I think you should go with a plain white or tan box with a big sticker, even for retail. You'll save cash that way and also it's quick and easy. You don't need a big & flashy full color box for these, and in fact a corrugated kind of box would offer better protection too. Just order em from uline.com
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I'm surprised so many people are so petulant about this. MisterJustin has been very open throughout the entire campaign.
I agree. We all knew that SWM wasn't doing the milling and injection molding in house. We all knew it was WGF for quite a while. And no amount of money can prevent a company from over promising or underestimating their ability to deliver. Such is the risk of using 3rd party manufacturing. It's likely one reason GW does all theirs in house(among many other reasons of course).
Justin didn't run off with everyone's money. These setbacks are far more of a headache for him than they will ever be for us.
This is a product that most of us I imagine will have the rest of our lives or at least until we stop gaming. As such, I'm fine waiting a little longer to get it since I know I'll use it for many years to come.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I'm surprised so many people are so petulant about this. MisterJustin has been very open throughout the entire campaign.
I think its because it's an actually new product, not simply more models. Meaning, people pledged this because they saw a need that nothing else on the market (realm of battle boards aside) really filled.
I think the problem is that it's been over a year since the kickstarter ended. Patience is one thing, but when it's been over a year, and nearly a year since the projected delivery, I think impatience isn't totally out of line.
Now, there's no need to be nasty. Nohting can be done, but it always sucks to have your cash tied up for 18 months.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I'm surprised so many people are so petulant about this. MisterJustin has been very open throughout the entire campaign.
I think its because it's an actually new product,
Until you do something like this, it's hard to wrap your head around just how many things can go wrong, and how much is obvious in hindsight, but inexperience means you never saw it coming. A customer I was working with was bringing a new product to market, and had very specialized packaging needs, and this was a big company and a big project that already had a couple tens of millions of USD sunk into production. They thought they had the packaging thing all wrapped up, until abruptly they were told the volumes they were requesting were too much for the packaging company to handle, which ending up screwing everything up about getting it out the door by three months.
There's book knowledge of how everything is expected to work, and what might go wrong, and then the actual boots on the ground, direct experience of a process. The former never completely prepares you for the latter.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I'm surprised so many people are so petulant about this. MisterJustin has been very open throughout the entire campaign.
I think its because it's an actually new product,
Until you do something like this, it's hard to wrap your head around just how many things can go wrong, and how much is obvious in hindsight, but inexperience means you never saw it coming. A customer I was working with was bringing a new product to market, and had very specialized packaging needs, and this was a big company and a big project that already had a couple tens of millions of USD sunk into production. They thought they had the packaging thing all wrapped up, until abruptly they were told the volumes they were requesting were too much for the packaging company to handle, which ending up screwing everything up about getting it out the door by three months.
There's book knowledge of how everything is expected to work, and what might go wrong, and then the actual boots on the ground, direct experience of a process. The former never completely prepares you for the latter.
That's why its understandable that its late. that has nothing to do with people being annoyed that it's late.
When you're hungry, how interested in you in hearing from the kichen how many things went wrong?
The lesson I've learned is to support those companies that have tightly put together proposition that don't offer open ended stretch goals.
Rather than keep adding new potential products/goals to a Kickstarter - here new themes - I'd rather companies focus on delivering the initial offering on time.
Once they have proof of delivery come back to the market with expansions/new themes.
I'm not trying to give Secret Weapon a hard time. Justin's a great guy, and they put out a top notch product. I had backed this kickstarter until a few life changes, coupled with the low savings compared to RRP, caused me to bail.
Kickstarters like this are a reminder of what crowdfunding is really about: pooling money to make something possible. It's a slow, painful process, but somehting new existst that wouldn't otherwise. Too many of us have been suckling at the teat of giveaway kickstarters.
This isn't directed at you, Polonius, but rather a trend I am seeing in this thread and other delayed Kickstarter threads.
Polonius wrote: I'm not trying to give Secret Weapon a hard time. Justin's a great guy, and they put out a top notch product. I had backed this kickstarter until a few life changes, coupled with the low savings compared to RRP, caused me to bail.
It is really aggravating that you feel the need to even state this, or that others might misinterpret your acknowledgement of backers' frustration as giving Justin or SWM a hard time. I have been vocal in this thread about my disappointment in how this Kickstarter has developed. Knowing how much of a financial burden the set backs are causing SWM, and Justin personally, has caused me to back off my public outrage, but this whole process with WGF, and the other companies in China who have thrown wrenches into the operation, is bs.
It has killed any interest in backing future projects that are working with WGF, and if/when SWM does another Tablescapes KS I won't be a part of it if the same vendors are in the manufacturing chain. Balls have been dropped, deadlines have been missed, and yet, backers are supposed to just sit around and hold hands and bask in the magical glow of crowdfunding? bs. We are allowed to be disappointed, and we should be allowed to vent that frustration online without some ridiculous finger wagging and shaming by a minority of backers who either don't care, are too burdened with other WIP projects to notice the delay, or offer some other contrived reasons for why the rest of us are being ridiculous, "petulant" whiners.
Mr. Justin is the face of his company. That is a double-edged sword since he gets the accolades for his company's successes and he gets to eat crow and deal with turd storms when things go wrong. I think considering the situation people have been reasonable. No one here is calling for Mr. Justin's head on a stick. Most of us understand the situation, but the situation sucks and people should be allowed to say as much without a choir of passive aggressive attacks leveled at them.
Balls have been dropped, deadlines have been missed, and yet, backers are supposed to just sit around and hold hands and bask in the magical glow of crowdfunding? bs. We are allowed to be disappointed, and we should be allowed to vent that frustration online without some ridiculous finger wagging and shaming by a minority of backers who either don't care, are too burdened with other WIP projects to notice the delay, or offer some other contrived reasons for why the rest of us are being ridiculous, "petulant" whiners.
I think, at some point, when a kickstarter is delayed, you have the same right to complain as a person with a crappy car has when it finally breaks down for good. It sucks, and it can really be a pain in the ass, but it's not like it was outside of the realm of possiblity.
At some point, when you back a kickstarter, you're saying, "sure, I'm going to give money to a smaller company, that's going to have a chinese company produce a product, and then ship it to me. Oh, and I don't know exactly what I'm getting yet." It's a self evidently ludicrous thing to actually expect these to be on time. That they deliver at all is a minor miracle.
Polonius wrote: I think, at some point, when a kickstarter is delayed, you have the same right to complain as a person with a crappy car has when it finally breaks down for good. It sucks, and it can really be a pain in the ass, but it's not like it was outside of the realm of possiblity.
Wait, what? What about the kitchen analogy you gave a few posts up? Are you suggesting that once a backer hands over money to a KS project they relinquish all rights to complain when hiccups occur? And I don't mean minor hiccups like "Oh, we missed our June deadline but are shipping in August" but major hiccups like "Hey guise! Our box maker just said 'nope' to our order so things are on hold again!"- well over a year after the campaign ended?
Polonius wrote: That they deliver at all is a minor miracle.
I disagree with this so much it hurts. Most backers aren't playing roulette or the Lotto and gambling that we will get our product. Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for. Sure, delays happen. But this box delay has happened more than once with this Kickstarter and that is ridiculous, so people are rightly miffed. Suggesting that all Kickstarters are a futile hope against inevitable failure is a little odd.
Polonius wrote: I think, at some point, when a kickstarter is delayed, you have the same right to complain as a person with a crappy car has when it finally breaks down for good. It sucks, and it can really be a pain in the ass, but it's not like it was outside of the realm of possiblity.
Wait, what? What about the kitchen analogy you gave a few posts up? Are you suggesting that once a backer hands over money to a KS project they relinquish all rights to complain when hiccups occur? And I don't mean minor hiccups like "Oh, we missed our June deadline but are shipping in August" but major hiccups like "Hey guise! Our box maker just said 'nope' to our order so things are on hold again!"- well over a year after the campaign ended?
Not only did I not say that, I actually said the opposite in the very thing you posted. Everybody has a right to complain about whatever they want.
What I'm saying is that there's a upper limit to the sympathy you can expect. It's a couple hundred bucks, its hobby related, and it's notoriously common. Beyond a "yeah, that sucks, bro" I don't think you can expect much.
Polonius wrote: That they deliver at all is a minor miracle.
I disagree with this so much it hurts. Most backers aren't playing roulette or the Lotto and gambling that we will get our product. Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for. Sure, delays happen. But this box delay has happened more than once with this Kickstarter and that is ridiculous, so people are rightly miffed. Suggesting that all Kickstarters are a futile hope against inevitable failure is a little odd.
Maybe miracle was the wrong word. I would say mildly surprising.
What's worrying is that you say " Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for. " A company can't vet itself. that's the job of the consumer. Kickstarters are not a simple transaction.
Polonius wrote: I think, at some point, when a kickstarter is delayed, you have the same right to complain as a person with a What I'm saying is that there's a upper limit to the sympathy you can expect. It's a couple hundred bucks, its hobby related, and it's notoriously common. Beyond a "yeah, that sucks, bro" I don't think you can expect much.
Not having a legitimate complaint brushed aside as petulant behavior is what I am expecting.
Polonius wrote: What's worrying is that you say " Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for. " A company can't vet itself. that's the job of the consumer. Kickstarters are not a simple transaction.
That is vague phrasing on my part. Kickstarter campaign creators should have already vetted the companies they will be using in their campaigns so that they do not run into problems campaigns are currently having with WGF, or SWM with this box company, or like Torn Armor had with Defiance. Obviously a company can't vet itself, but if can vet its suppliers.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh look. Another Kickstarter is late. Also, water is wet and the Pope is Catholic.
Uh, no. It was late last year. This is "it ships next week" turning into "it would hjave shipped last week but now we have no boxes and we don't know what we're going to do". Which is slightly different.
You should see the Raging Heroes thread. It makes this one look like a bunch of hippies singing around a camp fire.
Behold the power of boobs.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Most backers aren't playing roulette or the Lotto and gambling that we will get our product. Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for.
If that were the case, they wouldn't need Kickstarter, they could just go to the bank and get a business loan, because they've got all the documentation lined up to a T. As mentioned upthread, a lot of these are hindsight mistakes, because really, who'd think that getting boxes was so hard? Until they've actually been through the process of arranging for thousands of cardboard shippers, and had the vendor they thought was on the ball suddenly say, 'oh sorry, can't do it after all.'
Someone upthread mentioned U-line. Probably a joke, but in case they were serious... ordering a flat of 25 boxes for your small office use? Easy. Getting them to China? If you've never dealt with the world of Commercial Invoices, Packing Lists, and HTS codes, it's suddenly a lot harder.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Most backers aren't playing roulette or the Lotto and gambling that we will get our product. Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for.
If that were the case, they wouldn't need Kickstarter, they could just go to the bank and get a business loan, because they've got all the documentation lined up to a T. As mentioned upthread, a lot of these are hindsight mistakes, because really, who'd think that getting boxes was so hard? Until they've actually been through the process of arranging for thousands of cardboard shippers, and had the vendor they thought was on the ball suddenly say, 'oh sorry, can't do it after all.'
