cincydooley wrote: It's a bit disheartening to read that so many people think "it could be a good model....once we kitbash it." Maybe I'm crazy, but that doesn't seem to me that we should have to kitbash a kit to make it good.....
Especially such a strongly organic model. I'd hate to think of how much of the model you'd need to resculpt to make it flow right, if you want a more dynamic pose. Machines are much easier - at worst, you only need to reposition a piston.
Yes, the implication that you have to Kitbash a standard model to improve it seems like a hassle. Especially if you need multiple. So far, only the big robots have caught my eye but not enough to make me open my wallet. Nothing else revealed is really that interesting or inspiring to me as yet...
Weird time to have a promotion. Right now or, even better, a few days ago at the latest would have been better. So far, this has stalled and has now started bleeding away money. 3 out of the last 4 days has seen the pledge total turn negative:
So, unless they do have something up their sleeves (which feels less and less likely as this goes on), this will keep bleeding away funds as people put money elsewhere such as what happened with Gates of Antares or Thon (remember that one?). I saw mention of other factions but with Soon™, Under Wraps™ or 7 year plan™ being put out and nothing else really concrete, people aren't impressed and it shows. They need to put out concepts, details, etc while avoiding overly wordy posts. Get people enthused and excited. It feels like they are sticking to a scripted, rigid, pre-defined Kickstarter update plan and isn't really generating much excitement. The Angel should have been an early reveal but holding it till the last few days is risky considering the mixed reaction to it and it remains to be seen if it leads to an increase in funding. Looking at other Kickstarters, this last few days should see project goals being knocked over in short order, not slipping away to only fund with barely a whimper...
I don't know if I'd say they're "bleeding" funds, it's more of a long stall with a (albeit very) slight increase. Though I agree that I wish we had seen some of the other models. I think that's a perk of the digital imaging that a lot of other companies use. However, by comparison with some other Kickstarters that promised big, reaped in huge amounts of revenue, and haven't delivered (thinking of Robotech), I feel this Kickstarter is a solid and confident backing.
The angel is okay with me, not as impressive as the hunters or scarecrows, but I like it. I do wish as well that a lot of this stuff had been shown earlier, I think it could have resulted in a bigger draw in the beginning. Now people have made up their minds and don't bother checking back even when cool stuff (like the Hunters and Scarecrows) show up.
I might be giving the Angels double-duty as miniatures in my DE army, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I didn't notice until now, the tokens in the game are square.
Does this mean they are compatible with Mod Cubes? Or is it simply a coincidence?
((I understand RiTides has the token artwork and will release a set of MEdge tokens at some point. but if MEdge's tokens ALREADY fit into mod cubes, That would be awesome!!))
I think it is a missed opportunity that a more flowing creature could have benefitted by some socket-like joints.
It is outlined these creatures have a variable shape, those flowing lines will certainly push sculpting limits with heavy emphasis on filing (though careful sculpting may be the better way be how to get it nice).
The back fitting has a definite backpack look, I hope there is a purpose for it.
I guess the thought is the other models have good utility for modification while this big guy will be a challenge in comparison. The mold is made however, so this "critique" is pretty pointless.
Talizvar wrote: I guess the thought is the other models have good utility for modification while this big guy will be a challenge in comparison. The mold is made however, so this "critique" is pretty pointless.
Not at all. Your critique of the Angel may influence future products. I can't speak for SAS, but my view is that as long as it is honest and constructive, feedback is a good thing.
Talizvar wrote: I guess the thought is the other models have good utility for modification while this big guy will be a challenge in comparison. The mold is made however, so this "critique" is pretty pointless.
Not at all. Your critique of the Angel may influence future products. I can't speak for SAS, but my view is that as long as it is honest and constructive, feedback is a good thing.
Have you read this thread? Honest feedback, especially concerning any minis that have not been tooled yet, is OFF TOPIC. With red letters, even. Take it elsewhere, troublemaker.
The only thing more neutral than your response is its pose. [/Zapp]
Once again I feel like the odd guy out, since I squeeed a little when I saw it. I love how it looks like a liquid. It has a very Babylon 5 ancient race/ 1990's CGI look to it that will keep it in my play rotation even when not engaged with the Maelstrom's Edge universe. It's hard to find an alien that looks both inhuman and very technologically dangerous, and the angel does both for me without that cyborg-zombie Sedition Wars look. It's a bit Vorlon and Shadow, a bit T-1000, a dash Species 8472, with a hint of Giger's Alien.
I plan to base it on a slightly-tilted surface so that it looms over any mini in front of it. I think that will make the pose less vertical, and thus less static-looking. The spare arms and spare minnow wings will be used to make an intermediate form, or something. I wonder how the minnow wings would look on the angel's 'backpack' or the forelimbs...
Bob, your first line is simply not true! I know that's become a meme here, but honestly, you can provide feedback in this thread, there is a ton in the dozen posts further up this page.
Personally, I do not like just the basic pose of the Angel... however, I think insaniak or Spiral Arm Studios will soon post the incredible work he has done with it, and being a plastic kit it is very easy to make it look pretty darn killer!
I'm all about the robots personally, though . On that note, I am pledged for two sets and have worked out a trade for one of my Karist halves, but not the other - if someone is interested in swapping their Epirians for my Karists, please PM me
Personally, I do not like just the basic pose of the Angel... however, I think insaniak or Spiral Arm Studios will soon post the incredible work he has done with it, and being a plastic kit it is very easy to make it look pretty darn killer!
We get that...but shouldn't the model look "pretty darn killer" out of the box.....?
The Angel reminds me of the old Carnifex. I think there is some nice fluidity with the curves in the Angel's appendages although the legs are a bit too static, I think they'd look better with more of a striding/flowing pose. Since it's plastic I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to assemble it in a more serpentine shape.
That post just reminded me of how awesome the old Carnifex Screamer-Killer looks compared to the Angel, even with a similarly static pose. See how menacing it looks? I imagine it ripping through a tank with those claws, running forward on incredibly powerful legs and screeching like an insane rhino. The angel is not nearly as evocative to me. I like the face, it looks quite disturbing, but the rest of the model combined with the pose just doesn't do it for me.
Grey Templar wrote: It reminds me of the Crysilids from Xcom. This is a good thing.
Pretty much what I thought on both counts.
A raised leg in mid-scuttle, one of the arms slightly raised to strike can all make the difference.
Yeah, cutting the tabs, smoothing out the join, adding putty to join the various lines / folds would be the necessary actions.
RiTides wrote: Bob, your first line is simply not true! I know that's become a meme here, but honestly, you can provide feedback in this thread, there is a ton in the dozen posts further up this page.
Really? Because I was just warned for saying that Medge's big problem is committing designs to tooling before they get any real feedback, and that I hope Medge lets us discuss any upcoming minis before their designs are finalized. It was deemed off topic to the kickstarter and forbidden even though the elephant in the room is that the kickstarter is suffering because Medge went to tooling with designs that really needed another generation of feedback in their design.
(I assume that's why I was warned anyway, and not because this discussion happened in the context of the eventual female Epirians.)
Personally, I do not like just the basic pose of the Angel... however, I think insaniak or Spiral Arm Studios will soon post the incredible work he has done with it, and being a plastic kit it is very easy to make it look pretty darn killer!
I'm all about the robots personally, though . On that note, I am pledged for two sets and have worked out a trade for one of my Karist halves, but not the other - if someone is interested in swapping their Epirians for my Karists, please PM me
The angel's pose reminds me of a preying mantis, capturing more the anticipation of action rather than the action itself. For an intelligent, incorporeal being, it speaks of confidence.
I imagine him as the calm gang member at the center of a pack of taunting, jeering hooligans. Clearly he is the most dangerous.
Looking at the sprue, you could actually use the four claws as legs and tentacles as arms. And cover the back with extra tentacles. Or use the extra claws to make them seem like they are emerging from the flesh on its back. And that is with barely a snip of the connectors. And plastic can be bent with careful force to change even just the pitch of the torso.
I was thinking Epirians with new guns, and give the Karists to someone I like, but with this kit, it is definitely a game that I will provide everything for.
AlexHolker wrote: Especially such a strongly organic model. I'd hate to think of how much of the model you'd need to resculpt to make it flow right, if you want a more dynamic pose..
Not much, since it's only the Angel's limbs that are fluid. And those are all nice, smooth shapes, so really, really easy to reshape.
cincydooley wrote: We get that...but shouldn't the model look "pretty darn killer" out of the box.....?
Opinions are going to vary, obviously, but personally I think it does look 'pretty darn killer' straight out of the box. But as a modeller, I'm always going to look at a model and start thinking about ways I can change it... which is a big part of why all of the MEdge models being plastic has been so exciting.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Really? Because I was just warned for saying that Medge's big problem is committing designs to tooling before they get any real feedback, and that I hope Medge lets us discuss any upcoming minis before their designs are finalized.
No, you weren't. An in-thread instruction was given to take discussion of hypothetical female miniatures to a different thread, because they are not a part of this kickstarter. Nobody was told to not provide honest feedback on the existing models.
Grey Templar wrote: It reminds me of the Crysilids from Xcom. This is a good thing.
Pretty much what I thought on both counts.
A raised leg in mid-scuttle, one of the arms slightly raised to strike can all make the difference.
Yeah, cutting the tabs, smoothing out the join, adding putty to join the various lines / folds would be the necessary actions.
I might see how bendable the plastic gets when heated. Making the legs more flowy will do a lot for it.
I'm actually glad its in that fairly neutral pose. It gives more option for variation. Although I do feel the pains of the less inclined for conversions, its daunting at first.
I'm totally making mine a Crysilid though. I'm gonna sculpt some carapace for its appendages and give it mandibles.
I bet it would look pretty rad with some Tyranid bits bashed onto it. Were one so inclined, it probably could be made to look like the old Carnifex.
I'm fully expecting that we'll see some alternate Angels somwhere down the line. I mean, it does have 3 forms in game. I'm sure we'll see those as actual models.
I'm actually glad its in that fairly neutral pose. It gives more option for variation. Although I do feel the pains of the less inclined for conversions, its daunting at first.
It isn't daunting to me.
I just feel like converting should be an option, not a requirement.
@insaniak -- It seems like you're in the minority with initial reactions in this thread when it comes to the Angel. And that's okay, too.
1) I actually quite like the angel, static pose and all.
2) If a model requires kitbashing/modding to be good, there is a problem. Therefore, I can fully understand people having an issue with the basic figure if that's how they view it.
The Angel is a wonderful model. It just has a nice feel to it.
How do I vote to get the hunter, and I am just letting you guys know I upped my pledge for two terrain sets. Hopefully they get unlocked in a final pledge spree.
However, you know if they are not unlocked that could be totally marketed as a universal product, and have it's own Kickstarter. I mean it's lovely, I cannot see as to why someone wouldn't buy some. I will be as deflated as Tom Brady's balls if they don't get unlocked as they were the main reason I pledged, besides to swap with Ritides.
Could you imagine a single box for that price with all those bits on sprue, opening it up, and then adding it to terrain in almost any game?
I can.
Edit: Not that you cater to me but, a mech booster set would be cool. For instance, if it contained one hunter and two scarecrows, that'd be a sick little box set for later as well. Good luck guys.
Stormwall wrote: The Angel is a wonderful model. It just has a nice feel to it.
How do I vote to get the hunter, and I am just letting you guys know I upped my pledge for two terrain sets. Hopefully they get unlocked in a final pledge spree.
Here is the link to the survey over at the Maelstrom's Edge website, where you can vote for which extra sprue should be included.
I understand the comments about the Adult Angel being "too static," but I quite like it as it is. I'd like to have two, though, so I could modify one to have a more active stance. I've been brushing up my modification skills with Mantic's Plague recently, and monkeying around with reposing / resculpting figures has quickly become my favorite aspect of the hobby.
Vermonter wrote: I understand the comments about the Adult Angel being "too static," but I quite like it as it is. I'd like to have two, though, so I could modify one to have a more active stance. I've been brushing up my modification skills with Mantic's Plague recently, and monkeying around with reposing / resculpting figures has quickly become my favorite aspect of the hobby.
As the legs and arms have no joints a lot can be done with a little heat.
I am just letting you guys know I upped my pledge for two terrain sets. Hopefully they get unlocked in a final pledge spree.
However, you know if they are not unlocked that could be totally marketed as a universal product, and have it's own Kickstarter. I mean it's lovely, I cannot see as to why someone wouldn't buy some. I will be as deflated as Tom Brady's balls if they don't get unlocked as they were the main reason I pledged, besides to swap with Ritides.
Could you imagine a single box for that price with all those bits on sprue, opening it up, and then adding it to terrain in almost any game?
I can.
Not to worry about the terrain sprue, it will be happening whatever the total the KS reaches (and you'll get the ones you added one)
the stretch goal is just to add a free sprue to the box set
I am just letting you guys know I upped my pledge for two terrain sets. Hopefully they get unlocked in a final pledge spree.
However, you know if they are not unlocked that could be totally marketed as a universal product, and have it's own Kickstarter. I mean it's lovely, I cannot see as to why someone wouldn't buy some. I will be as deflated as Tom Brady's balls if they don't get unlocked as they were the main reason I pledged, besides to swap with Ritides.
Could you imagine a single box for that price with all those bits on sprue, opening it up, and then adding it to terrain in almost any game?
I can.
