Valkyrie wrote: Also saw this floating about. Excuse the quality, cropped from a larger pic
Edit: Have seen some folks saying it's a fake.
It's a fake, but a great model. New Tau auxiliaries? A malfunctioning Tyranid splinter idealising man/humanoids as the genetic ideal, joining the defence of worlds against the Hive Fleets?
General Kroll wrote: I keep seeing here and on Facebook people claiming that multiple kits were sent out to multiple people.
I’ve only seen the original pictures posted though. Can’t find any sign of other here, on B&C or on FB.
Anyone able to point me in the right direction?
A few other people claimed it but nobody else seems to have provided evidence, they were likely making it up for clout and people didn't realise the opened painted model picture was from the same person who had put up the box.
Anyway, yeah, this is objectively funny. I don't think the posing looks incredible on the box itself, so I'm glad we got to see it from other angles that make it look a lot better. I also like that the Death Mask looks like a deathmask that has been affixed to his helmet now, rather than looking like Sanguinus was given a mask that was part of a helmet mark that wasn't widely used at the time and that would have been three times too small to fit on his head.
90% of it is a really nice model, but I absolutely hate the head. The mask doesn't work with the Mk.X ears, the way the halo hovers, and how the central spikes on the halo are now wavy. Yuck.
Okay, something interesting. Notice the helmet on the base, possibly a Death Company with the red X? Looks to have been painted in a way to suggest it is spray painted on, which fits pretty well with the idea that Death Company Marines have their armour repainted when they fall to the rage… possible direction a new Primaris DC kit might take? A bit more rough and feral looking?
That video rather suggests that his Primaris conversion might not be too voluntary, but more of a situation where he's got very little to lose having being gravely wounded by something.
That video rather suggests that his Primaris conversion might not be too voluntary, but more of a situation where he's got very little to lose having being gravely wounded by something.
About time they did that approach. Should have done it with Calgar by having him fight Abaddon pre-Primaris, be mortally wounded (Optimus Prime style) and undergo the Rubicon to save his life.
That video rather suggests that his Primaris conversion might not be too voluntary, but more of a situation where he's got very little to lose having being gravely wounded by something.
About time they did that approach. Should have done it with Calgar by having him fight Abaddon pre-Primaris, be mortally wounded (Optimus Prime style) and undergo the Rubicon to save his life.
Didn’t they do that with Ragnar? It’s weird since I think he was somehow to weak for a dreadnought but not weak enough to die during the rubicon
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Ancient even for a Space Marine, there’s boundless life in the old dog yet, and he has now joined fellow legends like Mephiston, Ragnar Blackmane, Marneus Calgar, and Supreme Grand Master Azrael in venturing across the Rubicon Primaris.
See anything notable about the list of names?
They literally could have dumped Mephiston and Ragnar from the list and just said "Chapter Masters".
It isn't like a crazy amount of old characters have crossed.
That video rather suggests that his Primaris conversion might not be too voluntary, but more of a situation where he's got very little to lose having being gravely wounded by something.
Preliminary studies have shown that crossing the Rubicon Primaris on the brink of death raises the chance of surviving the process to a staggering 102%. Being the tactical genius that he is, Dante delayed his ascension until conditions were just right. That's also why it took so long to get a primarisized version.
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Dante gets a real jump pack, Shrike gets…whatever he has…?
I guess so, but the whole Phobos/vanguard style is very lore appropriate for the Raven Guard too.
I guessed wrong. He was left off the list as pointed out.
I do agree his style pack fits the stealth nature of him and his chapter. It is nice to see full up primaris jump packs though. Would be better to see them on a squad of assault intercessors though…
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Ancient even for a Space Marine, there’s boundless life in the old dog yet, and he has now joined fellow legends like Mephiston, Ragnar Blackmane, Marneus Calgar, and Supreme Grand Master Azrael in venturing across the Rubicon Primaris.
See anything notable about the list of names?
They literally could have dumped Mephiston and Ragnar from the list and just said "Chapter Masters".
It isn't like a crazy amount of old characters have crossed.
Good spot. Maybe he’s just hiding though, like a good Raven Guard should.
General Kroll wrote: I keep seeing here and on Facebook people claiming that multiple kits were sent out to multiple people.
I’ve only seen the original pictures posted though. Can’t find any sign of other here, on B&C or on FB.
Anyone able to point me in the right direction?
A few other people claimed it but nobody else seems to have provided evidence, they were likely making it up for clout and people didn't realise the opened painted model picture was from the same person who had put up the box.
Anyway, yeah, this is objectively funny. I don't think the posing looks incredible on the box itself, so I'm glad we got to see it from other angles that make it look a lot better. I also like that the Death Mask looks like a deathmask that has been affixed to his helmet now, rather than looking like Sanguinus was given a mask that was part of a helmet mark that wasn't widely used at the time and that would have been three times too small to fit on his head.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Dante gets a real jump pack, Shrike gets…whatever he has…?
I guess so, but the whole Phobos/vanguard style is very lore appropriate for the Raven Guard too.
I guessed wrong. He was left off the list as pointed out.
I do agree his style pack fits the stealth nature of him and his chapter. It is nice to see full up primaris jump packs though. Would be better to see them on a squad of assault intercessors though…
I’d be shocked if we didn’t see Primaris jump infantry soon. Presumably with a twist to make them distinct enough from regular assault marines that we can’t use those as Primaris versions etc.
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Ancient even for a Space Marine, there’s boundless life in the old dog yet, and he has now joined fellow legends like Mephiston, Ragnar Blackmane, Marneus Calgar, and Supreme Grand Master Azrael in venturing across the Rubicon Primaris.
See anything notable about the list of names?
They literally could have dumped Mephiston and Ragnar from the list and just said "Chapter Masters".
It isn't like a crazy amount of old characters have crossed.
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Ancient even for a Space Marine, there’s boundless life in the old dog yet, and he has now joined fellow legends like Mephiston, Ragnar Blackmane, Marneus Calgar, and Supreme Grand Master Azrael in venturing across the Rubicon Primaris.
See anything notable about the list of names?
They literally could have dumped Mephiston and Ragnar from the list and just said "Chapter Masters".
It isn't like a crazy amount of old characters have crossed.
Dante is competently done and thankfully not just a golden version of those first wave flying gravis chonkers. I'd personally have preferred if they had given him one of the Sanguinary guard style jump packs instead. Still, it's an easy enough swap.
I don't think you should be allowed to pick a second-string legion/chapter as your guys and then complain that it doesn't get the respect of a lore-favoured alternative, just seems a bit off.
I guessed wrong. He was left off the list as pointed out.
I do agree his style pack fits the stealth nature of him and his chapter. It is nice to see full up primaris jump packs though. Would be better to see them on a squad of assault intercessors though…
Frankly, this was my concern about Shrike being peddled the way he did. As soon as BA came out, there was inevitably going to be a jump character and the whole stupid crap would start back up about how RG players should just shut up.
They missed an amazing opportunity with Shrike to redefine the Chapter's playstyle and add not just one but three characters in one go. Especially since they chose to introduce the whole "Trifold Path" bit to their lore.
Kanluwen wrote: Still meh. And no respect for Shrike, per usual
How does this disrespect Shrike?
Ancient even for a Space Marine, there’s boundless life in the old dog yet, and he has now joined fellow legends like Mephiston, Ragnar Blackmane, Marneus Calgar, and Supreme Grand Master Azrael in venturing across the Rubicon Primaris.
See anything notable about the list of names?
Yeah, they're all characters with models from 2nd Ed, something Shrike isn't.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
Primarchs are like lobsters, growing indefinitely as they age and molting into a new shell every few years.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
Primarchs are like lobsters, growing indefinitely as they age and molting into a new shell every few years.
That makes more sense than a lot of the official stuff
I don't know, it leaves me cold. There's nothing specifically wrong with it, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I feel the same with the Azrael redo. Yep, you checked all the boxes and it's technically well done, but it's missing something. A spark of life, I dunno. Maybe I've just seen too many space marine models.
The Power Cosmic wrote: I don't know it leaves me cold. There's nothing specifically wrong with it, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I feel the same with the Azrael redo. Yep, you checked all the boxes and it's technically well done, but it's missing something. A spark of life, I dunno. Maybe I've just seen too many space marine models.
It's missing the same thing most sculpts have ever since they moved to 3d instead of hand sculpting: a soul. Everything feels hollow and artificial
The Power Cosmic wrote: I don't know it leaves me cold. There's nothing specifically wrong with it, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I feel the same with the Azrael redo. Yep, you checked all the boxes and it's technically well done, but it's missing something. A spark of life, I dunno. Maybe I've just seen too many space marine models.
It's missing the same thing most sculpts have ever since they moved to 3d instead of hand sculpting: a soul. Everything feels hollow and artificial
We're all just growing old and losing our sense of childlike wonder and enchantment
Dante looks great, in my oppinion.
Really glad he didnt get wings and exessive bling, just like the humble old model.
I think first born Dante fealt he had to cross the Rubicon Primaris when Guilliman first met him and said "hey kiddo, run and fetch the commander will ya"
The Power Cosmic wrote: I don't know it leaves me cold. There's nothing specifically wrong with it, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I feel the same with the Azrael redo. Yep, you checked all the boxes and it's technically well done, but it's missing something. A spark of life, I dunno. Maybe I've just seen too many space marine models.
It's missing the same thing most sculpts have ever since they moved to 3d instead of hand sculpting: a soul. Everything feels hollow and artificial
Yes, because the old Dante was a work of art
I'm not big on the Tactical rock part of the model but the Primaris-fied named characters have been soooooo much better as a whole than the old manlet Marines.
I think the only reason Dante crossed the Rubicon willingly, was that Gulliman told him, that with his advanced age, there was a big risk he might die in the process.
Never letting down a chance to finally kick the bucket, Dante jumped in. Only to come back to live, grumbling that once again, he had survived.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
It was always supposed to be ambiguous.
