New contrast base colors bottles both out of stock.
Wraithbone
Gray Seer
Contrast paints out of stock:
White
Darkoath Flesh
Black Templar
Contrast paints not available:
Skeleton
Iyanden Yellow
Gryph-Hound Orange
Blood Angel Red
Flesh Tearer Red
Magos Purple
Aethermatic Blue
Plaguebearer Flesh
Warp Lightning
Ork Flesh
Wyldwood
Guilliman Flesh
Snakebite Leather
Basillicum Grey
So 19 out of 36 colors not available on the first day to order. Perhaps they should have delayed the release until they actually had stuff in stock.
The line is definitely NOT "Battle Ready". Not much point in ordering if I can't get the colors I actually want.
Does anyone know if Vallejo do a brush primer in the same colour as the new GW spray cans? I have a bunch of reaper bones to do, and don't want to risk spraying them with an unknown rattle can, but equally don't want to spend a chunk on a primer shade I can get cheaper in as good quality.
timd wrote: And with the correct number of Battle Ready paints in the cart its not giving any discount...
T
Which paints are you trying to get, and are they all in the list that was in the Terms and Conditions part (and are you on the US site)?
Anyway, yeah, GW failed big time on meeting demand for this product. I'm lucky, after seeing things already going out of stock on the UK preorders, I was at my computer at 12PM refreshing the page until they were up on the US site and grabbed the stuff I wanted.
timd wrote: And with the correct number of Battle Ready paints in the cart its not giving any discount...
T
Which paints are you trying to get, and are they all in the list that was in the Terms and Conditions part (and are you on the US site)?
Anyway, yeah, GW failed big time on meeting demand for this product. I'm lucky, after seeing things already going out of stock on the UK preorders, I was at my computer at 12PM refreshing the page until they were up on the US site and grabbed the stuff I wanted.
Man am I happy I gave a list to my FLGS to hold all the stuff I wanted in the new range last week(I wanted about half the Constrast paints and both sprays, along with a few layers). He said he'd be getting a good number in and would set the stuff on my list aside. Since I won't be able to get there on release day due to work, I'm glad I did or there might be nothing to pick up.
I knew this was going to be popular, but not nearly to this extent.
as others noted, this stuff won't just be of use to GW game players but is proably a gamer changer for everything else. folks wanting to paint d&d minis etc will be intreasted in this
zend wrote: Any examples of the white contrast paint?
I have no pics to show this but I will say this. Apothecary White against Gray Seer basically does nothing, against Wraithbone you get some gray shadowing. Highlight with some White Scars and you should be golden.
Gray Seer makes a great basecoat for Space Sharks imo.
I went and tried the Contrast paints prior to going to work. I only had a few minutes to try, but I was decently pleased with the results. I was a little rushed, so results weren't ideal, but most of what I got was quite good. The big flat areas definitely need a little more care. But overall, quite good. I am not liking Black Templar as much as I thought I would. I will probably be mixing Contrast and regular paints. Likely using Eshin Grey and Leadbelcher for my boltguns/weapons and coat the entire item in Nuln Oil. Otherwise, most everything else looked good.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I went and tried the Contrast paints prior to going to work. I only had a few minutes to try, but I was decently pleased with the results. I was a little rushed, so results weren't ideal, but most of what I got was quite good. The big flat areas definitely need a little more care. But overall, quite good. I am not liking Black Templar as much as I thought I would. I will probably be mixing Contrast and regular paints. Likely using Eshin Grey and Leadbelcher for my boltguns/weapons and coat the entire item in Nuln Oil. Otherwise, most everything else looked good.
I've seen some examples of the black that look prety good and others that look awful. The black seems to needs to be played with more when you apply it. To much and the effect is lost, to little the effect looks bad. It also really needs a edge highlight to make the black pop at the end. It doesn't feel as rooty tooty point and shooty to apply like the other colours.
I think the being thing about the black for alot of people, will be it's use as a panel liner on tanks. It doesn't seem as fussy when used this way.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I went and tried the Contrast paints prior to going to work. I only had a few minutes to try, but I was decently pleased with the results. I was a little rushed, so results weren't ideal, but most of what I got was quite good. The big flat areas definitely need a little more care. But overall, quite good. I am not liking Black Templar as much as I thought I would. I will probably be mixing Contrast and regular paints. Likely using Eshin Grey and Leadbelcher for my boltguns/weapons and coat the entire item in Nuln Oil. Otherwise, most everything else looked good.
I've seen some examples of the black that look prety good and others that look awful. The black seems to needs to be played with more when you apply it. To much and the effect is lost, to little the effect looks bad. It also really needs a edge highlight to make the black pop at the end. It doesn't feel as rooty tooty point and shooty to apply like the other colours.
I think the being thing about the black for alot of people, will be it's use as a panel liner on tanks. It doesn't seem as fussy when used this way.
It just went on way too light for my liking. It could be that the pot needed more shaking. I don't know. I will get a pot, but I won't be heartbroken if I have to do something different for my black than that. The Blood Angels Red seemed like it was a little too orange, but not bad.
If Black Templar functions like it was for me, it might work really well for darkening jet engines and whatnot. I only had very limited play time with it. And a second coat likely would solve the issue.
zend wrote: Any examples of the white contrast paint?
I have no pics to show this but I will say this. Apothecary White against Gray Seer basically does nothing, against Wraithbone you get some gray shadowing. Highlight with some White Scars and you should be golden
I can second this, against Grey Seer it's all but invisible and with Wraithbone you can see it, but it doesn't look particularly "white" there. I think it'd work best against a pure white basecoat.
Tested some out yesterday in store and the staff gave a good bit of advice on these paints and thats shake them really really well before use, something to do with the large amout of pigment in them.
As to results they are quick and will be another paint in the arsenal. They do not (to me) paint in the same way as others and flow differently than the current paints so application will be different than bases and even washes, over all i like them.
As to shortages there's potentially millions of hobbyists around the world and a lot of them (majority?) Will be looking/buying these at release but no one really knows how many people paint minitures from various systems and company's as i can see those using mantic/hoards etc wanting to try these as well. Give it a couple of weeks and the sales level will stabilize.
Wow seeing those on the bases is actually is super helpful for picking my army colors!
Anyone think that maybe the black templar contrast would look better with a second coat? I'm really torn right now on whether or not to buy it or just keep use abbadon black for my black robes on the gloomspite gitz. (My original intention was to do this entire army in contrast paints, even to the point of the using the grey for non-metalic metal effects)
The Corax White stuff *does* look a bit flatter with less contrast - or is that just my phone screen plus sunlight? But it really looks like the special primers make the paint stick less to raised edges and stuff. So maybe a coat of varnish after priming with non-Contrast primers or after zenithal lighting would actually improve the experimentations we've seen on youtube so far.
I really should've web ordered from the GW site yesterday morning. I get the feeling that my independent store will get nothing at all at first and the GWs I'm closest to tend to be picked clean by the regulars by the time I get there.
Seeing that Carnosaurus makes me want to just knock out all the Sauri and Skinks I have from the old 5th ed starter (and a failed attempt to muster the willpower to resculpt weedy dudes into monstrous BB linesauriers) as a practice run. Maybe add a SC (minus Carni) and gift it all to my nephews to build dioramas with their Lego castles and stuff. I might actually build and paint the cavalry instead of literally throwing them away if I had to spend more than 5 minutes on each...they're so ugly even the GWSC page doesn't show them outside the group picture!
The "base chart" is super useful indeed, much better than space marine backpack pictures that were used on Citadel Paint app for the main range.
I can instantly see some colours that are must-have. Gryph-charger grey matches Shadespire boards perfectly and Space Wolves grey looks awesome for basing as well. Surprisingly, Skeleton horde looks better on Grey seer than Wraithbone undercoat.
Hi all, With the release of the new Citadel contrast paints I thought it would be a great opportunity to re visit painting non metallic metals (nmm).
I wanted to try out the new contrast colours and apply them to this technique to see what results I could achieve.
With this in mind I picked a suitable miniature which was a Stormcast Liberator and undercoated it with the new wraithbone spray.
All contrast paints where thinned with the new contrast medium during this process.
Here are the stages I did when painting-
1. Wraithbone spray
2. Nazdreg yellow
3. Snakebite leather
4. Fyreslayer flesh
5. Cygor brown
6. Black templar
7. Iyanden yellow glaze all over
8. Wraithbone base paint highlight
9. Pure white highlight
You can see that most of the technique involves a lot of glazing the colours over each other. Rather than highlighting in stages as you would normally paint this involves working backwards essentially. So starting with larger areas of lighter colours and then shading down with less paint.
As with all nmm painting the real trick is when you add those final white highlights and hot spots to trick the eye.
I’m pretty happy with the test result and compared to my other nmm painting it was much quicker although a little messier if I’m honest but I’m sure with more practice with the paints this will improve.
Cheers! Daz
I think contrast is going to be something where you need a just after application shot as well as the final dried version as how much you put on seems so significant
I tried them out yesterday and I managed to get enough time to play around with them (about an hour and a half). Tried out some glazing and blending on the palette and on the model I used and was pretty happy with the results.
For panel areas you do need to babysit the paint so it settles correctly and I did two coats instead of one to manage the paint and increase the intensity when I was done with the first coat. I do like how well the paint can be tinted, even when putting light over dark colours, which they say not to do. I did that on the base and the hammer and got a pretty pleasing result on my Sequitor test model.
The high pigmentation has serious drawbacks in that the paint separates like mad in the pot and in some cases on the palette. I realise all paints separate but it happens in almost a minute in some cases.
Here's what I managed to do in between chat and having to stand because there were no chairs in the shop to help brace myself (the photos are larger in the gallery):
zend wrote: Any examples of the white contrast paint?
I have no pics to show this but I will say this. Apothecary White against Gray Seer basically does nothing, against Wraithbone you get some gray shadowing. Highlight with some White Scars and you should be golden.
Gray Seer makes a great basecoat for Space Sharks imo.
Ultramarines Blue looks...weird
BOLS did a video with both Apothecary White and Talassar Blue on Wraithbone white.
Green looks like Terradon Turquoise
Gold looks like Iyandean Yellow
The top-left looks like maybe Snakebite Leather
Bottom left might be Gore grunta. There's a surprising amount of Browns.
Blue is Talasar Blue (hello Tsons)
I know a fair few of us wondered about these over metallic colours, so ウォーハンマーストア横浜 on facebook posted these over leadbelcher
I was just wondering about that yesterday as well. Pete the Wargamer has a video as well on the subject but using an airbrush and contrast paint. I don't know why but I was expecting more of a metallic effect. I was somewhat unrealistically hoping that you could get a metallic tinge HH UM paint scheme in just two steps (silver primer, contrast base coat) as opposed to using a metallic paint with subsequent highlights and washes.
So people complain paint is useless, bad etc. Then it's sold out in droves and people complain about that. If they didn't sold likely would hear "told it's bad". Gw can't win
Seems to be doing pretty well. Good thing i'll have month holiday in japan so lack of stock is not a worry for me.
Couple intnresting colours on the base pictures so i'll store those for future use. Def giving some a try
I know a fair few of us wondered about these over metallic colours, so ウォーハンマーストア横浜 on facebook posted these over leadbelcher
This turquoise/teal Stormcast Eternal that we've seen before...
Spoiler:
... Duncan mentioned on the Twitch feed Wednesday that it's actually Talassar Blue (roughly equivalent to Lothern Blue) over a Retributor Armour base coat. It will be interesting to see what kind of effects occur over the other metallic paints than just silver.
You know, what I'm really interested to see is a direct comparison of what the Contrast looks like over the "special" primers compared to a more traditional matt-drying spray primer with a similar value & tone.
If I can just grab Grey Seer & Mechanicus Standard/Wraithbone & Zandri Dust and have it just work properly, great, but if I'm going to have to fanny about with a satin varnish over the darker colour to make the Contrast flow right, then you'd be as well looking for cheaper sprays with the right colours and then just hitting the whole thing with a satin coat when it's done.
From what I've hear from those that have used it over GW white it doesn't work/flow as well as over the 2 new primers, but it does work to some extent,
so it's probably going to be something you've got to try yourself
(I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work over hand brushed primers as I bet the coverage & surface are a lot less smooth than an rattlecan/airbrush)
Completely agree with that Orlando, lots of experimentation is needed. What I do seem to notice from the basing example it is clear that there are some colours that are far more useful than others. For example Ultramarines blue just seems like the wrong colour, just too dark for what most would associate with Ultramarines. Then again I think Contrast is really not best used on Space Marines, just too many flat panels for pooling.
I think it'll work fine on Marines, it'll just need a bit more care than otherwise, just as when applying a wash.
I'm starting to think that for my planned zenithal approach(medium colour, off-white like the GW paints, drybrush of pure white to add punch to the edges) it might be best to just satin coat the whole thing prior to the Contrast application.
The question then becomes - are there any affordable rattlecans out there that are approximate matches for the Contrast sprays and Zandri Dust(I think Army Painter Uniform Grey looks like a good colour for pairing with Grey Seer), and is there a good satin varnish spray? Ideally you'd want one that goes down quite thin.
