Well, I found the exact tutorial I was looking for (just replace Skeleton Horde with the red, and the red with yellow):
godardc wrote: If you don't have time to paint, or don't want to paint, don't play 40k. As simple as that.
Umm... no it's not.
godardc wrote: Why playing one of the few hobbies you need time to glue and paint your models, which is probably the most important part of the hobby...
As has been said, it's the most important part of the hobby to you. You are not everyone.
godardc wrote: 40k isn't a game but a Hobby, and is explicitly refered as such by GW.
How's that Kool Aid taste?
godardc wrote: Most of us spend more time building and painting than actually gaming. It's not a claim, but a fact.
That which is presented without evidence...
godardc wrote: And for me the most important part is the background, reading the fluff.
None of which requires gluing and painting.
godardc wrote: It is in the other hand, part of the 40k Hobby, whether you like it or not.
What's the "40k hobby" you speak of? Is that part of the miniature hobby, which encompasses all kinds of play styles and preferences, none of which require painting?
Is getting into this debate again really necessary? The paints are out, some people are using them, some aren't, surely we can put a lid on it now and all go down the pub.
My third issue is that while some of the contrasts are very nice (some of the reds, purples, yellows, browns/leathers) many of the others are pretty awful in their coverage and final affect. The metals are dire.
My third issue is that while some of the contrasts are very nice (some of the reds, purples, yellows, browns/leathers) many of the others are pretty awful in their coverage and final affect. The metals are dire.
Yes I did and I should clarify. The two contrast paints that I have seen frequently used for "metal" blades/axes etc and parts of weapons like bolters, Basilicanum Grey and Black Templar are pretty poor to my eyes at creating the metal effects compared to something like PP Pig Iron (even without a wash). There are currently no metallic contrast paints that I am aware of.
either use the Contrast paints over a metallic base (all the photos I've seen of this look very good) or use them over a grey base and drybrush with silver (not seen or tried this yet, but I've done similar in the past over ordinary paint / washes and it's worked fine. Gives a better dull metal effect than the satin sheen of Contrast over metallic.
Yes I did and I should clarify. The two contrast paints that I have seen frequently used for "metal" blades/axes etc and parts of weapons like bolters, Basilicanum Grey and Black Templar are pretty poor to my eyes at creating the metal effects compared to something like PP Pig Iron (even without a wash). There are currently no metallic contrast paints that I am aware of.
Because their not trying to emulate metal effects and no one has claimed that they are in any way 'metallic'.
They are simply a black and grey paint.
And paint is a very generic term, calling contrast Paint is not misleading at all.
Can't help but feel that your really scrapping the barrel trying to find thing to complain about.
I won't be using Contrast for everything, but knocking out those projects that have been on the backburner a while? Absolutely.
This squad maybe took a couple of hours, but would have been 3 times longer if using the usual paint/wash/2 highlights I'd typically do for tabletop.
bullyboy wrote: I won't be using Contrast for everything, but knocking out those projects that have been on the backburner a while? Absolutely.
This is my plan. I have something of an obsession with amassing detachments of as many disparate factions as I can just for the fun from a hobby project perspective, but I inevitably wind up getting swamped. I think in certain contexts the contrast range will help me out there.
Albertorius wrote: I picked up four colors (mainly because the ravenous hordes apparently got there before, so...): black, orange, yellow and flesh, and a can of primer. And I've been experimenting a bit (Disclaimer: I only have a single, busted up brush from ages ago. Control is... not the best >_>:
First I painted a couple of Conan picts, which were primed a long time ago with Army Painter flesh and to which I overprimed a zenital light with Vallejo bone primer:
Spoiler:
I've only done the flesh of the second one, but I like it much better:
What colours did you use for this one's flesh?
That one was originally primed with Army Painter's flesh spray primer, and I did a zenital light with the new Contrast bone spray. After that it just have a layer of Contrast Gilliman Flesh.
This video is pretty good. He does a basic job with just the contrast paints, then adds on highlights on top to get it to a much higher level. I think it looks pretty good with just the contrast, though it still takes careful application.
Alpharius wrote: I'm thinking Contrast paint is going to be a godsend in getting those big boardgame pledges painted up - at least it will be for me!
Shadows of Brimstone enemies will be a lot easier to paint...
Same here. I'll use my paints wherever they may come in handy, but for the big, advertised purpose of Contrast paints I'll use them for models in the category "will look cooler painted, but don't value them enough to put real effort in".
PVC stuff like Song of Ice and Fire, maybe Star Wars Legion. Stormtroopers alone might be worth looking into the white paint.
The paints: Snakebite Leather and Wyldwood on basecoats of Fulgrim Pink, Emperor's Children and Yriel Yellow.
Really just a test of how some bright colors alter the look of the Contrast paints that go over them. I like the way the light pink works with both Snakebite Leather and Wyldwood.. The dark pink and yellow are pretty intense and have a pretty big effect on Snakebite Leather, peeking through quite a bit. I'll have some use for that, I think.
Got myself some finally and painted bloodletter in no time as far as I plan with contrast(weapon handle, eyes and the dots in skin with non-contrast). Makes painting large units of these breeze. Also worked on daemonette and pink horror.
Would have killed for these when I started and even now can def see myself using these as part of toolbox I have.
Corvus Black is fantastic...buuuuuuuut it doesn't really go over Grey Seer or Corax White very well. Apply it over a black or dark grey spray and you'll be fine though!
It feels kind of watered down from the outset, I've been testing it on a metal Nazgul for my brother and it's definitely something that could change up the way I paint black. It has a bit of transparency to it when watered down and makes for a nice tomb grey robe.
Corvus Black is fantastic...buuuuuuuut it doesn't really go over Grey Seer or Corax White very well. Apply it over a black or dark grey spray and you'll be fine though!
It feels kind of watered down from the outset, I've been testing it on a metal Nazgul for my brother and it's definitely something that could change up the way I paint black. It has a bit of transparency to it when watered down and makes for a nice tomb grey robe.
I was considering getting Corvus Black for my Gloomspite Gitz robes. As a Base paint I'm surprised it has trouble going over a light colored undercoat.
I was considering getting Corvus Black for my Gloomspite Gitz robes. As a Base paint I'm surprised it has trouble going over a light colored undercoat.
I thought at first it was a bad pot, but I had gotten 3 of them on Saturday. All 3 had the same thing happening despite very heavy shaking.
It's just a bit transparent, as mentioned, but if you apply it over Chaos Black spray or Mechanicus Standard Grey spray it looks great.
I find Abaddon Black to be rubbish also. Of all the colors, black is an odd one to get wrong.
Live update: 29 Plaguebearers undercoated and basecoated since lunch. I'll probably spend more time painting bases all careful not to hit the feet, than the minis themselves.
But but but that means GW have produced something different and good???
That can't happen.....what is this witch craft??
The community will never stand for this!
I think doing the same with Carroburg Crimson would have come out more like the red ink in the middle than the Army Painter one on the right, but yes, the effect with Contrast is much stronger.
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
Haven't used them, but they feel like the army painter sprays in terms of smoothness (I've used the grey spray), so I would say they're pretty similar.
Yodhrin wrote: Spotted this over on FB, which nicely illustrates that "it's just ink" and "it's just wash" aren't really valid characterizations
"I slapped 3 completely different things on top of a white model and they're completely different". I wonder what else could have happened?
More like: "I tested 3 things haters who not only never tried contrast, but never saw it in person claimed are totally identical to it, guess what". Fixed that for you. Hell, we had someone joking it's just 1$ craft paint thinned like 9:1 with water right here in this thread, this needs to be tested for laughs too
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
Well might be just my imagination but felt like the paint is coming with bigger force than what I'm used to. Literally pushed model away. Considering some blutack next time.
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
Well might be just my imagination but felt like the paint is coming with bigger force than what I'm used to. Literally pushed model away. Considering some blutack next time.
I can confirm this. The air pressure is much higher.
Shadenuat wrote: "I slapped 3 completely different things on top of a white model and they're completely different". I wonder what else could have happened?
If you'd missed Yod's point any harder you might have hurt yourself.
Albertorius wrote: I picked up four colors (mainly because the ravenous hordes apparently got there before, so...): black, orange, yellow and flesh, and a can of primer. And I've been experimenting a bit (Disclaimer: I only have a single, busted up brush from ages ago. Control is... not the best >_>:
First I painted a couple of Conan picts, which were primed a long time ago with Army Painter flesh and to which I overprimed a zenital light with Vallejo bone primer:
Spoiler:
I've only done the flesh of the second one, but I like it much better:
What colours did you use for this one's flesh?
That one was originally primed with Army Painter's flesh spray primer, and I did a zenital light with the new Contrast bone spray. After that it just have a layer of Contrast Gilliman Flesh.
Thank you. My Contrast order arrives tomorrow, and I'm wanting to use the stuff to knock out elements of various models. Masses of boardgame models with organic detail on them (hi, Conan!) and simple scenery projects will be some of the first stuff I try them out on.
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Alpharius wrote: I'm thinking Contrast paint is going to be a godsend in getting those big boardgame pledges painted up - at least it will be for me!
Shadows of Brimstone enemies will be a lot easier to paint...
I just assembled those silly-looking rockmen for just that purpose!
...of course, I'll be using contrast to speed up elements of the models, then doing some separate highlighting/shading/detail/etc as needed, rather than considering them to be a be-all, end-all approach, as so many of the overly-zealous critics here seem to think of it. It's going to simply be another bunch of tools in the kit.
bubber wrote: Odd query - what do they taste like?
I'm a habitual brush licker.
Also, has anyone tried using a hairdryer yet to speed up drying times? If 'yes', how did it go?
Ta.
Considering that the pain tis very thin and flows easily, esp if you use the proper new smoother primers; then I'd worry that a hairdrier might well push the paint around if held too close.
bubber wrote: Odd query - what do they taste like?
I'm a habitual brush licker.
Also, has anyone tried using a hairdryer yet to speed up drying times? If 'yes', how did it go?
Ta.
Not very nice, discovered that one pretty quickly
Haven’t tried myself, but one of the videos I watched the guy was constantly licking the brush after each color change and didn’t have a sour face at any time.
Thanks for the reply guys.
I'm hoping to enter a painting comp on Warhammer Day so will only be painting 1 model.
Maybe I should choose something huge like the Mumak?!?
bubber wrote: Odd query - what do they taste like?
I'm a habitual brush licker.
Also, has anyone tried using a hairdryer yet to speed up drying times? If 'yes', how did it go?
Ta.
Not very nice, discovered that one pretty quickly
Haven’t tried myself, but one of the videos I watched the guy was constantly licking the brush after each color change and didn’t have a sour face at any time.
Obviously didn't whack his brush into his mouth loaded with paint!
I got the talassar and ultramarines blue and tried them out last night. The Talassar blue on my hormigant and Ultramarine blue on an extra tactical marine.
Talassar blue is pretty terrific, makes a really nice sapphire blue carapace on the nids.
The ultramarine blue I'm less impressed with. It left the marine VERY dark, felt more like a crimson fists color than ultramarine. I'm going to try it again with a thinner application, but I don't think it's going to work out, as even the demo pictures I've seen of pros using it it turns out fairly dark.
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
Well might be just my imagination but felt like the paint is coming with bigger force than what I'm used to. Literally pushed model away. Considering some blutack next time.
Was just going to comment on this myself.
Paint arrived today including a Wraithbone spray can and the can has noticeably higher pressure then other cans, both GW and Vallejo.
Normally I just have my models standing upright on a newspaper to spray but the can was knocking them over even at half an arms length distance.
Definitely need to secure them or spray from above.
Building on previous tests, I tried to see how much an intense green and red would peek through Snakebite Leather.
