I'm looking forward to an excellent board. I've purchased from SWM on two occasions and received quality product.
If I get a few extra freebies, great! As-is, I'm paying a good price for what promises to be a quality board with some ability to change the layout from game to game.
And I always hope to avoid the what does and does not deserve to be on Kickstarter.
And in the end, Justin himself has already stated that there will be incentives and 'freebies' if the campaign gets high enough - so in the end, all will be OK!
Azazelx wrote: On this forum we're giving money up front to people so they can make toys and games that we might like to help their businesses make more money. We're not exactly donating money to cure cancer or end world hunger or so forth, so the high horse probably doesn't belong in the discussion...
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with supporting Kickstarters. I'm just saying that people who hold up supporting a KS for a gaming company to make a new toy as some kind of noble goal from on high are a bit.. shall we say, overenthusiastic.. and could possibly do with some wider perspective?
There can often be an entitlement mentality on both sides of the KS transaction, is my point. And again, this isn't directed at Justin - it's more of a counter-argument to some of what's gone on in the last few pages.
Live From ADEPTICON!
Update #19 · Apr 20, 2013 · comment
Another sleepless night in Chicago and another day of teaching hobby classes, meeting great people, and showing off the Tablescapes Tiles!
You can find the painted tile display at On The Lamb Games inside the main vendor hall, right next to the CMON booth... Which conveniently has two Secret Weapon banners atop racks with the complete SWM product catalog!
I will be at the booth until about noon today and heading down as soon as I get caught up on the comments and messages here.
I eagerly await his return from Adepticon, as we appear to be in a bit of a funk currently:
So I was trolling KS and can't believe I missed this, or this thread....
However, I very interested in the Clean Urban tiles now because of.... the Robotech KS.
I think they would make excellent tiles for that, Battletech, or DZC. Not to mention the larger scale games like Infinity.
What kind of terrain/buildings did you guys have in mind for these tiles? I know it would be a pain in the ass to make walls for 6-10mm, 15mm, and 28mm, but I see those Urban Tiles and my evil mind is swimming with ideas.
You will be getting some of my money for sure.
[Edit] To be more clear, lol.... the Urban tiles look like they are scaled to the 6-15mm size if I'm seeing them right. Is this correct and will the walls/buildings reflect that scale?
Well, a 4x4 Urban table looks like it's going to be extremely useful for Mantic's Deadzone (their plastic necromunda-style terrain will be a perfect fit for one of the boards now that I've seen it), so I'll see if I can get some cash together for both this and that.
If not, I'll definitely buy a 4x4 urban when they're released to retail.
The overly-visible gridding due to 1x1 instead of 2x2 tiles is still a major concern of mine on the more organic boards, but for an urban streets board it doesn't matter so much.
I have a question - if these are injection moulded plastic, will it be possible to glue them together using (a ton of) poly cement?
I'm wondering if I can make my own 2x2 tiles or even entire boards simply by gluing together the tiles and doing a little putty/ texture work over the seams to hide the join lines.
If this is a possibility, then I'll be a lot more interested in this. The grid lines are the only thing that bugs me and I'd be happy to sacrifice a little modularity to remove a bunch of them. IMOGW's 2x2's represent the sweet spot.
Thanks! Now to kill 4 hours or so messing with this......
I think that's everyone's reaction when they're first introduced to kicktraq . It really is addictive seeing how different campaigns have performed, etc.
I have a question - if these are injection moulded plastic, will it be possible to glue them together using (a ton of) poly cement?
I'm wondering if I can make my own 2x2 tiles or even entire boards simply by gluing together the tiles and doing a little putty/ texture work over the seams to hide the join lines.
If this is a possibility, then I'll be a lot more interested in this. The grid lines are the only thing that bugs me and I'd be happy to sacrifice a little modularity to remove a bunch of them. IMOGW's 2x2's represent the sweet spot.
It's likely that the sides are going to be sloped (at least to an extent) as you see on square bases simply because that meant they extract from the mould easier, so you'll probably need to file the edges flat to give a solid contact surface, but otherwise I don't see why not
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: It's likely that the sides are going to be sloped (at least to an extent) as you see on square bases simply because that meant they extract from the mould easier, so you'll probably need to file the edges flat to give a solid contact surface, but otherwise I don't see why not
Didn't they say they were using the same sort of multidirectional moulds Dreamforge did? If so, mould extraction shouldn't be a problem.
I eagerly await his return from Adepticon, as we appear to be in a bit of a funk currently:
It might be a bit of a similar situation that the second RBG KS found itself in now (disregarding the KS1 fulfilment issues). In that people are holding off until the items they want become available, and there's probably others who have already pledged for stretch goal items (trenches, temples, etc).
The OTL crew might have their hands on a tile... >_>
The bidding starts at 1 million dollars*
* - This is obviously a joke
But seriously, after spending all weekend with these boards, I'm so fething excited for these tiles misterjustin has an awesome product, and as many people told me this weekend, "This is something the community needed."
I just posted the Kickstarter to my local group's page, and there's some enthusiasm I intend on nurturing. We've got a bajillion flat tables and a metric ton of terrain, and these themed boards are great, and enormously cheaper than GW's lackluster "Realm of Battle," which never excited me.
If people are worried about the mid-KS funk, every KS does this. Best thing to keep it going in the center is word of mouth. Once you get a couple of buddies to pledge, it starts to show back up on popular this week, which in turn garners a few extra pledges.
So if you know anyone who would like something like this, make sure they know about it.
Spreading the word, and misterjustin had stacks on stacks of these things. One could almost literally make it rain with the number of flyers we had/were handing out. So I grabbed some to give to my Malifaux players, since many of them play other games.
Yeah, I'm hoping the Lost Desert board isn't too litter with "vehicles" and other stuff that would make too many board pieces useless for a Wild West environment, but that board is WAY down the road.
At the risk of sounding like "that guy" I have to say I was slightly underwhelmed by these at Adepticon. Now hear me out, and bear in mind Secret Weapon is pretty much my go to for basing:
1. They're really really thin and were easy to move. Now, there was only 1 on display, and I guess they're probably more durable once more are locked together, but they still seem very thin.
2. The texture was kind of shallow. I think this is probably intentional and tied to the first one, but if that's the case I think I'd almost rather play on a felt mat or something like a hotz mat.
3. Comparatively, I think the FW realm of battle boards are much nicer. They're thicker. They're loaded with more detail. And they have terrain and such built in. You pay more, sure, but they felt a bit more worth it than these (so far)
All that being said, I'm hopin some of the future ones are more inspiring. I think this is a really great idea and obviously there is a market, but like I said, I couldn't help but be just a tad underwhelmed.
cincydooley wrote: 1. They're really really thin and were easy to move. Now, there was only 1 on display, and I guess they're probably more durable once more are locked together, but they still seem very thin.
Were you talking about the ones in the Vendor hall? Because there were 3 on display, yes they're thin, they're just shy of the Nottingham Alternative, but they're solid and stable.
I was. There were two down it seems. The other was displaying the back. Whoopsies!
I don't think they were bad at all, but like I said, I was simply underwhelmed. At least the realm of battle ones give you some height and elevation. I'm reserving overall judgement until we see some new boards, but the scrap heap one didn't do it for me, especially considering if you want the wall set its basically as expensive as the RoB boards.
cincydooley wrote: I was. There were two down it seems. The other was displaying the back. Whoopsies!
I don't think they were bad at all, but like I said, I was simply underwhelmed. At least the realm of battle ones give you some height and elevation. I'm reserving overall judgement until we see some new boards, but the scrap heap one didn't do it for me, especially considering if you want the wall set its basically as expensive as the RoB boards.
You walked right by me and didn't even bother to say hello?
I'm on the right... the boards are on the left behind the young lady.
Well gak! Honesty, I stopped by the booth two or three times to get a demo and the brushfire demo was always busy!! Which is a good thing!
I talked to Cyp briefly but honestly I didn't spend a ton of time in the dealer hall. Between the team tournament and demoing for CMoN, i was pretty busy. And it sucked, because I still haven't had a demo of Brishfire!!!!!
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Alfndrate wrote: Because we were up late drinking, and early Friday morning was rough
D
Touché to that. I was slammed Friday night and pretty much all day during the 40k team.
cincydooley wrote: At the risk of sounding like "that guy" I have to say I was slightly underwhelmed by these at Adepticon. Now hear me out, and bear in mind Secret Weapon is pretty much my go to for basing:
1. They're really really thin and were easy to move. Now, there was only 1 on display, and I guess they're probably more durable once more are locked together, but they still seem very thin.
2. The texture was kind of shallow. I think this is probably intentional and tied to the first one, but if that's the case I think I'd almost rather play on a felt mat or something like a hotz mat.
3. Comparatively, I think the FW realm of battle boards are much nicer. They're thicker. They're loaded with more detail. And they have terrain and such built in. You pay more, sure, but they felt a bit more worth it than these (so far)
All that being said, I'm hopin some of the future ones are more inspiring. I think this is a really great idea and obviously there is a market, but like I said, I couldn't help but be just a tad underwhelmed.
At least I won't have to fill in skull pits on the SW tiles.
As I see it, both have their uses, and I do love me some variety.
They were certainly thinner than the RoB battle board. I don't see how that's an issue, however. Even a colossal won't bend the tiles, I'm sure. It's not like I'm going to be standing on them.
cincydooley wrote:I was. There were two down it seems. The other was displaying the back. Whoopsies!
I don't think they were bad at all, but like I said, I was simply underwhelmed. At least the realm of battle ones give you some height and elevation. I'm reserving overall judgement until we see some new boards, but the scrap heap one didn't do it for me, especially considering if you want the wall set its basically as expensive as the RoB boards.
To note though, one of the main complaints surrounding the ROB board (besides the price) was the hills.. both due to their size restricting the ability to place terrain in certain instances, and a preponderance for models to slide off them. Owning an ROB board, is this a massive problem in my experience? Not precisely, although there were a few slides I don't find it to be a chronic issue. HOWEVER: When I was asking friends etc if they thought I should buy the ROB, every one that had issue with it universally complained about the sliding issue, and the price of course. But I tend to tune the price thing at this point, I expect most purchases in this hobby to hurt lol. That's issue #1 -
Issue #2 is in practice, if you take the ROB board, unless you configure the 'hill tiles' to be a big mountain in the middle side of the board, which is kinda gakky in terms of the options, the hills offer no real effective cover whatsoever. You still need a ton of terrain with an ROB board, don't fool yourself... it's not particularly fair to say that the 8X4 table, with a full set of themed resin terrain being the same cost as the ROB board means they are equal in gaming terms. With SW, for the price, larger board, equal quality and detail or better, with full cover-offering terrain means you are effectively game ready right then and there. Rob, get ready to spring for 2 extra tiles, and a whole smack of terrain, which if you cost that all in still makes the SW a much better deal.
I don't fault you if you simply prefer the ROB board, that is entirely legitimate and I'm not going to pretend it's not a great board, but I did want to tweak some of your 'value math' there, I hope I did so in a way that seems fair and sensible.
Valhallan42nd wrote:They were certainly thinner than the RoB battle board. I don't see how that's an issue, however. Even a colossal won't bend the tiles, I'm sure. It's not like I'm going to be standing on them.
Ok, so, thinner is no issue. As has been noted, he made a point to show the back of the board, precisely to make sure it was crystal clear the thing is cross braced and reinforced like crazy, with concentric circles no less, which have omnidirectional resistance as opposed to the grid which is vulnerable to diagonal torquing. I am pretty sure you can stand on it, although I will let Justin verify that, hopefully with a vid or pic lol.
It is definitely interesting the drop off in pledges coincided precisely with the moment Justin took his Adepticon hiatus... natural mid-KS quiet period, or directly related to a brief marketing black-out? Very interesting indeed...
I also wonder how many pledgers out there are watching this to see if 'theme X' gets unlocked before pledging, but def interested in 'theme X'. I have a feeling that number may be quite siginificant, perhaps even enough to unlock another theme. If I were in line for the ruined temple theme for example, I think I would pledge immediately and withdraw if they didn't make it there... pledging now in hopes of unlocking makes it more likely to get that unlock right? I am wondering what the trick would be to directly appeal to and encourage hopeful hold-outs to get on board, KS's are very interesting indeed, like a sped-up marketing microcosm...