I've got plenty of matte and gloss rattlecans, but no satin since GW changed their varnish to be more matte.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: From what I've hear from those that have used it over GW white it doesn't work/flow as well as over the 2 new primers, but it does work to some extent,
so it's probably going to be something you've got to try yourself
(I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't work over hand brushed primers as I bet the coverage & surface are a lot less smooth than an rattlecan/airbrush)
The Stormcast sprue showing the effect over silver looks like it's done over a brushed-on base coat.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Stormcast sprue showing the effect over silver looks like it's done over a brushed-on base coat.
It is definitely a brushed on base coat, you can see the brush strokes for it on the sprue itself. Looking over the samples of different colors, I believe it was brushed on Gray Seer Base, most likely to demonstrate brush on base and then contrast together.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Stormcast sprue showing the effect over silver looks like it's done over a brushed-on base coat.
It is definitely a brushed on base coat, you can see the brush strokes for it on the sprue itself. Looking over the samples of different colors, I believe it was brushed on Gray Seer Base, most likely to demonstrate brush on base and then contrast together.
The sprue was likely sprayed with Leadbelcher and then the Contrast stuff was applied over top of it.
Experimented with Contrast this weekend. Maybe I just need more practice but pooling seems to be a big problem.
Lost the sharp ridges on shoulderpads, lost the depth of the eye sockets on a few skulls, had a few bolters lose their lines. The dark splotches on flat surfaces is the hardest part, it doesn't feel like there's a good way to smooth the paint once it's on the model.
Would love to see some tutorials on how to deal with this. Not sure I have it in me to continue trial and error.
The white is like the one colour I want to get for sure. All the local stores that stock GW as well as the nearest GW and GW's online store all seem to be out already.
eddieazrael wrote:Does anyone know if Vallejo do a brush primer in the same colour as the new GW spray cans? I have a bunch of reaper bones to do, and don't want to risk spraying them with an unknown rattle can, but equally don't want to spend a chunk on a primer shade I can get cheaper in as good quality.
Vallejo surface primer grey is very close to the grey seer.
tneva82 wrote:So people complain paint is useless, bad etc. Then it's sold out in droves and people complain about that. If they didn't sold likely would hear "told it's bad". Gw can't win
It's like it's different people all saying different things or something.
techsoldaten wrote: Experimented with Contrast this weekend. Maybe I just need more practice but pooling seems to be a big problem.
Lost the sharp ridges on shoulderpads, lost the depth of the eye sockets on a few skulls, had a few bolters lose their lines. The dark splotches on flat surfaces is the hardest part, it doesn't feel like there's a good way to smooth the paint once it's on the model.
Would love to see some tutorials on how to deal with this. Not sure I have it in me to continue trial and error.
I'd probably suggest keeping the amount on your brush quite low and then drag it towards the recesses. Once you have the colour on the model then go over the shadowed areas again to give some more depth.
It's basically a wash + base combined. If you are overly generous with a wash then it will pool too - so use the same techniques to remove the pooling.
That white is nice. I have it in my order, for my world eaters. I think the contrast will need pushing more, taking the shadows deeper and taking it to crisp white high points, but it looks like a decent start.
Gmg did a video covering (pun intended) contrast paints over a metallic undercoat in response to questions (mine?) yesterday. I'm not personally impressed with the results and won't be using the technique.
I looked at ordering them but they were sold out on the very first day. Just like all of GW's releases are.
If i was a stock holder and I saw how they were handling things I would be pissed. They have been throwing the oppertunity for more revenue down the road, pretty much for the past year. Not sure if they don't know how to property prepare, can't get stock, or grossly underestimate the want but any way about it if I owned stock and I seen them limiting the potential on every release I would be asking questions at the share holders meetings.
Put in preorders for the red, and then the black, grey, and white. None of the other colors immediately appear to do that much more than what I get out of the shades.
angel of death 007 wrote: I looked at ordering them but they were sold out on the very first day. Just like all of GW's releases are.
If i was a stock holder and I saw how they were handling things I would be pissed. They have been throwing the oppertunity for more revenue down the road, pretty much for the past year. Not sure if they don't know how to property prepare, can't get stock, or grossly underestimate the want but any way about it if I owned stock and I seen them limiting the potential on every release I would be asking questions at the share holders meetings.
Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
Models? Yep. Good luck getting those anywhere else, other than Chinacast. Which remains thoroughly frowned upon. And occasionally, the subject of a drive-by tutting!
Wow… the new Contrast paint has proven so popular that some of the new colours have already sold out over on games-workshop.com.
We knew from the get-go that Contrast was going to be popular, and despite making oodles* and oodles of it, it seems we still underestimated just how excited you were at the prospect of purging your sprue-grey legions with the help of this new paint.
The good news is that even as we write this, vast quantities of Contrast paint are on their way to stores around the world. Come next weekend, your local Warhammer, Games Workshop or independent hobby store will have plenty of every colour on its shelves. Though judging by this weekend, we’d suggest you get there early!
Contrast paint is bottled up right here at Warhammer HQ in Nottingham, and our crack team of pigmenticians** are already making more – so we expect to have all the paints back in stock on Games-Workshop.com before you know it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
Do you honestly think people who want contrast paints will put in hours of effort doing research to be able to pull off a similar effect because they couldn't get all the contrast paints they wanted on the first production? Because I think you are going to be in a minority on that one.
Further do you think alternative companies are going to be able to produce a similar product before GW can do a second production? Do you think they will be able to establish their potential product like GW already has before GW does a second production? Because I don't think so.
Maybe, just maybe, things like new paint selling out is a generally acceptable event for people and they will just get the things they want on the second go.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
Come on, there is no way you're going to mcgyver out their process before they simply produce more. Its totally reasonable that people can wait for more product.
To think it's going to be easy to mimic it feels like hubris as if it were so easy then this type of paint wouldnt be new. You need the chemical composition to figure out the formula.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
It always amazes me the length people will go to in the pursuit of copying the amazing effort GW put in while not paying GW for doing it.
Plus the point is that "competitor" brands won't be GW. GW is firmly leading the hobby for a ton of people. I find that t pretty entertaining that detractors of GW keep saying contrast is so easy to make, like dip etc But, if it's that easy, why is GW first to market ?
I can guarantee that only a minority of a minority is going to be trying to mix their own using 5 ingredients rather than wait a week for GW. I suspect most GW gamers are rather loyal to the brand to be honest.
GWs big bonus is consistent supply and lots of retailers. Yep, a little t of places sold out of contrast but there are reputable retailers with some of the lines still in stock like grey seer, the sprays etc
It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
nurgle5 wrote: I've heard rumblings of contrast paint chipping on plastic miniatures, I know the paints aren't widely available yet, but has anyone experienced this?
They chipped on mine when I tried them out at warhammerfest, but I was carrying the models round loose in a cardboard tray. It dries quite thin though. I’d most likely put a varnish over them.
Kalamadea wrote: It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
They don't seem much different to the first lot of inks that GW did, those used to scratch if they were handled roughly enough. To be honest the contrast paints feel like the professional quality acrylic inks I used to use but (incredibly!) a little cheaper. The extra pigment and the flow medium will always compromise durability but a quick coat of varnish isn't much of a hardship is it?
Think of them like the technical effect paints which also require a layer of varnish. It's honestly only one further layer atop so should seal down the models well and besides there's now both a gloss and mat paint on and spray varnishes.
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
I wonder if it would work better with a primer underneath. GW have never been very good at differentiation between base coat and primer, and if this stuff chips I wonder if using a real primer first would help give it something to key too.
They mentioned it in the "Science of Contrast" article. Contrast paint dries in a layer 1/10th the thickness of the base paints, so needs a coat of varnish.
1/10th thickness shouldn't matter at all if it's properly bonding to the layer below. Every layer of paint (and varnish) is supposed to another and form a single homogeneous coat, if it's delaminating at a single layer that's a problem. Either the contrast formula itself doesn't adhere well and is fragile, or the special smoother primer isn't gripping as well as regular primer, either way is an issue. A coat of varnish will help but won't completely solve the issue as you're sealing over a fragile substrate and it's always going to be a potential point of failure.
I may be overthinking it because I work in the auto body & paint industry and we have to warranty all our paintwork for life of the vehicle, when there's an issue we spend a lot of time analyzing if it's a product failure or if it's a prep & application failure and how to resolve it
I think its just different product focus. GW isn't trying to make car paint but model paint and was going more for the quality of the paints flow rather than its resistance. Plus GW knows that if you're "serious" about paint you'll be paint/spraying a layer (at least one) of varnish over the top to seal the model anyway. So if one type of paint rubs off a bit more its not a huge issue as its not the final layer.
oh, missed that .. i don't have a store nearby these days, i'll have to wait till it's back in the web store. Bet the other online shops will be sold out too, or it'll go faster than my memory will remind me to check.
Kalamadea wrote: It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
I just realized you can use every name from the first column, and just Metal from the 2nd, and each will form a different and even-cooler-than-the-last style of head banging noise.
Decided to give it a fair crack-of-the-whip and will be pre-ordering Iyanden Yellow, Wrathbone and Greyseer on 16% discount. Got two Intercessors that need painting as Imperial Fists and yellow armour is a sod. Might fancy a Legio Gryphonicus Titan down the line too!
Kalamadea wrote: It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
Put a varnish on, and the problem goes away...
Don't we all varnish anyways?
Varnish may not help if the paint is not properly keyed to the layer below. It will still chip away, especially with matte varnish.
oni wrote: So what is the difference between Abaddon Black and the new Corvus Black? They're both Base paints and have the same description on the website.
Clearly, one is for chaos marines, and the other is for Raven Guard. You should know by now you can't use Corvus Black on chaos marines.
Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
oni wrote: So what is the difference between Abaddon Black and the new Corvus Black? They're both Base paints and have the same description on the website.
Clearly, one is for chaos marines, and the other is for Raven Guard. You should know by now you can't use Corvus Black on chaos marines.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
What’s wrong with that? No one is forcing anyone to use contrast. For those who don’t want to paint it will give less excuses for grey plastic. For those who just want a quick basic army they will get a better look with no more effort. For those who want a good result but don’t really enjoy painting it gives you better results in less time. For people who love painting it’s another tool. Lazy painters are better than hordes of grey.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
People who enjoy painting will still learn new techniques and stuff, just like they do now. People who don’t now have a new option that may help them get models painted where as before they might not have painted anything.
Plus, who cares? How other people paint doesn’t affect you in the slightest.
H.B.M.C. wrote: First I'll make my own contrast... then tomorrow, the world!!!
*lightning crashes in background*
Ya-huh...
Anyway, GW has finally revealed how they come up with their stupid paint names:
Spoiler:
I demand a colour named Incomprehensible Eggplant.
Finally, now I can up with a custom randomly generated skull skull paint scheme for the old Deathwatch Rpg randomly generated Death's Death custom chapter.
Contrast paint is not going to make anyone better...it'll make them faster. That's it. A professional painter will still make better use of Contrast paint than an 11 year old kid who's never touched a paintbrush.
To me (a founding member of the "Paint Your gak" battalion) I couldn't care less. If it means I'll see less grey plastic on the table/internet...awesome. While I absolutely expect people to paint their stuff, I don't have any expectations of quality. If you want to colour prime your marines and paint the bases brown...cool, good enough for me. I have zero expectations that anyone is going to have the desire to become a master level painter. But some tiny effort that says you vaguely give a gak about the aesthetic of this communal game is all I'm looking for.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.
If that was the case then most people would be content with just one thick coat of base colours and no regard for neatness. There would be little demand for inks, washes, shades or contrasts.
But the truth is that a fair number of painters do take pride in their work and aspire to improve for their own personal and professional reasons. Contrast paints will not make painters lazy as they are just another option available to them. Those who are going to just slap on a coat of contrast and leave it at that never had any interest in being an artist. An artist would have that interest.
"Contrast paint is not going to make anyone better...it'll make them faster." -- Elbows
This.
This is why I am going to buy a ton of Contrast. I paint at a glacial rate, and this will help to eliminate much of my procrastination. Then I can finally have a painted Seraphon force, my Space Wolves will cease being Basecoat Wolves, and my Ysian and Jutes armies will be more than just primer.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Except they're not exactly products one can buy from elsewhere.
Contrast Paints seem unique in the market. And they're getting more made.
That is the funny thing with supply and demand: people are lazy if supply is good.
When people cannot get their needed thing, they start looking for alternatives.
I am already participating on formulation discussions based on known materials:
Mat-medium
Flo-aid
Slo-dry
Acrylic pigment inks.
Distilled water
It really is just a matter of getting the proportions right, I only need to get my hands on one pot to figure it out.
Much of the shading results look like ringers for the old ink-wash techniques, it is just a shade / ink hybrid with a slo-dry to give the pigment time to settle and yet not flow everywhere.
Market can slow that tiny bit if people find other product that fills the need, it IS unique but I think reasonably easy to mimic.
They have a narrow window of time before the DIY methods are refined and then competitors get formulations out there.
It always amazes me the length people will go to in the pursuit of copying the amazing effort GW put in while not paying GW for doing it.
But didn't you know? Time is FREE!!!! UNLIMITED TIME!!!
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
And then most people will proceed to not care, since the objective of getting the models painted was achieved.
Can confirm. Once I find a painting recipe that looks halfway decent, the entire army gets done in exactly that same way with no deviation. My Sigmar army just barely scraped max points at adepticon and that's my absolute highest painting aspiration.
