SW - Please don't get bogged down with this. I think this is quickly turning into too many chefs in the kitchen. Stick to the concept art please.

 Zywus wrote:
If anything, I believe people will be more perplexed if the models turn out looking like this:


rather than this:


The latter is much more in line with my expectations.

Those chainmail bodies do look super rad!

I'd be much happier if you stick to what you showed in the update as I think it fits well with what you showed with the KS,

I like the mixed armour and think it's useful both as representing a force where perhaps most of the women can't afford the plate

it also provides the option of using the army sized deals (lots of us have multiple boxes coming) to put together a small unit in plate (elites are always useful) and a larger ones in chain

As long a there's a poll, no worries here - obviously there have been quite a few folks posting about both preferences. But I don't think what we've seen is what most were expecting for the spare torsos, and it's a bigger deal with the 5th normal torso not making it onto the sprue... so worth asking about.

The idea that these could form a separate, more armored unit with how they look now is kind of the point - they don't match the existing unit and would reduce the appeal of the box set going forward, imo.

If you try to do everything (Rangers, Chainmail armored Shieldmaidens, Heavy/Plate armored Shieldmaidens) you end up with a kit that does a little of everything but not one thing really well. So just trying to avoid that...

I just though of something perhaps more important--the bases. Please tell me you won't be using the deep dish bases that came with the mountain orcs for the shieldmaidens. They were completely unusable with the orcs and will just look odd with any other miniatures.

@RiTides
We weren't thinking of doing a triple use with the 2 spare bodies, with all sincerity we just went on doing what we promised.
Also, the 5th body still has a chance to fit in but without being sure we dare not say anything.

@BobtheInquisitor
Actually yes, but if you prefer us sending you 20mm bases instead of the 25mm square with lip, just send us a message and we'll add it to the closing remarks of your pledge :-)

I believe that's not the intention - but it is the result! So I hope you consider it - and I won't post further about it until there is (hopefully) a poll or similar.

 MLaw wrote:
SW - Please don't get bogged down with this. I think this is quickly turning into too many chefs in the kitchen. Stick to the concept art please.

Seriously. Design by committee is a terrible idea. Stick with your vision and don't let a vocal minority sway you.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
SW - Please don't get bogged down with this. I think this is quickly turning into too many chefs in the kitchen. Stick to the concept art please.

Seriously. Design by committee is a terrible idea. Stick with your vision and don't let a vocal minority sway you.

~Eric

I would tend to agree - but then we are also a vocal minority

My 2 cents.

I think the new bodies look fine from the belly down. The combination of different armor (obviously looted) with basic ringmail works. That said, the plate cuirass really doesn't work with the rest. If you want to go with heavy torso armor I'd go with a hard leather cuirass. It would fit with the concept better. Another idea would be scrap armor held together with chain mail (something your village blacksmith could cobble together from a captured breastplate).

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@RiTides
We weren't thinking of doing a triple use with the 2 spare bodies, with all sincerity we just went on doing what we promised.
Also, the 5th body still has a chance to fit in but without being sure we dare not say anything.

@BobtheInquisitor
Actually yes, but if you prefer us sending you 20mm bases instead of the 25mm square with lip, just send us a message and we'll add it to the closing remarks of your pledge :-)

It sounds like you have enough complications. I'll just use some of the Proxie Models bases I already have and use your bases for terrain or something. Hopefully your big lipped bases won't bother any of your other customers.

 Zywus wrote:
If anything, I believe people will be more perplexed if the models turn out looking like this:


rather than this:


The latter is much more in line with my expectations.

Basically, that is me. To the point that, right now, if what I'll end up getting is the first pic, I'd rather get a refund, honestly. I really have no use for that. Much less 4 boxes of them.

Expressing my personal opinion only I find the bodies pretty nice and I have no problem with the combined and 'heavier' armoured ones.

People keep posting pictures of historical armory and photos of Lagertha, which I find a bit unfair. Shieldmaidens are not supposed to represent actual and historically real female warriors but a fantasy version of them. I feel that many keep forgetting about this. Fantasy miniatures (and in these case high fantasy, it is not Game of Thrones) are supposed (and up to a point) expected to go beyond realism. The presented bodies do not go extreme with these and find a good balance, I think.

Finally if I understand well the image showing the assembled mini, is not supposed to represent a ranger model but to demonstrate the combination possibilities of all the different parts. If someone does not like this combination of heavier armour and hood can just ignore it when assembling the minis. Opinions have been already expressed, which find this combination interesting (for some kind of warrior priest).

If Shieldwolf decides to proceed with a poll about the final version, as has done so, many times already, it is fine. However I would be fine for me as well if these were the final versions.

 corgan wrote:
People keep posting pictures of historical armory and photos of Lagertha, which I find a bit unfair.

Other people just post pics of the "armored" renders shown during the KS, though. And I don't find that unfair at all.

 Albertorius wrote:

 corgan wrote:
People keep posting pictures of historical armory and photos of Lagertha, which I find a bit unfair.

Other people just post pics of the "armored" renders shown during the KS, though. And I don't find that unfair at all.

Fair enough. But referring to pictures already provided by the manufacturer is a more solid reference point, as the manufacturer is the one having the initiative.

My point is that Shieldwolf has to make a decision on the final version and go on with, otherwise it is going to be an endless effort to satisfy everyone, which I think is never going to happen.

 corgan wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 corgan wrote:
People keep posting pictures of historical armory and photos of Lagertha, which I find a bit unfair.

Other people just post pics of the "armored" renders shown during the KS, though. And I don't find that unfair at all.

Fair enough. But referring to pictures already provided by the manufacturer is a more solid reference point, as the manufacturer is the one having the initiative.

My point is that Shieldwolf has to make a decision on the final version and go on with, otherwise it is going to be an endless effort to satisfy everyone, which I think is never going to happen.

OTOH, many of the people wanting "armored" (actually, covered) options stated here and on the KS that the reason was so as to make them more "historical looking" and less objectified than the "regular" bare midriffed versions. Would you agree on that the new renders don't exactly fill any of those two needs?

I think that they fill well a more fantasy approach but I do agree they do not do so regarding a more 'historically accurate' one. I hadn't realised that people were actually expecting historically accurate models, as the fantasy element would always be there in any case, and Shieldwolf was clear on that. My apologies if I missed this detail, as long as I was mainly expecting fantasy oriented minis.

The way it was presented in the campaign was a response to feedback - folks were viewing this as a chance to field a unit of realistic viking-like warriors. A major hindrance to that was the two bare midriff sculpts, and the "non-bare midriff" stretch goal was added in response to that, and frequently pointed to as such. Similarly with the "non-wavy hair" stretch goal. Both were presented in this light.

For me, there are plenty of other companies making less plausible looking female warriors - Kingdom Death and Ragong Heroes in particular. I backed this (which happened to run close or alongside the "Heroines in Sensible Shoes" campaign, for realistic female D&D minis) and not those because these stretch goals looked to give me what I wanted, while also having the bare midriffs and wavy hair sculpts for those who were looking for something more "fantasy".

But I was kind of shocked to see these renders as they specifically referred to these as "non-bare midriff" sculpts for all the folks asking for warrior-looking models. These latest renders don't fit that at all... honestly, the stretch goal map pic was tiny and I never realized they were planning "boob armor". It ruins the "Lagertha" look in my mind, and while some other armor would be fine, I don't think what is shown matches the concept art or what was talked about during the campaign.

I hadn't intended to post again but I just wanted to give that context, of how these stretch goals were presented and how folks like myself specifically backed in response to them, as Shieldwolf seemed to be listening to feedback and providing a way to field a true warrior-looking unit. I was really disappointed by the new renders in this light =/

Finally, and regardless of all of the above, I really do think they clash with the Rangers bits badly from an aesthetic point of view:



Whereas something closer to the originals would work much better:



It's hard to know how many folks would be happy with the two new body sculpts as they are (first pic), or with a change to be more like what others were expecting (second pic), without making a poll of some sort. So, I really hope you'll follow through on that!

RiTides wrote:I believe that's not the intention - but it is the result! So I hope you consider it - and I won't post further about it until there is (hopefully) a poll or similar.

Yes, hopefully that poll launches soon!

Yep, and I noted above that I hadn't intended to post on that again, but wanted to clarify the context of why people were expecting something different. There was a lot of feedback about this during the campaign, and those stretch goals were always pointed out as a response to it... just a bummer that either way a portion of backers are going to feel surprised by the outcome =/

Look, if you do go historical for this fantasy thing.. despite the concept art, I'll be looking for a refund. I don't want vikings. I didn't pledge for vikings. With the heavier armor mixed in, it allows for people to use the kits for things other than freaking Lagertha. What you showed in the update got me excited because it meant with a few simple weapon swaps I would be set up for some Sisters of Sigmar.

If what we were shown during the pledging period isn't what we're going to see, regardless of people's feelings or polls or other mess.. that's not fair to people. I didn't want you to change the midriffs, that didn't matter because of some loudmouths and now the same thing is going to happen all over again..

I hope the "boob plate" stays. I can use these as a different unit or RPG characters, or as unit champion, etc. I like what has been shown.

 MLaw wrote:
SW - Please don't get bogged down with this. I think this is quickly turning into too many chefs in the kitchen. Stick to the concept art please.

Too many cooks?

Angelos is missing from HQ so he is not here atm but he said he will have a new look on the KS page,Facebok,forums etc on Monday.He said he will decide the course of action this coming week.

Also,please do not refer to refunds in this manner.Apart from the fact the refund policy was from day one of the campaign on the front page(+ we reminded backers in the last update to make sure it is very clear how the refund policy works since we consider ourselves professionals and will certainly deliver the rewards),it also sheds bad light on the project,something that the project does not deserve.People not knowing what this is about,when reading I want a refund is bad.And unfair in all honesty.
Thank you for your support.

Georgios.

I didn't back the Shieldmaiden project because warrior women are not my variety of fantasy, so take my opinions for what little they are worth.

1. I think the previewed components look great, and actually gave me a little bit of heartburn about not pledging. They look cool, and are clearly very well sculpted with plastic tooling in mind. With Renedra tooling these, they are going to look phenomenal.

2. If I were a miniatures manufacturer, the comments surrounding this kickstarter and these most recent renders has convinced me not to touch female miniatures with a ten foot pole. You can't win. This is a topic that clearly inspires strong feelings in members of the community, the majority of which seem to be negative. Every step is a mis-step with a third of your customer base.

3. To my untrained, un-pledged, and admittedly un-interested eye, the bodies seems like a nice compromise between "The Lagertha" side of the spectrum and the "Kingdom DDeath" side of the spectrum. You can't make all of the kit as Lagertha clones, you can't make them all as Red Sonja types. If anything, the pendulum is swung in favor of Lagertha pretty heavily.

4.I agree whole-heartedly that the cries for "refund" are premature and unfair to a company that wildly modified their original shieldmaiden concepts to be responsive to the market. The problem with any ambiguity in any kickstarter is that people fill in the unsculpted miniatures with the version that would be most perfect for them in their heads. The actual finished product will never(rarely?) live up to their expectations. In my mind, the Mantic Basileans were so amazing...

5. I agree that the two extra stretch goal bodies are more heavily armored than the original 4. This makes them look distinctive from the original 4. I can understand why that would annoy people who play ranked fantasy battle games. I think what happened was Shieldwolf heard the cries of "less midriffs" and "more sensible armor!" and interpreted that as "more heavily armored!". It seems to me to be a reasonable interpretation or mistake, depending on your viewpoint.

6. From a business standpoint, I would absolutely not run a poll unless you already know what the outcome will be. If you are at all uncertain you risk making 50% of your customers feel like they were "robbed" by the majority. Once they cast a vote, they become more emotionally connected to the outcome. Some people who don't like the bodies now may like them more in 6 months, some who like them now may like them less in 6 months. I have personally already gone through a cycle of "those are great, to "eh..they are just ok" and back to "those are great!" in the space of typing this response. If a backer cast a vote, it will only magnify their attachment and response to any outcome other than their own. Humans are risk averse, this means that the emotional pain of a loss outweighs the emotional gain of a win, even if the loss and win are of the same magnitude. The losers of the poll will get more unhappy than the winners will get happy. The shifting opinions and risk aversion work against Shieldwolf since the more vocal people you have hammering on about unrealistic boob-armor/female representation in miniatures or how some crusading loudmouth minority spoil the fun in everything (respectively) the more likely they are to sway other people to their side.

 RiTides wrote:

If you try to do everything (Rangers, Chainmail armored Shieldmaidens, Heavy/Plate armored Shieldmaidens) you end up with a kit that does a little of everything but not one thing really well. So just trying to avoid that...

There's an element of truth to this.

Still, I think you guys should decide and push on with what you think is going to work best.

Original designs and concepts looked best to me, the redesign based on a minority of backer feedback looks more like a knight/ paladin or holy nun than a wild warrior tribe.

They both look good, but are very different models. The originals are something I'd use for 9th Age chaos barbarians or KoW Varagnur, the full plate armour redesign is something I'd use for Sisters of Sigmar or KoW Basileans.

Just my two cents, I only threw in a token $1 to support the project due to lack of funds, so the end result doesn't matter much to me either way. Will probably buy some either way, once they're done.

It's one of the reasons why I'm increasingly taking the approach of waiting for retail rather than backing Kickstarters if the end result isn't fixed in stone, I like to see what I get before paying.

Getting bogged down in a morass of demands and trying to please everyone isn't good for a small company trying to become established, this was the reason given for the first KS being canceled, but the same thing is happening now that it's in production.

 Gallahad wrote:

6. From a business standpoint, I would absolutely not run a poll unless you already know what the outcome will be. If you are at all uncertain you risk making 50% of your customers feel like they were "robbed" by the majority. Once they cast a vote, they become more emotionally connected to the outcome. Some people who don't like the bodies now may like them more in 6 months, some who like them now may like them less in 6 months. I have personally already gone through a cycle of "those are great, to "eh..they are just ok" and back to "those are great!" in the space of typing this response. If a backer cast a vote, it will only magnify their attachment and response to any outcome other than their own. Humans are risk averse, this means that the emotional pain of a loss outweighs the emotional gain of a win, even if the loss and win are of the same magnitude. The losers of the poll will get more unhappy than the winners will get happy. The shifting opinions and risk aversion work against Shieldwolf since the more vocal people you have hammering on about unrealistic boob-armor/female representation in miniatures or how some crusading loudmouth minority spoil the fun in everything (respectively) the more likely they are to sway other people to their side.

very much this

you had your polls before the KS, you made your decisions based on the results and your feelings about your business, re-running them is just going to end up with upset people and more chance of them asking for refunds (which you'll refuse which will then upset them more and create a group who will be invested in badmouthing you anywhere they can in future, complaining to KS etc)

Personally I think this is such an amazing deal that I will absolutely NOT be asking for a refund, whichever design you guys go with, despite my vague anti-boobplate sentiments.

It came up in the KS comments that folks thought this would be leather armor (which would match much better) rather than plate from the art. So, that could also explain some of the confusion.

Thanks for the update on your plans Shieldwolf, looking forward to what Amgelos has to say!

 MLaw wrote:
SW - Please don't get bogged down with this. I think this is quickly turning into too many chefs in the kitchen. Stick to the concept art please.

I couldn't agree more.

 RiTides wrote:
It came up in the KS comments that folks thought this would be leather armor (which would match much better) rather than plate from the art. So, that could also explain some of the confusion.