Not to worry about the terrain sprue, it will be happening whatever the total the KS reaches (and you'll get the ones you added one)
the stretch goal is just to add a free sprue to the box set
Oh. Forgive me for being dumb then.
Still if that is the case, the Tom Brady analogy still applies.
I do get the complaints that the Angel is a bit static. I like it, but it is a fairly static pose. But if it was in some kind of cool pose, and you have more than one in the army, that would be even more obvious, and it would be harder to mod the pose to make them different in that case. Of course, it could've been made more poseable, but I don't know how much that would've affected any detail or anything.
The static pose is a good thing. With bases being a far off stretch goal, the model needs to be able to stand on it's own two feet. Given it's top heavy nature, that means a wide base must be made. So that is why the legs are not in some mid-movement stride. Stability.
Same with the arms, keeping the mass balanced and even. So we don't end up with a model like the Tau Commander, constantly falling over.
I also think It accurately conveys the unit very well. It also gives the modeler more options to play with, as it is so pre-set (static). The slightest changes can make it really stand out.
Given how experienced the majority of the players are, I think there will be no trouble modding the Angel. And if a player doesn't have the skill, well, they can always add more sprues to the mix later. Add on Bits and what not. This is only the kickstarter.
At least, this is my opinion and how I got myself to like the Angel
What would have been best is to design the Angel with ball and socket joints on its limbs however it is not an insectoidal creature and the jellyfish like limbs do not work that way. So you have to put complete sets of alternative limbs on the sprue, thus adding cost.
The boxed set is a starter, though and it can't get too expensive. I view the Angel as the equivalent of the Dreadnaught in the 5th edition starter of 40K, a simplified version to keep costs down.
Personally I like the Angel and I think it will be easy to modify but I reckon a terrain sprue would make a better bonus sprue.
It probably doesn't help sell the model that there appears to only be the two demo models of the Angel both built in the same default pose. (I was going to write "one demo model" until I checked the update and saw the photo with the two angles and five minnows again...)
I think the important question is "What's the melting point of that plastic?" for when I finally get a heat gun? Because that seems like it'd be the better way of adjusting the limbs...
Stormwall wrote: Edit: Not that you cater to me but, a mech booster set would be cool. For instance, if it contained one hunter and two scarecrows, that'd be a sick little box set for later as well. Good luck guys.
I would love a mech booster! I am definitely planning to pick up more scarecrows and drones at retail, I honestly think I'm going to have enough Hunters as it is though
yeah,
I love the Angel!
I'm splitting two boxes with ArbitorIan.
He's getting the Karist halfs and I'm getting the Epirians.
I originally wanted to vote scarecrow as I want more of those!
I changed our vote to Angel as I think we need more of these on the Table! They are so awesome!
Can't wait to play this game it's Looking So good.
He's getting the Karist halfs and I'm getting the Epirians.
I originally wanted to vote scarecrow as I want more of those!
I changed our vote to Angel as I think we need more of these on the Table! They are so awesome!
Can't wait to play this game it's Looking So good.
Panic...
I enjoy seeing the two of you duke it out! I've always enjoyed the grots, all-female DE, and Arbites, so this should be a treat!
This last email was one of my favorites, probably because I enjoy converting so much. Enjoyed seeing the Karist with the hood, very nice.
I also enjoy that you guys got some ideas from things posted in the thread, especially the ED-209 and the repositioning of the Tempest's arms to something a little more...comfortable
THIS is how one of the Angels should look. That looks absolutely fantastic, so when I said earlier that I wasn't a fan of the Angel that's definitely down to the posing of the stock model.
And I love the Scarecrow without the shoulder gun. I wonder how it would look with one of the rocket pods from the Hunter in it's place....
We've got quite a few conversions shown to try and help inspire you to have a play around with your plastics as well
Out of curiosity, what are the conversions on this model? Are there just variant bits used or did you have to cut and reglue? Is it normally just one of the stormbolter type double guns per hunter sprue or can you do this with every hunter? I hereby dub this conversion the Big Game Hunter!
edit: I took a peek at the KS sprue page and I wasn't sure if the limb sprue shows two halves of one arm or both arms on that single sprue.
The missile pods are moved to the shoulder pads instead of behind the head, and the legs were cut and bent slightly at the knees, to give him more of a 'braced to fire' sort of stance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The guns are standard... You can build the arms like that straight off the sprue.
insaniak wrote: The guns are standard... You can build the arms like that straight off the sprue.
And quite a few of mine will be built just like that as that is one beautiful loadout. Of course, it remains to be seen if it is the most optimal for gameplay, but I don't think that's going to stop me
insaniak wrote: The guns are standard... You can build the arms like that straight off the sprue.
And quite a few of mine will be built just like that as that is one beautiful loadout. Of course, it remains to be seen if it is the most optimal for gameplay, but I don't think that's going to stop me
That is the loadout that will obliterate units through sheer weight of fire. It won't do too hot against single tough models like an Angel or another Hunter though. It will also be the most points however, as the game is generally centered around multi-model units.
I'm guessing that will be the most popular configuration if you're just going purely by the rules, so its nice that it is also one that people will likely want to take because of how it looks as well.
Davor wrote: So right now, it's in fluctuation on how much I have to pay, ...
Welcome to buying stuff on the internet.
It's a little unreasonable to expect companies to release specific pricing for any country other than the one they are based in, precisely because of that fluctuation.
RiTides wrote:Davor, unfortunately Kickstarter forces companies to choose a single currency for their rewards, otherwise I'm sure Spiral Arm would have set a price for pounds, euros, and canadian dollars.
Thanks guys. As I said, never did a kickstarter and any time I did shop online they were always in Canadian prices. I didn't know they only did US prices and everyone had to convert. I lernt something today.
insaniak wrote: The guns are standard... You can build the arms like that straight off the sprue.
And quite a few of mine will be built just like that as that is one beautiful loadout. Of course, it remains to be seen if it is the most optimal for gameplay, but I don't think that's going to stop me
That is the loadout that will obliterate units through sheer weight of fire. It won't do too hot against single tough models like an Angel or another Hunter though. It will also be the most points however, as the game is generally centered around multi-model units.
I'm guessing that will be the most popular configuration if you're just going purely by the rules, so its nice that it is also one that people will likely want to take because of how it looks as well.
Well now that is just an excellent convergence . Crowd control hunters - love it!
While I can fully understand why people are hating on the releases/poses/models, you guys have to remember that this is essentially 1st Edition.
Heck, 1st Eldar looked like this;
Spoiler:
Which looks really terrible compared to:
Spoiler:
Gotta let them clean up the lines and stuff.
Not sure where your logic is going here. You are comparing models 20 years ago to models now and some how making a strange justification for how something might look several years down the line. People are paying money for the models now and must make judgement on what they look like now not what they might look like in over a decade.
I understand that models improve with both time due to experence of the people making them and the technology invovled but not sure how that has any bearing on a persons opinion of a model here and now and their decision of if they do or don't like said model and if they wish to purchase it or not.
I was wondering something, is there likely to be a Quick Reference Sheet made by the company? I've found those to be utterly invaluable in playing wargames, and I cry buckets of tears when I get a new rulebook without a QRF at the back/separate.
This may have been asked way earlier, but I only got into this at page 70 or so.
While I can fully understand why people are hating on the releases/poses/models, you guys have to remember that this is essentially 1st Edition.
Heck, 1st Eldar looked like this;
Spoiler:
Which looks really terrible compared to:
Spoiler:
Gotta let them clean up the lines and stuff.
I think we have different tastes, as not only do I love the look of the Angel as I said, but I also dig the old early edition models, including Eldar. Yes I agree the new models are more refined, but that doesn't mean I can't like both.
Miss Dee wrote: The top eldar was 2nd edition as the RT ones were Mark 1.
Nah, they're Rogue Trader guardians as well. Released around White Dwarf 127 from what I remember but you're right in that they aren't the original Eldar Pirates released.
I'm only going in for the rules for now, as neither of the current factions appeal to me enough to spring for the extra $80 at the moment. I have plenty of Guard models I can use as stand-ins to get a grasp of the rules to see if I want to invest further when art/models of future factions come out.
That and I like Dakka, so I figure I'd support this project, even if only a small amount.
overtyrant wrote: How do I get rid of these adds in every thread for this KS
Click the (mostly hidden) 'X' in the top left corner of the banner ad under the header. Thanks for enduring - 90% of Dakka's traffic visits just one page at a time, so the big ads are the only way to ensure we maximise exposure over these last few days!
overtyrant wrote: How do I get rid of these adds in every thread for this KS
Click the (mostly hidden) 'X' in the top left corner of the banner ad under the header. Thanks for enduring - 90% of Dakka's traffic visits just one page at a time, so the big ads are the only way to ensure we maximise exposure over these last few days!
I think he means the ones at the bottom of the page?
overtyrant wrote: How do I get rid of these adds in every thread for this KS
Click the (mostly hidden) 'X' in the top left corner of the banner ad under the header. Thanks for enduring - 90% of Dakka's traffic visits just one page at a time, so the big ads are the only way to ensure we maximise exposure over these last few days!
This doesn't exist on the ads at the bottom of every page.
overtyrant wrote: How do I get rid of these adds in every thread for this KS
Click the (mostly hidden) 'X' in the top left corner of the banner ad under the header. Thanks for enduring - 90% of Dakka's traffic visits just one page at a time, so the big ads are the only way to ensure we maximise exposure over these last few days!
I think he means the ones at the bottom of the page?
Do it on the one at the top, and it will remove the one at the bottom as well - they use the same lockout code.
overtyrant wrote: How do I get rid of these adds in every thread for this KS
Click the (mostly hidden) 'X' in the top left corner of the banner ad under the header. Thanks for enduring - 90% of Dakka's traffic visits just one page at a time, so the big ads are the only way to ensure we maximise exposure over these last few days!
I think he means the ones at the bottom of the page?
Do it on the one at the top, and it will remove the one at the bottom as well - they use the same lockout code.
Thanks. That's much less obnoxious, but it still leaves a bit of a blurb at the bottom of the page.
Panic wrote: I plan to paint mine up like the doom guy!
Spoiler:
I bought some Pig iron heads to complete the look. Trim the lens off and GS the vents.
Spoiler:
Oh, very nice! What are those Pig Iron heads called, I may actually do the same if you don't mind as I think full helmets will really help them blend in with the robots better.
Davor wrote: So right now, it's in fluctuation on how much I have to pay, ...
Welcome to buying stuff on the internet.
It's a little unreasonable to expect companies to release specific pricing for any country other than the one they are based in, precisely because of that fluctuation.
Yeah, I've got to agree that this is a bit unreasonable. If you want to buy something from somewhere else, it's on you (and a 60 second trip to xe.com) to work it out yourself and allow for a small bit of fluctuation. Or back on the last day after checking the exchange rate for that day.
overtyrant wrote: Never minded the banner at the top but the one at the bottom of each thread was to much in your face. Thanks for the advice.
They got us talking about them, didn't they? Hopefully that will lead to us talking about the product and then buying the product.
I would back it but for me they are all over the place. I like the big robots but dislike the scarecrows, I like the drones but dislike the contractors. Out of the other faction I think the regular guys would be good were it not for the shoulder pads and I've seen none assembled or painted without them and dislike the rest of the faction. Of course it is all subjective and I would've like to support it but money is tight atm.
bbb wrote: Yeah, I HATE these giant adverts at the end of page... HATE them...
This is the first time I've ever been unhappy with Dakka...
It's for 5 more days, and you can turn them off whenever you choose.
Click the big 'x' at the top left of the banner add, and they go away.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
edlowe wrote: It's a shame that were unlikely to reach the bases stretch goal at 60k. I had hoped we'd have a higher total going into the final few days.
I'm afraid a really dont like figures without bases, it really limits the posing.
Fairly sure yakface has mentioned that there will be an option in the rules to put them on appropriately sized bases sourced elsewhere, at least. Of course, even without that in the rules, there's no reason you couldn't do that anyway and just ignore the base in-game.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: ...
The diorama looks pretty cool, but I can't help feeling like they are defending an outhouse.
ADVERT
/inappropriate
So bitter
About what? A free website that connects wargamers...
What is bitter? Funny images that poke fun are parts of every kickstarter thread. No bitterness required. People are complaining about the banner--I made a joke. Might be a case of the pot calling the kettle bitter.
I haven't even complained about the adverts because I think they're hilarious. Not bad hilarious. Not negative hilarious. Just, "wow, those are big adverts" hilarious.
"I wonder what they're selling here."
Damn, are we not allowed to take any joy in this that isn't spooned out by the committee?
Trying to launch a game that fills the gaps we wanted filling??
I'm not going to post the obvious snarky response. I want the game to succeed. I want the campaign to do well. I want my gaps filled.
But a giant advertisement on the bottom of every page is still noteworthy. And hilarious.
Dude there is a saying about 'gaking where you eat' that applies right now.
How am I gaking?
As soon as you feel less entitled, Check it out, do a Google.
Entitled? As a backer, I only feel entitled to what my $90 gets me. It seems to me that you feel SAS may be entitled to money or success without wanting to deal with all the "gaking" that accompanies it.
And check what out on google?
I'm a backer because this looks awesome!
Can't wait!!
Panic...
I'm a backer, too, because it looks awesome. It also looks like it's stagnating. I hope SAS isn't going to keep doing the same things and hoping for a better outcome (like GW does, for instance).
If you think I am working against this campaign, you are very mistaken.
Yeah,
Bob, you're correct I don't see your position.
donkey-cave cream pictures mark out the donkey-caves...
