with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.

2nd priority fights start with the player whose turn it is NOT and alternate from there.

3rd priority fights return to starting with the player whose turn it is and alternate from there.


At this point I think it would have been far easier to have an Initiative stat of 1, 2, or 3 and each of the effects described give +1/-1 to a maximum of 3 and minimum of 0.

Voidsmen are super cheap objective holders, absolutely. Even cheaper than Prosecutors.


I don't recall do the Voidsmen require a Rogue Trader in order to field them?


I really don't know Voidsmen rules, unfortunately. I'd expect Jack's list to be audited by LVO though (or at least the internet hive mind) so if it does it'll come up.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/26 23:05:54


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


The whole fight sequencing debacle has been a nightmare. I wonder how long it took the guy who designed it to pitch it to the Rules team that wrote it.

"So I fight first, because I charged?"

"Normally yes, but this unit you charged has an ability that cancels that out, and makes you fight last."

"But he has a Fights first ability"

"Sequencing doesn't stack"

"Then why do we need the rules in the first place? Just have "Always fights first Rules, or Makes Others fight Last"

"But I want to make it even more complex, so if Kharne Charges say, a Space Wolves Character with a special relic, we need a referee at the table"

"That sounds awful."

"It'll force them to buy two more books per edition, minimum"

"I'll get to work writing it right now!"


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 13:49:28


Post by: Thairne


Now in
Gravis Captains once again have more attacks than Custodes Shield Captains.
We just can't have SM being inferior for more than 2 weeks.
They also get "fighting styles" now which just translates to more attacks for specific weapon types.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:03:28


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 Thairne wrote:
Now in
Gravis Captains once again have more attacks than Custodes Shield Captains.
We just can't have SM being inferior for more than 2 weeks.
They also get "fighting styles" now which just translates to more attacks for specific weapon types.


Yeah, did you really not see that coming? Anyone wanna challenge the assertion that we are now just really expensive golden Astartes now? With weaker weapons?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:18:01


Post by: The Red Hobbit


They're giving SM fighting styles? Weird time to release that so soon after releasing Katas.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:24:50


Post by: Audustum


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
They're giving SM fighting styles? Weird time to release that so soon after releasing Katas.


Eh, they're not the same as ours. Just a bit of a name overlap. We are technically Katahs and Fighting Stances while this is just 'Gravis Fighting Style' so it's not quite the same even in naming. It's also locked to just the Captain in Gravis Armor at the moment. While I'm sure it'll spread, there's not really a lot of melee weapons on Gravis models. They're mostly guns only.

Really though, the Gravis Fighting Style is just:

An additional +2A with chainswords (a 1 damage weapon)

An additional +2A with power swords (a 1 damage weapon)

An additional +1A with a power fist (a 2 damage weapon with -1 to Hit)

Gravis Captain is 5A base so he's 8A with a chainsword, 7A with a power sword and 6A with the power first. Not really a huge deal still.

It adds that you can't use these bonuses if you use a Relic which replaces any of these weapons. You might be able to give one of them the Master-Crafted upgrade, but that's looking about it.

Full datasheet is here if you're curious:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/0Cd856c5Bsgn60gu.pdf


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:25:59


Post by: Sterling191


Audustum wrote:
You might be able to give one of them the Master-Crafted upgrade, but that's looking about it.


Baseline "Master Crafted" weapons yes, but not ones that you use the Master Crafted Special Issue Wargear pseudo-relic on.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:26:36


Post by: Audustum


Sterling191 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
You might be able to give one of them the Master-Crafted upgrade, but that's looking about it.


Baseline "Master Crafted" weapons yes, but not ones that you use the Master Crafted Special Issue Wargear pseudo-relic on.


So that makes it even less effective then. It's just some extra A on some regular weapons.

EDIT: In case anyone is curious, since it was asserted we're just weaker, gold SM, I did a 1v1 with a Shield-Captain (using an axe) and this SM (using a power fist) and it's a slap fight. 3.33 damage per-turn averaged by our Shield-Captain and 3.11 damage averaged by this new SM with his Gravis Style and a power fist.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:47:37


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


We do have weaker weapons. We don't have a single stock standard weapon option that does over 2 damage in melee for any of our non-character HQ choices. That boggles my mind. A Primaris HQ in Gravis armor should not be better, in any single aspect, than a Custodes HQ. Also, the 1v1 mathhammer is silly. What if one of them charges and gets fights first? What if one of them is a BA in the Black Rage with a Thunder Hammer? Or Red Thirst?

There are so many stupid variables that make a 1v1 no variable slap fight a impossible scenario.

In the shake out, I don't see this affecting Custodes at all. But I am miffed like a sibling watching my little brother get the exact same toy for Christmas that I just got. Even though he's been getting toys all week, and I only just got mine.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:53:47


Post by: Thairne


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
In the shake out, I don't see this affecting Custodes at all. But I am miffed like a sibling watching my little brother get the exact same toy for Christmas that I just got. Even though he's been getting toys all week, and I only just got mine.


This is exactly my feeling.
Also, this Gravis Fighting Style, as said, will spread. It will also include a "Phobos Fighting Style" and a "Tacticus Fighting Style" at some point.
Just to drive home that they not only need doctrines, chapter tactics, better weapons, more bolter shots and attacks on the charge BUT they can do what we do as well.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 14:56:35


Post by: Tiberias


Just GW jerking off Space Marines once again. It's kinda annoying, since this is for sure going to spread in new Marine releases, but at least right now our characters are better.

This just reinforces my opinion that from a design philosophy standpoint, they should have given ALL our infantry +1 wound instead of making everything cheaper. It would have been a better contrast to Space Marines, but oh well....you can't have everything and the new codex has surprisingly good internal balance so I'm happy for that.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:01:55


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We do have weaker weapons. We don't have a single stock standard weapon option that does over 2 damage in melee for any of our non-character HQ choices. That boggles my mind. A Primaris HQ in Gravis armor should not be better, in any single aspect, than a Custodes HQ. Also, the 1v1 mathhammer is silly. What if one of them charges and gets fights first? What if one of them is a BA in the Black Rage with a Thunder Hammer? Or Red Thirst?

There are so many stupid variables that make a 1v1 no variable slap fight a impossible scenario.

In the shake out, I don't see this affecting Custodes at all. But I am miffed like a sibling watching my little brother get the exact same toy for Christmas that I just got. Even though he's been getting toys all week, and I only just got mine.


Fezzik, check the data sheet. He can't have a thunder hammer. He can only have a chainsword, a power sword or a power fist. He also has no source of damage above 2 either, just like us. Indeed, two of his weapons are just 1 damage and the third is 2 damage with a -1 to Hit.

While the 1v1 was a silly diversion, it does show that the questions of 'what about a charge or a red thirst' doesn't matter because it's a wet noodle fight: neither has any reliable chance to kill the other any time soon.

It's not really infringing on our design space except that 'fighting style' and 'fighting stance' sound kind of similar. They don't really operate the same mechanically.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:03:15


Post by: Thairne


yeah, by the tightest of margins.
Its ridiculous. They keep and keep stealing and encroaching on custodes identity with every thing they put out.
As if the blow of Mining Tools surpassing Custodes gear wasnt just 2 weeks back.

It will be fun times when Codex 2.0 drops and they're not only encroaching anymore, but surpassing.
Mark my words.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:22:43


Post by: Torgroll


As a Black Templar that dude has 10!!! attacks at strength 6, - 4 ap in assault doctrine with the sword.... and im sure you can give him the +1 damage upgrade for the weapon, because it does not replace the weapon.

Dark Angel Deathwing can hit and wound infantry at 2+..... and you can give him -1 damage.

This just sucks... we don't get fearless or inbuild transhuman like Deathwing (no leadership 11 is not the same as fearless), we don't even get one - damage relic or wt outside the special shield host wt, no Bolter Dicipline for our infantry.

There is no point in lore why we shouldn't have those traits above as well, hell they should just make the point costs higher but this feels just like fancy, spoilt golden Space Marines.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:39:15


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Until our non character HQs can do more than 2 damage per weapon, I don't see how anyone can rationally justify any argument that our HQs are "fine". Yeah, the new shield rules are great, and the new Katas can be really effective in the perfect scenario, but in the shake out, 100 games from now, are we really more better off now than we were pre-9th codex? D3 was swingy, but it could induce fear and hesitation. Now with -1D being given out like candy, our Captains are essentially 1 damage Chaplains.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:40:19


Post by: Thairne


INFERIOR fancy golden space marines.
Space marines can do pretty much anything custodes can do now and better at that (hyperbole, but the hyperbole is shrinking more and more)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:48:50


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
INFERIOR fancy golden space marines.
Space marines can do pretty much anything custodes can do now and better at that (hyperbole, but the hyperbole is shrinking more and more)


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Until our non character HQs can do more than 2 damage per weapon, I don't see how anyone can rationally justify any argument that our HQs are "fine". Yeah, the new shield rules are great, and the new Katas can be really effective in the perfect scenario, but in the shake out, 100 games from now, are we really more better off now than we were pre-9th codex? D3 was swingy, but it could induce fear and hesitation. Now with -1D being given out like candy, our Captains are essentially 1 damage Chaplains.


Super hyperbole guys. Both John Lennon and Jack Harpster are taking Custodes to LVO, not Space Marines and that's before our CA point drops. There's a reason for this. We are really good.

Torgroll wrote:
As a Black Templar that dude has 9!!! attacks at strength 6 with the sword.... and im sure you can give him the +1 damage upgrade for the weapon, because it does not replace the weapon.
Dark Angel Deathwing can hit and wound infantry at 2+..... and you can give him -1 damage.

This just sucks... we don't get fearless or inbuild transhuman like Deathwing (no leadership 11 is not the same as fearless), we don't even get one - damage relic or wt outside the special shield host wt, no Bolter Dicipline for our infantry.

There is no point in lore why we shouldn't have those traits above as well, hell they should just make the point costs higher but this feels just like fancy, spoilt golden Space Marines.


Leadership 11 is arguably better than Fearless. We don't run blobs big enough where we are really in danger of morale checks, even with some debuffs (which most armies never use in a competitive setting). Leadership 11 actually helps us resist a lot of psyker abilities whereas Fearless would not.

Inbuilt Transhuman on terminators would've been nice. It's a mark but it's not going to cripple us.

Lore is the reason we don't get Bolter Discipline. GW has flat out said that Space Marines get Bolter Discipline because they drill and train with bolters specifically, as opposed to other guns, so much. Custodes are not so bolter obsessed.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 15:57:14


Post by: Torgroll


Audustum this is just wrong, Custodes train with their weapons all their life and guess what, they have a bolter inbuild in their standard variants so where is the difference especially if you have more skills and a longer life to learn more than the normal Space Marine?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 16:00:07


Post by: Audustum


Torgroll wrote:
Audustum this is just wrong, Custodes train with their weapons all their life and guess what, they have a bolter inbuild so where is the difference especially if you have more skills and a longer life to learn more than the normal Space Marine?


I'm giving you GW's line. GW's line is that Space Marines drill bolters, bolters and bolters. Custodes seem to be considered more 'well rounded'.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 16:10:49


Post by: Torgroll


Yeah, but sorry that doesn't make it more right in my opinion especially if you consider that Space Marine Scouts have it as well and we even shoot better with the boltweapons too haha... it is just a lame excuse from gw.

I mean with all that stuff like no transhuman, no fearless, no bolter dicipline, no better weapons or gear it just feels wrong for custodes.

I'm not saying we are too weak in the competitive environment but their are so many things that just doesn't make sense if you consider the special role for the custodes. Their is no point in having them around if they are only a tiny bit better then Space Marines which are multiple times their number in the end lore- and game-wise.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 16:16:43


Post by: Tiberias


Audustum wrote:
Torgroll wrote:
Audustum this is just wrong, Custodes train with their weapons all their life and guess what, they have a bolter inbuild so where is the difference especially if you have more skills and a longer life to learn more than the normal Space Marine?


I'm giving you GW's line. GW's line is that Space Marines drill bolters, bolters and bolters. Custodes seem to be considered more 'well rounded'.


The detail of Bolter Discipline or not is just semantics at this point. It is true that simply from a design perspective the line between Custodes and Marines becomes increasingly muddy, especially when you look at the statblock on the datasheet. This is in part because GW chose to put less levers into the statblock you can adjust to differentiate units and factions (like initiative or weapon skill values) and it is only exacerbated by the constant power creep. You can only differentiate so much if your statblock goes from 1-10 and you have a fixed to hit stat from +2 to +6.

Proper faction and unit differentiation and semi-good lore representation is absolutely crucial in a game and setting like 40k and that is a hill I am willing to die on. GW definitely needs to be careful about this....and people who say lore representation doesn't matter on the tabletop are full of gak because according to that logic a flat dmg4 lasgun would be totally fine if it costed 40p or something like that.

BUT when considering gameplay however we still mulch space marines with the new codex. Our characters can be kitted out to utterly stomp almost any space marine character they throw at us. Our units in combination with the shield host traits, stratagems and katas can counter most space marine units very well. We're not in a bad spot here, but GWs design philosophy utterly sucks.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 18:28:38


Post by: leerm02


Well said!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 19:43:18


Post by: nordsturmking


 Thairne wrote:
Now in
Gravis Captains once again have more attacks than Custodes Shield Captains.
We just can't have SM being inferior for more than 2 weeks.
They also get "fighting styles" now which just translates to more attacks for specific weapon types.

It is just poorly named. GW should have named it differently and no one would have seen a problem.
Although i must say the Gravis captain is pretty close to a shield captain now. give him +1 S, + 1 M, +2 Ld and he has the same profile as a Blade champion, give him a 2+ save on top and he has the same profile as a SC.

Don't get me wrong the new codex is great and I really like the new shield host but IMO the difference between a SM character and a Custodes character should be bigger.

While I was writing this I realized, at this point what could you give Custodes to separate them from SM? The Custodes profile is almost maxed out.
You can't give them more wounds because the bike cap. would be over 9 wounds.
You can't give them more Toughness because a base line of T 6 would make bikes as tough as a dreadnought and that wouldn't make sense lore wise.
More than Ld 11 is almost pointless.

All the other stats are maxed except for Attacks, Strength, Save and movement.
A 1+ save would just mean, lower all AP by 1 which would probably be powerful but not too much with the right points. Custdoes are supposed to have the best armor after all.
Strength 6 would make meaningful buffs by the weapons hard but not impossible. Although the melee weapon profiles are too similar as is.
More Attacks would be the easiest option but also not make too much of a difference.

The non character options are another story. There is still room to improve the stat line.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Torgroll wrote:
Audustum this is just wrong, Custodes train with their weapons all their life and guess what, they have a bolter inbuild so where is the difference especially if you have more skills and a longer life to learn more than the normal Space Marine?


I'm giving you GW's line. GW's line is that Space Marines drill bolters, bolters and bolters. Custodes seem to be considered more 'well rounded'.


The detail of Bolter Discipline or not is just semantics at this point. It is true that simply from a design perspective the line between Custodes and Marines becomes increasingly muddy, especially when you look at the statblock on the datasheet. This is in part because GW chose to put less levers into the statblock you can adjust to differentiate units and factions (like initiative or weapon skill values) and it is only exacerbated by the constant power creep. You can only differentiate so much if your statblock goes from 1-10 and you have a fixed to hit stat from +2 to +6.

Proper faction and unit differentiation and semi-good lore representation is absolutely crucial in a game and setting like 40k and that is a hill I am willing to die on. GW definitely needs to be careful about this....and people who say lore representation doesn't matter on the tabletop are full of gak because according to that logic a flat dmg4 lasgun would be totally fine if it costed 40p or something like that.

BUT when considering gameplay however we still mulch space marines with the new codex. Our characters can be kitted out to utterly stomp almost any space marine character they throw at us. Our units in combination with the shield host traits, stratagems and katas can counter most space marine units very well. We're not in a bad spot here, but GWs design philosophy utterly sucks.

I totally agree. i really hope the SM stats creep stops.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:04:17


Post by: xerxeskingofking


Minor point, but hes also 20 points more expensive than a shield cap. 120 vs 100/105 with misa.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:15:44


Post by: Audustum


Torgroll wrote:
Yeah, but sorry that doesn't make it more right in my opinion especially if you consider that Space Marine Scouts have it as well and we even shoot better with the boltweapons too haha... it is just a lame excuse from gw.

I mean with all that stuff like no transhuman, no fearless, no bolter dicipline, no better weapons or gear it just feels wrong for custodes.

I'm not saying we are too weak in the competitive environment but their are so many things that just doesn't make sense if you consider the special role for the custodes. Their is no point in having them around if they are only a tiny bit better then Space Marines which are multiple times their number in the end lore- and game-wise.



Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Torgroll wrote:
Audustum this is just wrong, Custodes train with their weapons all their life and guess what, they have a bolter inbuild so where is the difference especially if you have more skills and a longer life to learn more than the normal Space Marine?


I'm giving you GW's line. GW's line is that Space Marines drill bolters, bolters and bolters. Custodes seem to be considered more 'well rounded'.


The detail of Bolter Discipline or not is just semantics at this point. It is true that simply from a design perspective the line between Custodes and Marines becomes increasingly muddy, especially when you look at the statblock on the datasheet. This is in part because GW chose to put less levers into the statblock you can adjust to differentiate units and factions (like initiative or weapon skill values) and it is only exacerbated by the constant power creep. You can only differentiate so much if your statblock goes from 1-10 and you have a fixed to hit stat from +2 to +6.

Proper faction and unit differentiation and semi-good lore representation is absolutely crucial in a game and setting like 40k and that is a hill I am willing to die on. GW definitely needs to be careful about this....and people who say lore representation doesn't matter on the tabletop are full of gak because according to that logic a flat dmg4 lasgun would be totally fine if it costed 40p or something like that.

BUT when considering gameplay however we still mulch space marines with the new codex. Our characters can be kitted out to utterly stomp almost any space marine character they throw at us. Our units in combination with the shield host traits, stratagems and katas can counter most space marine units very well. We're not in a bad spot here, but GWs design philosophy utterly sucks.


Sure, look, I've been saying for awhile that Gravis creeps on our design space with T5 and 3W. You're not gonna get a fight from me there. The issue is that, despite saying things can go above 10, GW hasn't made use of that newfound freedom. If Custodes start pushing T6 and T7 on bikes, we're effectively light vehicles because that's their design space and if those push up their infringing on Knights and heavy armor. GW just has to sit down and re-do what T4, T6, T8, e.t.c. mean. Marines going up in stats helps open up design space for Guard, Eldar, GSC, e.t.c. It's just an issue that they're not using the granularity they already have at their disposal and making something like a Knight T12 so Custodes can be T6/T7 without feeling like a vehicle.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:16:42


Post by: nordsturmking


xerxeskingofking wrote:
Minor point, but hes also 20 points more expensive than a shield cap. 120 vs 100/105 with misa.

Have the points been leaked? 1PL is not really 20 points anymore. After CA 22 it is more like 17 and before it was 18 at least for the Custodes characters.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:28:05


Post by: Thairne


Even if it isnt really close, the point is - Gravis SM Captains are better and more expensive than a Custodes Shield Captain.
And that simply should not be, they shouldn't be equal, let alone more powerful!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:32:10


Post by: nordsturmking


 Thairne wrote:
Even if it isnt really close, the point is - Gravis SM Captains are better and more expensive than a Custodes Shield Captain.
And that simply should not be, they shouldn't be equal, let alone more powerful!

Yeah it really buggs me too.

GW and SM players:


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:32:37


Post by: leerm02


It's funny because I have an almost 100% proxy Custodes collection that I sometimes run as space-marines instead with everyone as gravis.

So, with the statlines being almost identical now it's really just a matter of "flavor" above anything else. I totally agree that the custodes seem a bit better at playing objectives and "tricks" (tanglefoot grenade etc), but I also really wish that they had more personality in their rules.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:57:42


Post by: Tiberias


It's a moot point now, but giving all our guys the Consummate Swordsman ability, so can't be hit on better than a 4+ in melee, would have been a cool idea imo.
So it's not exactly like permanent transhuman and would represent our guys being superlative warriors in comparison to say, Space Marines for example. All with an appropriate points increase.

But again, I'm not a game designer and I for sure don't call the shots at GW so right now we should at least be happy that our favorite faction has a good codex.

And to return to the topic of tactics: I think it's telling that there are more Custodes players (42) than Dark Eldar players (40) attending LVO.
We are surely going to get some interesting data from that event.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 20:59:30


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
Even if it isnt really close, the point is - Gravis SM Captains are better and more expensive than a Custodes Shield Captain.
And that simply should not be, they shouldn't be equal, let alone more powerful!


Whoa, whoa, what? I'll take any of our Captains over this guy any day. No way is he more powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberias wrote:
It's a moot point now, but giving all our guys the Consummate Swordsman ability, so can't be hit on better than a 4+ in melee, would have been a cool idea imo.
So it's not exactly like permanent transhuman and would represent our guys being superlative warriors in comparison to say, Space Marines for example. All with an appropriate points increase.

But again, I'm not a game designer and I for sure don't call the shots at GW so right now we should at least be happy that our favorite faction has a good codex.

And to return to the topic of tactics: I think it's telling that there are more Custodes players (42) than Dark Eldar players (40) attending LVO.
We are surely going to get some interesting data from that event.


