Scarecrows are area patrol units, designed to provide security to various types of property ranging from industrial perimeters to agricultural and terraforming facilities. The unit is anthropomorphic and stands a touch over 2 meters tall. Equipped with an advanced suite of thermal and motion tracking sensors, the Scarecrow is designed to detect and deter any non-authorized biological or technological intrusion into its designated patrol area.
If you take away the shoulder mounted gun that's a pretty nice model actually. Complements the bigger lads, too. The robots are by far the best of the line for me, well done!
I think the shoulder gun needs some more bitz and bobs to make it look like what it actually is: military grade hardware bolted to a pest control unit. Right now it blends too well to be some cobbled together "looted" (for lack of a better word) railgun on a civilian unit body, but it's far too large to just be a well balanced/designed factory war model.
Same goes for the arm gun. From the KS update:
Scarecrow also features a Heavy Chemtek dispersal unit. These pest control neurotoxin distribution systems are capable of rendering areas temporarily lethal
This thing was a pest control sprayer. Not a combat weapon.
That's why it doesn't have the hands and shoulderable man sized/shaped gun. I can't speak for the Hunter as it's supposed to be a piece of military hardware, but for the scarecrow, it makes sense. Why spend money attaching and interfacing another arm for something that is essentially a fumigator/pesticide sprayer on legs? Which I assume it was put on legs to traverse fields without trampling crops under tread. It is a scarecrow after all and these things absolutely belong in the cornfields. I'm going to rust my models up good and make that railgun look sufficiently improvised and I think it will turn out great.
@DarkTraveler777: I think the point that was being made wasn't that the paint jobs are bad. It's that the paintjobs might not amke the models attractive to certain people. I've had a couple of GW kits that I hated initially, that was until I saw them in a different color scheme (aka. different paint job). Suddenly the minis were attractive to me. The original paint jobs were technically of very high quality, just not something I liked.
About that Scarecrow: Nice!
I still want that Robot only box please. Or could we get a mini only box (without the rules, templates, etc.) for $50 for example?
I might be game for more then two starters ($180 pledge) can we just add $90 for each additional starter box we want?
The robots are the main thing keeping my interest in ME, in that unlike the Karlists the Epirian robots will slot straight into my existing collection, so even if the ME rules turn out to not to my liking, the robots are good enough on their own.
Hey guys, hadn't checked back into the thread for a few days, so just popping by to tell you I love you.
I like the scarecrows alot personally, and I really think I'll enjoy modeling them. Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see what sort of paint schemes I can apply to everything
Looks good, The joints are going to be a little buggy to position before gluing. Pinning might be necessary.
Looking at that sprue I can't see the lower legs anywhere. I see the arms in the top middle. Upper thighs in the upper right. Upper arms on the upper left. Body on the mid left, Head on the mid left. Shoulder gun mid right. and whole bunch of options on the bottom. Or am I seeing this wrong?
I like the scarecrow a bit more now, the design is better then I thought it was. I will still mod mine a bit. I think that big gun would look better in it's arms. Either replacing the left arm with it, or treating it like an under slung grenade launcher.
Vanguard-13 wrote: Looks good, The joints are going to be a little buggy to position before gluing. Pinning might be necessary.
Looking at that sprue I can't see the lower legs anywhere. I see the arms in the top middle. Upper thighs in the upper right. Upper arms on the upper left. Body on the mid left, Head on the mid left. Shoulder gun mid right. and whole bunch of options on the bottom. Or am I seeing this wrong?
I like the scarecrow a bit more now, the design is better then I thought it was. I will still mod mine a bit. I think that big gun would look better in it's arms. Either replacing the left arm with it, or treating it like an under slung grenade launcher.
I might change the head too...
The upper arms are in the bottom right, the leg parts are top left and top right.
Pinning is not needed - this is HIPS plastic, so polystyrene cement will melt the plastic, welding it together. Posing is not too hard either as you get about 2-3 minutes after applying glue to move the model around before it all sets solid. This model would be impossible (without wanting to kill yourself from fiddlyness!) in any material other than HIPS plastic. We would strongly advise against using superglue with these
My 2 cents - I like the Scarecrows a lot overall, but as others have said, I'm not a fan of their over-sized shoulder guns. (They just don't look practical to me.) After I mod away the shoulder guns I think they'll look great.
Vanguard-13 wrote: Looks good, The joints are going to be a little buggy to position before gluing. Pinning might be necessary.
Looking at that sprue I can't see the lower legs anywhere. I see the arms in the top middle. Upper thighs in the upper right. Upper arms on the upper left. Body on the mid left, Head on the mid left. Shoulder gun mid right. and whole bunch of options on the bottom. Or am I seeing this wrong?
I like the scarecrow a bit more now, the design is better then I thought it was. I will still mod mine a bit. I think that big gun would look better in it's arms. Either replacing the left arm with it, or treating it like an under slung grenade launcher.
I might change the head too...
The upper arms are in the bottom right, the leg parts are top left and top right.
Pinning is not needed - this is HIPS plastic, so polystyrene cement will melt the plastic, welding it together. Posing is not too hard either as you get about 2-3 minutes after applying glue to move the model around before it all sets solid. This model would be impossible (without wanting to kill yourself from fiddlyness!) in any material other than HIPS plastic. We would strongly advise against using superglue with these
Ah! Thank you, I assumed those were the backpack antenna from one of the models.
Hmm. looks like I'll need to get new glue. I think the full poseable nature of these will be awesome.
Vanguard-13 wrote: Looks good, The joints are going to be a little buggy to position before gluing. Pinning might be necessary.
Looking at that sprue I can't see the lower legs anywhere. I see the arms in the top middle. Upper thighs in the upper right. Upper arms on the upper left. Body on the mid left, Head on the mid left. Shoulder gun mid right. and whole bunch of options on the bottom. Or am I seeing this wrong?
I like the scarecrow a bit more now, the design is better then I thought it was. I will still mod mine a bit. I think that big gun would look better in it's arms. Either replacing the left arm with it, or treating it like an under slung grenade launcher.
I might change the head too...
The upper arms are in the bottom right, the leg parts are top left and top right.
Pinning is not needed - this is HIPS plastic, so polystyrene cement will melt the plastic, welding it together. Posing is not too hard either as you get about 2-3 minutes after applying glue to move the model around before it all sets solid. This model would be impossible (without wanting to kill yourself from fiddlyness!) in any material other than HIPS plastic. We would strongly advise against using superglue with these
Is there a particular brand or type of glue you'd recommend for this plastic specifically?
One bottle will last you basically forever. You just need a teeny, tiny amount.
What I normally do is put a little drop on each surface and dab it with my pinky to spread it out/remove excess cement. Then I blow on the surface of the glue for a few seconds until it dries a little bit and gets tacky. Then stick the pieces together and hold firmly.
The biggest issue with cement is getting it where it isn't supposed to be. You don't want to put too much of it in your join because the melted plastic will squeeze out around the joint and possibly mar details. I dab with my pinky to make sure I am not handling a model with a finger that has been in the cement.
Another vote for Testor's, even if weeble has made me feel like I might have a problem in that I have just started my second tube in the past year.
To go along with his point though, that's two (large) FoW armies with lots of PSC vehicles, Mantic's DZ stuff, DFG Leviathans and an APC, and bunches of other stuff besides. It DOES last a while, I'm apparently just an addict...
And you guys said you were not doing female models! Check out that hourglass figure!!!
Sarcasm aside, I am an oldschool battletech fan and I have always enjoyed the unsymmetrical aesthetic. This guy reminds me of a Hunchback and that is good with me.
You may need to take one unit of Human troops. Bot handlers are going to be really beneficial too. But other then that, You should be able to take nothing but drones and Robots.
Handlers should be the only Human type unit you'll need since they'll have boosts for effectiveness of the robotic units and will also act as an HQ, but Drones apparently are a core type unit so you won't be required to take infantry squads.
Can't help but notice that today has seen people either stop backing or reduce their pledge. The gradual climb to just above $37,000 has dropped down to below that level now.
At least it's all still funded, I've pledged for a fair few terrain sprues and may add a couple more on. I know there have been reassurances from SAS that having more than one box will be useful and after seeing the variability of the Scarecrows today I figure that I have to have as many as possible. I'm still holding on until I know what the force organisation for the game will be. I may want oodles of angels and mechs (really badly want!), but because I will predominantly be playing games solo, I really would prefer to know that there will be a situation where playing 2 (or 3, or 4) Angels is feasible and warranted. Otherwise I have another group of figures gathering dust.
Please note, I love the aesthetic of this game and the fiction and the figures and the concept and the hats and the mechs and the prospect of "normal females" in the future and the name and everything else I've read so far.... so I say this from a place of full support for the IP - As someone who has very little space to store figures I need to be pragmatic. I'd also love to know that if I bought two sets that the suppression counters could be pink in one box and flame in the other (The previous generations of my family have been notorious for hoarding and I therefore hate the idea of duplicating things I'm not going to readily need).
I hope you don't find my comments inflammatory or wingey, I would just like to have a reason to support the KS with more money and I wonder whether other people may be feeling the same. Add-ons may be the answer (I'm genuinely sorry to have to say that, because I have felt your reasons for not doing so were appropriate), because if I knew I had a shopping list to make a force that would look cool and would allow me to still have multiple force organisations (and others felt the same as me) you could end up swimming in money because your models (to my mind) are a very very high quality and have got me truly excited about MEdge.
I'm so excited to get my box and to paint up these beauties. Thanks for all of your hard work. It would be brilliant to get the other stretch goals met for added jazz, but I will be happy with my starter set as it is if it doesn't happen. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Has the $60 - A handful of plastic pledge level been increased with the extra plastic (handlers, scarecrows, hunters, shadow walkers, angel) that has gone into the box set?
If so you really want to make that clear on the front page/faq (I know you can't change the pledge level text once somebody has backed)
again if it is the equvelent of just the minis from the box set it might be the ideal solution for TP^DC Deputy Manager (no duplication of the other bits)
Huh! Had just assumed that the extra models were only for the $90 pledge. If the $60 pledge gets you ALL of the models, I would just get one (or two) of those. Would also make my previous post a little pointless - ahem! *walks away sheepishly*
TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:Can't help but notice that today has seen people either stop backing or reduce their pledge. The gradual climb to just above $37,000 has dropped down to below that level now.
At least it's all still funded, I've pledged for a fair few terrain sprues and may add a couple more on.
(snip)
I'm so excited to get my box and to paint up these beauties. Thanks for all of your hard work. It would be brilliant to get the other stretch goals met for added jazz, but I will be happy with my starter set as it is if it doesn't happen. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
This is quite normal for a KS of our long duration. We fully expect a good 10 days or so of ticking up and down, with it picking up in the last week, so dont lose faith!
Every model is valuable, and most army builds are possible from a FOC perspective, so multiple boxes will not be a problem. You may find yourself limited tactically if you focus on one or two unit types, but at the same time you might find a strategy that works well with those unit types.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Has the $60 - A handful of plastic pledge level been increased with the extra plastic (handlers, scarecrows, hunters, shadow walkers, angel) that has gone into the box set?
The $60 offer has always just been that very limited selection of plastic - we wanted to give a cheap option for those who wanted a bit of plastic without committing to the main set. It does not and will not contain the full range of models, and has always had a lower content from the start of the KS. That option consists of plastic that is 100% production ready, and does not include any of the later-added plastic, and the models in that pledge are heavily demonstrated by our painters to give a very good idea of what to expect.
These guys look amazing! I was already a pretty big fan of the scarecrows, and this paintjob makes them look absolutely stellar.
I'm not the biggest fan of the shoulder-mounted gun, I just think it looks too big. I might convert it down to something smaller so it's more in-proportion with the rest of the robot.