Thanks for the update on your plans Shieldwolf, looking forward to what Amgelos has to say!

That's surely a matter of paint more than anything else though, no? The form of a boiled leather cuirass and a metal one aren't going to be that different, and you'd struggle to tell the difference from looking if both had a lacquered finish.

Good point Yodhrin - that might be a good middle ground solution too.

I'm less concerned that it looks like plate and more concerned that it looks like a couple of footballs that's been stuck on her chest. the one with the fur is fine as it covers it up somewhat, but the one without just look ridiculous frankly. I backed when the SG 'covered midriffs' was reached solely on those renders. and if there are more then one of those ridiculous torso in each box I shan't be happy. But then I'm just one person, what does that matter.

overtyrant wrote:
I'm less concerned that it looks like plate and more concerned that it looks like a couple of footballs that's been stuck on her chest.

And now we've reached new heights of hyperbole...

~Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

That's surely a matter of paint more than anything else though, no? The form of a boiled leather cuirass and a metal one aren't going to be that different, and you'd struggle to tell the difference from looking if both had a lacquered finish.

Yes, great idea.

Do we know how big these minis will be? They come with a lot of spare heads, right? So, if those heads fit on some Gripping Beast Vikings or even some Mantic Men at Arms, we can have the disciplined rank and file and use the Shieldwolf bits for the heroes and more characterful or chaotic units.

As much as I think the boob plate on the right looks excessive in the render, it makes a lot more sense for a warrior woman kit than the bare midriffs. Since there are extra bodies, I don't need to use them, or I can simply replace the upper halves with some spare WGF torsos or something.

Anyway, I won't be asking for a refund. I'll almost certainly buy boxes of any new plastic kits they tool, too, and perhaps extras of the Shieldmaidens kit if it goes together well...and I have the money.

Ha, some people won't be happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form. In a fantasy setting :-)

I think RiTides hit the nail on the head there, and Gallahad makes a similar point: The kit is trying to do two things at once, without much success.

The pendulum is swung more towards "Women fighters with a moderately high level of verisimilitude", but with enough "cheese cake fantasy" elements remaining that they sort of hit a sour note. They aren't quite "serious fighters" enough to make them a solid, different option in the world of miniatures, and not fantastical enough to stand along with over the top fantasy. Realistic enough that one expects more internal consistency, as opposed to big late era breast plates, with emphasis on the breast.

Personally, I would prefer models that with a weapon and shield swap could fit in well with very nice, low magic style fantasy worlds. I am thinking Lord of the Rings or the like. A bare midriff is not out of place there, but the boob plate kind of is. Even without those swaps, I don't think these would be too far out of place as is, sans boob plate that is.

With the boob plate and so many bare midriffs, I kind of can't help but feel that they are edging into the more heavily congested area of "sexy warrior women". Of which I can assure you I own many a model! Are they better than those models? Maybe some, but not that many. It feels like they need to be a little more Red Sonya, or a little less, but where they are at the moment with the strange mix of savage with primitive furs and chain and later period plate bits that are still sorta sexified is kind of an awkward place.

To put it yet another way, the current design trend for male warriors is "More roided out, more giant armor plates, more huge pauldrons." It works (sort of) for individual characters such as in World of Warcraft or very small scale games, but when they are all lined up together the effect is lost and it just turns into beings that are hardly recognizable as human. There is a lot of success to be had by pushing in the opposite direction of the trend and making male models that look like feasible men with feasible levels of armor. It often makes for a more striking model because it is more approachable, and we can imagine ourselves in his shoes because instead of an over the top genetically engineered warrior who knows nothing but skulls and war, he is a guy a lot like us who probably has a home, with maybe a wife and a few kids running around, and it takes balls to leave that behind and go put your life on the line. Even a basic rank and file guy can be imagined as a character, as opposed to a one dimensional characterization .
So yea, by limiting the secondary characteristics that define the gender of the model, in this case "bare bellies, no bulging muscles, long hair, and boobs," you make a much more approachable character as opposed to a sign that says "This is a woman with a sword". Not get rid of bellies and boobs entirely, mind you! Just that less is often more when it comes to those characteristics that send such a strong signal.

Boobs with armor was in the concept art for the campaign. Why pledge for something you know you won't like? Is it with hopes you can convince the project creator to alter their vision?

MLaw, that kind of statement is really frustrating because it's obvious that there was a misunderstanding on the part of many backers (myself included, obviously). Here's the interaction that happened with Shieldwolf before and during the campaign, when a lot of people like myself who had reservations were convinced to come on board and pledge:

---------------------------------
Backer - I like the renders of the plastic minis but I have some concerns. The weapon hafts look too large, they're not posed, and the exposed midriffs make them seem like they are not serious warriors. Can any of these be addressed?

Creator - Yes, we are taking on feedback and all of them will be! The weapon hafts may not be this large, it depends on the diameter that works for plastic tooling. The renders are not yet posed, and will be much more dynamic. Finally, we will be adding 2 more bodies without exposed midriffs for those who are concerned about that. We have also taken people's feedback about the wavy hair into consideration, and will be making alternate heads without it! Both of these are stretch goals that will add value to the kit.
---------------------------------


I'm paraphrasing a LOT of interactions here, but again, it's just frustrating that people don't seem to realize that a lot of us were genuinely surprised by these renders. I unfortunately was busy enough that I didn't notice how the art for the 2 spare bodies (which I thought was just a concept) was so different from the ones in the kit, and that's completely my fault. However, on the main page it was shown pretty small... it is only shown large in that update with the vote.

I will also say, that I understand if Shieldwolf doesn't want to make any change, as they have done what they were always intending to do. But it's just a bummer, because the feeling during the campaign for many backers like myself was "Yes, they listened to feedback! They'll make more torsos that will let us build serious looking warriors!"

I totally get that I was mistaken on this, and that Shieldwolf wanted to (as they've expressed now) tie the plastic kit in to their resin heroes, which do indeed have that look. I was actually really perplexed that they were willing to make a (in my mind awesome) plastic kit that didn't exactly match the resin heroes. But to be honest, I was really happy about it because I haven't seen a lot of people after the resin heroes - they are OK... but the plastic renders shown for the campaign are just awesome.


--------------------------------------

Finally, regarding the vision and matching the concept art... I'm not quite sure where people are coming from there, as it doesn't match the concept art that well from what I can see. One of the concept art models clearly has leather / fur wrapped boots... or at least, it's clear to me in looking at it, am I off on that? Whereas these two renders do not have that element... Backers also voted down the concept that was the most clearly "plate armor"... so, regardless of what you think about the prior issue, the question of whether these two bodies really fit in well with the unit remains (and is really valid I think - you simply can't say that super rough pencil concept art was enough to determine how these would look in the unit). I personally don't think they match very well at all, and I was expecting some torsos that would... so again, another misunderstanding from interactions during the campaign (and only being able to see the original renders that were complete).

No ill will towards Shieldwolf, and I definitely rescind my call for a vote - at this point, I don't think it would help anything. Ideally, they'll be able to fit in the 5th torso and make it more like what people were thinking the non-bare-midriff torsos would be, and then that should hopefully make everyone happy. Cheers for the spirited debate, at least

I do concept art so perhaps for me, there's a bit of a different understanding or expectation.. I dunno. What I see when I look at the render and the concept art, are fairly close in tone if not in detail. The notion is called proof of concept. Maybe everything won't match exactly but when you look at the art it should at least put you in the mind frame for what you're going to see.

Moreover, if the concept art was so crude, or didn't offer a vision of what would be produced, then why on Earth would anyone back that? The concept art and all the other sculpts and renders and everything.. it's all the same flavor. Claiming to be surprised when we don't see something different from everything else is just baffling to me.

ArtIsGreat wrote:
Ha, some people won't be happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form. In a fantasy setting :-)

Nope, I love cheese cake, the more the better. Just not what I wanted here with the coverd midrift SG.

overtyrant wrote:

ArtIsGreat wrote:
Ha, some people won't be happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form. In a fantasy setting :-)

Nope, I love cheese cake, the more the better. Just not what I wanted here with the coverd midrift SG.

This, basically. The SG was specifically stated during the campaign so as to allay the problem some people (me among them) had voiced about the fact that bare midriffed females just don't look like serious fighters to our eyes. So, funnily enough, that's what we where expecting. Also, the rough concepts were both very rough and kind of small, so most people went for the renders shown during the campaign.

Now, instead of (a certain amount of) people was expecting, the new renders show fantasy female supermodel breastplates tacked on to the furs. And that very same people gets disappointed, because they can't really make the serious fantasy fighters they were expecting.

Also, "it's fantasy, so anything goes" is argumentum ad fireballum, which doesn't hold much water in my mind. Not every fantasy setting is tits-out crazy, you know. Nor should it be. Also, funnily enough, many of the most popular fantasy setting aren't tits-out crazy.

Only in this kind of discussion could an almost completely-covered female figure with a plain formed breastplate be referred to as "tits-out crazy" with a straight face.

No, it's not historically-accurate Viking garb, and no, "it's fantasy" isn't a blanket excuse for cheesecake, but these are models for a fantasy world so complaining they don't fit real-world historical periods because X style of mail wouldn't have been combined with Y style of plate is a nonsense, and this isn't cheesecake by any rational measure.

If you don't like the style, fine, but can we please stop pretending Shieldwolf promised Lagertha but gave you Stripperina the Barbarian, when what they promised was "we'll give you stuff without bare midrifs" and delivered.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Only in this kind of discussion could an almost completely-covered female figure with a plain formed breastplate be referred to as "tits-out crazy" with a straight face.

You might notice that I did not refer to the boobplate as "tits-out crazy", but to the notion that because it's fantasy anything goes. Most good fantasy looks plausible and practical.

No, it's not historically-accurate Viking garb, and no, "it's fantasy" isn't a blanket excuse for cheesecake, but these are models for a fantasy world so complaining they don't fit real-world historical periods because X style of mail wouldn't have been combined with Y style of plate is a nonsense, and this isn't cheesecake by any rational measure.

You might also notice that I did not complain about fitting any real-world historical period because yadda yadda. What I said is that I can't take seriously a warrior dressed like that, with chainmail and hide armor eveywhere except the most vulnerable parts of the body. It simply makes it look stupid. Full on naked? Bring it on. Gladiatorial cheesecake? I'd be up for it. Bare midriff in an otherwise covered and armored "serious warrior"? Boobplates in anything that doesn't at least try to look like a greek or roman, or full on "fantasy plate"? Please

So please, don't answer to the argument I'm not making if you're answering to me.

If you don't like the style, fine, but can we please stop pretending Shieldwolf promised Lagertha but gave you Stripperina the Barbarian, when what they promised was "we'll give you stuff without bare midrifs" and delivered.

See above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyways: this is Shieldwolf's project and they'll do what they think is best for the line. And they seem to be very accomodating, going by the KS page:

A crowdfunding project may inevitably carry risks we had not (or could not) foresee. However here at Shieldwolf Miniatures we hold very dearly to our reputation! We don't do excuses! For this reason we are offering a money-back guarantee (just like we did in our first Kickstarter project) to prove the dedication we have in this project. If for any reason you do not like what you receive, please mail them back within 30 days of receiving your rewards; we will refund you 100%, fees included, no questions asked.

That's a great policy, so kudos to them.

Ah, I forgot about that policy! That is indeed awesome of them - cheers.

While watching the latest episode, I noticed this:

 corgan wrote:
While watching the latest episode, I noticed this:

Spoiler:

And that looks natural, what was shown in the renders looks nothing like that, not even remotely.

I am just not convinced that the boiled leather with molded breasts can be reasonably argued to move the miniatures from "reasonably practical" armor to "unreasonable and impractical" armor. I think you guys are being unreasonable.

They are pretty heavily armored. The boiled leather or plate is on top of chain-mail. There is no cleavage window,no bare midriff, and they aren't showing much if any skin. They are more heavily armored than all the dark age "barbarian" historical miniatures I can think of off the top of my head (vikings, saxon fyrdmen, celts), they are also way more heavily armored than any comparable "barbarian" fantasy miniatures I can think of (GW Mauraders, GW Bloodbound Bloodsoakers of Bloodyness, Copplestone Barbarians, Bronze Age Barbarians).

Wasn't there a stretch goal to include bits to cover the exposed midriffs on the regular 4 bodies? People threatening to ask for a refund if the miniatures don't match exactly what they wanted, seems a little petulant to me.

If the cleavage in the boiled leather was made less pronounced would that satisfy people? Is it the individual breasts themselves that move the miniature from "serious warrior" to "cheesecake"? I'm not being facetious. If she had a man's boiled leather breastplate on over the chainmail, would she then qualify as "serious business"?

I can understand the "Hey, these ladies have boiled leather armor over their chainmail, the other's don't" argument, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.

I don't think anyone has asked for a refund? At least I haven't. The problem (for me) with the one render on the right is that the breast plate does not look right and looks really silly, like a couple of footballs been glued on. Sort that out and I will be happy.

 corgan wrote:
While watching the latest episode, I noticed this:

Spoiler:

That looks quite a bit more sensible. It looks like a full breastplate instead of a plate "bikini" (for lack of a better word), it actually looks like hardened leather (whereas the ones from the sheildmaidens look very much like metal plate due to the design), and the breasts section look more natural, even though the form still looks kind of stupid to me (because taking all hits to the sternum is not good, you know ).

But more than anything, that one looks like it belongs with the rest of the outfit.

Yeah, I am a fan of Yara's boiled leather breastplate and would be happy to see shieldmaidens looking like that (but not so happy with boobplate). I figure that boobplate can be modified to be a bit more like Yara's armour with some green stuff, though I would prefer not to have to.

 Gallahad wrote:
I am just not convinced that the boiled leather with molded breasts can be reasonably argued to move the miniatures from "reasonably practical" armor to "unreasonable and impractical" armor. I think you guys are being unreasonable.

Well, for starters the renders don't really look like leather, but plate, at least to me. If you want to go that way, I'd rather see them go for a full cuirass instead of a "bra". Something like this:



A classic muscle cuirass could also look very cool IMHO, in case they want the minis to look more cheesecakey:


(female version, ofc).

If the cleavage in the boiled leather was made less pronounced would that satisfy people? Is it the individual breasts themselves that move the miniature from "serious warrior" to "cheesecake"? I'm not being facetious. If she had a man's boiled leather breastplate on over the chainmail, would she then qualify as "serious business"?

There's not much actual difference between "a man's" boiled leather breastplate (or any other armor) and "a woman`s". Funnily enough, both have the same general weak body parts, and a need to protect those. The main vertical line of the body is one of those. "Mound" breastplates direct the hits towards the sternum, which personally make me unable to take them seriously.

So, a toning down would help the looks issue for me, and even the plausibility issue too, up to a point.

Also, as I've said above, personally I think that a full breastplate looks much better than what the renders show, and that the detailing makes them look plate instead of leather.

I can understand the "Hey, these ladies have boiled leather armor over their chainmail, the other's don't" argument, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.

The issue is looks, and overabundance of boobplated miniatures versus a comparative lack of more "sensible" ones in the general market. Some people was hoping to see the more "sensible" approach because there is much less of those, particularly in multipart plastics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moving along of the plate controversy, how does everyone feel about the actual poses shown? I feel that, although they will probably rank up well, they might end up looking worse when used alone, a tad too stiff by their lonesome.

