I always feel a bit sorry for the Angels. Natively they are happily suckling off tiny cybel ruptures way out of the reach of civilisation, turned into huge, ravenously hungry half berserk killing machines by the Karists.
Stormphoenix wrote: I always feel a bit sorry for the Angels. Natively they are happily suckling off tiny cybel ruptures way out of the reach of civilisation, turned into huge, ravenously hungry half berserk killing machines by the Karists.
That was my reaction too. Call the RSPCA for Angel cruelty!!
Was great to meet and chat to some of you earlier and thanks for the sneak peeks at the larger models... Sooooo nice! For those that didn't make it today, you are going to love these. The sprues are also pieces of genius, you have to really hunt for casting lines on the plastics, even on the rough draft of the baby Angels! I can also happily say that the models look significantly better in person, some of those photos do not do them justice. The camera decided to play up, so I don't think I got any photos :(
I am hoping to see pics eventually, but can people without cameras at least let us know what models are on display? Just the adult angels, or some robots as well?
And from what I understand so far, the Karists look pretty villainous for a "grey" faction. Bringing the Maelstrom closer to an inhabited world, corrupting innocent alien wildlife, forcibly converting people by the sword? I still like them best; villains are fun, after all. But the fact that they're the ones bringing the Maelstrom to Zycanthus ahead of schedule doesn't put them in a very ambiguous light.
Sure, you can argue that from their perspective they're saving souls, but from the Empire's perspective, the average stormtrooper thought he was maintaining order in the galaxy, and they still played the evil music whenever they showed up.
Well, the corporation is practically outting workers indeptured servitude and promising them a way of the planet to escape the Maelstrom and then they just pack up and leave those same workers stranded on the planet to die because profit is more important than a planet up of people that couldn't afford a ticket. Why transport people if you could transport cargo!
At least the Karists kill you because they care about you!
There were some human sized drones (Scarecrows) and some larger ones. Having a brain fail at the moment though and have forgotten the names. The Scarecrow models were very delicate.
As for the karists. The priests want to enlighten people in a peaceful way and save as many people as possible. The military wing is... Well. More military
Likewise, as D-USA mentioned, not all of the Epirians are quite as nice as the contractors in the second book.
Stormphoenix wrote: I always feel a bit sorry for the Angels. Natively they are happily suckling off tiny cybel ruptures way out of the reach of civilisation, turned into huge, ravenously hungry half berserk killing machines by the Karists.
I dunno man, training them to be vicious space attack bats doesn't necessarily make them any less cute and cuddly. I'm sure they get 3 square meals a day now and learn fun Karist games like "Fetch the Epirian Contractors leg", "Catch the Epirian gun-drone", and "Roll over." Plus I'm sure they're adorable once they learn the "sit" command and have to balance a contractor on their nose. "Who's a cute wittle guy, yes you are wittle minnow."
Whew, all finished! Man that was a long, long day.
Thanks to every Dakka user who stopped by and said hi. Also hello to anyone (hopefully) finding this thread now after seeing the models for the first time. Time for a stiff drink and a good night's sleep.
Epirian Scarecrows are briefly visible on the BOW video above, but I couldn't see them well enough to tell if I liked them or not. No sign of the adult Angels or Hunters yet, as far as I could tell. Too bad BOW didn't zoom in on the minnows, at least. They were present, but never in focus. (I've seen the official release photos of them, but more views are always better.)
d-usa wrote: Well, the corporation is practically outting workers indeptured servitude and promising them a way of the planet to escape the Maelstrom and then they just pack up and leave those same workers stranded on the planet to die because profit is more important than a planet up of people that couldn't afford a ticket. Why transport people if you could transport cargo!
At least the Karists kill you because they care about you!
Man, that's unfortunate. I find it a bit of a turn off in Sci Fi when everyone's an donkey-cave.
d-usa wrote: Well, the corporation is practically outting workers indeptured servitude and promising them a way of the planet to escape the Maelstrom and then they just pack up and leave those same workers stranded on the planet to die because profit is more important than a planet up of people that couldn't afford a ticket. Why transport people if you could transport cargo!
At least the Karists kill you because they care about you!
Man, that's unfortunate. I find it a bit of a turn off in Sci Fi when everyone's an donkey-cave.
Actually I think that's the best part. The whole point of having armies with alot of leeway within their own factions is having a reason for internal conflict. I see this as a win storywise. If I wanna play my faction of the Epirians as a group who are disenfranchised with the overall group and think they aren't getting a ticket off planet, that works perfectly to fight other Epirians who have in turn been promised a ticket out if they just defend the corporation from the traitors.
No one is particularly a bad guy in that scenario (maybe the corporation if they don't keep their word), but the point is that a story can be generated without one group necessarily being the "white knights of virtue and all things good" while the other team can only be labeled as despicable. If I decide I "do" wanna play my guys as very bad men, then fine, but I'm not obligated to see it that way.
Medium of Death wrote: So if this is "hard sci-fi" we aren't going to see Lovecraftian horrors from beyond the dark edge of the Maelstrom?.
In a way I think they have shown some Lovecraftian elements with the Angels. Yeah, maybe not from beyond the edge of the maelstrom, but they still have that cosmic nightmare look.
True.
Hopefully anything else we see any other aliens in the future they will be just as "alien" as what we've seen.
I like the lankiness and shape of the scarecrows, I think they could also serve well in a different scale, maybe 6/10/15mm since the 'face' could double up as a larger mech's cockpit in a smaller scale.
A neat size too, bigger than infantry but not up to that terminator size band, largeish infantry rather than big
I'm not sure if we'll have a lot of option as to what we get in the kickstarter, but I could certainly see myself using that MEdge subscription for 10% off to pick up some more bots in the future, or miniature market or whatever.
*edit*
As for aliens, in the books we've heard of a pretty wide range. Some kind of 2-3 foot furry ball thing with 6 prehensile tails, a couple of different locations had some aliens with triple jointed arms and split pelvises whose faces involved six eyes and those terrifying pointy-toothed round mouths.
I find the scarecrows a bit dull, to be honest, as I do the entire Epirian faction so far. But in this case I don't think that's a bad thing. Human security forces that look more workmanlike / lowtech / etc. are very useful in sci fi settings and narratives, particularly when they find themselves in way over their heads due to a sudden xeno incursion, mutant viral outbreak, etc. (ala Aliens, Deadspace, etc.) I don't own the kind of basic sci fi security force a company might use on an isolated outpost; mostly I've got a bunch of fearless, genhanced super-soldiers outfitted with super-tech. Basically the kind of guys you call in during chapter 2 or a sequel, after a situation has spun out of control and the original population is already decimated. The Epirians strike me much more as your standard "Chapter 1" guys, who think they're well-equipped but are caught off guard when the $hit first hits the fan, and that's often the best part of the story.
GW's imperial guard have been around forever, I know, but I've never liked their sculpts or Gothic leanings much. These Epirians don't blow me away with raw visual coolness, but they and their drones look down-to-earth and, as I've said before, extremely useful and easy to slot in to a variety of scenarios. With the Karists being my primary draw, the Epirians as the faction I "have to take" to buy in aren't bad at all.
So back to the scarecrows . . . I'll need to see more of them, but I might want to remove / mod their shoulder guns, as they potentially look awkward. Otherwise they look workable and plausible, and likely of middling effectiveness on the battlefield rather than ultimate killing machines, all of which suits me fine.
this video actually changed my mind a bit on the contractors, they look a lot better when they aren't all wearing the caps in my opinion. The scarecrows look nice i admit when i first saw the video i thought the scarecrows had a "hooked beak/nose" head and i thought well thats different. But the picture now show me its a shoulder mounted weapon lol
i know its really early to ask but is it possible to convert models with 3rd party bits if we were to attend a tournament or something of the sort?
Vermonter wrote: I find the scarecrows a bit dull, to be honest, as I do the entire Epirian faction so far. But in this case I don't think that's a bad thing. Human security forces that look more workmanlike / lowtech / etc. are very useful in sci fi settings and narratives, particularly when they find themselves in way over their heads due to a sudden xeno incursion, mutant viral outbreak, etc. (ala Aliens, Deadspace, etc.) I don't own the kind of basic sci fi security force a company might use on an isolated outpost; mostly I've got a bunch of fearless, genhanced super-soldiers outfitted with super-tech. Basically the kind of guys you call in during chapter 2 or a sequel, after a situation has spun out of control and the original population is already decimated. The Epirians strike me much more as your standard "Chapter 1" guys, who think they're well-equipped but are caught off guard when the $hit first hits the fan, and that's often the best part of the story.
GW's imperial guard have been around forever, I know, but I've never liked their sculpts or Gothic leanings much. These Epirians don't blow me away with raw visual coolness, but they and their drones look down-to-earth and, as I've said before, extremely useful and easy to slot in to a variety of scenarios. With the Karists being my primary draw, the Epirians as the faction I "have to take" to buy in aren't bad at all.
This is how I feel too. While the Epirians didn't initially knock my socks off (and there are a few issues with the design I'm not in love with, like the kneepads), for my money they're still probably the best generic sci-fi troopers I've seen yet, especially in hard plastic. For many years GW's Cadians were the gold standard for my money, but when you see them side by side it's clear to me that the Epirians are better proportioned and more realistic, while still maintaining enough heroic proportion that I think I'll be comfortable painting them and they'll look good on the tabletop; not just in close-ups painted by experts, like I think a lot of other sculpts (many of Rackham's old ones, or Infinity's current ones) have been over the years. I'm getting genuinely excited to build and paint some.
Maybe he means near-future or unarmored? But then they are up against the UAMC, the Corporation Marines, DUST troops, and the upcoming plastic Terminator Genysis Resistance.
That all leaves out AT-43, which has heroic scale and plastic going for it, along with vehicles.
Mannahnin wrote: for my money they're still probably the best generic sci-fi troopers I've seen yet, .
I'm curious how you're defining "generic."
What disqualifies the Sedition Wars Vanguard Samaritans or the Mantic Enforcers from being "generic sci-fi." Or the Dreamforge stuff?
He said "best", not "only".
The generic nature is putting me off though. I want flavor and uniqueness. The Scarecrows look like old Battletech minis, which is not a good thing imho.
As it is I've dropped my pledge. Maybe I'll get into the game as more diversity is introduced. As it stands, it's a bit bland for me.
Will probably get buried, but just wanted to say thanks to the guys at salute. Slightly surreal feeling meeting Yakface!
Delighted with the books and great to talk to the writers about their plans for the extended universive. Also nice to see the models up close and I think the sneak peak models will go down well.
cerealkiller195 wrote: i know its really early to ask but is it possible to convert models with 3rd party bits if we were to attend a tournament or something of the sort?
Nothing has been decided about tournament structure or rules yet.
Vermonter wrote: I find the scarecrows a bit dull, to be honest, as I do the entire Epirian faction so far. But in this case I don't think that's a bad thing. Human security forces that look more workmanlike / lowtech / etc. are very useful in sci fi settings and narratives, particularly when they find themselves in way over their heads due to a sudden xeno incursion, mutant viral outbreak, etc. (ala Aliens, Deadspace, etc.) I don't own the kind of basic sci fi security force a company might use on an isolated outpost; mostly I've got a bunch of fearless, genhanced super-soldiers outfitted with super-tech. Basically the kind of guys you call in during chapter 2 or a sequel, after a situation has spun out of control and the original population is already decimated. The Epirians strike me much more as your standard "Chapter 1" guys, who think they're well-equipped but are caught off guard when the $hit first hits the fan, and that's often the best part of the story.
Chapter 1 guys. I like that. And, that's exactly what they are. They look like the sort guys that should be getting gunned down by Schwarzenegger in Total Recall or something. I actually really like that aspect about them. The robots are just icing on the cake. I'd love to see some industrial styled conversions of them at some point.
once I'm home from Italy, I plan on pledging.
Also, was it ever mentioned if the paperback versions of the books will be available on Amazon? I'm another of those dinosaurs that prefers physical books over electronic ones.
All chaps are by definition assless. Lots of people still wear them for jobs where they provide useful protection. I've worn leather welder's pants and can easily see how chaps would be more practical for some applications.
Mannahnin wrote: for my money they're still probably the best generic sci-fi troopers I've seen yet, .
I'm curious how you're defining "generic."
What disqualifies the Sedition Wars Vanguard Samaritans or the Mantic Enforcers from being "generic sci-fi." Or the Dreamforge stuff?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Maybe he means near-future or unarmored? But then they are up against the UAMC, the Corporation Marines, DUST troops, and the upcoming plastic Terminator Genysis Resistance.
That all leaves out AT-43, which has heroic scale and plastic going for it, along with vehicles.
The Vanguard are nice, and generic in the sense of not feeling married to a particular setting, but that level of armor is above what I'm used to seeing or conceptualizing from most sci-fi movies/books I've read, aside from the ones with power armor, of course. I guess Colonial Marines from Aliens are kind of a universal (or at least for me) touchstone for Generic Future SoldierTM. The Mantic Enforcers; are those actually robots? They're nice minis, though. Dreamforge are the ones with the big Darth Vader helmets, right? They are very neat Stormtroopers, but would at least need a head swap to feel "generic". I love their Valkir heavy troops, though. UAMC look very good, aside from the helmets, which I kind of hate. DUST guys are pretty nice, but definitely feel like they come from their real-world countries, which is a strike against in the "generic" column. I think the AT-43 dudes may be my favorite of the ones you guys named. The pics I'm finding online definitely look nicer than the minis I remember playing with from that game when it first came out.
I take your point that there are a lot more options out there nowadays than there were when the Cadians came out. How many of those are in multipart HIPS, for the modeling/conversion/durability value? And my lack of awareness there may be a result of my largely being a GW-centric minis gamer, so that is undoubtedly coloring my perceptions about the quality of the Epirians. I was very favorably impressed by the side by side comparisons, in terms of proportion and look at a little more of a distance,
endtransmission wrote: Ok, so I did get one photo for the day that showcases the Scarecrows really nicely
It is unlikely anyone will have photos of the two larger models though as they were in a carry case under the table
I can confirm that the 2 hidden big models were amazing and I bet most will love them!
Oh! the minis in general look much much better in real life, internet pictures of what you have seen so far do not do them justice.
Great minis! Curious about the rules.
You know what those scare crows remind me of? Did anyone play System Shock 2 at all? You remember the killer robots that would pop out of the walls in the enginarium zone, and they'd use up damn near all your ammo to take down, leaving you with little more than your pipe wrench to then deal with the mutants?
Maaaaaaaan that takes me back. I love those durn robots. In the dark they'd remind me of being attacked by robo-slender man. Frakin great, I love it.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
Great to see these models in real life today, and to see our Dakka overlords - regretfully I didn't get a chance to converse or introduce myself as they were pretty slammed by others when I found the stand - missed it completely on my first pass of the hall... Note: you need a bigger banner to advertise our presence I bet you guys are totally wrecked though after that day...
I will say though, these models look way, way, way better up close and the 'boxy' Epirian contractors, really aren't that boxy. It's amazing the difference between real-life and computer screen...
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I don't get it either. For what Spiral is trying to do with making these guys look like average Joes on the Job, chaps were a good choice. I think it might've been better to not cut out the crotch as much, but other than that they get the point across very well. Could always say the chaps are just Kevlar or something, thrown on over the work clothes, or the company just decided to make welding, bulletproof, and welding chaps all in one.
There are other perfectly valid things to dislike about them, like the shoulder armor or maybe the hats and the lack of poses, but the chaps I felt were a good choice and helped get the point across of what they're supposed to be. I realize that the nature of this hobby means most people wouldn't be familiar with the variety of jobs that chaps require, but its still funny to watch.
There are other perfectly valid things to dislike about them, like the shoulder armor or maybe the hats and the lack of poses, but the chaps I felt were a good choice and helped get the point across of what they're supposed to be. I realize that the nature of this hobby means most people wouldn't be familiar with the variety of jobs that chaps require, but its still funny to watch.
To be fair, I think many of the complaints aren't about the utility of said chaps, but that they're wearing them at all and they think they are unnecessary.