Keep in mind too it's pre-points drop for CA and 2021 missions. One thing hurts us and one thing that allegedly helps us. I'll be curious about it too.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 21:40:34


Post by: Thairne


I mean just compare the statlines alone

5" 2+ 2+ 4 5 7 5 9 3+/4++
6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 7 6 11 2+/4++

That is uncomfortably close.

1" movement, 1 Attack, 2 LD and 1 sv.
The attacks actually pull equal shield captain stats if you equip him with a power fist at increased AP to a castellan axe, even MORE if in assault doctrine.
Then you get the slew of special rules that murk the waters even more.
Like MORE attacks if he makes the charge. More bolter shots by a significant margin (granted for 1D which cancels that out - somewhat. 1D in this meta is actually better).
In the correct doctrine, the boltstorm surpasses our "auric weapons".
And if you add things like keen senses so he actually hits on the same BS as a shield captain with the other chapter tactics, I do not see how a custodes is, by any reasonable margin, better than a SM captain.
They're at least on equal footing and that should.not.be.

The codex power level is nice but not really relevant for this discussion. I mean if you drop custodes down to 1pt/model they're obviously broken, but the point is that SM are now on a custodes level individually and are taking away the identity of the Custodes by occupying the same design space almost to a T.
Once codex 2.0 drops, you can be pretty sure a power bump will follow which WILL make SM not only the superior army statswise and model wise, but also as a competitive army.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 21:48:45


Post by: xerxeskingofking


 nordsturmking wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
Minor point, but hes also 20 points more expensive than a shield cap. 120 vs 100/105 with misa.

Have the points been leaked? 1PL is not really 20 points anymore. After CA 22 it is more like 17 and before it was 18 at least for the Custodes characters.


its on the PDF with the new datasheets, so not so much leaked as annouced. (bottom left of page 2)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 22:03:06


Post by: nordsturmking


xerxeskingofking wrote:
 nordsturmking wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
Minor point, but hes also 20 points more expensive than a shield cap. 120 vs 100/105 with misa.

Have the points been leaked? 1PL is not really 20 points anymore. After CA 22 it is more like 17 and before it was 18 at least for the Custodes characters.


its on the PDF with the new datasheets, so not so much leaked as annouced. (bottom left of page 2)

Ah ok i see. Hm thats a bit odd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Thairne wrote:
I mean just compare the statlines alone

5" 2+ 2+ 4 5 7 5 9 3+/4++
6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 7 6 11 2+/4++

That is uncomfortably close.

1" movement, 1 Attack, 2 LD and 1 sv.
The attacks actually pull equal shield captain stats if you equip him with a power fist at increased AP to a castellan axe, even MORE if in assault doctrine.
Then you get the slew of special rules that murk the waters even more.
Like MORE attacks if he makes the charge. More bolter shots by a significant margin (granted for 1D which cancels that out - somewhat. 1D in this meta is actually better).
In the correct doctrine, the boltstorm surpasses our "auric weapons".
And if you add things like keen senses so he actually hits on the same BS as a shield captain with the other chapter tactics, I do not see how a custodes is, by any reasonable margin, better than a SM captain.
They're at least on equal footing and that should.not.be.

The codex power level is nice but not really relevant for this discussion. I mean if you drop custodes down to 1pt/model they're obviously broken, but the point is that SM are now on a custodes level individually and are taking away the identity of the Custodes by occupying the same design space almost to a T.
Once codex 2.0 drops, you can be pretty sure a power bump will follow which WILL make SM not only the superior army statswise and model wise, but also as a competitive army.

Yes the stats creep needs to stop. Did you see my post where i comment on your first post on the new gravis cap? In case you didn't here the part i wrote about the stats creep:

Although i must say the Gravis captain is pretty close to a shield captain now. give him +1 S, + 1 M, +2 Ld and he has the same profile as a Blade champion, give him a 2+ save on top and he has the same profile as a SC.
Don't get me wrong the new codex is great and I really like the new shield host but IMO the difference between a SM character and a Custodes character should be bigger.
While I was writing this I realized, at this point what could you give Custodes to separate them from SM? The Custodes profile is almost maxed out.
You can't give them more wounds because the bike cap. would be over 9 wounds.
You can't give them more Toughness because a base line of T 6 would make bikes as tough as a dreadnought and that wouldn't make sense lore wise.
More than Ld 11 is almost pointless.

All the other stats are maxed except for Attacks, Strength, Save and movement.
A 1+ save would just mean, lower all AP by 1 which would probably be powerful but not too much with the right points. Custdoes are supposed to have the best armor after all.
Strength 6 would make meaningful buffs by the weapons hard but not impossible. Although the melee weapon profiles are too similar as is.
More Attacks would be the easiest option but also not make too much of a difference.

The non character options are another story. There is still room to improve the stat line.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/27 22:12:34


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So our Custodes Blademaster may turn out to be the best melee HQ in the game, he is quickly turning me around. I was wrong to doubt his power. My only concern is that he's a Telemon. Opponents know what he is and what he can do, and will devote a lot to downing him. That leaves my character killing and chaff clearing up to bikes, right? Is it a viable strategy to use a Bike Captain, Trajaan, and a Blademaster? With the Blademaster playing Distraction Carnifex?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 01:10:22


Post by: Eihnlazer


Blade champ is just that. He's a distraction. He does nothing for your army except present himself a target, either for avoidance, or to gun for.

He doesnt buff you army, and he doesnt solo squads of elites by himself. He doesnt have particularily great mobility, and he isnt amazingly duable (though he is pretty tanky one on one).


You wont see him in my lists........


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 02:12:49


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Tiberias wrote:
It's a moot point now, but giving all our guys the Consummate Swordsman ability, so can't be hit on better than a 4+ in melee, would have been a cool idea imo.
So it's not exactly like permanent transhuman and would represent our guys being superlative warriors in comparison to say, Space Marines for example. All with an appropriate points increase.


I actually would like that quite a bit, Custodes are often noted in the BL as being a class about when it comes to hand-to-hand combat with other mortals so a 4+ Hit in Melee would have been great and really distinguish us. Maybe in 10th edition


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 02:18:06


Post by: cuda1179


Custodes need dueling rules to set them apart. They should give an addition mortal wound on 6's to wound.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 06:36:51


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


So what's the verdict on troops, spears or sword&board???


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 09:28:30


Post by: Thairne


S&B or Saggitarum so far, it looks like is the current choice.

Im sorry to hug this thread, but that's its purpose - tactics
The map/mission for the game tomorrow game is set.

GT 11, Retrieval Mission
Pending Terrain and deployment, my plan is as follows:
Auric Mortalis, Engage, Assassinat/no Prisoners. Mission secondary is a no go since its gonna be darn bloody.
I pretty much know there will be 5 Wolves with TH, so those will be the Mortalis target. I cannot allow them to make more than one fighting phase or I'll collapse quickly, so thats not a win more, its a "have a chance to win"

Deployment looks like this:
1 Squad of Sisters on each side of the HO to score engage T1 (I expect to lose them due to a DS of blood claws in a pod T2 at the latest. Again, nothing I can do about that).
If I move just 1" out of my deploy on "my" objectives, that puts me 23" away from his deployment - that should put him on a 9" charge even if he advances 6". If he makes THAT, since I probably cant tanglefoot them, that would suck, but nothing I can do against. I really want that one round of shooting though. Also would require him to commit to a flank (where I definitely might well redeploy the blademaster to with the Oubliette) instead of holding the wolves in the middle and pick&choose. One shield squad each with Blade Master/Trajann as support. Bikes will redeploy with Castellans Mark if needed to get LoS with advance/shoot Katah to whittle down the Wolves. Vexila goes where wolfs deploy to shore up that side (possibly with Castellans).
Then we'll slog it out and see who comes off as the winner, then roll up with the bikes to take objs from him.

Katahs: Calistus, Dactarai, Kaptaris

Sounds reasonable as a pregame plan?

[Thumb - Neue Bitmap.jpg]


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 12:30:58


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I really don't see the value of +1 armor and extra cost, over the value of relic bolters and S7 melee, for less cost?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 12:51:51


Post by: Thairne


Praesidium Shield Wall
-1 to hit on demand is nice and ups the survivability of the squad, especially when you KNOW you're going against a melee army.
Also S6->S7 is not that big of an improvement (plus I only have 9 Shield bois and 9 sagittarum)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 12:57:51


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I guess it matters less that we lost the Spear strat, and the shoot twice strat. But I still say the ability to wound S7 things on a 4+ is good, being able to plink away wounds with relic bolters is also nice. Being able to get -1 to hit in melee for 1 cp isn't worth the extra cost.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 13:25:13


Post by: Thairne


if it saves 45 pts from keeling over, it is.
Also, its not like you lose all shooting. You lose 1 S4 -1 D2 shot between 12" and 24" and gain the ability to pistol ship the muggers in combat.
The strength difference is there, and while I agree that shields should honestly be free for the tradeoffs, I see merit in both loadouts depending on what you go for.
In my case, I want to hold midfield objectives against a fast and durable melee army. Spears dont help me with that, shields can.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 13:53:09


Post by: Tiberias


I like mixed MSU squads with one shield. All shields are a good choice still, it's just that spears became more viable instead of being a non-choice.

The game plan looks good and you get extra points from me for picking auric mortalis.

But if my memory serves, Assassinate and Auric Mortalis share a category, so you can't pick both.

Engage is nice, but are you mobile enough? You want to face him in the midfield anyway, maybe Domination would even be easier to do, since it plays into your game plan anyway.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 14:31:37


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
I mean just compare the statlines alone

5" 2+ 2+ 4 5 7 5 9 3+/4++
6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 7 6 11 2+/4++

That is uncomfortably close.

1" movement, 1 Attack, 2 LD and 1 sv.
The attacks actually pull equal shield captain stats if you equip him with a power fist at increased AP to a castellan axe, even MORE if in assault doctrine.
Then you get the slew of special rules that murk the waters even more.
Like MORE attacks if he makes the charge. More bolter shots by a significant margin (granted for 1D which cancels that out - somewhat. 1D in this meta is actually better).
In the correct doctrine, the boltstorm surpasses our "auric weapons".
And if you add things like keen senses so he actually hits on the same BS as a shield captain with the other chapter tactics, I do not see how a custodes is, by any reasonable margin, better than a SM captain.
They're at least on equal footing and that should.not.be.

The codex power level is nice but not really relevant for this discussion. I mean if you drop custodes down to 1pt/model they're obviously broken, but the point is that SM are now on a custodes level individually and are taking away the identity of the Custodes by occupying the same design space almost to a T.
Once codex 2.0 drops, you can be pretty sure a power bump will follow which WILL make SM not only the superior army statswise and model wise, but also as a competitive army.



To quibble in my own defense; 'close' isn't the same as 'clearly better' which is what I was arguing against.

That said, if you're going to bring in all of his special bonuses and stratagems, then you have to bring in ours too. Shutting off re-rolls, Tanglefooting (non-SW), Transhuman (for both of them), not getting a -1 to Hit on our 2 damage weapon, free re-roll to hit/wound or always fight first and ignore hit/wound modifiers, all the Katahs, e.t.c. I think our guy is still clearly above the SM captain even if we go down this route.

Also, it's begun. Reddit has started getting front page posts calling for us to be nerfed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/se9mkf/getting_ahead_of_this_before_the_lvo_results/


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 14:33:49


Post by: Thairne


I mean auric is just "get VP for eliminating TWC" which I desperately NEED to do anyway, so I get double rewarded

Looking at the map... it could. All it requires is taking/holding my objective in the midfield and use the bikes to zoom onto his.
You're right tho, Auric and Assassinate are the same category.
I assume by domination you mean Strangehold? That could be possible as well.
Raise is pretty off though with only 1 obj in the homezone, the middle is to easily contested for that - and quite a bit too slow.

So Auric, Supremacy (this one really scares me though) and maybe still Raise. I will be able to raise 3 Banners first turn, and even if I lose one, thats still 10 pts if I dont get one back from him.


Edit: I lost it when the reddit post claims we can flood the board


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 15:41:50


Post by: Audustum


 Thairne wrote:
S&B or Saggitarum so far, it looks like is the current choice.

Im sorry to hug this thread, but that's its purpose - tactics
The map/mission for the game tomorrow game is set.

GT 11, Retrieval Mission
Pending Terrain and deployment, my plan is as follows:
Auric Mortalis, Engage, Assassinat/no Prisoners. Mission secondary is a no go since its gonna be darn bloody.
I pretty much know there will be 5 Wolves with TH, so those will be the Mortalis target. I cannot allow them to make more than one fighting phase or I'll collapse quickly, so thats not a win more, its a "have a chance to win"

Deployment looks like this:
1 Squad of Sisters on each side of the HO to score engage T1 (I expect to lose them due to a DS of blood claws in a pod T2 at the latest. Again, nothing I can do about that).
If I move just 1" out of my deploy on "my" objectives, that puts me 23" away from his deployment - that should put him on a 9" charge even if he advances 6". If he makes THAT, since I probably cant tanglefoot them, that would suck, but nothing I can do against. I really want that one round of shooting though. Also would require him to commit to a flank (where I definitely might well redeploy the blademaster to with the Oubliette) instead of holding the wolves in the middle and pick&choose. One shield squad each with Blade Master/Trajann as support. Bikes will redeploy with Castellans Mark if needed to get LoS with advance/shoot Katah to whittle down the Wolves. Vexila goes where wolfs deploy to shore up that side (possibly with Castellans).
Then we'll slog it out and see who comes off as the winner, then roll up with the bikes to take objs from him.

Katahs: Calistus, Dactarai, Kaptaris

Sounds reasonable as a pregame plan?


Let's break this down.

GT2021 Retrieval, right? That's not a bad one. If you're using the list you posted before:

1. Engage is solid for you. You've got 2 squads of Jetbikes and a Jetbike captain. You should be able to be where you need to be to get points. I'd be careful with Stranglehold because he has access to Transhuman and that can be an issue (i.e. he can crowd up, buff up and deny your ability to blow off objectives). Engage is generally a safer path because there's no counterplay from your opponent when you have 14" FLY models.

2. Assassinate is probably better than Auric here. His characters are his lynchpin and you throw him into a tough choice: does he use them and put them in danger (since they're close range) or hide them and keep them safe to deny you points? Either way, you have a clear idea of what to do with them. Auric is dangerous because, assuming the TWC are what qualifies, you're likely to lose some points when they kill things and he can ram them towards your DZ to deny more points.

3. Retrieval's secondary is almost always a trap for everybody. You're making the right call there. I don't like Supremacy here either because this map is easy to stalemate 2-2 on mid-field objectives. In your shoes, I'd take Raise or ROD.

4. Calistus is solid. If you go first, use Stance 1 and get positioned (somewhere safe but further up). If you go second, maybe try Stance 2 and blast him. I'd probably put Kaptaris second over Dacatarai. You want the 'no re-rolls' to blunt the initial collision of the two armies.

5. The jetbikes can work as a responsive unit and move from center positioning to whatever flank the TWC choose. You out number him and can soften them up with shooting.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 15:53:24


Post by: Thairne


Excellent points. Many thanks!
I'll be sure to report how it goes (hopefully in ma favour )


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 17:03:57


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Best of luck in your game should be a fun matchup!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 18:20:49


Post by: iGuy91


Got an RTT coming up. Trying to decide between my recently buffed Necrons, and my as of yet untested Custodes with the new dex. Was thinking of this list. Thoughts?

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++
Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +
Blade Champion [7 PL, -2CP, 120pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Eagle's Eye, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games
Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 160pts] WARLORD

+ Troops +
Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +
Allarus Custodians [12 PL, 240pts]
. 4x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia: 4x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 4x Castellan Axe, 4x Misericordia

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter, Stratagem: Eternal Penitent
Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Defensor

+ Fast Attack +
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 275pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 18:22:37


Post by: Audustum


 iGuy91 wrote:
Got an RTT coming up. Trying to decide between my recently buffed Necrons, and my as of yet untested Custodes with the new dex. Was thinking of this list. Thoughts?

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++
Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +
Blade Champion [7 PL, -2CP, 120pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Eagle's Eye, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games
Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 160pts] WARLORD

+ Troops +
Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +
Allarus Custodians [12 PL, 240pts]
. 4x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia: 4x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 4x Castellan Axe, 4x Misericordia

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter, Stratagem: Eternal Penitent
Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Defensor

+ Fast Attack +
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 275pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++



The only real critique is that, in the theorizing we have to go on right now, a 4-man Allarus squad just isn't considered that useful, the Blade Champion is generally considered inferior to a jetbike Captain (a solid guy, just outclassed by commander McBike) and the Telemon is considered iffy. That's all just theory though because we don't have much real world data yet. Otherwise looks strong!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 18:36:27


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


In response to the Redditors:

1. Trajann definately under costed. Needs to be 180+ for what he brings to the table.
2. Bikes are not OP in the current Meta, only against crappy lists that don't plan for vehicles. Bikes are literally one of our dumbest units right now, next to Allarus or Andrastite spear guardians. Plus they don't even have Obsec. Not sure where they're getting this "Double Obsec" nonsense from.
3. Custodes getting nerfed out of the gate might actually be a good thing. It would force GW to take a second look at us and give us proper weapons, i.e. 3 damage axes!
4. 4++ against MWs on a single sub faction being a gripe is about the clearest proof that this whole thing is a troll. Most people are going shadowkeepers, and the 4++ is rarely a deciding factor, unless you are playing GK, TS, or Eldar. In which case, get fethed.

We are no where near top of the Meta, but we should have better axes, bikes, and faction bonuses.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 20:44:44


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
In response to the Redditors:

1. Trajann definately under costed. Needs to be 180+ for what he brings to the table.
2. Bikes are not OP in the current Meta, only against crappy lists that don't plan for vehicles. Bikes are literally one of our dumbest units right now, next to Allarus or Andrastite spear guardians. Plus they don't even have Obsec. Not sure where they're getting this "Double Obsec" nonsense from.
3. Custodes getting nerfed out of the gate might actually be a good thing. It would force GW to take a second look at us and give us proper weapons, i.e. 3 damage axes!
4. 4++ against MWs on a single sub faction being a gripe is about the clearest proof that this whole thing is a troll. Most people are going shadowkeepers, and the 4++ is rarely a deciding factor, unless you are playing GK, TS, or Eldar. In which case, get fethed.

We are no where near top of the Meta, but we should have better axes, bikes, and faction bonuses.


How are bikes dumb? I mean, they're superbly good. If anything, I'd say their only major design flaw is that they are too good at too many roles simultaneously, thus throwing off internal Codex balance.

I think most are taking Emperor's Chosen because the free re-roll works so well into MSU, but there's no stats yet unless someone has really been combing the LVO lists.

I'd still take Trajann at 200 but I hope it doesn't come to that.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 21:27:50


Post by: Tiberias


I really hope we won't perform too well at LVO. It takes some time for the meta to settle, the new missions are going to change quite a bit....but if the AoW guys place well with custodes now at LVO, the redditors are immediately going to screech nerf.

Trajann at 160p is pushing it though, I don't think anyone can deny that.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 21:41:03


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Lets be honest, Trajann is still an auto take at 200. He outperforms every named character in his league right now. Not counting lords of war or monster characters. Although I'd love to see him get more like Bobby G, which even the fluff hints at him being a match for martially.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 22:39:15


Post by: Torgroll


Well i think he should just kick ass because he is the Captain General otherwise it would just be a joke... i mean if a "normal" human like Morvenn Vahl even with her suit can kick ass why should he not... .
I think not a few guys at reddit don't even know the full rules of the actual Custodes if i look at their comments... .

If he is performs to well for his points just make them higher.

@FezzikDaBullgryn
Did you make your own Blade-Champion miniature?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/28 23:18:30


Post by: The Red Hobbit


 iGuy91 wrote:
Got an RTT coming up. Trying to decide between my recently buffed Necrons, and my as of yet untested Custodes with the new dex. Was thinking of this list. Thoughts?

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++
Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +
Blade Champion [7 PL, -2CP, 120pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Eagle's Eye, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games
Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 160pts] WARLORD

+ Troops +
Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun
Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +
Allarus Custodians [12 PL, 240pts]
. 4x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe & Misericordia: 4x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 4x Castellan Axe, 4x Misericordia

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 160pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter, Stratagem: Eternal Penitent
Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Defensor

+ Fast Attack +
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 255pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [14 PL, 275pts]: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus

++ Total: [101 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++



SoS are great for cheap ObSec but they're far less durable so you may have some issues with staying power and keeping your backfield objective holders alive. Me personally I'd drop the Terminators & possibly Telemon for more Custodian Guard Squads to push forward with Trajann and the Blade Champion. You can also add in a Knight Centura with the Silent Judge trait to flip objectives.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 06:21:58


Post by: stratigo


Tiberias wrote:
I really hope we won't perform too well at LVO. It takes some time for the meta to settle, the new missions are going to change quite a bit....but if the AoW guys place well with custodes now at LVO, the redditors are immediately going to screech nerf.

Trajann at 160p is pushing it though, I don't think anyone can deny that.


day 1, Custodes is the top list so far. Its a triple dreadnought list

Gone into death guard, which is sadly a gimme, goffs with ghazkul and triple killrigs, which is a tougher matchup, but I think dreadnoughts are a pretty good counter, and then deathwing. Poor deathwing.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 09:08:12


Post by: Eihnlazer


Custodes isnt top. Drukari still have that title. We have 15 undefeated players out of 60? that took custodes, which is above average but not top faction yet.