This is my last comment to you as I feel like I'm feeding a troll.
I made my comment due to my thoughts that the investment by dakka doesn't deserve replies involving donkey-cave cream at the top of the page...
I'm looking at a talented group with a real positive vision.
I'm part way though book1 and I love it!
Panic wrote: Yeah,
Bob, you're correct I don't see your position.
donkey-cave cream pictures mark out the donkey-caves...
This is my last comment to you as I feel like I'm feeding a troll.
I made my comment due to my thoughts that the investment by dakka doesn't deserve replies involving donkey-cave cream at the top of the page...
I'm looking at a talented group with a real positive vision.
I'm part way though book1 and I love it!
Panic...
Bobs post was pretty funny in my opinion, pretty sure jokes are not banned on Dakka and their is no provision that jokes directed at SAS products are banned. If that ever becomes the case and jokes or critique towards them are disallowed and any negative thing said about them is gaking where you eat then Dakka will quickly become somewhere I do not want to post anymore. So how about you firstly follow rule 1. As calling someone an donkey-cave kinda goes against that.
People are allowed to be critical and make jokes about any company or product. SAS being part of Dakka gives them no more shielding from that than any other company and nor should it.
Would be nice if some of the more zealous people in this thread didnt jump on people who say anything other than "This is amazing you guys are the greatest."
Personally most of the models leave me cold but the rules seem interesting. Other people love the models and the rules and that's fine too. Others love some of the models and dislike others. Each opinion is valid and allowed to be expressed and jokes are allowed to be made.
bbb wrote: Yeah, I HATE these giant adverts at the end of page... HATE them...
This is the first time I've ever been unhappy with Dakka...
I'm truly sorry about that, and I hope that you can forgive us.
Since we purchased Dakka in 2007, we have made dozens of decisions over that time to preserve user experience in exchange for not maximizing potential revenue for the site. My mantra has always been that as long as the site pays for its own operation, then every decision beyond that is based upon the concept of: 'does this make the user experience better?'
Anyone out there who thinks we've made a ton of money operating Dakka over the years is sorely mistaken. We have purposely kept Dakka as ad-free (as possible) to maintain that user experience, despite continuing to add incredibly costly benefits like the free picture hosting of the Dakka gallery and continually upgrading our servers to handle the increased user load (as the popularity of Dakka has continued to climb). Not to mention all the man-hours that go into actually running and maintaining the site for which we take no pay.
While the success of Maelstrom's Edge is incredibly important to us, it is not some cash cow we're trying to milk. The realities of plastic miniature production means that an incredible amount of capital has to be invested up front with the intent to make back those costs (and hopefully a profit) over the long term. So Maelstrom's Edge is very much a passion project for all of us. We didn't create it to try to make a buck, but rather because we wanted to make something we thought would be cool and hoped that others would also find cool as well. Yes, Maelstrom's Edge will go to market at this point regardless of how much or how little more we raise on the KS, but having a strong closing can definitely really help to push the project forward, and that in turn could eventually help to fund Dakka, ensuring that we can continue to grow the site without adding new permanent advertising.
However, part of trying to do what we can to get our message across about MEdge does obviously involve temporarily breaking some of those core ideals and putting fairly annoying ads here on Dakka. So again, I apologize for that. Please know that we will not be running further Kickstarters for MEdge in the future, and these advertisements are very temporary (just until the end of the KS in 5-ish days). I hope you can empathize with all that hard work and effort we've put into running Dakka for many years where the focus has been on putting the user experience first, and cut us some slack for this temporary breach of etiquette.
1) The more important of the two for me; what technique/printer did you guys use? My 3D printings are all line-y and grainy, so being able to get things I print to come out model smooth would be nice. Mind you, I went with a budget printer (XYZ DaVinci 1.0) precisely because I'm building non-model things, but the option of custom models would always be nice...
1) The more important of the two for me; what technique/printer did you guys use? My 3D printings are all line-y and grainy, so being able to get things I print to come out model smooth would be nice. Mind you, I went with a budget printer (XYZ DaVinci 1.0) precisely because I'm building non-model things, but the option of custom models would always be nice...
We used most makerbot ranges and a form 1 for prototyping. Comparison and detail analysis requires printing at both 1:1 and 3:1 scales. Both are still quite line-y, though slowing the speed, cranking the temperature a bit, printing with 80-100% fill, scaffolding and platforms and being very very careful with the angle of print helps a bit and lets us get good 100 micron prints with FDM. The form 1 and other resin printers have a nasty side effect of curling sharp edges as they contract a touch when curing, so the details are good to test size and shape, but lose sharpness. We've not shown any 3D prints and probably wont, every model you've seen pictured is final, real plastic, but it has been invaluable for getting the physical 'feel' of the models correct and we'd definitely recommend it to anyone prototyping models. Custom models that are less than 80mm in height and have moderate detail or curves are not viable with home FDM printers without a huge amount of manual cleanup afterwards, but just about work with resin printers.
We've spent a lot of time exploring the highest end 3D printers with a lot of friendly companies, and you are looking at $35K+ to get to 95% of perfect, with the final 5% still needing hand finishing. That 'perfect' still suffers with certain shapes and forms as well.
Panic wrote: Yeah,
Bob, you're correct I don't see your position.
donkey-cave cream pictures mark out the donkey-caves...
This is my last comment to you as I feel like I'm feeding a troll.
I made my comment due to my thoughts that the investment by dakka doesn't deserve replies involving donkey-cave cream at the top of the page...
I'm looking at a talented group with a real positive vision.
I'm part way though book1 and I love it!
Panic...
Bobs post was pretty funny in my opinion, pretty sure jokes are not banned on Dakka and their is no provision that jokes directed at SAS products are banned. If that ever becomes the case and jokes or critique towards them are disallowed and any negative thing said about them is gaking where you eat then Dakka will quickly become somewhere I do not want to post anymore. So how about you firstly follow rule 1. As calling someone an donkey-cave kinda goes against that.
People are allowed to be critical and make jokes about any company or product. SAS being part of Dakka gives them no more shielding from that than any other company and nor should it.
Would be nice if some of the more zealous people in this thread didnt jump on people who say anything other than "This is amazing you guys are the greatest."
Personally most of the models leave me cold but the rules seem interesting. Other people love the models and the rules and that's fine too. Others love some of the models and dislike others. Each opinion is valid and allowed to be expressed and jokes are allowed to be made.
Panic wrote: Yeah,
Bob, you're correct I don't see your position.
donkey-cave cream pictures mark out the donkey-caves...
This is my last comment to you as I feel like I'm feeding a troll.
I made my comment due to my thoughts that the investment by dakka doesn't deserve replies involving donkey-cave cream at the top of the page...
I'm looking at a talented group with a real positive vision.
I'm part way though book1 and I love it!
Panic...
Maybe it's a cultural misunderstanding, but I picked Preparation H because it is a funny product, not to cause offense. I almost went with Ketchup, but I thought it was a little too Garrison Keillor.
They are indeed a talented group. I find the all-in approach they've taken to create an entire hobby around their new game to be ambitious and refreshing. I expect to enjoy ME for years and hope to see it prosper.
I just don't see how turning the thread into a circlejerk is doing SAS any favors.
1) The more important of the two for me; what technique/printer did you guys use? My 3D printings are all line-y and grainy, so being able to get things I print to come out model smooth would be nice. Mind you, I went with a budget printer (XYZ DaVinci 1.0) precisely because I'm building non-model things, but the option of custom models would always be nice...
We used most makerbot ranges and a form 1 for prototyping. Comparison and detail analysis requires printing at both 1:1 and 3:1 scales. Both are still quite line-y, though slowing the speed, cranking the temperature a bit, printing with 80-100% fill, scaffolding and platforms and being very very careful with the angle of print helps a bit and lets us get good 100 micron prints with FDM. The form 1 and other resin printers have a nasty side effect of curling sharp edges as they contract a touch when curing, so the details are good to test size and shape, but lose sharpness. We've not shown any 3D prints and probably wont, every model you've seen pictured is final, real plastic, but it has been invaluable for getting the physical 'feel' of the models correct and we'd definitely recommend it to anyone prototyping models. Custom models that are less than 80mm in height and have moderate detail or curves are not viable with home FDM printers without a huge amount of manual cleanup afterwards, but just about work with resin printers.
We've spent a lot of time exploring the highest end 3D printers with a lot of friendly companies, and you are looking at $35K+ to get to 95% of perfect, with the final 5% still needing hand finishing. That 'perfect' still suffers with certain shapes and forms as well.
Not in the near future but it will be fun to play with when we get some time.
I have cranked it up to 90% and had it on Slow speed, along with having .1 sized layers, but it doesn't seem to do much without HEAVY sanding to get it smooth (So much so that I would have to obliterate the model to do it).
But anyway, thanks for the info; don't want to drag the thread off topic
Is there a way to turn off the constant bombardment of ads about this? I've added custom adblock filters but it's still a bit redonculous.
I have seen the ads 100x and now they're even showing up in the threads I view at the bottom & top. Honestly any desire I had to back & try this game has been washed away by the desire to snub such intrusive & heavy advertising.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: Is there a way to turn off the constant bombardment of ads about this? I've added custom adblock filters but it's still a bit redonculous.
I have seen the ads 100x and now they're even showing up in the threads I view at the bottom & top. Honestly any desire I had to back & try this game has been washed away by the desire to snub such intrusive & heavy advertising.
You can't see it on the black background, but put your cursor in the top-left corner of the ad at the top of the page, and you'll see a [X] highlighted. Clicking on that apparently makes them go away.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: Is there a way to turn off the constant bombardment of ads about this? I've added custom adblock filters but it's still a bit redonculous.
I have seen the ads 100x and now they're even showing up in the threads I view at the bottom & top. Honestly any desire I had to back & try this game has been washed away by the desire to snub such intrusive & heavy advertising.
You can't see it on the black background, but put your cursor in the top-left corner of the ad at the top of the page, and you'll see a [X] highlighted. Clicking on that apparently makes them go away.
Turns off the ones on the top temporarily but does nothing for the ones on the bottom. Thanks though, it does help.
overtyrant wrote: Never minded the banner at the top but the one at the bottom of each thread was to much in your face. Thanks for the advice.
They got us talking about them, didn't they? Hopefully that will lead to us talking about the product and then buying the product.
it's actually had the exact opposite effect for me. I was on the fence (I mean I see the ads fething EVERYWHERE) but them adding more made me decide to NOT get in on it because I don't want to validate this kind of advertising.
If they wanted to show more stuff, they should have showed it from the start of the kickstarter.
Kickstarters may run for a month or so, but they exist primarily off first impressions. The majority of kickstarter people show up to a kickstarter page and knew whether they'll pledge or not. Those people who start pledging from the middle of a kickstarter aren't really being pushed over the edge, but are being introduced to it through hype. Showing stuff in the middle of a kickstarter only works to keep people from dropping their pledges. Once they close the window/tab without deciding to pledge, they're gone for good.
Instead of only a few things to show at start, showing all the infantry, drones, big robots, big creatures, etc to start would have given the game way more of a running start, without the need for large intrusive ads.
Save the partitioning of info for news posts and press releases to tabletop news sites. Although, I suppose since they delayed showing the cool stuff, we're seeing delayed news posts.
Also, a moving side banner would work better since it breaks up the forum flow less. The ad feels more like a crappy pop up since it stops people from accessing commonly used links and buttons.
I kinda agree with others that .these adds .make me less likely to back not more. One st the top is fine it's like other adds .just bigger. More importantly though it'd unobtrusive. The one st the bottom however is pretty Damn intrusive
There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?
Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.
Accolade wrote: There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?
Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.
I just don't think they serve their purpose. You scroll down, see what you think is another post, scroll further and... "Oh god damn it every time...". Inline forum ads are not a good idea imo, and I haven't seen them much before, and those I have seen tend to be clearly marked as ads as soon as you catch a glimpse of them. These have a small text where the username would be, but no one looks at that before they look at the pic in the main body of the post.
Accolade wrote: There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?
Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.
Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.
Accolade wrote: There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?
Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.
Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.
I have seen multiple posts (perhaps more in the other thread) of people talking about quitting Dakka over this.
EDIT: I mean, maybe this is just some poster's ways, I know I see people talking about quitting 40k all the time. The difference here is that you are not paying for it (minus those of us who are DCMs, and I still think a couple of days is first world-grade problems).
Today's update features the start of a battle report between the Karists and Epirians. Let us know what you think about the diagrams, writing and details! Kickstarter locks us in to 640 pixels maximum width for diagrams which is a bit of a pain, but we've zoomed in on key areas of each activation to help with clarity.
Accolade wrote: There's a lot of privilege leaking in here, even still after yakface made an apology. I know four days of a banner you can (mostly) close is a hard pill to swallow, but surely we can just deal with it while they do the last big push?
Now, of course if the banners become a permanent fixture, I'll rescind that comment, but I don't see that happening since yak already made it clear what they were doing.
Its not privilege leaking its people saying I don't like these adverts, people are still allowed to discuss the adverts after Yakface's post are they not? They are not demanding they should be taken down or saying they will quit Dakka due to them merely they dislike this style of advertising and saying that the adverts will, or in some cases will not contribute towards their choice of backing the kickstarter.
I have seen multiple posts (perhaps more in the other thread) of people talking about quitting Dakka over this.