My biggest issue with these paints, similar to washes, is what they do to large, even surfaces. Now of course you could go and try to control how much paint you put on, but that is boring and silly. Instead, paint spatters! Woohoo!.
The red is a little too red for leather for my liking, but even though close inspection reveals some green spots reasonable well, it blends in better and doesn't seem to discolor the brown too much. The best thing is, though, that the extra spots of color mitigate the brown pools to a degree. They're obviously still there, but have patches of different color to form a pattern with, which to me makes the model look a lot less dirty or stained than plain Contrast on plain basecoat. I think that's something I'll incorporate in other models that use Contrast for a quick paintjob, simply because drybrushing and stippling on other colors is quick and easy and goes well with the goal of speedy painting, but also improving quality quite a bit.
Spent most of the weekend futzing around with a few colors, and can personally attest that Black Templar is goddamn sorcery in a pot. What used to take me several repeat shade and drybrush layers is now reduced to an undercoat, base coat, paint grenade of BT and a light drybrush.
@Geifer: Am really appreciating your experiments, it is also great to see some ASOIAF miniatures on the site as well.
Contrast is definitely going to be the basis of my Freefolk miniatures with all the browns and Grey's, with added highlights and proper metallics where needed. It is just a case of reversing the painting technique that I have always used, starting with a dark undercoat and progressively getting lighter.
@Carnage 43, totally agree on Ultramarines blue, it just does not seem fit for the purpose of painting Ultramarines.
To those using the new Contrast Spray Cans. Anyone had any difficulties with them?
I'm aware weather conditions, such as temp and humidity can play havoc with sprays, so looking to see if I need to wait for 'just right' conditions or not before spraying.
Well might be just my imagination but felt like the paint is coming with bigger force than what I'm used to. Literally pushed model away. Considering some blutack next time.
Was just going to comment on this myself.
Paint arrived today including a Wraithbone spray can and the can has noticeably higher pressure then other cans, both GW and Vallejo.
Normally I just have my models standing upright on a newspaper to spray but the can was knocking them over even at half an arms length distance.
Definitely need to secure them or spray from above.
Yeah it really surprised. In the end opted to just hold models one by one as i only was priming 4 for testing. Wasn't sure was it spray bottle or me misremembering as these days i prime mostly with airbrush
bubber wrote: Odd query - what do they taste like?
I'm a habitual brush licker.
Also, has anyone tried using a hairdryer yet to speed up drying times? If 'yes', how did it go?
Ta.
Not very nice, discovered that one pretty quickly
Haven’t tried myself, but one of the videos I watched the guy was constantly licking the brush after each color change and didn’t have a sour face at any time.
Obviously didn't whack his brush into his mouth loaded with paint!
I was going to say, the brush should be washed before being inserted into mouth.. :p surely youre only using your lips to keep the brush point.
bubber wrote: Odd query - what do they taste like? I'm a habitual brush licker.
Also, has anyone tried using a hairdryer yet to speed up drying times? If 'yes', how did it go? Ta.
Not very nice, discovered that one pretty quickly
Haven’t tried myself, but one of the videos I watched the guy was constantly licking the brush after each color change and didn’t have a sour face at any time.
Obviously didn't whack his brush into his mouth loaded with paint!
I was going to say, the brush should be washed before being inserted into mouth.. :p surely youre only using your lips to keep the brush point.
For those wondering about the undercoat/primers, they certainly do make a significant difference.
I am painting up some gretchin -undercoated in Mech Grey primer.
And painting up some Blood Angels Scouts - undercoated in the new grey seer.
The difference is pretty stark, with the darker colors over the mech grey it can be very difficult to see the effect of the contrast and you don't get the many shade variations. With the lighter colors, for example skeleton horde, the effect almost doesn't happen at all, and the grey underneath shows through to the paint where you have this weird dirty brown grey. The lighter but more pigmented colors, such as talassar blue actually still worked ok over the Mech Grey and I got good variation of shades.
Everything works well over the grey seer spray, so as already mentioned by many, the undercoat really makes a big difference.
I got some Krylon satin paint that was a really close color to Wraithbone. It goes on thicker and a bit glossier, and the colors come out a tad bit darker. If you put one model with krylon next to one with Wraithbone, you’ll see the difference. But it IS minor.
Unfortunately the paints came before the primers so I don't have many things to test them on. I'm most interested in what can be done with the black and going over metals so I plan to do quite a few experiments to see what kind of effects I can get.
This primer on is a marine that I primed with Vallejo white about 5 years ago. I first dry brushed some grey knight steel, put on black templar contrast, then gave a coat of nuln oil.
Spoiler:
I thought this other one came out kind of interesting. It was sitting around on my paintshelf for several years with Vallejo model air Steel. I covered it with black templar contrast, and dry brushed on some grey knight steel. I just went back with Wraithbone base and other contrasts to test out some details
Spoiler:
For a 10 second job, aethermatic blue work pretty well on the sword.
When the primers show up, I'm gonna try to do a zenithal highlight with them (black -> mechanicum grey-> Greyseer), drybrush a bit of metal on it, and then put black templar on it.
Another interesting thing to note is I also got some of the clear air paints. The Sigismund Yellow Clear brushed on almost the same as Iyanden Yellow except it dried with a very glossy look
I tried out Black Templar over Leadbelcher as well as the new Iron Hands Steel and Iron Warriors base paints. IH steel and Leadbelcherive give a good highlight effect but can be blotchy on larger surfaces. The IW base being the darker of the three gives a more subtle highlight and metallic sheen but also seems to mask the blotchiness somewhat.
timetowaste85 wrote: I got some Krylon satin paint that was a really close color to Wraithbone. It goes on thicker and a bit glossier, and the colors come out a tad bit darker. If you put one model with krylon next to one with Wraithbone, you’ll see the difference. But it IS minor.
Its Krylon "Ivory" Satin, i'm guessing, and yeah... its been a 90% match in all regards for me, for 25% of the price. ;-)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @Geifer: Am really appreciating your experiments, it is also great to see some ASOIAF miniatures on the site as well.
Contrast is definitely going to be the basis of my Freefolk miniatures with all the browns and Grey's, with added highlights and proper metallics where needed. It is just a case of reversing the painting technique that I have always used, starting with a dark undercoat and progressively getting lighter.
@Carnage 43, totally agree on Ultramarines blue, it just does not seem fit for the purpose of painting Ultramarines.
Glad if I could help.
I'm lucky that I remembered that I had unpainted Free Folk. They are good models to test these paints on. Originally I planned to buy a green Contrast paint and test it on Bolt Action soldiers. Wartime material shortages notwithstanding, I would have been tempted to be conservative and try for uniformity. I feel a lot better about allowing myself free rein with Free Folk, since they're all civilians and nothing is industrially produced. Much better for going wild. And at the rate I'm going through these, I may well end up with a painted army to boot.
I'll be interested to see people post traditionally and Contrast painted models next to each other to see how well they are able to match the new paintjob to the old one. I'm hardly the best painter and I have a bit of trouble imagining that that is going to go all that well in a lot of cases. Would be good to see how it actually plays out.
Geifer wrote: I'll be interested to see people post traditionally and Contrast painted models next to each other to see how well they are able to match the new paintjob to the old one. I'm hardly the best painter and I have a bit of trouble imagining that that is going to go all that well in a lot of cases. Would be good to see how it actually plays out.
I have hard time imagining as well which is precisely why I use contrast for new project(s) rather than existing. Specifically daemons now. Later LOTR and then expand chaos side.
Geifer wrote: I'll be interested to see people post traditionally and Contrast painted models next to each other to see how well they are able to match the new paintjob to the old one. I'm hardly the best painter and I have a bit of trouble imagining that that is going to go all that well in a lot of cases. Would be good to see how it actually plays out.
I have hard time imagining as well which is precisely why I use contrast for new project(s) rather than existing. Specifically daemons now. Later LOTR and then expand chaos side.
Yup, I think the product is fantastic but there is zero chance I can match it to prior paint jobs after a bit of experimentation. This is for projects moving forward for me too. Also Daemons first and then likely nids, beastmen, savage orcs, etc
I used Pink Horror pink with a Crimson Carroburgh wash before. Then I tried the Volupous Pink contrast over Wraithbone. Almost identical, and 1/4 the time. Yeah...I know which one I’m using for basic horrors.
Horst wrote: Exactly. It's a godsend for new armies, but it certainly doesn't match any existing techniques.
I'm digging the result on my AdMech guys though, this took like an hour to do this
How about a breakdown on the colors used, especially the dark metallic.
THX
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Gerinako wrote: Is it me or does Corax White look better for some of them?
Blood Angel Red for example
Its just the difference between the base coats that makes them different. Corax is a bright, pure white, the Wraithbone is a light tan and Seer is a warm gray.
You are always going to get a purer version of the color over the Corax. Its interesting that the Wraithbone gives a brighter color in many of the lighter color examples.
I sprayed the whole thing Vallejo Grey Surface Primer, then painted the cloak with Iyanden Yellow contrast. Then I painted the pants with Snakebite Leather, and the metallic parts with Vallejo's Silver. I painted the parts I wanted dark metallic with Black Contrast, and left the parts I wanted lighter alone (like the kneepad and gun). The bright metallic parts are Vallejo Liquid Metal Copper (an alcohol based paint, but the shiniest metalic I've ever seen). The green is just Vallejo Transparent Green over Vallejo Silver, and the eyes are just Green Ink over Vallejo Grey Primer.
Chris521 wrote: Unfortunately the paints came before the primers so I don't have many things to test them on. I'm most interested in what can be done with the black and going over metals so I plan to do quite a few experiments to see what kind of effects I can get.
When the primers show up, I'm gonna try to do a zenithal highlight with them (black -> mechanicum grey-> Greyseer), drybrush a bit of metal on it, and then put black templar on it.
So the primer came today and I gave it a go.
EDIT: I could pick at it all night and still find tiny flaws, but I was really happy with how the black came out. It's nice and dark, but its got a slight metallic shine to it. About 80% of the model is contrast. I even used a bit of the Apothecary white on the face.
Spoiler:
Edit: I wrote this elsewhere but I figured I'd give my explaination.
So basically a very light metallic color with a handful of shadows.
I did a few highlights on some for the sharp black edges. Blue Horror for the black sections and silver for the metallic ( most notably the belt buckle and some of the backpack).
Interestingly I didn't have to highlight his under coat at his waist. The contrast flowed off that texture nicely. The legs also have very few highlights.
The gun is Blood angels red contrast with a Lugganath orange highlight, same with the eyes.
The face is Grey Seer with Apothecary White Contrast.
The shoulder pad is Grey seer with Ultramarine Contrast, Iyandan with a light layer of gold, and Ceramite white.
The little details on the right arm also included the red and yellow contrasts, as well as Warp Lightning and skeleton horde.
The pouches are Wyldwood with a skrag brown highlight
While the metallic arm did have the Black Templar on it, there are enough layers on it (including nuln oil) that it doesn't come across. The brass and gold bits do have some snakebite leather Contrast on them. That one is fantastic on metal.
So except for the pure metallic bits. The entire model is contrast with some edge highlighting.
I think my facorite thing about the contrast is how smooth it looks. It's not as detail as my Librarian up the page, but it came out cleaner.
I sprayed the whole thing Vallejo Grey Surface Primer, then painted the cloak with Iyanden Yellow contrast. Then I painted the pants with Snakebite Leather, and the metallic parts with Vallejo's Silver. I painted the parts I wanted dark metallic with Black Contrast, and left the parts I wanted lighter alone (like the kneepad and gun). The bright metallic parts are Vallejo Liquid Metal Copper (an alcohol based paint, but the shiniest metalic I've ever seen). The green is just Vallejo Transparent Green over Vallejo Silver, and the eyes are just Green Ink over Vallejo Grey Primer.