I think moving the gun back slightly to weight it on the back more, and adding in a long barrel with a suppressor with some rod and tube would look freakin bad-ass. Posting it to be squatting a bit and leaning into the fire even more so!
I think it would look better coming out of a back supported system, coming up over the shoulder.
The current set up over the shoulder makes it look unbalanced, and slapping it onto the left arm, whether under slung or replacing the forearm like the right gun, would make it look too streamlined and less unique
Thanks for those replies about the glue earlier ya'll. I just use Zap-a-gap right now, so if there's something better I could be using, that's a good tip I might not have run across elsewhere. Appreciate it.
I will likely add some extra terrain sprues to my order before the final days on the KS, and in my own head I really am formulating a way to make my Space Donut Shop already along with other extremely important buildings that will need defending like a Space Pizza place and of course a Space Beer Barn. Oooh, maybe a Space Jiffy Lube. You know, for the robots. Hrmmm. Man, now I gotta go pick up some foamcore.
That other cement stuff won't melt foamcore will it?
Plastic cement (aka polystyrene cement) won't work on foamcore. It's just for gluing plastic to plastic. If you get a particularly weak one, it might glue the foam part of foamcore without dissilving too much of the foam, but I wouldn't count on it.
I use plastic cement for plastic to plastic, superglue for plastic to the paper part of the foamcore, and 'foam glue' (Link - This isn't the specific one I use, but similar stuff) for gluing plastic to the foam, foamcore to foamcore or for sealing the foam for painting.
The shoulder gun looks far forwards seen from this angle but we can't see the attachment to the back of the shoulder, that might make it look more balanced. However there are various ways to adapt it, as mentioned above.
We have some more fiction incoming in today's update - a short story about the Scarecrow to go with the longer Hunter story from a few days ago. You can read today's story by Tomas L. Martin directly in the Kickstarter update:
I think the issue comes from when you view the "barrel" of the gun. it's big and blocky, and we tend to forget it's the future.
The front "Barrel" of the gun may actually be some sort of lightweight material, That is extremely light, and doesn't cause the weapon to be off balance on the shoulder.
That being said, the biggest issue is it looks off balance, like the scarecrow should face plant. That's my only issue.
But as everyone's pointed out, there are tons of ways to modify this. So, there's no issues.
I'm still debating. Should I go a Megaman Theme with these? maybe a "Wizard of OZ - Strawman" theme? Or maybe I should go some sort of Horror theme, with rust and blood dripping off these half decayed Mechs?
To me it gives a hint of the classic 80s transformers vibe. More than a dozen variants were tried with 3D prints to determine the optimal size and shape of that gun, and we are definitely happy with how it looks on the model. It is a Maglock Railrifle, so the entire front is lightweight and mainly shielding. The placement is trivial to change and because there is good detail on all 6 sides, you can re-angle it to any position you'd like without it needing much effort, pivoting up being one of the easiest choices. The gun also nestles in to the shoulderpad in a neat fashion looking like part of the shoulder rather than being a standalone/swappable weapon if you choose to paint it that way.
I like the scarecrows, they're kind of creepy. They remind me of the Endermen from Minecraft. Will other options to buy miniatures become available? What if someone just wanted to buy a box of Epirians to tinker with and paint?
On the subject of poly cement: my recommendation would be Tamiya. They do a 40ml glass bottle, which is very thin, and it comes with a brush applicator, so you can be very sparing and precise with it. Never any excess or stringy bits like you get with tubes.
I use both liquid and the thicker poly cements; I find they both have their uses.
I remember using the thicker stuff on the old 4th ed Fantasy High Elf bowmen and using the stringiness to create quick bow strings, they actually looked pretty cool.
Was just looking through Kickstarter, thought it looked cool, found out it was made by you guys
Always wanted to be with something since the beginning, so why not?
I realize you probably can't talk about the other three factions too in detail, though I am curious as to what they entail; the Mechs look awesome, but neither of the factions really do it for me aesthetically (Not a knock on them, just not my personal taste).
Slarg232 wrote: Was just looking through Kickstarter, thought it looked cool, found out it was made by you guys
Always wanted to be with something since the beginning, so why not?
I realize you probably can't talk about the other three factions too in detail, though I am curious as to what they entail; the Mechs look awesome, but neither of the factions really do it for me aesthetically (Not a knock on them, just not my personal taste).
Anything particularily.... Chaotic, coming out?
From what I hear, We won't see a third army at least until the box set comes to stores. Even then It may be some time after for a third army.
It seems things are going to be well spaced out, and a third army won't come to be until it is well balanced.
Slarg232 wrote: Was just looking through Kickstarter, thought it looked cool, found out it was made by you guys
Always wanted to be with something since the beginning, so why not?
I realize you probably can't talk about the other three factions too in detail, though I am curious as to what they entail; the Mechs look awesome, but neither of the factions really do it for me aesthetically (Not a knock on them, just not my personal taste).
Anything particularily.... Chaotic, coming out?
From what I hear, We won't see a third army at least until the box set comes to stores. Even then It may be some time after for a third army.
It seems things are going to be well spaced out, and a third army won't come to be until it is well balanced.
Mostly worried about aesthetics.
A warped "Possessed" like faction would be rather BA. Just a thought.
And balance is of the utmost importance. I would rather not see any of the other armies till they are balanced indeed.
Knowing very little about the other factions as we do, I think the closest match to that description would be the Karists.
The Epirians being corporation contractors, the currently unrevealed Broken being rebels, and I'm not sure what the last faction has been called or what their "thing" is as the mention of them in the book was so brief, but they didn't seem to match that kind of thing.
The Karists are probably the closest match, using the unstable cybel energy and the constantly shifting and mutating Angels.
Tibbsy wrote: Knowing very little about the other factions as we do, I think the closest match to that description would be the Karists.
The Epirians being corporation contractors, the currently unrevealed Broken being rebels, and I'm not sure what the last faction has been called or what their "thing" is as the mention of them in the book was so brief, but they didn't seem to match that kind of thing.
The Karists are probably the closest match, using the unstable cybel energy and the constantly shifting and mutating Angels.
Fair enough
Though I meant like melting flesh/deformed "Warped Possessed" when I said that
Tibbsy wrote: Knowing very little about the other factions as we do, I think the closest match to that description would be the Karists.
The Epirians being corporation contractors, the currently unrevealed Broken being rebels, and I'm not sure what the last faction has been called or what their "thing" is as the mention of them in the book was so brief, but they didn't seem to match that kind of thing.
The Karists are probably the closest match, using the unstable cybel energy and the constantly shifting and mutating Angels.
Fair enough
Though I meant like melting flesh/deformed "Warped Possessed" when I said that
Supposedly there will be an alien faction eventually as well, and supposedly they will be very weird. So maybe they'll be your speed.
Grey Templar wrote: ED-209 looking more and more possible with those Suppressor Machineguns
The legs and feet are separate, right? So you can just swap the legs so that they are backwards, but attach the feet forwards-facing, and you're most of the way there.
Question though, as I don't want to dig through 65 pages: Was something said about the overall game mechanics? I hope the gameplay is somewhat more fluid than 40k, but that shouldn't be difficult.
Slarg232 wrote:I know you guys have heard this a lot, but the Hunter and Scarecrow designs were nailed. They look amazing.
They look simple to put together as well, which is a plus.
Also, what was that super glue holder you were using?
Thanks! That is Revell Contact Pro polystyrene cement. Definitely my favourite polystyrene cement applicator, though the tube does get clogged once in a while, it is pretty easy to clean out with a knife.
Kosake wrote:Okay, that does it. I'm pledging this...
Question though, as I don't want to dig through 65 pages: Was something said about the overall game mechanics? I hope the gameplay is somewhat more fluid than 40k, but that shouldn't be difficult.
Thanks! Here's an overview of what makes the game special (alternate activation, etc):
We've just added some bare plastic model photos as requested, along with two watch-us-build-the-model videos. Check it out on kickstarter!
Those weapons look pretty cool on that. I'm still not a fan of the itty bitty rockets on top (either the multiple launcher previously shown or these individual missiles) but the unpainted version somehow shows off the model a bit better for me despite the paint job being very nice. I'm not sure why.
We've just added some bare plastic model photos as requested, along with two watch-us-build-the-model videos. Check it out on kickstarter!
Those weapons look pretty cool on that. I'm still not a fan of the itty bitty rockets on top (either the multiple launcher previously shown or these individual missiles) but the unpainted version somehow shows off the model a bit better for me despite the paint job being very nice. I'm not sure why.
Oh man, that one looks so much more menacing! Very cool definitely going to build mine like that!!
yeah,
Those scarecrows look amazing. I think a force with a higher ratio of droids will be cool.
I hope we can pick up a few more scarecrows via add ons?
I wonder if we'll see some professional soldiers for the Epirians at some point? It'd be nice to see some grunt type humanoid drones besides just the Scarecrow and the Hunter.
And am I the only one that would like to see some mod parts to turn the hunter into some kind of loader mech?
From earlier in the thread, regarding the Epirian forces:
darrkespur wrote: The majority of the Foundation's fighting forces are robotic (and we still have more robots to show that I think people will like the look of), and Contractors are the supporting unit to the drones and bots, keeping them running and offering basic fire support. As well as the Contractor and robotic arms of the Foundation, the Epirians also have a dedicated military arm called SecDef which gets called in when the situation gets really dire. We haven't got any SecDef units in the Kickstarter but they are near the top of the list for expansion units in the future. I've written a post for one of our Kickstarter updates about the structure and history of both starting factions which should pop up in the next week or so.
Thank you! And you've taken us over the 40k stretch goal, so more suppression tokens for everyone! These ones are purple/pink in colour to match the cybel rounds used by the weapons of the Karist Enclave.
Next up is the free terrain sprue for all $90 pledges once we hit $45k. (It's already available as an add-on for $12)
It's a long way off, but I am still hoping for the 60k mark! I want those extra bases!
That hunter reminds me of Tau Crisis suits with all it's weaponry. I've always loved Model choices. With the way the model is built it shouldn't be hard to magnetize all the weapons too!
I am happy to see how balanced this is as well, Over all, I am glad I am getting two of these Hunters at least!
Our latest update shows some previously unrevealed artwork, and compiles some of the other artwork we've teased elsewhere.
Maelstrom's Edge is grounded in the depth of our universe. We have hundreds of thousands of words of background fleshed out already, but equally important are the visual representations of our universe. Today's update features some previously unrevealed artwork as well as a compilation of artwork that has been snuck in elsewhere as book covers, video teasers and so forth. Enjoy!
Vanguard-13 wrote: It's a long way off, but I am still hoping for the 60k mark! I want those extra bases!
I actually have a problem with this. Shouldn't the stretch goal for the bases - a component that will probably increase the quality of the game play itself - be lower than the somewhat superfluous audiobooks. While I enjoyed 'Transit', I would rather have the bases in my $90 pledge.
I would guess the audio book(s) are written (and possibly already recorded),
whereas it's been said that the base tooling has not been done so would require them to spend additional money (and depending on scheduling at the mould makers maybe even delay fulfilment of the whole thing)
infinite_array wrote: I actually have a problem with this. Shouldn't the stretch goal for the bases - a component that will probably increase the quality of the game play itself - be lower than the somewhat superfluous audiobooks. While I enjoyed 'Transit', I would rather have the bases in my $90 pledge.
Being more useful doesn't make them any cheaper to make...
Well, relatively speaking the fist is better at punching stuff than using any of its guns to do that. At least without purpose building a close combat weapon.
Hydraulic Fist (left arm only) - A massive hydraulic fist that can be used to tear or punch through even the toughest enemy at close-quarters.