Obviously I'd need to see finished miniatures with all their parts, but the four main bodies:




If I understand correctly, these are final poses, and on the post is stated specifically that "As you can see, the bodies don't have any exaggerated poses, we opted for a more disciplined position ("disciplined" for a race of barbarians at least) taking in consideration the weaponry both kits carry (shields and crossbows)".

Although I understand the reasons, I'm not sure they'll look that good as an unranked warband, like you would be using them in games like Frostgrave or Mordheim, for example.

On another note, we revealed another project starting from today, "Monuments of Glory II"
The first two releases are out, more to follow in the coming days :-)

Northern Alliance Krumvaal (Barbarian) Warrior


http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=104&sl=EN

Talliareum Ogre Mercenary






http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=103&sl=EN

Unfortunately, if you want a unit to rank up, you have to accept compromises in pose. Hopefully there will be enough variation in arms to make things look a little less stiff.

Also, that boiled leather armor is much more what I'm talking about. I still think that the heavy plate armor looks ridiculous.

@Duskland
Apart from the choices the sprue will have, all the arms are ball-pointed so the kit allows a wide variety of poses.

Btw, lol, we were 30" too late posting on our new busts! :-)

Those busts look great! And available at http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/ already (not a Kickstarter )

@RiTides
Thank you!
Aye, we don't need any crowdfunding project for these, we are very happy to have regular releases on our website. :-)
(now off to work a bit more on the "regular" part I guess, lol!)

Busts look good.

The poses are not bothering me much. Not super dynamic, but even used individually they are at least in a reasonable pose. They looks like they might be standing comfortably waiting for the big clash to happen, not like perma jumping over a wall or something

Angelos commented in the comment section of the last update on kickstarter...

Creator Shieldwolf Miniatures about 3 hours ago

Hi all! (Angelos here)
I have sat back carefully appreciating the feedback received the past days on update #26. I will try being brief and substantial.
Taking in acount (and that's true for all crowdfunded projects) there's a snowflake's chance in hell to please 100% all 565 backers of this project, there are some main parts to consider in order to keep everyone as happy as possible and secure that Shieldwolf was true to its word:

-The concept artwork shown during the project has to match the final product (and if not match due to tooling issues be at least very close).
-The quality and materials of the miniatures delivered must be the same as stated in the start of this campaign. Same goes for the people assigned to each.
-The additional bodies have to be "non-bare midriff" as clearly stated on the relative SG of update #9.

Reading and assessing all of the above, I remain confident the company has kept loyal to the project. I would be willing to post a poll, had I seen if not a unanimous at least a great negative response and (clearly) this is not the case. Also, facing an already very tight schedule and dealing with the unexpected issue we had (and shared with you) concerning the printed masters, changing the sculpts would only serve to derail the project's schedule further. I am not OK with this.
I *know* some people would have wanted a poll as we are open to all possibilities and we mean to have everyone feel a real part of this campaign, but at the same time I have a task to bring forward and this has been my decision. I both think & hope you will still like the final result regardless, and would like to thank you again for the trust and support.

Thanks for that, Smokestack!

Totally understandable, and like I said, I think this was a misunderstanding from their communication during the campaign. A bit disappointing for them not to discuss the possible 5th normal torso - as that could have provided another torso in the original style. But given their talk of timeline pressure, it seems unlikely to happen unless they totally commit to it.

If anyone wants my pledge at a great discount, please PM me!

Not going to lie I laughed at the part when he said " there's a snowflake's chance in hell to please 100%". So very true. That being said while I would have preferred all chain mail since I am getting 80 of the maidens I am just going to take a the chain-mail girls and make their own unit with just them, so it all works out for me. I can understand points of view from both sides though. As long as they are high quality in the end I will be a very happy camper!

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for that, Smokestack!

Totally understandable, and like I said, I think this was a misunderstanding from their communication during the campaign. A bit disappointing for them not to discuss the possible 5th normal torso - as that could have provided another torso in the original style. But given their talk of timeline pressure, it seems unlikely to happen unless they totally commit to it.

If anyone wants my pledge at a great discount, please PM me!

I would have taken you up on that if they still had bare midriffs.

I'll wait till I get mine but I will probably shift mine or send them back if they come with the bakini plate that was shown in that render.

It is understandable, yes, but well... disappointing all the same. Ah well.

overtyrant wrote:
I'll wait till I get mine but I will probably shift mine or send them back if they come with the bakini plate that was shown in that render.

I'll wait to see them "in the flesh" so to speak, but given the fact that there are basically two sculpts out of six that I see myself using and that there's four boxes coming... yeah, probably will be sending them back or something to that effect. Shame, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wehrkind wrote:The poses are not bothering me much. Not super dynamic, but even used individually they are at least in a reasonable pose. They looks like they might be standing comfortably waiting for the big clash to happen, not like perma jumping over a wall or something

Well, the poses don't bother me too much either, not really, but I have two main problems with them (of course, I haven't seen the arms, which I hyope won't all be straightened, so that surely will give them more movement).

The first problem I have with them is that, as they are single piece legs+torsos combination, there are only so many possibilities (although yes, I understant that it allow them to be more natural).

The second problem is that, seeing all the bruhaha with the boobplates and how much has Shieldwolf hammered us with this:

Hi all! (Angelos here)

-The concept artwork shown during the project has to match the final product (and if not match due to tooling issues be at least very close).

...well, it strikes me as somewhat hypocrital to see it bandied so much for that, and so little for this. These are the concept art shown during the project, you know:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/139394575@N08/24855435522/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139394575@N08/24742542096/

(flickr won't let me just post the images)

...and these are what we apparently are getting:




...and well, they certainly don't match the concept art all that much. So, if "the concept artwork shown during the project has to match the final product (and if not match due to tooling issues be at least very close)", that should be much closer.

As a last thought, I'm not sure how those poses fit with the ranger parts. I assumed those would be some kind of skirmishers.

@Albertorius
I am engaging with you not because I am out to convince you but to replicate to the above post. I do not hide from criticism as it's not in my blood nor character. The issue of a poll came up and I took my time to think this through before posting an answer in that regard. I am 100% certain that what has been promised is going to be delivered, but as I wrote on the KS update page some people will still not be pleased. It happens to all KSs I guess. :-)

You show this picture for the artwork

and say it's not faithful to the final product we are going to tool. You fail to mention the part in the front page where we have explicitely witten that "All models will be given realistic and rank&file fitting poses". I strongly doubt you'd have wanted the 2nd model from the left or even worse the trident wielding lady being sculpted as shown.
On top of that, we had said that there will be some changes on how the minis would look and some items removed/changed e.g. the knee-pads of the 1st model etc. We had prepared actual renders of how the main kit would be like (although in this particular example the weapon was strongly criticized and although we sculpted it it will not go into the final kit).

and not only that but we showed also how the assembly would be like


Last but not least, I read somewhere that the artwork was too small to notice (or something like that). I nor anyone else from my Team saw this and at no point (to my knowledge at least) were we asked about the plated armor and dodged the question nor did anyone ask for larger pictures to which we didn't immediately satisfy the request! But even assuming for argument's sake that the artwork was indeed "too small" and that some backers would have been bothered seeing it being "cheesecake". Take a look at updates #3,#6, #11, #12, #18, #20, #21 and #22, where images are certainly large enough for anyone. Here's a link below to show you.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1508657

It's funny (to me at least) seeing the artwork and claiming that the other artwork would have been diferent. If someone didn't notice in order to be bothered enough to withdraw their pledge (we had 565 backers, that's a considerable amount of eyes looking), that doesn't under any circumstance mean Shieldwolf switched the designs nor mislead anyone. If it was up to me I would have stuck with the initial concept without bothering with additional torsos, But this is a collective effort where we all put our money to create something that wouldn't have been created. We simply complied to a number of change to satisfy what backers were asking for; "non-bare midriff" design. I think it was written a large number of times and I don't know what's the issue here, English might not be my first language but I don't see any language barriers, it's spelled out very clear to me.

I consider myself a person who calls a spade a spade. Had I believed I had presented something wrong, I would have said so; but in all honesty, I don't believe any mispresenation nor misleading comments/images were ever displayed by anyone from Shieldwolf.
If you or anyone else don't like the concept or you have changed your mind, then by all means step on the "quality issue" refund policy (which we both know is not going to be the real reason obviously) and send them back, my instructions are clear and you will be refunded asap, I don't fool around. But stating we are not true to the concept artwork or we are delivering not-as-promised is totally unfair imo and I wanted to tell you that.

Thanks for reading.

Angelos.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

You show this picture for the artwork

Spoiler:

and say it's not faithful to the final product we are going to tool. You fail to mention the part in the front page where we have explicitely witten that "All models will be given realistic and rank&file fitting poses". I strongly doubt you'd have wanted the 2nd model from the left or even worse the trident wielding lady being sculpted as shown.

On top of that, we had said that there will be some changes on how the minis would look and some items removed/changed e.g. the knee-pads of the 1st model etc. We had prepared actual renders of how the main kit would be like (although in this particular example the weapon was strongly criticized and although we sculpted it it will not go into the final kit).

Spoiler:

and not only that but we showed also how the assembly would be like

Spoiler:

Yes, you put that they would be in fitting rank & file poses. "Rank & file" have two main meanings: "The enlisted troops, excluding noncommissioned officers, in an army" and "The people who form the major portion of a group, organization, or society, excluding the leaders and officers". That's what I took from it, not "they will be posed so as to fit neatly in a rank & file unit". Maybe it's because I was expecting to use them for skirmish games that I took "rank & file" as "non heroes".

This is a misunderstanding on my part, but understand that people could get to that misunderstanding pretty easily.

OTOH, you also posted that "all models are currently shown in T-pose (for demonstration purposes only!) and weaponry is a bit oversized compared to what the final miniatures will actually look like!". So we knew that the renders' poses were not representative, there.

Also for the record, I would have been fine being able to do the "come at me, bro!" 2nd pose from the left, and I kind of love the martial arts staff trident wielding fourth pose. Who knew, right?

It's funny (to me at least) seeing the artwork and claiming that the other artwork would have been diferent. If someone didn't notice in order to be bothered enough to withdraw their pledge (we had 565 backers, that's a considerable amount of eyes looking), that doesn't under any circumstance mean Shieldwolf switched the designs nor mislead anyone. If it was up to me I would have stuck with the initial concept without bothering with additional torsos, But this is a collective effort where we all put our money to create something that wouldn't have been created. We simply complied to a number of change to satisfy what backers were asking for; "non-bare midriff" design. I think it was written a large number of times and I don't know what's the issue here, English might not be my first language but I don't see any language barriers, it's spelled out very clear to me.

Language barrier or not... "non-bare midriff" and "non-bare midriff plus plate" seem to not mean the same thing.

Anyways, we've all made our points and the die, as they say, is cast, so there's not much more reason to argue.

@Albertorius
I am not arguing with you (nor with anyone else for that matter), I appreciate the support but I did find the reaction excessive. We were tracking the project like 16-20 hours per day to answer everyone's question(s), just like we did when monitoring forums and private messages, emails and Facebook messages. If someone was unsure, all he had to do is ask.

Anyway, we still have a lot of work to do on the project, as you say this has no meaning dragging it on. :-)

Shieldwolf, as a point of constructive feedback, I'd just like to point out you might want to work on your responses to model critique / feedback. In both if your campaigns, I'm not sure if it's you (Angelos) or Georgios replying... But a ton of text gets typed to "allay any concerns", but the result is almost always "no change".

That's what disappointed me about this - I was so excited to see you finally take feedback, and you continually pointed to this stretch goal for folks asking you to make the last two bodies match two of the originals. I honestly think you're playing it both ways a bit - responding to critiques as if you're taking them onboard, then doing something you'd planned anyway. It would be better in the future to just be more straightforward, it would avoid misunderstandings. As it is now, you're sticking to one thing (rough concept many of us barely noticed, and thought was just that, a concept) and abandoning another (all the communication during the campaign about these torsos meeting the concern people had about the minis). It seems to me that you're using semantics and minimizing some backers you intentionally wooed with this stretch goal, and again to not even address the 5th standard torso (which if done in the original style could please everybody!) is a bummer.

In the end, I want the best for you guys and so have sold my pledge rather than having you ship to me and then pay for a return/refund - as a backer, I really don't want you to have to absorb that. But having backed both your campaigns, I think it's fair to say that all your communication with backers is, in the end, not really influencing your design. This could be very good in some ways - but you would do better to communicate that way during the campaign, rather than to say you are taking on feedback only to toss it aside later, and use semantics to make it sound like the feedback was never out of line with what you created.

Finally, I understand you can't please everyone - but all the more reason to be clear about this during the campaign, rather than to continually respond as if you're taking on feedback (and getting more backers as a result) and then ignore it in implementation.

As I noted, I've sold my pledge so will shoot you a message about changing the delivery address, so that you don't have the expense of the send-and-return process. I got a few PMs - it's clear lots of folks love these! I wish you all the best, and hope my honest feedback of your process from being a part of both your campaigns is helpful.

Looking forward to seeing folks fielding armies of these!

 RiTides wrote:
Shieldwolf, as a point of constructive feedback, I'd just like to point out you might want to work on your responses to model critique / feedback. In both if your campaigns, I'm not sure if it's you (Angelos) or Georgios replying... But a ton of text gets typed to "allay any concerns", but the result is almost always "no change".

That's what disappointed me about this - I was so excited to see you finally take feedback, and you continually pointed to this stretch goal for folks asking you to make the last two bodies match two of the originals. I honestly think you're playing it both ways a bit - responding to critiques as if you're taking them onboard, then doing something you'd planned anyway. It would be better in the future to just be more straightforward, it would avoid misunderstandings. As it is now, you're sticking to one thing (rough concept many of us barely noticed, and thought was just that, a concept) and abandoning another (all the communication during the campaign about these torsos meeting the concern people had about the minis). It seems to me that you're using semantics and minimizing some backers you intentionally wooed with this stretch goal, and again to not even address the 5th standard torso (which if done in the original style could please everybody!) is a bummer.

In the end, I want the best for you guys and so have sold my pledge rather than having you ship to me and then pay for a return/refund - as a backer, I really don't want you to have to absorb that. But having backed both your campaigns, I think it's fair to say that all your communication with backers is, in the end, not really influencing your design. This could be very good in some ways - but you would do better to communicate that way during the campaign, rather than to say you are taking on feedback only to toss it aside later, and use semantics to make it sound like the feedback was never out of line with what you created.

Finally, I understand you can't please everyone - but all the more reason to be clear about this during the campaign, rather than to continually respond as if you're taking on feedback (and getting more backers as a result) and then ignore it in implementation.

As I noted, I've sold my pledge so will shoot you a message about changing the delivery address, so that you don't have the expense of the send-and-return process. I got a few PMs - it's clear lots of folks love these! I wish you all the best, and hope my honest feedback of your process from being a part of both your campaigns is helpful.

Looking forward to seeing folks fielding armies of these!

Are you implying that they should change what they're doing because someone typed a lot? Some of us have not been posting openly here but have been communicating with them privately because there are mods here who DO have a dog in this fight and it's been shown repeatedly that when that's the case, posting a different opinion on how something should be does not go well for the other person.
I'm fully behind Shieldwolf's decision and am happy to see that they are considering the direction of their line, their way rather than trying to pander to a few people with overly specific requirements.

@MLaw
The decision of how we will proceed has been taken and communicated, I'm sure @RiTides doesn't hold on anything changing since he has shifted his pledge elsewhere anyway.

