It means that, apparently, in one variation of the word in one country that speaks Spanish, definitely not Spain, google translate does not register it and for good or evil the top translations in my google search says it means paragraphing obviously "hey black guy".

Ultimately whatever swear word is been used it will offend someone, somewhere, somehow and it will be the ultimate evil ever committed in the offended persons mind, in the non sterilised real world this is really a non issue.

It may be a Mediterranean thing but I really cannot see anything wrong or shocking with an insult been used, probably a common one so it can be recognisable to the wider audience.

And since It has been referenced, I am not sure for whom it speaks the most for the one that is not offended and does not consider it an issue or for the one who chooses to be offended for the behalf of somebody else.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Let me get this straight. People are having a problem with the fact that an offensive over the top character called Senor Massacre uses offensive over the top slang in a language that they don't speak from a country the game isn't sold in, with their entire understanding of it is coming from Urban Dictionary? I feel like there are at least three or four things in that sentence that would make a reasonable person stop and reexamine the need they feel to be offended.

People are having a problem with the fact that a company with a love of talking about how much they understand/study history and pop culture trying to sneak in things like this(see above regarding Coolies and how the USARF Desperado units had Confederate flags painted on their bikes for some stupid reason) and relying on people like PsychoticStorm(who, by the way, is a moderator on the official forums and has come down on me for dropping f-bombs in the same thread that other people are swearing their heads off) to shield them from the backlash by complaining about "political correctness".

This is a rule in a game. It didn't need to be written the way it was, and CB knows better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 .Mikes. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

If you don't see it as an issue that says more about you than you probably want to admit

Veiled insults are neither big nor clever. Let's keep them out, eh?

I'm sorry that Sean isn't trying to be politically correct and spare your feelings from veiled insults?

It's an issue, maybe not a giant issue, but still an issue.

And to be frank, unless you're an idiot or trying too hard to be an edgy game designer, you run a quick internet search on all terms you use to make sure they're not something horrible. Look how quickly and easily this was discovered.

Not to mention, it's the far future, you can literally come up with any name and random future slang and not make it an issue.

I think we will have to agree and disagree on the subject.

@Kanluwen, I am assuming you understand the difference between directly insulting an actual person or entity (for example CB in their own forum) and a vague swearword directed at nobody.

And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think we will have to agree and disagree on the subject.

@Kanluwen, I am assuming you understand the difference between directly insulting an actual person or entity (for example CB in their own forum) and a vague swearword directed at nobody.

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?
Coolies, as well, is a term they specifically chose for a PanOceanian unit. It's a term with negative connotations in regions that PanOceania is said to include--such as South Africa and India.

But hey, it's not like Google exists right?

The discussion can certainly continue - but it has to continue within the bounds of the rules of this site.

Especially RULE #1.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

People don't think swear words in other languages are nearly as vulgar or offensive. it's no worse than South Park using "chinpokomon" or Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure having Napoleon scream "merde merde merde" while bowling. In fact, I probably won't even get in trouble for bypassing the word censor for saying merde instead of gak. That's because foreign words don't mean the same things to other cultures. If they did, 4Kids wouldn't keep changing all the takoyaki in anime into donuts.

It's okay. It really is. We don't need to sanitize works of fiction. Senor Massacre is the jerk, intentionally so, not Corvus Belli for putting the words in his mouth. It's like if I were to write a book about a serial killer - would you assume that was my tacit approval of murder? It's worth making a distinction between reality and fantasy.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?

Have you never seen the Dukes of Hazzard? As someone from the deep south who sees the Confederate flag almost every day, people absolutely do use it to mean "Southern Pride". It's really only been in the past 10 years that people have become really sensitive toward it and tried to redefine how they think people should view it. Maybe Bostria just didn't get the memo?

But if you want to get into a discussion about moral absolutism and the way the current generation feels a compulsive need to turn every minor disagreement into a self-righteous battle of good versus evil, that may be better suited in a different thread. Maybe we can fit it into the next boob armor thread?

I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

With this expansion announcement, has there been any word that Aristeia! can be for 3 or more players as well?

Druze Preview? Where's my Druze Preview. Okay, I'll take a Szalamandra preview. C'mon CB...

Ah, just to correct the above about the Confederate battle flag. It was "problematic" for a fair number of people well before the current uproar. I can recall friends in college discussing it. This would be 30 years ago.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

You're...not wrong!

That *is* a good idea!

It is still quite the baffling choice by CB though - I mean, they had to know that everyone is going to look up what Mr. Not-Deadpool is saying, right?

Couldn't they have gone with "Hey Idiot!" instead?

Given the context of the rule, its pretty hard to believe they didn't know exactly what it meant when they printed it. Likely more an issue of insensitivity than something truly malicious, but still not cool.

On a different complaint about that, that Sr. Massacre sculpt is really not my thing. I basically play Corregidor for the guy and that sculpt is a pretty solid, meh from me. Might be better witha bit of rotation though.

It is a board game piece. Argh. Please stop expecting metal miniature quality from board game pieces, folks.

"Hey Idiota!" Not much of a taunt really. They could have gone with "Hey, Tonto!" ( Fool) but I'm sure that might have inflamed a certain sort too. Hey... Necio, Bobo, Bufon... No shortage of insults in Spanish. ¡Oye, Pendejo! would have done nicely.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The rule is literally called "Hey pirobo". You might pretend that people are just going to be saying "And now I play 'Hey pirobo'!" but you forget that as soon as some identify it as an insult, it will be used to try to mess with people.

People don't think swear words in other languages are nearly as vulgar or offensive. it's no worse than South Park using "chinpokomon" or Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure having Napoleon scream "merde merde merde" while bowling. In fact, I probably won't even get in trouble for bypassing the word censor for saying merde instead of gak. That's because foreign words don't mean the same things to other cultures. If they did, 4Kids wouldn't keep changing all the takoyaki in anime into donuts.

It's okay. It really is. We don't need to sanitize works of fiction. Senor Massacre is the jerk, intentionally so, not Corvus Belli for putting the words in his mouth. It's like if I were to write a book about a serial killer - would you assume that was my tacit approval of murder? It's worth making a distinction between reality and fantasy.

And there's the rub. You writing a book about a serial killer isn't the same thing as you having a history of being suspected of being a serial killer or harassing the victims of a serial killer.

Corvus Belli has, repeatedly at this point, shown that they either have a sensitivity or an empathy problem. See: Coolies and their general portrayal of women in model format/fluff.

That's a pile of bunk with regards to the Confederate flag. Bostria and the like argued that it was a "Southern Pride" thing, and if you want to pretend for even a second that they didn't know the history behind it?

Have you never seen the Dukes of Hazzard? As someone from the deep south who sees the Confederate flag almost every day, people absolutely do use it to mean "Southern Pride". It's really only been in the past 10 years that people have become really sensitive toward it and tried to redefine how they think people should view it. Maybe Bostria just didn't get the memo?

I've lived in the south for all of my life. I'm well aware of how people love to argue about the Confederate flag being "Southern Pride" while in the same breath talking about how Latino immigrants need to speak English only or Muslim immigrants need to stop wearing hijabs or Sikhs need to lose their turbans or how my generation shouldn't be handed participation trophies for doing nothing while complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments.

I'm also well aware of the fact that USAriadna is supposed to be predominantly Latin-American and African-American with the security contingent said to be primarily made up of these two ethnic groups, with the science contingent being predominantly Asian-Americans and Caucasians...and how Desperadoes have been called out as being non-military units that make their money scalping Antipodes and live in the southern part of USAriadna.

But if you want to get into a discussion about moral absolutism and the way the current generation feels a compulsive need to turn every minor disagreement into a self-righteous battle of good versus evil, that may be better suited in a different thread. Maybe we can fit it into the next boob armor thread?

Remind me again which generation it is that's been complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments, citing "Southern Pride" while complaining about the "current generation" getting participation medals?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Harvest wrote:
I bet that you thought that you accidently logged into the RPG.net forum, eh Alpharius?

Squabbling here does nothing. Send a PM or email to someone at Corvus Belli about it, someone. Post the reply.

I can tell you right now that any kind of reply/post from CB would try to play up the fact that they don't primarily speak English. That's what I was told with regards to the coolies thing back when it dropped...which is kind of silly because it's not really an "English or not English" thing. It's a cultural thing.