Got a closer look at the models at salute today and I have to say sorry but I was not impressed. The contractors proportions were all over the place and the guns looked bad the scarecrows looked really dull. The religious heavy weapon dudes wrists looked really really bad and not just the camp one, the drones looked passable ok but as my friend said they would look more at home in a 10mm game. I really wanted to like these as I think Dakka Dakka is the best forum out here but I really feel you should go back to the drawing board, sorry guys.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can understand that 99% of the people who wear chaps wear them for work, but still think of that more memorable 1% whenever I hear the word "chaps" because life is just more fun that way. Plus, I lived in the Bay Area for 6 years, so I'm more familiar with the people who wear them for play.
The same thing happened with the Eisenkern. No matter how functional the armor actually was, the 'naked tush' look is what drew the eyes.
Must be different exposure. I see the chaps and just see engineers or industrial workers, which seems to be the intended vibe of the Epicarians anyway.
What I'm really excited to see are the other factions. I realize they are a ways away, but I feel that having multiple factors really helps draw in customers by offering different identities people can latch onto and minimizing the blue-on-blue effect you get in games where there are only two factions. It's probably one of 40k's best features, even if half that game is just space marines with different paint jobs.
Also really excited to see what MEdge does with intelligent alien races.
Barzam wrote: [
Also, was it ever mentioned if the paperback versions of the books will be available on Amazon? I'm another of those dinosaurs that prefers physical books over electronic ones.
They might sell some of the extras after Salute. If I get them, I'll let you read them after I finish. If you get them and I don't, I'd love to borrow or buy them off you.
I pledged for the boxed set and I am hoping we get to the terrain sprue stretch goal. I think I will start on the Epirans first as I like their faction background so far. I will likely mod or replace the human infantry models and their boxy weapons. Eisenkerns or Victoria Minis might help to improve the overall look. I will wait until I have the minis in hand to decide.
The fiction sounds promising so an eBook or two may be in my future.
Edit: Am I the only one that sees "Malfstrom" instead of "Maelstrom" after reading Malfred's comment about trolling the universe? Now I am imagining an expanding cosmic storm that steals everyone's socks!
Well I made it to the stand... and very glad I did too.
I'm not just saying this because I'm a dakkaite but I have to say I was very very impressed with the quality and style of this game. I had a chat with Tom on the stand and its easy to see that these guys are passionate about this project and they're real gamers wanting to make a really good and successful wargame.
I can honestly say that I am super confident about backing the kickstarter and will be pleadging as soon as me and a mate (who I immediately sent over to their stand as soon as I returned to mine! ) have figured out what level we'll be going for.
So all in all, I'm very impressed and now even more excited to be backing my very first kickstarter project.
Good luck all!
P.s. I also got a look at the 2 hidden models! I'd pretty much made up my mind before seeing them but they were the most excellent icing on the cake!
Fraggle wrote:Will probably get buried, but just wanted to say thanks to the guys at salute. Slightly surreal feeling meeting Yakface!
Delighted with the books and great to talk to the writers about their plans for the extended universive. Also nice to see the models up close and I think the sneak peak models will go down well.
NAVARRO wrote:
endtransmission wrote: Ok, so I did get one photo for the day that showcases the Scarecrows really nicely
It is unlikely anyone will have photos of the two larger models though as they were in a carry case under the table
I can confirm that the 2 hidden big models were amazing and I bet most will love them!
Oh! the minis in general look much much better in real life, internet pictures of what you have seen so far do not do them justice.
Great minis! Curious about the rules.
A pleasure to meet Lego and Yak.
Ruglud wrote:Great to see these models in real life today, and to see our Dakka overlords - regretfully I didn't get a chance to converse or introduce myself as they were pretty slammed by others when I found the stand - missed it completely on my first pass of the hall... Note: you need a bigger banner to advertise our presence I bet you guys are totally wrecked though after that day...
I will say though, these models look way, way, way better up close and the 'boxy' Epirian contractors, really aren't that boxy. It's amazing the difference between real-life and computer screen...
overtyrant wrote:Got a closer look at the models at salute today and I have to say sorry but I was not impressed. The contractors proportions were all over the place and the guns looked bad the scarecrows looked really dull. The religious heavy weapon dudes wrists looked really really bad and not just the camp one, the drones looked passable ok but as my friend said they would look more at home in a 10mm game. I really wanted to like these as I think Dakka Dakka is the best forum out here but I really feel you should go back to the drawing board, sorry guys.
Emperors_Champion wrote:Well I made it to the stand... and very glad I did too.
I'm not just saying this because I'm a dakkaite but I have to say I was very very impressed with the quality and style of this game. I had a chat with Tom on the stand and its easy to see that these guys are passionate about this project and they're real gamers wanting to make a really good and successful wargame.
I can honestly say that I am super confident about backing the kickstarter and will be pleadging as soon as me and a mate (who I immediately sent over to their stand as soon as I returned to mine! ) have figured out what level we'll be going for.
So all in all, I'm very impressed and now even more excited to be backing my very first kickstarter project.
Good luck all!
P.s. I also got a look at the 2 hidden models! I'd pretty much made up my mind before seeing them but they were the most excellent icing on the cake!
Hey everybody, finally caught up on my sleep after a very long day yesterday. It was really amazing to meet so many of you and show you everything we've been working on - the models, rules and fiction. It was fantastic that so many people bought the books - I hope you enjoy them! We have some left over so we will be exploring possibilities of getting those to people that want them.
Thanks to everyone that stopped by the stand and to all of you who have posted your feedback here and elsewhere. We really appreciate everybody who takes an interest in the game that we've been working so hard to make, and we hope to add to people's excitement with the Kickstarter stretch goals over the next few weeks.
Have the moulds been cut for the scarecrows yet? If not, a hand for the right arm, either as a standalone piece or integrated into the gun-arm would be good.
I think people will be very excited by the sprue for the Scarecrow, the upper and lower limbs are all separate (both legs and arms) and there are so many posing opportunities. I can't wait to get my hands on some.
Hi guys, nice to see some of you at the stand yesterday. I was really impressed by two things. First is that the Karist faction stuff looks sooooo much better in person than in photos. To be honest, I was not at all impressed with the Karist stuff when I saw it on here, but when you can hold it in your hand they are are actually really lovely little models. I think if I were going to get some myself I would try and find some slightly smaller shoulder guards and/or trim the ones that come as stock, but that is a minor issue, easily solved.
I also really loved the terrain sprue that I saw. Keeping the bits you need on the sprue and letting people buy their own plasticard to finish it with is a genius idea, and it gives you a really great terrain piece. I'll definitely be trying to pick some of them up if they become available.
Question: was there hard copies of the maelstrom edge books at salute? I gave my ticket to my mate because I had to best man a wedding. All I asked in return was the novels and anything else.
He backed the project like me on kickstarter after seeing your stand. Did he get me the books? No.
It might I have made up these imaginary hard copies but if I can get both this would make me very very happy.
Aside. He loved your stand, he's only just moved out of historical gaming so I think that says volumes to your pick up market as he isn't on dakka.
Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote: Question: was there hard copies of the maelstrom edge books at salute? I gave my ticket to my mate because I had to best man a wedding. All I asked in return was the novels and anything else.
He backed the project like me on kickstarter after seeing your stand. Did he get me the books? No.
It might I have made up these imaginary hard copies but if I can get both this would make me very very happy.
Aside. He loved your stand, he's only just moved out of historical gaming so I think that says volumes to your pick up market as he isn't on dakka.
Thanks
We have a fair few printed copies still around and will be distributing them soon, but are waiting on getting the ISBNs sorted out and a couple of logistical steps before we are good to go.
Please make sure you are signed up on the Maelstrom's Edge website - http://www.maelstromsedge.com/medge/join.jsp and we'll send an email out there as soon at the physical copies are available
Thanks!!! I was terrified I was going to miss them! All signed up on the website and can't wait to get my hands on them. The guy whose wedding I went to had the electronic ones and was taunting me.
Cheers!
I really would like to get my hands on those novels. Should they completely sell out are there any plans to reprint or will it be electronic copies only after the current print run is completely sold out?
In the future we'll be pushing to get them out through an independent publisher, but for the near term, this limited print run will be the only option.
The girlfriend would love to get her hands on hard copies of those novels as the digital prints make her head spin. Any chance you kind fellows could ship a couple to France while you're across the pond? I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today
This might have already been asked, but will the other factions be an all consuming race like the zerg or tyranids, and daemon-like beings that came from the maelstrom? Also, is there a faction of self aware robots? I know you already have the factions planned out and I'm hyped to see whats next, just curious what you've got planned.
home_brew wrote: This might have already been asked, but will the other factions be an all consuming race like the zerg or tyranids, and daemon-like beings that came from the maelstrom? Also, is there a faction of self aware robots? I know you already have the factions planned out and I'm hyped to see whats next, just curious what you've got planned.
We'll be revealing our new factions in time, but it's safe to say they won't be any of the above. Whilst in a scifi game it's impossible to not have any similarities to anything that's ever been made before, we are aiming for each of our factions to feel different to other games.
One new faction we have spoken a little bit about so far is the Broken, which is the remains of society left behind when governments and corporations leave worlds close to the Maelstrom. This will be a mix of human and aliens, banding together as revolutionaries, pirates and teams of survivors to get what they need to escape offworld and survive before the Maelstrom reaches them. We have a lot of exciting design work done for these guys and two more factions (the Remnant Fleet and the Kaigus Pact) but due to the levels of investment required to make an all-plastic game, how the launch of the first set goes (both Kickstarter and retail) will determine when we can start working on producing the miniatures. For that reason we are concentrating on the first two factions that will be in the first game, the Epirian Foundation and the Karist Enclave. We still have more models from both to show you so hopefully the Kickstarter continues to go well so we can add more to what backers will get for their sweet spot pledge - the Kaddar Nova and terrain sprue are hopefully just the beginning!
JB wrote: I have three questions about the fiction books that are available for sale online:
1. Are the only versions the Kindle editions from Amazon?
2. Can I read a Kindle Edition on my Samsung smart phone?
3. Why won't Amazon sell these editions to customers in the Middle East? I am in Kuwait right now.
1. We plan to add the ebooks to additional stores in the future. Any requests of specific ebook stores are welcome so we can aim for the most popular sites.
2. You can download the Kindle app on any android smart phone and read it from there.
3. The books should be available in all regions but I think there are additional content restrictions for the Middle East that we have no power over. If you set your kindle account to be registered to a US address/credit card I believe you should be able to buy the books independently of where you are when you buy them.
Were there demonstration games at Salute? If not, can you film one and put it online?
Also, as some advice, maybe put pictures form Salute up on the Kickstarter as an update? That would definitely show that Maelstrom is a living company and not a fly-by-night operation.
I finally got around to downloading the books . Might take me a bit to get through them as I have quite a bit going on, but I will definitely leave a review when finished!
DrRansom wrote: Were there demonstration games at Salute? If not, can you film one and put it online?
Salute was a bit too busy and noisy for us to film a good demonstration game but we do intend to have a rules demo video online during the kickstarter.
I really love yak's ruleset - and playing and talking about it at Salute reminded me why. It's very difficult to damage an unit from the front when it's in cover and unsuppressed, but every attack, even if it doesn't do any damage, puts suppression tokens on a unit. Adding suppression makes it harder for a unit to activate and also easier to destroy at close range, because the reaction fire they would normally get when assaulted is much more difficult to do when the defending unit is suppressed. Added to the interesting alternating activation, realtime mission objectives and the advantage to attacking unit in their rear arc, the game really encourages fluid, tactical play and it's very satisfying when you use the first few units in a turn to suppress the enemy, setting up a devastating flanking attack from the unit you've been holding back until the end of the turn.
DrRansom wrote: Also, as some advice, maybe put pictures form Salute up on the Kickstarter as an update? That would definitely show that Maelstrom is a living company and not a fly-by-night operation.
We posted an update on Kickstarter with pictures from Salute this morning! We aim to post updates regularly throughout the Kickstarter, as well as responding to as many comments as we can.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote:I finally got around to downloading the books . Might take me a bit to get through them as I have quite a bit going on, but I will definitely leave a review when finished!
JB wrote:Thanks,
I discovered that my phone already had the Kindle app loaded and I was able to use it to purchase both books.
Looks like I have some reading to do. The formatting looks good on my Note 3.
Got my copies of the novels at Salute yesterday and I am working my way through number one - really enjoying it so far, helps to flesh out the world and create a sense of depth to the back-story. Plus some really nice touches of language in there which is good - it isn't prose for prose's sake nor overwrought florid language but there is some real craft in there which is good to see especially since most of the genre gets written off (unfairly in some regards) as pulp.
Edit: I should also note that the sneak-previews of some of the upcoming models that I saw were stunning and will certainly whet the appetite. Looking forward to seeing more of them!
I finished the first book earlier today and I've made a start on the second, I'm really enjoying them and I'm definitely looking forward to any more books or short stories that might come out in the future.
filbert wrote:Got my copies of the novels at Salute yesterday and I am working my way through number one - really enjoying it so far, helps to flesh out the world and create a sense of depth to the back-story. Plus some really nice touches of language in there which is good - it isn't prose for prose's sake nor overwrought florid language but there is some real craft in there which is good to see especially since most of the genre gets written off (unfairly in some regards) as pulp.
Edit: I should also note that the sneak-previews of some of the upcoming models that I saw were stunning and will certainly whet the appetite. Looking forward to seeing more of them!
Tibbsy wrote:I finished the first book earlier today and I've made a start on the second, I'm really enjoying them and I'm definitely looking forward to any more books or short stories that might come out in the future.
Thanks guys, that means a lot having worked on them for so long. We've got a bunch of short stories that we'll be releasing in various forms soon - and I've already started writing the next novel featuring two of our future factions...
I'll definitely grab a physical edition when available of both books. For future releases have you considered using a POD service like Lulu.com?
I've used them for my own novel (and the physical copy of The book I wrote for Mantic). You can then either buy in copies to sell yourself or set up links to Lulus own site so no warehousing costs incurred by yourself. Revenue streams vary on each approach but still a lot higher than traditional publishing.
Oh maaaan. I was trying to be a good boy and keep all my KS money in my wallet until the Red Box Games big project. Just bought an engagement ring, moving house in a couple of months...
Guess I'll have to back this anyway. The sound of the mechanics closely matches my ideal sci fi game (funnily enough I was working on a similar set of ideas for a skirmish game I was thinking of putting together for fun!). I like the models, and I like the basic outline of the background well enough.
Plus, it's Dakka, and that does count for something
DrRansom wrote: Were there demonstration games at Salute? If not, can you film one and put it online?
Salute was a bit too busy and noisy for us to film a good demonstration game but we do intend to have a rules demo video online during the kickstarter.
I really love yak's ruleset - and playing and talking about it at Salute reminded why. It's very difficult to damage an unit from the front when it's in cover and unsuppressed, but every attack, even if it doesn't do any damage, puts suppression tokens on a unit. Adding suppression makes it harder for a unit to activate and also easier to destroy at close range, because the reaction fire they would normally get when assaulted is much more difficult to do when the defending unit is suppressed. Added to the interesting alternating activation, realtime mission objectives and the advantage to attacking unit in their rear arc, the game really encourages fluid, tactical play and it's very satisfying when you use the first few units in a turn to suppress the enemy, setting up a devastating flanking attack from the unit you've been holding back until the end of the turn.
/quote]
Those rules sound great. Might pick up a rules only pledge.
JP1138 wrote: I'll definitely grab a physical edition when available of both books. For future releases have you considered using a POD service like Lulu.com?
I've used them for my own novel (and the physical copy of The book I wrote for Mantic). You can then either buy in copies to sell yourself or set up links to Lulus own site so no warehousing costs incurred by yourself. Revenue streams vary on each approach but still a lot higher than traditional publishing.
Listen to this man. I just picked up a copy of Bloodstone of Cerillion (from Amazon. Sorry), and it was convenient and affordable. The finished product looks and feels good, although I'd suggest adding more logos to the spine for that store-bought mass market charm.
Isn't the guy who wrote Hardl Luck Hank a Dakka member? Those books are also printed independently and hugely successful (relative to other POD lines I've seen) , so he might be able to give some great advice.
We're definitely looking into a bunch of ways to get the books in your hands. I'm really proud of them and think they will give people a great idea of the kind of universe we're creating, and of course as one of the guys who wrote it I'd love for as many people as possible to read it.