Another image from Jonas Kristrom over on FB, this time all fully dry and with added Carroburg shade wash:
So in order to get the same intensity as a Contrast paint with existing products, you're going to need two or three applications of something like the Liquitex ink, either with additives to better mimic the Contrast medium or with an additional wash of something like the Carroburg.
Since the Liquitex and similar products seem to be about the same price in pounds for a bottle, but have a bit less than double the volume per bottle, and factoring in the additives/additional shade step, I'd say that at best alternative options are the same price as Contrast, and that actually it's entirely possible the Contrast would be cheaper than making a similar product yourself with "over the counter" supplies although, admittedly, only a few pennies cheaper.
Perhaps it's cheaper making your own, but you could probably paint another unit or two in the time taken to mix it all up.
If you try to build up the colour with multiple coats of Shade, I think you're going to get a buildup in the recesses obscuring detail. If anything the Contrast paint is thinner that a coat of Shade.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Perhaps it's cheaper making your own, but you could probably paint another unit or two in the time taken to mix it all up.
If you try to build up the colour with multiple coats of Shade, I think you're going to get a buildup in the recesses obscuring detail. If anything the Contrast paint is thinner that a coat of Shade.
Maybe I phrased my post confusingly sorry, it's *not* cheaper to make your own, at least with what I can find commonly available at comparable prices. Liquitex and similar brands cost around 4 quid(discounted) for a bottle, which is about the same as a pot of Contrast(also discounted). The Contrast is 18ml to the Liquitex 30ml, but since you need to do at least a couple of coats to mimic the colour intensity of the Contrast, and because you need to either factor in additives or additional washes to punch up the small-c contrast of the ink job, at best it works out around the same price and if anything the Contrast would be a little bit cheaper.
About the cost: Liquitex acrylic inks are actually quite dilute, and the red one is a transparent one (as labelled on the bottle), which explains that it might require a second coat. If you're just after the pigments (so you want to maximize the pigment/money ratio), they're not the best source. Also, for the test pieces shown, the amount of paint were probably quite different between the ink and the contrast paint, which have to be laid down pretty thick, so the cost/mL isn't all that matters.
I still think home-mixed contrast paints should be cheaper, but it's not going to be pennies to dollars, and probably not worth the trouble for most of us. It's a bit like washes, which can be made for much cheaper than buying them, but is usually only worth the trouble if you're painting hundreds on minis or a full gaming table.
What could be a bit more interesting though, is the ability to create new colors by mixing your own contrast. The range is pretty extensive, but some end up looking a lot better than others. Mixing miniature paints sometimes results in very strange results in my experience (when mixing two colors that are quite different), whereas inks are available in primary colors which can be mixed in a relatively predictable manner, so it might be the better way to obtain a specific shade.
Another big advantage is that many artist brands list the exact pigment composition, and have the same colors across multiple paint lines. This could matter for people who want to make big pieces (like vehicles) with a color that matches their infantry painted with contrast. Contrast over large flat surfaces doesn't really work, and if you can't airbrush it, it can be difficult to replicate the same color.
With the above red example, you can buy the liquitex acrylic of the exact same shade, and paint it normally on your vehicles, whereas GW's mephiston red isn't an exact match for the BA contrast (which also depends on the underlying primer obviously).
AndrewGPaul wrote: Perhaps it's cheaper making your own, but you could probably paint another unit or two in the time taken to mix it all up.
If you try to build up the colour with multiple coats of Shade, I think you're going to get a buildup in the recesses obscuring detail. If anything the Contrast paint is thinner that a coat of Shade.
Maybe I phrased my post confusingly sorry, it's *not* cheaper to make your own, at least with what I can find commonly available at comparable prices. Liquitex and similar brands cost around 4 quid(discounted) for a bottle, which is about the same as a pot of Contrast(also discounted). The Contrast is 18ml to the Liquitex 30ml, but since you need to do at least a couple of coats to mimic the colour intensity of the Contrast, and because you need to either factor in additives or additional washes to punch up the small-c contrast of the ink job, at best it works out around the same price and if anything the Contrast would be a little bit cheaper.
Plenty people in this thread claimed though you can make equal paint cheaper.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Perhaps it's cheaper making your own, but you could probably paint another unit or two in the time taken to mix it all up.
If you try to build up the colour with multiple coats of Shade, I think you're going to get a buildup in the recesses obscuring detail. If anything the Contrast paint is thinner that a coat of Shade.
Maybe I phrased my post confusingly sorry, it's *not* cheaper to make your own, at least with what I can find commonly available at comparable prices. Liquitex and similar brands cost around 4 quid(discounted) for a bottle, which is about the same as a pot of Contrast(also discounted). The Contrast is 18ml to the Liquitex 30ml, but since you need to do at least a couple of coats to mimic the colour intensity of the Contrast, and because you need to either factor in additives or additional washes to punch up the small-c contrast of the ink job, at best it works out around the same price and if anything the Contrast would be a little bit cheaper.
Plenty people in this thread claimed though you can make equal paint cheaper.
Plenty people in this thread claimed it's basically just a wash, and a lot of other things besides. What I've seen is a paint that does something unique in my own experience, if not quite a revolutionary as GW's marketing claims, and consistent failure to prove most of the claims about alternatives.
I mean, it's not like I'm a GW fanboy or anything, right now most of my paints are Vallejo and my views on a lot of GW's historical and recent actions are firmly on the record. If someone presents a cheap and easy way to mix your own alternative that achieves a similar effect I'll be all for it, it's just that as of yet despite many claims to the contrary, nobody has done that.
Yodhrin wrote: Another image from Jonas Kristrom over on FB, this time all fully dry and with added Carroburg shade wash:
So in order to get the same intensity as a Contrast paint with existing products, you're going to need two or three applications of something like the Liquitex ink, either with additives to better mimic the Contrast medium or with an additional wash of something like the Carroburg.
Since the Liquitex and similar products seem to be about the same price in pounds for a bottle, but have a bit less than double the volume per bottle, and factoring in the additives/additional shade step, I'd say that at best alternative options are the same price as Contrast, and that actually it's entirely possible the Contrast would be cheaper than making a similar product yourself with "over the counter" supplies although, admittedly, only a few pennies cheaper.
I mentioned a few pages back about valejos translucnet paints. I thought I would plug it again. People are saying the contrast paints are different than washes or inks. Of course they are. However, they seem very similar to valejos translucent ones, and other dark stains. I have used their wood grain and translucent green before and they seem similar to what people are posting with contrast. If I can get my hands on both I will relay the info.
Yodhrin wrote: Another image from Jonas Kristrom over on FB, this time all fully dry and with added Carroburg shade wash:
So in order to get the same intensity as a Contrast paint with existing products, you're going to need two or three applications of something like the Liquitex ink, either with additives to better mimic the Contrast medium or with an additional wash of something like the Carroburg.
Since the Liquitex and similar products seem to be about the same price in pounds for a bottle, but have a bit less than double the volume per bottle, and factoring in the additives/additional shade step, I'd say that at best alternative options are the same price as Contrast, and that actually it's entirely possible the Contrast would be cheaper than making a similar product yourself with "over the counter" supplies although, admittedly, only a few pennies cheaper.
I mentioned a few pages back about valejos translucnet paints. I thought I would plug it again. People are saying the contrast paints are different than washes or inks. Of course they are. However, they seem very similar to valejos translucent ones, and other dark stains. I have used their wood grain and translucent green before and they seem similar to what people are posting with contrast. If I can get my hands on both I will relay the info.
At this point we need picture comparisons. The contrast paints are in the wind and available. Any of these other paint products out there that people keep saying are “Similar” need to be shown, not just talked about.
I’m not just pointing you out, there’s plenty of people who have said that other products do the same or they can achieve the same results with XXXX item and we need to believe them because they are champion painters and compete at the highest levels. It’s time to put up or shut up .
Yodhrin wrote: Another image from Jonas Kristrom over on FB, this time all fully dry and with added Carroburg shade wash:
So in order to get the same intensity as a Contrast paint with existing products, you're going to need two or three applications of something like the Liquitex ink, either with additives to better mimic the Contrast medium or with an additional wash of something like the Carroburg.
Since the Liquitex and similar products seem to be about the same price in pounds for a bottle, but have a bit less than double the volume per bottle, and factoring in the additives/additional shade step, I'd say that at best alternative options are the same price as Contrast, and that actually it's entirely possible the Contrast would be cheaper than making a similar product yourself with "over the counter" supplies although, admittedly, only a few pennies cheaper.
I mentioned a few pages back about valejos translucnet paints. I thought I would plug it again. People are saying the contrast paints are different than washes or inks. Of course they are. However, they seem very similar to valejos translucent ones, and other dark stains. I have used their wood grain and translucent green before and they seem similar to what people are posting with contrast. If I can get my hands on both I will relay the info.
At this point we need picture comparisons. The contrast paints are in the wind and available. Any of these other paint products out there that people keep saying are “Similar” need to be shown, not just talked about.
I’m not just pointing you out, there’s plenty of people who have said that other products do the same or they can achieve the same results with XXXX item and we need to believe them because they are champion painters and compete at the highest levels. It’s time to put up or shut up .
I do not disagree about the comparison pics. I requested them pages ago. I do not have the contrast paints to compare them with.
Yodhrin wrote: Another image from Jonas Kristrom over on FB, this time all fully dry and with added Carroburg shade wash:
So in order to get the same intensity as a Contrast paint with existing products, you're going to need two or three applications of something like the Liquitex ink, either with additives to better mimic the Contrast medium or with an additional wash of something like the Carroburg.
Since the Liquitex and similar products seem to be about the same price in pounds for a bottle, but have a bit less than double the volume per bottle, and factoring in the additives/additional shade step, I'd say that at best alternative options are the same price as Contrast, and that actually it's entirely possible the Contrast would be cheaper than making a similar product yourself with "over the counter" supplies although, admittedly, only a few pennies cheaper.
Did he mention how many coats of each were used? The liquitex ink isn't the same value of red as the contrast paint. So it has less to do with number of coats. It would be like applying multiple coats of wild rider red to garner results similar to khorne red. I'd imagine the answer would be adding a small amount of blue or purple ink to the red if you were looking for a value mach. I think the real selling point of the contrast has to do with the viscosity, since it sits in place better. You would have to mess around with gel mediums and flow aid for a while to try and mimic the contrast medium first if you wanted to solve the recipe. Most folks don't want to do that. I'm sure someone will crack it though.
On the left, the usual thickly applied Contrast paint. In the middle, same colors in the same places, but more thinly applied and taking away pooling paint. On the right, a cleaned up one playing with off-white, pink and yellow to get a pattern on the coat.
I notice that applying Contrast thinly isn't just more work during application (not a big surprise), but makes it easy to miss spots that need cleaning up later which only takes more time and runs the risk of discoloring the bordering area. It seems to me that you are best off to slop on paint to catch all the recesses, then go back over the area with the unloaded brush to take away excess paint, working your way across the model one area at a time.
I do find (again not a big surprise) that a little cleanup goes a long way to improve the quality of the model, with not much time lost on it since you effectively brush paint away from one are of the model to another. But you want to take care that you apply enough in the first place so as not to miss anything and get a good dark to light contrast, which with diluted or plain conservative application may not be there as pronounced as you'd like.
Finally I think it's amazing what you can do with a couple of spots of different color on the base layer. I threw on the patches mostly randomly to save time, what with these being test models, but I can see this effect coming in handy for all sorts of more quality painting, providing a good base layer for surfaces that due to the automatic shades and highlights doesn't need much work to finish. Another highlight, maybe some weathering, and you can get a decent looking paintjob.