In the new Dante article they flat out say the Axe Mortalis has been upscaled to match his new bulk. So I guess it would not be a problem for the forge masters to take other iconic equipment and adjust it for users of different size.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
It was always supposed to be ambiguous.
In the new Dante article they flat out say the Axe Mortalis has been upscaled to match his new bulk. So I guess it would not be a problem for the forge masters to take other iconic equipment and adjust it for users of different size.
Maybe it works like magic items in D&D, and resize to fit the wearer
The Power Cosmic wrote: I don't know it leaves me cold. There's nothing specifically wrong with it, it just doesn't do anything for me.
I feel the same with the Azrael redo. Yep, you checked all the boxes and it's technically well done, but it's missing something. A spark of life, I dunno. Maybe I've just seen too many space marine models.
It's missing the same thing most sculpts have ever since they moved to 3d instead of hand sculpting: a soul. Everything feels hollow and artificial
That's part of it, but its also because the artists are influenced by completely different things like video games and anime.
SoB are technically good but the hair and faces look like anime waifus so you gotta put the helmets on. Then there are others that are just un-salvageable like Chaos and IG.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
iirc the gauntlets were never specified as belonging to Gulliman, I think they were rediscovered tech, could have been retconned as Gulliman's gear at some point I suppose.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
iirc the gauntlets were never specified as belonging to Gulliman, I think they were rediscovered tech, could have been retconned as Gulliman's gear at some point I suppose.
Not only rediscovered tech, rediscovered tech taken from a chaos champion.
Meanwhile the Lion Helm exists... though I'm not even sure these days if it's supposed to be LeJ's actual helmet.
The fists of Macragge also would obviously not fit on Guilliman's hands. But we are where we are. Chapter Masters carrying round things from their primarch has never really worked since they made primarchs fifteen feet tall.
It was always supposed to be ambiguous.
In the new Dante article they flat out say the Axe Mortalis has been upscaled to match his new bulk. So I guess it would not be a problem for the forge masters to take other iconic equipment and adjust it for users of different size.
All these ancient artefacts are just Trigger's Broom, constant repairs and upgrades, but still the original item, yessir, kept pristine through millennia of service, give that man a purity seal.
Poor GW, so close of keeping it a secret and yet so far.
I think the mini has some nice ideas and details and the pose is quite dynamic, yet, again, I cannot really say I like it because the main feature, the helmet, just is not working well at all. It's like a mask stuck in the front of the normal primaris helmet, its not integrated or credible, its like a carnival mask.
You can tease the previous sculpt has being small, old and dated, but the head there is better executed.
Hopefully they have different heads options for this model.
I'm pretty sure there is a 'Dante like' head on the old Blood angels upgrade sprue, the non-Primaris one. So that could be an option if it is in scale.
NAVARRO wrote: You can tease the previous sculpt has being small, old and dated, but the head there is better executed.
Dante's armour always referenced classical antiquity visual cues. As such, the new design actually looks like the faceplate it should have always been, rather than the proto-Stromcast Man in the Iron Mask design.
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
If you seriously thing the old model is better you really are seeing things through rose tinted glasses. I bet you talk about the "good old days" how everything was better, bla bla even though now is the true golden times where gw actually care about balance, fir whatever reasons.
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
It would have been nice if there was a sensation of growth with the Rubricon characters. Make us really feel like this is Dante further along his story, not just after he bought a new set of pants.
Have him sitting on a big dead bloodthirster chunk or something, glaring out like he's just fed up with everyone at this point. "I've killed this guy 30 times now, he just keeps coming back screaming about ending our lineage and all that."
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
Gotta admire the dedication to grind this particular axe.
Step 1: Models from the earliest days of 40k get updated.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: It's all tournament players fault!
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
Gotta admire the dedication to grind this particular axe.
Step 1: Models from the earliest days of 40k get updated.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: It's all tournament players fault!
Dante is what, about 30 years old at this point? And still in an outdated casting medium that they're actively trying to remove from their lineup? What should they realistically have done, re-cast his decades old master in plastic?
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
If you seriously thing the old model is better you really are seeing things through rose tinted glasses. I bet you talk about the "good old days" how everything was better, bla bla even though now is the true golden times where gw actually care about balance, fir whatever reasons.
Gw doesn't care about balance but they realized changing imbalance to another imbalance at faster pace gets tryhards buy new armies all the time.
Interesting that the article mentions "he wields his melta-spewing Perdition Pistol", the last time he had a Perdition Pistol instead of an Inferno/Infernus Pistol was in the White Dwarf codex. It had full 12 inches of meltagun range then, an indication of new rules for this incarnation?
Santtu wrote: Interesting that the article mentions "he wields his melta-spewing Perdition Pistol", the last time he had a Perdition Pistol instead of an Inferno/Infernus Pistol was in the White Dwarf codex. It had full 12 inches of meltagun range then, an indication of new rules for this incarnation?
Oh, the days when he had THE inferno pistol, only one of its kind. Good times.
Just found out that the Vashtorr book describes a character of "The Dreamer" (so the person from the initial prophecy), who he calls "The Exile King", does that make any sense with the Lion? I've not read all the Horus Heresy novels so I don't know if that could be referring to something specific about him, if it is him as the rumours say.
IIRC it says he no longer fights alone too. I think the Lion is going to turn up with a force of fallen to save the DA from the trap Vashtorr has set for them.
New Dante looks pretty good. But something has gone wrong with the loincloth. It looks like he's struggling with a wet towel. A loincloth is also a really bad idea on someone who is going to descend at high speed - it will invariably end up in his face.
Kanluwen wrote: All of these "X crossed the Rubicon!" models lack not a spark of life, but a reason to care.
It's just lazy redos. They're leaving the how or why of us caring on the table with the corpses.
Welcome to Tournament-Hammer where the models are meaningless game pieces and all that matters is 'what can it do to win games'. Pandering to the tourny-gakkers has mutated W40K into analog Skylanders.
Gotta admire the dedication to grind this particular axe.
Step 1: Models from the earliest days of 40k get updated.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: It's all tournament players fault!
Dante is what, about 30 years old at this point? And still in an outdated casting medium that they're actively trying to remove from their lineup? What should they realistically have done, re-cast his decades old master in plastic?
Gamers want what they always want...for new stuff to be exactly the same as the old stuff...but BETTER. It's true for miniatures or rulebooks.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I think the thing I really don't like about him is the helmet. It looks like a Primaris helmet with a cheap Halloween face mask over the top.
Yeah. It's a little bit... well...
Like Big Bob peeled the mask off Dante's old armour and taped it onto the front of his new embiggened helmet.
Or like he has golden flabby jowl rolls around his neck. Nasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Little known fact?
His first name is Al.
That's a topic you can sink your teeth in.
Wayniac wrote:It's missing the same thing most sculpts have ever since they moved to 3d instead of hand sculpting: a soul. Everything feels hollow and artificial
Whuh...?
Wayniac wrote:Maybe it works like magic items in D&D, and resize to fit the wearer
Cawl at play with his newly uncovered archaeotech:
Dawnbringer wrote:I'm pretty sure there is a 'Dante like' head on the old Blood angels upgrade sprue, the non-Primaris one. So that could be an option if it is in scale.
Ah, well, I think I have some spare stormcast heads about here too. Can I interest anyone? Only £5 a pop.
NAVARRO wrote: Poor GW, so close of keeping it a secret and yet so far.
I think the mini has some nice ideas and details and the pose is quite dynamic, yet, again, I cannot really say I like it because the main feature, the helmet, just is not working well at all. It's like a mask stuck in the front of the normal primaris helmet, its not integrated or credible, its like a carnival mask.
Funny enough with it literally being called death MASK that I'm actually just fine with. It is literally artefact called "Death Mask of Sanguinius".
NAVARRO wrote: Poor GW, so close of keeping it a secret and yet so far.
I think the mini has some nice ideas and details and the pose is quite dynamic, yet, again, I cannot really say I like it because the main feature, the helmet, just is not working well at all. It's like a mask stuck in the front of the normal primaris helmet, its not integrated or credible, its like a carnival mask.
Funny enough with it literally being called death MASK that I'm actually just fine with. It is literally artefact called "Death Mask of Sanguinius".
And where would all the helmet breathers, sensors, and other equipment go if it was pasted right to the face like older models?
NAVARRO wrote: Poor GW, so close of keeping it a secret and yet so far.
I think the mini has some nice ideas and details and the pose is quite dynamic, yet, again, I cannot really say I like it because the main feature, the helmet, just is not working well at all. It's like a mask stuck in the front of the normal primaris helmet, its not integrated or credible, its like a carnival mask.
Funny enough with it literally being called death MASK that I'm actually just fine with. It is literally artefact called "Death Mask of Sanguinius".
And where would all the helmet breathers, sensors, and other equipment go if it was pasted right to the face like older models?
Helmet below it? Who says it's right in the face?
And of course who says mask can't have sensors etc in it anyway? What? Mask is 1mm deep?
(and besides where do marine leaders even need sensors when they have old tradition of running in battlefield helmetless anyway )
tneva82 wrote: Funny enough with it literally being called death MASK that I'm actually just fine with. It is literally artefact called "Death Mask of Sanguinius".
That's what we call a "style over substance" argument.
If it IS the death mask of Sanguinius, a primarch-sized face should fit comfortably over even the biggest marine helmet without leaving ugly spaces around the edges.
I mean I would expect an Ork to crudely slap a mask in front of his helmet, but Dante? I would prefer to see something more integrated specially since we are talking Primaris armour and Dante.
Shakalooloo wrote: If it IS the death mask of Sanguinius, a primarch-sized face should fit comfortably over even the biggest marine helmet without leaving ugly spaces around the edges.
Yeah, a giant wrap-around face. That'd look much less "ugly"...
The mask could stand to be bigger on the new model. The thing that sticks out is how much it... sticks out. It's poorly integrated into the helmet. As several have noted (hello) it looks too much like a badly angled, badly fitting halloween mask. It's too noticeable.