@RiTides
pm'ed on what you wrote, posting here would derail the thread, just like @Albertorious who obviously stands behind your point of view but stoppped posting regardless in order to respect our space here :-)

Thanks for the PM - I definitely wish you success here, too, and just wanted to post that publicly as (again hopefully constructive) feedback. Cheers for your great communication!

 Albertorius wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:The poses are not bothering me much. Not super dynamic, but even used individually they are at least in a reasonable pose. They looks like they might be standing comfortably waiting for the big clash to happen, not like perma jumping over a wall or something

Well, the poses don't bother me too much either, not really, but I have two main problems with them (of course, I haven't seen the arms, which I hyope won't all be straightened, so that surely will give them more movement).

The first problem I have with them is that, as they are single piece legs+torsos combination, there are only so many possibilities (although yes, I understant that it allow them to be more natural).

The second problem is that, seeing all the bruhaha with the boobplates and how much has Shieldwolf hammered us with this:

Hi all! (Angelos here)

-The concept artwork shown during the project has to match the final product (and if not match due to tooling issues be at least very close).

...well, it strikes me as somewhat hypocrital to see it bandied so much for that, and so little for this. These are the concept art shown during the project, you know:

-snip-

...and these are what we apparently are getting:
-snip-

...and well, they certainly don't match the concept art all that much. So, if "the concept artwork shown during the project has to match the final product (and if not match due to tooling issues be at least very close)", that should be much closer.

As a last thought, I'm not sure how those poses fit with the ranger parts. I assumed those would be some kind of skirmishers.

I agree, pretty much across the board. I just like the newer poses better, because I got 80 of the girls hoping to rank them up, not so much use them for skirmishes. So some of the more... esoteric?... flamboyant?... special poses are not very valuable to me. I do hope there are some shield/spear combinations that make it look like they are bracing behind their shield and stabbing from behind it, etc. My thought though is that out of the big 20 girl box, I really want to rank up a regiment and if a few get made into skirmish or low count game models I don't mind doing a little extra converting.

On the armor though, it is a little odd to put up pictures of the individual models, shield lords etc, and say "Oh, this is what the others were going to look like". That wasn't really obvious, considering how much variation there is between heroes to begin with, and the simple fact that heroes are by nature more unique. Plus, I didn't go in for lots of extra heroes because I didn't like them as much, so I am a little displeased to find their style has been added to the base pledge in larger doses. I can deal, but then I can make my own models too, so modding a few midriff torsos to be covered up and having different armor styles and producing 40-50 isn't that big of a deal. If that wasn't an option I can definitely see myself being a little less sanguine about things.

Regarding the communication, there is definitely a lot of it, but as RiTides points out the words imply "We are willing to make changes" while the actions and some other words afterwards say "We are doing what we are doing, take it or leave it." I am totally fine with the latter option, I just wish SW was a little more clear on that from the get go. It is one thing to be polite and avoid saying "No, your ideas are stupid, and you are stupid, so we will never listen! EVER!" but another thing to say "Oh yea, we are totally open to feedback and changes people might like to see" when you really mean "If there are any serious deal breakers, let us know, but otherwise we are going to do what we wanted to initially." Even at this point I am not sure that is quite what you are saying, which makes me wonder how much I should be interacting and pledging, compared to say a Reaper KS where the models are the models, and I spend only what I want to spend on stuff as is, with no hope of improving outcomes on some things.
That said, I am glad to hear you are apparently leaving out the trident (bi-dent?) spear thing.

@MLaw: I think your reading of RiTides' post leaves something to be desired in the comprehension department. He is not implying much other than what he openly stated: It seems that SW is saying they are willing to change and tweak a lot more things than they really are. He isn't even complaining about the lack of tweaks, just that their language doesn't create the expectations that would match their actions.

 MLaw wrote:
I'm fully behind Shieldwolf's decision and am happy to see that they are considering the direction of their line, their way rather than trying to pander to a few people with overly specific requirements.

And they do that by pandering to a few other people with overly specific requirements, of course... ah, whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree, pretty much across the board. I just like the newer poses better, because I got 80 of the girls hoping to rank them up, not so much use them for skirmishes. So some of the more... esoteric?... flamboyant?... special poses are not very valuable to me. I do hope there are some shield/spear combinations that make it look like they are bracing behind their shield and stabbing from behind it, etc. My thought though is that out of the big 20 girl box, I really want to rank up a regiment and if a few get made into skirmish or low count game models I don't mind doing a little extra converting.

That's a perfectly understandable position. As I said, I'm not overly bothered by it. It's just that I'd have preferred them to be a tad more dynamic.

EDIT: But as I said, Shieldwolf has already made their decision, and there's no need for more arguing. Some people will get what they wanted and some people will not. That's life for ya.

"Willing to accept your feedback" does not automatically mean "willing to act on it".

I haven't followed this whole thing, but it seems Shieldwolf laid out their reasons for not taking the feedback on board this time quite well.

~Eric

Taarnak, I totally agree - they've laid it out really, really clearly here, and I have no issue with them moving forward in that direction. The only point of constructive criticism I wanted to make was that, during the campaign, at least some of us understood their communication about the aesthetic and purpose of these alternate parts differently (and is there anything they could do differently in that regard in the future). They are definitely free to pursue whatever direction they like!

Hopefully, that is an easy fix to make for future campaigns - and again, honestly wishing them all the best with this one, and in the future!

 Taarnak wrote:
"Willing to accept your feedback" does not automatically mean "willing to act on it".

I haven't followed this whole thing, but it seems Shieldwolf laid out their reasons for not taking the feedback on board this time quite well.

~Eric

That's true, but it does imply that some feedback will be acted upon, generally more than a small amount. The extreme cases are "You tell us stuff, we act on nothing" which is functionally equivalent to "We do not accept any feedback", and then "We do whatever anyone who posts online tells us to do" which is way too much attention to feedback. During the campaign they sounded closer to the latter, more likely to act on feedback side of things, and now in practice they are more towards the "We don't really accept feedback" end. Really, either is fine, it is just nicer when people are more upfront about it. I might have waited for a retail release on this KS if I knew the real version was going to be more like "We are making something, and it will be what we want without regard to the customer preferences." Or at least I would have invested less. Its always a risk that a KS won't result in the things you want, but with the company accepting feedback it makes it seem more likely, especially when they say something like "We hear your feedback and are making it a stretch goal."

ArtIsGreat wrote:
Ha, some people won't be happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form. In a fantasy setting :-)

If this is aimed at me, I believe you are mistaking my frugality and converting addiction with some rather extreme gender politics. I chose Men at Arms because they have rather androgynous torsos lacking the masculine V-shape and GBP because they are heroically scaled to the point of cartoon shapelessness, but armored. Keira Nightly types...or maybe more Dorothy Patrillo. Using the spare heads and a more regular, armored kit to good result would make me feel less silly assembling a few bare-bellied crazies asking to be gutted. At least I'll have half a box worth of armored, shapely women, a quarter box with more elite types, and a few sculpted cuirass heroines if the boob plate can pass as such. If not, then some time-traveling cosplayers.

It's not unusual to try to match up Shielwolf's kits with compatible parts. After all, their Mountain Orcs' waist and wrist joints are perfectly interchangeable with Avatars of War's Dwarf Berserkers'.

I'd been waiting to see that! Thank you!

What did you call it? "Reverse Mantic Trollism" or something along those lines?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd been waiting to see that! Thank you!

What did you call it? "Reverse Mantic Trollism" or something along those lines?

I forget. But it definitely included the word "Mantic".

A scale shot.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

ArtIsGreat wrote:
Ha, some people won't be happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form. In a fantasy setting :-)

If this is aimed at me, I believe you are mistaking my frugality and converting addiction with some rather extreme gender politics. I chose Men at Arms because they have rather androgynous torsos lacking the masculine V-shape and GBP because they are heroically scaled to the point of cartoon shapelessness, but armored. Keira Nightly types...or maybe more Dorothy Patrillo. Using the spare heads and a more regular, armored kit to good result would make me feel less silly assembling a few bare-bellied crazies asking to be gutted. At least I'll have half a box worth of armored, shapely women, a quarter box with more elite types, and a few sculpted cuirass heroines if the boob plate can pass as such. If not, then some time-traveling cosplayers.

It is funny, though, how wanting coherent garments for a certain activity is almost always equated with "not being happy until they put female heads on male bodies, furious and appalled at any hint of female form". As if, for some reason, having the guts unprotected is the sensible thing to do in the situation, or something...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Oh even hours later it just appends >_>
Oh, actual question for Shieldwolf: sprues!

What is finally going to be included in the Shieldmaiden boxes with the Silver and Gold rewards?

So far I know for certain that there will be:
- 20 regular bodies and backs (4 of which have been previewed already)
- a number of armored bodies from the "non-bare midriff" SG
- Command Group upgrades (they said 2 per box, IIRC)
- Ranger parts (weaponry/back torsos/heads)

So, that's fact. Now, assumptions:
- Given that the "non-bare midriff" was (partly, it turns out) made to address the fact that people didn't want to use the bare midridd bodies, I'm assuming there should be enough per box to substitute them. So either 8 or 12?
- Command Group's SG says "enough to make two CGs per box", so I'm assuming here two banners, 2 musicians and 2 champions parts bundles.
- Rangers: the SG says "new bits in order to create a dual kit of Shieldmaiden Rangers", so I'm assuming... 20 of each, at least, to be able to build a full unit out of the box?

I'm not sure how on the money I'm on this, tbh. Also, other than that, we don't know what will exactly be there on the prue: how many heads, and non-wavy heads? How many arms/weapons/weapon configurations? Shields? etc.

Are the sprues layout more or less finalized as of now, in which case you'll probably be able to give definite numbers, or are they still being worked on?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Best if we stick to the topic at hand indeed.

Thanks.

I love the chainmal vest on the second gal from the left. Visually interesting, a tunic beneath for cold weather and fantasy-ish/"sexy" without being comical.

Since that is the 5th torso who probably won't show up I hope it the design in another model/kit.

 Albertorius wrote:
Oh, actual question for Shieldwolf: sprues!

What is finally going to be included in the Shieldmaiden boxes with the Silver and Gold rewards?

So far I know for certain that there will be:
- 20 regular bodies and backs (4 of which have been previewed already)
- a number of armored bodies from the "non-bare midriff" SG
- Command Group upgrades (they said 2 per box, IIRC)
- Ranger parts (weaponry/back torsos/heads)

So, that's fact.

Facts:
-20 front torsos in each box (2 different "non-bare" midriff + 2 different bare midriff, all 4 of which shown on update #26)
-2 "non-bare" midriff SG ( in each box, the ones voted on and shown on update #26)
-Command Group ugrades, 2 in each box (affirmative)
-Rangers parts (we will add some crossbows/capes/hooded heads to make this into a dual kit, affirmative)

 Albertorius wrote:

Now, assumptions:
- Given that the "non-bare midriff" was (partly, it turns out) made to address the fact that people didn't want to use the bare midridd bodies, I'm assuming there should be enough per box to substitute them. So either 8 or 12?
- Command Group's SG says "enough to make two CGs per box", so I'm assuming here two banners, 2 musicians and 2 champions parts bundles.
- Rangers: the SG says "new bits in order to create a dual kit of Shieldmaiden Rangers", so I'm assuming... 20 of each, at least, to be able to build a full unit out of the box?

-The "non-bare" midriff SG was created for people wanting more practical armor, you assume correct that there will be enough bodies/torsos to substitute the "bare-midriff" versions. This means that if the 5th torso on the main sprue does not fit you are looking at having 5 of each type on each box. The needle currently points that the 5th torso will not fit.
-Correct. On top of that we are trying to "break" the banner in half in order to provide an additional 2 spears in each box (we will see how that works out).
-Partially correct. 20 crossbows, 20 capes (in order to provide a uniform look on the troops) and some hooded heads, number of which has not been decided on yet. You can rest assured we are not going to tool/place the same item and multiple them 10 times on the sprues, we are stretching this to provide a large number of combinations from the same kit making sure it's second to none. :-)

 Albertorius wrote:

I'm not sure how on the money I'm on this, tbh. Also, other than that, we don't know what will exactly be there on the prue: how many heads, and non-wavy heads? How many arms/weapons/weapon configurations? Shields? etc.
Are the sprues layout more or less finalized as of now, in which case you'll probably be able to give definite numbers, or are they still being worked on?

Nope, it is being worked on, the masters being delayed sure doesn't help us speed this up.
Weapons and shields we are not in grade to say with certainty right now, 5-6 for each is the main plan however. A couple of bits too in order to customize more. With the unlocked SG heads we are looking at 16-17 different head sculpts who should be available from a minimum of two to a maximum of three times per box (for a minimum total of 32-34 heads in the first case and 48-51 heads in the second case). The needle currently points to the second case.

 Albertorius wrote:
Thanks in advance for any info.

You are welcome :-)


@Binabik15
The 5th torso was halted at WiP, it has not been shown yet. All 6 torsos we have shown till now on update #26 are all going on the sprues, any additional items (e.g. more shields, more heads, more weapons etc) we will have to work out and decide. The torso however is too big and we knew and told from the start it's going to be hard to fit in. Until final lay-out has been decided, we prefer being upfront and saying it will not fit since chances ar it will not, but if id does fit, then that's going to be a nice surprise for everyone involved... :-)

Thank you, that was very informative

Hmm, if I'm reading this right, it basically means you will be able to build 30 minis per KS box... that is a whole lot of minis, and really great value.

 Albertorius wrote:
Thank you, that was very informative

Hmm, if I'm reading this right, it basically means you will be able to build 30 minis per KS box... that is a whole lot of minis, and really great value.

The box doesn't have 30 "complete" models, but with a little GS work or kitbaching from various other kits (we would reccomend Citadel Miniatures kits as they will probably fit our quality and scale) people should be able to get to that number, yes.
That's also the reason we shake our heads here at Shieldwolf HQ when we read "I have 80 of them coming!" since they are referring to pledges consisting of 4 boxes. But, if they want to add some conversion work, and assuming they haven't pledged for a Mammoth + howdah (where an additional 8-10 models will be included!) then that's not 80, more like 120. And to that we will have to add another 4-5 models of the free srpue SG at 500 backers.
Don't forget that Angelos was adding his own money to make this a great experience and a great deal.

Yeah, try adding another 15K which we never reached for another 40 free Warmaiden models SG and go figure...

I don't know how many folks will be able to convert the missing backs, but that is still great. I'm looking forward to seeing the actual sprues and what really makes it onto them (when the time comes, of course).

 RiTides wrote:
I don't know how many folks will be able to convert the missing backs, but that is still great.

We are looking into how we can have enough backs to avoid the need for conversions. Once we get a clear idea of the final lay-out we will be able to make a better decision :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I don't know how many folks will be able to convert the missing backs, but that is still great.

We are looking into how we can have enough backs to avoid the need for conversions. Once we get a clear idea of the final lay-out we will be able to make a better decision :-)

I think that the amount of green stuff sculpting needed to fill in the backs would be minimal if I choose to then cover the back with one of the included capes or shields. That's what I'm going to try to do.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Thank you, that was very informative

Hmm, if I'm reading this right, it basically means you will be able to build 30 minis per KS box... that is a whole lot of minis, and really great value.