EDIT: I mean, maybe this is just some poster's ways, I know I see people talking about quitting 40k all the time. The difference here is that you are not paying for it (minus those of us who are DCMs, and I still think a couple of days is first world-grade problems).
I havent seen it in this thread.
That said if this is enough for them to quit Dakka they are welcome to do so are they not? They are also welcome to say why they left before they do so. If this makes them feel like Dakka is no longer the forum for them then thats fine.
Wow guys, can you all rein it in a little? Geez. I for one like it that some folks here decided to make their own game, with black jack and scarecrows. Some descisions in the process may have been better than others, but cut the guys in charge some slack, will ya? All this negativity here... seriously, it's not GW you're bashing.
Kosake wrote: Wow guys, can you all rein it in a little? Geez. I for one like it that some folks here decided to make their own game, with black jack and scarecrows. Some descisions in the process may have been better than others, but cut the guys in charge some slack, will ya? All this negativity here... seriously, it's not GW you're bashing.
Feels like it is though? lol.
I don't get why people throw their toys out the pram over something like that. Other places have advertising. What's wrong with promoting a product? It's not like they're using those PITA pop ups that fill the screen.
Back on topic, I look forward to seeing these on general release as I hope to get my mitts on the Angel Minnows for my DE beasts pack
bbb wrote: Yeah, I HATE these giant adverts at the end of page... HATE them...
This is the first time I've ever been unhappy with Dakka...
I'm truly sorry about that, and I hope that you can forgive us.
Since we purchased Dakka in 2007, we have made dozens of decisions over that time to preserve user experience in exchange for not maximizing potential revenue for the site. My mantra has always been that as long as the site pays for its own operation, then every decision beyond that is based upon the concept of: 'does this make the user experience better?'
Anyone out there who thinks we've made a ton of money operating Dakka over the years is sorely mistaken. We have purposely kept Dakka as ad-free (as possible) to maintain that user experience, despite continuing to add incredibly costly benefits like the free picture hosting of the Dakka gallery and continually upgrading our servers to handle the increased user load (as the popularity of Dakka has continued to climb). Not to mention all the man-hours that go into actually running and maintaining the site for which we take no pay.
While the success of Maelstrom's Edge is incredibly important to us, it is not some cash cow we're trying to milk. The realities of plastic miniature production means that an incredible amount of capital has to be invested up front with the intent to make back those costs (and hopefully a profit) over the long term. So Maelstrom's Edge is very much a passion project for all of us. We didn't create it to try to make a buck, but rather because we wanted to make something we thought would be cool and hoped that others would also find cool as well. Yes, Maelstrom's Edge will go to market at this point regardless of how much or how little more we raise on the KS, but having a strong closing can definitely really help to push the project forward, and that in turn could eventually help to fund Dakka, ensuring that we can continue to grow the site without adding new permanent advertising.
However, part of trying to do what we can to get our message across about MEdge does obviously involve temporarily breaking some of those core ideals and putting fairly annoying ads here on Dakka. So again, I apologize for that. Please know that we will not be running further Kickstarters for MEdge in the future, and these advertisements are very temporary (just until the end of the KS in 5-ish days). I hope you can empathize with all that hard work and effort we've put into running Dakka for many years where the focus has been on putting the user experience first, and cut us some slack for this temporary breach of etiquette.
I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.
I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.
Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.
I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.
Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.
But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter. It happened to me twice before I enlarged the screen enough on my iPhone to locate the hint of where the "X" is to close it.
I appreciate your passion for gaming, and for you all providing this website, and for your efforts in creating a whole universe with getting writers on board and such. Personally I do not like the aesthetics of either faction, and i am looking for a different sort of story than the snippets I've read.
I can live with the advertising for a few more days, especially since I've collapsed the images, so I don't understand the "I'm throwing out all my stuff and quitting dakkadakka" though I actually haven't seen that said anywhere except from the people condemning the people who supposedly said it.
I do want to say however that I was more apt to get into the game and back at the very beginning of the campaign, but when people voiced their opinions and were shouted down I was completely turned off. SAS had no control over this happening, it was the general audience of future MEdge players that caused it, it's something that has to be watched in my opinion. The reason I don't go to play at FLGS are because of "those players" who have to be heard and shout down anyone who doesn't like what they like, or know better than others, or my biggest peeve the one who cuss loud enough for everyone to enjoy . I saw some interesting points brought up by others and saw them shot down by others who think they are earning Dakkadakka points by defending every decision made by SAS. I kept quiet as I wanted this to succeed even if I am not part of it. We all need to realize we are ambassadors of the hobby from time to time, and with all new aspects what we say can make or break a persons decision on joining the hobby and creating a larger player add for each other.
If I've offended anyone with what I've said, I'm sorry.
MaxT wrote: Holy gak, I get it, there's a kickstarter going on. No need for it to be advertised on every fething page on the forum, Jesus.
Try reading the thread to see that if you click the "X" in the top left corner, it turns off the advertisements (yes, I realize a text blurb still exists at the bottom, but if that is really getting to you then you might have legitimate anger issues).
I think they hurt more than help. I want Dakka to succeed and I want MEdge to succeed too, but I think everyone on Dakka is already aware of the kickstarter and I'd be supprised if the bottom adverts will actually bring in any extra support.
Traffic through to the kickstarter from dakka has increased by 4x and backers from Dakka have increased by 3-5x, so it is working very well. 90% of Dakka's traffic is from people who visit 1 or 2 pages then leave, and it is they who are the target of the big ads.
But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter. It happened to me twice before I enlarged the screen enough on my iPhone to locate the hint of where the "X" is to close it.
I appreciate your passion for gaming, and for you all providing this website, and for your efforts in creating a whole universe with getting writers on board and such. Personally I do not like the aesthetics of either faction, and i am looking for a different sort of story than the snippets I've read.
I can live with the advertising for a few more days, especially since I've collapsed the images, so I don't understand the "I'm throwing out all my stuff and quitting dakkadakka" though I actually haven't seen that said anywhere except from the people condemning the people who supposedly said it.
I do want to say however that I was more apt to get into the game and back at the very beginning of the campaign, but when people voiced their opinions and were shouted down I was completely turned off. SAS had no control over this happening, it was the general audience of future MEdge players that caused it, it's something that has to be watched in my opinion. The reason I don't go to play at FLGS are because of "those players" who have to be heard and shout down anyone who doesn't like what they like, or know better than others, or my biggest peeve the one who cuss loud enough for everyone to enjoy . I saw some interesting points brought up by others and saw them shot down by others who think they are earning Dakkadakka points by defending every decision made by SAS. I kept quiet as I wanted this to succeed even if I am not part of it. We all need to realize we are ambassadors of the hobby from time to time, and with all new aspects what we say can make or break a persons decision on joining the hobby and creating a larger player add for each other.
If I've offended anyone with what I've said, I'm sorry.
Theophony wrote: But how many of that traffic to kickstarter has been people like me who went to try and close the "X" and instead was directed to the kickstarter.
If traffic from Dakka has increased 4 times, and backers from Dakka have increased 3-5 times, that number would seem to be quite small.
@Theo: here is a post that I had in mind for people commenting on the "state" of this reaching "gotta quit dakka" level. Whether it's said it jest, I don't think it really matters, I think people have blown the "SAS doesn't listen to what to say" all the way to the level of "they're just as bad as GW!"
Spoiler:
Could we make a new thread to discuss the presentation of the Kickstarter and its resulting impression among the Dakka community? Or would that be considered against the rules?
Isn't that this thread? Pretty sure that was laid out in the OP. Either way, once the ME subforum opens up, it will be a lot easier to move into new threads.
I thought so, but then red text appeared after one of my posts so I'll go back to my conspiracy theories to avoid "derailing" this thread further.
Honestly, the whole ME thing is just bumming me out. I am going to give Dakka a vacation until the 4th when all this Kickstarter crap is over.
Have a good week folks!
I was actually tempted to delete my account altogether but I couldn't find the button.
Which again, seems really silly over something that (a) most everyone (excluding the DCMs) pays absolutely nothing for, (b) has been responded to at great length, and (c) lasts a total of five days in one week.
You dont think it matters if someone is joking or saying something in jest? Of course it does.
Also if these adds and the way the and the kickstater talk effects someones Dakka experence enough that they want to stay away from Dakka until it finishes whats the problem?
Personally I only check this thread once in a while. One of the main reasons being that to some posters it seems that any criticism of SAS is tantamount to heresy. Its not unique to this thread and its not all posters. You see similar things in the Infinity threads too but it seems that much stronger here and it makes people not want to voice their views honestly or give their opinions.
Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.
Jesus, what is Dakka going to be accused of next, being composed of Illuminati?
@carlos: I should have been more clear, the comment reads literally "haha, I'd delete my account if I could." That's not really said in jest. Still, why would sour grapes "jokes" like that be necessary in response to a freakin ad.
I've seen a group of posters who have been screaming about being oppressed this entire time. SAS has had the most direct posts from a company, particularly in response to things people don't like (many of which I feel are fair), but there is no end in sight to the "Dakka has turned against us!" All over one ad for five days on a website (most of us) don't pay anything towards. It's freaking ridiculous.
Oh, and I see that they added an extra "close ad" button to the bottom of the page, I can't wait to see how malicious the bandwagon says it is or how legoburner literally came to their houses and burned their Legos.
@accolade, not sure about the oppression issue. some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.
Good on the Admins for creating the X button on the bottom ad too(haven't looked for it yet, but I'm not troubled by the text at the bottom, it was just the huge banners at the top AND bottom of the screen that I was frustrated by.
As for not being a DCM, as that's been brought up a couple times, I've read the perks package and there's nothing screaming at me to back as a DCM. Now if there was a special MODcube that was DCM only, I might back it, but I don't need anymore dice or forge world and there's plenty of content in the not so cool crowd areas. Not to mention an extremely tight hobby budget which is my main reason for stopping GW.
Accolade wrote: Jesus, what is Dakka going to be accused of next, being composed of Illuminati?
@carlos: I should have been more clear, the comment reads literally "haha, I'd delete my account if I could." That's not really said in jest. Still, why would sour grapes "jokes" like that be necessary in response to a freakin ad.
I've seen a group of posters who have been screaming about being oppressed this entire time. SAS has had the most direct posts from a company, particularly in response to things people don't like (many of which I feel are fair), but there is no end in sight to the "Dakka has turned against us!" All over one ad for five days on a website (most of us) don't pay anything towards. It's freaking ridiculous.
Oh, and I see that they added an extra "close ad" button to the bottom of the page, I can't wait to see how malicious the bandwagon says it is or how legoburner literally came to their houses and burned their Legos.
The I would delete my account if I could but can't find the button looks like a joke in reference to the fact that they the close advert button was difficult to find because it blended into the background. Seems like a joke to me. What's the problem with someone making a joke. He even puts an emote at the end it didn't seem serious at all to me and even if it was what's the problem as I have said before if people feel the adverts are enough to put them off dakka then they have every right to leave and every right to express that. And dakka have every right to feel the adverts are worth the loss or the claim of the loss of a few members or not.
No idea what the blaming yakface for the decline of 40k is all about. Unless he is on gw board of directors that's pure nonsense.
MLaw wrote: I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline..
Er... what?
Theophony wrote: @accolade, not sure about the oppression issue. some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.
I suspect that you're imbuing posts disagreeing with negative opinions with a lot more angst than is actually there.
You'll get this to some degree in pretty much any discussion online, but it's much more apparent when opinions are a little more polarised. It's really easy, when you see an opinion that is diametrically opposed to your own, to assume that the other poster is being unreasonable... 'My opinion is rational and sensible, and so this person claiming to disagree with me is clearly being irrational, or posting with some sort of ulterior motive.'
When, in reality, the vast majority of time it's just that their opinion is different to yours... we just put more emotive weight on those posts that differ more wildly from our own opinion.
We see this all the time in GW threads... That new model is clearly rubbish, so anyone who claims to like it is instantly branded a 'White Knight' and is blinded by their fanatical devotion to the GW. It couldn't possibly be that they like something that someone else doesn't...
MLaw wrote: I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline..
Er... what?
Theophony wrote: @accolade, not sure about the oppression issue. some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on SAS at all. I was commenting on the backers/supporters who decried anyone making a negative or constructive comment about the kickstarter, model or rules.
I suspect that you're imbuing posts disagreeing with negative opinions with a lot more angst than is actually there.
You'll get this to some degree in pretty much any discussion online, but it's much more apparent when opinions are a little more polarised. It's really easy, when you see an opinion that is diametrically opposed to your own, to assume that the other poster is being unreasonable... 'My opinion is rational and sensible, and so this person claiming to disagree with me is clearly being irrational, or posting with some sort of ulterior motive.'
When, in reality, the vast majority of time it's just that their opinion is different to yours... we just put more emotive weight on those posts that differ more wildly from our own opinion.
We see this all the time in GW threads... That new model is clearly rubbish, so anyone who claims to like it is instantly branded a 'White Knight' and is blinded by their fanatical devotion to the GW. It couldn't possibly be that they like something that someone else doesn't...
I get what your saying, it was actually when I was reading people's responses to other posters comments that I was seeing this. At that point I hadn't made a decision concerning the models myself, but was just REALLY rubbed the wrong way by a self appointed spokesman for SAS. A person who says they have no involvement in the game except being a backer. It's fine when people are adamantly for something, but when it costs potential backers then it creates a problem for the future growth of a system.
It sounds like a fun game. I can not wait to try the beta rules.