My concern with it being thin is that it will therefore be very "bumpable"
When I was referencing the RoB boards, I was honestly thinking of the FW ones, all of which have really great terrain built in. I should have been more specific.
cincydooley wrote: My concern with it being thin is that it will therefore be very "bumpable"
When I was referencing the RoB boards, I was honestly thinking of the FW ones, all of which have really great terrain built in. I should have been more specific.
Sorry for not being more clear!!
I think the problem with comparing these boards to the FWRoB boards is that the FW ones are fairly heavy piece of resin, and their price reflects their size and weight. For the price of a single FW tile I was able to pledge for this KS. Yes I got one of the 4x4 early birds, but you're still only 13 dollars below the regular 4x4 level. And the regular GWRoB are just as bumpable, and without clips, you're gonna bump a tile or two out of the way, and mess things up as you try and fix them.
cincydooley wrote: My concern with it being thin is that it will therefore be very "bumpable"
When I was referencing the RoB boards, I was honestly thinking of the FW ones, all of which have really great terrain built in. I should have been more specific.
Sorry for not being more clear!!
All in all, the smaller tiles (1x1) means that there is more contact with the table, as there is more edge on each piece. Then factor in the ribbing... there will be more friction if it does get bumped, so I think it would travel less. Plus, not being as tall means there's less chance of bumping the sides.
Either which, I just see most of the ROBs in frames anyway. I don't see this as any different.
I love the FW boards, I love FW period... but holy poop expensive!!!
I have the strongpoint section from them, def awesomesauce. I was also looking at the Necron one to go with my zombie-bots but I have been waffling hard on it because really, when you look at the thing as-is there isn't any real cover on it, it is effectively a hill in the corner.
Thunderhawk works for cover though...
BUT - have to remeber, these bad-boys are 90 pounds EACH, plus some hefty shipping unless you crack that 250 pound limit. That is a ginormous expense compared to SW.. and you STILL need to get more terrain for the rest of the board, and factor in the cost of the rest of the board itself of course... insanely expensive... like crazy-town expensive.
At the end of the day I am not bashing GW or FW, I own em... it's really just arithmetic though, IF the SW boards appeal to you aesthetically, there is no way to slice it that ROB is at the same price point for a full playable board, not even close. That aspect of it is really clear cut which is why I took the time to rebut in detail.
If you don't like the look of the available themes though, no one needs anymore reason than that not to buy, no matter how good a deal it is, so fair enough!
cincydooley wrote: Hehe. I'm pledged for now :-). In just hoping the future boards make me more excited than the scrap yard one did. :-).
Really curious how they plan on doing a trench with such a shallow depth on the board.
For the trench works, the tiles with trenches will be 1.5" high, with the trenches and other details recessed down - If you want to mix and match with other themes, there will be transition sloped tiles, or, one would think perhaps some form of riser could be made or created that would allow the 'normal' height tiles to be raised flush to the trenches, giving you 3 'levels' of terrain in a single board... one would think .
For the slidey issue, spot on, there is a lot of contact with the table with the smaller tiles, and to be frank it isn't all that easy to chuck the ROB board, even unframed if they are clipped properly, as one piece it isn't light, if not precisely heavy either.
The key lesson is not to goldberg spear your gaming table no matter what it is made of lol!
I think I'm just being a stick in the mud naysayer. :-).
No man, this and all the other questions/issues are completely legitimate, and frankly important to ask. Justin needs to be able to address all of these things in a legitimate, accesible way if he wants to continue to succeed, and so far, it has made me happy to see that when things came up he didn't plan for he has actually addressed them and solved most. You guys are doing him a favor, helping him make a stronger product offering. He won't be able to please every single person obviously, but you guys are helping him please most, that's a big deal!
What I'd like to see as a possible add on/stretch goal:
a series of tiles that could be a canal. I keep looking at my Pegasus bridge, and I look at that new bridge that Teutonic will be making, and I have to have an excuse to buy them.
I also wonder how many pledgers out there are watching this to see if 'theme X' gets unlocked before pledging, but def interested in 'theme X'. I have a feeling that number may be quite siginificant, perhaps even enough to unlock another theme. If I were in line for the ruined temple theme for example, I think I would pledge immediately and withdraw if they didn't make it there... pledging now in hopes of unlocking makes it more likely to get that unlock right? I am wondering what the trick would be to directly appeal to and encourage hopeful hold-outs to get on board, KS's are very interesting indeed, like a sped-up marketing microcosm...
The risk that this creates of course, is that if (say) the "ruined temple" (or whatever) theme isn't unlocked at the end of the campaign, the whole thing risks a load of pledges being pulled, which can cascade downwards in the last days as more people pull their pledges and even potentially "re-lock" previously unlocked stretch goals. We again saw some of this in the RBG2 KS with the special ranks.
A real possibility, though KS has some funky rules about letting you back out right at the end!
These numbers aren't encouraging, though as Tom noted, now that Justin's back from Adepticon we'll hopefully see some damage control/marketing/stretch goal updates/etc.
Alpharius wrote: A real possibility, though KS has some funky rules about letting you back out right at the end!
How so? The idea of them not letting me remove/drop my pledge at the last minute makes me less likely to pledge on any campaign. I don't pledge on anything with the intent of dropping out at the end, but I've had to drop right down to $1 from $100+ on one occasion and decided to on a separate occasion. (Though I've backed far more in a significant manner).
For example, the trenches here - if I were to pledge on them with the intent that I choose them on the assumption that they get unlocked, I certainly wouldn't be willing to pledge at all if there was some new contingency that I couldn't remove the pledge. There are enough risks and delays with these things after they'e been funded without adding more uncertainty beforehand, after all...
Alpharius wrote: A real possibility, though KS has some funky rules about letting you back out right at the end!
How so? The idea of them not letting me remove/drop my pledge at the last minute makes me less likely to pledge on any campaign. I don't pledge on anything with the intent of dropping out at the end, but I've had to drop right down to $1 from $100+ on one occasion and decided to on a separate occasion. (Though I've backed far more in a significant manner).
For example, the trenches here - if I were to pledge on them with the intent that I choose them on the assumption that they get unlocked, I certainly wouldn't be willing to pledge at all if there was some new contingency that I couldn't remove the pledge. There are enough risks and delays with these things after they'e been funded without adding more uncertainty beforehand, after all...
You can't drop your pledge if it would cause the campaign to go below 100% in the last 24hrs, its not that funky.
I also wonder how many pledgers out there are watching this to see if 'theme X' gets unlocked before pledging, but def interested in 'theme X'. I have a feeling that number may be quite siginificant, perhaps even enough to unlock another theme. If I were in line for the ruined temple theme for example, I think I would pledge immediately and withdraw if they didn't make it there... pledging now in hopes of unlocking makes it more likely to get that unlock right? I am wondering what the trick would be to directly appeal to and encourage hopeful hold-outs to get on board, KS's are very interesting indeed, like a sped-up marketing microcosm...
The risk that this creates of course, is that if (say) the "ruined temple" (or whatever) theme isn't unlocked at the end of the campaign, the whole thing risks a load of pledges being pulled, which can cascade downwards in the last days as more people pull their pledges and even potentially "re-lock" previously unlocked stretch goals. We again saw some of this in the RBG2 KS with the special ranks.
Very good point... I should have been clearer with like a within 10-20k mark with a reasonable expectation of reaching it... even then, obviously no one should be screwed over for making a supportive gamble. At this point though, I would comfortably be assured that the damaged cityscape will be unlocked for example. Still, def shooting from the hip on that thought lol!
Alpharius wrote:
These numbers aren't encouraging, though as Tom noted, now that Justin's back from Adepticon we'll hopefully see some damage control/marketing/stretch goal updates/etc.
I dunno... he made 175% of his goal in 10 days, with 20 to go or so... I don't think it would be quite fair to call this anything but a success... that being said, a runaway success is desirable for anyone! I think conservatively it would be safe to say that by the end of it at the least he should make it to the 'rolling fields' generic tile set.
Remember Alph, there are only a tiny handful of KS's that went and got crazy funding... most of them outright fail, everyday a few more quietly disappear. It's a slippery slope to only categorize 'success' as going 1500% above your goal... remember that some of those company's that did that well were completely and totally unprepared to deal with it. I would call any KS that hits its funding goal and then actually delivers what is promised on time a success, nothing more, nothing less!
Cyporiean wrote: You can't drop your pledge if it would cause the campaign to go below 100% in the last 24hrs, its not that funky.
IE, it has zero impact on this campaign.
It could. This is a campaign where people are not pledging for 100% funding, they're pledging for stretch goals. People who want the Scrap table are safe, but anyone else could potentially be left holding the bag if there aren't more than $80K in pledges for just that first theme.
And incidentally, that first theme is the worst theme. Modular boards are good for sunken terrain like trenches and canals, and for inherently grid-based terrain like streets. The modular scrap board forces what should be an organic terrain piece into a rigid grid pattern.
I know you guys know, but the last two days have tripled the total of some KS campaigns. It's becoming standard for many who don't get the EB specials to just wait until the end.
With the trenches, I'd try to get the numbers right to work as a 6*4 table with two 8-tile trenchworks separated by an 8 tile No Man's Land (drawn from the Rolling Fields theme).
I'd also recommend not using any cross tiles. Crossroads make sense for streets, because the point of a street is to get from point A to point B or point C to point D quickly. Crossroads do not make sense for trenches, because you want to isolate your reserve trench from your front trench, and your front trench from No Man's Land. Therefore, T-junctions would work better.
I made up a bit of a mock-up in OpenOffice of a table using sixteen unique trench tiles and eight blank No Man's Land tiles. The contents are as follows:
Cyporiean wrote: You can't drop your pledge if it would cause the campaign to go below 100% in the last 24hrs, its not that funky.
IE, it has zero impact on this campaign.
It could. This is a campaign where people are not pledging for 100% funding, they're pledging for stretch goals. People who want the Scrap table are safe, but anyone else could potentially be left holding the bag if there aren't more than $80K in pledges for just that first theme.
And incidentally, that first theme is the worst theme. Modular boards are good for sunken terrain like trenches and canals, and for inherently grid-based terrain like streets. The modular scrap board forces what should be an organic terrain piece into a rigid grid pattern.
You're mostly right, but "rolling fields and "lost desert" I'd argue are a lot less useful, as they're both something that can be easily covered by a mat. (see what I did there?) Admittedly, while these look nice enough, my geohex and GW mats and selection of green and desert hills, GM fort and various crashed terrain and scrap scenery can be arranged in more ways than a dozen tiles. All that "arrange the tiles 10,000 different ways is pretty much hype. While, yes, you do have modularity, there's realistically not a great deal of difference in swapping out 1 or 2 tiles like those shown, nor in rotating the same tiles 90°, 180° or 270°.
I don't want to sound like I'm hating, because I'm not. I just think the hyperbole is unnecessary. I may go in for clean streets or ruined streets, but I'm really keen to see the Alien Temple and especially the Trenchworks, if they happen.
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Earth Dragon wrote: I know you guys know, but the last two days have tripled the total of some KS campaigns. It's becoming standard for many who don't get the EB specials to just wait until the end.
You're right on the money. I would have gone in if there were any left, but they were all gone when the campaign started an hour before I woke up, so.. well, I'm seeing how it pans out and how my finances look at that stage. Especially with a potential 2-year wait which means at least a year...
Yes, with the early birds mostly gone it'll probably struggle on for a bit. Will likely see a massive surge at the end, like most similar things, so those of you who want higher terrain values need to just hang in there and not become self-fulfilling prophets by panicking now!
TheDungen wrote: Then they should've done something that had features on it but was usable for fantasy, the whole just sci-fi settings was a bad move.
Maybe forest floor, or medieval ruined city (hello mordheim).
Well, there are several fantasy-friendly textures - if they unlock. However, I'm a little concerned with the 1" of dirt edging that was mentioned, so I'll have to see renders at the very least.
Azazelx wrote: You're mostly right, but "rolling fields and "lost desert" I'd argue are a lot less useful, as they're both something that can be easily covered by a mat.
I'll meet you halfway on that: they're the least useful in their own right, but you need a few blank tile designs that people can use to fill in the gaps.
RiTides wrote: Yes, with the early birds mostly gone it'll probably struggle on for a bit. Will likely see a massive surge at the end, like most similar things, so those of you who want higher terrain values need to just hang in there and not become self-fulfilling prophets by panicking now!
I'd say it was less 'panic' and more 'spend money elsewhere on things I can get now vs. months from now for the same price'.