Most importantly, I have a much better feeling about Contrast for use on models with empty surfaces now. The ability to prepare the basecoat in such a way that the coat of Contrast produces an interesting look instead of a flat color and some ugly stains is of use to me. I was afraid that Contrast was only of use for specific models, but overcoming this particular problem opens up the paint for me, which I like because I am notoriously slow and anything that saves time without impacting quality is very welcome indeed. I can see painting power armor and such with contrast now where I was wary before. Might turn out to be a blessing when plastic Sisters are released.
I think I need to buy a couple more paints next time I'm at the local store.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
Contrast in vehicles might be usable to make stains etc but yeah that's about it. At least with brush. Maybe airbrush it works better.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: None of the tutorials on Warhammer TV use Chaos Black or Corax White before one of the other colored sprays.
Then again they haven't been using actual primers with their non-primer sprays before in tutorial either. What they don't sell they don't advertize.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
I think the issue is how do you paint match the contrast effect otherwise?
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
I think the issue is how do you paint match the contrast effect otherwise?
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? .
Is this a trick question?
Something wacky like an airbrush seems like it would render the contrast paints ineffective. Or at least more difficult to get the various pigments moved around recesses and raised areas properly.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? .
Is this a trick question?
Something wacky like an airbrush seems like it would render the contrast paints ineffective. Or at least more difficult to get the various pigments moved around recesses and raised areas properly.
Contrast acts like a standard paint through an airbrush, it just won't do the pooling in the recesses thing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
Contrast in vehicles might be usable to make stains etc but yeah that's about it. At least with brush. Maybe airbrush it works better.
Although you can airbrush contrast paints, as we've seen, it defeats the whole purpose of the contrast paints. At that point you might as well just airbrush air paints or other paints.
The Phazer wrote: I think the issue is how do you paint to match the contrast effect otherwise?
Based on the tests that I have seen done so far, I wouldn't say you use contrast paints to paint the 'whole' body. Contrast paints are just another tool, they aren't meant to completely replace all methods of painting. For larger items and vehicles I'd use standard methods of painting, primer, base coat but instead of the glaze and wash which would only be applied to the recesses (you wouldn't normally paint a whole vehicle drenched in wash), then I'd use the Contrast paints in just the recesses detailed parts of the vehicles (where you'd normally apply washes).
Some of the Contrast paints I ordered came in last night and I tried them out.
They were more or less what I thought they would be - just fancy washes, nothing revolutionary. I've been priming Grots white and "painting" them with green wash for a decade and this doesn't really bring anything new to the table.
I'm not really bagging on them, it's nice to have a bunch of new shades to do these with - but if you're someone who already does primer-base-highlights-wash, this isn't going to do anything new for you and it's not revolutionary.
I think the real target demo for this is essentially kids and people who don't paint at all. Now you can prime your space marines white with a spray can, glop a bunch of contrast on them, and have results that look vastly better than grey legions. In that respect, it's a step forward for the hobby.
It also seems like a good way to get a relatively smooth yellow over a white basecoat without an airbrush if you aren't into airbrushing, which is again a step forward.
If you are doing Green Horde for Orks, or massed Tyranids, this gives you a ton of new hue options that you couldn't easily do with what GW or Army Painter washes did. More choices are always better. For that kind of stuff I'd been mixing up my Les Bursley recipe washes on my own, but this gets you there with no hassles, no experimenting, and probably cheaper to try it out since you're not having to buy a $5 bottle of ink along with flow aid, matte medium, and so on (although over the long run, making your own is vastly cheaper).
I don't hate them, and I don't love them. I will use what I bought but they definitely didn't blow my mind.
If they had announced these paints as a simpler alternative painting system without overhyping them as the next coming, I think I would have been a little more jazzed about them.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? .
Is this a trick question?
Something wacky like an airbrush seems like it would render the contrast paints ineffective. Or at least more difficult to get the various pigments moved around recesses and raised areas properly.
Contrast acts like a standard paint through an airbrush, it just won't do the pooling in the recesses thing.
Well, that's kinda my point. You're paying the same price for 18 ml of paint rather than 24 ml for... no real reason.
After finishing my test model, I went ahead and put the base on the rest of the squad. I grabbed a picture just to show what it looks like with the primer -> metallic dry brush -> Black Templar contrast
Spoiler:
Strangely, I've found that the easiest way to avoid unwanted pooling is to put a lot on, let the capillary action do it's thing, and trust that it will dry evenly. Only parts that didn't dry how I wanted want the front of the storm shields which I can touch up later. I don't really try to move the paint around on the model, though I may suck some up with the brush.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to this man, he has destroyed 3 Rhinos so far so we don't have to.
I mean.. I guess. Does anyone actually paint vehicles like Rhino with a brush though? It is good to see someone actually do an example so there are pictures and video of what we do know, Contrast paints aren't meant for large flat surfaces where there is nothing to contrast and they show brush strokes (because there is no texture to contrast with). Although using the sponge method can give an interesting weather effect which isn't too bad.
Contrast in vehicles might be usable to make stains etc but yeah that's about it. At least with brush. Maybe airbrush it works better.
Although you can airbrush contrast paints, as we've seen, it defeats the whole purpose of the contrast paints. At that point you might as well just airbrush air paints or other paints.
The Phazer wrote: I think the issue is how do you paint to match the contrast effect otherwise?
Based on the tests that I have seen done so far, I wouldn't say you use contrast paints to paint the 'whole' body. Contrast paints are just another tool, they aren't meant to completely replace all methods of painting. For larger items and vehicles I'd use standard methods of painting, primer, base coat but instead of the glaze and wash which would only be applied to the recesses (you wouldn't normally paint a whole vehicle drenched in wash), then I'd use the Contrast paints in just the recesses detailed parts of the vehicles (where you'd normally apply washes).
Well, you've hit on exactly why you'd airbrush the Contrast paints despite them losing the Contrast medium properties right there in the second part - for vehicles, in order to maintain a consistent colourscheme. Couple of airbrush coats to establish a nice even base, then go in with a brush and apply the Contrast manually to panel lines etc.
And for the people who keep saying "it's just wash" - seriously, let me know what washes you were using before that worked like this, because I've never owned or used one that required less than three or four coats to achieve the same intensity and coverage Contrast achieves in one, and I have washes from just about every brand going and a few I made myself.
Got a couple of hours in at the local GW yesterday trying out the full range(well, almost full, their stock was decimated and in some cases was so low they couldn't even refill the paint station), and I was impressed with almost all of them. Basilicanum Grey was a bit wonky on big smooth surfaces even if I babied it, but everything else I tried was amazing. One coat of Aethermatic over Wraithbone gives me the same effect as five or six applications of Nihiahk Oxide over white for ghosts, Talassar Blue over gold really is one-coat Alpha Legion, all the browns I could try were rich and interesting - I can't wait to give that "splotchy undercoat" method from earlier in the thread a try for leather coats.
Once the stock issues are sorted I'll likely pick up the whole range.
Chris521 wrote: After finishing my test model, I went ahead and put the base on the rest of the squad. I grabbed a picture just to show what it looks like with the primer -> metallic dry brush -> Black Templar contrast
Spoiler:
Strangely, I've found that the easiest way to avoid unwanted pooling is to put a lot on, let the capillary action do it's thing, and trust that it will dry evenly. Only parts that didn't dry how I wanted want the front of the storm shields which I can touch up later. I don't really try to move the paint around on the model, though I may suck some up with the brush.
Many thanks for experimenting and sharing!
All I need now is a good white power armour result and madness lies ahead in my direct future.
Chris521 wrote: After finishing my test model, I went ahead and put the base on the rest of the squad. I grabbed a picture just to show what it looks like with the primer -> metallic dry brush -> Black Templar contrast
Spoiler:
Strangely, I've found that the easiest way to avoid unwanted pooling is to put a lot on, let the capillary action do it's thing, and trust that it will dry evenly. Only parts that didn't dry how I wanted want the front of the storm shields which I can touch up later. I don't really try to move the paint around on the model, though I may suck some up with the brush.
Hey looking pretty good. My main concern when I first saw examples from some of the pros were that they looked like models by someone that's been painting for a month (and these were minis painted by some pretty good painters...yet commenters were impressed that these talented people had managed to make some semi-passable paint jobs and somehow this was a great sign). Anyway I'm rambling, these look decent, I can't see what your usual stuff looks like (maybe these are a step down IDK) but I quite like these either way.
AduroT wrote: Has anyone tried painting the Apothecary White over different colors yet to see what effect it might have?
I did it over stormhost silver, but have not tried it over straight colors.
Krylon white primer, stormhost silver and then the three shown in the foreground have apothecary white, Iyaden yellow and Blood angels red on the top half of the shields.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Someone mentioned a cheap primer alternative. Something from krylon. What was it? Ivory satin?
Yes.
Sprue sprayed with Krylon Ivory Satin. Stripes on the left are Wraithbone. Pic was taken in full sun so the satin looks a little bit lighter than it actually is.
After messing around with the paints since Saturday I'm going to be sticking to the "old" method when it comes to armour. Even on infantry I'm not keen on the effect. But for anything organic like flesh, cloth and fur? Contrast really is magic in a bottle
Yeah, this video makes detractors look really bad. Painting massed small minis with normal paints to similar tabletop standard would be insane and certainly wouldn't take a minute per model like it did here. Ditto with trying to paint with washes, effect would be much worse and coverage nowhere near as good. The white, bleached patches washes left on that small test model a few pages back would look downright ugly on small human troopers. Could you use both to match contrast? Maybe, but I can't see it taking less than half an hour instead of minute and correcting errors (which never happen in such small scale, eh?) would be a nightmare in comparison, sooo...
Contrast paint is perfect for smaller scale stuff. Just think about all the models from warhammer that it looks best on. One with areas with loads of texture. A smaller scale model is going to have smaller spaces without texture. I have two epic armies to paint up and I'm definitely grabbing the main colour for each one in contrast.
I applied it on Corax White and on an already painted turban with my usual colour scheme of Ceramite White + Seraphim Sepia + Terminatus Stone. The later came out a bit more on the green side, but I'm quite satisfied with both results.
I will try out Nazdreg Yellow on their shirts next.
So far I think I will stay with the usual combination of base+shade+layer, but I think the contrast paints are a nice addition. And I especially hope the Nazdreg Yellow will help me get a more satisfying result on the Guardsmen Shirts, where i always struggle to get shading and highlighting right.
I have to say that I'm surprised how little of the metallic tones show through the contrast colors. I was hoping for an almost metallic metal look but only slightly more muted than if you used an actual metallic brush on paint. Thanks for posting more of the comparison shots.
I have to say that I'm surprised how little of the metallic tones show through the contrast colors. I was hoping for an almost metallic metal look but only slightly more muted than if you used an actual metallic brush on paint. Thanks for posting more of the comparison shots.
It could be their technique. As a Contrast paint, you want 'one thick coat' as they like to say. For tinting a metallic undercoat you'd want a thinner coat applied as you would a traditional paint like in this tutorial...
I have to say that I'm surprised how little of the metallic tones show through the contrast colors. I was hoping for an almost metallic metal look but only slightly more muted than if you used an actual metallic brush on paint. Thanks for posting more of the comparison shots.
It could be their technique. As a Contrast paint, you want 'one thick coat' as they like to say. For tinting a metallic undercoat you'd want a thinner coat applied as you would a traditional paint like in this tutorial...
Spoiler:
Yes. I haven't tried Contrast on metallics yet, but you should probably think of it as the base layer tinting the Contrast paint and not the other way around. As such you want to limit how much pigment you put on so as not to obscure the base layer. Contrast is pretty intense.
I have tried tinting Leadbelcher with both Snakebite Leather and Aggaros Dunes with good results. Personally though I
sat there thinking why not just paint the sections with the appropriate paints? It wouldn't have taken much more time.