GW has posted a couple of tutorials on Citadel Colour where they use both the Contrast and Classic Method on the model. There is a tutorial for a Space Wolf Grey Hunter and a Celestial Vindicator Stormcast Eternal. Using the right method for each area of the model really does provide the best results.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
We must all band together to stop people painting the "wrong way".
Without pointing fingers, it would appear that "doing it right" has only resulted in some pretty mediocre results, so one wonders what the histrionics are for?
Listen, if you're worried about how this is going to produce "bad" painters, I've got news for you.
You are only competing with yourself, and your own satisfaction with the finished article is all that's important.
If your ability is currently outstripped by your aspirations, work at improving, but never hold anyone else to your own standard.
Argive wrote: Im really excited for the white over seer gray.
That solves the problem of how I'm going to paint my shadow specters!
I love that it gives the same effect as a pin was without making me pin wash anything. Give me that white in a dip and I might just do white armor space marines.
Guys I ordered a bunch of Bloodletters, and want to contrast them to speed the painting up.
Which contrast colors would you use? And not just for the flesh.
Thanks for your help
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Those guys wouldnt' be learning new techniques anyway. Hell they wouldn't even paint to any standard.
Kalamadea wrote: It's been mentioned here and there that they're more delicate than normal paints and require a coat of varnish to seal them down, which has me concerned. I'm wondering if that's an issue with the paints themselves or if it's because these primers are specifically smoother and don't have as much tooth for paint on top to grip onto. It's one of the reasons I want to try them out in person first, if they rub off too easily from handling then they aren't much good to me
Put a varnish on, and the problem goes away...
Don't we all varnish anyways?
Varnish may not help if the paint is not properly keyed to the layer below. It will still chip away, especially with matte varnish.
It doesn't "chip". It wears off. Like every other paint ever made does, but since it's a thinner layer, there's less to rub off before you expose the colour underneath. Vallejo Model Color paints also rub off more easily than Citadel or Vallejo Game Color paints, because they're formulated differently for different purposes.
It happened to me painting a Marine; the paint on the knuckles of the left hand wore away due to handling. That could also be because I was speed painting and thus handling parts before they were properly dried. It wasn't even that bad, really. Only more noticeable because there's a greater contrast between the colour of the Contrast paint and the primer than normal. I've had similar while using other more traditional paints.
It takes very little handling for the paint to rub off quickly. In the space of time between finishing the model and bringing it home from the shop (I had it wrapped in some cloth), the paint on the robes of the sequitor I'd painted had rubbed off on a lot of the higher points.
That... could actually be interesting, if you can work with it in a similar way as you would with oil washes and spirits... If there's a way to control that rubbing off you could be able to work out the highlights, maybe.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
As opposed to what we have now - lazy painters who slap 3 thick coats of base paint on a model and call it done?
If anything the basic higher results that contrast paint delivers in terms of shade and highlighting might actually encourage more people to improve their painting. Many people fail hard at painting and it discourages them from taking it further because its a darn lot of hours to build up the skills to get better. If contrast paints give them a little boost; a better visual idea of highlights and shading then chances are they might well take a few steps further. They might well push themselves a little more because now they've got a decentish whole army they can spend time touching up and trying to improve upon it.
And some won't get any further than three colours slapped onto their model. And that's fine because its each to their own. If contrast means fewer armies of grey that's all good for the hobby!
I'm just looking forward to the stuff, I have a couple sisters proxies and some colors on order that I'll be using to see how this all looks, if it works I'll be ready to go for actually painting a sisters army in a reasonable time frame.
I think the contrast paints are exactly what big army games need.. in a skirmish game where you only have 10 minis to paint, who cares.. but when you have 100+ skaven, this will make painting a big army much less of a chore and more like something that's a lot more fun
So I wonder, how does the paint look (and last) over a plain gray mini, since lazy people are lazy?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Kinda worried this will make for lazy painters that just slap on contrast with no idea of how to actually do it, with brush control being a big thing.
LEarning new techniques will be out the window
Its the same as if one relies too much on dry brushing or inks'n'washes to produce an instantly-excellent model. It'll be impressive for the first few models, but then you begin to notice other peoples models are still better because they paid their dues with study, patience, practice and not relying on a single technique.
We must all band together to stop people painting the "wrong way".
Do you hear yourselves?
Let's not be silly, now. I was saying that these contrast paints are not going to turn us all into lazy painters as was suggested.
Although Contrasts are made with speed-painting in mind, there are just as many artists out there as gamers who enjoy painting miniatures, and will merely add them to their collection of paints and techniques.
RedizDead wrote: Guys I ordered a bunch of Bloodletters, and want to contrast them to speed the painting up.
Which contrast colors would you use? And not just for the flesh.
Thanks for your help
Depends on choice but the id say fleshtearer red , black Templar , skeleton bone would cover you, possibly blood angel red for two tones on the body.
Jeebus, I can't believe we still have some folks whinging about "right way" and all that.
Look. Contrast paints aren't really a new idea. About 10-15 years ago, there was this big movement of adding Future Floor Wax to paints to make "magic wash," which was advocated to paint straight over white primer for "instant shading and highlighting." Even then, there was some of this elitism garbage.
Can you make your own (close) equivalents? Sure. Is there something to be said for the convenience sake and consistency? Yup.
There is no "one true path" in painting. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just a jerk.
Interesting. Taken with that Ridgerunner video from earlier in the thread, it seems like these will be useful for mimicking quite a few weathering effects without all the faff of working with oils and powders.
And yeah Albertorius, the Gloss washes work kinda like that, but it's another thing a new person would have to buy. That kind of little thing is more like the discovery they work kinda like "ghost tints" when you shoot them through an airbrush - you're probably not going to go out and buy them just for that, but if you already have the contrast there it's useful to know you can use it to do these other things so you don't have to go out and grab specialist products as well.
Honestly the biggest appeal for me for these has changed - I was mainly on board for the time savings, but the sheer versatility of this stuff is impressive.
The contrast seems to really suit his style, it even looks a bit smoother than usual. Am looking forward to using the variety of browns on my ASOIAF Freefolk, at least as a good base. Any metals, skin and the like will be used over the top of it using standard paint.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I found this really useful, credit to The Hairy Gamers on Facebook (I think).
Spoiler:
Today I checked IRL those comparison painted bases on the pics at GW Chelmsford, they also had some painted primaris for clients to check and I must say the colours are really vivid and rich, some really good options for your pallet. Loved them. Did not try though, not much time on my hands but I think these will be great for middle tones then pushing down shadows on some areas and highlights on others should produce good and faster results.
No paints on sale only this Saturday so I got Abaddon the despoiler instead cracking model.
Well reserved wraith bone spray and blood angel red(I think that was the name). Going to try bloodletters with these. I have daemon army start so they are perfect quinea pigs for thee.
More than that after I come from Japan. Just want bit of try out before that to see with my own eyes how it works.
tneva82 wrote: Well reserved wraith bone spray and blood angel red(I think that was the name). Going to try bloodletters with these. I have daemon army start so they are perfect quinea pigs for thee.
More than that after I come from Japan. Just want bit of try out before that to see with my own eyes how it works.
You on holiday to Japan? Always wanted to go there. Hope you enjoy it!
Ghaz wrote: 'Experimenting With Contrast Paints - Painting Flesh' by Pete the Wargamer:
Odd video. The first one (before he massively thinned it down with medium) looks the best to my eyes- there is too much undercoat showing through on the later ones. Except the one he just globbed piles of brown on, of course.
For the second one, the problem wasn't the recesses (which are too dark after painting them directly with a darker color), it was the highlights, which seemed mostly to be a result of 50% medium.
The red faced one just looks like a lot of red daubed on the face. I could almost see what he was going for with the grey (though its too smooth and shiny for a 'stubble' effect), but it didn't mesh at all with the red.
Its an interesting experiment, but more along the lines of 'how not to use contrast paints'
I agree. I think his ones with the thinned medium look too washed out and the shading too stark. And the red splotchy face could easily be a zombie painting guide it's got so much grey and blood red going on.
RedizDead wrote: Guys I ordered a bunch of Bloodletters, and want to contrast them to speed the painting up.
Which contrast colors would you use? And not just for the flesh.
Thanks for your help
Depends on choice but the id say fleshtearer red , black Templar , skeleton bone would cover you, possibly blood angel red for two tones on the body.
Yeah that sounds good thank mate!
How to deal with metallics with contrast? Classic leadbelcher or something in the new range my be usefull?
Ghaz wrote: 'Experimenting With Contrast Paints - Painting Flesh' by Pete the Wargamer:
Odd video. The first one (before he massively thinned it down with medium) looks the best to my eyes- there is too much undercoat showing through on the later ones. Except the one he just globbed piles of brown on, of course.
For the second one, the problem wasn't the recesses (which are too dark after painting them directly with a darker color), it was the highlights, which seemed mostly to be a result of 50% medium.
The red faced one just looks like a lot of red daubed on the face. I could almost see what he was going for with the grey (though it too smooth and shiny for a 'stubble' effect), but it didn't mesh at all with the red.
Its an interesting experiment, but more along the lines of 'how not to use contrast paints'
Yeah, the first one with a little bit more brush control to get the paint where it needs to go is what I would expect from contrast, quick with a bit of shade and highlight.
Second one is diluted to far, third is too thick and the red on the forth just didn't work out.
At that point (several highlights, NMM) the boingrot is basically useless to see any Contrast effec I think, but the BoN is interesting, because it has Contrast over Contrast as a tint/filter painted and airbrushed on. And Contrast highlighted with Contrast tone plus Wraithbone.
Basically "One thick coat" is the least interesting thing you can do with it, though of course that is what GW promotes.
Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
At that point (several highlights, NMM) the boingrot is basically useless to see any Contrast effec I think, but the BoN is interesting, because it has Contrast over Contrast as a tint/filter painted and airbrushed on. And Contrast highlighted with Contrast tone plus Wraithbone.
Basically "One thick coat" is the least interesting thing you can do with it, though of course that is what GW promotes.
It makes sense for GW to market the product to the masses that can barely paint their models and for who a highlight and shade is already great rather then for the 0.001% who can reach this level of quality.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
It certainly gave me the impression that the new Nighthaunt models actually look good with a proper color scheme.
At that point (several highlights, NMM) the boingrot is basically useless to see any Contrast effec I think, but the BoN is interesting, because it has Contrast over Contrast as a tint/filter painted and airbrushed on. And Contrast highlighted with Contrast tone plus Wraithbone.
Basically "One thick coat" is the least interesting thing you can do with it, though of course that is what GW promotes.
It makes sense for GW to market the product to the masses that can barely paint their models and for who a highlight and shade is already great rather then for the 0.001% who can reach this level of quality.
They do have videos and WD articles featuring more advanced techniques, though. They could promote Contrast with a wider range of applications than the sloppy Intercessor video. Take that video (from Pete?) where the Ridgerunner is getting pretty nice weathering done with Contrast and highlight this use case as well. Show colours using additive mixing by layering yellow over blue to get green where they overlap thanks to the transparency,
I mean, apparently they're already selling well enough, but they sit on months or years of experimentation with those paints, show what crazy effects they can give outside of "basecoat with a wash and sort of a highlight".
Tyranid Horde wrote: Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
It certainly gave me the impression that the new Nighthaunt models actually look good with a proper color scheme.
Ghaz wrote: 'Experimenting With Contrast Paints - Painting Flesh' by Pete the Wargamer:
Odd video. The first one (before he massively thinned it down with medium) looks the best to my eyes- there is too much undercoat showing through on the later ones. Except the one he just globbed piles of brown on, of course.
For the second one, the problem wasn't the recesses (which are too dark after painting them directly with a darker color), it was the highlights, which seemed mostly to be a result of 50% medium.
The red faced one just looks like a lot of red daubed on the face. I could almost see what he was going for with the grey (though its too smooth and shiny for a 'stubble' effect), but it didn't mesh at all with the red.
Its an interesting experiment, but more along the lines of 'how not to use contrast paints'
I don't know, I think Pete is doing something wrong with his Contrast paints. His results all look very patchy, I guess he applies it too thinly so the medium can't do it's magic.
This video showcases the flesh tones much better with much smoother results:
Tyranid Horde wrote: Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
It certainly gave me the impression that the new Nighthaunt models actually look good with a proper color scheme.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
It certainly gave me the impression that the new Nighthaunt models actually look good with a proper color scheme.
Mud on mud is a proper color scheme?
Yes.
Eh, while it would be interesting to read how he achieve the effect of some of the different sections in the close ups, you really need to consider how it would look on the tabletop. An army painted like that would be an undifferentiated swirl of Browns, with lots of lost detail (even more so than the unzoomed images in that article, because IRL they won't be in front of a white background). GW minis are really designed for color schemes that contrast at least a little bit.
A miniature really isn't a Rembrandt where people are supposed to sit for several hours doing art appreciation things. Ideally the paint should help identify the model, not hide its identity (even as a side effect)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and confirmed on FB that all Warhammer Stores will have the full range available on the day.
So if you're desperate for one that's currently sold out online, might be worth visiting your local Warhammer Store (if you've got one, appreciate not everyone does) early on Saturday
Tyranid Horde wrote: Just had a read of Blanche's assessment of contrast paints, I know he's inclined to be positive about the paints but the browns and yellows he's used actually would make me consider trying a similarly styled army. Good stuff.
It certainly gave me the impression that the new Nighthaunt models actually look good with a proper color scheme.
Mud on mud is a proper color scheme?
Yes.