The one issue I see however is at the end of this single turn batrep you are at 36 suppression tokens on the field, 24 on the karist - 12 on EC. If you are only able to remove suppression at a rate of 1d3 per unit or 1-1 command points(gained in very low amounts per turn), both sides are going to be vastly overwhelmed by suppression in a very short time and winner will be determined by who gets the lucky auto success roll when trying to activate their unit.
does failing the roll to activate a unit due to suppression still allow you to shake some suppression?
This makes me think that the later game turns devolve playing a game with suppression tokens instead of models.
I also noticed that. Thats gonna need some playtesting for sure. Maybe add a cap, realistically there is probably a point where a few more bullets aren't making a ton of difference.
I haven't seen the batrep, because of work, but I remember playing Stargrunt and that was all there was to it. We never could wound or kill, just add more suppression, and it would never go away, so we became bunked in our respective positions and couldn't do anything.
Spiral Arm Studios wrote: Today's update features the start of a battle report between the Karists and Epirians. Let us know what you think about the diagrams, writing and details! Kickstarter locks us in to 640 pixels maximum width for diagrams which is a bit of a pain, but we've zoomed in on key areas of each activation to help with clarity.
I don't like the diagrams. The problem isn't the 640 pixel limit, it's how you tried to compensate for that.
If I were you, I would look at some of the old 40k battle reports from 2nd edition.
1. Create some simple icons for vehicles and objectives which are recognisable on sight. Just using bigger triangles isn't an adequate alternative, especially if you insist on zooming in all the time.
2. Pick better colours. If white means "neutral" (for the Cybel Refineries), don't also use it to mean "Epirian" (for the Spider Drones).
3. The end of turn 1 map should show what happened in turn 1, because that's the only map that gives any kind of useful overview of how the game as a whole is going. Give each unit a move arrow (but not a shoot arrow) showing where they moved in turn 1 and crosses for any members killed in turn 1.
MLaw wrote: Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.
There's this guy who owns a website. He doesn't ask for a dime, he staffs it with good mods, and seems a decent enough fellow. Him and a couple of guys from the website develop a game for a few years, are looking to bring it to market, and want to advertise on their own website. Again, doesn't cost you a thing to ignore the adverts.
Instead of being a decent human being and simply going on your way, you invite yourself onto this guy's website, prop your feet up, insult him, and then smile while you figuratively poke a stick in his eye. From one human being to another: what sort of things are going on in your life that makes you this type of person? I pity you, Mlaw.
MLaw wrote: Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.
There's this guy who owns a website. He doesn't ask for a dime, he staffs it with good mods, and seems a decent enough fellow. Him and a couple of guys from the website develop a game for a few years, are looking to bring it to market, and want to advertise on their own website. Again, doesn't cost you a thing to ignore the adverts.
He does ask in the form of DCM donations. That is asking not demanding.
I think what the Armyman means is he is not a fan of the INATFaQ whick yakface was chief writer & editor for and as such does not agree with yakface on how to design/balance a game. He's voicing his opinion is a public forum, he doesn't have to kiss yakface's rear just because it'syakface's sight. If he doesn't like the game it's actually good that he voices WHY so they might improve on it. NOTHING is above criticism and in fact I'd much rather be criticized than praised. You learn nothing further from being told how great you are.
There is a difference between thinking someone's idea of game balance is bad and blaming that persons attempt at game balance with destroying 40k. 40k was declining long before INAT was a thing.
Criticism is fine when its constructive. That wasn't constructive.
Grey Templar wrote: There is a difference between thinking someone's idea of game balance is bad and blaming that persons attempt at game balance with destroying 40k. 40k was declining long before INAT was a thing.
Criticism is fine when its constructive. That wasn't constructive.
Yeah, 40k's decline sure as gak isn't due to some group trying to make an actual game out of it, it's to due with the company trying to bleed its customers for every nickel and dime they could, and the customers being plain sick of it. But I suppose that's a different conversation...however, to this conversation, saying yakface is to blame for part of 40k's demise, without backing it up whatsoever, is the equivalent of "I don't like him because he's stupid."
I didn't realize that my own personal opinions required public explanation. I will say this.. Yakface along with guys like the Iron Fist League and other WAAC groups were the reason there's even an acronym for WAAC. Before Yakface had anything to do with some league that I don't know or care about, he was writing articles about "tactics" which were really just beardy loopholes in the rules that started people down a path of looking to exploit the game and metagame rather than simply playing the game. You can argue that as much as you like but I played through it and saw the change.
MLaw wrote: Eh, I decided not to back after all. I personally blame Yakface for a portion of 40k's decline.. so I'm not eager to play rules written by him, I'm not overly fond of the sculpts, and the spammy nature of the advertising have all come together to pull me away from my original decision to throw in on this.
There's this guy who owns a website. He doesn't ask for a dime, he staffs it with good mods, and seems a decent enough fellow. Him and a couple of guys from the website develop a game for a few years, are looking to bring it to market, and want to advertise on their own website. Again, doesn't cost you a thing to ignore the adverts.
Instead of being a decent human being and simply going on your way, you invite yourself onto this guy's website, prop your feet up, insult him, and then smile while you figuratively poke a stick in his eye. From one human being to another: what sort of things are going on in your life that makes you this type of person? I pity you, Mlaw.
Yeah sure, I propped my feet up, shot his dog, drank his booze, had my way with his wife and daughter, and then burned the house down. This is melodrama in high form pal. It's a public forum. Do you even understand what a forum is? I'm pretty sure this site is not the Yakface fanboy site. Likewise, since this really is just a place for people to come and talk and some business owners to advertise, I don't see how you could be inclined to think I owe Yakface anything. This site is all user-created content.. the only people who do owe him anything are the people who have advertised here.
Whatever the case, my life is actually pretty amazing and I don't know what made you into a blind, judgemental sheep who jumps to conclusions but I pity you.
So you dislike Yakface because he and a bunch of other guys tried to make 40k a balanced game?
Its fine to have your own opinions, but its a pretty petty one. Its even pettier to extrapolate that into an unrelated endeavor. Of course you aren't obligated to support MEdge, but spouting criticism of the game because you have a personal grudge against one of the developers is childish. At least you could withhold judgement till you've seen the ruleset.
They can promote their game as much as they want. I don't have a problem with it and they even said it was just temporary and apologized for crying out loud.
If you don't like it then leave. Other sites would be dropping the ban hammer left and right on the whiners. But, dakka is cool is like that, so you all should be happy they are even indulging your arguments
Ok, this sniping back and forth has to ease up now that we have started veering well towards (and almost going past) breaking rule #1. I'd rather not have to hand any warnings out.
Feel free to disagree with either the pro-ME or anti-ME side. Make good arguments, fine. But characterising one side as just 'having a bitch fest', "blind judgmental sheep", or saying "just get out of this site already" is hardly how you have an honest argument. Even when we disagree strongly, we should at least try and maintain a facade of politeness.
MLaw wrote: I didn't realize that my own personal opinions required public explanation. I will say this.. Yakface along with guys like the Iron Fist League and other WAAC groups were the reason there's even an acronym for WAAC. Before Yakface had anything to do with some league that I don't know or care about, he was writing articles about "tactics" which were really just beardy loopholes in the rules that started people down a path of looking to exploit the game and metagame rather than simply playing the game. You can argue that as much as you like but I played through it and saw the change.
Yakface is personally responsible for the concept of min/max lists in a wargame? Hot damn. I managed to do those when I started playing LOTR back in 2002/3. He must have been secretly psychically influencing me or something, even then.
My eyes have been opened!
Back on subject, I think the batrep would have benefited from some clearer icons, but I've seen and enjoyed less well laid out batreps online. So there's nothing stopping me from doing it here.
Guys, no worries. If someone isn't interested in MEdge because of my involvement (for whatever reason), then it is fine for them to express that opinion, exactly the same as if someone was interested in MEdge because of my involvement.
I do not take any offense from MLaw's opinion. Although I may not agree with his perspective of what I could have been possibly able to have influenced one way or another in the past, I'm fine with him having those opinions and expressing them here. And I'd actually love to sit down and hear the full tale over a beer sometime of how those opinions came to be formed (maybe someday).
It sounds like a fun game. I can not wait to try the beta rules.
The one issue I see however is at the end of this single turn batrep you are at 36 suppression tokens on the field, 24 on the karist - 12 on EC. If you are only able to remove suppression at a rate of 1d3 per unit or 1-1 command points(gained in very low amounts per turn), both sides are going to be vastly overwhelmed by suppression in a very short time and winner will be determined by who gets the lucky auto success roll when trying to activate their unit.
does failing the roll to activate a unit due to suppression still allow you to shake some suppression?
This makes me think that the later game turns devolve playing a game with suppression tokens instead of models.
Grey Templar wrote:I also noticed that. Thats gonna need some playtesting for sure. Maybe add a cap, realistically there is probably a point where a few more bullets aren't making a ton of difference.
Mathieu Raymond wrote:I haven't seen the batrep, because of work, but I remember playing Stargrunt and that was all there was to it. We never could wound or kill, just add more suppression, and it would never go away, so we became bunked in our respective positions and couldn't do anything.
If you fail an activation discipline check, then you'll automatically get to shake-off an extra D3 suppression, no matter what (2D3). Then on top of that, if the unit is pinned as part of the action where it fails that activation discipline check, then you shake-off an extra D3 suppression on top of that (so 3D3).
Combine this with the fact that you generate more command points as the game goes on (equal to the turn number), and that means you're generally able to save those command points to use for ST removal if you really feel the need.
So in testing, suppression builds up until it reaches a critical point and you fail your activation discipline check, but then the 2D3 or 3D3 shake-off usually takes care quite a bit of that (as long as you don't roll horribly), which means a unit tends to only lose 1 turn of optimal activation because they fail their activation discipline check unless the enemy continues to make a point to suppress them.
It seems to have been pretty balanced up to this point, but there is definitely still room to tweak it if that's found not to be the case by most players.
Firstly, for me, the setting doesn't distinguish itself from other settings. The 'Maelstrom' seems too much like the 'Eye of Terror'. There's nothing really new or innovative about the fluff to interest me.
Secondly, I've had a read through the game mechanics and the suppression tokens seem like they would become really fiddly. The game seems to be heavily built around this mechanic therefore it's a deal breaker for me. In comparison Infinity is based around AROs which is an innovative and interesting rule. There doesn't seem to be much new and exciting here rules-wise either.
Finally the models are, again, very generic sci-fi and seem a little dated, like a 1980s sci-fi setting. If this is what you were going for, fair enough, but it doesn't appeal.
Having said all of that I wish Yakface et al the best of luck with this, and after the very successful kickstarter it seems like my opinion is very much in a minority.
tyrannosaurus wrote: The 'Maelstrom' seems too much like the 'Eye of Terror'. There's nothing really new or innovative about the fluff to interest me.
Thanks for your thoughts, though I did want to jump on this one point as our background is getting a bit buried by the huge volume of additional content we've put out since the start. The Maelstrom is very different from the eye of terror. It is not an alternate dimension filled with monsters, it is a galactic scale explosion, blasting out from the heart of humanity's old galactic centre, and completely destroying everything it touches (like antimatter meeting matter). The Maelstrom is not some point in the galaxy where bad stuff happens, it is rapidly expanding out, and threatens everything with destruction, forcing all who remain into a smaller and smaller space as they flee towards the edge of the galactic disk, fighting over remaining resources and making moral choices that would have been unthinkable before the Maelstrom erupted.
tyrannosaurus wrote: Secondly, I've had a read through the game mechanics and the suppression tokens seem like they would become really fiddly. The game seems to be heavily built around this mechanic therefore it's a deal breaker for me. In comparison Infinity is based around AROs which is an innovative and interesting rule. There doesn't seem to be much new and exciting here rules-wise either.
Finally the models are, again, very generic sci-fi and seem a little dated, like a 1980s sci-fi setting. If this is what you were going for, fair enough, but it doesn't appeal.
Although I kind of agree with the scifi model looks myself, I did back. However I like to back smaller Kickstarter endeavors like this, even if I may or may not play as I can always sell or kitbash afterwards. I think the terrain sprue though is pretty awesome as there aren't a lot of terrain mod pieces through other areas. I think right there they have a market on their own, if they stick to plastic, that allows modifications to existing terrain, simple boxes to make them better looking.
I am a bit skeptical of the suppression mechanic, I wouldn't exactly call it fiddly though. To be fair a lot of people though Infinity AROs are fiddly, too rules thick when it first came out. After awhile of people understanding the flow of game play better, becoming refined and explained better it is now seen as a simple, fun system and fairly quickplay system. I'm more in the, I'll wait and see camp. Admittedly I could play a few games based on what has been released so far, but I haven't had time to play it out.
"Your breaks been over for five minutes. Git your lazy butt up!" Storms off ranting about how he wishes he'd joined the imperial guard and how he could have been a commissar and been given a promotion for shooting the lazy lookout.
Firstly, for me, the setting doesn't distinguish itself from other settings. The 'Maelstrom' seems too much like the 'Eye of Terror'. There's nothing really new or innovative about the fluff to interest me.
Secondly, I've had a read through the game mechanics and the suppression tokens seem like they would become really fiddly. The game seems to be heavily built around this mechanic therefore it's a deal breaker for me. In comparison Infinity is based around AROs which is an innovative and interesting rule. There doesn't seem to be much new and exciting here rules-wise either.
Finally the models are, again, very generic sci-fi and seem a little dated, like a 1980s sci-fi setting. If this is what you were going for, fair enough, but it doesn't appeal.
