DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
Shadenuat wrote: I would say for all the money spent on Citadel products over years, one could definitely afford themselves an airbrush. If you had to paint hundreds of models, you would probably already found out all the better ways of doing that. Which is why I pointed out that this new product is not really "a godsend" for people who need to paint lots of models.
Airbrushes are not an option for some people for simple space reasons.
Plus they're a pain in the ass. You have to clean them constantly, even good ones clog/jam, and they add a ton more time in the set up and break down stage. You need good ventilation and something to prevent overspray. I can't paint while watching TV with the family thanks to a noisy compressor.
I don't know what magic airbrush some people have been using, but mine was a colossal waste of time and money.
Yodhrin wrote: Or for noise reasons, I'm not sure my neighbours would appreciate hearing a compressor running at 2am("But but but" I can already here someone rushing to post - there are quiet ones, yes, and ones with big tanks, and they're both a lot more expensive than the basic cheapie import jobs that most people will buy and which airbrush advocates can use to say "it's cheaper than buying citadel"). Or for simple preference reasons. Something airbrush evangelists tend to forget is that's it's actually perfectly OK to simply prefer painting with a normal brush.
I don't mean to evangelize, but I often see hobbyists be oddly anti-airbrush for spurious reasons. Space? My cheapo Harbor Freight airbrush and compressor fit in a shoebox with room to spare. Noise? It's quieter than my microwave; I have no idea where people get the idea that airbrush compressors are loud. Ventilation? Cheap spray booth, doubles as a paint station for normal brushwork. All of it together cost the equivalent of about a hundred quid, which has paid for itself by eliminating the need for spray primer or varnish.
Personal preference is one thing, but for certain tasks (like mass undercoats, or zenithal highlighting) it really is the best tool for the job.
Best tool for the job n your opinion. Spray cans work perfectly fine for those jobs in my experience, and the long-term additional expense is, like these new paints, a price a lot of folk are willing to pay for convenience - rattlecans don't need to be cleaned or otherwise cared for beyond a quick inverted blast to clear the nozzle when done, they don't require equipment to use at all, nor do they require any appreciable degree of skill to use, or need you to fanny about thinning and mixing stuff.
You're very much operating from a place of "these things are not problems for me, so they are not problems at all", a common attitude among airbrush evangelists.
Rattlecans run out of paint really fast and are incredibly wasteful of paint.
Neither of which affects their ability to do the job, even to the extent they're actually true. I could follow the example of some other posters and make smarmy remarks about how you're only having that experience because you've just not bothered to learn how to use rattlecans properly, but since I'm not actually trying to convince anyone their tool of choice is badwrong and inadequate and they should use my tool of choice instead, there's no need for that kind of thing.
Yodhrin wrote: You're very much operating from a place of "these things are not problems for me, so they are not problems at all", a common attitude among airbrush evangelists.
I'm operating from a place of having spent a lot of time and effort with both methods, and turned to airbrushing to alleviate the problems I had with rattlecans.
There are a number of legitimate reasons to dislike airbrushes that I won't argue with. 'They're loud enough to wake up the neighbors' isn't one of them. It makes it sound like your complaints come from misinformation and speculation, rather than actual experience. Maybe that's why you have a recurring problem with 'evangelists'. Maybe some of them are fellow hobbyists trying to help you out.
I try to give everything a fair shake for myself before passing judgment. Hence my looking forward to trying out Contrast.
My hobby room is downsizing due to a second child.
I think we can all agree this is a worse situation than deciding what method to paint with.
(I’ll tie it in by just saying, it’s one of my reasons for not airbrushing. Lack of space. Time with the kids also gets in the way ).
I’m assuming there are some jars or pots that connect onto the airbrush so you could keep the paint in the jar when you switch between colours and stuff? That would save a chunk of the time, no decanting or any of that side.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Anybody else mentally queuing up potential projects and uses for these paints? I'm up to four with just the blacks and greys already
Space Marines (assorted chapters)
Orks (40k)
Orks (Generic fantasy)
Death Guard
Sisters of Battle (when available)
plus any and all scenery and just about all basing.
I suspect a lot of my paints will now be relegated to fine edges and spot details.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Anybody else mentally queuing up potential projects and uses for these paints? I'm up to four with just the blacks and greys already
Space Marines (assorted chapters)
Orks (40k)
Orks (Generic fantasy)
Death Guard
Sisters of Battle (when available)
plus any and all scenery and just about all basing.
I suspect a lot of my paints will now be relegated to fine edges and spot details.
I have a backlog of River Trolls and Gors who all need painted, I hope these can help clear up.
I also started painted metallic red Red Corsairs, but now wounder if I should hold off to see if I like the red contrast over gold look more.
I do like the Instar metallics I got and seem abit better for when I do my vheciles? I will need to test and compare.
Carlovonsexron wrote: you might have better luck with red contrast over silver- I iagine the yellow in gold might change the color of the red into an orange.
This is Red contrast, over gold, and with a silver high light. The yellow of the Gold helps to make the Red look Warmer. It's the same reason FW used gold as the base for their Clear Red paint to paint their 1Ksons.
I'm thinking of using the contrast colors for my tzeentch mortals (still not primed).
But I don't like to use the rattle can primers. Maybe it will be possible to aribrush-prime them white, give them a smooth coat of varnish and then work with the new contrast colours... in theory, that should work quite well, shouldn't it?
Nibbler wrote: I'm thinking of using the contrast colors for my tzeentch mortals (still not primed).
But I don't like to use the rattle can primers. Maybe it will be possible to aribrush-prime them white, give them a smooth coat of varnish and then work with the new contrast colours... in theory, that should work quite well, shouldn't it?
I won't be using cans. I have a multitude of primers so I'll be testing them all on casting scraps with contrast paints. I'll report back on dakka once the paints are released and I've tried them
I suspect it will be okay over any sufficiently light coloured primer. The matte or glossy nature of primers (most are usually more matte) will probably have some effect on how well the contrast paint settles on open flat areas.
Nibbler wrote: I'm thinking of using the contrast colors for my tzeentch mortals (still not primed).
But I don't like to use the rattle can primers. Maybe it will be possible to aribrush-prime them white, give them a smooth coat of varnish and then work with the new contrast colours... in theory, that should work quite well, shouldn't it?
At the event it was stated that their is actually nothing special about the base coat. It's just two new colours they introduced as both can+paint pots, that work well as base colours for contrast paints. It's just a Warm off white and Cold off white.
Shadenuat wrote: I don't think people are "fanboys", they just got some results and are using tools which worked for them. It's normal. I'm not critical of just some random person. I am however critical of Citadel way of painting because I think it doesn't teach people important basics and to love painting. Their whole obsession is to make painting to end as soon as possible as like some sort of a chore between buying models and playing. While taking more money from people than what I consider reasonable and selling stuff which I just find kinda bizarre.
Funnily enough it IS chore and annoyance for many...Those prefer to play with bare plastic and paint only if they can't play due to say tournament enforcing minimum level of painting.
And you know what? That is just as valid way to enjoy miniature games as yours.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
How do you get 100% exact same thin ratio year after year consistently?
Shadenuat wrote: I don't think people are "fanboys", they just got some results and are using tools which worked for them. It's normal. I'm not critical of just some random person. I am however critical of Citadel way of painting because I think it doesn't teach people important basics and to love painting. Their whole obsession is to make painting to end as soon as possible as like some sort of a chore between buying models and playing. While taking more money from people than what I consider reasonable and selling stuff which I just find kinda bizarre.
Funnily enough it IS chore and annoyance for many...Those prefer to play with bare plastic and paint only if they can't play due to say tournament enforcing minimum level of painting.
And you know what? That is just as valid way to enjoy miniature games as yours.
Yeah, I’ve never enjoyed painting. It frustrates me, takes me ages, and while I could improve/get faster, I don’t enjoy it so don’t feel the inclination to.
However, after trying the new contrast paints at the weekend, I’m actually excited to paint. So I would say so far, they’ve done a better job of ‘teaching me to love painting’ than anything else has before now.
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
This photo has already came up in this thread. Red contrast paint over a gold undergoat, with silver highlights.
Spoiler:
You can't do that with "watered down paints". These are proper transparent paints.
Carlovonsexron wrote: you might have better luck with red contrast over silver- I iagine the yellow in gold might change the color of the red into an orange.
This is Red contrast, over gold, and with a silver high light. The yellow of the Gold helps to make the Red look Warmer. It's the same reason FW used gold as the base for their Clear Red paint to paint their 1Ksons.
It's a bit surprising but the truth. ^^
Spoiler:
I agree. Red over gold.
I’ve found that the red over silver can often give you a cold, duller look, whereas the red over gold provides a warmer, richer red on larger things like armour.
That said, for small details like eye lenses, the FW clear paints over stormhost silver is fantastic.
Will test the new contrast stuff over both again to see what I think.
tneva82 wrote: Funnily enough it IS chore and annoyance for many...Those prefer to play with bare plastic and paint only if they can't play due to say tournament enforcing minimum level of painting.
And you know what? That is just as valid way to enjoy miniature games as yours.
If that was so sports would have been played with grey plastic, and sports people usually care the least for how their army looks, there are many which are into it just for the game. You're in a hobby where people band together to create something beautiful, the armies, the tables, the terrain; and if you think that going with unpainted army around people who put their time and effort to paint theirs is as valid, you're wrong.
tneva82 wrote: Funnily enough it IS chore and annoyance for many...Those prefer to play with bare plastic and paint only if they can't play due to say tournament enforcing minimum level of painting.
And you know what? That is just as valid way to enjoy miniature games as yours.
If that was so sports would have been played with grey plastic, and sports people usually care the least for how their army looks, there are many which are into it just for the game. You're in a hobby where people band together to create something beautiful, the armies, the tables, the terrain; and if you think that going with unpainted army around people who put their time and effort to paint theirs is as valid, you're wrong.
Stop trying to gatekeep. If people play and enjoy themselves, that's all that matters.
It is an interesting word - gatekeeping, people really like to throw it around. I did not start this, mind you - I was talking about Citadel, and it's the person after which turned it personal.
Are you going to argue that unpainted army is as good as painted one, i.e. brings one same amount of joy? Because it is objectively false.
Shadenuat wrote: It is an interesting word - gatekeeping, people really like to throw it around. I did not start this, mind you - I was talking about Citadel, and it's the person after which turned it personal.
Are you going to argue that unpainted army is as good as painted one, i.e. brings one same amount of joy? Because it is objectively false.
It's interesting how people use "objectively" continually without knowing what it means. But yes it does bring joy, for both sides. I never go to the table without a fully painted and based collection. But i'd never turn down a game against unpainted because i'd lose out with a fun game against an opponent. It's that simple really.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Anybody else mentally queuing up potential projects and uses for these paints? I'm up to four with just the blacks and greys already
Space Marines (assorted chapters)
Orks (40k)
Orks (Generic fantasy)
Death Guard
Sisters of Battle (when available)
plus any and all scenery and just about all basing.