John lennon lost round 1 against crusher stampede cause its a very tough matchup as well so he's out of the running to win it all.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 11:04:48


Post by: heru91


I played last night against new tau and i was tabled at turn 3. It was a nightimare.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 15:07:22


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I love that despite every theory crafted here, on what is essentially the Sports Radio of 40k, a tripple Dread list is still the top competitor.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 16:02:47


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I love that despite every theory crafted here, on what is essentially the Sports Radio of 40k, a tripple Dread list is still the top competitor.


It's only R3. Let's see if he out performs Harpster and Lennon by the end.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 16:27:17


Post by: Rivener


stratigo wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
I really hope we won't perform too well at LVO. It takes some time for the meta to settle, the new missions are going to change quite a bit....but if the AoW guys place well with custodes now at LVO, the redditors are immediately going to screech nerf.

Trajann at 160p is pushing it though, I don't think anyone can deny that.


day 1, Custodes is the top list so far. Its a triple dreadnought list

Gone into death guard, which is sadly a gimme, goffs with ghazkul and triple killrigs, which is a tougher matchup, but I think dreadnoughts are a pretty good counter, and then deathwing. Poor deathwing.


Poor Deathwing? Personally I think they’re one of our worst matchups. They basically out tank us point for point, and their Knights are perfect for wiping us on the counter strike. They pack D3 and damage reduction, plus a fantastic psychic discipline, which we notably lack. Everything has counterplay, obviously, but in a slugfest they’re just plain excellent into us.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 17:34:44


Post by: Thairne


So a bit of feedback for my game today.
It was a total stomp. Like oof-levels of stomping.
And I did the stomping.
I mean his list was pretty bad in the first place, which he admitted to, but man.
Bikes picked up every TWC with salvos in T1.
After that,it was literally just clean up of marines, getting shot and chopped to little pieces.
Had him tabled Turn 3 and scored a total of 95 to 22. And the last 5 were only missing because there were only 3 characters to kill.
Didnt lose a single unit.

The Blade Champ felt like TOTAL overkill in a shadowkeepers list btw.
Might be the game, but once I go to 2k, I honestly think Allarus Cap in Praetorian Plate is the better choice.
Beefy enough and if required Lockwarden is still available. Will have to see if this pattern repeats though.
Besides that, remove Vexila, add Galatus/Achillus/Telemon and one has a pretty mixed, fluffy, fun list to play around.




Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: 2x Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 3. Superior Creation, 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Unstoppable Destroyer

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: 5. Radiant Mantle, Castellan's Mark, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus


Funnily enough, you actually run out of good WLTs to give the Dawneagle Captain...


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 18:43:56


Post by: Tiberias


heru91 wrote:I played last night against new tau and i was tabled at turn 3. It was a nightimare.


Oh geez, what happened exactly? What were some aspects of Tau that were especially bad.

Thairne wrote:So a bit of feedback for my game today.
It was a total stomp. Like oof-levels of stomping.
And I did the stomping.
I mean his list was pretty bad in the first place, which he admitted to, but man.
Bikes picked up every TWC with salvos in T1.
After that,it was literally just clean up of marines, getting shot and chopped to little pieces.
Had him tabled Turn 3 and scored a total of 95 to 22. And the last 5 were only missing because there were only 3 characters to kill.
Didnt lose a single unit.

The Blade Champ felt like TOTAL overkill in a shadowkeepers list btw.
Might be the game, but once I go to 2k, I honestly think Allarus Cap in Praetorian Plate is the better choice.
Beefy enough and if required Lockwarden is still available. Will have to see if this pattern repeats though.
Besides that, remove Vexila, add Galatus/Achillus/Telemon and one has a pretty mixed, fluffy, fun list to play around.




Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ Stratagems +

Stratagem: Open the Vaults: 2x Additional Relics

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor: 3. Superior Creation, 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Unstoppable Destroyer

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike: 5. Radiant Mantle, Castellan's Mark, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Prosecutors: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

+ Heavy Support +

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought: Arachnus Storm Cannon
. Telemon Caestus


Funnily enough, you actually run out of good WLTs to give the Dawneagle Captain...


Glad you had a fun game and you were able to deal with the thunder wolves. Hope your friend wasn't having a bad time.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 18:46:15


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Ouch, sounds like a rough game for the Space Wolves player. Always hard when a few bad rolls in Round 1 means losing a costly part of your army.

Glad to hear your Custodes performed well.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 19:03:44


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


How did you hill off his Tunderwolf cav turn 1 with bikes? I'd be interested in what size board you were playing and who went first? I mean, it sounds like he took a super weak list. Do I recall correctly that he was taking two full squads of TWC?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 19:04:21


Post by: Audustum


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Ouch, sounds like a rough game for the Space Wolves player. Always hard when a few bad rolls in Round 1 means losing a costly part of your army.

Glad to hear your Custodes performed well.


This is one of the few things that actually can separate good and great 40k players. You need to build 'I will roll awful' into your plan and make sure you've developed a conceivable path of victory even when it happens. Stil might not work, but it's something you have to work in to your strategy.

Glad the match went well for you, Thairne!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How did you hill off his Tunderwolf cav turn 1 with bikes? I'd be interested in what size board you were playing and who went first? I mean, it sounds like he took a super weak list. Do I recall correctly that he was taking two full squads of TWC?


I think it was 5 TWC and Thairne was taking 6 Jetbikes and a Jetbike Captain. So yeah, a little luck and you can do it.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 19:28:26


Post by: Thairne


The Red Hobbit wrote:Ouch, sounds like a rough game for the Space Wolves player. Always hard when a few bad rolls in Round 1 means losing a costly part of your army.

Glad to hear your Custodes performed well.


Luckily he went into the game fully expecting to lose.
His strategy was, I kid you not, to lose so badly that I felt bad for winning while he was just getting his expectations fulfilled so that he "won" still
So he had more fun than I did (though the satisfaction was REAL).

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:How did you hill off his Tunderwolf cav turn 1 with bikes? I'd be interested in what size board you were playing and who went first? I mean, it sounds like he took a super weak list. Do I recall correctly that he was taking two full squads of TWC?


It was a full 6'x4' board. I was Defender/had first turn.
I have a picture of the beginning of T1... somewhere... together with one end of T3.
Essentially he was deploying aggressively because no matter what he did, I would get in a full round of shooting on the TWC.
I had actually more drops than he did due to reserves and transport, so I had 7 bikes waiting for his TWC to deploy.
All shots went into them (4 TWC this time) and he didnt make a single save while I made all wounds with Trajann support.

Audustum wrote:

This is one of the few things that actually can separate good and great 40k players. You need to build 'I will roll awful' into your plan and make sure you've developed a conceivable path of victory even when it happens. Stil might not work, but it's something you have to work in to your strategy.

Glad the match went well for you, Thairne!

I think it was 5 TWC and Thairne was taking 6 Jetbikes and a Jetbike Captain. So yeah, a little luck and you can do it.


Biggest issue this time is that I went with a pretty much optimized list (unless you count Voidsman at arms and other shenanigans) into a... I dont actually know what he planned to do list. It was basically all all infantry and the TWC. And on that level, Custodes Jetbikes trample all over that.
It was a pretty large power discrepancy. At 2k things would have shaken out differently because that would allow him some more heavy shooting (Stormfang, Gladiator, Eradicators etc), but my 2k list, posted above, can deal with that with threat overload.

[Thumb - 20220129_144216.jpg]
[Thumb - 20220129_155733.jpg]


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 23:43:19


Post by: Eihnlazer


round 5 results coming in from LVO. 4 undefeated stode players atm. Jack harpster is smashing hard with an almost perfect score.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/29 23:55:32


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Expect nerfs the incomming.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 02:18:13


Post by: Salt donkey


Well here’s a good example of why it isn’t a good idea to whine about your codex before it’s released. Was hoping we wouldn’t be this good, as I’m worried Tau and craftworlds will be worse. Then again, we still deserve nerfs let’s be honest.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 02:35:37


Post by: leerm02


Eh, I think the "whining" that most people are complaining about is really just that a lot of us wanted our faction to be different than how they chose to represent it.

I think the thing we got is quite powerful, very nuanced, and absolutely not the style of play that I'm looking for.

Custodes went from being my absolutely simplest faction to play, for when I didn't want to invest a lot of mental energy and just go "pew pew! I'm a bunch of cool dudes!", to now, where it's... well, considerably more complicated than that.

Again: I'm not saying what we have is BAD, I suspect we are going to be seeing a lot of wins out there to disprove that notion, what I'm saying is that it's not the way that I wanted the faction to be represented.

I wanted really simple Star-Wars esque pew-pew, and what I got was really complicated and nuanced Literary Sci-fi esque deep dive into what it means to subvert expectations, foil entrenched systems and tactically achieve "victory."

Not BAD, but definitely different. That's all.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 03:42:58


Post by: Audustum


Salt donkey wrote:
Well here’s a good example of why it isn’t a good idea to whine about your codex before it’s released. Was hoping we wouldn’t be this good, as I’m worried Tau and craftworlds will be worse. Then again, we still deserve nerfs let’s be honest.


We deserve no such thing except maybe some points on Trajann.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 03:50:09


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I feel a similar way, I think what we have is very good but its not exactly the playstyle I was hoping for. The simplicity of Custodes is what drew me in initially since it was a great army for pickup games with minimal prep. I was hoping they'd test the waters with Custodes by seeing if people would prefer an army without a doctrine equivalent but ah well.

Katas are by no means difficult to use, just another layer on the rules onion to remember.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 04:27:40


Post by: Eihnlazer


Ok, so final count at the end of round 6 is 10 undefeated players. 2 of which are custodes. They are doing a shadow round with 5-12 spots to find out the top 8 for tommorows Finale.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 05:52:59


Post by: stratigo


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Custodes isnt top. Drukari still have that title. We have 15 undefeated players out of 60? that took custodes, which is above average but not top faction yet.

John lennon lost round 1 against crusher stampede cause its a very tough matchup as well so he's out of the running to win it all.


A custodes list was the top of table one as of the end of round 3 with 100/100/98 point wins. But it didn’t go into drukhari or crusher yet

As of round 6 he has beaten 2 drukhari builds, at a much more narrow margin (only a 5 point difference against one) and a custodrs mirror

So Evan Tomchin is doing pretty darn well with the book as it stands. He’s currently in position 6 (and thus likely a shoe in for the final day, but 6 likely ends up in shadow rounds, so maybe not)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 07:49:02


Post by: Eihnlazer


Evan and the Shadowkeepers guy won in the shadow round so will be in the top 8.

Seigler is still favored to win the whole thing though.



Shadowkeepers seems to hard counter other custodes lists it seems.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 08:44:55


Post by: Audustum


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Evan and the Shadowkeepers guy won in the shadow round so will be in the top 8.

Seigler is still favored to win the whole thing though.



Shadowkeepers seems to hard counter other custodes lists it seems.


There's sn Emperor's Chosen in the top 8 with him, but I can see why Shadowkeepers would be strong into a mirror. We do a fair amount with characters, fight last hurts and the -1S hits a lot of break points when we try to wound ourselves.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 09:15:42


Post by: Salt donkey


leerm02 wrote:
Eh, I think the "whining" that most people are complaining about is really just that a lot of us wanted our faction to be different than how they chose to represent it.

I think the thing we got is quite powerful, very nuanced, and absolutely not the style of play that I'm looking for.

Custodes went from being my absolutely simplest faction to play, for when I didn't want to invest a lot of mental energy and just go "pew pew! I'm a bunch of cool dudes!", to now, where it's... well, considerably more complicated than that.

Again: I'm not saying what we have is BAD, I suspect we are going to be seeing a lot of wins out there to disprove that notion, what I'm saying is that it's not the way that I wanted the faction to be represented.

I wanted really simple Star-Wars esque pew-pew, and what I got was really complicated and nuanced Literary Sci-fi esque deep dive into what it means to subvert expectations, foil entrenched systems and tactically achieve "victory."

Not BAD, but definitely different. That's all.


Going to respond to this message, but I’m also going to indirectly hit on on some posts around this as well.
When the codex was first fully leaked the complaints I saw where as follows;

A) Not enough access to non-D2 weapons/ ways to ignore -1 D.
B) Ka’tahs didn’t accurately represent individual fighting styles custodes had/ were too similar to necron protocols. (Underlying these complaints were that Ka’tahs were too weak)
C) lost a bunch of good/flavorful stratagems we used to have.

Bonus D) not really a major complaint because people expected it, but many implied wanting a huge compensation for losing 3++.

First, I’m going to address your main point. Quite frankly, if you are annoyed that your army requires more skill/memorization to play competitively , then please stop playing competitively. Thairne just proved that this army can easily win in a casual setting .Competitive AOS players are in uproar because the “ meta” lists don’t require much thought. Why should 40k be similar? I can’t imagine what more you want from an army besides being able to win at a casual level with proper list building and being able to win at competitive levels with skill and good list building.

As far as addressing the 3 major complaints pre-release;

A) -1 D effects don’t hurt us that much seeing as 2 custodes list made it the top 8 of LVO (where -1 D tyranids and DE are quite common)

B) Ka’tahs are much better in practice than many theory hammer proponents expected. There are a lot of meaningful decisions here and can even be customized further on a more individual basis thanks to the strat.

C) A lot of the “flavorful” strats we lost where either 1) not actually that good outside of gotcha moment (swooping dive, teleport homers) or 2) were OP and boring in certain contexts (double shooting venatari, having terminators ignore -1 and -2 AP against the armies that used them).

D) Yeah we really needed those 3++ units. Now custodes have to settle for 2/8 top spots in biggest tournament of the world rather than the clean sweep of 8/8.

I guess maybe I just liked the “stand near-invincible guys on objectives and hope you survive” style of play less than some of you. Regardless our army is very clearly strong right now


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 09:27:59


Post by: stratigo


the two top custodes lists rely on dreadnoughts. Which remained the best units in our roster. The shadowkeeper list surprised me by dropping the bikes for a pair of calladius. I hate the calladius and love bikes, so I hope this doesn't stick, but Ean has 3 dreads (a galatus and 2 achilles) while the shadowkeeper has 2 galatus.

Dreadnoughts get around the 2 damage limitation. And so, functionally, do calladius and bike shooting. That 2 damage limit is what holds us back, so as long as forgeworld 3 or more damage choices remain viable, there's a path forward

Tau might shut that down. They kill tanks gud


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 10:01:41


Post by: Tiberias


Salt donkey wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Eh, I think the "whining" that most people are complaining about is really just that a lot of us wanted our faction to be different than how they chose to represent it.

I think the thing we got is quite powerful, very nuanced, and absolutely not the style of play that I'm looking for.

Custodes went from being my absolutely simplest faction to play, for when I didn't want to invest a lot of mental energy and just go "pew pew! I'm a bunch of cool dudes!", to now, where it's... well, considerably more complicated than that.

Again: I'm not saying what we have is BAD, I suspect we are going to be seeing a lot of wins out there to disprove that notion, what I'm saying is that it's not the way that I wanted the faction to be represented.

I wanted really simple Star-Wars esque pew-pew, and what I got was really complicated and nuanced Literary Sci-fi esque deep dive into what it means to subvert expectations, foil entrenched systems and tactically achieve "victory."

Not BAD, but definitely different. That's all.


Going to respond to this message, but I’m also going to indirectly hit on on some posts around this as well.
When the codex was first fully leaked the complaints I saw where as follows;

A) Not enough access to non-D2 weapons/ ways to ignore -1 D.
B) Ka’tahs didn’t accurately represent individual fighting styles custodes had/ were too similar to necron protocols. (Underlying these complaints were that Ka’tahs were too weak)
C) lost a bunch of good/flavorful stratagems we used to have.

Bonus D) not really a major complaint because people expected it, but many implied wanting a huge compensation for losing 3++.

First, I’m going to address your main point. Quite frankly, if you are annoyed that your army requires more skill/memorization to play competitively , then please stop playing competitively. Thairne just proved that this army can easily win in a casual setting .Competitive AOS players are in uproar because the “ meta” lists don’t require much thought. Why should 40k be similar? I can’t imagine what more you want from an army besides being able to win at a casual level with proper list building and being able to win at competitive levels with skill and good list building.

As far as addressing the 3 major complaints pre-release;

A) -1 D effects don’t hurt us that much seeing as 2 custodes list made it the top 8 of LVO (where -1 D tyranids and DE are quite common)

B) Ka’tahs are much better in practice than many theory hammer proponents expected. There are a lot of meaningful decisions here and can even be customized further on a more individual basis thanks to the strat.

C) A lot of the “flavorful” strats we lost where either 1) not actually that good outside of gotcha moment (swooping dive, teleport homers) or 2) were OP and boring in certain contexts (double shooting venatari, having terminators ignore -1 and -2 AP against the armies that used them).

D) Yeah we really needed those 3++ units. Now custodes have to settle for 2/8 top spots in biggest tournament of the world rather than the clean sweep of 8/8.

I guess maybe I just liked the “stand near-invincible guys on objectives and hope you survive” style of play less than some of you. Regardless our army is very clearly strong right now


People underestimated the Codex before release, but isn't it quite a bit hypocritical of you to call for nerfs based on one tournament that isn't even over yet? The Codex is out what? 3 weeks? And you presume to know how the meta is going to settle based on one event? When we don't even know how the new missions might shake up the meta and how Tau and eventually Eldar are going to play into the metagame? Talk about premature judgment....


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 11:15:10


Post by: Eihnlazer


actually, looking straight at the results, you would want to buff custodes. we were one of the 2 most populous armies and currently have a far weaker win rate than the notorious boogy man Drukari still. This means that as long as Druk's have been out and nerfed/changed they STILL are at the top of the pack.

Us being good doesnt change that. Its also too soon to touch custodes in general, as we need results from the points changes.

With tau fixing to enter the meta, it is likely that we wont get changed much, as they will be tabling armies soon and will get much more vitriol thrown their way.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 13:42:12


Post by: Tiberias


 Eihnlazer wrote:
actually, looking straight at the results, you would want to buff custodes. we were one of the 2 most populous armies and currently have a far weaker win rate than the notorious boogy man Drukari still. This means that as long as Druk's have been out and nerfed/changed they STILL are at the top of the pack.

Us being good doesnt change that. Its also too soon to touch custodes in general, as we need results from the points changes.

With tau fixing to enter the meta, it is likely that we wont get changed much, as they will be tabling armies soon and will get much more vitriol thrown their way.


Nah, after the points drops another buff would be really questionable.

Let's assess that again after the balance dataslate and after tau have settled in the meta.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 14:02:54


Post by: Thairne


and after CA2022 made actions/most missions a good bit more harder for custodes to accomplish.
A single model lost means no Engage e.g., that is quite significant.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 15:24:21


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


What about the theory that no one in the top meta has learned our foils yet? And we're so new that we essentially haven't been figured out yet? We have some pretty glaring weaknesses, and some of them we had pre-9th.
- Extremely low model count (Maybe 30-40)
- Weak to Psyker heavy lists (GK/TS)
- Weak to massed high strength shooting (HBs)
- Our shooting is kinda pathetic.

Now they have introduced this Kata system, which is extremely flexible, and gives players a lot of control over how the battle goes. It's hard to prepare against that. I do think we deserve nerfs (Trajann) but I think we also deserve something stronger in damage output for our main units.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 15:32:17


Post by: Thairne


Goonhammer is starting already.


There are more raw win percentages to consider, but it seems clear that Custodes are on par with the game’s top factions, and that’s with players having limited experience playing them, and before a major points drop coming up in a couple of weeks. This faction might be an issue.

brace yourself for torches and pitchforks.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 18:02:16


Post by: Rivener


Do we know what the lists look like? I had heard it’s a lot of FW


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 19:05:46


Post by: Audustum


Rivener wrote:
Do we know what the lists look like? I had heard it’s a lot of FW


I wouldn't say a lot. One has triple A hills Dreads and the other has two Galatus and one or two Caladii. One has a bunch of Guardians (including a 10 man squad). Ateast one had jetbikes too.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:02:55


Post by: Salt donkey


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What about the theory that no one in the top meta has learned our foils yet? And we're so new that we essentially haven't been figured out yet? We have some pretty glaring weaknesses, and some of them we had pre-9th.
- Extremely low model count (Maybe 30-40)
- Weak to Psyker heavy lists (GK/TS)
- Weak to massed high strength shooting (HBs)
- Our shooting is kinda pathetic.

Now they have introduced this Kata system, which is extremely flexible, and gives players a lot of control over how the battle goes. It's hard to prepare against that. I do think we deserve nerfs (Trajann) but I think we also deserve something stronger in damage output for our main units.


Look it’s not like I think we need heavy nerfs, but some make sense at this point. From a factual perspective:

A) Custodes had a 60% win rate and 2 top 8’s at LVO. This is the most WAAC tournament of year/in the world. People expected to play/practiced against custodes plenty before this.

B) Chapter approved gave us points drops. Bike captains and Trajann were staples of most lists. Bikes and single terminators where also quite common. These drops will objectively help those lists even more. Everyone is speculating the new missions/Tau will hurt us. People also speculated our book would be weak and look how that’s turning out.

C) All your points are speculative and don’t mean much in the face of a 60% LVO win-rate (where they would matter if they where real issues.) Emperors chosen + our other psychic defenses are more than enough to handle psychic armies. Low model counts don’t matter if our guys die slowly enough to win the mission. FW options + bikes gives us plenty of viable shooting (especially when added to our incidentally shooting). Heavy bolters, autocannons etc are usually overcosted and can still get countered by something like the shieldwall spam.