With this expansion announcement, has there been any word that Aristeia! can be for 3 or more players as well?

Druze Preview? Where's my Druze Preview. Okay, I'll take a Szalamandra preview. C'mon CB...

Expect to see the previews start around the middle of the month. Preorders should be towards the end of the month assuming things go okay.

Ah, just to correct the above about the Confederate battle flag. It was "problematic" for a fair number of people well before the current uproar. I can recall friends in college discussing it. This would be 30 years ago.

Yeah, it took a certain movement reasserting itself for there to be a more active drive with regards to "sensitivity" about the Confederate flag and monuments.

 Red Harvest wrote:
It is a board game piece. Argh. Please stop expecting metal miniature quality from board game pieces, folks.

"Hey Idiota!" Not much of a taunt really. They could have gone with "Hey, Tonto!" ( Fool) but I'm sure that might have inflamed a certain sort too. Hey... Necio, Bobo, Bufon... No shortage of insults in Spanish. ¡Oye, Pendejo! would have done nicely.

Probably "Conchatumare" could have been even better

There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

 Kanluwen wrote:
how the USARF Desperado units had Confederate flags painted on their bikes

Wait... WHAT? That shouldn't be acceptable.

I dislike profanity in all forms. As it was stated it's not humorous (unless you're on a rather primitive level) or creative.

I think the thing that personally bothers me the most is what I see as an improper separation of fluff and crunch. I don't care if the character says it as part of the background, my problem is that this is the actual name of the ability. It's something players are going to be saying. Out loud. Repeatedly. In public places. Among strangers. And CB is making them (probably unwittingly) speak a major-league profanity.

 DarkBlack wrote:
There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

Swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And there's the rub. You writing a book about a serial killer isn't the same thing as you having a history of being suspected of being a serial killer or harassing the victims of a serial killer.

Corvus Belli has, repeatedly at this point, shown that they either have a sensitivity or an empathy problem. See: Coolies and their general portrayal of women in model format/fluff.

So, rather than simply being a work of fiction that was created to invoke a particular tone in line with a specific character they created within a specific science fiction universe they created, this is indicative of a general trend by Corvus Belli of their lack of sensitivity seeping unintentionally into their fictional work? Aren't you just assuming the worst about CB and inventing intent because it fits your particular biases and beliefs?

I've lived in the south for all of my life. I'm well aware of how people love to argue about the Confederate flag being "Southern Pride" while in the same breath talking about how Latino immigrants need to speak English only or Muslim immigrants need to stop wearing hijabs or Sikhs need to lose their turbans or how my generation shouldn't be handed participation trophies for doing nothing while complaining about the removal of Confederate monuments.

There's just no way to dress up what you just wrote as anything but unfounded bias seething with arrogance and contempt. Your unironic adherence to harmful stereotypes is abhorrent, abusive, and dangerous, in every way that racism is. Bigotry doesn't just involve the color of your skin. Not everybody who sees the rebel flag as a symbol of southern pride is a raging racist, and the fact that you have no problem conflating the two together is probably why people think you don't deserve a trophy for your participation.

But this thread isn't about the Confederate flag or participation medals. At the end of the day, getting offended is a choice. I choose to give Corvus Belli the benefit of the doubt. For all the good works they've created that I've enjoyed greatly, they've earned at least that much. I'm not sure what good could come from believing otherwise. Getting upset at the small stuff just ends up making your world that much smaller, and that much meaner, and if you don't want to end up small and mean yourself, you've got to let go of the immaterial slights.

Yeah, it took a certain movement reasserting itself for there to be a more active drive with regards to "sensitivity" about the Confederate flag and monuments.

That's a bunch of bs. People today act like there are white supremacists around every corner. They aren't. The KKK only has about 5,000 members nationwide and they've been holding their stupid rallies for decades. It's just that nobody paid attention to them until recently. You know why? Of course you do. It's because Trump won the presidency, and Trump is the all time record holder for Godwin's Law. Trump is like Hitler, which means the people who voted for him must be white supremacists, right? They don't just disagree with us. They are actual evil people. They are Nazis. They should be punched.

Even the people trying to take down the Confederate monuments don't really care about the monuments. In their warped minds, they are sticking one to the Southern Nazis, making it hurt right in their racism. It's not about protecting people. It's about punishing people. Nothing is ever nuanced. It's good vs evil, right vs wrong - moral absolutism in its most naked form. And since the people who disagree with us are evil, we can take whatever extreme measures are necessary in order to stop them, shut them up, or punish them for their wicked ways.

Even this word used by Corvus Belli - it's about what is good and right, not about whether anyone is actually harmed by the usage of that word. CB didn't invent the word and I'm sure lots of worse things have been said by a majority of players during their games - like suggesting that all southerners are racist. You don't have to use a no-no word to be "gross".

Maybe we should take a solemn oath, right here and now, not to prematurely jump the gun and get upset over what could conceivably happen before any harm has actually been committed? We don't have to child proof a world designed for adults. Let's remember the concept of dignity and apply is equally to others as we do ourselves. And for that matter, let's remember the definition of "subjective".

I just solved the problem:
Pirobo means something different (maybe "chicken") in the fictional universe of infinity.
The thing is, the way something sounds in some other language might be offensive, while it isn't in the other. Same goes for meanings of the same words. Ghazzkul Thraka in Russian reads like Ghazzkul sh*tter. If one tries hard enough, he can tie any word to something bad.

Ps:#chicken_shaming
Pss: I just remembered that in prisons of east Europe chicken(cock to be precise) means something bad. See, proves my point.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
I just solved the problem:
Pirobo means something different (maybe "chicken") in the fictional universe of infinity.
The thing is, the way something sounds in some other language might be offensive, while it isn't in the other. Same goes for meanings of the same words. Ghazzkul Thraka in Russian reads like Ghazzkul sh*tter. If one tries hard enough, he can tie any word to something bad.

Ps:#chicken_shaming
Pss: I just remembered that in prisons of east Europe chicken(cock to be precise) means something bad. See, proves my point.

Cock can be a bad word in English, but context is important. Also, again, swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

I guess I don't understand. Why is it that everyone has to be offended by everything? Seriously?

Color me unsurprised. In other cultures "coolie" simply means unskilled labor. In the US, like literally everything else, it's an insult.

I get it. Some people will be offended. But some people are just offended by everything. It's insane.

 JBSchroeds wrote:
I think the thing that personally bothers me the most is what I see as an improper separation of fluff and crunch. I don't care if the character says it as part of the background, my problem is that this is the actual name of the ability. It's something players are going to be saying. Out loud. Repeatedly. In public places. Among strangers. And CB is making them (probably unwittingly) speak a major-league profanity.

Pretty much this. If they just named it 'Intimidate', and if they needed to get the childishness out of their system, just had him say it in a fluff piece, it wouldn't have been so bad. Still pretty unacceptable, but not as bad. The fact it's front and center as the name of a skill, which means it'll be repeated very regularly during a game, is a problem in itself.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:I just solved the problem:
Pirobo means something different (maybe "chicken") in the fictional universe of infinity.
The thing is, the way something sounds in some other language might be offensive, while it isn't in the other. Same goes for meanings of the same words. Ghazzkul Thraka in Russian reads like Ghazzkul sh*tter. If one tries hard enough, he can tie any word to something bad.

Bad logic. First, your solution. I think 'Pan' means female genatalia in the Infinity universe, since it's a fictional setting. Suddenly I find Pan Oceanias faction name to be very offensive. And unfortunately, there's no precedent for this in the setting. As notably pointed out, there's curse words in English in TAGline. Current insults and curses are apparently still used.

Second, that wouldn't be too bad, just 'mixing up a meaning', if it wasn't intentionally framed as an insult. The point of the ability is to intimidate. It's clear what the word is meant to mean.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

njtrader wrote:
I guess I don't understand. Why is it that everyone has to be offended by everything? Seriously?

Color me unsurprised. In other cultures "coolie" simply means unskilled labor. In the US, like literally everything else, it's an insult.

I get it. Some people will be offended. But some people are just offended by everything. It's insane.

So you've got no problem using the English translation in a room with other people, probably also strangers? Just casually using the word? How about if someone in the room is also of Columbian descent?