The box doesn't have 30 "complete" models, but with a little GS work or kitbaching from various other kits (we would reccomend Citadel Miniatures kits as they will probably fit our quality and scale) people should be able to get to that number, yes.
That's also the reason we shake our heads here at Shieldwolf HQ when we read "I have 80 of them coming!" since they are referring to pledges consisting of 4 boxes. But, if they want to add some conversion work, and assuming they haven't pledged for a Mammoth + howdah (where an additional 8-10 models will be included!) then that's not 80, more like 120. And to that we will have to add another 4-5 models of the free srpue SG at 500 backers.
Don't forget that Angelos was adding his own money to make this a great experience and a great deal.

Yeah, try adding another 15K which we never reached for another 40 free Warmaiden models SG and go figure...

The value is absolutely great, I don't think anyone could possibly complain about that in good faith.

If I understand correctly how the pieces work, though, the ranger capes have the back pieces, right? If so, you really can do 30 per box with no gs or kitbash whatsoever (and if that's not the case the render of the armored gal with the cape is confusing :p). Anyways, great value. Have you thought about doing an "all backs" bundle, maybe with resin additional backs or something, so that those of your backers not so gifted with kitbashing could build the extra shielmaidens with a relatively small additional expense?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I don't know how many folks will be able to convert the missing backs, but that is still great.

We are looking into how we can have enough backs to avoid the need for conversions. Once we get a clear idea of the final lay-out we will be able to make a better decision :-)

I think that the amount of green stuff sculpting needed to fill in the backs would be minimal if I choose to then cover the back with one of the included capes or shields. That's what I'm going to try to do.

Yep. From the looks of it, you'd probably only need a gs ball for that.

Another option would be to clip the figure at the waist and use a third party torso. I have to admit, I'm struggling to think of any that would fit thematically but it's at least worth noting.

That isn't a terrible idea really, I think I have a half dozen different armored torsos floating around of the vaguely female variety. I will let you guys know if I find some that scale nicely. If I don't have any, I might do some basic sculpting myself and cast up a few dozen. I have been meaning to sculpt something that isn't porcine based lately

Finally some more love for the Undead!

Undead King






Available from today at http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=106

Zombie Warrior






Available from today at http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=105

Homage to a great game from which we got inspired for this unique work of art, the River Orc Great Shaman.
This model towers over everything else we have ever created before, weighing over 1,5kg(!), and will be the last released for this project of ours.

Just dropping the teaser here :-)



Edit: One more release coming in a couple of hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yet one more release before our Orc gets released... and that's not the last of them!

Make way for the lady please... the Warmaiden Chieftess

Hope you like her as much as we do! :-D






Available at http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=107

Thank you! :-)

We weren't expecting so much love for the Undead(!) this has tilted our production schedule a bit but we are very very thankful! We should complete our Bust releases by next week and then get on with Terrain and more 28mm scale miniatures for our game :-)
Also, we shared in another forum a couple of images of items that while sculpted will for one reason or another never end up going into production, but thought I'd share these here nonetheless :-)

The Maagrats(TM) is the registered name for our mercenary rat warriors race, a non-main army we look forward to putting into production one day



The Elves of the Order Banner Bearer had instead a dual kit with the Shadow elves (whom along with the Oak Elves are the three factions that consist our Elf army)



For the time being we are looking forward to our nordic armies and the mystery project we are working on for T9A.
More news will strike at the ETC held here in Athens where we will be present! :-)

Progress on the Shieldmaiden army is going along nicely, we have finished with their iconic cavalry and thought to drop this here to have a look.
Hope you like them as much as we do! :-)

Damn they look pretty good indeed, I wish I had the money to invest at the time but they are going o the to buy list for sure.

I liked the look of the ranger model from the email. Was just slightly concerned about the billowing cloak - does it get in the way of ranking them up?

The bears look great!

@Micky
Valid point. Certain combinations of cloaks can indeed not go one next to another. There are plenty of others however that do not have this issue. Also, taking into account the "windy" version, it woul have looked wrong to have the hair "flying" while the cloaks remained straight.
With the occassion I would like to remind/clarify that the box will be made in such manner so all 20 models of the Rangers will carry capes (i.e. we avoided having some with and some without, we want a uniform look on the unit).

@warboss @lone dirty dog
Thank you, glad you like them! :-D

Mini competition!

Why are we doing this? Well, just for kicks! :-D
Enter here to receive free miniatures from Shieldwolf! :-)



http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?thread/13673-euro-2016/&postID=329211#post329211

Very nice. I haven't checked these out before. Are any on sale or is everything work from the KS? Looking fwd to seeing these on the table.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Very nice. I haven't checked these out before. Are any on sale or is everything work from the KS? Looking fwd to seeing these on the table.

Thank you! They will be available for retail sale after the KS backers get theirs. That should put them no sooner than January 2017, we are currently sculpting their riders :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Very nice. I haven't checked these out before. Are any on sale or is everything work from the KS? Looking fwd to seeing these on the table.

Thank you! They will be available for retail sale after the KS backers get theirs. That should put them no sooner than January 2017, we are currently sculpting their riders :-)

Thanks for the info. Looking fwd to it. And fantastic you make sure backers get theirs first. Sad I missed this KS

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Progress on the Shieldmaiden army is going along nicely, we have finished with their iconic cavalry and thought to drop this here to have a look.
Hope you like them as much as we do! :-)

Spoiler:

@Jerram
Thank you, very happy they exceeded the expectaions! They will also be bigger than you're probably expecting too! As for the mouth on the middle one we are pretty sure it's fine as when we had pictures from the sculptor we didn't notice anything out of place. Bear sculpts should arrive this week, they are currently in transit.

As for our next smaller plastic KS project, it's revealed in 30 days from today.... :-D

As long as the bears fit on 50x50 bases without tooooo much overhang I'll be happy

@Micky
Once they are in our hands and have casted a couple of samples we can always shoot a picture on how that would look/fit on 50mmx50mm. The bases destined for these however are 75mmx50mm. :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

The bases destined for these however are 75mmx50mm. :-)

This is also okay

Shieldwolf Miniatures Newsletter, July 7th 2016.

Good day to all! :-D

We are happy to reveal that the Team at Shieldwolf HQ is busier than ever! Not only is the fulfillment process of our very successful Shieldmaiden KS at full speed but there are also talks with new distributors interesting in collaborating with Shieldwolf Miniatures in countries like the USA, Holland and the UK.

Shieldwolf Miniatures has completed the releases of the fantasy busts in the project "Monuments of Glory-2" with great success, although technical reasons have currently disallowed the jewel of our collection to be released (we are referring to the River Orc Great Shaman). The warmth with which painters and collectors once again received the project indicates to a very possible "Monuments of Glory-3".

"War is Coming" game is going to be deprived of almost 90% of its funding for the next 2 to 3 years. The remaining 10% will be directed for artwork and editing of the fluff/fantasy storylines Angelos is going to keep on writing. The reserved funds will be instead directed in vastly augmenting the 28mm miniature range in support of T9A.

Concerning T9A, there are two things we'd like to publicly share with you:

First has to do with yet another innovative move from Shieldwolf Miniatures, being once again the first to publicly announce STARTER ARMY PACKS dedicated to T9A community and to be released in 2017. These are going to allow newcomers an easier entrance to the fantasy wargaming hobby, disregarding what some call "entry barrier" and offering a starter army of the highest quality (both sculpt and material wise) ready to field and play!
The following packs have already been decided upon
-Shieldmaiden Starter Army
-Orc Starter Army
-Shieldmaidens vs Orcs
hopefully with many more to come. We hope and believe more manufacturers are going to try and follow our example just like they followed our lead when we actively supported T9A as the first established manufacturer doing so!

Second thing we'd like to share with you is that we will be present in the Athens ETC (of which we are proud sponsors) and we are very eager to meet and interact with you and also answer any questions you might have.
In the meanwhile... happy wargaming! :-)

Thank you.

The Shieldwolf Team.

For those reading who may not know what the heck a T9A is (like myself), a couple of google searchs reveal it's probably referring to The Ninth Age, the fan made WHFB 9th edition alternative to GW's Age of $igmar. It's also an energy company stock, some electronics equipment, a video game gun, and some cosmetics.

Minis looking good - look forward to getting them!

This might be of interest for folks to use with Shieldwolf's spider ladies (maybe as a character) but only "free" if you sign up in the next few weeks it seems:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/695445.page#8766070

Just thought it worth sharing since folks are eagerly awaiting those from Shieldwolf and it looks like a great fit

 RiTides wrote:
This might be of interest for folks to use with Shieldwolf's spider ladies (maybe as a character) but only "free" if you sign up in the next few weeks it seems:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/695445.page#8766070

Just thought it worth sharing since folks are eagerly awaiting those from Shieldwolf and it looks like a great fit

Oh yes, the model seems a bit large so as a character or something like that it could certainly work out!
Since you referred to our Aracnomaidens, we are even considering them being in hard plastic if funding goes high, as we would really like something like that to happen so we are currently getting quotes for that. We are talking about a dual kit that each would make out 3 models, either the "normal" version or the, errr... not so normal!

Also, while the follow-up KS on the Shieldmaidens (i.e. for their Warmaidens etc we would like to create to complete their army) will be launched as promised only after we have delivered to our backers, we are revealing a smaller KS on the 5th of August to launch soon after.

Below I am going to write down what we discussed a few months ago.
Please note that everything below is referring to hard-plastic (no hybrids) destined for Renedra tooling and with the addition of a few characters or smaller stuff in resin. On top of that, we designed a few stretch goals also in hard-plastic should the project be more succesful, but we will be content even if it funds by a single buck. For example, the first army I'm writing down, the Minotaur Army, also includes plastic Centaurii (centaurs) and plastic minotaur chariots, but I'm only going to write down how we'll be pitching with!

(In parenthesis I'm writing what T9A army we would be destining these for)

Minotaur Army (BH)
Yeti Army (OK)
Araves Charemises Army (DE)
Gluttonic Warriors Army (DL)
Saurian Merceneries Army (SA)
Forest Goblins Army (O&G)
Albino Vermin Army (VS)
Exiled Avengers Army (ID)
Talliareum Cataphraiti Army (KoE)
Wardens of Order Army (HE)
Oak Elf Infantry Army (SE)
Zombie Warriors Army (VC)
Northern Alliance Krumvaal Army (WDG)
Dwarfish Great Guardians Army (DH)
Warriors of Redemption Army (EoS)


The Charemises Army, errr, try to imagine arabian belly dancers. Sexy, but... super lethal!!!
Orcs have not been mentioned since we have plans for the Valley Orcs but we'll see whether we could avoid KS and do them ourselves. Also, as you can see we have not touched UD out of respect and common interest since another fellow manufacturer supporting T9A has openly expressed doing that. Chances were that it would have been discarded anyway in favor of something else, Angelos is still trying to see how it will fit in our world (probably part of our Araves race is the best bet).

Now that all this has been revealed... Cheers!

includes plastic Centaurii (centaurs)

Ok... I am very interested now. Really looking forward to seeing some concept art for these!

Centaurii? I anxiously await the announcement of the Vorlonns and Minbarii as well.

Vorlons would be my favorites too, but don't forget the Narn!

Shush you lot,

you know Yetis are the best choice

I'd likely be very interested in some Minotaur army models!

Plastic minotaurs that looked like minotaurs instead of slabs and cubes of beef stitched together a la GW would be a sight to behold.

My heart lies with the Saurians though.

 warboss wrote:
Centaurii? I anxiously await the announcement of the Vorlonns and Minbarii as well.

Man, those Spaarti Cylindars are popping out all kinds of clones.

Add +1 vote to the Minotaur Army bandwagon.

All I ask is, make'm big, make them look like actual bovines with a bit of intellect, and make some wizards/priests.

Minotaur magic user miniatures are few and far between.

I also love it when they're all armored up too. Full (Bull) plate armor looks quite badass on a horned giant.

They'd be perfect for riding the awesome shieldwolf War Mamooth's as well. Or maybe they can ride some wooley rhinos, or other prehistoric mammals.

The pinnacle of armored minotaurs in my opinion is Mierce's Ckaarakk



Not even Mierce's other minotaurs compare to this guy.

We need more stuff like him, fully decked out and ready to rock.

While my personal preference would be for a minotaurs mini ks, I think the most likely, (and my official guess) is Goblins.

They have shown us sculpts and art already, and I think they may have been planned as part of the original campaign.

I think that some form of High Elves would actually be the money maker as nobody makes decent and affordable basic high elf infantry, the GW kits are ugly, and the Mantic kits only acceptable if you envision Elves as skeletons dressed in padded lycra bodysuits. Seriously, somebody make decent Elves already. Or Minotaurs.

I'm hoping for high fantasy Araves.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
The pinnacle of armored minotaurs in my opinion is Mierce's Ckaarakk



Not even Mierce's other minotaurs compare to this guy.

We need more stuff like him, fully decked out and ready to rock.

I fully agree! Gotta give props to my first fully armored minotaur though.



And I always liked this guy from confrontation too.

 Gallahad wrote:

I think that some form of High Elves would actually be the money maker as nobody makes decent and affordable basic high elf infantry,...

If you're not looking for multipart, Gamezone did their gorgeous Elf spearmen in plastic and they're dirt cheap.

@Mutter
These elves are lovely indeed! They are resin and very well priced from what I can see.

@Higlhlord
These are detailed but too skiny for our taste, our vision resembles more the confrontation model shown from @skullking.

@BobtheInquisitor @Gallahad
No comment! ;-)

Arabian belly dancer army would be a must have for me. Hands down.

Hmm. Honestly I was hoping for a more "traditional" take on fantasy Arabs. Belly-dancer assassins as one unit in an army? Awesome. But the whole lot? Eh, I'd rather have some proper infantry and decent Djinn models. EDIT: And when I say "proper infantry", I'm thinking of stuff like Brother Vinni's Corsair models.

But, s'not my company eh, we'll see what comes of the idea

Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

Are the Fireforge Arabs on the market? I have some of the gbp plastic infantry and heavy cavalry, but they leave a lot to be desired. Their proportions are dumpy, their faces goofy, and their options limited very limited. Shieldwolf would certainly create a better product.

Hilariously, the Mongolian steppe ponies and the world-famous Arabian horses are exactly the same size and shape in those plastic kits. So much for my 'heavenly horses' conversion...

Am I going to have to find 1/48 horses for my heroes to stand out?

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

I must have missed the part where historicals were fantasy and heroic scaled.

 Yodhrin wrote:

I must have missed the part where historicals were fantasy and heroic scaled.

Mantic has Gripping Beast and Fireforge (I think) in their books when covering the Kingdoms of Men armies. And those plastic units aren't true scale 25mm, or even 28mm.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

I must have missed the part where historicals were fantasy and heroic scaled.

Gripping Beast and Fireforge certainly are. And Conquest. And Warlord.

Not so much Perry...

 judgedoug wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

I must have missed the part where historicals were fantasy and heroic scaled.

Gripping Beast and Fireforge certainly are. And Conquest. And Warlord.

Not so much Perry...

They're really not. None of the historical ranges scale well with heroic fantasy models, the Fireforge knights and sergeants for example look like children next to Bretonnians or Empire cavalry. EDIT: And before anyone hurts themselves clenching - no, that is not a slight against those ranges quality, they're (mostly)very nice historical models. What they're not, by any stretch, is suitable for use in fantasy heroic armies if you even slightly care about maintaining a consistent scale.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
Gripping Beast makes plastic Arab Infantry , Light Cav, and Heavy Cav for a very reasonable cost.

Fireforge makes plastic Mongolian/Steppe if you want something more Eastern. They also make Arab plastics and Russian plastics as well, depending on exactly what you want to model for Middle Eastern inpired armies.