We're looking at POD and a couple of other options for long-term hard copies, and we have some of the limited edition paperbacks from Salute to sell soon too. Creating a game of all-plastic models, a ruleset, a whole load of background, two novels, a bunch of short stories, running a Kickstarter and launching at Salute has taken up a lot of our time, but getting more availability of the novel is high up on our list of things to do next!
darrkespur wrote: We're definitely looking into a bunch of ways to get the books in your hands. I'm really proud of them and think they will give people a great idea of the kind of universe we're creating, and of course as one of the guys who wrote it I'd love for as many people as possible to read it.
We're looking at POD and a couple of other options for long-term hard copies, and we have some of the limited edition paperbacks from Salute to sell soon too. Creating a game of all-plastic models, a ruleset, a whole load of background, two novels, a bunch of short stories, running a Kickstarter and launching at Salute has taken up a lot of our time, but getting more availability of the novel is high up on our list of things to do next!
When the Salute copies go on sale through the website, what are the odds of getting our copies autographed?
darrkespur wrote: We're definitely looking into a bunch of ways to get the books in your hands. I'm really proud of them and think they will give people a great idea of the kind of universe we're creating, and of course as one of the guys who wrote it I'd love for as many people as possible to read it.
We're looking at POD and a couple of other options for long-term hard copies, and we have some of the limited edition paperbacks from Salute to sell soon too. Creating a game of all-plastic models, a ruleset, a whole load of background, two novels, a bunch of short stories, running a Kickstarter and launching at Salute has taken up a lot of our time, but getting more availability of the novel is high up on our list of things to do next!
When the Salute copies go on sale through the website, what are the odds of getting our copies autographed?
Possible but will require some planning as Stephen and I don't live where the books are being stored. Let me get back to you on that!
carlos13th wrote: roughly how many miniature a side will be the ideal game size for Malstorms edge?
20-30. Yak has called it a 'squad-based skirmish game' - a lot of the fluidity of a skirmish game, but activating small squads of 3-6 models rather than individual models. We're hoping that if we hit our stretch goals in the Kickstarter we'll be able to up the number of models and unit types in the box set, but even what's in the sweet spot at the moment will be enough to play a small game - although buying two sets or swapping one set's worth of models from a faction with a friend will let you try out more themed armies with more of one type of unit.
Incidentally, all our models (both revealed and the upcoming stretch goals) are done or almost done in hard plastic already, so even if we manage to add additional unit types through the stretch goals, it won't delay delivery.
Da Boss wrote: Oh maaaan. I was trying to be a good boy and keep all my KS money in my wallet until the Red Box Games big project. Just bought an engagement ring, moving house in a couple of months...
Guess I'll have to back this anyway. The sound of the mechanics closely matches my ideal sci fi game (funnily enough I was working on a similar set of ideas for a skirmish game I was thinking of putting together for fun!). I like the models, and I like the basic outline of the background well enough.
Plus, it's Dakka, and that does count for something
That's awesome, Da Boss! On the engagement ring in particular but backing here too, of course . I've been impressed with your eye for minis (particularly with Tre's stuff of course, he's in a class by himself) so it is awesome to hear you like the models! For myself, I was sure I'd be playing Karists from some sneak previews lego had showed, but the drones have won me over instead
carlos13th wrote: roughly how many miniature a side will be the ideal game size for Malstorms edge?
The first post in the thread is filled with lots of info including the answer to your question (20-30) in the first couple of lines.
Thanks mate. I read the first page a while back then clearly forgot everything I read.
darrkespur wrote:
carlos13th wrote: roughly how many miniature a side will be the ideal game size for Malstorms edge?
20-30. Yak has called it a 'squad-based skirmish game' - a lot of the fluidity of a skirmish game, but activating small squads of 3-6 models rather than individual models. We're hoping that if we hit our stretch goals in the Kickstarter we'll be able to up the number of models and unit types in the box set, but even what's in the sweet spot at the moment will be enough to play a small game - although buying two sets or swapping one set's worth of models from a faction with a friend will let you try out more themed armies with more of one type of unit.
Incidentally, all our models (both revealed and the upcoming stretch goals) are done or almost done in hard plastic already, so even if we manage to add additional unit types through the stretch goals, it won't delay delivery.
Thanks. That seems reasonable. Not crazy number of models but not a small ten man skirmish either. It sounds like cover and facing will be very important in the rules. I have always wanted a wargaming ruleset similar to the full spectrum warrior game and it sounds like these might do that.
The rulebook will be A5 softcover, so that is is portable and convenient to quickly flick to a needed page.
I wouldnt call changing the templates and tokens to plastic 'an upgrade' as they would lose their cinematic effect from the lovely artwork. The card is thicker than other games which have used tokens like these, so provided they are assembled well, they will last a decent amount of time. If we made plastic versions of the templates, they would be the same or very similar to a bunch of other products on the market which would be a bit boring too.
If the card is remotely similar to battle systems card thickness, you should be able to take super glue (brush on kind is supposedly the easiest) and go around the edges of your tokens and templates. Hardens the edges and makes the piece perform a lot more like plastic, but retains the lovely artwork.
I managed to find one of those storage bin tower things that has been mentioned here. Was picking a few things up at my local Aldis (grocery store) and spotted one with the larger brightly colored (yellow) tubs. I could see them looking very building like with some gubbins attached and a piece of of card to make the front look like a wall with an awning.
The card is 0.5mm thick for the suppression tokens and 1.2mm thick for the templates, so quite easy to use superglue to seal the edges (which is very good advice!)
Bought and read both eBooks over the past week (due to some unually long commutes). Not bad. They're a notch below top-tier scifi IMHO, but certainly on par with what some of the better stuff that Black Library or Privateer Press's imprint have kicked out.
The pacing is, as with many gaming-derived books, a bit off. And the prose isn't quite a good as some top notch authors. Both of those, I think, simply come with practice.
But for gaming fiction, they're not bad at all.
Sounds like a bit of faint praise, I know, but I did enjoy them and they are very respectable "first efforts". As I noted, by the standards of gaming fiction they're definitely up there.
Interesting forershadowing in the end of book 2. Won't spoiler anything, but It looks like some avenues for the future have been laid down.
home_brew wrote: This might have already been asked, but will the other factions be an all consuming race like the zerg or tyranids, and daemon-like beings that came from the maelstrom? Also, is there a faction of self aware robots? I know you already have the factions planned out and I'm hyped to see whats next, just curious what you've got planned.
We'll be revealing our new factions in time, but it's safe to say they won't be any of the above. Whilst in a scifi game it's impossible to not have any similarities to anything that's ever been made before, we are aiming for each of our factions to feel different to other games.
One new faction we have spoken a little bit about so far is the Broken, which is the remains of society left behind when governments and corporations leave worlds close to the Maelstrom. This will be a mix of human and aliens, banding together as revolutionaries, pirates and teams of survivors to get what they need to escape offworld and survive before the Maelstrom reaches them. We have a lot of exciting design work done for these guys and two more factions (the Remnant Fleet and the Kaigus Pact) but due to the levels of investment required to make an all-plastic game, how the launch of the first set goes (both Kickstarter and retail) will determine when we can start working on producing the miniatures. For that reason we are concentrating on the first two factions that will be in the first game, the Epirian Foundation and the Karist Enclave. We still have more models from both to show you so hopefully the Kickstarter continues to go well so we can add more to what backers will get for their sweet spot pledge - the Kaddar Nova and terrain sprue are hopefully just the beginning!
I'm pretty happy with the current range and what is planned for both factions in that I'll definitely be backing, but what caught my interest the most was the mention of the Broken (Aliens, Pirates and Renegades! yes please! ) and other subfactions, I know you're not even a little bit close to that sculpting/release or even know when that will be, and that you guys are busy with the launch, kickstarter and Salute, but when you have time, can we have some hints please? Maybe concept art? I'm not basing my buying decision on this but I want to know if I should get as excited for future releases as I already am
I posted this over in the discussion thread but it was in the middle of the gear up for Salute and kind of got buried in the rest of the talk. I'm still curious about those aliens and anarchists
The robot's are growing on me they make me think of these
Question, if the kickstarter scenery gets unlocked, will there be a "deluxe version" of the boxed set with extra stuff(characters, scenery etcetara) in it?
Spend too many monies already so i have to wait until the retail release :(
bocatt wrote: I posted this over in the discussion thread but it was in the middle of the gear up for Salute and kind of got buried in the rest of the talk. I'm still curious about those aliens and anarchists
This. I'd want to like the game and get on board, but more info is needed. I get that i may not be the 'target player', but the lack of info seems a bit perplexing. Almost feels like the gw 'no info' way of selling a product. Still watching to see what happens with the stretch goals, and hoping more info might come that way.
more feedback: i like the epirian contractors, but not feeling it with the mechs & scarecrows so far. Not a big fan of the karists, the limp wrist thing is fine but the pics so far look like a cross between eldar and space marines and i find them a bit uninspiring. Which is where knowing about the other factions might help, but then i guess it may not either. Will see how things develop.
Just backed. Been out of town for most of the week, so been catching up with this. Went in for the 50$ pledge. I'll stay there just to support the game, but may go to the 90$ pledge depending on how things shake out. Good luck, guys!
Jehan-reznor wrote: The robot's are growing on me they make me think of these
Spoiler:
Question, if the kickstarter scenery gets unlocked, will there be a "deluxe version" of the boxed set with extra stuff(characters, scenery etcetara) in it?
Spend too many monies already so i have to wait until the retail release :(
Yeah, the robots feel very retro to me as well, which I kind of dig
As far as I know, the hope is to add things into the main $90 pledge as the total increases and they can take advantage of volume discounts (hence both the current stretch goals adding content, and I expect that to continue!)
This. I'd want to like the game and get on board, but more info is needed. I get that i may not be the 'target player', but the lack of info seems a bit perplexing. Almost feels like the gw 'no info' way of selling a product. Still watching to see what happens with the stretch goals, and hoping more info might come that way.
We don't want to show all our cards at the start of the kickstarter - people would get excited for a few days and then we'd have nothing more to talk about for the rest of the campaign! We have a carefully planned schedule to reveal all over the next few weeks so we can give attention to each part of the game in turn.
A little hint - every unit you can see in the art has been made into a (fully plastic) model, and will be revealed at some point during the campaign. Most of the units in the novels are also going to be revealed, and there's a few hints at the end of the books of where we'll go with future factions. If we raise enough money in the kickstarter all of the new designs will be added as stretch goals to the sweet spot pledge.
legoburner wrote: The card is 0.5mm thick for the suppression tokens and 1.2mm thick for the templates, so quite easy to use superglue to seal the edges (which is very good advice!)
I use Sharpie Paint pens. Basically it's acrylic in a pen.
Spoiler:
It makes tokens pop and seals the edges.
Before:
Spoiler:
yukky!
After:
Spoiler:
This technique is very easy and will look great on the suppresion tokens.
The slow reveal is frustrating (ya big tease) but understandable especially given the long KS campaign.
I assume the 40day length was chosen to take advantage of Salute but also to allow you to finish off the Drone Controller and the Kaddar Nova.
Grabbed the twin set of novel from Salute and looking forward to reading them (just got to finish TP's Soul Music first). I'm also eager to see future novels in physical form, my dyslexia makes reading a lot on the comp a bit of a head ache.
I'm very curious and I wish the Dakka team the best of luck!
That said--the name is terrible. Say what you will about Warhammer and Warmachine, the names are simple, punchy, and *recognizable* as hell. Malifaux is a name that's out of left field but for that reason is memorable.
Maelstrom's Edge sounds like a bad SF flick. It's bland and forgettable and tells me nothing about the game. Consider changing it before full launch.
hans_co wrote: I'm very curious and I wish the Dakka team the best of luck!
That said--the name is terrible. Say what you will about Warhammer and Warmachine, the names are simple, punchy, and *recognizable* as hell. Malifaux is a name that's out of left field but for that reason is memorable.
Maelstrom's Edge sounds like a bad SF flick. It's bland and forgettable and tells me nothing about the game. Consider changing it before full launch.
Thanks for the well wishes. Sorry you don't like the name, but that's set in stone now with the public launch. I actually think it tells you a lot about the game and our setting. The Maelstrom is the core of our universe, the galaxy-spanning event that causes our factions to come into conflict, and the Edge is the area of space where our stories and games are set. I think any name you give something is unknown at the beginning, it's only after people become more familiar with a game that you learn to associate it with the models, art and fiction - I know that when I first came across thigns like Infinity or Malifaux I didn't know what those names implied about the games themselves. Hopefully as people learn more about what we've made they'll come to associate the name Maelstrom's Edge with everything we've created.
Thanks everyone! We've already made loads of progress and it's great to see so many people supporting us already - we really appreciate it.
We've posted pictures of all the sprues for the models released so far on Kickstarter so you can see exactly what you're going to get (and how we get such a smooth finish on the Angel Minnows!)
bocatt wrote: I posted this over in the discussion thread but it was in the middle of the gear up for Salute and kind of got buried in the rest of the talk. I'm still curious about those aliens and anarchists
This. I'd want to like the game and get on board, but more info is needed. I get that i may not be the 'target player', but the lack of info seems a bit perplexing. Almost feels like the gw 'no info' way of selling a product. Still watching to see what happens with the stretch goals, and hoping more info might come that way.
I believe the idea is that there is no point talking about factions that will not see any place on the table for years (based on the time and expense needed to develop and produce hard plastic minis), especially because no matter how much you emphasise the point some people would buy in to the game expecting to be able to buy them relatively soon and end up bitter and disappointed
they also want to have new stuff to talk about/reveal throughout the campaign which is long by KS standards in order to cover 2 paydays, but because of this risks people getting bored and putting out
legoburner wrote: The card is 0.5mm thick for the suppression tokens and 1.2mm thick for the templates, so quite easy
to use superglue to seal the edges (which is very good advice!)
I use Sharpie Paint pens. Basically it's acrylic in a pen.
Spoiler:
It makes tokens pop and seals the edges.
Before:
Spoiler:
yukky!
After:
Spoiler:
This technique is very easy and will look great on the suppresion tokens.
Panic...
Awesome - thank you very much for that tip!
Lost Egg wrote:The slow reveal is frustrating (ya big tease) but understandable especially given the long KS campaign.
I assume the 40day length was chosen to take advantage of Salute but also to allow you to finish off the Drone Controller and the Kaddar Nova.
Grabbed the twin set of novel from Salute and looking forward to reading them (just got to finish TP's Soul Music first). I'm also eager to see future novels in physical form, my dyslexia makes reading a lot on the comp a bit of a head ache.
I have to use coloured overlays to read due to my dyslexia and they just don't work with eBooks for some reason. That's why I've been so keen to get printed copies too. I hope I manage to bag some of the leftovers when they are available *Fingers crossed*
Panic,
The paint pen idea is wonderful! I've used regular sharpie to blacken the edges of card scenerybefore, but that's just for looks and doesn't provide any protection. The bright edges on your painted tokens look really sharp. I may have to give this a try.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The robot's are growing on me they make me think of these
Spoiler:
Question, if the kickstarter scenery gets unlocked, will there be a "deluxe version" of the boxed set with extra stuff(characters, scenery etcetara) in it?
Spend too many monies already so i have to wait until the retail release :(
Yeah, the robots feel very retro to me as well, which I kind of dig
Yeah Panic, thanks for the tip there; I have plenty enough tokens to try that out on and they do certainly have more pop.
Looking forward to these rumored goodies from Salute as well as the campaign goes on. From the initial view the Scarecrows didn't do much for me, but that could be the angle/color/light making it a bit misleading. They looked quite spindly when I looked at them at first then I zoomed in and they look better; they're not bulky but they're not on stilts either. Reminds me of the Griffin/Roundfacer really which is no bad thing.
Also the obligatory "Yep I'm in for the sweet spot" post I didn't make over the weekend when I pledged.
Have you tried reading ebooks via a dedicated ereader like a kindle (not kindle fire) or nook? or just via an app on pc/tablet/phone
I know somebody with dyslexia who uses a coloured overlay successfully on e-ink devices but who can't can't use them on pc/tablet/phone type screens
I've tried kindle/laptop/iPad - each device loses the benefit of the overlay for some reason - I start re-reading lines again, getting headaches and going at a much slower pace. I've got software for the PC, but it doesn't work as well. I think I'm just really busy and am less tolerant than previously of things taking longer than necessary. If I don't get print copies, I'll wait for an iBooks version and buy them then.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.