I suspect a lot of my paints will now be relegated to fine edges and spot details.
For continuity, the Conquest mag Primaris and Death Guard will continue with my current methods.
Upcoming Sisters and the Anvil Gothic Nuns may see me dabbling with the new paints.
Additionally, having seen the Skitarii transport, I may have to try out a Start Collecting box for some Vanguard Skitarii.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's interesting how people use "objectively" continually without knowing what it means. But yes it does bring joy, for both sides. I never go to the table without a fully painted and based collection. But i'd never turn down a game against unpainted because i'd lose out with a fun game against an opponent. It's that simple really.
Why do you bother painting yours though, if fun is all what matters and playing with unpainted army is just as valid?
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's interesting how people use "objectively" continually without knowing what it means. But yes it does bring joy, for both sides. I never go to the table without a fully painted and based collection. But i'd never turn down a game against unpainted because i'd lose out with a fun game against an opponent. It's that simple really.
Why do you bother painting yours though, if fun is all what matters and playing with unpainted army is just as valid?
Because I enjoy it. I find painting relaxing, but I don't consider it a necessity. As stated earlier in the thread, other people hate it. I don't expect other people to force themselves to do something if they don't enjoy it. But to keep this on track, I won't be using these paints initially, as all my current projects are between 30 and 75% completed currently and there's no point trying to recreate with these new ones. However when I start a new project, I think i'll pick these up and have some fun experimenting with the colours.
tneva82 wrote: Funnily enough it IS chore and annoyance for many...Those prefer to play with bare plastic and paint only if they can't play due to say tournament enforcing minimum level of painting.
And you know what? That is just as valid way to enjoy miniature games as yours.
If that was so sports would have been played with grey plastic, and sports people usually care the least for how their army looks, there are many which are into it just for the game. You're in a hobby where people band together to create something beautiful, the armies, the tables, the terrain; and if you think that going with unpainted army around people who put their time and effort to paint theirs is as valid, you're wrong.
How nice of you go holier than thou "I know what's right for everybody"
Or maybe consider that your narrow viewpoint isn't only viewpoint to the game?
We are not rehashing the painted/unpainted argument yet again and we are certainly not going to do so in a N&R thread. Please drop that tangent.
Thanks,
ingtaer.
drbored wrote: The first group seem to be saying "Wow this looks great, I'm excited to try this out!" (Fine by me!). The second group seems to be saying "Meh. Not for me, I can't see the value here" (Yay, that's my opinion too!). Then the third group, the group that I don't understand, the group that seems a bit strange to me, is saying stuff like "It's like there's a group of trolls in here trying to convince people not to buy this paint? What does anyone care if someone else buys a paint?". (A quote from you!). Like I say, I'm imagining that I'm in the second group, and I can only think that the people in this third group (the group I don't understand, the group that I'm grouping you into) are talking about the people in my group! They certainly aren't talking about the guys in the first group are they? Then again maybe I'm not following the conversation properly and there aren't any groups at all (That's probably most likely! I'm tired and your talk of a sinister "group" probably has me reading things into the situation that aren't there).
No there's definitely a group arguing that these are just a re-release of GW inks, or they're nothing new, and GW are just trying to rip people off. Like this person:
DanceOfSlaanesh wrote: Before contrast paints: Why do these paints have so bad coverage?!?!
After contrast paints: Wow look how transparent these paints are!! Magic!!
Seriously guys, that's all there is to it. Add water, glaze medium what ever, paint over a bright smooth primer you achieve the same effect.
The "water, glaze medium what ever" is the key there. It's a new type of medium used in this paint. It's certainly not magic or revolutionary, but it is formulated specifically for painting this way. Can you approximate something similar with other mediums? Sure. As people have pointed out, people have been painting this way for years using mediums designed for other things. What GW have done, is create a medium designed just for this method of painting.
The other difference is that the new medium is the only medium used in the paint. When you mix a regular paint (Citadel, Vallejo, whoever) with a glazing medium you're getting a paint with part glazing medium, part regular acrylic medium that was in the paint to start with. These pots you get the pigment mixed just with the new medium.
That's what is new. It's not much. It's not much different from what you can do already. But it is different. Literally, chemically, different. Like all GW stuff, it comes at a premium, and if that premium is worthwhile to you when you can mix up something similar for a lot cheaper is certainly a valid question.
A 'great' tabletop level is fully painted in basic colours. Any sort of shading and highlighting is an extra.
Not sure if serious.
Oh, he is. I can only assume you've never seen an army uniformly well-painted to basecoat level, on a fully-painted tabletop against a similar army. it's quite common in historical mass-battle games (which is where the "dip" technique originated, precisely because it build on that basecoat level and is a single step to do). No-body cares that the tunics aren't highlighted, that the details aren't picked out and shaded, because the visual appeal of an army of 300 miniatures is in the mass. In the time it might take to "properly" paint one miniature to your standard, I could bash out an entire 30-model unit, and my army will look better on the tabletop than your grey horde interspersed with one or two finished models. :0
You're conflating the absolute minimum, "I don't want to paint, but the event rules say I need to" level of "three colours" with properly, carefully painted models. the key is neatness and appropriate use of colours. There's plenty of horrible messy models posted by beginners on the internet because they've been suckered in by the idea that "properly" painted models have to be shaded, highlighted and whatnot. Nonsense. They're all advanced techniques. 80% of the effect is done by painting the base coats carefully, neatly and using appropriate colour choices.
Danny76 wrote: I also think of paint wastage, pouring into the airbrush, some will be wasted in the lip etc.
I don't think there is any other champion of paint wastage as the Citadel (TM) pot.
Perhaps it's me, but I waste more paint from dropper bottles than I ever have from Citadel paint pots (even including the occasions where I've spilled a tall pot of Shade). Is it because I store the Vallejo paints horizontally? I shake the pots to mix the medium and pigment up before each time I open them, and half the time trapped air or something pushes half the paint out of the pot when all I wanted was to paint one gemstone. the variable consistency of the Game Color paints means getting a single drop can be difficult (compounded by the occasions when the paint has clumped in the bottle, resulting in nothing coming out until the blockage clears, then a huge splodge on the palette.). The nozzles split, too, making it more likely for excess paint to clog the threads of the caps. they're better than the infamous "bolter shell" screw-top pots, but that's not saying much.
That's what is new. It's not much. It's not much different from what you can do already. But it is different. Literally, chemically, different. Like all GW stuff, it comes at a premium, and if that premium is worthwhile to you when you can mix up something similar for a lot cheaper is certainly a valid question.
I'm willing to pay premium for consistency. If they do same as with mixing then ready bottled is superior product in itself because I don't have to remember exact ratio possibly years later.
Mixing might be cheaper but will also result in non-uniform look. For some things(ork skin) it's no big deal. Skin can vary in tone. Uniform armour colour though...well let's just say would suck if my parts of my blood angels look different to others. As it is I have total blockage with my IG vehicles as I can't figure way to replicate the original shade. Starting to be at point thinking repainting every vehicle I have(some 12 or so) to get back into look I can replicate...
While I probably won't get a ton of use out of the stuff for my guard and Deathwatch, I've got a ton of smaller projects that I've been putting off that I'm actually excited to try this for. While I'll need normal paint for details, highlights, and metallics, this stuff should make a very nice base coat.
Thinking this may finally get me painting (or at least basecoating) all of my Reaper Bones I've had kicking around in boxes for five or so years.
Will be interesting to see if the Contrast paint adheres directly to the older white Bones material, how well the spray primers will hold up over either Bones colors, and what the material itself will do one the paint dries and there's some flexibility to the model.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Anybody else mentally queuing up potential projects and uses for these paints? I'm up to four with just the blacks and greys already
Space Marines (assorted chapters)
Orks (40k)
Orks (Generic fantasy)
Death Guard
Sisters of Battle (when available)
plus any and all scenery and just about all basing.
I suspect a lot of my paints will now be relegated to fine edges and spot details.
I just bought the demons of khorne start collecting and was dreading painting them. This should work out pretty well. My troll army as well.
I got an airbrush for mass under coats, and I much prefer a rattle can. Spent much more time cleaning the airbrush than anything else.
Honestly read that as mass murder coats.
I have an compressor and 3 different airbrushes. one for lacquer, one for acrylic, and one for base coating. and man cleaning them sucks.
i do whatever in my power to get a rattle can that gets more as close as possible to what im looking for. except varnish.
nothing iv used protects and coats like the alcald II varnishes.
You guys really prefer rattle cans to priming with an airbrush? I'll never go back to rattle cans. But then where I live the weather changes and humidity makes spray cans problematic. I've never really had a problem with cleaning my airbrushes. But I'm really paranoid about not letting paint setup in them. If the bottled Contrast primers are too expensive we can always just decant them into a plastic cup and airbrush them.
drbored wrote: Good lord, why are people still arguing about these things?
If you're going to buy it, buy it. If you're not, don't.
Isn't it really that simple? What am I missing here?
It's a mortal insult to 'real' hobbyists if you paint the wrong way, apparently.
Unfortunately, it's always been that we. We saw the same sorts of arguments years ago about dipping. Before that it was about drybrushing. I'm sure if the internet had been a thing back when acrylic paints were invented, there would have been the same arguments from the Enamel crowd that you're not painting properly if you can just clean your brush in water...
It's not entirely illogical. If you've spent a lot of time and effort learning how to do something a certain way, and then something comes along that appears to devalue that effort by making it easier and quicker to get similar results, it's easy to feel a little miffed about it. The thing people need to make more of an effort to remember is that it doesn't actually change the effort you put into your own work. At the end of the day, when so many people put a higher value on games featuring fully painted armies, anything that makes it easier for those people who struggle to get stuff painted to actually do so is a good thing.
drbored wrote: Good lord, why are people still arguing about these things?
If you're going to buy it, buy it. If you're not, don't.
Isn't it really that simple? What am I missing here?
Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
JWBS wrote: Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
Better be careful here, you don't want to become one of them Real Hobbyists who mix paint and stuff.
JSG wrote: The only thing that will make minis painted with this stuff look bad is people only using three colours to paint a whole model.
How is that worse than using say ultramarine blue, black and gunmetal to paint their model? I would think these one would make more interesting with at least some shading than 3 flat colours...
JWBS wrote: Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
Better be careful here, you don't want to become one of them Real Hobbyists who mix paint and stuff.
Please, everyone knows "Real Hobbyists" grind their own pigments and use hand made brushes.
JWBS wrote: Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
Better be careful here, you don't want to become one of them Real Hobbyists who mix paint and stuff.
Please, everyone knows "Real Hobbyists" grind their own pigments and use hand made brushes.
I draw the line at raising my own horses though. Much easier to just sneak into the stables under the cover of night and trim their tails.
I got an airbrush for mass under coats, and I much prefer a rattle can. Spent much more time cleaning the airbrush than anything else.
Honestly read that as mass murder coats.
I have an compressor and 3 different airbrushes. one for lacquer, one for acrylic, and one for base coating. and man cleaning them sucks.
i do whatever in my power to get a rattle can that gets more as close as possible to what im looking for. except varnish.
nothing iv used protects and coats like the alcald II varnishes.