It's not about being offended. it's about the logic of using it so casually in a board game, in a manner in which you're going to be saying it quite often, around strangers who themselves might find it offensive.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

Swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

I think the argument being made is that it has a different meaning in Spain than Columbia, plenty of words in English carry different weight depending on locale.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

Well I certainly know the people in America don't understand what all the fuss is in Europe over the swastika. They are figuratively the same thing. Has CB put swastikas on any of their minis or art of late.

CB trying to sneak some edgey stuff into a mass market game... Wow. Good luck with that.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
And since you mentioned Coolies you might remember that in Spain (or most non English Europe) it never had the gravity US people gave it, might be the same with the confederate warflag, most of us not living in the US never understood what was the fuss all about.

Well I certainly know the people in America don't understand what all the fuss is in Europe over the swastika. They are figuratively the same thing. Has CB put swastikas on any of their minis or art of late.

CB trying to sneak some edgey stuff into a mass market game... Wow. Good luck with that.

I'm really tired so I could be misunderstanding... is PS giving ignorance as an excuse to put confederate flag as an acceptable icon?

The Original Concept Art of McCree from Overwatch had a Confederate Flag on it. At that point he was a racist and xenophobic guy so it maked sense for him.

I don't see the problem with putting Confederate Flags or even Swastikas as long as it is in one of three forms:
-Using them as a parody of the ideology they represent.
-For historical accuracy
-To represents with all of his shadows what those symbols represent.

I can see real historical symbols used in a fantasy/scy-fi setting based in Earth, and not too far into the future.
Is people offended by Command and Conquer Red Alert? With their sovietic symbols, and Imperial Japan symbols (That were in many ways even worse than the nazis)?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

Swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

Not quite; insulting gay people for being gay is not the same as swearing. Using an offensive/shocking word to emphasise a point (that point often being an insult) is what swearing is; for example: fecal matter rarely has anything to do with a situation where gak is said.

The point is that CB characters are adults and act like adults, they're even unpleasant donkey-caves sometimes. The notion that fictional characters should be paragons of political correctness and tolerance (who represent perfectly the views of their creators), seems to defeat the notion of believable characters and villains/anti-heroes in general.
CB could have had their characters just have clean tongues, but they did not, so: seems like something that character would say.

 DarkBlack wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
There were English swearwords in Tag line, so it's not like it's new.
It works with the flavour CB was going for, if that's a good flavour to be going for is a different matter.

Swearing is different to homophobic slurs.

Not quite; insulting gay people for being gay is not the same as swearing. Using an offensive/shocking word to emphasise a point (that point often being an insult) is what swearing is; for example: fecal matter rarely has anything to do with a situation where gak is said.

The point is that CB characters are adults and act like adults, they're even unpleasant donkey-caves sometimes. The notion that fictional characters should be paragons of political correctness and tolerance (who represent perfectly the views of their creators), seems to defeat the notion of believable characters and villains/anti-heroes in general.
CB could have had their characters just have clean tongues, but they did not, so: seems like something that character would say.

As people have pointed out though, it’s not so much that the character would say it. It’s that it’s the name of a rule, which means people playing the game will be saying it. I wouldn’t mind so much if it was in his fluff or whatever, and generally agree characters shouldn’t necessarily be politically correct, because lots of people aren’t. But that’s not the issue here.

Lets be honest. If it was not the name of the rule, just a fluffy bit of him, people will still complaint that he said it.

 Galas wrote:
Lets be honest. If it was not the name of the rule, just a fluffy bit of him, people will still complaint that he said it.

Some yeah, I think less though. Though I think it would be more fitting in Infinity than Aristeia if it had to be anywhere. Aristeia seems pretty child friendly with the bright colours and stuff while Infinity is more adult, as people have said there’s already instances of swearing in the fluff.

 -Loki- wrote:

It's not about being offended. it's about the logic of using it so casually in a board game, in a manner in which you're going to be saying it quite often, around strangers who themselves might find it offensive.

Why not wait until someone has a legitimate grievance, rather than prematurely getting offended on their behalf before any issue actually arises?

I mean, do you play Infinity around a lot of Colombians? If you did, do they also think it is offensive? I mean, I think it is hilarious when Japanese people curse in English. Moreover, do they find it so offensive that they refuse to play the game rather than just shrugging it off or deciding with other players to use a different word before they play? Are they so offended that they demand the game itself be changed to suit their situation? It seems to me like you have a distant, distant, DISTANT outside chance of meeting all those criteria.

And what lengths do Corvus Belli need to go to in order to pander to this almost certainly nonexistent possibility?

 Galas wrote:
The Original Concept Art of McCree from Overwatch had a Confederate Flag on it. At that point he was a racist and xenophobic guy so it maked sense for him.

I don't see the problem with putting Confederate Flags or even Swastikas as long as it is in one of three forms:
-Using them as a parody of the ideology they represent.
-For historical accuracy
-To represents with all of his shadows what those symbols represent.

I can see real historical symbols used in a fantasy/scy-fi setting based in Earth, and not too far into the future.
Is people offended by Command and Conquer Red Alert? With their sovietic symbols, and Imperial Japan symbols (That were in many ways even worse than the nazis)?

Spoiler:

Like this:

Well I`m offended now by the "With their sovietic symbols (That were in many ways even worse than the nazis)?" remark. I thought I was in youtube comments there for a second. There is a difference between germany and nazis, and there is a different between USSR and NKVD/KGB.

But hey, lets get on topic of Infinity and Aresteia. Can`t imagine there is much to add about it.. And we`re tipping to the off-topic area.

 ImAGeek wrote:

The thing is, the way something sounds in some other language might be offensive, while it isn't in the other. Same goes for meanings of the same words. Ghazzkul Thraka in Russian reads like Ghazzkul sh*tter. If one tries hard enough, he can tie any word to something bad.

Pss: I just remembered that in prisons of east Europe chicken(cock to be precise) means something bad. See, proves my point.

That would be the regional context thing again. Quick topical example, where I come from in Yorkshire 'cock' is synonymous with 'mate' (as in friend, before anyone goes all nudge nudge, wink wink).

Anyway, I seriously can't believe people are still insisting on getting hot and bothered about this.

OFF TOPIC POSTS DELETED.

RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

RULE #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

Pretty easy, right?

Ok lets clarify a few things.

First of all ignorance is a valid excuse, wherever you live the vast majority of humans do not live there and they have different traditions beliefs and ideas than you, you will never know everything and practically anything you do might be offensive to somebody, somewhere. There is a very good reason the knowledge we have for the other countries and their customs is superficial, if you do not live somewhere you cannot know how they work.

Coming from the country with one of the two most misrepresented ancient religions and mythology (the other been the Norse Mythology) should I be offended with virtually every depiction and iteration the modern world has in misrepresenting my culture? that is ridiculous, I am honoured people get inspired by such an ancient folklore and adapt it to their viewpoint to make something cool of their own.

This is what culture is share, merge and adopt.

coming back to my comment about the confederate (war)flag, please understand most of us are not from the US and are not versed in your micro-politics, the confederate warflag (I learned it was the warflag a couple of years ago) if for most of us a well known symbol from the US mostly from the US media we consumed in our early life, Dukes of Hazard among others I can understand given the research and the shouts that for you it is something else but for the rest of the world, it is another symbol with another life and another meaning.

Frankly for myself I was surprised and shocked, I have several customers who are Americans and some did had the flag as a pin in their cloths for as long as I knew them as customers, I read a few lines in the local news about that flag thing and next day none of them ever wore it again, clearly for the Americans it is another symbol and has a different meaning than what it is for the rest of the world.

Yes, I can see CB putting the flag on the bikes and thing yes, this is cool, only to find themselves under heavy critique without understanding why and in need of a course in recent USA internal politics.

Likewise for many things, coolies is offensive in the US (but mostly in South Africa?), I personally only knew it from the term "coolie hat" reading wikipedia it is an inoffensive term in most of the countries that would comprise PanOceania and I can see why one would use it to describe the front-line maintenance corps of PanOceania.

Someone on this thread said "Europe has a problem with Swastika" well not really, Germany has an issue and most of Europe thinks it is a rather silly one, it is an example of how superficial and generic we think of each other cultures because we cannot know the details.

Finally, as it has been pointed out, the word that sparked this, has a meaning on one variation of it in one country that speaks Spanish in this world (and that country is not Spain), it means several other different things in Spanish in different countries, why exactly should CB know what it means in that country? and why should we care what it means in one country when it does not mean the same in all countries?