See, now you're discriminating against those who wear chaps for work at stripclubs and leather bars! They have feelings too!
And back a bit more to the actual KS, I started following it today on kicktraq. It's been a while since I followed a campaign daily (probably 2 years now) but it seems like they took away the hourly pledge/pledgers tracking from the "daily" tab. It looks like the initial rush is likely over (although there may be a small bump from Salute today) and we're in for the long haul. I know Lego and Yak have stuff spaced out likely for 40 days but I do hope we have a pic of one of the larger figs soon or a render of the drone handler. It says the drone handler plastic is "still in development" so maybe they can take some of the feedback here into account about the shape/proportions of the model. That might, though, make the new guy look a bit out of place with the grunts though.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
Assless chaps? Really. Huh. I don't really see that. I keep thinking of cowboys. But I did grow up in a household that was convinced that older is better.
So according to the kickstarter you guys are going to add more races (nations) and peoples to the game to diversify the game correct?
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
Ignoring the fact we're discussing a sci-fi setting...are you familiar with Tincloth?
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
Ignoring the fact we're discussing a sci-fi setting...are you familiar with Tincloth?
Actually..no..no I'm not (goes to Google it).
Hmm.. still seems a bit rigid to my eyes.. It's funny.. I've researched chaps more in the past few days than just about anything else this entire year..
you are a brave soul i don't want "chaps vs assless chaps" to show up in my search history lol.
They have talked about the next three factions they are cooking up but of course they dont want to promise on kick starter that they are in production or anything of the sort. The kick starter is pretty much to recoup or to add to the base game with the funds. That's the reason why it has such a quick turn around once they play test the rules and send them off to the printer.
Which is both a good and bad thing, the models are done so the turn around for the game will be quick. But at the same time for those that are hungry to see the variety and depth of imagination in the other factions that are going to be part of the game it is kind of a let down that the kickstarter might not spoil them or make them attainable.
maybe it's just me but when i see "two factions" off the bat and the other factions are not described too much just yet. I see it as good vs bad or light vs dark even if we are told that the individual stances of the factions is more morally grey and they can be played as either.
On the morality thing.. I think it's important to establish a faction that believes itself to be the good guys and acts with a higher sense of moral authority etc etc.. and.. it's imporant to have bad guys who really don't place value on life and perhaps even take joy in taking lives or stealing souls or whatever..
It's fine for the rest to be gray areas but if every faction just straddles a middle of the road type of personality, then it's really hard for people who typically associate with either of those mindsets to find something they can get behind.
For instance, Warmachine has Menoth and Cryx. I'm not saying Menoth actually are good guys.. but they believe they are.. Cryx are pretty convincingly evil.
40k, Chaos and Imperium.
What other game systems have endured a decade or more and not had those two factions?
There's always going to be people who want to play the demons or dragons or monsters or whatever.. and there's always going to be people who want to play the crusader types.
EDIT:
Yeah, lol not worried about my search history. I'm pretty sure anyone looking at it would've probably stopped at Marvin Gaye Velociraptor.
This. I'd want to like the game and get on board, but more info is needed. I get that i may not be the 'target player', but the lack of info seems a bit perplexing. Almost feels like the gw 'no info' way of selling a product. Still watching to see what happens with the stretch goals, and hoping more info might come that way.
We don't want to show all our cards at the start of the kickstarter - people would get excited for a few days and then we'd have nothing more to talk about for the rest of the campaign! We have a carefully planned schedule to reveal all over the next few weeks so we can give attention to each part of the game in turn.
A little hint - every unit you can see in the art has been made into a (fully plastic) model, and will be revealed at some point during the campaign. Most of the units in the novels are also going to be revealed, and there's a few hints at the end of the books of where we'll go with future factions. If we raise enough money in the kickstarter all of the new designs will be added as stretch goals to the sweet spot pledge.
Good point, it is only like day 5 of the kickstarter.
I'm not a big fan of every faction having shades of grey morality. I get that enough in real life. Besides, making everyone just a bastard just makes your setting get old really fast.
"This faction is the Colonel Tigh. That faction is the Baltar. That other faction is the President Roslin. These guys are the--
Hey, Stargate SG1 is on! Let's watch that instead!"
MLaw wrote: On the morality thing.. I think it's important to establish a faction that believes itself to be the good guys and acts with a higher sense of moral authority etc etc.. and.. it's imporant to have bad guys who really don't place value on life and perhaps even take joy in taking lives or stealing souls or whatever..
It's fine for the rest to be gray areas but if every faction just straddles a middle of the road type of personality, then it's really hard for people who typically associate with either of those mindsets to find something they can get behind.
For instance, Warmachine has Menoth and Cryx. I'm not saying Menoth actually are good guys.. but they believe they are.. Cryx are pretty convincingly evil.
40k, Chaos and Imperium.
What other game systems have endured a decade or more and not had those two factions?
There's always going to be people who want to play the demons or dragons or monsters or whatever.. and there's always going to be people who want to play the crusader types.
EDIT:
Yeah, lol not worried about my search history. I'm pretty sure anyone looking at it would've probably stopped at Marvin Gaye Velociraptor.
When we say that we want to create a morally grey universe, we mean it in the way that everyone thinks they are the hero of their story, that they are doing the right thing. Very few people truly think they are evil. Now, plenty of people do evil things, but they almost always have a justification for their actions - He started the fight because they insulted his mother, they started a war because the other country killed a bunch of people (which that country did because they thought the people were stealing their land, and so on). There's plenty of game worlds out there that have the more traditional good vs evil stories, but we felt that there was a gap and a demand in the market for something a bit different.
Our factions aren't going to be middle of the road. But hopefully we will also manage to make their motivations make sense, even when they do terrible (or wonderful!) things, so you can see why they went down that path. For me as a writer that's much more interesting than the malevolant comic book villain who is mean because he's the bad guy and hurting people is just what he's supposed to do. There'll definitely be heroes and villains, but ones that have made their choices for reasons that you as readers can understand, and hopefully even debate what the right choice is in some cases. I think we've achieved that with the portrayal of the Karists in the novels, and although I understand that not everyone wants that kind of feel to a universe, I'm hoping that enough people will want to explore that kind of setting and the fiction we write within it.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
The wrinkles are due to the super technologically advanced space denim, obviously. But seriously, stop calling them assless chaps, or for that matter ATM machine, PIN number, CAD design, and tuna fish.
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
The wrinkles are due to the super technologically advanced space denim, obviously. But seriously, stop calling them assless chaps, or for that matter ATM machine, PIN number, CAD design, and tuna fish.
Hey now! These are the assless chaps the Maelstrom deserves, but not the chaps it needs. Anyways, I'm in on a 90$ pledge.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm not a big fan of every faction having shades of grey morality. I get that enough in real life. Besides, making everyone just a bastard just makes your setting get old really fast.
"This faction is the Colonel Tigh. That faction is the Baltar. That other faction is the President Roslin. These guys are the--
Hey, Stargate SG1 is on! Let's watch that instead!"
That kind of storytelling doesn't seem to have done Game of Thrones any harm though!
Personally, I prefer that kind of thing to the two-dimensional 'evil cackling' bad-guys and 'holier than thou' goodies, although I realise there is room for both in forms of narrative.
Plus its a good on ya that we KNOW you. Got a good team there, people who won't duck it around on rules, and setting, a good solid plan, and a goal.
I'm giving it a few more days, but I'm pretty much sold. I want some rebel looking gits, though. This army stuff doesn't really do it for me. I need me some road warrior/ outlaw teams/ crews, and maybe some ship crews. What do the spaceships look like? You going to have some Firefly looking stuff going on in there?
The drones look ok, but I was expecting more robot stuff in there, maybe some walker's with some rocket launcher's or machineguns.
I really like what I see though, not seeing any Neosoviets, or Union, but hey, these factions are pretty cool.
malfred wrote: So the maelstrom is moving. How fast/slow can we expect to background to move along with it? As far as you can that is hehe
Hmm.. another good point.. 40k in contrast has felt stagnant for me for quite some time. Not in terms of models or rules or whatever.. god knows they stepped on the gas in that department.. but the fluff feels like it just drags on and on. I always thought it'd be cool to play a game that every year or two, the narrative drives whatever the actual model or rules progression is rather than letting the cart pull the horse.
darrkespur - try not to take what I'm saying next as a personal attack.. internet don't got time for tone.. It's a little insulting to presume we don't understand that you don't want an oversimplified good vs evil structure. While I am also a writer.. even for people that are not, it's not that hard to get a grasp for any of this. Several of us grew up watching GI Joe or Transformers and I don't think anyone expects a cut and dry black and white I win because evil is dumb type of scenario. When you imply that I'm saying as much it strikes me as self-important writer drivel. I don't think you're that type of person but I have watched a few of my friends and acquaintances gain little to lots of popularity and immediately assume a certain mentality when addressing others. Please don't become (or be..) that guy.. if you are already (I don't know you) please just remember, we're on Dakka. We tend to not be quite that dumb, despite how we may act from time to time. It's basic story structure to have an antagonist and protagonist. Not having that does not make your setting as innovative as you might hope. For us lowly readers, it strikes us as though you have likely not thought your story out thoroughly. While I know better, it is simply not the perception of the matter. When I talk about righteous or evil, I don't mean Skeletor and Prince Adam.. I mean Adolf freakin Hitler and the Holy Roman Army. Strangely, both of those thought they were doing well and were simultaneously committing atrocities. It's about their demeanor and motivations as you say. When you attempt to humanize a group that should for all intents and purposes simply be thought of as evil, you are diminishing what their true nature is. Finally, I will say this.. The psychological bit you've mentioned is fine and well in books. When people are looking at a demo game of Maelstrom's Edge, they will most likely not want to sit through a symposium on the dichotomy of good and evil and the duality of human nature. The successful people I've known who have had movie deals land or big name comics (sorry I realize that must be such a lowly form of literature to a great novelist such as yourself) they have found it a virtue to be able to sum up your story in the breadth of an elevator ride, as that is likely all you'll be able to hold of a passer-by's attention. I apologize that such brevity was not found here but I invite you to read and potentially re-read what I've said.
home_brew wrote: Does the maelstrom destroy everything, like buildings as well? Or are organic beings destroyed leaving planets and cities as they are?
From what I've gathered, it is assumed to destroy everything. Basically all matter appears to get obliterated. But nobody has ever seen what's on the other side of the Maelstrom so who knows?
Yeah its like someone hit the known galaxy with an explosion that just keeps exploding out. If it ever stopped blowing up you could observe what happened in its wake, but you'd have to wait for it to stop (maybe never?) or somehow cross the wave of apparent destruction to verify. I'm assuming scientists have tried observing it with no recordable values returned.
Seems like it could theoretically be stopped by destroying the Cybel network, or at the very least destroying some of it. The same idea behind burning fire breaks. It runs out of steam between star systems, and accelerates when it contacts matter and Cybel energy.
The alternative is of course to leave the galaxy itself and flee to another one. The intergalactic void should stop it.
From what they've posted so far, it sounds like they'd have to slow boat it past the galactic rim, since their existing FTL tech only works between stars. I can't imagine slowboating it to Andromeda is going to work very well ...
A firebreak sort of idea might work though, if they could be thorough enough, or find a choke point. It'd hard to be really sure. The Maelstrom could plow through the inner arm structure and cross arms, possibly. A lot of this will depend on all that sci-fi physics they're being all mysterious about though ...
I have to admit though, I'm torn. I know how bad I can get about hobbies (six months in and I give up), and I've had some bad luck finding people to play even 40k on a good time for me. But then, a smaller game profile would be less painful on the wallet, too. Freaking Riptide prices ...
I think it keeps expanding when there aren't cybel strands to eat up, it just travels along them faster. I'm not convinced removing the network would do anything but slow it. And like you guys said, the only way to get away from it expediently is by using the network.
I think some kind of backwards explosion canceling it out would be the most likely way to stop it, but then that explosion in and of itself may cause similar problems.
They need to find a different layer of subspace and hide entire planets from its wake
It does sorta make you wonder what happens when it reaches the rim. Will it eventually reach out towards other galaxies, or is there a matter/energy density below which it can't propagate any more?
Given what we've heard, they might all just be universally screwed unless they could come up with another FTL mechanism, or build something on the scale of a Ringworld...
MLaw wrote: The more I look at them, the more the assless chaps are pushing me away. However, the idea of doing a Village People strike team is pretty amusing.
I wonder if this is some sort of odd generational-cultural divide thing? Growing up with western movies, the first thing that chaps* bring to mind is cowboys, which fits the frontier nature of the setting. It seems a lot of people jump straight to 'Hollywood gay bar' instead, for some reason...
We've also had people post examples in this thread of other professions that wear chaps for extra leg protection.
* (seriously, folks, just 'chaps'... there is no more point in calling them 'assless' chaps then there would be referring to their trousers as 'footless' pants...)
I'm starting to wonder about this too. Maybe it's a symptom of more people working desk jobs or other jobs that don't involve as much outdoor labor. To me, chaps are a pretty normal thing for riding or outdoor work. But people keep talking about "assless" chaps as if that is different from regular chaps and acting like it's just some kind of weird outfit for strippers or leather bars rather than something that would make sense to wear on a planet with a lot of thick brush or undergrowth.
Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
There are plenty of materials that are thick enough and strong enough to be protective and still can wrinkle and fold, including leather, as well as synthetic protective materials. A material doesn't have to be rigid in order to be protective.
I don't think we are talking about bulletproof chaps here. Just chaps that would be protective enough for everyday work (power tools, sparks from welding, the ones I used for my chainsaw were non-rigid on purpose and designed to get snatched by the chain if it got too close and then be flexible enough to get 'sucked' along the chain and bunch up and stop the blade before it starts to eat your leg) and which might just be strong enough to block some shrapnel that gets thrown your way during combat.
Anything that would get stopped by some leather probably wasn't going to be too lethal in the first place.
The real practical use for it is slowing wear and tear on your pants and keeping you a little more comfortable from bumps and bruises. Its not going to stop a bullet.
Keeping your soldiers clothed is a serious problem. Just ask all those soldiers in the 1700s who went to war with no shoes.
Anyway, on the topic of the rules, I finally had a chance to sit down and read the demo rules.
I must say I'm impressed. They seem fairly tight and intuitive, while also being distinctive. I especially like how damage application works.
And we're only $1800 away from that first stretch goal
Bunker gear wouldn't stop a bullet, but it kept a lot of other stuff from hurting me. Chaps can keep lots of shrapnel out of your skin, keep acid or flammable liquids from soaking into your clothes, keep fire from burning you or catching your regular clothes on fire. But I'm guessing a bullet will kill the grunt contractor, and he just isn't important enough to waste the money on bullet protection for him.
Hmm, looking at the models it seems that the contractors are wearing at least some form of body armor. Probably super cheap, but it looks like more than just some simple work clothes.
As someone who's kept an eye on this from the beginning, I'm very excited to see all the enthusiasm about this project. I've seen these guys pour insane amounts of effort into this, and it really makes me happy to see all the speculation and discussion going on about this. I've thought of some of the same things that you all are discussing, and it's really bringing out the hard sci-fi geek in me. I had a very fun conversation (for me, anyway) with darrkesper about orbital mechanics.
Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.
GrimDork hit it on the nose.
They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none. They also work just like any contract work would in real life. Example: Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.
d-usa wrote: I don't think we are talking about bulletproof chaps here. Just chaps that would be protective enough for everyday work (power tools, sparks from welding, the ones I used for my chainsaw were non-rigid on purpose and designed to get snatched by the chain if it got too close and then be flexible enough to get 'sucked' along the chain and bunch up and stop the blade before it starts to eat your leg) and which might just be strong enough to block some shrapnel that gets thrown your way during combat.
Sounds like something you'd want to have in front of your crotch.
Grey Templar wrote: Anything that would get stopped by some leather probably wasn't going to be too lethal in the first place.
The real practical use for it is slowing wear and tear on your pants and keeping you a little more comfortable from bumps and bruises. Its not going to stop a bullet.
They don't necessarily have to be leather, and I certainly don't think they're supposed to be bulletproof. I think they are just supposed to do what normal chaps do - protect from either thick brush or undergrowth, and/or like others have said, protect the legs while doing things like chainsawing and welding.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.