I think Contrast for me works better when doing things as simply as possible therefore saving the maximum amount of time and still heeding (if you have good brush control) nice enough results.
PurpleEcho wrote: I have tried tinting Leadbelcher with both Snakebite Leather and Aggaros Dunes with good results. Personally though I
sat there thinking why not just paint the sections with the appropriate paints? It wouldn't have taken much more time.
I think Contrast for me works better when doing things as simply as possible therefore saving the maximum amount of time and still heeding (if you have good brush control) nice enough results.
In theory, because you could buy just one metallic colour(bright silver) and do any colour of metallic that way by applying a Contrast to it? IDK outside of using Talassar on a bright gold for Alpha Legion, I'll be sticking with the Darkstar Molten Metals range.
Working on my Gloomspite Gitz, used alternative sprays as GW's were sold out.
Very good results with Zenital highlights. The contrast does spread a lot when you put it on so control is an issue. I spent a lot of time going back over and tidying up. I did get gray seer and wraithbone in the bottles though. My alternative primers were not identical to grey seer but still had great results.
With all this talk about primers and such. Any flat or matte paint can work as a primer. I hate when people ask if certain things are primers. The surface of the model has the most to do with whether paint will stick. Spray flat paints stick to pretty much anything.
Contrast is an opague style paint so as long as you don't use anything too dark as the base then you won't have an issue. If you use something with color, just like any other opague style paint it can distort the color, which could be a desired or undesired effect.
Haven't tried them yet, but noticed that Vallejo has a new line "Mecha" paints that main element is they are more satin in their finish. Since that was one of the key element of the can primers, might be worth trying. Will see how it goes if I can ever get off my butt and break out the airbrush.
Dark Severance wrote: Although you can airbrush contrast paints, as we've seen, it defeats the whole purpose of the contrast paints. At that point you might as well just airbrush air paints or other paints.
Not neccessarily. Effect seems to be bit different compared to regular paint with more of undercoat visible.
I'm not sure if I'll be using many of the Contrast paints, as in some cases results seem inconsistent. The black also seems to be clogging up fast, which is... not ideal.
OTOH, this face took me about 10-15 seconds:
Spoiler:
Could I have done that myself? Yeah, sure. Would it have taken 10 seconds? I fething wish.
So at the very least, I can see myself using asiduously some of the new paints.
Irbis wrote: Yeah, this video makes detractors look really bad. Painting massed small minis with normal paints to similar tabletop standard would be insane and certainly wouldn't take a minute per model like it did here.
As a "detractor", I don't know what to tell you. I'm not agreeing with the happy consensus out of some misguided corporate loyalty or because I think GW are scum. I've always maintained their paint lines have been of a consistently high quality. I took my time trying out Contrast paints, and my experiences were overhwelmingly negative. I had constant issues with brush control and was not able to achieve neat transitions or sharp edges to colored areas (which are vital for the paint schemes for all my armies). As someone who paints only occasionally and whose unfinished work therefore often has to wait several years to get varnished, the poor durability of the Contrast layer was the real dealbreaker for me, together with the seeming impossibility of touch-ups or corrections with the technique.
Irbis wrote: Yeah, this video makes detractors look really bad. Painting massed small minis with normal paints to similar tabletop standard would be insane and certainly wouldn't take a minute per model like it did here.
As a "detractor", I don't know what to tell you. I'm not agreeing with the happy consensus out of some misguided corporate loyalty or because I think GW are scum. I've always maintained their paint lines have been of a consistently high quality. I took my time trying out Contrast paints, and my experiences were overhwelmingly negative. I had constant issues with brush control and was not able to achieve neat transitions or sharp edges to colored areas (which are vital for the paint schemes for all my armies). As someone who paints only occasionally and whose unfinished work therefore often has to wait several years to get varnished, the poor durability of the Contrast layer was the real dealbreaker for me, together with the seeming impossibility of touch-ups or corrections with the technique.
Durability seems to me lower than other acrylic paint, but otherwise behaving just like it. Relatively easy to damage in the first hours after application but reasonably solid after a day.
I took a knife to a surface painted with Contrast to wipe away some excess paint and it didn't harm it in any way. That was on the next day after the paint had ample time to set.
I varnish habitually and would definitely advise varnishing if you intend to handle the models. If you just shelf them for further painting later, from my limited experience I don't think I'd worry about the paint coming off in the meantime.
After playing with them over the weekend, I'm slightly positive about them.
On the whole I'm not hugely enamored of the results when used on an entire model. While I'm sure said results will improve with practice (as all things do), the paints seem to be a bit finicky in application. As mentioned, this is compounded when correction for a stray brush stroke becomes a process of re-applying the base paint versus a small-touch up of the original color with traditional paints; it's like messing up a dry-brushed area really. The rate of consumption of the paint, as also noted by others, also seems like it will be prodigious over the course of a good-sized project (which I'm sure GW does not consider a problem). They also do appear to be a bit fragile, though I'm still at the stage where "rubbed off" versus "just didn't paint" is still a bit nebulous.
On the flip-side, I was able to paint a Glade Guard in under an hour with around seven different colors. It won't win best painted laurels in any competition, but it does look infinitely better than grey plastic. There are certain colors in the range that appear to be absolutely fantastic, and others that are just a let-down in comparison. Snakebite leather is great, Gulliman Flesh is certainly workable and the "rich" colors of blue, red, green will certainly find their roles in particular processes.
Overall they're a nice addition to the toolkit, and I think most of the colors I picked up will get worked into various roles as a faster way of getting an effect. I do think those little tweaks to processes are really going to be their strength though more than the mass-painting armies.
I'm working my way through a Blood Warrior using only contrast paints. So far I've used Flesh Tearer Red, Black Templar, Basilicanum Grey and Aggaros Dunes all over primed Grey Seer and I think the results are pretty good. I actually feared how robust the paint would be after application after hearing stories of it rubbing off however I've not experienced this at all. I've even gone as far as rubbing the painted areas with my thumb and using water to clear away a stray bit of wet Grey Seer and I've had none of the Contrast paint come away from the surface.
My one issue with them is with the initial reason they were invented. How much real world time will they save me? For the time saved in applying the contrast paints because of the very nature of the paint you often have to go back to retouch over areas with the original basecoat and this just results in a feeling of "Is this saving me a huge chunk of time?" I mean sure you could slap contrast on and not care about the areas you've hit with the wrong colours but I think for a lot of painters novice or not that does matter.
I don't think GW have reinvented the wheel here I think they've just brought out another product that will have some uses. For painters who struggle when thinning their paints down and applying shades then Contrast paints will be of use. I'd personally recommend just getting that little bit of practice in to perfect those two areas.
Contrast paints though are enjoyable to use and this may be down to the fact you see visually impressive results a bit sooner in the process whereas with the traditional method it might take that bit longer to see everything pull together.
I'm a bit miffed that a lot of the Contrast is still sold out on the GW site, was hoping to make use of their paint bundle deal before it ends, but alas.
BrookM wrote: I'm a bit miffed that a lot of the Contrast is still sold out on the GW site, was hoping to make use of their paint bundle deal before it ends, but alas.
Yeah... After 19 of 36 paints were not available online on the first day of online pre-order sales, I decided that it would be better to show up at a GW store if I wanted to actually get the colors I wanted, which did actually work...
BrookM wrote: I'm a bit miffed that a lot of the Contrast is still sold out on the GW site, was hoping to make use of their paint bundle deal before it ends, but alas.
You could email GW to ask them if its possible to extend the cut off date for the bundle deal. If they get enough customers saying "hey, I ordered on day one and didn't have a chance", then they might do that.
Personally, I'm still waiting on the preorder for an Iyanden Yellow with Wayland, which hasn't come in stock yet. I have noticed the Iyanden Yellow has gone out of stock on the GW site today so I guess its just bad luck.
I gave them a try at the weekend as I know have them all except for Black. Managed to knock up 6 ETB Pox Walkers within about 4 and a half hours (a bit of which was spent cleaning an entirely pot of knocked over contrast). Really impressed with the results for the time spent. Not the fastest but I am a very slow painter. Once my black arrives will give some Death Guard a try.
BrookM wrote: I'm a bit miffed that a lot of the Contrast is still sold out on the GW site, was hoping to make use of their paint bundle deal before it ends, but alas.
If you have a GW shop, they actually are doing it in stores as well.
Along with just slopping them on, they work quite well for more controlled touch-ups as well. Very impressed with just how good they are.
They won't completely replace Quickshades for me, as I like the control of the less opaque pigments in most of the Quickshades, but they're certainly fun.
I actually wonder if a quickshade subsequent pass solves two things. Accentuate the recesses more and protects being a polyurethane layer on top. Might be interesting to see them together
BrookM wrote: I'm a bit miffed that a lot of the Contrast is still sold out on the GW site, was hoping to make use of their paint bundle deal before it ends, but alas.
Just get the paints you want from element games instead. Comparatively you save about £4 on the price, and that covers all the layer paints too if you don't want 4 base paints.
I dont think I've used them before... will have to check them out. I didnt really need any new paints anyway, but I figured I'd do the bundle to take advantage of the former forge world colours, and the same amount of products on EG was cheaper so I just ordered em.
I've always found Firestorm to be very good and reliable. Discount isn't always as high as Element/Wayland but the service is normally faster and on many things the discount difference isn't that huge anyway.
My one issue with them is with the initial reason they were invented. How much real world time will they save me? For the time saved in applying the contrast paints because of the very nature of the paint you often have to go back to retouch over areas with the original basecoat and this just results in a feeling of "Is this saving me a huge chunk of time?" I mean sure you could slap contrast on and not care
This is why I think the best option is just a single contrast layer of the main colour followed by painting the rest with regular paints (plus maybe Contrast on the bits hard to get right otherwise: faces and cloaks come to mind). This is only faster if you already wash different parts of the mini in different shades though. If you're the type to just do base colours plus a single all-over wash it's probably no quicker.
Did half of War of the Ring the weekend, just painting a single contrast colour on each over Wraithbone. Will add in some details but mostly want them to look like coloured game pieces rather than mins (for usability). Not much quicker than just a wash over a spray primer, but at least I didn't have to buy six different spray primers. And got more choice on colour. And it does look *a bit* better. You get some minor highlighting around the raised areas.
Has anyone tried Contrast over a Vallejo liquid metal base? With the stronger metals it could make the effect better?
All of the stores got sent an excess of stock after seeing how fast the paint sold out online during the preorder, I was told that by the guy that runs my local GW. That's currently the place to go and get paint that are out of stock online
Alpharius wrote: Has GW given any indication as to when Contrast paints will be getting a restock?
Many of the to be expected popular colors are OOS and have been since...the start?
Yup, 19 out of 36 contrast item unavailable or out of stock on the first day of pre-orders when I tried to order.
This seems to be the answer to where all the paint went:
Jeansicus wrote: All of the stores got sent an excess of stock after seeing how fast the paint sold out online during the preorder, I was told that by the guy that runs my local GW. That's currently the place to go and get paint that are out of stock online
My local GW received new paints yesterday, but even they didn't get all of them (they're still out of Black templar, apothecary white, and Flesh tearer red).
So GW stores are still the best place to get them atm, but call ahead just in case.
I gave in last night and bought the bundle from element games
Estimated arrival is around 10th July
I'm completely fine with waiting though
I have a batch of 44 cultists I'm finishing the old fashioned way
Then i can sit and test these contrasts out on various undercoats
I'm really leaning towards a gold undercoat and a blood angel red contrast paint over for my World Eaters/Crimson Slaughter *dependent on what codex I want to play at the time
fresus wrote: My local GW received new paints yesterday, but even they didn't get all of them (they're still out of Black templar, apothecary white, and Flesh tearer red).
So GW stores are still the best place to get them atm, but call ahead just in case.