These would be easy to add a few fantasy models to.

I must have missed the part where historicals were fantasy and heroic scaled.

Gee, thanks for the snark.

Artizan Designs also do chunky Arabs, and there are others (GB metal models are all chunky). Many fantasy models scale perfectly fine with non GW models. My Foundry and Gripping Beast vikings scale perfectly with Mordheim bits, and do okay with Wargames Factory or Red Box Games' models.

My Perry's don't tend to mix well with Conquest/Fireforge models if in the same unit, but if they are seperate units they look fine together on the table top. My Templars use Perry Hospitalers for the mounted milites and Fireforge for the foot Sergeants.

Any of the excellent historical ranges would work perfectly fine for your rank and file units, and, you know, look practical and not be wielding weapons that you are more likely to cut yourself with then your enemy (assuming of course you could even lift it). Slap down a few units of historical spear with some fantasy Djinn on the side and it would look just fine. The truly fantastic models can be slightly bigger and it will make them more 'heroic' in comparison if you want that sort of thing.

All snark aside, the original comment expressed a desire for proper arab armies, and at no point did I say Shieldwolf couldn't do non arabic arabs or that they would look bad, but rather offered suggestions for ways to achieve that while only needing select alternate models. As an example, you could create a stunning Nippon army for the fandex WFB list using mostly WGF Samurai for the rank and file/cav, and pick up fantasy dragons/ninja/oni/whatever to flesh it out. Many excellent armies have done just that.

WGF Samurai are an excellent kit. I wish the GB and FF kits were half as versatile. In any case, I wouldn't want to see Shieldwolf make a kit that could be confused as a historical kit.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


@Higlhlord
These are detailed but too skiny for our taste, our vision resembles more the confrontation model shown from @skullking.

Sounds good to me!

Here are some other favorite minotaurs of mine to inspire you.









Anyone else have any minotaur figures they think are really cool?

That Ilyad Minotaur is sooooo gorgeous.
Shame it's not available anymore.

I always liked this one, from Confrontation:

Armies eliminated for the coming KS:

-Yeti Army (OK)

-Gluttonic Warriors Army (DL)

-Albino Vermin Army (VS)

-Exiled Avengers Army (ID)

-Dwarfish Great Guardians Army (DH)

most recent army that didn't make the cut:
-Warriors of Redemption Army (medieval fantasy army) eliminated




Still in the run:

-Minotaur Army (BH)
-Araves Charemises Army (DE)
-Saurian Merceneries Army (SA)
-Forest Goblins Army (O&G)
-Talliareum Cataphraiti Army (KoE)
-Wardens of Order Army (HE)
-Oak Elf Infantry Army (SE)
-Zombie Warriors Army (VC)
-Northern Alliance Krumvaal Army (WDG)

Only 4 days left to see who's guessed it right, in the meanwhile the Shieldmaiden Kickstarter is progressing, here's the latest mini revealed...





We would have gone for a brunette version to be honest but we allow artists freedom of expression and this version from the painter looks great too in our opinion!

I like that model much more than the previous heros - looks like she could actually kick arse! Very nice work

Looking very nice!

Are backers able to up their pledges to grab some of the new models now that they are becoming physical reality?

@Wehrkind
That's our intention, but to do that we must first improve the Pledge Manager to make it more user friendly. There's some very heavy pressure placed on the company commissioned to do it, we are expecting it to meet our standards and be available again by end of September.
But the PM is not going to open before Mammoths ship and the imminent KS has finished. One thing at a time, we prefer losing some potential additional funds instead of risking getting too much on our plate to handle (apologies if this expression doesn't makes much sense but I think you get my point).

Cool, yea that's fine. I don't have any mammoth's on order, but I will probably want to add some singles and heroes before everything ships

The Athens 2016 ETC finds Shieldwolf Miniatures sponsoring the event, a great gathering for the 3 most popular games wordwide: Warhammer 40K dominating science fiction, T9A quenching the thirst for fantasy supporters and Flames of War for the historical passionates.

The first winners of WH-40K for the Singles division that started yesterday and finished today have been decided!!! Congratulations to everyone!

Looks awesome, but other than 40k I'd be careful characterizing those as the "3 most popular games worldwide"! X-wing, Malifaux, Infinity, Kings of War, etc all have a lot of popularity and which is more depends on the country / location.

In general, it's pretty cool that you're supporting 9th Age but many of us are buying your models for use in other games, too - Frostgrave, KoW, RPGs, and more

 RiTides wrote:
Looks awesome, but other than 40k I'd be careful characterizing those as the "3 most popular games worldwide"! X-wing, Malifaux, Infinity, Kings of War, etc...

The ones you mention (to my knowledge) are side-events and I think the games popularity is decided by voting; there was also Age of Sigmar from Citadel Miniatures and Kings of War as you pointed out by Mantic Games. Both of which didn't receive any particular warm welcome by the voters.
Again, I may be mistaken but I think that's what happened on the forum where the countries partecipating voted. A forum which we rarely visit however, so take this with a small pinch of salt.

I had edited my post a bit . No disrespect for 9th Age, just noting a lot of us want to buy your stuff even though we don't play it (the strength of fantasy minis in general!).

I missed the edit tbh, doesn't change what I wrote though. Your opinion is respected like any other wargamer's and I'm sure others share it, I didn't challenge that, I just wrote that to our knowledge people vote among the candidates and these three are what they decided to play (hence "more popular").
Who knows, maybe in a few years people will drop T9A and play AoS for ETC. In that case I am sure Citadel Miniatures can sponsor that on their own and we'll get back to developing War is Coming. I have my reasons to doubt all that happening, but we'll see what time brings... :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Looks awesome, but other than 40k I'd be careful characterizing those as the "3 most popular games worldwide"! X-wing, Malifaux, Infinity, Kings of War, etc...

The ones you mention (to my knowledge) are side-events and I think the games popularity is decided by voting; there was also Age of Sigmar from Citadel Miniatures and Kings of War as you pointed out by Mantic Games. Both of which didn't receive any particular warm welcome by the voters.
Again, I may be mistaken but I think that's what happened on the forum where the countries partecipating voted. A forum which we rarely visit however, so take this with a small pinch of salt.

X-Wing is huge. Also worth pointing out, when I saw the mention of "SWM", I thought of Secret Weapon Miniatures first, not Shieldwolf. I legitimately wondered if you guys were working together for a moment there.

 Azazelx wrote:
X-Wing is huge. Also worth pointing out, when I saw the mention of "SWM", I thought of Secret Weapon Miniatures first, not Shieldwolf. I legitimately wondered if you guys were working together for a moment there.

X-Wing is absolutely huge these days, but the tournament scene is managed by FFG, both directly and by tourney packs, so the players are probable already catered to.

@Azazelx @Albertorius
OK, I stand corrected then, I genuinely weren't following X-wing and drew conclusion judging from the partecipants in ETC, apparently a wrong judgment as two forum members pointed out how large this game currently is :-)

We just came back from the venue, got to rest a bit as the day was long and filled with excitement -which is quite energy draining after the adrenaline wears out it seems!

Today is one of the Team members (Dimitrios) birthday, so the day is still long...

 Azazelx wrote:
[...] Also worth pointing out, when I saw the mention of "SWM", I thought of Secret Weapon Miniatures first, not Shieldwolf. I legitimately wondered if you guys were working together for a moment there.[...]

Corrected it to SwM then :-)

Also, a brief interview with Angelos at the ETC held these days in Athens, if you look carefully there are two spoilers in it!

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Azazelx @Albertorius
OK, I stand corrected then, I genuinely weren't following X-wing and drew conclusion judging from the partecipants in ETC, apparently a wrong judgment as two forum members pointed out how large this game currently is :-)

We just came back from the venue, got to rest a bit as the day was long and filled with excitement -which is quite energy draining after the adrenaline wears out it seems!

Today is one of the Team members (Dimitrios) birthday, so the day is still long...

Best wishes for Dimitrios. But never mind the slightly snarky "apparently", or what "two forum members" pointed out. There's hard data to back it up. We're not pulling numbers out of our arses or going by what a local tourney or store says in isolation.

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/35145/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2016

TOP 5 NON-COLLECTIBLE MINIATURE GAMES--SPRING 2016
From ICv2's 'Internal Correspondence' #90
Posted by ICv2 on August 1, 2016 @ 2:55 am CT

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This chart of the Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines (hobby channel) reflects sales in Spring 2016. The charts are based on interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers.

Top 5 Non-Collectible Miniature Lines – Spring 2016
Title Publisher
1 Star Wars X-Wing Fantasy Flight Games
2 Warhammer 40K Games Workshop
3 Star Wars Armada Fantasy Flight Games
4 Warmachine Privateer Press
5 Star Trek Attack Wing WizKids
These bestseller lists are from ICv2's Internal Correspondence #90. For more information on the game market in Spring 2016, see "Hobby Games Market Nearly $1.2 Billion."

Now these numbers come from distributors and independent retailers in the US - so it does not include GW's own direct sales via the web or their own stores, nor does it cover other regions outside of the US (maybe .ca as well?) - but it's still a pretty decent metric. You'll also note that AoS is absent - (which is reportedly selling about twice as well as WHFB was when it was axed) - about 30% of GW sales - info from GW Annual Report - discussion elsewhere on this site in Dakka Discussions. Hordes is absent (despite the same, compatible system, they are different SKUs and counted separately.

Here's the thing - AoS is WHFB's replacement and is absent from this list. It's selling roughly twice as well as WHFB which is (was) the "big dog" that Shieldwolf, Mantic, AoW and all the other smaller companies were hitching their carts to. X-Wing fething dwarfs AoS which is double what WHFB was. 9th Age is only a segment of the fractured WHFB playerbase - some stayed with WHFB 8th or other editions, some went to KoW, some went to AoS, some to T9A, some set their armies ablaze (NSFW language) and a significant number sold off and quit. There is of course crossover between those still playing Warhammer-descendants, but T9A doesn't have nearly the numbers that 8th had, and is therefore nowhere near the top 3 most popular games worldwide.

You should know by now, Angelos - I might be opinionated, but I do know what the feth I'm talking about.

BTW, no disrespect to T9A or the ETC tournament. I think what the T9A guys are doing is fantastic and I support their efforts wholeheartedly even though I play KoW instead.

@Azazelx
It wasn't snarky if it came that way, tbh we looked up x-wing and to our surprise not only are they really big but they are now even entering the mass army fantasy rank n' file area!
For a video that got posted 1 day ago and already has 12K views in 24 hours, I think it's mighty impressive how many followers FFG has.
Here's some free advertisement to the colleague ;-)


They are coming out with a generic starter set "humans vs skeletons" and I am pretty confident more will follow to build on. This is happening early 2017 according to them. Very interesting :-D

Yep, it's being discussed here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/698624.page

Looks interesting. I'll wait and see what the price is like. A few here dislike the models, but I don't mind them at all. I could find a use for both factions' models, even if I never play the FFG game...

 Azazelx wrote:
Yep, it's being discussed here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/698624.page

ninja'd... (!) :-/

 Azazelx wrote:

Looks interesting. I'll wait and see what the price is like. A few here dislike the models, but I don't mind them at all. I could find a use for both factions' models, even if I never play the FFG game...

On the link they provided it's 99$ for the set.

Well... what price I can get it for. Between US>UK>AU currency fluctuations, local markup if I go that way or international postage if I don't, I won't know the actual price (for me) until it's out and available...

@Azazelx
Argument... valid! Hopefully it will be priced very competitively in order not to penalize anyone out of the US! :-)

Now that the ETC has finished in Athens, we would like to announce our next (smaller) KS project: The Forest Goblin Army



In an effort to augment faster the large range we need to support both our own game and T9A community, we have been working on a smaller Q3 project, now always pitching with a new hard plastic multi-part kit. We hope you will like what we have created and we would be honored to have your support once again! :-D

This is a small teaser of one of the things we have designed as a Stretch Goal, but we would be happy to fund the basic kit alone!



Thank you for reading,

The Shieldwolf Team.

forest goblins




you have my money come kickstarter time

Awesome, will definitely be backing this!

Is the plan for a single or dual kit? Spearmen/archers?

Noooo mah wallit!

Hmm... I'm not super into goblins, but I'll be wiling to check this out.

At the very least a pledge ought to net me a good amount of goblins for skirmish games, right?

How many do you imagine fitting in one box? 20? 30? 40?

I'm super interested to see what the reptilian toe belongs to as well though!

I'm also hopeful we'll get to see an Icecrusher sculpt soon!

Goblins aren't exactly uncharted territory to say the least, but forest themed ones should be a good niche to fill. And of course, hard plastic is a always a selling point.

I know people waited for GW to make plastic versions of the old metal forest goblins for decades (i know they eventually did spider riders and a the aracnaroc but never any basic infantry), so you should have a market ready.

That cropped photo looks like it could be squiggoth material.
Pretty neat if that's the case. You could get quite a lot of cross over sales to 40K players.

I will happily sit this one out. If the goblins looked a little more monstrous and less goofy, like the Minion or even Mantic gobbos, I might be in, but the tree bark sunglasses gobbo is not welcome in my collection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do wish you the best of luck and much success, though.

If there's one thing I've learned about goblins, it's that there are often Trolls or some other larger (hungry?) creature hanging out with them.

This has potential. What's the projected turnaround time looking to be?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Hmm... I'm not super into goblins, but I'll be wiling to check this out.
At the very least a pledge ought to net me a good amount of goblins for skirmish games, right?
How many do you imagine fitting in one box? 20? 30? 40?

Our Infantry is planned for 20 per box and our cavalry for 10 per box. For the Goblins due to their size it is currently being discussed/debated whether it will be 20 or 25 per box.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I'm super interested to see what the reptilian toe belongs to as well though!

It's a BIG thing... :-)

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

I'm also hopeful we'll get to see an Icecrusher sculpt soon!

Projected date is either September or October Update for the Icecrusher :-)

willb2064 wrote:
Awesome, will definitely be backing this!
Is the plan for a single or dual kit? Spearmen/archers?

This will follow our last succesful KS model, i.e. we fund the main kit and the more the project funds, the more stuff gets packed on the sprues. Yes, both spears and short bows are planned for. After which we move on to the other kits in HIPS we have planned for, i.e. their cavalry and if it reaches that high, warmachines/monsters.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I will happily sit this one out. If the goblins looked a little more monstrous and less goofy, like the Minion or even Mantic gobbos, I might be in, but the tree bark sunglasses gobbo is not welcome in my collection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do wish you the best of luck and much success, though.

Thank you, I know it's a genuine comment and I appreciate it. Who knows, maybe you won't be finding them so 'goofy' after all... :-)

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
If there's one thing I've learned about goblins, it's that there are often Trolls or some other larger (hungry?) creature hanging out with them.

:-)

 Azazelx wrote:
This has potential. What's the projected turnaround time looking to be?

It will launch 1st or 2nd week of September. Project will end in September regardless, so the sooner we launch this, the more days available. :-)

 Gallahad wrote:
While my personal preference would be for a minotaurs mini ks, I think the most likely, (and my official guess) is Goblins.

Ah, sweet victory!

I am not a big goblin fan, but I'll see what I can do to support this. I like the bark mask on the little guy. I'm going to guess that the toe shown is for a big triceratops type dinosaur.

So cavalry will definitely be a thing.

Probably safe to assume in resin, or are you going to try and go all out in plastic?