You guys really prefer rattle cans to priming with an airbrush? I'll never go back to rattle cans. But then where I live the weather changes and humidity makes spray cans problematic. I've never really had a problem with cleaning my airbrushes. But I'm really paranoid about not letting paint setup in them. If the bottled Contrast primers are too expensive we can always just decant them into a plastic cup and airbrush them.
Weather changes and humidity aren't as relevant as people insist they are. Is it dry? Spray closer. Damp? Spray a bit further away. Cold? Warm the can in a water bath for ten minutes before you shake it and bring the model inside once you've sprayed it. Really sunny? Work in the shade. I've rattlecan primed in the ostensibly-impossible conditions of very arid -2C and it came out no problem at all. The issue with rattlecans is a lot of people assume they require no effort, when the reality is they require less effort - it still takes a bit of attention and care to use them right.
For me personally, a quick check of the met office website and a minor adjustment to technique is more appealing than having to faff with compressors and paint consistency and cleaning etc - I'd rather pay an extra ~15p per model on an ongoing basis for the convenience of rattlecans than pay the larger one-time expense for an airbrush and exchange that long term spend for effort.
JWBS wrote: Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
Better be careful here, you don't want to become one of them Real Hobbyists who mix paint and stuff.
Please, everyone knows "Real Hobbyists" grind their own pigments and use hand made brushes.
I draw the line at raising my own horses though. Much easier to just sneak into the stables under the cover of night and trim their tails.
The only reason manufacturers use sable is because it's "Immoral" to harvest human eyelashes.
JWBS wrote: Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
Better be careful here, you don't want to become one of them Real Hobbyists who mix paint and stuff.
Please, everyone knows "Real Hobbyists" grind their own pigments and use hand made brushes.
I draw the line at raising my own horses though. Much easier to just sneak into the stables under the cover of night and trim their tails.
The only reason manufacturers use sable is because it's "Immoral" to harvest human eyelashes.
But...I was planning on growing these bad boy manlashes out to make bank.
Ah well, back to the makeup youtube videos game!
I'm curious as to how many non painters will use these paints as
an opportunity to paint or if we'll just end up with current painters
using them to shore up some mass projects.
This sounds ideal for a painter like myself. I have been applying two *thin* coats of base paint over white, then adding a wash.
Consistency can be tricky for the base costs, so if this is consistent and a “one-coat” for the base, and I can still put a wash on to further define detail, I’d be very happy.
I’m a neat painter by nature, so I plan to buy a few to try on some Kill Teams I’ve got in the works. Should I get to them... I’play post some pics.
Carlovonsexron wrote: you might have better luck with red contrast over silver- I iagine the yellow in gold might change the color of the red into an orange.
This is Red contrast, over gold, and with a silver high light. The yellow of the Gold helps to make the Red look Warmer. It's the same reason FW used gold as the base for their Clear Red paint to paint their 1Ksons.
Carlovonsexron wrote: you might have better luck with red contrast over silver- I iagine the yellow in gold might change the color of the red into an orange.
This is Red contrast, over gold, and with a silver high light. The yellow of the Gold helps to make the Red look Warmer. It's the same reason FW used gold as the base for their Clear Red paint to paint their 1Ksons.
It's a bit surprising but the truth. ^^
Spoiler:
May I please have this recipe?
GW clear red and which gold?
It’s the new red CONTRAST paint coming out in June. Looks like he painted it over retributor gold primer, then added silver highlights.
A review from someone that was at Warhammer Fest. Shows the Black Templar contrast paint pretty well, and also a yellow and a purple metallic space marine done with the contrast paints.
The single coat flesh on the unhelmeted space marine also looks decent.
Redemption wrote: A review from someone that was at Warhammer Fest. Shows the Black Templar contrast paint pretty well, and also a yellow and a purple metallic space marine done with the contrast paints.
Spoiler:
The single coat flesh on the unhelmeted space marine also looks decent.
drbored wrote: Good lord, why are people still arguing about these things?
If you're going to buy it, buy it. If you're not, don't.
Isn't it really that simple? What am I missing here?
Are you missing the fact that people can make their decisions and then discuss those decisions on a public forum? Let me know if you need further guidance.
If we were talking about the merits of picking a chainfist over a powerfist, I'd totally understand some of these arguments. Instead, it just seems like people are screaming at each other for daring to buy a GW paint or not.
greatbigtree wrote: This sounds ideal for a painter like myself. I have been applying two *thin* coats of base paint over white, then adding a wash.
Consistency can be tricky for the base costs, so if this is consistent and a “one-coat” for the base, and I can still put a wash on to further define detail, I’d be very happy.
I’m a neat painter by nature, so I plan to buy a few to try on some Kill Teams I’ve got in the works. Should I get to them... I’play post some pics.
Absolutely. I had 11K of miniatures to paint *before* KS, and I'm sure it's a few more thousand by now.
Hobby paint companies need to understand that not all of us like to paint for the sake of painting, want display-level results, or have much time to paint. Finally, someone gets it.
Sure, it's just extra-thick wash (that doesn't use water as a medium) on top of primer. And many experienced painters know this technique. But it's never been popular because it's only been seen as an intermediate step, or was a speed paint with glazing and zenithal priming.
And if Contrast paints make it easier to enter the painting hobby, no doubt some of these new painters will find out they do enjoy painting and will continue into the hobby!
Perhaps it's me, but I waste more paint from dropper bottles than I ever have from Citadel paint pots (even including the occasions where I've spilled a tall pot of Shade). Is it because I store the Vallejo paints horizontally? I shake the pots to mix the medium and pigment up before each time I open them, and half the time trapped air or something pushes half the paint out of the pot when all I wanted was to paint one gemstone. the variable consistency of the Game Color paints means getting a single drop can be difficult (compounded by the occasions when the paint has clumped in the bottle, resulting in nothing coming out until the blockage clears, then a huge splodge on the palette.). The nozzles split, too, making it more likely for excess paint to clog the threads of the caps. they're better than the infamous "bolter shell" screw-top pots, but that's not saying much.
I haven't noticed a difference between storing dropper bottles horizontally or vertically. I do use glass beads as agitators in my bottles and an battery powered drill to spin mix my bottles. Which is definitely better than shaking when it comes to consistently mixing the paint and medium. I've never had an nozzles split on me but I bought a 100 empty dropper bottles of eBay to next to nothing to store my paint mixes. So if you have a problem with split nozzles to can get some cheaply so you'll always have some spare nozzles.
The first dropper bottle I ever used exploded on me because the tip was apparently clogged and given it was the first one I’d used I wasn’t sure how hard I was supposed to have to squeeze it.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Perhaps it's me, but I waste more paint from dropper bottles than I ever have from Citadel paint pots (even including the occasions where I've spilled a tall pot of Shade). Is it because I store the Vallejo paints horizontally? I shake the pots to mix the medium and pigment up before each time I open them, and half the time trapped air or something pushes half the paint out of the pot when all I wanted was to paint one gemstone. the variable consistency of the Game Color paints means getting a single drop can be difficult (compounded by the occasions when the paint has clumped in the bottle, resulting in nothing coming out until the blockage clears, then a huge splodge on the palette.). The nozzles split, too, making it more likely for excess paint to clog the threads of the caps. they're better than the infamous "bolter shell" screw-top pots, but that's not saying much.
Since you're not a Real Painter (tm) , here's what I do.
* Have a paperclip nearby to unclog nozzles.
* Since I don't mix or blend paints (bought too many on sale!), I (gasp) don't use a wet palette.
* Instead of putting the drop onto the wet palette, drip it into either the flip-top of the pot lid or a bottle of (again, gasp) craft paint. Shake the bottle first. I add a drop of thinner. Paint from the lid. This means I mess with the eyedroppers less.
* Or use a bottle cap as a dry palette to mix paints and thinner.
* Brush-prime with different colored primers.
* Use washes like crazy, including after priming. Use a dark wash on the shadow part of a blade, rather than different shades of metallics.
While I still put on details (eg. pupils, blood), I don't highlight figures. Or, rather, I'll leave a figure open to highlighting. Since I paint for boardgames, rather than internet photos, this has saved me a considerable amount of time. Now, I can get *all* the miniatures painted for a game, rather than only the characters!
I'll keep an eye out on the Contrast paints. You'll note that, in the demos, the paint was used for demons and Space Marines, which are easier to paint with Contrast paint (and base coat then washes) than, say, female and elven characters with fair skin. While I'll read threads discussing (and arguing) about painting wrt the purpose of a miniature (eg. display vs. gaming), I rarely see discussing efficient techniques for specific types of miniatures. You don't need an eye dropper and wet palette for every miniature, but, when you need them, you *really* do need them.
Have I missed the price point on this or is everyone unaware still?
This could genuinely get me back into the hobby. I can paint to a relatively decent tabletop standard. I'd probably say around or just above average, but I do not have the time to paint that way with the job and other hobbies (Admittedly I have to paint slow to get my best standard), and I cannot justify spending so much on models to not have them look at least respectable.
But this, this could do it for me. A squad/character a weekend over a few months and I could have a nice little force with the help of these paints.
Anyway, back to my original question, surely they will be a tad more expensive due to people needing less paint to paint this way (Reduced amount of base, ink and layering paints sold if a significant amount of people go down this route). They'd want to balance the sale/profit some how. Either that or the bottle won't last as long due to needing a thicker consistency.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Have I missed the price point on this or is everyone unaware still?
This could genuinely get me back into the hobby. I can paint to a relatively decent tabletop standard. I'd probably say around or just above average, but I do not have the time to paint that way with the job and other hobbies (Admittedly I have to paint slow to get my best standard), and I cannot justify spending so much on models to not have them look at least respectable.
But this, this could do it for me. A squad/character a weekend over a few months and I could have a nice little force with the help of these paints.
Anyway, back to my original question, surely they will be a tad more expensive due to people needing less paint to paint this way (Reduced amount of base, ink and layering paints sold if a significant amount of people go down this route). They'd want to balance the sale/profit some how. Either that or the bottle won't last as long due to needing a thicker consistency.
They're between the regular paints and the big wash pots in size, so I'm anticipating they'll cost the same as the big wash pots. If they're less, brilliant. If they're more...ehh, I'm hoping GW doesn't try and pull that nonsense.
I would be somewhat surprised if they went more expensive (per volume) than other paint. At the core, I think they’re looking to sell paint to people that don’t paint. So any sales in that market are better than no sales.
I also expect that their observed behaviour is that once people get comfortable with Contrast, they likely want to expand on that to improve small details, which would involve a detail brush and a couple of more standard paint pots.
And once people have some models that look good with minimal effort, maybe a little edge highlighting seems less frightening, so they get into that for characters, and they get used to that and they start doing it for their line infantry... the snowball grows.
The biggest obstacle to overcome is getting started, and seeing decent results. If the paints help with just that alone, they’ll be a boon to the community.