Of course, PsychoticStorm, the one part where your 'ignorance is a defence' argument falls flat is that Corvus Belli take a lot of time to do research. They take racial groups, research their history and repurpose their cultural background for Infinity, using their background as a way to describe how they are doing in Infinity now.

The fact that simply typing pirobo into google gives you a box-out telling you the Columbian meaning, and then they have that as the insult used by the character who, as part of their background, has spent a good while fighting in central America, shows that it could well be intentional.

'Recent' US politics?

The American Civil War was a fair few years ago, and the Confederate Flag was and remains a...polarizing symbol, to say the least.

And none of that is hard to find out.

This misstep might just be that - a misstep, but as CB continues to grow and expand, they really need to be better at avoiding these easily avoidable gaffes.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

Finally, as it has been pointed out, the word that sparked this, has a meaning on one variation of it in one country that speaks Spanish in this world (and that country is not Spain), it means several other different things in Spanish in different countries, why exactly should CB know what it means in that country? and why should we care what it means in one country when it does not mean the same in all countries?

I'd just like to point out there are actually more Spanish speakers in Columbia than there are in Spain. It ranks only behind Mexico in population among the Spanish speaking world. So this specific definition exists for a non-insignificant portion of native speakers.

 Alpharius wrote:
'Recent' US politics?

When the history of your country reaches back millennia, 150 years is recent

Aren't you just assuming the worst about CB and inventing intent because it fits your particular biases and beliefs?

It's not about protecting people. It's about punishing people.

So we can't assume CB's intent but we can assume the intent of everyone who isn't a racist?

I think we can all agree (ha!) that CB just stepped in it here, and while there's an easy(ish) fix, who knows if they'll take it?

Recent as, for most of the world up until the last couple of years the flag was a symbol associated with US and a promoted as one since movies, films and (country) bands from the US used it without any massive negative associations to the symbol.

As for the word, I am still not convinced it is an issue, do we have any actual Columbian here to at least properly convey how they use the word and how severe it really is at least in their language, because any translation I can find, seems to be obscure word anyway, would not raise an eyebrow here, of course Mediterranean cultures are known for their wealth in swearwords and the excessive integration on the everyday language so, it might not been an issue for us anyway.

 Alpharius wrote:
'Recent' US politics?

The American Civil War was a fair few years ago, and the Confederate Flag was and remains a...polarizing symbol, to say the least.

Yes, recent. There has been a deliberate attempt in the past decade to repaint the symbols of the Civil War in a new, negative light. It's not just the flag and the monuments, but the festivals, roads, schools, buildings, landmarks, and everything else too. For instance, here is a Jun 2017 article about renaming Robert E. Lee high school in Tampa. If it was always offensive, and Lee was always seen as a traitor, then why has it taken until 2017 to change its name? Why was it named after him in the first place? The answer is because, obviously, it was not a controversial name until recently.

The idea that the Civil War was primarily about racism is a result of the Civil Rights movement during the 60s, and the idea that the South was a bunch of dirty traitors is a relatively new way of looking at the conflict that is based on growing up being taught that the Civil War was about racism. Before the 60s, the Civil War was seen as a war for states rights - something which people call you racist for these days. Here's a video of FDR dedicating a Civil War monument to the Blue AND the Gray. Growing up in the South, it was not uncommon for people to have framed portraits of Robert E Lee above their mantle. The idea that he was a traitor and a scumbag is a new invention by a generation of people raised on a cartoon version of the Civil War, who strongly, strongly believe in moral absolutism. The idea that anything can be a shade of gray or even just more complicated than right vs wrong seems to offend them to the very core - hence their overwhelming need to destroy anything from the past which confuses them. Free speech is one such confusing issue that right now, the majority of college students stand steadfastly against (!).

. If it was always offensive, and Lee was always seen as a traitor, then why has it taken until 2017 to change its name? Why was it named after him in the first place? The answer is because, obviously, it was not a controversial name until recently.

I'd suggest you actually look at the history of these monuments, particularly as they weren't built immediately after the war but erected coinciding with Jim Crow laws and served as a rallying point for the sort of attitudes that go along with that. It was never about history but an easy facade for vile people to hide behind.

And asking why it took until now is pretty disingenuous, why has it taken until now for any other social issue? It's taken time for xenophobes to die out and more rational voices to come to the forefront.

Has ALEPH rebuilt Robert E Lee as a playable model for USARiadna?

Wow, that's some great work on CB's part...

With a whole lexicon of swears and insults without a ton of baggage attached, they chose that.

I mean, I don't really expect much from them considering how they've been in the past, but this just shows how tone deaf they really are.

Just add it to the litany of bone-headed things they've done and pray that one day they will grow some kind of self-introspection and realize that they can really be -hats.

But more likely, they'll cocoon themselves in their echo chamber and pretend like the world is to blame instead of taking a look at themselves and their own actions. It's been their MO before and I can't see them changing at this stage.

 ScarletRose wrote:

I'd suggest you actually look at the history of these monuments, particularly as they weren't built immediately after the war but erected coinciding with Jim Crow laws and served as a rallying point for the sort of attitudes that go along with that. It was never about history but an easy facade for vile people to hide behind.

Let me guess. You saw that one graph on Reddit that showed that the majority of monuments were created in the 1910s or so and heard someone else mention Jim Crow laws, and the conclusions just jumped to themselves, right?

Well, as it turns out, the reason why the monuments were created 40-70 years after the war was because that's when the Civil War veterans were dying off. You think FDR was dedicating that eternal flame monument I linked to in my previous post because he was oppressing black people? He was honoring living civil war vets - who wouldn't be living that much longer. You can see them in the video. Due to the canon fire, they were all partially deaf. That's why they were holding their hands up to their ears. They were old and infirm, and the country built monuments to its veterans on both sides.

Wait. I wonder if there was some other reason people were remembering the Civil War. That large spike at 1910 and 1911... I wonder if those dates mean anything. What reasons could anybody have for creating monuments in remembrance of a war EXACTLY 50 years earlier other than Jim Crow laws?

During the 60s though, maybe those monuments could be claimed to be all about oppressing black people because the Civil Rights movement and all. Except you know what else happened in the 60s? The Civil War Centennial anniversary. That's right. 100 years after the Civil War, some people decided to remember the Civil War. Those donkey-caves!

That graph and accompanying conclusions were compiled the SPLC. Their bias in these matters should be obvious.

And asking why it took until now is pretty disingenuous, why has it taken until now for any other social issue? It's taken time for xenophobes to die out and more rational voices to come to the forefront.

So, I guess your generation is just right all the time about everything and every generation that came before you is racist? That lump of gray matter between your ears is capable of more than just regurgitating Facebook posts.

Wait. I wonder if there was some other reason people were remembering the Civil War.

As I said, it's a convenient rallying point for unsavory people. You know, like the kind who form torch wielding mobs, threaten large segments of the population and murder US citizens.

And as we're seeing here the pretext just gives a nice way to cover up the whole matter as "appreciating history".

So, I guess your generation is just right all the time about everything and every generation that came before you is racist?

I'm not one of "those youngins" or however it goes nowadays, I just see how progress works. It takes time for old ideas to die off, usually with the idea's originators.

Anyway, the whole apologism and resorting to insults thing is cute but it's off topic, we're talking about Infinity.

--

Personally I'm going to wait and see how CB acts on this, if they do at all. I've just ben painting the odd min here and there since they do make very nice stuff so it's not a pressing issue for me.

Drop this US Civil War dross thanks. Trying to debate what the statues mean, when they were made, what that has to do with anything, all of these topics have a good place to be discussed.

That place is another forum. Because US Politics has had its run here and is no longer permitted in our OT, and certainly not in our N&R threads. Further posts will be deleted and users warned.

Excellent avatar, Motyak. ( The Budgies. )

Everyone, Colombians not Columbians. C'mon.

Angel seems to be painting Wyrd miniatures ATM, so nothing newsworthy from him. I admit that I am curious to see how he paints them.
This months previews... ( reminder)
Druze box
Szalamandra
Nexus Operative
Kanren with unknown weapon?
Neema with Spitfire.

The Kanren is kneeling, so it will be supersized, like the other kneeling minis ( Rev-Healer, Hunza-cutie, etc.) But will the Druze scale well with the LE Druze hacker-- a large mini? I do hope so.

I was wondering why this topic jumped 2 pages in less than a day lol.