Again things like DE and tyranids are clearly worse for the game, and there’s a good chance Tau and eldar will be as well. All these deserve nerfs, but let’s sit here and pretend that means there’s nothing wrong with us either.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:20:00


Post by: artific3r


Custodes are the new DE.

DE got knocked out in the quarter finals. Two of the four lists going into the LVO semi-finals are Custodes. And they're both different. And remember this is before the CA buffs.

The pre-release whining must feel pretty silly now!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:25:00


Post by: Torgroll


@Salt donkey
Where can i get the actual input data for your Statistic, you know because Statistics are known to be always trustworthy.... .
Even if this event is the most WAAC tournament, to use the raw data provided by one tournament alone says not that much in the end.

But you are right, they are in good position and that can't be denied at least for the moment.

@artific3r
Not really, most people didn't complain from a actual competitive point but more from their personal opionen about the style which Custodes have with the new codex but that's a point the competitve guys won't get in their head.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:29:18


Post by: Salt donkey


artific3r wrote:
Custodes are the new DE.

DE got knocked out in the quarter finals. Two of the four lists going into the LVO semi-finals are Custodes. And they're both different. And remember this is before the CA buffs.

The pre-release whining must feel pretty silly now!


Yep the top 4 of LVO is now 1) best player in the world 2) Best hivemind player of all time and 3) 2 custodes players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Torgroll wrote:
@Salt donkey
Where can i get the actual input data for your Statistic, you know because Statistics are known to be always trustworthy.... .


Taken from the competitive Reddit thread. Doesn’t include things like mirror matches and drops in the calculation, but has all the numbers there else-wise. Tyranids and DE had a 62% win rate for those curious.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:34:06


Post by: Audustum


There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 20:57:20


Post by: Salt donkey


Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:12:18


Post by: Audustum


Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


So they're referring to the new primaries. You only score 4 8 12 now and the bonus missions on each map are mostly action based and score primary points. The theory is it'll skew more infantry thus we can't take as many Dreads or bikes. Also, since we have fewer units our action economy is tighter.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:19:24


Post by: Salt donkey


Audustum wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


So they're referring to the new primaries. You only score 4 8 12 now and the bonus missions on each map are mostly action based and score primary points. The theory is it'll skew more infantry thus we can't take as many Dreads or bikes. Also, since we have fewer units our action economy is tighter.


All the mission secondaries don’t require a certain number of models. That makes single terminators units one of best option to preform them. They are obsec and are very hard to screen out, which allows them preform these actions very effectively. They are particularly good in the bomb mission, as you can drop them into a corner and place an objective at the end of the turn. Now you’re opponent has to deal with a hard to reach objective with a terminator guarding it in order to deny you points.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:26:44


Post by: Audustum


Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


So they're referring to the new primaries. You only score 4 8 12 now and the bonus missions on each map are mostly action based and score primary points. The theory is it'll skew more infantry thus we can't take as many Dreads or bikes. Also, since we have fewer units our action economy is tighter.


All the mission secondaries don’t require a certain number of models. That makes single terminators units one of best option to preform them. They are obsec and are very hard to screen out, which allows them preform these actions very effectively. They are particularly good in the bomb mission, as you can drop them into a corner and place an objective at the end of the turn. Now you’re opponent has to deal with a hard to reach objective with a terminator guarding it in order to deny you points.


A fair number of them are about being in the middle or holding things in the middle. The bomb is a bit of a unique one. The point also is that if we start loading up on more infantry to do these things we can't take 3 Achillus or 2 Galatus and 2 Caladii or 9 jetbikes, e.t.c. (i.e. our composition gets weakened on raw power).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:28:25


Post by: stratigo


artific3r wrote:
Custodes are the new DE.

DE got knocked out in the quarter finals. Two of the four lists going into the LVO semi-finals are Custodes. And they're both different. And remember this is before the CA buffs.

The pre-release whining must feel pretty silly now!


I really don’t think custodes are dark eldar, but so far they have had a surprisingly strong matchup into dark eldar thicc city, which really surprised me. Though I think the cheema all wracked beats custodes pretty thoroughly just swarming objectives, but he got taken down by nids


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:33:26


Post by: Tiberias


Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


So they're referring to the new primaries. You only score 4 8 12 now and the bonus missions on each map are mostly action based and score primary points. The theory is it'll skew more infantry thus we can't take as many Dreads or bikes. Also, since we have fewer units our action economy is tighter.


All the mission secondaries don’t require a certain number of models. That makes single terminators units one of best option to preform them. They are obsec and are very hard to screen out, which allows them preform these actions very effectively. They are particularly good in the bomb mission, as you can drop them into a corner and place an objective at the end of the turn. Now you’re opponent has to deal with a hard to reach objective with a terminator guarding it in order to deny you points.


Again, you called out people who underestimated the codex before release (and rightly so). How about we wait and see how the new missions and the balance dataslate that's coming in february are going to change the meta before passing any judgment (tau and eldar are going to shake things up quite a bit as well).

Trajann at 160 was absolutely unnecessary though, I don't this anyone will argue about that. He was already amazing at 170.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:38:11


Post by: Salt donkey


Audustum wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
Audustum wrote:
There is theory too that the 2022 missions will be bad for us or change us since they're so action oriented. That is something to put a star by and check later.


Can someone explain this theory to me as aside from changes to engage on all fronts and retrieve Octavius data I see no major issues for us in the new book. We still have stranghold and behind enemy lines as good options (especially with boosting bike captains and single terminator units). Raise banners and now investigate sites are also fine options to replace retrieve. Outside of these all the new mission designs seem to benefit us more than hurt. Just remember that new missions need to be evaluated from an opportunity cost perspective. Even though engage and retrieve Octavius data may be much worse us now that doesn’t matter if we are better at doing “replacement” secondaries than most armies.


So they're referring to the new primaries. You only score 4 8 12 now and the bonus missions on each map are mostly action based and score primary points. The theory is it'll skew more infantry thus we can't take as many Dreads or bikes. Also, since we have fewer units our action economy is tighter.


All the mission secondaries don’t require a certain number of models. That makes single terminators units one of best option to preform them. They are obsec and are very hard to screen out, which allows them preform these actions very effectively. They are particularly good in the bomb mission, as you can drop them into a corner and place an objective at the end of the turn. Now you’re opponent has to deal with a hard to reach objective with a terminator guarding it in order to deny you points.


A fair number of them are about being in the middle or holding things in the middle. The bomb is a bit of a unique one. The point also is that if we start loading up on more infantry to do these things we can't take 3 Achillus or 2 Galatus and 2 Caladii or 9 jetbikes, e.t.c. (i.e. our composition gets weakened on raw power).


Of the 9 missions; 1 cares about scoring the center objective, 3 care about holding no-man’s land objectives, 1 cares about objectives not under your control, 1 cares about kill points, 3 are action secondaries, where 1 (the scouring) requires you to preform actions on an objective. That 1 is the one I worry about most, but it’s hard to do/bad for everyone. All other 8 seems easy for us even by just running 3 independent terminators and some sisters (you’ll have guardians, characters, and likely 1 warden squad to help as well).


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/30 21:40:46


Post by: stratigo


I do think the two top 8 custodes players have majorly lucked out by dodging our worst match up in crusher stampede.

Crusher stampede, ironically, looks to mostly have taken itself out of the top 8, with the stampede that just last to a non stampede nid having gone through two mirrors on the way there.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 13:34:39


Post by: iGuy91


I think Custodes results at LVO really show that with limited experience, and pre-buffs, the codex is competitive. Beating Siegler's admech for the championship was going to always be a tall order.

Yes, as we all knew, Drukhari still need nerfs.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 13:49:17


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Anyone wanna even hazard a guess at the first nerf we have incoming?

I'm gonna say our Dreads cost. There is zero chance in hell that the Gee Dubs nerfs DE. They haven't for the past three majors and CA, why would they start now? No, I'm putting 20 on the sheer whinging about how powerful Custodes are sees us go back to pre-codex points costs for units, Bike Captains get further nerfs, and dreads either go up in cost, or lose something. This is exactly what we didn't need to see. FW dread lists winning majors a month after a codex drop. Now our best units will get nerfed, and likely the entire faction.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 14:36:03


Post by: U02dah4


What you have to remember is anything printed is 6 months behind DE are due for a nerf next time. Custodes might get a little leeway. As to immediate changes their needs to be data with the new missions and I think that will determine it. Its also not all about how this faction adapts to the new mission structure and sub detatchment rules but how others do and some like SoB got nuked.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 15:29:48


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Anyone wanna even hazard a guess at the first nerf we have incoming?

I'm gonna say our Dreads cost. There is zero chance in hell that the Gee Dubs nerfs DE. They haven't for the past three majors and CA, why would they start now? No, I'm putting 20 on the sheer whinging about how powerful Custodes are sees us go back to pre-codex points costs for units, Bike Captains get further nerfs, and dreads either go up in cost, or lose something. This is exactly what we didn't need to see. FW dread lists winning majors a month after a codex drop. Now our best units will get nerfed, and likely the entire faction.


Doom and Gloom. The book just dropped. That’s a pretty pessimistic look on life you have there.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 15:35:05


Post by: iGuy91


U02dah4 wrote:
What you have to remember is anything printed is 6 months behind DE are due for a nerf next time. Custodes might get a little leeway. As to immediate changes their needs to be data with the new missions and I think that will determine it. Its also not all about how this faction adapts to the new mission structure and sub detatchment rules but how others do and some like SoB got nuked.



Yeeeeaaah, I don't buy the doom and gloom. I'm pretty happy with where this has all ended up. You may as well enjoy what we have for now.
The meta hasn't adjusted for the book yet, and Tau are due to shake things up in a big way as well. Even if we get nerfed, it would probably be a points rollback to their original values.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 15:38:10


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


I think everyone needs to calm down. LVO isn’t going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. It’s a new dropped book. I’m willing to bet most of those Custodes players were former Drukari/Admech players and know all the in’s and outs of their opponent’s lists. Combine that with a new book and you have yourself a winning combo. I personally think the Custodes will always be fighting an uphill battle with their glaring weakness of numbers and tournament missions objectives.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 16:16:32


Post by: Scoundrel80


so everyone is talking about characters, and yeah, they got buffs. but I still think they do too little. I feel I would rather have lots of models and rerolls from emps chosen.

what about something like this:

trajan
swordwizard

3x3 sagittarum
2x3 swordnboard guys
5 prosecutors

2x galatus

2x3 salvo bikes

I like the simplicity. lots of independent threats, able to hold the board decently. lots of cp/all the buffing stats costing 1. decent amount of dam3. Decent anti tank with the bikes and no reason to not spread out as no auras are key to your gameplan. if needed, you should be able to focus a strong hit somewhere with Trajan, though.

is this viable or are you guys going character heavy now?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I started out with just one galas and 2x4 bikes as only one dread can have penitent now. liked that too, but I feel the extra dread is good. opinions?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 18:27:18


Post by: nordsturmking


Scoundrel80 wrote:
so everyone is talking about characters, and yeah, they got buffs. but I still think they do too little. I feel I would rather have lots of models and rerolls from emps chosen.

what about something like this:

trajan
swordwizard

3x3 sagittarum
2x3 swordnboard guys
5 prosecutors

2x galatus

2x3 salvo bikes

I like the simplicity. lots of independent threats, able to hold the board decently. lots of cp/all the buffing stats costing 1. decent amount of dam3. Decent anti tank with the bikes and no reason to not spread out as no auras are key to your gameplan. if needed, you should be able to focus a strong hit somewhere with Trajan, though.

is this viable or are you guys going character heavy now?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I started out with just one galas and 2x4 bikes as only one dread can have penitent now. liked that too, but I feel the extra dread is good. opinions?

People take captains because of the utility they provide. An Allaurs cap. with plate, indomitable mind is basicly two guadians in one and very mobile.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 18:52:41


Post by: Scoundrel80


Yeah, i know. He is super good. I dont Think he is a natural fit here, though. I considered a souped up bikecap too but ended up on the bladechamp as it allowed for 5 prosecutors for actions. Are 3 man bike squads the Way to go now btw?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 19:24:38


Post by: Thairne


imo yes, since they're expensive and every strat costs 1 CP. Once you go above, AGA starts costing 2 together with a few others.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 19:26:26


Post by: Tiberias


Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, i know. He is super good. I dont Think he is a natural fit here, though. I considered a souped up bikecap too but ended up on the bladechamp as it allowed for 5 prosecutors for actions. Are 3 man bike squads the Way to go now btw?


Regarding the bikes: personally I believe 3man squads are the way to go, simply because a lot of our durability is tied to our stratagems and the most important ones like transhuman and auspice now only cost 1cp for 3man squads. One more bike in a squad is not worth doubling the cost of our most important stratagems imo.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 20:08:16


Post by: Scoundrel80


Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.

Only thing I really miss is obsec on bikes : ) but hey, prosecutors are obsec now. that almost makes up for it. And all our best starts are now cheaper.

back to the list im putting together. Im playing my first 9th game with the dudes on thursday and its against orks. I went down to 1 galatus, and I love how the rules sort of helped me streamline. It just felt subpar to run another melee dead if it couldn't get PE. Thats good design with the goal to make people play more generalist lists than all dreads for example.

I also cut the sword wizard for a brutal and maneuverable bike cap. and I still have 10 cp! Opinons are welcomed.

(the flame girls are only because I can't have more troops. So no obsec. BUT I sort of like that they can get s5 ap1 on those flamers. also; even 2k points feels good: )


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [94 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -2CP, 195pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Auric Aquilas, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 279pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 279pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Witchseekers [4 PL, 70pts]: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 4x Witchseeker: 4x Witchseeker Flamer

++ Total: [94 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 21:42:28


Post by: Salt donkey


 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
I think everyone needs to calm down. LVO isn’t going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. It’s a new dropped book. I’m willing to bet most of those Custodes players were former Drukari/Admech players and know all the in’s and outs of their opponent’s lists. Combine that with a new book and you have yourself a winning combo. I personally think the Custodes will always be fighting an uphill battle with their glaring weakness of numbers and tournament missions objectives.


Couple of things. Again I’m not necessarily advocating for nerfs, but do think it’s worthwhile to prepare for them. It’s important to remember that we are biased by playing this army.

To that end, what I’m seeing is exactly the same type of arguments DE players where making when their codex was first complained about. “We need to wait for the meta to adjust.” “They’re an army that plays well into the Space Marine meta.” “People need to adjust their playstyle to deal with this new threat.”

Beyond this you’re arguing that we will become weaker due to a rules adjustment that included points drops for us while raising the cost of our biggest predator ( tyranid dimachaerons).

Combined point being, I think your bias is making you believe your arguments are a lot stronger than they are. Tau and eldar being more OP is the biggest reason I want to wait and see for now, but overall we are an extremely strong dex atm.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.

Only thing I really miss is obsec on bikes : ) but hey, prosecutors are obsec now. that almost makes up for it. And all our best starts are now cheaper.

back to the list im putting together. Im playing my first 9th game with the dudes on thursday and its against orks. I went down to 1 galatus, and I love how the rules sort of helped me streamline. It just felt subpar to run another melee dead if it couldn't get PE. Thats good design with the goal to make people play more generalist lists than all dreads for example.

I also cut the sword wizard for a brutal and maneuverable bike cap. and I still have 10 cp! Opinons are welcomed.

(the flame girls are only because I can't have more troops. So no obsec. BUT I sort of like that they can get s5 ap1 on those flamers. also; even 2k points feels good: )


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [94 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -2CP, 195pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Auric Aquilas, Misericordia, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Prosecutors [3 PL, 60pts]: Prosecutor Sister Superior
. 4x Prosecutor: 4x Boltgun

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 279pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 279pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher & Misericordia: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Misericordia, 3x Salvo Launcher

Witchseekers [4 PL, 70pts]: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 4x Witchseeker: 4x Witchseeker Flamer

++ Total: [94 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)



Do you think sanitarium/sword and board guys are better than wardens? I could kinda see that but am curious for your reasoning.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 22:14:12


Post by: Scoundrel80


hmm. Actually, im not sure. I feel the wardens would be better if I ran a lot of characters. I guess they could babysit Trajan for a rather strong center piece.

Thing is, six sword n board just seems like something I feel we need. they are not as good as they used to be, but they will still draw fire. And I think the shield is a better defensive feature than the 6+++ from the wardens. Im not 100percent that it makes up for the +1a.

the 9 saggitarum with no -1 Vex is a huge gamble. I just feel, that with emps chosen rerolls they seem too good not to bet on. I loved them with 8th rules, and to me, between all the defensive buffs costing 1 and them rerolling AND their 4++ not being as much of a drawback (everyone has them), they just look good. Feel free to correct me if im wrong : )


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 22:46:05


Post by: Ordana


Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.
Right, because no re-rolls or -1A sub faction trait are not a NPE?

Custodes appear to have more "no you don't get to do your stuff" rules and strats then they did before.
,


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 22:58:43


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Got another game in with the new Codex this weekend. Only 1000pts which definitely changes up the playstyle quite a bit. Very close game 60 to 58.

Armies
Spoiler:
Custodes - Shadowkeepers
-Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike
-Guard Squad x4, Guard Squad x3, Sagittarum x4
-Achillus Dreadnought & Vexilus Praetor (Magnifica)
-Secondaries: Auric Mortalis, Grind them Down, Behind Enemy Lines

Space Marines - Iron Hands
-Techmarine with T5 and -1 DMG
-Assault Intercessors, Bladeguard Vets, Eradicators
-Redemptor Dread with Plasma
-Primaris Grav Tank with Melta and Lascannons


Photos
Spoiler:


Setup - My opponent normally castles when I play a melee heavy army so I set up at the edge of my deployment zone to reduce the time spent footslogging. Since I was expecting a castle I went with Behind enemy lines expecting to spend most of the game locked in Melee in his backfield.

After a successful Melee in Round 2 my opponent fell back in Turn 3 allowing for his Shooting heavy army to unload before charging in with the Dread. Miraculously my units survived all the Shooting but I lost the Guard squad in Melee.

My Vexilus Praetor fell back and sat on the objective, he was pursued by my opponents Warlord and they engaged in Glorious Melee Combat for several rounds. We set them up on top the terrain since they were having issues fitting inside. Since the ruins were breachable to infantry this meant the Dread had to take the long way around, sparing me from his Melee for a round. Meanwhile my Jetbike Captain went behind enemy lines and charged both the Tank and Eradicators, failing to remove the Tanks last wound but taking out a pair of eradicators.

We finished in Round 5 with him trying to off my Warlord with his Assault Intercessors who nailed their high distance charge. Thankfully with high Toughness and Superior Creation my Warlord survived allowing me to score 5 pts for him and 5 more for the Sagittarum Guard on Primaries since they were able to foil the Dread's charge with Tanglefoot Grenade.


General Thoughts & Observations
-The middle pieces (hills topped with barrels) were proxied as dense terrain for the -1 Hit
-I took a risk by setting up my Guard Squads much closer to the enemy (but not hidden by obscuring terrain) banking on the -1 Hit from the Dense terrain or the Vexilla. The -1 Hit is nice, but still not enough to matter when dealing with Melta spam. Arcane Genetic Alchemy for 1CP is great, but high volume melta fire can overcome it.
-I thought I was going to be wiped by Round 3 but fortunately my poor rolls subsided and my Captain alone made 90% of his Invul saves.
-I still like Sagittarum guard but with cheaper Obsec Sisters available I think I'll opt for those in smaller games
-I really love the Shadowkeepers trait, but since the -1A affects your opponents units instead of your own it does make it easier to forget in friendly games when you spend just as much attention on the conversation as you do the gameplay.
-In small 1000pt games Callistus won't always be an auto-include. The Kata which involves a roll-off to disengage was extremely helpful though
-My opponent's Bladeguard Vets made for a good roadblock for both by Custodes Guards and Achillus Dread and successfully screened his tank. My Jetbike captain made it in and dished out many wounds, unfortunately the tank was not bracketed due to the Iron Hands bonus.
-Enemy warlord traits with -1 DMG make for long drawn out combats with our D2 units
-I think To the Last is a great fluffy secondary for us, but if you're running 3 man squads and Achillus Dreads, often times the Dread is in your Top 3 and they are prime targets in a melta spam meta. Really love Auric Mortalis, taking out the max size Eradicators earned 11pts for me.
-I won the game in Round 5 when a Tanglefoot grenade applied a 5" penalty to the enemy Dread, otherwise it would have stomped all over my remaining Sagittarum Guard.

Lucky & Unlucky Moments
-The enemy Dreads initial plasma resulted in 3 MWs
-Mid game my Jetbike Captain charged both the grav tank and Eradicators, I put two attacks on the Tank just to kill it's last wound. Naturally both hit rolls were 1.
-Turn 1 when I lost a 3 man squad 5 of the 7 failed Invul Saves were 3s. So close yet so far..
-My Vexilus Praetor nearly killed the enemy warlord twice if not for their FnP rolls & -1 DMG Warlord trait


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 23:01:04


Post by: Scoundrel80


well, they still have some, yes. But the four worst mechanics were stooping, vex teleport, the -1s strat on telemons and armywide 3++. wouldn't you agree? They are all gone. allarus ap ignoring too. So I dont see how they have more now than before?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 23:45:19


Post by: stratigo


 Ordana wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.
Right, because no re-rolls or -1A sub faction trait are not a NPE?