Especially if the community appreciates that painted minis look better then grey, and the elitism of “oh, they’re just contrast painted...” is avoided. I think this is a great time for the hobby.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Have I missed the price point on this or is everyone unaware still?
This could genuinely get me back into the hobby. I can paint to a relatively decent tabletop standard. I'd probably say around or just above average, but I do not have the time to paint that way with the job and other hobbies (Admittedly I have to paint slow to get my best standard), and I cannot justify spending so much on models to not have them look at least respectable.
But this, this could do it for me. A squad/character a weekend over a few months and I could have a nice little force with the help of these paints.
Anyway, back to my original question, surely they will be a tad more expensive due to people needing less paint to paint this way (Reduced amount of base, ink and layering paints sold if a significant amount of people go down this route). They'd want to balance the sale/profit some how. Either that or the bottle won't last as long due to needing a thicker consistency.
They're between the regular paints and the big wash pots in size, so I'm anticipating they'll cost the same as the big wash pots. If they're less, brilliant. If they're more...ehh, I'm hoping GW doesn't try and pull that nonsense.
It is GW kinda got to anticipate the non-sense. They have thus far made their own exchange rate and justify charging $30-40 from a model which the same size model in a set of 5 costs $40-50. So they don't use logic in their pricing they use business schemes. Limited producing box sets that have value, anything to push the profit margin. I don't see them changing their business practice expect them to cost the same as the larger washes/ base paints, even if they are not as big. With GW if you expect the worst that is the only way really to be happy then you will be less disappointed when they do something dick.
So anyway, any plans on finishing/starting army with these paints?
I actually though on starting a small Primaris army (max. 500-750 points) before but this gives me an excuse to toy around. Naturally I am going to base my force on Blood Angels althought I am not going to be that specific on that.
Sotahullu wrote: So anyway, any plans on finishing/starting army with these paints?
I actually though on starting a small Primaris army (max. 500-750 points) before but this gives me an excuse to toy around. Naturally I am going to base my force on Blood Angels althought I am not going to be that specific on that.
Yep. I'm going to try painting my 30k Emperors Children army with these paints. Doing the whites and purples should be a cinch.
Sotahullu wrote: So anyway, any plans on finishing/starting army with these paints?
I actually though on starting a small Primaris army (max. 500-750 points) before but this gives me an excuse to toy around. Naturally I am going to base my force on Blood Angels althought I am not going to be that specific on that.
I’m also doing a Primaris force (Emperors Spears), as well as some AdMech allies (mainly an excuse to get the new vehicle). Plus I have a lot of models unpainted already.
Yeah Im kind of in a similiar boat. I will keep painting the stuff I have primed but I'm hesitant to keep priming. Then again there will be a pot variant of the base you need for those I'm correct in thinking? I could overcoat the areas I want these to go on perhaps. Im pretty psyched for these tbf.
I’ve got a huge GSC Kill Team all built and ready to paint (annoyingly, I sprayed a couple black ready to try out schemes).
So I’ll get one of the new sprays, unless I can find my current bone colour if it’s light enough, and then a few pots of the main colours, would still do several areas with normal paints anyway I’d think, after getting the bulk done with these..
Unsure on what to do with my Primaris Kill Team..
Maybe on them too, but again, I’ve painted one up as a test, so not sure whether to continue on with that process..
Sotahullu wrote: So anyway, any plans on finishing/starting army with these paints?
I actually though on starting a small Primaris army (max. 500-750 points) before but this gives me an excuse to toy around. Naturally I am going to base my force on Blood Angels althought I am not going to be that specific on that.
Rolling back to this, I'm actually quite interested in this for my ancient Tyranid swarm (read: from when the plastics first came out ) that I never got around to primering all that much of. Reading that it'd be really good for organics seems to make that a pretty decent fit. Just a question of if the color of paints will work.
I'm also pondering if it'd be good for quick terrain to do this and then pick out a few details. My reservation there is the comments that it doesn't respond to wear as well as more traditional paint. Still, under enough sealer it probably wouldn't be a huge deal if it can do the job. Might work really well for AT particularly.
lord_blackfang wrote: I was just about to start on 50 Plaguebearers. I'll definitely wait for these paints.
Spray em and dip em. As fast if not faster. Super easy.
I may be a lazy painter but I'm not a monster.
I am...and I'm okay with this.
Spoiler:
Just colour-primed...painting a handful of details, dipped (heavily) and left shiny so they look slick and disgusting. 20 guys painted in maybe 2 hours. Considering I didn't want to paint them, not too bad.
Dipped in...dip? Army Painter Strong Tone dip. I didn't count the hour or so to build them. I didn't want to paint plaguebearers so I went with the easiest possible method.
I think you'll get very similar results though by hitting them with a similar colour primer (or white) and suitable contrast paints.
Dip is just wash+varnish (it's slightly modified wood varnish more or less) so it's all in the same vein of cheating.
kestral wrote: Being thinner, I wonder if it can be sprayed from an airbrush.
Going to guess not. It's not water based, or at least you can't thin it with water, iirc. It's also not targeted towards airbrush users. Did GW tell us what the solvent is?
kestral wrote: Being thinner, I wonder if it can be sprayed from an airbrush.
Going to guess not. It's not water based, or at least you can't thin it with water, iirc. It's also not targeted towards airbrush users. Did GW tell us what the solvent is?
From what I understand, it can be thinned with water but it can leave tide marks on the model if you do so.
Sotahullu wrote: So anyway, any plans on finishing/starting army with these paints?
I actually though on starting a small Primaris army (max. 500-750 points) before but this gives me an excuse to toy around. Naturally I am going to base my force on Blood Angels althought I am not going to be that specific on that.
Going to use them to paint War of the Ring. Hit each army with the contrast paint of its colour then paint in a few details. Won’t look realistic but should work well functionally and far better than just spraying each army a different base colour.
No no that wasn't about contrast paint - that was Contrast Paint - The Movie!
Though jokes aside a nice presentation and it was good to see a wide range of painters who are keen gamers, but who aren't all "within" GW itself talking well of the product in the open like that.
I think the pros really were selling Contrast as a gateway to “proper” painting. Finish painting a good looking model and hunger for something, a bit better. I think it’ll be good for serial beginners like myself and board gamers who want painted rather than monochrome plastic minis.
rayphoton wrote: Yeah, that video did way more to sell me on this as opposed to people who work for GW. Some of those artists I follow and have a lot of respect for.
This kind of post shows that people didn't actually pay attention to what was happening at the Tokyo trade event same time as Warhammerfest was doing open demos for people at the event.
Well, that was long video of people telling how amazing these paints are, instead of properly showing what they do. Now, I am convinced that these will be a good, but I'd really like to see a step by step painting process with these on couple of different models by a competent painter. Duncan, get to it!
Poor Duncan - first they are releasing Knights with spikes on them and now now they are releasing contrast paints and destroying his glory of being "two thin coats" man!
They'll likely have to retire him or spend copious amounts of time retraining him to say "one thick coat"
I'm a very cynical old git. I'v been around since 3rd ed 40k. I hate many things GW've pulled over the years- scale creep, toyification of the lines, I could go on.
However, I have to say, I love what they are doing with contrast and making things accessible to newcomers. I love Duncan and co's painting videos and so on. This is really positive work and I hope the company is rewarded heavily for it.
Warhammer Community has had ups and downs and makes me groan occasionally, but it has been a good effort I feel, in general.
Crimson wrote: Well, that was long video of people telling how amazing these paints are, instead of properly showing what they do. Now, I am convinced that these will be a good, but I'd really like to see a step by step painting process with these on couple of different models by a competent painter. Duncan, get to it!
It was apparently the 'all clear' signal for the people at the Painter's Weekend event they held to post up what they did there.
Tyler Mengel posted up these:
This one was "all Contrast, barring the metals over the off-white":
Spoiler:
This one was "a mix of Contrast and regular paints"
=Angel= wrote: I'm a very cynical old git. I'v been around since 3rd ed 40k. I hate many things GW've pulled over the years- scale creep, toyification of the lines, I could go on.
However, I have to say, I love what they are doing with contrast and making things accessible to newcomers. I love Duncan and co's painting videos and so on. This is really positive work and I hope the company is rewarded heavily for it.
Warhammer Community has had ups and downs and makes me groan occasionally, but it has been a good effort I feel, in general.
Contrast to get you started. Duncan and Peachy to keep you enthused and trying harder.
Luvverly.
Spesh when you compare to the old, old, old 'guides'. Paint it red! Like, put a line on it. MAGIC! Collect your Golden Demon!
rayphoton wrote: Yeah, that video did way more to sell me on this as opposed to people who work for GW. Some of those artists I follow and have a lot of respect for.
This kind of post shows that people didn't actually pay attention to what was happening at the Tokyo trade event same time as Warhammerfest was doing open demos for people at the event.
rayphoton wrote: Yeah, that video did way more to sell me on this as opposed to people who work for GW. Some of those artists I follow and have a lot of respect for.
This kind of post shows that people didn't actually pay attention to what was happening at the Tokyo trade event same time as Warhammerfest was doing open demos for people at the event.
How do you mean?
It wasn't just employees that were painting models using the new stuff. They had demo stations at Warhammerfest where anyone could use the stuff on preprimed models and there was a woman known for her painting showcasing the stuff in Tokyo.
rayphoton wrote: Yeah, that video did way more to sell me on this as opposed to people who work for GW. Some of those artists I follow and have a lot of respect for.
This kind of post shows that people didn't actually pay attention to what was happening at the Tokyo trade event same time as Warhammerfest was doing open demos for people at the event.
How do you mean?
It wasn't just employees that were painting models using the new stuff. They had demo stations at Warhammerfest where anyone could use the stuff on preprimed models and there was a woman known for her painting showcasing the stuff in Tokyo.
The horde of general people painting poxwalkers didn't impress me. Beginners suck no matter what they are using.(I did too when I was starting off)
Overread wrote: Poor Duncan - first they are releasing Knights with spikes on them and now now they are releasing contrast paints and destroying his glory of being "two thin coats" man!
They'll likely have to retire him or spend copious amounts of time retraining him to say "one thick coat"
Make him paint wearing a parka for a couple weeks, he’ll get it down quick enough.
The Skaven above impressed me, but is it weird that Kris' Arch-regent, in an hour... doesn't seem very exciting? I feel like it conveys neither "faster" nor "better" in this particular instance... and I usually really like his work.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: The Skaven above impressed me, but is it weird that Kris' Arch-regent, in an hour... doesn't seem very exciting? I feel like it conveys neither "faster" nor "better" in this particular instance... and I usually really like his work.
I think it's likely something from his nitpicking afterwards. Not familiar with his work though, as I avoid MWG these days.
That Skaven looks pretty good for very little effort. Normally I’m one for painting a very small number of minis to the highest standard I can manage, however, I should be receiving a Zombicide Invader pledge sometime and these look perfect for getting those minis looking good enough to play with.
I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Remember that this was most likely the first time these painters had used the new Contrast paints. They were more likely trying to find out what the paints could do (like blending on the Arch-regent) instead of focusing on painting an award-winning model.