GrimDork hit it on the nose.
They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none.
They also work just like any contract work would in real life.
Example:
Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.
How do you explain the shoulder pads? Are they just decorative, like Mouse Ears or a Hotdog On A Stick hat?
GrimDork wrote: Yeah, I think they've basically got their own in-house armor bought with their own paychecks. Contractors seem kind of like private security really. Probably nothing decent to do for legs on a low budget so they wear their work chaps into battle as its better than nothing.
GrimDork hit it on the nose.
They are called SecCon, Security Contractors. Literally Rent-a-Cop with a long term contract for the corporation. How many Rent-a-Cop businesses in real life have all their employees outfitted in even today's standard body armor? Likely none.
They also work just like any contract work would in real life.
Example:
Construction contractor - You bid on a job. If you win the job, the company who contracted you does not have to provide you with the tools you need to complete the work... you have to have them yourself.
How do you explain the shoulder pads? Are they just decorative, like Mouse Ears or a Hotdog On A Stick hat?
I think it's more like Malfred said. These guys are basically like Blackwater.
MLaw wrote: Quite the opposite.. those chaps are super wrinkly.. if the material were rigid enough to be protective, they'd not have wrinkles and folds. Since they are made from a non-protective material (or at least sculpted that way) then I can only conclude that they are for costume only.. and according to Wikipedia, when chaps are worn in that manner they are referred to colloquially as assless chaps. Don't blame me for the sculptor liking wrinkles so much
There are plenty of materials that are thick enough and strong enough to be protective and still can wrinkle and fold, including leather, as well as synthetic protective materials. A material doesn't have to be rigid in order to be protective.
Fetishwear aside, the purpose of chaps is to use fabric that is too rigid to be made into trousers by removing the part where the rigidity of the fabric interferes most with the movement of the body - on the inside of a joint. If rigidity is not a problem, you can just use the stuff to make trousers instead.
And since I already posted them to the other thread, here's a bit of concept fanart I did for female Contractors and Troopers.
I never thought when we launched that we would have pages of discussion on fetishwear
Seriously though, it's great fun to read all of the speculation and discussions about "what if X". Some of your questions we have the answers to and will likely trickle out, other's we've left deliberately open to interpretation. Keep the discussions coming!
I think national guard reservists would be a better description guys... They work a variety of jobs unless called up to fight in dire circumstances. Probably get their training every 3rd weekend or something, and most will be doing it for pay and perks to supplement the regular income and for better chances of promotions... From the sound of it, sooner or later a dedicated type of unit or many may come along in the future, but it sounds like the initial setting is a smaller world, so mostly locals on the Ep side?
I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.
The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.
I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.
I'm not sure if National Guard really works either. During the novels one of the characters goes to a Contractor barracks/whatever and hires them out. They really feel like private security that also happens to be on tap for the government.
MajorTom11 wrote:I think national guard reservists would be a better description guys... They work a variety of jobs unless called up to fight in dire circumstances. Probably get their training every 3rd weekend or something, and most will be doing it for pay and perks to supplement the regular income and for better chances of promotions... From the sound of it, sooner or later a dedicated type of unit or many may come along in the future, but it sounds like the initial setting is a smaller world, so mostly locals on the Ep side?
EarloftheNorth wrote:I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.
The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.
I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.
Exactly right on the role of the contractor. Contractors are the dogsbodies of the Foundation, men and women at the bottom of the rung employed on short-term contracts to do the jobs that need doing. On worlds near the Edge, they are often working partly in exchange for berths on evacuation ships for them and their families. As well as security, you can find them fixing roads, running mining facilities and maintaining terraforming drudges, sometimes all in the same week!
The majority of the Foundation's fighting forces are robotic (and we still have more robots to show that I think people will like the look of), and Contractors are the supporting unit to the drones and bots, keeping them running and offering basic fire support. As well as the Contractor and robotic arms of the Foundation, the Epirians also have a dedicated military arm called SecDef which gets called in when the situation gets really dire. We haven't got any SecDef units in the Kickstarter but they are near the top of the list for expansion units in the future. I've written a post for one of our Kickstarter updates about the structure and history of both starting factions which should pop up in the next week or so.
EarloftheNorth wrote: I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.
The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.
I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.
You're on the right track, but it's actually the other way round! The big, well funded Epirian worlds were destroyed in the initial expansion of the Maelstrom. The worlds currently on the Edge were either new colonies or backwaters on the fringes of civilised human space, and now are the same again in reverse, as people flee. There are more developed and well funded Epirian worlds a little further away from the Edge where the richer franchises fled to, but they are all fairly new worlds and there aren't nearly as many as you'd think....
I wonder how the Maelstrom destroys a planet...does it burn through the atmosphere first or does its close proximity cause earth shattering tremors etc. Presumably if a planet has a cyber gate or generator then the destruction goes quicker and is far more powerful but what about a 'bog-standard' planet?
EarloftheNorth wrote: I'm largely uninterested in the whole chaps thing, I wouldn't expect to see them on regular troops but on what are essentially civilian workers they are fine to me.
The use of the contractors as infantry with re purposed drones makes a lot of sense if you think about it, while the Karlists are focused around the edge, giving them a good reason for their military units to be there. The Epirians main focus is more likely to be on the Rim and the middle area so far untouched by the Maelstrom. Since space travel becomes much more difficult on the Edge, shipping enough troops in to protect Epirian interests would be difficult, stationing enough troops would cost to much and you would need double the shipping to evacuate personnel and equipment, since you still need the contractors (and families), mechs and drones to do their usual day jobs.
I would expect some better equipped regular & special forces types to be available as well at some point, after all the 'important people' are going to want to have the ability to make sure they are on the first ship out and there will probably be high value personnel and equipment that will need to be extracted covertly when necessary.
You're on the right track, but it's actually the other way round! The big, well funded Epirian worlds were destroyed in the initial expansion of the Maelstrom. The worlds currently on the Edge were either new colonies or backwaters on the fringes of civilised human space, and now are the same again in reverse, as people flee. There are more developed and well funded Epirian worlds a little further away from the Edge where the richer franchises fled to, but they are all fairly new worlds and there aren't nearly as many as you'd think....
Interesting.....which in turn would be another reason for the lack of large numbers of combat troops, they simply dont have them or the ability and resources to raise enough of them to garrison their facilities on their remaining worlds. So armed civilians contractors with robotic forces (which can fill both civilian and combat roles) can do the job, especially if your now concerned with getting the maximum resources out of the remaining worlds to fund your migration rimwards.
Also if you need to decide whether to ship one more load of resources off planet or evacuate your rearguard, its a much easier choice when your rearguard is robotic rather humans who might just make the decision for you.
The Maelstrom is reminding me of some massive, zero-g, forest fire. When it hits a cybel (?) it is like a forest fire hitting dry patches and accelerating it's pace. It wouldn't be evenly moving across space and only rapidly spreads in the direction of the cybel it hits. So this adds a sense of urgency in that at any moment it could rapidly spread across a section of space and potentially consume valuable resources.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know you said you will be releasing additional factions/armies later on. I was wondering if it is possible for players to make their own factions? Or will the rules not make it possible?
Lost Egg wrote: I wonder how the Maelstrom destroys a planet...does it burn through the atmosphere first or does its close proximity cause earth shattering tremors etc. Presumably if a planet has a cyber gate or generator then the destruction goes quicker and is far more powerful but what about a 'bog-standard' planet?
There's a little bit of both. The reaction of Maelstrom energy with matter is explosive, fuelling the Maelstrom's expansion further, and increasing the risk of it finding a new cybel tunnel to travel down and spread. The Maelstrom also disrupts stars and planets, both directly because the wavefront itself has a gravitational effect and also because as star systems nearby are destroyed, the local gravity of the region becomes destabilised, affecting the movements of stars around their local group and the orbits of planets around stars. When it gets really close, the Maelstrom can cause earthquakes and tremors on planets, and disrupt the stability of stars to the point that they go supernova. In the last few days and weeks of a star system's existence the atmosphere can burn away. In general it's a good idea to be far away from that when it happens!
All stars and large planets (think Jupiter sized) will have enough cybel energy attracted to their mass to have cybel tunnels connecting them to other nearby large objects. Some have gates installed, whilst others can only be accessed by ships capable of making their own opening into the cybel tunnel. Either way, the Maelstrom will make its way through, but open gates and large explosions of cybel energy act like a backdraft effect, drawing the Maelstrom towards that event, and away from other star systems. There are some out there who will abuse this behaviour to try and influence the path of the Maelstrom towards or away certain systems. A forest fire is a nice analogy for the Maelstrom's behaviour, for sure.
This right here is why I pledged for this game and why I am so enthused about seeing this become a reality. Yakface has a long and distinguished history of working with 40k tournaments with the INAT (you can read about that here) and it is fair to say that he knows what goes towards making a good game. I was privileged to play an early cut of this game at Adepticon last year and this game has situations where tactical decisions have a real and lasting effect on the game, more so than any other game I can think of over the past 20 years that I have played. The game has a superb grounding in reality (which may strike some as surprising given it is a sci-fi game) - the game places emphasis on fire and manoeuvre tactics, which some of you may know are the basis for modern infantry tactics - locate the enemy, suppress them with fire and flank them to destroy. This helps to make the game immersive and interactive; the player really feels like his or her tactical choices can win or lose - victory can be snatched from the jaws of defeat and vice versa! I look forward to seeing the improvements that Yakface has no doubt made since then and of course, the beta testing which will help improve the rules further but I for one am very keen on playing this game in the not too distant future.
And that's why I'm gonna greenstuff some big round bellies onto them. OOO, I could make the plastic terrain sprues into a Space Donut shop. Holy carp man, thanks for the great idea!
JohnnyHell wrote: Google 'PMC' or 'security contractor' and hit Images. PMCs today are generally WELL equipped by current standards.
This is true...Although, I think to help set a visual standard of PMC Vs. Military it is useful to have the PMC minis look not as well equipped. So in the future if the actual military is released they will appear more powerful and deadlier than the PMCs.
Which is odd, given they're choosing custom gear so often better equipped, vs issue gear in the military. Anyway, I digress. If you can rationalise it in this fiction, that's fine, and not really worth drawn-out real world analogue discussions when the chaps with chaps are what they are. I was just surprised how few people knew that 'contractor' in terms of warfare doesn't mean 'janitor or handyman with a gun' right now!
Here's the announcement update for the terrain - just $12 per sprue, an amazing $0.38 per element!
We are kicking off the add-on facility with the most demanded add-on of all - our amazing terrain sprue for just $12 per sprue:
Each Sprue Containing: 1x Large Door, 2x Small Doors, 1x Light Fitting, 2x Microwave Projectors/Antennas, 4x Corner Caps, 1x Small Pipe Fitting (fits a standard drinking straw), 1x Large Pipe Fitting, 2x Computer Panels, 1x Trapdoor, 2x Shuttered Windows, 2x Fascias, 2x Tessellating Trapezoid Windows, 1x Ladder/Walkway, 2x Tech Edge Pieces, 8x Modular Edge Pieces.
Our terrain sprue is HUGE (almost the size of a sheet of A4 paper) and perfectly scaled to work with all 28mm-32mm games. The design is simple - get a box, or some cardboard, cut some holes in it and stick in our doors and windows and add edge pieces, then paint it and you have terrain unique to your table but still thematically linked to any other pieces you make with a minimum of effort. You can also use all of our fully plastic terrain elements to spruce up any other terrain kits you might have, with it adding especially great detailing to MDF and wood terrain kits. Even fantasy buildings can be turned completely sci-fi with the addition of our doors, pipe fittings and computer panels.
Add just $12 to your pledge for each additional terrain sprue you want to add on. As soon as we hit $45K in pledges, we'll be adding one free terrain sprue to every $90 pledge as well!
To help you imagine what you could do with these sprues, here are some of the things our team have made with them:
Hab Unit:
Pre-Fab Shop Before:
Pre-Fab Shop After:
Ruins
Pipes:
All of the above are made with simple materials like cardboard, foam core and plastic boxes and are then made sci-fi by our great terrain sprue. You can see a few more photos on our facebook page.
Add some additional terrain sprues to your pledge today! You will want a lot of them as they are great fun to work with!
JohnnyHell wrote: Which is odd, given they're choosing custom gear so often better equipped, vs issue gear in the military. Anyway, I digress. If you can rationalise it in this fiction, that's fine, and not really worth drawn-out real world analogue discussions when the chaps with chaps are what they are. I was just surprised how few people knew that 'contractor' in terms of warfare doesn't mean 'janitor or handyman with a gun' right now!
I'm not sure that people didn't know that mercenaries are also known as military contractors, but as has been stated before the Epirian contractors aren't trained mercenaries, they are more general contractors, they construct buildings, roads or other facilities. They are plumbers, repairmen handed a weapon, given minimal training and sent out to keep the real muscle (the converted mechs and drones) running.
SacDef (?) are apparently the military contractors.
JohnnyHell wrote: Which is odd, given they're choosing custom gear so often better equipped, vs issue gear in the military. Anyway, I digress. If you can rationalise it in this fiction, that's fine, and not really worth drawn-out real world analogue discussions when the chaps with chaps are what they are. I was just surprised how few people knew that 'contractor' in terms of warfare doesn't mean 'janitor or handyman with a gun' right now!
I'm not sure that people didn't know that mercenaries are also known as military contractors, but as has been stated before the Epirian contractors aren't trained mercenaries, they are more general contractors, they construct buildings, roads or other facilities. They are plumbers, repairmen handed a weapon, given minimal training and sent out to keep the real muscle (the converted mechs and drones) running.
SacDef (?) are apparently the military contractors.
That's right. The standard Epirian Contractor is not paid primarily for military purposes (although they do fight when they need to), but do a whole host of construction, operation and maintenance work in addition to security. When things get really heavy, the local Epirian trustee will contact the head office, who will send in dedicated military contractors from SecDef to clean up the mess - these guys are much better equipped and armed, but are not usually garrisoned at most Epirian facilities.
I was interested to see the SAS comment on kickstarter covering the different viewpoints of the dev team regarding mankind's escape into the void between galaxies.
Have you found that each of you has gravitated towards specific factions during development of the universe*? If so, what are they? (or does this give away secrets to the other two factions?)
*This is not limited to the playtesting as you've currently only got the two factions to play with.
endtransmission wrote: I was interested to see the SAS comment on kickstarter covering the different viewpoints of the dev team regarding mankind's escape into the void between galaxies.
Have you found that each of you has gravitated towards specific factions during development of the universe*? If so, what are they? (or does this give away secrets to the other two factions?)
*This is not limited to the playtesting as you've currently only got the two factions to play with.
When we wrote the novels, initially I wrote the Epirian storyline and Stephen wrote the Karists, and then we swapped in the initial feedback, before I rewrote all of it (many times!) for the final version. As a result when we began I had a lot more attachment to the rugged frontier life of the Epirians, combined with the more advanced technology in the cities, and the conflict between the two. But as I spent more time on the Karist side of the story, I got more and more intrigued by the nature of their beliefs, and their relationship with the Maelstrom.
In terms of all the factions, without giving too much away (as we have plans for that later), I've done a lot of work on the Remnant Fleet and am excited about the modelling opportunities with them, the Broken will be a lot of fun for the potential of making different styles of rebel or pirate warbands, whilst the Kaigus Pact are a really different idea that I'm looking forward to seeing people's reactions to their weirdness!
So in truth I like all the factions, which I guess is a good thing! If I had to pick I'd say the Epirian Foundation because I really enjoyed writing the part of Sheriff Kyle Wynn in the novels and I'm looking forward to making an army of the Desert Rats led by him.
The staff of Kickstarter has selected us as one of the notable Game projects going on at the moment, so we'll be featured more on their website. They don't give it out that often (I think about 10% of projects), so it's a nice distinction to have.
The staff of Kickstarter has selected us as one of the notable Game projects going on at the moment, so we'll be featured more on their website. They don't give it out that often (I think about 10% of projects), so it's a nice distinction to have.
Congrats! it's the last on the second page of staff picks. But awesome none the less! I am impressed how fast this got funded, and with any luck it will get funded even further!
I am hoping to paste an ad at my FLGS and see if we can't get some more people to buy in!