Custodes appear to have more "no you don't get to do your stuff" rules and strats then they did before.
,


No rerolls is not npe. It’s a reaction that costs a resource. -1 attack could be against wide armies of 2 attack models, but those barely exist.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/01/31 23:58:58


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


What is NPE? I'm not that cool yet.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 00:35:02


Post by: Scoundrel80


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What is NPE? I'm not that cool yet.


oh, sorry. Negative player/playing experience. Like when 9 bikes charge you in your own turn or when 6 allarus teleport into melee with your center or back line and there was nothing you could do about it ever because with the small boards of ninth, all the vex had to do was move or sometimes advance twice.

I feel the new rules clean up a lot of that stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.
Right, because no re-rolls or -1A sub faction trait are not a NPE?

Custodes appear to have more "no you don't get to do your stuff" rules and strats then they did before.
,


No rerolls is not npe. It’s a reaction that costs a resource. -1 attack could be against wide armies of 2 attack models, but those barely exist.


I agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hey guys. Any comments on my build? : )


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 04:30:00


Post by: ZergSmasher


Regarding Custodian Wardens: Axes or Spears? I got a box of them I want to put together and I'd like to make them as good as possible. Help an aspiring Custodes general out, huh?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 05:59:01


Post by: stratigo


Scoundrel80 wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What is NPE? I'm not that cool yet.


oh, sorry. Negative player/playing experience. Like when 9 bikes charge you in your own turn or when 6 allarus teleport into melee with your center or back line and there was nothing you could do about it ever because with the small boards of ninth, all the vex had to do was move or sometimes advance twice.

I feel the new rules clean up a lot of that stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratigo wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yeah, I totally agree.

first of: Ive been toying with this the last couple of hours. I was sceptical going in, but now i LOVE the new rules. All our most bonkers stuff that always led to NPE for out opponents (stooping, vex tele into autocharge with 6termies, the -1 strength strat etc.) are gone. So is the annoying 3++. Instead we get af much more dynamic army with lots of sweet tools. Lets face it, playing old golden boys was bit abusive at times. I know they slid down a bit on the winning lists in the end, but if you could roll thos 3-4s, the opponent had very frustrating games.
Right, because no re-rolls or -1A sub faction trait are not a NPE?

Custodes appear to have more "no you don't get to do your stuff" rules and strats then they did before.
,


No rerolls is not npe. It’s a reaction that costs a resource. -1 attack could be against wide armies of 2 attack models, but those barely exist.


I agree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hey guys. Any comments on my build? : )


Swooping dive was only NPE if you didn't know about it, and your oponent is a dick if they don't tell you. Otherwise, like, you can in fact play around it. No competitive custodes list ran any bikes at all.

The Allarus bomb is literally just what everyone can do. Reliable charges from DS/across the board is a thing in the game, and allarus weren't particularly killy, so could easily deadlock into something. And still had to, you know, worry about screens.

These aren't NPE, unless you have a really low threshold for what is negative.

Like, a successful leafblower list is NPE, because it relies on the ability to table an opponent in a couple turns with oppressive firepower.

I


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 08:18:58


Post by: Salt donkey


Here’s a question, what are actually our best units? Trajann is obviously an auto-include, but past him things get more murky. Let me give some contenders.

1) Achilles dreadnoughts: 3 damage weapons are needed for this army. I think these guys come close, but have to compete G dreadnoughts, and was one of the few units that got worse post CA22.

2) Calidus grav tanks: fills an important army niche as a dedicated firepower unit. That said they’re only a fine unit and also got worse post CA22.

3) salvo bikes: were already good and got buffed further in CA22. Not every successful list ran them at LVO, but I’d still put them just behind Trajann as competitive staples.

4) solo Allarus terminator: was used to great effect at LVO and I think the new missions want us to take them even more. Points drop + free misicordia further there cause.

5) sagiataruim guardians. Seems to still be the go to troops option for us. However, they now compete with.

6) shield guardians: +1 save actually keeps them decently survivalable. That said I’m worried Tau make their lives significantly harder with all the D3 damage they have.

7) wardens: IMO better than shield guardians outside of shieldwall builds.

8) bannerman: now with free daggers. Still solid options for just generally keeping your army alive longer. They’re also not terrible general characters.






Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 08:26:13


Post by: Scoundrel80


ok, those things are hard to discuss. I dont even feel any NPE at all personally as I just love the game mostly.

I can only say, that in my games in my little semi-competitive playgroup charging with a massively violent bike squad during my opponents turn has led to NPE and so has the vex teleport. Yes you can screen against both but both mechanics are inherently against basic concepts in the game; namely the 9inch deepstrike clause and the "I charge in my own charge-phase" concept. Allarus could be more Killy, yes, but when they pop up in your face they are still super brutal very often.

whatever. Lets talk about the future for this wonderful army. Cant wait to play. I must say, tho, I am a bit scared as to how fast my guard will go down sans the 3++. they are not that much cheaper, so we dont have a lot more of them. maybe we just get tabled t3 now

Wardens, sagittarum and shield guard are all around 150 now. will we see wardens now?



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 09:30:42


Post by: Tiberias


Salt donkey wrote:Here’s a question, what are actually our best units? Trajann is obviously an auto-include, but past him things get more murky. Let me give some contenders.

1) Achilles dreadnoughts: 3 damage weapons are needed for this army. I think these guys come close, but have to compete G dreadnoughts, and was one of the few units that got worse post CA22.

2) Calidus grav tanks: fills an important army niche as a dedicated firepower unit. That said they’re only a fine unit and also got worse post CA22.

3) salvo bikes: were already good and got buffed further in CA22. Not every successful list ran them at LVO, but I’d still put them just behind Trajann as competitive staples.

4) solo Allarus terminator: was used to great effect at LVO and I think the new missions want us to take them even more. Points drop + free misicordia further there cause.

5) sagiataruim guardians. Seems to still be the go to troops option for us. However, they now compete with.

6) shield guardians: +1 save actually keeps them decently survivalable. That said I’m worried Tau make their lives significantly harder with all the D3 damage they have.

7) wardens: IMO better than shield guardians outside of shieldwall builds.

8) bannerman: now with free daggers. Still solid options for just generally keeping your army alive longer. They’re also not terrible general characters.






Our top 3 units, that are going to appear in almost every list are all characters:

-Trajann: for obvious reasons. The old man just brings so much to the table considering his cost
-Bike Captain: still very tough, very fast and flexible unit
-Allarus Captain: simply because of how good the praetorian plate is.
(I'd throw in the blade champion as a honorable mention, because he can be kitted out to kill anything you need him to. The only issue people have with him, is that he is slow)

I'm my write up on the first page I stated that this codex is very much a herohammer codex and I stand by that assessment.
This is also why wardens are growing on me more and more, since the bodyguard rule can be super handy when relying on characters to do stuff as we do.

Apart from that most units we have access to can have a place depending on what build and shield host you are going for.
There are only a few units I that probably won't see much play:
-vigilators: in a vacuum they are actually pretty good and cool, but if you bring custodes you simply don't need them.
-orion: too expensive and the definition of all eggs in one basket.
-null maiden rhino: you probably only want this for vigilators, which you probably won't play.
-standard shield captain: it's a shame, but the other hq options just seem more enticing.
-Coronus: too expensive still probably

It's also difficult to assess the top units aside from hqs until we know how FW units are going to get updated. Do venatari weapons get the auric weapon keyword? Do the adrasite and melta spears? That might change the assessment of those units quite a bit.

I for one am glad that we actually have decent internal codex balance.

Scoundrel80 wrote:ok, those things are hard to discuss. I dont even feel any NPE at all personally as I just love the game mostly.

I can only say, that in my games in my little semi-competitive playgroup charging with a massively violent bike squad during my opponents turn has led to NPE and so has the vex teleport. Yes you can screen against both but both mechanics are inherently against basic concepts in the game; namely the 9inch deepstrike clause and the "I charge in my own charge-phase" concept. Allarus could be more Killy, yes, but when they pop up in your face they are still super brutal very often.

whatever. Lets talk about the future for this wonderful army. Cant wait to play. I must say, tho, I am a bit scared as to how fast my guard will go down sans the 3++. they are not that much cheaper, so we dont have a lot more of them. maybe we just get tabled t3 now

Wardens, sagittarum and shield guard are all around 150 now. will we see wardens now?



I think at least one 3man squad of wardens could pop up in a lot of lists, yes.

As for our durability: shield guard are not as durable as before, but they are cheaper. You have to think differently about this unit. It's not an immovable object anymore and you have to expect to lose them way more often than before, BUT they are still plenty tough, especially with stratagem support. Although you probably won't use our stratagems on shield guard that often anymore, since terminators and bikes are more valuable.

Are we going to get tabled against tau? No, I don't think so unless it's an extreme skew list where the tau player specifically builds the list against custodes with all the ignoring invulns rules they can find.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 10:52:37


Post by: Eihnlazer


wardens are great. Other than eating an elite slot instead of a troop slot they are basically perfect.

Axe's on them gives you a bit more bite than spear guard in most situations.
Bodyguard means you have to kill the whole squad to target characters.
6+++ means your never sure your gonna kill them, even with flat 3 dmg weapons.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 12:22:27


Post by: Scoundrel80


actually, Trajan, -1to hit vex and 3 wardens would be a really strong center piece. he'd have to smash the wardens to get to the guys and if stuff gets hot the guys could heroically in, and, as I am EC, be shadow keepers with the -1a trait via the strat. Maybe have a galatus or a second squad back them up. they should be able to hold their own pretty well and this opens op a lot of play on the rest of the board.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 13:28:00


Post by: KGYM


Hey folks,

participating in a 20-person RTT on Saturday, obv bringing Custodes. Playing CA22, and I'm a bit afraid. First list is a generic EC one, the second is a SK, as I'm afraid of mirror matches, there will be at least 5 Custodes players (even though 3 or 4 just jumped on the bandwagon). Could you please think my strategies through? I'll post the lists and the missions, which will be 12, 33, 31.

Spoiler:

EC Battalion

Bike Cap (Auric Exemplar, Tip, Superior, Castellan's Mark)
Allarus Cap (UD, PP, Impregnable)
Trajann

2x3 Shield Guards
1x5 Prosecutors

3x1 Allarus (so 3 singles)
Galatus with EP
1x3 Wardens (Axe)

2x3 Salvo Bikes
maybe I can fit in 3 Spear Venatari here



Spoiler:


SK Battalion

Blade Champ (Peerless, Eagle's Eye)
Bike Cap (Oubliette, Superior, Tip)
Trajann

3 Spear Guards
2x3 Shield Guards

2x1 Allarus

3x3 Salvo Bikes

I still have 150-200 points to spare.



Mission #1 is 12 (Tear down their icons), triangular deploy, you have to arm explosives in their deploy. The SK list might be better suited for this, as non-obsec units have to wait a whole turn to be done with it. This could work well with the Action katah. If I can flood their deploy with Allarus (obsec), that would work even better, so I'm only mulling on chosen secondaries. I could try to contest the middle for a Stranglehold, and go for Teleport Homer with the Allarus units, so if I can fortify a little area in their deploy I can essentially max this out with Allarus and bikes, and a regular Ass/Bring depending on the opponent. Only bad feeling about contesting middle for stranglehold and doing deploy actions might make me too thin,

Mission 33 is Secure artefacts, triangular deploy, move around objectives a bit and secretly designate one as priority in the opponent's side of table. I think this is more or less the same as the previous one. Jump in the deploy, control the priority objective, contest the middle. Deploy, Stranglehold, Ass/Bring.

Mission 31 is tide of conviction, long side deploy (so T1 charges are possible), 6 objectives, two for 5. You only get command phase CP if you control your own objective, so I need to watch out for obsec denying auras. Mission sec is control objective in opponent's territory and maybe deployment. I think EC might be better here: just go in the middle, and mess things up. A mortal FNP is more valuable in my eyes for this than a -1A, as the FNP greatly reduces ranged threats from psykers. Deploy teleport only possible if I sacrifice a unit for standing in the corner and doing nothing else all day long, raise the banners impossibly hard here. No idea, other than stranglehold and hope for the best.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 14:30:56


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


Scoundrel80 wrote:
actually, Trajan, -1to hit vex and 3 wardens would be a really strong center piece. he'd have to smash the wardens to get to the guys and if stuff gets hot the guys could heroically in, and, as I am EC, be shadow keepers with the -1a trait via the strat. Maybe have a galatus or a second squad back them up. they should be able to hold their own pretty well and this opens op a lot of play on the rest of the board.


This is sound advice. I ran The Captain General himself this weekend with 4 wardens w/ Axes backed by a Venerable Contemptor Dread and wow did he not disappoint. Ran him straight at my opponent’s Necron line after getting 1st turn assaulted by a 6man unit of Skorpeth Destroyers. Spoiled his assault with Terminator Captain with Praetorian Plate. Played them as Aquilan Shield and I really enjoyed the synergies with Salvus. Shot down a screen wall of warriors before crashing into a unit of Lychguard and Ankyar The Traveler. Let the wardens peel off after that and mopped up a unit of Immortals.

Now that you suggest a Vex Praetor, that would make this combo even better.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 14:42:24


Post by: Scoundrel80


KGYM wrote:
Hey folks,

participating in a 20-person RTT on Saturday, obv bringing Custodes. Playing CA22, and I'm a bit afraid. First list is a generic EC one, the second is a SK, as I'm afraid of mirror matches, there will be at least 5 Custodes players (even though 3 or 4 just jumped on the bandwagon). Could you please think my strategies through? I'll post the lists and the missions, which will be 12, 33, 31.

Spoiler:

EC Battalion

Bike Cap (Auric Exemplar, Tip, Superior, Castellan's Mark)
Allarus Cap (UD, PP, Impregnable)
Trajann

2x3 Shield Guards
1x5 Prosecutors

3x1 Allarus (so 3 singles)
Galatus with EP
1x3 Wardens (Axe)

2x3 Salvo Bikes
maybe I can fit in 3 Spear Venatari here



Spoiler:


SK Battalion

Blade Champ (Peerless, Eagle's Eye)
Bike Cap (Oubliette, Superior, Tip)
Trajann

3 Spear Guards
2x3 Shield Guards

2x1 Allarus

3x3 Salvo Bikes

I still have 150-200 points to spare.



Mission #1 is 12 (Tear down their icons), triangular deploy, you have to arm explosives in their deploy. The SK list might be better suited for this, as non-obsec units have to wait a whole turn to be done with it. This could work well with the Action katah. If I can flood their deploy with Allarus (obsec), that would work even better, so I'm only mulling on chosen secondaries. I could try to contest the middle for a Stranglehold, and go for Teleport Homer with the Allarus units, so if I can fortify a little area in their deploy I can essentially max this out with Allarus and bikes, and a regular Ass/Bring depending on the opponent. Only bad feeling about contesting middle for stranglehold and doing deploy actions might make me too thin,

Mission 33 is Secure artefacts, triangular deploy, move around objectives a bit and secretly designate one as priority in the opponent's side of table. I think this is more or less the same as the previous one. Jump in the deploy, control the priority objective, contest the middle. Deploy, Stranglehold, Ass/Bring.

Mission 31 is tide of conviction, long side deploy (so T1 charges are possible), 6 objectives, two for 5. You only get command phase CP if you control your own objective, so I need to watch out for obsec denying auras. Mission sec is control objective in opponent's territory and maybe deployment. I think EC might be better here: just go in the middle, and mess things up. A mortal FNP is more valuable in my eyes for this than a -1A, as the FNP greatly reduces ranged threats from psykers. Deploy teleport only possible if I sacrifice a unit for standing in the corner and doing nothing else all day long, raise the banners impossibly hard here. No idea, other than stranglehold and hope for the best.


I really like the top one. Very close to what im planning on running.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 14:51:43


Post by: Tiberias


KGYM wrote:
Hey folks,

participating in a 20-person RTT on Saturday, obv bringing Custodes. Playing CA22, and I'm a bit afraid. First list is a generic EC one, the second is a SK, as I'm afraid of mirror matches, there will be at least 5 Custodes players (even though 3 or 4 just jumped on the bandwagon). Could you please think my strategies through? I'll post the lists and the missions, which will be 12, 33, 31.

Spoiler:

EC Battalion

Bike Cap (Auric Exemplar, Tip, Superior, Castellan's Mark)
Allarus Cap (UD, PP, Impregnable)
Trajann

2x3 Shield Guards
1x5 Prosecutors

3x1 Allarus (so 3 singles)
Galatus with EP
1x3 Wardens (Axe)

2x3 Salvo Bikes
maybe I can fit in 3 Spear Venatari here



Spoiler:


SK Battalion

Blade Champ (Peerless, Eagle's Eye)
Bike Cap (Oubliette, Superior, Tip)
Trajann

3 Spear Guards
2x3 Shield Guards

2x1 Allarus

3x3 Salvo Bikes

I still have 150-200 points to spare.



Mission #1 is 12 (Tear down their icons), triangular deploy, you have to arm explosives in their deploy. The SK list might be better suited for this, as non-obsec units have to wait a whole turn to be done with it. This could work well with the Action katah. If I can flood their deploy with Allarus (obsec), that would work even better, so I'm only mulling on chosen secondaries. I could try to contest the middle for a Stranglehold, and go for Teleport Homer with the Allarus units, so if I can fortify a little area in their deploy I can essentially max this out with Allarus and bikes, and a regular Ass/Bring depending on the opponent. Only bad feeling about contesting middle for stranglehold and doing deploy actions might make me too thin,

Mission 33 is Secure artefacts, triangular deploy, move around objectives a bit and secretly designate one as priority in the opponent's side of table. I think this is more or less the same as the previous one. Jump in the deploy, control the priority objective, contest the middle. Deploy, Stranglehold, Ass/Bring.

Mission 31 is tide of conviction, long side deploy (so T1 charges are possible), 6 objectives, two for 5. You only get command phase CP if you control your own objective, so I need to watch out for obsec denying auras. Mission sec is control objective in opponent's territory and maybe deployment. I think EC might be better here: just go in the middle, and mess things up. A mortal FNP is more valuable in my eyes for this than a -1A, as the FNP greatly reduces ranged threats from psykers. Deploy teleport only possible if I sacrifice a unit for standing in the corner and doing nothing else all day long, raise the banners impossibly hard here. No idea, other than stranglehold and hope for the best.


Ok, the Emperor's chosen list is probably the better list if you are not sure what your meta game is going to be. The list looks good, but I'd rather include a Vexillus over the venatari. The banners are still valuable even if you know in your meta you won't encounter much shooting, then the +1 attack is still really good.

For the shadowkeepers list I'd definitely pay one CP to give either the blade champ or bike captain the lockwarden trait as second warlord trait. If you go for character hunting, then go all the way.

Generally Allarus can be very good for enemy backfield actions, since it's actually quite difficult to screen them out. So I'd include a third Allarus in the shadowkeepers list and maybe some Prosecutors.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 18:16:15


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


So, I think we can stop focusing on what is "best" unit currently, as LVO was just won by a complete non-meta list. Granted it was the best 40k player in the world (Arguably) but still. With our dex being so tiny, we don't really have any "BAD" units, unless you count our flyers, or Blade Sisters. But those all still do great work. Just the cost is extreme in using them, versus better options.

Point being, I don't think we need to ramp up the TOP META LISTS talk, but maybe "What have you found really enjoyable/challenging?

As others have said, Bikes are in a really weird place right now, they can be powerful, but you give up a lot to run them? What about an all bike list, as EC?

What about an all Spear List? Wardens, Guardians, and Terminators, with Christopher Walken to lead them?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 18:24:14


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, I think we can stop focusing on what is "best" unit currently, as LVO was just won by a complete non-meta list. Granted it was the best 40k player in the world (Arguably) but still. With our dex being so tiny, we don't really have any "BAD" units, unless you count our flyers, or Blade Sisters. But those all still do great work. Just the cost is extreme in using them, versus better options.

Point being, I don't think we need to ramp up the TOP META LISTS talk, but maybe "What have you found really enjoyable/challenging?

As others have said, Bikes are in a really weird place right now, they can be powerful, but you give up a lot to run them? What about an all bike list, as EC?

What about an all Spear List? Wardens, Guardians, and Terminators, with Christopher Walken to lead them?


I think a meta is shaking out for us so I personally enjoy trying to pinpoint it (and these latest couple posts are some of the most refreshing I've seen in a tactica thread on Dakka in ages). We should, however, recognize current meta predictions are based in clay, not stone, due to how new everything is still.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 20:25:16


Post by: Scoundrel80


Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, I think we can stop focusing on what is "best" unit currently, as LVO was just won by a complete non-meta list. Granted it was the best 40k player in the world (Arguably) but still. With our dex being so tiny, we don't really have any "BAD" units, unless you count our flyers, or Blade Sisters. But those all still do great work. Just the cost is extreme in using them, versus better options.

Point being, I don't think we need to ramp up the TOP META LISTS talk, but maybe "What have you found really enjoyable/challenging?

As others have said, Bikes are in a really weird place right now, they can be powerful, but you give up a lot to run them? What about an all bike list, as EC?

What about an all Spear List? Wardens, Guardians, and Terminators, with Christopher Walken to lead them?