You put hands on a robot for utility, not for punching. Look at all those tiny joints - do you really want to go around smashing them into things?
You are correct...the primary reason for a Hunter being given a fist is for utility purposes. However, for the game the representation of that fist is that it gives the Hunter more punch (pun intended) in close quarters fighting.
Hydraulic Fist (left arm only) - A massive hydraulic fist that can be used to tear or punch through even the toughest enemy at close-quarters.
You put hands on a robot for utility, not for punching. Look at all those tiny joints - do you really want to go around smashing them into things?
You are correct...the primary reason for a Hunter being given a fist is for utility purposes. However, for the game the representation of that fist is that it gives the Hunter more punch (pun intended) in close quarters fighting.
Well in Front mission game you had Knuckles (among others) for close combat, those would be easy to scratchbuilt
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
A fist is the worst thing you want to punch with. When dealing with a robotic arm, The best thing you can punch with is a spike or wedge. having the entire force of the punch impact in such a small location will do more damage, pierce more armor, and deal less damage to the mech doing the punching.
Knuckles are good, They provide a wedge. They also avoid damage to the sensitive fingers and instead put the pressure on the thumb and wrist of the mech.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.
Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.
Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.
Yes, you are quite right. Palm heel strikes are limited in direction, and they leave your fingers exposed for grabbing, Pulling, or otherwise painful experiences. However, Breaking a knuckle sounds more painful to me. I've taken a bit of Martial arts, Not as many years as you, but enough to grasp the concepts of strikes. I've been studying random sword styles since then.
I am not too familiar with American Boxing, But don't they use gloves to protect their hands? Preventing knuckles from straight impact, fingers from moving, etc. They Wrap up their hands as well. In my eyes, this is similar to what a "Knuckle" would do for a mech.
Well, I don't think you need to be a tough guy to research or discuss a topic. I think you have many valid points, I simply disagree here and there. There's no 'right' answer.
I will personally be at gencon attending meetings with distributors, but I'll do my best to wear my Spiral Arm Studios shirt throughout (might get a bit funky by day 4 though!), and will be happy to speak to people, and I'll almost certainly have some models and plastic with me to show off in the flesh to anyone who wants to see them.
Spiral Arm Studios wont have a stand there in 2015 as being a first time shower, you have to go in for a lottery to get a stand rather than having one guaranteed, and the prices of the combined stand and travel are unsustainably huge given half of the team are UK based. We'll be aiming for Adepticon and Salute next year certainly, and we'll be able to subsidise our gencon appearance with product sales next year, so in 2016 we'll be aiming for a stand there too.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.
Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.
I don't know the mechanics, but it feels like that your fist acts as a sort of 'shock absorber'. If I hit a solid object (like a door or wall) with the palm of my hand with the same force as with (a properly) closed fist, the strike with my palm will 'damage' my arm more then the one with the closed fist. Not to mention the damage to my hand if I break through the wall/door with the palm strike. A palm strike does have certain functions if you need to 'push' something that needs more of a solid surface then four grouped fingers (like a nose)...
Honestly, in robots/mecha I think that hitting something with a robotic fist is a bad idea, it's probably the most error prone part of the whole arm. But you can do cool things like grabbing things and throwing them or grappling... Warmachine did that well with integrating those mechanics into it's core rules.
There is bound to be a difference between a human and a meter fist. An met fist could even be engineered to absorb the shock of a blow; maybe the delicate joints fuse temporarily or it is made from some super-strong-metal.
Just like a human there is also a certain degree of choice for the target area of the blow depending upon direction, the target itself as well as any armour or equipment it carries. For example, you wouldn't have a problem punching someone in the gut but you would be more likely to strike a throat with the knife edge or your hand. On an armoured target the meter might punch through an access panel to then rip out the cables behind.
Lost Egg wrote: There is bound to be a difference between a human and a meter fist. An met fist could even be engineered to absorb the shock of a blow; maybe the delicate joints fuse temporarily or it is made from some super-strong-metal.
Just like a human there is also a certain degree of choice for the target area of the blow depending upon direction, the target itself as well as any armour or equipment it carries. For example, you wouldn't have a problem punching someone in the gut but you would be more likely to strike a throat with the knife edge or your hand. On an armoured target the meter might punch through an access panel to then rip out the cables behind.
I see your point. It would be rather beneficial to rip out internals from a penetrating hand strike. However, being a war machine, there are far more effective ways to do the same thing that don't need a fist. A claw can do it just as well, if not better then a flat fist.
I think we have to look at it as the following:
The Hunters were designed for war, but the designer probably put hands on it to begin with. Just as a "Here's the Default, so It can pick up weapons." sort of thing. And as the bots were made, the fist just sort of, got included as the 'cheapest' option. ((Granted, I'd argue that guns are cheaper then articulated fists. But it is the future, maybe the fists are surplus and the guns are high tech. who knows.)) So the fists are there simply because they wound up there.
That's how I am choosing to look at it. Because otherwise, An empty arm would be better then a fist. ((Cergorach makes a good point, that grappling, throwing, and pushing are all great Hand mechanics from Warmachine/Hoards. But I am not sure if we will see that here in MEdge)) An empty arm could be used as a shield, or a hammer. But I suppose with a fist, the hunter could pick up enemy weapons and attempt to use them....
Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the mechanics of the Hunter's fist, we're taking note of the discussion for the future, and there'll definitely be room for that kind of input in the beta. Epirian robots are also used outside of combat, so the flexibility of the Hunter's hand is useful for a number of other applications such as load lifting, manipulation of debris and operating logistical components in dangerous environments. The fist is just the in-game representation of that arm configuration, and the Maglock Chaingun will be the more powerful weapon in that loadout.
In today's Kickstarter update we have gone into more detail on the Epirian Drone sprue, which you can use to make 2 of either drone, either the aerial Firefly drone or the Spider, with 4 different gun options.
You can even, as one of our writers did at Salute, build a hybrid of the two, which we are tentatively calling the 'Grasshopper'! The ease in which both variants goes together is one of the advantages of the sliding core sprue technology we use. If people like the Grasshopper, we may add rules for it in the future, so please let us know what you think.
We've also reached the $40k stretch goal, which means every $90 box set pledge gets an additional set of tokens, with the suppression tokens in the colours of the cybel energy used by the weapons of the Karist Enclave. Thanks to everyone who has supported us so far!
Vanguard-13 wrote: I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.
Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.
I thought you just dazzled them with your amazing painting skills?
Vanguard-13 wrote: I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.
A fist is the worst thing you want to punch with. When dealing with a robotic arm, The best thing you can punch with is a spike or wedge. having the entire force of the punch impact in such a small location will do more damage, pierce more armor, and deal less damage to the mech doing the punching.
Knuckles are good, They provide a wedge. They also avoid damage to the sensitive fingers and instead put the pressure on the thumb and wrist of the mech.
But that's just my two cents, Sorry for the rant.
I think at some point you have to accept artistic license on what the giant robot's weapons are modeled as. Because "robot using giant mechanical finger to pull giant mechanical trigger" is really as silly as "robot using giant mechanical fingers to grip giant mechanical brass knuckles".
So if you assume that the gun has some sort of reasonable connecting mechanism to connect fire control through the hand, you can also assume that the "knuckle" has some way of locking the hand into position so that the force gets directed through the more reinforced parts of the structure instead of relying on the fingers themselves. I think that's sort of how the action figures dealt with securing the knuckle in the open hand, too.
I wonder if anyone can come up with a better "punching shell" for the hand to lock into in a fist-like configuration....
Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.
the_Armyman wrote: Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.
There will be a beta version of the rules distributed to all backers who want it soon after the Kickstarter ends. The ruleset and its mechanics are complete, but we are keen for people to play and give us feedback, particularly when it comes to balancing the factions and force-building.
the_Armyman wrote: Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.
There will be a beta version of the rules distributed to all backers who want it soon after the Kickstarter ends. The ruleset and its mechanics are complete, but we are keen for people to play and give us feedback, particularly when it comes to balancing the factions and force-building.
I can understand that, though it does make it a bit more difficult to make a blind investment in the game. Most of the models look great and the background is intriguing, but the last thing I need is a miniatures game that I don't enjoy playing.
If we're already a backer, will there be the ability to add to our pledge via a pledge manager after the KS ends? I appreciate the instant feedback and answers, guys
Here's the latest update, revealing some of the top tier authors we are working with at the moment!
Last summer several members of the team had the opportunity to attend WorldCon and give a sneak-peek of Maelstrom's Edge to some of the world's best science-fiction authors. The aim? To showcase our universe and convince them to lend their awesome storytelling talents to our project. Presenting the backdrop, artwork, and prototype models, it's no exaggeration to say that every author we pitched to came away impressed with both our vision and our commitment to building a long-lasting IP. Although we weren't able to snag every author we spoke to (largely on account of prior commitments--some of these folks are booked solid until late 2016!), we did manage to sign up a good mix of highly-acclaimed established voices and up-and-coming superstars.
So, we are delighted to announce that the following authors will be contributing original work to the Maelstrom's Edge universe:
Alastair Reynolds
With over a decade of experience as a professional astrophysicist to back up his writing chops, Alastair Reynolds is deservedly called the "reigning master of the intergalactic space opera", and brings a compelling edge of hard-SF to his unique brand of galaxy-spanning science fiction. Author of the Inhibitor trilogy that kicked off with the seismic Revelation Space and ended with the chilling Absolution Gap, Alastair's star has only risen over the last twenty years, and has been nominated for the prestigious Arthur C. Clarke Award three times.
Here's what he said about getting to play in the Maelstrom's Edge universe:
"Maelstrom's Edge is something different: an SF game universe put together with real originality and incorporating some genuinely clever and inventive thinking. There are enough worlds and stories waiting to be explored to last a lifetime..."
With his gritty blend of dark sci-fi, speculative science, and galaxy-spanning drama he is a perfect match for the Maelstrom's Edge universe and we're delighted to have him on board.
Aliette de Bodard
Nominated for multiple Hugo, Nebula, and BSFA awards, and winner of the Nebula and Locus awards, Aliette de Bodard is a highly-acclaimed author who will bring brilliant prose allied to poignant characters to the Maelstrom's Edge universe. Subverting the usual tropes for original twists, and substituting by-the-numbers heroes for vivid individuals deeply entwined with familial and cultural shackles, we are really excited to see what Aliette does with the apocalyptic backdrop of Maelstrom's Edge where some face utter calamity while others accrue riches beyond their wildest dreams.
In the Plague Year trilogy Jeff Carlson unleashed a nanoplague on humanity that killed all warm-blooded life below 10,000 feet. In his Frozen Sky novels humankind discovered a deadly species in the icy waters of Jupiter's ice moon, Europa. Who better than this Philip K. Dick Award Finalist to help bring the Maelstrom's Edge universe to gripping life? When we told him about the Maelstrom's Edge universe and invited him to spread his fictional wings he had the following to say:
"These days I write sci fi and tech thrillers that, I hope, are chock full of monsters and chills and cutting edge science. When I heard about Maelstrom’s Edge, I begged its designers to let me play in their sandbox. An unstoppable wave of hellish energy. Civilizations destroyed. Terraforming corporations, mech, refugees, cults, strange planets. Man, that’s what I do!!!!"
We've already had a sneak-peek at the story Jeff is planning, and it's shaping up to be something both beautiful and brutal.
With degrees in philosophy and artificial intelligence, a mother who was a gothic novelist, and a father who was a part-time conjurer, it is no exaggeration to say that Liz William's is one of the most original voices working in science fiction today. Short-listed for the Philip K. Dick Award for her novels no less than four times, Liz is also a master of the short form with her work appearing in many Year's Best anthologies. Writing dark and strange yet utterly compelling fiction, Liz's piece for our debut Maelstrom's Edge anthology is provisionally titled "Darkheart" and we can't wait to read it.