 Red Harvest wrote:

Everyone, Colombians not Columbians. C'mon.

Apologies, it was late at night.

Angel seems to be painting Wyrd miniatures ATM, so nothing newsworthy from him. I admit that I am curious to see how he paints them.
This months previews... ( reminder)

I think? it is for his new book?

Nah, the Other Side KS is about to released for retail I believe. At least that's what's on his FB page.

Maybe, I remember one of his earlier posts saying something about including or having Wyrd miniatures in his next book, but I have not mined on FB comments to confirm it.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Kanren with unknown weapon?

It's a Combirifle (with a more tactical looking visor add-on) and will depict this profile

KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32)

Look carefully at that Kanren render. The figure is not actually holding the rifle. It makes me wonder if the final product will have a combi or BS. You're probably correct, due to the presence of the visor.

Did Wyrd commission Angel to paint the minis? No matter, as long as it does not interfere with giving the Druze a top-notch paint job. And Sally too.

 Tristan228 wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
Kanren with unknown weapon?

It's a Combirifle (with a more tactical looking visor add-on) and will depict this profile

KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32)

Spoiler:

comparision between the old CR on a Gui Lang and the Kanren render:

I’m pretty sure they said it’s coming with MadTraps, so it’s just the combi-rifle + MadTraps profile.

New Kanren? With Mad traps? Excellent. Christmas comes early.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Maybe, I remember one of his earlier posts saying something about including or having Wyrd miniatures in his next book, but I have not mined on FB comments to confirm it.

Ooh, I missed that. Anyway, here's the FB post I saw. No mentioned of it being in a professional capacity or his next book, but they look awesome.

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FStudioGiraldez%2Fposts%2F1619744258086475&width=500" width="500" height="645" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>

Any English versions of Valkyrie’s card?

New info of things to com for infinity from Carlos on Beasts of War.
Infininty related stuff starts on ~14:13min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb-UHAhda4w

Som examples:
Vedict sectorial most likely incoming next year
Thoaa getting new sectorial (one with the Kauri sentinels in it)
New Charontide coming in January (Concept is shown)
Renders of the new Hospitalers (Also in January)

Interesting stuff!

Yay for peed radar gun knight!

I am really excited for those knights.

The Healgun doc looks so nonchalant.

They’re really ramping up the tactical debris there.

Also I’m seriously tempted to get an Onyx sectorial Army. Those alien robots are looking sweet.

 AduroT wrote:
They’re really ramping up the tactical debris there.

Also I’m seriously tempted to get an Onyx sectorial Army. Those alien robots are looking sweet.

The Charontid (and the Avatar) aren’t in Onyx. Them, the Anethematic and Skiavoros are vanilla only.

Urge to buy Onyx decreasing...

 AduroT wrote:
They’re really ramping up the tactical debris there.

.

Dammit, I didn't even see that. And they're rocks too. Well those won't stand out on people who have their Pano armies on tech bases.

Why is the Charontid getting a Plasma Carbine? I really hope they're not replacing the Plasma rifle. Thats a serious downgrade and we already have very few plasma rifle options anyway.

The knights look nice, butthat HMG pose is very similar to the Nisse, which was very similar to the Bagh Mari. Variety is nice.

Hospitaller Knights are, from Left to Right:
Generic Proxy Knight with CCW out, Boarding Shotgun Knight, HMG Knight, and Paramedic Knight.

I'm kinda stoked for the Vedic Sectorial box. They and the MRRF were the two things that really first caught my eye for Infinity, so it's great to see some love for one of them.

 jake wrote:
Why is the Charontid getting a Plasma Carbine? I really hope they're not replacing the Plasma rifle. Thats a serious downgrade and we already have very few plasma rifle options anyway.

The knights look nice, butthat HMG pose is very similar to the Nisse, which was very similar to the Bagh Mari. Variety is nice.

I’m assuming the Plasma Carbine is a typo. The design doesn’t match the existing Plasma Carbine design, and typos aren’t exactly rare on the dossiers.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jake wrote:
Why is the Charontid getting a Plasma Carbine? I really hope they're not replacing the Plasma rifle. Thats a serious downgrade and we already have very few plasma rifle options anyway.

The knights look nice, butthat HMG pose is very similar to the Nisse, which was very similar to the Bagh Mari. Variety is nice.

I’m assuming the Plasma Carbine is a typo. The design doesn’t match the existing Plasma Carbine design, and typos aren’t exactly rare on the dossiers.

It does match up if you look at the weapon directly under it. Only difference is the lack of the inverted handle/trigger assembly the Unidrons have.
The weapon to the left is unlabeled but looks like the Avatar's Multi- HMG, just a bit less fancy(which makes sense since the Charontid has a standard HMG not a Multi-HMG).

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jake wrote:
Why is the Charontid getting a Plasma Carbine? I really hope they're not replacing the Plasma rifle. Thats a serious downgrade and we already have very few plasma rifle options anyway.

The knights look nice, butthat HMG pose is very similar to the Nisse, which was very similar to the Bagh Mari. Variety is nice.

I’m assuming the Plasma Carbine is a typo. The design doesn’t match the existing Plasma Carbine design, and typos aren’t exactly rare on the dossiers.

It does match up if you look at the weapon directly under it. Only difference is the lack of the inverted handle/trigger assembly the Unidrons have.
The weapon to the left is unlabeled but looks like the Avatar's Multi- HMG, just a bit less fancy(which makes sense since the Charontid has a standard HMG not a Multi-HMG).

It doesn’t match. The barrel and magazine are different. Also the HMG is labelled on the dossier.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jake wrote:
Why is the Charontid getting a Plasma Carbine? I really hope they're not replacing the Plasma rifle. Thats a serious downgrade and we already have very few plasma rifle options anyway.

The knights look nice, butthat HMG pose is very similar to the Nisse, which was very similar to the Bagh Mari. Variety is nice.

I’m assuming the Plasma Carbine is a typo. The design doesn’t match the existing Plasma Carbine design, and typos aren’t exactly rare on the dossiers.

It does match up if you look at the weapon directly under it. Only difference is the lack of the inverted handle/trigger assembly the Unidrons have.
The weapon to the left is unlabeled but looks like the Avatar's Multi- HMG, just a bit less fancy(which makes sense since the Charontid has a standard HMG not a Multi-HMG).

It doesn’t match. The barrel and magazine are different. Also the HMG is labelled on the dossier.

HMG's label is hidden between the knife and its scabbard, forgive me for not spotting it.

Still going to say it's more of a match than you're putting forwards though. The magazine is similar enough and it looks like a second barrel shroud has been added, allowing for an enclosed compartment for the barrel. It looks simply like it is intended to be the "rifleman" variant of the Carbine, since it's lacking the joystick trigger assembly that is on the top for the Unidron to fire it two handed.

And I think it’s a lot more different than you’re putting forward, considering absolutely nothing is the same between the two...

If just the barrel was different, or just the magazine, or just the trigger, or even 2 of the 3, I’d see what you’re saying. But it’s a completely different design. It’s as different if not more so as the Unidrons Spitfire is from the Carbine.

Yeah, now that I've looked closer and it';s clearly not a Carbine. Unless they've redesigned the Carbine for the Charontid. Which I guess could be the case.

Charontid and Hospitaller box for January. Cool so far. Those tactical rocks... well, it looks like one-- the BS and Dr. versions-- can be filed almost flat, and the other simply removed to give an interesting look. Fortunately the minis have sturdy ankles, so removing the TREQs won't be particularly tricky. Pencil me in for a box. I believe they are going in the Svalarheim Sectorial.

The Vedics have been ignored for so long. It's about time CB did something. The Asuras and Devas badly need resculpts.

As do the Dakinks, can’t wait to see how they look after the excellent Garuda.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They’re really ramping up the tactical debris there.

.

Dammit, I didn't even see that. And they're rocks too. Well those won't stand out on people who have their Pano armies on tech bases.

Won't be the first time I've had to Dremel away natural tactical debris and have a foot up on something more suitable (3D printer access and sci fi crate files are useful here).

But yeah, that's overboard. I still haven't bought the Tik/Uhlan box due to the work I'd need to do to use them when I can just proxy my old Squalo as either the occasional time I use a TAG.

So do the knights only have 2 bodies with different arms and head poses. Or is it just a bad copy paste job on the sculpts.

They do look nice but if for some reason you were running the whole unit they might stand out.