Having said all of that I wish Yakface et al the best of luck with this, and after the very successful kickstarter it seems like my opinion is very much in a minority.
I don't know if you ever played Warhammer epic 40k, but that game had suppression tokens, and IMO, in no way did it detract from the playing experience.
If you fail an activation discipline check, then you'll automatically get to shake-off an extra D3 suppression, no matter what (2D3). Then on top of that, if the unit is pinned as part of the action where it fails that activation discipline check, then you shake-off an extra D3 suppression on top of that (so 3D3).
Combine this with the fact that you generate more command points as the game goes on (equal to the turn number), and that means you're generally able to save those command points to use for ST removal if you really feel the need.
So in testing, suppression builds up until it reaches a critical point and you fail your activation discipline check, but then the 2D3 or 3D3 shake-off usually takes care quite a bit of that (as long as you don't roll horribly), which means a unit tends to only lose 1 turn of optimal activation because they fail their activation discipline check unless the enemy continues to make a point to suppress them.
It seems to have been pretty balanced up to this point, but there is definitely still room to tweak it if that's found not to be the case by most players.
Ok that sounds better. I had read the sample rules PDF and do not remember seeing the part about shaking of the extra 1-2D3 for failed activation.
Still eager to get some proxy games with these rules going. Do you have an estimate yet on when the beta rules will be available?
I am a bit skeptical of the suppression mechanic, I wouldn't exactly call it fiddly though. To be fair a lot of people though Infinity AROs are fiddly, too rules thick when it first came out. After awhile of people understanding the flow of game play better, becoming refined and explained better it is now seen as a simple, fun system and fairly quickplay system. I'm more in the, I'll wait and see camp. Admittedly I could play a few games based on what has been released so far, but I haven't had time to play it out.
I think my post came across as overly negative. I was trying to be constructive in order to [hopefully] help the game become a success. I'm pretty much the target audience, having got out of 40k and looking for an alternative.
What I'm trying to say is that, for me, the game doesn't have a USP. Again, comparing this to Infinity [which may or may not be a valid comparison in the opinion of those on this forum, but to me is a valid comparison] Infinity has a number of clear USPs, particularly in regard to AROs - 'It's Always Your Turn'. The anime look of the models is pretty original when applied to a tabletop wargame, and the fluff, while not to everyone's taste, is a welcome departure from a dystopian future to a utopian future. What makes Maelstrom's Edge stand out from the crowd? Perhaps that's something for the developers to think about.
One of the things that has kept me coming back to 40K for so long is the fact that you can play bigger games with it. Skirmish games with a dozen or fewer models can be ok (I still love me some Necromunda periodically) but they scratch a different itch.
MEdge isn't aimed at anything like Apocalypse, but it still runs bigger forces than most of the skirmish games I've seen... and that's a really big plus for me.
Suppression does seem a little complex at a quick glance, but from the demo game that I played some time ago it's quite intuitive once you get going, and it really does add a nice tactical element to the game. This is a system that really rewards you for thinking about the best way to dig out those enemy troops... and punishes you for being impatient and rushing in.
-All plastic, multi-part sprues.
-Arcs + Suppression.
-That it's got a hugely developed background to it, something most new wargames completely lack (and is 40k's biggest draw to me), this is a world that has such scope and appears to be very well rounded.
Can't think of any other game that has all 3 of these, particularly at this model count.
The suppression concept is one idea I really like in Medge. Combined with the fact as far as I hear flaking is actually important could make for a very interesting game for me. Also the model count seems to be around the 40-60 count rather than the 60-100+ count is also good.
Sadly however the only models I really like are the Karist troops (Sans the shoulder pads) and the terrain sprue. Meaning the box set just wouldn't be good value for me. However both of these armies are generic enough that if I buy the PDF rules I can easily replace them with Sci Fi models that are more too my preference.
I also really hope the tokens are available as a stand alone purchase once this reaches retail almost purely for the Supression tokens they are a very nice way of showing suppression in my mind and they are 3d tokens which actually add to the aestetic of the game instead of taking away from it.
I don't know enough about the background to really judge yet but nothing about what I have seen has wowed me. But nor has it made me cringe and go wtf were they thinking either.
Maelstrom's Edge will be one of very few hard plastic sci-fi ranges out there that is what I'd consider a baseline sci-fi game.
40k is Gothic Counter-Reformation Sci-Fantasy.
Mantic is Sci-Fantasy with Corporate social Darwinism replacing the Gothic Catholicism.
Dreamforge is science fiction, but you'd better be into Space Germans. So far. (I'm really looking forward to the Shadokesh line that's coming.)
I think there's plenty of room and potential for a baseline sci-fi game like ME in a field like that. And by "baseline" I don't mean "generic," "bland," etc., but to each their own. As far as my taste goes, the Epirians are generic but usefully so, while the Karists are a unique blend of Stormtroopers supported by Lovecraftian beasties, and I'm all over that.
If you look beyond hard plastic at metal or resin miniatures, of course, there are many other product lines out there. But generally speaking I'm not looking to buy miniatures in those materials.
Just on these ads, I notice the option to hide them now (THANK YOU (not that it is working for me))
I did see this though, which probably explained some of the abject hate about it (while not logged in);
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
◾No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
The whole constant it is too much like 40k is getting well annoying, i can go and say the corporations are like the early warzone games, or void or related to many other out of print or small miniature games, the point is that certain tropes have been (over)used in wargaming (and SF). So it doesn't bother me that much (would be nice if the Medge universe had Bolo tanks though )
So now with all the accusations of dakkadakka conspiracies, with fan boys, white knights, there is a new moniker? Dakkaknights or Medgeboyz?
Seriously though, I really like what I'm seeing so far. I, myself, haven't backed the kickstarter yet mostly due to financial reasons (trying to buy a house... trying to escape my own 'Spiral'... called the 'Rent Spiral' haha).
But who knows... if some stuff falls into place prior to the end of the kickstarter, I'm definitely going to put my quarter up on the cabinet.
EDIT: 67 hours to go? doh! hope something falls into place soon!
Seriously though, I really like what I'm seeing so far. I, myself, haven't backed the kickstarter yet mostly due to financial reasons (trying to buy a house... trying to escape my own 'Spiral'... called the 'Rent Spiral' haha).
But who knows... if some stuff falls into place prior to the end of the kickstarter, I'm definitely going to put my quarter up on the cabinet.
EDIT: 67 hours to go? doh! hope something falls into place soon!
I wanted to post the first sentence yesterday, lol.
I hope it works out for you, I backed it just to keep on being a good lil' DCM and I'm not entirely disappointed. Hopefully as time goes on, everything will continue to improve.
Okay, I took a couple days off posting because I didn't want to be either overly argumentative or draw the thread too far down the direction off-topic for an extended period. And I do apologize if I was rude to anyone in previous posts. Now-
@theophony: throughout the inception of this game, I have felt that there's been an element of people who are just angry Dakka went and made a game, I guess because it means Dakka would have some level of investment in a particular range rather than being entirely 3rd party in all aspects? Are we still cool with CMoN now that they have games then? It seems I t's been one "well I'm no longer investing" threat one-after-another for some different reason since the Kickstarter got going, despite the massive levels of response from the game creators AND their attempts to address the problems (doubling the box set, adding ad closing buttons, etc.). Now it seems to be some of the fervent fans that are the reason for their dismay? Do we say "good work, 5-10 guys, you ruined everything for MEdge because you irritated some posters"? I see a similar group of 40k diehards, but I don't really see people posting saying "good job 40k white knights, you blew my interest in 40k."
I don't know, maybe I'm just on the opposite side of the fence- I personally don't see MEdge as anything perfect or the one true savior to war gaming, but I think it's pretty good so far and has good potential. I just can't understand how one poster making silly comparisons between new and old products serves as a "that's it, I'm out." Does the same apply for all other game systems, because I've seen it everywhere.
And to be clear, I feel that your posts have been largely well-explained and rational, so thank you sincerely for that.
@carlos: again, I should have read his comment more exactly- it read that he was tempted to delete his account, not that he feared deleting it trying to find the X. I just think this is way past the point of reasonable, for a couple of ads that total 2 in email and a banner that you can close. I can't imagine surfing any other gaming website if your restrictions on outside exposure are that severe.
@MLaw: if you're going to call someone out as the bringer of doom to 40k, you really ought to explain your reasoning. After you did, however, I find it crazy that you attribute all of that to yakface. And if most people didn't want the game to be ordered and better balanced, don't you think they just would have ignored him and gone on their merry way? The INAT ended with 5th edition, and 40k has gone on for two editions without any sort of successful attempt to structure the game, and instead made into a free-for-all in army composition and lack of balance. And people have left in considerable numbers (if their dwindling revenue is to represent this).
I dont have money to invest at the moment, so I emailed yakface, no reply.
So I pledged $1, then came to my senses. The minimum bank fee for a $1 currency transaction would be offensive to me. I will end up just wasting about £3 just to have a placeholder.
So I come here. This is a Dakka game right. Can't the devs just hook me in later? Also I would really like to pay in £.
I haven't had time to really look at either the rules or the background. The minis are OK -- some are great, some are average.
I backed because I've spent five years or so on Dakka for free, and £12 a year seems pretty reasonable.
And, I backed because this is a big, ambitious project with some big names attached right from the start, and I love new SF worlds, especially ones designed for wargaming and with fiction by Alastair Reynolds (that's a great combo that no-one else is doing I think!).
I am looking to get in on the terrain sprues definitely. Really, those could have been a successful Kickstarter on their own merit, I think. For me at least they are the best part of the entire project here.
Well overall I would say this is an unmitigated success. Got my free terrain sprue so I'm happy. I'll have to make some bases for my Hunters and Angels but tis a small price to pay.
Grey Templar wrote: Well overall I would say this is an unmitigated success. Got my free terrain sprue so I'm happy. I'll have to make some bases for my Hunters and Angels but tis a small price to pay.
I backed the BASIUS 2 project and will be receiving my basius pads within a month so I am actually looking forward to making bases for them. (and a ton of other models)
I think we've got a shot at the bases - I'm hoping we'll get there! Won't affect my pledge either way, although if anything I'll be adding to it as someone local was asking about adding on some terrain sprues
Man, I didn't know whether or not we'd make it to 60k and get those bases unlocked or not, but now it seems like a total possibility (finger-crossed).
I really, really hope we do because it will make writing the rules a whole lot easier if we know that all the initial models officially come with bases (as opposed to having rules allowing those models to either be on or off of bases depending on if the player wanted to put them on 3rd party bases).
Man, I didn't know whether or not we'd make it to 60k and get those bases unlocked or not, but now it seems like a total possibility (finger-crossed).
I really, really hope we do because it will make writing the rules a whole lot easier if we know that all the initial models officially come with bases (as opposed to having rules allowing those models to either be on or off of bases depending on if the player wanted to put them on 3rd party bases).
So I'm super-geeked at the progress!
Likewise! This was a super funding day, over $9K and almost 70 backers as of now
Would hitting $60K mean the drones come with enough bases to build them all as ground drones, or is it half and half? I'm guessing half and half, or else you'd have to include double the flying bases, too, but just curious.
We've just added a prize draw to win paperback, printed copies of the Maelstrom's Edge novels for free!
We are in the final furlong now, and as always, any questions or comments in the main kickstarter comments area (go to the main page, and click 'comments') are really helpful for boosting our exposure.
They are so helpful in fact, that we are offering a prize to one lucky commenter! If you comment between now (10:20 BST) and the end of the kickstarter, we'll enter you in a prize draw, in which one lucky winner out of every 50 people commenting will get a printed, paperback copy of both of our first novels - Maelstrom's Edge: Faith and Maelstrom's Edge: Sacrifice sent to them by post, immediately! To qualify as an entry, your comment must have some substance, so let us know what you like about the Maelstrom's Edge universe, models, game, artwork, or anything Maelstrom's Edge related!
To summarise:
1. Please go to the main kickstarter comments section for Maelstrom's Edge: (go to the main page, and click 'comments')
2. Add a comment with some substance - what you like about Maelstrom's Edge, what draws you in to the project, what you hope for in the future, etc.
3. You will be automatically entered in to a prize draw to win a free copy of the novels in paperback format, with 1 winner for every 50 unique commenters. Making multiple comments will only count as one entry, and comments with no content or spam will disqualify you from the prize draw.
The prize draw will take place next week, with books shipped out direct from the UK as soon as the winners confirm their delivery addresses.
Is that promotion allowed under Kickstarter's rules? I'm sure that there was another gaming Kickstarter that ran into trouble with a sweepstake for pledgers, and you can only comment if you pledge money so...
Yes, XCOM had SHIVs and the Cyberdisks had drones, but the
teaser video finally had some miniaturization going on in XCOM.
I guess XCOM finally figured out how to weaponize spy sized drones.
Though I guess this was years after Enrique Iglesias.
Too soon?
Anyway, I like the idea of linking the drone to a controller in
the field rather than to an off site guy via camera. I feel like
that gives it more personality to have them in game. King of
like in Infinity as well.
malfred wrote: Yes, XCOM had SHIVs and the Cyberdisks had drones, but the
teaser video finally had some miniaturization going on in XCOM.
I guess XCOM finally figured out how to weaponize spy sized drones.
Though I guess this was years after Enrique Iglesias.
Too soon?