Author of the spectacular Seed, which Paolo Bacigalupi described as "A hungry beast of a book, rippling with slaughter and sex, powerhouse action, surreal post-human horrors and bigger-than-life heroes", Rob's work combines kinetic action, bleak landscapes, and characters drawn from the grimy underbelly of society. As such we think he is perfect to help us flesh out some of the stories happening at the margins of the Maelstrom's Edge universe, particularly those involving the Broken, our very own faction of survivalists who mix the high-tech and the squalid together with the violent and the tender.
Described by SFX Magazine as "A major new talent" on the release of her debut novel, Consorts of Heaven, Jaine Fenn has proceeded to flesh out her Hidden Empire series, charting seven-thousand years of future history as humankind adventures among the stars. Known for writing tense and fast-paced stories set in vivid locales, we felt Jaine would create the kind of gripping fiction perfectly suited to the universe of Maelstrom's Edge. For her first story in our universe, Jaine has set her sights on one of our currently unannounced factions - The Artarian Remnant.
Winner of a boatload of awards including Warner Aspect First Novel, Prix Aurora Award 2006, and Spectrum Award 2006, not to mention twice being shortlisted for the Philip K. Dick Award, Karin Lowachee's Warchild Universe explores the experience of fictionalised child soldiers learning to survive in a war-torn galaxy. When we asked her to expand on what drew her to Maelstrom's Edge universe she had the following to say:
"In a genre that can literally explore anything the imagination envisions, the opportunity to sink my teeth into a doomsday event of galactic proportions was too good to pass. Everything about Maelstrom's Edge speaks to my creative inclinations: high stakes, complex characters, an expansive setting, and a sense of wonder. The possibilities for exploration both external and internal are endless, and my fascination with the human condition—our frailties as well as our strengths—is something I will explore. A psychological close-up of what a random band of survivors on a frontier planet are willing and able to do to reach their destination—and presumably their saving grace to get off-world ahead of the Maelstrom—will take an unflinching look at the nature of selfishness, exploitation, compassion and love."
Karin's tale will explore a lawless, frontier-type world that has been abandoned by the corporations, leaving the population alone to face the coming Maelstrom.
Maelstrom's Edge has a comprehensive long term fiction plan which is receiving as much attention as the game itself. From day one we've been developing a universe which will grab the interest of anybody who has even a passing interest in Science Fiction, and with some of the best sci-fi authors in the world committing stories over the coming year, you can rest assured that Maelstrom's Edge will only be going from strength to strength.
Right now we've got two novels, faith and sacrifice available for purchase, and reviews have been positive:
"I just finished the second book & all I can say is wow... That was so much better than expected. You guys really made a top notch universe, on the level of infinity even, & I've only seen a glimpse. There's no way I'm not going in on the kick-starter if I can scrounge up the money. Really looking forward to more background! "
"I bought the first book out of curiosity and to throw a bit of support towards all the hard work you've all put in, but the world and writing are both really top notch stuff and will have me coming back for more. Even if I never play the game, the series will continue to be on the reading list"
"I finished up the first book yesterday and was quite impressed. I went in with the impression that it would have a good story, but be a bit pulpy and need some editing, but it's a nice tight story that didn't go overboard with jargon and re-iterating the same information over. Just ordered Sacrifice and will start on it tonight. "
We've got a bunch of short story compilations near completion and due out over the course of this year and the next, with a master compilation of stories by the authors listed in this update coming early next year too.
As with all of Maelstrom's Edge, we have poured our passion and excitement into everything we do, and cant wait to share more of our fiction with those of you who love to read! Thank you as always to all of our backers for your continued support and kind words.
Thanks bob, Salute leftover paperbacks will be post-KS and we dont have a specific date in mind for them just yet but will be sure to shout loudly when they are available.
Kilkrazy wrote: Alastair Reynolds is one of my favourite SF authors. He is a big talent and a major asset to the game universe, IMO.
Yurp. I can't spare cash to go in on the KS, but Reynolds is one of my favourite sci-fi authors so knowing he'll be involved with the fiction has bumped me up from maybe remembering to check it out again in a few months to active interest.
Tibbsy wrote: Well that card game extra was entirely unexpected.
What else are SAS hiding un-revealed up their sleeves, I wonder!
We like to reward our supporters!
As Tibbsy said, today we've added an extra bonus to the $90 pledge - a whole addiional game! This is a fast space-based card game set in the Maelstrom's Edge universe, where players compete to get resources and refugees off planets before they are destroyed by the Maelstrom.
The Maelstrom's Edge Card Game - Included in every box!
It is with great pleasure we can reveal our main secret gift for our backers which we've had up our sleeves for the past year. The Maelstrom's Edge card game! As of today, every $90 and up pledge will receive a copy of the card game for free!
The Maelstrom's Edge Card Game (note, tokens are not included, they are from the board game 'eons' by Gamer Nation)
Although the tabletop game is our focus for creating tactical, squad-based skirmish battles, the universe of Maelstrom's Edge is much bigger. We wanted to represent the larger scale conflict going on across planets and star systems, as factions compete for resources to build fleets so they can evacuate people from planets doomed by the Maelstrom. We've designed the Maelstrom's Edge card game to be a quick, complementary game to the miniatures game, giving context on an interstellar level to the battles being fought on the tabletop.
In the Maelstrom's Edge card game, you control a fleet in space which is in close proximity to a planetary system doomed by the Maelstrom. The planets are full of people desperately trying to flee, and are loaded with useful resources for long term space travel from water to ore to organics. Unfortunately for you, a rival faction controlled by your opponent is in the same system and wants the same resources that you do. You only have a finite number of ships to harvest resources, so some resources and people will inevitably need to be left behind. While you are busy harvesting resources, there is a constant flow of spacecraft coming from the planets, and they are ready to pledge their allegiance to whoever they reach first.
Manage your fleet, counter your opponent, stockpile resources and save a population, but beware the Maelstrom can strike randomly and at any time in the Maelstrom's Edge card game.
The Maelstrom's Edge tabletop game uses cards for missions and unit profiles. At the same time, we've spent a lot of time and money developing a large amount of high quality artwork, including a broad collection of spaceships for our universe. As card production gets notably cheaper per unit the more you make, it did not take much of a leap for us to realise that for very little extra cost, we could add an entire additional game to the Maelstrom's Edge boxed set in the form of a Maelstrom's Edge card game.
It is no secret when you go into a gaming store that large numbers of people are usually playing collectable card games, and with limited gaming space available in many places, a full on wargame is not always possible. The Maelstrom's Edge card game is designed to be a solution to that problem, allowing you to get your Maelstrom's Edge fix and bring in a wider number of gamers to play against, hopefully getting them interested in the tabletop game as well. Each game takes around 20 minutes to play, so when you don’t have time for a full game of Maelstrom's Edge, the card game can fill the gap. We've also been able to enjoy the Maelstrom's Edge card game in pubs, waiting rooms and similar locations where a full tabletop game would not be possible.
We started development on the supplementary card game about two years ago, and have been tinkering and tweaking it ever since. We are pretty happy with it now, but it still needs some more playtesting before we put the rules to the final print, and we'll be happy to share the rules with you soon. Our long term goal is to make this into a standalone gaming product, but in the short term, we'll be focused on getting the cards into as many people's hands as possible and developing a card game which, like everything else in the Maelstrom's Edge suite of products, stands the test of time. The card game's development is independent of the rest of Maelstrom's Edge, so has no impact on the schedule or quality of the tabletop game.
We'll be providing one set of cards per boxed set for free right now, including in the no-models boxed set option! The final card count is not yet fixed, but it should be around 35 or so. All text shown is placeholder content, so please allow for its simplicity. There are five types of card, so lets look at them now...
Planet Cards
The four planet cards
These are the heart of the game and four are provided and needed. Each planet generates a number of resources each turn, indicated by the number in the lower centre of the card. This can be modified by events such as a plague or rebellion. When resources cant be removed from a planet, they are stockpiled on the planet's card, building up ready for harvesting or destruction.
Syphon Cards Example Syphon Cards
Your syphon cards allow you to extract resources (including people) from a world. Planets are large enough that you and your opponent can syphon at the same time, but you only get three syphons in the entire game for mining, physical resources and population evacuation. If you dont defend your syphon ships, you are going to end up in a very difficult spot.
Military Cards
An example military card
Defense and offense are carried out by your military, which can consist of everything from small scout ships to full mobile starbases.
Modifier Cards
An example modifier card
Ships and planets can be buffed with modifier cards, altering their strength or other attributes, but every card comes with a cost and needs to be purchased with your precious resources.
Event Cards
The Maelstrom event card
Events can occur at any time in the game, and can decimate or multiply your plans. The most dangerous event of all is the arrival of the Maelstrom, which can happen twice per game. When the Maelstrom arrives, a random planet is permanantly destroyed along with all cards attached to it. The planet is chosen in a high stakes bidding war in which you and your opponent must each decide privately on a random number between 0 and 10, and then those numbers are added together. You then count along the planets, going back to the first after the last, and the planet you end on gets destroyed, leading to some very entertaining second-guessing and bluffing, and some very delicate resource and placement management. Do you put all eggs in one basket and hope for the best, or risk spreading yourself too thin to protect your syphons from assault?
The game ends when a player is left with three or fewer cards, and no more cards are left in the draw deck. The winner is the player with the most resources in their stockpile at the moment the game ends. You can usually only play two cards per turn, but certain events can allow you to change the timing of the end game to your advantage and catch your opponent short, from playing an extra card to depleting their resource stockpile.
We've had a lot of fun developing the Maelstrom's Edge card game, and have had instances of playtesters immediately wanting to play again after their first test game which bodes well for the quality of our rules. We are very excited to share this game with you and polish the development of it with our Kickstarter backers. Thank you for your support and we look forward to sharing more information about this game with you in the future! Please feel free to ask any questions you might have from this teaser and we'll answer them promptly.
Some of the cards included in the Maelstrom's Edge card game
Grey Templar wrote: Well we have yet to see the Angel. Or the Kadder Nova, the Shadowwalkers, or the Drone Handlers. Much sadface
The Angel is on its way in a future update! The models for the Kaddar Nova, Shadow Walkers and Drone Handlers are still in production so we won't be showing the sprues in the Kickstarter, but they are nearly finished.
Is the card game a one shot thing, or are you guys planning on expanding on that?
As with everything, it depends on the reception. We're only a small fledgling company, so the Kickstarter and initial retail launch are important to pay back our initial investment so we can start making expansions to our starter content. We have lots of plans for the future!
The card game is a standalone game that doesn't require any other components (and one set is enough for two players). If people enjoy it, we are certainly open to expand it in the future.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Getting Reynolds involved just turned this from a "maybe" to an "almost certainly" for me. Great going folks.
Between him (and the rest of the writers!) and the card game, this project is suddenly looking much more ambitious. Look at the new stories, the new art update and the paintings on the cards. Where was all of that on Day One??
Is anyone posting about this to SF literary sites or Boardgame Geek? I ask because "Alastair Reynolds and team of award winning writers and artists write stories for card game, tabletop game" seems like it would bring fresh eyes to the campaign. At least to me.
Has anyone talked to Brandon Sanderson? I understand he is a big fan of tabletop miniatures. He even had a line for the Mistborn series at one point. Maybe he'd be interested.
All I read from his list of novels was this: HOUSE OF SUNS (2008) Clarke shortlist. Six million years in the future, starfaring clones, tensions between human and robot metacivilisations, King Crimson jokes.