I think a meta is shaking out for us so I personally enjoy trying to pinpoint it (and these latest couple posts are some of the most refreshing I've seen in a tactica thread on Dakka in ages). We should, however, recognize current meta predictions are based in clay, not stone, due to how new everything is still.


good points. Ill say, tho, that the top custodes lists match the ideas I've seen bounced around in here and have been toying with my self. So I think we are already in the process of aiming towards some archetypes : )

funny thing is im building an all infantry list like you minion right now. I am using 3x3 sagittarum (we will be house ruling that they use katas, as that will be soon be faqed, I think). They seem so good off of EC rerolls.

One thing. Its a bit embarrassing actually, but I dont really get the new unstoppable destroyer. Could someone explain it to me? The new thing is the b2b thing, right? So you can never be tagged. I can see thats its good, But why is that SO good?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 20:34:04


Post by: Thairne


because with Praetorian Plate, you can yeet yourself into any combat. And then have a 4.9" pile in to anywhere. Onto an objective, into the next character, away from that hitty-thing, as long as you end in engagement range.
And then again if you consolidate, giving you more range to go onto an objective e.g.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 21:46:05


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 22:08:16


Post by: Thairne


Yes.
That way you have round about a 25% chance of it being useful when you need to do it.
Otherwise its very close to the 1 CP strat that allows you to redeploy it near a vexilla.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/01 22:21:01


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


Yes. Nothing about the praetorian plate is OP or oppressive, it only needs a clarification from GW on whether the teleport-shut was intended to count as a heroic intervention.
It is just simply a very good relic that provides flexibility and movement once per game to one model. It's not like captain Yeetus is going to win you the game singlehandedly, but it can force your opponent into difficult decisions.

I would even say that captain Yeetus is not as much an auto-take as Trajann is for example. Right now it's one of the things that are obviously strong in the new codex, and it really is, but maybe with the new missions the meta will shift and suddenly turning off obsec becomes even more valuable than it is now....then maybe even a Silent Judge Knight-Centuria might become the new hotness.

My point is that there are a lot of good options in the codex that need exploring and aside from some questionable point drops (Trajann), nothing in the codex overtly requires a nerf.




Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 01:59:13


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


Yes. Nothing about the praetorian plate is OP or oppressive, it only needs a clarification from GW on whether the teleport-shut was intended to count as a heroic intervention.
It is just simply a very good relic that provides flexibility and movement once per game to one model. It's not like captain Yeetus is going to win you the game singlehandedly, but it can force your opponent into difficult decisions.

I would even say that captain Yeetus is not as much an auto-take as Trajann is for example. Right now it's one of the things that are obviously strong in the new codex, and it really is, but maybe with the new missions the meta will shift and suddenly turning off obsec becomes even more valuable than it is now....then maybe even a Silent Judge Knight-Centuria might become the new hotness.

My point is that there are a lot of good options in the codex that need exploring and aside from some questionable point drops (Trajann), nothing in the codex overtly requires a nerf.




Dude, take a step back, and look at this objectively. We literally run with a faction that has basic troops that rival most faction's HQ options. Our best HQ is in many ways equal or above Bobby G. Our "worst unit" would possibly be wardens, and even they are still a bonkers unit for 50ppm.

We have some really silly stuff, comparable to other armies. I'm not saying nerf us like the IH or the Castellan, but Trajann needs a look, and our bikes need a look, and the Yeetus needs a review. Bikes might need a small points increase. They are scary good now. Maybe reduce max squad size from 6 to 3? Yeetus is too good I feel personally, and needs some form of restriction. If distance is too harsh, than there should be a restriction on actions. After using, unit is unable to move for the rest of the turn.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 06:49:27


Post by: Tiberias


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


Yes. Nothing about the praetorian plate is OP or oppressive, it only needs a clarification from GW on whether the teleport-shut was intended to count as a heroic intervention.
It is just simply a very good relic that provides flexibility and movement once per game to one model. It's not like captain Yeetus is going to win you the game singlehandedly, but it can force your opponent into difficult decisions.

I would even say that captain Yeetus is not as much an auto-take as Trajann is for example. Right now it's one of the things that are obviously strong in the new codex, and it really is, but maybe with the new missions the meta will shift and suddenly turning off obsec becomes even more valuable than it is now....then maybe even a Silent Judge Knight-Centuria might become the new hotness.

My point is that there are a lot of good options in the codex that need exploring and aside from some questionable point drops (Trajann), nothing in the codex overtly requires a nerf.




Dude, take a step back, and look at this objectively. We literally run with a faction that has basic troops that rival most faction's HQ options. Our best HQ is in many ways equal or above Bobby G. Our "worst unit" would possibly be wardens, and even they are still a bonkers unit for 50ppm.

We have some really silly stuff, comparable to other armies. I'm not saying nerf us like the IH or the Castellan, but Trajann needs a look, and our bikes need a look, and the Yeetus needs a review. Bikes might need a small points increase. They are scary good now. Maybe reduce max squad size from 6 to 3? Yeetus is too good I feel personally, and needs some form of restriction. If distance is too harsh, than there should be a restriction on actions. After using, unit is unable to move for the rest of the turn.


I am trying my best here to engage you in a positive way since the last tactica thread. But considering the usual content of your posts, you did not really just tell me to take a step back and look at this objectively. Because considering how bad your track record is of assessing our faction, combined with your constant extreme pessimism...that would be somewhat hilarious.

But don't take it from me. Take it from other people in this very thread who are repeatedly telling you not to be that pessimistic about our faction, because there is really no grounds for it.

As for your points: if you change the castellan mark to only be able to port 9" away from enemies, you are killing the relic. Trajann going down in points was unwarranted, I agree with you and even said so multiple times.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 09:21:11


Post by: KGYM


Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


then maybe even a Silent Judge Knight-Centuria might become the new hotness.



I actually tried her, and she has her merits. When I went and contested the midboard, my opponent had to pull back the psyker line and effectively conceded the middle objective. She has problems with LOS, but the only real drawback is the slot use.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 12:03:22


Post by: Scoundrel80


I was wondering if anyone has printet the kata-texts out and put them on cards to have them sorted? if so, could you be bothered post the files here?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 12:12:34


Post by: Thairne


there are some on the TableTopTitans Discord


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 12:35:14


Post by: Scoundrel80


yeah, I heard about that but for SOME REASON I can't join anything on discord anymore. it asks me to "claim my account" but its not possible for me. so when I accept the invite, the browser window just times out. its so annoying.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 14:03:45


Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz


Tiberias wrote:


My point is that there are a lot of good options in the codex that need exploring and aside from some questionable point drops (Trajann), nothing in the codex overtly requires a nerf.




Since I don’t own a Blade Wizard (Yet) One of my favorite builds right now is Aquilan Shield - Shield Captain with shield and sword for the +1 Armor save.
Then give him the relic Praesidius for subtract 1 from that attack's wound roll.
Revered Companion for halve the damage characteristic of an attack (rounding up).
Superior Creation - 5+ FNP
Swift as the Eagle - charge with in a turn in which it Advanced.

Run him at something and charge. He’s a hell of a roadblock/beatstick, plus he buys you time to get your troops into position to take an objective or have them charge the same unit next turn. He’s fun...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
KGYM wrote:


I actually tried her, and she has her merits. When I went and contested the midboard, my opponent had to pull back the psyker line and effectively conceded the middle objective. She has problems with LOS, but the only real drawback is the slot use.


Interesting...To be honest I haven’t even looked at the traits and relics for the SOS until this post. Did you group her with any sisters or use a Rhino to keep her “somewhat” safe? I want to use some SOS, but haven’t really thought of a good list to use them yet.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 14:56:03


Post by: Eihnlazer


If you give him the relic shield for -1 to be wounded he actually looses the +1 to save, which probably ironically makes the AS trait of ignoring AP1 actually do something.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 15:13:41


Post by: The Red Hobbit


KGYM wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
My only concern is that Praetorian plate is essentially useless in it's 8th form. In it's 9th form, it's become auto-take. Surely there has to be some form of inbetween? Would >9" be too much of a nerf?


then maybe even a Silent Judge Knight-Centuria might become the new hotness.



I actually tried her, and she has her merits. When I went and contested the midboard, my opponent had to pull back the psyker line and effectively conceded the middle objective. She has problems with LOS, but the only real drawback is the slot use.


Similar experience for me, I find Silent Judge extremely powerful but it does take up a valuable HQ slot.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 17:00:38


Post by: Scoundrel80


guys, im so torn. I can't decide whats best for back field holdings: 1 allarus or 5 prosecutors. opinions?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 18:13:33


Post by: Audustum


Scoundrel80 wrote:
guys, im so torn. I can't decide whats best for back field holdings: 1 allarus or 5 prosecutors. opinions?


It's 5 Prosecutors. The Allarus is better for going into your opponent's backline. He's obsec, counts as 2 models and can reliably clear little 5-man backfield objective holders the turn after he lands. He requires a commitment from your opponent to unshift grossly disproportionate to your commitment in putting him there.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 18:14:52


Post by: Scoundrel80


Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [99 PL, 11CP, 2,052pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain in Allarus Terminator Armor [8 PL, -2CP, 135pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Castellan Axe, Praetorian Plate, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Unstoppable Destroyer

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Guardian Spear: 3x Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Guardian Spear: 3x Guardian Spear

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [6 PL, 130pts]
. 2x Allarus w/ Castellan Axe: 2x Balistus Grenade Launcher, 2x Castellan Axe

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear

Custodian Wardens [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Warden w/ Castellan Axe: 3x Castellan Axe

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

++ Total: [99 PL, 11CP, 1982pts] ++


Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [96 PL, 10CP, 2,017pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -2CP, 190pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Auric Aquilas, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent

Custodian Wardens [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Warden w/ Castellan Axe: 3x Castellan Axe

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

++ Total: [96 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++



these are the tw EC lists om pondering for tomorrow. First is pure infantry but seems very potent, imo. The second is probably better. more balanced and more versatile. Any comments on both lists (or just the best) are very welcomed.

Nb. The points are adjusted with the CA changes and I presume sagittarums have katas. also, all have misericordias but only sagittarum pay.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 18:20:42


Post by: Thairne


I think you overinvest in troops.
Custodian Guard are nothing "special".
Saggitarum are ok, but can fall flat when faced with hordes.
I'd prefer getting a 3rd HQ instead of an additional squad of Guard.
Otherwise, the 2nd list doesnt look bad at all


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 18:24:39


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Did CA change the Warden Squad size or can I call BS wrong? It still shows 3-10, and the french version shows 3-10. It just seems odd when everything else is capped at 6.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 19:00:35


Post by: Scoundrel80


 Thairne wrote:
I think you overinvest in troops.
Custodian Guard are nothing "special".
Saggitarum are ok, but can fall flat when faced with hordes.
I'd prefer getting a 3rd HQ instead of an additional squad of Guard.
Otherwise, the 2nd list doesnt look bad at all


Yeah. You’re right. I tend to always over invest in troops. Same with my space marine lists which is arguably even worse I take it you don’t like the infantry list at all then? I just feel 32 custodians seems so good. 3 allarus hold the back objectives and the rest power forward and take the board. Maybe even deepstrike the last 4 allarus.

The second list is probably better. Thing is, I just always seem to do better when I have a lot of assets. By your logic would you say I should scrap 2 troop units and buy me a second dreadnaught and a plate cappy then?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 19:08:29


Post by: Thairne


well you do you, if that is what works for you - though I think that number of assets is best covered with SoS now.

In my rankings, there's basically the following list
HQ
Bikes
Dreads
Terminators
Troops

Spamming the worst unit we get (though calling guardians the worst is kinda a tough call ) is not the best idea.
So by that logic, I'd drop one troop unit and get yourself either a HQ or a Dread for that pts.
7 Salvos is nice, but are not enough to kill a LR reliably if you fail to wound.
So there's a case to be made for an achillus or the like.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 20:16:51


Post by: Scoundrel80


wonderful points, thairne. Love it.

in all fairness, i am spamming sags ; )

but yeah, I should cut one. would you cut a sag unit or the shield unit?

I used to have 2 galatus in there but didn't like that it can't have EP now. Felt sub par then. Your archillus argument is strong. didnt think of that. Felt 7 salvo should do it. hmm.. Its either one of those or a plate cap, I think.

Do you think the dense vex is needed for the mid board? I mean, the LVO runner up didn't run one. But the two other top8s did.







Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 20:25:05


Post by: Audustum


Scoundrel80 wrote:
wonderful points, thairne. Love it.

in all fairness, i am spamming sags ; )

but yeah, I should cut one. would you cut a sag unit or the shield unit?

I used to have 2 galatus in there but didn't like that it can't have EP now. Felt sub par then. Your archillus argument is strong. didnt think of that. Felt 7 salvo should do it. hmm.. Its either one of those or a plate cap, I think.

Do you think the dense vex is needed for the mid board? I mean, the LVO runner up didn't run one. But the two other top8s did.



This is just some theory I ran across, but there is anticipation that the new Tau and Eldar Codices (particularly Tau) will shift the flag preference back over to the Dense cover flag. New Tau isn't out yet which would explain, according to that theory, why the flag wasn't flying at LVO.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 21:25:53


Post by: Thairne


You can expect 3 wounds reasonably which should take one out at ~59%. But it kinda is a gamble. 2 will do it if you roll max, but thats not that likely.
So not being able to tag 1 LR per turn with all your AT is kinda a sad state
Imo, an Achillus is for pushing and a Galatus is for holding your weaker flank, buying you a turn.
So having a Galatus without EP is not that bad I think.
A dense vex however never is wrong, depending on your expected matchups


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 21:48:38


Post by: Salt donkey


I’m seeing a lot of the term “worst unit in the book” being thrown out with “Landraider” not being in the sentence. It’s ok though. Forgetting it exists in competitive discussion makes perfect sense, so I’ll just assume people mean “worst non-landraider unit” when they use that term.


Agreed that magnifica will become the default choice once Tau and eldar hit the scene, as both have lots of high AP in comparison to crusher stampede and thicc city.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 21:49:25


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Does anyone here actually play competitive for tracked points, 40k?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 21:58:55


Post by: Salt donkey




“Dude, take a step back, and look at this objectively. We literally run with a faction that has basic troops that rival most faction's HQ options. Our best HQ is in many ways equal or above Bobby G. Our "worst unit" would possibly be wardens, and even they are still a bonkers unit for 50ppm.

We have some really silly stuff, comparable to other armies. I'm not saying nerf us like the IH or the Castellan, but Trajann needs a look, and our bikes need a look, and the Yeetus needs a review. Bikes might need a small points increase. They are scary good now. Maybe reduce max squad size from 6 to 3? Yeetus is too good I feel personally, and needs some form of restriction. If distance is too harsh, than there should be a restriction on actions. After using, unit is unable to move for the rest of the turn.


I am trying my best here to engage you in a positive way since the last tactica thread. But considering the usual content of your posts, you did not really just tell me to take a step back and look at this objectively. Because considering how bad your track record is of assessing our faction, combined with your constant extreme pessimism...that would be somewhat hilarious.

But don't take it from me. Take it from other people in this very thread who are repeatedly telling you not to be that pessimistic about our faction, because there is really no grounds for it.

As for your points: if you change the castellan mark to only be able to port 9" away from enemies, you are killing the relic. Trajann going down in points was unwarranted, I agree with you and even said so multiple times.”




While don’t agree with many things Fezzik has said I think it’s bit harsh to attack his opinions based on past comments. That’s simply a logical fallacy that ignores the actually content of his argument (although you address this later) . Going on that I could say you didn’t have a very favorable opinion of the codex when it was first revealed either Tiberius. So therefore we should just ignore your current opinion for being wrong/pessimistic in the past right?

Edit: messed up the Quote system.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/02 22:00:53


Post by: Scoundrel80


 Thairne wrote:
You can expect 3 wounds reasonably which should take one out at ~59%. But it kinda is a gamble. 2 will do it if you roll max, but thats not that likely.
So not being able to tag 1 LR per turn with all your AT is kinda a sad state
Imo, an Achillus is for pushing and a Galatus is for holding your weaker flank, buying you a turn.
So having a Galatus without EP is not that bad I think.
A dense vex however never is wrong, depending on your expected matchups


This one is vs orks. The dense banner Can wreck their shooting. But im not sure i would just auto run the vex in general right now. Pre new book i always ran it. But it leans into a certain way of playing custards and I feel the army has a lot more dynamics to it now. On the other hand, one could argue that no 3++ makes the banner even more relevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [98 PL, 10CP, 2,018pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -2CP, 190pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Auric Aquilas, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Tip of the Spear

Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Allarus Custodians [3 PL, 65pts]
. Allarus w/ Guardian Spear

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 160pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent

Custodian Wardens [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Warden w/ Castellan Axe: 3x Castellan Axe

Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, 105pts]: Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher

++ Total: [98 PL, 10CP, 1965pts] ++


Ok, so this is where im at now. Took out a saggitarum, added a achillus and have 35 points left.

I feel I have to be able to hold to objectives in the back so I included an allarus. but im not sattisfied. I need one more or a prosecutor squad. Or maybe swop the allarus, drop the shield guards down to spear guards and get 2x5 prosecutors. Or 2x1 allarus for the same battlefield role.

a different approach could be to drop both saggitarum guard squads to either spear or shield and free up points that way.

I could also just up the achillus for another galatus. I really dont like the 5++ on that one. even if the dread spear hurts.

I feel troops are better, than we give them credit for. The LVO runner up ran 4, and I think the only reason none of them were sag guards was, that they didn't have katah (technically they still dont have).

any suggestions on how to tune the list? (opponent is orcs, btw)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 01:36:48


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I would skip Eternal Penitent on the Dread to save CP. Is your opponent playing lots of buggies or lots of boys or somewhere in the middle?

If you're playing against a lot of buggies don't forget the Ramshackle rule so the Achillus dread will come in handy with high strength attacks that are D3 or D3+3.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 08:34:09


Post by: KGYM


Audustum wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
guys, im so torn. I can't decide whats best for back field holdings: 1 allarus or 5 prosecutors. opinions?


It's 5 Prosecutors. The Allarus is better for going into your opponent's backline. He's obsec, counts as 2 models and can reliably clear little 5-man backfield objective holders the turn after he lands. He requires a commitment from your opponent to unshift grossly disproportionate to your commitment in putting him there.


Why not both? Tried it yesterday: 5 Prosecutors and a PP Cap waiting on the home obj. No LOS shooting and DS units reaped down the Prosecutors, PP Cap had to move in to kill, so I DSd one of my Allarus Termies on that objective, instead of going with the other two in the opponents deploy. I find it very powerful to have the option to use one to defend your backfield if the opponent turns out to have significant no LOS shooting, fast units or capable deep strike.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 20:59:40


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


For 75 points, why not just plonk down a Rhino, way harder to shift and not much worse in shooting.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 21:05:09


Post by: Scoundrel80


a little follow up on my list and how it went today vs orks.

I went with
Spoiler:



+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Detachment Type / Shield Host: Adeptus Custodes, Emperor's Chosen

+ HQ +

Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [10 PL, -2CP, 190pts]: (Emperor's Chosen): Auric Exemplar, 3. Superior Creation, Salvo Launcher, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Stratagem: Victor of the Blood Games, Tip of the Spear
Trajann Valoris [9 PL, 1CP, 170pts]

+ Troops +
Custodian Guard Squad [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Custodian w/ Sentinel Blade & Praesidium Shield: 3x Praesidium Shield, 3x Sentinel Blade
Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia
Sagittarum Custodians [7 PL, 159pts]
. 3x Sagittarum w/ Misericordia: 3x Adrastus Bolt Caliver, 3x Misericordia

+ Elites +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [9 PL, 160pts]: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter
Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought [9 PL, -1CP, 170pts]: Stratagem: Eternal Penitent
Custodian Wardens [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Warden w/ Castellan Axe: 3x Castellan Axe
Vexilus Praetor [6 PL, -1CP, 105pts]: 4. Impregnable Mind, Castellan Axe, Stratagem: The Emperor's Heroes, Vexilla Magnifica

+ Fast Attack +
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher
Vertus Praetors [12 PL, 270pts]
. 3x Praetor w/ Salvo Launcher: 3x Interceptor Lance, 3x Salvo Launcher
Witchseekers [8 PL, 98pts]: Witchseeker Sister Superior
. 6x Witchseeker: 6x Witchseeker Flamer

++ Total: [103 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


And everyone has mesericordias.

I couldn't decide on prosecs or allarus and couldn't afford both, so I somehow brainfarted myself into.. 7 witch seekers! haha idk what I was thingking. just Seemed right.

I won the game narrowly and only because I got 15-15 primary the first two turns and some how managed to score engage and max out attrition and stranglehold twice before he got a foothold with his reserves and some strong plays. at that point my guys started dying big time. And would have been worse was it not for the EC 4+++ vs mortals. I really overestimated the durability sans the 3++. played way too aggressive. gave away too many targets and couldn't cover them all with strats. Even though I didn't dominate the game per se and felt the pressure constantly ( i was pretty much on tilt from t2), in hindsight, I feel the shock and awe tactic that stunned the green skins just enough to eek out a win was actually pretty cool
: )

a few takeaways:

- omg strat-endurance does not compare to the good ol 3++. Our characters have been buffed accordingly, and the +1w makes bikes ok'ish. But our infantry? I feel they should all just have had another wound. The dam level of the game has made a frogleap since 8th and custards die to easy now. doesn't reflect the lore enough, imo. At the same time I didn't like the army wide (more or less) 3++, so +1w would be perfect for me.