That was in response to Polonius stating that Kickstarters delivering anything at all were miracles. I contended that most backers don't see it in that light and instead seek out projects that they have faith will deliver, and he even admitted that "miracle" was the wrong word to use. That faith on the backer's part is largely from reassurances given by the project creator during the campaign.
So, let's look at this Kickstarter's Risks and Challenges blurb:
We've done our best to minimize this as far as possible, and we are always happy to refund pledges if for some totally unforeseen reason the product can't be delivered at all.
In this case we've already absorbed the cost of the side-core mother mold, and the first proof of concept tile, and have completed the CAD files for the first full set of 16 "Scrap Yard" tiles -- and we see the risks as minimal at this point.
The biggest challenge is in the delivery time for additional themes resulting in possible stretch goals. We already have concept art for several options, however, and 3D artists standing by to help us turn those into reality.
We are also working with an established factory that has produced, and delivered, on multiple projects for the gaming industry, including several launched via Kickstarter. They are standing by and have dedicated tooling time for the project.
That bold part is what I think most backers look for as reassurance that the project creator has done their homework. When major hiccups occur, like not having boxes suddenly when you are ready to ship, it casts doubt on the project creator's ability to marshal the right vendors for their project. Granted that blurb is directly related to WGF and not about the box maker, and perhaps us backers were naive for not asking, "Okay, but what about the boxes? What about the tape? Have you sourced everything needed to make this project a reality?" but I think you could also make an argument that SWM's assurances in the Risks and Challenges statement imply that all facets of the production process have been looked at and scrutinized and things were ready to go. And if they weren't WGF is there to assist, since they are familiar with this type of product development. They clearly weren't and we know why now, but it doesn't change the fact that some of us feel a little angry that such a major component of the fulfillment process went to hell at the last minute.
You should see the Raging Heroes thread. It makes this one look like a bunch of hippies singing around a camp fire.
Behold the power of boobs.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Most backers aren't playing roulette or the Lotto and gambling that we will get our product. Most backers are backing projects that supposedly have been researched, the vendors vetted, business plans are in place, and the target goals seem reasonable because we are told that the logistics are understood and accounted for.
If that were the case, they wouldn't need Kickstarter, they could just go to the bank and get a business loan, because they've got all the documentation lined up to a T. As mentioned upthread, a lot of these are hindsight mistakes, because really, who'd think that getting boxes was so hard? Until they've actually been through the process of arranging for thousands of cardboard shippers, and had the vendor they thought was on the ball suddenly say, 'oh sorry, can't do it after all.'
Someone upthread mentioned U-line. Probably a joke, but in case they were serious... ordering a flat of 25 boxes for your small office use? Easy. Getting them to China? If you've never dealt with the world of Commercial Invoices, Packing Lists, and HTS codes, it's suddenly a lot harder.
They wouldn't though would they? Look at Mantic. They have made literally fething millions of dollars, but still they keep coming. I backed their KOW one years ago, what did that pull in, 3 million?
And still they keep coming, again and again and again. KS is clearly preferable to bank loans to all kinds of people and businesses.
I agree with DT, I don't think the detractors have been particulary rude or anything either, I think their annoyance is entirely fair and reasonable.
Hey, he's off by a decimal place. It's Kickstarter
(Note, this is responding to Cyporiean, nothing to do with SW!)
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic, no one is saying the complaints aren't valid (or no one reasonable). But, they told us about it and are working on it. I can only be so upset... the other option to WGF was to not get Tablescapes done at all, as I can't imagine any other producer being able to pull it off.
In the end, I just want my board, and I'll be happy as I'm sure Secret Weapon will be! There does come a point where a long enough delay makes the product no longer useful to me, but this is not there yet (or even close really) in my case.
Until you do something like this, it's hard to wrap your head around just how many things can go wrong, and how much is obvious in hindsight, but inexperience means you never saw it coming. A customer I was working with was bringing a new product to market, and had very specialized packaging needs, and this was a big company and a big project that already had a couple tens of millions of USD sunk into production. They thought they had the packaging thing all wrapped up, until abruptly they were told the volumes they were requesting were too much for the packaging company to handle, which ending up screwing everything up about getting it out the door by three months.
There's book knowledge of how everything is expected to work, and what might go wrong, and then the actual boots on the ground, direct experience of a process. The former never completely prepares you for the latter.
Well said and absolutely correct. There's a perspective from both sides of the fence. and poo-poohing either side's concerns or reasons isn't super useful. Hopefully SWM and WGF use this experience to make sure things like times and quantities etc are locked down well in advance in future.
It has killed any interest in backing future projects that are working with WGF, and if/when SWM does another Tablescapes KS I won't be a part of it if the same vendors are in the manufacturing chain. Balls have been dropped, deadlines have been missed, and yet, backers are supposed to just sit around and hold hands and bask in the magical glow of crowdfunding? bs. We are allowed to be disappointed, and we should be allowed to vent that frustration online without some ridiculous finger wagging and shaming by a minority of backers who either don't care, are too burdened with other WIP projects to notice the delay, or offer some other contrived reasons for why the rest of us are being ridiculous, "petulant" whiners.
Also very well put (including the snipped parts). A very reasonable look at the other side of the coin. And literally, those who supply the coin. What gets my goat in this campaign and others (RH, etc) aren't so much the delays, but those who come in to belittle the people who are disappointed at setbacks and delays and elements of campaigns that are poorly run or organised. Calling someone "petulant" for expressing disappointment at a new delay announced after the "this is the final delay - for reals, yo!" in a campaign approaching a year out and 8+ months overdue with the excuse "because kickstarter" is using poor reasoning at best, and, well, a few other things I won't say on Dakka at worst.
RiTides wrote: Hey, he's off by a decimal place. It's Kickstarter
(Note, this is responding to Cyporiean, nothing to do with SW!)
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic, no one is saying the complaints aren't valid (or no one reasonable). But, they told us about it and are working on it. I can only be so upset... the other option to WGF was to not get Tablescapes done at all, as I can't imagine any other producer being able to pull it off.
In the end, I just want my board, and I'll be happy as I'm sure Secret Weapon will be! There does come a point where a long enough delay makes the product no longer useful to me, but this is not there yet (or even close really) in my case.
Yeah thats fair do's but as I said, I don't think DT or anyone else has been particularly vitriolic anyway.
On Indiegogo I backed Pirate Goblins, and they were over a year late. I also backed Felix fething whats his names dwarf thing, and I don't even know how late that is now.
Anyway, that did it for me, I haven't backed a KS or anything similar for about two years.
If that were the case, they wouldn't need Kickstarter, they could just go to the bank and get a business loan, because they've got all the documentation lined up to a T. As mentioned upthread, a lot of these are hindsight mistakes, because really, who'd think that getting boxes was so hard? Until they've actually been through the process of arranging for thousands of cardboard shippers, and had the vendor they thought was on the ball suddenly say, 'oh sorry, can't do it after all.'
Kickstarter is essentially interest-free with money given upfront and the ability to use stock at a much higher price than manufacturing cost to pay back that loan - usually above what would be wholesale. And no need to regular payments back to the bank. It's apparently also completely cool to deliver 6 months or a year or more late, and you also get a free army of apologists with each campaign. That has a powerful appeal when compared to taking an actual business loan where you really need your Ts and I's sorted out.
It also has the side luxury of not really having to deliver on everything you promised, a bit too often. Especially when campaigns run incredibly late and backers are just happy to get most of what was promised. Remember the spacers from this campaign for board storage and protection? I doubt they will be sent out post-campaign to backers (and you know, I actually would have used them, too). Nice collector's box from the Pirate Goblins? Fiction book from Sedition Wars? I'm sure there are quite a few more that escape me while I'm sitting here....
Whoa, I walk away for a bit and this turns into a philosophical debate over the unique challenges presented by using Kickstarter to launch a product. WOW!
A lot of good things have been said here, but I want to clarify a couple of points:
1) WGF is not responsible for all of the delays. Remember the first test shot, with a bad import process that gave us that wacky topography? Yeah, that was my fault.
2) This campaign is going to deliver. The product is finished and we just need a way to box it up so we can ship it out to you.
3) We need boxes in order to ship the product to you. That's not a hard thing to understand. Yes, some of you will be happy with a plain cardboard box -- and that's one of the options we're considering now. We're solving this problem. But the product MUST be in boxes by SKU.
This latest hurdle came as a surprise to me and WGF together. Everyone thought this was a done deal, and the product was bound for the ships this week.
A lot has gone into this project, and while I've shared highlights from some of the challenges I certainly haven't shared everything. I could fill a novella with everything we've learned (WGF included) but most of that is a litany of little annoyances that have led to big headaches. There are plenty of issues I also don't care to share, because it doesn't do any good to go whining about the process. We've worked it out, and we've produced an incredible product.
In the end WGF has produced 57 AMAZING tools for me. Those tools are GIGANTIC too, and took days to tool. Each. They've had to buy new equipment to make that happen (that was a surprise), including new computers because the files were far more detailed (and hefty) than they expected. Yes, they have dropped the ball on a few things, and so have I (see 1, above), but in ONE YEAR we've brought not one, but FOUR incredibly detailed, modular, injection-molded plastic themed tables from concept sketches to reality.
Every time I've posted a photo of the finished product people have expressed amazement -- even detractors of any particular theme. This product is amazing. Note that I didn't say "it's going to be," because it is. Now.
We just need to finish working out how to get it to you.
With everything we've overcome in the past 14 months, this is going to be a piece of cake. Or pie, actually. I prefer pie. Maybe cheesecake?
Debates over how Kickstarter campaigns should work aside, everyone involved in this project has my thanks for their support, and/or enthusiasm/patience as appropriate. None of this went according to plan, but the product is amazing. Far better than I had ever imagined, honestly. We just have to wait a bit longer. I'm not happy with that either, but it will all work out in the end.
EDIT: I am, of course, already talking to WGF about future themes. Yes, I will absolutely work with WGF in the future. Challenges or not, I haven't seen a company deliver quality and detail like they can. Period. But, yes, we will absolutely do things differently in the future -- Kickstarter or not.
Not in on this - but in on lots of Kickstarters...
It sucks when a KS fails to deliver, or underdelivers or delivers late...but it is still effectively venture capital into relatively risky start ups. There is a fair chance that you get nothing at all - and although that sucks, it is something that is possible when dealing with those sorts of things.
So far I think I am fairly well ahead of things in terms of my ROI in Kickstarters. There have been plenty of hickups, some flops - but in the end, it isn't too bad.
Not saying that you shouldn't complain or provide your opinion, but to compare it to something that is more of a "sure thing" like a preorder is a bit inaccurate. That does probably apply to more established companies (Reaper for example) - but when a small company effectively quadruples in size over the course of a month...it can be enough to cause it to implode even with the best laid plans.
While I like the boards, the constant delays make me very hesitant to ever ever ever back a SWT KS2. I know it'll deliver in the end (probably) but man, who knows when that end will come. Like someone said earlier in this thread, it seems like everything that can go wrong in this KS has gone wrong. And then some. eg. boxes. Again.
bbb wrote: Mister Justin is just lucky that funding for his kickstarter didn't reach high enough to unlock the "Fields of Boobs" themed Tablescape board.