Pacific wrote: it's almost like it's being made by gamers, for gamers!
As opposed to what?
As opposed to game design as dictated by corporate policy to emphasise profit over quality?
And if thats all you've experienced, you won't be able to do anything with MEdge anyway... since you won't be able to do anything with your models in a GW Store.
And even they started as a Game made by Gamers for Gamers, and I'd imagine that the designers on staff are still gamers as well.
Hm... 12 days to go and 5k short of the terrain sprues. Come on people, bully, intimidate, blackmail or simply pester people until they're backing this!
They paint up quickly when black, that's for sure. The main reason we went with white for the official scheme is that black is a real pain to get flexible colour balance with in artwork, and is really hard to photograph without great lighting set ups.
It seems like this one has been floundering a bit. I have been on the edge (heh pun intended) in terms of pledging or not.
I figured I would list my concerns that I have been mulling over in my head and maybe we can apply some group think to help push the kickstarter forward.
Positives:
+ The background sounds awesome, its a really cool way to add in the feeling of apocalypse while still retaining some measure of hope. It is really really good!
+ Sprues shown for most models. No surprises in what will arrive in the mail when it ships. You will get quality stuff here!
Neutral:
+ Models in the pictures seem just good. I feel like what is missing is a *wow* model. Something that is a "must have."
+ Terrain sprue --- I know I will get flak for this, but hear me out. I have tons and tons of terrain bits including doors and what not so I do not really have a use for it. (I play a lot of infinity and have a stupid amount of terrain as I run the local tournaments and slow grow leagues --- I have multiple tables worth of terrain in my car at all times.). I would have preferred to see actual terrain elements.
+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.
+ Rules "similar" to other games -- The rules as presented remind me a lot of Bolt Action and Beyond the Gates of Antares. I play the former but not the later. There are a few differences, but they seem minor. It is hard to predict how minor they will be on the battlefield -- i.e. it may actually be drastic. I don't have good sense of how things will play out in a full game.
+ Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.
Negative:
+ Card game -- on the one hand it adds more value to the pledge, but on the other hand the team now has another thing they need to juggle. My worry is that either the card game or the main game will end up not polished. The team is small and I am not confident that they can juggle everything. I keep flip flopping on this one as it looks really interesting.
+ Pacing -- the kickstarter is very slow in its pacing. The initial excitement has dwindled and I am now looking at things more objectively.
+ Ho hum stretch goals (for me) -- I do not have anything to look forward to. I plan on using my own tokens to custom mades ones for suppression, dice I have tons of already in the D6 variety, terrain sprue for me is less appealing, and I typically use custom bases as well.
Just a quicky reply. The card game is a stand alone card game. NOT an expandable one (currently). So it's not something the crew HAS to focus on. It is essentially complete, and they don't have to touch it ever again.
The pacing has been good in my opinion. It's better that they promise stuff as they come. And not overload themselves at the start. They are doing what then can when they know they can.
Just a quicky reply. The card game is a stand alone card game. NOT an expandable one (currently). So it's not something the crew HAS to focus on. It is essentially complete, and they don't have to touch it ever again.
The pacing has been good in my opinion. It's better that they promise stuff as they come. And not overload themselves at the start. They are doing what then can when they know they can.
Ah, I did not realize it was already completed! I thought it was still in the works. Its good that it is not an expandable one.
+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.
If you pledge for the box set you will get two factions so you would be able to play, even if you are the only person in your area who decides to jump in.
zreef wrote: + Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.
The box set contains enough minis to play a smaller scale game, the ideal size is between 20 - 30 models according to the KS video.
+ Full rule set not finished / unavailable -- For smaller games I like rulesets that I can read fully before committing. Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.
If you pledge for the box set you will get two factions so you would be able to play, even if you are the only person in your area who decides to jump in.
zreef wrote: + Add ons: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality. I would love to see something like: 200$ gets you an X point list. If I am going to sell some of my friends on the game, I need to let them know a realistic number to expect to be able to play a reasonable game (i.e. Infinity 150-175, Bolt Action 200-225, Warhammer/40k 350-400). This is important for budgeting, not just the kickstarter but looking forward to the future as well.
The box set contains enough minis to play a smaller scale game, the ideal size is between 20 - 30 models according to the KS video.
According to stuff they said earlier, the boxed set is about 2/3 the size of what they envision a "normal" game size being. With the caveat that there is still some balance tweaking to do, and upgrades can change point values and such.
The Epirians also, IIRC from what was said, more points in the boxed set before upgrades. With upgrades the two sides can even out, but the Epirians will have less upgrade freedom than the Karists.
So a "normal" sized game, building on the boxed set, might have another 6 Contractors and one more squad of drones. The Karists might add another squad of troopers and Minnows.
zreef wrote: It seems like this one has been floundering a bit.
I'm not sure I agree with the term floundering. That implies that it is struggling to keep funded or falls in and out being funded. It is is at 200% of its amount which is great. I know we all want to see Kickstarters grow big, unlock great stretch goals (it is part of the excitement) but a lot of projects aren't really necessary for that.
zreef wrote: + Models in the pictures seem just good. I feel like what is missing is a *wow* model. Something that is a "must have."
I can somewhat agree. I'm hoping the wow comes with some of the newer units which weren't created yet, we only have concept art for them. I will say though the Hunter is pretty wow.. but I like robots. ^_^
zreef wrote: I would have preferred to see actual terrain elements.
What do you mean by terrain elements, like what would you have preferred to see?
zreef wrote: Likely I need to pick up two faction as no one else in my area will jump on such a game. Giving out the rules for free gets many people to try the game. Here we have a sense of what the rules will be like, but not the full picture.
I think the rules will be fine, they'll be coming along. The base rules give you a pretty good idea so far what is capable. The good news about the base box, it comes with two factions so you already have everything you'll need to play with the core box.
zreef wrote: I have no idea how many troops I need to play the game, so I am not sure how much of an investment the game is in actuality.
Honestly beyond the base game, you shouldn't need anything else. Given your other concerns it would be better to get the core set, play it out, see if you have friends interested before looking at investing further. There is no need to invest largely in the beginning, other than to help further the KS. Usually the best savings in the KS is from the base game and any exclusives if there are any. Everything else tends to come out better getting it later.
Just wondering if adding on the minatures only pledge to a boxset would create a more 'average' sized game? Thats if it would be possible to add it on in the pm.
Although doubling up on box sets would probably be better value in the long run.
seems a shame you couldn't do some bundle deal addons, like mantic did on DZ:I would be much more easier to handle production wise and I'm sure would boost the ks total towards the bases stretch goal.
It is reasonable to view the project as "foundering" because the number of backers/amount of pledges does not seem commensurate with how 'big' of a project the creators seem to be pushing.
Most of the funding came in a big push on day one, and it dropped off very quickly. The campaign doesn't have that nice, CMoN curve to it that, quite frankly, backers expect from a big, ambitious project.
Gradual taper, steady stream, big push. That's what folks look for. In contrast, ME had a "Dakka friends" day 1 and has since been dragging along with intermittent growth, and even some days of losses.
The campaign is obviously successful thus far, but it seems to have the character of a modest, small scale campaign from a garage business. That is a little incongruous with the way Spiral Arm has been presenting the product.
Hence the "foundering" observation really shouldn't be surprising, and is contextually apropos.
Maybe it has something to do with the project not needing the KS to happen. Its happening with or without it. So maybe people are being a little more cautious than normal because they can. They can wait till the rules are finalized or it hits retail. Its not something that needs support now or its not going to happen, which can feed into the rush you might associate with gambling that KS projects can feed.
I would also guess that a lot of people are waiting till the end when the next paycheck clears before officially backing. Sure, you can back out any time till the end date, but some people might not like having their payment info hanging in limbo. And maybe they want to see all the updates before deciding. And lets be honest, Wargamers are procrastinators.
Hey guys! I'm so glad my Karists have people more excited about the army! When models start hitting hobby desks out there I'll be sure to do a run down of how I painted them up! I even have some ideas for additional detailing that haven't quite made it into the army just yet but will be easy but striking against that black plate
I'm extremely excited to see the boys hitting the KS updates at long last and hope to keep adding to them soon.
I think part of the problem with the "Wow" factor is the nature of at least one of the factions. The Epirians are lunchpail sci fi contractors. Their drones look bulky and clunky, like the retro-fitted cropdusters they are. It's appropriate to them, but the faction is by nature pretty plain Jane. The Hunter bots don't wow me, either, to be honest - they're a good, solid, very useful sci-fi robot design, but there's nothing very original about them. They'd blend in with any standard human sci-fi force. Which, again, is kind of the nature of the Epirian beast. Not so much Wow, but easy to slot in just about anywhere and look the part they're meant to play.
I like the Karists, but I'd be lying if I said I think they're the best power-armored troopers I've seen, or that Angel minnows are the most menacing, creepy alien designs out there. There's still potential there for their unrevealed models to Wow me, of course. I'm hoping the remaining models like the shadow walker, adult angel, guy who can detonate, etc. tie the whole faction together and put it over the top.
Otherwise, I'd say SAS has made a good, solid start with good, solid models - models that, all things considered, I want to own and will be staying in the campaign for. But to be honest, I do hope for better concept design work from SAS in the future. Compare the scarecrows to Afterlife's CRANE war drones, for example, or ME's flying drones with Afterlife's flying drones, and in my opinion you see how SAS could up their concept art / design game. Those CRANE war drones are bulky, military, boxy, etc., but they manage to be all of that while also looking kick-ass.
We've taken a specific approach with the 'wow' factor of the models. Every model is designed to complement the others, with much more shared design DNA across each faction than you'd see in almost any other wargame. From obvious things like the karist triple eye and glow locations, to much more subtle things such as identical angles and textures.
Each faction is designed to look fantastic when put together as a mixed arms force, with small, man sized and larger models framing each other and bringing out complementary details in a way that might not be obvious, but makes the whole thing a really pleasing aesthetic whole. If you are of the opinion that the models look good, then once you have a whole army together, it is going to look pretty special.
Finally, the large angel is being revealed next week, and above all else that is the model which got people saying 'wow' at Salute (almost universally!) which is why we've saved that one until the end
Regarding the few comments about kickstarter progress and speed, we are very happy with how things are progressing. While we'd of course love to have high 6 figures, we are keeping things straightforward to ensure we can deliver on time and to expectations, ensure we dont cripple our chances of widespread retail distribution and avoid falling into the logistics and shipping traps which have killed so many other large kickstarters. We are very happy, because there are very very few new sci-fi IP kickstarters which came out of nowhere and succeeded. Just off the top of my head there was Thon, War Prime, Fallen Frontiers (first kickstarter), Cyntopia, GoA and more who launched and failed to secure funding first time. Getting funded is the most important thing, not chasing records, and then maximising the number of backers is more important than the final dollar value as it provides a more stable base for us to build on. Delivering the best possible value and quality to our backers, and rewarding their loyalty and trust over the long term is our way forwards, and backers can rest assured that we will remember the faith they've put in us, and we will be looking after them and placing a special status on them for the very long term.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote: We've taken a specific approach with the 'wow' factor of the models. Every model is designed to complement the others, with much more shared design DNA across each faction than you'd see in almost any other wargame. From obvious things like the karist triple eye and glow locations, to much more subtle things such as identical angles and textures.
Each faction is designed to look fantastic when put together as a mixed arms force, with small, man sized and larger models framing each other and bringing out complementary details in a way that might not be obvious, but makes the whole thing a really pleasing aesthetic whole. If you are of the opinion that the models look good, then once you have a whole army together, it is going to look pretty special.