Not that we know what it is...

My personal preference for cavalry is wolves over spiders, but there has been a precedent set for both. Maybe something new?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
So cavalry will definitely be a thing.

Probably safe to assume in resin, or are you going to try and go all out in plastic?

Negative, when all additions to the main infantry sprue have been done, then it's cavalry in HIPS. And if that happens, then it's HIPS again for warmachine/monster.
After which, another infantry kit.

The nice thing about Goblins is you need... well, gobs of them for regiment type games. So I hope we can at least get spears and bows out of the box, and some fun accessories. Cavalry on top of that would be very nice, though I think it'd be hard to decide whether to go wolves, spiders, or something else. Maybe some sort of gazelle type thing, or badgers or the like?

Regardless, I like that concept, though I can see the argument for having some heads that are less goofy and some that are more so.

This looks promising, I'll check out the Kickstarter once it's live. I can always use more Goblins!

A couple of questions, which are a little silly perhaps because I think I know the answers.

1: What scale are they? Are they going to be more like the pretty bulky GW gobbos, or a little smaller and skinnier?
2: Are they all going to have the jungle/voodoo theme going on with the bark masked fellow there?
3: Are the goblins going to be fairly lightly detailed? I guess another way of asking that is "Is the goblin shown the norm for the rank and file in terms of business, or is he a special one and the rest are more bare?"


I ask because I would prefer smaller/scrawnier gobbos than GW, with less little fiddly bits to detail paint. The ideal gobbo would be scaled at nearly 25mm and be easy to airbrush the skin and just have to do a handful of little details on, on the expectation that I would need like 200 for an army, just for the infantry.

All in all, even if I don't need the gobbos I will be looking for fun things to add just to help out!

Good to hear there's a chance for plastic cavalry. Will be interesting to see what it is.

Another question- for those of us who are more prone to skirmish games, any chance of getting round bases as opposed to square ones?

I know we can do skirmish stuff with square bases, but it never hurts to ask.

 greenskin lynn wrote:
forest goblins




you have my money come kickstarter time

And my axe.


Seriously though, you have no idea how much I want proper Forest Gobbos - I spent ages on eBay hunting down enough Arachnarok crew models to make my Mordheim warband. With these I can make a good size Dragon Rampant warband as well

One wee smidge of feedback on that image though - I hope it's still slightly WiP, as I prefer feathers and other such details to have the texture already defined rather than having to try painting the strands by hand.

 Wehrkind wrote:
A couple of questions, which are a little silly perhaps because I think I know the answers.

1: What scale are they? Are they going to be more like the pretty bulky GW gobbos, or a little smaller and skinnier?
2: Are they all going to have the jungle/voodoo theme going on with the bark masked fellow there?
3: Are the goblins going to be fairly lightly detailed? I guess another way of asking that is "Is the goblin shown the norm for the rank and file in terms of business, or is he a special one and the rest are more bare?"


I ask because I would prefer smaller/scrawnier gobbos than GW, with less little fiddly bits to detail paint. The ideal gobbo would be scaled at nearly 25mm and be easy to airbrush the skin and just have to do a handful of little details on, on the expectation that I would need like 200 for an army, just for the infantry.

All in all, even if I don't need the gobbos I will be looking for fun things to add just to help out!

For the record, newer GW goblins are much titchier than the gigantor mutants used in the old plastic infantry/wolf rider kits - the post BFSP Night Goblin and Forest Goblin plastics are pretty much the scale you're asking for and which I prefer as well, so hopefully they come close to that.

I can't agree on the detail front, however, Forest Goblins really need to have a few feathers, bones etc dangling off them, even the rank & file, it's the main way you can tell them apart from common goblins who just forgot to put their jackets on before going out


As for the mounts - I will vote Spiders all day, every day. The GW models are actually a pretty poor example of a cool concept, and while wolf models are pretty commonplace, finding good spider miniatures, especially in plastic is pretty difficult. I'd love a box of plastic spider-cavalry with actual separate legs that use socket joints so you could pose them. EDIT: I could *maybe* be persuaded to accept millipedes or some other similar creepy-crawly, but for the love of jeebus don't do something like deer, they're Goblins not pansy Elves

 Wehrkind wrote:
A couple of questions, which are a little silly perhaps because I think I know the answers.
1: What scale are they? Are they going to be more like the pretty bulky GW gobbos, or a little smaller and skinnier?

They stand on 20mm square bases and will be slightly bulkier than the more recent Citadel Miniatures goblins. These are warrior goblins!

 Wehrkind wrote:
2: Are they all going to have the jungle/voodoo theme going on with the bark masked fellow there?

They will have the primitive/forest/jungle theme. Not all of them wear the bark masks.

 Wehrkind wrote:
3: Are the goblins going to be fairly lightly detailed? I guess another way of asking that is "Is the goblin shown the norm for the rank and file in terms of business, or is he a special one and the rest are more bare?"

I ask because I would prefer smaller/scrawnier gobbos than GW, with less little fiddly bits to detail paint. The ideal gobbo would be scaled at nearly 25mm and be easy to airbrush the skin and just have to do a handful of little details on, on the expectation that I would need like 200 for an army, just for the infantry.

We comprehend the need to keep it simple, but can't be too simple. The amount of detail shown above is going to be the norm for all of them.

 Wehrkind wrote:

All in all, even if I don't need the gobbos I will be looking for fun things to add just to help out!

That's highly appreciated and we will try our best to earn your pledge then by perhaps an interesting add-on or something like that! :-)

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Another question- for those of us who are more prone to skirmish games, any chance of getting round bases as opposed to square ones?
I know we can do skirmish stuff with square bases, but it never hurts to ask.

It doesn't hurt to ask, but our game uses only square bases I'm afraid.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 greenskin lynn wrote:
forest goblins

you have my money come kickstarter time

And my axe.

Seriously though, you have no idea how much I want proper Forest Gobbos - I spent ages on eBay hunting down enough Arachnarok crew models to make my Mordheim warband. With these I can make a good size Dragon Rampant warband as well

One wee smidge of feedback on that image though - I hope it's still slightly WiP, as I prefer feathers and other such details to have the texture already defined rather than having to try painting the strands by hand.

At that scale overdoing it with the detail will probably do more harm than good. The goblins will still have ample detail to make sure we deliver a truly beautiful product that dominates the said niche market for many many years to come :-) We still have to make our own money back once put in retail after all...

 Yodhrin wrote:

For the record, newer GW goblins are much titchier than the gigantor mutants used in the old plastic infantry/wolf rider kits - the post BFSP Night Goblin and Forest Goblin plastics are pretty much the scale you're asking for and which I prefer as well, so hopefully they come close to that.

I can't agree on the detail front, however, Forest Goblins really need to have a few feathers, bones etc dangling off them, even the rank & file, it's the main way you can tell them apart from common goblins who just forgot to put their jackets on before going out

If you color the feathers in some lively colors (e.g. orange, pink etc) compared to the green skin and combined with the leather clothing, I trust it should be a very distinguishable force on the table :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 Wehrkind wrote:
A couple of questions, which are a little silly perhaps because I think I know the answers.
1: What scale are they? Are they going to be more like the pretty bulky GW gobbos, or a little smaller and skinnier?

They stand on 20mm square bases and will be slightly bulkier than the more recent Citadel Miniatures goblins. These are warrior goblins!

Could you make a size comparison picture? Preferably alongside different generations of GW goblins (which has been drastically different in mass and size during the years).

If you only have the goblins in digital render form at the moment, perhaps a comparison picture with a goblin and one of your plastic mountain orcs (I believe those are sculpted digitally as well right?)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
If you color the feathers in some lively colors (e.g. orange, pink etc) compared to the green skin and combined with the leather clothing, I trust it should be a very distinguishable force on the table :-)

And don't forget the opportunity to add tribal tattoos and/or warpaint during the painting stage

@Zywus
Negative, the Orcs (both Valley and Mountain) have been suclpted traditionally.
I'll see if we can get a comparison pic with a Shieldmaiden next to it if that helps any :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Zywus
Negative, the Orcs (both Valley and Mountain) have been suclpted traditionally.
I'll see if we can get a comparison pic with a Shieldmaiden next to it if that helps any :-)

Ah I see.
Comparison with a shield-maiden would be nice. Although since we haven't seen the maidens in physical form yet, it still don't really give us a perfect feel for the size of the goblins (although a fairly good one).

Perhaps you could 3D print out a example of a goblin just for size comparison to show next to some various GW goblins through the ages (and other manufacturers of goblins for that matter, like Mantic or Red-box games)? (Put in a clear annotation in the picture that the model is just to show it's size and not sculpting quality or manufacturing technique)

I feel that the importance of proper size-comparisons cannot be underestimated in these kind of campaigns.

People are much more prone to back if they are sure of how the models will fit in with their existing collection. There is always loads of requests for these kind of pictures but companies tend to be surprisingly averse to providing them, So if you can get one of these comparison pics ready before the campaign start, I think you'll have a good edge there already.

Ah I can miss this one as the Goblin shown does nothing for me. Good luck with it though!!

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
This has potential. What's the projected turnaround time looking to be?

It will launch 1st or 2nd week of September. Project will end in September regardless, so the sooner we launch this, the more days available. :-)

I mean the projected delivery date!

That would be Summer 2017. As you know tooling HIPS takes its time. After which, it lasts...forever! :-D

I think he looks great! Will probably back this but I would like a size comparison with some other goblins. Also I agree with the comment on feathers with pre-sculpted detail please! Much easier to wash.

This is great news (Forest Goblins) To make mine currently, I need to buy specific Grot 40K legs, source spider riders separate to if I can spiders (I have about 40 spiders spare now). Carve the torsos on both, fit and then putty loin cloths, belts, bellies, armor plates and furs... etc

In one swoop, my life making a decent force just got very easy. Cheers!

You can see an example of my project (what a bunch of these Forest Goblin infantry would potentially fulfill) in a celebration post about this announcement

I'll be keeping an eye on this. Hoping for beetle riders (everyone does spiders

I say go one step further and have goblin shock troops in heavy beetle armor.

I love beetle inspired armor!

Which in turn makes me want to go read Guyver fight ZX-Tole, but that's getting off topic (if not one of the coolest beetle inspired kaiju designs)

Goblins in heavy beetle armor would be amazing. So would goblin beetle riders.

This was one of my favorite Rackham figures.



And he never got any friends just like him- ever! And no, I'm not counting the Scarabs for the Daikinee because they were just pointy ears in beetle themed armor, and nobody cares about pointy ears!

Don't you want him to have some friends Shieldwolf?

Beetle riders (preferably with spider riders as well) would see this one edging from a "probably no" to a "probably yes" for me! I never even realised I wanted beetle riders before...

Soldier Ant riders instead of spiders might be pretty cool, actually.

Hornet riders for aerial cavalry?

Beetle armor would be brilliant; great suggestion. Man, thinking now that could answer a couple of conversion ideas of mine presently. I'd vote for this to be consider for the range too!

So... about those comparison pics?

If you don't have any when the campaign starts, you'll get approximately five thousand requests for such then anyway, so you might as well get ahead of that.

 Zywus wrote:
So... about those comparison pics?

If you don't have any when the campaign starts, you'll get approximately five thousand requests for such then anyway, so you might as well get ahead of that.

That's true. Scale is 28mm heroic, goblins infantry comes on 20mm square bases but some people will probably not suffice to that. We will therefore have some type of comparison picture when time comes to make this even clearer, if we get it sooner we'll post it here also, but for the time being a couple of people needed for that are on summer vacation. Why heck it's a Sunday here in Greece too, guess they know better! :-p

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 Zywus wrote:
So... about those comparison pics?

If you don't have any when the campaign starts, you'll get approximately five thousand requests for such then anyway, so you might as well get ahead of that.

That's true. Scale is 28mm heroic, goblins infantry comes on 20mm square bases but some people will probably not suffice to that. We will therefore have some type of comparison picture when time comes to make this even clearer, if we get it sooner we'll post it here also, but for the time being a couple of people needed for that are on summer vacation. Why heck it's a Sunday here in Greece too, guess they know better! :-p

Yea, "28mm heroic" has been interpreted in so many different ways by various manufacturers it tells us almost nothing by tself.

Good to see you'll get some pics in order before the campaign. That'll save you a lot of headache.

@Zywus
Here's the best we could do for what you asked :-)




Also, this month's update is up for anyone following our previous project

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1666251

That's a pretty good comparison pic. Pictures of real models is of course preferable, but it's hardly anything that we can demand when the goblins aren't in production yet.

The mammoth casts look awesome BTW. So crisp and detailed.
I kinda regret not getting one. I forsee that one being a top seller for you in the future.

I actually think the comparisons pic works well especially due to the stance's being upright rather, I did pledge for mammoths so I guess it's time to stand by the door again then look great by the way and thanks for the pic.

P.s. Looking at the goblins I will definitely be a backer

Goblins aren't the only creatures lurking in the dense forests to the south of our world... ;-)

Oh... I think I might like that one - a lot!

I'm definitely interested to see what the silhouette reveals! Always up for a big (I assume resin?) scaly monster

Not sure why but it reminds me of the contours of an old school Bulette.

I would be okay with this.

Based on the goblin's size, I'm guessing a 50x100mm base for it?

Maybe Forest Goblins can ride on Aoshiras while they're at it... P

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Based on the goblin's size, I'm guessing a 50x100mm base for it?

There are two versions, one comes on 100mmx100mm and the other 150mmx100mm.

Those are nice sized bases!

Look forward to see what goes on them!

Do you guys envision these goblins to be a single (melee) kit, or will it be like the Shieldmaidens and offer up ranged parts as well?

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Not sure why but it reminds me of the contours of an old school Bulette.

I would be okay with this.

Old School Bulette?!?

You know I'd be down for that!

Love that thing!



IIRC, they loved to eat halflings, but hate the taste of elves?

This here is my favorite pic of one:



Spoiler!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Those are nice sized bases!
Look forward to see what goes on them!

I'd even wager you that you'll end up being surprised... :-)

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Do you guys envision these goblins to be a single (melee) kit, or will it be like the Shieldmaidens and offer up ranged parts as well?

The latter; the Forest Goblin Kickstarter will follow the last succesful model we had for the Shieldmaidens meaning the more stuff gets unlocked the more goodies get packed on the sprues.
Should this be succesful again, I think we'll establish it as a permanent trend :-)

Oh yeah! Forest gobbos! I got your orcs kit and loved it.

Make it happen for next Salute (please) and I will be there with gold coins for you!

Promising stuff!

@Navarro
Making it available in time for Salute is going to be *very* hard. We would really like to make it obviously, a venue (let alone a big one like Salute) allows companies to offer some great deals and show off new goodies to a large number of people but it seems unlikely. Therefore, we are planning to use the power of crowdfunding to counter that instead by offering an awesome deal for this army and make the most of it! :-)
We have planned the project in a way to offer such a good a value for money that it's going to be very pleasing from just a couple of boxes to literally a bucketload!

This coming week we finish shipping wave-1 and announcing the date and time of launch! :-D

More stuff from our nordic girls :-)

Painted version of the Army Banner Bearer (most pledges got this as a freebie)







And Work in Progress from the Shieldmaiden Chieftess





Next we reveal... Goblins!

The banner bearer is a total miss for me, unfortunately.

OTOH, the chieftess pose, detail and expression? All stellar, love it. I'd love her even more with other kind of armor, but that ship sailed.