Black Templar has been out of stock at my local GW since release day. It'll be a while before the hype dies down and product ships normally.
Yeah going out of stock on this was kinda expected, esp right now when everyone wants them at the same time so its putting far more strain on the production side. Give it a few months and the panic will settle down as people start working with them. It might last a little longer because the method of application tends to use paint up faster than regular paints that you'd always water down. Plus there's likely way more beginners doing beginner mistakes and experimenting with them.
Annoyingly I've had Black Templar on order from Wayland Games for weeks now. I pre ordered it along with some other colours. Got the others but Black Templar is still out of stock.
They have a bad reputation?
Honestly I have never had any trouble.
Wayland are reliable, but they have a reputation for being somewhat on the slower side.
Partly its a legacy issue because their old store didn't show accurate stock levels so you could order something "in stock" and find yourself waiting 2 weeks because it was actually out of stock and not manually updated (likely a split between online and store sales). This setup a reputation that they've not lost, even though their current store has accurate stock displays. I also think that being a big stock turnover they sometimes hit the limit on what they can order from some distributors/suppliers in a given week, so again that can sometimes extend the delivery time.
It's more a frustration esp in these days where we are used to Amazon dropping stuff off the next day (gone is the old "please leave at least 14 days for delivery" days of mail order).
The problem I have with Wayland is communication when something is out of stock.
Most other websites I order from for hobby supplies give an ETA on delivery/dispatch.
Wayland you still have to ticket them/phone.
BUT
They are prepared to split orders for delivery you just have to message them asking so.
Sometimes I don't mind waiting - like with ElementGames I've just emailed them to ask them please don't dispatch my contrast paints until you have everything
I ordered the element games bundle within 5 minutes and still waiting for my black Templar. Local GW has been out since launch day as well. Manage to order from Firestorm and was shipped by Royal Mail 24 postage (turns out 1st class) on Tuesday but frustratingly still not arrived.
For what it's worth I have checked with multiple hobby shops in my area and they are all stating that they are getting their contrast restocked today, Friday the 28th.
So you may want to check back with your local store if you have one. I live on the US West Coast.
Wayland are a good supplier but you do have to take into account how they go about their orders. In recent times, so long as you don't order something as "restock expected", the orders have been dealt within days and you're looking at delivery within a week.
The preorders are usually good too and I've had confirmation even a day before a release date. This is the only time I've been waiting on a preorder, and quite forgiving, save that I mostly preordered a single contrast yellow simply to get free p&p on the order. Iyanden Yellow is now back in stock on the GW site, so I'm going to assume we can expect to see a result soon...
Goobertown is a great little channel, really positive and chilled out and he does some great experimentation. He is also a chemist so sometimes he goes into detail about how paints and glues work.
Seems like Contrast is mostly a heavy wash, which is fine, a useful product. Probs not worth the money though.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
This guy's method is great if you already have the materials, or were already planning to buy the materials, or if you genuinely enjoy experimenting and messing about with paints.
If your objective is to paint some models, I'd say ~4 quid a pot from a discounter is, if not a fair price, then at least a tolerable one given what you're getting.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
I do appreciate people doing this kind of experimentation. However, if I'm buying contract paint because I want something that looks almost as good as base/highlight/wash but with 1/3 the paints and a fraction of the time, I'm not going to be that interested in something that looks almost as good as one coat of contrast but with five times the ingredients and extra work coming up with the right recipe.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
It'd be a trivial matter to buy all of a range of ink like Daler Rowney@ £5 a bottle and a large bottle of matte medium for £100. Then when you start adding bottles from other manufacturers to plug gaps in the range you've bought and it'd rack up surprisingly quickly. £200? Maybe not, but three figures without blinking.
A number of the colors in the contrast range are a suspension of more than one color - perhaps the binder has one color and then the pigment is another color. You can see it clearly in the yellows in particular. I don't see how you could hope to replicate the results produced by Nazdreg and Iyanden Yellow with a homemade brew.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
It'd be a trivial matter to buy all of a range of ink like Daler Rowney@ £5 a bottle and a large bottle of matte medium for £100. Then when you start adding bottles from other manufacturers to plug gaps in the range you've bought and it'd rack up surprisingly quickly. £200? Maybe not, but three figures without blinking.
You can buy high quality Daler-Rowney ink for 4 GBP which are 30ml and Liquitex matte medium 1l for around 25 GBP, 240ml matte medium will be enough for a life time and goes for around 10 GBP .
Contrast paints are stinking expansive, like they are made of gold....
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
It'd be a trivial matter to buy all of a range of ink like Daler Rowney@ £5 a bottle and a large bottle of matte medium for £100. Then when you start adding bottles from other manufacturers to plug gaps in the range you've bought and it'd rack up surprisingly quickly. £200? Maybe not, but three figures without blinking.
Sure, if you go the whole range of inks.
Exactly how much is the whole range of Contrast paints, again? If you're going to make that argument, make sure you're comparing apples to apples.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "OMG don't buy Contrast!" There's totally valid reasons to do so. But there's also totally valid reasons to make your own semi-equivalents from other stuff. (You could make the argument that if you have all the various bits, you can make more options with inks and mediums than you would have if you "just" used Contrast and its thinner medium.)
I don't get the vitriol either way. I've tried a couple contrast paints. They're ok, they remind me a lot of 20 years ago when adding Future Floor Finish to washes was the "new big thing in miniature painting." Sure, they have their uses, and sure, the convenience of a consistent mix may be worth the price to some. Do I see myself using them? Maybe sometimes, for some quick effects. Do I see me using them exclusively? No, not by a long shot. Do I still make my own various washes/glazes/whatever? You bet.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
It'd be a trivial matter to buy all of a range of ink like Daler Rowney@ £5 a bottle and a large bottle of matte medium for £100. Then when you start adding bottles from other manufacturers to plug gaps in the range you've bought and it'd rack up surprisingly quickly. £200? Maybe not, but three figures without blinking.
You can buy high quality Daler-Rowney ink for 4 GBP which are 30ml and Liquitex matte medium 1l for around 25 GBP, 240ml matte medium will be enough for a life time and goes for around 10 GBP .
Contrast paints are stinking expansive, like they are made of gold....
Okay. So let's say I buy 8 bottles of ink for 32 GBP, and mix all that up with the 240 ml of matte medium for 10 GBP. So after I mix all that up, I've got 8 different colors of some stuff which hopefully works the way I want, for 42 GBP.
Contrast paints go for 4 GBP on Wayland games. So for the same price and literally no work, I could have had 10 different contrast paints. Sure you have less of each color, but that only matters for ones you'll use a lot of.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
That made me laugh too Especially considering the full contrast line with sprays and medium is over 300 dollars.
Using the 1:1 recipe he shared in the video would yield a price of $2.68 per Oz. or $0.09 per ml using the links I shared. Not adding in flowaid since it's comically cheap, just burrow a drop of soap from the kitchen.
Thats $1.61 for 18ml compared to contrast paint at $7.80 for 18ml.
$1.61 or $7.80
Now, will it take experimenting to exactly match contrast colors? Sure, but my question is why bother? It's a new line with no real direct relationship to the older lines colors so color matching GW exactly is pointless. just mach your own prior mixes by writing down the recipe or you can just mix inks until you get the shade your after and make it by the pint if you never want to mix a specific color again lol.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
if you are putting down "a couple of hundred quid" on a few inks, a bottle of matte medium and a bottle of flow aid, you are getting ripped of
It'd be a trivial matter to buy all of a range of ink like Daler Rowney@ £5 a bottle and a large bottle of matte medium for £100. Then when you start adding bottles from other manufacturers to plug gaps in the range you've bought and it'd rack up surprisingly quickly. £200? Maybe not, but three figures without blinking.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw I am not knocking folks who buy contrast.
Convenience definitely has a value.
But folks like Yodhrin making it sound like Everest levels of effort, the same guy that thinks an airbrush compressor will wake the neighborhood makes me chuckle.
For some folks, learning how a thing works or making it your own IS part of the hobby. A lot of dedicated painters also already have those inks and mediums, which is more who the video is after anyway.
Well I can report that I am finally getting those bloody paints, after 3 weeks of waiting. Apparently paints I ordered where exactly those that were most ordered.
Well expect for bloody Apothecary White that is out everywhere.
I've been paint for nearly 30 years, so I have literally thousands of dollars in paints, consumables, and equipment.
I use the inks he shows, and have, for quite some time. I just never thought about what he suggested.
So for me, it's weird to justify a $6-$8 per pot cost if I already have similar stuff on the bench. I actually don't buy many GW paints because of the $ per mL compared to others is just ridiculous.
From the goober video. I think this is right before he shows which ones are his own DIY mix and which are GW contrast (the picture contains both)
It's also funny that one is made from michael's brand craftsmart craft paint instead of ink. So he was getting contrast like performance out of matte medium, flow aid and cheap discount brand craft paint. Actually, I think it might actually look better than the contrast paint, lol.
I bought a pot of blood angel red to try it out (and I have some mechanicus robes to paint, so why not?) and after seeing them in person, I'm thinking contrast are okay, but not worth the $10 a bottle they are here in Canada. For the same $10 i can get 250ml of matte medium (I'm actually almost out after making washes years ago when Les first did his recipes) and I already have a ton of paints and inks to mix in if I ever want to do a translucent coat over a light primer.
I think contrast paints are great if they get people who otherwise would not paint getting their armies done. I've already helped someone figure out contrast paint and then doing a 50-50 nuln oil/contrast medium recess shade. They've made more progress since contrast paints came out than the year before.
For me contrast has been a massive boost to my painting, I can only do about 20 minutes at a time so usually only get a couple of models base coated or a single layer painted in 1 session but with contrast I can paint 5-10 models to tabletop standard in 20 minutes. yeah they are not going to win any prizes and they need work to finish them off but I have painted more models to a tabletop standard in the last two weeks (30 Gretchen, 15 clan rats and a few other minis that I used for practice to see how contrast worked) than I have in the last two years.
As for making your own contrast that argument is like saying "I don't buy a Big Mac because I can get all the ingredients cheaper somewhere else and go home and make a load of burgers myself" but while you are mixing ingredients I've finished my burger and got on with my day
I like home made terrain. No one will ever convince me that a ruin that I can make (to my admittedly low standards) for under $5 all-in is not a better deal than GW ready-to go terrain. I enjoy building the terrain, and taking the time to build from scratch is something I enjoy.
But paint? I don't enjoy painting, and having to futz about trying to make paint work on the cheap, rather than buying a more expensive ready-made product would NEVER be worth it to me. I'm looking forward to trying out Contrast paints on my next project.
Paint crafters are weird. But home-made terrain, all day, every day is awesome.
(Just joking folks. You like what you like and that's ok!)
Mixing your own makes sense if you're a commission painter and really need litres of the stuff.
When you need 1 bottle that costs 6 euro from GW to paint one whole army, it makes zero sense to spend 6 euro on a bottle of ink and 10+ euro on acrylic medium just to stick it to the man.
oni wrote: Are there any Contrast videos of a Cadian guardsman? I've been looking, but cannot find one in the traditional Cadian color scheme.
I have an AM army all still in boxes and I'm thinking that I could crank them out quickly as they would be quick and easy with Contrast paint.
I don't think there's a video, but the way to go(from my experience playing around with the paints) would be:
-Wraithbone basecoat
-Militarum Green armor
-Aggaros Dune for the fatigues
oni wrote: Are there any Contrast videos of a Cadian guardsman? I've been looking, but cannot find one in the traditional Cadian color scheme.
I have an AM army all still in boxes and I'm thinking that I could crank them out quickly as they would be quick and easy with Contrast paint.