And so there's going to have to be extra work in a fix, or extra bits bought for a big showcase character model, that should have gone through rigorous design and QC, and that will already cost a lot.
The rest of the model? Fine. Great. No complaints. The head, the face, the part of the human figure that the eye zips to first, that we all relate to the most?
A wise man once said, you might not have noticed, but your brain did.
Honestly I just find making everything primaris to be incredibly lame. They could easily at this point start redoing firstborn and upscaling them. But no, continuing on the primaris train despite mixed reception. I'm fairly certain we will never see a firstborn miniature again outside of Horus heresy. Which makes the whole danger of crossing the Rubicon primaris pointless since nobody important has ever or will ever die during it. It's a cop out. They won't kill off a named character to bring on a brand new Primaris one, just take the old ones and, rather than just upscale firstborn make them bland primaris versions who are basically the same but not.
Wayniac wrote: Honestly I just find making everything primaris to be incredibly lame. They could easily at this point start redoing firstborn and upscaling them. But no, continuing on the primaris train despite mixed reception. I'm fairly certain we will never see a firstborn miniature again outside of Horus heresy. Which makes the whole danger of crossing the Rubicon primaris pointless since nobody important has ever or will ever die during it. It's a cop out. They won't kill off a named character to bring on a brand new Primaris one, just take the old ones and, rather than just upscale firstborn make them bland primaris versions who are basically the same but not.
I'm glad after 6 years this has become apparent to you.
- Apparently stuff is hidden in the background of teaser images
- Mainly about the '1 week to go' Adepticon teaser image
- The left side is a Tyranid symbol, duh
- Valrak concludes from this that they'll show the 10th edition trailer at Adepticon
It feels to me like we're in the phase where we are probably just threading water before the upcoming official stuff
Unless we get another surprise leak, i think not much will happen before Adepticon anymore. Today's Tarot card, and then it's just waiting.
Don’t see what the big deal is, Dante helmet looks totally fine with me. It’s pretty much what I’d expect it to look like. It’s a great model but since I don’t play Blood Angels, I’ll have to pass on him just like the excellent Mephiston
Wayniac wrote: Honestly I just find making everything primaris to be incredibly lame. They could easily at this point start redoing firstborn and upscaling them. But no, continuing on the primaris train despite mixed reception. I'm fairly certain we will never see a firstborn miniature again outside of Horus heresy. Which makes the whole danger of crossing the Rubicon primaris pointless since nobody important has ever or will ever die during it. It's a cop out. They won't kill off a named character to bring on a brand new Primaris one, just take the old ones and, rather than just upscale firstborn make them bland primaris versions who are basically the same but not.
Castellan Crowe got rescaled without becoming Primaris
bullyboy wrote: Don’t see what the big deal is, Dante helmet looks totally fine with me. It’s pretty much what I’d expect it to look like. It’s a great model but since I don’t play Blood Angels, I’ll have to pass on him just like the excellent Mephiston
Whoa careful there, sounds like positivity, they don’t like round these parts.
Vermis wrote: A wise man once said, you might not have noticed, but your brain did.
I think we can safely say we've all noticed. It's just that some of us like what we see.
I personally like that the new version acknowledges that it's supposed to be a helmet with a mask attached to it - a reasonable application of Roman faceplates in the context of a pre-existing Primaris design.
Nevelon wrote: Inverse galaxy could be Imperium Nilus, which is being held together by Dante, who we just saw.
Just guessing.
Yeah, IMHO they want to go for an Arthurian/Dark Ages England vibe with the Galaxy, where one half of the 'Land' is de facto under the rule of the Saxons or Danelaw.
Nevelon wrote: Inverse galaxy could be Imperium Nilus, which is being held together by Dante, who we just saw.
Just guessing.
Yeah, IMHO they want to go for an Arthurian/Dark Ages England vibe with the Galaxy, where one half of the 'Land' is de facto under the rule of the Saxons or Danelaw.
Alternatively, it could be the shadow in the warp of the Tyranids. Which are also looming on the rumor-scope. Different kind of darkness.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Yeah, and the 9th edition trailer was revealed at least a month (or so) before we seen a model for the 9th edition box set.
It's how GW seems to do things now
Last year's Adepticon showed the trailer video for HH and two of the new models, a beakie and a praetor.
That's probably a more reliable indicator for 10e given that 9e was unveiled under lots of release schedule disruption. I think they'll show the 40k trailer plus single terminator & Tyranid minis.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Yeah, and the 9th edition trailer was revealed at least a month (or so) before we seen a model for the 9th edition box set.
It's how GW seems to do things now
Last year's Adepticon showed the trailer video for HH and two of the new models, a beakie and a praetor.
That's probably a more reliable indicator for 10e given that 9e was unveiled under lots of release schedule disruption. I think they'll show the 40k trailer plus single terminator & Tyranid minis.
If the "Galaxy Inversed" speak of change and destiny and reality that bleeds, I instantly think of tzeench.
Its just another "it was the changeling all along!" cop out.
Sits well with Valrak's speculation about a 10th trailer at Adepticon.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with an overall nostalgia train pulling through the station for the 40th Anniversary of Warhammer (albeit Fantasy rather than 40K).
If 10th isn't coming this summer then GW is turning over a new leaf in its rules release cycle. You can make a checklist at this point:
Three years since last Edition? Check.
All codexes updated to new edition? Check.
Releasing a limited run of campaign books? Check.
Campaign books schedule ends in spring? Check.
Yeah. 10th Edition is coming. But I think they will delay the announcement to avoid stepping no the toes of Arks of Omen Book V. That books needs to be announced really soon. I wonder when they will get around to that?
We don't know how many releases they have jammed up in the pipeline for the tail end of 9th. They are just racing through these Boarding Patrol releases.
It's possible when they want 10th to come out might not be possible.
there was already such an argument for 9th, that because of external problems GW should change the timing as they cannot get everything out in time and/or cannot get the stuff after released in time
and yet GW did not care, and they won't care this time either (even if they release the last 9th Edition stuff after 10th is out)
Yea some random boxes of miniatures won't delay 10th.
AoO books will be out way before 10th and any new models likewise. Rest won't be issue even if somehow comes later. And frankly doubt that's even needed...What multi month release is to be expected anyway? AoO is down to last book. Not much new models pre-10th is even rumoured and we have still months left before 10th comes.
GW release schedule doesn't exactly even feel panicked "got to get everything out double fast!"
Andykp wrote:Whoa careful there, sounds like positivity, they don’t like round these parts.
You're talking about this forum, right?
His Master's Voice wrote:I think we can safely say we've all noticed. It's just that some of us like what we see.
How do I put this circumspectly?
At this point I'm probably supposed to backpedal and say things like 'oh, well, everyone's opinion is valid' and 'subjectivity means everyone's right'.
But I look at Dante's mask perched on his forehead like a yamabushi's little hat, and it's just not working out that way.
Y'know?
a reasonable application of Roman faceplates in the context of a pre-existing Primaris design.
Further to that it's not like the helmet has optical suites, breathing apparatus and all the other fun stuff inside that means the inside doesn't have to 1:1 match the exterior. Likely the face which is almost certainly bigger than Dante's has been padded out behind it with all the tech gubbins and had specific space given over to make it fit on a helm. Otherwise do you assume the marines mouths go right into the point on a grey knight helm etc.
Failing that, yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion and no ones is more or less valid than others.
I am pretty sure someone will eventually make a better looking dance helmet.
I am looking forward to the news that might show up this week, and I hope that the rumoured terminators at least get a few pics to see!
Also, this is wholly unsubstantiated, but do you guys think that the indomitus heresy terminators that might be showing up will be the same kit, or as on previous editions, the terminators might be exclusive to the 10th boxed set and with a separate multipart release later?
tneva82 wrote: Yea some random boxes of miniatures won't delay 10th.
AoO books will be out way before 10th and any new models likewise. Rest won't be issue even if somehow comes later. And frankly doubt that's even needed...What multi month release is to be expected anyway? AoO is down to last book. Not much new models pre-10th is even rumoured and we have still months left before 10th comes.
GW release schedule doesn't exactly even feel panicked "got to get everything out double fast!"
It's pretty much just their standard one thing a month schedule:
April - AoO IV, Farsight, Snikrott
May - AoO V, Dante, Lion[?]
June - Leviathan Starter Box, Indexes
Then spend the next 3 years churning through 30-40 Codexes and Supplements.
I’ve no issue with them releasing a new edition every three years. That seems a reasonable schedule to me. What I do have a problem with is stretching the codices out over that three year period.
Get them all out within 12 months. Just get it done and allow people to enjoy the edition on a level playing field for the two years left of the cycle.
Year two and three they can use for a narrative campaign and things like boarding actions.
I’d have bought all that space hulk scenery and rules if I had any faith that they’d still be useable by the time I’d painted them. But we all know the rules support will tail off. They might be part of 10th. But I bet they won’t be part of 11th.
General Kroll wrote: I’ve no issue with them releasing a new edition every three years. That seems a reasonable schedule to me. What I do have a problem with is stretching the codices out over that three year period.
Get them all out within 12 months. Just get it done and allow people to enjoy the edition on a level playing field for the two years left of the cycle.
Year two and three they can use for a narrative campaign and things like boarding actions.
I’d have bought all that space hulk scenery and rules if I had any faith that they’d still be useable by the time I’d painted them. But we all know the rules support will tail off. They might be part of 10th. But I bet they won’t be part of 11th.
It remains to be seen how the rumoured large re-write of things like the unit profile pans out - if it is really as far-reaching as the large rumour makes out, you'd have to redo everything, and in that case waiting 3 years for a codex that is up to date for the new system is a really gakky situation to be in. Unless of course the 'Indexes' are basically complete at the get-go and remain the standard for the majority of armies until late in 10th edition.
General Kroll wrote: I’ve no issue with them releasing a new edition every three years. That seems a reasonable schedule to me. What I do have a problem with is stretching the codices out over that three year period.