TheDungen wrote: Then they should've done something that had features on it but was usable for fantasy, the whole just sci-fi settings was a bad move.
Maybe forest floor, or medieval ruined city (hello mordheim).
Well, there are several fantasy-friendly textures - if they unlock. However, I'm a little concerned with the 1" of dirt edging that was mentioned, so I'll have to see renders at the very least.
yeah as the 200k streatchgoal.
they should have had
sci-fi
fantasy
sci-fi
fantasy
sci-fi
fantasy
sci-fi
instead of
sci-fi
sci-fi
sci-fi
fantasy
fantasy
sci-fi
fantasy
especially since 'fantasy' friendly boards can be used for sci-fi too, but not the other way around.
RiTides wrote: Yes, with the early birds mostly gone it'll probably struggle on for a bit. Will likely see a massive surge at the end, like most similar things, so those of you who want higher terrain values need to just hang in there and not become self-fulfilling prophets by panicking now!
I'd say it was less 'panic' and more 'spend money elsewhere on things I can get now vs. months from now for the same price'.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: That would make sense if sci-if and fantasy had the same tabletop following. They do not however. The money's in sci-fi. At least in the US.
While true in the US I don't hold that as a universal constant i also doubt that sci-fi is twice as big as fantasy. And i conceded in letting sci-fi go first and have one more in my list . in fact I just reordered their list, also fantasy players are usually older and have more money.
If SF boards will be his bread and butter, it makes sense to finance them first, and have the lower selling items come in later.
As was previously mentioned, a green felt mat seems to cover many fantasy players' needs...
And a brown one covers scifi players needs.
It would be nice for something usable in fantasy games was closer up, Espically since scifi players could easily use them and Historical players might be able to as well, but I don't think there is much that can be done about that now.
Nice try, and I know you love to play a Contrarian role at times, but I have to think that you know what I mean, and that a SF-themed board will be a much bigger seller than a Fantasy themed one, especially as the Big Game for Fantasy requires lots of flat, open spaces...
Alpharius wrote: Nice try, and I know you love to play a Contrarian role at times, but I have to think that you know what I mean, and that a SF-themed board will be a much bigger seller than a Fantasy themed one, especially as the Big Game for Fantasy requires lots of flat, open spaces...
psh, there are more fantasy games than just FFFantasy
I've currently got 2 4x2 mdf boards and I cover them with the GW grass mat. I have terrain for the boards, and I play on them with no issue... I'd just like something that gives me the option of something else. Currently my table always tends to look the same.
if the "generic" and more fantasy boards/non sci-fi boards don't get funded, I'll have an urban street set for something else down the road
Except sci-fi players can use 'fantasy' board too, in fact i usually prefer fantasy aestitics for my sci-fi boards anyway. my fallen look way better holding some temple than some apartment building or a warehouse in the suburbs.
Alpharius wrote: Nice try, and I know you love to play a Contrarian role at times, but I have to think that you know what I mean, and that a SF-themed board will be a much bigger seller than a Fantasy themed one, especially as the Big Game for Fantasy requires lots of flat, open spaces...
Well, states-side that's Warmachine.. which works great with all sorts of terrain. While WHFB loves wide open spaces, it would work well in a ruined or untouched city, just with cobblestone streets.
Surely the imperium has a world or two with cobblestone streets?
Anyway, lets just stay positive, we're almost to the ruined streets and Justin should be here soon with new pics
Anyway, I'm not sure that I want to be rolling dice across a plastic surface - I'd love to see (and hear!) a video of that!
Can you wait for tonight? I'll test it for you.
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Alpharius wrote: I'm pretty sure that Justin's market research must have already told him the same thing (SF > F) due to the way he set this Kickstarter up...
Probably also based it on what he has available with his other lines as well . At AdeptiCon he had a few fantasy bases, but the majority of things were for Sci-Fi type games (flight decks, etc...), and pieces of the scatter terrain already exist, and he's selling them through this for a bit cheaper than the prices I saw at AdeptiCon
Anyway, I'm not sure that I want to be rolling dice across a plastic surface - I'd love to see (and hear!) a video of that!
Can you wait for tonight? I'll test it for you.
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Alpharius wrote: I'm pretty sure that Justin's market research must have already told him the same thing (SF > F) due to the way he set this Kickstarter up...
Probably also based it on what he has available with his other lines as well . At AdeptiCon he had a few fantasy bases, but the majority of things were for Sci-Fi type games (flight decks, etc...), and pieces of the scatter terrain already exist, and he's selling them through this for a bit cheaper than the prices I saw at AdeptiCon
I'd also be interested in this test as I'd like to know how dice perform on the tiles
Anyway, I'm not sure that I want to be rolling dice across a plastic surface - I'd love to see (and hear!) a video of that!
Can you wait for tonight? I'll test it for you.
I can indeed wait - and thank you VERY much for doing this!
No problem, I was with them all weekend and I didn't think of doing this (also didn't have the time ). I'll take a video and upload it to youtube and link it here. Someone just send me a PM right about 5:30pm Eastern to remind me.
I think we need some stretch goal free stuff. Some bases matching the table you pledged, or a small piece of terrain, would help push the bang for buck value up, as well as hopefully get some folks hooked on said products.
I vote for exchanging Ruined Temple and Rolling Field stretch goals. And making Ruined Temple half alien themed, half overgrown. Because generic fields are rather boring to me and maybe many other potential backers.
It is definitely interesting the drop off in pledges coincided precisely with the moment Justin took his Adepticon hiatus... natural mid-KS quiet period, or directly related to a brief marketing black-out? Very interesting indeed...
I also wonder how many pledgers out there are watching this to see if 'theme X' gets unlocked before pledging, but def interested in 'theme X'. I have a feeling that number may be quite siginificant, perhaps even enough to unlock another theme. If I were in line for the ruined temple theme for example, I think I would pledge immediately and withdraw if they didn't make it there... pledging now in hopes of unlocking makes it more likely to get that unlock right? I am wondering what the trick would be to directly appeal to and encourage hopeful hold-outs to get on board, KS's are very interesting indeed, like a sped-up marketing microcosm...
Well, I want the Ruined Temple board, however I really Really did not like the rough drafts that were shown. I want medieval cobblestone/tile Temple, transplanted to a jungle and ravaged by time, not ravaged by war or defiled. So, it really depends on how the concept turns out.
The price is no issue, I have a 4'x8' RoB, and a 4'x6' FW board. I just want something different from those. The Scrapyard is great, I personally hope to be able to buy the one big junk pile tile, but the overall board doesn't speak to me. Great for Ork players, as that is how GW has thematically styled them. They collect junk and then make stuff out of it. From armor to rides to Kroozers.
The roads are great also, but a board that I want either. When Justin gets to multi-level boards, i.e. rivers and canals, then the roads my be something to buy. But I don't think they'd be tall enough to mate up with some canal section tiles. The plains sections are needed to give people pretty much blank tiles. But I already have enough blank on the RoB, and I painted mine desert themed, so no need for the desert tiles from SW.
So I am holding out for the Ruined Temple, but don't want to be a douche and pledge just to pull it at the end if it doesn't reach what I really wanted. But even if we get to it, it Really depends on what the concept looks like.
Project Update #20: The Post-Adepticon Update OF DOOM!
Posted by Secret Weapon Like
Hello Kickstarter! I can't begin to tell you how happy I am to be updating again -- and I have a big one for you today. You see, all sorts of goodies were piling up while I was chained to the classroom desks at Adepticon... and now I'm going to open the floodgates!
First up I have the proof-of-concept renders for the four of the clean "Urban Streets" tiles. These aren't finalized, of course, but they are official tile files and will eventually become the finished product.
There is a wee bit of damage on each tile, but nothing that you won't see by walking outside today and looking at your streets. I'm going to be asking for som e minor changes -- like a bit of circular cracking around the manhole cover as I've never seen one without it. The second foundation tile will also be a proper building foundation instead of a park square tile -- so that between the two designs you have the most possible flexibility.
But we can't stop there -- now it's time for the initial damaged "Urban Streets" concepts. This is another proof-of-concept step so that we can get a handle on what we do and don't like. We're going to give the same treatment to the ruined tiles to and play them against each other.
You'll note in the concepts that none of the damage crosses a tile edge though -- this is intentional so that transitions to clean tiles work without having an abrupt change.
BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!
People have been asking me about storage and transportation since we launched... and now I can give you ANOTHER proof-of-concept image... this time a photo of the tile spacers!
These bad boys will fit into the compression bracket and allow you to stack the tiles vertically inside the box (or bag, I'm coming to that) with little risk of damaging the tiles. We've held them back as we need to get a handle on how many sizes are going to be required to meet the needs of the various tile thicknesses. Right now it looks like we can do 3 sizes but it won't be finalized until the finished tile files are sent to the factory.
So there you have it - a safe way to store the tiles in their box... or in a fancy, fancy bag from Battle Foam!
I had a chance to catch up with Romeo at Adepticon and go through the tile designs and requirements. He's looking at making the bag front-loading, so you can slide in the tile stacks, and will be playing with a full stack of 16 tiles for his concept work. He will also receive the fortification resin pieces (like the Scrap Yard walls) so that he can cut custom foam for each set.
BUT! This means we're going to have to offer the bag at the end of the Kickstarter -- and likely offer bags specific to certain themes. This is because a set like "Rolling Fields" can use a MUCH smaller bag than "Trench Works" would need. Each bag will be clearly identified for which the mes it's compatible with however, and the goal is to use the zip system on the bottom to attach terrain bags.
AMAZING!
Of course I can't stop there -- because I haven't given you a proper update in DAYS and I'm suffering from wicked withdraws. So let me finish by saying that the files for our clean "Urban Streets" walls have been sent to the printer and I'm hoping to have them in molds before the end of the month. I will use those masters to create the damaged set, and we're already at work finalizing concepts for the scatter terrain.
SO VERY, VERY AMAZING!
We're getting very close to unlocking the damaged/ruined "Urban Streets' tiles, and I'm hoping to have concept art for the "Rolling Hills" shortly... WHICH WILL INCLUDE CREEK TILES! Well, at least the concept art will -- and give us time to make sure they work before we send the tile files off to the factory.
Thank you all for your continued enthusiasm and support. I'm going to try and get ca ught up on the comments now and keep the ball rolling.
MisterJustin posted in the update comments that the tile spacers will come with the tile sets as as part of your pledge level they aren't an extra purchase - unless you want to buy more.
Kroothawk wrote: I vote for exchanging Ruined Temple and Rolling Field stretch goals. And making Ruined Temple half alien themed, half overgrown. Because generic fields are rather boring to me and maybe many other potential backers.
I'd prefer if they make the Ruined Temple one solid theme. Overgrowth with some arcane undertones. The Promethian level at the end of Mass Effect fit that bill, and really could have been a battlefield for sci-fi and fantasy settings
Automatically Appended Next Post: And on the bags, hopefully you get that all hashed out before the end of the KS and get them posted with KS as themes unlock. That would really increase your pledge amount.
From earlier in the thread is seems the tiles that are up already are slightly lower then the ROB boards, but could be raised up with foamcore of whatwever if you want
some of the later tile sets (trenches) will vary in height so with others sloping to allow for this so may or may not fit depending
Kroothawk wrote: I vote for exchanging Ruined Temple and Rolling Field stretch goals. And making Ruined Temple half alien themed, half overgrown. Because generic fields are rather boring to me and maybe many other potential backers.
I'd prefer if they make the Ruined Temple one solid theme. Overgrowth with some arcane undertones. The Promethian level at the end of Mass Effect fit that bill, and really could have been a battlefield for sci-fi and fantasy settings
If only there are no Roman columns, as these stop Eldar, DE, Tau, Necron, modern SciFi, High and Dark Elf players from buying these. Stick to Alien temple, add overgrowth to some, and people will be inspired by that terrain.
Necros wrote:Would be great if they were the same height as the 2 flat ROB boards for folks that want to mix & match.
EB specials have been opening up today with what appears to be raised pledges (as the backer total isn't dropping).
It does pay to check back in on these things throughout the KS. All the ones I follow have moments of shifting pledge levels where you can grab those EBs here and there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If by "Stick to Alien temple" you mean stick to "metallic" looking structures, I will have to pass on the board. That is far too limiting, and I feel less inspiring. But if you just want "pyrimid" type structures versus "pillars", that's what I'm thinking anyway. Stoney pyramid is by far the most emcompassing type terrain. As far as ruined temple goes anyway.