Eh, while it would be interesting to read how he achieve the effect of some of the different sections in the close ups, you really need to consider how it would look on the tabletop. An army painted like that would be an undifferentiated swirl of Browns, with lots of lost detail (even more so than the unzoomed images in that article, because IRL they won't be in front of a white background). GW minis are really designed for color schemes that contrast at least a little bit.
A miniature really isn't a Rembrandt where people are supposed to sit for several hours doing art appreciation things. Ideally the paint should help identify the model, not hide its identity (even as a side effect)
I don't disagree with you in general, but specifically in the case of ghosts blurred lines, reduced contrast and a limited selection of colors is, in my opinion, strictly superior to the 'Eavy Metal way of painting to separate individual parts from each other with clear lines and contrasting colors. The latter is good for marketing, showing off all the detail the model has. It doesn't do anything to bring across the non-corporeal nature of the miniatures, however. I think Blanche does a wonderful job of that.
It's not like the models he painted are strictly mud on mud, as you put it. He has light and dark to work in some contrast, along with main colors of yellowish and reddish brown to give the models structure. Additionally there are spots of different colors like bone and metal, albeit tinted to blend in with the rest of the model. Those parts do stand out, however. Finally he throws in something that looks like green to add some more contrast.
I'd say that gives the individual models plenty of definition, even at their actual size on the table. Would you want an entire army like that? Probably not if it consists mostly of things with similar silhouettes. This kind of painting requires you to work with the physical shape of the models a lot more than you would with a neater paint job that uses more, and more contrasting colors. It probably wouldn't look good to have a ghoul or ghost or daemon horde in front of you. If you can throw in some cavalry and monsters to break apart the infantry, though, that would instantly look a lot better.
There's also the difference between someone painting a model, and someone painting an army.
I absolutely agree that an army should have a scheme which helps visually clarify what each unit is. And I can see how Blanche's style doesn't really achieve that. As an opponent, I ideally want to be able to glance at your current deployment, and come away with at least a reasonable idea of what's what, and importantly what I'm about to pick a fight with. The style in that article could occlude such visual reference. When it looks like a horde o'brown, it could be difficult for me to tell a Chainrasp from a Bladeghiest, particularly as AoS doesn't prevent us from bubble wrapping one unit within another. If I can't readily tell what's what, I'm at an unfair disadvantage, as I can all too easily misread a units combat potential.
But John Blanche is a painter of models. He's not so much painting playing tokens, but Art. It's intended for display, as a demonstration of his preferred technique. So for his purposes, a miniature is there for others to appreciate as a piece of art.
It's in the same rough vein as their recent Concept Army article. If it's your bag, go for it. If not, it's still someone else's, so appreciate it as you can, but don't knock the painter for going a bit leftfield.
I do see how it might not be very visually friendly for a tabletop setting but his style can be easily modified to make the focal point of an army even stronger like Lady Olynder for Nighthaunt or another centrepiece.
I'm considering painting up a Skaven horde of clan rats like this because it really shows off that they're a seething mass of bodies rather than a rank and file army. Dirty and gritty is how I imagine a Skaven army and the ability to give bright details is easily done by having bright eyes or warpstone weapons.
He also takes Rembrandt as inspiration for his pieces, they're not meant to be Rembrandts or to be looked upon as such and I do like how he's actually using an artist's eye when painting.
They do have videos and WD articles featuring more advanced techniques, though. They could promote Contrast with a wider range of applications than the sloppy Intercessor video. Take that video (from Pete?) where the Ridgerunner is getting pretty nice weathering done with Contrast and highlight this use case as well. Show colours using additive mixing by layering yellow over blue to get green where they overlap thanks to the transparency,
I mean, apparently they're already selling well enough, but they sit on months or years of experimentation with those paints, show what crazy effects they can give outside of "basecoat with a wash and sort of a highlight".
And they put up every tutorial for regular paints the day they launched? Who says they won't put up advanced tutorials later? You don't expect them to blow up everything at once?
I don't know, I think Pete is doing something wrong with his Contrast paints. His results all look very patchy, I guess he applies it too thinly so the medium can't do it's magic.
This is actually something I've been noticing in a lot of videos both positive and negative - it seems like a lot of painters are being far too conservative in the application, trying to "control" the Contrast as they would a normal paint or wash, but from what I've seen it works best if you (carefully)slop it on really heavy and then go back with your brush cleaned off to clear up excess where you don't want it.
What some people have said is “if you think your putting it on too think you probably need to add a bit more”. It seems that you need a lot of it, and this is going to be a learning curve for many of us.
They do have videos and WD articles featuring more advanced techniques, though. They could promote Contrast with a wider range of applications than the sloppy Intercessor video. Take that video (from Pete?) where the Ridgerunner is getting pretty nice weathering done with Contrast and highlight this use case as well. Show colours using additive mixing by layering yellow over blue to get green where they overlap thanks to the transparency,
I mean, apparently they're already selling well enough, but they sit on months or years of experimentation with those paints, show what crazy effects they can give outside of "basecoat with a wash and sort of a highlight".
And they put up every tutorial for regular paints the day they launched? Who says they won't put up advanced tutorials later? You don't expect them to blow up everything at once?
I expect nothing, but their own promotional video introducing Contrast paints by painting an Intercessor all over, reapplying Wraithbone on areas they needlessly painted and then slop on some more contrast is pants and selling their own product short. If you disagree, fine.
Citadel paint app has been updated. It now has battle ready and parade ready paint schemes for all models using the standard painting method, they have also added contrast parting method for certain models which has also been broken down into battle ready and parade ready versions.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: If I can't readily tell what's what, I'm at an unfair disadvantage, as I can all too easily misread a units combat potential.
I find that is a "courtesy" I extend for my opponent and myself:
A consistent colour scheme.
I have applied it across my entire Imperial based armies.
It lends coherency when doing any "soup" as well: you always know what you are facing and who's army.
Plasma = Green
Viewports, cockpit glass or readout displays = Green.
Most normal weapons = Red
Power weapons = Blue
Lascannons = Blue
Combat weapon in general (other than plain knife) / power glove (not fingers) = black / yellow hazard stripe.
Most bases = "Raw Sienna" Liquitex.
Flamers = Copper near the nozzles.
Melta = Brass with a bit of burnt purple look.
Blah..... anything that can make this mess of colour look better with high contrast is appreciated.
Most forms of lens or glow is all a good candidate for the high contrast paint.
This method I set out for myself makes taking on anything a long process.
That's neat, I do something very similar but with different colours!
Plasma = Blue
Viewports = Blue
Most Normal Weapons = Green
(IG) Bolters = Black
Lascannons = Red
Melta fuel = Purple
Melta Nozzles = Copper
Flamer Fuel = Red
Flamer Nozzles = Copper
Autocannons = Yellow
Multi-Lasers = Gold
Power Weapons = Blue
All Bases = Sand with Agrax washed over top, with spotty static grass.
I'm really looking forward to Contrast for new projects.
So perhaps someone can tell me how this works.
When you go into GW and sit to paint (in my store I see people say painting and such sometimes, just like a random weekday let’s say).
Can you test out paints or are those people just taking their own?
And equally I know people have been going into store and trying Contrast, and getting given a Primaris to donit on, is this something that keeps going after release do we think/know?
Or is it just during that preorder period..?
I don't know if they have a unified store policy on painting right now. Long ago, the painting stations were for anyone who wanted to paint and the store would have a selection of paints you could use. Then GW made each store subject to the decisions of the individual managers and some stores had no in store painting, others had bring your own everything, others had a "boot camp" program where you had to pay for painting lessons. A couple years back they had a "customer experience" person go from store to store to figure out what works best and at this point I have no idea whether a common policy has been implemented. Call the store and ask.
Danny76 wrote: So perhaps someone can tell me how this works.
?
Last week my local GW had a bunch of ETB models they had primed with the news sprays, plus a box they had Zenithal highlighted. Folks were able to sit down with a staff member and try out the various contrast paints.
I have to agree with what some people are saying. Some of the You tubers seem to be applying the contrast paints thinly as if they were a wash, instead of putting it on a little thicker and allowing it to do its magic.
In the Contrast and Classic combined video it's interesting how Peachy put the black contrast paint over a Mechanicus Standard Grey base. Over a white base coat it looks a bit poor and doing two coats makes it look a bit shiny. Maybe the grey base is the way forward for that.
Personally, I'll be picking up a selection of colours for my collection. But I'll wait for it to be a regular stock item, I can't be bothered with all the rushing to the shop and grabbing them while stocks last thing.
I liked Peachy's paint job on that SCE, I think it's quite a good example of what you can do with contrast alongside the standard range. Not a fan of the gloss top coat though.
I think Sam Lenz' article sealed the deal for me if I hadn't been convinced in their uses already. He made it very tutorial-esque instead of what the other artists have done by just commenting saying it's good.
I ordered a bundle from my local GW as they're doing the online deal too. It feels a little like an impulse buy but it gives me an excuse to pick up some shades and base paints without being completely mauled.
Danny76 wrote: So perhaps someone can tell me how this works.
When you go into GW and sit to paint (in my store I see people say painting and such sometimes, just like a random weekday let’s say).
Can you test out paints or are those people just taking their own?
And equally I know people have been going into store and trying Contrast, and getting given a Primaris to donit on, is this something that keeps going after release do we think/know?
Or is it just during that preorder period..?
At my store, new people can have a painting demo, where they're given a stormcast or primaris mini and allowed to use the store paints. But that's only for their very first time.
Then you can use the painting tables (which you can book in advance), but you need to bring all your stuff (they only provide water pots and paper towel).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Video from miniac:
13.30: he says "GW are saying to people you can paint better with this product".
No, imo they are not. They are simply saying you can paint faster, with less "hassle" and less experience.
I think Miniac summed up my opinion on contrast with a little bit more negativity than I would have given.
I think he complains too much about how it was advertised. GW always push their products as the best ever, that's how they work. Think back to finecast for instance. No point crying about an advertising technique that will face a bit of backlash.
A lot of the negativity I’m seeing can be characterised as people using Contrast paint badly then blaming the paint.
All of the positivity from experienced painters can be characterised as, here’s an interesting new paint that can do some things better than standard acrylic paint.
I know which one I’m listening to. I’ve not bought any Contrast paint and I’m not rushing out to get some, but I will probably get some one day.
I have used some and I am getting some, specifically to close gaps in my painting style that I can close the old-fashioned way but don’t normally want to because it takes fething ages to layer up all those glazes.
The hype of finecast isn't really an endorsement of GW's integrity in advertising.
I thought this was like one of the only honest reviews so far. People are really hyping this product and I think a lot of hobbyists are going to be set up for disappointment.
This is the only review I've seen that ends up pointing out the contradiction of a wash like application and the use of it to pick out all the separate colours. The new painter at the beginning of the video encounters this almost immediately.
And the sheen is real. Matte varnish for sure.
Contrast is good, and I've always been a fan of thinner paints over white primer as a fast way to paint. I plan on getting some, but I think there's going to be a lot of people who are disappointed when they finally put brush to model with these.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MonkeyBallistic wrote: A lot of the negativity I’m seeing can be characterised as people using Contrast paint badly then blaming the paint.
So given that miniature painting involves actual techniques I think we're going to see a lot of frustrated people who "use the paint badly" as new painters.
All of the positivity from experienced painters can be characterised as, here’s an interesting new paint that can do some things better than standard acrylic paint.
I know which one I’m listening to. I’ve not bought any Contrast paint and I’m not rushing out to get some, but I will probably get some one day.
Listen to both! The issues people encounter aren't fake. The utility of the paints once you know what to do with them is real as well. When someone uses it badly, learn from their mistakes and accept the limitations of the medium. When someone uses it well, remember the technique.
There's just no reason to be on a team for or against on this. It's paint.
I think having a majority of your models painted at a 7 is much more functional than having almost no models painted at a 10. I've known people that sit in their house and never play because "painting isn't done yet"
Its not just GW, all companies hype their products. They are in business to make money and they need your money to go to them rather than someone else. I can remember the hype when textured basing paints first came along and Vallejo was sold as unprecedented professional quality when it first became available. I think GW got it right in allowing people to have a go in advance, I used it and liked it. At the end of the day if I can get some nice colour washes from my convenient local GW then I'm not going to complain but neither am I going to use contrast exclusively. They just add to the variety of techniques available which can hardly be a bad thing can it?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am 100% for these paints existing and I'm sure lots of people will be helped by them. Just like when acrylic shades first started being a pre made product (rather than inks you need to mix with medium yourself).
My hope for any new painter is that they quickly realize that going with *just* contrast isn't as good as going with a combination. Stormcast in Hammers of SIgmar scheme, for example, would be great if the yellow was replaced with wyldwood and then actual gold painted on the raised brown areas after. Wyldwood is also a great "learn to highlight" colour as it really leaves the raised edges brigther so it shows you where to paint the gold.
And that combination of nuln oil and contrast medium Kris Belleau showed in that one video is probably the best all over wash product available right now. So good.
I expect most new painters will quickly realise that, just like any other skill, you need to invest time in practice and research to get truly good. However, I do think that the minis that a novice will produce with contrast paint will look better than my first attempts did nearly 40 years ago.
I am not sure I understand the basis to the video because I didn't think that the Contrast medium was designed to mix with non-contrast paint. I thought it was designed specifically to mix and be the medium for only Contrast paint. Was there a discussion, belief or understanding that contrast medium would somehow make non-contrast paint become similar to contrast paint?