Maybe he can make a special themed board for Kingdom Death?
I'm pretty eager to get these. For all I'm concerned, they could arrive in a bankers box sealed with scotch tape with my address written on it in sharpie.
(yeah, I know that's not how you guys want to do this, and I understand/respect that, but I'm just sayin' )
I wouldn't say I'm mad about the situation. A little frustrated maybe, but there's plenty of that going around. Tthe production of a new product is seldom as easy a process as it seems upfront. I'm moving in November, so if you can get it to me by then, I'll be happy enough.
Agreed daedalus... now that I've had time to get over the initial frustration, I'm not upset about it. But... I am expecting a good update this week with how the situation will finally be resolved!
I can now confirm that we have a box solution that will work, is printable, and allows us to keep the fancy boxes without slowing anything down (any further) at this point.
It's not an elegant solution, but it's going to work -- with many thanks to the team at WGF, and designer Tom V. who is really saving our bacon by working overtime to get the new designs finished.
We're waiting on the printing factory to confirm our spot in the queue, but we should be looking at about 20 days to get everything printed -- and WGF has made the packing a top priority, if for no other reason than they desperately need my giant pile of plastic out of their warehouse.
I'm heading out on a holiday I schedule back when this was all supposed to be settled, but I'll be checking in while I'm away, and since the art was approved on the original boxes there shouldn't be any surprises. But my son needs to meet his great-grandmother, and we're off to do that.
While I'm in Connecticut I will also be teaching a series of mini-workshops at The Battle Standard, because I'll take any excuse to meet new people and spend a day dorking out with them. If you're in the region please stop by and say hi, even if you can't stay for the classes.
Well there goes my plan to paint them in August. What are we looking at then September shipping perhaps (after boxes are printed and are shipped out by boat). They'll have to wiat until Christmas for painting now :(
Woot! And in my comment about the last update, this was all I meant- if you could figure it out in a few days, it made sense to avoid the backer wrath and just do that .
Well there goes my plan to paint them in August. What are we looking at then September shipping perhaps (after boxes are printed and are shipped out by boat). They'll have to wiat until Christmas for painting now :(
Yep, that's one of the most disappointing/annoying things. I only get a small window every so often where it's actually feasable to paint things like this.
I'm glad the boxes have sorted themselves out, personally im not going to start guessing on possible shipping dates till a package arrives at my door as I'm still expecting some sort of "You sunk my battleship" update similar to the one we spun a few pages back. Tiles captured by pirates also still seems to be on the table
Im looking forward to getting my deadzone tiles (which I assume are with mantic)
I hadn't really noticed the delay being that long, tho I do back a fair few ks and tend to get a fairly regular flow of stuff through the door.
Id definitely back a 2nd ks, in fact I would have loved to added on to this one for a 4x4 board. I'm still hoping for a swamp board at some point in the future.
ironicsilence wrote: I'm glad the boxes have sorted themselves out, personally im not going to start guessing on possible shipping dates till a package arrives at my door as I'm still expecting some sort of "You sunk my battleship" update similar to the one we spun a few pages back. Tiles captured by pirates also still seems to be on the table
Safest to just expect them either by Christmas, or after Chinese New Year at this point.
Jun 27 2014 We have a solution on the box issue! 17 comments 13 likes
I can now confirm that we have a box solution that will work, is printable, and allows us to keep the fancy boxes without slowing anything down (any further) at this point.
It's not an elegant solution, but it's going to work -- with many thanks to the team at WGF, and designer Tom V. who is really saving our bacon by working overtime to get the new designs finished.
We're waiting on the printing factory to confirm our spot in the queue, but we should be looking at about 20 days to get everything printed -- and WGF has made the packing a top priority, if for no other reason than they desperately need my giant pile of plastic out of their warehouse.
I'm heading out on a holiday I schedule back when this was all supposed to be settled, but I'll be checking in while I'm away, and since the art was approved on the original boxes there shouldn't be any surprises. But my son needs to meet his great-grandmother, and we're off to do that.
While I'm in Connecticut I will also be teaching a series of mini-workshops at The Battle Standard, because I'll take any excuse to meet new people and spend a day dorking out with them. If you're in the region please stop by and say hi, even if you can't stay for the classes.
I think he means the surrounding frame? - they are only supplied with the 4 tile display sets for now, I'd imagine they will be boxed with the display sets but misterjustin would have to confirm that.
Yeah, the frames obviously. I remember hearing that they wouldn't be ready in time for the primary shipment. You could add on just the frame on the Kickstarter and I did that.
I'm back from holiday and scrambling to catch up with two weeks of work, but I wanted to take the time to let you know that I've heard from the factory, and...
The boxes are at the printer, things are moving through the queue, and they should be packing things up (or finished) at the end of the month. I still need to wait on the freight information, as they won't be able to schedule that until we're sure how many containers I'm going to need.
Address Updates
I'm still getting emails or messages every day asking me to update, change, or confirm a shipping address. If you're looking to confirm your address please log in to backerkit.com and do so there. We will be pulling from that data to do our shipping, so if it's not correct there, then it's not going to be correct when we ship.
I will leave the BackerKit addresses unlocked until the containers actually arrive in their respective countries. You will have a couple of weeks to finalize your address if you need to.
Argh man, it is a race between this and the Games & Gears tiles I have coming... I keep flip flopping between which I think will arrive first! And both are coming much later than I had expected.
And once again WGF's tardiness feths over those who contracted them to create something.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Realm-of-Battle-Sector-Imperialis Now, I'm not in the market for a GW battle board, nor am I likely to be. Same deal with many/most of us in this thread, but if you think that this GW release isn't going to take a gakload of potential sales away from SWM's boards, you're sadly mistaken. The GW one comes with a nice transport bag, as well.
To be fair, the GW city board looks like complete turd.
Don't get me wrong, I still love a lot of their stuff, despite the price. But that thing is pretty terrible. Skull pits, super stupid road design, typical forced 'gothic' look. Add to the the usual battle damage GW throws on its urban terrain.
If you're after a nice, generic city table that you can throw a variety of city terrain on and not have either the table or buildings look out of place, you're not going to go with GW's offering.
-Loki- wrote: To be fair, the GW city board looks like complete turd.
Don't get me wrong, I still love a lot of their stuff, despite the price. But that thing is pretty terrible. Skull pits, super stupid road design, typical forced 'gothic' look. Add to the the usual battle damage GW throws on its urban terrain.
If you're after a nice, generic city table that you can throw a variety of city terrain on and not have either the table or buildings look out of place, you're not going to go with GW's offering.
As I said, I'm not in the market for a GW board, and I agree it looks like crap. My point is that a lot of 40k player people will still buy it for an urban tablescape, and those same people are not then likely to be buying a SWM board as well, because they will then have their urban board. I dunno. I half wonder if the GW board isn't at least partly a reaction to the SWM (and G&G) boards that went up on KS over a year ago. We know that GW reacts to things in the market, especially after Chapterhouse, and these KS both started quite some time ago now - time enough for GW to have started and brought their (baroque and gaudy) version to market before the competition...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SlaveToDorkness wrote: Luckily, I'm using my tablescape stuff for Infinity and have no use for more Grimderp terrain.
Yeah, mine will work just fine for 40k, since I don't subscribe to the skull-encrusted skulls and eagles with dick-cannon look of the game these days. I also plan to use mine for Bolt Action and any/everything thing else between 1800-2100.
Azazelx wrote: I half wonder if the GW board isn't at least partly a reaction to the SWM (and G&G) boards that went up on KS over a year ago. We know that GW reacts to things in the market, especially after Chapterhouse, and these KS both started quite some time ago now - time enough for GW to have started and brought their (baroque and gaudy) version to market before the competition...
That certainly seems possible. It could even explain why there are only two tiles offered in the new set if GW rushed the design stage and wanted to reduce tooling needs and all the other costs and concerns involved with manufacturing tiles of the size and complexity as the new hive city board.
It wasn't that long ago that GW's RoB was really the only plastic board on the market. Soon there will be at least two other competitors with (multiple) boards for sale, not to mention the increasing quality of gaming mats from companies like Table War/Frontline Gaming and Gamemat.eu, all of which could have lit a fire under GW's behind to offer something more than their initial RoB tiles.
Or maybe this is all an unfortunate coincidence and we are all jumping at shadows. We are talking about GW here, so who knows what the hell they are really up to.
-Loki- wrote: Don't get me wrong, I still love a lot of their stuff, despite the price. But that thing is pretty terrible. Skull pits, super stupid road design, typical forced 'gothic' look. Add to the the usual battle damage GW throws on its urban terrain.
Not to mention only two designs. I'll take the far more modular multi-design Tablescape stuff over GW's gaudy nonsense.
We don't know what Justin's RRP for a 6x4 will end up being. $190 at KS prices (usually far cheaper then RRP). And it's a 4x4 with half of another 4x4 chosen randomly.
Do people in the US manage to get huge products like the ROB at 30% off? That would make it available for $220 (and it comes with a bag). How much will DGS have them for?
This has the potential to take a good chunk out of Justin's lunch.
On the other hand, the people who are most likely to buy GW's RoB product, are also more likely to not even know about SWM's product, so it may not even be that big of an impact on SWM's sales.
Being aware if both products, even if it it works out more expensive I will be falling back on a SW boards as they are a lot more flexible when it comes to fitting varying scifi settings as I don't limit myself to just 40K.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Being aware if both products, even if it it works out more expensive I will be falling back on a SW boards as they are a lot more flexible when it comes to fitting varying scifi settings as I don't limit myself to just 40K.
They're more flexible simply because each SW product contains more than just two tile types.
Tannhauser42 wrote: On the other hand, the people who are most likely to buy GW's RoB product, are also more likely to not even know about SWM's product, so it may not even be that big of an impact on SWM's sales.
This might lean true for some online sales, but B&M stores who might potentially stock both are more likely to have customers buy the one that's available now, which can then have an effect later on. Of course, you can't measure lost sales due to a product being late to market, but I think it will have an effect. The SWM tiles look better, and are far more versatile, but there are a lot of 40k players out there who might have bought these who I'm sure will just buy the official one instead.
Tis all for different purposes. I have the 16 unique urban tiles (8 clean, 8 damaged) for Deadzone as I want the increased detail for Skirmish which is I think where their offer shines.
For the 6x4 board I have the Games and gears as the less detailed surface is I think better for lots of toys to play on. Upset they didn't hit the 6th unique design which was their last stretch goal :( . Maybe end up selling it to fund an expansion to the tablescapes board.
Tannhauser42 wrote: On the other hand, the people who are most likely to buy GW's RoB product, are also more likely to not even know about SWM's product, so it may not even be that big of an impact on SWM's sales.
This might lean true for some online sales, but B&M stores who might potentially stock both are more likely to have customers buy the one that's available now, which can then have an effect later on. Of course, you can't measure lost sales due to a product being late to market, but I think it will have an effect. The SWM tiles look better, and are far more versatile, but there are a lot of 40k players out there who might have bought these who I'm sure will just buy the official one instead.