I don't think there's a video, but the way to go(from my experience playing around with the paints) would be:
-Wraithbone basecoat
-Militarum Green armor
-Aggaros Dune for the fatigues
The traditional Cadian Guardsman can be found in the Citadel Colour app.
oni wrote: Are there any Contrast videos of a Cadian guardsman? I've been looking, but cannot find one in the traditional Cadian color scheme.
I have an AM army all still in boxes and I'm thinking that I could crank them out quickly as they would be quick and easy with Contrast paint.
I don't think there's a video, but the way to go(from my experience playing around with the paints) would be:
-Wraithbone basecoat
-Militarum Green armor
-Aggaros Dune for the fatigues
I finally picked some up and I am happy with what they can do - Guilliman flesh is particularly fantastic. I bought them from my local GW and the staffer told me it was their best June sales ever as the new paint range had outsold the 8th edition launch in 2017.
OPULENCE wrote: I finally picked some up and I am happy with what they can do - Guilliman flesh is particularly fantastic. I bought them from my local GW and the staffer told me it was their best June sales ever as the new paint range had outsold the 8th edition launch in 2017.
I can well believe it. Element Games has just emailed me to inform me the outstanding part of my order (I ordered the Contrast paints bundle) is delayed again. This includes the white, black and a couple of blues. It seems they are fabulously popular right now.
edit: Should be clear, I am in no way having a go at Element Games - they are consistently superb whenever I use them but it just goes to show, if they are having trouble stocking the most popular colours, it gives you some indication of demand right now - unless GW are deliberately restricting supply to inflate demand a la Nintendo but that seems a wee bit tinfoil hat to be true.
Wow, I did not expect my offhand comment to spark such discussion about price and making it yourself.
To be clear, I probably would not make them myself either but was saying that the cost of the basic contrast paints was a bit high. I did not think that was controversial!
Since then I have been thinking about it and might actually try some out on my Lizardmen. Not sure though, might stick to the old fashioned way.
OPULENCE wrote: I finally picked some up and I am happy with what they can do - Guilliman flesh is particularly fantastic. I bought them from my local GW and the staffer told me it was their best June sales ever as the new paint range had outsold the 8th edition launch in 2017.
I can well believe it. Element Games has just emailed me to inform me the outstanding part of my order (I ordered the Contrast paints bundle) is delayed again. This includes the white, black and a couple of blues. It seems they are fabulously popular right now.
edit: Should be clear, I am in no way having a go at Element Games - they are consistently superb whenever I use them but it just goes to show, if they are having trouble stocking the most popular colours, it gives you some indication of demand right now - unless GW are deliberately restricting supply to inflate demand a la Nintendo but that seems a wee bit tinfoil hat to be true.
Not restricting supply in general to create scarcity, but I am convinced at this point that they're actively screwing with Element and Wayland. If you want new releases on time, try Firestorm Games - they had 100+ of every bottle except the Black on release day.
Da Boss wrote: To be clear, I probably would not make them myself either but was saying that the cost of the basic contrast paints was a bit high. I did not think that was controversial!
I don't think it is either. They certainly ain't cheap, usefulness notwithstanding.
Da Boss wrote: To be clear, I probably would not make them myself either but was saying that the cost of the basic contrast paints was a bit high. I did not think that was controversial!
I don't think it is either. They certainly ain't cheap, usefulness notwithstanding.
Then again, that could be GW's motto.
I think by it got such a response is because early in the thread lots of painters claimed the same and fell very short on the delivery. People have polarized on which side they are on and are still very feisty about their beliefs.
Obispudkenobi wrote: Alot of Indies are getting short changed by GW supply chain, they can't produce stuff fast enough, they need to take the foot off the gas a bit.
My flgs had all the colours on release including the ones GW said were late, I know because I bought £150 worth , I know they had a few large orders and still had full racks, this included both sprays and the undercoat pots.
I think you are right about Element, many new releases like gloomspite have sold out very very quickly compared to other retailers at the same price. Could be a cash flow issue ? They seem to have poor availability and I often end up ordering elsewhere to get everything in one go. I also don't go to them for preorders now as too often they sell out, and my other three options don't sell out as fast.
OPULENCE wrote: I finally picked some up and I am happy with what they can do - Guilliman flesh is particularly fantastic. I bought them from my local GW and the staffer told me it was their best June sales ever as the new paint range had outsold the 8th edition launch in 2017.
I can well believe it. Element Games has just emailed me to inform me the outstanding part of my order (I ordered the Contrast paints bundle) is delayed again. This includes the white, black and a couple of blues. It seems they are fabulously popular right now.
edit: Should be clear, I am in no way having a go at Element Games - they are consistently superb whenever I use them but it just goes to show, if they are having trouble stocking the most popular colours, it gives you some indication of demand right now - unless GW are deliberately restricting supply to inflate demand a la Nintendo but that seems a wee bit tinfoil hat to be true.
Not restricting supply in general to create scarcity, but I am convinced at this point that they're actively screwing with Element and Wayland. If you want new releases on time, try Firestorm Games - they had 100+ of every bottle except the Black on release day.
It might also be that Element and Wayland simply have bigger customer bases and thus whilst they get a similar allocation of stock, they burn through it so much faster.
Also from what I can tell everyone, including Firestorm, are out of stock on the black. Honestly this is simply because everyone is buying contrast paint, once the mania eases off I'm sure the stocks will replenish at a more sane rate, with GW likely able to shift production so that less popular colours are made less and more popular ones made more. Chances are some of the colours will eventually steady out to low demand whilst ones like black and white will remain constantly strong in demand, just within GW's manufacture and supply range.
oni wrote: Are there any Contrast videos of a Cadian guardsman? I've been looking, but cannot find one in the traditional Cadian color scheme.
I have an AM army all still in boxes and I'm thinking that I could crank them out quickly as they would be quick and easy with Contrast paint.
I don't think there's a video, but the way to go(from my experience playing around with the paints) would be:
-Wraithbone basecoat
-Militarum Green armor
-Aggaros Dune for the fatigues
That looks like this:
Spoiler:
(except for not being a traitor and all )
I appreciate the recipe and the picture. Did you by chance try Skeleton Horde for the battle fatigues on any of your models?
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
This guy's method is great if you already have the materials, or were already planning to buy the materials, or if you genuinely enjoy experimenting and messing about with paints.
If your objective is to paint some models, I'd say ~4 quid a pot from a discounter is, if not a fair price, then at least a tolerable one given what you're getting.
Not that there's anything wrong with someone who was unaware of a previous version of the exact same thing figuring it out independantly. It's not complete sorcery, after all...
Gerinako wrote: I told element games to dispatch mine once they had everything in stock. My account says expected tomorrow. I'm highly doubtful though!
It allowed me time to finish my current painting project - now I'm building some warhammer conquest subs.
I'm hoping it gets here within 1-2 weeks though as I'll be absolutely ready to move on to painting again soon
I wouldn’t be that optimist with Element games as preorders made on the first day are still outstanding. I’m still waiting for my final contrast paint from them after ordering the entire collection 2 minutes after it went up on preorder day (I actually made the effort to order whilst running a marathon as knew demand would be high). Not had any email updates since around the initial release date but did receive all my paints except black about 3 weeks after I ordered. Thankfully I managed to pick up a black elsewhere as was required for more or less everything I wanted to try Contrast on.
Element Games stock expected date seems to be a bit wonky recently. One of my other orders is about a month old with expected delivery date of three weeks ago.
On pre-release morning, I added all the colours I wanted to my GW webstore cart, except 1 which was out of stock already.
I have since managed to add that 1, but the cart showed others out of stock.
There's only 11 items in that basket.
I have checked twice each day since then, and so far, there hasn't been a day when the entire basket has been in stock.
I wanted all the colours for a project, so I'm not buying a few and missing one or two out.
I think I'll just use normal paints and forget this expensive experiment. At least with base coats and a painted coat of dip I get the same effect and don't have to worry about going over the areas I'm painting as normal paint will allow me to make corrections that contrast won't without rebase coating sections.
Gerinako wrote: I told element games to dispatch mine once they had everything in stock. My account says expected tomorrow. I'm highly doubtful though!
It allowed me time to finish my current painting project - now I'm building some warhammer conquest subs.
I'm hoping it gets here within 1-2 weeks though as I'll be absolutely ready to move on to painting again soon
I wouldn’t be that optimist with Element games as preorders made on the first day are still outstanding. I’m still waiting for my final contrast paint from them after ordering the entire collection 2 minutes after it went up on preorder day (I actually made the effort to order whilst running a marathon as knew demand would be high). Not had any email updates since around the initial release date but did receive all my paints except black about 3 weeks after I ordered. Thankfully I managed to pick up a black elsewhere as was required for more or less everything I wanted to try Contrast on.
Element Games stock expected date seems to be a bit wonky recently. One of my other orders is about a month old with expected delivery date of three weeks ago.
Thanks for the heads up - just mailed them to dispatch to me whatever they've got.
"Here, I have made my own version, it's functionally similar, and all you need to do is drop a couple of hundred quid in one go on various acrylic inks and additives and then spend hours experimenting and colour mixing."
This guy's method is great if you already have the materials, or were already planning to buy the materials, or if you genuinely enjoy experimenting and messing about with paints.
If your objective is to paint some models, I'd say ~4 quid a pot from a discounter is, if not a fair price, then at least a tolerable one given what you're getting.
Not that there's anything wrong with someone who was unaware of a previous version of the exact same thing figuring it out independantly. It's not complete sorcery, after all...
Yeah, I've been using Les Bursley's recipes pretty much since I read them here when I started, and have referenced them here many times. I've found the washes I've made with those recipes are good, but not as good as commercial products. They are, however, very cheap. I don't know where "a couple of hundred quid" came from, lol - I think I spent about $30 or $40 tops and still have enough to make tons of wash a decade later. All I ever have to reload is the matte medium - the inks and flow aid go a long way.
Where those really shine are when you are using a lot of wash - specifically basing and terrain, or really large models. I still use Army Painter and GWS washes for minis, I don't think they can be beat, but when I have to washGodzilla or a game board or game mat, I'm not using 2 or 3 whole bottles of commercial wash to do it when I can mix up a batch of "almost as good" for about 20 cents in materials I already have on hand. Another tool in the arsenal, not a replacement.
Yeah. I use a lot of commercial washes, but when I need a non-standard colour, or a lot of wash for a large model, or anything like that - off to my pre-mixed dropper bottles of medium that are waiting to be loaded with inks.
It's just the excitement about that dude's video made me chuckle, since he's using much the same formula that Les posted here (of all places) a decade ago...
Black Templar, Contrast Medium, Magos Purple, Apothecary White, Volopus Pink, Ultramarines Blue, Cygor Brown, and Talassar Blue
These are the ones that have caused a delay in my order. Rest dispatched
Funnily enough 4 of those I'm keen to try out I can experiment with the colours I'm not bothered about though to ensure I get contrast flow right though so not the end of the world.
The White isn’t excellent, I tried something new this morning with my rustoleum 2x white primer, a wash of agrax, a wash of Nuln oil and then apothecary white over the top to get my Orc bosses animal hide shoulder pad. I know it’s not the best, but well above my usual level of painting.
Strangely, I find Apothecary White to work worse with tons of texture vs flatter surfaces. I painted a fire warrior and a yeti, and I couldn’t get the yeti to look good.
Tyranid Horde wrote: You're honestly just better off going to a local store at this point.
If only I still had one. It shut down.
I could catch an hour long bus ride to the nearest one, and an hour back, and wait for buses. And take a day as annual leave as that GW shuts on my days off work.
So, lose a day of my hols, pay £10 in bus fairs and 2+ hours travel?
There's a reason some of us in the UK still use the GW webstore - just a shame it's always out of stock and GW customer service suggest going to a local store. Meh.