I downloaded the PDF intro rules, and I love it! Suppression adds so much depth, but it's a lot simpler than I thought it would be which is awesome. My favourite part has to be the VS. rolls though, they simplify everything so much. Keep up the good work!
Looks good, I'll be backing if for nothing more than to support a community-driven game.
I can't read through all the rules while at work, but it seems pretty decent, the VS rule might be too simplified, but I'll give it a shot first!
Do you plan on having tournament formats? I know you said it would be a long way off, but a rules pack similar to how privateer press handles steamroller/masters events or outlaw studios handles gunslinger events would be a nice development if this game gets some traction.
In for 90! Like all the models except the basic contractors that are just kinda all right. But I am mostly looking forwards to the rules, it's definatley a size of batlle that I am interested in and facing, supression and so on sounds swell. And I will add more scenery sprues to my pledge - an excellent idea indeed!
Also the game and the entire setting could quite easily be transplanted to the grim dark setting which I actually kind of love even to the game has become unplayable to me both because of extreme rules bloat and crazy prizing. The IoM is huge and this is just a remote spiral arm... The Maelstrom can be an expanding warp storm via stable warp routes, the karists are obviously unwitting Tzeentch worshipers, and the Epirians? Hmm - either an independet isolated capitalist society or maybe Tau-sponsored cecessionists from the Imperium?
Grats on 30k! I'm in for a paltry $10 pledge. It's not much, but I wanted to support you guys, and I just don't need any more minis in my life right now Though I might be in for a sprue or two of the terrain bits at some point.
I want to put money in on this, but I really only want a few sprues. I'm pretty sure my brother is in for the full game, so that's already covered. Any chance of allowing sprue add ons?
Barzam wrote: I want to put money in on this, but I really only want a few sprues. I'm pretty sure my brother is in for the full game, so that's already covered. Any chance of allowing sprue add ons?
From the sound of the last update it will be an option down the line (with the encouragement to pledge $1 now to make sure that you get the email update when it happens), but it will really be sprue only - just the sprue in a baggy, no box, no fancy extras, with assembly instructions on the website. So if you are doing sprue add-ons you will get a good price and won't pay extra for anything other than sprue.
I've finished both novels, and found them pretty satisfying. I think Wynn is your 'breakout' character. Be interesting to see if/how the game will feature personalities/famous individuals.
I can understand, but not agree with the Karist viewpoint. Their intentions are all noble and good, but drift pretty quickly into rationalizing during terrible things to serve the 'greater good' (no pun intended).
totalfailure wrote: I've finished both novels, and found them pretty satisfying. I think Wynn is your 'breakout' character. Be interesting to see if/how the game will feature personalities/famous individuals.
I can understand, but not agree with the Karist viewpoint. Their intentions are all noble and good, but drift pretty quickly into rationalizing during terrible things to serve the 'greater good' (no pun intended).
I think that is one thing that the novels handled really well, and that really make the setting interesting for me.
Both sides are overall fairly neutral and seem to have goals and motivations that are fairly understandable.
The Epirians are your basic guys just trying to follow what you might call the "American dream": Get yourself a nice home, a decend job, settle down with a family, and have a good life. That goal then gets disrupted by the Maelstrom and your dreamlife is now worthless and you have to try to save yourself and your family and death scares them.
The Karists are your basic guys that know that there is nothing to be scared of and that the Maelstrom is your way towards a better life if you are prepared for it. They don't want the Epirians to die and go to whatever the ME version of hell is and are trying to make sure that people have the opportunity to be saved and provide counseling and community to people affected.
On the surface both sides are good and there is honestly no reason why they can't all coexist together.
But the Epirians have the people who are greedy for more, corporations and people taking advantage of fear and terror, ruthless people who don't care about a planet full of people left to die in the pursuit of the mighty dollar. They also have people who hate the corporations and know that they are working for bad guys but they are just trying to make the best of a terrible situation so that they can get a ticket off planet.
And the Karists have people who appear to truly care for the people that are scared, providing them with food and showing compassion and who are willing and happy to minister to their needs. And they also have people who are willing to bring the "choice" of accepting the Karist Way at the tip of a knife, who don't care about colateral damage, and who are willing to bring the Maelstrom racing to a planet and dooming a population only to encourage the "right" choice.
There really is no "good" faction and the setting really enables you to build a force that is motivated by whatever you want them to be motivated by.
totalfailure wrote: I've finished both novels, and found them pretty satisfying. I think Wynn is your 'breakout' character. Be interesting to see if/how the game will feature personalities/famous individuals.
I can understand, but not agree with the Karist viewpoint. Their intentions are all noble and good, but drift pretty quickly into rationalizing during terrible things to serve the 'greater good' (no pun intended).
Spoilers for the (mostly second) novel(s).
Spoiler:
Honestly I think the best character on the Karist side was the high priestess who wanted to get the planet on their side first. After her death I think the desperation that the enclave felt should have been a bit more... Heated? Realistically I know there's only so much you can do with limited space but Tarkar didn't come off as desperate & trying to salvage a mission gone wrong while still grieving his close friend.
Maybe it would've worked better if the Epirians had found their southern base first or they had some idea Wynn was on their case trying to expose them. I really wanted to see them that way but in the end Tarkar just comes of like a blood knight.
On a possibly less spoiler ridden point what did everyone think of Mekan? I kind of loved the idea of him but the execution felt strange for some reason.
Pacific wrote: Great to see the total jump up beyond $30k!
Those terrain sprues are bloody brilliant, will be so easy just to make some plasticard boxes and stick some of those on the sides.
On thing that struck me on seeing them is that perhaps they could be used to jazz up some of the MDF terrain that is readily available, which is an option for someone like me who is pretty useless at scrtachbuilding. The MDF looks great but suffers from looking slightly boxy at times and well, MDF-y, so I am excited at the ability to take some plastic bits from the Maelstrom's Edge terrain sprue just to add a bit of je ne sais quois to the whole thing.
Also, can't wait for Lego to post the update today regarding the Kaddar Nova!
I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't end up designing mdf buildings specifically to take the windows etc from the terrain sprues.
Me, I'm going to go with adobe style buildings made from foam board and detailed with the bits from the sprues and whatever else comes to mind. I'll then fill the inside of the buildings with expanding foam to make them strong as I do most of my gaming down my LGC.
I'm going for a 2nd ed Ork style, half a dozen buildings should look good.
Lost Egg wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't end up designing mdf buildings specifically to take the windows etc from the terrain sprues.
Me, I'm going to go with adobe style buildings made from foam board and detailed with the bits from the sprues and whatever else comes to mind. I'll then fill the inside of the buildings with expanding foam to make them strong as I do most of my gaming down my LGC.
I'm going for a 2nd ed Ork style, half a dozen buildings should look good.
That's a good point, well made. I think even a cludger like me should be able to cobble together a basic adobe style building plus it fits in the sort of wild-west, frontier life scenario that the books evoke.
I'll make up templates and share with anyone who'd like them. I made up a load of adobe buildings last year...still got the templates somewhere so just need to adjust the window / door sizes...
There were some excellent templates for that style of building in an old WD, back in the days when GW encouraged that kind of thing...
Foam board, with thinned-down filler painted over the outside to get a rough finish - Worked very well, and with the sprue additions could make a very good sci-fi frontier town look.
Thats where I got my idea from. My templates were just based on that but a bit bigger to match the modern scale of 40k minis.
The textured paint I used is too grainy for my liking and the painting wasn't quite right so I'm eager to re-make them, the additions from the ME terrain sprue can only make them better.
We've reached our first stretch goal, and all the box sets get a free Kaddar Nova model included! This Karist Enclave priest really increases the synergy of a Karist force, as well as having a few nifty tricks up his sleeve courtesy of the cybel reactor on his back. See our update for more info on his fluff and rules:
Oh he sounds quite nasty. The rule snippet with the extra VP/army-wide Stoic for killing someone in his explosion seems to foster a suicide bomber mentality to his usage on the tabletop though. Do you find that this goes against the background of it being a rare/extreme act of sacrifice? I can't see there being many Kaddar Nova's left if they all try to die in battle
It does not foster much of a suicide bomber type situation as he is too valuable in general tactical flexibility to just throw away, so that tends to only be in the rare circumstances that the tactical situation makes it a reasonable thing to do.
legoburner wrote: It does not foster much of a suicide bomber type situation as he is too valuable in general tactical flexibility to just throw away, so that tends to only be in the rare circumstances that the tactical situation makes it a reasonable thing to do.
...or maybe if his performance has been pretty bad in-game, then you can always blow him up in revenge
Samurai Seppiku, if he fails to lead his brethren to victory, he can blow up and try to give them their best chance to still seize the day in the 11th hour.
I know we won't see a Behemoth mech show up in game (sounds like they're way too big for the scope of the battles), but what about the prowler APC (armored or unarmored)? A little unnecessary at the size of the battle, but they sound pretty cool and I want one
I know we won't see a Behemoth mech show up in game (sounds like they're way too big for the scope of the battles), but what about the prowler APC (armored or unarmored)? A little unnecessary at the size of the battle, but they sound pretty cool and I want one
Failing that, will there at least be rules for incorporating vehicles even if there aren't models for them?
It wouldn't be difficult to proxy a generic sci-fi APC, which is something I might do anyway, even if it's just as terrain.
GrimDork wrote:Samurai Seppiku, if he fails to lead his brethren to victory, he can blow up and try to give them their best chance to still seize the day in the 11th hour.
I know we won't see a Behemoth mech show up in game (sounds like they're way too big for the scope of the battles), but what about the prowler APC (armored or unarmored)? A little unnecessary at the size of the battle, but they sound pretty cool and I want one
I know we won't see a Behemoth mech show up in game (sounds like they're way too big for the scope of the battles), but what about the prowler APC (armored or unarmored)? A little unnecessary at the size of the battle, but they sound pretty cool and I want one
Failing that, will there at least be rules for incorporating vehicles even if there aren't models for them?
It wouldn't be difficult to proxy a generic sci-fi APC, which is something I might do anyway, even if it's just as terrain.
yakface has written the rules for vehicles but they won't be in the initial set - the cost of making an APC or big walker was too much to take on for the initial launch. I'm not sure if he's planning to include those rules in the book for the first game - we'll get back to you on that. If things go well we would like to make Behemoths and Prowlers later, but that would be a long way down the line as the priority would be getting new factions out. We do have the Hunter and Scarecrow mechs still to reveal though - they should fulfill some of that desire for big stompy robots!
Will we see the actual model for the Kaddor Nova soon?
I'm well up for blowing him up every game but so far his art is the one and only thing that I have found underwhelming about the whole project. I'm hoping the model will make up for it!
I'm well up for blowing him up every game but so far his art is the one and only thing that I have found underwhelming about the whole project. I'm hoping the model will make up for it!
The model is having the finishing touches and paint job being applied as we speak I believe so will be revealed soon according to the comments on the KS page.
The model is 90% complete, but not yet ready (in plastic / tooling) waiting for another head, another part and 2 arm poses still, so it will still be a while until it is revealed - at the very best it would be at the end of the kickstarter, but more likely it would be after the kickstarter as tooling production slots are volatile and impossible to plan around.
legoburner wrote: Here's the announcement update for the terrain - just $12 per sprue, an amazing $0.38 per element!
Spoiler:
We are kicking off the add-on facility with the most demanded add-on of all - our amazing terrain sprue for just $12 per sprue:
Each Sprue Containing: 1x Large Door, 2x Small Doors, 1x Light Fitting, 2x Microwave Projectors/Antennas, 4x Corner Caps, 1x Small Pipe Fitting (fits a standard drinking straw), 1x Large Pipe Fitting, 2x Computer Panels, 1x Trapdoor, 2x Shuttered Windows, 2x Fascias, 2x Tessellating Trapezoid Windows, 1x Ladder/Walkway, 2x Tech Edge Pieces, 8x Modular Edge Pieces.
Our terrain sprue is HUGE (almost the size of a sheet of A4 paper) and perfectly scaled to work with all 28mm-32mm games. The design is simple - get a box, or some cardboard, cut some holes in it and stick in our doors and windows and add edge pieces, then paint it and you have terrain unique to your table but still thematically linked to any other pieces you make with a minimum of effort. You can also use all of our fully plastic terrain elements to spruce up any other terrain kits you might have, with it adding especially great detailing to MDF and wood terrain kits. Even fantasy buildings can be turned completely sci-fi with the addition of our doors, pipe fittings and computer panels.
Add just $12 to your pledge for each additional terrain sprue you want to add on. As soon as we hit $45K in pledges, we'll be adding one free terrain sprue to every $90 pledge as well!
To help you imagine what you could do with these sprues, here are some of the things our team have made with them:
Hab Unit:
Pre-Fab Shop Before:
Pre-Fab Shop After:
Ruins
Pipes:
All of the above are made with simple materials like cardboard, foam core and plastic boxes and are then made sci-fi by our great terrain sprue. You can see a few more photos on our facebook page.
Add some additional terrain sprues to your pledge today! You will want a lot of them as they are great fun to work with!
Maybe I'm just being a cheapskate grongonard here, but $12 doesn't seem like an amazing deal. Compared it to the Pegasus Platformer or Chemical plant kits which are both great for similar greebling purposes but give you more than twice as many sprues and bits per-buck. At $5-7 a sprue, I'd strongly consider it, but at $12 each the value just isn't there. A shame since the bits are really well done, but as someone who does alot of terrain greebling, 38 cents per bit would add up really fast if making terrain of any notable size.
Still hope the KS does well, but it looks like I'm out.
Pegasus' RRP for their hexagon kit is $16 for 50 pieces (including some really tiny bits), ours is $12 for 32 pieces with no tiny bits. That puts pegasus at $0.32 per bit (including their 'gap filler' bits) and us at $0.375 for larger pieces. Our sprue is huge! Quite comparable I thought.
legoburner wrote: Pegasus' RRP for their hexagon kit is $16 for 50 pieces (including some really tiny bits), ours is $12 for 32 pieces with no tiny bits. That puts pegasus at $0.32 per bit (including their 'gap filler' bits) and us at $0.375 for larger pieces. Our sprue is huge! Quite comparable I thought.
I think it's important to note that the M'Edge terrain sprue has a better variety of bits with less duplication. The Pegasus hexagon kits get a little repetitive.
Is the Kaddar Nova going to include an optional helmet head?
I think the one thing I'm most looking forward to with this line is the Hunter robot. There's something about it's aesthetic that I really like. It almost looks like it should be big enough to allow a pilot. Will the Epirians be getting any light, pilotable mecha in the future, or just unmanned robots?
Barzam wrote: Is the Kaddar Nova going to include an optional helmet head?
I think the one thing I'm most looking forward to with this line is the Hunter robot. There's something about it's aesthetic that I really like. It almost looks like it should be big enough to allow a pilot. Will the Epirians be getting any light, pilotable mecha in the future, or just unmanned robots?
The alternate head is a sort of masked/crowned head, but the piece is so tiny and detailed that getting it in plastic is proving a challenge and is part of the delay with the model.
All of the early Epirian plastics will be independent robots with basic AI that can be augmented by handlers, but they have scope for pretty much everything mechanical in the long run.
Backed the game, I really like what you guys are doing, after backing a couple failed miniature kickstarters, I've learned the red flags to hunt for, and you guys seem to have put in your due diligence. I really hope this game catches on, rules seem decent, though of course some games will need to be played to make sure!
One worry I have, is trying to grab from the 40k crowd. There seems to be some parallels to where one can make the argument it's just a knock off version; cybel network vs the warp, Esperians looking like straight up IG meets Tau, and the kind of "Grimdark" feel.
I can tell they might have been inspirations, and I plan to read the novels this weekend which I'll have a much better understanding. I'm in at $90 so far, and it should be going up.
Grats again on this, it seems like an amazing idea come to reality.
GrimDork wrote: Behemoths in the book have pilots, not sure if they were a *lot* bigger than hunters or just somewhat larger.
In the books the Behemoth is maybe twice as large as the Hunters, but we've not done any art sketches for them as it was just too big a model for the initial launch and would require too many sprues, so if we did go to make Behemoth models it may end up changing size a little depending on the art/sculpting. Hopefully the game does well enough long term that we can make them as I think they'll look awesome but we have a fair few other things further up our priority list in the near future.
Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.
legoburner wrote: Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.
greenbay924 wrote: Backed the game, I really like what you guys are doing, after backing a couple failed miniature kickstarters, I've learned the red flags to hunt for, and you guys seem to have put in your due diligence. I really hope this game catches on, rules seem decent, though of course some games will need to be played to make sure!
One worry I have, is trying to grab from the 40k crowd. There seems to be some parallels to where one can make the argument it's just a knock off version; cybel network vs the warp, Esperians looking like straight up IG meets Tau, and the kind of "Grimdark" feel.
I can tell they might have been inspirations, and I plan to read the novels this weekend which I'll have a much better understanding. I'm in at $90 so far, and it should be going up.
Grats again on this, it seems like an amazing idea come to reality.
Thank you! We put a huge amount of time into trying to avoid as many of the pitfalls we'd seen other Kickstarters experience. So we concentrated on plastic rather than restic or metal, made the models as multipart and customisable as possible, got all of the models designed before we went public to guarantee that we wouldn't have long delays, and tried to create as deep a universe and game as we could. It's so hard to get every last thing perfect but we feel like for a startout company we've made a pretty good attempt at it!
Obviously as I'm one of the writers I hope that you and others will find that our universe is pretty unique - you can't make a space scifi without some similarities to other things but I've lost count of the number of different influences people have compared us to so I figure that means we've done our job of creating a diverse setting (which we want to keep improving and expanding). The feedback to the novels has been very pleasing to me personally as I (and Stephen) put a lot of effort in writing them and it's pleasing that people have both enjoyed them and seen what we're trying to achieve.
Thanks for the kind words and for everybody who's supported us so far, it means a lot to our little team!
greenbay924 wrote: Backed the game, I really like what you guys are doing, after backing a couple failed miniature kickstarters, I've learned the red flags to hunt for, and you guys seem to have put in your due diligence. I really hope this game catches on, rules seem decent, though of course some games will need to be played to make sure!
One worry I have, is trying to grab from the 40k crowd. There seems to be some parallels to where one can make the argument it's just a knock off version; cybel network vs the warp, Esperians looking like straight up IG meets Tau, and the kind of "Grimdark" feel.
I can tell they might have been inspirations, and I plan to read the novels this weekend which I'll have a much better understanding. I'm in at $90 so far, and it should be going up.
Grats again on this, it seems like an amazing idea come to reality.
Thank you! We put a huge amount of time into trying to avoid as many of the pitfalls we'd seen other Kickstarters experience. So we concentrated on plastic rather than restic or metal, made the models as multipart and customisable as possible, got all of the models designed before we went public to guarantee that we wouldn't have long delays, and tried to create as deep a universe and game as we could. It's so hard to get every last thing perfect but we feel like for a startout company we've made a pretty good attempt at it!
Obviously as I'm one of the writers I hope that you and others will find that our universe is pretty unique - you can't make a space scifi without some similarities to other things but I've lost count of the number of different influences people have compared us to so I figure that means we've done our job of creating a diverse setting (which we want to keep improving and expanding). The feedback to the novels has been very pleasing to me personally as I (and Stephen) put a lot of effort in writing them and it's pleasing that people have both enjoyed them and seen what we're trying to achieve.
Thanks for the kind words and for everybody who's supported us so far, it means a lot to our little team!
legoburner wrote: Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.
Thanks ever so much for backing us too
This is true, I guess there is a lot of over-lap between sci0fi universes. Still really looking forward to it, just hope I can get a couple of those scarecrow and hunter models during the KS!
legoburner wrote: Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.
Thanks ever so much for backing us too
I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.
I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.
I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.
Just wanted to point out a few mistakes that you and others might be making when comparing it(source my knowledge from reading this whole thread and the first book).
The Maelstrom isn't another universe, it's a destructive explosion that one faction believes will ascend you to a higher consciousness. The Cybel tunnels from space travel remind me most of the gates in Cowboy bebop or maybe the mass effect gates. People don't travel through the maelstrom, rather are doing there best to get as far away from it as possible. The maelstrom itself does becoem accelerated if it comes into contact with a gate though.
legoburner wrote: Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.
Thanks ever so much for backing us too
I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.
The trouble is, once you start down that route of comparing things, you can always find similarities. FTL is by far the biggest one where the need to travel between stars quickly only has a few ways that really work, at least if you look at just a one-line description. If you really want to be as broad as possible, it's basically wormholes or jump drives (which you can divide into warp, which is somehow going really really fast, and jump, which is more like a teleport using folding space). We decided to go for the cybel tunnels, which is a wormhole like network, and we linked it the dark energy that astrophysics says should be there, as this linked nicely with the idea of the Maelstrom. There's obviously other universes that have chosen to have some form of wormhole for their FTL method, but the main other way of doing it (through a FTL engine built into the ship rather than the ship accessing a physical dimension) is just as well travelled, if not more so - Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, all go down this route.
I appreciate that people could come in and say 'oh, that reminds me of 40k' when told of a couple of details. But people have also told me it reminds them of Star Wars, or Firefly, or BSG, or Mass Effect, or Alien, or a host of other universes, depending on what piece of background they home in on. At the end of the day, if you try and describe any of those universes in three paragraphs, you're going to get similarities, and also miss out on a whole bunch of things that make them great. It's not the choice of hyperdrive vs warp speed that makes those universes memorable, it's the combination of all the technology, aliens, planets, characters and stories that are told within them that combine to create something people enjoy.
We're a new universe, and inevitably people are going to compare us to other things. We just have to keep telling the stories and making the game the best we can, so that people can enjoy what we've made. It's our goal to make the depth of the whole universe good enough that people dip their toe in and want to stay. I don't know if we've achieved that yet, but we're going to keep trying, because we're passionate about what we've made. We can't make every casual viewer of our initial launch fall in love with it, but hopefully over time people will enjoy what we've created enough that people feel Maelstrom's Edge is a universe worth exploring.
legoburner wrote:Pegasus' RRP for their hexagon kit is $16 for 50 pieces (including some really tiny bits), ours is $12 for 32 pieces with no tiny bits. That puts pegasus at $0.32 per bit (including their 'gap filler' bits) and us at $0.375 for larger pieces. Our sprue is huge! Quite comparable I thought.
I wouldn't recommend the Hexagon kit. The Chem Plant and to a lesser extent the Platformer kit would be my recommendations.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:OT: Can you actually still get hold of the Pegasus Platformer or Chemical Works kits ?
if so can I get a link as I've been after the chemical works for a fair while and have not found it
(and if you can't the cost comparison is pretty irrelevant)
Don't want to get to bogged down in this, but My FLGS had them a few weeks ago. They're out of stock many places, but I wouldn't bet on them being gone for too long. The Russia import situation (these are russian products) will shake itself out in a while. If you really need one PM me and I'll direct you to an Ebay reseller who can probably source one for you. Regardless of in or out of stock status the value comparison is still valid. It's not like I can go out and pick up a Maelstrom terrain sprue right now.
I just want to be clear that I think the product is great, just not the price. $12 may be acceptable for some, but it just isn't a bargain (why else would I pay for a product on KS that's already made?) to me and if they're even more expensive post-KS, it's even less so.
I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance.
No problem, a lot of this is down to how little we've revealed to date unless you read the novels. I know that is a big ask for new people to do, but it is totally worth it for those who are even partially interested and we're already well in to triple figures for readers of those novels now as well.
We like to leave stuff ambiguous to encourage discussion but it is worth jumping on a few points...
Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy?
There is no alternate universe in Medge like the warp. The cybel network is part of our physical universe and the Maelstrom is ultimately a gigantic explosion, not the birth (or entry) of a new dimension.
Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it?
To me, it is a religion trying to justify continued existence and create hope where everything is hopeless, though mileage varies amongst the internal team. The angels do not feed on the destructive energies, only the cybel energy that is a direct output product of the cybel tunnels. Everyone is afraid of and fleeing the Maelstrom, even the Angels.
Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels?
...ish. 40k is an alternate/mirror dimension/universe wired on emotion, MEdge is breaking in to physical tunnels of energy that extend between objects of large mass and they are just small tunnels - it does not act as a mirror image of the real galaxy, akin to some very out-there theoretical but real world physics.
I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM)
Thanks, your support will be much appreciated and will help us make the game better for everyone!
but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.
Indeed, this is a problem we've known about and realised, and we considered adjusting the presentation to mitigate any invalid comparisons at surface level perception but decided to keep things as they are on the hopes that as people are exposed to more and more of the universe, they'll see just how distinctive it is. We can be compared to elements from dozens of sci-fi universes, but overall we are one of, if not the most unique new sci-fi IPs in a long time. Our fiction and game is focused on everyone who is trying to survive rather than the specific mechanics of the Maelstrom's explosive growth or the technicalities of cybel travel (though both have detailed documents ensuring consistency amongst our authors). We are not dipping in to any alternate dimensions, we have no psychic forces or energy, and have avoided 'space magic' that does not have a believable scientific explanation behind it (though in many instances those explanations are kept out of public view, we do write them so that things remain consistent and thematic).
p.s. I know darrkespur will have replied in the time it took me to post this, so hopefully we match up
Just wanted to point out a few mistakes that you and others might be making when comparing it(source my knowledge from reading this whole thread and the first book).
The Maelstrom isn't another universe, it's a destructive explosion that one faction believes will ascend you to a higher consciousness. The Cybel tunnels from space travel remind me most of the gates in Cowboy bebop or maybe the mass effect gates. People don't travel through the maelstrom, rather are doing there best to get as far away from it as possible. The maelstrom itself does becoem accelerated if it comes into contact with a gate though.
Exactly. It isn't the warp, at all. It is an out of control forest fire, and the fuel for its burning is matter and energy itself, it is burning away everything it touches, but it is not fuelled by demons and it is not a dark reflection of our psyches. It is not known if it is a natural event or the result of some catastrophe (though seems to be that since it originated near the capital worlds of human space, there is a lot implied there), but it is not supernatural at all from what they said. In fact, I'm not even sure there is any psychic behaviour at all in Medge. The Maelstrom is similar to cybel energy and the key is that unlike cybel (which is quite dangerous itself in its 'natural' state) it is self propagating, that is the huge problem, cybel goes boom but then that's it... maelstrom energy goes boom and boom and boom and boom. It's a tidal wave of fire that from what they can tell, will never stop until there is nothing left to burn.
As far as the Cybel tunnels, this is a wormhole mechanic, the twist is requiring large mass objects. The webway is a gateway through the warp, the tunnels go through a cybel field, but it isn't the warp, it is more like subspace that I can see. The cybel tunnels are no more similar to the webway than they are to the wormhole in DS9, the jumpgates from B5 or any other number of spacefold/warp mechanics in sci-fi. In fact, it is least like the webway as A the tunnels are not reliant or through the Maelstrom and B there is absolutely nothing psychic to do with it.
It's really being the height of superficial to say these things are like 40k to be honest. Look deeper.
I think it is also misunderstood that not every part of the galaxy is under imminent doom. A very cool part, to me, of the story is that the places further away are being forced into conflict as desperate refugees flood their worlds... do you help them? Or do you protect what you have realizing that you will never have enough to feed/shelter the constant mass of humans and aliens running away? Or maybe some kind of inbetween where you cherry-pick the best of the refugees for skill or resources and you leave the rest to die in the cold? You may not need to worry about the Maelstrom for 100 or a 1000 or 10000 years... but you do have to worry about the desperate, hungry and perhaps violent people streaming away from it at a constant rate. Like wolves running out the trees in a forest fire, hungry, scared, desperate.
The universe seems to be based on a story about what people will do to survive, what happens to your morals, your mind, your entire mentality both in regards to your own people as well as to outsiders... what happens to society during a massive natural disaster guts the heart of the capital and leadership, who takes over, who has authority? Are allies still allies? Can you count on some things staying the same?
All these things, the mix of them, this is not 40k. Is it grimdark? I guess... but only if you count walking dead or Battlestar or Dune as grimdark as it addresses similar questions in micro. But really, you are missing out if you can only see 40k'ishness here, there is a heck of a lot more to see.
I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.
In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))
Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.
Vanguard-13 wrote: Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.
It takes (#Mass) Penetrations to cause an injury, and (#Fortitude) injuries to cause a casualty. The difference between the two is that fractional injuries are discarded (i.e. if you have 2 Mass and your armour takes 1 Penetration this turn and 1 Penetration the next turn, they don't combine to cause 1 Injury, but if you have 2 Fortitude and you take 1 Injury this turn and 1 Injury next turn, they do combine to put you out of action).
Vanguard-13 wrote: I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.
In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))
Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.
yakface might correct me if I get this wrong as the rules are his baby but basically the more STs you have the harder it is to pass, so the Willpower is the attacking stat, so for 3WP vs 6ST it would be a 5+.
Basically, mass is how hard it is to kill something in one shot, whereas fortitude is the amount you have to whittle them down. A unit of 1 mass but 6 fortitude and a unit of 6 mass and 1 fortitude take the same number of penetrating hits to kill, but the 6 mass needs to be all in one round of shooting (as if you don't get enough hits to overcome their mass nothing happens and it doesn't carry over), whilst you could kill the unit of 1 mass with 6 different attacks each hitting only once.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.
g
In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))
I'm sure yakface will address this better than I can. But you are correct in assuming that the check gets harder when more STs are affecting the unit making the check. It is a VS roll, but it's simply one stat VS one number (# of STs). I suppose that would make the WP stat the 'attacker' and the ST # the 'defender' as darrkespur mentioned above. The suppression mechanic wouldn't really work as intended if the check got easier to pass, the more suppression tokens got stacked on the affected unit. I hope that helps!
*edit - ninjad as well, I should leave these responses to the better informed.
legoburner wrote: No problem, a lot of this is down to how little we've revealed to date unless you read the novels. I know that is a big ask for new people to do, but it is totally worth it for those who are even partially interested and we're already well in to triple figures for readers of those novels now as well.
*snip*
Indeed, this is a problem we've known about and realised, and we considered adjusting the presentation to mitigate any invalid comparisons at surface level perception but decided to keep things as they are on the hopes that as people are exposed to more and more of the universe, they'll see just how distinctive it is. We can be compared to elements from dozens of sci-fi universes, but overall we are one of, if not the most unique new sci-fi IPs in a long time. Our fiction and game is focused on everyone who is trying to survive rather than the specific mechanics of the Maelstrom's explosive growth or the technicalities of cybel travel (though both have detailed documents ensuring consistency amongst our authors). We are not dipping in to any alternate dimensions, we have no psychic forces or energy, and have avoided 'space magic' that does not have a believable scientific explanation behind it (though in many instances those explanations are kept out of public view, we do write them so that things remain consistent and thematic).
p.s. I know darrkespur will have replied in the time it took me to post this, so hopefully we match up
Thanks to you and to the others for explaining the deeper level differences. My original point though was from a surface first impression perspective and the similarities (note that I chose "similar" which is NOT a synomym for "exactly the same" for others reading the thread) that folks might get from reading some of the info. The truth may be out there (to borrow from an old tv show) but not every casual passerby will be inclined to dig for it. I don't think it is too much to give fans novels to jump inot the universe but I don't think, regardless of the quality there, that most folks will choose to take advantage of a preliminary ancillary purchase just to evaluate a much larger primary purchase. They'll simply go off of what is freely available at first glance (as is the nature of first impressions).
This next part isn't directed to Lego but rather the other respondents. You can choose to point out to someone that a tangerine is a different species of plant, 40% smaller, more sour, and easier to peel than an orange and you'd of course would be correct. Unfortunately, for someone who doesn't taste both and who has is already has a bushel of oranges, the tangerine may be similar enough to warrant a pass. You can choose to sit there safe in the certainty of your phylogenetic correctness or acknowledge the similarities on the surface that lead to that (at a deeper level erroneous) conclusion. In any case, I just wanted to give the feedback and won't belabor the point further.
That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.
BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.
But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.
It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?
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MajorTom11 wrote: That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.
BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.
But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.
It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when compared against amply available additional facts no?
MajorTom11 wrote: That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.
BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.
But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.
It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?
If it wasn't a 28mm squad based scifi tabletop wargame (before someone points out the differences in figure count... similar =/= the same) in addition to the backstory surface similarities, I'd agree with your food based comparison rather than mine.. but they both are "citrus" in that respect IMO. It wasn't taken as an attack but rather like a passionate bulwark defence against a perceived assault.