Funny story, when I worked at an independent FLGS we regularly had people that would only buy GW products despite having both superior AND cheaper products available. W stocked GW glue and brushes and tape measures dice and tools because regularly people bought them over the exact same but cheaper option sitting on the shelf right next to it, even when you pointed out that product X was cheaper. We had customers that refused to buy the 36" ribbon of kneadatide and bought the 8" in a blister of GW brand greenstuff for roughly the same price, despite the fact the greenstuff is LITERALLY kneadatite, even after you pointed it out to them. We'd get people that were flustered they couldn't buy GW plasticard! And yes, when the original RoB boards came out, these same people gobbled them up, at full retail price. It astounds me to this day, but it won't surprise me one bit if (when) people pass over a $200 SW board for a $330 RoB board with the "right" logo
Tannhauser42 wrote: On the other hand, the people who are most likely to buy GW's RoB product, are also more likely to not even know about SWM's product, so it may not even be that big of an impact on SWM's sales.
This might lean true for some online sales, but B&M stores who might potentially stock both are more likely to have customers buy the one that's available now, which can then have an effect later on. Of course, you can't measure lost sales due to a product being late to market, but I think it will have an effect. The SWM tiles look better, and are far more versatile, but there are a lot of 40k players out there who might have bought these who I'm sure will just buy the official one instead.
Funny story, when I worked at an independent FLGS we regularly had people that would only buy GW products despite having both superior AND cheaper products available. W stocked GW glue and brushes and tape measures dice and tools because regularly people bought them over the exact same but cheaper option sitting on the shelf right next to it, even when you pointed out that product X was cheaper. We had customers that refused to buy the 36" ribbon of kneadatide and bought the 8" in a blister of GW brand greenstuff for roughly the same price, despite the fact the greenstuff is LITERALLY kneadatite, even after you pointed it out to them. We'd get people that were flustered they couldn't buy GW plasticard! And yes, when the original RoB boards came out, these same people gobbled them up, at full retail price. It astounds me to this day, but it won't surprise me one bit if (when) people pass over a $200 SW board for a $330 RoB board with the "right" logo
I call that Brand mentality, those people who buy expensive brands even do there are cheaper alternatives, but these people derive some kind of status from buying Brand goods, GW is not even in the same league IMHO.
Jul 24 2014
Let there be boxes! (also a wall)
2 comments
12 likes
Word from WGF is that the printed boxes were delivered last night, and they'll start packing this week. I've asked for a photo, and if they're able to get me one I'll have it posted here. Progress is being made. HUZZAH!
In related news, now that I don't have to worry about production I'm turning back to the wall sets -- and detailing the Rolling Fields walls at the moment.
This is obviously a work in progress, but I wanted to give you SOME idea of what the finished product will look like. This is a resin cast of the 3D master. None of the smooth dirt sections will be visible on the finished pieces, but I asked Raffa not to sculpt the dirt in 3D as I'll be able to get a better finish this way. Rocks, twigs, etc. are next, but I'm starting with just the one endcap as a test piece.
Also, hats off to Raffa (again!) for creating a wall set with so much character! It's little things, like the fact that the two posts are slightly misaligned, and one leans, that really sell something like this for me. It's so much more believable when there are tiny "imperfections" like that <3
I'm actually still working on that wall section, while my three year old just had his mind blown because he realized that the photo on the computer was the same as what he was looking at. HA!
The wall looks good, but what game are these tall walls intended for / aimed at? I could see them being used for Zone Mortalis, but for most 40k games they seem rather tall / long / straight rather than matching the type of terrain usually used.
So I'm wondering if they're perfect for something else that I just haven't thought of?
Also great to hear the boxes are finally being packed!
I understand that these days there are also fantasy and historical games, and that some 40k games just use this old-fashioned stuff called "scenery" that can involve walls - without both players plonking down premade fortifications and bunkers as part of their armies.
Sure enough, the walls are just meant to be walls. They're modular and can be used to create firing lines, fortifications, etc. without the "Gothic" or other elements that don't match the scenery.
The idea is that your bases, terrain (including walls), and table will all share themed elements.
Possibly that might be a future product down the line, but if you're playing 40k, his jersey barriers make great "walls you can fire over." It's nice to have wall that actually block LoS for a change, though...
Jul 29 2014
The packing has begun!
7 comments
14 likes
First they received the boxes....
And then they received the stickers...
And then they tested the labeling process....
And now they're packing the tiles into boxes for shipment!
Progress is being made, tiles are being packed, and WGF should have an updated estimate for me soon on when these will make it onto a ship. It's going to be glorious!
And here's a shot of the mold tooling that the campaign paid for -- because it's pretty awesome seeing 58 separate tools -- and check out how big these things are!
Of course there's also the giant pile of tiles that we're going to have to make room for....
The team at Wargames Factory busy packing boxes, and preparing pallets. There's no word yet on when the boxes will be on the ship, but they're packing every day and working as quickly as they can.
I will, of course, get everyone another update as soon as I have one.
In the interim, if you're going to be at GenCon next week stop by and say hi! I'll be out with The War Store this year at booth 1729. I won't have any of the tiles on display, but I will be there with a massive inventory of the other Secret Weapon products, and three of our Iron Box Games titles will be running demos.
Looks like this one is now at "hopefully before Christmas" status again, since packing was supposed to be done with over a week ago and is now "packing continues, no word on a ship". Along with the tiles that were supposed to have been shipped to Mantic months ago not having been shipped out from WGF yet.
Azazelx wrote: Looks like this one is now at "hopefully before Christmas" status again, since packing was supposed to be done with over a week ago and is now "packing continues, no word on a ship". Along with the tiles that were supposed to have been shipped to Mantic months ago not having been shipped out from WGF yet.
mmm... WGF: Don't believe anything they tell you.
Feels more like WGF has a hard time predicting bottlenecks in their production lines. This leading to delays.
This is starting to feel like a historical problem for them.
Agreed. While Mr. Justin has been very upfront and open about the delays and problems, this ended my participation in Kickstarters entirely. I will not do another one.
I figure, I got onto this one with a great guy from a great company who was open, honest, upfront, and totally above board, and it still looks like it will ship roughly a year late. How bad would it be if I backed someone a little less awesome? I'd be totally screwed!
I think that is a bit extreme to be honest. I've backed 8 KS or so and all of them have shipped late. I'm only waiting on two at this point, Wrath of Kings and this one. SW is the worst case I've experienced. Just do your research before pledging the money, and never give more than your willing to lose. It is a calculated risk, but I've done so because I wanted to see those products brought to market. I think we can all agree that the next Secret Weapons Kickstarter will be much smoother.
Crimson Devil wrote: Just do your research before pledging the money, and never give more than your willing to lose. It is a calculated risk, but I've done so because I wanted to see those products brought to market. I think we can all agree that the next Secret Weapons Kickstarter will be much smoother.
I think everyone hopes the next one will be smoother, but I haven't seen anything that would convince me that will be the case. Also, the advice of "research before you pledge" is reasonable, but in the case of SWM, most of the research a potential new backer would perform would lead them to the problems experienced in this Kickstarter. I think SWM would need to conduct a second tile KS, that delivered with minimal issues/delays, before SWM can assure future backers that they have the design and manufacturing process under control.
Remember, this KS was supposedly well researched on SWM's part with the logistical issues worked out and we still got the situation we are currently dealing with, so the onus of proving their competency is on SWM and this campaign didn't provide me with much confidence in their ability to handle a project of this complexity.
I understand that SWM and WGF learned a lot from this experience and great for them, but it was at the expense of customer goodwill. Those two companies would have to show me that they have really changed before I handed them one more penny in financial support. And personally, any campaign with WGF as a manufacturer is pretty much beyond consideration because of their back log of work and general handling of this and other super-delayed campaigns. WGF produces great products, but their eagerness to accept contracts seems to have outpaced their ability to deliver on those contracts. When that changes perhaps my opinion on supporting them will change as well.
I have a feeling that this will be one of those KS where the end-product is so good, all other sins will be forgiven. I backed this KS and have been kinda annoyed but i have to say... a KS that delivers on time but lacks quality leaves me feeling worse than a KS which is late but the end product is awesome. Of all my KS I have backed, as much as I am cranky waiting for my product, in the end, it really boils down to quality. Those with quality get my repeat business. Being on tome means nothing if your product is crap.
I have heard really good things about quality for those who have seen these first hand. So I am gonna bottle up my anger until a magic delivery appears on my door step.
Am I the only person who is still happy about this thing? I'm getting a great 4x8 board for a VERY reasonable price. Did it take a lot longer than intended? Sure. But I'd rather all these kinks get worked out than have a company issue a refund or put out a subpar product.
I'd be more upset if say Justin wasn't in the hole for a large amount of his own money, but that is not the case.
I'd glady wait another 6 months if I had to in order to get this product and have it on the market for others. Although that may be simply because this is the first major product to compete with GW's overpriced nonsense, which factored in to me backing it.
Aerethan wrote: Am I the only person who is still happy about this thing?
Not speaking for others, but my enthusiasm for these boards is dead. I want what I paid for, but having the campaign finish is really the only thing engaging me at this point.
I am sure I will enjoy the boards once I have them, but with the Table War mats released earlier this year, and the Hive City board GW just released (I know I am in the minority of people who like that thing), there are other options available that make these boards less desirable. And I now associate these boards with the drama and BS of the KS campaign, so a fun, interesting product is now associated with the negativity of the last 8 months.
If I had a functional time machine I'd stick the $250 I pledged for my SWM urban boards under a rock and use it to buy some Hive City boards today. But the Delorean has a flat, so I guess I'm stuck with these boards.
Aerethan wrote: Am I the only person who is still happy about this thing? I'm getting a great 4x8 board for a VERY reasonable price. Did it take a lot longer than intended? Sure. But I'd rather all these kinks get worked out than have a company issue a refund or put out a subpar product.
I'd be more upset if say Justin wasn't in the hole for a large amount of his own money, but that is not the case.
I'd glady wait another 6 months if I had to in order to get this product and have it on the market for others. Although that may be simply because this is the first major product to compete with GW's overpriced nonsense, which factored in to me backing it.
I agree, the sheer negativity is rather surprising. It might be because I'm getting the temple board, which was always going to be last, but it doesn't seem that late.
Aerethan wrote: Am I the only person who is still happy about this thing? I'm getting a great 4x8 board for a VERY reasonable price. Did it take a lot longer than intended? Sure. But I'd rather all these kinks get worked out than have a company issue a refund or put out a subpar product.
I'd be more upset if say Justin wasn't in the hole for a large amount of his own money, but that is not the case.
I'd glady wait another 6 months if I had to in order to get this product and have it on the market for others. Although that may be simply because this is the first major product to compete with GW's overpriced nonsense, which factored in to me backing it.
I agree, the sheer negativity is rather surprising. It might be because I'm getting the temple board, which was always going to be last, but it doesn't seem that late.