I was at Warhammer World on release day, got there in the morning but they had all sold out of the Black and the contrast medium that I wanted but got the last white and magos purple. Not used them yet as I need the black and medium.
Finally tried it out last night and its not bad at all.
10 kalabites coated in Akhelian Green and looking decent after drying over night( probably dried out within an hour, but I wasn't timing it ). Could do more on them but will just clean up the bases with black and will probably start gaming with them as is. Might paint the shoulder pads and flesh when I get time, but yeah its good.
Tyranid Horde wrote: You're honestly just better off going to a local store at this point.
If only I still had one. It shut down.
I could catch an hour long bus ride to the nearest one, and an hour back, and wait for buses. And take a day as annual leave as that GW shuts on my days off work.
So, lose a day of my hols, pay £10 in bus fairs and 2+ hours travel?
There's a reason some of us in the UK still use the GW webstore - just a shame it's always out of stock and GW customer service suggest going to a local store. Meh.
Forget everything else, a return bus ticket is £10!?
Tyranid Horde wrote: You're honestly just better off going to a local store at this point.
If only I still had one. It shut down.
I could catch an hour long bus ride to the nearest one, and an hour back, and wait for buses. And take a day as annual leave as that GW shuts on my days off work.
So, lose a day of my hols, pay £10 in bus fairs and 2+ hours travel?
There's a reason some of us in the UK still use the GW webstore - just a shame it's always out of stock and GW customer service suggest going to a local store. Meh.
Forget everything else, a return bus ticket is £10!?
Welcome to the UK - outside of major urban areas like London the cost of public transport isn't that attractive. An hour long train trip return for me last I took a trip was £14 and they've had several price rises since then and now its up to £16.60. And that's off-peak, peak hours its £19.40 That's a nice chunk of cash and honestly takes longer than if one took a car to travel to the same destination.
Tyranid Horde wrote: You're honestly just better off going to a local store at this point.
If only I still had one. It shut down.
I could catch an hour long bus ride to the nearest one, and an hour back, and wait for buses. And take a day as annual leave as that GW shuts on my days off work.
So, lose a day of my hols, pay £10 in bus fairs and 2+ hours travel?
There's a reason some of us in the UK still use the GW webstore - just a shame it's always out of stock and GW customer service suggest going to a local store. Meh.
Forget everything else, a return bus ticket is £10!?
Rural bus companies like to gouge their vict… er, customers but hard. Apparently it’s a problem of “low use” or something.
Londoners get too used to buses being £1.50/hr or capped to £3.50/day.
kestral wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but has it been established that you need to use the actual GW spray as opposed to any random primer?
No, you don't need to use the new primers. Note however that the primer does need to be smooth (white paints tend to be a bit on the rough side due to the pigments). Also note that the color of the primer can affect the end product (a white, cool off-white or a warm off-white primer will all have subtle differences on the end result).
I am loving the reds/blues and greens over Retributor Primer.
I'm not totally enamored with the coverage of Contrast on some colours on Wraithbone/Grey Seer though - I tend to go over it with a second thinned coat
Going to have to experiment more maybe/watch some videos
Gerinako wrote: I am loving the reds/blues and greens over Retributor Primer.
I'm not totally enamored with the coverage of Contrast on some colours on Wraithbone/Grey Seer though - I tend to go over it with a second thinned coat
You could go with slightly darker base colors using Krylon or Rustoleum satin paints. I think there is large amounts of potential using slightly darker base colors that has not been explored yet.
I agree that it seems to work great as a shader with more base coverage.
Going to a very light version of a colour (almost a pastel?) and hitting it with the contrast paint looks quite nice.
This stuff seems to stay fairly wet a bit longer and lets the pigment "settle" slowly for a nice overall effect.
It lends a "richer" look to me but you better not be in a hurry.
It is like a mix of "slow dry/retarder" with some "Flow-aid", "Matt-medium" and acrylic inks.
What I like most with this is you can target an area and it really does not flow anywhere: it stays where painted and does not run (much).
I can be pretty brave touching up spots on an almost completed model and know it will not flow off somewhere.
So, has there been any word when GW are going to sort out the supply issues with these? I've been sitting here waiting to grab the complete range and there are still multiple colours that third parties are unable to order more of.
According to what head office is telling the GW store managers who are clamouring for more stock to sell, they are producing and shipping it at maximum capacity
so unless demand slows down I don't see any changes in the short term
Aeneades wrote: I’m still waiting for the Black from the complete bundle I ordered within 5 minutes of going live on Element Games.
Same here. I'm waiting on about 10 colours from Element Games to complete my order. The order history page says they are expected to ship every Friday and then every Friday, it changes to the next week and so forth.
Firestorm games got a load of the black in - so I dropped my one remaining part of an Element Games order and got it from Firestorm. I still got a large chunk from Element, but was open to shopping around for the rare black.
I managed to pick up a black from Firestorm games a couple of weeks after release, thankfully. Have left my order outstanding with Element as know I will get through Black quite quickly and because I am interested to know when it finally does ship.
I just spoiled half a bottle of Snakebite Leather. Half my hand was brown and it had around 10 minutes to dry while I cleaned the desk. A few minutes of rubbing under running water and it was clean again.
Casualty wrote: Here's a basic dumbass question - has anybody found these paints particularly difficult to get off your own skin afterwards?
Not a big deal, just a heads up that I had a big splodge of beautifully defined plaguebearer flesh on my hand for days
That’s just papa nurgles blessing
Blessed indeed.
I could see people looking at it in meetings. I don't know if I should be glad or not that nobody actually said anything though...
Automatically Appended Next Post: So apparently I decided to REALLY put this to the test, because I've just spilled the most of a pot of Gryph Hound Orange all over my lap. Can confirm that while most of it has scrubbed off, there's a definite orange staining remaining to enliven my inner thighs.
Anyone having issues with the contrast paint rubbing off? The pointed edges of my model from just handling while painting i have been noticing the contrast paint rubs off. I have never had this problem with any other paint before.
Picked up a couple pots of black today.. planning to use for my marines. Does anyone know if there's any samples of what minis like with black over a silvery metal base coat? searched and didn't see anything but probably missed it. I saw examples with white and some other base colors, but haven't seen silver. I kinda want to see if I can go for a blackened metal wrought iron kinda look.
Necros wrote: Picked up a couple pots of black today.. planning to use for my marines. Does anyone know if there's any samples of what minis like with black over a silvery metal base coat? searched and didn't see anything but probably missed it. I saw examples with white and some other base colors, but haven't seen silver. I kinda want to see if I can go for a blackened metal wrought iron kinda look.
angel of death 007 wrote: Anyone having issues with the contrast paint rubbing off? The pointed edges of my model from just handling while painting i have been noticing the contrast paint rubs off. I have never had this problem with any other paint before.
Just wondered if anyone else encountered this.
Its a known issue due to the new medium and the fact that the edges only have one thin paint layer on them so you need to protect with varnish.
Something to note. Seems one is better off being careful with the spray primer. Too much of it and the damn paint seems to be like water on oil. Can get it work eventually but takes couple extra go's at it.
And the spray bottles have rather strong burst...ugh.
angel of death 007 wrote: Anyone having issues with the contrast paint rubbing off? The pointed edges of my model from just handling while painting i have been noticing the contrast paint rubs off. I have never had this problem with any other paint before.
Just wondered if anyone else encountered this.
Yeah, I have. I've taken to either/both of using a painting handle when I'm using a lot of it, or doing "mid-work" spray varnishings, depending on the whats and how muches of the model, the estimated touchings going forward and so forth.
Dispatch date of my remaining paints from Element Games has slipped by another week again so I have reluctantly asked for a refund of the outstanding amount.
Guess I'll be going to Firestorm Games who seem to have all the paints in stock...
Has there been any advanced contrast videos where people have got better effects using medium and that. All the videos i have seen from contrast paints were very lackluster. They remind me almost of dying an easter egg.
I tried the recipe for home made contrast from Goober town. Equal amounts medium and ink with flow aid. Way too strong with my dealer rowny inks. One third ink was better.
DIYing these is not that straightforward but it only took one experiment to figure out my set of inks is pretty strong and I needed to adjust.
angel of death 007 wrote: Has there been any advanced contrast videos where people have got better effects using medium and that. All the videos i have seen from contrast paints were very lackluster. They remind me almost of dying an easter egg.
Best Contrast video I've seen is from GMG where he paints a complete nurgle model start to finish using the contrast paints as-intended as well as using them for some glaze glaze techniques and also using non-contrast paints with some traditional layering techniques for highlights. Whole model from primed to complete in about 50 minutes at a fairly high tabletop standard
filbert wrote: Dispatch date of my remaining paints from Element Games has slipped by another week again so I have reluctantly asked for a refund of the outstanding amount.
Guess I'll be going to Firestorm Games who seem to have all the paints in stock...
I love Element, but I've had a LOT of issues with slipping dispatch dates over the last year.
filbert wrote: Dispatch date of my remaining paints from Element Games has slipped by another week again so I have reluctantly asked for a refund of the outstanding amount.
Guess I'll be going to Firestorm Games who seem to have all the paints in stock...
I love Element, but I've had a LOT of issues with slipping dispatch dates over the last year.
To be fair, this is the only issue I have *ever* had with them in many years of buying from them. They are normally solidly reliable and prompt. I think this time they just got swamped with pre-orders for the new paints (pretty much like every other retailer I guess) and rather than turn orders down, they kept taking the pre-orders and hoping GW would produce enough to fulfill the backlog - clearly this isn't happening or at least, not happening nearly quickly enough or in enough volumes; I mean, I've been waiting well over a month and a half now for the remaining portion of my order.
I stopped using Element Games about a year a go I think as the prices were slowly increasing above the competition and had problems getting items in. I normally use Goblin Gaming atm but I just ordered a black and medium that I've been missing (and using that as an excuse to not get painting!) from Firestorm and they have loads apparently!
angel of death 007 wrote: Has there been any advanced contrast videos where people have got better effects using medium and that. All the videos i have seen from contrast paints were very lackluster. They remind me almost of dying an easter egg.
Best Contrast video I've seen is from GMG where he paints a complete nurgle model start to finish using the contrast paints as-intended as well as using them for some glaze glaze techniques and also using non-contrast paints with some traditional layering techniques for highlights. Whole model from primed to complete in about 50 minutes at a fairly high tabletop standard
Definately one of the better contrast paint videos i have seen. I like the blocking of colors under it. I think combining this with some Zenithal basecoat for larger heavy contrast areas would really start to be more useful. Thanks for the share, not sure how I missed this one.
Naturally, just before Contrast was announced I started picking up colored brush-on primers then washing them with Army Painter Inks, for my tabletop miniatures.
Results are good and I don't have to learn anything new. While I eventually picked up several colors, I didn't feel a need to do it all at once, and the only unusual color I had was brown. At least until I need to reach free shipping.
My old metallic acrylics are terrible, so thanks for the recommendation, Gerinako!
ced1106 wrote: Naturally, just before Contrast was announced I started picking up colored brush-on primers then washing them with Army Painter Inks, for my tabletop miniatures.
Results are good and I don't have to learn anything new. While I eventually picked up several colors, I didn't feel a need to do it all at once, and the only unusual color I had was brown. At least until I need to reach free shipping.
My old metallic acrylics are terrible, so thanks for the recommendation, Gerinako!
Gold Underlay, Drybrush Silver, Flesh Tearer Red on top
Since that photo I've done further edge highlighting by going on the edges with a thin brush and Runefang Steel and adding a dabble of Blood angel red over the top of it
Desided to use the wraith bone primer for the first time today, is it just me or does it smell like catpiss?????????
Shure rattlecan paint smell, but they ususaly smell "paint", not catpiss. (and no, there is no cats in my apartment block)
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