Get them all out within 12 months. Just get it done and allow people to enjoy the edition on a level playing field for the two years left of the cycle.
Year two and three they can use for a narrative campaign and things like boarding actions.
I’d have bought all that space hulk scenery and rules if I had any faith that they’d still be useable by the time I’d painted them. But we all know the rules support will tail off. They might be part of 10th. But I bet they won’t be part of 11th.
Not enough months in a year. They would not get people start as many armies with new codex. The releases would compete with each other.
tneva82 wrote: Yea some random boxes of miniatures won't delay 10th.
AoO books will be out way before 10th and any new models likewise. Rest won't be issue even if somehow comes later. And frankly doubt that's even needed...What multi month release is to be expected anyway? AoO is down to last book. Not much new models pre-10th is even rumoured and we have still months left before 10th comes.
GW release schedule doesn't exactly even feel panicked "got to get everything out double fast!"
AOO books 3 & 4 only two weeks apart does seem a little rushed. We should have roughly 10 preorder weekends left before the most likely release date for 10th edition (two week preorder starting mid-June).
Even before Adepticon, we have enough confirmed pending stuff to fill most of those dates:
40K = AOO book 5 plus models and boarding patrol boxes. Maybe the WE combat patrol Kill Team box
AOS = 2 death battletomes
AOS = Major range refresh for Seraphon, likely with 2-3 release slots
HH = More tanks, plus whatever is shown this Thursday. Likely two release slots before summer.
Necromunda & WHU
I expect we'll see something like this:
Seraphon launch box April / early May
AOO book 5 & related models in stores for the final weekend in April
Death battletomes a few weeks later
Further Seraphon waves in May / early June
That gives GW all of May to put 40k focus on the marketing hype for 10E, which no doubt has 4+ weeks worth of daily articles being lined up.
lord_blackfang wrote: An even playing field is the last thing GW wants. You're supposed to chase the meta.
Which people do so well! Just watch 2nd hand prices and stock levels chase the meta and you'll see there's plenty of people just waiting to buy "what's good".
alextroy wrote: If 10th isn't coming this summer then GW is turning over a new leaf in its rules release cycle. You can make a checklist at this point:
Three years since last Edition? Check.
All codexes updated to new edition? Check.
Releasing a limited run of campaign books? Check.
Campaign books schedule ends in spring? Check.
Yeah. 10th Edition is coming. But I think they will delay the announcement to avoid stepping no the toes of Arks of Omen Book V. That books needs to be announced really soon. I wonder when they will get around to that?
I doubt very much that they care about 'stepping on the toes' of their junk filler books.
At this point 40k needs a bit more than scraping the bottom of the SC remake barrel to fill an otherwise empty release schedule for their primary system.
What they need to do is stop this nonsense approach of dragging things out and then redo it in 3 years. Put out a complete index for everything, ignore codexes and add supplements that give something to several factions in one go. None of this dragging out releases and changing direction midway through so everything before is one way and everything after is a different way.
Wayniac wrote: What they need to do is stop this nonsense approach of dragging things out and then redo it in 3 years. Put out a complete index for everything, ignore codexes and add supplements that give something to several factions in one go. None of this dragging out releases and changing direction midway through so everything before is one way and everything after is a different way.
I imagine the metrics and data aren't there to support taking the gamble on a radically altered release cycle. If it flopped for them it'd kneecap any expansion or force a more radical change mid-cycle than they do now.
They do if they get proof it gives more profit than current one that encourages impulse starting armies(sure they could release all codex at once...but who starts 20 armies at once?) and tryhards chasing current hotness.
It's not a bug but feature. Everything is aimed at selling models.
they still can release the codex books together with new models or starter boxes
just need to write and test them all together and have a design plan going with them
there is simply no reason for a mid-edition design shift or not all books being on the same level except for "don't care at all about rules"
kodos wrote: they still can release the codex books together with new models or starter boxes
just need to write and test them all together and have a design plan going with them
there is simply no reason for a mid-edition design shift or not all books being on the same level except for "don't care at all about rules"
That still isn't very consumer friendly, look at crusade content. Chaos marines and guard etc spent most of the edition with no bespoke content for a main feature of the edition. Same with strats etc in 8th.
yes this is still not consumer friendly, yet it will solve the codex creep problem to some point and still work with their sales models
no, it is not a problem for Crusade like content because a game should be meant to be there for longer
that GW releases a new game every 3 years and call it "edition" to give the illusion of continuity is a different problem
if it would be just a new Edition, you would have that problem the first time the game is released and not with every edition as the Crusade rules would be there and valid with the next one
General Kroll wrote: I’ve no issue with them releasing a new edition every three years. That seems a reasonable schedule to me. What I do have a problem with is stretching the codices out over that three year period.
Get them all out within 12 months. Just get it done and allow people to enjoy the edition on a level playing field for the two years left of the cycle.
Year two and three they can use for a narrative campaign and things like boarding actions.
I’d have bought all that space hulk scenery and rules if I had any faith that they’d still be useable by the time I’d painted them. But we all know the rules support will tail off. They might be part of 10th. But I bet they won’t be part of 11th.
Not enough months in a year. They would not get people start as many armies with new codex. The releases would compete with each other.
I guess so. But right now, I’m kind of getting the opposite of FOMO with these campaign books and space hulk sceneries. I’m not scared of missing out because I know it’s going to be meaningless in eight weeks time. I try and get together with friends maybe two or three times a month. So that gives me maybe two or three games using the rules in these books. What’s the point?
kodos wrote: they still can release the codex books together with new models or starter boxes
just need to write and test them all together and have a design plan going with them
there is simply no reason for a mid-edition design shift or not all books being on the same level except for "don't care at all about rules"
That would risk even books. Antithesis for marketing
It mentions to keep an eye out at Adepticon for more, so I guess we're getting at least something (still predicting we'll get a HH style animated trailer for 10th, no models as such).
My personal theory is that this is for now all teasing Nids vs Termies as the final Kill Team Gallowdark chapter, which may or may not then tie into a Nids vs Marines 10th edition starter. Pretty sure the final 1st edition Kill Team box also matched the 40k starter set matchup of the time.
Can we take bets from people on:
- Space hulk
- 10th ed
- Both
I'm standing by the 10th ed side of this but there's a lot out there that were just expecting a space hulk (involving ultramarine terminators and gaunts no less).
lord_blackfang wrote: My personal theory is that this is for now all teasing Nids vs Termies as the final Kill Team Gallowdark chapter, which may or may not then tie into a Nids vs Marines 10th edition starter. Pretty sure the final 1st edition Kill Team box also matched the 40k starter set matchup of the time.
First edition in the lofty heights of 6/7th was tau vs marines, starter was CSM vs DA 2nd edition was in 8th and features GSC vs Admech, starter set was DG vs marines
3rd edition is Krieg vs Orks obviously and current starter is crons vs marines
To add to this the flavour text of the video is: "That great psychic squall blocking interstellar communication has lifted for but a moment. Images have been broadcast from the surface of an embattled world" so specifically not on a ship or hulk.
The tweet implies Space Hulk but the WarCom article clearly says it's from the surface of a planet hurtling through the warp. They are really screwing with us now. Unless its a death star type thing.
The tweet implies Space Hulk but the WarCom article clearly says it's from the surface of a planet hurtling through the warp. They are really screwing with us now. Unless its a death star type thing.
I think you’ve misconstrued what the Community article said.
That great psychic squall blocking interstellar communication has lifted for but a moment. Images have been broadcast from the surface of an embattled world – spearing through a great shadow in the warp.
It’s not the planet spearing through the warp, but the images.
I'm assuming we'll continue to get teasers of the Terminator and the 'nid staring into each other's eyes until one finally works up the nerve to kiss the other.
I half wonder if it's an all-in type affair. It's Kill Team, Space Hulk and 10th all sharing one launch - buy your walls with KT, floor tiles with hulk and bigger armies with 10th..
I half wonder if it's an all-in type affair. It's Kill Team, Space Hulk and 10th all sharing one launch - buy your walls with KT, floor tiles with hulk and bigger armies with 10th..
Better. It is just one huge box that is at the same time a board game, a next KT, and a starter for 10th. GW ingeniousness level unreachable!
I half wonder if it's an all-in type affair. It's Kill Team, Space Hulk and 10th all sharing one launch - buy your walls with KT, floor tiles with hulk and bigger armies with 10th..
Better. It is just one huge box that is at the same time a board game, a next KT, and a starter for 10th. GW ingeniousness level unreachable!
inflatablefriend wrote: I'm assuming we'll continue to get teasers of the Terminator and the 'nid staring into each other's eyes until one finally works up the nerve to kiss the other.
Thats just reminded me of the end of the first season of Doom Patrol where the Kaiju Rat and Cockroach...urgh!!!
Brickfix wrote: If it is kill Team, why does it have the 40k logo? Kill Team products have been marketed with the orange/Black background and the knife/skull emblem
I think that was the last edition of Kill Team, this is the current logo on Kill Team boxes:
The Phazer wrote: I would be quite glad if they were going to make it clear that the boarding actions rules would carry over to 10th to justify the Space Hulk mentions.
While GW never want to go too early it would be a lot easier to justify buying that terrain if it was going to have a purpose in six months time.
This is the single reason I haven't touched it with a barge pole.
lord_blackfang wrote: My personal theory is that this is for now all teasing Nids vs Termies as the final Kill Team Gallowdark chapter, which may or may not then tie into a Nids vs Marines 10th edition starter. Pretty sure the final 1st edition Kill Team box also matched the 40k starter set matchup of the time.
First edition in the lofty heights of 6/7th was tau vs marines, starter was CSM vs DA 2nd edition was in 8th and features GSC vs Admech, starter set was DG vs marines
3rd edition is Krieg vs Orks obviously and current starter is crons vs marines
So nope on all accounts.
The point you're trying to ignore is that the last box of the previous version of Kill Team was Fayled Ones versus Heavy Intercessors, which matched 9th ed released just over half a year earlier in that it was Necrons versus Marines. Your list does nothing to address or refute lord_blackfang's point.