Finally, the large angel is being revealed next week, and above all else that is the model which got people saying 'wow' at Salute (almost universally!) which is why we've saved that one until the end
Regarding the few comments about kickstarter progress and speed, we are very happy with how things are progressing. While we'd of course love to have high 6 figures, we are keeping things straightforward to ensure we can deliver on time and to expectations, ensure we dont cripple our chances of widespread retail distribution and avoid falling into the logistics and shipping traps which have killed so many other large kickstarters. We are very happy, because there are very very few new sci-fi IP kickstarters which came out of nowhere and succeeded. Just off the top of my head there was Thon, War Prime, Fallen Frontiers (first kickstarter), Cyntopia, GoA and more who launched and failed to secure funding first time. Getting funded is the most important thing, not chasing records, and then maximising the number of backers is more important than the final dollar value as it provides a more stable base for us to build on. Delivering the best possible value and quality to our backers, and rewarding their loyalty and trust over the long term is our way forwards, and backers can rest assured that we will remember the faith they've put in us, and we will be looking after them and placing a special status on them for the very long term.
Grey Templar wrote: Maybe it has something to do with the project not needing the KS to happen. Its happening with or without it. So maybe people are being a little more cautious than normal because they can. They can wait till the rules are finalized or it hits retail. Its not something that needs support now or its not going to happen, which can feed into the rush you might associate with gambling that KS projects can feed.
I would also guess that a lot of people are waiting till the end when the next paycheck clears before officially backing. Sure, you can back out any time till the end date, but some people might not like having their payment info hanging in limbo. And maybe they want to see all the updates before deciding. And lets be honest, Wargamers are procrastinators.
But that's the exact same situation with a Zombicide campaign, for example. It is a reality for lots of campaigns.
Spiral Arm Studios USA wrote:we will eventually do some female Epirian Contractors but it is a long way off as parts would not so interchangeable with the male models, reducing potential poses. To counter the large amount of male figures we have, we've tried to ensure there are a lot of strong, inspiring and most importantly non-sexualised female characters in our fiction. It is our absolute goal to have strong female representation in the models, but the economic realities make that a long term goal for now.
Thanks for that Inspector #264, to add to that, we are extremely eager to create a range of female models as our universe is one of equality (everyone is doomed by the Maelstrom after all!), but we have to work on things one step at a time as we gear up.
How much is all this in Canadian funds? I have no clue what I am looking at when I see $$$. Is that in US funds or Canadian funds when I view it?
This will be a BIG deal if I back or not. Prices seem reasonable but then again all US prices seem reasonable when I am on the GW site, get excited then see I am on the wrong site.
Davor wrote: How much is all this in Canadian funds? I have no clue what I am looking at when I see $$$. Is that in US funds or Canadian funds when I view it?
This will be a BIG deal if I back or not. Prices seem reasonable but then again all US prices seem reasonable when I am on the GW site, get excited then see I am on the wrong site.
Its going to be approximately $110 Canadian dollars to back the $90USD level. Depending on how the exchange rate is when the KS closes and accounts get charged.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote: Thanks for that Inspector #264, to add to that, we are extremely eager to create a range of female models as our universe is one of equality (everyone is doomed by the Maelstrom after all!), but we have to work on things one step at a time as we gear up.
I'm fine with waiting if it means you do it right, but I want to point out that there wasn't anything stopping you from simply alternating - making male troopers and female contractors, and then next time around making female troopers and male contractors, for example.
How can you tell if any of the Karists are male or female? They're wearing full body armor, so unless the helmet is off you can't tell the difference. Just like real armor in the real world. And there are many alternative heads available.
Ordinarily I wouldn't really care about having female troopers represented, but in this case, I look forward to it when SAS can do it. And the sole reason for that is that they've sworn off doing any compromising T&A space bikini bs. Sounds like when they do female troopers, they'll be the kind I could actually use.
God Bless America! Land of the Free, the Proud, the Prudes!
Grey Templar wrote: How can you tell if any of the Karists are male or female?
Because men and women are different shapes. Even a flat-chested woman who works out will still have a woman-shaped skeleton, with a narrower chest and broader hips.
Grey Templar wrote: How can you tell if any of the Karists are male or female?
Because men and women are different shapes. Even a flat-chested woman who works out will still have a woman-shaped skeleton, with a narrower chest and broader hips.
Not at the 28mm scale she won't. Especially when you've got really heavy body armor or even power armor.
Grey Templar wrote: How can you tell if any of the Karists are male or female?
Because men and women are different shapes. Even a flat-chested woman who works out will still have a woman-shaped skeleton, with a narrower chest and broader hips.
Not at the 28mm scale she won't. Especially when you've got really heavy body armor or even power armor.
In which case, I'll go back to my standard response: if you can't tell the difference, why the feth do you care?
I dislike people getting outraged over a very minor thing and trying to impose an overtly sexist viewpoint.
It is almost impossible to make a female miniature in the 28mm scale without it being overly sexual, and sexist. And any miniature at that scale with realistic proportions and heavy armor(like the Karists use) cannot have the minor male/female bone structure differences. An armored male and armored female character at 28mm scale are virtually impossible to tell apart without exaggerated sexual characteristics, like fictional "boob plate". We're talking a half millimeter or so difference in the size of these hypothetical sculpts to account for pelvis/shoulder differences. That isn't detail you could pick out except by holding the miniatures up to your face and doing a very close examination.
So really, all you can possibly do to say a Karist is a female is to give it a female head, because at this level of detail there is no difference.
I disagree. Proportions in 28mm can be exaggerated enough to convey the difference without the need for overt sexualization. For some reason it always seems to come down to: 'must look like men' vs 'must wear bikini mail'.
Do note I didn't say impossible, just almost impossible. Its a very difficult line to walk, and really in this case its better to be safe than sorry. Or just provide some female heads and have identical bodies, because with armor and gender neutral clothing there really is virtually no perceptible difference outside the head.
Plus you have to make business decisions. Is it really worth the extra cost of sculpting female versions of existing kits just to please a vocal minority who demands equal representation? Almost certainly not.
I'd love to have some variety in my collection, but it really wouldn't be much of a visual difference to Karists due to their armor. So it really only matters for the Epirians. And SAS has much more important things to worry about than having gender equality in their miniatures, like getting the game off the ground.
Yeah, i agree with and understand the concept of the business (in this case SAS) needing to evaluate the return on making female minis. But as for the difficulty involved (non-financial side of it) i don't think its that 'almost impossible' to do. The first minis that spring to mind are the eisenkern stormtroopers vs panzerjagers. The differences are small but still noticable, without the need for the panzerjagers to wear boobplates, g-strings or the like. Then you get other examples like victoria miniatures arcardian rifles vs gw cadians. It seems to be less a problem of being able to do it, and more a problem of wanting to do it.
Grey Templar wrote: How can you tell if any of the Karists are male or female?
Because men and women are different shapes. Even a flat-chested woman who works out will still have a woman-shaped skeleton, with a narrower chest and broader hips.
Not at the 28mm scale she won't. Especially when you've got really heavy body armor or even power armor.
In which case, I'll go back to my standard response: if you can't tell the difference, why the feth do you care?
This. I always find it odd that wanting a female miniature to be readily identifiable as female is the 'straw', as it were. That is, heroic 28mm scale (or, indeed, most scales) exaggerate features to carry things across: a moment's glance at the existing Epirian figures shows they aren't exactly true-to-life miniaturization.
That said, let's be realistic about the chances of seeing female miniatures as part of this kickstarter campaign: the chance is basically zero. The argument about how they should look can almost certainly be safely tabled till some future date.
Buzzsaw wrote: That said, let's be realistic about the chances of seeing female miniatures as part of this kickstarter campaign: the chance is basically zero. The argument about how they should look can almost certainly be safely tabled till some future date.
I don't expect there to be female miniatures for another two years, at least. But with SAS we have to preempt the official discussion, because judging by what they've said about the Keddar Nova and so on, SAS does not want to reveal any new model until it's too late for feedback to be any use.
Buzzsaw wrote: That said, let's be realistic about the chances of seeing female miniatures as part of this kickstarter campaign: the chance is basically zero. The argument about how they should look can almost certainly be safely tabled till some future date.
I don't expect there to be female miniatures for another two years, at least. But with SAS we have to preempt the official discussion, because judging by what they've said about the Keddar Nova and so on, SAS does not want to reveal any new model until it's too late for feedback to be any use.
It's a point better made elsewhere, since development of female miniatures is unlikely to happen over the course of the kickstarter this thread is devoted to...
Any chance you can fix the 'Switch Theme' dropdown? It overlaps the MEdge banner and I keep getting taken to the Kickstarter instead of being able to switch Dakka theme. This is on Chrome on Windows and on Mac. Thanks!
JohnnyHell wrote: Any chance you can fix the 'Switch Theme' dropdown? It overlaps the MEdge banner and I keep getting taken to the Kickstarter instead of being able to switch Dakka theme. This is on Chrome on Windows and on Mac. Thanks!
The banner is fairly dark, but if you look you can see a small black [x] on the top left corner. That disables the banner and lets you use all the menus again.
Torga_DW wrote: Yeah, i agree with and understand the concept of the business (in this case SAS) needing to evaluate the return on making female minis. But as for the difficulty involved (non-financial side of it) i don't think its that 'almost impossible' to do. The first minis that spring to mind are the eisenkern stormtroopers vs panzerjagers. The differences are small but still noticable, without the need for the panzerjagers to wear boobplates, g-strings or the like. Then you get other examples like victoria miniatures arcardian rifles vs gw cadians. It seems to be less a problem of being able to do it, and more a problem of wanting to do it.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Exalted. As you said, setting aside the business aspect of it, making identifiable female models in 28mm is not a terribly daunting task. You really just need a few visual cues. For example, with the panzerjagers, the armor itself is subtly suggestive of femininity with smoother lines, longer curves, smaller shoulder plates, etc.
Today's update on kickstarter goes into a fair amount of detail about the structure of our missions, how to actually win a game, and how our objectives are laid out. Take a look and share your thoughts!
insaniak wrote: It's a point better made elsewhere, since development of female miniatures is unlikely to happen over the course of the kickstarter this thread is devoted to...
No, the point was that SAS has never posted any designs or renders until it was far too late to act on any feedback. We should be discussing ALL of their future minis well in advance to avoid the Epirian problem mistakes of the past.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote: Today's update on kickstarter goes into a fair amount of detail about the structure of our missions, how to actually win a game, and how our objectives are laid out. Take a look and share your thoughts!
I like the approach to objectives. It gives some nice variation, and opportunity to build custom objective markers.
I assume from the wording that objectives will have a standard size of some kind.
insaniak wrote: It's a point better made elsewhere, since development of female miniatures is unlikely to happen over the course of the kickstarter this thread is devoted to...
No, the point was that SAS has never posted any designs or renders until it was far too late to act on any feedback. We should be discussing ALL of their future minis well in advance to avoid the Epirian problem mistakes of the past.
And my point was to do that in a different thread, because this thread is for discussion of the Kickstarter.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote: Today's update on kickstarter goes into a fair amount of detail about the structure of our missions, how to actually win a game, and how our objectives are laid out. Take a look and share your thoughts!
I like the approach to objectives. It gives some nice variation, and opportunity to build custom objective markers.
I assume from the wording that objectives will have a standard size of some kind.
I'm glad you like them! There are standard guidelines for most of the objectives, with the faction specific objectives being included on the token sheet which comes in the boxed set.
Yup, 44 and 52. The moulds are created with electrosparking which leaves a rough finish (the type of finish you see on the top of the base usually), and then the edges get polished out to make them smooth, adding that missing 0.1mm and rounding things up. If you measure plastic bases with a rough top and smooth sides, you'll find 0.1-1mm discrepancies for just that reason, even amongst bases in the same range!