Alpharius wrote: Nice - and WAY better sounding and acting than I thought they would be!
Thanks for doing this for us!
No problem, I know that we had a lot of people come into our booth at AdeptiCon and oogle the product and get close and inspect it. But I have a blank tile, and I likes what I gots, so if I can help people feel a little more confident about the product, then why not? I'm sure misterjustin doesn't mind a little extra help either
Edit: Please excuse the nasally-ness of my voice or any breathing you hear... I picked up the plague at AdeptiCon, so I'm trying to recover from that.
I have yet to chip my ROB board, if you properly prime it with a few coats and seal it after, it should be pretty ok... nothing is impervious... frankly I would worry less about the dice and more about people sliding their minis instead of lifting them...
That being said, whoever designed those sexy Adepticon dice is a genius and a gentleman.
MajorTom11 wrote: I have yet to chip my ROB board, if you properly prime it with a few coats and seal it after, it should be pretty ok... nothing is impervious... frankly I would worry less about the dice and more about people sliding their minis instead of lifting them...
That being said, whoever designed those sexy Adepticon dice is a genius and a gentleman.
And next you're going to tell us he's a mod with a custom Storm Raven, and took second place with a Contemptor at last year's Crystal Brush, and may be from America's hat
Update out regarding a switch from 16 unique tiles down to sets of 8. THis would allow us to get to other stuff faster, only Trenches would remain a 16 tiles set.
Backers, have your say on KS before tomorrow morning (I would guess EST).
I replied that the Urban street sets should be combined at least to make way for other themes that people want. Rolling fields applies to a wider customer base, and the sooner that is unlocked the sooner those customers will pledge.
Aerethan wrote: I replied that the Urban street sets should be combined at least to make way for other themes that people want. Rolling fields applies to a wider customer base, and the sooner that is unlocked the sooner those customers will pledge.
They were split so that they would be achieved in stages. If combined it would be the same level for the other stuff (it was more so that you could select them independently)
Aerethan wrote: I replied that the Urban street sets should be combined at least to make way for other themes that people want. Rolling fields applies to a wider customer base, and the sooner that is unlocked the sooner those customers will pledge.
They were split so that they would be achieved in stages. If combined it would be the same level for the other stuff (it was more so that you could select them independently)
He says that if the sets were done in 8's instead of 16's that both Urban Street sets would be paid for already. I just want my rolling fields already.
Kroothawk wrote: Not sure I want dice rolling on painted terrain, chipping off paint, though.
Just to throw in, the FLGS I use to go to had two realm of battle boards that were heavily used. I never saw any paint chipping from dice rolling. The paint and flock held up pretty good.
What I did see was that alot of the paint on the corners/edges of the tiles wore down to the bare plastic. I think that might of been from being packed and unpacked into it's GW bags on a regular biases/at the end of every night and getting rough handled alot in the process.
I've currently got 2 4x2 mdf boards and I cover them with the GW grass mat. I have terrain for the boards, and I play on them with no issue... I'd just like something that gives me the option of something else. Currently my table always tends to look the same.
if the "generic" and more fantasy boards/non sci-fi boards don't get funded, I'll have an urban street set for something else down the road
For Fantasy, I'd suggest that the road to more variation would be to purchase more scenery. I imagine that it'll give you more options than "rolling fields" will, unless that theme strongly features a depressed creek/river/stream with a ford. I picked up a few GF9 ruined temple kits recently that work perfectly for both Fantasy and sci-fi and also can be swapped out for huts/houses/trees/jungles/hills/walls/fences/hedges and forests.
This is why I'd bump "ruined temple" up before "rolling fields" and leave plains and desert as the final pair. The Temple would (probably? possibly?) work well for both fantasy and sci-fi and give a different feel to a mat in a more significant way than the other two mentioned.
I've managed to read all of the comments posted since I left for Adepticon, but there's no way I can reply to each of them. I will pick out a couple of biggies.
Sci-Fi vs. Fantasy Themes -- it was originally:
Sci-Fi
Sci-Fi
Fantasy
Fantasy
Sci-Fi
Fantasy
That's a 3/3 split -- but when we broke "Urban Streets" into two smaller goals it created the appearance of imbalance. Of course it has already been pointed out that the market for sci-fi boards is larger, and while a simpler fantasy set might have universal appeal I haven't seen that to be the case.
The Mid-Campaign Lull
In large part because this is a no-freebies Kickstarter (for now, folks have already posted about the 500k freebie madness I would have) I'm stuck fighting the wild success paradigm that Kickstarter has become. But comments are perfectly correct that I'm only promising what I know I can deliver -- and because I'm still liable for a HUGE chunk of the cost on every successful stretch-goal there isn't a lot of room for me to give away goodies.
Instead I could have said I needed $120k or more for the first goal and used that extra to fund freebies... but that's some-and-mirrors, and I'm much more interested in frank transparency.
And now, as Wednesday is the day I spend out with my son, I'm going to take him to the park and then the zoo. An update has been posted, I'm waiting on new art, and I'll have more to share tonight and tomorrow as we keep pushing for the next stretch-goal.
Project Update #23: Urban Streets - The Roads Debate
Posted by Secret Weapon Like
Wait, the size of the roads in the "Urban Streets" sets gets an update all to itself? Yes. Yes, it does. This is probably the hottest topic in the comments section and so I'm breaking it out, with a graphic, so that folks have a place to share their thoughts without getting lost in the flow of general campaign comments.
And so, without further ado, I give you... THE ROADS GRAPHIC!
This breaks down the size of the roads with a variety of Warhammer 40k vehicles, and the more common round lip base sizes.
You will notice that at 8" (20cm) the road only just accommodates the largest vehicles -- and while the 120mm base has room to spa re, thought has to be given for things like the arms on a Warmachine Colossus, and your ability to get to your models without knocking over buildings on either side of the road.
The sidewalks only just accommodate a 50mm base, meaning that your heavy trooper models and Warjacks will completely block that avenue if there's a building on one side, and anything in the road.
While the road itself is very wide on the table, at scale it also represents an urban 4 lane street, each at 8' wide (2.44 meters) and just about right. Could we go smaller to create a denser road? Yes, absolutely -- but then we'd create problems for people gaming with vehicles, as mentioned above. If you're gaming without vehicles the scatter terrain can easily be used to fill in the gaps and give your models some cover.
And that's only part of the debate that went into settling on 8" roads --- but have a look at the first renders for a taste of how it will work on the table.
If they're not going to do a 90 degree turn, then I really think they should exchange one of the straights for another tiled non-road tile. It's just going to look like a speedway if there are too many road sections. Not like an urban area at all.
Looking at the road tile render a bit more I think the awkwardness of having a road run right into a tile panel (like the crossroad does) could be solved with a simple press mold to build a bit of a curb for the park tile. It probably wouldn't be too ambitious to use a similar idea to just cover up an entire section of the crossroad with some sidewalk to turn it into a straight piece or an L-bend.
MajorTom11 wrote:I wouldn't know, but I did hear men want to be him and women want to be with him, also, he smells like mahogany and leatherbound books.
It's true. The man should at least be bald or a donkey-cave to give us poor bastards a chance at being as awesome.
Lansirill wrote: Looking at the road tile render a bit more I think the awkwardness of having a road run right into a tile panel (like the crossroad does) could be solved with a simple press mold to build a bit of a curb for the park tile. It probably wouldn't be too ambitious to use a similar idea to just cover up an entire section of the crossroad with some sidewalk to turn it into a straight piece or an L-bend.
I'm going to quote this for truth, I'm not sure exactly how feasible it is, but I love the idea! That would be so useful because having that crossroad lead to nothing is something that bugs me a little... I know it can just be rearranged in a different way but I think having a crossroad form a part of every set up maybe a little too limiting, so I love the idea of making a separate piece to cover it...
H.B.M.C. wrote: If they're not going to do a 90 degree turn, then I really think they should exchange one of the straights for another tiled non-road tile. It's just going to look like a speedway if there are too many road sections. Not like an urban area at all.
Except you're only get 2 straights in each 8 tile set. I really think that this would make a great 24 tile set if he doubled the 8 tile set, then offered 4 more "building" tiles and 2 more straights and 2 plain pieces.
Also, I think you're totally missing out on tie-in stuff Justin, you should be 'marketing' a set of 6 manhole cover resin bases for objective markers for those playing 40k. I don't know what Infinity related markers you could offer.
I imagine you could also offer similar junk inspired objective markers for scrapyard. I really like your current set of 5 objective markers, but really wish I had a sixth one...
H.B.M.C. wrote: If they're not going to do a 90 degree turn, then I really think they should exchange one of the straights for another tiled non-road tile. It's just going to look like a speedway if there are too many road sections. Not like an urban area at all.
Except you're only get 2 straights in each 8 tile set. I really think that this would make a great 24 tile set if he doubled the 8 tile set, then offered 4 more "building" tiles and 2 more straights and 2 plain pieces.
Also, I think you're totally missing out on tie-in stuff Justin, you should be 'marketing' a set of 6 manhole cover resin bases for objective markers for those playing 40k. I don't know what Infinity related markers you could offer.
I imagine you could also offer similar junk inspired objective markers for scrapyard. I really like your current set of 5 objective markers, but really wish I had a sixth one...
I was just asking about adding in straights and stuff. It sounds like after these have shipped, they'll offer boosters and expansions for all themes. So you'll be able to buy more straights without buying whole bundles eventually.
While individual tiles won't be available until after all of the pledges have shipped, I'm working to draw more attention to the add-on items...
Because you CAN order bases as an add-on to your pledge. Likewise the scatter terrain. Unfortunately at the moment the main page only has the menu with a single photo for each item, because adding one of each would throw 20-30 new photos up!
misterjustin wrote: While individual tiles won't be available until after all of the pledges have shipped, I'm working to draw more attention to the add-on items...
Because you CAN order bases as an add-on to your pledge. Likewise the scatter terrain. Unfortunately at the moment the main page only has the menu with a single photo for each item, because adding one of each would throw 20-30 new photos up!
I've upped my pledge to include some bases. Might be worth adding some more photos of bases, etc/a more prominent mention that you're offering them as addons with a 10% discount.
misterjustin wrote: While individual tiles won't be available until after all of the pledges have shipped, I'm working to draw more attention to the add-on items...
Because you CAN order bases as an add-on to your pledge. Likewise the scatter terrain. Unfortunately at the moment the main page only has the menu with a single photo for each item, because adding one of each would throw 20-30 new photos up!
Are we able to add tank traps and the concrete barriers on your website as add-ons at 10% off? I'd throw a few of those into my pledge if it was an option. Ditto some of the washes and pigments. Not sure if it would be possible to do as part of this project, but I'd love to see how you paint/weather the boards and terrain pieces (photos or video). A set of washes and weathering powders that went back to each theme would also be a great add-on item.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If they're not going to do a 90 degree turn, then I really think they should exchange one of the straights for another tiled non-road tile. It's just going to look like a speedway if there are too many road sections. Not like an urban area at all.
Complete disagreement with you there. You could easily plonk this on top of a straight (leaving the footpath) and Bob's your mother's brother. - While maintaining the flexibility of swapping in another road space.
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misterjustin wrote: While individual tiles won't be available until after all of the pledges have shipped, I'm working to draw more attention to the add-on items...
Because you CAN order bases as an add-on to your pledge. Likewise the scatter terrain. Unfortunately at the moment the main page only has the menu with a single photo for each item, because adding one of each would throw 20-30 new photos up!
Then link from the KS page to your blog with pics of them all. It would be foolish to not show everything that's being offered as part of the KS, as add-one, or whatever.
8" wide roads on 12" wide tiles finally give me an excuse to get the awesome Technobridge from Pegasus Hobbies I've always had my eye on, which happens to also be 8"x12":
Now all we need is some decent river tiles in the 'Rolling Field' theme.
Well not a mile wide river, no, but a decent sized canal or creek should work fine and look good doing it - 6-8" wide or so? Enough to be an obstacle for ground vehicles and infantry, but easy enough for skimmers, jump infantry etc to pass.
And that would finally let Chimeras use their Ampibious rule.
You're right! What I saw as a third straight is actually an even-more-unnecessary second T-junction.
No. We don't need 2 T-Junctions per 8. That's even worse given how unnatural it looks when the road just stops and the paving begins without any curb (like that render shows).