Some of those do look pretty decent. Award-winning? No. Better than most stuff seen on the table top? Yeah. Better than grey plastic? Abso-feckin-lutely!
I'm curious how these might look over some zenithal primed stuff, especially non-traditional black-grey-white zenithal. Guess I'll have to pick a few up to try out...
I definitely think the model examples are a lot more interesting than the video was tbh. I just want to see more examples of things competent painters have done, and to know roughly how long they spent.
But it seems the video may have resulted in some kind of embargo drop for those painters, so the Skaven for example is really useful to understand what these paints can do. It looks pretty good for the time spent.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Remember that this was most likely the first time these painters had used the new Contrast paints. They were more likely trying to find out what the paints could do (like blending on the Arch-regent) instead of focusing on painting an award-winning model.
While not expecting award-winning, I did think painters of their repute would produce something more impressive even while playing around. Don't see much evidence of blending on the vamp, a bit of layering sure.
Ditto the bloke in the other vid mentions wet blending and I just don't see anything on his examples that looks like a particularly good blend. The best thing is the Nurgle machine's armour plate, but I was just looking at that thinking, give me a camo wash (or even paint), some sepia and some dark brown and I reckon you could get a very similar result without much difficulty.
That Vamp dude and the Skaven are amazing. Other stuff is mixed.
I absolutely love the pillar, though, looks like a flamer went to town on it. Not good if you want dusty ruins, but for a bombed out city with sooth and stains it'd be a nice start.
Valander wrote: Some of those do look pretty decent. Award-winning? No. Better than most stuff seen on the table top? Yeah. Better than grey plastic? Abso-feckin-lutely!
I'm curious how these might look over some zenithal primed stuff, especially non-traditional black-grey-white zenithal. Guess I'll have to pick a few up to try out...
I'm interested in this as well. I have a bit of the new Vallejo German Field Grey spray left over from my AT Titans, which is a slightly warm grey colour that should make a good shade tone for the warm white contrast spray. I'll have to find a nice neutral grey for the cooler contrast tone.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Does somebody expect this to produce effect like that? Hell no. It's not miracle tool.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Because the models your seeing are first attempts (or close to it) and more importantly because they are done using purely Contrast.
There is only so much you can do when painting a model with only a kind of glaze to work with.
Give them a bit of time and let them use the rest of the paint range and you will get beautiful things, but this was just to show off what the Contrast paint itself can accomplish and the Skaven looks, imo, amazing for that.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Does somebody expect this to produce effect like that? Hell no. It's not miracle tool.
I'm pretty sure that's one of the promo images they're using for the Contrast line, which would imply it was done with Contrast paints.
sockwithaticket wrote: I've been fairly underwhelmed by all the painted examples so far, these newest ones are no different with the exception of the grey-blue parts of the Skaven.
Nothing seems anywhere close to this:
Spoiler:
Does somebody expect this to produce effect like that? Hell no. It's not miracle tool.
I'm pretty sure that's one of the promo images they're using for the Contrast line, which would imply it was done with Contrast paints.
Precisely and I'm not looking for someone to have produced work of that (seeming) quality already, just something that indicates it's a possibility with just that contracts paints. So far nothing looks like even a stepping stone to that kind of work, so I wonder why they've got it as a promo image alongside the paints.
Are we even sure that's actually a contrast paint promo image and not just the artist's personal portfolio of stuff she's done in the past or something?
Of course, nobody is going to come to your house and make sure you only use contrast paints and no others on your miniatures. So I'm not sure why it matters? I mean, I can't get the same results the eavy metal team get with the regular paints either, that doesn't mean the paints are garbage.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Of course, nobody is going to come to your house and make sure you only use contrast paints and no others on your miniatures. So I'm not sure why it matters? I mean, I can't get the same results the eavy metal team get with the regular paints either, that doesn't mean the paints are garbage.
It might not be garbage, but it also does not appear to have fundamentally new qualities compared to already existing products. I'm actually concerned that this may well become an expensive crutch for many novice painters.
Only time will tell and I'm hoping for the best, but the results so far are not very convincing.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Of course, nobody is going to come to your house and make sure you only use contrast paints and no others on your miniatures. So I'm not sure why it matters? I mean, I can't get the same results the eavy metal team get with the regular paints either, that doesn't mean the paints are garbage.
It might not be garbage, but it also does not appear to have fundamentally new qualities compared to already existing products. I'm actually concerned that this may well become an expensive crutch for many novice painters.
Only time will tell and I'm hoping for the best, but the results so far are not very convincing.
I think it’ll more be a ‘crutch’ for people who don’t like painting, who otherwise might not even paint. If people enjoy painting, they’ll improve and learn new techniques and stuff. Just like new painters do now.
Plus, if it has nothing new over existing products, why would it become a crutch to new painters any more than anything now does?
Plus, if it has nothing new over existing products, why would it become a crutch to new painters any more than anything now does?
Oh, it would not be the only crutch. "Just slap some Nuln Oil on [insert base color]" has become a staple advice for beginners. It's not going to be a disaster either, just not the kind of product I'd like to see.
GW miniatures are rather expensive and I just don't agree with the notion that painting them quick and easy to the detriment of quality is a good approach. YMMV, of course.
AndrewGPaul wrote: What does "crutch" mean here, other than "a technique I look down on"?
The story of my painting technique improvement over the last decade or more is how to paint faster; I'm really looking forward to these.
It means people will have to rely on a certain product in order to produce reasonable results as opposed to getting better at painting. Time is definitely a factor, but I personally value quality much higher.
I disagree with your supposition that these new paints will prevent people from improving. After all, they're not a replacement, the current paints and all GW's tutorial material will still be available, so the sky won't fall.
Anyway, I would argue that this new option will result in a higher quality of army than using more time-consuming methods. One or two painted miniatures amongst a sea of naked plastic is a very poor standard of painting, after all.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Of course, nobody is going to come to your house and make sure you only use contrast paints and no others on your miniatures. So I'm not sure why it matters? I mean, I can't get the same results the eavy metal team get with the regular paints either, that doesn't mean the paints are garbage.
It might not be garbage, but it also does not appear to have fundamentally new qualities compared to already existing products. I'm actually concerned that this may well become an expensive crutch for many novice painters.
Only time will tell and I'm hoping for the best, but the results so far are not very convincing.
If novice painters end up relying on this, then it obviously does have new qualities compared to already existing products. Otherwise those novice painters would already be using those existing products as a crutch. Honestly, you're not really making any sense. It sounds like just being upset that somebody else might get decent results without working as hard as you do.
AndrewGPaul wrote: One or two painted miniatures amongst a sea of naked plastic is a very poor standard of painting, after all.
Can't disagree with that. On the other hand, I'd rather leave my army grey for another month or two in order to get to a decent painting standard first.
If novice painters end up relying on this, then it obviously does have new qualities compared to already existing products. Otherwise those novice painters would already be using those existing products as a crutch. Honestly, you're not really making any sense. It sounds like just being upset that somebody else might get decent results without working as hard as you do.
They are already using said products, so the point still stands. The new quality is multiple products being rolled into one, in order to offer a shortcut.
The notion that I might be upset because other people are getting good results is, frankly, insulting. I don't thrive on other people's misery and at the same time I don't see this hobby as a competition. My concerns stem from the nature of the product and the possible implications for newcomers, considering the way it is marketed. I might be completely wrong on this and I hope I am, because I don't have a horse in this race either way.
If I push myself, I can get a unit of 10 - 20 models done in a week. More likely, though, it'll take me twice that. These paints look like I can bash out the same number of models in a weekend.
In 2019 so far I've managed to paint only 46 miniatures. At that rate I'll get a useable army for AoS or the like by the end of the year. :( If these Contrast paints were out at Christmas, I'd have my Daughters of Khaine battalion done and have played a few games by now.
AndrewGPaul wrote: If I push myself, I can get a unit of 10 - 20 models done in a week. More likely, though, it'll take me twice that. These paints look like I can bash out the same number of models in a weekend.
In 2019 so far I've managed to paint only 46 miniatures. At that rate I'll get a useable army for AoS or the like by the end of the year. :( If these Contrast paints were out at Christmas, I'd have my Daughters of Khaine battalion done and have played a few games by now.
I dream of being able to paint 46 minis in a year. I think last year I finished around 10
I’m interested to give these a go to see what they can do in conjunction with standard painting techniques.
AndrewGPaul wrote: One or two painted miniatures amongst a sea of naked plastic is a very poor standard of painting, after all.
Can't disagree with that. On the other hand, I'd rather leave my army grey for another month or two in order to get to a decent painting standard first.
If novice painters end up relying on this, then it obviously does have new qualities compared to already existing products. Otherwise those novice painters would already be using those existing products as a crutch. Honestly, you're not really making any sense. It sounds like just being upset that somebody else might get decent results without working as hard as you do.
They are already using said products, so the point still stands. The new quality is multiple products being rolled into one, in order to offer a shortcut.
The notion that I might be upset because other people are getting good results is, frankly, insulting. I don't thrive on other people's misery and at the same time I don't see this hobby as a competition. My concerns stem from the nature of the product and the possible implications for newcomers, considering the way it is marketed. I might be completely wrong on this and I hope I am, because I don't have a horse in this race either way.
Some people don't have that time luxury. If this helps them get their models to the table at a decent standard they like, that shouldn't be an issue.
Been thinking about these new paints for a while now and i recon it's good we have access to them.
Of course, taking time and doing it 'properly' will produce better results but you have to admit that if you only get a small amount of time to yourself each week these will be an absolute necessity.
I can also see them getting more people into the game since the skill level in having an impressive looking force has been reduced to 'keeping it between the lines' like a painting by numbers book; however i also see the inaccuracies it can have (pooling on large flat upper surfaces for example) triggering an interest in proper paint to 'fix' those instances.
My personal perspective is now i would be willing to try an ork or khorne daemon army now; i'm also annoyed that i'm half-way through normally painting 130+ stormtroopers when they release this stuff but i am cheered by the base coat in a pot so now the faces i produce might actually look like skin tones
Was there a good high quality picture of the shelves with the pots + 2 miniatures painted in that color?
The only ones I have seen were either blurry or only showed a small portion.
Trying to plan if I can paint my upcoming GSC horde with them.
Ordana wrote: Was there a good high quality picture of the shelves with the pots + 2 miniatures painted in that color?
The only ones I have seen were either blurry or only showed a small portion.
Trying to plan if I can paint my upcoming GSC horde with them.
Ordana wrote: Was there a good high quality picture of the shelves with the pots + 2 miniatures painted in that color?
The only ones I have seen were either blurry or only showed a small portion.
Trying to plan if I can paint my upcoming GSC horde with them.
Ordana wrote: Was there a good high quality picture of the shelves with the pots + 2 miniatures painted in that color?
The only ones I have seen were either blurry or only showed a small portion.
Trying to plan if I can paint my upcoming GSC horde with them.