Anyway, I like the idea of linking the drone to a controller in
the field rather than to an off site guy via camera. I feel like
that gives it more personality to have them in game. King of
like in Infinity as well.
I love it as well. The idea that the drone controller is a unit, and actually gives skills or abilities to the Drones is awesome.
Tau did it somewhat, But it felt more like an excuse to make drones more costly at first, and now it simply links target data of the drone and Controller.
I would really love to see other controllers. Ones that give bots abilities, rather then just unlock pre-existing ones. But there's always future expansions!
I know it's early, but I really hope we can see some sort of Epirian bounty hunter. It is a Merc Corp, so they have to have some of the best solo units in the game! ((at least they should.))
Bounty Hunters, Snipers, Sharp Shooters. I understand they are largely Drone based, as you can't have a ton of personnel and be cost effective. But certainly there has to be the 'cream of the crop'. I know there's going to be the SecDef Forces. The "Black Ops" forces.
I just want to see that wild west tech based cowboy that can walk into combat and survive on his own.
Vanguard-13 wrote: I know it's early, but I really hope we can see some sort of Epirian bounty hunter. It is a Merc Corp, so they have to have some of the best solo units in the game! ((at least they should.))
Bounty Hunters, Snipers, Sharp Shooters. I understand they are largely Drone based, as you can't have a ton of personnel and be cost effective. But certainly there has to be the 'cream of the crop'. I know there's going to be the SecDef Forces. The "Black Ops" forces.
I just want to see that wild west tech based cowboy that can walk into combat and survive on his own.
It's definitely something we'd like to do too - the main character on the Epirian side of the novels, Sheriff Kyle Wynn, is exactly that kind of individual - he used to be a 'prospector', travelling to unexplored worlds in search of rich veins of resources, and when the book starts he's a Sheriff of a backwater town, but still handy with a sniper rifle.
One of our priorities moving forward is to expand the Epirians and Karists so they have multiple play styles and army types. For the Epirians, we have several different organisation styles in mind - robotic forces supported by contractor mechanics and Bot Handlers, Freelancer armies led by Prospectors and Bounty Hunters performing missions for rich entrepreneurs and the more military-focused SecDef that gets called in when the going gets really tough. Lots of exciting things for us to start planning for!
On the Beta, they said that after the KS they will send out a survey that will ask what to do with any add on money and if you want to get in on the Beta rules.
Did that $5k show up with the previous flurry of pledges or is it something that's held pending until it can be confirmed (i.e. legitimate vs. someone playing a bad joke/mistyping their pledge)?
Very exciting upward movement nonetheless, I dearly hope we can reach $60k and get those bases!
Accolade wrote: Did that $5k show up with the previous flurry of pledges or is it something that's held pending until it can be confirmed (i.e. legitimate vs. someone playing a bad joke/mistyping their pledge)?
Very exciting upward movement nonetheless, I dearly hope we can reach $60k and get those bases!
You can't hide a pledge, and you can't cancel someone's pledge.
Accolade wrote: Did that $5k show up with the previous flurry of pledges or is it something that's held pending until it can be confirmed (i.e. legitimate vs. someone playing a bad joke/mistyping their pledge)?
Very exciting upward movement nonetheless, I dearly hope we can reach $60k and get those bases!
You can't hide a pledge, and you can't cancel someone's pledge.
Ahh gotcha, I unfortunately don't know the ins-and-outs of KS that well. In that case, I think maybe it was a move from $1k to $5k, that seems to be the most plausible change.
Hope there's more positive moment today then, would greatly like to see those bases!
AlexHolker wrote: Is that promotion allowed under Kickstarter's rules? I'm sure that there was another gaming Kickstarter that ran into trouble with a sweepstake for pledgers, and you can only comment if you pledge money so...
Ditto. SAS might want to look into this. I hope that this was not an off the cuff thing, and that SAS investigated the possible ramifications of this contest, because it is potentially problematic.
AlexHolker wrote: Is that promotion allowed under Kickstarter's rules? I'm sure that there was another gaming Kickstarter that ran into trouble with a sweepstake for pledgers, and you can only comment if you pledge money so...
Ditto. SAS might want to look into this. I hope that this was not an off the cuff thing, and that SAS investigated the possible ramifications of this contest, because it is potentially problematic.
KS old rules explicitly prohibited offering discounts on future products however the new rules are a lot more vague in the wording it depends how you define coupon. At any rate the KS has been a staff pick and lasted this long without issue so KS most likely don't have an issue with it.
As regards the prize draw it should be OK as well the rule is more geared towards KS that are just for a raffle or prize draw that's not allowed this is just incidental to the overall purpose of the KS.
Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
Subscribe for the rules alone. You don't have to buy the figures.
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
I'm pretty much in agreement here. I like some of the models. The rules only pledge also seems a bit much for what you're getting (Though admittedly that is some of my prejudice against thin cardboard tokens/templates)
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
There is a pledge for everything but the miniatures if you're interested in other aspects. The suppression tokens would look pretty awesome lined up towards your favorite minis, as if someone were strafing at them with a machine gun. The card game looks neat. If worse comes to worst, $1 gets you access to the pledge manager/terrain sprue.
The retail release is when they'll really want support, even if it is just word of mouth.
For myself, I'm in the opposite place. I love most of the minis. I'm super-excited for the drones, bots and angels. Even the minis I don't love, I have ideas for. However, I fully appreciate why others dislike or even hate the minis, and apparently express it a little too well.
Sure hope certain talks go through for some cross promotion...
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
It seems to be the case with a fair number of people, pretty much like any game. I think what it comes down to (for a certain degree) is that you're only looking at two (human) factions right now. Were 40k only Space Marines versus Chaos Space Marines, there would probably be many less people playing it.
What I'm getting at is perhaps a new faction will come along that you find better fits your tastes in the future. I wouldn't feel obligated to get the KS if you don't like it, just keep an open mind (as I'm sure you do with most games tbh) and maybe offer this to other people who are looking for something that MEdge offers.
DaveC wrote: KS old rules explicitly prohibited offering discounts on future products however the new rules are a lot more vague in the wording it depends how you define coupon. At any rate the KS has been a staff pick and lasted this long without issue so KS most likely don't have an issue with it.
As regards the prize draw it should be OK as well the rule is more geared towards KS that are just for a raffle or prize draw that's not allowed this is just incidental to the overall purpose of the KS.
"Contests, coupons, gambling, and raffles" falls quite squarely into "heavily regulated," and it is smart for KS to avoid the potential liability.
I would bet my boots that this prohibition is absolutely not limited to 'entire' projects geared towards that type of 'reward'. And as this..errrmmmm...contest...is a new thing on the MEdgeKS page, I don't think the campaign's history of non-censure has any relevance to its permissibility.
It is something SAS should consider, as opposed to handwave away or make assumptions about. This kind of contest could easily be done on Facebook, for example, where there is no cost of 'entry', rather than on Kickstarter, where it could be potentially problematic.
If SAS got approval from KS, rock on, but if it was a spur of the moment decision, it bears further careful consideration.
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
Subscribe for the rules alone. You don't have to buy the figures.
It's a little more complicated for me than that. None of the current models really pull me in, and the next faction is at least 1-2 years off correct? I mean, why would I buy the rules for a game that I'm not sure I'd ever play?
The models don't look bad, but I just can't build an attachment to them. Or at least enough to commit to a pledge.
I feel like I should like this game more than I do. It's a "dakka game", HIPS, science fiction, robots, aliens, guns, long-term support, fleshed-out universe, and all that good stuff I like, but I just can't put a finger on what doesn't engage me.
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
It seems to be the case with a fair number of people, pretty much like any game. I think what it comes down to (for a certain degree) is that you're only looking at two (human) factions right now. Were 40k only Space Marines versus Chaos Space Marines, there would probably be many less people playing it.
What I'm getting at is perhaps a new faction will come along that you find better fits your tastes in the future. I wouldn't feel obligated to get the KS if you don't like it, just keep an open mind (as I'm sure you do with most games tbh) and maybe offer this to other people who are looking for something that MEdge offers.
I have to say the criticism of the minis, and especially the Epirians, seems to be a lot more prevalent and in-depth than it is for "any game". I think dismissing it would be foolish.
Accolade wrote: Were 40k only Space Marines versus Chaos Space Marines, there would probably be many less people playing it.
Not the best analogy considering the popularity of Forgeworlds 30k line!
If I could get into 30k, I'd love it more than 40k by a longshot. I just stare at the monitor and dream about it though.
Hmm, fair enough. I do remember the old Horus Heresy box sets from way back. Well, scratch that! My point was more just about not investing if things don't strike you, and maybe in the future something would.
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
It seems to be the case with a fair number of people, pretty much like any game. I think what it comes down to (for a certain degree) is that you're only looking at two (human) factions right now. Were 40k only Space Marines versus Chaos Space Marines, there would probably be many less people playing it.
What I'm getting at is perhaps a new faction will come along that you find better fits your tastes in the future. I wouldn't feel obligated to get the KS if you don't like it, just keep an open mind (as I'm sure you do with most games tbh) and maybe offer this to other people who are looking for something that MEdge offers.
I have to say the criticism of the minis, and especially the Epirians, seems to be a lot more prevalent and in-depth than it is for "any game". I think dismissing it would be foolish.
I never dismissed criticisms for Epicarians, although I don't know how you quantify their complaints as greater than "any game." I was merely telling SinfulHero to just keep an eye out since he would like to do something supportive but doesn't feel enamored by the current kits. Or do we have to go into "man, Epicarians sucks" again?
Hmm, fair enough. I do remember the old Horus Heresy box sets from way back. Well, scratch that! My point was more just about not investing if things don't strike you, and maybe in the future something would.
Nah, I got your point. Space Marines V Imperial Guard would have been a better analogy perhaps?
Hmm, fair enough. I do remember the old Horus Heresy box sets from way back. Well, scratch that! My point was more just about not investing if things don't strike you, and maybe in the future something would.
Nah, I got your point. Space Marines V Imperial Guard would have been a better analogy perhaps?
Yeah that works well, especially if it was Cadians (not FW ones obviously)
EDIT: holy moly, I realized tomorrow is the deadline! I pledged near the beginning, and since this KS has been longer than most I just kind of lost track of time- I knew it was close to the end but the fact that it is sitting at 24 hours made me think "I better make sure I got everything out in right!"
So I went out bought some overly priced high-end picture frames.
Lego/SAS. Did you guys do any other picture frame dioramas? Aside from the trade with RiTides, that was really what got me to back.
I'm currently trying to figure out how to do a greenish blue swamp with water effects just for those Karists. I am thinking purple lighting would make a nice contrast to dark greens and browns but, I am unsure. I am not sure if that will work though, so time to consult the trusty color wheel.
Anyways. Do you have any other pictures of the red and yellow Karists? (Sorry for being a pest, just curious.)
After deciding that I was not going to do ANY kickstarters this year I seem to have been broken by this project. Expect $90 from me soonish. I don't care much for the Karists but I love the Eprians.
PS. My limited shelf space hates you and your game, I however quite like the look of the miniatures ( and am keen to see how the rules work).
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
Subscribe for the rules alone. You don't have to buy the figures.
It's a little more complicated for me than that. None of the current models really pull me in, and the next faction is at least 1-2 years off correct? I mean, why would I buy the rules for a game that I'm not sure I'd ever play?
The models don't look bad, but I just can't build an attachment to them. Or at least enough to commit to a pledge.
I feel like I should like this game more than I do. It's a "dakka game", HIPS, science fiction, robots, aliens, guns, long-term support, fleshed-out universe, and all that good stuff I like, but I just can't put a finger on what doesn't engage me.
Thanks for all the replies guys, I appreciate it.
Hm. Care to elaborate? Not evena single model appeals to you? For instance, I hate the Corporation footsloggers except for the single dude with the half visor, as that reminds me of a certain character from the original FMA. They're not worth owning in my book. I like the drones but, not enough to want them. The hunter? It's my favorite model so far besides the larger Karists that made me back. The angel? I like the nostalgic feel it gives off but, I will probably trade most mine. Scarecrows are freaking sweet and I hope to see the drone handler soon, his concept is pretty ace.
Moving on to the Karists as a whole, I love all of them. I don't really like the smaller troops but, the bigger ones with the larger shoulder-pads just hit all the right places for me. The minnows... I don't know really, same if not worst than the drones. I would love to play against them or see them in person but, not enough to display or field myself.
That being said, if you want to support it you could go in for a pledge, and trade out the dudes you don't like. I feel like by doing that I got my monies worth and got to support Dakka's game. I would play the game but, no one in my area is even interested.
However, as I said earlier it is a good way for me to christen the new display cabinet.
Bullockist wrote: After deciding that I was not going to do ANY kickstarters this year I seem to have been broken by this project. Expect $90 from me soonish. I don't care much for the Karists but I love the Eprians.
PS. My limited shelf space hates you and your game, I however quite like the look of the miniatures ( and am keen to see how the rules work).
Welcome to the dark side, we have cookies... I honestly thought I would never use KS though I was familiar with it. I am now in for Titanforge Marines, MEdge and Modcube.
Maelstorm's Edge
Legoburner, one of the owners at Dakka Dakka and a friend of mine, reached out to me about his kickstarter Maelstrom’s Edge. Dakka Dakkka is one of the largest and liveliest homes of miniature gaming in the world. Their members are always on the pulse of the hobby and there’s always spirited discussion of the latest in miniature gaming, including our own kickstarter campaign and releases. I’m grateful for their enormous part in keeping the hobby active.