Nope. I'm still happy and ok with the delays. I expect them with kickstarter projects.
I have been buying bases from SWM for years and Mr Justins stuff has always been fantastic. I imagine the boards will be no different.
I just wish I'd had the money to get a full set instead of just the display tiles at the time.
As to the negativity its understandable. People are excited about a product and want it NOW NOW NOW. Nothing wrong with that, it just doesn't produce anything useful, just stress....
Yeah, I don't think anyone is really happy about the delays. But what else are you going to do?
It was a brand new venture for Justin and the community as a whole. It's not like this has been done before*. Who could have predicted the things that would go wrong?
And how many of the delays were actually Justins fault? And what else is he going to do about delays out of his control? Beg forgiveness and offer 10% discounts? I think not.
All he can do is shrug and say "oh well" about the things he has no control over.
What would you do/have done in his situation?
*Yes GW made a plastic injection moulded board. But we all know they aren't going to be giving advice on these things to direct competition.
And how many of the delays were actually Justins fault? And what else is he going to do about delays out of his control? Beg forgiveness and offer 10% discounts? I think not.
All he can do is shrug and say "oh well" about the things he has no control over.
What would you do/have done in his situation?
He does need to offer a Mea Culpa and some decent-sized discounts - especially given the second wave pledge manager" thing that didn't end up panning out along with the substantial delays. And my understanding is that he plans to do exactly that, so credit to Justin on that point. However, I wouldn't back another KS from WGF, and Justin/SWM would have to have run a second campaign where everything ran smooth as butter and delivered on time before I'd consider giving him my money 2 years out again.
Justin's in a very difficult position here, since it seems that everything WGF tells him is total bs, but when he passes it on to us, he's the one on the hook nd held responsible for it (which is fair enough as well, to an extent). Packing was supposed to be finished over 3 weeks ago now according to what he was told awhile back, and with no newer updates, it seems that perhaps packing isn't done. Still. Also "no word on a ship" doesn't inspire any kind of confidence. On the other hand, as much as WGF feth him (or Mark/DFG, etc) over with delays and endless layers of bs false promises, he's not exactly in a position where he can publicly throw them under the bus either. They've got his money, they've got his tools and the means to manufacture them, and they've got his stock. It seems pretty obvious that he can't publicly say anything negative about them. After all, I'm sure they could make things go even slower if they wanted to - and gak, the boards missed GenCon, which has got to cost Justin even more money in terms of exposure, GW has released their own cityscape tiles, which is going to cost in terms of people having bought (and continuing to buy) the GW ones...
Meanwhile, backers are rightfully pissed off with him as well for the delays, especially given that all the homework was supposed to have been done and gak is going to be a year or more late.
Remember, this KS was supposedly well researched on SWM's part with the logistical issues worked out and we still got the situation we are currently dealing with
There's no supposed about it - it was well researched, but that only takes you so far when doing any kind of project for the first time. I get to deal with the nuts and bolts sides of big auto parts manufacturers, and despite decades of experience, there are always delays, pushbacks, and problems, because the unexpected stuff wouldn't be unexpected if it'd been either easily predictable, or in the existing research. Computer files to printing issues, the boxes, all things that stick out in hindsight, but in the initial research and planning, "I give data, timing, and quantity to company, they give me quote and when the time comes, boxes,' is not something that foresight would predict blowing up in your face late in the project.
Update #132 Aug 19 2014
Deadzone Shipping - Please Read
Comment Like 10 likes
I received confirmation from Mantic today that we can begin shipping any time, but I want to make sure everyone has a chance to confirm their address, and so we will begin shipping on Monday 25-August.
This applies only to the Deadzone tile sets, and only for those backers that only backed for the Deadzone tiles. If that's you, please make sure we have your current address:
My apologies that this wasn't timed with the Deadzone Wave 2 shipments from Mantic. I missed an email on the run up to GenCon, but we're on it now and I have the crew sorting the tile shipments.
What about the other tiles?
While I was at GenCon I received an email from WGF asking me to confirm the AUS/UK numbers. While this is a good indicator that they're sorting the shipments I have asked for confirmation. I will post more as soon as I have news. Of course this is August, and that means I'm actually only home today before heading out again... then back next Monday and flying out again on Wednesday. It's good times! This means that while the update will be posted I will otherwise be less able to reply to comments until I return on 3-September.
Aerethan wrote: Am I the only person who is still happy about this thing? I'm getting a great 4x8 board for a VERY reasonable price. Did it take a lot longer than intended? Sure. But I'd rather all these kinks get worked out than have a company issue a refund or put out a subpar product.
I'd be more upset if say Justin wasn't in the hole for a large amount of his own money, but that is not the case.
I'd glady wait another 6 months if I had to in order to get this product and have it on the market for others. Although that may be simply because this is the first major product to compete with GW's overpriced nonsense, which factored in to me backing it.
I agree, the sheer negativity is rather surprising. It might be because I'm getting the temple board, which was always going to be last, but it doesn't seem that late.
I really didn't intend for my negativity to come out as negativity towards SWM or Justin. He has really been great about the whole thing. Sure, I would rather have had the board months ago, but I do really feel like the problems he encountered were not of his own doing, and were genuinely unanticipated. I'll be glad to have the board, and glad to promote it to others.
But I backed this particular project because he wasn't a fly-by-night company, or someone just starting up, or someone who could just pack up with my cash and take off. He's the owner of a well-known, well-regarded, well-established gaming business. I felt like he would know as much as anyone about what he was getting into, and he has been upfront and honest about everything.
There's not many other kickstarters I can say that about. For products I might be interested in, so many of these people are unknown quantities, or they are hoping for the next Bones kickstarter while not preparing for that. I'm glad I backed this product, and I'll gladly send him some more money in the future. But it really did make me gunshy of Kickstarter. He's a stand-up guy and he got put through the wringer on this product. A less honest businessman might have shrugged his shoulders and moved on with the cash. I'm not sure I'm willing to roll the dice on another project at this point.
Project Update #133: Tablescapes - LEAVING CHINA!
Posted by Secret Weapon ♥ Like
You read that right folks! I have an email from WGF letting me know that they're scheduling the freight and waiting on a ship.
If you need to update your address....
The ship won't leave China for another week or so, which means you still have 4+ weeks to get your address updated. I will post another update before we start shipping, which will allow you to place a hold on your order if you're going to be in transit, on holiday, etc. In the interim, please update your address in BackerKit if you need to:
I'm packing up to head to NOVA Open this week, but I'll be checking in with China from the road. I don't expect to have an update until I have the ship information, but I'll post news as I have it. I will be using a vessel tracker for the ships, so we can all follow along.
Thank you!
Thank you for your patience, or at least forbearance, throughout this process. We're moving forward, and all of the tiles will be shipping in the very near future.
This is not a drill. I repeat: this is not a drill.
Three ships will be leaving Hong Kong in the next week, and the Tabelscapes Tiles are on them. No, really.
This is a shot of the 20' container on its way to the UK. There is another 20' on the way to AUS, and two 40' containers on the way to my warehouse. I will update again as soon as I have the ship information so we can all watch them make their way across the pond. In the interim...
Please log in and confirm your address. I will close the system on Friday 11-September to give us enough time to process the mail merge and get packing lists built. This is not a drill. The tiles are no longer in the
Oooh, just in time for my to packing up and moving to an apartment that won't have room for a game room! Hurray!
That's okay, maybe I can get a 6x4 board and lay it on the carpet or something. Worst case, I could just take them with me up to the game store, I guess.
I am still waiting on the vessel information for the AUS and UK shipments, and I will have that information posted as soon as I receive it.
We will lock down BackerKit this week!
If you need to get in and update your address, please do so now. I realize that most of you probably haven't moved, but it doesn't hurt just to confirm that everything in your profile is correct. Two minutes now can save a lot of hassle down the road....
We have 81 Deadzone only orders shipping from our California warehouse, and here's the first half of them. They're being picked up by FedEx on 12-September and we'll have plenty more ready to go out by then.
I will be sending the Deadzone backer information to Mantic and The Combat Company no later than Monday. We just need to confirm the countries are correct and that we don't double ship them from the USA.
BackerKit will be locked down on 12-Sept
With the first container due in California in less than three weeks we're locking down the BackerKit system. If you need to update your address, or confirm your pledge, please do so now.
All of the themes are in these shipments.
The #1 question I've been getting is "which themes are ready to ship?" The answer is all of them. We're shipping everything in one big wave, and everything has left China. WGF has no active Tablescapes production in the queue. This is it for the first shipments.
Where is SWM's warehouse? I know its in California but is it in the Los Angeles area or near San Francisco? Just wondering what transit time (if any) will be tacked on to the boards arriving in Oakland and then being trucked down to the warehouse.
Da Butcha wrote: I'm glad I backed this product, and I'll gladly send him some more money in the future. But it really did make me gunshy of Kickstarter.
Wouldn't be surprised if SW is as well. SW cancelled its last KS, preferring to fund it directly. Their last product, the Schaff brushes (as good as Raphael 8404's) was also released directly from their store. The Malice Game Tiles will be released "soon" with "the molds being poured this week" (see SW Facebook). No indication if it will be a KS, so I'm guessing it will be in store. If so, you'll get your tiles and support SW, too!
Ah, didn't know either got cancelled. I wasn't especially interested in either the games, nor backing additional projects from a company with such huge delays (even with the blame being at WGF), so I simply tuned out.
I am working with ModiFX / The Combat Company to clear the AUS shipment for release. The freight company has already arranged transportation to the warehouse, and we're gearing up to ship all of the AUS orders in October.
The first of two shipments to the USA warehouse is due at our door on Friday 3-October. If you happen to be in the Sacramento, California region and want to help us unload a truck... we'll make it fun, you can pick up your order (assuming it's all on the first truck), and anything we have in stock can be purchased at 20% off of MSRP while you're there.
I do not yet have an update on the UK ship, or the second USA ship, but they're still moving.
All of the USA originated Deadzone orders - meaning those backers that pledged ONLY for Deadzone tiles - have been shipped. UK/EU and AUS orders are pending, but they will have the shipping information today, and I will coordinate the release with them ASAP.
I am reposting the ship information only so it's easy to keep track of.
Who has the last of the ship information? I DO! I DO!
Man, Murphy's law really has hit this project hard....
#139
A Wild Customs Officer Appears!
Posted by Secret Weapon
The vessel for the first US shipment has been flagged for intensive examination, which means that my container will be sent to another warehouse for customs inspection.
This means I get to pay additional customs fees (YAY!), and that our container will be delayed 4-5 days (or more if there's a backlog) while they inspect the boxes.
If you were planning to join us for the unloading on 3-October... hold your horses. I'll have another update as soon as I have more news.
I'm glad they're here! Although I anticipate selling my rolling fields display board, as the delay has meant it missed the project I had intended it for (of course if someone is interested in it, please PM me otherwise I'll be putting it up in the Swap Shop).
Ours aren't lax, just stupid, I got a letter in a parcel containing Xbox games from the UK, informing me not import foodstuffs. There was no foodstuffs, room in the package for foodstuffs or anything inside even resembling food.