MajorTom11 wrote: That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.
BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.
But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.
It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?
If it wasn't a 28mm squad based scifi tabletop wargame (before someone points out the differences in figure count... similar =/= the same) in addition to the backstory surface similarities, I'd agree with your food based comparison rather than mine.. but they both are "citrus" in that respect IMO. It wasn't taken as an attack but rather like a passionate bulwark defence against an imagined assault.
I guess my opinion is if someone isn't willing to spend the relatively short amount of time to see just how different the two universes are, they probably aren't going to be in our target market, at least to begin with. We've put a lot of effort in to design a new universe (its pretty unusual to have two novels available to read even before release, for example) but if people don't want to explore that universe and actually see what it is offering, there's not much we can do other than keep trying to make what we do better. You can lead a horse to water, and all that...
The unlocked model has great rules. The rules follow the fiction and give a huge range of options, if that is the standard for future special units than I'm very excited.
I especially like the suicide bomber aspect, fits the fanatical aspect with the right rules too. Keep a model alive to use the local aspects or suicide him for the global benefit.
Curious about the value of the Kickstarter versus buying retail at a later date.
What is the planned retail cost for the game? Right now I'm pledged for one copy which will cost me $90+shipping, so probably $100ish total. There's no difference between what I'll get in the retail box and my kickstarter pledge. Is the retail box going to cost $100? Less?
The next stretch goal will add a terrain sprue, but if it is like the first stretch goal then I'd still get it if I just bought it at retail later anyway.
I like the sound of the game and want to stay pledged, but some money issues came up so I'm not sure if actually have a good enough reason besides the good feeling of supporting the launch of the game to stay pledged since I'll get the exact same physical content.
What will the rules PDF and VIP membership for the website cost when available to purchase after the Kickstarter?
They've said they won't know what the retail cost will have to be until after the KS (as the number of units pledged for will have a impact on the volume discount costs they can get from their manufacturers)
but they have stated the KS prices will be cheaper than the eventual retail price
(although I think that's probably manufacturers recommended price rather than 20-30% discounted internet retailer price IF such retailers get the game)
so pledging now will probably save you money (especially if you normally shop at a FLGS), and break even at worse (if you only shop at high discount internet retailers)
Yeah, nothing tends to beat Miniature Market deal of the day level sales, although those don't always show up for the things we want either.
I'm probably gonna stick around for the base pledge, and if certain things are offered and not unlocked, I may see about getting those too.
Should be a bit of a cascade effect though, as more things get unlocked for adding on, more things should show up in the core set, so hopefully still quite a bit of backer cash to come.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah, nothing tends to beat Miniature Market deal of the day level sales, although those don't always show up for the things we want either.
I'm probably gonna stick around for the base pledge, and if certain things are offered and not unlocked, I may see about getting those too.
Should be a bit of a cascade effect though, as more things get unlocked for adding on, more things should show up in the core set, so hopefully still quite a bit of backer cash to come.
Yep, I'm waiting patient for the potential for more addons
I have so many scifi humans that I don't really need more Karists or Epirians, but the drones... I could do with more. Especially when we get to see hunters and scarecrows. Also, both types of angels will probably be fun to paint.
I am also reading through the book, but that is a bit of an ordeal for me at the moment - hopefully it improves. Anyone else read it? (edit: and did you find it as slow? does it pick up?)
I'm kind of sad we haven't seen the bot handler or the shadow walker before being promised the Kaddar Nova. It's not like we hit first stretch goal overnight and we were promised the former two at the first outset of the Kickstarter. It was on there as soon as the KS went live.
I'm also curious to see what the Epirian equivalent is to the Nova as the Bot Handler is release wise (if not rules wise) to the Shadow Walker. I assume it will be the Scarecrow although it's gonna be a long stretch goal (and even longer with no KS exclusives to encourage last minute pledges)
and where does that leave the adult Angel? On par with the Hunter? (makes sense scale wise) but I don't know if we'll be able to unlock one, let alone both and I don't know which will come first on the goal ladder.
Things could get unbalanced fast if one side has a big mech/beastie and the other doesn't. I could maybe see a stretch goal to unlock both at the same time but hoo boy the pressure will be on if we unlock it
bocatt wrote: I'm kind of sad we haven't seen the bot handler or the shadow walker before being promised the Kaddar Nova. It's not like we hit first stretch goal overnight and we were promised the former two at the first outset of the Kickstarter. It was on there as soon as the KS went live.
I'm also curious to see what the Epirian equivalent is to the Nova as the Bot Handler is release wise (if not rules wise) to the Shadow Walker. I assume it will be the Scarecrow although it's gonna be a long stretch goal (and even longer with no KS exclusives to encourage last minute pledges)
and where does that leave the adult Angel? On par with the Hunter? (makes sense scale wise) but I don't know if we'll be able to unlock one, let alone both and I don't know which will come first on the goal ladder.
Things could get unbalanced fast if one side has a big mech/beastie and the other doesn't. I could maybe see a stretch goal to unlock both at the same time but hoo boy the pressure will be on if we unlock it
SAS have said the equivalent to the Kaddar Nova is the Bot Handler, but I've no idea who the equivalent to the Shadow Walker is.
SAS have also said they are going to release everything as an add-on even if the stretch goals aren't met, the stretch goals are to add the extra minis to the box set. Either way they'll all be up for grabs.
On the MEdge vs 40K subject - as somebody familiar with 40K, I skimmed the KS page, and my first thought was - this is a 40K clone with shoddier miniatures. That's my first impression and I don't doubt other fellas might've felt the same. And I can tell you straight off, I'm not wading through paragraphs of text and hundreds of pages of novels in order to establish superficial differences between MEdge and 40K fluff. MEdge models wouldn't look out of place on a 40K table, is what I see, and in a visual "medium" of wargaming that's what matters to me the most.
The second thought was - why would I invest in this over 40K? I can get 40K right now and without absurd overseas shipping. I can possibly get equivalent models cheaper, if I'm patient enough to find good deals on unopened boxes second-hand, and the quality's higher.
The rules might be good, but I can do with just the rulebook once that comes out and play MEdge with my 40K minis; they look similar, anyway.
This isn't meant as an attack, merely an honest outsider's perspective.
bocatt wrote:I'm kind of sad we haven't seen the bot handler or the shadow walker before being promised the Kaddar Nova.
The images of the Handler and Shadow Walker have been on the kickstarter page since launch, under the longer 'What you get in the box' section. Do you mean the rules outlines? The actual plastics for those three models are still in development and are not in a state where we could show them yet as the tools are not yet cut, though they are very close to that point now.
Lost Egg wrote:I think the equivalents its the Scarecrow though obviously the two factions don't have exact equivalents for each others choices.
There are no direct equivalents between factions. The units are designed to counter and compliment each other, but there are no clear analogues from side to side as that would remove the distinctiveness of each faction. The game has been very carefully balanced to date though and we'll certainly be revealing more rules on the level of detail that the Kaddar Nova had as the kickstarter goes on.
-DE-, thanks for the detailed critique. We've worked very hard on Maelstrom's Edge and done our best to ensure it is very different from 40k beyond the models being scale compatible. The number one way to get this across will be the rules/gameplay video which is on the way. A huge part of our motivation for this project was the sheer volume of people who have stopped playing 40k out of frustration with the rules, army building, price and (in our opinions) some of the blander, WTF and more predictable models of many recent releases, and it is those people and their demand for a decent alternative that are a driving force behind our investment in the models and universe.
The whole core team have long since given up on 40k but wanted a game we could enjoy, with a deep universe that evolves and develops and has a scale which we enjoy painting and modeling in.
If people don't want to read a whole novel to get a feel for our setting, today's update has one of my short stories available for free download. It gives a little more background on life as an Epirian Bot Handler, as well as a some hints into one of our future factions, the Broken.
In the main post itself, we talk a bit more about the mechanics of how the cybel network functions. Hopefully people are enjoying these insights into our universe design!
darrkespur wrote: If people don't want to read a whole novel to get a feel for our setting, today's update has one of my short stories available for free download. It gives a little more background on life as an Epirian Bot Handler, as well as a some hints into one of our future factions, the Broken.
In the main post itself, we talk a bit more about the mechanics of how the cybel network functions. Hopefully people are enjoying these insights into our universe design!
Excellent! I'll read that when I get a proper chance
Is there a way to make it available in ebook format rather than as a pdf?
I've set up a dedicated Maelstroms Edge folder on my kindle, which is one of the old ones that doesn't like pdfs very much.
darrkespur wrote: If people don't want to read a whole novel to get a feel for our setting, today's update has one of my short stories available for free download. It gives a little more background on life as an Epirian Bot Handler, as well as a some hints into one of our future factions, the Broken.
In the main post itself, we talk a bit more about the mechanics of how the cybel network functions. Hopefully people are enjoying these insights into our universe design!
Excellent! I'll read that when I get a proper chance
Is there a way to make it available in ebook format rather than as a pdf?
I've set up a dedicated Maelstroms Edge folder on my kindle, which is one of the old ones that doesn't like pdfs very much.
It's a bit too short to be an ebook all on its own, but we will be releasing an ebook collection of a bunch of the short stories we're going to be releasing over the course of the Kickstarter. Not sure exactly on the timing of the release of the collection, but it won't be very far into the future.
This may have been addressed somewhere, I'm not totally sure. So I'm really glad we have reached the stretch goal for the Karist dude, but is there a unit to add to the Epirians? I don't want the Karist dude to unbalance the initial box set, so if he's the only addition then I won't end up using him in games anyways. What do we do to balance him out?
Same holds for any other future stretch goals. If we reach one and we're at a point where it adds one more dude or unit to one side vs the other, will there be a way to balance out the basic set?
Phyrekzhogos wrote: This may have been addressed somewhere, I'm not totally sure. So I'm really glad we have reached the stretch goal for the Karist dude, but is there a unit to add to the Epirians? I don't want the Karist dude to unbalance the initial box set, so if he's the only addition then I won't end up using him in games anyways. What do we do to balance him out?
Same holds for any other future stretch goals. If we reach one and we're at a point where it adds one more dude or unit to one side vs the other, will there be a way to balance out the basic set?
The Kaddar Nova is the leader unit for the Karists, and the Bot Handler is the equivalent for the Epirians (although you can also use that model as the unit leader for the Spider Drones).
We've designed it so that there are six units for each side (all in multipart plastic, and all designed, although a few are still in the last stages of tooling), and these will all be available in the Kickstarter. We'd like to reach the stretch goals where all of them would be included for free in the box set, but that very much depends on how much we raise. Anything that isn't included in the box will be available as an add-on, though.
Hi guys. Thanks for the free story, will try and read that soon.
Just something I've been mulling over for a few days has sort of been touched on, but not enough to settle my query.
Basically I've only ever collected 40K and am therefore used to force structure for games based on number of points and certain required units (ie two troops and a HQ) then whatever you want up to the aforementioned points value. Is this the same way MEdge will work, or will forces be structured based purely on 6 units in a force, consisting of 1 HQ, 2 troops and whatever else I fancy to fill the last three spots up to a maximum of 30 miniatures?
Yeah, I thought I read that. Wasn't sure if it was something we were gonna find out now, later in the KS, or only when we get the rules. Was just trying to imagine how the force was gonna look
Just something I've been mulling over for a few days has sort of been touched on, but not enough to settle my query.
Basically I've only ever collected 40K and am therefore used to force structure for games based on number of points and certain required units (ie two troops and a HQ) then whatever you want up to the aforementioned points value. Is this the same way MEdge will work, or will forces be structured based purely on 6 units in a force, consisting of 1 HQ, 2 troops and whatever else I fancy to fill the last three spots up to a maximum of 30 miniatures?
yakface may want to expand on this, and I believe we'll have a daily update on Kickstarter about this later, but we are using a card-based system for both our army-building and missions.
For army building, the choice of Command unit you pick (the HQ or leader) determines what you can select in your army, which is indicated on the card itself. A themed character might allow you to take more of a certain type of unit, and we may limit the number of units you take with the most powerful (in terms of the unit's on the table ability) Command units, so we can balance the strength of the unit itself against what army it lets you bring. Using the cards for our units gives us the option of several different loadouts for the same model, and also allows us to refresh our army lists more easily.
In terms of exactly what units each Command unit will let you take, that's something we're going to use the beta testing to optimise.
For missions, we use a similar scheme, where each mission is on a card, with the cards colour-coded according to type. We plan to divide these up into balanced competitive/tournament cards, where both armies have the same objectives, and narrative or experimental missions (where the attacking army might have a different objective to the defender, for instance). You can either select a particular mission as you choose, or deal at random, either from a particular card type, or from a mix of all of them. I'm also excited about the potential of using the cards for branching narrative campaigns, but I won't reveal too much more on that yet!
darrkespur wrote: Hi guys.
For missions, we use a similar scheme, where each mission is on a card, with the cards colour-coded according to type. We plan to divide these up into balanced competitive/tournament cards, where both armies have the same objectives, and narrative or experimental missions (where the attacking army might have a different objective to the defender, for instance). You can either select a particular mission as you choose, or deal at random, either from a particular card type, or from a mix of all of them. I'm also excited about the potential of using the cards for branching narrative campaigns, but I won't reveal too much more on that yet!
Please please please use symbols instead of (/in addition to) colors to distinguish types of cards. Warmachine High Command is pretty much unplayable to the color blind for this very reason.
darrkespur wrote: Hi guys.
For missions, we use a similar scheme, where each mission is on a card, with the cards colour-coded according to type. We plan to divide these up into balanced competitive/tournament cards, where both armies have the same objectives, and narrative or experimental missions (where the attacking army might have a different objective to the defender, for instance). You can either select a particular mission as you choose, or deal at random, either from a particular card type, or from a mix of all of them. I'm also excited about the potential of using the cards for branching narrative campaigns, but I won't reveal too much more on that yet!
Please please please use symbols instead of (/in addition to) colors to distinguish types of cards. Warmachine High Command is pretty much unplayable to the color blind for this very reason.
I'm colour blind myself so I can totally understand this! We'll definitely consider that when we come to the final design (most card systems use a symbol and a colour for ultimate clarity).
bocatt wrote:I'm kind of sad we haven't seen the bot handler or the shadow walker before being promised the Kaddar Nova.
A huge part of our motivation for this project was the sheer volume of people who have stopped playing 40k out of frustration with the rules, army building, price and (in our opinions) some of the blander, WTF and more predictable models of many recent releases, and it is those people and their demand for a decent alternative that are a driving force behind our investment in the models and universe.
*Raises hand* That is me right there. I really love the models from 40k and warhammer fantasy, but GW basically did everything they could to drive me away. I need my sci-fi miniature fix!
darrkespur wrote: Hi guys.
For missions, we use a similar scheme, where each mission is on a card, with the cards colour-coded according to type. We plan to divide these up into balanced competitive/tournament cards, where both armies have the same objectives, and narrative or experimental missions (where the attacking army might have a different objective to the defender, for instance). You can either select a particular mission as you choose, or deal at random, either from a particular card type, or from a mix of all of them. I'm also excited about the potential of using the cards for branching narrative campaigns, but I won't reveal too much more on that yet!
Please please please use symbols instead of (/in addition to) colors to distinguish types of cards. Warmachine High Command is pretty much unplayable to the color blind for this very reason.
Seconded. I am also colorblind and am constantly frustrated by having to differentiate between the greyish red color and the other greyish red color. :(
bocatt wrote:I'm kind of sad we haven't seen the bot handler or the shadow walker before being promised the Kaddar Nova.
The images of the Handler and Shadow Walker have been on the kickstarter page since launch, under the longer 'What you get in the box' section. Do you mean the rules outlines? The actual plastics for those three models are still in development and are not in a state where we could show them yet as the tools are not yet cut, though they are very close to that point now.
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I meant the actual plastics. I thought maybe we could get a peek at the Bot Handler and Shadow Walker before being promised another well sculpted, tooled and painted all plastic miniature.
Also, @SAS, I only have one question after reading the Shipyard: when can I buy Angel plushies?
Maybe concept art? I'm not basing my buying decision on this but I want to know if I should get as excited for future releases as I already am 