- The bikes are so good. They still die, but the new salvo launcher and the option to go for the second stance of the first kata in the first turn make them a huge alpha strike tool. I debated doing that t1, but ended up rolling 2d6 discard one on advances. still, the 2x3 bikes where amazing. they sniped all his mechanized stuff. 2 rocket buggies, 3 mek kanons and other stuff. So efficient with EC rerolls. and they kick as in melee too with that +1 to wound.

- my dreadnaughts underperformed. the galatus has always been an mvp for me in the past. but today they both just Died to massive ork shooty. the galatus killed 17 boys in one turn though which was pretty cool. The Achilles got 2 shots off and got eaten by a dinosaur.

- Trajan and the bike cap more or less won the game for me. they just were heroes and amongst otter things managed 8-9 inch charges to clear ALL his reserves on one flank t3. he came in to my left backfield with 3 defkoptas and 5 storm boys and looked really strong after my guys had gone forward to take the board and had came to a halt on the mid obj after a terrible ork charge with 20 boys and a squig dino kunning boss. Trajan and the cap fought in the center at that point but then turned around and beat the reserves away after long charges (helping fire from 2 surviving sag guards). They then took back the objective. it was glorius. Had this not worked out I am pretty sure I would have lost. I just couldn't allow those Coptas to shot again.

- those 7 silly flame girls? they were amazing. they advance and shoot 12 inch 7d6 s4 hits with -1 ap, that gets s5 for 1cp, every turn or camp an objective been very hard to charge. in my game the scorched away 5 kommandoes and mopped up the rest of 2 20 man boys squads and were key in the late game. the pregame move is good! probably not a top tier unit, though.

- saggitarum and wardens just got killed way to easily. the shield guards were a bit better, but very dull offensively and not very resilient at all. the sags got some good shots off, though, and the wardens played they body guard role decently.

- the vex. I want two. maybe even a light cover one too.

- i was so glad i didn't have allarus. I would have cried when they just would get smashed with their 4++. 2 missed saves and its over. everything is 2-3 flat.

- highly recommend having impregnable mind on the vex. he is often deep in the center. worked well. I dont think the ork caster got anything through between the +1 deny and the flamegirls -1 to cast. Another reason to consider the mobile flamers maybe. they get up the field which makes the anti psychic more relevant.

All in all, it was a nerve-racking game. I felt my whole army was about to explode all the time : ) but I LOVE the new book still. think it will be tough, though, when people get used to the book.

thanks for all your tips through the last couple days.









Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 21:50:32


Post by: Thairne


You understand now why I told you to minimize troops?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 22:08:18


Post by: Scoundrel80


 Thairne wrote:
You understand now why I told you to minimize troops?


yes. and I did as you told me. but with less troops (like 3x5 prosecutors) I think it would have been very, very hard to hold the board. Maybe 3x3 standard guard with spear will be the standard. better than 3x5 prosecutors and the cheapest troop tax outside if sisters. for 45 more you get shields.

honestly, im a bit lost on were to go from this. I checked the LVO lists too. staple units seem to be: Trajan, 2x3 bikes, galatus/archillus and either plate cap or bike cap. I run all that too.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 22:08:59


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I would also say don't dismiss units or styles in a vacuum. Over 500 games, I bet you Wardens would earn more points back than troops.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/03 22:50:24


Post by: Scoundrel80


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I would also say don't dismiss units or styles in a vacuum. Over 500 games, I bet you Wardens would earn more points back than troops.


yeah, probably. they saved the vex and Trajan for a lot of trouble today. I dont regret taking them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok so if we go cheap on troops (we can only buy one prosecutor squad if we have 2 guard) it looks like this.

trajann
bike cap

2x3 spear guard
5xprosecutor

galatus
galatus
3x warden
vex

2x3 bikes

that leaves around 190 points. were do we go from there?

- fill the last 2 eliteslot with squads of 1 and 2 allarus?
- buy I third dreadnaught
- buy a plate cap
- buy a second vex. maybe the light cover one.
- Something else?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 02:18:37


Post by: Eihnlazer


Hmm....... actually for your list I'd pick up a caladius with blaze cannon.


You can drop the wardens and pick up another spear guard squad to put you dead even on points.

Blaze cannon in EC isnt bad at all with the reroll.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 03:18:19


Post by: Salt donkey


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Hmm....... actually for your list I'd pick up a caladius with blaze cannon.


You can drop the wardens and pick up another spear guard squad to put you dead even on points.

Blaze cannon in EC isnt bad at all with the reroll.


Why does he need a caladuis though? With 2 bike squads and the dreadnoughts he has a pretty reasonable amount of shooting already. With new missions favoring mid-board presence 2 single terminators and another prosecutor squad seems like a nicer choice.

There’s also the fact that dropping the wardens down to spear guardians is a massive downgrade. Wardens after all are a unit people want at least 1 of, while guardians are a unit most take as a tax.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 11:06:21


Post by: Eihnlazer


downgrading to wardens gets him the caladius, and the caladius gives him something he lacks (str9 shooting).

The caladius has an additional benefit of being fairly mobile.

Currently he only has the 2 bike squads to hit the flanks quickly, which your gonna mostly want to do on the same side.

He can send the caladius to the opposite side of the field if nessecary to grab a point and will require some dedication to remove.

With the new fall back and shoot strat, the tanks are much more useful for the midfield than they were before.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 11:26:24


Post by: Thairne


Scoundrel80 wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
You understand now why I told you to minimize troops?


yes. and I did as you told me. but with less troops (like 3x5 prosecutors) I think it would have been very, very hard to hold the board. Maybe 3x3 standard guard with spear will be the standard. better than 3x5 prosecutors and the cheapest troop tax outside if sisters. for 45 more you get shields.

honestly, im a bit lost on were to go from this. I checked the LVO lists too. staple units seem to be: Trajan, 2x3 bikes, galatus/archillus and either plate cap or bike cap. I run all that too.


Friendly reminder that you cant use 3x5 prosecs as troops anyway. 2 Custodian Guard/Sags are the minimum anyway. I usually run 2x Guard and 2x Prosecs for the case that I run into a 2/3 more mission.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 13:06:34


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I wonder what value the Caladius has now with it's cost, it's easy to kill T7 platform, degrading. It's got all the problems of the hammerhead, with weaker shooting. No, I'd rather just take two more bikers, so 2x4 bikes. Better for AT and better for ablative wounds. If you drop the Wardens, you are basically giving the enemy a really easy way to Trajann.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 13:19:50


Post by: Darkseid


The FW update just dropped with the following changes:

Page 83 – Custodian Guard with Adrasite and Pyrithite Spears
• Change the Damage characteristic of the Adrasite spear (melee) profile to ‘2’.
• Change the Damage characteristic of the Pyrithite spear (melee) profile to ‘2’.

Page 83, 84, 85, 86 – Custodian Guard with Adrasite and Pyrithite Spears, Sagittarum Custodians, Aquilon Custodians, Agamatus Custodians, Venatari Custodians
• Add the following ability to the Abilities section of these units:
‘Martial ka’tah (see Codex: Adeptus Custodes)’
• Change the Leadership characteristic of models in these units to ‘11’.

Page 84 – Aquilon Custodians, Keywords
Add the ‘Teleport Homer’ keyword.

Page 84, 85 – Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought, Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought
• Add the ‘Core’ keyword to the Keywords section of these units.
• Change the Leadership characteristic of models in these units to ‘11’.

Page 86 – Pallas Grav-attack
Change the Leadership characteristic of models in this unit to ‘11’.

Page 88, 89, 90 – Caladius Grav-tank, Coronus Grav-carrier, Orion Assault Dropship, Ares Gunship
• Add the ‘Machine Spirit’ keyword to the Keywords section of these units.
• Change the Leadership characteristic of models in these units to ‘11’.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 13:41:16


Post by: Tiberias


So this just in: FW Compendium FAQ went up and nothing really changed. Leadership updates and the melta spears and adrasite spears went to dmg2 in melee.

No auric weapon keyword on anything.

Edit: beat me by a minute.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The balance datalsate also didn't affect anyone besides Dark eldar? Strange.

Also there seems to be no FAQ for our codex.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 13:58:35


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Thank god they updated our Vehicles to Ld 11!

And I think it's hilarious that they waited until now to update the spear damage, and then forgot to update Agamatus spear damage, which is still d3. Clown show.

At least we know now that our FW infantry get Katas, including Venetari!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:08:21


Post by: Darkseid


Pretty disappointed that the A&P spears didn’t get the auric weapons keyword.

Machine spirit on our tanks is nice though, at least they get the option to use top profile for 1CP

The Achillus and Galatus being core isn’t new, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
! And I think it's hilarious that they waited until now to update the spear damage, and then forgot to update Agamatus spear damage, which is still d3. Clown


Sometimes I get the impression, that GW is unconfortable to have FW models around so they do a half-arsed job of supporting their rules.

Anyway, they should make Agamatus spears damage 3, so at least this unit would be worth a consideration


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:17:47


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


We knew they were losing core, I think. It was in the leaks. But more importantly, we had hoped they would gain Katas. I'm actually not surprised Pyrite and other spear didn't get Auric. Wouldn't want Guardians running around double shooting Meltas in everyone's face at 16" in Salvus.

Still, kinda hilarious that they gave it to Trajann's axe, and Ser Walken's spear.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:28:32


Post by: Audustum


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We knew they were losing core, I think. It was in the leaks. But more importantly, we had hoped they would gain Katas. I'm actually not surprised Pyrite and other spear didn't get Auric. Wouldn't want Guardians running around double shooting Meltas in everyone's face at 16" in Salvus.

Still, kinda hilarious that they gave it to Trajann's axe, and Ser Walken's spear.


Nobody lost CORE. They said they were adding CORE to the Galatus/Achillus, but that was silly because I think they already had CORE.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:31:48


Post by: Tiberias


Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We knew they were losing core, I think. It was in the leaks. But more importantly, we had hoped they would gain Katas. I'm actually not surprised Pyrite and other spear didn't get Auric. Wouldn't want Guardians running around double shooting Meltas in everyone's face at 16" in Salvus.

Still, kinda hilarious that they gave it to Trajann's axe, and Ser Walken's spear.


Nobody lost CORE. They said they were adding CORE to the Galatus/Achillus, but that was silly because I think they already had CORE.


Correct, the Achillus and Galatus already had the CORE keyword.

I mean this "update", if you even want to call it that, is not terrible but it really feels half arsed by GW.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:35:17


Post by: The Red Hobbit


That's disappointing that none of the FW models received the Auric weapons keyword


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:38:50


Post by: Darkseid


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
That's disappointing that none of the FW models received the Auric weapons keyword


At this point I’m not sure whoever wrote that FAQ knows that this keyword exists

At least they did the basics and sprinkled machine spirit on top


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 14:40:01


Post by: Audustum


Tiberias wrote:
Audustum wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
We knew they were losing core, I think. It was in the leaks. But more importantly, we had hoped they would gain Katas. I'm actually not surprised Pyrite and other spear didn't get Auric. Wouldn't want Guardians running around double shooting Meltas in everyone's face at 16" in Salvus.

Still, kinda hilarious that they gave it to Trajann's axe, and Ser Walken's spear.


Nobody lost CORE. They said they were adding CORE to the Galatus/Achillus, but that was silly because I think they already had CORE.


Correct, the Achillus and Galatus already had the CORE keyword.

I mean this "update", if you even want to call it that, is not terrible but it really feels half arsed by GW.


Quell surprise!.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 15:17:45


Post by: Eihnlazer


They messed up alot of stuff. This was a pretty lazy update.

They forgot to bring the telemon to Ld11.

They forgot to bring the spears up to str7.

They didnt update the weapons that needed updates.

Piss poor.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 16:14:34


Post by: The Red Hobbit


Wow they didn't even bother making the spears S7? Seems like an afterthought update, shame.

On the topic of FW spears has anyone had success with the Pyrithite spears?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/04 17:29:33


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Can the argument be made, that GW doesn't care at all about FW updates? If only through a business expectation, FW books don't sell nearly as well as GW books, so they put in less effort? When you crack these books, does it say who wrote the rules? Is there an about the team section or anything? Is it always the same people?

Is there any reason to even buy the physical books, because we know it'll be invalidated on the first update when they have to correct mistakes and update words?

Do we know if the GW 40k app has properly updated yet for custodes?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 00:16:28


Post by: EviscerationPlague


Nope, that's why you wait for Battlescribe to update LOL


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 00:25:08


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Battlescribe already entered the Custodes dex, they just haven't done the CA yet.

Also, didn't I hear that BS is shutting down, and it's going to be completely run by non-paid peoples? So no more on time updates then?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 08:49:39


Post by: xerxeskingofking


FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Battlescribe already entered the Custodes dex, they just haven't done the CA yet.

Also, didn't I hear that BS is shutting down, and it's going to be completely run by non-paid peoples? So no more on time updates then?


The core software isn't getting updated, the programmer has gone dark for over a year. Its basically a time bomb before a update to the phone operating system breaks battlescibe


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 10:38:26


Post by: Scoundrel80


im playing vs DG now. does tanglefoot get hosed by inexorable advance ability? also, they ignore forests -2 to move, right?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 11:14:47


Post by: Salt donkey


Scoundrel80 wrote:
im playing vs DG now. does tanglefoot get hosed by inexorable advance ability? also, they ignore forests -2 to move, right?


I also just played against DG (and also have an army of them on the shelf right now). You are correct that models with inexorable advance ignore tanglefoot and forests. This does not include poxwalkers though.

That said we absolutely crush DG as I won easily despite numerous misplays (although neither of us where playing optimized lists, he was running Typhus, a min plague marine unit, and a 5 man blightlord terminator unit, while I ran 4 terminators and upgrades over a 2nd salvo bike squad)


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 12:19:53


Post by: Thairne


Is anyone else worried about the next codexes?
It seems like just like d3 was turned into 2D, now it seems like D6 is being turned into D3+3.
And weapons like that usually have ap-2 or better.
That means that a single failed roll of a 4++ will kill any non-HQ infantry model and has enough power to dismantle any non-telemon dreadnought with 2 hits.
It looks like Custodes may actually be up to be the next victim after Marines now that 2D is oversaturated and 4D is becoming the minimum value for big guns as well.
Paying for defense you just dont get to use is one of the worst things that can happen to you-


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 12:36:53


Post by: Tiberias


Scoundrel80 wrote:im playing vs DG now. does tanglefoot get hosed by inexorable advance ability? also, they ignore forests -2 to move, right?


You are correct. Inexorable advance ignores the tanglefoot penalty.

Thairne wrote:Is anyone else worried about the next codexes?
It seems like just like d3 was turned into 2D, now it seems like D6 is being turned into D3+3.
And weapons like that usually have ap-2 or better.
That means that a single failed roll of a 4++ will kill any non-HQ infantry model and has enough power to dismantle any non-telemon dreadnought with 2 hits.
It looks like Custodes may actually be up to be the next victim after Marines now that 2D is oversaturated and 4D is becoming the minimum value for big guns as well.
Paying for defense you just dont get to use is one of the worst things that can happen to you-


Not particularly. We have so many threats on the board now that it's really difficult for an opponent to deal with everything until we get close enough to munch them.
We have to think about our units a bit differently, especially custodian guard. They are no longer an immovable object that can hold an objective forever. They are literally throw away troops that you shouldn't waste your stratagems on. If they roll hot on their 4+ invuln, nice...if they die, they die *insert Ivan drago meme*
Our survivability is now very closely tied to our stratagems and those have to be used on bikes, terminators or other more valuable stuff.

Also, we are codex herohammer now anyway, so who cares if more of our stuff does as long as the characters are bonkers enough to pull a lot of weight.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 15:21:55


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I'll take the D3+3 shift anyday. I'm so glad they killed the swinginess of anti-tank weapons. Paying for all that LC firepower and then rolling a 1 for damage was brutal. I think you should get hurt when getting hit with big weapons. That being said, they went overboard with a few weapons, turning them from assault platforms into heavy AT, mostly Melta grade stuff. That I think is a big failing of 9th.

But Tanks should be afraid of Fire dragons, and LCs. Now they are.

People seem to think 4+ is not good enough. 4+ is still 50%. With a reroll, it's even better. Also, if your opponent is wasting AT on your infantry, that means they aren't wasting it on your giant golden death bots.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 16:12:40


Post by: Scoundrel80


Salt donkey wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
im playing vs DG now. does tanglefoot get hosed by inexorable advance ability? also, they ignore forests -2 to move, right?


I also just played against DG (and also have an army of them on the shelf right now). You are correct that models with inexorable advance ignore tanglefoot and forests. This does not include poxwalkers though.

That said we absolutely crush DG as I won easily despite numerous misplays (although neither of us where playing optimized lists, he was running Typhus, a min plague marine unit, and a 5 man blightlord terminator unit, while I ran 4 terminators and upgrades over a 2nd salvo bike squad)


thanks!

yeah I did win the match. 72-41. he played a somewhat wonky list. 10man termies buffed by tallyman was brutal but not very agile. he then had morty and only one plagueburst. he normally always runs 3 giving me big problems. his plan was to score 15 off of to the last and then have poxies on the points and teleport in 2x3 of those insane termies. Deatshrouds I think. He also ran the lord of virulence with his nasty flamethrower and a plague caster. very elite and pretty strong.

this was my second game with the new custodes and this time I got it all right. I played very conservatively and kept all my bikes back for 2 turns just sniping and hiding. it worked really well as I could cover a lot of ground by boing into the advance and shoot stance t2 and keep them relevant for the second part of the game. I managed to go up and points and then retreat and control the pace of the game and not get struck by all the contagion auras until I had whittled him down and could manage.

And then there was mortarion. I got 7 salvos in on him t1 and gave him just 4 wounds. but It scared him of so he didn't dare frontal assaulting (which I think they should always do with him). I had made a tarpit for him in the centre with 3wardens, 3 spears, light cover vex (he was sooo good. never tried him before.) with axe and Trajan. The bikes were zipping around so if he went all in with forty I would have a shot at actually killing him. So instead he actually did nothing for 2 turns. He then cleared the left flank and started going after my guys. in the end I caught him mid field with basically all the aforementioned plus my Achilles that had been preoccupied with some of those teleporting termies in my back field. I went into the "6s autowound monsters" stance and still couldn't kill Mortarion with all that. I think. there was 4 bikes alive and the bike cap. thats 5 melta missiles, all the shooting from the axes/spears plus all the archillus shooting. I then charged with everything and got him down to4 wounds WITH trajanns fight again ability! the layering on that guy is brutal vs custodes. -1 dam, 4++/5+++ and no rerolls. t8 hurts too. Morty then wiped the warden squad (think he intervened with his last CP, so they couldn't harm him) and on his next turn I finally got him. I was very much in doubt if I even should have gone for him. It cost me 5 VP and 2 more for engage, but I would get those 5 back through to the last and with mortarion gone there was no way he could come back in the game, so I figured lets go. I also wanted to see how much It typically takes for the army to get him down but the clever play at that point would have been to ignore him and just score points, I think. No reason to put your self in his way and I had him in a position where he had to leave an objective marker to go do stuff. fine by me. Either way; it worked. But I dont think I want to fight him ever again.

The armor save vex was so amazingly good in this game. much better Than the dense vex in my last game. and that was vs orks who hate that banner!

the Katas really mattered here and I can see how those can be amazing when I really figure them out after getting some reps in.

my dreadnaughts did better this time, but they just die way to easy.

i want to love the EC strat, but because it has to be used in command phase, I find it a bit underwhelming when it actually counts. I end up just using it for fall back and charge a few times. a bit meh. oh, I also used it to get fight first at one point, and that was brutal. I know you can do the "make on guy make a whole unit -1 attack" but I find it hard to actually plan and make work.

i didnt miss my 3x3 sagittarums at all.

I ran 2x1 allarus. 1 teleported in to score engage and harass a 1 w tallyman. it was beautiful. the other just held a back field objective all game. He took some fire and shot back and was just an allround boss. I really likethose guys. Would love to run more, actually.











Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 16:21:51


Post by: Thairne


Tiberias wrote:
[
We have to think about our units a bit differently, especially custodian guard. They are no longer an immovable object that can hold an objective forever. They are literally throw away troops that you shouldn't waste your stratagems on. If they roll hot on their 4+ invuln, nice...if they die, they die *insert Ivan drago meme*
Our survivability is now very closely tied to our stratagems and those have to be used on bikes, terminators or other more valuable stuff.

Also, we are codex herohammer now anyway, so who cares if more of our stuff does as long as the characters are bonkers enough to pull a lot of weight.



This.. is true. It hurts, because thats not why I play custodes. If I want chaff, I play guard, admech or basically any other army except maybe.. grey knights?
But that just means that Shield Guard are on their way out and "standard" spear guard are your best bang for your buck.
But throwaway Custodes.. that just feels very, very wrong.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 16:22:19


Post by: Scoundrel80


oh, one more thing: I ran the silly 7x flame sisters again. they are so good! the pregame move plus an hefty advance often means they score engage on t1 so your bikes dont have to overextend. you then have a very hard to charge unit up the board, that will wipe something next turn, if the opponent doesn't act. I used them to try and lure morty to the left t1 and he didn't bite. instead, they could just straight-line to the back left objective and deliver 27 s5 hits into the 12 poles there. they all died. Also, they would then give me acces to all the psykarna tricks and starts as they only work in an 18 inch bubble. They can give guys -1 to hit in melee wit a strat and all sorts of craziness. At some point, tho, mortarion cleared them off the board. but still.. for 100 points? yes please.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
[
We have to think about our units a bit differently, especially custodian guard. They are no longer an immovable object that can hold an objective forever. They are literally throw away troops that you shouldn't waste your stratagems on. If they roll hot on their 4+ invuln, nice...if they die, they die *insert Ivan drago meme*
Our survivability is now very closely tied to our stratagems and those have to be used on bikes, terminators or other more valuable stuff.