SeanDrake wrote:
So do the knights only have 2 bodies with different arms and head poses. Or is it just a bad copy paste job on the sculpts.

They do look nice but if for some reason you were running the whole unit they might stand out.

That's been standard for boxes for a couple of years now.
I suppose the fact you haven't actually noticed with any of the others answers your question.

Rocks on everything. Good grief.

I'd like to see reversed poses between the HMG and shotgun.

Let's get back to good 'ole complaints about rocks on bases, rage fist and tactical detritus I say.

(or some pics of new minis at least!)

 The Infinite wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
So do the knights only have 2 bodies with different arms and head poses. Or is it just a bad copy paste job on the sculpts.

They do look nice but if for some reason you were running the whole unit they might stand out.

That's been standard for boxes for a couple of years now.
I suppose the fact you haven't actually noticed with any of the others answers your question.

It's been the standard since the creation of 4 model boxes. Even the Myrmidon box, IIRC the first 4 model 'fireteam' box, was 2 sets of 2 bodies.

They play around with them sometimes. Usually 4 different heads if they don't have helmets, occasionally they do something interesting like the Ghazi box having the same body twice, but but there's 1 leg different as well.

But yeah 4 model boxes have been 2 sets of 2 bodies since their creation. The only one that wasn't was the old Muyib box, but that was because they combined a 2 model blister, half of another 2 model blister, and a solo model to cut down on SKUs rather than design it as a 4 model box.

Even the new 3 model + token boxes have a repeat body. The Jannisary box has the male body repeated, Riot Grrls has the one not standing on a rock repeated.

 ImAGeek wrote:

"Sir, we're getting reports that no one likes the tactical rocks, but support for technological debris that can fit on any base is more than exceptible."
"I see.... what's our most sought after re sculpt? Put them *all" on tactical rocks."
"But sir!"
*arches fingers* "And angle some of their feet so it's not easy to replace them with something."


(Meanwhile, across town...)

Knight Models: "Hold my sangria...."

I'd believe that dialogue happened.

Those are gorgeous but the rocks are just wrong...

So basically they're saying that Hospitaliers are only ever deployed in the wilderness and/or compounds with rock gardens.

I think the idea behind it is their main fortress is in Svalarheima were everything is snowy and the rocks will make painters create the snow covered battlefield easier.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think the idea behind it is their main fortress is in Svalarheima were everything is snowy and the rocks will make painters create the snow covered battlefield easier.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure that's what it is...
Has nothing to do with them trying to make each pose "look different". No siree. It's theme!

So where was that for USARF?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think the idea behind it is their main fortress is in Svalarheima were everything is snowy and the rocks will make painters create the snow covered battlefield easier.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure that's what it is...
Has nothing to do with them trying to make each pose "look different". No siree. It's theme!

So where was that for USARF?

I mean, they aren’t mutually exclusive. They could’ve wanted to make the poses look different, and then decided on Svalarheima bases to do so.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Spoiler:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think the idea behind it is their main fortress is in Svalarheima were everything is snowy and the rocks will make painters create the snow covered battlefield easier.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure that's what it is...
Has nothing to do with them trying to make each pose "look different". No siree. It's theme!

So where was that for USARF?

I mean, they aren’t mutually exclusive. They could’ve wanted to make the poses look different, and then decided on Svalarheima bases to do so.

Exactly

Is there anything more generic than a bunch of rocks? Please.

I like the variance you get from rubble on the base, but I wish they'd rely more on debris than rocks. You can fit debris onto almost any basing scheme.

 LunarSol wrote:
I like the variance you get from rubble on the base, but I wish they'd rely more on debris than rocks. You can fit debris onto almost any basing scheme.

The problem is it shouldn't be a "one or the other" scheme. The debris they choose to do is usually very specific like a Gecko arm or a helmet from a Hac Tao etc.

They don't ever really do "generic" debris.

There's a bit here and there. The Beyond Icestorm box contains an ammo crate with the faction logo on it and a random metal tube as bits to stand on. Massacre stands on a bomb that's fairly generic all things considering. I've liked each of those and generally wish it was more common.

They changed it:

 JBSchroeds wrote:
They changed it:

Good. Now back to complaining about miniatures. Just noticed with that fig, is that a third leg behind him. Think there is something going on behind him. Maybe stabbing a body?

 silent25 wrote:

 JBSchroeds wrote:
They changed it:

Spoiler:

Good. Now back to complaining about miniatures. Just noticed with that fig, is that a third leg behind him. Think there is something going on behind him. Maybe stabbing a body?

Nah, somebody on their media team forgot to hide a layer when exporting the image. It's just the Laxmee mini.

yeah, can't believe I didn't notice the second person behind him. What's the deal with that?

edit: oh

The ladies love his third leg.

 Kanluwen wrote:


They don't ever really do "generic" debris.

Nisse Sniper and his generic box, Deva with her generic barrel, Spetznaz HMG with his ammo crate, to name the first three to immediately spring to mind. They've had a lot of feedback from people who don't want rocks and, to me knowledge, none from people saying they want more rocks.

What really gets me with these ones is it’s not just a foot up on one rock. That’s not terrible and easy to change if you want. Rather it’s a narrow strip of rock that they’re like surfing on. If you don’t take the time to base around or remove it, it’s gonna look dumb. And removing it won’t be as easy since their feet are flat, but slanted instead.

Szaaalaaaaaaaaaaaamandra!

It is nice, but they kind of just genericized it up.

Certainly looks...Nomady though, I guess.

But it has lost a lot of the charm and appeal that the old Szalamandra sculpt had for me.

Oh my poor ticker, what an amazingly gorgeous model! Corvus Belli makes some of the finest models on the market.
Absolute stunner!

 Alpharius wrote:
It is nice, but they kind of just genericized it up.

Certainly looks...Nomady though, I guess.

But it has lost a lot of the charm and appeal that the old Szalamandra sculpt had for me.

I think the old Szalamandra was just very...bleh. The only thing I'm really not digging with this is the lack of a Pilot figure. Not cool CB. Not cool.

Anyways here's some new painted pics:

 JBSchroeds wrote:
They changed it:

Have they given an official statement about it? Without sparking a debate as its how I personally feel, this was a big enough issue for me to walk away from Infinity. So if they have publicly admited their mistake, I'd be willing to accept that and rejoin their game. But I admit changing it has impressed me.

I'm so in love. This pretty handily bumps me from focusing on Corregidor into the Vanilla camp. I've got some painting to do to be ready.

Nice. Now CB, put that gun on the Dragões. ¡Con prisa!

What are the rumors about resculpting the pilot. 'Cuz pilot needs resculpting.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Nice. Now CB, put that gun on the Dragões. ¡Con prisa!

What are the rumors about resculpting the pilot. 'Cuz pilot needs resculpting.

So far haven't seen rumors about resculpting the pilot.

Honestly, it's just another example of "We're gonna milk you for all you're worth!" I feel.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Nice. Now CB, put that gun on the Dragões. ¡Con prisa!

Wouldn't that be nice.

I absolutely adore the sculpt, but I am a bit disappointed there’s no new pilot with it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It is nice, but they kind of just genericized it up.

Certainly looks...Nomady though, I guess.

But it has lost a lot of the charm and appeal that the old Szalamandra sculpt had for me.

I think the old Szalamandra was just very...bleh. The only thing I'm really not digging with this is the lack of a Pilot figure. Not cool CB. Not cool.

Anyways here's some new painted pics:

Roll over quote!

Those are nice pics, and it is growing on me but it still feels a bit too generic Nomad.

 Alpharius wrote:

Roll over quote!

Those are nice pics, and it is growing on me but it still feels a bit too generic Nomad.

It's only recently that there even has been a "generic" Nomad feel for things to have!

I think the old Szalamandra was a relic of a different time for design. This new design, for me, feels more appropriate for Infinity.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's only recently that there even has been a "generic" Nomad feel for things to have!

I think the old Szalamandra was a relic of a different time for design. This new design, for me, feels more appropriate for Infinity.

Yes, that pretty much...both statements. I've retired some early TAGs to be used with other (role-playing) games. The only thing that would be nice is a new pilot inspired by the original art, but sculpted to todays standards.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Roll over quote!

Those are nice pics, and it is growing on me but it still feels a bit too generic Nomad.

It's only recently that there even has been a "generic" Nomad feel for things to have!