Left me wondering if Australian customs are a bunch of dudes whose job is to find out, can I eat it.
I've known people who have ordered from hasslefree and not had the problem.
Basically, Australian Customers randomly open packages to audit. You'll know it because they put a huge 'inspected by customs' sticker on it. If hasslefree randomly throw unordered candy in there, it's not something that's going to cause you trouble. At most, if they audit your package, they'll remove it and put a sticker on it, and a note abut what they removed.
In the above case, they probably also opened a package that did have food and put the note in the wrong package.
Status Update - All Themes - All Countries wrote:AUSTRALIA - UNLOADED
First up we have the first official photo of Tablescapes Tiles in the wild - or in this case the inventory sitting in The Combat Company warehouse in Australia.
USA 1 of 2 - INCOMING!
The first US container is due today (8-Oct) at 11:30 AM -- which means I need to finish this update and get my butt out the door to help unload. Stay tuned for photos, because we're unloading 2x what you see in the photo above, and that's only the first container!
UK/EU - DUE NEXT WEEK
Mantic Games has confirmed that their container is due next week, and everything should be arranged for delivery at this point. I'll have an update on this as soon as we have word from customs.
SHIPPING LISTS / MAIL MERGE
The mail merge is complete, and being reviewed for errors one last time. This will go out to the AUS/UK distributors on Monday of next week, and everyone will have the green light to begin shipping.
ADD-ON ITEMS & ADDITIONAL PURCHASES
I'm going to get the Tablescapes Tiles listed on the SWM site this week, and create a hidden sale for backers (and late backers). Keep an eye on your email for a link.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Seriously, I can't thank you enough. Together we've managed to maintain (or at least feign when necessary) our enthusiasm on this project despite delays, setbacks, and a litany of minor annoyances. Now that the product is actually here (or about to be) the entire thing seems unreal.
Without your help this wouldn't have happened. Sure, the bank helped too, but they don't get the love.
I'll need time to recover from the launch, but once that's done you can expect great new things from the Tablescapes range. Stay tuned....
I'm going to get the Tablescapes Tiles listed on the SWM site this week, and create a hidden sale for backers (and late backers). Keep an eye on your email for a link.
Snrub wrote: Why do you have to pay extra just so customs can rifle through your container?
How is that fair in any way, shape or form?
Because unfortunately, while we're all honest and scrupulous people here, there are a lot of people who try and sneak illegal/undeclared goods through ports in the shipping containers. You can't check them all, and all that volume costs money to store until processed.
It also might've been something that triggered an automatic review - a shipping container filled with a product from China that they've never had pass through before, better double-check to that it really is a container full of 'plastic gaming tiles' and there aren't knock-off products or something in there.
Especially if "Secret Weapon" is anywhere in the paperwork. Despite us knowing what SWM is, would you want to be the customs guy in charge if something bad happened because you didn't inspect the container marked "Secret Weapon". Imagine the questions that would be asked. Imagine Fox News!
Just imagine if a container from china with "weapons" somewhere (anywhere!) on the paperwork (not stamped on the side of the container, Road Runner cartoon style) wasn't inspected and then there was some sort of terror attack made shortly afterwards using the contents of that container. Imagine being the guy who waved that through. Imagine what their supervisors would say. Imagine what Fox News would say. Lifetime repercussions, and on and on. All of the Terror alerts have just risen recently, so I can see anyone in customs being extra cautious and not letting anything with "weapons" anywhere on the paperwork go through without checking it properly.
Obviously, this is all speculation based on the trading name of Justin's business. Hopefully he's been sensible enough to set himself up as "Nerdcorp LLC" who is simply trading as "Secret Weapon Miniatures". ...and if not, it might just be time to do that.
The one time there is awesome news to share and Cyp beats me to the punch. All this hard work.... but for naught.
On the plus side though, here's another update...
Update #141
Oct 9 2014
And so it begins....
2 comments
6 likes
And now we all fall down.
588 cartons were unloaded, with a total weight of 12,652.3 pounds.
As soon as we started some of the other tenants came out to see what we were about. Shortly after that we had a pile of pallets, a forklift, and a driver for the former. Thanks to their help it turned a 4+ hour death sentence into a 1.5 hour slow torture. They'll be back next week to help with the second 40' container... which has even more stuff in it. EEP!
Also, I need more warehouse. Dammit. Fortunately that's already done too. Once the first wave is moved we'll transition to pallet shelves.
Stay Tuned For Pre-Orders!
We will begin shipping to backers that ordered one of these unloaded themes - and ONLY these unloaded themes - by the end of the week.
My goal is to have pre-orders listed for these themes, and only these themes, at the top of next week. I will email out a link so that you can order from the super secret, hidden pre-order page.
But they're here. They're really, really here. The rest of the tiles, mostly the Urban themes, are due next week.
Azazelx wrote: Especially if "Secret Weapon" is anywhere in the paperwork. Despite us knowing what SWM is, would you want to be the customs guy in charge if something bad happened because you didn't inspect the container marked "Secret Weapon". Imagine the questions that would be asked. Imagine Fox News!
Heh, I really don't imagine anything that dire, but from what I've heard, it's not just a computer randomly picking a certain percentage of containers or looking for keywords, but if something catches the processors eye, they get a gut feeling, or something that makes them go, 'huh, that's interesting,' that's enough too. It helps keep things random and harder to duck if it's not all a set system.
Hell, maybe the shipment passed an inspector who paid into the kickstarter and was like, 'is that what I think it is? I wanna get a look."
Unless there entry system is different to here in the US, Its possible the Exam also happens because it may have been imported as a single entry bond which for whatever reason snags a exam 90% of the time.
For the Aussies that bought into this, I was in Combat Company today and they have them aaaaalllll there. Just waiting on a manifest of where to send everything.
I'll be camping their webstore to buy up a 6x4 urban set as soon as they go up.
This might actually be the last freight update. No, really.
Tuesday 14-October: The UK container is due at Mantic Games
Wednesday 15-October: The second US container is due at SWM HQ
The mail merge has been completed, reviewed, and all orders shipping from the US warehouse have been printed so we can manually check for an issues before we give the lists to our UK/AUS partners.
In short... this is it. Really. Wow.
If you're in the Sacramento, California area and you'd like to help unload the truck (and pick up your order in the process - along with anything in stock!) please drop a line and let us know. We managed the last one in under two hours, and the truck is due at 8 AM, so it should be a fun, short, exhausting bit of work.
But since I spent part of the day moving boxes in the warehouse to make room for the second shipment, and the afternoon finalizing copy for the official launch, I'm going to fall into a manhattan now.
We have Tablescapes Tiles. In stock. In the warehouse. Wow.
The Urban tiles are now available to pre-order. The truck is scheduled to deliver on Wednesday 15-October, so there's no holding us back now!
I have also updated the product descriptions to include all of the bells and whistles, but you probably already know about all of that
If you see anything that's not as it should be, please let me now.
In the interim I just got word from the warehouse that we packed up 35 orders that will be the first to ship on Monday -- not counting the two orders folks have picked up directly, of course.
I've been holding off being excited by this because ... well, lots of delays. And Justin's communication has been top notch, so I've been trying to avoid the frustration loop.
My first post on Dakka! So! I have a "Wargamer" coming my way at some point (16 tiles each of Forgotten City and Rolling Hills). Because I'm insane, I'm considering picking up some Clean Urban Streets (either 16 or 24) during the pre-order.
But now that I'm looking at the final tile distributions on the site, I'm having a little trouble making the Urban Street layout work (I drew lines on 24 little pieces of paper, what can I tell you) - I always have at least one street dead-ending into a foundation tile. Is that what they were going for? Anyone given a table layout any thought?
I have a tracking number! (Just a display board here)
ubik2000 - Welcome to Dakka!! Sorry I can't help on the urban layout, it was never one I considered so I didn't obsess over the configuration possibilities like I would have otherwise
RiTides wrote: I have a tracking number! (Just a display board here)
ubik2000 - Welcome to Dakka!! Sorry I can't help on the urban layout, it was never one I considered so I didn't obsess over the configuration possibilities like I would have otherwise
I got an email from FedEx Delivery Manager, like I do when anyone sends something to me via FedEx... so, you might need/want to register on the FedEx site for that.
RiTides wrote: I got an email from FedEx Delivery Manager, like I do when anyone sends something to me via FedEx... so, you might need/want to register on the FedEx site for that.
Ok that is really cool. Signed up. Sadly the only tracking number I have is the one for my wife's amazon order so far....
No tracking number for me :( I gotta wait cuz I switched to the blow'd up street tiles that are coming next week I think?
trying to figure out how I'm gonna paint em. I'm too cheap to go buy an airbrush, and using a normal teeny brush will slowly drive me insane. And I'm afraid cheapy spray paint will be thick and screw up the detail.
Necros wrote: No tracking number for me :( I gotta wait cuz I switched to the blow'd up street tiles that are coming next week I think?
They're coming in about 2hrs IIRC.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: I got an email from FedEx Delivery Manager, like I do when anyone sends something to me via FedEx... so, you might need/want to register on the FedEx site for that.
Thanks, that ended up working for me and now I have my tracking number.
48lbs of Tablescapes will show up on my door on the 20th.
All packed neatly into their box. Justin even has Secret Weapon sticky tape. Fancy bugger.
The box and the separate tiles.
Tiles in the box with connectors. Each tile was wrapped individually too!
Tiles on my (just made) bed.
The box itself. For all the trouble the boxes caused, I think it was worth it. They are really nice boxes.
There was also this update on the KS page.
Update #144
Oct 17 2014
Shipping Update - All Themes - All Countries
10 comments
17 likes
AUSTRALIA
As of our last correspondence The Combat Company has shipped 126 of 244 parcels. If you are waiting on an 8 tile set of Rolling Fields there will be a slight delay; see below.
EU/UK
Mantic has received their container, and is sorting things for shipment. We're coordinating the logistics of that now, and I'll update again when shipping begins. If you are waiting on an 8 tile set of Rolling Fields there will be a slight delay; see below.
USA & EVERYWHERE ELSE
We have received both of our 40' containers, and have already begun shipping orders. I don't have a count on those, but I know that I personally packed at least 30 Double Wargamer sets last night. We have a team dedicated to Tablescapes shipping (and I'll head to the warehouse after I post this), and we're cranking through as quickly as possible. The pressure is on too because we needed more warehouse space... and only have it for two weeks. So it's go time!
8 Tile Rolling Fields - DELAY
Way back in February I approved a shipment of 8 tile sets from Wargames Factory to their Utah warehouse. Those three pallets contain ALL of the 8 tile Rolling Fields sets -- including the 134 sets that should have gone to Mantic and The Combat Company.
If you're waiting on an 8 tile Rolling Fields set in the EU/UK or AUS there will be a slight delay while they wait on me to get them the missing tile sets. My apologies for this mistake. I am working to get it corrected quickly.
GO! GO! GO!
And that's the state of things. We're shipping every day, and I'm off to go and get some orders out the door.