Redemption wrote: 8" wide roads on 12" wide tiles finally give me an excuse to get the awesome Technobridge from Pegasus Hobbies I've always had my eye on, which happens to also be 8"x12":
I have no problem with roads being "ended" by the pavement on an adjacent tile, just makes it look like a cul-de-sac, which there are plenty of spread across the UK *shrugs*
Would would be more important to me would be whether road pieces for the other surfaces and/or transitional road elements would get done between different styles of surface.
Redemption wrote: 8" wide roads on 12" wide tiles finally give me an excuse to get the awesome Technobridge from Pegasus Hobbies I've always had my eye on, which happens to also be 8"x12":
plastictrees wrote: Nice to see more options from more sources, seems like gamers choices are expanding every day.
This isn't for me though, at least not with the texture shown. Something like a streetscape or a ship interior that's more of a pain to scratch build would get my attention.
Go look at the stretch-goal unlocks. There is already a streetscape unlocked, and you are able to choose it when picking your tiles for the kickstarter. He says in the video that there are going to be quite a few different board types to be available.
I'm surprised that there are so many people who have commented on the lack of variety, an obviously haven't actually looked at the kickstarter. No offense to anybody, I'm just sayian. (see what I did there?)
Is that a river I spy there?Whatever it is, a little concerned that the likely shapes are two "L"s of river or one "U", since you don't have enough straights to make a zig-zag through the board.
If it looks like it'll work as an arid landscape, I'll probably end up going with that one...
On The Lamb Games are backing for 3 sets so it's in everyone's interest. It costs nothing to send out a pdf might encourage a few new backers and On The Lamb might end up with extra sales of their own game plus they get to unlock further designs for their 3 choices if it brings more backers SWMs way.
DaveC wrote: On The Lamb Games are backing for 3 sets so it's in everyone's interest. It costs nothing to send out a pdf might encourage a few new backers and On The Lamb might end up with extra sales of their own game plus they get to unlock further designs for their 3 choices if it brings more backers SWMs way.
Yeah, I told Justin I can't give him any additional funds, but I can at least give some support.
It seems like there's another game company interested in seeing those rolling fields happen too, for their own nefarious reasons. I wonder who it could be?
Necros wrote: It seems like there's another game company interested in seeing those rolling fields happen too, for their own nefarious reasons. I wonder who it could be?
The town of Blackwater is near a small creek, isn't it?
You're right! What I saw as a third straight is actually an even-more-unnecessary second T-junction.
No. We don't need 2 T-Junctions per 8. That's even worse given how unnatural it looks when the road just stops and the paving begins without any curb (like that render shows).
One option is to set it up like extra parking for a building on the next tile over.
I'm not too worried considering we'll be getting more straight road pieces down the line. In the very least ill get some tiles for the new deadzone game if they come out with gridless rules.
Kroothawk wrote: I vote for exchanging Ruined Temple and Rolling Field stretch goals. And making Ruined Temple half alien themed, half overgrown. Because generic fields are rather boring to me and maybe many other potential backers.
I'd prefer if they make the Ruined Temple one solid theme. Overgrowth with some arcane undertones. The Promethian level at the end of Mass Effect fit that bill, and really could have been a battlefield for sci-fi and fantasy settings
If only there are no Roman columns, as these stop Eldar, DE, Tau, Necron, modern SciFi, High and Dark Elf players from buying these. Stick to Alien temple, add overgrowth to some, and people will be inspired by that terrain.
Agreed with the above!
MajorTom11 wrote: I wouldn't know, but I did hear men want to be him and women want to be with him, also, he smells like mahogany and leatherbound books.
Earth Dragon wrote: Looks like the KS got a bit of a boost last hour. Almost to 150k.
It's gonna take numbers on this one to all those different themes people want.
OK, I added $15 to my pledge, takes it to $150K even.
Now we need lots more folks to do something similar, I want my trenches. My DKoK are quite far down the queue for painting, so if they're going to get done sooner, I need a reason to move them up.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just like the roads. Too much detail and it becomes cluttered and unnatural.
Not exactly "rolling" or "fields" there. It's pretty much More 40k-friendly - or Mordheim/Fantasy-Skirmish etc than large scale battle. Got to agree with HMBC though, too much stuff happening for "rolling fields" and having stuff in the middle of each tile just makes it look, well, tiled, repetitive, cluttered and unnatural. (no matter how much you rotate the "crater" tile)
Alpharius wrote: I want trenches, urban and rolling hills too...
But I don' think this one is going to take off until the 'freebie' Incentive Add-Ons etc. get announced.
I'm personally not worried about the freebies so much. It's the long (1-2+ year) wait that something like the trenches will take that's putting me off. There's not much of a price break to incentivise paying that far upfront, even if that theme is safely unlocked by that stage without my help.
Aerethan wrote: Wait, so do I (wargamer level) get the Brushfire PDF?
I'm always down for new rules, and I know nothing about the game.
Everyone who backs get it, once the Rolling Hills are unlocked
Nice. I'd even dare to say that if I like the rules and story I'll end up buying some models for it(if only to paint). A nice low cost cross promotion that adds in value to the KS. Love it.
Those same 2 craters repeated 4x on every board are going to get really old, really fast... it would be better to go with variations of the plain tile with slight variations in surface texture.
The river is really great, but it would benefit from looking a bit more rounded and a lot less "right angle corner".
So tempted by this as we get closer to the bigger stretch goals...I would love 4x4 worth of tiles to swap out the hill on my realm of battle board...either trench works or a ruined temple would be ideal, but I fear for their availability
Those same 2 craters repeated 4x on every board are going to get really old, really fast... it would be better to go with variations of the plain tile with slight variations in surface texture.
The river is really great, but it would benefit from looking a bit more rounded and a lot less "right angle corner".
Enough pieces to go across the entire board would be good. Perhaps with fewer craters as the trade-off. 2 straights and 2 right-angle corners isn't really an ideal river/stream/gulch.
Azazelx wrote: Enough pieces to go across the entire board would be good. Perhaps with fewer craters as the trade-off. 2 straights and 2 right-angle corners isn't really an ideal river/stream/gulch.
I asked about more river tiles on their facebook page, SWM had this to say:
Secret Weapon Miniatures wrote:We might swap out a flat tile for another river - so that a 16 tile set includes 4 straight river tiles. Discussing it presently, in fact....
Damaged "Urban Streets" -- FULLY FUNDED!
Update #29 · Apr 27, 2013 · 2 comments
We have officially unlocked all 16 unique tiles for the "Urban Streets" theme -- giving you three options for this set: Clean, Damaged, or Mixed.
The designer is cranking away on the first round of renders so you can see the damaged tiles in 3D as soon as possible. I hope to have those to share with you shortly -- as well as a first look at some of the scatter terrain for "Urban Streets"
The 3D printed masters for the fortifications have shipped and I will have them in molds next week, which means there's a good chance you'll be able to preview a set in resin before the end of the month.
This is the first concept for the "Urban Streets" gate -- although I've asked for a version where the gate opens down instead of in. But I wanted to share this so you can see the progress we're making on finalizing everything.
Of course we already have some of the "Urban Streets" scatter terrain in the shop now -- and you'll be able to add it to your pledge at 20% off of MSRP!
Pledge Calculator - INCOMING!
A lot of people have asked me for an easy way to calculate their pledge -- complete with the KS reward level AND all of the SWM goodies they can manage to get at 20% off during the campaign. I'm testing a simple Google spreadsheet and should have it posted for you this weekend. It includes almost the entire SWM catalog at 20% off of MSRP, including the already discounted pigment and wash bundles!
TWO WEEKS TO GO!
We still have two weeks before the campaign wraps up -- which means there's plenty of time to unlock "Rolling Fields" and keep new themes coming!
Realized that I really don't do enough gaming outside of the gaming store to warrant this kind of expense... dropping out of my early bird skirmisher at 12:15 PST (a couple minutes from now), if any dakka-ites want to jump in.
Best of luck to SW, it's a very nice project but out of my budget for now...
Update #30 · Apr 27, 2013 · 5 comments
The Pledge Calculator is here!
Many of you have asked for an easy way to calculate your total pledge with the available add-on items -- and I've found a quick solution that should do the trick.
2) Save a copy - you won't be able to edit the original, of course.
3) Edit your copy to reflect your reward level, and then enter a quantity for any of the add-on items you would like to purchase. Your total will appear at the bottom of the spreadsheet.
4) Click on the "Manage Your Pledge" button at the top of the Kickstarter page:
5) Counting only the total of your add-on items from the existing SWM catalog (any category that does NOT have "Kickstarter" in the heading) add the appropriate shipping value. These items will ship to you separately from your pledge from our California warehouse, and not from our international partners.
6) Input the new amount for your pledge by clicking on the $value box, select your appropriate reward level, and then click "Next."
7) Approve the changes and you're good to go!
Thank you!
I have been overwhelmed (literally) by the number of emails and messages I have received asking me how people can pledge more money to the campaign. The enthusiasm for this project is amazing and every time I sit down to catch-up again I do so with a smile on my face. You people are wonderful and together we're going to bring an amazing product to market. Thank you.
Updated Concept Art - Urban Streets - Gate
The gate for "Urban Streets" should finish up at 8" wide, with a 5" wide swing arm. This will allow you to completely block one of the street sections. I have also asked for a 2" wide wall section so you can add them to the sidewalks and use a roadway as a choke-point. The spotlight in the picture will be an optional piece and I hope to offer a variety of goodies for the top of the gate walls.
Bring on "Rolling Fields!"
We've already seen a healthy jump in pledges since we broke $160,000 this morning (and fully funded "Urban Streets!") which means we're on track for unlocking "Rolling Fields."
I will be finalizing the concepts for the theme this weekend and making sure it's going to work as a 16 tile set. The 3D artists are cranking away on the "Urban Streets" tiles and scatter terrain, and the walls are already printed.
We have 15 days left in the campaign -- and new backers joining us every day.
Next week... a preview of the bag from KR Multi-Case!
spiralingcadaver wrote: Realized that I really don't do enough gaming outside of the gaming store to warrant this kind of expense...
That's the only thing keeping me from pledging (other than available funds). I usually game in stores and don't have need of gaming tiles really... but obviously, many people game in their houses or like to have a gaming table there "just in case", so there's a big market for it
And I'm back. It's getting to be impossible to keep up with everything, but I keep trying!
To the "Rolling Fields" commenters....
THIS IS THE INITIAL CONCEPT ART!
We have not finalized any of the 3D artwork, or the tile mix for the 16 tile set. You can be sure that there will be enough creek to cross a 4' table.
Also, there's no crater. One tile will have a raised rock feature -- not a crater -- but that's the challenge of representing 3D artwork on a rough 2D plate. Likewise to anyone concerned about there being "too much detail" -- don't be. It's going to use our universal dirt pattern and be very simple. That's what people have asked for and it's what we're going to deliver.
Rolling fields will only include 8 unique tile designs, so it's going to be more repetitive than any of the full theme sets. As it's mostly organic it won't be as noticeable, however, especially once you add in all of the scatter terrain and other goodies.
We're making good progress and still have more than two weeks left in the campaign. If you've been waiting for one of the three fantasy themes... JUMP IN!
And now I'll crawl back into my shell and try to keep everything coordinated
Hey, this to to both SWM and Brushfire, but since Brushfire is going to be at the CMON Expo, will they happen to have one of your tiles on hand? I couldn't make it to Adepticon, but I'll be in Atlanta for CMON's Expo. Thanks.
Salacious Greed wrote: Hey, this to to both SWM and Brushfire, but since Brushfire is going to be at the CMON Expo, will they happen to have one of your tiles on hand? I couldn't make it to Adepticon, but I'll be in Atlanta for CMON's Expo. Thanks.
I'm afraid that Alfndrate has the tile Justin left in possession of OTLG, and I don't believe he is coming down to CMON Expo. I'll see if Alf can mail it south for the show when I talk with him again on Monday.
Dinamarth wrote: What are you pledgers going with; Clean, Damaged, or Mixed Urban Streets? I can't decide.
If I was getting the streets, I'd go 'Mini-Wargamer' and get the mixed set. I think it'd be nice to be able to easily switch between clean and damaged tiles on a 4x4 board.
What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
Plastic is the most expensive material to produce products in for all intents and purposes. The cost of just milling the steel molds alone for each theme is $80000. Justin is literally asking for each KS to cover the tooling costs and that's it.
This does not take into account R&D, design, sculpting, testing, printing costs of the tiles, the materials cost, infrastructure, internal payroll, warehousing, shipping and distribution etc etc. Once you start doing the math on all of that, you start to easily understand why these things are 7-9$/square foot... easily.