I think the old Szalamandra was a relic of a different time for design. This new design, for me, feels more appropriate for Infinity.

You're...not wrong Kan!

Just ignore me - apparently I'm harmless provided you stay off my lawn!

 Kanluwen wrote:

So this is what happens when an Alienware laptop gets angry.

Undoubtedly a pertty model, but I feel they've managed to both generalise its look, and somehow make it look like it belongs in CA.

.Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Spoiler:

So this is what happens when an Alienware laptop gets angry.

Undoubtedly a pertty model, but I feel they've managed to both generalise its look, and somehow make it look like it belongs in CA.

The CA one I think kinda falls afoul of color palette decisions.
It's funny though because they've actually tried to move CA stuff away from the "black and red=bad guys" look. Look at the Avatar, for an example:

There's red and there's black but the tones are kinda different.
Szalamandra has a more cold tone to its red and black, with very little in the way of highlights. They look like LEDs and the body of a stealth fighter merged together.
The Avatar's body on the other hand has some highlights for the black-grey and the red is closer to the coloration of the Tohaa symbionts(an orangey "goop").

That's my opinion on the matter though.

Alpharius wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Roll over quote!

Those are nice pics, and it is growing on me but it still feels a bit too generic Nomad.

It's only recently that there even has been a "generic" Nomad feel for things to have!

I think the old Szalamandra was a relic of a different time for design. This new design, for me, feels more appropriate for Infinity.

You're...not wrong Kan!

Just ignore me - apparently I'm harmless provided you stay off my lawn!

You feel the way you feel Alph.

Quite a few people disagree though!
Might have to preorder the Szalamandra to ensure I get one as the restock on the Blackjack is going into over a month now.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 JBSchroeds wrote:
They changed it:

Spoiler:

Have they given an official statement about it? Without sparking a debate as its how I personally feel, this was a big enough issue for me to walk away from Infinity. So if they have publicly admited their mistake, I'd be willing to accept that and rejoin their game. But I admit changing it has impressed me.

I don't think I've seen one. I had e-mailed them a complaint when it first came up and the eventual reply was a pretty standard "oops, we didn't mean to offend and have changed it". I'm not sure how many people contacted them about the issue, but they did listen and it was a fairly quick response. I'm willing to let it go in this case because it sounds like they didn't realize the Colombian usage had such a difference from Spain's.

One of my favorite current bits about Nomads is the distinctive color palettes between the 3 ships. Tunguska essentially being given the N7 scheme does not sadden me one bit. Replacing the orange with red works out better as far as I'm concerned.

 Alpharius wrote:

Just ignore me - apparently I'm harmless provided you stay off my lawn!

Unless he is there to rake the leaves. If so, he may remain on the lawn.

Painted, Sally looks less CA than it did in the renders. However, it, and the CA minis and some Tohaa are starting to blur together. Too much black and red/orange and not enough other colors. Quite frankly, black is a terrible color choice for most minis. This is Indisputable Fact™. (Darker colors make things look smaller, for starters. Then move on to more advanced subjects.)

There will probably be a pilot resculpt soon enough, I should think.

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Just ignore me - apparently I'm harmless provided you stay off my lawn!

Unless he is there to rake the leaves. If so, he may remain on the lawn.

Painted, Sally looks less CA than it did in the renders. However, it, and the CA minis and some Tohaa are starting to blur together. Too much black and red/orange and not enough other colors. Quite frankly, black is a terrible color choice for most minis. This is Indisputable Fact™. (Darker colors make things look smaller, for starters. Then move on to more advanced subjects.)

I think I agree with you?

Maybe that's where many of my recent 'issues' with some of these sculpts is coming from?

Maybe that's why things are looking very same-y to me?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Just ignore me - apparently I'm harmless provided you stay off my lawn!

Unless he is there to rake the leaves. If so, he may remain on the lawn.

Painted, Sally looks less CA than it did in the renders. However, it, and the CA minis and some Tohaa are starting to blur together. Too much black and red/orange and not enough other colors. Quite frankly, black is a terrible color choice for most minis. This is Indisputable Fact™. (Darker colors make things look smaller, for starters. Then move on to more advanced subjects.)

I think I agree with you?

Maybe that's where many of my recent 'issues' with some of these sculpts is coming from?

Maybe that's why things are looking very same-y to me?

I mean, when you're old and don't have your glasses on I think everything looks kinda blurry too...

*ducks and covers*
Honestly, I think it's about damn time that Nomads got a unified design aesthetic. It might look a little bit too close to CA and Tohaa...but maybe that's intentional, hinting at alien tech being used in places as well as Human Sphere tech?

Or maybe it's just because of CAD sculpts.

Too much right in that post there for comfort Kan!!!

Presbyopia is a thing. I've got it. It's not so much blurry as it is an inability to fully dilate one's pupils, and thus it becomes harder to see darker details. My painting area is as brightly lit as a surgery theater.

I don't mind similarity when it is in faction, but I do like the overall aesthetic of each faction to be distinct. That includes color choices for the official /default paint schemes.

It could be a hint, as Kan noted, that the Nomads are up to their usual "non-conformist" shenanigans. Never trust hippies, not even Space Hippies.

 Red Harvest wrote:

It could be a hint, as Kan noted, that the Nomads are up to their usual "non-conformist" shenanigans. Never trust hippies, not even Space Hippies.

I think this was directly asked at Interplanetario and denied. Just an artist that really likes black with red accents and nothing story related.

Realistically, I assume its just a sort of inevitable coincidence. This model is part of the new Tunguska releases. Nomad colors are Red/White/Black. Corregedor is the primary Red, Bakkunin is primary White, so Tunguska was always going to be primarily Black with Red and White as accent colors, with the heavy red making a bolder impression..

Painted, Sally looks less CA than it did in the renders. However, it, and the CA minis and some Tohaa are starting to blur together. Too much black and red/orange and not enough other colors. Quite frankly, black is a terrible color choice for most minis. This is Indisputable Fact™. (Darker colors make things look smaller, for starters. Then move on to more advanced subjects.)

It's not just the paint job. Both this and the Kriza Borac look like they could be Morat models. if you had told me that this was a new Raicho I wouldn't have doubted you.

Wait I’m confused now. Is the Sal a Nomad or a CA TAG? It looks CA to me with the tail.

 AduroT wrote:
Wait I’m confused now. Is the Sal a Nomad or a CA TAG? It looks CA to me with the tail.

Nomad, and Nomad TAGs had tails before CA TAGs did.

Nomad TAGs had tails before CA.

Now I have to wait for December/ January to have a nice Kaiju combat game between Szalamandra and Avatar.

On the other hand, CA models had tails long before the Nomad TAGs. The nomad tails are very similar to the Skiaveros tail.

Its just the Iguana that has a tail, correct? Granted, the Iguana was the TAG that I bought into Nomads for, so I approve the change in direction.

 LunarSol wrote:
Its just the Iguana that has a tail, correct? Granted, the Iguana was the TAG that I bought into Nomads for, so I approve the change in direction.

Iguana does, the Szalamandra will, and I believe the Lizard did.

That new Szalamandra is beautiful!
So much in fact that im thinking about starting Infinity just so I can play that figure.

Question: If i was going to start infinity and nomads, what sub-army should I play to get the best use out of the Szalamandra?
Bakunin, Corregidor, ect?

 AveImperator wrote:
That new Szalamandra is beautiful!
So much in fact that im thinking about starting Infinity just so I can play that figure.

Question: If i was going to start infinity and nomads, what sub-army should I play to get the best use out of the Szalamandra?
Bakunin, Corregidor, ect?

It's currently ONLY available in Vanilla lists. Corregidor fields the Iguana and Bakunin has the Lizard. It's part of the new release wave for the upcoming Tunguska sectoral though so you'll want to wait for that if you want to play as a sub army.

 AveImperator wrote:
That new Szalamandra is beautiful!
So much in fact that im thinking about starting Infinity just so I can play that figure.

Question: If i was going to start infinity and nomads, what sub-army should I play to get the best use out of the Szalamandra?
Bakunin, Corregidor, ect?

Tunguska, an as yet unreleased Sectorial, is where the Szalamandra will be showing up.
Tunguska, Bakunin, and Corregidor are the three main ships of the Nomad Nation.
Corregidor is the muscle, Bakunin is the heart, and Tunguska is the money/tech.
They're kinda/sorta confirmed to be getting an army box next year at some point. If you want to get a feel for how Tunguska will play now?