Yes, GW has said that the Contrast medium won't make a normal paint into a Contrast paint. Still, people will want to experiment and see what results they can achieve with the Contrast paints and medium.
I felt the same as you when I viewed this and other videos. You're correct, the contrast medium was designed for the contrast paints.
I don't care for the way some of these reviewers use items developed for a specific use and then "meh" on the outcome.
The value in videos like this though, are that they're doing some of the mad science for us.
I liked the IG heads and Tau rifles best. I was planning to just buy every color immediately. His talk-through and side by side really let me form my own opinion of which colors I wanted to try immediately, which I could get late if needed, and a few I probably would never buy.
Thanks for that, it helped me decide which paints I'm going to purchase.
Strange that Cygor Brown and the dark purple colour are so dark, there really isn't much contrast there at all
I think that 25% contrast medium would probably just push them in the right direction. Maybe even up to a third of the medium.
It's also possible that the best results will involve different techniques for different colours. Perhaps the cygor brown needs to be applied and then you take it off all the raised areas with a barely damp brush? Like how pooling needs to be removed before it dries for a lot of the colours?
I am not sure I understand the basis to the video because I didn't think that the Contrast medium was designed to mix with non-contrast paint. I thought it was designed specifically to mix and be the medium for only Contrast paint. Was there a discussion, belief or understanding that contrast medium would somehow make non-contrast paint become similar to contrast paint?
Just that all paint is solvent, binder, pigment and additives. So if you've got the solvent, binder and additives in the medium, why not try different pigment sources? I actually think it does a reasonable job turning other paint into a sort of contrast paint. If you have a turquoise and contrast medium and want to do a verdigris rust on some copper or bronze, why not give it a go? I guess you could get an entire bottle of that specific technical paint, but if you know how the mediums behave and just need to do one little detail like that, it's a a good skill to have.
Miniac is on point, these aint gonna be a magical "get my army painted" they advertised it as. It is still gonna take time and effort to make them look passible, and I think we are gonna be a deluges of "Contrast only" armies that look like ass.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Miniac is on point, these aint gonna be a magical "get my army painted" they advertised it as. It is still gonna take time and effort to make them look passible, and I think we are gonna be a deluges of "Contrast only" armies that look like ass.
What a tragedy that we'll have to deal with that instead of the usual 'grey plastic only' we see. Or the 'no contrast, still looks like ass because painting sucks and I hate it but it's 3 colors so screw off', which is my personal favorite.
Contrast will make some armies look less ass, faster. That's why it's cool.
Flagg07 wrote: I liked the IG heads and Tau rifles best. I was planning to just buy every color immediately. His talk-through and side by side really let me form my own opinion of which colors I wanted to try immediately, which I could get late if needed, and a few I probably would never buy.
I liked that video, too, but it was also somewhat flawed in that he only used one of the primers, Grey Seer, for all of the tests rather than also using Wraithbone to show how that affects the colors. I definitely appreciate that a lot of these people are doing the experimentation for us.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am 100% for these paints existing and I'm sure lots of people will be helped by them. Just like when acrylic shades first started being a pre made product (rather than inks you need to mix with medium yourself).
My hope for any new painter is that they quickly realize that going with *just* contrast isn't as good as going with a combination. Stormcast in Hammers of SIgmar scheme, for example, would be great if the yellow was replaced with wyldwood and then actual gold painted on the raised brown areas after. Wyldwood is also a great "learn to highlight" colour as it really leaves the raised edges brigther so it shows you where to paint the gold.
And that combination of nuln oil and contrast medium Kris Belleau showed in that one video is probably the best all over wash product available right now. So good.
Interesting and useful video. He should do the other primer (Wraithbone) as well- it should affect some of the colors fairly significantly.
I'm amused that Ahkelian Green is what I thought it was- a blue.
Takes all sorts I suppose. Personally I would rather see someone make an attempt at doing White Scars with Tipp-Ex and magic markers than grey plastic but chacun a son goute.
‘I’d rather someone not even bother if they aren’t good at painting, rather than try their best’.
I mean, really?
I know right?
It’s almost as if some people think good painters didn’t have to learn how to do it. When I painted my first minis nearly 40 years ago, there really weren’t any paints aimed at painting minis easily available. I ended up using an eclectic mix of artists oils, Airfix enamels and even poster paint. Eleven year old me would have loved to have had Contrast paint back then.
No, the finish isn't as fragile as some would have us believe. I carried my test pieces home loose in my pocket with no rubs or scratches. They won't stand up to long term handling but they are fine for painting over.
The Forgemaster wrote: Presumably you can use the pots of contrast base paint (Grey Seer etc.) as the undercoat then a contrast paint on top, you do not need a spray?
You don’t actually ‘need’ the special undercoat/base paint at all, just a light tone and a smooth (but not glossy) surface finish. For example you can apply Contrast directly over Retributor Armour spray or over brushed on light base like Averland Sunset, or even over the top of a really bright layer like Flash Gitz Yellow.
But yes you can use the potted Wraithbone and Grey Seer in place of the sparays if you want.
The Forgemaster wrote: Presumably you can use the pots of contrast base paint (Grey Seer etc.) as the undercoat then a contrast paint on top, you do not need a spray?
You don’t actually ‘need’ the special undercoat/base paint at all, just a light tone and a smooth (but not glossy) surface finish. For example you can apply Contrast directly over Retributor Armour spray or over brushed on light base like Averland Sunset, or even over the top of a really bright layer like Flash Gitz Yellow.
But yes you can use the potted Wraithbone and Grey Seer in place of the sparays if you want.
I think the point with the two new sprays is that they're light.
From what we've seen, contrast won't work over a Chaos Black spray because it's too translucent, but lighter base coats/sprays and some metallics would be fine.
AduroT wrote: The Contrast bases still aren’t a primer though, right?
The two new contrast based sprays are primers and are designed to be used instead of the regular white or black primers. Their main property is that they go on with a much smoother finish whilst the traditional white is a much more coarse finish on the model. The contrast paint basically wants to flow over the surface, letting it stretch out on the raised areas and pool in the recesses; so a coarse undercoat wouldn't let it flow as well to achieve its best appearance. Though I'd wager you could get a similar effect, you just might have to mess with it a lot more on the model with the brush. Even with a smooth undercoat you appear to still need some brush control and to move it around a bit to get a good result - more so on open areas.
Very light undercoats have the advantages of best showing off the Contrast effect, and being usable with any colour. But it gives this pastel look to the highlights that I'm not digging at all.
I'm hoping that different undercoat colours can get richer and more dynamic results. It'll take more thought and effort, especially if you want to use more than one Contrast colour on the mini. But if I can just get the base and shade done in one coat that's still good news for army painting.
Fabio Bile wrote: Very light undercoats have the advantages of best showing off the Contrast effect, and being usable with any colour. But it gives this pastel look to the highlights that I'm not digging at all.
I'm hoping that different undercoat colours can get richer and more dynamic results. It'll take more thought and effort, especially if you want to use more than one Contrast colour on the mini. But if I can just get the base and shade done in one coat that's still good news for army painting.
I think the pastel look is going to be something you get with contrast paints to some extent because you've got pigment in the highlights every time; so a softer more pastel transition is kind of going to be more normal. More coats might have boost the contrast of the base areas though and reduce the effect, but I think if you want sharper highlights then the contrast paint would give you your "base" coat and then adding more highlights using regular highlighting methods on top would be the approach. Though it might be that using the contrast paint in a mix might also let you use it as a highlighting paint to get a sharper contrast, but with smoother graduation
AduroT wrote: The Contrast bases still aren’t a primer though, right?
The two new contrast based sprays are primers and are designed to be used instead of the regular white or black primers. Their main property is that they go on with a much smoother finish whilst the traditional white is a much more coarse finish on the model. The contrast paint basically wants to flow over the surface, letting it stretch out on the raised areas and pool in the recesses; so a coarse undercoat wouldn't let it flow as well to achieve its best appearance. Though I'd wager you could get a similar effect, you just might have to mess with it a lot more on the model with the brush. Even with a smooth undercoat you appear to still need some brush control and to move it around a bit to get a good result - more so on open areas.
Last I knew the black and the white weren’t primers, just paint. Are they, and the wraithbone and grey seer, actual primer or just basecoats?
Does anyone know if it is better to paint large areas with contrast, with a large brush or smaller brushes? which style of brush is best (from GW) (Base/Layer/Dry)?
AduroT wrote: The Contrast bases still aren’t a primer though, right?
The two new contrast based sprays are primers and are designed to be used instead of the regular white or black primers. Their main property is that they go on with a much smoother finish whilst the traditional white is a much more coarse finish on the model. The contrast paint basically wants to flow over the surface, letting it stretch out on the raised areas and pool in the recesses; so a coarse undercoat wouldn't let it flow as well to achieve its best appearance. Though I'd wager you could get a similar effect, you just might have to mess with it a lot more on the model with the brush. Even with a smooth undercoat you appear to still need some brush control and to move it around a bit to get a good result - more so on open areas.
Last I knew the black and the white weren’t primers, just paint. Are they, and the wraithbone and grey seer, actual primer or just basecoats?
It depends on choice my local GW staff refers to abbadon black and corax white as proper primers and recommend using those 1st then adding another layer of color even from rattlecans (like leadbelcher,retributor, averland and such) and the new Grey seer and Wraithbone should be the *contrast* primers over plastic before adding contrast.
I have used Leadbelcher as primer and never had an issue so far ( must admit it's mostly for terrain structures) and i can say for sure the new contrast primers can cover quite nicely a previous primed mini with abbadon Black without covering the details and can be worked with should you want to use contrast in previous primed minis.
Fabio Bile wrote: Very light undercoats have the advantages of best showing off the Contrast effect, and being usable with any colour. But it gives this pastel look to the highlights that I'm not digging at all.
I'm hoping that different undercoat colours can get richer and more dynamic results. It'll take more thought and effort, especially if you want to use more than one Contrast colour on the mini. But if I can just get the base and shade done in one coat that's still good news for army painting.
I'm looking forward to using the contrast paint over medium to medium light tone colors instead of the very light colors GW is using. Hoping it will give more color depth than the "watercolor" look.
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
Thats just a good looking miniature with what sounds like minimal effort, tho I assume still some decent skill in brush control.
Perfect for someone looking to finally paint to 100+ guardsman.
I'm surprised by how quickly a can of Wraithbone ran out. We just primed maybe 30 models up, and its already on fumes. Wondering if we got a bad can?
Luckily we bought two, and the second seemed to go significantly further... but man, the secret cost of entry until we find a good, similar, satin finish at ye olde hardware store, is these pricey sprays. Hoping Krylon satin allows for a similar flow?
Well, I was at the Warhammer Citadel store this morning just after opening to pick up my preorder and a couple of other things. I'll bet they made this month's rent in sales in just that first hour or two. So many paints were moving, everyone was carrying handfuls of paint pots to the register.
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Miniac is on point, these aint gonna be a magical "get my army painted" they advertised it as.
I have no idea why some people here liked this comically biased garbage. He first hands the paints to a new painter who doesn't even know anything about brush handling or paint thinning, then when newbie produces a model vastly better than previous one done in traditional way, the clown presenting the video whines it's "not that good". Seriously? Is he blind? The difference between two models the new painter done completely destroys whatever point he might have had, and that was just first model by someone who can't even paint yet, for one, the details were nice and highlighted with contrast instead of buried under a mound of thick paint...
But the second part was even more comical. The mastah gives a go himself, proudly declaring this model only took him 1.5 hours (even though it looks far worse than 15 minute Cadian ZenBadger did above...) doing I have no idea what because it was so badly done it shouldn't even take 5 minutes, then proceeds to call the paints gak. Really? It's obvious that joker is worse painter than anyone I have seen on this forum, and if you're taking his opinion after barely trying it over the likes of Sam Lenz or Kris Belleau I don't know what to say. Would you ask a kid who played Forza on a console a few times to pick your new car?
Well I was going to wait, but I went out this morning and got the last apothecary white and second to last Blood angel red. I put these on some B-Sieged figures that I had primed with some rustoleum white primer from Walmart.
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
This is a very nice paintjob when you consider that you can do a whole infantry army in a week.
I picked up my preorders today, store did not receive Black Templar or Darkoath Flesh, but I got the other 8 I wanted.
Grabbed 8 or so this morning. Did a test on a dark elf cold one. Really like the lighter colors. Tried doing two coats to slightly darken shyish purple but it's to dark for multiple layers.
I picked up four colors (mainly because the ravenous hordes apparently got there before, so...): black, orange, yellow and flesh, and a can of primer. And I've been experimenting a bit (Disclaimer: I only have a single, busted up brush from ages ago. Control is... not the best >_>:
First I painted a couple of Conan picts, which were primed a long time ago with Army Painter flesh and to which I overprimed a zenital light with Vallejo bone primer:
Spoiler:
The first try looks... not that good, tbh:
I've only done the flesh of the second one, but I like it much better:
Spoiler:
Then I tried with two 3d printed minis, a barbarian and an Urbanmech, both primed with some Army Painter brown and a zenital light with Vallejo Bone:
Spoiler:
And an old Deadzone mini I had lying around, same effect but with undercoat of grey:
And lastly (I did all of the above in... maybe an hour, all told), I tried with a Newcromunda Goliath that I had primed with regular pure white GW primer. This last one took about half an hour:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm surprised by how quickly a can of Wraithbone ran out. We just primed maybe 30 models up, and its already on fumes. Wondering if we got a bad can?