The KS launches on Tuesday September 13th, time of launch to be announced on Monday 12th.
In the meanwhile all this experience we are accumulating on plastic tooling gets implemented in each new kit, here's how ball-point joints will allow large variability even if using the same pieces (and we'll try to get as much goodies as possible on the sprues once again!)




Thanks for reading.

One last teaser before the final announcement with the exact time of launch :-)

Spider head versions

Are those helmets? if so I think I may have to dive on this despite my long standing agreement to not buy more from a company that I am still waiting on product from.

Looking good so far.

I like the Goblin but can't help but think the Spearhead is a bit too Heroic for my tastes.

Will smaller Spearheads be available?

Got My Mammoths today - they look ace

thanks and well done!

@ingtaer
Glad you like them! We have contacted Renedra to send us a picture of how the manufacturing progress is proceeding, HIPS tooling takes time and there's not much else we can do about it :-)
@StygianBeach
I'm afraid not. Most people want these to be compatible with products from another range plus this scale is the one we use for our range anyway, so I can be straightforward in telling you that smaller weapon sizes will not be available. If you need smaller tips, I'm afraid that's going to call for conversions/cutting from your part :-)
@Mr Morden
Thank you!

Also, time of launch as seen below, suitable for some, less suitable for others, we try doing our best "-)
Main target is the funding of the infantry's plastic kit, all other goodies are candy on top! :-D

Yaaaaaas, spiders. Hopefully the campaign will run to the end of the month as chipping in before then would be annoying.

It would be a bad move to have the campaign end before the end of the months considering most people receive their paycheck then.

 Zywus wrote:
It would be a bad move to have the campaign end before the end of the months considering most people receive their paycheck then.

We have taken that under consideration. Even if the CC payment connected to the KS account isn't covered, the crowdfunding platform still allows for 7 days to cover the amount pledged for. So no worries on that argument.
The project will last some 15 days... :-)

Ready to rock and roll with this, mind you I will be at work so might have to take a "cough toilet break cough"

Also got my KS battle born mammoth head yesterday and it looks amazing as did the complete mammoth of course, however it was surprising how cool it actually looks I wish I had got two know though

Not backed a 'Shieldwolf' kickstarter previously but looking like I may go in for this one.

Is it likely or not that other Sheildwolf armies will be available as add-ons?

@CBRFigs
We are looking forward to having you, hope you'll like what we have prepared!

The only other army available is going to be the Orcs just to help with the funding, we don't connect them but fits with T9A aesthetics so seems some people will welcome it.
If that doesn't suffice and taking into consideration the project is being cofunded, then the plastic Forest Goblin Army maybe aren't meant to be... We feel very positive that their time has come though! :-D


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Time has finally come to change the signature, lol... hopefully I'll remember to do so swiftly enough!


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Yep, it is live! :-)
Thank you for your support! :-D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-forest-goblins/description

Kickstarter looks exciting. I am tempted by Early Bird pledge but would like an opportunity to pledge for all the available plastics - orcs, new goblins, shield maidens and any new HIPS beasties.

I'm so easily led..

@feugan
Thank you. Commencing with a HIPS beasty would have sky-rocketed the funding target and killed off the campaign at the very start. We have decided to follow the advice we received from our KS-2 and take it one step at a time, momentum is what's going to attract more backers and allow for something BIG in HIPS to happen. :-)
@Orlando
Appreciate the faith and support :-D

MMMMM that Forest Brutgoth

Bring on the bacon!

Backed! Hope we can get to the SG to unlock the short bows

100 gobbos 100 bucks, why not. And free shipping, like Kickstarters from olden times!

@Ritides
Update #1 is all about the Brutgoth (since it's the, er, special guest in the house!) and we think you are going to find it very interesting. Since this is Dakka and people here are usually more familiar with the hobby/details than others, it might please you to know that Olivier Nkwetti has been commissioned for this. It's a concept we really loved and spared no expense, we have been surprised that no-one had ever created anything else like it for the Goblins (and Orcs for that matter), since it only makes perfect sense to me that little guys would use a BIG thing in battle... well, bigger guys (the Orcs) would bring something bigger as well! "-)
@willb2064
Thank you! Yes, we do too, it's the reason we revealed and pushed forward this SG so people know what to expect. I think you can tell what the next sprue upgrade will be too...
@ArtIsGreat
We tried being as competitive as possible by keeping logistics in place, we think all pledge levels offer really great value for money. A win-win situation, just like crowdfunding is meant to be in my opinion :-D

Thank you all for your support, it means a lot to me and my Team! :-D

I missed that on the shipping, that's great! And just $5 on other levels. If we want add-ons only (like a Brutgoth ) do we just add $5 if selecting the lowest pledge level - so $65 + $5 = $70 for the Brutgoth alone?

@RiTides
I'm afraid that's a negative, for those at the $1 add-on level shipping will be calculated according to actual costs. The $50 level does stand at $5 for EU&USA ($8 for RoW) regardless of whether you add the beast or not, whilst everyone else doesn't have to worry about shipping as it's already included.

Those look cool, but given that I'm still waiting on my stuff from the last KS I'm going to have to pass.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Those look cool, but given that I'm still waiting on my stuff from the last KS I'm going to have to pass.

Glad you like them. :-)
We have already been messaged from other people that follow your point of view. We naturally respect that, but if you allow me I'd like to point out that communication and progress of the Shieldmaiden project (in our opinion) has been constant and partial delivery (wave-1 has fully shipped) has already been made with Shieldwolf covering all P&P costs in advance.

We too would like to have the plastics delivered to our HQ today if possible but HIPS tooling is what it is. We have contacted Renedra and they are going to send us a picture of how the tooling looks like (please don't expect anything too fancy at this stage!), other than that there's nothing else we can do about it.
Also, we have admitted that there might be a very slight delay but delivery isn't due until December this year as stated in the campaign, so we trust it all falls under "acceptable" as we cherish our reputation a lot.

As I said however, point of view is certainly respected, hopefully we will have changed your mind before the project ends :-D

I did't realize at first they come with ball and socket arms.
Pretty neat design to have those bands/straps around the shoulders to obscure the join where the ball of the arm goes into the socket of the torso. Although can't really see what their function is in-universe?

They're a bit too chunky for my taste but they do hold up well to any of the other plastic gobbo offerings on the market so I really hope you're successfull.

I like them but I don't need them urgently and I would prefer to wait and see the quality of the plastic shield maidens from the last KS - which I backed.

I think I will wait this one out until retail.

plessiez wrote:
I like them but I don't need them urgently and I would prefer to wait and see the quality of the plastic shield maidens from the last KS - which I backed.

I think I will wait this one out until retail.

I respect your stance and again thank you for your support on the Shieldmaiden KS. I'd only like to point out that these won't hit retail ever if the project doesn't fund, we genuinely need the additional funds to make this happen. We have already invested in this and like we said prior to the launch, this is a "make-it-or-break-it", we don't use crowdfunding just to bulk sales, we truly need the trust and funds in order to create and bring to life. :-)

@Zywus
The ball-pointed versions were suggested by the sculptor, we trust in his expertise and agreed. It's not exactly ball-pointed but we call it like that, you'll see what I mean.
This was meant to be explained in Update #2 but I might as well place a picture here to explain myself better :-)

The illustrated render below was an early concept which we changed. We are not in favor of having people greenstuffing all the joints of their miniatures in order to conceal and make them look good, let alone a horde of goblins!



One cannot dream of one day producing the best plastics worldwide if we don't constantly improve. We gather the know-how as time goes by and we are eager to implement it in actual production. :-)

I'm in a similar boat re: waiting for the Shieldmaidens. I don't own any of your kit yet, so already took a bit of a gamble on that project. Plus, like many others, I'm finding the 14-day timescale to be tricksy. I'm already pledging for Hasslefree this month, and probably Gods War too.

We are backing this project at the 'Campaign Army' level, as I have said above I haven't previously backed a Sheildwolf KS (unfortunately).

One of the first things I did after backing was to ask whether we would be able to add to our pledge after the kickstarter funding period closed in the post-funding survey (we like most people have other kickstarters we are backing, and of course there is that little horrible thing called 'Real Life' that eats away at our funds ). Anyway glad to say the answer was 'Yes'.

I will give you guys credit that you have been communicating well about the stages of the shieldmaiden project. The problem is, how much I will actually like the figures I'm getting is difficult to be certain of until I see the final product in-person. You would probably get a lot more enthusiasm for the goblins if people like me weren't wanting to judge their prior purchases before paying more money into an unknown.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

Also, we have admitted that there might be a very slight delay but delivery isn't due until December this year as stated in the campaign, so we trust it all falls under "acceptable" as we cherish our reputation a lot.

Should we take that as March 2017 or June 2017? I might sound snarky here, but I'm actually quite deadpan/serious.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

Also, we have admitted that there might be a very slight delay but delivery isn't due until December this year as stated in the campaign, so we trust it all falls under "acceptable" as we cherish our reputation a lot.

Should we take that as March 2017 or June 2017? I might sound snarky here, but I'm actually quite deadpan/serious.

On the contrary not snarky at all, being blunt and honest works out just great, we are being 100% transparent and chose not to withhold the information for after the Forest Goblin KS ended.
Resin production, QC and packaging will have finished by mid/late November, that's on us and we are on perfect schedule. The very moment we receive the test proofs from Renedra (before giving the green light) we will weigh the parcels and invoice the P&P costs as we said during the Shieldmaiden KS.
Once we receive the plastics we will immediately pack and (using the spreadsheets that will have already been prepared and checked) commence shipping wave-2.
I talked with Renedra last week, they said we are to expect them late January (instead of mid/lateNovember as planned). Therefore a realistic deadline with what I'm aware of today (and I'm aware of the term "realistic") is mid/late February 2017 to ship the parcels. Shipping everything must complete within 6 working days (an average of 90 parcels per day).

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@RiTides
I'm afraid that's a negative, for those at the $1 add-on level shipping will be calculated according to actual costs. The $50 level does stand at $5 for EU&USA ($8 for RoW) regardless of whether you add the beast or not, whilst everyone else doesn't have to worry about shipping as it's already included.

Could you reconsider on this with whoever is needed to decide the policy? What I hear you saying is if I pledge $70 - $85 (Brutgoth possibly with Howdah) you're going to charge me shipping later and at a higher rate than someone who pays $50, even if they decide to get that same model added onto their pledge.

This would be a deal breaker for me... another option you could do is to let folks select the $50 pledge but use it towards the Brutgoth?

If the answer is "no", I can just stay at $1 and get it later... Just wanted to give you the chance to make a common sense decision here. I don't think what you posted is clear on the page so even if that is your policy, you should make it clearer... But ideally if someone spends at least $50 at the higher add-on price, they should qualify for the same shipping rate as the $50 pledge.

@RiTides
I hear you, let me get back to you on this. :-)

Okay great, thanks for considering ^_^

And oh my goodness, the render!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-forest-goblins/posts/1681059





Click on the pics above to see big versions, they're really impressive

I also updated the OP with a link to the Kickstarter and some pics!

If I had the spare cash right now, I'd jump in even though I've no use for the kits. I like the company, the way it does business, the way it handles public engagement, and I want to see them do well. I'll see if I can scrounge together some pennies to commit before the KS is up....

I want a Brutgoth and a few gobbos, but access to all the shiny gold stretch goals as they come.

Will the Garrison Army be my best bet, or will there perhaps be a cheaper alternative? I have no need for hundreds of little guys, but a few dozen? Sure!

I've just noticed that on the KS page there's the "Australia-friendly shipping" logo, as well as the one for US and Canada. This usually means that KS rewards are going to be sent to a local distributor who will then send out the parcels - which in turn means that backers will not be hit for any additional charges, taxes or import duty. Hence the "friendly" part.

Is that the case here?

(And you probably would want to add the answer to your FAQ on the page).

I've backed the goblins and the shield maidens KS happily, to be honest I understand people's reservations on delays and quality (believe me) but so far shield wolf miniatures have been pretty much on the ball.

Updates and communication has been there and they have sent out part of the pledges that were already produced, the delay is due to to a third party (which lets be honest is common with KS) and is not that bad of delay couple to three months.

Renders so far have looked pretty good and nothing to concern me so far, as for resin casting I am more than happy with my mammoths really impressed with the detail and quality of the casts.

I mean you want to be annoyed about delays try over 2 years and 1 half year, that is two I have backed and they are both in house production so fully there own making.

@Azazelx
We'll be posting something to make this clearer should that be the case :-)
@lone dirty dog
We appreciate your trust and posting this, I must point out however that the delay is not due to the 3rd party (Renedra in this case), that is our doing 100% as Angelos was not pleased with the initial 3d prints for the 3ups and had them reprinted. Please note that he was aware of the eventual delay that might cause and it did cost more (both money,time and effort-wise) but he means (and so do the rest of us!) to deliver a quality product that will shine the abilities of the company due to the support we so generously received. This was also posted on the August update https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/posts/1666251 where at the time the people at Renedra where working out whether they could speed up the production for us to meet the deadline. I'm confident they tried their best but informed us last week that it couldn't be done in the end. Therefore the responsibility lies in us for having delayed the delivery of the 3ups to them. We would like to be clear on that and not shift blame where there is none, apologies if we wrote something/somewhere that got misinterperetd.
We will be posting all this in an update on the Shieldmaiden KS, before the Forest Goblin project ends (and I don't mean like, 30' before!)
@Highlord
We will be posting a FAQ in the nxt couple of days addressing this concerns.
@Ketara
Humbled by your post. Really. :-D
@RiTides
We have not overlooked what you asked for, we have made contact with the postal service that will undertake the shipping of this project and awaiting their answer. As soon as we know, we'll get straight back to you!

I am happy to wait a couple of months to get better quality Shieldmaidens.

Yeah much rather have a wait with good communication and better minis, than not so good, sooner.
Does your Ozzie friendly shipping extended to us down at the far reaches of the globe? (we always get left out).

Shieldwolf, thanks. I've seen others posting in the comments about pledging for one or even several Brutgoths. It just seems odd that adding two to a $50 pledge results in $5 shipping, but pledging for three directly (and so pledging for even more $) means shipping is higher and unknown.

Ideally, you should clarify it soon if possible since others are pledging just for add-ons... it seems like the shipping should just be based on total pledge value, but if you want to just set it at a flat rate for that level that works, too. Right now I don't think it's clear either way, though.

Looking forward to today's update with more renders, woot

I had my Mammoth and Howdah arrive today from the Shieldmaiden kickstarter. I'd expected to get a crew with it as well, but looking over at the kickstarter updates, those girls will come in the next wave.



Random Infinity model for scale.
I must say - this is a pretty big, solid, imposing hunk of resin. Plenty of detail though, and looks like it'll be a gorgeous model in the end.

Agreed - my two look great.

Not interested in goblins but tempted to get one of these new beasties as a ride for the ladies.

Do we know comparative size for it compared to the Mammoth?

@Mr Morden
We have asked the sculptor to give us measurements for both versions, as soon as we have them it's going up!
@RiTides @highlord
We are also working on calculating how to deal with those who wish to support us by acquiring the beast, we are currently directed and working on a "Brutgoth-only" pledge, have to see how shipping and Silver/Gold pledge levels will work for this pledge.
@Micky
Thank you!
@ingtaer
Free shiiping applies to Australia also, you only get penalized in the silver pledge level (opposed to EU and USA)
@theWaspinator
That's a valid argument, no contest. It is all about faith I guess.