Spektrs(there are two models for them--1 in the Nomad Starter and 1 in a blister)
Grenzer(One model in the Nomad starter)
Kriza Borac(Beyond Icestorm set)
Interventors(two model boxed set with deployable things called "Fast Pandas")

That list of items plus this actual army list would set you up:
Nomads
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

7
KRIZA BORAC Lieutenant (360º Visor) Mk12, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 64)
SZALAMANDRA Hyper-rapid Magnetic Cannon, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 90)
SZALAMANDRA PILOT Contender / Pistol, Knife. ()
SPEKTR Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36)
SPEKTR Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
GRENZER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
INTERVENTOR Hacker (Killer Device Plus UPGRADE: Lightning) Boarding Shotgun, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
INTERVENTOR Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Combi Rifle, 1 FastPanda / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

4.5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Bear in mind that it looks like Tunguska will be a VERY "elite" army to play with from the start. There's more surprises in store but this is a good sampler as to how a lot of us think they will play.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:

It could be a hint, as Kan noted, that the Nomads are up to their usual "non-conformist" shenanigans. Never trust hippies, not even Space Hippies.

I think this was directly asked at Interplanetario and denied. Just an artist that really likes black with red accents and nothing story related.

Of course CB would say that. Their denial actually confirms that it is true. Nomads, well Tunguska anyway, have made a deal with the EI. This is the treason mentioned in ITS9. Interplanetario is a Con, and you cannot spell CONspiracy without... well, you see it now.

Assuming its true, that which CB said, it's time for the art director to have a "conversation" with an artist.

Nexus Operative:



http://mayacast.com/2017/11/18/mayacast-exclusive-preview-nexus-operative/

Superb!

I like the more muted reds and more lead-like metals. It differentiates it more from the black-and-red Tunguska Nomads who only wish they were CA (and thus smuggle in Shasvasti prostitutes). Can't wait for an Angel Giraldez color breakdown.

AveImperator wrote:That new Szalamandra is beautiful!
So much in fact that im thinking about starting Infinity just so I can play that figure.

Question: If i was going to start infinity and nomads, what sub-army should I play to get the best use out of the Szalamandra?
Bakunin, Corregidor, ect?

You don't need to play a sectoral. You can just go Vanilla Nomads.

With Infinity it's less about what you play than how you play it.

DISCLAIMER: it is possible to make a stupid list though and some things work well with other things.

BUT! If you want to use that TAG you should totally buy it, use it, build a list around it and learn how to play that list.

Unsure if it's an error, but it seems that TheWarstore already has their Infinity Black Friday sales up a few days in advance. Seems that select items are 50% off.
http://www.thewarstore.com/VIKInfinityBasement.html

CB's latest Sniper Shot:

New Morlock(s) incoming!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Nexus Operative:

That blonde man bun though... these aliens are clearly so 175 years ago!

December Releases

Kanren Hacker











Nexus









Szalamandra Squad











Druze Shock Teams









Neema Satar











Lasiq Re-Pack


SAS Re-Pack

Heavy shading on Druzes guns. Is that marksman's rifle that one of them is carrying?

Wish there'd be a proper mercenary sectorial.

 Knight wrote:
Heavy shading on Druzes guns. Is that marksman's rifle that one of them is carrying?

Wish there'd be a proper mercenary sectorial.

I suspect the Druze list in the Outrage Mission Packet was a trial balloon. The list looked promising and hope it becomes official.

The stock on that rifle that the Kanren is carrying is way too long. Her arm would need to be almost straight to reach the trigger if she were to tuck it into her shoulder.

It’s a nice enough mini otherwise, but that’s really distracting.

The Nexus and Szalamandra are dead sexy though

Do we think the new Druze are to scale with the old Druze? What are we missing for a Merc Sectoral?

Chairman Aeon wrote:
Do we think the new Druze are to scale with the old Druze? What are we missing for a Merc Sectoral?

As to scale as other new figures are to their old equivalents. Straight up standard LI profiles have stayed consistent. It's with HI profiles where you have seen some massive changes in scale.

Chairman Aeon wrote:
Do we think the new Druze are to scale with the old Druze? What are we missing for a Merc Sectoral?

Rules?

 silent25 wrote:


As to scale as other new figures are to their old equivalents. Straight up standard LI profiles have stayed consistent. It's with HI profiles where you have seen some massive changes in scale.

I'll have to disagree with you there, the size of the Ariadna Scout increased significantly compared to how it was previously. Their sizing is all over the shop unfortunately.

 Knight wrote:
Heavy shading on Druzes guns. Is that marksman's rifle that one of them is carrying?

Wish there'd be a proper mercenary sectorial.

It is coming. Soon™. I think most of the pieces are in place at this point. There are plenty of Merc units to make a sectorial. The White Star sectorial, IIRC. All we need is the unit list for it, and the sectorial AVAs.

and
DRUZE! Nice. Very nice. But I wish that the LE Druze hacker had been somewhere in that photo so I could see how well they look together.

Neema. Words fail. CB really hates Tohaa players.

I want to like the Kanren. CB did not give it the 'girly' sized gun. Yay. However, it is still Meh.

Nexus Op is a continuation of the good quality work the CA forces are getting.

Sally wins the month. I hate saying it, but the Druze are second, and a distant second at that. Also, Sally makes me angry. I look at that mini, then at the Tik and the Dragões... >:|
Nice preview of the Tunguska sectorial in this photo.

Neema’s Great! Much better than the old one.

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Knight wrote:
Heavy shading on Druzes guns. Is that marksman's rifle that one of them is carrying?

Wish there'd be a proper mercenary sectorial.

It is coming. Soon™. I think most of the pieces are in place at this point. There are plenty of Merc units to make a sectorial. The White Star sectorial, IIRC. All we need is the unit list for it, and the sectorial AVAs.

White Star was Druze, Scarface, McMurrough, Massacre, and a few select character mercs.

There aren't actually that many Mercenary units. You have Kaplan, Druze, and Caterans basically being the Human Sphere units.

and
DRUZE! Nice. Very nice. But I wish that the LE Druze hacker had been somewhere in that photo so I could see how well they look together.

Not very. Whenever they don't show off a LE model or "all" of the models with a later release, it tends to be because it doesn't look good.

Neema. Words fail. CB really hates Tohaa players.

Neema looks way better than before. Should have her mask down but still.

I want to like the Kanren. CB did not give it the 'girly' sized gun. Yay. However, it is still Meh.

Nexus Op is a continuation of the good quality work the CA forces are getting.

Sally wins the month. I hate saying it, but the Druze are second, and a distant second at that. Also, Sally makes me angry. I look at that mini, then at the Tik and the Dragões... >:|
Nice preview of the Tunguska sectorial in this photo.

Tikbalang is fine aside from being packaged with Uhlan and being higher AVA than 1. At least IMO.

I really like the new Neema.

 Red Harvest wrote:
CB really hates Tohaa players.

Not just CB, let's be fair.

I can take them or leave them, TBH. The minis are not 'alien' enough for me to view them as alien, if that makes any sense. However, it is deliberate. CB'ers think that non anthropomorphic aliens do not sell as well. :S

Kan, that's not really saying much about the new Neema mini.

I do not think the Merc Sectorial will be unit heavy. I think there will be some Tohaa-esque rule about individual mercs forming fireteams.

By my count, Mercs currently have:
-2 TAGs
-12 individuals/characters
-11 units

The only unit types missing are HI and REM. Add these two and you have plenty for a sectorial.

The Tikbalang is guilty of the greatest sin of all. It is boring to look at.

 Mastiff wrote:
The stock on that rifle that the Kanren is carrying is way too long. Her arm would need to be almost straight to reach the trigger if she were to tuck it into her shoulder.

It’s a nice enough mini otherwise, but that’s really distracting.

The Nexus and Szalamandra are dead sexy though

I think it’s just that sponge she’s got between the butt and her shoulder to pad against kickback that makes the stock appear so long. Once she squishes that down it wouldn’t be so bad.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I can take them or leave them, TBH. The minis are not 'alien' enough for me to view them as alien, if that makes any sense. However, it is deliberate. CB'ers think that non anthropomorphic aliens do not sell as well. :S

Unsurprisingly (or surprisingly) "starfish aliens" do not sell well.