The part of this idea that requires skepticism is that by the time the Kill Team box came around the latest edition of 40k had been released. Gallowfall should beat the release of 10th ed by a month or so. So it's not the same situation.
A point in favor of the proposed scenario is that 10th ed Marines versus Necrons can and probably will be announced at the same time as the Gallowfall contents, and therefore not accidentally give away 10th ed or its contents. The thing that gets in the way of it the most is that Kill Team probably shows off at least one model at Adepticon and there is no guarantee that the same is true of 10th ed. Any such model could hint at the design direction we'll see in the 10th ed starter factions and might therefore not be desirable to GW.
lord_blackfang wrote: My personal theory is that this is for now all teasing Nids vs Termies as the final Kill Team Gallowdark chapter, which may or may not then tie into a Nids vs Marines 10th edition starter. Pretty sure the final 1st edition Kill Team box also matched the 40k starter set matchup of the time.
First edition in the lofty heights of 6/7th was tau vs marines, starter was CSM vs DA 2nd edition was in 8th and features GSC vs Admech, starter set was DG vs marines
3rd edition is Krieg vs Orks obviously and current starter is crons vs marines
So nope on all accounts.
The point you're trying to ignore is that the last box of the previous version of Kill Team was Fayled Ones versus Heavy Intercessors, which matched 9th ed released just over half a year earlier in that it was Necrons versus Marines. Your list does nothing to address or refute lord_blackfang's point.
The part of this idea that requires skepticism is that by the time the Kill Team box came around the latest edition of 40k had been released. Gallowfall should beat the release of 10th ed by a month or so. So it's not the same situation.
A point in favor of the proposed scenario is that 10th ed Marines versus Necrons can and probably will be announced at the same time as the Gallowfall contents, and therefore not accidentally give away 10th ed or its contents. The thing that gets in the way of it the most is that Kill Team probably shows off at least one model at Adepticon and there is no guarantee that the same is true of 10th ed. Any such model could hint at the design direction we'll see in the 10th ed starter factions and might therefore not be desirable to GW.
That's fair I did misread the comment and yes you're right, pariah nexus was well after the 10th reveal and even launch.
But having a sample size of 1 isn't conducive to much.
lord_blackfang wrote: An even playing field is the last thing GW wants. You're supposed to chase the meta.
Which people do so well! Just watch 2nd hand prices and stock levels chase the meta and you'll see there's plenty of people just waiting to buy "what's good".
Brickfix wrote: If it is kill Team, why does it have the 40k logo? Kill Team products have been marketed with the orange/Black background and the knife/skull emblem
It could be the 40K universe which covers 40K, KT, Necro, AI, and BSF.
The Phazer wrote: I would be quite glad if they were going to make it clear that the boarding actions rules would carry over to 10th to justify the Space Hulk mentions.
While GW never want to go too early it would be a lot easier to justify buying that terrain if it was going to have a purpose in six months time.
Terrain has always use. Rules less so. Terrain good, books bad
lord_blackfang wrote: An even playing field is the last thing GW wants. You're supposed to chase the meta.
Which people do so well! Just watch 2nd hand prices and stock levels chase the meta and you'll see there's plenty of people just waiting to buy "what's good".
What meta are they chasing right now?
I refer you back to the mass out of stocking and subsequent mass ebay resale of plasma inceptors from a month or two back as a key example. Meta wise look at terminator sales and GSC, although they always were more expensive generally.
Conversely there's lots of tyranid warriors going 2nd hand I've noticed.
What if GW is planning to incorporate boarding party into 10th replacing, or incorporating, them into the campaign part of the rules with BP/space hulk/kill team. It seems to me that they are all working at the same scale for combat so shouldn't it be easy to just mash them all together?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: What if GW is planning to incorporate boarding party into 10th replacing, or incorporating, them into the campaign part of the rules with BP/space hulk/kill team. It seems to me that they are all working at the same scale for combat so shouldn't it be easy to just mash them all together?
that would require them to actually keep a set of terrain in stock for more than a year.
I'm not saying they haven't done it, but their track record of actually keeping terrain in stock for certain game modes is quite poor.
The old Advanced Space Crusade was pretty cool. Marine scouts vs Tyranid warriors aboard a bio ship. Never played it myself but I got the impression the marines were the swarm force, not quite sure how it would work (maybe required some smaller tyranid beasts).
If its 10th edition perhaps they have figured out a brand new way to "fix" armour in 40k, and therefor include terminators and tyranids as two opposites in the armour department, to showcase how awesome their new system works to balance the different styled factions.
Otherwise its a weird choise for a starter.
Fayric wrote: If its 10th edition perhaps they have figured out a brand new way to "fix" armour in 40k, and therefor include terminators and tyranids as two opposites in the armour department, to showcase how awesome their new system works to balance the different styled factions.
Otherwise its a weird choise for a starter.
It is no less weird than Marines v Necrons which is what we got for 9th edition. If GW are basically using starter sets to do a range refresh for a faction (again like they did with Necrons) then in many ways it makes lots of sense.
Total wish listing but I'd like 10th to bring about removal of complexity of umpteen stratagems.
Then use the reduced "complexity space" (for want of a better term) to bring back more "realism" elements like Vehicle armour facings and the old damage tables for effects.
So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be Votann vs Beastmen. I estimate the chance of Gallowfall being Idomi termies vs nids to be below 5%
I still think its 10th ed 40K or standalone Space Hulk
streetsamurai wrote: 10th edition for sure, but these are really bad previews. How many pics of eye have we got so far. Exciting stuff
I think they operate under the assumption that another drawn-out campaign of vague teasers and in-setting flair that's open up to interpretation would be too much after we had 20 weeks of it for Arks of Omen, and that they'd better jump to the hype straight away for 10th edition. Can't say that i personally disagree.
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tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be Votann vs Beastmen. I estimate the chance of Gallowfall being Idomi termies vs nids to be below 5%
I still think its 10th ed 40K or standalone Space Hulk
Can you point me to that scene please, preferably in a way that i can add to the OP?
tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be Votann vs Beastmen. I estimate the chance of Gallowfall being Idomi termies vs nids to be below 5%
I still think its 10th ed 40K or standalone Space Hulk
Again, it's a gaunt and the article states the images are from planetside, so for it to be space hulk, it'd actually be "Space Planet Surface Battle - Featuring terminators and a mixed Tyranid force!"
What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
At what point does Space Hulk stop being Space Hulk, if it isn't actually on a Space Hulk? It'd just be Warhammer Quest: Tyranid Hive or something, which would be very cool admittedly, but it's kinda slapping logic in the face at this point.
tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be Votann vs Beastmen. I estimate the chance of Gallowfall being Idomi termies vs nids to be below 5%
I still think its 10th ed 40K or standalone Space Hulk
Again, it's a gaunt and the article states the images are from planetside, so for it to be space hulk, it'd actually be "Space Planet Surface Battle - Featuring terminators and a mixed Tyranid force!"
It's Tyranids fighting in the ruins of Cadia and St. Josmane's Hope.
There's big ol' chunks of planetoid, so it can be both Space Hulk AND ground combat!
Necronmaniac05 wrote: What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
At what point does Space Hulk stop being Space Hulk, if it isn't actually on a Space Hulk? It'd just be Warhammer Quest: Tyranid Hive or something, which would be very cool admittedly, but it's kinda slapping logic in the face at this point.
We're probably overthinking it, it's just a joke from the Warhammer Community intern... people always take that stuff too serious and out of context, but if you're reading more than the first post in a thread it's clear they're just horsing around, the mention full zoat armies, fishmen and space fimir all the time, but somehow nobody falls for that
tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be Votann vs Beastmen. I estimate the chance of Gallowfall being Idomi termies vs nids to be below 5%
I still think its 10th ed 40K or standalone Space Hulk
Again, it's a gaunt and the article states the images are from planetside, so for it to be space hulk, it'd actually be "Space Planet Surface Battle - Featuring terminators and a mixed Tyranid force!"
Or... "Gallowfall" refers to the space hulk remnants falling from the sky onto a planet? Then the terminators are trying to blow it up or seal it before the contents can escape.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
At what point does Space Hulk stop being Space Hulk, if it isn't actually on a Space Hulk? It'd just be Warhammer Quest: Tyranid Hive or something, which would be very cool admittedly, but it's kinda slapping logic in the face at this point.
We're probably overthinking it, it's just a joke from the Warhammer Community intern... people always take that stuff too serious and out of context, but if you're reading more than the first post in a thread it's clear they're just horsing around, the mention full zoat armies, fishmen and space fimir all the time, but somehow nobody falls for that
Oh I know, but I'm literally astounded at the number of people who keep saying space hulk despite every little grain of logic and evidence saying otherwise and missing the pun entirely.
tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be ~
With KT not being my favorite game, no I don't.
I find KT tolerable enough to play with a friend who does really like it. But beyond the base rules & the compendium I just sort of ignore it otherwise.
As for the pics?
I'm betting Space Hulk. Seems about time to recycle it.
And if the 10th starter is BA vs Tyranids, + the new KT/Boarding Action terrain? It'd be a perfect time to launch an all new, more expensive, version of SPace Hulk.
tauist wrote: So none of yall follow KT21 scene? Gallowfall contents have already been all but confirmed to be ~
With KT not being my favorite game, no I don't.
I find KT tolerable enough to play with a friend who does really like it. But beyond the base rules & the compendium I just sort of ignore it otherwise.
As for the pics?
I'm betting Space Hulk. Seems about time to recycle it.
And if the 10th starter is BA vs Tyranids, + the new KT/Boarding Action terrain? It'd be a perfect time to launch an all new, more expensive, version of SPace Hulk.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
At what point does Space Hulk stop being Space Hulk, if it isn't actually on a Space Hulk? It'd just be Warhammer Quest: Tyranid Hive or something, which would be very cool admittedly, but it's kinda slapping logic in the face at this point.