I decided the best thing I can do is reach out to you guys with my own personal and honest take on their project as a miniatures enthusiast and hobbyist.
Maelstroms Edge to me, feels very “old school”. It’s artwork is more rooted in classic Sci-fi and the miniatures are designed for ease of assembly and their appearance as a unit. Looking at the project as a whole, made me realize there is something very interesting lurking under it’s hood.
The core of Maelstroms Edge is the reason I am writing this. It’s a core any tabletop miniature gamer knows very well. To me, it seems Spiral Arm Studio has set out to “master” this core. They are in a very unique position with the experience of running a community that has deliberated and explored this subject more then anyone else. One could easily argue, that they are the ideal choice, the best pit crew, to take apart something they love and rebuild it with a perspective that no one else can possibly have.
That is what interests me and that is why I am pledging my support to their project. Without spoilers, I want to feel and play what they have built and what I suspect will be tuned and mastered version of a very old school core that I do indeed love too!
Maelstorm's Edge
Legoburner, one of the owners at Dakka Dakka and a friend of mine, reached out to me about his kickstarter Maelstrom’s Edge. Dakka Dakkka is one of the largest and liveliest homes of miniature gaming in the world. Their members are always on the pulse of the hobby and there’s always spirited discussion of the latest in miniature gaming, including our own kickstarter campaign and releases. I’m grateful for their enormous part in keeping the hobby active.
I decided the best thing I can do is reach out to you guys with my own personal and honest take on their project as a miniatures enthusiast and hobbyist.
Maelstroms Edge to me, feels very “old school”. It’s artwork is more rooted in classic Sci-fi and the miniatures are designed for ease of assembly and their appearance as a unit. Looking at the project as a whole, made me realize there is something very interesting lurking under it’s hood.
The core of Maelstroms Edge is the reason I am writing this. It’s a core any tabletop miniature gamer knows very well. To me, it seems Spiral Arm Studio has set out to “master” this core. They are in a very unique position with the experience of running a community that has deliberated and explored this subject more then anyone else. One could easily argue, that they are the ideal choice, the best pit crew, to take apart something they love and rebuild it with a perspective that no one else can possibly have.
That is what interests me and that is why I am pledging my support to their project. Without spoilers, I want to feel and play what they have built and what I suspect will be tuned and mastered version of a very old school core that I do indeed love too!
So it looks like we're heading for a 70k finish. Respectable, but I do wonder if it's enough to even cover the costs of getting the miniatures and game supplies into production and the costs for the miniatures that have already been produced. Near as I can figure there's at least 8 different kinds plastic sprues that have to be produced and when it comes to hard plastic, 70k doesn't go a far as many folks would like.
Not trying to be a downer, I hope the game and it's creators do well, just wondering out loud about this.
Necro wrote:Audio books unlocked. I'm a very happy customer now.
Great work guys. Congratulations to all the backers as well.
May even get the bases too....
We already did get the bases!
Eilif wrote:So it looks like we're heading for a 70k finish. Respectable, but I do wonder if it's enough to even cover the costs of getting the miniatures and game supplies into production and the costs for the miniatures that have already been produced. Near as I can figure there's at least 8 different kinds plastic sprues that have to be produced and when it comes to hard plastic, 70k doesn't go a far as many folks would like.
Not trying to be a downer, I hope the game and it's creators do well, just wondering out loud about this.
Lego said this project would have been complete even if they hadn't don't the KS (indeed, it was started before KS was a thing). As such, the project would have went forward even if only for the minimum $20k. That being said, I'm sure the KS has given them a lot of information on how to make the product even better as time goes on. And as responsive as they've been during the KS, I imagine that the info will get put to good use.
I believe you just pledge the $12 and don't assign it to anything- once the KS is over, they said they would put out a survey to see how people wanted to sort those funds (the terrain being the main add-on). I have a main pledge plus the extra $12 unassigned (I.e. $102 total), and I believe it works the same with just the $12 pledge.
Eilif wrote: So it looks like we're heading for a 70k finish. Respectable, but I do wonder if it's enough to even cover the costs of getting the miniatures and game supplies into production and the costs for the miniatures that have already been produced. Near as I can figure there's at least 8 different kinds plastic sprues that have to be produced and when it comes to hard plastic, 70k doesn't go a far as many folks would like.
Not trying to be a downer, I hope the game and it's creators do well, just wondering out loud about this.
I believe they have said that the Kickstarter will help them with determining how fast they should proceed beyond the initial project, not whether or not they will go to production at all.
angelofvengeance wrote: Have they said you can have more than 1 terrain sprue? Or is there not enough for that?
Yup you can add as many as you want by just adding $12 to your pledge for each one. If you dont want anything except the terrain, you need to pick the '$1' pledge level so that we can contact your afterwards though.
Sorry for the lack of presence in this thread today and the pile of unanswered questions - a lot of last minute chasing all over the place to do!
angelofvengeance wrote: Have they said you can have more than 1 terrain sprue? Or is there not enough for that?
Yup you can add as many as you want by just adding $12 to your pledge for each one. If you dont want anything except the terrain, you need to pick the '$1' pledge level so that we can contact your afterwards though.
Sorry for the lack of presence in this thread today and the pile of unanswered questions - a lot of last minute chasing all over the place to do!
Sinful Hero wrote: Is anyone else in that odd position of where you really like the idea of the game, you want to support the game, but nothing about the miniatures really inspires you?
I just don't know- I really like dakka, and I like helping out dakka, but I'm just not a fan of the game. I don't really know how to express what I don't like about it.
Subscribe for the rules alone. You don't have to buy the figures.
It's a little more complicated for me than that. None of the current models really pull me in, and the next faction is at least 1-2 years off correct? I mean, why would I buy the rules for a game that I'm not sure I'd ever play?
The models don't look bad, but I just can't build an attachment to them. Or at least enough to commit to a pledge.
I feel like I should like this game more than I do. It's a "dakka game", HIPS, science fiction, robots, aliens, guns, long-term support, fleshed-out universe, and all that good stuff I like, but I just can't put a finger on what doesn't engage me.
Thanks for all the replies guys, I appreciate it.
Hm. Care to elaborate? Not evena single model appeals to you? For instance, I hate the Corporation footsloggers except for the single dude with the half visor, as that reminds me of a certain character from the original FMA. They're not worth owning in my book. I like the drones but, not enough to want them. The hunter? It's my favorite model so far besides the larger Karists that made me back. The angel? I like the nostalgic feel it gives off but, I will probably trade most mine. Scarecrows are freaking sweet and I hope to see the drone handler soon, his concept is pretty ace.
Moving on to the Karists as a whole, I love all of them. I don't really like the smaller troops but, the bigger ones with the larger shoulder-pads just hit all the right places for me. The minnows... I don't know really, same if not worst than the drones. I would love to play against them or see them in person but, not enough to display or field myself.
That being said, if you want to support it you could go in for a pledge, and trade out the dudes you don't like. I feel like by doing that I got my monies worth and got to support Dakka's game. I would play the game but, no one in my area is even interested.
However, as I said earlier it is a good way for me to christen the new display cabinet.
Don't mind to elaborate at all.
All the human Epirian's anatomy looks off to me(as I'm aware has been beaten to death in another thread), the scarecrows look exactly like they should as they are described but I don't think I understand the point of them, the drones look okay but just not how I would expect one to look if that makes sense, and the hunters look awesome from the waist up but their legs(an especially their feet) throw me off. For the faction as a whole- human with robot support- I like the idea of but the aesthetics don't satisfy me.
The Karist infantry looks pretty cool actually, specifically the heavies. The angels completely throw me off, I'm just not a fan at all of their design(black blob monsters) or the fluff that integrates them in to the faction(weaponized maelstrom). It's just something I don't like, and I believe they're fairly integral to their faction's identity correct? It just turns me off from the faction.
I really want to like this game, but it's like it dances around all my buttons that get me to pull the trigger. Not to mention none of my friends are interested in the game(and we have discussed it a bit), but it just doesn't appeal to them either. I think if I had someone else local around who was really interested I could ignore what I don't like about it. It just being me alone in my area makes it a hard pill to swallow, especially if I have to convince others to try it for a game.
Click on the $1 pledge level, and make your pledge total $12. If you just pledge $12 without choosing a pledge level, your email will not be sent to SAS, and they will have no way to get you the sprue.
Click on the $1 pledge level, and make your pledge total $12. If you just pledge $12 without choosing a pledge level, your email will not be sent to SAS, and they will have no way to get you the sprue.
Cheers Bob, already done that though I'm in for $48 to get some of that sweet terrain gubbinz
RiTides wrote: Wow, nicely done Blacksails! You tipped it over with less than 3 minutes to go what a nailbiter! Ended at $70,105 with 813 backers
I had been humming and hawing about it for a while. I'm not much of a fan of the Karists to be honest, but the Epirian robots are cool, and the contractors are cool enough I suppose. Plus, if I'm in for the rules, might as well get all the bits and bobs I'll need to run games, and the dice/terrain was just the icing on top. At least now I'll have two forces to play test with.
Amazing! Thank you to all our backers, commenters, readers, supporters and contributors, on the kickstarter, Dakka and everywhere else. I hope you enjoy the free novel (Stephen and I put a lot of time into writing it), as well as the box set in December!
By the way, is the funding curve for this project pretty typical of other games on KS? Big funding push in the first few days, lull in the middle, and final push at the end?
*Edit* More questions for SAS;
1) Is there a recommended order for reading the novels, or just go hog wild?
2) Is there a level of canon for the universe? Some sort of committee to ensure consistency?
3) Because I backed, do I have permission to spam Yak and/or Lego's inbox here?
Blacksails wrote: By the way, is the funding curve for this project pretty typical of other games on KS? Big funding push in the first few days, lull in the middle, and final push at the end?
Pretty much yes, although the exact shape of that curve varies from project to project, depending on stretch goals and the nature of the project itself.
Yes, it's very typical Blacksails, although with some campaigns the number of "freebies" or Kickstarter exclusive sculpts makes the end even sharper as people scramble in not to miss out. Everything here will be available later, so backers are just the first to get it, at a good price... but I personally prefer that model since it hopefully will make the retail game more viable, as I'd like to have some folks to play this against
1) Is there a recommended order for reading the novels, or just go hog wild?
2) Is there a level of canon for the universe? Some sort of committee to ensure consistency?
3) Because I backed, do I have permission to spam Yak and/or Lego's inbox here?
1 - I think Faith is first, but hopefully one of the authors will confirm that!
2 - There is definitely a team at Spiral Arm Studios, I think there are 6 core people who determine canon.
3 - I would say this is a definite yes (I certainly have!)
Blacksails wrote: By the way, is the funding curve for this project pretty typical of other games on KS? Big funding push in the first few days, lull in the middle, and final push at the end?
It is and it isn't: Now that the thing is closed up I'll be doing a post mortem on the campaign that goes into how this has followed/diverged from similar campaigns.
Well I would certainly love that . We've gotten great support from Dakka but would love to hit a few more stretch goals in the final push!
I won't spoil anything here, but sufficient to say you're a little bit closer now. I would love for some Firestorm dice, so there's my motivation.
1 - I think Faith is first, but hopefully one of the authors will confirm that!
2 - There is definitely a team at Spiral Arm Studios, I think there are 6 core people who determine canon.
3 - I would say this is a definite yes (I certainly have!)
Awesome, sounds great on all fronts. I'll get to reading.
Blacksails wrote: By the way, is the funding curve for this project pretty typical of other games on KS? Big funding push in the first few days, lull in the middle, and final push at the end?
It is and it isn't: Now that the thing is closed up I'll be doing a post mortem on the campaign that goes into how this has followed/diverged from similar campaigns.
I'm glad there was such a large uptick at the end. Not what I'd expected before the project went live, but a darn sight better than I feared a week ago. Hopefully this positive end note will carry on to the retail release.
I wish Some of the other project creators who benefitted so much from Dakka's audience had helped promote this a little more.
Jah-Joshua, I'm much more interested in what you could do painting up an adult angel.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm glad there was such a large uptick at the end. Not what I'd expected before the project went live, but a darn sight better than I feared a week ago. Hopefully this positive end note will carry on to the retail release..
I quite firmly believe that it will do much better at retail, just because of the nature of this sort of game and its potential audience. Being able to hold models in hand and actually play demo games will convert far more people than just seeing stuff on the computer.
Stormwall wrote: Question. Do Angels breathe? I just want some clarity on the issue. Since the whole space thing from them, I assume they would be fine underwater too...
They do not need air, so they might work underwater, but I'm not sure how well they would do in higher pressure environments?
Ah, we're not talking too deep. At the edge of coastline, or a shallow lake bottom. (I want to GS one to be aquatic.)
Someday I hope the answer will turn up!
Also, cudos. I am surprised by the November estimation. Good luck SAS, can't wait to see what's next.
I was interested enough to get the rules and showing some support. I'm planning on using my Chaos Marines as Karists, and asking a mate of mine to use his Imperial Guard as Epirans.
. Stay tuned next week!!
. On that note, I am pledged for two sets and have worked out a trade for one of my Karist halves, but not the other - if someone is interested in swapping their Epirians for my Karists, please 
. I saw some interesting points brought up by others and saw them shot down by others who think they are earning Dakkadakka points by defending every decision made by 
some are always going to scream that, and I'm not suggesting oppression on 
)
what a nailbiter! Ended at $70,105 with 813 backers 