Luckily we bought two, and the second seemed to go significantly further... but man, the secret cost of entry until we find a good, similar, satin finish at ye olde hardware store, is these pricey sprays. Hoping Krylon satin allows for a similar flow?
Went to a GW store today to pick up some of the paints and had primed a sprue with Krylon Satin Ivory to compare to the Wraithbone. At the store, the ivory appeared a small amount yellower and not as dark as the Wraithbone sprayed on the models in the store. When I saw your post, I painted some Wraithbone stripes on the ivory sprue (left side rail). The Wraithbone out of the bottle appears darker than the Krylon ivory, so I don't know if the difference is the lighting conditions or a color difference between the spray and bottle. In any case it seems fairly close and the effect seems to be working pretty well.
First pic
Wraithbone stripes on the left sprue rail, Satin, Antique White house paint in the background seems to match the Wraithbone pretty well. Pox walker is Militarum Green with Skeleton Horde horns and Templar Black chain and grenades. I'm thinking a very light steel drybrush will finish off the chain and grenades.
On the ork, the shoulder pads are Nazdreg Yellow (looks better in the second pic though), axe haft is Skeleton Horde, tunic is Gore Grunta Fur, pants are Flesh Tearer Red, boots are Volupus Pink and bolter is a mix of Shyish Purple and Volupus Pink in an effort to lighten up the Shyish Purple.
In the second pic the face is Magos Purple.
Used a Battle Ready Paint Set to pick up six of the new Contrast related paints: Wraithbone and Grey Seer (Base paints), three Contrast paints and Contrast Medium (Technical).
Do like the Militarum Green as a darker Nurgle base color, although I think I will add a bit of Plagueberer Flesh to yellow it a bit.
Thanks for the pics, Albertorius. I think they definitely work for organic bits with lots of peaks and crevices for the paint to roll off and look into respectively.
Couple of other things: Flesh Tearer Red over Blood Angel Red make a great dark red/crimson and Flesh Tearer Red over Flesh Tearer Red is nice too.
Store manager showed us a Guard fig with Gryph-Hound Orange (only) pants and they looked great. If doing a GSC in the orange color scheme this might be a good way to go.
Timd--try putting Magos Purple over top of Militarum Green on Wraithbone. Works like a charm I found.
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Marshal Loss wrote: That Militarum Green looks a little darker than I'd seen it in other pictures - really nice, thanks for posting. Will pick it up.
Make sure you shake it up really well. Militarum Green is a much, much better color for doing Nurgle stuff than the actual colors they suggest--especially over top of Wraithbone.
Most of the examples I've seen for Militarum Green have used Grey Seer, which is likely why it looks different.
Kanluwen wrote: Make sure you shake it up really well. Militarum Green is a much, much better color for doing Nurgle stuff than the actual colors they suggest--especially over top of Wraithbone.
The Citadel Colour app does recommend Militarum Green over Grey Seer for Death Guard Armour.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Miniac is on point, these aint gonna be a magical "get my army painted" they advertised it as.
I have no idea why some people here liked this comically biased garbage. He first hands the paints to a new painter who doesn't even know anything about brush handling or paint thinning, then when newbie produces a model vastly better than previous one done in traditional way, the clown presenting the video whines it's "not that good". Seriously? Is he blind? The difference between two models the new painter done completely destroys whatever point he might have had, and that was just first model by someone who can't even paint yet, for one, the details were nice and highlighted with contrast instead of buried under a mound of thick paint...
But the second part was even more comical. The mastah gives a go himself, proudly declaring this model only took him 1.5 hours (even though it looks far worse than 15 minute Cadian ZenBadger did above...) doing I have no idea what because it was so badly done it shouldn't even take 5 minutes, then proceeds to call the paints gak. Really? It's obvious that joker is worse painter than anyone I have seen on this forum, and if you're taking his opinion after barely trying it over the likes of Sam Lenz or Kris Belleau I don't know what to say. Would you ask a kid who played Forza on a console a few times to pick your new car?
Go watch the rest of his videos, he ain't bad, infact he is friends with Sam, maybe if you wat us his videos you would understand.
Picked some up, did some experimenting this afternoon
So far, entirely on old models with old primers, several of which I stopped using years ago.
Some interesting results (sadly no pics at the moment, because someone in this house decided the best place to put a card reader was somewhere other than with the camera or the computers it is usually attached to. :/ )
But first, a first impression: took a look at the paints at the store, several of the bottles (particularly Apothecary White and Dark Angels Green) had a lot of pigment attached to the bottom of the bottle. Vigorous, repeated shaking didn't dislodge it. I... didn't buy those.
Second impression: these paints are very much designed for specific base colors (not just the two contrast primers), but some are absolutely awful with the wrong shade and just don't work on grey or brown. This definitely includes Aethermatic Blue and Skeleton Horde. The latter often just seems like a shade even over brown base colors.
Primers used: Krylon Grey and Red Oxide. Stopped using these because they leave a rough surface. That surprisingly didn't seem to matter for the contrast paint. The grey worked with some colors, but the red oxide bled through almost everything (including BT Black), except Wyldwood and (mostly) Creed Camo.
Army Painter Leather Brown. Good color for the brown inclined paints. Fights with a lot of the others (skeleton horde, aethermatic blue)
Army Paint Wolf Grey. Pretty much the opposite of Leather Brown, the blues I tried on it looked great.
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What I picked up and tried today: Black Templar Black, Basilicanum Grey, Griff Charger Grey, Guilliman Flesh, Gore-Grunta Fur, WyldWood, Aethermatic Blue, Talassar Blue, Creed Camo, Skeleton Hode
My favorites so far:
Griff-Charger Grey. Fails on reddish browns (bleeds through) but makes for a really nice flagstone over a grey base.
Talassar Blue. This paint is fantastic. Really strong blue over grey, became a nice dark turquoise over leather brown for a lizardman shield.
Creed Camo- I really like this green over both grey and brown (which is rare for this group of test paints)
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I like BT Black better than Abaddon black, became really smooth even over a fairly rough primer. Good coverage over grey, but not a medium-to-dark red-brown
Guilliman flesh- Not really sold on this yet. Became an interesting (but not human skin tone) over grey, did... nothing but shade over Army Painter Fur Brown
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General take away- you really HAVE to know how these paints are going to react to the base coat you put them on. Some are absolutely worthless on the wrong thing (Aethermatic blue basically vanishes on brown, and becomes a hint of wrong color in the corners)
Skeleton Horde feels like a shade for me so far, and less than that on grey. Its probably the one I'm least impressed with, even over a light brown basecoat. I'll have to try some over wraithbone, but so far it doesn't do much that Seraphim sepia or agrax earthshade don't.
Edit: Image: Wraiths, Skeleton Horde is definitely tinting the grey on the skull and hands, Wyldwood is nice and dark, and the robes are Talassar Blue and Aethermatic blue respectively, the rest is still primer.
Kanluwen wrote: Make sure you shake it up really well. Militarum Green is a much, much better color for doing Nurgle stuff than the actual colors they suggest--especially over top of Wraithbone.
The Citadel Colour app does recommend Militarum Green over Grey Seer for Death Guard Armour.
\
Will second the "lots of shaking and maybe get in there with. a stick" for Militarum Green and the Apothecary White. Both had noticeable amounts of white pigment showing at the bottom of the bottle and a good shaking did not dissolve it.
Kanluwen wrote: Timd--try putting Magos Purple over top of Militarum Green on Wraithbone. Works like a charm I found.
Will give that a try when I get some Magos Purple. already planning to use purple and lavenders with the greens on my Nurgle stuff.
More observations:
Templar Black is actually a very deep green when painted over straight white.
Had thought the Grey Seer was going to be a cool gray, but its actually a fairly warm gray. A cool gray might be an interesting base color for any of the blues.
Have been doing a lot of Adeptus Ministorum figs recently using a slightly purplish red as the base color for robes. Was initially going to get a bottle of Flesh Tearer Red because it looked like there was a hint of purple in it, but it turns out it tends more towards the orange side of red, but its such a beautiful color, I got a bottle anyway... Did use Volupus Pink on a couple of already painted Adeptus Ministorum figs and it added a nice tone to the existing color.
Better pic of the pox walker (with flash). Excess Skeleton Horde paint at the neck and right elbow/forearm. Was painting without my Optivisor, so painting somewhat blind - there was much slop...
Spoiler:
Contrast paints over white. Hopefully you can see the slightly green tone in the Templar Black.
Top right is Wyldwood. Clockwise are Templar Black, Militarum Green, Apothecary White, Skeleton Horde, Snakebite Leather, Volupus Pink and Flesh Tearers Red in the center.
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
You heard it here folks, don't even bother trying.
We never once said that.
What we are saying is basic painting isnt that hard to do.
and i have tried contrast now and its quite frankly, meh.
and it annoying to work with too. so I can see a noob having problems
So GW Marketing this as noob friendly is a a lie
The demo stuff all you folks have posted using Contrast looks pretty darn good. As I have tomorrow totally free other than calling my old man and picked up half the range today, I may do a bit of experimentation with it.
hotsauceman1 wrote: We never once said that.
What we are saying is basic painting isnt that hard to do.
and i have tried contrast now and its quite frankly, meh.
and it annoying to work with too. so I can see a noob having problems
So GW Marketing this as noob friendly is a a lie
Sorry, but you’re talking out of your behind. Basic painting is very difficult for somebody who’s never done it before. IMHO A complete novice is going to get better results out of Contrast than they would with standard acrylics because they’ll bring out rather than obscure the detail. I do think these are novice friendly because they would encourage you to develop basic brush control (and let you concentrate primarily on that) which is the most important skill.
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
It looks fantastic. May I ask what colours you used for each part of the model?
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
TwilightSparkles wrote:No such thing as badly painted if the painter was trying their best.
Agreed, but I'd much rather play against an all-grey army than a 'I'll get three colours on a horde over night because that's what the rules demand', which is commonplace at tournaments. Plenty folks don't enjoy painting, just can't be bothered, or are always severely disappointed with their results, and it's a shame that the hobby community leans so heavily towards seeing painted armies as a prerequisite and forces these people to do something they dislike in order to be allowed to do the bit they do like.
Hopefully contrast paints help some of those people find painting less arduous or to produce results that they like, but there's nothing wrong with thinking grey plastic looks better sometimes.
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
Well I would prefer someone puts paint on a model over grey plastic , grey plastic is one step away from using bits of paper as counters IMO .
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
Well I would prefer someone puts paint on a model over grey plastic , grey plastic is one step away from using bits of paper as counters IMO .
What if it's heavily converted? In my time on the internet I've seen some people demonstrate amazing sculpting, plasticard and kitbashing skills only to put a decidely poor to mediocre paintjob on the result which has diminished its impresiveness.
The amount of work people can put into their models before the painting stage takes them several steps away from paper counters.
Behold the five-minute Genestealer. I love you, Constrast paints.
Wraithbone spray, a heavy but carefully applied coat of Shyish Purple, Magos Purple on the ‘skin’, Skeleton Horde on the claws, Volupus Pink on the tongue. That’s it! I let the Shyish Purple dry for an hour to avoid bleed, but just 5 mins painting time.
Oh, we're doing pictures in here? I only have pics taken last night under my painting lamp which makes for horrible images.
I only go to play around with my haul shortly before midnight, so only painted for an hour including a snack/dinner in between.
The SDE Col. Chicken dude was super quick and fun, mostly Apothecary White over Wraithbone with Wraithbone highlight. You can't see a lot of variety in the white on my quick workspace pic I think, but how it went from totally gray to an off-white when dried was pretty amazing IRL. And I love his "I've seen some gak" expression, so I had to post him. The beak and feet are actually Cassandora Yellow with a "wash" of something Dunes and Wraithbone highlight, the pupil is regular black/white/Thunderhawk Blue I had half-dried on the pallet feom a few daya before.
The plaguegor was actually a test for non-Contrast priming, as I had undercoated it with Vallejo black and then gray primer via airbrush to then put on the base paint with airbrush as well (but my pistol broke and now sprays too blotchy). It was completly black in a few spots - like I said, not planned for this test. To get a better result I put on some thinned gloss varnish, except for the arms, where I had run out on the pallet and uses straight gloss.
He was then subjected to Plaguebearer Flesh and Magos Purple/Guilliman Flesh/Fyrslyr Flesh on the limbs, with a try at wet blending Contrast there and a few spots of blabla Dunes and another brown on his back and neck. Here I ran into some misshaps. The spots bled out because the Plagurbearer Flesh was still a bit wet in some spots it seems, looks good on some, bad on others. The blending was also wonky, because the paint would just run off the arms where the pure gloss was. On his right foot the purple and the flesh blended pretty well and nowuuuuiii looks disgusting as heck IRL. I started with some highlights of PF and Wraith on his butt, leg and spine, it was too subtle for my tired eyes, I mixed in more Wraith, it came on too thick and my brushstrokes were getting way too broad, so I called it a night.
Lessons learned:
-Sloppy zenithal is a no no for this. As expected, but I had nothing else I was willing to sacrifice With dark browns over the black areas it is somewhat savable, but nothing I'd want on a regular mini. The areas under his arms, around his ankles and -sadly- his throat are roughhh.