Also, we are codex herohammer now anyway, so who cares if more of our stuff does as long as the characters are bonkers enough to pull a lot of weight.



This.. is true. It hurts, because thats not why I play custodes. If I want chaff, I play guard, admech or basically any other army except maybe.. grey knights?
But that just means that Shield Guard are on their way out and "standard" spear guard are your best bang for your buck.
But throwaway Custodes.. that just feels very, very wrong.


yup. I hate that too. but its reality. They are generally to be viewed as throw away troops now. I was happy to see that there are alternative builds, though, where guard come to their right. I saw a crazy solar watch build at lvo with 3x10 guard that just crushed.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 16:56:13


Post by: Tiberias


 Thairne wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
[
We have to think about our units a bit differently, especially custodian guard. They are no longer an immovable object that can hold an objective forever. They are literally throw away troops that you shouldn't waste your stratagems on. If they roll hot on their 4+ invuln, nice...if they die, they die *insert Ivan drago meme*
Our survivability is now very closely tied to our stratagems and those have to be used on bikes, terminators or other more valuable stuff.

Also, we are codex herohammer now anyway, so who cares if more of our stuff does as long as the characters are bonkers enough to pull a lot of weight.



This.. is true. It hurts, because thats not why I play custodes. If I want chaff, I play guard, admech or basically any other army except maybe.. grey knights?
But that just means that Shield Guard are on their way out and "standard" spear guard are your best bang for your buck.
But throwaway Custodes.. that just feels very, very wrong.


Yes, it does suck. But GWs design philosophy is gak. So this is what we got, and the codex is strong at least....

Edit: how have peoples experiences been so far with the blade champion? I used him three times so far and he did some work for me in Emperors Chosen as a horde blender, but I'm biased because I like the model. Did he earn back his points when any of you used him?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 18:15:10


Post by: Scoundrel80


well, he is very cheap, so I feel he will always be worth his points basically. I mean, if he blends 5 intercessors, he is almost there : )

that said, I haven't used him yet. I just feel the bike cap is my favorite right now. The mobility is always my biggest issue with custodes and he does a lot to mitigate that. I even used the OPG double move on the magic bike to score 5vp/engage on the fifth turn in my super tight game vs orks the other day.

the blade wizard is undoubtedly good, but I just feel he does stuff that my army can already do. That said, I will get to him eventually and im sure he will be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw: if anyone has some examples on clever ways to abuse the Emperors Chosen strat id love to hear them : )



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 18:51:36


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I think Blade Champion is great and one of our few sources of 3D melee. I'm also a bit biased since I play against -1D Crusher Stampede regularly though.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 18:56:53


Post by: Tiberias


Scoundrel80 wrote:
well, he is very cheap, so I feel he will always be worth his points basically. I mean, if he blends 5 intercessors, he is almost there : )

that said, I haven't used him yet. I just feel the bike cap is my favorite right now. The mobility is always my biggest issue with custodes and he does a lot to mitigate that. I even used the OPG double move on the magic bike to score 5vp/engage on the fifth turn in my super tight game vs orks the other day.

the blade wizard is undoubtedly good, but I just feel he does stuff that my army can already do. That said, I will get to him eventually and im sure he will be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw: if anyone has some examples on clever ways to abuse the Emperors Chosen strat id love to hear them : )



Esteemed amalgam is the coolest stratagem in the entire codex.

Some combinations:
-Take a blender blade champ with peerless warrior and auric exemplar and use the strat to put him into dreadhost. Now his hurricanis profile is Ap2, which goes a long way into lots of units.

-putting bikes into dread host is amazing with hurricane bolters. Having that many shots at Ap1 (when within 9" of enemy) REALLY makes a difference.

-putting terminators or wardens into dreadhost to give axes Ap3 can be really good.

-giving sagittarium the emissaries emperatus trait can be really good so they ignore all to hit modifiers on their über bolters.

-giving a unit the shadowkeepers trait can always be situationally good when facing characters (duh) or against combat armies for - 1 attack.

The possibilities are truly amazing. Esteemed amalgam alone pushes Emperors Chosen to the top spot for me, even though I think shadowkeepers are way more badass.



Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 19:51:17


Post by: Scoundrel80


Tiberias wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
well, he is very cheap, so I feel he will always be worth his points basically. I mean, if he blends 5 intercessors, he is almost there : )

that said, I haven't used him yet. I just feel the bike cap is my favorite right now. The mobility is always my biggest issue with custodes and he does a lot to mitigate that. I even used the OPG double move on the magic bike to score 5vp/engage on the fifth turn in my super tight game vs orks the other day.

the blade wizard is undoubtedly good, but I just feel he does stuff that my army can already do. That said, I will get to him eventually and im sure he will be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw: if anyone has some examples on clever ways to abuse the Emperors Chosen strat id love to hear them : )



Esteemed amalgam is the coolest stratagem in the entire codex.

Some combinations:
-Take a blender blade champ with peerless warrior and auric exemplar and use the strat to put him into dreadhost. Now his hurricanis profile is Ap2, which goes a long way into lots of units.

-putting bikes into dread host is amazing with hurricane bolters. Having that many shots at Ap1 (when within 9" of enemy) REALLY makes a difference.

-putting terminators or wardens into dreadhost to give axes Ap3 can be really good.

-giving sagittarium the emissaries emperatus trait can be really good so they ignore all to hit modifiers on their über bolters.

-giving a unit the shadowkeepers trait can always be situationally good when facing characters (duh) or against combat armies for - 1 attack.

The possibilities are truly amazing. Esteemed amalgam alone pushes Emperors Chosen to the top spot for me, even though I think shadowkeepers are way more badass.



yeah, man. I totally agree. I love it on paper! and on the table too. I have just had trouble truly implementing it in my 2 games. Haden't thought about the sagittarum thing, then you can fire both profiles at 2+ thats god damn brutal for bigger units especially. Hurricanis with flat 2 has a lot of utility too.ven into vehicles. thanks a ton!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 20:07:20


Post by: Tiberias


Scoundrel80 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
well, he is very cheap, so I feel he will always be worth his points basically. I mean, if he blends 5 intercessors, he is almost there : )

that said, I haven't used him yet. I just feel the bike cap is my favorite right now. The mobility is always my biggest issue with custodes and he does a lot to mitigate that. I even used the OPG double move on the magic bike to score 5vp/engage on the fifth turn in my super tight game vs orks the other day.

the blade wizard is undoubtedly good, but I just feel he does stuff that my army can already do. That said, I will get to him eventually and im sure he will be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw: if anyone has some examples on clever ways to abuse the Emperors Chosen strat id love to hear them : )



Esteemed amalgam is the coolest stratagem in the entire codex.

Some combinations:
-Take a blender blade champ with peerless warrior and auric exemplar and use the strat to put him into dreadhost. Now his hurricanis profile is Ap2, which goes a long way into lots of units.

-putting bikes into dread host is amazing with hurricane bolters. Having that many shots at Ap1 (when within 9" of enemy) REALLY makes a difference.

-putting terminators or wardens into dreadhost to give axes Ap3 can be really good.

-giving sagittarium the emissaries emperatus trait can be really good so they ignore all to hit modifiers on their über bolters.

-giving a unit the shadowkeepers trait can always be situationally good when facing characters (duh) or against combat armies for - 1 attack.

The possibilities are truly amazing. Esteemed amalgam alone pushes Emperors Chosen to the top spot for me, even though I think shadowkeepers are way more badass.



yeah, man. I totally agree. I love it on paper! and on the table too. I have just had trouble truly implementing it in my 2 games. Haden't thought about the sagittarum thing, then you can fire both profiles at 2+ thats god damn brutal for bigger units especially. Hurricanis with flat 2 has a lot of utility too.ven into vehicles. thanks a ton!


Just to prevent a misunderstanding: putting the blade champ into dread host makes the hurricanis profile AP2, not flat 2dmg. But the AP2 are still very valuable into a lot of units.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 20:09:46


Post by: Thairne


Somehow I think the Blade Wizard is overkill.
He does only one thing - and he does it really well.
But its not like everything else in the codex has problem killing things in melee.
In the holy trinity of Jetbike Captain, Allarus with Praetorian Plate and Trajann I can't justify giving up all that utility for... more of what I already have.
If the praetorian plate didn't exist - yes. But as is, he is a one trick pony that does the same trick, just better.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 21:05:53


Post by: Scoundrel80


Tiberias wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
well, he is very cheap, so I feel he will always be worth his points basically. I mean, if he blends 5 intercessors, he is almost there : )

that said, I haven't used him yet. I just feel the bike cap is my favorite right now. The mobility is always my biggest issue with custodes and he does a lot to mitigate that. I even used the OPG double move on the magic bike to score 5vp/engage on the fifth turn in my super tight game vs orks the other day.

the blade wizard is undoubtedly good, but I just feel he does stuff that my army can already do. That said, I will get to him eventually and im sure he will be cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw: if anyone has some examples on clever ways to abuse the Emperors Chosen strat id love to hear them : )



Esteemed amalgam is the coolest stratagem in the entire codex.

Some combinations:
-Take a blender blade champ with peerless warrior and auric exemplar and use the strat to put him into dreadhost. Now his hurricanis profile is Ap2, which goes a long way into lots of units.

-putting bikes into dread host is amazing with hurricane bolters. Having that many shots at Ap1 (when within 9" of enemy) REALLY makes a difference.

-putting terminators or wardens into dreadhost to give axes Ap3 can be really good.

-giving sagittarium the emissaries emperatus trait can be really good so they ignore all to hit modifiers on their über bolters.

-giving a unit the shadowkeepers trait can always be situationally good when facing characters (duh) or against combat armies for - 1 attack.

The possibilities are truly amazing. Esteemed amalgam alone pushes Emperors Chosen to the top spot for me, even though I think shadowkeepers are way more badass.



yeah, man. I totally agree. I love it on paper! and on the table too. I have just had trouble truly implementing it in my 2 games. Haden't thought about the sagittarum thing, then you can fire both profiles at 2+ thats god damn brutal for bigger units especially. Hurricanis with flat 2 has a lot of utility too.ven into vehicles. thanks a ton!


Just to prevent a misunderstanding: putting the blade champ into dread host makes the hurricanis profile AP2, not flat 2dmg. But the AP2 are still very valuable into a lot of units.


Yup. Gotcha. I have considered the hurricane bolter combo but not the blade champ. Seems fairly strong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Thairne wrote:
Somehow I think the Blade Wizard is overkill.
He does only one thing - and he does it really well.
But its not like everything else in the codex has problem killing things in melee.
In the holy trinity of Jetbike Captain, Allarus with Praetorian Plate and Trajann I can't justify giving up all that utility for... more of what I already have.
If the praetorian plate didn't exist - yes. But as is, he is a one trick pony that does the same trick, just better.


I agree. Could you educate me a bit on practical builds and uses of the plate cap? Haven’t used him yet.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 21:10:21


Post by: Thairne


well, me neither
But a common one is preatorian plate, unstoppable destroyer and Impregnable Mind(+ superior creation if avail).
Gives you that extra mobility to get on an objective and claim it as yours, since that is basically his job.
Get something on an objective in a fight, yeet it, claim it. Or, in an emergency, yeet into your backfield Proseccos holding your home obj and take out whatever was charging them.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 23:31:23


Post by: Mad_Proctologist


Anyone else disappointed we never got sword and board on our allarus custodians? Visually and tactically it sounds pretty nice.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 23:36:33


Post by: ph34r


Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Anyone else disappointed we never got sword and board on our allarus custodians? Visually and tactically it sounds pretty nice.
Ahh, that would have been great.

On the topic of both those Allarus's armaments and Wardens, are axes worth it at all the way things are, or is it always better to go for the cheaper option of spear?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/05 23:44:41


Post by: Mad_Proctologist


Both are the same cost. While spear is more piercing, most of the character targets you'd actually go for have a decent invul save anyway. But it would still be effective at bullying backline units.
I'd go axe simply because it gives you a bigger range of effective targets, although in big units I'd take an even mix of the two.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 00:22:12


Post by: leerm02


Woah, I didn't think of that interaction between the Sagittarum and Emissaries Imperatus!

I might have to give my 4x3 squads of Sagittarum a try with that shield host so that I can move, advance, AND fire both barrels without suffering any -1 to hit! That is a POWERFUL interaction right there!


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 03:33:18


Post by: The Red Hobbit


I'm curious if I've been reading Stance 2 of Calistus correctly.

So you can move & advance then count as stationary. Does that mean you can advance and then fire a non-assault weapon?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 04:05:40


Post by: cuda1179


I'd like to discuss the Relic pauldron, Castellan's Mark. Now, I know that many armies have abilities like this to redeploy units, but two units in a Custodes army can be a massive chunk of the army. Heck, that could be 1000 points of Guardians. Furthermore, their redeployment only has to be within your regular deployment area, so in some scenarios you could literally start within charge range of the enemy as there is no minimal distance listed.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 06:02:58


Post by: Audustum


 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I'm curious if I've been reading Stance 2 of Calistus correctly.

So you can move & advance then count as stationary. Does that mean you can advance and then fire a non-assault weapon?


Yes, I believe this is correct.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 06:30:27


Post by: stratigo


 ph34r wrote:
Mad_Proctologist wrote:
Anyone else disappointed we never got sword and board on our allarus custodians? Visually and tactically it sounds pretty nice.
Ahh, that would have been great.

On the topic of both those Allarus's armaments and Wardens, are axes worth it at all the way things are, or is it always better to go for the cheaper option of spear?



GW seems to be playing around with a strength 8 breakpoint on certain defensive rules. They have ramshackle on orks and just replicated that over to artisans of flesh, making axes suddenly a better choice. We'll see if this is a trend GW hits on going forward.

Another dimension is that, frankly, everything has an invulnerable now and -2 usually hits it. Custodes don't need the extra AP help killing like intercessors, and the stuff more AP hurts have invuls or are toughness 8.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 09:44:39


Post by: Tiberias


How do you rule the praerorian plate in your games? Does the teleport-shut count as a heroic intervention in your games? The wording is not clear and we don't have an FAQ so I was wondering how you guys handle this.

In my opinion it was clearly meant to be a heroic intervention and I personally have been playing it as such.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 09:52:47


Post by: stratigo


Tiberias wrote:
How do you rule the praerorian plate in your games? Does the teleport-shut count as a heroic intervention in your games? The wording is not clear and we don't have an FAQ so I was wondering how you guys handle this.

In my opinion it was clearly meant to be a heroic intervention and I personally have been playing it as such.


It RoW does not, but most competitive tournaments rule that it does. LVO did for example, so if you are playing to practice real competitive gaming, play as it does.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 13:15:02


Post by: Scoundrel80


i am considering something new for EC. My first thought was this build with lots of MSU that took max advantage of the rerolls. but maybe its better to focus on the strat. You'd want blocks that fit various shield host traits and they would then each have a turn to shine.

so you go 5x sagittarum for a beasty turn of 5 s5 d3 shots and 15 heavy bolter shots at 2+.

Then 4-5 bikes with hurricane bolters for a gruesome 60 s4 ap-1 shots that could level most things with less than t8 in the game. if you can combine this with the advance and shoot katah you could mitigate the rather short range of this strike and more or less delete anything.

then maybe a champion as one of you HQ and the rest would be small units that fit with the EC rerolls as usual.

I haven't thought through the list in detail but I think there is merit to leaning heavily into this tech.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 13:34:06


Post by: Thairne


Basically you want to run EC to their full strength.
Valid. But there are 2 problems with this - one is, that it requires a good amount of preplanning to not require two esteemed amalagams in the same phase and the seciond is - it is very CP hungry.
Usually you need 2-4CP per turn for defensive stragagems. Those large squads will take a toll on that as well.
Now if you add another obligatory CP or two per turn, it means you're dry by T3 at the latest, more like T2 already.
Trajann helps with that, but you'd really cut down on WLT and relics to give you the funding for that type of list.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 14:31:49


Post by: Scoundrel80


 Thairne wrote:
Basically you want to run EC to their full strength.
Valid. But there are 2 problems with this - one is, that it requires a good amount of preplanning to not require two esteemed amalagams in the same phase and the seciond is - it is very CP hungry.
Usually you need 2-4CP per turn for defensive stragagems. Those large squads will take a toll on that as well.
Now if you add another obligatory CP or two per turn, it means you're dry by T3 at the latest, more like T2 already.
Trajann helps with that, but you'd really cut down on WLT and relics to give you the funding for that type of list.


yeah. True. You touch on my initial point here; the fact that you need to preplan a lot with that strat was my problem going in. maybe it best suited as a luxury element to support your guys when special situations occur.

After 2 games the EC rerolls and 4+++ vs mortals has proven super strong in and of them selves so maybe building around that is just straight up better. everything in three mans for optimal strat support and reroll efficiency.

Btw have any of you guys given any thought to my 7x witch hunter squad? its 100 points. great mobility, hefty shooting, draws fire away from more important units and gets your anti psyker stuff up the board. just silly or actually decent?


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 14:47:41


Post by: Audustum


I tried two squads of Sagg last night into a Thousand Sons match-up. It actually turned me off to them quite a bit. Two rounds of shooting from one squad failed to kill a single Rubric (and that was in dual profile range). The second squad didn't have any luck either.

They might be useful for picking up Termagaunts or Guardsmen, but I think it might be better to just bring Sword Boys + Sisters as your troops and hunker down.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 15:29:58


Post by: Scoundrel80


I went away from them too but only because they were too expensive. They always kill tons of stuff. and they go into chaff super hard in melee too, imo. 4 attacks at s5 ap2 is better than all the melee profiles in my entire eldar army and most of my marine army : )

pardon for asking, but how could you not kill a single rubric marine when you shoot with somewhere between 18 and 30 s5 ap1 d2 and between 6 and 10 s5 ap3 d3 shots?? that must have been a horrible display of ones and twos being rolled. I mean, the profiles are basically build to just tear through marines. you hit on 3s, wound on threes and every save he misses is a guy dead?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh. times 2 even! you said two turns of shooting right? Thats straight up impossible, id say.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 15:53:07


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Scoundrel80 wrote:
I went away from them too but only because they were too expensive. They always kill tons of stuff. and they go into chaff super hard in melee too, imo. 4 attacks at s5 ap2 is better than all the melee profiles in my entire eldar army and most of my marine army : )

pardon for asking, but how could you not kill a single rubric marine when you shoot with somewhere between 18 and 30 s5 ap1 d2 and between 6 and 10 s5 ap3 d3 shots?? that must have been a horrible display of ones and twos being rolled. I mean, the profiles are basically build to just tear through marines. you hit on 3s, wound on threes and every save he misses is a guy dead?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh. times 2 even! you said two turns of shooting right? Thats straight up impossible, id say.


I think it was exaggeration. If he was stating literal facts, that IS impressive.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 16:01:50


Post by: Audustum


Scoundrel80 wrote:
I went away from them too but only because they were too expensive. They always kill tons of stuff. and they go into chaff super hard in melee too, imo. 4 attacks at s5 ap2 is better than all the melee profiles in my entire eldar army and most of my marine army : )

pardon for asking, but how could you not kill a single rubric marine when you shoot with somewhere between 18 and 30 s5 ap1 d2 and between 6 and 10 s5 ap3 d3 shots?? that must have been a horrible display of ones and twos being rolled. I mean, the profiles are basically build to just tear through marines. you hit on 3s, wound on threes and every save he misses is a guy dead?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh. times 2 even! you said two turns of shooting right? Thats straight up impossible, id say.


Rubrics were standing in light cover and then used the stratagem to reduce the damage by 1. That gave them effective 1+ armor saves against the base profile since they get +1 to armor saves against 1 damage weapons (which would only do 1 damage now too if anything snuck through). Had an appropriate number of hits/wounds but couldn't really crack the armor. I figured it might be a statistical anomaly but it was quite disheartening (team gold did still win the day though thanks to Trajann, Jetbikes and two 1-man Allarus units).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
I went away from them too but only because they were too expensive. They always kill tons of stuff. and they go into chaff super hard in melee too, imo. 4 attacks at s5 ap2 is better than all the melee profiles in my entire eldar army and most of my marine army : )

pardon for asking, but how could you not kill a single rubric marine when you shoot with somewhere between 18 and 30 s5 ap1 d2 and between 6 and 10 s5 ap3 d3 shots?? that must have been a horrible display of ones and twos being rolled. I mean, the profiles are basically build to just tear through marines. you hit on 3s, wound on threes and every save he misses is a guy dead?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh. times 2 even! you said two turns of shooting right? Thats straight up impossible, id say.


I think it was exaggeration. If he was stating literal facts, that IS impressive.


No, sadly, quite literal.


Codex Adeptus Custodes 9th Edition Tactica: Auric Mortalis @ 2022/02/06 16:24:59


Post by: Scoundrel80


wow. ok. thats terrible.