Now, can you create your own board? Absolutely you can! Could it be even better than either ROB or Tablescape? Absolutely! But do you have the skill to do that if you are a stickler for aesthetics? How much is your time worth to you, it will take many, many hours to create a table that isn't a felt matte on the kitchen counter. Is it worth it for you to spend your time doing it or is it smart to get a pre-made solution? Last question would be durability... do you need to travel with your board, or put it away periodically at home? Plastic should obviously be as light and more durable than any of the tradition DIY materials like foam, plaster, milar or coroplast.
In a world where we pay 25 bucks for a plastic model, I don't think 7-9$ for a comparitively GINORMOUS plastic tile is expensive when you really stop and think about it right?
At the end of the day you certainly have very viable options to create one yourself, no sarcasm at all. As I said, it is simply these three questions:
1. Will the result look as good as you want it to?
2. Is it worth the considerable amount of your time needed to create it?
3. Do you need a board that can be transported or put away easily?
Whoever the thread operator is needs to posts the 20% off the entire SW range if heading. That is awesome. So much of this is golden with these boards. Love the barricades, and will be getting lots of sandbags.
Just a small clarification just in case it comes up - plastic has a massive, massive up-front cost and very specific production issues that stop the majority of the non-GW market easily using it. However, it has a far lower per-print cost than resin or metal. So, if you are lucky enough to be successful, in the long-term you will eventually start making increasing returns on the investement once you pay off the mold creation. It's a smart move to go plastic, IF you can get the expertise needed to create viable model designs for the material (undercuts) and IF you can come up with the capital.
Lansirill wrote: What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
When it comes to plastic, it's not so much the piece itself that's expensive, it's actually fairly cheap, but the costs of the molds is insane. We've been looking into plastics for Blackwater Gulch, just just to compare one quote for a 4x6" mold is $8000, 6x8" around $12,000 .. so I would imagine a mold for a 12" square would be quite expensive. So if you have 8 molds for 1 set of tiles, the cost to get 1 set produced is probably ginormous. And then the manufacturer will have a minimum order on top of that, so maybe they need to order 1000 copies no matter what. So between that and the price of the molds, the sets gotta be priced in a way that they make money in the end too. All things considered, I think these tables are quite fairly priced.. I wish I had more cash to get more sets, but can only afford the 1 for now.
Earth Dragon wrote: Whoever the thread operator is needs to posts the 20% off the entire SW range if heading. That is awesome. So much of this is golden with these boards. Love the barricades, and will be getting lots of sandbags.
Earth Dragon wrote: Whoever the thread operator is needs to posts the 20% off the entire SW range if heading. That is awesome. So much of this is golden with these boards. Love the barricades, and will be getting lots of sandbags.
Where does it say 20% I thought it was 10??
The recent update that included the pledge calculator spreadsheet.
Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
Hulksmash wrote: Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
Its $33,879 away from the first 'Fantasy' tileset, and it should hit that in another day or so.. then hopefully all the people complaining that there wasn't a Fantasy/Historical option will jump on and we'll cruise past the temple and onto the Trenches in the last few days.
Aaaaaaargh, why do the urban terrain tiles have to be a 7x7 grid of flagstone? That's no damn good for any gridded game that might want to make use of the flagstones as the gird, no matter what size the game uses. 12/7th's of an inch is a terrible dimension, why not just make them 1 inch or 1.5 inches?
If they were 8x8 (or even 12x12), they would have been perfect for deadzone since they'd work perfectly with the 3" grid system that that game uses, with a suitable paintjob.
Seems like a bit of an oversight to not be offering a 2x2 deadzone board made up of just the plain clean urban building base tile considering how Mantic are going to be selling these in the UK anyway.
Mantic are just making a rubber mat for their game, but I'd have totally gone for $50 on this if there was an 8x8 grid on the urban streets and an option to buy individual tiles.
Any room for throwing in a single 8x8 (or even better 4x4 since deadzone and all its terrain uses a 3" grid) urban tile specifically for deadzone, then selling it as a 2x2 set? You'd have one hell of a seller on your hands there, I can't think of any deadzone backer who *wouldn't* want to put down $50 for that.. maybe you could talk to mantic and get them to offer it through their KS with you as the supplier?
Come on dude, big opportunity here! That's an absolutely no-brainer way to raise at least another $50k with a single tile, along with a hell of a lot of post-release sales.
Hulksmash wrote: Glad to see he updated the main page with the 20%. I'll probably throw in for a fair number of bases. It's not looking good for getting my trenches though which makes me a bit sad.
I THINK I remember that they intend on making all of the sets, even the unfunded ones. Just without the mold-cutting expenses paid via KS, the unfunded themes will be a lot longer down the road.
Awesome, looks like you'll be getting some cash out of me after all.
7x7 to make it tough to pre-measure is quite smart thinking for the basic streets (you really do think of everything, don't you? :p). I'm wondering if taking the other option of 1" tiles, or doing a separate tile for that might be good for dungeon delver games and such. The flagstone tile looks lovely and generic, like I could use it for mordheim as well. Something you'd have to eye up, it's likely that keeping the 7x7 as it is and then doing a seperate different one (not intended for use with the streets) is likely to be the ideal option if doable.
If it's possible to make an entire type of board using only one tile repeated then you're on to some easy money there IMO.. not every style of board that people might want necessarily requires 8 different tile variants to be a high-quality product.
Oh, and a Deadzone board could be just about usable for dust tactics in a pinch, it uses slightly larger tiles (another weird dimension - 3.66" square tiles) but not by much, worth noting as a selling point since DT is also huge.
misterjustin wrote: @ scarletsquig -- we went with a 7 tile grid on the Urban foundations and sidewalks to help make it tougher for people to pre-measure.
Please consider what you just said: you went with a 7 tile grid specifically because a 6 or 8 tile grid would be useful. And it's still not very difficult to remember that 3.5 tiles = 6".
Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
Sorry for being a bit of a noob when it comes to things other than 40k, but why is being able to pre-measure a bad thing? Are there a lot of games where it's disallowed? I personally would love to see a 1" grid, specifically to make it easy to move troops without even needing a tape measure (at least some of the time).
What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
When it comes to plastic, it's not so much the piece itself that's expensive, it's actually fairly cheap, but the costs of the molds is insane. We've been looking into plastics for Blackwater Gulch, just just to compare one quote for a 4x6" mold is $8000, 6x8" around $12,000 .. so I would imagine a mold for a 12" square would be quite expensive. So if you have 8 molds for 1 set of tiles, the cost to get 1 set produced is probably ginormous. And then the manufacturer will have a minimum order on top of that, so maybe they need to order 1000 copies no matter what. So between that and the price of the molds, the sets gotta be priced in a way that they make money in the end too. All things considered, I think these tables are quite fairly priced.. I wish I had more cash to get more sets, but can only afford the 1 for now.
I suspect it's a fair price myself; the two other products like this that I've seen have been pricey as well. I had no idea that getting the molds would be so expensive, although Justin has said that the $80k/set *only* covers the cost of making the molds which jives pretty well with what you're saying as well. I suppose 'Why so expensive?' wasn't quite the question I wanted to ask.
I'm still trying to see the value though. Regardless of the cost to produce, what makes this worth $200 for a 4'x6' table when you could scratch build something for less than a quarter of the cost, and not run into any issues of repetitive textures or seams between panels? The main reason I can think of is that I've yet to actually sit down and make a quality gaming table for myself. The second is that plastic is a heck of a lot more durable than pink insulation is. I believe that these Tablescapes probably will look nicer than what I would scratch build, but that the limitations that come with Tablescapes (repetition, fixed options for tiles, tile seams) would balance that out somewhat; if nothing else I've played on some Realm of Battle boards and they're nice, but they're not $300 nicer than a flocked board with a few interest features.
It leaves me wondering if maybe plastic isn't the correct solution. I've seen some latex mats that have a little less detail than the Realm of Battle boards (excluding the hills... a soft latex mat isn't going to do that kind of elevation) for a considerably lower price. It would be useless for trenches, but I could see rivers working with it (since you don't need a huge height difference for the illusion of depth) or an urban setting. The downside is that they're not modular.
I don't know. I really like the idea of these things, and I fully expect them to look great. Justin seems like a nice guy and I doubt that he's rubbing his hands together, laughing maniacally, and plotting on how he's going to spend is filthy lucre. I feel like a bit of a dick questioning this at all, but I'm trying to sell myself on the things. If only I was so thoughtful regarding Games Workshop.
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
Sorry for being a bit of a noob when it comes to things other than 40k, but why is being able to pre-measure a bad thing? Are there a lot of games where it's disallowed? I personally would love to see a 1" grid, specifically to make it easy to move troops without even needing a tape measure (at least some of the time).
Some games do some don't eg Malifaux and I think Warmahordes (and presumably Necromunda being based on 2nd Ed 40k) don't allow it but 40k, WHF, Hell Dorado and Warpath do to throw a few names about.
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
I previously commented on asking for a 12x12 grid. I was hoping to use this for FFG games (a grid pattern would be great even if it was not on the roads.
Also, any chance of swapping around the trenches and the temple (ask the comments section... funny feeling the trenches are going t obe the biggest driver of this campaign (as they are so unique!)
I don't think this suggestion has come up before (I've read all the posts, but not all AT ONCE) but, have you considered making a single tile with just the plain dirt texture as an add-on purchase?
That way, people who wanted to minimize 'featured' tiles for whatever reason (repetition, etc). could easily add on 1, 2, 4, or whatever 'plain tiles' to suit them.
This would benefit people who had things like fortifications and buildings, which might not set flat on a tile with raised detail, and also allow modelers to take a 'foundational' tile that would interlock with your board and add their own buildings, hills, terrain, etc. to it easily.
That tile would have minimal modeling costs, but on the other hand, it might be too niche to bother doing an expensive mold for it. However, you might run a poll or something to see if it is something that people would pony up additional cash for.
Da Butcha wrote: I don't think this suggestion has come up before (I've read all the posts, but not all AT ONCE) but, have you considered making a single tile with just the plain dirt texture as an add-on purchase?
This has been covered a fair bit near the start of the campaign.
The short answer is not possible at the moment as the cost for logistics around a single tile are too high. At the moment they are created in sets of 8 or 16 and then packed efficiently, single tile processing would increase the overheads dramatically. As he is only covering the cost of the milling and not other associated costs this is just too much of a burden to bear.
After $500k (if they hit that)... totally different story... but I doubt that would happen as more likely to get resin add-ons for free.
That's a shame as I have a lot of card and plastic scenery acquired over the last 20 years that IU would happily mount on a "plain" tile permanently - perhaps a set of "plain" tiles might appear as a later stretch goal if this does go mad.
If there's demand for single plain tiles then there is probably decent demand for 8-packs....anyway, fingers crossed.
What I'm wondering is what makes these plastic tabletops so pricey. It may just be the size of the darn things, the non-EB prices are around $7-9 per tile which seems pretty reasonable... it's just that when you need 24 of the dang things it adds up. I like the idea of them, and I think they're looking good, but I'm left scratching my head as to if it's a good idea or if I'd be better off building my own. I don't mean to be a ray of negativity, I'm just trying to see the value because I really do like the idea.
When it comes to plastic, it's not so much the piece itself that's expensive, it's actually fairly cheap, but the costs of the molds is insane. We've been looking into plastics for Blackwater Gulch, just just to compare one quote for a 4x6" mold is $8000, 6x8" around $12,000 .. so I would imagine a mold for a 12" square would be quite expensive. So if you have 8 molds for 1 set of tiles, the cost to get 1 set produced is probably ginormous. And then the manufacturer will have a minimum order on top of that, so maybe they need to order 1000 copies no matter what. So between that and the price of the molds, the sets gotta be priced in a way that they make money in the end too. All things considered, I think these tables are quite fairly priced.. I wish I had more cash to get more sets, but can only afford the 1 for now.
I suspect it's a fair price myself; the two other products like this that I've seen have been pricey as well. I had no idea that getting the molds would be so expensive, although Justin has said that the $80k/set *only* covers the cost of making the molds which jives pretty well with what you're saying as well. I suppose 'Why so expensive?' wasn't quite the question I wanted to ask.