-Plaguebearer Flesh and Blood Angels Red are beautiful on an even basecoat. Where the gor's flesh was a smooth grey, the Contrast (and his spots) made a super nice toad skin look IRL.
-Contrast paints are way thinner than I thought and the non-Contrast primer surface made it a lot harder to push the pigments around with the brush. While they're even somewhat wet they'll bleed in the colour you're laying down next to them...though that might be a nice little trick when painting sores.
-Those paints are EXPENSIVE.
-The smell of a GW rattle can gives me nostalgia. And Wraithbone sprays much better than my old Chaos Black and White cans ever did.
Overall, once I get a hang on them (and more muscle memory overall, haven't painted in years until two weeks ago) I should be able to produce a pretty nice Nurgle deamon in ~45 minutes with some light blending into shadows, highlights, skin markings etc.. Nice!
Edit: I hope I caught all random numbers my phone keyboard sprinkled into my writing, I guess water on the display isn't the best thing for long-windes rambling.
Quite possibly one of the worst things I have seen written on the internet , and putting "IMO" doesn't excuse it.
I share his sentiment. Grey plastic is preferable to a bad paintjob. Heck, even GW is suggesting a "monochrome" paint scheme, which is not far from greytide anyway.
Well I would prefer someone puts paint on a model over grey plastic , grey plastic is one step away from using bits of paper as counters IMO .
What if it's heavily converted? In my time on the internet I've seen some people demonstrate amazing sculpting, plasticard and kitbashing skills only to put a decidely poor to mediocre paintjob on the result which has diminished its impresiveness.
The amount of work people can put into their models before the painting stage takes them several steps away from paper counters.
I know what you mean, but a heavily converted mini with a basic paint job does look better than a combination of grey plastic, white plastic card and greenstuff. That’s the reason why I usual photograph my conversions in black and white. The minis I’m painting right now started as a horrible looking combination of pale grey Kill Team genestealer cultists, darker grey Necromunda gingers and bright red Blackstone Fortress characters. Unpainted they looked weird.
I bought two Contrast paints yesterday to try on some Song of Ice and Fire models that I quickly prepped last night. Since I ain't lettin' GW tell me how to paint, I tried some stuff that will actually be of use to me. After all, we already know that the paints are supposed to work as advertised on the Contrast specific primers.
First batch was primed with Zandri Dust, which I haven't used much in the past and found actually came out pretty smooth. I imagine this is fairly close to how you would expect the Contrast primers to look and fell, but of course I don't actually know. Left to right, Wyldwood; Wyldwood for the furry bits and some belts, everything else is Snakebite Leather; and just Snakebite Leather.
Second batch was primed Mechanicus Standard Grey, which ended up a little grainy either because of the age of the can or because of mishandling. Possibly both. Either way, the plan was to mirror the above approach and the model on the left was painted with Wyldwood. That pretty much instantly turned out not to work, but I finished the model with it anyway to see if fully drying would achieve anything. It didn't.
I just assumed that the grey was too grey or too dark or both and gave the other two models a quick drybrush. The one in the middle is Fortress Grey, the one on the right Pallid Wych Flesh. Both paints aren't exactly spry anymore, so more grain for the grain god! As above, the one in the middle got both Wyldwood and Snakebite Leather, the other one just Snakebite Leather.
On to the things I found of interest.
I realize it's advertised as working best on smooth surfaces, but at least for leather look I found the grainy base layer appealing. The paint still pools and produces light to dark contrast, but the grainy surface breaks up the large, empty areas and allows the paint to dry unevenly and add a bit of texture. I like that. As a next step I'd prepped the surface with a few spatters of green and red before the Contrast paint goes on to enhance that effect. Most importantly, since I'm not too interested in painting large quantities of models to the low standard a quick paintjob with Contrast provides (really, the Song of Ice and Fire models are the only ones I currently intend to treat like that), I was primarily looking for alternate uses for Contrast, and this has me intrigued the most.
Contrast feels like a gloppy wash that flows into recesses but at the same time has the decency to defy gravity and stick around on open surfaces where you can play around with it and control how much pigment you want to build up. That's interesting and needs some getting used to.
As Voss already said. if you want to work with it effectively it is absolutely crucial that you learn how a given color interacts with its base layer. I only have those two paints so I won't be able to widely experiment, but it seems to me that that grey provides an all told darker appearance (and thus less contrast overall) and beige peeks through the Contrast paint a lot more (so more contrast between the lightest and darkest bits). Who knows what other colors do. So it won't do to just slap on paint and hope for the best, this is something you want to know about before you paint.
Overall I'm pretty happy with how Contrast feels. Time for more mad science.
Anyone have a rundown/ review of the new base paints? some of them look pretty awesome, but I havn't seen much about them around.
As for Contrast paints, they are magic, painted up a really good bloodletter in 5 minutes. Can I do better with traditional paints? yes, but it would take me hours, not minutes. I may have to go back and buy a bunch more colours.
hotsauceman1 wrote: What we are saying is basic painting isnt that hard to do.
and i have tried contrast now and its quite frankly, meh.
and it annoying to work with too. so I can see a noob having problems
So GW Marketing this as noob friendly is a a lie
This is so wrong I don't even know where to start. Normal painting is really hard for noobs, starting with paint job looking like garbage if the paint is not thinned enough (or too thinned and requires 4 layers plus lots of drying time to cover anything). Then there is brush control and not leaving strokes and smudges, trying to paint small details and needing constant re-dos, and that's just with normal acrylic paints. I remember being extremely unhappy when I first tried agrax shading, because two of my brushes outright refused to work with it, and the third left splodgy, bad cover requiring redoing of whole model. This is one of the best GW shades, I already know how to paint, guess how crushed a new painter would be trying it (and probably getting far worse results than I did)? Hell, one of my friends, who has been painting for years, tried to do yellow paint scheme + shade recently on new CSM - and I had to listen to complains how bad end result was for weeks.
Compare that to contrast, which doesn't require thinning, covers everything perfectly, does not obscure details, has tons of different uses and applications right out of pot, there is literally nothing in it that isn't noob friendly. Even the 'and now retouch spots you obscured with another contrast paint and put on intended one' is much better for morale of new painters than 'and now re-do all the wrong spots you messed up, you loser' you have with old paints because it's both expected and much faster and easier to do.
Finally, just look at the models bullyboy and ZenBadger did. This is pretty good, nice tabletop standard that looks vastly better than what new player can produce with traditional paints - and noobs can get such results by the end of first squad if they have someone who can show them proper brush control. And that with just 4-5 paints, instead of 20+ paints, washes, shades, etc junk they would need the old way...
hotsauceman1 wrote: What we are saying is basic painting isnt that hard to do.
and i have tried contrast now and its quite frankly, meh.
and it annoying to work with too. so I can see a noob having problems
So GW Marketing this as noob friendly is a a lie
This is so wrong I don't even know where to start. Normal painting is really hard for noobs, starting with paint job looking like garbage if the paint is not thinned enough (or too thinned and requires 4 layers plus lots of drying time to cover anything). Then there is brush control and not leaving strokes and smudges, trying to paint small details and needing constant re-dos, and that's just with normal acrylic paints. I remember being extremely unhappy when I first tried agrax shading, because two of my brushes outright refused to work with it, and the third left splodgy, bad cover requiring redoing of whole model. This is one of the best GW shades, I already know how to paint, guess how crushed a new painter would be trying it (and probably getting far worse results than I did)? Hell, one of my friends, who has been painting for years, tried to do yellow paint scheme + shade recently on new CSM - and I had to listen to complains how bad end result was for weeks.
Compare that to contrast, which doesn't require thinning, covers everything perfectly, does not obscure details, has tons of different uses and applications right out of pot, there is literally nothing in it that isn't noob friendly. Even the 'and now retouch spots you obscured with another contrast paint and put on intended one' is much better for morale of new painters than 'and now re-do all the wrong spots you messed up, you loser' you have with old paints because it's both expected and much faster and easier to do.
Finally, just look at the models bullyboy and ZenBadger did. This is pretty good, nice tabletop standard that looks vastly better than what new player can produce with traditional paints - and noobs can get such results by the end of first squad if they have someone who can show them proper brush control. And that with just 4-5 paints, instead of 20+ paints, washes, shades, etc junk they would need the old way...
Someone on our facebook group posted pictures of their 4 year old painting deathguard with contrast. He was at tabletop standard with 3 paints thanks to how the contrast shades itself making it look like he used 9.
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spaceelf wrote: Has anyone compared the contrast paints to other paints, such as valejos translucent paints, or woodgrain?
I would be very interested if someone colour matched Vallejo primers to the new GW undercoats. This is the best I can come up with based on pictures, but Vallejo's color charts are all over the place and in some catalogs Ghost Grey looks lighter than Grey and in some darker, same with Israeli Sand vs Desert Tan.
spaceelf wrote: Has anyone compared the contrast paints to other paints, such as valejos translucent paints, or woodgrain?
Ones apples, ones oranges.
They sound similar. I have used the valejos. They are translucent, like a wash. However, they are thicker and tend to stay where you put them moreso than a wash. The pooled areas are darker, while the other areas are like a stain.
I would be very interested if someone colour matched Vallejo primers to the new GW undercoats. This is the best I can come up with based on pictures, but Vallejo's color charts are all over the place and in some catalogs Ghost Grey looks lighter than Grey and in some darker, same with Israeli Sand vs Desert Tan.
The woods look great, and thanks for the color primer match as I have that grey brush on primer already.
I went and redid the dark one with a drybrush of Pallid Wych Flesh over patches of Deathworld Forest and Tuskgor Fur, followed by Snakebite Leather, to see what happens. That's the one on the left, with the one with Snakebite Leather over plain Pallid Wych Flesh on the right for comparison.
Green didn't seem to do anything, other than provide a surface for the Contrast paint to dry darkly. I think I can just about see the red one through the Contrast. I think I'm going to do that again with an intense red and green and see how they fare.
For leather I like how the patchy and multi-colored surface ended up with that pattern a lot more than equally sloppily applied Contrast paint pools on an even coat of paint.
This is over Vallejo Grey surface primer, all colours applied in about 5 minutes (but definitely should have let each one dry first as you can see some bleeding)
What are people's experiences with Contrast paints on alternative primers?
Is it the properties of the primer, the color of the primer, or both that are giving the "Contrast" effect?
The color of the primer will definitely impact the final color of the Contrast paint used over it. To get the best use of the Contrast paints' properties, the primer has to create a smooth surface, which I understand can be achieved with a satin varnish applied over the primer.
For completion's sake, the test models finished to a standard where I'd happily put them on the table:
As said, I only bought two brown Contrast paints, so the details are traditionally painted.
I'm a slow painter and these guys took me around two hours to paint. That's really fast by my standards. Say what you will, I would have loved to have Contrast paints available to me when I started painting. I certainly would have had a lot more painted Warhammer Fantasy models, even in the woeful drowning in dudes 8th ed.
As far as I'm concerned, GW achieved what they are advertising with these paints. Considering the effort I put into these is absolutely minimal, I'd say with some confidence that Contrast is valuable to new painters not just because they can get models painted swiftly and with shading and highlights sorting themselves out automatically, but also because this way of painting gets the large areas of a model quickly done and reduces the tedium of doing the same thing over and over again as you try to paint a whole squad, leaving you with the details to pick out which offers a lot more diversity and somewhat cuts down on the boredom of repetitive work.
So, thumbs up to GW.
One note on a downside that has seen plenty of mention already, but it did indeed seem to me that the paint rubs off pretty easily. I don't know if this gets better if the paint has time to properly set, but it needs to be said that it is a downside for something advertised for speed of painting, which naturally sees lots of handling in a short amount of time. I wouldn't take any chances and definitely seal the paint with varnish. If you intend to use Contrast on a larger/longer painting project, I'd even go so far as to seal right after the Contrast stage as it's way too easy to accidentally swipe over a painted section and possibly cause damage.
Skeletons were hand painted in Wraithbone (I quite like it as a base color, regardless of the Contrast line), then done with Skeleton Horde Contrast, and Seraphim and Agrax shades respectively. First shield is Talassar Blue, other two shields are Aethermatic.
I was having a lot of doubt about Skeleton Horde as a color over various primers, but at least it does work over Wraithbone. I can easily see someone sticking to Seaphim Sepia (or Reikland, really) and not worrying about it, however.
The two blues... I need to test Aethermatic over Grey Seer (which I don't have yet), but so far I'm not liking it on anything, even grey primer. Even in places where you want it to be somewhat weak, I think its too weak (you can see wraithbone peeking through in the photo, which is crazy to me). I picked it up because I've got a lot of Tzeentch stuff in the backlog, but I'm not sure its good even for that. Talassar, on the other hand, is a consistently amazing blue, and works over a variety a base colors.
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Nids: The 'stealer is traditional GW paints. Rakarth flesh, a bit of white drybrush, then Reikland Fleshshade. Carapace is Castellan green and (light) eshin grey. This is my overall color scheme for GSC (which I need to get to painting beyond a dozen stealers like this one)
The termagant isn't done, but is simply Wraithbone base, Guilliman flesh and Creed Camo. That's it.