Ok the ruined streets do look pretty amazing. I got the clean streets because I'm the freak that uses Cities of Death kits to build complete un-ruined buildings, and I'm getting mine tomorrow!
4 tile display set $79.99 (includes frame)
16 Tile set $199.99
24 Tile Set $249.99
That's very slightly cheaper than the GW board, although more likely to be discounted. I'm still glad I withdrew my pledge. My gaming needs have changed in the last two years, and while it would be cool to get a great discount, I'm excited to see these enter general distribution. I also figure that, like most injection plastic stuff, there will be times they are more heavily discounted (at least in bundle form).
I'm willing to be a late adopter, and see what these look like painted and played on.
Oct 18 2014
All Themes - All Countries - GENERAL UPDATE
17 comments
8 likes
Just a quick update on how things are progressing....
Shipping Status
The Rolling Fields 8 tile sets all arrived at the Secret Weapon warehouse today. We will have them out to Mantic and The Combat Company next week after we coordinate delivery.
Australian and American customers have begun receiving their tiles. I will be begging for unboxing images
Everything should be square with Mantic shortly, and I'll update again as soon as they begin shipping.
Secret Weapon HQ expects to move about 200 orders next week -- which would put us close to the 50% mark for orders shipped. We are shipping domestic orders first as they're all going FedEx, whereas international orders (at least Canada, which make up the bulk) will ship via USPS.
Backer Pre-Order Additions
This is the last weekend to add pre-order items to your pledge. We're doing our best to combine orders so that your pledge and new additions go out together. Act quickly though, because at the pace we're going your pledge might be out before we get your addition.
Public Pre-Orders
I will open pre-orders to the public as soon as we break at least the 50% mark for overall orders shipped. All domestic backer orders will be shipped prior to any public pre-orders, or distributor wholesale orders.
Funds from these sales will help cover the cost of international shipping, particularly to Canada.
Border Frame Add-On
If you included a border frame with your pledge... it's going to be late. No excuse here, I simply forgot to include them in my production order. I realized this as soon as I received the containers, and I'm already communicating with WGF to get them produced and shipped. I will have an update on this as soon as there's news to share. These will be shipped separately from your pledge as soon as they are available.
If you ordered a Display Board - your border frame IS INCLUDED with your tiles.
Themed Wall/Fortification Add-Ons
We're cranking out the wall sets, and adding to the production molds, as quickly as possible. These will not be available as add-on items until all backers have received their pledge sets.
104 Boxes, Standing By
When I left the warehouse today we had 104 parcels ready for FedEx to pick up. These were largely Wargamer, and Double Wargamer orders, as they take up the most space -- and we need more room to stage orders. Next week we'll have enough room (and the shipping supplies we're low on) in the warehouse to start in on the smaller orders. Those will move through the warehouse very quickly.
That's It For Now
I'll be back next week with more updates, but right now I'm going to go and celebrate my ten year wedding anniversary... because I can
So I did some playing around with my tiles yesterday, just to get a feel for them.
They are exquisite to say the least and well worth the wait.
Took some side by side shots comparing various clean and damaged tiles (if anyone is interested).
Spoiler:
Clean Street (a)
Damaged Street (a) 1
Damaged Street (a) 2
Spoiler:
Clean Street (b)
Damaged Street (b)
Spoiler:
Clean Intersection
Damaged Intersection
I did notice that on the underside of some tiles there is a tiny point where the injection point is. This can unbalance the tile if sitting on a hard flat surface.
It's easy removed though with a blade or file. Some of them you can even rub away with your thumb.
And also, for those who have 16 ruined/8 clean urban tiles, you can fit them all into the one box. Like so.
-22 tiles lined one way.
-1 tile lined the opposite way.
-slide the clips down the side.
-Final tile sits on top.
I'm going to assume that a full 24 clean urban tiles will also fit nicely as well. I don't think 24 ruined urban tiles will fit though. I can't comment on any of the other styles.
A lone sentinal stalks across the ruined cityscape.
Wayland Games is confirmed as the UK retail distributor - there is a small amount of stock for them in the shipment that went to Mantic so preorders should be up soon.
Snrub wrote: So I did some playing around with my tiles yesterday, just to get a feel for them.
They are exquisite to say the least and well worth the wait. an
I'm going to assume that a full 24 clean urban tiles will also fit nicely as well. I don't think 24 ruined urban tiles will fit though. I can't comment on any of the other styles.
A lone sentinal stalks across the ruined cityscape.
They look really good; I can't wait to get mine in and you're making me jealous. I ordered 16 Clean and 16 Ruined myself and really can't wait for them to get here.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Urgh not way-tingforstock-land :-( guess I will have to wait until a decent retailer starts stocking these.
This. Call me when Dark Sphere or Element Games start selling them, I don't fancy waiting around for weeks on end while Wayland process the order on their 1950's building-sized punchcard computer or whatever the hell it is that makes them so slow.
I got a set of Rolling Fields and a set of Scrapyard, as well as a display set of Scrapyard. Gorkamorka, here I come. Anyone else remember the 'rolling road' scenario?
I got mine yesterday (two big boxes, and then a small box of 4). All street tiles, all clean.
I'm in several minds about them.
On one hand, they're great. They're the perfect sort of road system in that they're completely modular and with the spread I have (2x16 + 4) I can do a variety of things.
On the other hand, the ruined tiles (which one of my friends got), look better than the regular streets. The detail level is pretty damned impressive, and I'm kinda wishing I'd got some ruined ones.
One the other other hand, repeated terrain details like the same pile or rubble would begin to annoy me. I generally dislike what I call "moulded tables", that is to say tables with "built-in" terrain*. It's why I dislike GW's Realm of Battle Board, because as nice as it looks those hills are always going to be there, and you have a limited amount of scope over what can be done with the table. I think that, as nice as the ruined streets stuff is, the limited variety would stop me from wanting a large amount of it. The good news is that these are 1x1 tiles, meaning you can do a lot more with them in terms of variety and changing the setup, something that's not possible with 2x2 tiles like the GW ones.
*The exception to this is tables with trenches. Trenches never work as deployable terrain pieces because they're simply not trenches. They don't sink into the table (like a trench would), they rise above it, meaning they're just raised battlements. GW gets away with this because their plastic battlements specifically aren't trenches, but there are lots of terrain companies out there that make "trenches" that look terrible. Moulded tables with the trenches built in are the only way to achieve proper trenches. It'll be interesting to see how Secret Weapons handles that.
On the other other other hand, the streets are all straight. Generally speaking, and I know a lot of people that have echoed this across Dakka, streets work better for wargames when they're at an angle to avoid creating near terrain-less thoroughfares that make games too easy, or overbalance the game in favour of heavy shooting armies.
On the other other other other hand, as mentioned above, the smaller scale of the tiles (1x1) means that you can mitigate this problem somewhat with good placement.
And finally, on the final hand, I was saddened to see that there's no dead-end road piece like the test shots during the KS had led me to believe. See this:
The lowest tile on the right doesn't exist in the finished product. There's a road with a barricade to be sure, but it's a regular straight road. It doesn't have a border of regular paving around three sides like the one in that picture. That was disappointing.
Overall I'm very happy with the product and I don't regret purchasing it (unlike Sedition Wars and Deadzone). I'm just in several minds about what could have been.
Mine were apparently delivered to my mailing address today, so I'll pick them up on Friday evening and (probably) open them this weekend for a look at QC. 1 set each of regular streets, and ruined streets. I figure it should give me enough variety for a warzone table of various proportions, without needing to have a new ruin every 12" or so.
I also ordered a set of rolling hills and ruined temple from the backer pre-order sale for my Zavod 311 tank graveyard table, so hopefully they get here in the next month or so and I'll see just how much they can co-exist with the roads (if at all) before I work out how to paint either set....
According to my parents, I received two boxes at different times in the post (different couriers?Aust Post delivery people?). Not unusual in itself.
One large box from somewhere in China, and one smaller box - "like a large shoebox" from Combat Company inside a plastic mailing package.
Do either of these sound familiar to anyone? I'm concerned that the Chinese box could be something unrelated and that SWM/Combat Company fethed up my order and I got the original display board set sent out instead of the "Wargamer" I upgraded to via the pledge manager...
Actually, I think I know what the Chinese box is.... 1:6 scale models. gak... I wonder how long Justin and CC will take to un feth my order.
updated:
I've been in contact with Justin now and he's confirmed that CC got the correct info. Now I'll just have to wait and see what's in the box...
I got my display board - but the tiles aren't what was pictured on the KS :-/. It's not a random 4 tiles for display boards, is it? I really wanted the 90 degree turn creek bed... in the end I only got one appropriate tile and 3 others.......
RiTides wrote: I got my display board - but the tiles aren't what was pictured on the KS :-/. It's not a random 4 tiles for display boards, is it? I really wanted the 90 degree turn creek bed... in the end I only got one appropriate tile and 3 others.......
Last word I can find is:
"Rolling Fields" will get 2 flat tiles, the rock feature, and possibly the 90* creek bend.
I got 2 straight river tiles and 2 flat tiles. I like them but I was hoping for the 90 degree river one too.
Also, anyone else concerned at it's ability to hold weight? I feel like without a under support peice all that weight on the center plug could end poorly.
I got 2 straight river tiles and 2 flat tiles. I like them but I was hoping for the 90 degree river one too.
Hmm.. Thats what I went home from Adepticon with as well, but I had thought it was just a 'here are four tiles that WGV sent us'.
Hulksmash wrote: Also, anyone else concerned at it's ability to hold weight? I feel like without a under support peice all that weight on the center plug could end poorly.
I believe you could easily carry the display board with plastic models on it around easily for quick bursts; but I wouldn't suggest lugging a full metal Warmachine force on one as if it was a carrying tray. But I'd say the same thing about a single 2x2 tile board like the GW or G&G ones as well, better to be safe than sorry.
Snrub wrote: I don't really think it's designed to be used like that though.
They aren't made to be self supporting.
Except it's a display board. Which is something you use to transport your army from spot to spot at an event.
Honestly from a support standpoint the X-board feels much safer for my army.
@Cyporiean
Yaeh, it might be ok for all plastic but I do worry because even my plastic armies start to get heavy, especially once you add in custom bases, conversion parts, and vehicles. It just flexes enough that you can see light through the frame when you put stuff on it. Makes me me leary.
I don't even see how four tiles held together by the frame would even be feasibly carried around without collapsing. You'd definitely need a bit of hardboard underneath it.
To be fair there is a connector in the middle of the 4 tiles underneath. So there is some support. It just doesn't feel like something I'm 100% happy to put an army I spend hundreds of hours painting & converting on.
@cyporiean
Let's be real. Display board in our hobby tends to mean the board you transport your army around on at an event. Are you going to bring 2 different boards. One for transport and 1 for display? Most people's answer is no. At least that's true of games like 40k & Fantasy. Smaller model count games probably wouldn't want the full size anyway.
That said, I think you can do a 2'x1' board with the parts and that's likely much more stable for things like Warmachine/Hordes.