Suppose it's mildly useful for the hues (although most colours only really show up in the recesses), but those space marines must be among the worst figures to demonstrate these paints on! Any and all pictures in the thread so far, including those of people trying the contrast paints for the first time, make them look better than those in that display. Messy pooling of the wash part on each and every one of them. Black isn't remotely black either, but the white looks promising...
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Suppose it's mildly useful for the hues (although most colours only really show up in the recesses), but those space marines must be among the worst figures to demonstrate these paints on! Any and all pictures in the thread so far, including those of people trying the contrast paints for the first time, make them look better than those in that display. Messy pooling of the wash part on each and every one of them. Black isn't remotely black either, but the white looks promising...
Space Marines are some of GW's most iconic models and top sellers. People will want to know how the Contrast paints work on Space Marines so there's no sense in avoiding the subject.
Another video thats worth watching. I can't say I'm 100% sold on how everything looks, but I imagine we'll get some great tutorials from people once they've been out for a bit
That new website in the making is a much better step than Contrast. Sure, it might end up as part of the marketing for Citadel ("Citadel Colour", duh) and could have some great guides like "to paint this small leather pouch, buy 5 of these paints", but a site for teaching painting like that was long overdue. I remember some free guides they had right where you'd buy the same model long time ago, but they removed that feature. Now there are some links on army pages to youtube channel, but they're very limited in quantity.
A painting video for every Citadel miniature? That's great stuff for people who are new to the hobby.
Ordana wrote: Was there a good high quality picture of the shelves with the pots + 2 miniatures painted in that color?
The only ones I have seen were either blurry or only showed a small portion.
Trying to plan if I can paint my upcoming GSC horde with them.
I'm actually really impressed with those models. You can tell that they were not painted with any sort of delicacy or accuracy, and yet the contrast did all the work beautifully. The eyes around the skeleton, the barrel of the immortal, and little bits and pieces there show that a bit of accuracy will go a long way.
Also, the shine on that stormcast primed in retributor armor looks fantastic. The only other way to get that sort of shine is with a bunch of paints from other lines and using techniques that are a bit different than people might want to pursue. To be able to throw that on and have shiny armor like that is amazing.
I know I am excited about Contrast because I think it will speed up my glacially slow painting.
That said I think this is a product that is absolutely fantastic for people looking to get into the hobby. I have heard many times from gamers of various sorts (including several good friends) that they are interested in miniature gaming, but don't think they could paint a model to any degree of success. I think a product like this could help get gamers to play GW games as they can achieve decent results without a ton of experience.
It also goes along way for GW to be showing models and armies that are tabletop quality and not 'Eavy Metal display quality all the time. I imagine it will do a lot for the confidence of newer hobbyists to see models that look similar to their own in use and not constantly be seeing paint jobs that 95% of us could never hope to obtain.
I am a decent painter and generally not phased by seeing models that are painted to a better standard than my own, but I'll tell you I felt pretty miserable about my abilities when I played Infinity and would see Corvus Belli's display models.
Honestly the stormcast white looks great for a "dirty battle" white. Honestly the marbling effect I think will look great for dirtying up a model like those stormcast or when spread over something like a shell or scales for texture on living flesh.
Anyone know if pretty much ANY white or grey primer works, or will we need theirs?
These paints won’t replace what I do by a long shot, but I’m REALLY interested in trying out the brighter colors like white and yellow. If they work well, it’ll be a huge time saver for me and open up the color range of my minis.
Mac V wrote: Anyone know if pretty much ANY white or grey primer works, or will we need theirs?
These paints won’t replace what I do by a long shot, but I’m REALLY interested in trying out the brighter colors like white and yellow. If they work well, it’ll be a huge time saver for me and open up the color range of my minis.
They've said on Facebook you can use other light-colored primers, but the effect won't be quite the same.
More podcast than video, but brings up the concerns, as said on this thread, about what if you make a mistake and have to clean things up. Or realize too late that you have to paint the next nineteen models the same complicated way you did the first one...
Yodhrin wrote: In other words, if you use a different primer, hit it with a satin or gloss varnish before using the Contrast.
I wonder if there will be a difference between using satin or gloss though.
Gloss will generally increase the pooling effect more than satin, but being as these paints cling more to where you apply them, and you direct it into the recesses, it's hard to say. I imagine I satin would be plenty good enough. You want pigment on the entire surface, not just in the recess. It's almost like a super pigmented glaze that required many less layers.
Elzender posted this pic. "according to a store chain from Spain, this was done by one of the shoo managers using only contrast paints over a white undercoat (I'm guessing they mean the cream one)." :
Elzender posted this pic. "according to a store chain from Spain, this was done by one of the shoo managers using only contrast paints over a white undercoat (I'm guessing they mean the cream one)." :
Spoiler:
Oh, hey, I know these guys! I might just have to go there and see that mini in the flesh, so to speak...
The primers look really satin/glossy in comparison to regular primers. You could also apply a coat of gloss or satin varnish over any primer to improve the Contrast paints' flow.
The contrast video on the paint web page is not encouraging. They should have used some other model to demonstrate, large flat surfaces of a space marine are not ideal for this sort of paint. Also, I don't understand why they painted the black over the blue, certainly you're supposed to paint the black directly on the pale base colour? Reapplying the base colour for yellow and grey areas was a weird choice as well, how about just not paint those areas blue to begin with?
Yeah, that video was a real bummer. Paint everything. Basecoat again! Like, what? I bet that with just slightly more control the pooling wouldn't have to be this bad as well,
Glancing at other vids the verdigris and blood ones are also "slather it all over" totally overdoing it and making it the end result way worse than it could be.
I laughed at it a bit. They tell you not to thin it, and to paint it quickly before it begins to dry.... But then they tell you to spread it all over a dry pallet... Then they tell you to hit everything with the primary color so you can go back over it with the base color...
Seemed like they wanted folks to waste paint.
Honestly though the video demoed how these paints are going to work for a beginner. You either need to go painfully slow, or touch up with the base shade along the way. He was just doing the entry level paint job. I'd imagine it is slightly faster starting with the models lightest colors and working toward darkest since errors would be less noticeable, but the paint is billed on it's transparency, if you make mistakes, they are going to show through and touching it up will be trickier then normal if you don't want a noticeable spot. That shouldn't be a deal breaker for fast, get it done and on the table jobs though. But if you want the models to be cleaner your going to need to pick your colors carefully and show some brush control.
Red Corsair wrote: I laughed at it a bit. They tell you not to thin it, and to paint it quickly before it begins to dry.... But then they tell you to spread it all over a dry pallet... Then they tell you to hit everything with the primary color so you can go back over it with the base color...
Seemed like they wanted folks to waste paint.
Honestly though the video demoed how these paints are going to work for a beginner. You either need to go painfully slow, or touch up with the base shade along the way. He was just doing the entry level paint job. I'd imagine it is slightly faster starting with the models lightest colors and working toward darkest since errors would be less noticeable, but the paint is billed on it's transparency, if you make mistakes, they are going to show through and touching it up will be trickier then normal if you don't want a noticeable spot. That shouldn't be a deal breaker for fast, get it done and on the table jobs though. But if you want the models to be cleaner your going to need to pick your colors carefully and show some brush control.
Yeah, definitely would rather go back over the gold parts with, y'know, actual gold. And if there's no reason to thin it, then the only reason to put it on a pallet would be to get rid of excess on your brush, not to load it *onto* the pallet first.
Either way, the effect is nice, even if the tutorial is a bit bupkis.
I've got my eye on the Iyanden Yellow for some Imperial Fists, but I'm wondering if one really needs the two base colours they are suggesting. Are they just standard creamy-beigy( "OOOOOoooooooo - The White-ish Knight!" ) and light grey acrylics?
Or, you know, have infinite access to free paint so don't need to be careful or take their time, just slap it on and correct mistakes. It's faster for them even if it wastes paint, and GW marketing won't say no to increasing paint sales that way too. Yeah, irritates me too but you'd paint same way if materials were free...
SamusDrake wrote: I've got my eye on the Iyanden Yellow for some Imperial Fists, but I'm wondering if one really needs the two base colours they are suggesting. Are they just standard creamy-beigy( "OOOOOoooooooo - The White-ish Knight!" ) and light grey acrylics?
They already said it's white primer with some super special secret additives. How much they matter in practice we'll see in a week or so.
SamusDrake wrote: I've got my eye on the Iyanden Yellow for some Imperial Fists, but I'm wondering if one really needs the two base colours they are suggesting. Are they just standard creamy-beigy( "OOOOOoooooooo - The White-ish Knight!" ) and light grey acrylics?
SamusDrake wrote: I've got my eye on the Iyanden Yellow for some Imperial Fists, but I'm wondering if one really needs the two base colours they are suggesting. Are they just standard creamy-beigy( "OOOOOoooooooo - The White-ish Knight!" ) and light grey acrylics?
The primer is supposed to give a much smoother finish which is required for the effect, if the underlying coat is even a little rough/coarse the paint is going to catch and pool on the flat parts of the model which ruins the effect your trying to achieve.
So if your current primer already gives a really smooth finish then I would assume it will work just as well.
Whilst as a medium these are clearly bloody good? They’re not a miracle solution. One still needs to learn brush control to keep each colour only where it should. And I suspect one will need to learn what sort of brushstroke to apply. Easier said than done when you’ve got one coat to get it right.
Yes. They’re simplistic as paints go once you’ve got that down. But they do teach the absolute basic tenet, and beautifully. Neatness.
See, for those understandably asking ‘what if I bodge a stroke?’, there are at least pots of the base for a quick touch up.
But with the solid results from a mere modicum of care? I really think these will raise the quality of painting overall. Those previously daunted by base/wash/highlight for a whole army can now crack on, and get pretty decent, if standardised results.
The confidence that can instill could well, one day, see a beginner that’d otherwise be reticent to get going win a Golden Daemon.
Because painting is scary. And it shouldn’t be. These are your training wheels. And that isn’t a bad thing. From the very basic, very easy, they’ll still be getting brushes in hands, and provide confidence that, actually, Yes I Can in newbies. And and sad old gits like me.
The Space Marine tutorial video is brutal. The paintjob looks really, really bad, even for beginners' standards. Blotches and pooling everywhere, too much paint on brush and miniature, unnecessarily reapplying the base coat etc. Space Marines don't lend themselves to this kind of paint at all, it seems. Or maybe he should've used less of it for a cleaner result. Probably something with a bit more texture would have made for a better demonstration.
Watching this video, it looks like people are being taught to burn through their paint and brushes more than anything. Certainly not useful techniques or best practices to improve their painting in the long run.
That video was really poorly done. I'm interested in why they would post a video of such poor work when random people at Warhammer fest posted pictures of their work that was considerably better just using Contrast.
Also the instructor tells you to water down the Contrast paint, while I have seen specifically elsewhere (including GW) that Contrast paint does not work with water. And how about having to paint the lighter areas with the primer again to cover them? How about just not painting them blue in the first place?