We're probably overthinking it, it's just a joke from the Warhammer Community intern... people always take that stuff too serious and out of context, but if you're reading more than the first post in a thread it's clear they're just horsing around, the mention full zoat armies, fishmen and space fimir all the time, but somehow nobody falls for that
Oh I know, but I'm literally astounded at the number of people who keep saying space hulk despite every little grain of logic and evidence saying otherwise and missing the pun entirely.
Indeed. And not to forget there’s a whole 40K game mode set on a space hulk they’re using to shill plastic terrain right now. Can we also respect people a little and not call everyone who works in social media an intern? That too much to ask?
Necronmaniac05 wrote: What if they are doing some sort of Space Hulk/Warhammer Quest hybrid? Basically it would be space hulk with an increased enemies roster and some light levelling up mechanics. Unlikely, but maybe the next warhammer quest is likely to be a 40K themed one (if they do another) and Space Hulk already has that dungeon crawler vibe going on. It is not a big leap to combine the two.
At what point does Space Hulk stop being Space Hulk, if it isn't actually on a Space Hulk? It'd just be Warhammer Quest: Tyranid Hive or something, which would be very cool admittedly, but it's kinda slapping logic in the face at this point.
We're probably overthinking it, it's just a joke from the Warhammer Community intern... people always take that stuff too serious and out of context, but if you're reading more than the first post in a thread it's clear they're just horsing around, the mention full zoat armies, fishmen and space fimir all the time, but somehow nobody falls for that
Oh I know, but I'm literally astounded at the number of people who keep saying space hulk despite every little grain of logic and evidence saying otherwise and missing the pun entirely.
Indeed. And not to forget there’s a whole 40K game mode set on a space hulk they’re using to shill plastic terrain right now. Can we also respect people a little and not call everyone who works in social media an intern? That too much to ask?
To that end I don't think I've ever seen any UK jobs with "intern" in the name, it's not something we tend to have in my experience.
Tyran wrote: If it was Space Hulk then it would be a Genestealer, not a Warrior and Gaunt.
Would not put it past GW to re-launch Space Hulk as its own system and then "save" the classic Genestealers for an overpriced expansion.
I mean, it's not Space Hulk, I don't disagree - but I think if/when Space Hulk does come back, it's not going to be a one-off, it's going to have a whole bunch of different enemies versus various different marines doled out in overpriced sets over the course of a few years.
Tyran wrote: If it was Space Hulk then it would be a Genestealer, not a Warrior and Gaunt.
Would not put it past GW to re-launch Space Hulk as its own system and then "save" the classic Genestealers for an overpriced expansion.
I mean, it's not Space Hulk, I don't disagree - but I think if/when Space Hulk does come back, it's not going to be a one-off, it's going to have a whole bunch of different enemies versus various different marines doled out in overpriced sets over the course of a few years.
It would be a way to update various Terminator kits to a newer scale and proportions- Vanilla, Deathwing, Grey Knights
Tyran wrote: If it was Space Hulk then it would be a Genestealer, not a Warrior and Gaunt.
Tyranids as a whole have changed quite a bit in terms of lore since late Mr Halliwell designed the 1st edition of Space Hulk. I see no reason why an updated Space Hulk game couldn't incorporate gaunts and even Tyranid Warriors into the mix. Advanced Space Crusade already had tyranids and genestealers (+ orks, chaos as mind slaves), and you could play the game also with Space Hulk board tiles, so there is a precedent of sorts.
Anyways, my main point was, I do not believe this will be a new Kill Team box. Valrak & co have already said with high degree of probability Gallowfall is Votann (upgrade sprue team) vs Beastmen (new team), and there is nothing, on Reddit /r killteam at least, which would indicate otherwise. Valrak's track record of KT21 leaks has been pretty good so far, he even got Octarius right way back when nobody wanted/dared to believe we'd be getting plastic DKoK, he was also absolutely correct about Shadowvaults. I know he puts out a lot of videos and people make jokes about him, but when it comes to KT21 at least, he has a history of being on point.
Tyran wrote: If it was Space Hulk then it would be a Genestealer, not a Warrior and Gaunt.
Tyranids as a whole have changed quite a bit in terms of lore since late Mr Halliwell designed the 1st edition of Space Hulk. I see no reason why an updated Space Hulk game couldn't incorporate gaunts and even Tyranid Warriors into the mix. Advanced Space Crusade already had tyranids and genestealers (+ orks, chaos as mind slaves), and you could play the game also with Space Hulk board tiles, so there is a precedent of sorts.
While true, Genestealers are still the posterbugs for Space Hulk the same way Terminators are still the posterboys for it on the Imperial side of the equation.
I mean, technically speaking there is also no reason for a Space Game couldn't incorporate tactical marines and intercessors. And yet no one would assume Space Hulk from Tactical Marine vs Ork boy, even through it could and has happened lore wise.
Tyran wrote: If it was Space Hulk then it would be a Genestealer, not a Warrior and Gaunt.
Tyranids as a whole have changed quite a bit in terms of lore since late Mr Halliwell designed the 1st edition of Space Hulk. I see no reason why an updated Space Hulk game couldn't incorporate gaunts and even Tyranid Warriors into the mix. Advanced Space Crusade already had tyranids and genestealers (+ orks, chaos as mind slaves), and you could play the game also with Space Hulk board tiles, so there is a precedent of sorts.
While true, Genestealers are still the posterbugs for Space Hulk the same way Terminators are still the posterboys for it on the Imperial side of the equation.
I mean, technically speaking there is also no reason for a Space Game couldn't incorporate tactical marines and intercessors. And yet no one would assume Space Hulk from Tactical Marine vs Ork boy, even through it could and has happened lore wise.
I think there's only been two incarnations of tabletop Space Hulk though. They're a very different company from the one they were when the last version of SH was released (which iirc was around the time they had decided to trim their product line in a drastic fashion) let alone the original - I assume that a large majority or the customer base wasn't buying their stuff back then (or even born, for that matter). I really doubt there'd be many people too upset to see a twist on the formula, especially if it's expanded to include a classic variation on the game, which I would expect from any modern version given the scope of most modern GW stuff. They do sequels ala Marvel these days, look at what they're doing with everything else, Necromunda being a good example but pretty much everything else too (BB, BL, KT seasons etc etc).
lord_blackfang wrote: Well THAT smells like the sort of rebranding that doesn't come without an edition change
Oke of rhe rumour sets claimed completely new branding iirc?
Yeah, the Bolter&Chainsword rumour that arose shortly before the 50-page-doc did, they specifically claimed a new logo for Warhammer 40k and for some of the release boxes being called 'Path of something':
The main body is the same as the old one and has the same color, but the red line is a purple line now and the text is smaller. Underneath it now has less stylized feathered wings with an additional text: "something something Path", it wasn't "Blood Path", but something like this
Tsagualsa wrote: By the way, no idea if it helps anybody, but i checked several EU and UK trademark registries, and there's no evidence of any sort of new Warhammer 40k Logo - usually that kind of stuff gets registered long in advance of actually using it, mostly because there are periods during which it can be challenged, and you want to be out of these... Such listings are, by necessity and out of principle, public, so no listing practically means no new logo.
They just did a 'big' logo redesign a few years back (2020 for 40k, 2019 for stores and the general 'winged hammer' logo to represent both systems). Seems weird to do it again so soon.
Yeah, the last redesigned logo needs its next renewal in 2031 and is a protected design till then, and that's also the newest design from GW that can be found in the database. The only more recent database enty that contains the word 'Warhammer' is an unrelated trademark for an all-purpose laboratory disinfectant called 'WarHammer' that got registered in January
Tsagualsa wrote: By the way, no idea if it helps anybody, but i checked several EU and UK trademark registries, and there's no evidence of any sort of new Warhammer 40k Logo - usually that kind of stuff gets registered long in advance of actually using it, mostly because there are periods during which it can be challenged, and you want to be out of these... Such listings are, by necessity and out of principle, public, so no listing practically means no new logo.
They just did a 'big' logo redesign a few years back (2020 for 40k, 2019 for stores and the general 'winged hammer' logo to represent both systems).
Seems weird to do it again so soon.
Yeah, the last redesigned logo needs its next renewal in 2031 and is a protected design till then, and that's also the newest design from GW that can be found in the database. The only more recent database enty that contains the word 'Warhammer' is an unrelated trademark for an all-purpose laboratory disinfectant called 'WarHammer' that got registered in January
A new website doesn't necessitate a new logo.
That whole pack of rumours will probably be hard-proven or hard-disproven in about 30 hours, since it also included 'The 5th AoO book is about the Sanguinor'. I personally think that rumour is the result of mixing the 50-page-document before we became aware of it with a handful of made-up stuff and extrapolations from descriptions in the larger doc.
To be fair I'm ok with no Space Hulk considering GW has been working the boarding patrols into the main game which means everyone gets to play not just Terminators and Genestealers
Overread wrote: To be fair I'm ok with no Space Hulk considering GW has been working the boarding patrols into the main game which means everyone gets to play not just Terminators and Genestealers
I don't understand - why would you be ever be playing Space Hulk with stupid Genestealers when you could use the White Dwarf 122 rules for awesome Traitor Terminators?
Why yes, that issue did get me to buy my first GW miniatures ever.
I mean if they've got a new 'Stealer and a new Termy kit, they could kill two birds with one stone and release a limited Space Hulk with the new minis and then release them alongside 10th later on.
Basically make the Hulk box the first place you can get them.
I don't put much stock in GW releasing three new codexes in the 6 months prior to releasing a full reset edition of the game. The last codex (excluding the compilation book Imperial Agents and Codex Supplement Traitor Legions) was 9 months before 8th Edition.
I mean if they've got a new 'Stealer and a new Termy kit, they could kill two birds with one stone and release a limited Space Hulk with the new minis and then release them alongside 10th later on.
Basically make the Hulk box the first place you can get them.