Hulksmash wrote: To be fair there is a connector in the middle of the 4 tiles underneath. So there is some support. It just doesn't feel like something I'm 100% happy to put an army I spend hundreds of hours painting & converting on.
@cyporiean
Let's be real. Display board in our hobby tends to mean the board you transport your army around on at an event. Are you going to bring 2 different boards. One for transport and 1 for display? Most people's answer is no.
While I don't do tournaments, I do go to a lot of events for demoing.
Which means bringing a board to play on (such as a ROB tile, the SWM display board, or a small custom job), and then something to carry the minis on. These events are usually very crowded to get around, and it would be silly to try and walk around with a 2'x2' board horizontal through a crowd of people and not be concerned with models getting knocked off/sliding off. So I carry the board under my arm, and models in a separate tray or even back it their bag.
Demoing is going to a single place and setting up. So bringing it in a bag and a seperate "table" is fine. For playing in tournaments though it's not. And 2x2 isn't that bad at an event. Most boards I use are 24"x18" anyway.
I think the frame is going to hurt sales for simple, pre-done, display boards for the market most likely to use them.
That said a 2x1 board is probably stable enough so almost every other game system will be fine to us it. But now you're paying more than $60 (whatever retail is) for a 2x1 board.
I will have two painted, and two un-painted tiles set up as Display Boards for each of the four themes. In addition, On The Lamb Games will be running demos of Brushfire on a fully painted Rolling Fields Display Board, and Mantic Games will be running demos of Deadzone on two fully painted Deadzone Display Board sets.
No rock formation, no creek bend - just 2 straight creek panels and two flat. I got the same tiles as you Hulk with 3 out of 4 incorrect.
What hurts even worse is that the art on the box cover is correct, but it seems they got the contents of All rolling field displays wrong :-/. Can you take a pic of yours Hulk, and I'll do the same?
RiTides wrote: No rock formation, no creek bend - just 2 straight creek panels and two flat. I got the same tiles as you Hulk with 3 out of 4 incorrect.
What hurts even worse is that the art on the box cover is correct, but it seems they got the contents of All rolling field displays wrong :-/. Can you take a pic of yours Hulk, and I'll do the same?
I just sent Justin a message about it. I'll let ya know what I find out, or perhaps summon him here.
Okay great (and thanks Cyp). Like I said, from last night I believe only 1 of 4 tiles matched the box picture, and Hulk it sounds like we got the same ones (two straight creek and two rather featureless flats), but it would be good to confirm that they are identical.
The content is correct - 2 straight and 2 flat tiles.
The cover art is the same on all of the Rolling Fields boxes and is
not indicative of the contents -- which is identified on the back of
the box. What they're reporting SHOULD match the attached image.
darefsky wrote: Have the Ruined Temple tiles started shipping yet?
Aerethan wrote: Is a 90 degree water feature SUPPOSED to be included?
It was shown in all the images of the display board... but apparently was changed and removed without any announcement of such
I got those contents as well, and to be frank, they suck when put all together like that. Who wants a display board with just a straight feature along one side like that? The tiles shown in the campaign are much more interesting... and on the box front... and all over the web...
I'm not super upset because I will likely only use one or two tiles to display DzC minis one, but I certainly wish I'd gone for ruined temple or something else now (although who knows - maybe the contents of those has been stealth switched, too!).
Really disappointed in Secret Weapon that they didn't announce this change... but apparently knew about it all along / did it intentionally, and we had to find out about it when opening the box...
Did he give any explanation as to WHY they changed the contents to less interesting tiles, Cyp (and whether the same is true of other display board types)?
---------------------------------
Evidence, from the main page of the campaign:
This 4 tile "Rolling Fields" Display Board can be selected as a pledge reward, or an add-on item, and features two flat tiles, one rock feature, and one creek bend.
RiTides wrote: Did he give any explanation as to WHY they changed the contents to less interesting tiles, Cyp (and whether the same is true of other display board types)?
Box contents are on the back. This particular configuration was
chosen during one of the updates too, when folks pointed out that more
L bends weren't useful to other sets, and that the rock feature left
too little room for models. The display board needed to be as flat as
possible, thus the chosen tiles.
I'm also used my summoning ability, and he should pop into the thread soon.
Deciding something as important as box contents in the comments isn't the most helpful for people... I followed the comments very closely during the campaign, and from what I remembered, the bend was in.
We didn't get the rock pile, either - it's just a bummer that this wasn't announced at all.
Almost every single update regarding rolling fields has the creek bend (and the rock pile to boot).
It's just a massive failure in communication, particularly since it doesn't even match the art on the box. I guess they're not planning on selling display boards in stores? Because putting art similar to that of the campaign and the above pic on the box cover, and then different contents inside... doesn't seem like a good idea at all.
I appreciate your passing on the message Cyp, and would love for Justin to come here to give any further explanation, but that's some really poor communication and resulting in at least two of us (who happen to be frequent posters on here - who knows how many others felt the same) being unpleasantly surprised by the display board contents upon opening the box...
Yeah, I probably would have gone for eithr the urban ruins or the temple if I'd known we were going to get the much more generic board of the generic setting.
Oh well. Not super happy that I paid in advance for over a year for a meh display board that I'm probably not going to use due to my worries about it being able to hold my army.
It not matching the art on the box or being announced it would be different from the updates is pretty crappy too.
On the plus side the neat little plague holder thing that slips on is pretty cool.
It sounds to me like Justin seriously slipped up on the communications front. I hope that he resolves this to the satisfaction of his investors, or I'll be more than a little disappointed with his company.
Yeah, I was just thinking of that Ketara, but I'm not sure how it could be rectified - the possibility of swapping tiles at a convention, perhaps? As shipping seems to make it untenable otherwise...
I'm not going to burn down the house, it's just a bummer and was a surprise - and actually much more of a surprise now that I realize that the different tiles (which, as Hulk said, are more generic than expected) were included on purpose, rather than by mistake, and that the change was never announced despite it differing from the contents on the main page of the Kickstarter.
I'm only here briefly to answer questions about box contents before I have to disappear again to get orders shipped, and keep things moving.
@RiTides -- much discussion about the Display Board contents took place, and the contents are based on community feedback. It was pointed out to me by many that the rock feature left too little room for models, and that the straight creeks would be more useful to anyone that expanded their tile sets beyond Display Board contents.
Box contents for every theme are on the BACK of the box. The front of the box is identical for every theme group, and is simply a representative sample of tiles from that theme as selected by the graphic artist.
@ Hulksmash -- The Display Board is not meant for army transport, and never was. Will it work? Maybe. The Display Board is fairly sturdy and the joints are fairly strong. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's probably doable.
I'll aim to do some lurking, but with so much going on I haven't had time to keep up with all of the forums -- not even my favorite thread on Dakka
misterjustin wrote: and that the straight creeks would be more useful to anyone that expanded their tile sets beyond Display Board contents.
Again, I'm not going to burn the house down - but that seems like a very poor reason to go with a straight creek over the more interesting (for a display board - which is what we purchased) creek bend.
People who wanted to expand sets were, I thought, mostly purchasing 8-tile sets. 4 tiles is an odd number to expand by - you could make a 6x4' table a 7x4', or a 4x4' into a 5x4'... I just don't see it. I guess you mean as alternate pieces, but again, that's not the best metric to choose based on and clearly you didn't hear from all your backers, as the first two of us here to post that we received the rolling fields display boards would have preferred the creek bend. I imagine it is true of many people, and you would have gotten better / more representative feedback by putting out an update regarding this.
So, I disagree with your decision and process here, and I will still support your company, but I hope you improve on this in the future!
8 tile sets are a Kickstarter exclusive item, and are not available for purchase outside of the campaign. I have no plans to make them available in the near future either.
All of the set content decisions were made with community feedback -- with the lone exception of the Scrap Yard and Forgotten City 16 tile sets which got 1/ea of the 16 unique tiles.
That makes sense, but I think you might get more representative community feedback in the future by actually putting out an update regarding these decisions. As an obvious example, posters following the comments after a campaign closes are the most devoted fans - therefore, they're likely to have invested more, and have more use for certain tiles added to larger sets, rather than people who simply backed for only a display board.
Personally, I just took the contents for granted... obviously a mistake here, since they changed after the fact, and were never put out as an update.
Again, I'll still support your company, but I hope the honest and hopefully constructive feedback (which is from Hulksmash as well, and I'm sure there will be others) is helpful to you for the future.
The contents were listed at some point, as I did that before the pledge manager closed, but I'll be buggered if I can find the right update at this point. There are so many now that it defies finding.
But no decision about the product was made in a vacuum, even if some details were left out of announcements.
While I'm mildly annoyed at the contents being different that what I expected I'm honestly more annoyed that the display board was never intended to be able to move armies around an event like the only other hard plastic display board out there (Battlefoam X-Board). This actually compounds the blandness. If it's designed solely for display than it's the most bland display possible.
Also I'd contend that people that are talking about needing enough room for models are the ones likely to be thinking of this as something that should be able to move stuff around a hall on. Which is wasn't designed for....
Like RiTides said. I'm not burning down the house or over the top pissed or anything. Just disappointed. And actually more disappointed since it was never mentioned that it wouldn't be designed for moving stuff around.
@ Hulksmash -- neither was it ever claimed that you COULD move models around on it. Honestly it never occurred to me because for all of the events I do I've never seen anyone pick up their display and just walk off with it.
I'm sure it happens, since you clearly do it, but I've never seen it happen so it wasn't even a thought for me.
As I said though, there's a fair chance it WILL support models in transit. I haven't tested it, and don't have time at the moment, so I can't say for sure. If nothing else a bit of poster board under it would likely solve any problems though.
Mantic sent some questions this morning - and it turns out that the data export for UK/EU backers includes characters (like a ü or è) that the mail merge didn't like, so we have to get that sorted.
We're working to get them an updated mailing list, ASAP. I will work with them to get started on what CAN ship, and then worry about the rest. Stay tuned - and expect a proper KS update when I have news.
What's the probability that I'll get my Forgotten City 6x4 set by Thursday? I'm in Davie (South Florida). I'm scared I'm going to miss Armies on Parade by like a day.
Looks like I'm slated for Monday. Trying to decide if I'm going to go out to the old place to pick it up, or try to get them to route it to the new one. I have the keys until the end of the month, and I'll need to be there to turn them in at some point next week anyway....
darefsky wrote: I havnt seen anything pop up on my fedex tracker.
Same here. I just signed up for the Fedex tracker, could that result in the tracking number not showing? If not, then my pledge likely hasn't shipped yet.
darefsky wrote: I havnt seen anything pop up on my fedex tracker.
Same here. I just signed up for the Fedex tracker, could that result in the tracking number not showing? If not, then my pledge likely hasn't shipped yet.
It took a few hours for it to show up for me, might not trigger till the next time it's scanned?
Cyporiean, that very well could be, and would make sense if the system refreshes with each scan. I don't use Fedex enough to really know the ins and outs of their system.
Are there going to be any more painting tutorials for the other sets? We got one for the urban tile set, but I thought they were doing one for each theme.
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I ordered 16 Clean and 16 Ruined myself and really can't wait for them to get here. 