I need to be a little less sloppy and do a few details (teeth, eyes, and the reds that are picked out on the genestealer) and it's table-ready. I can easily see churning out several dozen over a weekend. Biggest obstacle for me personally is many of the models in my backlog are done with a dark primer (AP Chaotic Red). That kind of dark primer just flat won't work with Contrast.
I'm not entirely sold of Guiliman Flesh for humans, though. Wraithbone base or grey base, with one coat it doesn't look quite right on people- too much of the base color comes through. I've got a two coat (over grey primer) rat ogre that looks fairly good for dark skin, however. Not perfect, as some areas still tend to grey, but it looks a lot more in the range of human flesh with two coats.
Skeletons were hand painted in Wraithbone (I quite like it as a base color, regardless of the Contrast line), then done with Skeleton Horde Contrast, and Seraphim and Agrax shades respectively. First shield is Talassar Blue, other two shields are Aethermatic.
I was having a lot of doubt about Skeleton Horde as a color over various primers, but at least it does work over Wraithbone. I can easily see someone sticking to Seaphim Sepia (or Reikland, really) and not worrying about it, however.
I like the Skeleton Horde tone the most of those three, but I would dilute it by half. At the end of the day they're all just brown washes over an off-white primer, so probably the least exciting use of the new tech
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
It looks fantastic. May I ask what colours you used for each part of the model?
Thanks, I used Aggaros Dunes all over Grey Seer first then picked out the armour in Creed Cammo, the belt, pouches and gaiters in Militarum Green then I reprimed the flesh in wraithbone and the metal with Stormhost Silver. The flesh was painted Guilliman Flesh and the metal in Templar Black. The gunstock and boots were finished in Wyldwood and the crests picked out in Grey Seer. Since then I have drybrushed the armour in Death Guard Green, painted the face using layers of Gore Grunta Fur or Guilliman Flesh mixed into Wraithbone, added eyes, and redone the metal with Stormhost Silver washed with Nuln Oil. I have also scraped the base off and repainted in Armageddon Dust, probably a further 20 minutes but now it is a miniature that could go in the cabinet.
This took a minute to wash all over with Aggaros Dunes, a 20 minute dry while I had a bite to eat then a further 14 minutes to paint the rest and base. Not too happy with the base but the contrast paints are good for a quick tabletop standard job. I am going to spend another 10 minutes giving it a quick drybrush, highlighting the metal and painting the face properly but apart from that I'm happy with the result.
It looks fantastic. May I ask what colours you used for each part of the model?
Thanks, I used Aggaros Dunes all over Grey Seer first then picked out the armour in Creed Cammo, the belt, pouches and gaiters in Militarum Green then I reprimed the flesh in wraithbone and the metal with Stormhost Silver. The flesh was painted Guilliman Flesh and the metal in Templar Black. The gunstock and boots were finished in Wyldwood and the crests picked out in Grey Seer. Since then I have drybrushed the armour in Death Guard Green, painted the face using layers of Gore Grunta Fur or Guilliman Flesh mixed into Wraithbone, added eyes, and redone the metal with Stormhost Silver washed with Nuln Oil. I have also scraped the base off and repainted in Armageddon Dust, probably a further 20 minutes but now it is a miniature that could go in the cabinet.
Those treasure chests on p.49 of the thread are easily the best wood effects I've seen that haven't required incredibly careful colour choices and 4+ layers of drybrushing. I'm sold on this as a time saver.
Tried out Contrast myself at GW Middlesbrough last week on two of the poxwalkers they were giving out as test models. No pics yet as I foolishly left them in work, but I was impressed with the results I got in my lunchhour with a too-big brush.
bullyboy wrote: A couple hours of work, not too shabby really. Nice way to knock out those extras you bought on a whim but never get around to painting
Skeletons were hand painted in Wraithbone (I quite like it as a base color, regardless of the Contrast line)...
The two blues... I need to test Aethermatic over Grey Seer (which I don't have yet), but so far I'm not liking it on anything, even grey primer. Even in places where you want it to be somewhat weak, I think its too weak (you can see wraithbone peeking through in the photo, which is crazy to me). I picked it up because I've got a lot of Tzeentch stuff in the backlog, but I'm not sure its good even for that.
I'm with you on liking the Wraithbone as a paint color.
One of the blog video reviews thought that Aethermatic Blue was more of a special effects color than a normal contrast shading color.
One other general thing is that everyone needs to let the paint dry completely before evaluating the final result of a color. Colors look completely different when wet and when dry.
timd wrote: One of the blog video reviews thought that Aethermatic Blue was more of a special effects color than a normal contrast shading color.
Aethermatic Blue really does look like a blue equivalent to Hexwraith Flame's green.
I like that, over Wraithbone, it appears to be a reasonably good match for the old Nihilak Oxide-on-white method of painting ghosts & spirits, but will be much easier to do.
Would love it if someone with a more extensive paint range than mine could confirm if the Vallejo Desert Tan is a good (ie can completely replace) match for Wraithbone - if only because VJ do paints in much bigger bottles!
eddieazrael wrote: Would love it if someone with a more extensive paint range than mine could confirm if the Vallejo Desert Tan is a good (ie can completely replace) match for Wraithbone - if only because VJ do paints in much bigger bottles!
godardc wrote: I'm a bit late but: are contrast a thing for hordes painting and new painters or do they bring something for older painters too ?
I think it depends on what you're painting.
Unsurprisingly, I think they're very good for doing marines to a reasonable standard, and this is true for a lot of models with a solid base color and not a lot of really nitpicky details. (Which includes craftworld eldar, tyranids, night goblins, skeletons and things like that). They're also good for straightforward accessories- straps and pouches and things (the line has a lot of colors that can be used for leather to offset the primary color)- one and done on this kind of thing is actually rather nice. And like leather, there are a lot of great ways to do wood that are so much easier.
One thing they won't save time on is if you have incompatible colors. If you have a Contrast color that needs a brown base rather than a grey base, you're either going to have to pick other contrast colors that use the same palette, or spend time applying a new base layer for the other paint, then painting and so forth. At that point you're better of using normal paints alongside your Contrast base color, because you aren't really saving time and steps anymore.
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On the other hand, I've got a bunch of Frostgrave gnolls that I was thinking about using Contrast on. It isn't shaping up all that great
The detail isn't great, but there are a lot of straps. And most of the fur and flesh is covered by a big shirt or tunic. I could do the tunics with Contrast if I had appropriate colors (and that matched the brown primer), but the 10 I picked up to experiment with don't really fit for what I want to do. Guiliman flesh over the primer isn't bad, but not quite what I had in mind, and there is surprisingly little fur (basically just a mane at the back of the head). I could use Contrast paints on some of it, but I'd have to wait for it to dry to do adjacent or overlapping areas, and all the straps really just would be faster with traditional paints. The scale and level of detail puts up some roadblocks I wasn't expecting. There are certainly elements to use Contrast paints on, but I think traditional paints and shades would be just as effective if not better with the specific trade offs offered by the models. An assortment of shirt colors, flesh color, leather straps, and just wash the whole thing with a shade.
But Wyldwood on the bows and shields, and a couple of Contrast colors on the manes to give them a more patchwork appearance wouldn't go amiss.
You also have to tidy up before applying another contrast color or you get the following termagant picture.
I really like Gore-Grunta Fur, but Gryph Charger Grey doesn't even really show over top of it. In fact, it doesn't really show over Wraithbone- it produces that streaky blueish-white effect. To do this model right, I'd have to go back over the armor plates in a light grey base color, then put Griff-Charger grey on that. Granted I had no particular reason to be that sloppy (used an oversized brush really quickly), but I could easily fix it with a non-Contrast paint. With Contrast you have to go all the way back to the base paint and start over.
I’ll have to find the pics, but has anyone seen that picture of Talassar Blue over Retributor Gold?
Looks great, really good as like a beetle carapace or maybe Alpha Legion Armour.
I’m for sure gonna paint up a Stormcast in that armour scheme..
Simple wood colors over reddish-brown.
Wyldwood--Basilicanum Grey--Gore Grunta Fur
One of the things I'm finding with contrast is sticking to Wraithbone and Grey Seer isn't necessary at all. It takes some experimentation, but [base]+[Contrast] changes the end result fundamentally. Contrast just picks up so much of the base color that it isn't just a matter of slapping so color on. You really need to do testing first to see what the end product is going to look like. Sometimes its just an intensifier, like the Contrast Red over the Khorne red in the above video. In other cases you get something very distinct like the blue over gold.
Necroagogo wrote: So I'm thinking of doing some arctic camo Cadians using the new paints. Which of the basecoat sprays would work best with Apothecary White?
Thanks for any advice from those who have dabbled!
Cant talk about the GW primers, but good old rustoleum white primer works well. Pic has the shields done in apothecary white and blood angels red.
After they dried (next morning as I had other projects to work on and family time, I drybrushed the red with a storage red and drybrushed Praxeti white over the apothecary white.
Give the contrasts 15-30 to dry as there is some slight color change when they dry completely.
Also, shake the hell out of them. The white looked white before I opened it, but once I started shaking it got looking more like Ulthuan grey, which it almost matches once dry, it’s the drybrush that really makes it white.
eddieazrael wrote: Would love it if someone with a more extensive paint range than mine could confirm if the Vallejo Desert Tan is a good (ie can completely replace) match for Wraithbone - if only because VJ do paints in much bigger bottles!
Glass houses, my friend. Who defines "well painted" or "badly painted"? It's not up to you how others paint their toy soldiers. If it's the best a person can do - or has time/the willingness to do, then it's still going to look better than bare grey plastic, bare metal or primed black/white/grey/etc.
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Albertorius wrote: I picked up four colors (mainly because the ravenous hordes apparently got there before, so...): black, orange, yellow and flesh, and a can of primer. And I've been experimenting a bit (Disclaimer: I only have a single, busted up brush from ages ago. Control is... not the best >_>:
First I painted a couple of Conan picts, which were primed a long time ago with Army Painter flesh and to which I overprimed a zenital light with Vallejo bone primer:
Spoiler:
I've only done the flesh of the second one, but I like it much better:
If you don't have time to paint, or don't want to paint, don't play 40k. As simple as that. Why playing one of the few hobbies you need time to glue and paint your models, which is probably the most important part of the hobby, if you don't want to do it / don't like it ? Go and play assault on the empire or smth.
But noone can or should tell someone it's model are badly painted etc if the guy did try. As long as they are not grey or just stupidly painted in a night before the tournament, they are great.
godardc wrote: If you don't have time to paint, or don't want to paint, don't play 40k. As simple as that. Why playing one of the few hobbies you need time to glue and paint your models, which is probably the most important part of the hobby, if you don't want to do it / don't like it ? Go and play assault on the empire or smth.
But noone can or should tell someone it's model are badly painted etc if the guy did try. As long as they are not grey or just stupidly painted in a night before the tournament, they are great.
It might be most important part of the hobby for YOU. Not so for others. Don't try to make claim your way is the right way.
Oh man, after seeing all those pictures I'm really pumped to try it myself. Unfortunately 7 of the 8 paints I've preodered are not available, so I guess it will be a short experience. Hopefully at least the one arrives today at my door.
godardc wrote: If you don't have time to paint, or don't want to paint, don't play 40k. As simple as that. Why playing one of the few hobbies you need time to glue and paint your models, which is probably the most important part of the hobby, if you don't want to do it / don't like it ? Go and play assault on the empire or smth.
But noone can or should tell someone it's model are badly painted etc if the guy did try. As long as they are not grey or just stupidly painted in a night before the tournament, they are great.
It might be most important part of the hobby for YOU. Not so for others. Don't try to make claim your way is the right way.
40k isn't a game but a Hobby, and is explicitly refered as such by GW. Most of us spend more time building and painting than actually gaming. It's not a claim, but a fact.
And for me the most important part is the background, reading the fluff.
But I'm not pretending that 40k and Assault on the Empire are the same thing, because they are not
You can totally paint your Risk models if you want, but that's not part of the Risk GAME. It is in the other hand, part of the 40k Hobby, whether you like it or not.
I have had a chance to use the contrast paints now. And I have to say that im pretty disappointed on the whole. While there are some stand out paints in the range that work well over the “special” GW basecoat, im struggling to see the ££ value in these “paints” compared to other product out there on the market. I use a mix of GW, P3 and Vallejo paints normally.
My first issue with these is the description and marketing of them. These are not paints. These are inks/washes with a very high pigmentation. There is nothing wrong with that as such, but I feel that GW is being somewhat misleading with its aggressive advertising. Anybody new to painting (the target audience we are told) will have issues transitioning to normal paints after using these as standard paints, even when thinned, work differently.
My second issue with theme is, because they are an ink/wash you have to load your brush and ensure that plenty of the mixture gets into recesses in the models. This makes painting details quite hard as the mix is harder to control. This means that you often get overspill and have to touch up. Which means that you may need a pot of the undercoat as well as a spray can. Very convenient for GW.
My third issue is that while some of the contrasts are very nice (some of the reds, purples, yellows, browns/leathers) many of the others are pretty awful in their coverage and final affect. The metals are dire.
On the whole im aggressively neutral on the paints themselves and think that GW have done an excellent but misleading campaign. This is not going to produce a host of table top ready armies where once there was only grey plastic. This will produce a number of “whashed” armies that don’t look all that impressive and quite frankly, new painters could probably achieve better results with normal paints. Also, as this thread is showing, this is not going to get reluctant painters sitting down and getting brush time in. I actually think that is will put people off as the results will be so varied.
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