I'm definitely still interested in these for flesh, whites, and blacks, but man this video did dampen my enthusiasm a bit. I just don't understand as we have seen Intercessors before painted with just contrast the looked much better.
Also the instructor tells you to water down the Contrast paint, while I have seen specifically elsewhere (including GW) that Contrast paint does not work with water..
He was talking about watering down the primer not the contrast colour. The pot primer is the same as regular GW base paints so water is fine with them.
But yeah not the most impressive end result. I do wonder how much influence corporate had on the choice of mini and colour though. All those smooth surfaces don't seem to be the best match for blobing on the blue like that.
He was talking about watering down the primer not the contrast colour. The pot primer is the same as regular GW base paints so water is fine with them.
But yeah not the most impressive end result. I do wonder how much influence corporate had on the choice of mini and colour though. All those smooth surfaces don't seem to be the best match for blobing on the blue like that.
Ah, that makes sense. I for some reason thought the primers were also Contrast paints.
It was a really strange choice of model indeed. I'm not sure why they would try to show off the paints in how fast they can paint Space Marines either, as their are tons of colored sprays on the market that make painting an Intercessor super fast with only the need of one shade and three or four other colors.
Checking out more of the site, nearly all the other "techniques" videos also use a blue Intercessor as well. So they probably wanted to keep a certain level of consistency. Especially as they seem to be aimed more at those who are making there first steps into mini painting.
- 1 Can of spray + (and pot of the same color)
- Flesh Tearer Red
- Apothecary White (have to test that white color)
- Some interesting color
- Contrast medium as my only retarders are water based.
- New models (propably Skitarii Vanguard)
Good thing I got a gift card so I ain't going broke!
Just noticed that there's also a new Matte paint-on varnish - presumably it will be released along the new paints. It's called Stormshield and appears in one of the tutorials
SamusDrake wrote: I've got my eye on the Iyanden Yellow for some Imperial Fists, but I'm wondering if one really needs the two base colours they are suggesting. Are they just standard creamy-beigy( "OOOOOoooooooo - The White-ish Knight!" ) and light grey acrylics?
The primer is supposed to give a much smoother finish which is required for the effect, if the underlying coat is even a little rough/coarse the paint is going to catch and pool on the flat parts of the model which ruins the effect your trying to achieve.
So if your current primer already gives a really smooth finish then I would assume it will work just as well.
Was thinking about the primer thing a little earlier - car/auto primer might be a good substitute. I had a tin of grey Simonez car primer I got cheap off ebay a while ago, and it seemed to dry as a very thin and smooth "skin" on the miniature.
The contrast paints at WHF were thinned with water in the demos, by Darren lathem of eavy metal. So I don't know where that information about not thinning is coming from. You clearly can thin them.. I watched him do it in front of my eyes. Licked the brush aswell.
Yep, you'd just need a primer with a smooth skin, and not the powdery effect you can get from some primers. Notably colour-primers would be pretty good (something like Army Painter sprays, etc.).
Some primers are much more flat/powdery (a good trait when you're trying to get paint to stick - not the best when you're being artistic with a 1" tall figure). You'd just want the primers which produce a smooth-to-the-touch finish. I doubt there is very much special in the new GW primers.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The contrast paints at WHF were thinned with water in the demos, by Darren lathem of eavy metal. So I don't know where that information about not thinning is coming from. You clearly can thin them.. I watched him do it in front of my eyes. Licked the brush aswell.
I suppose I could be confusing "not using water" with "then we thin the paint with the Contrast medium," but I do believe I heard a few places that you couldn't use water. It could just be a "hey we have this medium here that's really nice," marketing tactic. Nice to know they can be used with water though.
There's probably more than a few techniques that the 'Eavy Metal team uses that one wouldn't suggest to a beginner. From what I've seen mentioned is that thinning the Contrast paints with water cuts down on the properties that makes them Contrast paints.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The contrast paints at WHF were thinned with water in the demos, by Darren lathem of eavy metal. So I don't know where that information about not thinning is coming from. You clearly can thin them.. I watched him do it in front of my eyes. Licked the brush aswell.
I suppose I could be confusing "not using water" with "then we thin the paint with the Contrast medium," but I do believe I heard a few places that you couldn't use water. It could just be a "hey we have this medium here that's really nice," marketing tactic. Nice to know they can be used with water though.
I believe it was the member of staff at the public demo table at Warhammer Fest who said that you shouldn’t thin with water as it will cause issues with the contrasting property of the paint which is why they made a new thining fluid available.
Well it could've been thinning fluid, but I doubt he would've been putting his brush in his mouth if it was! I think what they mean is that if you're using them as basecoats you use the 'one thick coat' however, they clearly can be thinned with water and used for more advanced techniques. I was impressed with how well they worked for jewels and gemstones.
Personally, I tend to work from dark to light when painting, so if I do try these it will be a change for me.
I'm looking forward to trying them for sure - although I suspect you'll still need to combine them with a shade/highlight to get the most out of them.
I think they'll work best on minis with a lot of texture and less so on Space Marines or anything with lots of large flat areas and the pooling I've seen on some of the minis so far is a concern.
This all said I think they're a great idea - anything that can get people painting quicker and easier will always get my vote.
I think they might make a great base to build from and I'm keen to experiment with pre-shading and glazes on top to smooth the finish off.
Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:
"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."
That is the first good looking Contrast Marine. It really looks like you can do good stuff quickly if you put in effort and have an idea what you're doing - just like regular paints.
I hope there's a good colour for more ochre-ish yellow, now that I bought twenty squigs cheaply...smaller models like gobbos should hopefully work pretty well with Contrast, if I don't have to layer a hundred robes I might actually paint my old Skull Pass stuff AND my new squigs. The old washes worked pretty well on them, but I spilled my Devland Mud right after GW discontinued it. Also hopeful that you get cool effects when it comes to dots and lumps on skin thanks to the transparency. Basecoat - stippling or dotting on some patterns - Contrast - details would be a dream.
Oh, and if that white and black are good then the whole thing was worth it even if the rest sucks.
Chikout wrote: Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:
"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."
Primed black. Zenithaled beige. Based with contrast (only use). Then a three step/color edge highlight just on the armor. Matte varnish. This is the stuff with the potential for giving people unrealistic expectations. Only one step in 7 is using the contrast paint for that armor. Great looking model, but the massive loads of salt required for lower skill painters.
Chikout wrote: Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:
"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."
Primed black. Zenithaled beige. Based with contrast (only use). Then a three step/color edge highlight just on the armor. Matte varnish. This is the stuff with the potential for giving people unrealistic expectations. Only one step in 7 is using the contrast paint for that armor. Great looking model, but the massive loads of salt required for lower skill painters.
Yeah the fact that the armor is further highlighted makes it pretty pointless to see what the Contrast is actually doing without step by step photo's.
I would use the blue for my Ork jeans and leather for their jerkins. Quick and easy. Other than that, I could use these on my Bones kickstarter minis from Reaper.
I don’t think the point was that Contrast was the final product. More that he was able to shortcut a mini in half an hour. A tool in the box to get (great) results in a short timeframe.
I have some Oldhammer Britannia (?) miniatures, and some miniatures wear yellow cloth. The yellow is idealized, so I'm gonna need a shade that's not so brown that it looks even remotely dirty.
greatbigtree wrote: I don’t think the point was that Contrast was the final product. More that he was able to shortcut a mini in half an hour. A tool in the box to get (great) results in a short timeframe.
Well, sort of. He is just spit balling which gives a bogus impression. He clearly states it would be about 30 minutes if you factor out drying time. You can cut down on drying times by batch painting and I am sure he banged it out fast, but I always find it comical when folks start pairing down the process time by guessing how long it takes by factoring out things that can't be avoided and that you have no real way of measuring accurately. I mean, I am sure I can paint a mini in about 15 minutes if I factor out the piss breaks, coffee sips and time spent waffling over the color I want and tempering my paint perfectly. I'd rather he just share how long it took in real time, then speculate if he wants. Again, it gives a bit of a false impression to the folks this was targeted at. I would bet if he just glazed mephiston red into step 3 over that zenithal he'd have the model done in nearly the same timeframe with nearly identical results.
Either way I am excited to try these, but I know from talking to the folks at my local shop that this was geared for that some of them are definitely getting their expectations to unrealistic places. I feel photos like that, where an already super talented guy flexes a bit by shaving his dry times off and rounding the time frame (was basing included?) are giving bad info. I actually commend GW a bit for their more realistic video results even if they try to get you to use a dry pallet lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: And it's not like zenith is some super complex that negates point of contrast paint anyway.
Not sure who said that it did. Zenithals are used as prep for glazing, which is what he used the contrast paint for, which is basically what they are, only apparently ready out the pot and very well designed glazes.
Chikout wrote: Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:
"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."
Primed black. Zenithaled beige. Based with contrast (only use). Then a three step/color edge highlight just on the armor. Matte varnish. This is the stuff with the potential for giving people unrealistic expectations. Only one step in 7 is using the contrast paint for that armor. Great looking model, but the massive loads of salt required for lower skill painters.
I can’t tell if your trying to shoot this down or not. Even without the highlights it’s much less work than a noob painter would have to do with multiple layers of red just to achieve a smooth clean finish plus shading and yes doing the same highlights. I don’t seal my models as I’m not a great painter, but still slightly better than a beginner, so I’m not too worried about my models getting dinged. The effort here is easily achievable and the majority of the work (base colors), which I find tedious, is handled with one step.
If your not trying to knock it down I’m sorry, I must have misread, it’s just getting tiresome that the not target audience (target audience bring beginner painters not pro painters or veteran painters) keep trying to dismiss this as a boon for a new breed of painters.
If your a pro who uses airbrushes and competes in tournaments or sells models painted this may not be something for you, fine. But for those of us who have struggled over years to paint an army to look decent in our own eyes this looks to be amazing and I for one a more going to try it out. I. Sure Pros have tried various paints and inks and washes and I’m sure you have disagreements with others as to how good one item is over another, but stop naysaying and preaching that this isn’t the way before you even get your hands on it.
Priming black + zenithal with white + using a glaze (actually also requires finesse, as people begin to realise when comparing some works to others or Citadel new videos) + highlights is a lot more work than I would recommend for a newbie when painting red.
Shadenuat wrote: Priming black + zenithal with white + using a glaze (actually also requires finesse, as people begin to realise when comparing some works to others or Citadel new videos) + highlights is a lot more work than I would recommend for a newbie when painting red.
This sort of thing just looks like concern trolling tbh. Richard Gray is a Golden Demon winner so newbs aren't painting any colour like him. Beginners can just slap some contrast red over the appropriate undercoat.
This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?
I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.
There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.
Chikout wrote: This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.
Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.
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Yodhrin wrote: This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?
I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.
There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.
I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+
So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.
Chikout wrote: This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.
Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.
Because sometimes you don’t want that self-shading business and instead just want a really intense but transparent colour shift? In which case these things ready are magic because that is great.
Chikout wrote: This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.
Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.
Because sometimes you don’t want that self-shading business and instead just want a really intense but transparent colour shift? In which case these things ready are magic because that is great.