Davor wrote: How much is all this in Canadian funds? I have no clue what I am looking at when I see $$$. Is that in US funds or Canadian funds when I view it?
This will be a BIG deal if I back or not. Prices seem reasonable but then again all US prices seem reasonable when I am on the GW site, get excited then see I am on the wrong site.
Thanks. I hate it when companies don't do the conversions. If they can't do the conversions for us Canadians and then I have to worry about shipping costs and what now, I will forget this kick starter and wish them well, hope they do well and once it's in my Local Store, then I will pick it up.
For me, I don't want to be worrying about I have to pay 20% more now or maybe 30% later. I wish there was a set price for Canadians so I know what my budget will be and I can expect to pay that price. So right now, it's in fluctuation on how much I have to pay, and I don't like that uncertainty.
Davor wrote: So right now, it's in fluctuation on how much I have to pay, ...
Welcome to buying stuff on the internet.
It's a little unreasonable to expect companies to release specific pricing for any country other than the one they are based in, precisely because of that fluctuation.
Davor, unfortunately Kickstarter forces companies to choose a single currency for their rewards, otherwise I'm sure Spiral Arm would have set a price for pounds, euros, and canadian dollars.
Also, unless you live in such happy places as the Ukraine or Syria where the national currency can go straight to hell overnight, these fluctuations are in the range of maybe 5%. So at worst you'll be paying 105 bucks instead of 100. Considering that ME has a great value allready, this shouldn't keep you from pledging. I mean, just compare it to our alltime favourite GW. The same investment will give you what? 6 Meganobz? With no rules, no tokens, no dice, no terrain, no nothing.
Kick on Manage your Pledge. It will then let you select a new rewards level, which determines the base amount you will be charged. You can then edit the actual amount with extra money for add ons.
Today's update is a good one - a preview of some of the great things our friends have been making with our early production test terrain sprues. Some inspired things!
We've got a new terrain assembly video in this update too, so you can see a building go from simple components to assembled before your eyes.
I already had 2 of the terrain sprues in my pledge but after seeing that terrain I've upped it to 4, and I'm hoping we'll break the stretch goal that puts one in the box too, because that's given me some fantastic ideas.
Thanks Tibbsy! We've been amazed by the buildings which we've seen made by other people already, and are really excited to see what gets made once these are in as many people's hands as possible!
One thing we've noticed as well, is that having those consistent stylistic elements across different battlefields really create a distinct Maelstrom's Edge terrain flavour, no matter how wacky the building shape, design or features. Really cool to see
Tibbsy wrote: I already had 2 of the terrain sprues in my pledge but after seeing that terrain I've upped it to 4, and I'm hoping we'll break the stretch goal that puts one in the box too, because that's given me some fantastic ideas.
I too have decided to double the number of terrain sprues I'm getting. This stuff is just fabulous.
The buildings look really cool, I think I'll be making some similar plus some pipes running around and across the buildings for a ghosts of mars feel. I'm already considering a mining frontier town, just need some grungy scifi mining equipment and vehicles now.
Kosake wrote: Also, unless you live in such happy places as the Ukraine or Syria where the national currency can go straight to hell overnight, these fluctuations are in the range of maybe 5%. So at worst you'll be paying 105 bucks instead of 100. Considering that ME has a great value allready, this shouldn't keep you from pledging. I mean, just compare it to our alltime favourite GW. The same investment will give you what? 6 Meganobz? With no rules, no tokens, no dice, no terrain, no nothing.
That is a rather unfair comparison. The more apropos comparison would be Dark Vengeance to the ME box set.
But speaking of Nobs, do we have targeted MSRP numbers for all the various components of the ME box set? Say I wanted two more hunters, what is the MSRP for them? Do they come two to a box, or just one? Same goes for all the troops for that matter. What about the ME box itself, was a target MSRP announced (I might have missed it)?
The new terrain sprue buildings do look cool … maybe I need to revise my opinion on the terrain sprue.
JB wrote: The buildings with the rain gutter tops are amazing. How many sprues were used for them?
1 sprue will seemingly comfortably make two of those gutter buildings along with some foamcore or cardboard for padding.
I made the gutter and electrical box buildings. I used 6 sprues to make the ten buildings with plenty of bits left over. I could have done it with 4 if I used less doors. (almost every building has two doors)
I took some photos during the build and I'll make a thread to detail how I built these. They were done super quick 2 days building and 3 days painting.
I plan on adding some ruins and scatter terrain and my Medge board will be awesome!!
Looks great, especially like the 120 degree bending buildings, would be cool to have a bunch of those set up as the edge of a mini settlement with some other buildings in the centre.
Kosake wrote: Also, unless you live in such happy places as the Ukraine or Syria where the national currency can go straight to hell overnight, these fluctuations are in the range of maybe 5%. So at worst you'll be paying 105 bucks instead of 100. Considering that ME has a great value allready, this shouldn't keep you from pledging. I mean, just compare it to our alltime favourite GW. The same investment will give you what? 6 Meganobz? With no rules, no tokens, no dice, no terrain, no nothing.
That is a rather unfair comparison. The more apropos comparison would be Dark Vengeance to the ME box set.
But speaking of Nobs, do we have targeted MSRP numbers for all the various components of the ME box set? Say I wanted two more hunters, what is the MSRP for them? Do they come two to a box, or just one? Same goes for all the troops for that matter. What about the ME box itself, was a target MSRP announced (I might have missed it)?
The new terrain sprue buildings do look cool … maybe I need to revise my opinion on the terrain sprue.
Well, of course I selected those to make a point. DV is decent when you see the other GW prices, but then again, bolt action has even more models for the same cost.
Ohhh snap! I must say, I've enjoyed backing this from the beginning, as there's always a good chance I find out that the deal gets a bit sweeter- and it looks like today is one of those days!
Wouldn't it make sense to add the possibility of having building sprues in the box? Whet the appetite sorta thing? You include it in a separate little baggy inside with a little fold-out of, say, pictures of Panic's buildings?
The angel will probably make it, though I could live with another squad of Karist troopers. Where's the fun in playing heavily armored, drugged up fanatics if you don't have enough for a decent mob?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to add the possibility of having building sprues in the box? Whet the appetite sorta thing? You include it in a separate little baggy inside with a little fold-out of, say, pictures of Panic's buildings?
One of the building sprues will be added to the box set if we hit the $45,000 stretch goal (which is not far away!)
Decided to back for just the digital rules personally. I don't like enough of the models to make it feel worth while for me personally but I do like the sound of the rules.
How many people are going to sell off or trade off their Karrists / Eperians?
Well if anyone is planning on getting rid of some Epirians I'll happily take them off their hands!
As would I.
I cast my vote for more Contractors. Though I doubt they'll win. Now to figure out how to rig the voting
Yeah, I fear those will come in if not last then second or third-to last. They are just too simple to replace with about any light-armored infantry model.
Maybe waiting to show it to try and push more late $$?
Best be a hell of a model if that's the case. The KS has been hovering around the $40k (ironically) mark for the last 10 days at least with backers joining and dropping out:
So, unless a killer something is planned, I reckon this'll reach 60-70k tops. Now, at the risk of getting told off, I must say that in addition to the previously discussed model aesthetics and background and their lack of appeal to me, this KS has lacked the pizzazz and fun that usually comes with some of the other KS I've seen. This usually helps to sweep up fringe backers. I think the limited ability to have organic conversation and the, uh, shepherding of discussion, killed any remaining interest I may have had. I feel like I have to tread carefully if I want to post in ME threads...
zedmeister wrote: I feel like I have to tread carefully if I want to post in ME threads...
Agreed.
The estimation of $60k-70k is perhaps a bit generous (given Kicktraqs trends and projections) unless there's something added/shown that really helps tip the scales.
zedmeister wrote: I feel like I have to tread carefully if I want to post in ME threads...
Agreed.
The estimation of $60k-70k is perhaps a bit generous (given Kicktraqs trends and projections) unless there's something added/shown that really helps tip the scales.
The angel could be that, maybe?
In which case I wonder why not show it upfront to keep pledgers and make it overall more "wow"-worthy. I mean, how often do we moan about GW not telling anything in advance and obstructing any sensible planning? Why not start with the big guns? Except if the Model is still heavily worked on. Better to keep it secret until you have something good to present than starting out with bad rep for unfinished or poorly made models. It takes ages to change the street cred (positively), so better start off smaller than start with a negative image.
It's basically done (bar the fine tuning/polishing of the mould) from what I hear,
otherwise those that visited salute would not have been able to see it (and tease us who didn't go with not being allowed to photograph it)... all reports were positive
I think it's just that they need to keep stuff back to show regularly especially in a long campaign by this one which can't count on regular unlocks, and it does seem to be working as although there is a fair amount of churn there's not been any big negative days in this 'dead' middle bit
I'd imagine the preference for Angels and Hunters comes from wanting to get the most value for the money. They'll likely be more expensive kits to buy individually, after all.
I gambled and voted Adult Angel, but without a model reveal to back it up, it's no surprise that the Hunter is favored to win this race. So for all of you out there who were all like, "Yo dawg, mechanical for the win! Organic aliens are for wussies!", it wasn't a fair fight, so it doesn't count and I'm not going to cry about it.
zedmeister wrote: I feel like I have to tread carefully if I want to post in ME threads...
Agreed.
The estimation of $60k-70k is perhaps a bit generous (given Kicktraqs trends and projections) unless there's something added/shown that really helps tip the scales.
The angel could be that, maybe?
If we didn't stray 'off topic' so much, surely the total would be higher. Backers respect a firm hand.
Frankly, at this point ME needs to wow the socks off of every backer at delivery for that critical word of mouth to push retail sales. They've already tried their hand at a big marketing blitz for the kickstarter and it does not seem to have scored a direct hit.
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Vermonter wrote: I'd imagine the preference for Angels and Hunters comes from wanting to get the most value for the money. They'll likely be more expensive kits to buy individually, after all.
I gambled and voted Adult Angel, but without a model reveal to back it up, it's no surprise that the Hunter is favored to win this race. So for all of you out there who were all like, "Yo dawg, mechanical for the win! Organic aliens are for wussies!", it wasn't a fair fight, so it doesn't count and I'm not going to cry about it.
I would prefer well-done organic aliens over drones and mecha. While I love the angel minnows, many people do not, and are likely voting based on their feelings toward the existing organics vs the existing mechanicals. I think the hunter is a high-value mini that has mass market appeal, so it might be better for ME in the long run to include an extra 'sexy robot' than a risky 'marmite mini'.
I have to admit I'm surprised to see so many votes for the Hunters and a model that's not even been completely revealed yet. I'd much rather see more basic stuff in the box instead of big units that will presumably be something of a centrepiece for the armies.
Nick Ellingworth wrote: I have to admit I'm surprised to see so many votes for the Hunters and a model that's not even been completely revealed yet. I'd much rather see more basic stuff in the box instead of big units that will presumably be something of a centrepiece for the armies.
A good portion of votes are most likely for what they determine will give them the most perceived value. Smaller units although needed are probably assumed to be cheaper than larger units. I am surprised to see a lot of the votes for something that isn't completely revealed as well though. It probably has to do that people can perceive it being used for a demon or what they can get the most use out of maybe.
I went for the angel in the interest of box balance: the markets seem a little light at the moment and I'd like to be able to play using all the models and with equal sides
insaniak wrote:The dimensions are shown on the image on the kickstarter page
LOL
insaniak wrote:It's a little unreasonable to expect companies to release specific pricing for any country other than the one they are based in, precisely because of that fluctuation.