Just think of all the forge world chapter specific shoulder pad, head and upgrade packs that could be sold to fill months of releases ...just in time after they finish doing all the tanks for HH. plastic assault units, we got Sons of Medusa upgrades for your Terminators for you. Then they can release some Fleet Kraken detail kits .
I just hope they don't re-scale them, I've got a jillion terminators already and don't really want to have people calling them stumpy or baby marines or whatever other tedious thing
Billicus wrote: I just hope they don't re-scale them, I've got a jillion terminators already and don't really want to have people calling them stumpy or baby marines or whatever other tedious thing
You're 100% guaranteed to be gak out of luck, even if primaris hadn't happened they'd still be getting taller and better proportioned like the chaos ones have.
Regards space hulk, it'll be my defacto response to literally every hint from now on I think.
Billicus wrote: I just hope they don't re-scale them, I've got a jillion terminators already and don't really want to have people calling them stumpy or baby marines or whatever other tedious thing
They will certainly grow larger, that is a process that can't be stopped:
The question is rather, how will they look proportionally. Will they redesign parts of the armour completly. And last but not least, will it even remotely make sense that there is supposed to be an anatomical human inside the armour, that doesn't have dislocated joints and squished muscles/bones.
alextroy wrote: I don't put much stock in GW releasing three new codexes in the 6 months prior to releasing a full reset edition of the game. The last codex (excluding the compilation book Imperial Agents and Codex Supplement Traitor Legions) was 9 months before 8th Edition.
GW doesn't bat an eye at invalidating books within a few months of release.
alextroy wrote: I don't put much stock in GW releasing three new codexes in the 6 months prior to releasing a full reset edition of the game. The last codex (excluding the compilation book Imperial Agents and Codex Supplement Traitor Legions) was 9 months before 8th Edition.
I recall in 8th GW did something where they bought back books from a certain period. I doubt they'll do that again, but if they change the rules enough and you can't use the codex effectively we should pressure them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: it was 8 weeks from announcement.
Do you notice in the link that they said that they "usually" give the refunds for the 4 weeks prior to the announcement? That says, to me, that it is GW's normal business to print/sell things up to the time of announcing the new edition. Even knowing that the product will not be usable in a very short while.
So yeah, they do put new things out right until the very end of an edition's usability.
JohnnyHell wrote: Is “its Space Hulk” the new “Old World will be 15mm”?
It's the new Fishmen, rending ponies and Squats all rolled into one.
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Billicus wrote: I just hope they don't re-scale them, I've got a jillion terminators already and don't really want to have people calling them stumpy or baby marines or whatever other tedious thing
My old Cadian models are now from a Cadian "Short Kings" regiment.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Do you notice in the link that they said that they "usually" give the refunds for the 4 weeks prior to the announcement? That says, to me, that it is GW's normal business to print/sell things up to the time of announcing the new edition. Even knowing that the product will not be usable in a very short while.
So yeah, they do put new things out right until the very end of an edition's usability.
It is one thing to continue to sell something that is on the shelf right up until you pull them off. It is another thing to release something you know will be useless in a very short period of time. I can't think of a major product like a Codex or an Armybook that they planned-obsolescenced in less than 6 months for a very long time.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Do you notice in the link that they said that they "usually" give the refunds for the 4 weeks prior to the announcement? That says, to me, that it is GW's normal business to print/sell things up to the time of announcing the new edition. Even knowing that the product will not be usable in a very short while.
So yeah, they do put new things out right until the very end of an edition's usability.
For proof the resin Dante and Azael are still up for sale.
They expect you to use the codexes in the new edition, so they absolutely have no problem releasing them right before the edition changes.
The indexes for 8th were an exception, not the rule. 10th edition has to be completely different from the ground up for them to bother doing profile updates for every single army at launch.
It's almost definitely the Lion being revealed at Adepticon - have you seen the latest Warhammer Community teaser? It has a VIDEO OF AN ACTUAL LION ON IT.
Gen.Steiner wrote: It's almost definitely the Lion being revealed at Adepticon - have you seen the latest Warhammer Community teaser? It has a VIDEO OF AN ACTUAL LION ON IT.
Nah they just wanted to get your attention so you're awake for the reveals. They would be lion to you.
Oh boy that all but does confirm it doesn't it? I wonder how many people will switch to dark angels when he's revealed. Seems in my area every new release there's a bunch of people jumping on the bandwagon immediately.
I won't be - not any more than I already am; I need to finish my successor Deathwing force. So far I have two squads out of the five I need... with the rumoured upscaled termis I now have to decide if I want to grab three boxes of the current DW or wait and rebuild in the new ones!
I'm a bit iffy on how much streamlining they're going to do (GW always swings that pendulum like its their last day on earth), but what we've seen is mostly good. Morale not killing you is good. Getting rid of unit-specific strats and just making them inherent special rules is a fething no brainer and always has been.
Expanding the base core stratagems is a good idea, as that's what they should be. I do fear that something like "Smoke Launchers" will suddenly become a core strat. Equipment shouldn't be strats anymore than unit-specific strats.
Actually making use of toughness values above 8 and reducing instances of AP modifications is fantastic. AoC isn't necessary in a world where every pistol, blade and sharp rock has a -1 AP modifier.
I don't care that the psychic phase is gone, but my concern is if psychic powers just become "You have Smite + something else", and Warlord Traits/Relics just become 1-3 per Codex. Those are the fun things, the things that let you customise your characters (especially since Wargear hasn't really been a thing since 7th Ed). I mean yeah, cut down on strats all you like, but if they remove Warlord Traits/Psychic Powers/Relics at an alarming rate then that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
They're not ditching Crusade, which I'm happy about as I figured that'd last an edition and that'd be it.
I'm concerned about faction flavour. Your army rules will be on one page. Ok, how does one fit the daisy-chain Hive Mind stuff on one page along with everything else? 'Cause that's easily the coolest rule in the current 'Nid 'Dex outside of adaptive physiology (which they ruined in an FAQ/"balance" dataslate, but whatever). As always I remain less interested in what we're getting, and more in what we're losing.
'Cause do you think Legend units are going to get an update in 10th?
Actually making use of toughness values above 8 and reducing instances of AP modifications is fantastic. AoC isn't necessary in a world where every pistol, blade and sharp rock has a -1 AP modifier.
Think you mistyped? As surely AOC is neccessary if everything and kitchen sink has -1 AP.
The T removed rumour busted. Ultramarines still seem to be poster boys. Flamer marines confirmed.
I'm concerned about faction flavour. Your army rules will be on one page. Ok, how does one fit the daisy-chain Hive Mind stuff on one page along with everything else? 'Cause that's easily the coolest rule in the current 'Nid 'Dex outside of adaptive physiology (which they ruined in an FAQ/"balance" dataslate, but whatever). As always I remain less interested in what we're getting, and more in what we're losing.
'Cause do you think Legend units are going to get an update in 10th?
Sounds like AOS and factions feel like factions and despite removing stuff(subfactions went from multiple rules to generally 1 plus maybe optional battleline) they feel even more characterful. You don't need pages and pages of rules. One or two good rules does the trick.
I'd have liked a refresh on the Terminator helmet design. It would be nice if the librarian gets a classic psychic hood option, haven't seen that since the rune priest terminator.
10th edition intent / break down (kinda, it's 2 minutes of vague statements).
Things of note:
It looks like nids are indeed "the" bad guy this edition. Super curious to see how the old-style carnifex comes into things. We might be losing the hunched over ones in favor of the bipedal six-limbed ones? That or we may be getting Screamer Killer's as a "new" unit which has a specific model.
Developers say "Your army rules will fit in a single page, your datasheet rules will fit on a single card." Wasn't one of the rumors about units having cards instead of entries or something?
Over-all they seem to be going for "streamlining". Which could be good or bad... Good if we return to USR type stuff and cut down on the phenomenal bloat with tons of books and FAQ's required to play a game. Bad if the already puddle-deep core rules become even shallower.
I was thinking recently while looking through One Page Rules "Wow GW should really get hold of the guy that wrote these". Not sure if they have done that (and probably not), but if they have looked at those rules and tried to capture the spirit of them I think that can only be a good thing.
10th edition intent / break down (kinda, it's 2 minutes of vague statements).
Things of note:
It looks like nids are indeed "the" bad guy this edition. Super curious to see how the old-style carnifex comes into things. We might be losing the hunched over ones in favor of the bipedal six-limbed ones? That or we may be getting Screamer Killer's as a "new" unit which has a specific model.
Developers say "Your army rules will fit in a single page, your datasheet rules will fit on a single card." Wasn't one of the rumors about units having cards instead of entries or something?
Over-all they seem to be going for "streamlining". Which could be good or bad... Good if we return to USR type stuff and cut down on the phenomenal bloat with tons of books and FAQ's required to play a game. Bad if the already puddle-deep core rules become even shallower.
Also just to add..
Core Rules, Army Rules and points free from day one.
I’d assume not, but no word on that continuing once your Codex is out the gate. Would be nice, but assuming not.
I'm curious how they want to balance the Forces in this new Combat patrol mode.
20 something Imperial Guard with some auxialliary support against 20 space marines and a tank/dreadnought?
Does the IG force get endless waves or free orbital bombardment? Same for GSC, not really a fair setup based on current power levels.
I just hope they finally implemented alternating activation and reduce the damage potential on roughly everything. I'm afraid though that they learned the wrong lessons from Kill Team and completely remove war gear points costs. The next week will tell. I'm glad I didn't buy the IG Dex, aged like milk just as the rumours promised.
10th edition intent / break down (kinda, it's 2 minutes of vague statements).
Things of note:
It looks like nids are indeed "the" bad guy this edition. Super curious to see how the old-style carnifex comes into things. We might be losing the hunched over ones in favor of the bipedal six-limbed ones? That or we may be getting Screamer Killer's as a "new" unit which has a specific model.
Developers say "Your army rules will fit in a single page, your datasheet rules will fit on a single card." Wasn't one of the rumors about units having cards instead of entries or something?