I'm still trying to see the value though. Regardless of the cost to produce, what makes this worth $200 for a 4'x6' table when you could scratch build something for less than a quarter of the cost, and not run into any issues of repetitive textures or seams between panels? The main reason I can think of is that I've yet to actually sit down and make a quality gaming table for myself. The second is that plastic is a heck of a lot more durable than pink insulation is.
You said it yourself. Time. Repetiveness of a single board (vs tiles for a modular board). And flocked foam almost always looks like crap.
OTL Games finally made it into an official update!
Video Preview - Scrap Yard Fortifications
Update #32
People have been asking me for a better look at the wall/fortification sets (and I have been using the two terms interchangeably, sorry about that!) and I decided that a video would go much further than any series of photos could.
These are the finished, resin cast product for the "Scrap Yard" fortification set -- which you can get as part of the Deluxe reward levels, or as an add-on to any pledge.
Each theme will include a fortification/wall set and themed scatter terrain. The "Urban Streets" set will include clean and damaged version of concrete barriers inspired by modern military fortifications:
"Rolling Fields" will have a set of rough-hewn stone walls, and scatter terrain that includes boulders and small thematic touches. For "Ruined Temple" we'll offer a set of smooth cut stone walls, with scatter terrain that gives a feel for various temple themes.
But... we're not going to stop there.
Tablescapes has a future with Secret Weapon, and we're going to be working to bring expansion sets, and new terrain elements, to each of the themes. Like this tower for the "Scrap Yard" set.
I know, I know... it's freaking amazing! Of course it's so big that we'll have to offer it as a multi-part plastic kit. We've already priced this and once we recover from the campaign madness we'll start looking at expanding the offerings with pieces like this -- that won't have any impact on delivering the tile sets themselves!
"Rolling Fields" could unlock any time now. If you know folks that were waiting for the fantasy themes -- get them in here! The next two themes will appeal to fantasy and non-fantasy players alike, but we won't unlock them without new backers.
Thank you (AGAIN!) for your continued support and enthusiasm. I'll have another update before long -- including news about a bag option from KR Multi-Case, and a free PDF from On The Lamb Games!
Good to see hints of what's to come later on down the road, and that SW is going to be supporting these sets well past the KS Campaign!
The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Can anyone explain the shipping options to me? Sometimes the words 'free shipping' are used and sometimes 'free international shipping'. Are they actually being used interchangeably? If not, the shipping costs might price me out of this one (like it did with Dwarven Forge).
Anything that's part of the actual kickstarter, the boards and NEW terrain and NEW bases have their shipping cost included in the pledge level cost there is no extra shipping charge.
If you want to buy any of the current SW range that is being offered at 20% off then you pay the standard SW shipping charge for them only as they will be posted separately after the KS ends.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Yep, when they were considering going from 16 to 8 unique tiles for the scrapyard set I wasn't happy. That would have gotten me to drop my pledge. Two of each (I'm only getting 16) in that theme was a deal breaker for what I want them for.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Probably just one. Which is all you would need to buy.
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Probably just one. Which is all you would need to buy.
Yeah, that was my point. Compare to something like the Trench table: two or three identical bunkers on a defensive line won't look weird, but two or three identical aeroplane tail towers might. So people are more likely to buy more of the former than the latter, which makes it easier to pay for your moulds.
Every hour brings us closer to unlocking the "Rolling Fields" table theme, and so we've been putting our heads together to sort out the best mix of tiles. Right now the 16 tile set looks like:
4 @ Straight Creek
2 @ Creek Bend
1 @ Large Rock
1 @ Shallow
8 @ Plain Flat
The creek tiles will have a VERY slight slope, creating a small berm around the creek feature to give it some additional depth. There are enough creek tiles in the basic set to cross the table. We'll keep this as a creek, and not a river, so that it doesn't dominate the table -- and work on river tiles as an expansion set after the campaign.
The top center tiles are the shallow and the rock feature. The former would allow you to have one tile with a slight crater or creek, the latter would be dominated by a large raised rock feature. The remaining tiles will feature our universal dirt pattern with small thematic touches like small rocks and simple, non-period details.
Next up on the concept front... "Ruined Temple" is getting a makeover!
I'm torn between the field and the ruined temple...I have a RoB board currently and would love to have a 4x4 set to get rid of the hill that the realm of battle has...I don't know if the temple will fit my aesthetic, but the idea of more fields is sort of boring to me...can't wait to see the updated concepts.
you may even get me to pledge for both if I like what I see
BrotherVord wrote: I'm torn between the field and the ruined temple...I have a RoB board currently and would love to have a 4x4 set to get rid of the hill that the realm of battle has...I don't know if the temple will fit my aesthetic, but the idea of more fields is sort of boring to me...can't wait to see the updated concepts.
you may even get me to pledge for both if I like what I see
Just an FYI... you do know that the Tablescapes and RoB are different heights? So you'll likely need a riser of some sort (like pink foam) to make it compatible with the RoB board.
The Crippler wrote: Can anyone explain the shipping options to me? Sometimes the words 'free shipping' are used and sometimes 'free international shipping'. Are they actually being used interchangeably? If not, the shipping costs might price me out of this one (like it did with Dwarven Forge).
I am pretty sure that the boards are free international shipping. I read that Justin is not able to edit the word 'International' into the descriptions where it is currently missing, because Kickstarter doesn't allow editing of text for pledge levels which have backers.
BrotherVord wrote: I'm torn between the field and the ruined temple...I have a RoB board currently and would love to have a 4x4 set to get rid of the hill that the realm of battle has...I don't know if the temple will fit my aesthetic, but the idea of more fields is sort of boring to me...can't wait to see the updated concepts.
you may even get me to pledge for both if I like what I see
Just an FYI... you do know that the Tablescapes and RoB are different heights? So you'll likely need a riser of some sort (like pink foam) to make it compatible with the RoB board.
Shouldn't be a huge issue, I would only get the 4x4's if money would be an issue at that time anyway
AlexHolker wrote: The tower suffers from the same problem as the rest of the Scrap Yard: how many identical aeroplane tails with identical added scrap-bits is someone going to want or need on their table?
Probably just one. Which is all you would need to buy.
Yeah, that was my point. Compare to something like the Trench table: two or three identical bunkers on a defensive line won't look weird, but two or three identical aeroplane tail towers might. So people are more likely to buy more of the former than the latter, which makes it easier to pay for your moulds.
What I took away from this post: folks down under say "aeroplane"
(not actually sure if that's true or not, but if so, it's awesome )
misterjustin wrote: Useful, yes - but the only common complaint I've received about the 12" tiles is that they make it easier to pre-measure. Anything we can do to mitigate that is also useful.
Of course it all has to balance out in the end -- and being able to offer a Deadzone board would be... very, very useful.
Sorry for being a bit of a noob when it comes to things other than 40k, but why is being able to pre-measure a bad thing? Are there a lot of games where it's disallowed? I personally would love to see a 1" grid, specifically to make it easy to move troops without even needing a tape measure (at least some of the time).
Some games do some don't eg Malifaux and I think Warmahordes (and presumably Necromunda being based on 2nd Ed 40k) don't allow it but 40k, WHF, Hell Dorado and Warpath do to throw a few names about.
Just to update this - Malifaux have just announced v2 beta and pre-measuring will be allowed.
I've signed up for a 6'x4' table - 24 tiles, and I'm going to be getting the rolling plains.
Does anyone in the UK or Spain who is getting the damaged or mixed urban want to swap 8 or 12 tiles?
rifles66 wrote: Just to update this - Malifaux have just announced v2 beta and pre-measuring will be allowed.
This pleases me greatly, thanks for that
I'm leaning towards going for the ruined temple if we get it and the rolling fields, 8 tiles of each, to use for Malifaux, then expand later when the boards hits the market for games that require bigger boards.
One of the many things I've been keeping mum about are fancy new bag options from Daryl at KR Multicase -- and I can now confirm that he has a card case option that is compatible with the tiles, and that the Kaiser system will work perfect to transport your tiles, models, AND terrain!
KRM-SWM is 4” deep so will hold 5 to 10 tiles depending on thickness (same style as the current card case range in the KR system)
K3-SWM is 12” deep so will hold 15 to 30 tiles depending on thickness (either in 3 card cases or out of them)
K4-SWM is 16” deep so will hold 20 to 40 tiles depending on thickness (either in 4 card cases or out of them) -- this is enough to fit two COMPLETE 16 tile sets AND your terrain!
Of course the K1 and K2 bags will also hold tiles (5-10 and 10-20 respectively) if you'd like a smaller bag for your Skirmisher board, or your display board and your army. KR has the options to make it work!
And what is this thing, you ask? Well, I'm happy to say that we're working on a compression bracket that will make the Tablescapes Tiles compatible with the new furniture line from KR Multicase!
Of course we still have a lot of things to work out -- such as getting Daryl a complete set of the terrain, and a giant stack of tiles so he can ensure they fit correctly -- which means the bags probably won't be available as an add-on item. BUT! They will be available and we're working together almost daily to ensure that they're going to be amazing.
I think if perhaps you opened up 4 of the non river field tiles now we'd reach 200k a lot faster and fund the remainder of the rolling fields. You'd at least get some fantasy/historic players in for a 2x2 display board, which will snowball. Plus as the most generic tile, they would be more likely add on targets for people wanting to expand scrapyard, temple, fields, and eventually trench boards.
OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT OF A PENDING OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT AN OFFICIAL... ah, you get the idea....
I'm off to bed, and I'm waiting for logos to come through to make everything official, but I can tell you now, that I will be telling you later, that Secret Weapon *WILL* be offering an official Deadzone compatible board!
DEADZONE BOARD - ANNOUNCEMENT INCOMING!
And so I'll leave you with that... because I spent today so excited that I'm exhausted!
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's a good idea though. I think the sweet spot for cross-backers from Deadzone will be the $50 spot (2x2 board). I can see this bringing in a good number of smaller backers that will pump this up quite a bit. And I don't think he would need to design that many different boards for a Deadzone set.
DEADZONE BOARD
I'm waiting on some new artwork so I can post the update to show you the 2x2' Display Board option. This will be the official Tablescapes: Deadzone set. We are also modifying the Urban Streets tiles to make it possible to measure the 3" squares using the sidewalk and foundation cement blocks. This is official, and will be officially licensed following the close of the campaign. Stay tuned....
FUTURE THEMES
Lots of folks seem to be wondering what happens to themes like Trench Works if they don't fund during this campaign. Don't worry - you'll have your Trench Works. Any theme that doesn't unlock during this campaign will still go into design. I might come back with another campaign and do things a little differently... but I want to get these pledges out first.
FANTASY THEMES
As this has come back around again I want to continue to let fantasy theme players know that the next two themes are for them. There's an even 3/3 split among the themes for sci-fi vs. fantasy Tablescapes, and I have more fantasy tables in the works. The first two themes are distinctly sci-fi, but the next two (Rolling Fields & Ruined Temple) are distinctly fantasy. You are not forgotten, and more fantasy themes are planned. Indeed, theme #7 is also fantasy... you just don't know about it yet.
DAMAGED STREETS BREAKDOWN
The breakdown will match the clean Urban Streets tiles, with some variation of course:
4 x Straight Road
2 x T Junction
2 x X Junction
6 x Foundation
2 x special feature
URBAN DISPLAY BOARD
I will make this available as separate clean and damaged displays - to keep with the popular demand for both options. Both display boards will offer two straight roads and two foundations -- so you have somewhere for both vehicles and buildings.
Not to nitpick, but "scrapyard" "clean streets" and "broken streets" makes 3 Sci-fi themes, not 2.
Either way, I'm confident the last 18k needed to get me my rolling fields will come in, but unless the last 48 hours holds a massive influx of pledges, I wouldn't count on Ruined Temple happening this round.
Aerethan wrote: Not to nitpick, but "scrapyard" "clean streets" and "broken streets" makes 3 Sci-fi themes, not 2.
Either way, I'm confident the last 18k needed to get me my rolling fields will come in, but unless the last 48 hours holds a massive influx of pledges, I wouldn't count on Ruined Temple happening this round.
Let's not forget that originally, it was intended to just be "streets", with both damaged and clean being included in the one 16 tile set.
There are 12 display boards 2'x2' left at the $50 price point. after that they will be $60 as SWM is adding a border piece to the display boards which has pushed up the price. The $50 sets will also get the border piece consider it an EB level now. The Deadzone board is consider to be a display board from what I can gather.
Existing backers can add the display board with border to their pledge for $54.
There will be a proper update with this information soon.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Artwork is not final and has just been made from the current render.