I am hoping you will know this, are SAS going to be doing something funky like shipping it all to the combat company and then splitting it from there? That said, UK to AU shipping is pretty cheap as it is I guess.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote:Today's update is extra plastic! We are adding an extra sprue to every boxed set!
ALRIGHT WHAT ARE WE VOTI... oh, Angel it is then.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Wouldn't it make sense to add the possibility of having building sprues in the box? Whet the appetite sorta thing? You include it in a separate little baggy inside with a little fold-out of, say, pictures of Panic's buildings?
One of the building sprues will be added to the box set if we hit the $45,000 stretch goal (which is not far away!)
I swear I remember the KS getting a building sprue in the box already, but then again I have been drinking a lot.
I also don't want my building sprue, so if someone else wants one, let me know
Changed my vote from the angel to the hunter, mostly cos it's very cool but I believe the angel is mono pose and the hunter has enough options for me to make three unique loadouts.
I've voted for the Mature Angel. I figured two Hunters will be enough for me and this way the two sides seem more balanced to me. (From a 'how they look on the table' view rather than rules! )
I am hoping you will know this, are SAS going to be doing something funky like shipping it all to the combat company and then splitting it from there? That said, UK to AU shipping is pretty cheap as it is I guess.
Not finalised yet. Shipping aarangements for the southern hemisphere will depend somewhat on final numbers, but going by the backer numbers in the Kickstarter so far, I would guess that they will ship from the UK or US.
edlowe wrote:Changed my vote from the angel to the hunter, mostly cos it's very cool but I believe the angel is mono pose and the hunter has enough options for me to make three unique loadouts.
I am hoping you will know this, are SAS going to be doing something funky like shipping it all to the combat company and then splitting it from there? That said, UK to AU shipping is pretty cheap as it is I guess.
Not finalised yet. Shipping aarangements for the southern hemisphere will depend somewhat on final numbers, but going by the backer numbers in the Kickstarter so far, I would guess that they will ship from the UK or US.
Yes, and I really meant exactly what I said, upgrade the base box to include a building sprue once it hits retail. You will sell those by the bundles. They won't make elastic bands big enough to hold the piles people will want.
Edit- damn reading time. I'm talking about the building sprue in the base box.
Its not a bad idea. Although they'll sell bundles of them just by themselves. I'm sure even if the game tanked the company could still make money with the terrain sprues.
Arms are interchangeable with four options. Legs are not directly interchangeable but dont take a lot of work to swap around and we've got some good examples of that going up soon enough.
It is with great pleasure that we can at long last reveal the Karist's flagship model - The Angel.
The Karist Angel
The fully mature Angel adult is a truly terrifying creature to encounter in the flesh. Dwarfing even the tallest of humans, the Angel is a tapering mass of writhing tentacles, gelatinous membranes, and bristled claws, smelling of something akin to sulphur pits, and when encountered on the battlefield, usually ravenous with hunger and withdrawal. The last sight many adversaries experience is the Angel's trembling, pain-wracked appendages closing around them as their terrifying 6 eyed and gaping mawed visage draws ever closer.
The Angel uses its abilities to manipulate gravitic fields to mould void gel into an extension of its body. Typically, this takes the form of appendages for movement, manipulators, attack or flight control. The Mature Angel is commonly seen in a ground-based, heavier-set form which has many remarkable variants.
Being a creature which naturally lives in space, Angels seem unsure of themselves on the ground. Out of their natural environment, they seem to eschew a singular form and instead create limbs and means of locomotion based purely on the needs of the moment. Some have been observed scuttling, crab like, others as towering tripods, some more akin to a roiling gelatinous mass with random limbs striking quickly and then receding back into the mass. The only consistency on the ground is the glossy black appearance of the creature, and the ever present 6 eyed visage and gaping, long slit of a mouth glowing with roiling cybel energy.
In addition to striking attacks, if they have been sufficiently fed prior to a battle, they are capable of expelling portions of cybel energy as a powerful projectile via their mouths. The energy packet is focused and directed by a temporary and taxing extension of the creature's gravitic field to keep the projectile from reacting with common matter before it hits its target. It is believed that observation and analysis of this phenomenon is what in fact led to the Enclave's own cybel energy weapons.
In game, the Mature Angel can switch form between turns, granting it the powers of flight with a winged form, a combat form which massively increases armour and weaponry, or a slasher form of writhing tentacles granting it powerful bonuses to close combat attack. A token is used to track the state of the Angel throughout the game, but we've no doubt we'll see some talented hobbyists converting a model for each form!
Angels are so radically different from all other known organisms in the galaxy, that they do not count as being either organic or inorganic models, rendering them immune to EMP attacks and biological attacks.
The Angel stands approximately 60mm tall without a base, and taller still at around 68mm if the tentacles on the back are counted. It towers over every other model in the boxed set, including the Epirian Hunter:
The Angel is another sprue which uses high quality sliding cores to remove the need for seams, and despite being a highly organic shape, is realised in clean and crisp plastic. Here's what an Angel looks like freshly assembled:
The model is a breeze to put together, with very precise slots, practically no mould lines and minimal injection points to clean. Here's a photograph of the Sprue itself:
The Angel comes with four claw options - enough to allow for a small amount of variance if you have multiple Angels in your force. The legs have fixed joints and slots to minimise seams, but are fairly easy to move around, and if you've ever wanted to try a spot of sculpting, the smooth curves and ability to add tentacles anywhere make it a great model to work with. Angels have a solid core, and then the rest of their body is made of void gel, which can take any form and therefore allows any type of sculpting or conversion that you might want to try.
One Angel is present in every single boxed set and as per yesterday's update, we are adding another sprue of our backer's communal choice, so you can potentially get another Angel for free by voting for it here.
It looks very static, and looks to have only one pose (or minor variations of the one) which is not how I'd imagine it would actually be. I'm sure with some conversion work it could look fantastic (I have ideas for a serpentine one with wings ) but as it is out-of-the-box I don't much like it.
I personally prefer neutral poses, that said it is just a tad static feeling.
I like the concept, but the execution maybe could have had bit more detail.
Hm... At first I was "meh" but it grew on my while still reading your post. Definitely bonus points for the idea as such, something much more interesting than the default gribblies from planet X. I bet it will be a pain to paint though (for me), since I'm no good at directional lighting, blending, painting greys and organic models in general. Ugh. At least a good reason to crawl out of the comfort zone and learn all that I guess..?
Yeah, Not a huge fan, although it's alright... Compared to, say, one of the big Tyranid gribblies with their design, detail and posing, it comes out quite short. Looks way better than the Minnows though so hopefully future bugs will be even cooler!
I think it looks pretty cool, I'll definitely be adding some uhu glue dripps and slime stretch between the limbs, probably a purple transparency effect to represent its gel like nature.
I think it would look pretty good with the arms and legs swapped around, the new arms would look like tentacles.
From the sprue, the face appears separate, so you could also lean the main body forward and fit the eyes further upwards, giving it a more menacing stance.
I think the Angel shows promise... But being such a static model for a non-static creature seems kind of odd.
I think the Angel will get a lot more love once some kit-bashes, or custom Angels are put up on display.
But as it is... Stock Build... It leaves something to be desired. But, as always, I think these guys have something up their sleeves. Maybe we'll see other builds of the Angel shortly!
As this KS has gone on, I have been more and more impressed with the company ethos and vision. The Mature Angel today has just bowled me over. I take everyone's points on board and it could have been LESS static, but I love that it's not heavy based and large body. It looks elegant and sinister at the same time. I've been through the dripping gore-fest aliens of cinema and TV and want to watch something that has presence WITHOUT relying on gimic - fully achieved with this model. I hope to goodness the Angel gets into the base box. I've flipped from Karist-backer to Epirian-backer and back again (no pun intended). I have no idea which army I will enjoy building more?! I will definitely relish every moment though.
Thanks again SAS
post edited because I typed too fast and may have caused confusion
I didn't notice until now, the tokens in the game are square.
Does this mean they are compatible with Mod Cubes? Or is it simply a coincidence?
((I understand RiTides has the token artwork and will release a set of MEdge tokens at some point. but if MEdge's tokens ALREADY fit into mod cubes, That would be awesome!!))
TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote:As this KS has gone on, I have been more and more impressed with the company ethos and vision. The Mature Angel today has just bowled me over. I take everyone's points on board and it could have been more static, but I love that it's not heavy based and large body. It looks elegant and sinister at the same time. I've been through the dripping gore-fest aliens of cinema and TV and want to watch something that has presence with relying on gimic - fully achieved with this model. I hope to goodness the Angel gets into the base box. I've flipped from Karist-backer to Epirian-backer and back again (no pun intended). I have no idea which army I will enjoy building more?! I will definitely relish every moment though.
Thanks again SAS
Thanks Just wanted to point out based on your comment that Angel is already in the basic box - the voting option is to just add a second one!
Vanguard-13 wrote:I didn't notice until now, the tokens in the game are square.
Does this mean they are compatible with Mod Cubes? Or is it simply a coincidence?
((I understand RiTides has the token artwork and will release a set of MEdge tokens at some point. but if MEdge's tokens ALREADY fit into mod cubes, That would be awesome!!))
The tokens are slightly larger than the modcube slots, and we'll likely be shifting the corners to be a little bit more subtly curved to reduce the chances of dog-earring through gameplay.
TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote: As this KS has gone on, I have been more and more impressed with the company ethos and vision. The Mature Angel today has just bowled me over. I take everyone's points on board and it could have been more static, but I love that it's not heavy based and large body. It looks elegant and sinister at the same time. I've been through the dripping gore-fest aliens of cinema and TV and want to watch something that has presence with relying on gimic - fully achieved with this model. I hope to goodness the Angel gets into the base box. I've flipped from Karist-backer to Epirian-backer and back again (no pun intended). I have no idea which army I will enjoy building more?! I will definitely relish every moment though.
Thanks again SAS
"Bowled over?"
Wow...Strong.
It's a bit disheartening to read that so many people think "it could be a good model....once we kitbash it." Maybe I'm crazy, but that doesn't seem to me that we should have to kitbash a kit to make it good.....
To each his own....but man...not what I was expecting out of the Angel.
And the flesh backpack is an....interesting design choice.
Thanks Just wanted to point out based on your comment that Angel is already in the basic box - the voting option is to just add a second one!
I know. But why stop with just one I want more Angels, more, more, more!!!! Ahem! Sorry, not sure what happened there. I love the Hunter and can see loads of options for it, but would love to have two Angels in my army (or 4) and not sure it makes sense to have 3 (or 6) Hunters with only 1 (or 2) Angels.
NB You'll note that the numbers quoted about refer to the number I am currently pledging for pre-brackets and in the brackets the reality that I will likely pledge for a second by the end of this - just don't tell the wife
TP^DC Deputy Manager wrote: As this KS has gone on, I have been more and more impressed with the company ethos and vision. The Mature Angel today has just bowled me over. I take everyone's points on board and it could have been more static, but I love that it's not heavy based and large body. It looks elegant and sinister at the same time. I've been through the dripping gore-fest aliens of cinema and TV and want to watch something that has presence with relying on gimic - fully achieved with this model. I hope to goodness the Angel gets into the base box. I've flipped from Karist-backer to Epirian-backer and back again (no pun intended). I have no idea which army I will enjoy building more?! I will definitely relish every moment though.
Thanks again SAS
"Bowled over?"
Wow...Strong.
It's a bit disheartening to read that so many people think "it could be a good model....once we kitbash it." Maybe I'm crazy, but that doesn't seem to me that we should have to kitbash a kit to make it good.....
To each his own....but man...not what I was expecting out of the Angel.
And the flesh backpack is an....interesting design choice.
As you say, each to his own.
I've edited the original post because I note I'd put typos in as seen in the quote above