Over-all they seem to be going for "streamlining". Which could be good or bad... Good if we return to USR type stuff and cut down on the phenomenal bloat with tons of books and FAQ's required to play a game. Bad if the already puddle-deep core rules become even shallower.
Also just to add..
Core Rules, Army Rules and points free from day one.
I’d assume not, but no word on that continuing once your Codex is out the gate. Would be nice, but assuming not.
It says Codexes replace the free rules when they arrive.
GiToRaZor wrote: I'm curious how they want to balance the Forces in this new Combat patrol mode.
20 something Imperial Guard with some auxialliary support against 20 space marines and a tank/dreadnought?
Does the IG force get endless waves or free orbital bombardment? Same for GSC, not really a fair setup based on current power levels.
I just hope they finally implemented alternating activation and reduce the damage potential on roughly everything. I'm afraid though that they learned the wrong lessons from Kill Team and completely remove war gear points costs. The next week will tell. I'm glad I didn't buy the IG Dex, aged like milk just as the rumours promised.
There is a second datasheet for Termagants that was shown in the actual seminar at adepticon which has different stats/abilities/weapons than the one they showed on stream. Could just be an earlier/later version but could also be specific versions for the combat patrol mode
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Billicus wrote: The real beauty of opr grimdark future is alternating activations, which would be great if 40k adopted but I doubt it
We might not get alternating activations for 10th but based on the ability on the Termagant datasheet there will be more for you to do during your opponents turn
GiToRaZor wrote: I'm curious how they want to balance the Forces in this new Combat patrol mode.
20 something Imperial Guard with some auxialliary support against 20 space marines and a tank/dreadnought?
Does the IG force get endless waves or free orbital bombardment? Same for GSC, not really a fair setup based on current power levels.
I just hope they finally implemented alternating activation and reduce the damage potential on roughly everything. I'm afraid though that they learned the wrong lessons from Kill Team and completely remove war gear points costs. The next week will tell. I'm glad I didn't buy the IG Dex, aged like milk just as the rumours promised.
Why you think next week will reveal it? It will be months of previews.
At least gaunts lost AP so maybe the lethality is going down. Which would be welcome step. Again following AOS.
We might not get alternating activations for 10th but based on the ability on the Termagant datasheet there will be more for you to do during your opponents turn
Also they refered to universal stratagems that give more ways to react on opponent turn.
If there's your turn and opponent turn unlikely to have alternative action.
I welcome all of it, and I hope they can really keep it to free datasheets plus a single page of army rules in the long run. 9th was really unplayable for the casual player. But from the sound of it, you only get core rules for free, so you will definitely need a book for the advanced rules, missions, and stuff.
BUT I don't buy any of that Combat Patrol gunk. Clearly a marketing team invention. Has no synergy with expanding from Kill Team, and I expect that a modern set of wargaming rules allows a rewarding experience on any point level small or big. Hopefully you can easily translate it to 500 pts armies of your own.
You can never translate it down to 500 points without some tweaks, in this case potentially different rules for the units vs the full sized game looking at the two different termagant entries. List tailoring or skews are too hard to avoid.
Core Rules, Army Rules and points free from day one.
I’d assume not, but no word on that continuing once your Codex is out the gate. Would be nice, but assuming not.
If one only plays in a friendly group, why not keep to the day one free stuff?
Kitbash your own rules for new toys.
After all, two likeminded people could still be playing with the 3rd Ed Rulebook and Army lists.
Different subject but, unless Blackstone Fortress and various Kill Team boxes have been a failure from GW's point of view, they must have an appetite for a Lost and the Damned army.
Come on, new Edition, new Army!
Let's have a full fat Renegade Army incorporating the lovely Beastmen, bad Guard and Cultists.
As someone long since out of practice gaming (I think I’ve played maybe one game per edition since..7th? Maybe 6th?) this simplification does appeal.
YMMV of course and I’m not trying to lay down the law. Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Just because something looks neat and tidy, doesn’t mean it’s not a mess underneath. I mean, even I can get suited and booted.
As someone long since out of practice gaming (I think I’ve played maybe one game per edition since..7th? Maybe 6th?) this simplification does appeal.
YMMV of course and I’m not trying to lay down the law. Proof will be in the pudding I guess. Just because something looks neat and tidy, doesn’t mean it’s not a mess underneath. I mean, even I can get suited and booted.
It's starting already, as there are at least two variants of the Termagant card bandying about
While I have nothing against the Lion, I admit I am not so on board with more Primarchs returning, because as special characters they overshadow everyone else (and can't be killed off by GW without causing huge uproar). Take the hyped Lion vs. Angron. We know Angron won't win because he can be defeated and respawn while no loyalist Primarch can truly be killed off since they cannot come back again if truly killed. That robs any conflict of suspense IMO and becomes like those superhero/supervillain versus matches that end up being inconclusive or with the supervillain being defeated but able to always escape.
Also what I don't want to happen is it becomes an auto-win if it is a Primarch vs. any non-Primarch antagonist. Again that means no suspense in any conflict if the Primarch is guaranteed to prevail. What I might find more interesting is if a Primarch lost strategically to a non-Primarch, and how they cope with that blow to their self-esteem (or how their followers cope with their idealized hero being defeated). Even though it is still involving special characters, imagine if Farsight, Eldrad, Yriel, or the Hive Mind outmaneuvered Lion El'jonson or Guilliman, such that they got so involved in winning one particular battle or campaign, they lose on the wider front. Would followers drift away or denounce their Primarch as being weakened and now unworthy?
I surprisingly found Guilliman less bad than I had first feared when he returned, as he provided a sole voice of contrast against the 40K Imperium. His anguished loneliness was kind of the point IMO. I don't want 40K to turn into Primarch drama show like 30K.
Really feel for the Guard and WE players who wasted circa fifty quid on books and cards. That’s a proper gakky move to invalidate them like that after just a couple of months use.
Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
Yeah, that was cool! It looked like the combi-weapons were all on Veterans, but near the end I saw one combi-flamer and the guy holding it had a Heavy Support badge, so maybe they can have them too(?). Either way, I am excited for updated veterans and hopefully they finish blending the Primaris and Firstborn so we can start seeing options again.
My socks are blown off by all the rumours being true.
A bit funny that 8th edition was touted as the ultimate ruleset that won't need further changes and here we are, 6 years later, the game is bungled to the point it needs another full rewrite with all books invalidated etc.
I sincerely hope they manage this time, but 10th is still being written by the same people who fethed up 9th, so *shrug*
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
I'm excited for another edition and tweaks to the game I've enjoyed for over 30 years.
I am excited to see the classic Terminator updated and not completely redesigned. I've really enjoyed the quality of new Marine sculpts and how well they paint up.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
I think I also clocked a Combi-melta?
Yeah, and it looked like a Primaris Veteran holding it. So maybe new Sternguard.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
If it's kit in starter set it's new sculpt rather than upgrade sprue.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Just wanted to point out that the Primaris Vanguard Marine in the cinematic looks to be armed with some sort of combi-flamer (maybe the auto-flamer introduced in the Templars book?), so we're probably either getting a new upgrade frame or an entirely new Vanguard unit
EDIT: Not to mention the entire squad armed with pyreblasters/flamers or the Primaris Dread with Twin-Las/Missiles
I think I also clocked a Combi-melta?
Good catch! I wasn't sure if it was just one of the fancy meltas they already have from the earlier shots in the trailer, but you can definitely see the bolter part toward the end. I totally missed that.
Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!
You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.
Hmmmm.
People already unhappy with the flexibility of the Arks of Omen Detachment aren't gonna be happy.
Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!
You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.
Hmmmm.
People already unhappy with the flexibility of the Arks of Omen Detachment aren't gonna be happy.
Depends on what a unit Type is. I would not assume they mean copies of the same unit entry. If Heavy Support is essentially a type, it's still the same system as before. Especially since they say Battleline type allows for 6 copies.
Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!
You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.
Hmmmm.
People already unhappy with the flexibility of the Arks of Omen Detachment aren't gonna be happy.
I have a feeling they will have FOCs for competitive play, to ensure a bit more balance. They will probably get released as part of a tournament pack or sum such
Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!
You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.
Hmmmm.
People already unhappy with the flexibility of the Arks of Omen Detachment aren't gonna be happy.
I have a feeling they will have FOCs for competitive play, to ensure a bit more balance. They will probably get released as part of a tournament pack or sum such
Don't forget the rumour of fixed unit loadouts etc for comp play in a few batches.
Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!
You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.
Hmmmm.
People already unhappy with the flexibility of the Arks of Omen Detachment aren't gonna be happy.
Depends on what a unit Type is. I would not assume they mean copies of the same unit entry. If Heavy Support is essentially a type, it's still the same system as before. Especially since they say Battleline type allows for 6 copies.
The footnote specifies it excludes units with "Battleline", so fairly certain they mean unit entry ala Rule of 3 and not a battlefield role, especially since they specifically call out being able to field Space Marine Companies, which traditionally fielded 6 Tactical Squads.
A bit funny that 8th edition was touted as the ultimate ruleset that won't need further changes and here we are, 6 years later, the game is bungled to the point it needs another full rewrite with all books invalidated etc.
I sincerely hope they manage this time, but 10th is still being written by the same people who fethed up 9th, so *shrug*
All the rumours aren’t true though. At one point the starter set was touted to be Dante, blood angels and jump packs. It’s looking like Ultramarines veterans going by the videos.
We were also told that toughness was going, but there it is bold as brass on the teases datasheets.
im guessing they might go with something like AOS, where specific Lord character grant BATTLELINE to certain linked units (ie, a gravis captain might grant BATTLELINE to heavy intercessors, or a Phobos captain might grant it to infiltraitors, etc)
either that, or one of the keywords it does have (Like ENDLESS MULITIDUE, or GREAT DEVOURER) have BATTLELINE attached to it as a army rule (same as they use ANGELS OF DEATH on current marines to cover know no fear, bolter discipline, etc)
plastic assault units, we got Sons of Medusa upgrades for your Terminators for you. Then they can release some Fleet Kraken detail kits 
.