OFFICIAL - Deadzone Tablscapes
Update #37 · May 3, 2013 · 9 comments
There were rumors. There was whistling. Then there were announcements about upcoming announcements, and now... there is an official announcement!
We have officially partnered with Mantic Games to offer a four tile, 2x2' Display Board option for their sci-fi skirmish game: Deadzone.
You will now have the option to select "Deadzone" as a theme for your Display Board pledge or add-on item. This set will include four of our clean "Urban Streets" foundation tiles, selected by Ronnie Renton, and redesigned to make them fully compatible with the Deadzone rule system -- while still maintaining our original urban vision.
In addition we are now working with our factory to offer a border system for each of our Display Board sets -- and these will be included with your board. As I type this there are still a handful of the Early Bird pledge levels open at the Display Board level... but I don't expect them to last long. Of course you can get in on the open Display Board level, or add one to your existing pledge, without a worry.
We are very excited to be able to work with Mantic Games and bring this offer to the table -- no pun intended.
and from the comments
Creator Secret Weapon 16 minutes ago
And a quick comment to let folks know that we're still working on the foundation tile that will be included in the Deadzone set. The crew at Mantic will also be given a chance to provide input on the final design -- so we can all be happy with the finished product.
Creator Secret Weapon 7 minutes ago
All of our "Urban Streets" tiles will be compatible with Deadzone -- so you're good to go with a 4x6' Mini-Wargamer pledge and a honkin' big game of Deadzone!
scarletsquig wrote: Aw nuts, missed the early bird. Looks like there were only a dozen or so of them left when the DZ news went live.
Oh well, I'll definitely buy it at retail. Fantastic board.
Am I missing something? Is the design still TBD? I've been in at the Display Board level since the beginning (since I wanted a display board!) but I'm just seeing an 8x8 grid of bog standard 1.5" tiles here. I'd rather have the roll-up mat, frankly.
If the rolling hills goal isn't met will they be released at some point?
To be honest I was excited about the clean streets but I really love how the rolling hills look like. How high will the hills be? Will you at some point release larger hills or ponds? like it might take a few boards to put together like in ROB boards? I love height differential in game boards.
Newabortion wrote: If the rolling hills goal isn't met will they be released at some point?
To be honest I was excited about the clean streets but I really love how the rolling hills look like. How high will the hills be? Will you at some point release larger hills or ponds? like it might take a few boards to put together like in ROB boards? I love height differential in game boards.
There is some concept art of what the 8 Fields tiles basically look like on the Kickstarter:
2 Creek Tiles, a small pond, a large rock, and several 'flats'. No ROB style hills in the fields set.
He's said in the comments that expansions to each of the themes will come out eventually, and one of the biggest requests has been for more water features.
The Trenches set is supposed to include some elevation pieces, and I imagine they could be used with the fields (or any other set) to produce hills.
Newabortion wrote: My gosh i completely overlooked that picture! Lol I looked at it but I guess I just wasn't paying attention. Thanks so much Cyporiean.
No problem, people have overlooked alot of stuff on the main page.
Its only 12.5k away from the Fields at this point, and I'm quite excited.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also this:
Creator Secret Weapon 1 minute ago
NEW DISPLAY BOARDS WILL BE UNLOCKED AS PARTIAL REWARDS! OMG PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I'm tired too - also, I'm on my second Manhattan, and setting up a game of Small World.
Each theme will have a set display board option Urban for example is 2 straight roads and 2 plain foundation tiles they are not random nor will you get a choice.
Edit or yeah Cyperiean has all the details there
Automatically Appended Next Post: There,s an EB display board $50 open if your quick.
Well that's understandable . A week to go with under 10K left needed, I think that'll be really easy.
I will only have a choice of style to make if the Ruined Temple gets unlocked as well (or other, display board only options, as I thought they might've mentioned something about that) since I'll be using it for a fantasy army and thus urban doesn't work.
Cyporiean wrote: Its looking like the Display board for the temple will be an inbetween stretch goal, so we should at the very least hit that.
Have they indicated where that goal might slot in?
Not yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
$180,000 FUNDED - ROLLING FIELDS DISPLAY BOARD UNLOCKED!
Obviously I'm a bit behind on this one -- but I was waiting on some revised artwork before I posted the official announcement. This has been floating around in the general comments for a couple of days. As half-way points to our next stretch-goal I will be unlocking Display Board options for the next theme. And "Rolling Fields" is here... NOW!
By popular request (demands, really!) the Display Board will include the creek bend, the rock feature, and two of the flat tiles. Like all of our Display Board options this will also come with a 2' frame to keep your display snug.
BUT WAIT! THAT'S NOT ALL!
As I type this the complete "Rolling Fields" table set is less than $10,000 away -- which means that once we unlock that we're going to be aiming for a "Ruined Temple" Display Board option!
BAM! Of course we're still working out the concepts for the "Ruined Temple" theme, so I can't show you what a display board would look like... but I CAN show you what the new concepts look like!
This batch of concepts is intentionally heavy handed -- giving us an idea of which elements we could work with. The finished set will include several (comparatively) plain tiles, and far more foundation tiles. But I can say that the quarter circle (far right corner), and the "moon well" foundation tile (one up and right from the bottom center) have been given the green light. Likewise the partial wall (top center), and the desecrated graves will make an appearance on the final tiles. The Display Board option will include two foundation tiles, one raised detail tile, and one flat tile.
And there is STILL more!
I'm waiting for permission from Mantic Games to offer a 4x4' (16 tile set) version of the official Deadzone board. Many of you have requested it and I'm hoping to be able to offer it before the campaign closes.
I'll have an update posted tomorrow with all of the unlocked themes available as pledge rewards -- to help make it easier to navigate.
My thanks for the constant feedback, support, and enthusiasm!
If this one is correct, the ratios are all off. There's no way we'd need 4 T-Junctions per set and there's no where near enough foundation tiles. This would create an odd looking race-track with roads that go no where and you wouldn't have enough flat ground to place any buildings.
Urban Streets Version 2
This requires a bit of extrapolation, but if we assume that the rightmost block of four in the previous picture remains as is, then this is the left-most block of four, replacing one of the two T-Junctions on the concept sketch with another foundation.
Urban Streets Version 3 This is the listing beneath the two different pictures.
4 x Straight Road 2 x T Junction 2 x X Junction 6 x Foundation 1 x Checkpoint 1 x Lift-Gate
This one does not appear to be possible as you cannot have 1 of something where it's a duplication of 8 tiles. It would have to be two checkpoint or two liftgates, not one of either. That doesn't work.
So which is correct? As I said, these are all mutually exclusive. If it's Version 2 I might be down for two sets of 16 (one damaged, one not). If not, then I won't be in.
Yep version 3 is the current contents of the Urban set.
The current render shown of the Urban street has a 7 square grid as it was done prior the Dead zone deal this has been changed and ALL Urban street designs now have an 8 square grid plus there will be subtle markings like cracks on the roads to mark out the 3"x3" grid where it can't be done with paving stones. SWM should have new renders tomorrow. The current Dead zone board is just a mock up using the 7x7 board with an extra row photoshoped in. The 4 tiles making up the Deadzone board will have different detailing it's not the same board repeated 4 times. SWM are doing foundation tiles anyway and Mantic will pick the 4 most suitable - the Dead zone tiles are not unique designs they will be part of the Urban streets boards anyway.
He posted that the rolling fields display board is unlocked (with final concept pic) and ruined temple display board is next after the 200K stretch. Nice!
Very true RiTides with all the Dead zone talk we've kind of forgotten the rest of the project. As an aside to that Mantic jumped the gun and were not supposed to offer the Dead zone boards as an add on until after the SWM KS ended they were just supposed to advertise the deal until then to help SWM a long unfortunately SWM will lose out on some pledge money as a result. Here's hoping once rolling fields opens there will be a good boost from those waiting for a more fantasy board.
The update
$180,000 FUNDED - ROLLING FIELDS DISPLAY BOARD UNLOCKED!
Obviously I'm a bit behind on this one -- but I was waiting on some revised artwork before I posted the official announcement. This has been floating around in the general comments for a couple of days. As half-way points to our next stretch-goal I will be unlocking Display Board options for the next theme. And "Rolling Fields" is here... NOW!
By popular request (demands, really!) the Display Board will include the creek bend, the rock feature, and two of the flat tiles. Like all of our Display Board options this will also come with a 2' frame to keep your display snug.
BUT WAIT! THAT'S NOT ALL!
As I type this the complete "Rolling Fields" table set is less than $10,000 away -- which means that once we unlock that we're going to be aiming for a "Ruined Temple" Display Board option!
BAM! Of course we're still working out the concepts for the "Ruined Temple" theme, so I can't show you what a display board would look like... but I CAN show you what the new concepts look like!
This batch of concepts is intentionally heavy handed -- giving us an idea of which elements we could work with. The finished set will include several (comparatively) plain tiles, and far more foundation tiles. But I can say that the quarter circle (far right corner), and the "moon well" foundation tile (one up and right from the bottom center) have been given the green light. Likewise the partial wall (top center), and the desecrated graves will make an appearance on the final tiles. The Display Board option will include two foundation tiles, one raised detail tile, and one flat tile.
And there is STILL more!
I'm waiting for permission from Mantic Games to offer a 4x4' (16 tile set) version of the official Deadzone board. Many of you have requested it and I'm hoping to be able to offer it before the campaign closes.
I'll have an update posted tomorrow with all of the unlocked themes available as pledge rewards -- to help make it easier to navigate.
My thanks for the constant feedback, support, and enthusiasm!
DaveC wrote: Yep version 3 is the current contents of the Urban set.
How?
If you have 8 tiles and double them, the minimum you will end up with of any type of tile is 2. You can't have two unique tiles unless there are 16 unique sculpts. Are there 16 unique sculpts or is 8 sculpts doubled?
8 unique tiles, MisterJustin has arranged it so that they will produce more of the foundation tiles and less of the 2 special tiles so you only get 1 of each special tile but you get 2 extra foundation tiles as a result. He changed it after it was pointed out that the layouts were to road heavy with only 4 foundation tiles and left little space for buildings.
I suspect though there are only 8 tiles, the factory is tooling up as if there are 16. So when they knock out a set of 16 it is really like two sets of 8, each with the one unique tile. But within each set of 8 there are duplicates of road or foundation tiles.
RiTides wrote: I think ruined temple has great potential. Very excited to see the final concepts / display board of it.
I'm the opposite. Was really looking forward to this, and the concept looks way more like bombed out WWII Germany than a ruined temple. I was hoping for more cobbles/tiles like you would find in the roman plazas bordering churches, etc. this looks more like bombed urban clutter. I don't know if I want a board now...
If you read the text he says these are intentionally dense to try out ideas, final ones will have more plain. 2 that are final are the quarter circle and the "moon well" on the right side- both of these look Great to me. And are generic enough to be So many things depending on painting!
Avoiding greek- or roman-esque columns and the like which would limit the utility of this set are a must, imo, and those 2 final tile concepts do that quite well.
RiTides wrote: I think ruined temple has great potential. Very excited to see the final concepts / display board of it.
I'm the opposite. Was really looking forward to this, and the concept looks way more like bombed out WWII Germany than a ruined temple. I was hoping for more cobbles/tiles like you would find in the roman plazas bordering churches, etc. this looks more like bombed urban clutter. I don't know if I want a board now...
I am the exact same actually. I was hoping for less ruin and more temple. I think if the concepts don't change radically over this last week then I might have to pull out as none of the other boards really interest me. Maybe if we got to see some better artwork I might be convinced to stick around and hopefully our input will still be listened to after the ks has ended. He did mention in the latest update that there would be more foundation tiles than the art showed so I am still in for the moment!
My fear with the ruined temple parts is that they look very compartmentalised. So rather than having a board that is a ruined temple, you have a board with 36 individual ruined temple bits that don't spill over. A very neat mess, in other words. It would look unnatural.
H.B.M.C. wrote: My fear with the ruined temple parts is that they look very compartmentalised. So rather than having a board that is a ruined temple, you have a board with 36 individual ruined temple bits that don't spill over. A very neat mess, in other words. It would look unnatural.
Good observation - it would be good if there was something in the design that made some of the tiles flow from one to another.
Perhaps if there was some element of ruined structure...
But done subtly enough that if you don't line them up it doesn't look bad either.
. It really is addictive seeing how different campaigns have performed, etc.
This breaks down the size of the roads with a variety of Warhammer 