Well as long as it works that well if it isn’t airbrushed on and looks a good finish, then I’d give that a go for something. (Don’t have any metallic paint schemes but might find something that’ll have it if so)
I"ll just add that pretty much every "this is what will happen if you use our product" is particularly bogus when it comes to paints!
No way can I get that good with *any* hobby paint.
No way could a professional painter paint *all* the miniatures in a KS pledge to that level.
No way will that PVC KS miniature hold the details shown in that professionally painted resin sample.
No way will a PVC hold as much detail as that resin *or* that render.
We're not alone, of course. Women do not become supermodels by dying their hair. Men do not become fertility magnets by using deodorant.
Yodhrin wrote: This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?
I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.
There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.
I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+
So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.
And, what, you're shackled to your chair in a head brace forcing you to stare at the model for those 45 mins?
Nobody sane counts drying time because sane people use those 45 minutes(by all accounts in the case of Contrast, more like 10-15) to do other things.
If it takes twenty minutes to make a pie, and an hour to cook the pie, then it takes twenty minutes to make the pie because that's the amount of time you spend making it.
For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.
EnTyme wrote: For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.
Exactly, because if your a commission painter your probably working on another model while that ones drying. Unless you get paid for painting by the hour of one would charge drying time as part of the commission fee .if they do then they should charge delivery time as well because they couldn’t start another model while UPS is carrying the package to the purchasers door.
kestral wrote: I wonder how hard it is to touch up mistakes. A lot of the pictures look good except for some sloppy bits.
A steady hand is really going to help, but if you make a mistake, you just go over a bit of the area with the basecoat (primer colors sold in a pot) and reapply the contrast.
The thing that I've heard is that contrast dries very thin, which is great because mistakes won't gunk up nice details. The downside is that you NEED TO VARNISH after you're done. Whether you spray varnish or give it a coat of matte varnish with a brush, you really need to protect these models.
If you keep all your minis lumped together in a plastic bag, Contrast paints WILL chip off faster than normal paints.
If you protect your expensive models like a sane person, you shouldn't have as much of an issue.
EnTyme wrote: For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.
Exactly, because if your a commission painter your probably working on another model while that ones drying. Unless you get paid for painting by the hour of one would charge drying time as part of the commission fee .if they do then they should charge delivery time as well because they couldn’t start another model while UPS is carrying the package to the purchasers door.
The above is not aimed at you EnTyme
Lol! I don't charge by the hour, but I do log my time so I have something to show them when someone asks why it took me a month to paint their army.
I'm really looking forward to these. I'm a godawful painter and my current process is like 5-7 stages to get my DG to what I'd consider an acceptable, slightly-above-minimum-tabletop standard.
What I'm most excited about is these paints actually getting into the public so people can work out what's true, what's marketing hype, how they play with other colours, what you can mix them with, whether 3rd parties can come up with something similar etc.
that, and getting a nice off-white in two steps will help me out immensely
I am genuinely excited about the Contrast paints and I already told my FLGS that I am interested in trying the whole range.
I consider myself as a good painter but I struggle to get anything finished, especially now that I don't go to tournaments anymore. Ten years ago I tried dipping and finished a lot of models for two reasons - I was excited to see the effect itself and it also acted as a finishing step. Getting something done increased my motivation to paint - that is something that I have lacked for past several years.
At first I am going to try "full contrast" on smaller projects such as Bloodbowl teams, Necromunda Gangs or Blackstone Fortress. Eventually, I expect them to become just another tool in the toolbox, to save time in certain parts of the model such as skin, fur or base.
Somewhere within the area I circled I got some blue on the red robes. I painted over the spot with the primer color and then hit it with the red Contrast again, and now I can't even tell where the spot is! It covers so well.
Chikout wrote: This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.
Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.
Presumably something like vallejos transparent effect aimed. Something you can't do with gw air. And vallejo transparent range is pretty small(3 i think) so other colours that could do similar effect could be nice
Funny that paints can be used in many ways. First reference to vallejo transparents wasn't related at all making metallic sheened blue or red or metallic at all
Yodhrin wrote: This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?
I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.
There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.
I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+
So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.
And, what, you're shackled to your chair in a head brace forcing you to stare at the model for those 45 mins?
Nobody sane counts drying time because sane people use those 45 minutes(by all accounts in the case of Contrast, more like 10-15) to do other things.
If it takes twenty minutes to make a pie, and an hour to cook the pie, then it takes twenty minutes to make the pie because that's the amount of time you spend making it.
So I’m insane. Good to know.
Maybe you can describe your preference without insulting people?
I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+
So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.
Woot? You really just sit there watching paint to dry? As that's the only sane way time drying maters in paint time.
Point out where I said I watch it dry... can’t? Because I didn’t.
I can’t magically make painting a model fit into the time per session I have available by pretending some steps don’t take time. That’s my only and entire point.
If a commission painter doesn’t quote that time that’s irrelevant to me.
Cooking a meal doesn’t take 20 minutes if it needs an hour in the oven. Pretty handy illumination of my point, presented as a failed rebuttal.
Honestly people, save the edgy comments and fishing for a scrap. Would be nice if we could just discuss things without people’s need to polarise and argue.
Let's all dial down the hysteria in here, folks. Disagreeing with the way someone counts the length of time something takes to do is a bit of a ridiculous thing to get this worked up over.
at 34:42 he tries contrast flesh tearers red over black primer (someone was curious, results do not look great)
at about 37:00 he does contrast flesh tearers red over a plain white prime (not one of the contrast basecoats)
41:25: 2 layers of contrast black templar over plain white primer
50:40: Contrast skeleton horde over white primer
56:13: Contrast Orkflesh over white primer
1:02:51: Contrast Iyanden Yellow over white primer
1:05:20: Contrast Talisar Blue over white primer
1:11:20 Contrast Black Templar over white primer
1:22:25: Contrast Blood Angels Red over zenithal primed base
1:27:18: Contrast Snakebite Leather over zenithal primed base
There might be some others I missed, but I found it interesting to see them being used in real-time, and how they interact on a normal white base rather than the super-special secret new primer formula. Far more informative than still shots of finished minis and marketing spiel, imo
“There's several different pigments in the paint that separate, so if you take Blood Angels Red, it turns darker with an almost blueish tint in the recesses, a vibrant deep red on most of the miniature and slightly yellowish near the edges”.
I could see this being decent. I'm actually painting my tomb kings in a similar way right now using the armypainter washes over a white primer as the base layer and then adding some highlights using the layer paints. I'll wait to see more videos before I buy any.
I am equally surprised and disappointed to see that the paints are not available for another three weeks. I guess it means that I have to assemble even more models while waiting...
Ignoring that, do we have any details of the actual release? Like are they going to offer a set (or three) with the new paints in like when they released the first foundation paints?
Mr_Rose wrote: Ignoring that, do we have any details of the actual release? Like are they going to offer a set (or three) with the new paints in like when they released the first foundation paints?
Nope. Just that they're announcing the preorder date two weeks out.
I guess GW see Contrast as a big release that warrants an empty week to prepare customers wallets and there own stock, or alternatively the Sylvaneth delay left a hole in there schedule that couldn't be filled. Either way it looks like my itchy paintbrushes will have to make do with terrain and Custodes for a few more weeks
I love the look of that achilles ridgerunner. This also confirms that you CAN mix contrast with water, BUT it BEHAVES differently. It's not like it ruins the paint, it just doesn't work like 'Contrast' any more.
Those weathering effects are things that I'm used to seeing on historical miniatures using layers of different inks and chemicals. It's great to know that you can get a similar effect with these contrast paints without all of the research and effort.
Dark Severance wrote: Not sure if these were brought up, but fairly decent overview with examples going over strengths and weaknesses.
The BA in the 2nd vid is darn impressive for half an hours work. The trick is going to be how well the contrast colours match the regular paints. Both for fitting into an existing force and for stuff that contrast may not be suited to like large flat surfaces.
at 34:42 he tries contrast flesh tearers red over black primer (someone was curious, results do not look great)
at about 37:00 he does contrast flesh tearers red over a plain white prime (not one of the contrast basecoats)
41:25: 2 layers of contrast black templar over plain white primer
50:40: Contrast skeleton horde over white primer
56:13: Contrast Orkflesh over white primer
1:02:51: Contrast Iyanden Yellow over white primer
1:05:20: Contrast Talisar Blue over white primer
1:11:20 Contrast Black Templar over white primer
1:22:25: Contrast Blood Angels Red over zenithal primed base
1:27:18: Contrast Snakebite Leather over zenithal primed base
There might be some others I missed, but I found it interesting to see them being used in real-time, and how they interact on a normal white base rather than the super-special secret new primer formula. Far more informative than still shots of finished minis and marketing spiel, imo
Thanks for posting the link to this - very much appreciated. I can't wait for these to be released. They won't replace or usurp regular painting for me, but as a new tool in the kit, I think they'll be really useful, so I'll be getting the whole lot.
No. We usually don't find out that kind of information until it goes up on pre-order, barring any friendly independent stockists sharing the info a few days early.
Sabotage! wrote: That marine Migsula did looks much better than the one in the GW video. Maybe it's just the blue?
A second coat would probably look better, but it's still not too shabby. Especially considering what GW showed off earlier in their tutorial.
I'm guessing it looks like it needs a second coat because he used a white primer instead of the warmer wraithbone. That would probably make the red a bit richer.
Incidentally that Plaguecrawler looks just like I want my Desth Guard's white parts to look, so that is intriguing. Did he say what he did during the experimenting?
I liked the Blood Angel a lot more before varnishing, maybe a satin coat or even glossier for me. In the thumbnail you can see a lot of white microdots, if that's from the zenithal spray and not the varnish I'd like to see a model done with white basecoat and a darker spray from below instead. That is harder and gives not as good shadows, but you can get a good coat of white without the misty look. Mhm.
The unvarnished shade of the BA's red is really nice, though, not as orange as the current studio BAs. Reminds me of my Word Bearers done with Scorched Brown - Red Gore - Scab Red - Blood Red edge highlights - red ink, just faster. And I actually liked the gloss on them, contrasted nicely with both the matte lettering on the armour and the parchement.
And Contrast makes me ponder the silver Space Marines feom the studio painter that in WD a year or so ago. The armour was just metal basecoat and Nuln Oil+Nuln Oil wash with the focus parts like faces, lenses, fancy weapons painted to a high standard, making the overall model really attractive and sort of tricking the viewer to think that everything is super elaborate.
the variable consistency of the Game Color paints means getting a single drop can be difficult (compounded by the occasions when the paint has clumped in the bottle, resulting in nothing coming out until the blockage clears, then a huge splodge on the palette.). The nozzles split, too, making it more likely for excess paint to clog the threads of the caps. they're better than the infamous "bolter shell" screw-top pots, but that's not saying much. 
)
) that I never got around to primering all that much of. Reading that it'd be really good for organics seems to make that a pretty decent fit. Just a question of if the color of paints will work.
).
month to paint their army.
